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Ming Yeung / Getty Images, file
Police patrol the streets on Aug. 8 in London, England.
Hatred of the police has been identified as a major reason behind the widespread outbreak of rioting in the U.K. in August.
The Guardian newspaper, in association with the London School of Economics, carried out a major investigation into why disorder broke out on such a wide scale.
They spoke to 270 people who rioted in the cities of London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Manchester and Salford, gathering more than 1.3 million words of first-person accounts.
In Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron blamed the riots and looting on what he called a "slow-motion moral collapse." NBC's Brian Williams reports.
"Rioters identified a range of political grievances, but at the heart of their complaints was a pervasive sense of injustice," the newspaper said. "For some this was economic: the lack of money, jobs or opportunity. For others it was more broadly social: how they felt they were treated compared with others. Many mentioned the increase in student tuition fees and the scrapping of the education maintenance allowance.
"Although rioters expressed a mix of opinions about the disorder, many of those involved said they felt like they were participating in explicitly anti-police riots. They cited 'policing' as the most significant cause of the riots," it added.
The Guardian published a timeline of interviews with those involved, showing how the rioting spread from a protest about the fatal shooting of a man, Mark Duggan, by police in Tottenham, north London, to a nationwide problem.
He's become the emblem of the riots. Twenty-year-old Malaysian accounting student Asyraf Haziq was assaulted then mugged by passers-by as he lay collapsed and bleeding on an east London street.
One rioter, involved in the Tottenham riot on Aug. 6, told how he decided to join in when he saw a police car being burned.
"It was the police car – I know what they stand for," he told The Guardian. "For the record: yeah, I do hate the f****** police ... I was caught up in the situation. And it was like: let's cause f****** chaos – let's cause a riot."
'We're bigger than the police'
Others then went to see what was happening and got caught up in the general feeling that the police were unable to stop the rioters.
Social media and the mob mentality can be a dangerous combination, as shown by the London riots, which were fed by texts and instant messages. NBC's Mara Schiavocampo reports.
"I think the looting came about because it was linked to police," another rioter, a 19-year-old student, told the paper. "We're showing them that, yeah, we're bigger than the police, we are actually bigger than the police. Fair enough, we are breaking the law and everything, but there's more of us than there are of you. So if we want to do this, we can do this. And you won't do anything to stop us."
Messages circulated on Blackberry phones in particular, saying where the next riots would be.
Gangs put aside rivalries to allow the rioting and looting to take place, some told The Guardian.
By Aug. 8, the rioting had spread outside London with the worst trouble happening in Birmingham.
"Firstly, it was just running into shops, pulling clothes off the hangers and running out again," a 16-year-old told The Guardian. "We seen some windows being smashed in. We just thought, everyone else is doing it. It just seemed like a good idea really."
He complained that the police "call us little s**** and little b******* and everything," he said. "They're not what you see on the TV and that – acting all good and that."
The teenager said he had stolen Nike track pants so he could feel like "people with money, good families." He said they looked down on him.
"I hate feeling like people are judging me," he told The Guardian. "They don't know about me and then they just look at you and I hate it, I absolutely hate it."
Read more content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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Misdirected anger. When the mob turns to riot, the Police are the last vestige of order. When the government orders them not react, the cities burn.
And who controls the government ? The 2 percenters. The mobs that rose up are why we don't belong to a king any more.
One can properly call the riots an amalgamation of idiots and criminals! Riots usually are such events.
I3addog: Never been riots in the (good old) USofA then ?
That same feeling is rapidly growing in the US ... add to it, the contempt for our government and the number grows alarming .............
What a spoiled brat, and a total disconnect from reality....
Rich people don't wear Nike track pants.......you could wear Prada and they would still see you for what you are.....They would look down on you because of your behavior and beliefs, not what you wear.
What? I think your feelings are the problem. What would you prefer, that they move to the other side of the street and never look at you? That is the alternative.
Here are examples of kids who've not grown up in the real world. Thank the entitlement mentality for that.
I find it interesting that people like this think "looking like" or having "cash to flash" will make them fit in, or be equal to rich folks. That will never happen as long as they get their money from the govt. The rich people are paying for the entitlement crowd's lifestyle and the rich folk know it. Visual affluency will never make them the same as people who got out there and earned their living for themselves. The entitlement crowd will always remain "the poor." It's not the money.....it's the mind set that got them the money. It's known as a "work ethic."
These people are rioting because they had it so good for so long, and now that is gone. People just have a want. They want respect, but don't want to do what it takes to earn it. They want nice things, but lack the drive to get it. They want a nice house, but can't afford it. They want so many things, and have lost the knowledge of how to obtain it. That is what happens when obtaining all things is made so much easier. The people think it is a need, rather than a want.
I3addog - you can blame the 2%, or whomever, but the government didn't cause the riots. The police surely didn't. It was the people. The people who want what the 2% have, but won't do what it takes to get it. Riots will never land riches into the laps of the rest of your countrymen/women.
They don't like the police because the police don't let them steal. What a revelation.
Granted, I don't condone stealing crap, but I wounder how many here whining about them being against the police, have ever dealt with the British Legal system? You are guilty until proven innocent, you can't view them through the lense of the American judicial system. Their streets have better surveillance systems then some of our military basses, and their police have attitudes like they are there to babysit you.
Again, no reason to steal, but UK police on average, suck... (Just look at the picture of the old guy hitting a girl with his baton - treat them like a [Rodney] King.)
I lived in London in the 1960's and have visited frequently ever since. In the 60's the police were unarmed and extremely well respected. They were unfailingly well-spoken and respectful --- always. But in the intervening time the police became more "modern." Guns and finally automatic rifles became standard issue. They started wearing bright green vests and hats. They became much more authortarian. And they ended up much more "American" patterned mostly after American cop shows. When the riots broke out, the British police actually hired hardline American advisers to tell them how to handle it.
And as this happened you could see the distance between the police and the people increased. People no longer stopped to chat with the "bobbies" and they were seen always in their patrol cars or standing around in large groups of as many as 20-30 police, apparently doing nothing. They blocked sidewalks and forced people to walk into the streets to get around them, especially at tourist attractions like Big Ben Corner and the infamous ferris wheel. The habit of asking the police for directions soon evaporated. Partly because the police no lionger seemed to know and partly because of curt, often rude, replies. Numbers of American tourists questioned why the police seemed so rude to Americans only to be told by the Brits that they were that way towards everyone.
That said, it seemed to be much, much worse in a city like London than in the smaller towns like High Wycombe that I frequently visited. The British seemed to feel that the "inferior" cops were transferred to the small towns and had they promotions limited if they were too "old fashioned" or polite.
Terrorism and the prevalence of minorities was often cited as the cause for the change, but it was just too pervasive and too incremental for that.
The rioters based their grievance on their own feelings of envy and jealousy, felt entitled to take what they did not earn, and then felt angry that the police were preventing them from stealing, looting, and engaging in senseless property destruction. I wonder what group protest seems to be based in almost identical sets of 'values' here in the U.S. today?
The british police still only carry mace,tear gas, etc., They should carry heavy weapons. I think if the riots keep happening England will begin to arm the police with more than stun guns.
Well on one hand I think these individuals are against police because they enjoy breaking the law. On the other hand, most police officers today are a far cry from the duty driven, helpful people they should be. Most cops where I live are more worried about being a tough guy and abusing their authority than helping anyone. Here's a test; walk up to a police officer and remind him or her that it's their duty to protect and serve you and see how they react.
It is easy to make statements like that but proving them is something else, I call your statement BS, Generally statements like this come from people who have either found themselves on the wrong end of the argument when it comes to the law or they aspired to be a police officer and were not qualified.
Heres a test, Walk up to any citizen and remind them it is their duty to pay taxes, Chances are you will get the same reaction, However if you have a civilized conversation with both the citizens and the police officer you will find that they both know and agree with what their duties are.
A couple weeks of the "Blue Flu" and those that profess their hatred of the cops will be begging for them to return to their work.
Not really. If someone said that to I would chuckle and say, "yeah you're right." Face it, most cops are lazy and have an inflated sense of entitlement at least where I come from. They spend more time setting in convenience stores and smoking cigarettes than they do patrolling or watching traffic. Sorry but you are wrong and it's not just me. Most people I know don't trust the police and I am certainly not a criminal, but just because I'm not a criminal doesn't mean I am blindly going to trust cops like you.
It amazes me that so many can condemn those for rioting but then again I suspect those same idiots have never had to fight for anything. When you lose your job or can't find a job then you start getting desperate. The violence started because the cops started to use excessive force against the original peaceful protests. Just as we have here in the USA, the cops are being used by the corporate American thugs who are using the cops as their own private security. All Americans need to take heed that if the cops persist to use violence towards those who are using their rights to peacably assemble then the frustration will turn to violence. History has taught us that when you try to stop the people from invoking their rights violence follows.
Unbelievable, what a twisted, perverted mentality. Human beings lose any sense of civility and decency when they riot.
Love them or hate them the law is the only thing between order and anarchy.
Yeah, I wonder why people look down on a loser like this.
At least we have guns in this country to protect ourselves from this type of deranged sociopath.
You do realize its not the wild west where you can shoot someone for looking at the wrong way - right? How come small minded individuals always devolve to using guns?
It's apparent your distaste for guns is clouding the facts. When social order breaks down it is every man for himself. If you read the quote above it should be apparent why small minded individuals devolve to using guns.
You do realize that with many states' Castle laws you can legally defend your residence - right? How come small minded individuals disparage gun owners and 2nd amendment rights?
There. Fixed that for you. You're welcome.
Hey mike and sap, if you are worried about 'devolving' and guns perhaps you would be better suited to move and live in a country where they are banned. Dont let the door hit you in the keister and have a nice day!
Or better, how come small-minded individuals always devolve to violent rioting and looting when they sense a real or imagined slight?
The law is not the "only thing between order and anarchy." Most people live their whole life without even entertaining the idea of rioting. Maybe you need the police to hold your hand. Most of us do not.
Students you say, something is really lacking in their education when they blame the police for their miserable life.
Ya I wonder which "group" hates the police. We are betting it is NOT the real Brits, but the new wave of immigrants that thinks like they do in here.
Don't have to follow the law because it is NOT a religious law, and there fore when the police do their job, then they are the bad guys.
I doubt that's the case Steven. Really see no indicatation that this was motivated by religion in any way.
And quit with the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Idiot - most of the people arrested were British did you not see that on the TV screens. In Birmingham it was the 'so called immigrants' that defended their communtity. remember the Muslim boys that were killed when a car ran over them? That was them defending from rioting, and were ran over but your so called proud British people.. sigh you idiot racist go join the woman on the tram (or are you that poor babies father?)
"Wave of immigrants"? I don't see that in the article. Not saying you're wrong, just that I don't see it in the article. And unless someone here can point out what I missed, can we please refrain from the American politicians "talking points"? Think for yourself, just because some politician of "your" party said it, doesn't make it so.
Get an education, respect yourself, respect your parents and respect others. Alcoholism, cigarettes and drugs do cost money and wastes talent. Read a book and observe what makes successful people. This observation would scare the hell out of you all.
Opportunity is missed by the rioters because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Cheers!
I totally agree Crisis! This rioting is nothing but the result of bringing up spoiled rotten, self-entitled brats. I'm 58 & from the U.S. and I will say that it's all our own fault - me included.
We're the dummy parents & teachers who brought up those spoiled rotten little brats by following Dr. Spock & all the so-called "experts," and giving in when we were told to never spank their precious little behinds.
Yet, we also fed into all that, "gotta increase their self esteem" crap too. Yeah, well, we did - and look around at what we have today!
This rioting has nothing to do with wealth vs. poor. How many of those "poor" do you see walking around with their own cell phones?
I worked in the city all my adult life. Trust me, they may be classified as being "poor" but most really don't go without! And what they don't have, they steal.
That's the problem. Kids, rich, middle class, and "poor" all want everything to be handed to them, without having to do the hard work to get it!
All they know how to do is DEMAND. They have no respect for anyone or anything and they give nothing back. Blood suckers is what they are! And, yes, it's our own fault!
@Sunny2: Thanks for finally admitting that. I've felt that way for - well, pretty much ever since I was old enough to be conscious of the issue. Today's entitlement-minded kids didn't raise themselves that way. It was the feel-good, self-esteem riddled, time-out/quality time generation of parenting that brought this on us. Hopefully the next generation of parents will realize this before it's too late - but I'm afraid it's already too late. When every single kid who signs up for baseball gets a "participation trophy" just for showing up and every single enlisted soldier who finishes basic training gets a ribbon for doing so, we're definitely on the wrong track.
Look at the British culture. First they looted the world for centuries. Now they are looting their own nation. Hope they get better cultural education.
Looting their own nation....
Seems to be the "in" thing for most governments these days.
Don,t say it too loud, it will be hell if this happens here.
Especially with security cameras recording your every move in public in Britain, I'm sure that police hatred was a big contributory reason for these riots. However, the lure of free stuff for the taking is the elephant behind the handkerchief here.
I can see this happening in America I believe the biggest threat to American citizens are the Police across the country becoming more and more militarized, for which we should hold the right wing fear mongering politicians accountable for.
I believe the biggest threat to American Citizens are individuals who have no respect for their fellow citizens and the law and feel they have the right to commit Murder,Rape,Robbery,Burglary and theft and not be penalized for it.
My home was broken into 2 times and it was not the police who did it, It was someone who needed money for their drug habit.
I think the biggest threat to American citizens are individuals who feel a complete sense of entitlement. Not to mention those with no common sense.
The police in the USA don't carry batons, some have Billy Clubs, almost all carry guns. Carry a gun, and the 'students' rioting will go back to doing their homework. I would advise them to study history.
Pretty much all Americans have guns, not just the police/military. Our country was born out of revolution. The struggle here is not about a bunch of college kids wanting something for nothing. It is a struggle against a system set up to benefit only the wealthy, it is a struggle about greed, corrupt mega corporations and a corrupt government protecting the corporations while letting the common man starve in the streets, be thrown out of his home... The middle class here is the majority of Americans 99%. If the powers that be don't recognise the beginnings of a new American revolution, then it will go down in flames...Hopefully, people will wake up and not let that happen...
Our justice system was modeled from theirs and ours is as corrupt as an unprotected hard drive on a Friday night. I certainly understand their anger but the rioting only hurts shop owners and destroys communities.
What a surprise. People that riot don't like police.
Dopes!
Britain is divided into explicit classes. It still has an aristocracy and its royalty. That represents money that is gathered to private hands not on the basis of economies of scale, but by law. The US has a lot of that too, but the classes are potentially breachable by people with smart ideas making money on them.
Upward mobilty is hard in a society with such oppressive taxes. Hopelessness breeds discontent...
The fallacy in your comment is that the people doing the rioting are not the ones paying the majority of taxes, The people paying that majority of taxes are the shopkeepers and businesses who were having their property stolen and destroyed by the individuals their taxes actually went to support.
Upwards mobility in the UK is almost the same as in the US, and a lot worse than in other parts of Europe where people (funnily enough) often pay more in taxes.
PS. The amount of money taken out of my pay for taxes when working in the UK was a little less than it has been here in the US. I would wager that you know nothing about what the taxes are like in the UK and blindly believe the 50% schtick you hear on Fox.
And who did the rioters take it out on? Shopkeepers (who were looted), drivers (including scooter drivers pushed off their bikes after which the thieves drove off), innocent bystanders (who were beat up and robbed), the inhabitants of apartments and council houses (who were burned out). Face it: the rioting was about looting, the chance to get something for nothing, and the opportunity to beat up the helpless and destroy for the sake of destruction. In short, pure evil.
Typical welfare state mentality, "I want what everybody else has but I don't want to work for it" and we will use some BS reason like "hatred of the police". After the last of the "Greatest Generation" of Britons has passed all will be forgotten,London will burn again. Not by a maniac like Hitler but by the hands of these home grown maniacs. Keep breedin' and drinking that cheap gin.
lemmings....all of them following the brainless "leaders"....blaming to justify their actions...the hard working stiff gets his windows smashed and his products stolen...next it will be private homes & rioters will say they envy people with a child in a pram...support police...this nonsence can spread faster than the flu
And this is what happens when you DISARM most of the citizens.
IF some of the store owners had a shotgun or two, the little scum-bag RIOTERS would have thought twice before burning building down.
Example:: During the LA riots, The Korean community fought back WITH GUNS, limiting the attacks
I have read some comments that feel the biggest threat is the police. How did one come to that conclusion?
The police follow orders directed to the from the mayor and city commissioners and they enforce laws passed by the city, state or congress. The same as soldiers just follow orders given by the President and Congress.
Who is the greater threat? the ones who are paid to follow orders, or the one giving the orders?
Many here have worked a job where some customer gets upset and tells you off over some policy that management passed that you had noting to do with, nor could you change the policy rather you agreed with it or not. The customer sees you and lets his frustration out on you when he is actually mad at the management.
The police and first responders are the first ones people see, however they are just following orders from management above. One can attack them all they want, it will change nothing for they do not make the policies, however it will get the rest of the community mad at the ones attacking, for the police and first responders are there to serve the communities which are made up of a bunch of families. Nobody likes kaos
They are rioting for the same reasons here and it doesnt have a dam thing to do with the police except getting harrased by them.They need to put tarriffs on all incoming goods.
Police have nothing to do with tarriffs. Go back and read articles of the occupiers camps being broke up. The police harrassment as refers to came as a result of the mayor ordering them to break up the camps. Then the police showed up for they were given the order to do that. The same as they are given guide lines from above of when a protest has gone to far and when to intervene.
Taking it out on the police makes about as much sense as saying Joe offended me and made me mad, therefore I am going to take it out on jack, or bob or sue. Joe wont care one bit, does not hurt joe in the least.
The police are being used as a tool to violate the rights of the protesters.The Constitution gives them the right to protest and assemble.The government of these cities are violating it and should be sued over it.YOU WONT QUIT IT.Its a infection and its growing and if the economy is not fixed soon its going to blow up in these people faces.Putting tarriffs on goods prevent these corporations from hurting the middleclass any further.Peoples Houses and lively hood are NON NEGOTIABLE.You can say what you want but THE PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH
Putting tariffs on these goods will only hurt the person who buys these goods meaning the end user, That means you and me, Personally I try to buy made in the US whenever I can and even on occasion buy used over new if it means buying a US made product.
Your contention that you are owed a job simply by right of being a citizen is erroneous, You have the right to go out and try to succeed and with that also comes the right to failure, Quit blaming a business for your shortcomings, If you think owning a business is so easy then maybe you should start your own.
As for the OWS crowd, Their rights to assembly and protest end when they interfere with the rights of the others in the community, Your/their rights do not trump ours.
Signed
A real member of the 99%
I think we are starting to see this in America.People are losing their trust in them and they are starting to see the other side that isn't so glorious.At times they seem to have an air of hierarchy and believe they are untouchable. Not to mention the lying and dishonesty.
did you see those police officers?....no riot gear....totally exposed...they are brave..I wonder if the penalties are still as stiff as they used to be re injuring a police officer...perhaps they are still relying on that as a deterrant??
Sadly, there are a lot of bad police in many places. Not just Britain. They make all Police look bad. I know, ive had my share of run-ins with them. The job is a magnet for people looking to get off on the power of it. And racists and bullies. I dont know what kind of psych test they do, but they need to improve it. Big time. They need a lot more over-sight too. That said, ive also met many decent cops just doing the job. This goes a lot deeper than police anyway, its the laws too. People are getting tired of the rising police state. Everywhere. Britain is particularily bad with all the cameras. There is change on the wind, sooner or later. Its the old guard holding things up mostly.
I certainly dont endorse rioting, but I can see why it happened. Its not like people havent been complaining for a long time, yet nothing changes. That puts the blame on politicians, and the apathetic public. Rioting is what happens when people feel they are being ignored, or that people dont care. When they feel theres no other option left. People will only put up with being ignored, or abused for so long. Im sure no one is ignoring them now.
This reports is really a misrepresentation of the The Guardian article. The first motivation that original article cites is this:
Many rioters conceded that their involvement in looting was simply down to opportunism, saying that a perceived suspension of normal rules presented them with an opportunity to acquire goods and luxury items they could not ordinarily afford. They often described the riots as a chance to obtain "free stuff" or sought to justify the theft.
This is hardly the same thing as what is implied above -- social grievance; it is pure greed and a belief that every individual is "owed" their own "free stuff", even if not earned.
Pathetic reporting of even more pathetic behavior.
When one has no one else to blame for the own failings they always resort to blaming someone else.
The "I hate the police " attitude is most commonly seen in those who have violated the law and gotten caught, They vent their frustration on getting caught at the police instead of at themselves for violating the law in the first place. They see laws as restrictions on their freedoms or rights to violate other peoples freedoms or rights.
These are the same types of people who want freedoms to do what they want regardless of the danger to themselves or innocent bystanders and will either cry that their freedoms were violated if they were not let do what they want or if they are allowed they will turn around and try to sue if they wind up injuring themselves.