Like bush, putin is a white collar criminal and much more. putin and his supposed 'democracy' was about taking public assets private and thereby circling himself with his billionaire friends. Those who crossed him got to eat polonium.

Peter Jacobs says it as it is. There is no democracy in either Russia or USA. In Russia the right wing has stolen the old soviet industry and land that belonged to the people. Russians were not free to speak, but had enough to live under the Soviets. Now they live under a Shark Capitalist system. People are now starving to death. In USA the right wing has stolen elections (2000 and 2004). Peolple are free to speak, but barely have enough to survive. A little less every year. The USA also lives under a Shark Capitalist system, but that since LONG! Corporations buy politicians to allow them to steal its 99% blind. Democracy "We the People" never really existed.

It's been a long while since I knew the difference between capitalism, socialism and communism so I looked up the answer...........Interesting reading this again

"Communists believe that as soon as the working class and its allies are in a position to do so they must make a basic change in the character of the state; they must replace capitalist dictatorship over the working class with workers’ dictatorship over the capitalist class........."

Hmmmm, no wonder that 1% buys so many of our "representatives" votes to keep themselves in their position of dictating what tax codes they want to prevent the workers from taking over their mansions etc.

It is amazing that after 20 years of “democracy” a significant number of Russians are reaching out to communists to “save the nation”. They no longer see Putin as their savior. But let’s face it, after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia without its satellite republics and Eastern European nations, was always going to find life difficult.

I am however more concerned about our democracy being under attack and showing signs of despair. We have never been so polarized and divided and if we are not careful we will lose our prosperity and the advantage we’ve work so hard for during the 20^th century.

The world is not kind to losers. History is full of examples of the ruins of failed civilizations from which to learn from, so we don’t finish up the same.

wtw,
I hope we don't have to take into account the quality of the discussion on here. If so, @#$% it, we're doomed already. The sad fact is, it's may require some external event to cause us to come together again, with as bad as things are now. It seems with a lot of great civilizations, relative peace can be a truly dangerous thing. Idle hands, and all that..

Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganovm, whose party was on target to increase its representation from 57 to 92 in the Duma....

According to Republican logic, it is much safer for American businesses to invest billions of dollars in far away places like China and Russia (that can revert back to Communism at any time; nationalizing everything in the process) than to pay a little more in taxes, here, at home.

Talking 'bout Penny wise and Pound foolish!!!!!

The purist form of capitalism demands a failed class that is a direct result of relentless win/lose competition at every level... eventually a few bubble to the top, most land somewhere in the middle, and many land on the bottom (failed). The very existence and largess of that failed class can carry forward to a failed government for many historically known reasons. But with our current situation, where the middle "feels" failed with less true opportunity and gets by on a day-by-day basis, history says a failed government is even more likely.

The problem is that when most of the people are poor or close to poor and the rules are manipulated to favor the greedy and the ruthless, true ethics break down and some form of anarchy takes over... eventually leading to a failed government.

So, although we are not yet to the point of a failed government, we, and many others around the globe, are headed that way due to the collapse of our economic systems. We all need to take care of the poor (the very measure of a failed versus successful government)... those that do not will collapse. When the rich get too rich and too "disconnected", it becomes a perfect storm... governments fail and old social crutches come out... religious, conservative based on one side... socialist flavored collectivism on the other... or, for the short term, absolute military power takes over the whole thing.

So our political divide is well explained and understood (if you buy the above), but history never had a government like ours to help us predict our outcome or to tell us where we should go from here. All we do know is that this isn't working and that something has to change. We also know that driving a solution that drives a larger divide between the rich and poor and that just doesn't fundamentally take care of the poor will likely fail as well... it's that damn middle class we don't know what to do with.

Us "middle-classers" are just a bunch of trouble makers, aren't we?

Just my opinion...

LMarcT: Won't have to worry too much about the middle class...it is shrinking away. Wait til the next round of foreclosures is done, which will drive rental home prices even higher as people work on smaller and smaller wages (to fund the excesses of the rich)......most of us are one major health care issue away from dropping out of the middle class, much to the delight of the wealthy.

One added thought...

The only safeguard against absolute ruthless capitalism that drives the wealth of a few and limits the opportunities for most, is some form of regulation.

Too much regulation stifles growth and opportunity, but reasonable and evenly enforced regulation drives ethics and safeguards that actually allow more to succeed and drive a stronger economy. So: We need reasonable but well enforced regulations.

The only way for our society to survive is to levy taxes to fund our infrastructure, our common systems, and support systems.

How you collect taxes can (and has) either drive a larger wedge between the classes or, on the extreme, drive us all to be the same... obviously the best system is one that allows success without driving a great divide. So, we need a progressive but fair tax levy system.

And my last point... "starving the beast" may be the single most destructive concept in the history of our country. "Starving the beast" is a well known business tactic used when a company finds itself in dire straights and cannot survive one more day. The results are always devastating... budgets get slashed indiscriminately without regard to priority, need, or function... and the company inevitably free-falls to either total failure or to a long period of total dysfunction.

"Starve the beast" drives nothing but dysfunction and MORE costs... in other words, an expensive and dysfunctional system... in other words: what we have now. So, yes, decide what you are going to do, but once you have, design and fund it correctly. "Starve the beast" is a lazy and self-destructive "last-resort" tactic that should NEVER be used in government.

Okay, I'm done... for now.

Putin is a very charismatic leader as is Obama, but charisma will only take you so far. The average citizen soon looks beyond the personality for the advancement of society, also known as "change we can believe in".

This means that Democracy has taken hold in Russia over "American-style" marketing of authoritarianism. The worst possible outcome would have been for Putin to win with a tiny margin and that is exactly what happened. The tiny margin means that there will be accountability and the members of United Russia will jump ship at the slightest legislative provocationb (or blame) and that the opposition can stop any initiative with coalition voting.

The gains of the Communists are the voters telling Putin, "Even the Communists can do better.", more than a vote for the Communist Party.

Kornfed, That is the kind of response we would expect from a fear mongering conservative. His post made perfect sense and was not even stereotypically liberal, it contained logic and practicality. Of course I wouldn't expect a coward of a conservative to stand for any of that sort of thing(yes all conservatives are cowards at their core because they are terrified of change) ya know, logic and practicallity is not in the bible so it must not be right. I am soooo tired of the idealism of both sides. The world is never going to go completely your way, some of the issues will always go to the other side but, now it seems as though everybody has this all or nothing attitude. My way or the highway. The honest truth is I don't agree with a WHOLE LOT of what the democratic party seems to stand for nowadays. I don't believe in gun control and I don't like the fact that they take up for illegal aliens and YES they are just as big of thieves(well almost maybe) as the republicans but at least they ACT like they are throwing the common man a bone. The republicans basically flat out say that if you are poor you are just getting what is coming to you for not being good enough for whatever reason. We can all agree that the government is broken. I just don't understand how such a large percentage of middle class and even poor people can be fooled into thinking that dismantling the government and giving control to the rich is better than just fixing the government by voting out all of the current leadership on both side of the isle and voting in some people with some common sense, some practiality, and most importantly a actual interest in doing what is best for the MAJORITY of Americans instead of what is going to set them up to make the most money. Stop hiding from the future and join the rest of us in it.

Kornfed,

Do you have a problem with what I said, or not? I took what I thought was a firm but non-partisan approach on some subjects that have been horribly distorted... at least in my mind. And just because you didn't see anything offensive or startling or Foxnewsish about it, you call it farting?... Exactly what do you call your post?... diarrhea?

Okay, you want a conclusion? You have to be told because.... why... you maybe can't think for yourself?

If you have no problem with my statements, then you would be on the side of making our long-standing system work better and NOT on the side of turning harder right with further trends of less overall regulation, more tax cuts, a flat non-progressive tax system, and the elimination of both temporary and long standing support policies for our unemployed, poor, and elderly.

In other words, if you have no problems with my statements, then your normal rancor is garbage. And your "yea, so what?" response tells me which way it is.

Opposition parties say the election was unfair from the start because of authorities' support for United Russia with cash, influence and television air time.

Hey, where have I heard that before.....?

I bet the Russian people are tired of being ruled by the polished arm of the Russian Mob.

I have had a recent encounter with you Lmarc...so I know your stance.

If you have no problem with my statements, then you would be on the side of making our long-standing system work better and NOT on the side of turning harder right with further trends of less overall regulation, more tax cuts, a flat non-progressive tax system, and the elimination of both temporary and long standing support policies for our unemployed, poor, and elderly.

You feel that we are being under taxed, under regulated, and are unfair to the poor. I just wanted you to state your definitions of what you considered a progressive tax system (tax the rich) ...and what you thought was a happy medium of regulation haha.

In other words, if you have no problems with my statements, then your normal rancor is garbage. And your "yea, so what?" response tells me which way it is.

Now that you have defined those statements, I can tell you that I agree with none of them.

"You feel that we are being under taxed, under regulated, and are unfair to the poor."

That's not just one mans opinion. These are facts that are as plain as day to anyone with a set of eyes and a brain in their head. Are you very wealthy, a religious fanatic, or just very unintelligent because those are the only possible reasons I can see for your point of view.

This is wonderful!

All you Liberals, Progressives and Occupiers who feel so disenfranchised here can go to Russia now and bask in the glory of social and economic justice for the collective in Russia. They will teach you exactly what "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs wants", really means.

Just make sure you take Obama, his administration, friends and the unions with you.

livinginthewoods...

These are facts that are as plain as day to anyone with a set of eyes and a brain in their head.

I fear that you do not understand the definitions of fact and opinion, and how they differ. I think either ideology will agree with me on that.

Well, wouldn't it be my luck that the very first correct statement you have posted caught me in a mistake. I will admit that but, I would still like an answer to my question.

Kornfed............I fear it is too late for you to be using correct and polite English. We all know you're just farting out of every orfice.

I am very unpopular because I do not defend a party. I am used to it sicko...fire away

It sounds like all of the above to me.

He doesn't like his own medicine. Lmarct was very courteous and he was quick to leap but when someone is as aggressive as he is he will stab at a weak spot and run like hell.

1.Wealthy?

2.Religious?

3.Stupid?

Please feel free to choose all that apply. Conservatism is a necessary evil to keep progress in check but, the crap that the TP/republicans are spouting is not conservatism. To fall for it you must be one or more of the above.

Russians are reaching out to communists is a sign that most people don't want to work for anything.They want the government to give it to them like the old days. Keep Obama in office you too can have the same thing here, you will not own anything, you will be given little or nothing to live on, so keep helping Obama and you will be no better off than people in Russia who are reaching out to communists because it's hard to get the things you want due to you have to work for them.

Kornfed, you may not defend a party but, you sure only seem to attack one of the two parties and you make your side of the issues obvious. Please no not try to act nonpartisan, Lmarct is the only one here who has actually done that.

JH, if you think obama is a communist then read my post 2.12. Any thoughts?

"The problem is that when most of the people are poor or close to poor and the rules are manipulated to favor the greedy and the ruthless, true ethics break down and some form of anarchy takes over... eventually leading to a failed government."

........This breakdown in what was once a thriving and successful society was exemplifed quite well in the excellent HBO series, "Rome". If you missed it, see if you can find it on DVD and watch it. Rome had reached a point where the Roman Senate and their wealthy friends (often one in the same thing) corrupted laws and regulations which transferred Middle Class wealth upward (Senatus Populusque Romanus simply became Senatus Romanus), sending many of the middle to the lower parts of society, where corruption and lawlessness also took hold. Julius Caesar saw this while in Gaul, and decided when he came back that he would stop and reverse this process of Middle Class destruction. He was killed not not so much because of politics, but because of money. Anyone surprised? People in this country need to wake up,

By the way, things must really be tough in Russia, Putin and Medvedev can't even afford neckties.

FreedomRings....perhaps you right wingers might want to go to Texas (if you aren't already there) and worship in the effervescent glow of Perry (who had trouble passing college courses) and the Koch brothers whose ethical standards derive from Satan with their total lack of compassion, their lies and their doing business with a country (Iran) that is the enemy of the United States. You know, the "I'm right and you're wrong and I'll do absolutely anything necessary to win" group of thieves and thugs.

Kornfed,

There are a combination of 4 ways to look at this... maybe 5 if I can figure yours out (sorry, couldn't help myself).

The 4 ways are: 1) Where are we now?, 2) Which way are we trending?, then, for 3 and 4, ask the same questions looking at policy versus actual implementation.

I bring up the implementation part because of the brand of government Bush gave us. We may well have had enough or even too many regulations within law and policy, but we underfunded our regulators and auditors and drove lax regulations into practice. Partly in the name of "Starve the Beast", partly to try to offset the unfunded wars and policies, and partly through pure ineptitude, Bush left us with an undeniable mess... a government that barely works, an economy in the dumps, and debt that would choke a horse. Do we need to change that? Yes. Is government FUNDAMENTALLY broken? Maybe not.

Now maybe we need to take our system as it is and turn it on it's nose (Republican stance), or maybe we just need to recover from the BS and make what we've migrated to over the last century or two work better. No, I'm not saying we need to spend more, we need to spend CORRECTLY. We need to change very little and make what was "pre-Bush" come alive and start working again.

You might call my position true "conservatism"... because I am resisting your changes... kind of a hoot, huh?

PS Freedom, I know my post was not indicative of a well reasoned mind but after your post, you deserved it.

LMarcT

I took what I thought was a firm but non-partisan approach on some subjects that have been horribly distorted

No, what you did was take the biggest problems we have with our free-market system, or as you like to call it “ruthless capitalism”, and tried to sugar-coat them with open-endedness.

Your statement,

The only safeguard against absolute ruthless capitalism that drives the wealth of a few and limits the opportunities for most, is some form of regulation.

Please inform me when we had a TRUE free-market system? Meaning, when there was no overbearing government intrusion? The answer is simple. NEVER! Government in its exalted self-aggrandizement has always felt it is their purpose to make the free-market, fair. The only things fair in the free-market is that you have success and you have failure. There is no in-between. Yet this is what most people think a free-market should be.

Ever since we allowed our government to be driven by Progressivism nearly 100 years ago we have had repeated bust and boom cycles due to intrusion by incompetent and easily manipulated legislators and a banking system designed to mediate wealth and its distribution. When we allowed the incestuous relationship between the power of law writing government and a clandestine central bank we lost any possibility of a true free market system ever evolving.

You claim “some form of regulation” is the solution. OK, how much more, or how much less, than we have today do we need? And who will be the arbiters of these regulations? The Code of Federal Regulations in the 2007 edition totaled 145,816 pages, it’s probably well over 150,000 pages today. Where do we start on a stack of regulations over 62.5 feet high (over 6 stories)? The SBA recently reported that regulation costs American business $1.75 TRILLION per year, and costs small businesses, those with fewer than 20 workers $10,585 per employee, or 36% more than paid by large businesses, those with 500 or more.

Please note that 89% of all businesses in the U.S. employ less than 20 employees. Large businesses account for only 0.3% of all businesses. Guess where the majority of the taxes on the "RICH" are going to come from? The constant involvement in the regulation of the “free-market” leads to Gramm-Leach-Bliley, Sarbanes-Oxley and most recently 2,300 pages of financial reform under Dodd-Frank which addresses less than 10% of the financial industries regulations. Not to mention the next two bubbles forming, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and the commercial real estate markets.

So having said all this, the only solution to the free-market, or as you like to call it “ruthless capitalism”, is either more government control which invariably leads to statism or accepting the true free-market and its self regulation. The true free-market would have NEVER allowed a bailout of any industry deemed “Too big to fail”. In essence it would never allow “Too big to fail” to ever come into existence. Had we allowed the toxic banks to fail the correction would invariably have been deeper but much shorter as the healthy institutions would have had the opportunity to absorb the collapsed accounts and began the recovery much faster.

So, we need a progressive but fair tax levy system.

This statement is basically non-sensical. You can’t have a Progressive tax system that is fair. Who decides what is fair? You, me, some “committee”? This topic is a whole different discussion but suffice it to say the only fair tax system is, The Fair Tax. Unfortunately the Progressives will never allow it due to the fact that everyone who is a member of our society will have to bear the burden of belonging to our society in a fair and equal manner. This is a completely different definition from the Liberal/Progressive mindset which is that if you succeed it is your responsibility to provide for those that don’t want to succeed even when they can.

BTW, I’m always amazed that no one addresses the most common cause of our economic and social collapse, education. When we allow the federal government to once again intrude into what should be at best a State driven system we end up with the illiteracy that plagues our country. But I digress.

Deb W

LMarcT: Won't have to worry too much about the middle class...it is shrinking away. Wait til the next round of foreclosures is done, which will drive rental home prices even higher as people work on smaller and smaller wages (to fund the excesses of the rich)......most of us are one major health care issue away from dropping out of the middle class, much to the delight of the wealthy.

Deb, so insightful... I have this rental... the rental from hell. It was a house we had purchased and restored. The housing market died, so I had to rent it out.

My first renters were very qualified, both had decent jobs, 3 young kids. The father lost his job (the company went bankrupt), he eventually filed bankruptcy, and they were starting to recover. The very same week they were coming out of bankruptcy, their son had to have his appendix removed... back into debt to the tune of $40,000. They never recovered... moved out.

My second renters were EXTREMELY qualified, great jobs, 800 credit scores, wanted to rent to own. The economy hit, they both lost their jobs and his uninsured mother got into a roll-over accident, ALL IN THE SAME WEEK! I kept them in my rental for free while I tried to sell it, he found a new job in New Orleans on a boat, and they are busy trying to repay the hundreds of thousand that his mother incurred.

I sold the house... didn't want to rent to another bright and wide-eyed young couple... too depressing.

They were both "just one major health care issue away" from disaster... and it happened to both of them. They weren't "lazy". Nor were they leaches to society. They weren't and still aren't anything like the right makes them out to be.

And BTW, there are many well-to-do that feel as we do, just not from the right.

@Karl - Germany

Peolple are free to speak, but barely have enough to survive

Barely have enough to survive? What? You mean it's not "surviving" unless you have two cars, three TV's, a jetski/snowmobile/ATV and three weeks of vacation a year? I see people in other parts of the world who are LITERALLY just barely surviving. To suggest that people in the US "barely have enough to survive" is friggin asinine! Please take your head out of your @ss.

FreedomRingsLoud

Excellent post (1.39). Your post makes a great deal of sense and has facts beyond what I personally know of... you are well informed. The only "mistake" you made is your assumption of my position. Please read my post 1.37... it hits some points you made while we crossed posts.

You see, I want to take your paragraph that starts with "You claim “some form of regulation”" and roll up our sleeves and start fixing the problem. In all that legislation, there is good and there is bad and I believe that a competent set of people could actually sort that out. Do we throw it ALL out and call a "free-for-all"? No way! Would never happen and would never work.

And you are correct, we've probably never had a COMPLETELY free market... has never happened anywhere on this earth... ever! So one problem you have with your sales pitch is history of success. There is none. All we have is when people ignore the rules and that has always led to trouble. We are rules based. We always have been and always should be.... and THAT is where we part ways.

And as you point out, I believe that you can never answer the question of "fairness" or "how much" when it relates to taxes and regulations. It's an impossible question that we try to answer with political fire and sit here, as a country, caught up in our jockstrap because of it. So the only choice we have is to make what we have work and make incremental changes. No?

LMarcT

And you are correct, we've probably never had a COMPLETELY free market... has never happened anywhere on this earth... ever! So one problem you have with your sales pitch is history of success. There is none. All we have is when people ignore the rules and that has always led to trouble. We are rules based. We always have been and always should be.... and THAT is where we part ways.

Actually we don't part ways. We both, at least seem to, agree that our current system is a failure. I mean if anyone wants to believe that a $15.1 Trillion Dollar National Debt, dwarfed by $115 Trillion Dollars in Unfunded Liabilities, is success, our great Republic must and will fail. Neither I, or you, or anyone I know ever asked our presidents, representatives, or senators to create this massive burden of debt. Yet they did.

We are a rules based society, but there has never been a rule, law or regulation that hasn’t been broken. Yet we continue to delude ourselves that more rules on top of rules will somehow magically fix it. The only rules that have a chance at being successful are the ones that are punished. This is where the TRUE free-market is self governing. As I've been saying for decades, actually since the first Savings & Loan scandal under Reagan and its subsequent rescue, we have hoped that more rules, or more ominously, government intervention, will fix the problems. It won't. It can't. All it does is embolden the rule breakers by rewarding their criminality.

Had we allowed the "Too Big to Fail" banks to collapse the immediate effects would have been more severe, obviously. However, what would have been established is a clear warning that any further fraud and corruption would not be tolerated in the future. The second we bailed out the irresponsible banks, and financial institutions involved, they realized that regardless of their crimes no punishment would occur (Jim Wright and the "Keating Five" received no more than a slap on the wrist for their involvement, just as today we still have no guilty party(s) involved). Of course the "economists" and other "authorities" unleashed their fear-mongering tirades of a second Depression or other Armageddon-like consequence if we didn't intervene. How could they possibly know? It’s never happened before. These are the same "authorities" that laughed at people like Peter Schiff, Nouriel Roubini, Gary Shiller and Robert Prechter who warned of the the 2007-2008 housing/liquidity collapse as early as 2002. Every day we read about multiple economists who "predict" the future based on their crystal balls of "intellect" and they continue to be wrong over and over. Rampant government monetary malfeasance and fiscal malinvestment is what caused the collapse, not the free-market or capitalism.

Yes, we have never had the TRUE free-market, even though there were underpinnings of it prior to 1913 when the government under Wilson truly began its crusade into the economies of the world with the Federal Reserve and its criminal Fractional Reserve Banking system. We have been programmed into thinking that despite massive regulation that has failed, the only solution is more massive regulations. Keynesianism has been an abject failure from its horrific extension of the Great Depression to current day economic engineering attempts. The only way to allow the TRUE free-market is to deregulate the massive bureaucracy that has been created and application of simple, clearly defined principles. There can never be anything in society that is "Too Big to Fail". If it was too big to fail and it actually does fail, it was dysfunctional to begin with. This is the ultimate consequence of the free-market. If there is punishment for fraud, corruption and failure, it will be as strong an indicator as is reward for success.

The free-market will never allow the privatization of success and the nationalization of failure. Only government intervention allows this. So yes, the problem I have with my sales pitch is history of success. The reason being is that we have become indoctrinated with nearly 100 years of failing economic and fiscal policy and as a result we fear allowing TRUE free-market principles. My feeling is, if decades of repeated failures under one system isn't enough to encourage another system being tried, what is?

This is our conundrum.

Freedom. most of your logic is sound but, you still seem to have the typical conservative habit of blaming the biggest victims based on you anger at a very small percentage of people that really would rather sit around on welfare than work. Most folks on government assistance would rather have decent paying jobs and you can play the blame game and cry "personal responsibility" all you want but like it or not we have a huge number of uneducated and hard to employ people here. Keep pushing them further down and your not gonna like the outcome and neither am I.

livinginthewoods

Most folks on government assistance would rather have decent paying jobs and you can play the blame game and cry "personal responsibility" all you want but like it or not we have a huge number of uneducated and hard to employ people here.

I understand.

The simple question is WHY do we have a large number of uneducated and hard to employ?

Because we have had decades of social and economic engineering by a massive incompetent and corrupt bureaucracy. Why is it that before we created the Department of Education we were the preeminent nation in industry, technology and entrepreneurism? Why is it that in 1960, before we introduced the feel-good program called the "War on Poverty", our poverty rate was 14% and today it is 14.3% (actually it's 15.1%, but that's because of our current economic collapse)? In the meantime reports indicate we have spent between $12 Trillion and $19 Trillion Dollars on the War on Poverty. How many more TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS will it take to raise the poor out of their poverty?

Since the creation of the Department of Education we have devolved into a Third-World nation in basic knowledge. Most American’s read at an 8th grade level. We rank in the BOTTOM THIRD of other OECD nations in reading, science and math. This is supposed to "Win The Future" for us? Kids are encouraged to go to college that are illiterate and we expect them to somehow be the economic driving forces of our future industries? This is a delusion and it's criminal. Just read an essay from a high school graduate and realize how many can't use--there, their or they're--properly in a sentence. Ask them to calculate 20% of 220 in their head and they will stare at you for 5 minutes dumbfounded. Ask them who their Senators are and they don't have a clue. Hell, you can probably ask most of the parents these same questions and they will fail this little quiz.

We pride ourselves on our social and economic "safety nets" that have become lifestyles. Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Medicare Part-D have created $115 TRLLION DOLLARS in Unfunded Liabilities. These are simply IOU's that MUST, at some point and time, be repaid. How? How can these be "safety nets" for our society when they are constantly being corrupted and filled with waste, fraud and abuse? Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve. And many want to give more money to create more useless programs? Why?

In 1960 our economy was based on 53% of domestic exportable manufacturing. Today it is 9%. These were jobs that didn't require a great degree of education, or realistically intellect, but you could at least earn a reasonable standard of living. Today those jobs have either left our shores or become technologically eliminated with robotics, decentralization and other streamlining moves by industry. So now we have rampant illiteracy in our society and nowhere to put them to earn a living. The only solution is to unleash the TRUE free-market to allow industry to return to our shores and to improve the education system that our incompetent and corrupt government has created. We need to teach our kids reading writing and arithmetic, not how to put a condom on a cucumber or how to feel better about certain lifestyles.

Combine these things, that have been relegated to the Federal government, and you MUST admit that the solution cannot be more government intrusion, but rather less. We are a Federal Constitutional Republic with Enumerated Powers that mandate the Federal government’s responsibility. The rest of all these problems belong, and MUST be returned, to the State and Local levels. It's much easier for me to go to my Local or State government to voice my opinion and demand improvements than it is to go to Washington and hope I can create change.

Whether you accept it or not, the entity pushing our society down is the massive government that keeps promising you exceptionalism but continues to deliver mediocrity. How many more TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS will it take to fix the problems our government has created?

I refuse to continue to fund a failure.

I hope you do too.

Freedom,

We do part ways on this point. You speak of "the government" as though it has always delivered mediocrity, always delivered a failed economy, and always provided Trillions in debt. It hasn't "always" and it doesn't have to. This gets to my very simple points. If you can trace our current debt straight to irresponsible behavior of the previous executive branch because they did not budget the regulators and auditors, they encouraged lax regulation, they didn't pay attention to the details, they spent money and provided tax breaks without funding... and that these behaviors will continue to cause a $1Trillion burn-rate per year... then the systemic problem is not necessarily government, but, instead, who is running it, and what obligations (laws) they chose to uphold or ignore. The systemic problem we need to fix is the ability to NOT fund or support something that is law.

The problem is the way Bush ran government, not the government itself. We will be digging out of Bush's hole for decades.

I stand by my posts, above, on the devastating affects of the "Starve the Beast" method of running our government.

Well,

Somebody managed to collapse my comment 1:14

Hummmmmm, wonder why !

maybe the Repubs don't like my Icon, who knows<

an eccentric dude, no doubt

He would be an improvement over ours.

What's a photo shoot got to do with politics?

Cut from the same cloth as the former Italian Prime Minister. Only in America do politicians walk around we so much pretense that we all know they're a bunch of liars.

Look at the American economy. Anyone would be an improvement over Obama.

Look at the American economy. Anyone would be an improvement over Obama.

Hmmm, I'm afraid that I'm not convinced that you know what you are talking about, Rocky.

Rocky Road, well since Obama is continuing all of Bush's failed policies that caused debt and deficits in the first place I have to agree. Too bad we do not have a real liberal running in 2012, just fascist (republicans) and fascist lite (Obama).

wtw of KC - Russia without its satellite republics and Eastern European nations, was always going to find life difficult.

Europe, with the end of slavery in the 19th century; and the end of colonialism in the 20th century, is now finding life very difficult also.

Rocky,

Obama is pretty bad, but here are a few who would be worse: Gingrich, Cain, Romney, Palin, Santorum.

Composer, you seem to have the opinion of a bigot.

Why would any conservative hate obama? Why would any liberal defend obama? Obama has been nothing but a republican trojan horse! A republican in democrat clothes. He talked a progressive talk while he was running for office but once he got into office he walked the straight conservative line but, the conservative still hate him even more. My guess is that both sides hate him or love him for the same reason and it's not a very good one either way: because he is black. I don't care what color he is, he sold us out. Where is the universal health care? Cause I'm pretty sure that what we got looks a whole lot like what the republicans where going for a few years back, a law that takes freedom away from people and puts MORE money in the insurance companies pockets. What about letting the states decide for themselves when it comes to medical marijuana? I still see raids in the news every day. While he was running he said the raids would stop under his administration and he made it seem like he was very receptive to the idea of reclassification and decriminalization but, now that he is in office, it's business as usual at the DEA and he has flat out said he is completely against legalazation in spite of the opinions of those that voted him in. What about the troops? I guess they are finally pulling out of iraq but lets just wait and see how long before they are being shipped somewhere else in the eastern hemisphere that has oil or drug opportunities for the money grubbers that are really running the show. Instead of looking at the mans face and listening to his words, look only at his actions and really stop and ask yourself why you like or hate him so damn much. The saddest part is we are doomed to another four years of rightwing policy no matter who wins in 2012.

Livinginthewoods, I couldn't have said it better myself. I am astounded by the abject hatred of President Obama by those on the right based on the very facts you stated so well in your post above. I've asked many of my friends and/or acquaintances to explain how/why they hate Obama when it's abundantly clear that he took the Bush playbook and not only played from it, he expanded and, in come cases, improved it, for lack of a better term. I am referring of course to the more surgical approach to the capture of Bin Laden and the "no boots on the ground" approach to Libya. Said friends/acquaintances never have an answer, at least not an answer that makes any sense. Typically, it's something akin to a counter-question courtesy of Fox News: "Did YOU know that Obama has never even run a lemonade stand?" I too believe that Americans have failed to comprehend how closely Obama has mirrored the prior administration and how far he drifted from his original campaign platform and ideology. Obama is anything but a Liberal. Further, it's gotten to the point where our two party system seems to have melded into one big blob that is so over-bloated, so corrupt, so hysterically blind and so glaringly self-centered, that it can't function. No decent debates, no compromise, no willingness to address the magnitude of the problems with our Capitalistic society, not a shred of concern about the disintegrating middle class and the ever growing lower class. . .I don't know. . .it just seems to me to be so outlandishly ridiculous that it must be intentional and contrived. For me, there can be no other explanation. I agree that it won't matter which candidate is elected in 2012. He will don a different tie, but nothing of substance will change. It's a very, very sad day for America and her citizens when we literally do not have a choice between good and bad but, rather, a choice between worse and worst.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

It is such a shame that Mr. Putin couldn't have followed our George Washington and just went home after two terms. He would have gone down in history in the same way as George Washington. Now he will be looked upon as loving himself. Not his country.

He will get back in power over the old Russia again.This voting BS is just to keep the people from getting pissed off.He only step aside to take some time to do other things, like prepare for the Israel US attack on Iran.

You do realize that Iran has the support of Russia correct? Also under the Russian Constitution Putin could only be president twice back to back before stepping down.

I love it, everyone says he is involved in election fraud and when his party doesnt do has well as expected, they try to say its coming.. Ya he probably would if his party was a flop, but why would someone get involved in election fraud, when they are so popular?

I also love how everyone hates him because he is looking out for Russias interests and future, instead of the one world economy.. Our leaders are supposed to be looking out for us also, instead gutting our economy..

I do believe Putins Party will be doing better, later on and hope so because who wants commies back?

Sam, you are right, our leaders our gutting our economy.

They are also looking out for their personal interests and the best interest of America. "Greed"

I love it, everyone says he is involved in election fraud and when his party doesnt do has well as expected, they try to say its coming..

Given Putin's history with the KGB (Even the CIA has a history of election tampering - imagine if Bush or Obama were former CIA and what people would be saying.) - With that said I will admit, Putin losing 77 seats in parliament was a bit of a surprise.

Bush's daddy was C.I.A....... Rigged the elections of 2000 and 2004....... And made deals with Iran to keep the hostages until after the 1980 elections so Reagan could win the election. Carter had them to be released in October before the elections... Go figure. Republicans will stoop to any level to gain power and ruin America....... They are EVIL.

Frank says things most have forgotten. Carter bartered the deal to release the hostages, even on a portable phone heading to Reagan's inauguration. They wouldn't release them as long as carter was in office.

-Sam

Yes I know this Sam.

What I meant to say is that he will be gearing up to oppose the possible attack on Iran from the US or anyone other then Israel.

That is what I meant to say I just worded it wrong sorry about that.

Any how he will gain his power and position in time with or without the peoples vote.

That is one thing I see happening down the road, but just in case I will say that this is my assumption fair enough?

Russia is Russia and it will always be the way it was during the cold war days.

They just have a few more luxury items these days that is about all, but beneath it all Russia is Russia and always will be.

Have a nice day.

Agreed. They have had a truly appalling bit of luck the last 100 years or so. And frankly before that, if we're honest.

It's a sad day when the Russian Communists are a valid democratic choice over Putin. Either the commies have reformed to the point where they're unrecognizable, or Putin truly sucks.

Sounds like what's happening in America.

They could just pull a Bush and have a court appoint him the winner rather than acutally count the votes....

Curious, very well said and a poignant and thoughtful post.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Exactly. Both countries' elections have been plagued by voting incorrectness - to be polite:(

Yeah, if you think out pentagon budget is bloated now wait for the Nazis in this country to start the fear mongering and cold war again.... We won't have a dime in this country that won't go towards the military-industrial complex.

Look at it this way; The war is coming and no doubt about it. Who better to fight alongside us than communists?

You do mean the Christian American we have now, right? Because Obama's a Christian, and also pro America. I assume you also think he was born in Kenya, is a socialist, and is trying to take your guns away. Time to wake up and realize he's not as bad as you'd like him to be. Can you imagine where we'd be if McCain/Palin won in 2008? Likely would have lowered taxes for the rich while waging war on Iran...yeah, we'd sure be a lot better off...

I have a feeling a McCain/Palin voter wouldn't have the opportunity to be regretting that choice right now, since I'm pretty sure they would have done a fine job of killing us all by now. Or doing what Pat mentioned, and pretty much succeeding in wiping out the middle class for finally for good and all. Tiger.. really.. I am disappoint. That middle school education totally failed you, didn't it?

Let's hope the right wing in our country is going down. I wish they would all pack up and leave and go start their fascist regime somewhere else!!!

Frank-669022...You may get your Wish....

Obama along with his Global Warming Activist’s ie..FOOLS...Plan to Split the Earth:
Environmental journalist offer you this sensational breaking world exclusive.
The United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) are jointly establishing a new working committee to provide details of the plan to spit the Earth, right down the middle and steer its implementation – an Intergovernmental Panel on Earth Splitting (IPES). An unnamed spokesman said; “If you think about it, ten times the world’s gross national product is a small price to pay for such a complete solution. National leaders need to get together and work out a plan to start making payments immediately. Al Gore has already started the paperwork to form this new institute. Greenpeace is asking for donations to battle greedy corporations that will inevitably try to get in the way. Barack Obama is pressuring the UN to allow him to chair the first IPES meeting.

CO2 driven climate change: No problem. If you divide the Earth in half, you basically get two planets. There’s twice the space for the CO2, thus lowering its concentration to half what it is now. Spitting the Earth in two will be the largest public works project ever conceived. Scientists, engineers, workers, factories – everyone will benefit. Splitting the Earth so that Liberal countries end up on one planet and wealthier rich conservative countries on another gives the Liberal countries independence that will allow them to prosper. It will finally give them a chance, once and for all, to demonstrate how well dictatorships, military juntas, pure socialism, and radical Islamic fundamentalism can work. They just need their own planet to complete their work without interference. Political prosperity and world peace: Basic to climate science theory, is that every instance of poverty is the result of someone else’s prosperity.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

It is quite possible these people know more about their country and its politics than you learned while hiding from commies under your desk.

Tiger.. again, I am disappoint. They are better, and worse. Sure, strength is great. It doesn't do much for putting together a functioning economic system that doesn't rely on old Soviet era ties. And Putin has gone quite a long way in suppressing freedoms of the press, to the point of likely involving murder on more than a few occasions. When you see enough smoke in the forest, it is safe to assume fire. Your attempts to start fights are less clever than an exchange I had yesterday with a homeless man whom I've come to believe may have suffered a head trauma. Just stop. We are all embarrassed for you.

nomnuts

Your embarrassing yourself with your total lack of knowledge. I travel there quite often and can tell you first hand they are much much better off now than 15 years ago and so are we as a result. Do you not remember all the stories about military equipment disappearing including nukes? When Putin became president not only did the living conditions of the average person get MUCH better,also the military stablized(in case you don't get it that's a good thing for us) moron.

Tiger its obvious that some people are to ignorant and ASSUME way to much. Nom you know what happens when you assume right?

Putin is a cold war communist in everything but name only. But like the Chinese, Putin has embraced state controlled captitalism. Which means Putin can pull the plug on any business any time. Make no mistake, Putin is firmly in charge of Russia.

Putin knows what's best for everyone, who needs choices when Putin always does what's best?

/sarcasm

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Shake things up by being a Blue Republican and voting for Ron Paul.

Eisenhower warned us. Whom was a Republican. And who would now would be probably considered left by even current day Dems. Our politics are.. strange.

Juan

Yes, quite unlike all your countries great leaders right?

Tiger , did you read my third sentence? I did not exclude any one. Not even the government here in the United States of America. Just stating the facts has I see them.

Juan

No problem with that! My apologies!!!

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Why should capitalism last anywhere

Yes,just hope they don't use us as a role model.

Tiger why don't you move your sorry arse out of the US if you think it's so screwed up.. obvious to everyone you don't like it...

JJ

I like it just fine. Just trying to keep it from eroding due to scum like you. Maybe you would like to try to make me move? I enjoy hearing from liberal trash it amuses me.

It is much harder than you would think to leave the United States. Otherwise, I would be gone by now.

Daniel

You can't leave we're having too much fun. Where else could you go? America is no longer great,but its still the best there is.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

tony

Wake up your having a bad dream.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Only idiots in Russia watch TV and read newspapers. The Internet in Russia is free.So far. Otherwise I couldn't write this comment.

jennifer

Wow! BIG type. Honey you don't have to shout here. None of us are married to you!

Tiger...........I don't know Jennifer, but I don't like you calling her honey. And I don't like you talking down to her just because she's a woman. And I'll bet she doesn't even want to be married to any of you.

You don't even know how to address or respect a person because of their gender, but you think we should listen to your %&^* on foreign policy????

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

We're into fruit now? I knew I missed something! Should have went back to bed. I've noticed oranges share similar qualities,but they don't get all those worms.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

and PLEASE PLEASE do us the favor of going back to bed hell go anywhere besides the net

Lib

Come on now,surely you haven't drank that much koolaid? The congress is the only thing keeping Obumma from spending this country into Oblivian. (not sure about he spelling of that last word-sorry getting late)Anyway isn't it a little early to be up for a lib,Oh I forgot Walley World is open all night and it is the best time to get one of those electric carts.

Funny, I thought it was obama that created the Czars to circumvent the constitution, took over the auto companies, and banks, then has successfully taken over another 1/5th of the economy by taking control of healthcare. If that is not communism, tell me what is? We have a smooth talking liar in office that has fooled a lot of you liberal democrats and a lot of other people, but for the most part, we can see thru his smiles and lies and know what he really is......

killerteam

You may have the most correct post here. You must be carefull you will overload the feelings of the 46% of non working libs

why can't a discussion continue without the name calling and bitter retoric? Can't we disagree without trying to denigrate our opponents Calling people names and trying to make them seem less than others does not prove anyone right. Only rude.

Hey Lolita, your president said this election is not about white working people, so I guess you are left out too, except he still wants your money to give to his entitlement voting base and of course his unions that he is indebted to. Do you really think we are rude???? Frankly, most of us are disgusted with this president and his first lady with her nose stuck in the air that cant fly on vacation with her husband but wanted to leave 4 hrs earlier to go on vacation a little earlier.... That my dear cost you and i a bundle. Then the dude gets on tv and tells us that this is the time to cut back and not the time for businesses to make a profit...... just let him have all the money so he can go play golf and travel around the world on his apologize for America tours.

Tiger is psycho-posting. . .just ignore him. Ditto for Killerteam.

I call it truth posting and making people aware of what we have in the white house. He probably is more communist than Putin, I know he has done more damage to this country than Putin has.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

No, "killerteam" it was not Obama that creates "Czars" Nor is he the President to have the most "Czars." BTW, "Czar" is a media name for special advisor. Every President since Nixon have had them, and Bush had the most. He has not taken over any sector of the economy, much less healtcare. He never said this election wasn't about "white working people." But, you are full of RW talking points. I bet you have NEVER had an original thought in your life. And, you wouldn't know a communist. And how dare you disgrace the 1st Cav by using its patch as an avie.

The reason i use the first cav patch is because i am a disabled veteran from the viet nam war that served with the 1/12 cav there. The reason i post against obama is because any idiot with any political understanding would see what obama is doing to this country, and the people he put into Czar positions are communists, terrorists, and other shady people. I am proud of my country and served it well, never collected a dime from the government for welfare and worked hard for 45 yrs. And that, my friend raddave, makes me an enemy of obama the communist, because he definitely does not represent nor have anything to do with the white working voter. Now if you can show me something different, fine. And by the way, tell me where you served and what you have done for your country lately? Maybe you have been on an Apologize for America tour with your president?

Mike

WTF ? You have got to be kidding?

Mike'

Isn't it a little early for you to be up? The mail doesn't come this early or were you just getting a beer?

tiger, I don't know about Mikes reasons for being online at this time of day, but since you keep bringing the subject up, whats yours?

Oh, SNAP! Do tell us Tigger. . .why are you up and bouncing around the Newvine so early, hmmmmm? Too funny!

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Just shows you how ignorant the left is.

Voice

Good one! But I think you left out the part about Democrats being in the room.

What's so extreme about wanting to balance the Federal Budget?

Bill

Who is it that's trying to do that?

That is not what is extreme Bill. The extreme part is believe that Conservatives can do it. Didn't Bill Clinton do it and then Bush screw the whole thing up with 2 unpaid for wars and medicare part D?

Oh wait you are a Tea Bag so pointing out the past may be seen as blaming in your book when your little Nazi screwed everything up. Tea Baggers are such trash, too bad we can't deport their unAmerican butts.

Which is worse, Frank? A "little Nazi" or a shriveled-up Communist. Both are equally evil, and Obama is the evil-in-chief right now. And if the little Nazi screwed things up, the shriveled-up Commie bastard flushed them down the toilet.

Frank, the CONSERVATIVES wrote every bill clinton signed that led to that great economy you credit him with, Gingrich in particular.

How does that affect your world view? Or is it easier to just deny?

ScoMata1964, Yes, Republicans were responsible for the "Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000" that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton and would later be at the heart of the financial crisis of 2008 and the subsequent Great Recession.

While saying

"the CONSERVATIVES wrote every bill clinton signed"

is not true. Here are a few examples:

- "Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993" written by a Democrat and Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on February 5, 1993.
- "Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act" written by a Democrat and Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993.
- "Telecommunications Act of 1996" key members of Congress who had worked on the bill: Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.); Sen. Larry Pressler (R-S.D.); Sen. Ernest F. Hollings (D-S.C.); Rep. Thomas J. Bliley Jr. (R-Va.); Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.); Ron Brown, the secretary of Commerce, signed by President Bill Clinton.
- "Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act" Written through a bipartisan effort including Kennedy-D and signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996.

tiger u ignorant fool u are incapable of of comprehension. untill u learn to function above a 1st grade level do the world a favor and have ur mommy change the password on her computer so u can't interrupt the adults while they are talking.

Jason, do you consider yourself an adult? Now that's a truly f**king joke if ever there was one. And, if your written words can be considered "talking", then it must be the babblings of a baby that just sh*t his pants.

ScoMata1964

Frank, the CONSERVATIVES wrote every bill clinton signed that led to that great economy you credit him with, Gingrich in particular.

How does that affect your world view? Or is it easier to just deny?

That is a lie, the law that Clinton signed that led to that great economy was the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 that led to the economy growing and the budget surplus enjoyed in the last three years of his Presidency. Gingrich's contract on America was largly defeated, thank God, because it would have destroyed our economy much sooner. And the Budget reconciliation act of 1993 was voted against by EVERY republiCON in Congress.

Good post raddave. People like ScoMata1964 here just can't fathom that their party has made mistakes so they resort to downright lies to make themselves feel better.