Hey, do not generalize all Arabs and Muslims that way! This is just one isolated case and is not indicative of the culture and values of all Muslims. No, they do not abuse women and teach hate and put martyrdom on a pedestal as the greatest of honors. There are many Muslim countries that enjoy humanistic values - like uhm.. ok never mind lol

Al718

my experience (as a visitor) tells me the UAE is one country you might have mentioned...amazing place...& they stay out of the limelight...probably because they can

@Chicago Mario: I think you misunderstood the culture. In order for her not to be ashamed, she decided to marry her rapist, since there's no one else will marry her knowing she was raped. She chose that path, it doesn't mean that everyone should do the same.

This culture not only in Arab/Muslim world, it is still there in the world where the people kept their old culture. These people only get to marry once in their life time. It's not like in US where one can marry and divorce in matter of days or less.

^Al718 = WIN!

Sense, it's possible you are the one who may have misunderstood. From the original news articles regarding this story, it was indicated, more than once, that this poor woman didn't willingly choose to marry her rapist because no one else would marry her, but because the Afghan court told her that that course of action would be the only way she would be released from jail. It then became a matter of either marrying her rapist, even though she stated she couldn't stand to look at him, or serve 12 years in jail.

Agreed. Sounds like a really awesome culture don't you think? Only in the middle east could one consider rape having sex out of wedlock.

Sense-128... Why should she be ashamed that some worthless man victimized her? You say she can only marry once, which isn't true, but the men, rutting pigs that they are, are allowed to have as many "wives" as they want. It's a disgusting culture that makes women less than the dogs in the street. It may have worked a few hundred years ago, but the world has grown up and is no longer stuck in the dark ages. What it shows is that the men are cowards and afraid their women will show them up for the worthless people they actually are.

Chicago Mario - What a disgusting culture the Arab/Muslim world is!

I suggest you read Deuteronomy 22:28-29.......forcing women to marry their rapists is a biblical value, which is where some Islamic cultures get that nonsense from.

Jeezz, Al718. For a minute there I thought you were serious...

Why did Allah have to put all the oil under these animals. That really sucks.

Al718....."Hey, do not generalize all Arabs and Muslims that way! This is just one isolated case and is not indicative of the culture and values of all Muslims."

Time to get out from under that rock. I do hope your comments were sarcastic in nature.....but.....

A quick Internet search on this issue will reveal your statement is TOTALLY wrong and fabricated from your basement dwelling. But what the heck, I think you may be able to search the issue yourself however that might be a significant challenge for you.

it s not Arab muslim culture world this is... You have to understand that the new Afghan Gov. is corrupted, they have no respect for Islam laws. Yes they call themselves Muslims but they dont go by Islam real law..

When I first heard about this women, I was sad and angry at the Gov. and decided to pray for her and Allah / God helped her be free. Without God! what would we do? God loves justice and thank to God that this women is free today.

in US we have many Chritnans Jewish Etc.. WHO ARE CORRUPTED JUST LIKE THEM AND EVEN WORSE! BUT OF COURSE WE CANNOT BE THE JUDGE OF OURSELVES.

Al....it appears your going to have to start your future posts with the sarcasm so that those lacking reading comprehension can understand your position immediately! lol I however enjoyed your clever post. Thanks for the laugh. But I know some Muslims here in the US and they are very nice, great people who treat their daughter in law (who is INDIAN) like a queen and were also very nice to me (a white girl). SO not all Muslims suck. :) Ya'll play nice now..

Uh huh. As usual, always blame it on Islam. I agree with everything Maxeemus said. Open your eyes to the truth people. Media is propaganda, you know.

Skrekk is unfortunately guilty of (as are at least 90% of the self-proclaimed Christians in this world) of misquoting and completely misunderstanding the scripture he tried to quote. Skrekk, please read Deut 22:23 (if a girl is raped and does not 'scream" --report it-- they are both stoned to death, he for raping and she for not reporting it) or better yet Deut 22:25, where if he rapes a woman "in a field" (where no one could hear her if she DID try to "scream" --report it---) he is to be killed, 'and to the girl you must do nothing. the girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case'. In other words, he has destroyed her life and must pay the ultimate cost just as if he killed her outright. It does not give him the option of marrying her and just going on with his life. The Scripture you are misinterpreting (hopefully in honest error) states that if a girl is seized and lays down with the man (NO mention of force mind you) THEN she must become his wife due to the fact that he has disgraced her. And he will not be allowed to divorce her all his days. You are confusing what the Bible terms as "lying down together" with being forcibly raped, which is the case here.

Ido, if you cannot understand tongue-in-cheek sarcasm, I suggest you take a moment and reflect on your humorless life.

Back to you, Skrekk, you're attacking a book and belief you know absolutely know nothing about. It displays painful ignorance on your part. In case you care.

@muslim girl, they only reason you are even allowed to drive and have an opinion you can voice publicly, is because you live over here. Any form of rudimentary research will supply you with numerous exsamples of the brutalitly and inhumane treatment of women in muslim countries. I'm not saying fundamental christians are any better, but at least the christian based countries have evolved enough were the small number of fundamentals that still denie women basic rights are no longer in charge (mostly) Sticking your head in the sand because you live in europe or america and you are allowed the same respect and rights as a man is not smart. If you would be forced to live under a true muslim goverment you might not have even been accorded the privilige of learning to read and write. Open your eyes and see, then go and try to fix your religion were it has some respect for others and does not feel the need to violently enforce their opinions and religion on others.

ldo

Al718....."Hey, do not generalize all Arabs and Muslims that way! This is just one isolated case and is not indicative of the culture and values of all Muslims."

_____________________________________________________

Yes, don't forget that Muslims chop off hands and heads, whip women until they are dead, and kill their own wives and daughters when they disobey. There is a lot more to this Muslim culture and values than what is listed here; and they want to place a Mosque on every street corner in the USA.

Muslim Girl-3260935

Uh huh. As usual, always blame it on Islam. I agree with everything Maxeemus said. Open your eyes to the truth people. Media is propaganda, you know.

______________________________________________

I think we can see the truth..., does anyone remember Daniel Pearl?

Maxeemas

it s not Arab muslim culture world this is... You have to understand that the new Afghan Gov. is corrupted, they have no respect for Islam laws. Yes they call themselves Muslims but they dont go by Islam real law..

____________________________________________

The Muslims have been doing this since their inception, and nothing has changed over the past 10 (ten) years. I certainly haven't heard an outcry from the Muslim community, quite the opposite actually; and they want to have the freedom to practice their religion here in the USA as they see fit, outside of our laws.

@ Ido & Wade.. it appears to me you are both infidels to sarcasm.. 100 lashes for the both of you!!!

Non-Sense-1282666

This culture not only in Arab/Muslim world, it is still there in the world where the people kept their old culture. These people only get to marry once in their life time. It's not like in US where one can marry and divorce in matter of days or less.

___________________________

Are you really trying to defend this barbaric culture, and condemn the USA in the process? Really!? You need to move to the Middle East and live the dream, because we don't need people like you here voting; you'll love it there I'm sure.

While this is a very sad statement on the laws of that country, and horrifying for this woman (we should offer her asylum in the US), does Jerry Sandusky ring a bell? The US isn't free of horrifying crimes either. Its unfortunately a human condition, but their laws do nothing to protect these women, at least the US has that.

Jan, you are condemning a man before he sets foot in a courtroom.... Not much better than over there.

Last time I checked, I don't put people in prison, I give him his right for a trial. However given two separate eye witnesses saw him raping little boys, its far different than allowing a rapist to go free while you send his victim to prison for 12 years.

In my opinion, wherever patriarchy exist, women can be and often are are abused. This is because in patriarchy, rights and access to wealth are not equally available to both genders. Ironically, all the major religions seek, in their purest form, to redress this inequality, BUT the teachings of the great ones are perverted by the patriarchy to maintain the status quo ante in favor of male power. Christianity and the culture of the West is a bit further on than Islam and the cultures of the Islamic nation states, but these advances in the West are hard won, and we still have back-sliding. Take for example in the West regarding rape, that women are often thought to be "asking for it" by wearing revealing clothes, and that rapists often contend that they didn't think the women really meant "no" when they said "no." (And don't forget rohypnol.) This is not that much better than having women wear burkhas, so as not to tempt men. In fact, I have heard fundamentalist Christian men claim that women can "stumble" men by being alluring. What does this mean? The culture of patriarchy, whether in Islam or in the West, makes women responsible for male lust.

Sonata's Adela - Skrekk is unfortunately guilty of (as are at least 90% of the self-proclaimed Christians in this world) of misquoting and completely misunderstanding the scripture he tried to quote. Skrekk, please read Deut 22:23 (if a girl is raped and does not 'scream" --report it-- they are both stoned to death, he for raping and she for not reporting it) or better yet Deut 22:25, where if he rapes a woman "in a field" (where no one could hear her if she DID try to "scream" --report it---) he is to be killed, 'and to the girl you must do nothing. the girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case'.

So if the rape victim doesn't scream she should be stoned to death? What if the rapist threatened to kill her if she screamed?

Sounds like typical biblical values which a few Islamic cultures have adopted (like stoning).

The Scripture you are misinterpreting (hopefully in honest error) states that if a girl is seized and lays down with the man (NO mention of force mind you) THEN she must become his wife due to the fact that he has disgraced her.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 in the NIV bible refers to rape, and that the victim must marry her rapist. You must be using the KJV bible.

We've been there 10 (ten) years, and all they have done during that time is bring more of that stuff over here; Muslims are killing their own wives and daughters here when the disobey their husband and master, and they are trying to place a Mosque on every corner of this country. Is it the treatment of women that liberals love most about Muslims, or the fact that they execute people who do not share their beliefs?

Wake up, I have yet to hear they are wanting to place a Mosque in the area I live, so that throws your theory out. And why make a political statement, I know a many "Liberals" who are against domestic violence. You sir just ramble like an idiot.

obviously for you it is the latter...

actually it is taken from the old testament in the Bible, most of the Koran is taken from the Hebrew Bible writings, stoning, etc., it is just that these lunatics still want to live at 4000 B.C.; if we just leave them alone, they will kill each other off, and the world will be a much better place.

I still have no clue why anyone believes anything that is written in a bible or koran as truth. If there was a god, she wouldn't have been raped in the first place. And none of that working in mysterious ways nonsense. This was a crime of opportunity by her cousins husband. There was no god or devil that made him do it, and no god that allowed her to get raped, have a court imprison her, or forcing her to marry the guy. The church and bible is all a big scam used to keep the weak minded in line.

Very true BP and I agree with you saxon.

saxon -

What a simplistic view of the situation, and a childish suggested solution.

Have you ever stopped to consider that the majority of the Afghan people live the way they do because they have had no other options? ...no exposure to other ways of thought?

Do you think that everyone in the world is born with the same options as we do in the West?

Do you honestly believe that every Afghani man, woman, and child deserves to die a violent death?

Your attitude is every bit as barbaric as you claim the Afghan people's to be.

A terrible shame that the god of Abraham forgot to prohibit rape........or pedophilia, slavery and genocide.

You have to admit that there is something fundamentally wrong with the ruling class with regard to their intelligence to consider rape to be sex out of wedlock. While I agree that not all people are of like mind in any culture or religion, the muslim world in general has some seriously twisted ideals....not the least being the view that women are property and somehow less valuable than men and thus deserve less repsect....seriously....rape...sex out of wedlock?!! Really? How on earth has Islam survived through the centuries with a belief system like that? I do not believe that anyone deserves a violent and untimely death but it seems as though nothing other than that could ever be expected for a lot of the populations of the muslim world when something like rape can be turned around on the victim and people actually believe that the victim should be stoned to death for having sex out of wedlock?

if we just leave them alone, they will kill each other off

Unfortunately, Saxon, I don't think it will be that simple. If Iran gets nukes then they will start being arrogant jack-asses...with nukes. The nukes being the only new part of that description.

Zen, "Arab Spring" mean anything to you? A hint: It's not a soap.

Sometimes even the backwards, superstitious Arabs get fed up with letting other Islamist, Arab men rape their daughters and sons. Those Arabs rise up to over throw their dictators as in Egypt and elsewhere.

@ Saxon and BP, it seems like the Bible needs a serious update or needs to be rewritten completely and why isn't anyway ( actually i'm not sure of this, i'm just assuming that no one continues to write or correct the bible )

@ Cub T.

This has nothing to do with Islam. Its the corrupt government. Tell me where in the Quran it says that women should be punished if they're raped?

Dogma Bites -

Your "Arab Spring" comment doesn't make a lot of sense in reference to what I posted. The "Arab Spring" movements have generally used non-violent demonstrations to elicit governmental change. Violence has usually followed from the aggressive actions of an embedded regime's military. I do not oppose the use of deadly force when it is necessary for self-defense (but one should always use the least amount of violence necessary).

It is important that we understand that Afghanistan is not Egypt. Egypt is a modern country.

What percentage of the Egyptian population do you think owns a cell phone, and how do you think that would compare to a country like Afghanistan?

Education is the key. Do you think it is a coincidence that so many revolutions have been led by students?

Every country that has islamic law punishes the woman for rapes (and a multitude of other "sins" she has no power to prevent if they are done to her) All these islamic countries are run by men proclaiming to be good muslims and by their religious leaders. So in fact you are saying that every muslim goverment must be corrupt because they let these grave injustices against women and girl children continue. They all reference the quran while they do so, and their religious leaders back them up. So in your opinion all these leaders and religious leaders of all these muslim countries are misstaken and read the wrong thing in the quran. That is an awfull lot of misstakes. There is not one muslim country out there that gives the same rights to a female as they do to a male, not one! They do not have the same rights to education, to inheritance/own property, not to healthcare ('cause no man can touch/see them and women can not get the education to become doctors unless THEY LEAVE) to make decisions for and by themselfs, to own their bodies etc. Grow up you can have your religion and love it , however you can not whitewash the evil done in its name. Fix what is wrong with it instead of mindlessly defending the wrongs ( the catholics are forcing their religions leaders to face their wrongs)

Muslim Girl-3260935

@ Cub T.

This has nothing to do with Islam. Its the corrupt government. Tell me where in the Quran it says that women should be punished if they're raped?

______________________________________

Go live in Mecca, enjoy Islam, we don't want you or Muslims here.

Muslim Girl, I find it very disturbing that we alleged infidels show far more concern for the welfare of women in the middle east than you do. Your only concern is for the appearance of the religion. You should be ashamed of yourself, did it occur to you why she would rather marry her rapist than stay in prison? Could it be that the treatment is worse and more savage in prison? Seriously rape is a crime about violence and power, not sex. You are one screwed up individual and I really hope you don't live in the US.

Wake up, from reading your post are you over the age of 14?

Arab Spring? Well guess what, Egypt is electing the Muslim Brotherhood. They are extremists who are considered moderates in a country where people can get way more extreme than they are.

WeAllHaveOpinions

Wake up, from reading your post are you over the age of 14?

___________________________________

I've been to Saudi Arabia, how about you? I think that you would like it there; they are particularly fond of new ideas and opinions.

Oh yes, Saudi Arabia is at the very cutting edge of science, culture, and human rights.

That was sarcasm, for the win.

Are you suggesting that we should just leave women to be abused and the culture to remain backward? It will take time for this culture to move forward but the seeds have been planted.

It is unfortunate that they do not even follow their own rules - even if the woman had committed adultery, what a about the man? - he should have been jailed (or stoned) for adultery himself. But they practice a bastardized version of their own religion. Not that women have a lot of rights in the Qur'an (they don't).

You are right in that they don't follow their own religion, they twist it to say whatever they want. Have you ever read the Qur'an though? Do you have the knowledge and wisdom to interpret it? I completely agree that many of the practices in the Middle East are very, very wrong, but this is not true of all Muslims, nor has it always been true. In fact, Muslim women had equal rights to men long before women in the western world, this is a historical fact. Unfortunately conflicting views, many of which can be traced back to disagreements after the death of Prophet Muhammad, radically reversed this in many cases and resulted in different Muslim religions and cultures, eventually resulting in the conflicts and lacking rights that are seen today. But even today, not all Muslim religions are oppressive, it's just that we hear the most about the ones that are.

Eventually this oppression will disappear, it is inevitable. I just hope that it happens sooner rather than later. What happened to this woman was very wrong, and I am glad that she was released, though the condition of her release is ridiculous and wrong. The western world should increase pressure on governments to do the right thing in cases like these.

Name one country in the Middle East that is predominantly Muslim where women are treated as you suggest. Quit enabling this type of behavior. If all Muslims aren't for it then they need to step up and stop it. Not all Germans were Nazis but we didn't enable them!

Jordan has an American Queen Mother......read the autobiography of Queen Noor. Also, my grandparents immigrated from Lebanon, which was the "Paris" of the middle east until it was torn apart by invasion.

Actually that country is ripe for being taken over. Just go in there and take it...it NEEDS to be taken...right now!

Eventually this oppression will disappear, it is inevitable.

No it isn't inevitable, Rikki. But even if the oppression would eventually disappear, in how long? How many innocent people have to be tortured, killed or commit suicide? If those berserker, nut-jobs get nukes, how many nations will be razed and wars started because of them? Is it better to bomb Iran's nuke plants before or after they get a bomb and start threatening everyone?

Just a quick bit about Islamic "juricprudence". In order for sexual relations of any kind to be considered rape, there must be two male Muslim witnesses to it. Otherwise, it is considered sex out of wedlock.

Lookitup.

True dat,pizzedoff but that occured quite some time ago... several hundred years ago. We’ve learned a few things since then, being civilized, human rights, etc.. Just saying...

I presume you're referring to the Salem trials in 1692. There were no burnings, those tried were hanged. Yes, it was a tragic event, but we have advanced in the last 300+ years.

An argument could probably be made that the Afghanis have too -- she could have been stoned to death for her 'adultery' instead of being forced to marry her rapist.

What happened to this woman has nothing to with being a savage, backwards, uncivilized country. It is there culture. They choose to be that way, act that way, dress, etc. It has nothing to do with a society being less advanced or evolved. It's no different than the amish who choose to live in a less modern world.

Terelyn - Yes, it was a tragic event, but we have advanced in the last 300+ years.

Until rather recently in America a husband could freely rape his wife without fear of legal consequence.

...and where does that leave her daughter then?

Violent revenge fantasies are childish, and serve no constructive purpose. The world is not made a better place by adding more pain and suffering to it.

Only education, and compassion, can positively transform a place like Afghanistan.

Not in the same house with her mother's rapist.

A young widow could remarry, if she chose. She wouldn't be trapped with a man she can't even bear to look at. He really needs to have an...unfortunate accident.

Gulnaz likely will spend the rest of her life (unless she is fortunate enough to get out of Afghanistan) being miserable, because she's been raised/trained/conditioned to accept her lot in it and obey the men in her world. Sad for her.

Spoken like a stong and proud American!

Mainstream Muslims are spineless and will never speak up.

great post Bill..., great post. All of these Muslims and Liberals that are downplaying this should instead be leading the fight against mistreatment of people that live under these conditions. They are with us or against us, and if they are with us they should be leading the fight, extolling US values and principles, and not cowering in the corner; so lead the fight Muslims, and we will support and defend you all the way. If you can not stand up to other Muslims, you are part of the problem.

Hear hear, Wake up! But, if they do not lead the fight, if they allow evil to triumph over them, what then?

LOL!!!

Have History degree n my professor taught us all about middle east, Islam's so called prophet was a fake 1st old testament taught that God's last messanger would be raised jewish which muhammed wasnt 2nd he wasnt born in the right country. 3rd he claimed he heard bells/whistles in his head and other descriptions suggestion he had some kind of mental disorder if he was alive today n living in western world he'd be given meds or even in a mental hospital. 4th he claimed at end of his life that God told him to go pray in a cemetery then he gets sick and dies. Probably a flu, or cold. Wasnt too brite he never told his followers how and whom should take over as leader after his death.

Um, Jesus is also a prophet in the Islam religion. Look it up. If you insult all Muslim religious figures, you are also insulting Jesus.

Marc, if I am understanding you, are you quoting the Bible to say that a different religion is wrong? You can not quote a religous text of one faith to prove the other faith is wrong because then every faith can be proved wrong with that method. If you look at any religious text (including the Bible), much of the experiences by the prophets could be explained away by insanity. Almost all hear voices in their heads, see things that no one else can, and tell stories of the impossible. Like you said, in the modern world, they would be given meds or belong in a mental hospital. Not to say that prophets in all religions are wrong, but I am just saying that it does not prove anything.

Before you jump to conclusions... no, I am not Muslim

Marc-3325608 -

How can you claim to have an history degree, and yet write so poorly? You should demand a refund on your tuition.

You appear to be attempting to use logic to dispel the legitimacy of Islam, while inferring the legitimacy of Christianity. If so, you are amazingly oblivious.

If you (or anyone) holds to the superstitious beliefs found in religion, then you have given up any right to use logic in an argument. Any attempt to do so immediately invalidates what you have to say, and opens you to ridicule.

Sounds like mormonism...

she does have an American lawyer & may have options other than fleeing her counrty (while the legal system makes change happen)...I live in hope for this woman & her daughter....

I would totally support allowing this woman to immigrate to the United States so that she can enjoy TRUE freedom!

If she stays in Afghanistan, her life and the choices available to her will always be overshadowed by her having been a victim of this rape. She will only continue to be a victim there. Let her begin life anew here!

how about Muslims leading this fight?, so far they have been silent and hiding in the corner.

Killing savages doesn't make one civilized, or just. It makes one a savage in kind.

I dont see him saying that he was wanting to kill them....

Ambrosia Brown -

LittlestEmperor does appear to be responding to an earlier post of mine (#22), and to take an opposing view to my condemnation of violence, and hate speech.

However, I never stated that he did, personally, want to kill anyone.

My point remains. It doesn't matter if we think that the people that perpetrate these injustices are savages, or not. It is wrong to call for their torture, or deaths.

for the record, i don't want to kill anyone. Even when my wife wants me to take care of a spider in the house, it is exiled to the outside, I don't kill it. Nor do I eat meat. I don't call for death, but I simply think that a society that jails a women who was raped by her relative...then forced to chose between prison and marrying her assulter, is a strong and clear indication of a savage society.

Also, consider that Saudi Arabia recently beheaded a woman for the charge of sorcery. Tell me that is acceptable?

LittlestEmperor -

I am pleased to read that you are not a person that condones violence. Such attitudes seem to be a rarity on the internet.

Beheading a woman for the alleged practice of magic is doubly horrifying. It requires an unlearned, superstitious mind to believe that magic is any sort of threat (since such things are provably unreal), and it requires a sadistic demeanor to arbitrarily take another's life.

Such ignorance and violence are the direct results of religion and the magical thinking that's required of its adherents. Humans will continue to justify such savagery as long as religions are around to grant "righteous" validation to acts of sadism.

The only way to effectively counter the ignorance, and irrationality, promoted by religion is to educate people in the sciences. Only the light of reason can disinfect a body necrotic with religion's fantastical lies.

Totally agree. An open society with a rich education is key.