13 years is 4745 days...so 1 lash every two days (roughly)...not nearly enough...give him a 1 day sentence and all 2000 at once

An official Saudi newspaper says a man convicted of raping his daughter has been sentenced to receive 2,080 lashes over the course of a 13-year prison term.

He should get them all at once..

give him a 1 day sentence and all 2000 at once

Looks like we posted at the same time and of course I agree. I doubt they will give him one lash every few days though.. They will probably whip him, until hes one inch from death and then allow him to heal up for the next whipping..

Sometimes Sharia law sounds pretty good to me!

What can I say Sir/Madam....your readers are a bit happy on this one.

You consider the rape of a man's own child over a period of years trivia? Really. Interesting.

It usually the case that we read about outlandish punishments for trivial (in our eyes) offenses; particularly if it involves "backward" cultural issues. This is the first article that I have seen which gives a penalty more befitting the offense in a country ruled by Sharia law. I have read where a man and woman were stoned to death due to adultery (extreme), cutting the hand of a child for stealing food (very extreme). But this, (floggings likely) over a course of thirteen years, seems to fit more what Americans would approve of concerning incest/rape. The offender should be clean and sober when he gets out, if he survives.

What's there to complain about? I think we should have replaced the death penalty with lashings as compromise.

The most likely reason for the lengthy sentence is because of the drugs. It is RARE that men are punished for crimes against women under Islam. As to the lashings..... A set ever 28 days over the 13 years with the last 10 on the last day of the sentence. And should he be granted early release he has to finish all remaining lashes on that day.

2080 lashes given all at once would be a death sentence. Approximately 0.05 inches of flesh is removed with each stroke on the skin. About 0.1 from fat and muscle. The skin is about 0.1 inches thick. So it takes about two strokes to remove the skin. It takes about 60 applied in one spot to remove roughly 6 inches of flesh, which would go through organs such as kidneys. Bones protect some tissues. A whip won't go through bones.

A whip is about 1/4 inch wide. There is roughly 25 inches vertically on the back. That is room for 100 different spots for the whip to land.

2080 / 100 = 20.8

So that means that the absolute best case is that there would be 20.8 lashes on ever point on the back if they were distributed perfectly. (Which they are not.)

20.8 strokes on every point on the back means that all skin would be removed by the first 2 on every spot.

Then there would be 18.8 more strokes at the higher rate of removal of flesh. Distributed equally the lashes would remove 2 inches of flesh from everywhere.

At the rate of 2 lashes per minute this process would require 17.5 hours to complete.

I suppose with intensive care, including IV blood transfusions while it was happening, suspending him slanted mostly upside down, and supplementary oxygen, it might be possible for him to survive most of it. Living through it to tell the tale? I doubt it.

Most likely he would get a session once a month. That would be thirteen or so per month. That could be endured. Every time he healed up, he would get a new set of lashes.

13 years is 4745 days...so 1 lash every two days (roughly)...not nearly enough...give him a 1 day sentence and all 2000 at once

Like your Logic but if they wait 60 day intervals thats 30 lashes, 30 lashes can kill you..

TMI Ellen...TMI

Even a blind Muslim squirrel finds a nut once in a while. I am surprised they didn't jail and flog her.

2080 lashes given all at once would be a death sentence. Approximately 0.05 inches of flesh is removed with each stroke on the skin. About 0.1 from fat and muscle. The skin is about 0.1 inches thick. So it takes about two strokes to remove the skin.

So how about 12 strokes, 2 per area (at least one in groin area) every, say, 4 days? 3 days? Sounds like a plan to me. I may start a petition and collect signatures to make it THE form of punishment here in the states for ANY pedophile or rapist REGARDLESS of the severity of the crime. Oh, and NO painkillers or antibiotics.

Ray-283416 - I thought it was pretty informative, tbh.

Both the crime and the punishment are sickening.

Wait for the headline that's bound to come. "Daughter of man sentenced to 13 years in prison and 2080 lashes is herself found guilty of having sex with a man who is not her husband and is sentenced to death by stoning!"

Has anyone else noticed that ,MSNBC, has become a third rate national enquirer; not reporting important news, but just reporting trivia !

They probably do that because people such as yourself are so interested in stories like this they not only read them but feel they should comment on them.

You folks want to sound as if their being soft. How long does a child rapists in the US serve --and does get get lashes? Why don't we stop critiquing every culture and claiming ours is superior. We're not morally superior. We committed acts of genocide to gain our land. Slave trade was alive and well for over 100 years, and women weren't allowed to vote for 65 years after slavery was outlawed. People were declared witches and burned at the stake. Point is---don't mind the business of others. History is not going to be any nicer to us than it is to them.

First it depends on who's applying the lashes. Second, the way women are looked on over there, my guess is the only reason he's even in trouble is because he was taking drugs while he did it.

Please remember these people have honor killings!!! I'm truly surprised they didn't try the daughter instead.

While I agree that the acts by this individual/lowlife slug (you cannot call him a man because he isn't one) are reprehensible and deserving of severe punishment under what THEIR LAWS prescribe, I stand in amazement at what the overall attitude happens to be of Americans when it comes to how Americans feel people SHOULD be punished in this country regardless of what that punishment would be on constitutional rights violations but more so of just how they seem to be bubbling over with this seething desire to see other Americans subjected to torture and unlimited pain and suffering as a means of punishment AND how they are just 100% positive that this will not only prevent future crimes but it is the ONLY true way to deal with people who have committed a crime!!

How did so many people come to this conclusion? Where is the logic that the answer to violence is violence itself? Trust me I am nothing near a bleeding heart, but I am also not a knuckle dragging arm chair judge/jury/executioner either, I have a hard time listening to people who propose that shoving a red hot poker into a man’s rectum or cutting off his penis with pinking shears is just punishment for rape! I know that no one on this feed has written anything of the like but I have read those exact same words on others when it comes to discussions of punishment of criminals! I do believe that rape is next to homicide in seriousness and calls for a harsh penalty but I do not support gutting the bill of rights in pursuit of justice! Have we become a nation of people who have the idea that "one upping" is the answer to crime when it is obvious that it is nothing more than state sponsored revenge!!!

What?? No tv in his cell and internet to blog with? So un-American.

Maybe if America was to bring back some types of corperal punishment we'd have less crime. Yes, you'd have to measure out the whippings for this man to avoid killing him but personally 2,080 is far less than what he deserves. RApists in America don't do very much time and frankly are better taken care of than thousands upon thousands of American children. They have a roof over their heads, 3 meals, medical care, access to libraries, internet, education, can even have tv and cable if they have money or someone to pay for it. Yet we have homeless children, starving, without medical care and education. Put these criminals on an Island somewhere far out in the ocean and let them fend for themselves, stop throwing money away on them and take care of kids so they don't become the next generation of criminals. As far as some of these backward countries, too bad we couldn't gather all the scumbags into one area and nuke em".

I agree with some of you. I read the title of this article and fully expected to see the daughter being punished even worse. It's something we've come to expect from these countries.

Why don't we stop critiquing every culture and claiming ours is superior

Because any country that blames the child for being raped IS inferior and deserves the critique. Now while this punishment certainly fits the crime, the past few months have shown many instances where even the most neutral of people would be concerned.

How much jail time will his daughter be sentenced to for adultery? Will she have to marry her father to get out of jail?

MSNBC, please tell us what happened to the daughter? I wonder if she was convicted of having sex out of wedlock.

I wonder.....If Dear Ol' Dad had performed an "Honor Killing" of his daughter, saying she "lied" about her father and brought shame to the family....No victim to testify against him, no rape crime ???

Good point Jacobs. I don't think this girl won't get any punishment for doing any kind of sexual demostration to her father.

sumatymrolls- If you've been violently raped, you might change your tone. Have you? If the answer is no, then you shouldn't comment on what other people feel is appropriate punishment for their (or any other) rapist.

She wouldn't get stoned because Sunni Sharia is much more liberal than Shia Sharia Law.

I agree with impatient girl...I think the person who has been raped should be the person that decides the proper punishment...that way justice would be done! and everyone would feel justified!

Anyone who commits rape, let alone of their own daughter deserves to be lashed until death while being suspended by their genitals. Picture a human piniata.

saxon said "Has anyone else noticed that ,MSNBC, has become a third rate national enquirer; not reporting important news, but just reporting trivia !"

I really doubt that the girl feels what happened to her is TRIVIAL! She not only has to deal with the aftermath of what happened, she will be viewed as "damaged goods", ineligible to marry and may even be killed to restore the family's "honor".

Ellen Hunt - where did you get the stats on whipping?

"I agree with impatient girl...I think the person who has been raped should be the person that decides the proper punishment...that way justice would be done! and everyone would feel justified!"

That's not justice, that's revenge. Two entirely different concepts that people have repeatedly lumped together for far too long. Nothing done to this man will change what he did to his daughter. Nothing done to this man will fix anything. Separate him from the rest of society so he can no longer do harm, but doing anything more is revenge and we should be beyond that sort of Neanderthalistic thinking at this point.

Good post Ellen, i read that it took about 40 lashes to kill a person. I think it was St. Paul that wrote that.

Hard to say how accurate that is though.

Of course, had the girl been older and been raped by someone else, she would be stoned to death.

In response: Mike Schmidt-"That's not justice, that's revenge."

"Revenge"???? Not so sure about that......

This is without a doubt what can be called one hell of a "Criminal Deterrent"!!!!! The Saudi's don't F*#@ around when it comes to "Criminal Activity".... Hence....an extremely low crime rate in Saudi Arabia!!!!! Now, that said, It would be nice if they could come into "This Century" and "HUMAN-LY" define their "Criminals"..... ie..... "Stoning" a Gang-raped woman for apparently "Forcing" herself on those Poor Rapists is completely F#*&ED UP!!!!!!!!! and "Honour Killings"??? WTF???

I though sharia law demanded "eye for an eye" punishment.

Would not that demand that he be repeatedly raped over a seven year period?

I guess that will happen anyway. The will of Allah?

That was my first thought. If the father got 13 yrs and 2K lashes, she must have been stoned to death.

My thought exactly. Her "sentence" wasn't mentioned, but if it is anything like what I heard in other countries that follow this kind of sharia law, she likely has a more severe sentence.

Hopefully the uncle who told the authorities, help shield her somehow.

She will not be sentenced. Sharia law does not sentence a victim. As for the whole cutting off the hand of a child, where's your proof?

Citizen of the World-3659610....."She will not be sentenced. Sharia law does not sentence a victim."

Yeah....tell that to the following "victims":

1. 13 Year old stoned to death for getting gang raped:

• http://www.aina.org/news/20081117111817.pdf
• http://www.aina.org/news/20081117111817.htm

2. Rape victim gets 200 lashes: http://www.themuslimwoman.org/

3. Pre-Teen girls gets raped before getting executed: http://atheism.about.com/b/2010/07/05/muslim-iran-pre-teen-girls-raped-before-being-executed.htm

And these are just "samples" of Sharia Laws AGAINST victims.

"Citizen of my basement" seems more appropriate.

And, another rape victim: http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/45624844/#45624844

This is awful that any parent rape their own child: but I do have to mention

In Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and a few other Middle Eastern countries its actually OK that grown men

can have sex with younger boys...just sayin'

sharia law is a contradiction in terms ... just like Saudi justice.

why are we at war with Iraq and Afghanistan, when the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis

The uncle will be ostracised from his family and the community. That's the sick part.

Ido - aina.org is an Assyrian website that is biased against Muslims. Give me evidence from the New York Times or from a website that is NOT biased against any single religion. If that is "evidence", then so is this:

What's interesting is how people are attacking Sharia law, when we all turn a blind eye to what is going on here in the U.S. Women and children are being raped and beaten and they get off with ridiculous sentences. Examples of rapes of children in the U.S.:

(rape of minors - faces life in prison, but no lashes)

Need more? In the U.S., teen pregnancies are "glorified" with shows like "Teen Mom". Priests have been guilty ().

well you see "citizen", it's like this:

if an American newpaper does publish an article critical of muslims, then muslims start sending death threats and riot. they did over a bunch of stupid cartoons.

btw, lashes are illegal and unconstiututional in the US and fall under "cruel and unusual punishment", so your comment about rape and minors is irrelevant,(and despite what people here are saying, it is an act of barbarians) they get life, that's good with me.

sigh. I hope the girl will be okay. The rapist also. Neither deserves to be condemned for life, or punished to death. Remember that abuse, including physical torture and rape, is a vicious cycle. If you now physically torture the rapist, you will only increase the mental derangement already within him.

The lack of knowledge of human psychology and human rights in the middle east is really horrible... and the ultra violent punishments doled out to 'nonconformists' is truly terrible, savage and barbaric, in my own opinion. God save them all from each other's cruelty and ignorance.

you have to consider that Saudi Arabia is fairly civilized in their legal system. They don't punish a victim. Yes they're strict, but in this case I actually agree with the Kingdom.

danwill - ''they get life, that's good for me'', then you will have in prison raping you! is that good enough for you?

Shariah Law does not punish the victim, atheistic and ChristoFascist polemic/hate web sites notwithstanding.

The punishment for rape is death in Shariah Law...Saudi Arabia is not a fully Shariah Law compliant state. What you have there is Shariah Law twisted around according to the ruling class whose own behaviour is nowhere near to that expected of Muslims.

This was a lenient punishment, probable to be prorated eighty to hundred and ten lashes at a time till the supervising doctor stops the 'show'. Pain though is not the real punishment - it is supposed to be meted out in the 'town-square' as added humiliation in his neighbourhood, among his friends and neighbours. Humiliation and shame is the objective...and publicly witnessed thought provoking deterrence...

Also recall a while back a Jewish father who had produced four children from his twenty four years old daughter, over many years, all conceived under framed overhead 'Star of David'. No serious punishment was awarded. It had nothing to do with Judaism.This is a sickness...

Please note incest is a mental illness and happens often in Christian homes in the United States, more so in the Bible Belt - Southern States - but then rape is the most committed crime in the US, compared to any other country...you never know, one may be happening right now in your own neighbour.

2.1 and 2.2,

Actually, under Shari'a law, since the uncle did come forward on her behalf, she probably didn't get sentenced. It's supposed to take four men saying a woman was raped, but given the situation, the uncle is the brother or brother-in-law, and that carries some weight.

There isn't a justice system on the planet that consistently prosecutes and punishes rape of any kind. In this country, we're not only still getting the 'what was the victim wearing' defense, but if people have read some of the posts on rape stories, there are people out there who don't apparently believe a woman or a child can be raped - as they are always 'asking' for it.

So this country doesn't have much of a moral high ground to look down on anyone on, either.

citizen, here in the U.S., people charged with crime has better chance of receiving the best justice in the world to the point of guilty people "get away with murder." Isn't it Sharia law is based on "guilty until proven innocent?" And the accused has the burden of proving himself/herself innocent? If given the choice between Sharia law and the justice system here, I will take my chance with the justice system here anytime.

Also, here in the US, when a man is jailed for child abuse, he usually receives prison justice. The hardest murderers in prison still love their children, and they don't look kindly on child abusers. Just saying...

Don't worry! From Saudi standards this is nothing.

If they apply Sharia Laws to Saudi ruler and thousands of Princesses, the punishments will be worse!

Personally I think pedaphiles everywhere should receive the death penalty as there is no way to "cure" them of their sexual compulsions towards children. A man - or woman for that matter - who rapes any child and especially their own child should not be tolerated to live and repeat their offense again. There is no such thing as effective rehabilitation or prevention for pedaphiles, and chemical castration isn't worth the breath it takes to say it.

Actually what many people think of as "Sharia" is not Sharia at all but tribal customs that have been around for thousands of years and which Sharia was supposed to replace. In actual Sharia, a rape or incest victim is not to be punished or censured, and in the Qur'an and supplemental texts, the Sunnah and Hadith, special rewards are given to men who marry women who have been victims of sexual assault. "Honor" killings are forbidden. The English translation of Sharia that I have studied has 1660 pages, most of which reads like church cannon and civil codes governing how to conduct oneself in prayer and religious matters, in public and family life, with regards to neighbors and strangers, in business practices, in the production and preparation of food and the treatment of animals, and the importance of good manners and morals. Only 28 pages deal with criminal codes and of those only 9-1/2 deal with severe punishments such as lashing or beating, cutting off a hand, or the death penalty. For those punishments there are very strict definitions of what constitutes a severe or capital crime, who can try such a case, and exacting standards of evidence and testimony required, and if these are not met then the court cannot issue the sentence. The actual basis of Sharia compliance is restitution to victims of crime and rehabilitation of offenders.

I admit that there are some principles in Sharia that I disagree with, just as there are principles in our own judicial, religious, and social systems that I disagree with. But one should keep in mind that the status of women in Orthodox Judaism and Evangelical or Fundamentalist Christianity is fairly similar to Islam, that women are lesser and to be subordinate to men...the "weaker" vessel. Indeed, women in Western Civilization were considered chattel property up until about 70 years ago, and even up until the women's rights movements of the 1960's women faced social and legal restrictions based solely upon their gender.

Unfortunately these standards are not followed in many Muslim-majority countries and mainly because much of the population is uneducated and therefore ignorant of Islamic precepts and Sharia compliance. Then again access to education isn't always successful if one looks at the disconnect between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the conduct of a lot of Christians right here in the US. Jesus advocated separation of church and state ("Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's"), putting God first in all things, loving your enemies and praying FOR those who hate you, loving your neighbor as yourself, not seeking revenge for wrongs suffered, and conducting yourself with the utmost honor and integrity in ALL matters be they personal or public. Christians are to treat all people with respect and compassion no matter their personal feelings, and to temper their words and actions with wisdom and restraint.

He often criticized the rich for their abuse of the law in order to benefit themselvesat the expense of others and in particular for their oppression of the poor and powerless, condemned the love of money as the root of all evil, and commanded His followers to shun greed and the love of material possessions. As for bankers...He ran the money-changers out of the Temple and cursed them for their greed and usury, did He not? And in business, He commanded that merchants charge fairly for their goods and services, treating their customers and employees honestly and with the utmost respect.

He commanded rulers to serve the best interests of those under their authority from the greatest to the least, and to ensure that the laws are just and applied equitably to all. Civil and religious authorities alike are to conduct themselves with the utmost integrity, rule wisely, justly, and with compassion and mercy, and to shun using their positions for self-gain or to benefit their cronies. In fact, God's laws as spoken to the people through His prophets down through the ages have been consistant in these principles. There isn't a single government on this planet, our included, that gets within a thousand miles of that measure but they will all be judged by them in the end.

Hey Arlene,

It's ok at Penn state also..Just sayin..

Re:

Please note incest is a mental illness and happens often in Christian homes in the United States, more so in the Bible Belt - Southern States - but then rape is the most committed crime in the US, compared to any other country...you never know, one may be happening right now in your own neighbour.

Wow Hamsque, got any facts to back that up or is it just your prejudice showing?

Hello Allison Shaw, thank you so much for the factual and well-stated revue of Sharia law versus customs. It cannot be emphasized enough that the revelations brought by Mohammed were meant to enlighten polytheistic and barbaric tribes, and had the effect initially of improving the lot of women. Unfortunately, tribal customs and social institutions have skewed practice away from love and respect to power and control, both in Islam and in Christianity. All religions invite human beings to control their own lust, greed and anger, but over time this is usually interpreted as controlling that of others. "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out."

To Allyson Shaw I agree. I could not have said it better and I am not a religous fanatic, just an every day person who beleives in values. The meek shall inherit the earth some day, I hope it will be worth having.

Hey, Big Jeff, he will not be shunned. She will be.

I can't believe six people actually read Allison's entire post. :\
(p.s. ...not judging it b/c i didn't read it. just sayin' - it's long)

danwill - ''they get life, that's good for me'', then you will have in prison raping you! is that good enough for you?

funny max, since I don't plan on going to prison (since I'm not a lawbreaker) I don't have anything to worry about

why, are you afraid for your next visit? your statement certainly implies it.

I would never live in a country that governs itself via Sharia Law. I am not a Muslim. It is a crime not to be a Muslim.

A woman in Afghanistan was given prison term for being raped, by her cousin. Under Sharia law a woman can only get pregnant after her second sexual intercourse. (Yeah right) Since She did get pregnant, she was deemed a promiscuous women and was sent to prison. Her cousin received no prison term. She can only be released from prison if she marries her rapist or spend 12 more years in prison. (Very Sick)

Sharia Law, Legal for a man to throw acid in the face of women; who refuse to marry a him, or who show their face in public (No Burqa).

@Eric-NY you know absolutely nothing about Islam or Sharia law.

It is a crime not to be a Muslim.

-Completely false. Under Sharia law Churches and Synnagogs get equal protection taht mosques get and all other faiths are allowed to be practised. There isnt a single interpretation of Sharia that prohibites nonmuslims.

Under Sharia law a woman can only get pregnant after her second sexual intercourse

-Completely false. Such a statement doesnt exist in the Quran or the hadiths.

12 more years in prison.

-Under true sharia law prision sentences don't exist. Under the true Islamic Sharia, you can hold someone in prision for up to a week and at the end of the week the sentence and punishment needs to be carried out or the person is to be let go.

Legal for a man to throw acid in the face of women

-This is an absolute lie, under Sharia law throwing acid on ANYONE is considered a henious assult and in many sharia countries, such as Iran. The men arrested for doing this had acid thrown on their face as an equal punishment.

who show their face in public (No Burqa).

-Once again an utter lie. In the Quran the angels of God told Abraham to tell his wives to remove their vails, and in the holist place in Islam (Mecca and the Kabaa) it is actually prohibited for women to cover their faces. So please stop reading anti-Islamic websites there isnt a single correct thing about your post.

Justme-

Please note incest is a mental illness and happens often in Christian homes in the United States, more so in the Bible Belt - Southern States - but then rape is the most committed crime in the US, compared to any other country...you never know, one may be happening right now in your own neighbour.

Do YOU have any facts to back that up?

Im not sure if you meant the US commits more rapes per capita than any other country of if rape is the number one crime in the US...

nationmaster(dot)com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

As for the incest, I couldn't find much, all I could find is the first highest rate is Alabama, the second is Alaska, and California is third. So...not really the bible belt.

wiki(dot)answers(dot)com/Q/What_US_state_has_the_third_highest_incest_rate

wiki(dot)answers(dot)com/Q/Which_US_state_has_the_highest_incest_rate

I understand these might not be the most reliable of sources, but this is all the information I can gather. :)

So Justme, I think that was YOUR predjudice showing.

Oops. Sorry Justme, I just realized you were talking to Hamsque. You're right their predjudice is showing!

Yes. Got to wonder what our own pedophile recidivism rate would be with similar sentences.

Similar sentences in the USA ...Really ? Does the term "cruel and unusual punishment' and United States Constitution mean anything to you brutes who want Amercia to sink to the lowest common denominator of barbarism in the world ....

Sure, our emotional, revenge selves would want to beat this guy to death, but what does that make of us in the eyes of God ? Come on people, wake up, we are Americans, and better than many of these ugly comments posted here.

Being whipped 2,000 times for raping ...excuse me... REPEATEDLY raping a child (and your OWN child at that...) is about as far from "cruel and unusual" as it gets!! I have no sympathy for this man, nor do I think his punishment is excessive. If anything, its not enough, but there really is no sentence that would be fitting for this type of heinous act. Who knows, if more of these vile offenders were so reprimanded, and PUBLICLY reprimanded, maybe there would be fewer cases like Sandusky's to report and woman children wouldn't have to live in such fear.

um, Jesse....in the eyes of God and per the Bible if you choose to believe it in its entirety, a rapist is stoned to death. hellooooo. I would prefer public whipping over detaining juvenile delinquents anyday...bare their skinny little butts in public and whip em til they cry in front of all their big tough buddies....yeah they wouldn't be doing that more than once.

Yeah, in America if a rapist knows a judge or a politician (or IS one, as in Kennedys) or has a good lawyer they walk. You're right. Totally different.

Just wondering! Where was God while she was being raped? Children in this civilized country are the victims of barbaric acts of sexual abuse every day, every minute from the rich to the poor. Have you ever seen a child smear his own feces on himself in an attempt to be repulsive so he won't be appealing to his abuser? "Cruel and unusual punishment" by the people that are suppose to protect and nuture - not slither into your bedroom at night and crawl up next to you stealing your innocence, your trust, your life.
There is nothing trivial about what this child has been through. This is a child that has been raped by her father for a very long time. It doesn't matter where she came from - she is a child just like any other child that has been living in a hell that we cannot fathom.

"Have you ever seen a child smear his own feces on himself in an attempt to be repulsive so he won't be appealing to his abuser?"

no....

Sonata, it sounds like you would like to see young men stripped and whipped. Umm... see a therapist.

What's wrong with punishing a pervert that should have his testicles cut off along with the beating?

Sonata sounds kind of like she'd get a perverse pleasure from it. Punishing perverts is fine but getting your kicks from it is sick.

Thoughts: Castrate, emasculate; geld.

What should have been the punishment for their Mohammad?

Saudi justice and Sharia Laws don't apply to all. They apply to only selected once in a way!

Cruel and unusual punishment is being raped...repeatedly...by your father. Once that's occurred and the father has been proven guilty, I'm not sure I'm all that worried about him being lashed. And since he'll be in jail, I'm not sure those lashes have all that much to do with him anyway...my guess it they're being used for the deterrant effect. If they did that in the U.S., I wonder what effect it would have on the crime rate. A public lashing in your own neighborhood, in front of your peers....what would the effect be....I'm guessing it sure wouldn't be the same as going to jail, proving yourself there while having all your needs taken care of....coming back with a tough reputation and picking up right where you left off. Lashing is barbaric yes, but if every lashing prevented 100 other barbaric crimes visited upon innocent people, then what's more barbaric, sparing the one or sparing the 100? I honestly don't know.

I honestly feel the US court system is to lenient on rapist. They should be castrated or be sent to prison for life.

melanie-1839179 - I love it when people blame God for the "free will" of man.. God didn't rape the girl, it was her father.. God was the one whispering in the ear of the Uncle, telling him to help the girl by exposing the father..

I'd take the whole statute against "cruel and unusual" punishment with a grain of salt. People still get the electric chair in the U.S.- a very unusual punishment if I say so myself (I'm more an advocate for the guillotine or helium suffocation; quick, inexpensive, uncomplicated).

One could argue that punishment by it's nature is necessarily cruel, but I wouldn't say that corporal punishment in a public venue is *unusually* cruel. In any case, we need to stop coddling lawbreakers in this country.

"almost" is the key word

Just by one case once in a way, one can't judge the Saudi Justice and Sharia Laws.

Despite these, how is it that Saudi ruler and his huge battalion of princesses keep another battalions of girls and women in their harems including some imported ones?

Hope people recall about a drink and dance party of some with Philippines women.

Road salt (halite) is a better choice. Waaaay more 'invigorating'.

No, no, no......you got to let him heal up so he can experience it all over again. Pass the salt every time, please!

As this happened in their holy city Mecca, he deserved to be sprayed pork meat too!

He will feel every last one of them. I have seen videos of people being caned and it is not pretty.

Agree, sounds like a pretty stern punishment compared to how we treat our rapist. I like the hand chopping for thieves too. If we had that here there would be a lot of people in the downtown areas without hands.

Indeed and we'd all have the stuff we worked so hard to earn

Until we find out the eye witness was on drugs or just plain wrong. Happens all the time.

I guess a 100 million Americans were on drugs while watching the televised news when the thieving thugs were toting the big screen TVs out of the stores in New Orleans after Katrina.

I agree though, if the glove does not fit, then we must acquit.

Jesse G-341147

Similar sentences in the USA ...Really ? Does the term "cruel and unusual punishment' and United States Constitution mean anything to you brutes who want Amercia to sink to the lowest common denominator of barbarism in the world ....

Sure, our emotional, revenge selves would want to beat this guy to death, but what does that make of us in the eyes of God ? Come on people, wake up, we are Americans, and better than many of these ugly comments posted here.

If 'God' is of the type to allow innocent children to be brutalized, raped, and made subject to other types of unspeakable crimes, what does that make 'God' in the eye of man? What can he be called but a sadist? What but a sick mind would worship a sadistic idol?

Sertorious you said:

If 'God' is of the type to allow innocent children to be brutalized, raped, and made subject to other types of unspeakable crimes, what does that make 'God' in the eye of man? What can he be called but a sadist? What but a sick mind would worship a sadistic idol?

As Laulaus said:

I love it when people blame God for the "free will" of man.. God didn't rape the girl, it was her father.. God was the one whispering in the ear of the Uncle, telling him to help the girl by exposing the father..

You know I thought the same thing you said after what happened to me..."If there is a God, he's an ******* for letting this monster do this to me". Then his step daughter (My best friend) came out and admitted to everything that happened to her. I didn't make my peace with God until my boyfriend told me "God let this happen to you because he knew you were the only one strong enough to say something about it. You already saved (My friend), who knows who else you've helped?".

When it comes to God and the evils of the world, I guess it's about perspective really.

I personally would be fine seeing him shredded. You sound like you feel like there should be empathy for an incestuous abuser of children and females? Maybe hitting a little too close to home for you or what? WHY would you have a problem with punishing a rapist????

.......crickets..........

I feel no sympathy for him and his 2080 lashes. I wonder how the damage inflicted by 1 lash compares to the damage inflicted by 1 rape by a man who is supposed to love and protect you.

Now, I personally wouldn't have sentenced him to lashes and prison, I think a bullet through the brain would be more sensible. There's no point in trying to rehabilitate a child molester, their recidivism rate is like 96%. Why not just go for the justice/vengeance? Put down a sick animal, and stop it from breathing everyone else's air.

Why not just go for the justice/vengeance?

because vengeance is not "justice" it is barbarism

personally, I would like to see something like the conditioning in the movie "clockwork orange", if the offender even so much as thinks about having sex with a minor, he becomes debilitatingly and uncontrollably sick

Castration.

I can't understand why some people confuse PUNISHMENT for vengence?

because that's all punishment is,same for justice. but without a consequence for someones actions people would do anything they want and there would be chaos. religion was an attempt at fixing this but it backfired and ended up causing more harm than good. I'm pretty sure you can come to your own conclusions.

I'm pretty sure that this is the same ole rehabilitation vs retribution debate that has been going on for centuries. Since child molesters are not good at the rehabilitation thing, next choice is retribution. I vote for the later.

Well the thing is, we are not animals. We are not suposed to torment. So when we punish a person for going out of the law, the last thing we should do, is act like a criminal.

Yes it is nice to think about killing and tormenting a rapist, but doing so would make us no better. We are supose to be better than those we punish.

when the price isn't worth it anymore people will be way more cautious about what they do. the price for ruining an innocent should be death, public torture, humiliation,punishment is meant to deter other who saw what could be themselves as a deterrent, human life used to have value but honestly there's now 7 billion on earth now and we need to really get rid of those with obviously shallow gene pools, especially since if they reproduce there's a very high chance their offspring will be an exact same way and the problems they had with it. the only way to break the cycle is to prevent reproduction of those with obvious issues. this is the same reason peopole made it illegal for mentally handicapped to reproduce, well that and the fact they are just like a little kid.

well hell scarlet, since you are so hot to bring back eugenics, lets include anyone that has ANY kind of inheritable genetic disorder. we can also throw in people of the wrong skin color, wrong religion, unpopular political views....

you took what i said out of context plus if you did things that way you would hinder future improvements. when what you do hurts others or can hurt another's future whether created by you or someone else someone needs to make it stop. if something is broken it needs fixed, if something is proved to be more effective it should be implemented, if something makes everything else more clear and focused for true improvement... that's progress at its true level.

till we are more evolved in the true sence of the word we need pain to function, there needs to be a painfull lesson to teach others to learn.

you took what i said out of context plus if you did things that way you would hinder future improvements

well gee, how would removing all those genetic defects hinder future improvements?

when what you do hurts others or can hurt another's future whether created by you or someone else someone needs to make it stop.

uh huh, I think they have a pill for that.

if something is broken it needs fixed,

you mean like your English?

if something makes everything else more clear and focused for true improvement... that's progress at its true level.

"clear and focused", got it. hey, they make a pill for that one too.

evolution is a percentage of genetic change over time, sometimes things need to break to be fixed just like bones that healed crooked being re broken to properly heal. but sometimes things need to be stopped because they are a dominant trait and will continue, just like the appendix a lot of people have removed that serves no purpose. as for the pill comment pills are only till you die and aren't permanent(yet). as for broken English i don't see a valid point the ... is used to make a pause and most people i know use it for this reason, if that comment was trying to be smart it failed and if it was meant to be a personal attack you are breaking forum policy, in due time all will be revealed. please stick to the topic.

What will happen to her? If she survives--they have a lot of "accidents" in the kitchen--she will be basically a servant kept in the home behind locked doors. She will likely never marry, unless there is a very, very considerable dowry. She will be shunned as well. She is seen as damaged goods and worthless. She may commit suicide rather than face the shame and will be encouraged to do so. If a female gets raped under Sharia Law, she is not considered a victim unless she was alone and unable to call for help--regardless of the threat. If it happened in a city, she automatically is thought to have consented because she should have died rather than allow herself to be raped. You can look it up on the web, but that is their thinking regarding the issue according to Sharia Law.

Yes, and it very well could. Who would do such a thing? Generally, her mother if her father was in jail.

Actually that is not always required, it depends on the circumstances. Perhaps because his own brother alerted the police to what he was doing, and/or because it was his own daughter, or for other reasons not reported here.

Thanks K. Learn something new every day, but forget two things each day. So even though you need 4 witnesses, by Surah 24:4 and 24:13 and Bukhari 5:59:462 to impose Hud. An Islamic Judge can use Taazar and give out a less sentence such as 2080 lashes. Good thing they didn't have Taazar in Aisha time since there were only 3 witnesses.

Mac-101:

Setting up straw-men in your hate and troll?

-----------------------------

K-3819406

Actually that is not always required, it depends on the circumstances. Perhaps because his own brother alerted the police to what he was doing, and/or because it was his own daughter, or for other reasons not reported here.

Well reasoned, educated, and knowledgable counter answer to that troll.

excellent point Mac-101

Yoo

excellent point Mac-101

False premise. How can a straw-man logic fault be "excellent point"?

So MR Ham, what was the Straw Man? I truly didn't know that an Islamic Judge could use the countries laws in a TRUE Islamic Paradise instead of relyin completely on Sharia. So once again, what was the False Premise? And I did think that Saudi Arabia was completely Sunni Sharia compliant, just as Iran is completely Shia Sharia compliant.

Sadly, it doesn't. What it does is make people more likely to commit other crimes (like murder) in order to cover their tracks.

And there is always the possibility that certain pervs like Sandusky might find the prospect of being whipped somewhat enticing.

Unfortunately, punishment is not a deterrent. The common cliche is "everybody in here (prison) is innocent." This is incorrect. The correct observation is "everybody in here is too smart to get caught."

The way that punishment acts as a deterrent is when the offender learns both of two things: 1) he doesn't like the punishment and 2) he is not too smart to get caught. Without learning both, he will reoffend. Those that haven't yet been caught still think they are to smart to get caught even if the other guy wasn't that smart ... after all "I'm smarter than he is" ... so the other guy's punishment is not a deterrent for him.

DvTHex is correct. For many pedophiles or sex offenders rehabilitation fails eventually.

For example:

Overall, follow-up studies typically find sexual recidivism rates of
10%-15% after five years, 20% after 10 years, and 30%-40% after 20 years
(see, Hanson, Morton, & Harris, 2003).

However, these numbers are conservative because not all offences are detected.

I found this here if anyone wants to read the full report.

Actually, punishment does often work as a deterrent for first time offenders that haven't committed sex offenses. Whether it does or does not is not really the issue. Once they have committed such a crime, these people owe a debt to society for breaking societal norms. Without these norms, we would all live in (more) chaos. Retribution has been given a bad rap. There is a time and a place for it.

@Colorblind - You did say for offenders that have not committed sex offenses, right? Because if you'll notice the numbers I posted are recidivism rates for sex offenders. That means they have already been convicted of a sex crime once, and these numbers represent the chance they they will commit a sex crime again.

Lashing can be fatal, but they're spreading it out over 13 years. Do it all at once, he's dead well before he gets all the lashes.

And the problem with that is?

The problem is they're not doing them all at once.

The British Royal Navy knows about lashing and would seldom exceed 20 lashes. By 50 lashes an average size man would lose consciousness and 100 lashes generally would kill a man.

The problem wit all the lashes at once is that he does not suffer enough. There is a difference between suffering and give up and die. This way he has more suffering to look forward to. Maybe they'll save the last 125 lashes for his last day in prison. He is just about ready to get out. He's excited. But instead, he's good as dead.

Sweet.

Yeah, but all at once = one less sh!tstain on planet Earth. I can live with that. Literally flail the flesh from his bones, and put that mess on TV. Let his death serve a purpose, since his life didn't.

LB-3426829

...It does make me worry the girl will be the victim of an honor killing. What a truly messed up concept.

Honor killing has nothing to do with Islam. Should have been obvious from this article since the Uncle is aggressively protective of the girl. Further, any kind of killing is punishable by death under Islamic Law. This 'honor-killing' is a well contrived demonizing myth, probably has pagan tribal and Hindu roots - nothing to do with Islam.

The Islamophobes have made big inroads into the western mind with this myth, specially among the uneducated, gullible and weak-minded, with this rumor - many postings here in NewsVine reflect this vulnerability and feeble mindedness. There is no truth to it in Shariah Law...

Hamzsque el sid313

It would be great if Muslims read the Koran and forgot about Hadithes and other Hiram the Koran codemns.

Then you should explain Sharia law to Muslims. It's not Pagans or Hindus that are murdering their own children.

Yoo

Hamzsque el sid313

It would be great if Muslims read the Koran and forgot about Hadithes and other Hiram the Koran codemns.

Hadithes is simply human gossip: 'He said/She said'. About as authentic as the Holy Bible, may be even less.

The Noble Koran is the Word of Allah. Next to it the various Hadithes are rubbish! The Noble Koran is protected by Allah with an inherent mathematical 'check-sum' control algorithm that defies any intrusion and manipulation by Islamophobes - attempts have been made through the centuries. [Incidentally, similar 'logic packs' are utilized by modern data transmission systems to authenticate and partition internet data streams/messages].

The Hadithes is vulnerable to human intervention, same as the Bible has been, still is. For example to get at the words and teachings of Noble Jesus, destroyed by the Pauline Church, scholars have had to apply mathematical 'Set and Sub-set' Analysis to the Gospels of Mark and Matthew to extract a sense of the words of Jesus.

Gospel according to John is problematic. The Gospels of James and of Mary Magdalene(Mostly destroyed by time/Church) do throw some consistent light on the Noble teachings of Jesus - I would have cherished reading the Gospel of Jesus itself. But the Church got to it first and destroyed it and roasted alive the last of the true Jesus-Christians along with all their literature!

But the Noble Koran is the ultimate good will gift to mankind - is eternally protected. If all its copies were destroyed/burnt by the Christians today, it will still be alive in the memories of Muslims, millions of whom have the whole of it by heart, and almost all Muslims have parts of it in their minds and recite it every day...it can be put together like no other book ever can.

If all the Bibles were lost it could not be put togather again - NEVER...there is not a single Christian in the world who loves and honors the Bible enough to learn it by heart, NOT one!

A challenge: For every Christian who can recite the Bible from memory, if ever...there will be a million Muslims and more who will readily recite the Koran - from any random point: Sura, verse, or word!

Allah has said in the Noble Koran: "I have made the Koran easy to remember, will you remember it". Muslims in the millions, including children, have responded with "Laback Laback" YES, yes, we will. And they do!

Hamzsque

Thanks for the religious criticism. In your words, I can see you going terrorist at any time.

Ham...It is not a myth. It happens and it happens frequently. I have studied this issue and it is very real. Maybe, it doesn't have anything to do with Islam--which I highly doubt--but it certainly has to do with a patriarchal society and the norms of that society. Why would you make such a truthless statement? Ever get your head out of the sand? Too much around, huh? It's hard to see the truth when you choose to be blind. Of course he was very "protective" of the girl. Typical incest behavior. He wanted her for himself.

Ham,

Based on your statements, muslim people are the wisest people on the earth because so many memorize the koran. Apparently this wisdom is not either believed or it is misunderstood by virtually all who study it. For some time now, the majority of the ongoing wars or conflicts are based on the spread of some type of muslim belief. A few misguided Christians who act on their own behalf do not even come close to the ongoing murders, stonings, be-headings,and human rights violations that occur regularly throughout the muslim world. Pick a conflict anywhere on this planet, most have some connection with the muslim religion. Christians who may or may not memorize the Bilble at least know what is right and what is wrong. Christians do not seek out other religious people to kill much like the infidels that must be destroyed in your so called peaceful koran. If the koran is as peaceful as muslims say, then why don't these muslims speak out against shari law and all other mulim practices that go on every day in the middle east. This is why Christians are concearned about the western migration of muslim. The muslims in the United States are not speaking out collectively against human rights violations in the middle east so Christians are worried about this viral-like spread of this plague to our country. The United States has its problems but none are comparable to what is happening in the middle east every day!!

They never said what part of the body gets lashed. I say "Whack His Pee Pee" Sorry, the old Cheech and Chong just came right out of me.

hear hear....And Zapper, I have repeatedly offered my four horses tied on each arm and leg of a rapist or murderer, and I would personally scare them myself to see 'em run. Kind of freaks me out that there's guys like our Mark on here who think we're being too rough on the little bastard. Creepy.

Those penalties don't change behavior. In fact, they make people more likely to engage in it for kicks. (Witness our dear boy who wants to watch people be whipped and screaming.)

2,080 lashes over 13 years. Then cut him like a bull and make him eat his rocky mountain oysters. He'll never rape again.

I agree, the u.s. justice is to soft!!! if it wasn't so liberal these people in the u,s. would not be committing so much crime

Yeah, they really have a warped since of what is the greater of these evils. In many instances and stories the young girls or women are 'blamed' for the man having fallen to their deceptive charms. The man is rarely, fully blamed for any sexual misconduct. Is it not in some Islamic countries that a man may 'rent a wife' for sexual copulation: in other words, prostitution within their 'sharia' law. Again, they have a lot of things backward and I sincerely feel for this young girl who even in our own society with counseling, intervention and understanding would be regarded with pity and or disgrace (even when it would not be said). In Islam, she is less than a castaway, she is a pariah, an outcast, an untouchable.

God bless her and I truly hope the man suffers greatly and I doubt he survives more than 3, 4, or 5 of these lashings.

Typically the tool of a rapist is his mind.

Anyone who feels sorry for this guy, must never have been a victim, especially if that person is a woman. We need harsher punishment in this country, prison was ment for punishment, not R&R; Relax and Rehabilitate. If we punished them severely enough, we wouldn't have so many repeat offenders.

Pohaden...Wish it were true, but, sadly it is not. Grooming rapist continue to rape. Violent rapist continue to rape--even if you cut off their penises. Violent rapist will rape by instrumentation. It is the fantasy that compels the violent offender,not the act. Grooming rapist just tend to get better at avoiding detection.

Because rape is not about sex. Not completely, anyway. It's about having control and power over someone. Sex is the method, not the motive in most cases.

Bill Clinton did NOT rape his daughter @!$%# for brains.