E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSA ceremony held in Baghdad marked the official end of the nearly 9-year military campaign in Iraq, and now the 4,000 remaining troops in the country are heading home for the holidays. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 6:10 p.m. ET
President Barack Obama stopped short of calling the U.S. effort in Iraq a victory in an interview taped Thursday with ABC News' Barbara Walters.
"I would describe our troops as having succeeded in the mission of giving to the Iraqis their country in a way that gives them a chance for a successful future," Obama said.
Iraqi citizens offered a more pessimistic assessment. "The Americans are leaving behind them a destroyed country," said Mariam Khazim of Sadr City. "The Americans did not leave modern schools or big factories behind them. Instead, they left thousands of widows and orphans."
The Iraq Body Count website says more than 100,000 Iraqis have been killed since the U.S. invasion. The vast majority were civilians.
Updated at 10:58 a.m. ET
BAGHDAD -- U.S. forces formally ended their nine-year war in Iraq with a low-key flag ceremony in Baghdad on Thursday.
"After a lot of blood spilled by Iraqis and Americans, the mission of an Iraq that could govern and secure itself has become real," Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said at the ceremony at Baghdad's still heavily fortified airport.
Almost 4,500 U.S. soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis lost their lives in the war that began with a "Shock and Awe" campaign of missiles pounding Baghdad and descended into sectarian strife and a surge in U.S. troop numbers.
U.S. soldiers lowered the flag of American forces in Iraq and slipped it into a camouflage-colored sleeve in a brief outdoor ceremony, symbolically ending the most unpopular U.S. military venture since the Vietnam War of the 1960s and 70s.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and President Jalal Talabani were invited to the ceremony but did not attend.
In addition to the dead, the war left 32,000 Americans wounded and cost the U.S. more than $800 billion.
The remaining 4,000 American troops will leave by the end of the year.
Bombings are still common. Experts are also concerned about the Iraqi security force's ability to defend the nation against foreign threats.
However, Panetta said veterans of the conflict can be "secure in knowing that your sacrifice has helped the Iraqi people to cast tyranny aside."
Some Iraqi citizens offered a more pessimistic assessment. "The Americans are leaving behind them a destroyed country," said Mariam Khazim of Sadr City. "The Americans did not leave modern schools or big factories behind them. Instead, they left thousands of widows and orphans."
Gen. Lloyd Austin, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also spoke during the ceremony.
Updated at 5:46 a.m. ET: Austin says Iraqis now have "unprecedented opportunities."
Sen. John McCain, the ranking Republican member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, discusses the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq with TODAY's Matt Lauer. McCain says we risk losing everything we gained in the war-torn country by not leaving a residual force behind, apart from about 200 military advisers.
Updated at 5:42 a.m ET: "Since 2003, we have helped the Iraqi security forces grow from zero to 650,000-strong," Austin says.
Updated at 5:40 a.m. ET: Austin recalls how he was present when American forces secured the airfield where the ceremony is being held. "After 21 days of tough fighting, we ended Saddam Hussein's reign of terror," he adds.
Updated at 5:37 a.m. ET: Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, points out that the next time he visits Baghdad it will have to be at the invitation of the Iraqi government. "I kinda like that," he adds.
Updated at 5:32 a.m. ET: "This is not the end, this is the beginning," Panetta says. "May God bless Iraq, its people and its future."
NBC News
U.S. troops take part in the end of mission ceremony in Baghdad, Iraq, on Thursday.
Updated at 5:29 a.m. ET: "Let me be clear, Iraq will be tested in the days ahead -- by terrorism, by those who would seek to divide," Panetta says. "Challenges remain but the United States will be there to stand with the Iraqi people. We are not about to turn our backs on all that has been sacrificed and accomplished."
Updated at 5:26 a.m. ET: "Your sacrifice has helped the Iraqi people begin a new chapter in history, free from tyranny," Panetta says. "This outcome was never certain, particularly during the war's darkest days."
Updated at 5:23 a.m. ET: Panetta highlights the "heartbreak" of military families who watched their loved ones go off to war.
Updated at 5:18 a.m. ET: "It is a profound honor to be here in Baghdad," Panetta says at ceremony."No words, no ceremony can provide full tribute to the sacrifices that have brought this day to pass."
Saddam's Iraq is gone, but in its place is a state with close ties to one of America's biggest and most unpredictable enemies: Iran. NBC's Richard Engel has been covering the war from the start, and went back for this historic week to take a closer look at the Iran connection.
Updated at 5:16 a.m. ET: "We look forward to an Iraq that is sovereign, secure and self-reliant," US Ambassador to Iraq James Jeffrey says.
Published at 4:45 a.m. ET: After nearly nine years, 4,500 American dead, 32,000 wounded and more than $800 billion, U.S. officials prepared Thursday to formally shut down the war in Iraq — a conflict that U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said was worth the price in blood and money, as it set Iraq on a path to democracy.
Panetta stepped off his military plane in Baghdad Thursday as the leader of America's war in Iraq, but will leave as one of many top U.S. and global officials who hope to work with the struggling nation as it tries to find its new place in the Middle East and the broader world.
He and several other U.S. diplomatic, military and defense leaders will participate in a highly symbolic ceremony during which the flag of U.S. Forces-Iraq will officially be retired, or "cased," according to Army tradition.
During several stops in Afghanistan this week, Panetta made it clear that the U.S. can be proud of its accomplishments in Iraq, and that the cost of the bitterly divisive war was worth it.
After nearly nine years and 4,500 American lives lost, President Obama and the first lady officially marked the end of the Iraq war Wednesday. NBC's Kristen Welker has more.
"We spilled a lot of blood there," Panetta said. "But all of that has not been in vain. It's been to achieve a mission making that country sovereign and independent and able to govern and secure itself."
That, he said, is "a tribute to everybody — everybody who fought in that war, everybody who spilled blood in that war, everybody who was dedicated to making sure we could achieve that mission."
Panetta has echoed President Barack Obama's promise that the U.S. plans to keep a robust diplomatic presence in Iraq, foster a deep and lasting relationship with the nation and maintain a strong military force in the region.
As of Thursday, there were two U.S. bases and about 4,000 U.S. troops in Iraq — a dramatic drop from the roughly 500 military installations and as many as 170,000 troops during the surge ordered by President George W. Bush in 2007, when violence and raging sectarianism gripped the country. All U.S. troops are slated to be out of Iraq by the end of the year, but officials are likely to meet that goal a bit before then.
Read more about the Iraq withdrawal
- Post-US Iraq: Welcome to Shia-stan
- Iraqis unable to defend borders as US exits
- Iraqi voices: Patchwork electrical grid a symbol of country's disconnects
- Iraqi voices: Colonel helped with surge, then his past came calling
- A special homecoming from Iraq
The total U.S. departure is a bit earlier than initially planned, and military leaders worry that it is premature for the still maturing Iraqi security forces, who face continuing struggles to develop the logistics, air operations, surveillance and intelligence sharing capabilities they will need in what has long been a difficult neighborhood.
U.S. officials were unable to reach an agreement with the Iraqis on legal issues and troop immunity that would have allowed a small training and counterterrorism force to remain. U.S. defense officials said they expect there will be no movement on that issue until sometime next year.
Jon Soltz of VoteVets.org and Matthew Hoh of the Center for International Policy debate the winners and losers of the Iraq War and the non-military presence that will remain.
Still, despite Obama's earlier contention that all American troops would be home for Christmas, at least 4,000 forces will remain in Kuwait for some months. The troops will be able to help finalize the move out of Iraq, but could also be used as a quick reaction force if needed.
Bombings and attacks have eased since American and Iraqi security forces weakened insurgents. But roadside bombs, car bombs and assassinations still kill and maim almost every day.
A frail economy, constant power shortages, scarce jobs and discontent with political leaders all fuel uncertainty among Iraqis.
"Thanks to the Americans. They took us away from Saddam Hussein, I have to say that. But I think now we are going to be in trouble," said Malik Abed, 44, a vendor at a Baghdad fish market. "Maybe the terrorists will start attacking us again."
Read more content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Post-US Iraq: Welcome to Shia-stan
- Nazi hunters boost drive to find aging war criminals before they die
- Pakistan opposition leader: War on terror creating extremists
- Wild monkeys to detect radiation at Fukushima
- North Korea's heir apparent's hair apparent as fashion hit
- UN chief defends NATO, calls for action on Syria
- Rebellious Chinese village under siege by police
- Iraqis unable to defend their borders as US exits
The Associated Press, Reuters, NBC News and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
When are we going to finally learn to fight war the right way? The right way is to take out these corrupt leaders FIRST. - Rick Carter
(Unfortunately, as it stands right now, there is not much profit in that, for those who are tempted and inclined to profit from war.) - RC
The right way to fight a war is not to wage one in the first place.
a conflict that U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said was worth the price in blood and money, as it set Iraq on a path to democracy.
Rick, if you remember correctly our " Mission" was to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
The Iraq debacle was an embarassment. We ruined our economy, further destabilized the Middle East, and wasted the lives of 4,500 of our best citizens.
Panetta should be offering an apology to the Iraqis, not justifying this misadventure.
Rick, if you remember correctly our " Mission" was to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
Gee, I thought it was to take away his Weapons of Mass Destruction (which were never found). Funny how the mission kept changing, isn't it?
"Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and President Jalal Talabani were invited to the ceremony but did not attend"
Good luck..Azzholes! We're outta there!
Why? If you wanna grovel licking sh!tty mid-east ass_hole, go right ahead.
Marty I would agree w you - except for two inconvenient truths -
1. Iraq war was done in the name of "NEVERFOUND" WMDs.
2. Other than 4500 US soldiers - 100-500K Iraqi's dead and millions wounded and a couple of generations' future totally devastated. And a few thousand Texans became millionairres and billionairres.
Other than that Mission Accomplished.
Too bad we were so worried about Iraq and neglected America. Iraq was done to secure economic entitlements. Those economic entitlements should go into paying off the cost of this war first, before any private profits are allowed on the books. End of bs.
Which mission? They changed it so often I lost track.
Well, at least until all the veterans have left.
The remarks by the President and the military leaders at this time comprise the most blatant propaganda I have personally heard in my life.
I am floored. Shaking my head with my jaw hanging open.
But yes, the Iraqi people, due to us, now have a new chapter in history. And history will judge America for giving it to them.
I only hope that judgment is verbal and not in the form of terrorist attack. But wait... could we really call it a terrorist attack? Or would it just be pay-back?
I've wondered through it all why 9/11 was an act of terrorism and what we did to Iraq was an act of largesse. After all, we killed many TENS of thousands more innocent civilians than died in the twin towers, and Iraq didn't even have anything to do with it. But I know the answer: only American lives are real.
Just incredible what these warmongering hypocrites have the nerve to say.
One ugly, embarrassing, pathetic George Bush legacy is finally laid to rest - so many more still to go...
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
How can we officially end a war we never officially started? The U.S. congress never passed a declaration of war, just meaningless resolutions. Each party wants an imperial presidency, so long as they take turns sitting in the chair. Republicans gave powers to Bush he de didn't deserve, and Democrats are giving powers to Obama he doesn't deserve. The President of the United States can now start wars on his own, and imprison American citizens in jail indefinitly without due process, and thats if he just doesn't assassinate them first!
Both parties, with rare exceptions (Ron Paul and Dennis Kunicich for example), are hellbent on making America into a pretend Republic with a real dictator. The real problem is with us. We cheer "our" guy no matter what and demonize the other no matter what. We support wars not based on merit or just cause, but by who is sitting in the White House.
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
As I reflect back on this war I cannot honestly think of one good thing to come out of it. I think the Iraqis would have followed suit in the Arab Spring just as the other countries beat their unbeatable leaders. Yes, they would have waited 10 years to get it done but they could have done it easily. They hated Saddam before we ever got there.
What a waste of life, resources, time and money. I appreciate the countless sacrifices made by our military but wonder what else we could have done with them here or in some country where our technology and assistance could have made a positive impact.
Let's hope the American public pays attention and has a say so in the next conflict.
This one was a mistake from the beginning. Plain and simple.
Bush II lied to create his war of pleasure and 4,500 Americans died, America spent over 1 trillion dollars and will be paying for veteran's care for over another 60 years and all we got was their oil? Bush II, that is some very expensive oil!
I thought the war was suppose to be a war on terrorism in response to the WTC bombing, Only problem with that, the people responsible were in Afghanistan....SO what were we doing in Iraq again...9 yrs later I'm still confused.
Way before ground commanders suggested and against their advisement. Hope this wins Obama his election cause he's just pissed 9 years of hard work away
I wonder how many of the people posting their indignation now were among us who assembled to protest this war at the beginning.
It wasn't long ago that if you dared to speak out against what we were doing to Iraq, 99% would become vile-lently (sp deliberate) hysterical and threaten your life.
And I'd also like someone here to explain to me exactly how our soldiers made a "sacrfice?" Is it a sacrifice to choose to invade another country and kill its citizens?
This was a voluntary war. No one was forced to go. Only people who wanted to participate did so. They weren't protecting us from anything, since Iraq didn't do anything to us. So how can it be considered a sacrifice?
It was a video game to them. They got to go over there and play for real with no rules at all. Now they come home with PTSD because some of the Iraqi's fought back and the blood was real. Not the Iraqi blood, of course. That was "enemy" blood and doesn't count.
Disgusting doesn't even begin to cover it. And all this self-righteousness from the same people who supported it before the economy crashed is even more disgusting.
Interesting that the Iraqi leaders didn't come to the event. I watched a program on PBS about the Iraqi people - they hate the US, the soldiers, feel we are only there to rob them of their resources, and are about to attack the very soldiers that are supposed to be protecting them. They don't want Democracy, because they look at the US Democracy, with all the crooked leaders, politicians, the economy tanking. It seems we are forcing Democracy down their throats. I think the only reason our soldiers are getting out, is because the US knows the Iraqi people are about to storm the bases, and kill the Americans.
So what's your answer? Stay another decade and get another 5000 Americans killed? That's brilliant. I am glad we are leaving. I am sick of Iraq and the fact that so many of our people are sent there to die for people that don't seem to appreciate it. We've done more than our share of "hard work."
I am glad to see us getting out of Iraq. Now maybe when can spend some of that "defense" money on fixing our schools, roads, and our police and fire departments, and our armed forces instead of fixing theirs. It is hard to take care of someone else's country when ours id falling apart!
Nine years? Why not spend 90 years there? And what did those nine years of hard work get us? 5,000 American dead. Thousands more wounded and maimed. 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead. A billion dollar embassy/prison compound. Billions of dollars of revenue for Haliburton and all the other connected "contractors". The utter destruction of Iraqi infrastructure. The new hegemony of Iran. But for the Dick Cheney and his brain addled friend McCain that's not enough. They want more Americans dying there, more destruction, more money shoveled down the bottomless pit. When these old @!$%#s start dying away, maybe then we can get things straight. Until then we'll have to listen to these gutless cowards in the republican party whining about "cut and run".
Yep.
The only reason people are speaking out against the Iraq war now is because they perceive it as something that plays a part in their no longer being able to shop 'til they drop.
Well.... OK. The Iraq QWar is OVER. (a sarcastic) YAYY.
It is High Time to end the Military Industrial Complex right now too.
I Agree Mary. Just now Mr Cain spoke on the Today show; yet I heard doom in his voice, the doom of Solider's mission completed yet not quite willing to let go of. And Although I respect Mr. Cain as a Solider, I think he neglected all the work our boys did to get the Iraqi's to take over the role our soldiers played for this was their war not ours even though a poor leader tried to make it ours.
We did what we could to help them build a democratic nation above and beyond duty, blood and sweat. We spent a fortune over in Iraqi to the detriment of Americans --our own people. Sorry Mr. Cain but we can no longer afford to be there trying to lead and develop a democratic country when our own is falling apart. Hence our leader saw through this and he saw clearly that our troops can no longer afford to be there, as their work is done and done well.
However as long as our soliders were there, many Iraqi's may have felt no need to pretoect themselves and us the developed skills that we taught them. Hence now the time has come to for the Iraqi's to use thier new skills and thrive on what they have learned prayfully in peace!
While President Obama called mission accomplished the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, he do not call Victory. We definitely won a war and is a Victory, and the sacrifice of our soldiers was not in vain.. With the president Bush even if Obama does not mention it, the this way began tasting the sweet flavors of the democracy With President Bush even though Obama does not mention the Middle East started to taste the sweet taste of democracy, thanks to Bush, Hussein was the first dictator to fall in the Middle East, with Bush Iraq had its first democratic elections, its first Congress, this was the awakening that Bush speak, democracy will bring stability in the Middle East. What Obama is doing is to harvest the fruits of a war to which Democrats, Obama, Pelosi and Reid they were calling a lost war. In addition to taking democracies the war in Iraq, it allowed to go out of the closet many terrorists who were dead in combat The strategies of Bush to increase the number of troops, even with the opposition of Obama and the democratic this allowing now Obama have their moment of glory. Thank you President Bush.
Before it's turned against the American people to enforce a police state.
redvirginia- You are living in an alternate universe which has absolutely nothing to do with our reality. Either that or you are just making this crap up as you go along. Shame on you for posting this garbage.
Where were the WMD? Where was the yellow cake uranium? Where was El-Quida in Iraq before the US invaded? The answer to all is none or nowhere. This war was all based on BS and most of the smart American public knows it. This was is Bush and Chaney's failed war and will always be.
Thank you President Obama.
Finally, ending the insanity and the financial rape of our country. I hope the ego massage Bush received and the bazillions that devil Cheney received through Halliburton was worth it. They will be remembered forever as the worst administration in the history of our country.
redvirginia,
I believe it was that idiot Bush who shouted "mission accomplished." Wearing a flak jacket, landing on a carrier. That was the most insulting debacle this country has ever witnessed. What did he accomplish? He accomplished making one huge giant horse's ass out of himself and the biggest liar ever. I suppose you think the financial rape of our country by Cheney's Halliburton is something to be proud of. It's people like you who vote for these insane morons.
nwnative: Do you really think Obama is going to end the "financial rape of our country?" He'll simply waste the money that's been saved on some other useless endeavor. Perhaps more kickbacks to his crony friends running the "green" companies like Solyndra.
And besides what mission had Bush accomplished....
He never found the weapons of mass destruction, Hussein was still alive and well, and Bin Laden was pointing at him and laughing hiding in plain sight....
Some would even criticize Obama for taking the troops out of Iraq....But if you remember at the same time Bush gave that "mission accomplished speech" he also made the promise to get our soldiers out Iraq before the end of 2011....SO
Obama got Hussein, Bin Laden, and he's getting our troops out of Iraq before the end of 2011...I'm sure Bush and all his supporters probably feel about as small as an acorn right now.
jerri-1,
You sound like you have some real issues. Not to mention the fact that you're a blatant hypocrite.
And all this self-righteousness from the same people who supported it before the economy crashed is even more disgusting.
You condemn others for their self-righteousness, yet think nothing of spouting off your own self-righteous indignation. You might want to look in the mirror before you start calling others names. Maybe you should try actually engaging your brain before you open your mouth.
You're a poster child for hypocrisy. Thanks for the laugh though. I always like to be reminded how stupid some people can be.
I love the headline about "our sacrifices" helping Iraq begin a new chapter in their history! LOL! What else can we say with egg still on our faces? "Sorry, we $crewed things up royally and we have done the best we did. Sorry to leave you all exposed (as we did with Iran in the 50's) for your next civil war! Good luck! Oh, and about those tens of thousands of men, women and children we helped kill and maimed....well, that's the true lesson of "democracy" we leave you.....freedom is never free...and that was the price we helped you pay to get what you got!"
The whole thing was FUBAR! Like all wars, a few got filthy rich while the innocent paid the highest price for our nation building exercise! Bush and his whole gang of idiots should be in jail for all those unnecessary deaths (on both sides)!
But hey, at least we got the largest embassy in the world out of the deal....(sarcasm)
Mission Accomplished means this: TRILLIONS of borrowed $$$ to war profiteers. Oil fields secured for foreign oil companies to use. World's largest embassy built. Tens of thousands killed, tortured, maimed. USA gets to show the world what a real bully looks like. In Afghanistan, Mission Accomplished is that our military pacified areas rich with minerals, so that China and India can mine them. WAR IS A CRIMINAL ACT AGAINST HUMANITY!
Oh...and one more thing we should really be saying to Iraq...
"Hey! If you ever run across all the WMD that Bush, Rumsfield, Rice and Cheney was scaring us with, you know...that potential "mushroom cloud".....would you mind giving us a call? Seriously. Some of it might be easy to spot....it may still have the receipts tags hanging off of some of it that says "U.S.A." on it! Either way though, we would really and truly appreciate it.....have a nice day! Oh, send it to us UPS....we may not have the money to come get it ourselves!"
@Connie:
According to Bush himself, it was because "the son of a b**** Saddam Hussein tried to kill my father!"
Well, it depends on who you ask about the WMDs. The Repubs would have you believe they removed yellow cake Uranium from some hole in the ground. The Dems would have you believe the yellow cake was so far gone it wouldn't have been able to be refined enough to make an atomic bomb. It depends on which side you believe.
Something bothers me about this though - even if the yellow cake was too far gone to make an atomic bomb, I've heard that they could've made a "dirty nuke" - a radiological weapon that, while not as powerful as a full-blown nuke, would still be able to cause death over a large area. Anyone want to elaborate on this?
America's cost for the two wars in Iraq should be paid for by their oil. We should take their oil, credited at market value, until every cent is repaid. (Kuwait owes us too.)
Yep, US Public fooled again with Reelection Baloney.
25th Infantry Division.
My US Military Officer Brother In Law still there (as a Combatant (Combat Patrols, and he is not even US Army nor USMC). Might be attached to US Department of State.
Any of you even have an idea how many US Military will be attached to the US Department of State (acres Billion USD US Embassy Compound). 1,000 US Department of State US Civilians minus US Military equals .........
To those that actually participated from the beginning and knew the Mission never changed. Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) was used as the Justification to Overthrow President Hussein.
Written Proof: US LAWS (with US Congressional Appropriations), it is NOT the US President's Job to create US Laws, that is the job of US Congress, it is also the Job of US Congress to find the money to fund the US Laws US Congress Creates. IT IS NOT THE US PRESIDENT'S JOB TO DECIDE WHICH US LAWS TO ENFORCE:
US LAW, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" with US Congressional Appropriations, as demanded by President Clinton during his State of the Union Address to a joint Session of US Congress, 1998. Justification WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings" of US Law H.R.4655 (scroll down to Section 2 "Findings"):
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
It was believed by President Clinton that Overthrowing President Hussein would "Liberate the Iraqis People". This is when we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams) were sent into Iraq to buy hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein. After this failed, as they were turning each other in for rewards, and being apprehended, tried and executed as Traitors, with President Clinton stating, "Dictator Massacring His Own People".
After all the lesser means of US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" (money still being appropriated by US Congress, 1998 to 2011, the US Law does NOT go away until the US Law is Accomplished). US Congress uses the Final Option, the US Military, by DECLARING WAR WITH IRAQ, with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations. The only valid excuse for a US President to NOT enforce a US Law, is if there is no money (US Congressional Appropriations).
US Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution:
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/wariniraq/a/jt_resolution.htm
READ PAGE FOUR ALL THOSE D D D D D D DD D DD D D D D D D D DDD DD D D ARE NOT R RR RR RR RR
Yes, you are a dud, "One ugly, embarrassing, pathetic". Failure of the Failed US Education System.
More uh duh. Read the above, text of the 2002 Iraqi WAR Resolution.
Another Failure of the Failed US Education System, your screen name fits, Dick.
You want the TRUTH or the Reelection baloney from the non participants. President Clinton demanded the Overthrow of President Hussein with the Justification of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs). According to International Laws (International Court of Justice at the Hague) stating the Overthrow of a Sovereign Established Government is a Declaration of War (for obvious reasons).
President Clinton demanding to a joint session of US Congress the passage of H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", justification of Weapons of Mass Destruction:
Connie says, don't be confused just ask someone that was involved.
The US Ally, King of Saudi Arabia summed that up really well, "President Obama gave Iraq as a gift to Iran on a Golden Platter".
After President Obama gave Iran CarteBlanche to do anything they want (and did, are doing) withhis 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy. This allowed Iran to back the Muslim Brotherhood to overthrow US Ally, the Al Quada Yemen to overthrow US Ally, Iran controlling the Shipping (Saudi Oil Supertankers to US) at the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman, and of course the Iranian Allies the Kurdistanis and Shiites to take over Iraq; leaving US Ally Saudi Arabia surrounded. And the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) overthrowing Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the US. As praised by President Obama as the "Arab Spring".
Sure. The bottom of my men's, women's, and my previous Retirement Orders, "Involuntarily Recalled for Matters of National Security". Our involvement in Operation Hotel California, 2002 to 2003. (I know, before you even say it. Yes, women as Combatants, back then my "Amazons", now a days "Lionesses". As even during the 1980s US Military Training Teams, we knew that at Islamic Nations only women associate with women at Islamic Nations. A big f**king surprise to the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces, because they did not know Islam.).
Iraq is a lost cause, after my men, women, myself as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars and later rotated to Pakistan/Afghanistan to train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to defeat the USSR 40th Army Occupation. After that the US Politicians and US Civilians (that hired those US Politicians) refused to listen to us (us living with the locals for years of consecutive tours).
Iraqis, Arabs, Sunnis, Arabic. Sunnis being "Modern", "Western", Islamic Believers, previous Allies of the US during the Iran Iraq Wars. Left with nothing after their enemies the Kurdistanis and the Shiites were given control of the wealth of Iraq (Northern and Southern Iraqis Oil Fields), so they formed or joined Al Quada Iraq to get their Nation back.
Kurdistanis, IndoEuropeans, Shiites, Kurdish form of Farsi. Goal the formation of Kurdistan (Southern Turkey, Border of Syria, Northern Iraq, western Iran). Since the Iran Iraq Wars, the Armed (men, women, children) Allies of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. Were given control of the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields, as allies of Iran, Iran then negotiated with the Chinese and Russian Federation for the Iraqis Oil Contracts, 2010.
Shiites, Iranians (Persians), Shiites, Farsi. The millions of Illegal Aliens that fled the massive Unemployment at Iran thru Basra after the Fall of the Shah of Iran. Used as cheap labor by the Iraqis at the Southern Iraqis Oil Fields. After a few generations demanded Iraqis Citizen's Rights, just like the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US, without renouncing their Iranian Citizenship. Were given control of the Southern Iraqis Oil Fields. Were given control of the Southern Iraqis Oil Fields, as allies of Iran, Iran then negotiated with the Chinese and Russian Federation for the Iraqis Oil Contracts, 2010.
The loss of the Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Fields made the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies (except for Germany that has deals with the Russian Federation since the later 1980s (natural gas pipeline built) and oil from the Russian Federation.).
The Iraqis Oil from the Northern and Southern Iraqis Oil Fields could have paid for the US Military Liberation of Iraq for decades.
This is exactly why I want President Obama to do as promised (verbal contract) during the Presidential Debates, as his solution to stop the repeated US Military deployments of the 1/2 of 1% of US Citizens of the US Military. President Obama's solution the Selective Service aka "Draft" or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service, as stated by Candidate Obama, "US Military Service is a Civic Duty", and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement" (why many of US Military voted for him).
As: The Four Legal Authorities over the US Military: UN Rules, Laws; Local Laws; US Civil Laws; UCMJ. So sure Jeffor, I would like to see you live by the UCMJ without stepping on your dick, especially the ethical and moral parts of the UCMJ. By the way there is no such thing as "Double Jeopardy", so you can be taken to trial four times.
FYI, take a rough guess what the US Army Corps of Engineers does at the US, as part of the US Military Defense Budget.
Also you think Unemployment is bad now. It has been stated that President Obama will Reduction In Force (RIF) 27,000 US Military Personnel (no longer needed for the Wars). To make matters even worse, the xxx,xxx US Civilians that support the 27,000 US Military are also no longer needed. That means x27,xxx soon to become Unemployed. And do not even say Secure the US Borders, as per President Obama's April 2009 and August 2009 Policies, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders" (State's Militia, aka National Guard is not the same as Federal Active US Military).
You know why I want the Automatic Budget Cuts of 10% of the US Military Defense Budget to occur. That way the US Civilians will finally figure out that the US Military employs almost a hundred Million US Civilians, as when the Automatic Budget Cuts of 10% of the US Military Defense Budget occur one million US Civilians will be thrown on Unemployment. And most US Civilians will realize too late that it was the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR that got the US out of the Great Depression, 1939 before US entry into WWII, 1941; and is currently keeping the US out of another Great Depression (after the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of previous Depressions were removed, 1999 and 2000, that enabled the current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc. (same as occurred during the Great Depression).
After these one million US Civilians become Unemployed they will not have money for Fast Food, Theaters, Real Estate, Car Dealerships, Retail, Rent, Insurance, Local City State Taxes, Property Taxes, etc. creating more Unemployment of US Civilians in these areas.
By the way Bluelake do you even have an idea how many US Civilians the over 3,000 US Contractors employ.
Less than 7 months and most of my men, women and myself will be "Too Old" to ever be involuntarily Recalled to Active Duty. It is those that must participate in War that hate War the most. No more single digit near Arctic Winters here (Afghanistan Mountains).
Connie
You are still under the effect of the kool-aid that takes daily . That Obama caught Hussein is a flagrant desmostration of ignorance. In your state of denial, of course you can not see Arab Spring who continued supporting Obama , begins with the release of the Iraqi from the oppressive hands of its dictator, was not Obama , who brought democracy in Iraq, was not Obama who allowed that Sunni Shiite and Kurdish groups elect their representatives and establish a new Congress, was not Obama shows that the countries of the Middle East can have democracy. The sacrifice of our troops has not been in vain and they know what is to be a Commandant in Chief, something they do not see in Obama.
Barack Obama Promise to End War
______________________________________________________________
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. " - Barack Obama Campaign Promise - October 27, 2007 Nov 12, 2009
______________________________________________________________________
What bank would that be Barack ???????
David 475776....me thinks you are off your rocker.....find help.
Mike-277 - I agree with you, those guys days are numbered. They better get all the money they can stashed in Swiss bank accounts, because they'll be heading for the hills within a year or two.
MSDNC,
The fact is, Bush didn't do a damn thing to fix anything or end the war he started. It's your Republican friends who seem so interested in the continuation of endless bleeding of our money and resources into this country who doesn't want us there in the first place. Your statement is silly.
I see not one similarity between Bush and Obama thank god.
interesting... past use of WMD's, refusing a timely and thorough international inspection for WMD's and finally implying that WMD's would be used against anyone attacking saddam. Saddam's previous invasion of kuwait and setting oil fields afire as he withdrew.
What country wouldn't have concluded that iraq was a destabilizing influence in the mideast?
Yes, it was unfortunate for us and other coalition forces to have to occupy iraq during their religious war.
Lest anyone think that obama got us out of iraq, it was bush2 that signed the SOFA that established the date. Regardless. it is sweet to have our troops out of iraq and that obama and company have acknowledged that our presence their was not in vain.
To bad that the Democratic Congress didn't have the balls not to approve the war in the first place...What a waste just like Vietnam war, only we lost 60K in that mess....
"US OFFICIALLY ENDS IRAQ WAR"
&
"'Dismal': One in two
Americans are now
poor or low-income"
____________________________________________________
At this moment, these are the 2 side-by-side headlines on MSNBC.
Congratulations to the Cheney/Halliburton "administration";
____________________________________________
M I S S I O N --- A C C O M P L I S H E D --!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
____________________________________________
(With the help of their war criminal lap dog, Bush.)
This was not a war. Never was. It was a rediculous and evil republican/conservative agenda. It was a stupid decision made by moronic republicans and conservatives who were trying to get rich by making money for their businesses through contracts. So, basically our tax money goes through the government to make the republicans and their businesses rich. War is a front for republicans. For this war, it was for Bush and Cheney and co. to make billions, especially for Halliburton. Wake up America. This country and the world will continue to suffer and go downhill as long as the brainwashed citizens, who keep voting for the republicans, keep believing the lies of the republican politicians and then continue to vote for them. Stop voting for republicans. They are bad and selfish monsters. All they care about is themselves. I am not telling you to vote democrat either. There are bad democrats too. However, I believe that the bad democrats are actually republicans/conservatives in disguise, so they can secretly push the republican/conservative agenda through other means. That's how sick and twisted republicans are. They will do anything to lie, cheat, steal, control, and even murder our troops and other innocent citizens in other countries just to get rich, feel powerful, and make others believe their religion and aweful beliefs. This country will never progress until all republicans and conservatives are out of the government. You don't deserve the priviliges of this country and all its freedoms due to your lies, manipulations, and evil ways.
P.S. for all you presumptious and judgmental people out their, I am not a democrat either. I am a proud white American, who loves this country to death and would die for it for the right reasons. But not to make someone else rich and to look better. I totally believe in democracy, which does work, but you cannot force it onto another country, especially through war. Shame on everyone who voted for Bush, the republicans, the republican politicians, and the Bush himself. I don't know how any of you sleep at night knowing that you are a bad person and are lying to others. That is like China declaring war on us, bombing us, getting us to surrender, killing our leaders (like they did Sadam), and then making us become communist. I don't know about you, but I would not be ok with that, and we should not be ok with what we did with Iraq. I love every soldier that went over their (as long as they did not commit any crimes over their, such as rape, torture, stealing, et cetera) and I support our troops. I am glad they get to come home. I am so excited. I will always appreciate and be proud of our soldiers. We just need better leaders and avoid electing republican presidents and other presidents who are selfish and just want to make others believe how they believe and to make money. Shame on you republicans and conservatives. You don't fool me.
I will love to read the comments and people who respond to this post who are republicans and conservatives. If you don't agree with me and start calling me names, like socialist, it just proves my point. You are brainwashed. Wake up!!!!!! P.S. I am not a socialist. I am a proud American who believes in the Republic. Also, keep your religions out of our government. That is for another discussion, but that is what is also driving this country into the ground is the horrible republicans and conservatives trying to get elected to make everyone christian or whatever their religon is and push their religious beliefs onto everyone. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Any politician who makes decisions from their religion should be terminated immediately. It is not ok to create policies and laws based on religious beliefs. All you do is end up hurting and abusing others. Stop it. I hope Americans continue to see the truth about republicans and conservatives and quit voting for them. There may be a couple of good ones out there but how can you say your a good person and be a republican/conservative when your only agenda is to keep the rich rich and make the middle class poor and the poor poorer. That is an aristocracy not democracy. I see through you republicans. I hope everyone else can too. I am tired of me and others having to clean up your messes after you have a republican president or other republican leaders in office for years. It's rediculous. And, then, the republicans try to blame it on the democrats. It was your fault to begin with. The only people who believe your lies are the other republicans and conservatives who you have brainwashed already. You are sick and crazy. Please get out of our country if you are not going to do what is best for the country and the citizens.
Peace, love, and happiness is what it is all about.
I anticipated the name calling by those who's Fiction does not match the actual DOCUMENTED FACTS (US Laws).
1953 - The US, under Eisenhower overthrows Iranian Prime Minister Mosaddegh, installing and propping up the dictatorial Shah for the next 28 years until he is overthrown by the Islamic Revolution led by Khomeini. Brilliant Success!
2002 - The US, under Bush overthrows Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, initiating a cascading series of violent attacks and reprisals among the various factions of the Iraqi population, until a barely functioning coalition government of mostly Shiite muslims is elected. Another Brilliant Success!
When will the hubris of the U.S. end?
@david you got it all figured out! Great post.
How many times can the lie of no WMD was found in Iraq be spewed on this website?
If the US found one old weaponized version of any WMD after the second invasion it makes null and void this very tired lie and guess what folks regardless of your affinity for lying about it the United States forced DID IN FACT find WMD.
Get over it Bush was wrong for going into Iraq and the vast majority of Congress was wrong for authorizing it and yes they did authorize force both sides did in fact only a few from both sides voted against it.
This headline is a complete lie the military will in fact have forward deployed units they will just be taking away the term "combat troops" US military forces, mercenaries and civilian contractors will be in Iraq for longer then anyone reading this will be alive.
@zenlove all I can say is you have projected your own mental illness on others reality is what it is and you need to quit drinking the bong water.
Zen Love,
Nice long emotional, pointless rant. By the way, your comment only makes you look like a blatant hypocrite. You pass judgement on all Republicans and conservatives, but then make mocking statements about how they'll say bad things about your post.
Yeah, you're a hypocrite. I feel sorry for you because you are obviously incapable of realizing the hypocrisy of your statements. It must suck going through life being as ignorant and hateful as you are.
Perhaps you should practice that Zen Love some more. I don't think you have it figured out yet.
David...I don't think COTW was name calling...I think he is truly trying to get you to get help. I second his opinion!
Wizard of Wisdom...sounds like you could use some anger management as well...pot calling the kettle black maybe??? Just saying...
I'll take it one step further Benr,
IF Bushy and Cheney were sooo very proud of what they did, then how come they remain in hiding.
For gosh sakes, we even heard from Quayle lately yet Bush still hides with his tail between his legs. His admin failed us the people, failed internationally and failed themselves---fine them for their failure as they only thing they succeeded in doing is increasing the gas of oil---and to think they themselves own huge deposits in oil corps!
What a friggin scam they pulled and are still pulling by perpetrating the GOP's agenda to say NO. what pathetic people we now have in Congress ---do they care about the end of this war nah as long as they still make money from Iraq's oil!
A few thoughts about the Iraq War; We probably shouldn't have gone in there. But, nobody knew for certain, 9 years ago, if Hussein was a paper tiger, or if he really had WMD's. Remember, the U.N. wasn't absolutely certain either. Hindsight is, of course, 20/20. What's more, his removal from power really wasnt a bad thing. All in all, and given the out final outcome (4500 American lives lost, tens of thosands of Iraqi deaths, no WMD, and a Shiite majority in Iraq's post war government) the question will always remain as to whether or not it was worth the trouble.
Secondly, someone posted up in here that Obama got Hussein, and Bin Laden, and ended the Iraqi War. That is not completely true.
Obama does get credit for the elimination of Osama Bin Laden. However, Saddam was captured in December of 2003, long before Obama was even in the U.S. Senate, and the war itself had to come to an end this month, BY LAW.
The measure that passed through congress back in the fall of 2002, authorizing Bush to send troops into Iraq, also called for cessation of combat operations, and withdrawal of all US troops before December 31, 2011.
So Obama gets NO credit for ending the war. He's only following the law according to what passed through congress 9 years ago.
At the end of the day; we're all glad it's over. We mourn the loss of those who gave their lives, and we hope that Iraq doesn't follow the usual pattern of Islamic countries who's government's were propped up by us, only to have them turn on us years later.
Another lie, Iraqi oil money will pay for the war. Just another lying republican, go figure.... Bush proved Republicans are evil!
dano - And add 34,000 more to that casualty rate from Vietnam for those who died in the line of duty not KIA's from things such as heat stroke, vehicle accidents and other types of accidents making the total who died almost 100,000.
If you remember Sadam had conditions of surrender following his defeat from the kuwait invasion. He was violating many of them including firing at our planes. It recently came to light some Iraqi's were lying to us and other country's intelligence agencies so we would take him out. He was way to powerful and brutal for an uprising to be effective and this was their only way.
It was as many dems as repub's that was in agreement to go. Along with several other countries. The comments that is Bush's war alone is not correct, as Clinton, Kerry and most democrats in congress favored going. And gave speeches for such.
Not saying i was for the war.
Zen Love
I'm astonished for all the garbage full of hypocrisy. While you call us, sick, crazy, murderess, and you complains because someone else call you names. Who gives you the moral authority to lecture us what is right or wrong or if we are brainwashed or not, at this point I can say the same about you. You don't think by yourself, you merely repeat whet the media circus say , spinning legitimate aspirations to garbage like conservatives are for the rich, I believe this is the land of opportunities, until you and your group decide to call sinners to the American that succeed and make them ashamed of their own wealth, the war against Americans that you start has no precedent in history, the class warfare, the race warfare, the sex warfare have created more divisions among American to create a proper environment in which left wing groups can promote socialist ideas.
I would like to blame Crab People.
Stewart/Colbert 2012
David-457556 (whatever )your entire diatribe is incorrect. This was not a US war. It comes under the authority of the CPA. The reasons for going to war that you posted as an historical rewrite of the actual facts (in order to show your partisanship), duly noted, soldier.
The CPA was at war with Sadam's regime. US forces were involved and THAT is what congress (who was MAJORITY RRRRRRRRRRR) appropriated. Mr Clinton NEVER supported the CPA while he was president. If this was a US war, the US taxpayers could have sued the Sugar Honey Ice Tea out of all Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney's investment issues, for breach of contract. But as it is/was, no one in the US can recoup the hundreds of billions of dollar that were swindled from the American people because by LAW LAW LAW, as determined in court, this was not a US war. CPA uh duh, as you so aptly put it.
May I ask if you have grown up? You seem to enjoy poisoning the well of all who would disagree with your obvious bias. However people are free to look up the various committees and court rulings that purged this war from any US President's responsility. But it certainly was to President Bush's and Vice President Cheney's delight. They so delighted in the deaths as they both joked about not find those darn WMDs......ever! What a hoot eh?
What else can't be retrieved? American, British and Iraqi lives. There is no excuse for such deliberate attempts to entangle the truth when lives were lost especially from someone claiming to be a member of our armed forces. Shame on you Sir.. You should be on your knees apologizing.
I'd suggest you also access court records instead of relying of portions of law, that don't fully apply to this situation.
If you don't believe me, do a bit of actual research and find the Senate Finance Committee, Hans Blix, Oil for food, Paul Bremmer, George H W Bush, Dore Gold, William Clark etc etc etc...........
Good luck on your GED Mr, DJ.
I was against this invasion from the beginning and was very vocal about it. We had inspectors on the ground in Iraq and they were finding nothing. Unfortunately I was shouted down and called an idiot and every name in the book. Everyone wanted a war and the media championed the invasion. Meanwhile it gave the military a great chance to show off and demonstrate it's expensive state of the art weapons on a third world country whose missiles disintegrated in the air. And naturally NO ONE ever admitted they were wrong in supporting the invasion.
A complete waste of lives and dollars.
Brad,
Your comment is as amusing as it is ignorant. How exactly do you equate "anger management" with someone who is merely pointing out another's blatant hypocrisy? As for pot calling the kettle black, you again prove your ignorance. Nowhere in my comment was I hypocritical.
Maybe you should go back to school and learn some critical thinking skills. Just sayin.
Not only was this war an embarrassment, but also, it was a major mistake going to War in Iraq. Obviously the U.S. has not learned from their numerous past mistakes with deciding when to go off to War (i.e. Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, etc.). The U.S. is not the World Police Dogs, nor do we have the money to waste with being the Police Dogs, esp when today's msnbc.com headline says"Dismal 1 in 2 Americans are now poor or low income." Even though Republicans want to eliminate all the "Social Entitlement Programs", we need to be helping and feeding our own people first before squandering our money in other countries to include the Fed Family sending huge amounts of money to bail out the banks in Europe. But then politicians (esp. Republicans) don't consider feeding the U.S. as profitable to their pockets.
Love the way they scanned the M16 at the airport. Hey you never know, there could be a weapon in there.
This war ended a long time ago when Bush landed on the carrier and gave a speech in front of the big banner that said "Mission Accomplished" and everyone was else was fooled into thinking so as well.
So the war is over? Who won and what was the final score?
The best thing about all of this is that it is essentially and, hopefully, over. Now Obama is rattling his sabers at Iran, leaving 4,000 troops in Iraq, and engaged in a pissing match with Pakistan who has closed routes and bases into Afghanistan. Sooo, while there is good news for the homecoming troops, who's to say they get to stay here?
Then there is the issue of the military layoffs which will happen soon, where do those soldiers now go to make a living?
Roger that " A Veteran " And THANK YOU for your service ..!! God Bless and have a wonderful Christmas and New Year..
Worldwide Islamic terrorist recruiting campaigns: +1
American dignity: 0
Hey Wizard of Wit-dumb...or however you say your name. Nice labeling, name calling and passing judgment! I got Brad leading you one to zip! Keep trying...you just might see something out of the corner of your eye....like YOUR hypocrisy....maybe.....oh, take off your blinders first....might help ya....
I LIKE the baby yellow cakes... the ones with the happy sparkling sprinkles on top...
Shandril
"The right way to fight a war is not to wage one in the first place."
Easily said but not easily done. WW2 for example.
The Second Iraq war could have easily been avoided if Bush senior had finished it when he had the chance, when most of the current terrorists didn't exist.
Everyone would like peace but with some peace will never happen until all of their perceived enemies are destroyed or enslaved. What we have seen is just the tip of the iceberg. Islam wants the world to be Islam. It might not be the majority of them, but it is way too many, and with the current events in the revolutions across the ME, the worst has yet to come. Old dictators who kept the peace, for the most part, are being replaced by Isamofacists that don't care about anything except Islam, sharia law. Wake up world. You will eventually have to pick a side. Trying to stay in the middle of the road will get you driven over by a tank.
Pakistan has a butt load of nukes and everyone except the deaf, blind and dumb knows that they are not just a deterrent from India. Iran is developing nukes and everyone knows it. The Islamic world wants to destroy Israel, just because it exists. They have their nukes too. When they all start launching them, the world as we know it will cease to exist. What is left afterward will be total anarchy. The 99% won't matter, nor will the 1%. It will be back to subsistence living by the ones who are the strongest. The ones who have always provided for themselves and not dependent on any government. Get your cave ready.
............... yeah. A new chapter, all right. Goodbye Saddam. Hello Al Sadr.
Yeeeeehaaaaaaa!
What did the 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars achieve?
1. Most ungrateful, seventh century bigoted and highly corrupt Sunni Kuwaiti ruler with 65 wives and Sunni Saudi ruler and 5000 princes and princesses with their huge battalions of girls and women saved.
2. Many poor soldiers lost their lives and more wounded and huge tax monies sunk. Imagine devastations of the affected families and for whom? We are almost broke in the business of "mission accomplished"!
3. High oil prices (from about $30 a barrel up to $145 a barrel making the most ungrateful, barbaric and beastly Sunni sheikhs rich.
4. Sunni Islamic radical and terror breeding mosques (especially Salafi and Wahhabi versions) all over the world financed by the Sunni rich beasts and barbarians, whom we saved.
5. In 1000 years, Iraq will have Shiastan with Shiites ruling and bloody civil wars to follow.
Still bankrupt Britain is preparing on the directions of Saudi rulers to attack Iran in search of WMDs and then their soliders will hide in their barracks like in Basra!
French may jump and dance too like in Libya!
What did the 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars achieve?
1. Most ungrateful, seventh century bigoted and highly corrupt Sunni Kuwaiti ruler with 65 wives and Sunni Saudi ruler and 5000 princes and princesses with their huge battalions of girls and women saved.
2. Many poor soldiers lost their lives and more wounded and huge tax monies sunk. Imagine devastations of the affected families and for whom? We are almost broke in the business of "mission accomplished"!
3. High oil prices (from about $30 a barrel up to $145 a barrel making the most ungrateful, barbaric and beastly Sunni sheikhs rich.
4. Sunni Islamic radical and terror breeding mosques (especially Salafi and Wahhabi versions) all over the world financed by the Sunni rich beasts and barbarians, whom we saved.
5. In 1000 years, Iraq will have Shiastan with Shiites ruling and bloody civil wars to follow.
Still bankrupt Britain is preparing on the directions of Saudi rulers to attack Iran in search of WMDs and then their soliders will hide in their barracks like in Basra!
French may jump and dance too like in Libya!
Jon, you repeat yourself.
No clue either.
Wizard of Wisdom:
What an ironic nom de querre you've chosen. You think posting a reply that contains nothing but childish personal insults illustrates wisdom?
Too bad I pulled your chain with the truth, but if you can't refute it with anything other than empty insults, it just proves that my remarks hit home.
A frail economy, power shortages, daily deaths and maimings from roadside bombs--the Iraq we leave behind is full of anti-American sentiment and cultural and structural problems that make it unlikely to function as an American-style democracy. Deaths, wounds, nine years and almost a trillion dollars later, we are finally leaving, but the question that lingers is: Why were we there? Saddam Hussein was not the problem, and removing him has not been the solution. Today the Middle East is more perilous and the future of Syria, Egypt, and Libya, to name a few, is far from certain. Iran is rogue, and Israel has been beset both by shelling from the Palestinians and demonstrations from within. When will we learn that these problems can't be settled with "shock and awe," not to mention the sticker shock to our economy and the legacy of wounded soldiers?
Sherrie, I am believing more and more in the military industrial complex conspiracy that Dwight spoke about.
I will never forget Colin Powell´s presentation the the U.N. After it, I was terrified and full of the belief that our nation was " at risk." I was one of the chest beaters saying , " let´s go"
Almost ten years later, I still can´t comprehend the deciet and lies. I can´t believe we didn´t find barrels of biological weapons. I can´t believe what we, as a nation did.
I think that instead of trying to put a face of honor on this war, we should call it what it truly is and try to never let it happen again.
Give it 20 years and Iraq will be a nation totally controlled by anti-American forces, and irronically enough, actully will be a hub for terrorists. Marty, you say that you hate what happened and that it should never be allowed to happen again. The people in the Middle East all the more so hate what happened and are also determined not to let America invade them.
"Remember Iraq" will become the new recruiting slogan and war cry for anti-American forces in the Middle East.
Will, it won't take 20 yrs - it will be that way in less than 2. Iran has been sending it's advisers there for about 3 yrs now, just licking their lips in anticipation of this day. I may even be off by a year - we may be talking months!
That's because you can't impose democracy from outside. The people have to take it for themselves, a fact that was conveniently ignored by our government.
They are already hanging Al SAdr pictures in the streets I give 1 year
Saddam killed millions of his own people. The problem is that, this area has more of a tribal mentallity and they will most likely continue fighting. I've often wondered if that while we were at the United Nations asking for permission to go to war, some of those WMD's didn't slip across the border. Move them out. Americans come in for another 1 month war and leave when nothing is found. Then they bring them back. Just a theory. But, honestly, they had the scientists and given the chance, I think Saddam would have built more chemical weapons.
We can thank G W Bush our illustrious President of the time for all the deciet and lies of WMD's that were not there. We thank him for his vendetta for his father and we can thank him for all the loss of life on both sides and the hate that will come from the middle east.
Thanks Bush (he doesn't deserve to be called a president) for the demise of the United States.
While I never agreed with the war in Iraq, I beg to differ when you say Sadam wasn't the problem in Iraq. I think the families of all the people he tested his chemicals on then tossed them in mass graves would think differenty if asked. Almost all Iraqi's are glad he's dead. He and his sons made their lives a living hell. The world is a much better place without all of them. I just wish the Iraqi's would have had the guts to take him down themselves. They wanted the Americans to finish what was started in the 90's but when they found out that freedom has it's price they weren't willing to pay it. Thank God none of you were alive when the US had to fight for our own country's freedom. We would have been under England's rule forever if it had been up to you. As for all you people who say the military didn't sacrifice, I would also beg to differ. When you take the military oath you have an obligation that most servicemen and women take seriously no matter what their opinion may be. They have always protected and defended your rights and freedoms. They care about you even though you hate them and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for saying anything about these men and women. If you don't like this country there are many more countries in this world for you to go to live. There is a reason that the US is the most sought out country to live in even in these times. You take for granted what you have here. Start appreciating it.
Iraq and Iran used to be bitter enemies- one Sunni, one Shi'a.
They fought a war that lasted a decade (the 1980s). The US sold weapons to BOTH SIDES.
Then the US invaded Iraq on bull@!$%# grounds... WMD, yellow-cake, revenge, etc.
We provided Iraq and Iran with a common enemy greater than each other.
Now Iraq and Iran will unite against the US, and many of the weapons they'll be firing at us will be our own.
Such a waste...
Kathy,
I didn't see anyone say anything like that. Whom are you referring to? Obviously you think that firepower and pre-emptive strikes are the way to handle regime change, but no one here said they didn't respect our servicemen or wanted to live somewhere else. What we want to do is protect our country from ever entering a misbegotten war again. The big winner after our 10 years in Iraq is Halliburton. I would think that you would be angered by the deceit that was practiced on our own service people. I just did a chart that compares the prices of Ford, UPS, Bank of America, and Halliburton over the last decade. Unfortunately, it will not post here, but you can do one for yourself. That line that you will see soaring above the other companies represents the price of Halliburton stock. Although I applaud your apparent altruism, you are frighteningly naive if you think this war was about saving the US or helping the Iraqis. And remember that those lines that bump along the bottom far beneath Halliburton stock prices represent tens of thousands of lost American jobs and emptied retirement accounts.
Sherrie, there are alot of previous posts on this chain that claim that the military didn't make any sacrifices because they are an all volunteer army. They have made more sacrifice during this war than any other previous war because it was an all volunteer army. While I said I disagreed with this war and the reasons I would never turn my back on our men and women who serve. This isn't the only country that has profited from these wars yet the US is always the only one who is demonized. Get a grip. Iraq, even after this war has much more money from their natural resources that we do and they should start spending it to fix their own country. We got their evil leader and his sons for them now it's time for them to rebuild their country and make it what they want it to be. If they want it to go back to the way it was then fine, so be it. If not, get some balls and start fixing what needs fixing and make it what you want it to be. When this country fought for their freedom it took many years for it to be what everyone wanted it to be. If you have a problem with businesses profitting from the wars, then start paying attention to who you elect to represent you and vote for who is interested in changing the laws that need to be changed so this problem doesn't continue. We should all be blaming ourselves for sitting back and not paying attention to what they were doing. We are to blame hands down but refuse to take the blame ourselves. How closely did you pay attention to what your congressmen and senators were doing until now? I know it didn't pay as close attention to what they were doing all the time and now I'm paying the price like most Americans but unlike you, I'm willing to say that it is my fault and the fault of most Americans for most of what has happened to our economy. Why are stockholders not outraged that the companies they are investing in are giving millions of dollars to top executives in the company and when they do a bad job are given even more money when they are fired? Why aren't they pulling their money out of those companies and why aren't they outraged when the government is then giving them our tax money in loans to save their businesses? We are to blame. We haven't paid attention. We have acted helpless after the fact.
Kathy,
It should have been up to the Iraqis from the beginning to pull down their own dictator, and our military and our dollars should not have been involved. In your first post you talk about fighting for our own country's freedom, so why do you think the US should now run to every country where there is a bad guy in charge? Yes, I have been paying close attention to what my representatives and chief executive have been doing for quite a few decades. Unfortunately, a large percentage of the populace is easily fooled by rhetoric and much information is hidden by claims of "national security." Such was the case with the Iraq war.
So, do you criticize Obama for taking action with Libya? And, just to re-iterate an earlier post, someone posted on here that Obama got Hussein and ended the war - nonsense. As has been pointed out, Hussein was captured in Dec 2003 (remember the whole spider hole thing)...he was executed, I believe in 2006 - before NObama was even President. And the end of the war had already been established before Obama took office. The SOFA was signed between the US and Iraq in Nov 2008. Boy, the libs that post here on MSDNC really do stick to the party line and don't do their research nor do they think independently. Just keep on repeating what your liberal handlers keep telling you!!!!
Let ME rulers and Shiites and Sunni fight their battles. It is not our business to intervene in ME including Iran any more!
If Britain and French want to jump in wars (especially Iran) in ME, it is their problem. They get in, invent problems and run.
The War based on flat-out lies. It brought down the U.S. economy as a result of the higher fuel prices, along with the economies of most other countries. Thanks President Cheney. (Sarcasm) Dubya said Iraqi oil would pay for the war. Yeah, right.
Dubya meant Iraqi oil would pay him and Cheney and their buddies for the war, not the American people.
Yes, by President Clinton:
President Clinton demanding to a joint session of US Congress the passage of H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", justification of Weapons of Mass Destruction:
Let's see... Bush/Cheney used 9/11 as a pretense to invade Iraq. Fact.
The war in Iraq has cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of Americans wounded and maimed, destroyed our economy, ruined our international prestige, unified our enemies, and split our politics by a rift wider than the gates of hell.
Sad to say, but... face it... Osama Bin Laden got everything he was hoping for.
Bush and Cheney could not have served Bin Laden better if they had beards and camels.
David defending Bush by pointing out Clinton was furthering the policies of Bush Senior and then Bush W Jr. followed Clintons lead will fall on deaf ears.
People want to believe in the left right paradigm instead of seeing the truth evil exists in both parties and neither is invested in policies that will help the average American at all.
People don't understand that regime changes in America really is just a new face to further the agenda of bankrupting America for a global government and a global bank.
Face facts people as long as I can remember Presidents have talked about a New World Order.
That new world order is birthed through economy destruction, war, famine and pain.
Carbon taxes are to be paid to a one world bank and somehow connecting the dots of destruction always leads back to a bankster or someone owned by a bankster ultimatly tied to Goldmann Sachs.
David, be careful, facts have a tendency to confuse the liberal zombies that typically post on MSDNC!!!
We spent almost 10 years in Iraq and for what? Unless the USA de-mantles the MIC (military industrial complex) to a defense mode only, Congress and the White House will push us into other conflicts (Iran, Pakistan). War is big business! BTW I am ex-military veteran.
President Eisenhower warned us about MIC in the early 60's his words: "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." Jan. 17, 1961 (Farewell Address)
The only presidential candidate who wants to de-mantle the MIC: Ron Paul
Ike was the last intelligent Republican president. He would be drummed out of the party if he were here today.
Deb P, I would agree and point to an argument that supports your statement....the Republican's and media's treatment of Ron Paul because of his stance against the Military Industrial Complex. But let us not deceive ourselves, Obama is no different, and although this may be pseudo wrapping up (can't forget the thousands of contractors Obama is leaving and putting in place in Iraq) we are essentially moving our troops to other conflict areas at this point. So Obama will leave a legacy much like Bush, and it is time that we as Americans realize that, those of us that have served can see that.
We have gone from this:
2001 Defense Budget base budget $296.3 billion with another $13 billion in OCO (overseas contingency operations)
To this:
$708 billion spent this year 2012 on the Defense budget of that $154 billion was on OCO (overseas contingency operations) and oddly enough another $5 billion in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
dhenry-850819,
Eisenhower was a hypocrite. Without the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR, Eisenhower would never had become a Famous US Military General that got him elected to US President, and he would still be starving to death during the Great Depression along with everyone else after President FDR's New Deal To The American People Failed (US Government spending money that did not have to create jobs). The sales of the "War Materials" since 1939 is what got the US out of the Great Depression, after President FDR Nationalized All US Industry (start of the current US Military Defense Industrial Complex), Suspended All US Labor Union Activities, got the Insurance Industry out of the Medical Profession (decreased costs by 80%) and instituted his Universal Health Care for All US Citizens (US Citizens did not have to decide on either Medical Treatments or Food). During WWII President FDR instituted Nationwide the US War Department Study to Prevent Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants (all those things that the US Labor Unions claimed to have done, Safety, Child Labor Laws, Skills for Pay, Numbers of hours work, numbers of hours sleep, Saturday off (Jews Religious Worship), Sunday off (Christian Religious Worship), etc. as the US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era and their gains were wiped out by the Great Depression).
After he became President he chopped the hell out of the US Military Defense Industrial Complex, resulting in almost another Depression, the "Korean Conflict" (War) saved his arse. Unfortunately for Task Force Smith, because of President Eisenhower's chops to the US Military Defense Industrial Complex Task Force Smith did not have enough Anti Tank Ammunition to stop the North Korean Tanks, so they got massacred, thanks to President Eisenhower.
You can say "War Monger", that is just what happened as Historically Documented.
Really, was General Patton right about the Russians. Was General MacArthur correct about the Chinese. And how about that "Operation Wetback".
In consideration that Bushy's toushe is from texas, that cheney's halliburton resides there, as does BP's flunkiness can we by any miracle make Texas it's own private entity with no relation to the rest of the world.
Image Horse slaughtering would still be against the law, oil corps could no longer run this country unless the price came down significantly, and bankers would once again be held responsible for their own bank and the SEC would only be applicable on the mainland hence not manipulated by Texas oil!
Just a pleasant thought and wish I guess. Give um back the Alamo let them destroy themselves!
Not Ron Paul, maybe Dennis Kuccinich, Ron Paul is a racist POS.
@frank
Frank I believe you have just engaged in a complete lie and your avatar pegs what kind of person you really are.
Partisan hack much?
Ron Paul is a kind decent man who abhores people stomping all over the Constitution whether they put a D behind their name or an R and pretend to be just doing it for the kids or the people.
You called that one Silly Shrinks. I'm sure we would miss the rest of America here in one of the most economically stable states. It sure would hurt us with all this oil and what not. In 2008, for the seventh year in a row, Texas led the United States in export revenues. Texas exports for 2008 totaled $192.2 billion. In 2002, the Port of Houston was 6th among the top sea ports in the world in terms of total cargo volume; Air Cargo World rated Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport as "the best air cargo airport in the world". The ship channel at the Port of Houston—the largest in the U.S. in international commerce and the sixth-largest port in the world. I guess we will have to take our chances down here.
my avatar? I am a republican, I just can't stand how screwed up that party has become though. Let's see. Ron Paul, the guy who said that Jim Crowe laws should still be in place? That Ron Paul. The guy who gave money to David Duke (grand wizard of the KKK). That Ron Paul? Being a Republican doesn't mean being so power hungry you have to sabotage the other side. I didn't like it when the dems. do it to us and is no excuse to not work with a president.
Deb P....Andrew Jackson was the last intelligent Democrat president!!!!!
There is another parallel between Vietnam and Iraq.
The Vietnamese were fighting China for 2000 years, and America for 20 years. They are back to worrying about the Chinese again. The domino theory didn't hold. It's as if we had never been there.
The Sunnis (Arabs) have been fighting the Shiites (Persians/Iranians) for 1300 years, America for just 10. These also will go back to fighting each other as if we had never been there.
From the perspective of American interests, this is just "great", except for the potential for the disruption of oil flow.
As (or IF) these countries build a middle class that becomes "addicted" to materialist goals (cars, plasma TV's, iPhones), they will have a national interest in preserving peace, which means keeping oil sales going.
Other than that (and that is a big "that"), they are not a threat to America or Americans, because they will keep busy fighting each other.
The Arab/Persian/Turkish struggles to dominate the Middle East has been going on for over a thousand years. America involvement has been just a blip on the screen. Staying out of their ongoing competitions will give us a return to some financial normalcy.
K.C. Albak
You have a good perspective. But the war is not meant to be in the interest of either foreign or local population (iraqi's and Americans respectively).
Wars are self-serving for a tiny-tiny minority that profits from it. Only monsters and idiots could support such wars.
Just so you know, the Shia and Sunni are not nationalities nor ethnic groups but different sects of the same religion, just like Catholics and Lutherans. The difference is that, unlike other religions, Islam cannot be separated from secular life. It permeates everything in one's life. Not a judgment, just a fact.
This was not a war. Never was. It was a rediculous and evil republican/conservative agenda. It was a stupid decision made by moronic republicans and conservatives who were trying to get rich by making money for their businesses through contracts. So, basically our tax money goes through the government to make the republicans and their businesses rich. War is a front for republicans. For this war, it was for Bush and Cheney and co. to make billions, especially for Halliburton. Wake up America. This country and the world will continue to suffer and go downhill as long as the brainwashed citizens, who keep voting for the republicans, keep believing the lies of the republican politicians and then continue to vote for them. Stop voting for republicans. They are bad and selfish monsters. All they care about is themselves. I am not telling you to vote democrat either. There are bad democrats too. However, I believe that the bad democrats are actually republicans/conservatives in disguise, so they can secretly push the republican/conservative agenda through other means. That's how sick and twisted republicans are. They will do anything to lie, cheat, steal, control, and even murder our troops and other innocent citizens in other countries just to get rich, feel powerful, and make others believe their religion and aweful beliefs. This country will never progress until all republicans and conservatives are out of the government. You don't deserve the priviliges of this country and all its freedoms due to your lies, manipulations, and evil ways.
P.S. for all you presumptious and judgmental people out their, I am not a democrat either. I am a proud white American, who loves this country to death and would die for it for the right reasons. But not to make someone else rich and to look better. I totally believe in democracy, which does work, but you cannot force it onto another country, especially through war. Shame on everyone who voted for Bush, the republicans, the republican politicians, and the Bush himself. I don't know how any of you sleep at night knowing that you are a bad person and are lying to others. That is like China declaring war on us, bombing us, getting us to surrender, killing our leaders (like they did Sadam), and then making us become communist. I don't know about you, but I would not be ok with that, and we should not be ok with what we did with Iraq. I love every soldier that went over their (as long as they did not commit any crimes over their, such as rape, torture, stealing, et cetera) and I support our troops. I am glad they get to come home. I am so excited. I will always appreciate and be proud of our soldiers. We just need better leaders and avoid electing republican presidents and other presidents who are selfish and just want to make others believe how they believe and to make money. Shame on you republicans and conservatives. You don't fool me.
I will love to read the comments and people who respond to this post who are republicans and conservatives. If you don't agree with me and start calling me names, like socialist, it just proves my point. You are brainwashed. Wake up!!!!!! P.S. I am not a socialist. I am a proud American who believes in the Republic. Also, keep your religions out of our government. That is for another discussion, but that is what is also driving this country into the ground is the horrible republicans and conservatives trying to get elected to make everyone christian or whatever their religon is and push their religious beliefs onto everyone. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Any politician who makes decisions from their religion should be terminated immediately. It is not ok to create policies and laws based on religious beliefs. All you do is end up hurting and abusing others. Stop it. I hope Americans continue to see the truth about republicans and conservatives and quit voting for them. There may be a couple of good ones out there but how can you say your a good person and be a republican/conservative when your only agenda is to keep the rich rich and make the middle class poor and the poor poorer. That is an aristocracy not democracy. I see through you republicans. I hope everyone else can too. I am tired of me and others having to clean up your messes after you have a republican president or other republican leaders in office for years. It's rediculous. And, then, the republicans try to blame it on the democrats. It was your fault to begin with. The only people who believe your lies are the other republicans and conservatives who you have brainwashed already. You are sick and crazy. Please get out of our country if you are not going to do what is best for the country and the citizens.
Peace, love, and happiness is what it is all about.
The historical revisionist are hard @ work trying to spin the reasons why we went to Iraq... what a bunch of excrement! They're tryign to hide their folly, one that ruined 2 nations! Those of forced the lies down our throats should be held as traitors to liberty, tried and WHEELED. They are deserving of such an end!
This is the hard way to get an uncertain Trading Partner and a steady source of Fuel Oil. Wars used to be fought over land, ideals and (yes) religion; now it appears they are fought over economics and vendettas. If this be the case, I'm glad I'm older now.
Me, too.
Firozali----
Do you really believe that they have broken no laws?????
Haven't you ever heard it is illegal to conduct insider trading and gosh knows what else the former admin did illegally under the protection of the Oval Office??? You bet they did participated in illegal dealings!
Can I prove nah, but the gut knows as do WE THE PEOPLE!
Why do you think they hide?
Yes, Silly Shrinks, you "know" it...that just proves everything! Name a law that Bush broke...you can't. You mentioned insider trading...as unethical as it is, it's not illegal for the idiots in Wash, including the queen of idiocy, Pelosi, to invest based on their insider knowledge. How convenient that the lawmakers designed themselves a nice little loophole to get rich. Frickin' lawyers will screw you every time!
What the heck do any of the above responses have to do with my post? I intentionally mentioned no names or parties as there is enough blame to go around both parties, the United States, the UAR and Great Britain.
Thanks Dubbya (and Cheney)! Hope you sleep well.
Not saying that Saddam should not have been taken out by his own people but he was no threat to the U.S. We had no reason in being there and many thousands of lives were lost pointlessly as a result. It caused us to 'lose face' in the middle east (the little that we had left anyway). A war built on the lies of WMD. If it were not the U.S. but a third-world country that went to war with no evidence and killed the leader of an independent nation there would be international cries of condemnation.
And if you are one that lost a loved one in the Iraq war over the past decade please understand that it is not my intention to trivialize their involvement or your loss. I, and all Americans, are greatly indebted to the services of the U.S. military! The leaders however that send our military unnecessarily into an unjust and unfounded war should answer and be accountable for their decisions.
Little bunny, hop on over here and take a seat.
It is clearly visible that you did not hear that there WERE weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq. I should know, I was there! We came across several TONS of Ricin, Mustard gas, and various nerve and biological agents buried in a backyard. It takes less than an ounce of a biological agent, atomized, and spread with the wind to kill a city.... A single mortar shell can do this....
This war was not built on the lies of the president. It was sanctioned by congress... One more thing, When Sadaam was an ally of this country, we gave him WMD's, we also know that he has used them on various Kurd villages in the north of Iraq.. He could have avoided EVERYTHING if he only cooperated with th U.N. inspectors and complied with THEIR sanctions.
Now little bunny, it is time for you to hop along now and seek out the truth using the information that I have given you.
stupid post by dabugguy..ignoring that it was the NUCLEAR threat that was used to scare america, not some technical definition of "wmd" that included 10 year old chemical weapons that never threatened us.
I love how "blog lawyers" hide behind a technical definition of "wmd" and "conveniently" forget the propaganda campaign about nuclear weapons that got the nation behind the invasion to erase the "threat" from iraq. remember the nigerian yellow cake..the "mushroom cloud over our cities" that the bush administration kept going on about?
"In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion."
they did find some useless remnants of his original chemical weapons...wow..what a threat! lol. ""Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent." However, all are thought to be pre-Gulf War munitions.[115] . The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended"
now it is time for YOU to hope along and seek out the real truth that I have given you. :)
A little critical thinking please. By that definition most countries in the world have WMDs.
I understand saddam was "caught in the act" of stuffing FEDEX boxes full of chemical warheads to be 'delivered' to the US. NOW I understand the "threat" he posed to us. :)
I'm sure they sleep very well. Cheney, in particular, has no soul nor conscience.
cheney has no conscience...
dabugguy
Even Cheney admitted there were NO WMD's.
Really? I am so sick of hearing the bi-partisan responses all over the place. The American people sound like a bunch of idiots arguing about who has the better ideas when they all suck because they go to such extremes that it's hard to even justify what their goals are anymore! I apologize for the run on sentences. I agree that Cheney may have made some Americans mad but seriously? Come on. Add to the conversation, don't place random ridiculous remarks.
@dabugguy
So tell me, can you prove ANYTHING that you said or is it the same pack of lies that got us into this mess in the first place. You were there my a$$. I doubt if you even know where Iraq is.
rabbit 6,
Just read these US Laws (PROOF):
US LAW, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" with US Congressional Appropriations, as demanded by President Clinton during his State of the Union Address to a joint Session of US Congress, 1998. Justification WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings" of US Law H.R.4655 (scroll down to Section 2 "Findings"):
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
After all the lesser means of US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" (money still being appropriated by US Congress, 1998 to 2011, the US Law does NOT go away until the US Law is Accomplished). US Congress uses the Final Option, the US Military, by DECLARING WAR WITH IRAQ, with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations. The only valid excuse for a US President to NOT enforce a US Law, is if there is no money (US Congressional Appropriations).
US Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution:
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/wariniraq/a/jt_resolution.htm
rabbit, are you suggesting that it was OK for obama to help promote US involvement in this years arab spring? I keep seeing the image of obama giggling like a schoolboy setting off fireworks as he gave the orders to launch 100+ tomahawks at ground targets in libya. I found it interesting that after all those missle launches he allowed other NATO forces to continue the libyan ground assault with the backup of the US mediterraniun fleet.
Amusing also that obama supporters refuse to see the similarities in both action and thought with what bush2 did.
David....the war against Iraq was a Violation of International Law... in addition the United nations never authorized the use of force against Iraq......The invasion and subsequent occupation was naked aggression against a Soveriegn nation that has niether attacked us nor threatend us..nor did they have the ability to do so....
There was no formal delcaration of war from Congress...the last time Congress formally declared war on another country was in 1942.
Even so,,,just becuase a country declares war on another country does not prove justification for it and make it legal.
Every attack or invasion by Hitlers Nazi Germany was legal and justified under German law and was deemed necessary for protecting the homeland.
The Iraq war was fought for the war profiteers and western oil companies.....WMDS< Spreading Democarcy, regime change are just the rationales used to justify it to the population....
Rabbit, Libya and Ghadaffi were no threat to us, either...that didn't stop NOBAMA!!!!
They ousted Saddam but that was not the end of tyranny, oh no, they suffered nine years of tyranny at the hands of the US and her allies. And I wonder just how many billions of dollars the PMC's made rebuilding Iraq after the US demolished it.
one needs to remember that the soulless people who usually set the wars in motion never fight in them . The stand above us pointing fingers and making false remarks about our commitment to honor and glory ,telling us we need to fight for a justice that is more connected to their vanity and pocket book than to truth.
I do not blindly follow any party or group , but when we as a country allows the Cheney's, Rummsfelds, Macnamarras and such to have control and who are in no way like the 99.9% of us who are truly Americans then we will forever be stuck in and endless loop of conflicts , they allways have a boogie man in the wings and their starting to look inward at thous of us that would question their moyives
So all the US troops are out of Iraq. What about the 100s of thousands of US paid military contractors? Are they still there?
@ Jeff, yes that is the contingency plan, while they ship the troops coming out of Iraq to other conflict areas. On top of Afghanistan still going on, it appears that Obama added to the war mongering status of our country by bombing other countries within the area.
Of Course they are ---where do you think some kickbacks are coming from---in the meantime our soldiers still need mending, meds and treatment---whose going to pay for that-----will toushey pay for some--not!
Here is the question of the day. If the war is over what are they calling the pay for all the contractors that will still be there and the money they are spending to rebuild the Iraq Military? I suppose that is just another case of "foreign aid".
Can anyone say another bull crap claim of accomplishment by the loser Administration? It would be so refreshing if for once they and the liberal biased media would tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But of course being liberal they couldn't say "so help me God".
Sooooooo, onto Syria then? Or maybe Libya? Does anyone have a quarter!
This wasn't no formal shut down... We we're kicked out of the Country. I can't stand how the media will change a story to make President Obama look like he done something great and really didn't.
Who put us there I might add?
the funny thing is how many obama haters whine about how terrible he is for leaving iraq..and how many people whine about how he didn't actually do anything. lol.
Mr. Now!, many conclusions can be drawn from your inability to fluently type English grammar. I didn't read anything about being kicked out of the country and I don't see where the story was glorifying Obama really at all. It's a little something called self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm sure that, as you're trying to read this, you are steaming up your underpants. Here's the thing, IT HAPPENED, get over it and done finish your bon bons!
Chris-3950430
Who was winning the war the day Obama got inaugurated and who managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?
ANd who is planning on paying contractors to stay there for an indeterminate period. And who is planning on sending billions of our tax dollars to rebuild the Iraq military while they cosy up with Iran?
2 years, Baghdad will be under assault by a group that makes Saddam's regime look like the Cub Scouts. This is Vietnam circa. 1973. We will be dumping helicopters in the water 2014 to make room for contractors and refugees on our aircraft carriers. The only wars you can win are the wars you cannot afford to loose. That was not the case here. The only wars worth fighting are the ones you have to win.
Well, we did learn one thing from Vietnam this time. Even though Iraq is the same as Vietnam , we are NOT blaming the soldiers and spitting on them when they return, we are honoring them. We are putting the blame for this squarely on the shoulders of the ones who started it, Congress and the president.
I was never spat on after my return from Viet Nam, but I was given the cold shoulder quite a bit in the first few years. It was a long time before people began to realize that we were not to blame for that misguided war. It was two presidents (perhaps as many as four, going back to Eisenhower's original involvement), a compliant Congress, and an all too powerful military establishment that were to blame. Not unlike the Iraq War. It's gratifying to see that the public doesn't blame the current generation of troops.
Yeah but we boo them on public television when they say that they are GAY. Almost as bad as spitting. We keep learning hard lessons it seems.
And the idiot gop candidates said absolutely nothing about the booing, they condoned it.
I was spit on when I got into the terminal. I was called BABY KILLER by my own postmaster in the small town I grew up in, I went to school with his kids. When he died a few years ago, I went to his grave site and pi$$ed on it. Revenge is sweet.
Good for you!!! Its also ironic how all the spitters turned into yuppies and were the ones cheering on Bush and the war in 2003. "All those dayglow freaks that used to paint their face, they joined the human race, somethings will never change" -- Steely Dan
Starbuck - I can see you take pride in fighting in a war of National Liberation - too bad you were fighting on the wrong side. There is bravery and valor expended in the worst of causes. e.g. do you think there were no heroic soldiers fighting for the Third Reich? I was eligible to be drafted in Vietnam but luckily the propaganda against the war seemed more grounded in reality than the propaganda for the War so I CO'ed out.
I awore to follow the orders of the CIC and the Constitution of this country, whether the CIC be a good one or a bad one. How did the Third Reich come into play?
I was making the point that valor/courage have no moral component - you can be courageous and brave in a bad cause (3rd Reich.) You made your choice to follow order of the CIC - presumably this was done out of conscience (though to be honest, at the age this commitment was made you were probably no more than the product of American mythologizing.) I made my decision to not follow the orders of either LBJ or Nixon - I didn't think my decision was brave - nor do I think it was cowardly. I'd describe it as smart.
Ben R., I'm sorry about the way you were treated after Vietnam. It was wrong for so many to blame the troops for the war when it was the government who was to blame. I spent a lot of time trying to convince people of that fact. I protested the war, but I wrote letters to the troops thanking them for their service and wishing them well. What a horrible thing that war was, and it was all due to Cold War politics. The war in Iraq was no different. My son served in Iraq, so I am a military mom. I don't want the government to put my son nor anyone else's child in harm's way just because of some stupid political agenda. No more political wars!
Lol it's either political or religious, mam. I'd much rather have a political war than a religious crusade anyday.
Another thing they learned form Vietnam was to limit TV and media coverage.....Remember the atrocities that were shown on TV at the hand of the US soldiers in Vietnam( Little Girl with her clothes blown off etc etc) however in the Iraq war coverage of the war was sanitized and censored...... couldnt even show the coffins of the dead US soldiers returning from the wars....
The war propaganda was much improved for this war compared to Vietnam era coverage...
Starbuck 49
That behavior and comment show the true colors of Democrats. Who yanked us out of Viet Nam? Was that a Democrat? I have many friends that were in Viet Nam some wounded, all scarred in one way or another, but at least they didn't turn into bitter Liberals.
Uhhh, sorry, Chirs...all the spitters from the Vietnam era grew up to be hippies and college professors who only recently (once Obama took office) continued to HATE the military and HATE members of the military. Do you know why the stereotypical Democrat is weak on natl security and anti-military? Because for the past 40-50 years, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN WEAK ON NATL SECURITY AND ANTI-MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!
Another "crusade" and needless loss of life. Instead of utilizing the resources from this conflict and shifting them to Afghanistan where it should have been we now have a quagmire in Iraq that will descend into sectarian civil war, and the longest running conflict in our Nation's history that now has no chance in being resolved.
Afghanistan alone has lasted longer than WW 2, Vietnam, and even the American Revolution! Point being, is the entire middle east cannot ever nor will it see "peace" There will always be inequalities, injustices, and bitter conflict because the same archaic belief systems and culture has plagued the region for thousands of years.
The whole my mythical sky fairy is bigger than your mythical sky fairy, as well as religions crazed dated laws leads to endless injustices and tyranny. If history teaches us anything it's to stay the hell away from bat country....
Turning a page. As a country, what have we accomplished after the war is officially over and shut down? Had we cleaned WMD, no - because there is none. Did we root out terrorists. may be - most of them are on the run or down and out. Has the region become more stable, minimally - because the Middle East is a still a global hotspot for regional conflicts. Think about it, with all the money spent and the American lives lost in the war, we as a nation accomplished little and got a scar of war in the history of the country. Aren't we the Americans smart leader of the world? Are we looking better or worse in the global community of countries and their respective citizens? You tell me!!!
Kind of like Obama's 2009 stimulus package...with all the money spent, it accomplished little. Unemployment went over the promised 8% ceiling; shovel-ready jobs would be readily avail...yeah, how'd that turn out for us.
ANYONE BUT OBAMA, 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Debate all you want why we were in Iraq in the first place. Once we have been there eight and a half years we had a responsibility to leave honorably. We owed that to our deceased and wounded soldiers and our surviving troops.
Obama took took Honor away from our soldier's by not negotiating for his three years!!!!!
Vote soros, van jones, obama and the rest of their anti-American progressive's out in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I fail to see why we left without honor.
gt, because that entire region is now on the verge of going up in flames and we will be headed right back there soon!!!!
Obama took took Honor away from our soldier's by not negotiating for his three years!!!!!
The timetable for withdrawal was set in December 2008 by the shrub. What was there to negotiate?
Star rather than depending on what you read on this thread do a little fact checking on your own!
What fact is wrong in your opinion? Bish set the timetable for withdrawal.
Star when that time table was projected there was now way to know what the circumstances would be.
The agreement was not finalized, it was intentionally left open ended to accommodate the varying circumstances as the war was being wound down. obama made no attempt to negotiate until the last six (?) month. Those attempts were half hearted at best!
lol, gary is just an obama hater who would mindlessly try to twist anything against obama, no matter how inane.
we DID leave with honor in iraq. And his "justification" that "the whole region will soon go up in flames" is stupid, given our CONTINUED LARGE military presence in the gulf. Yes, soldiers left iraq..but they are still in kuwait, etc.
Let face it..anyone who uses the "obama is anti american" nonsense is a blithering idiot. You can disagree with his policies, of course, but that doesn't make anyone anti-american..unless you are a mindless hater like gary.
Gary K - your posts are ideological garbage - scolding starbuck about fact checking is beyond ludicrous given your babbling about honor. Here's a coin for you to flip Heads=Obama BAd Tails= You guessed it, Obama Bad.
vermont you are correct that I absolutely despise obama. You explain to me how all of obama's communist affiliation's benefit our country, then maybe you may win me over to the anti-American progressive side!!!!
lol, gary, I don't want to "win you over to the anti-american progressive side", i'm just making fun of your stupid posts.."anti american".."communist"..lol.
all you do is repeat mindless fox talking points. obama is a progressive keynsian who has spent far too much money..but that makes him neither anti-american nor communist..except in those haters who are so blinded by their hate that their IQ is approaching zero.
LMAO!!! I post you decide????
Gary
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf
Read in its entirety. BTW, you wouldn't know anything of communism if it bit you in the butt. I grew up in Vladivostok, been there, done that.
I did your homework for you. I'm done!
gary: I think we've all decided about you and the "quality" of your posts. LMAO!!!! (I put 4 ! to beat your 3!). :)
Were Frank Marshall Davis and Vernon Jarrett communist?
Is Anthony Van Jones a communist?
George Soros is capitalist who is intent on the destruction of Israel and the U.S.A. and will use any one regardless of ideology, to assist him in his efforts. Yes I am aware he is a Jew.
Cass Sunstein and Andy Stern (members of obama's cabinet) call them what ever you want additionally are anti capitalist determined to destroy our capitalist nation.
Bill Ayres and Bernadine Dohrn and rev. wright have fought for years against our government.
Yes I know rev wright was in our army but then again so was major hassan.
You can call these people what ever you choose communist works for me!!!!!
While you are unable to disassociate these people from obama you will need to stoop to the level of calling me names, you won't be the first!!!
Gary posts, Well, I guess we could call you a brainwashed ideologue but nitwit works for me!!!!!!
purrnel thank you for proving my point!!!
There is no way to leave a war with honor when that war was started without honor.
Deb get some more rest!!!
Gary, let me start off by saying, "you're an idiot" (mouthing it as I type to make sure it's more effective). Your opinions, as I read them, only made me laugh and remember why America is where it is today.....you're basically calling an apple an orange....I want to know who taught you about communism and politics because, apparently, there are many people who come from your same class who keep babbling on about the same thing at the local Walmart while they decide which moomoo's to put on their cattle. They're correct. Obama is using Keynesian theory and hoping that, through some government intervention, fiscal policy and trying to shift aggregate demand, the economy will prevail. Obviously, the market was failing because of the classical, monetarist style; we needed something different. Notice how this has nothing to do with either "party". Clinton had a keynesian perspective and we experienced a lot of job growth. Am I democrat? No but I know the facts! haha here's a fact: Gary, you need to read your facts and stop blowing smoke into peoples' crotches! Geez, can you do anything right?
LMAO Cj you may have (?) read my post but you failed to address my contention, typical obama troll tactic!!!
You should join Deb in getting more rest!!!!
haha obama troll.....I voted McCain, though I think that would have been a mistake as well. I didn't want to address your contention....contention, or intention? I couldn't tell whether you were debating or trying to inform. Nevertheless, your "contention" was that we left without honor? Where are your facts? lol I fail to see them.....this is you....left without honor.....communist....obama sucks.....you're either an Obama hater or an Obama lover....I'm an Obama hater....go to sleep? What? I think I followed it pretty well! I was just following your pattern, Mr. Confusing-pants! Here are the facts about war....there is only little honor in it. People fight, people argue, and people die in hopes of creating a better outcome for themselves, for other people, or both. There's your honor. No matter how we would have left, one side would have found a "contention" and argued it to the death like you; it happens all the freaking time and I'm sick of it. Haha so the Obama lover comment? Wha?? You only prove my point now, Mr. Contention. Have I called you many names now? Yes. Am I going to continue answering my own questions? Yes, if I'm the only one who can answer them intelligently without bias.
ROFLMFAO!!!! CJ I will leave you to yourself, you deserve each other, ROFLMFAO, again!!!!!
(Takes a bow) And so endeth the Gary regime.
Anyway, communism stems from socialism, which is where fools get their radical mumbo jumbo. It doesn't mean that they are interrelated, just that we haven't done a good job in educating our country. There is honor in war, it's just hard to justify; our war sought to achieve a better world for Iraq because they were led by a tyrannical mustachio'd man, though there were several other goals that were classified to the public. This is a good example of bi-partisan argument at its best and, I think, we should all allow Gary to syphon some of the funds from FAFSA to go back to school to get a degree in politics and U.S. government so that he's better at arguing his points. haha sorry, I had to get one more jab in there. Seeya folks! Catcha next time on (theme music) the this is where I go when I'm bored and want to argue with mindless fools when I'm done reading the news post!!
Gary just got reamed....its sad he doesn't even realize it.....LOL....LOL....SMH!!!!
gt-2299241
When you sacrifice thousands of American lives and tons of money we can't afford, then do such a piss poor job of diplomacy and follow through that the turkeys you defeated end up telling you to get your butt out and you put your tail between your legs and leave, but leave behind very expensive contractors and promises of tons of more money, I'd say that adds up to dishonor both to those lost and wounded and to the citizens who have suffered the loss of those troops and the debt incurred.
Since this administration has no honor or regard for our Constitution, it probably doesn't dawn on them or their supporters.
CJSparks
This quote comes from the White House record of Clinton and Gore:
"In 1993, President Clinton and Vice President Gore launched their economic
strategy: (1) establishing fiscal discipline, eliminating the budget deficit,
keeping interest rates low, and spurring private-sector investment; (2)
investing in people through education, training, science, and research; and (3)
opening foreign markets so American workers can compete abroad."
Note Obama has done the opposite of the first two and as for the third, well how do you think all our jobs got overseas? A short spurt traded for the loss of millions of jobs to foreign coutries. Hmmm, two steps forward that Obama won't do then one giant leap backwards.
wasnt the plan laid out by Bush to have the troops out of Iraq by the end of the year in 2012?
Absolutely! with the expectation there would be stabilizing troops to be left behind, numbers and duration to be left negations, which obama refused to do!!!!
You are correct. But if you want to get political both Gingrich and Romney favor continuing the war so that being said, the President the people elected is at least responsible for being the choice that ended this war. If Bush's plan was say 2013 and either of those guys are in office, there would still be no end in sight.
Chris, if I recall right Obama wanted the troops to stay ,but not face charges from Iraq for any wrong doing. it was the Iraqi government that said no and told us to take our troops out.
Obama was one of the few Senators who voted against this war. He did say that yes but I am inclined to believe he wanted us out. He ran on that if you remember, and he did not support this war as a Senator. So I think we can say, Obama was not an Iraq war supporter.
Iraq wanted to take away the immunity of our troops after December and prosecute them in Iraqi courts. If you were the CIC, would you let them stay and be prosecuted, or would you say goodbye, we're outta here?
The Iraq Status of Forces Agreement]</ref> The pact required criminal charges for holding prisoners over 24 hours, and required a warrant for searches of homes and buildings that were not related to combat.[1] U.S. contractors working for U.S. forces would have been subject to Iraqi criminal law, while contractors working for the State Department and other U.S. agencies would retain their immunity. If U.S. forces committed still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they would have been subjected to an undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certified the forces were off-duty.
drat that obama for protecting our troops from vengeful iraqi prosecuters! He should be exposing them to the iraqi "justice" system to satisfy haters like gary who want us to "leave with honor" (in some unspecified way). lol.
offending three obama trolls is a good start to my day!!!
Bush had no exit plan. He lived in a fantasy world where the "good guys" beat the "bad guys" butts and return home heroes living happily ever after. I seem to remember a very premature "mission accomplished" emanating from his lips.
Gary, we could not leave with honor because we didn't go there in honor. We went there based on the Bush/Cheney lie machine. Get over yourself.
What I have a hard time getting over are obama's trolls!!
Gary's counter-trolling just dont feed it.
"He lived in a fantasy world where the "good guys" beat the "bad guys" butts and return home heroes living happily ever after."
I don't want to be stereotypical but I wouldn't doubt rick perry would be the same :P
Deb, please recheck your facts and refer to the Status of Forces Agreement that was signed November 29 (?) 2008, between the US and Iraq. This particular SoFA is considered unique because it was the first time an exit date was specified in this type of agreement. The exit date was December 30, 2011. Although this agreement had been in the works for some time, it was signed after Obama had won the election, before he took office. While I think Bush 2 was an incompetent idiot who should never have been elected, I have to wonder if he went ahead and signed this because of a misguided attempt to "look good" in his last days, or if he somehow had a momentary vision of sanity and realized that Obama would never live up to his promises of having our troops out by the end of 2009. Either way the fact is that without a new SoFA, Obama had no choice but to remove the troops by the end of 2011 and deserves no accolades for doing so other than he actually followed the laws and agreements pertaining to this unnecessary war.
Oil's well that ends well.........
You win the "you made me laugh" this morning. Thank you. BTW we should get out of all this genra countrys. We are never going to win over religious zealotry. Never have never will. Vietnam 2.0.
chuckler - Curly said that in the same episode where he said Da oily boid gets da woim. Nyuck, Nyuck.
8 years, $800 billion dollars and 4,500 casualties later and we have $4.00 a gallon gas prices to show for it.
Thought we caught Saddam in 2003 and executed him in 2006. Any reason why we didn't leave the country then? *cough, oil* After all, the whole idea of invading Iraq was because they had WMD and Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda *cough, oil* Dubya was smart enough to play the al-Qaeda card to garner public support for his bloodthirsty quest for oil, er I mean, invasion of Iraq and the American sheeple went along with it., stupidly voting the baboon in for a SECOND and final blow-to-the-economy term. Too bad this gigantic lie cost the American taxpayer massive amounts of money that should've been put to use right here at home for health care, education, social programs....you know, the unprofitable aspects of our society.
And all those sacrifices for what? Middle-Eastern folks, particularly Muslims, aren't the least bit interested in adopting our Western ways, which is something we mistakenly have tried to force down their throats for decades now. They gave us that message loud and clear on 9/11. They want no part of our way of life, yet there we go, sending troops out to the Middle East to try and domesticate savages who have no desire to become civilized human beings. They like being the epitome of stone age ass backwardness in all its glory. Its in their DNA. Its in their culture. Its in their blood. They like treating their women worse than cattle. They like praying for the death of all infidels (read: anyone who's not a Muslim). They like their barbaric lifestyle. Who are we to say otherwise and who are we to demand they conform to OUR ideals? The U.S. never gave a damn about spreading democracy or freedom. Hell, our own citizens and our own freedoms are under direct attack from our own gov't. Anyone who's travelled lately will vouch for that.
If we are unable to uphold the integrity of our own Constitution and Bill of Rights for our own citizens, what makes us think we'd be able to do that for citizens of other nations?
867-5309----JENNY
We did not or ever will try to force "Middle Eastern Folks, Muslims, or as you say, people who like their barbaric lifestyle" to adopt "our" western ways. Sadaam was sitting on his solid gold toilet and had 24-7 electricity and communications for all of his palaces, while the subjects of his "empire" did without for the majority of the day. How can you say that we tried to force them, when we had Rules Of Engagement that tied our hands behind our backs until we were shot at.. These ROE's were thought up and given out by a majority democrat congress and senate. If we REALLY wanted to force them to adopt our western ways, it would be as simple as destroying ALL of their mosques and demoralizing them... We did not shoot at a single mosque...
Also, you need to get some Robotussin(OC) for that oily cough of yours... I cannot believe that there are still people out there that still believe that we went in for the oil... We have not seen drop number one of oil from that country, the same goes for when we saved Kuwait back in 1991...
To answer your question as to why we didn't leave in 2006. Does the name Al Zowkary (or however the hell you spell his name) ring a bell? look him up and you will find a bad Mother Fu(shut your mouth!!)
You imply that we started this and they retaliated with 9/11... My poor misguided lost soul, they STARTED this ball rolling with 9/11!!
Lib in Oklahoma said it best : Naw....we would NEVER have had ulterior motives *cough, oil* for invading Iraq. No...not the Bush administration. Please...
Lib in Oklahoma - SOS!
Good! Now Iraq can start paying us back the $900 gazillion we spent on this war - remember, W and Dickie said it wouldn't actually cost the U.S. anything because Iraq would be able to pay for it with all the oil reserves they have! Get the invoices ready!
sir cockroach- you sure spout a bunch of made up stuff. your 'wmd' post further up is patently false. EVERY verifiable report of nerve gas and chemical agents found in iraq document trace amounts of old unusable chemicals. not TONS. not any threat to the U.S.
we were going to war with Iraq long before 9/11 happened. read woodward's book about the first 100 days of Bush's presidency, published before 9/11. there are long sections about how to start a war with Iraq. Cheney is quoted REPEATEDLY arguing for an invasion. then AL Queda, a bunch of ragtag religious warriors trained and financed by George HW Bush's CIA, launched the 9/11 attacks from Saudi Arabia before retreating to the caves on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Over and over again, there has been shown there was ZERO connection between Sadam and Bin Laden, yet still you argue that IRAQ started 9/11?
talk about drinking the Kool-Aid.....jesus, i really hope you aren't bright enough to properly vote, an intentionally dulled mind is a terrifying thing.
Jenny...what about the 500k to 1 mm Innocent Iraqi death you falied to mention in your post ...do their lives matter?? What about the atrocities comitted by our side In fallujah where we used white phosperous and depleted uranium on the civilian population, look at the atrocities and sick torture that was exposed at Abu Garaib at the hands of US Soldiers,,,,,how many innocents have been killed in Afganistan at the hands of the US??? We leave Iraq in shambles after almost 9 years of a brutal occupation by the US... millions injured, dead, maimed for life, millions displaced, their countries infrastructure destroyed so why in hell should they have to pay us back>>>??? .....so how are they less civilized than us???
I was looking at the photo above of Mr. Obama. Carlos Mencia is right!! He DOES look like Curious George!!
9 out of 10 racists agree with you that obama looks like a monkey.
You got it wrong Vermontguy, You are putting words in my mouth, I said Curious George.
BTW, why didn't you go after jenny above my post for calling G.W. a baboon?
I'm just stating that he looks like a cartoon character. There is nothing racial about that... besides, would it be racial for saying he looks like ohhhh saaay Beetle Bailey?(Another cartoon character), because he is half white? Get a grip...
Sooooo run along now Vermontguy and nail your lips to a maple tree and suck syrup....
lol, "put words in your mouth"? all I did was point out that curious george is a monkey, and that racists like to call AA people monkeys (and similar) as a racist slur.
"The books feature a curious brown monkey named George, who is brought from his home in Africa by "The Man with The Yellow Hat" to live with him in a big city."
I didn't call you a racist, just pointing out that racists would agree with you. :)
Calling a caucasian person a baboon isn't racist, unlike calling a black person a monkey, hence your question about jenny is, well, stupid. :)
soooo run along now bugguy and nail your lips to your racists friends and suck...
Are you even AA? And i can see you are just trolling on everyone this morning....Troll below...
Oh, I see you made it past 2nd grade storytelling. Answer me this, what is an AA person and why would racists call them monkeys? I don't have any racist friends to ask, and being half black and half white myself, if I were a racist, I would be hating on myself... However, since you quoted that nine out of ten racists would agree with me, I deduce that you are that tenth racist that disagrees. I am asking you as a friend, what is an AA person and why do racists call them monkeys?? I guess this is something that only racist people would know and regular folks like me don't. So please inform me/us... Because you obviously know.....
Vermontguy friend, how do you want me to nail my lips to you while you are sucking that syrup??? tacks, staples, or pennyweight.
AA stands for Alcoholics Anonymous, so are you talking about Alcoholics all looking like Curious George?
This whole war feels like a drunk one night stand (let's be honest...quite a few of us know what I'm talking about):
At first, in the midst of the blur and heat of things you're all for it...think it's a good thing, and aren't really against it. But when it's over and you look around and realize what all happened, you regret it and feel empty inside and wonder why the hell you did it in the 1st place.
Wow good analogy! Who knows really what it was all about (I highly dought oil because we get most of it form Cananda). The middle east is a scary place and I hate to see people suffer over there at the hands of there religious and political leaders but they do so much in fighting of thier own. They wan't "thier rule" and not anyone esles. It is just one religous faction ruling over another and all these wars do is take one horror out of power for it only to be replaced by another.
I just feel really bad for the women over there. They will always be second class citzens no matter who's in power. Though I must say I am not to upset about the Taliban leaving Afganistan. I think that was some what of a "win" if you can call it that.
Correction, our country imports 50% of our oil supply from the Middle East. Oil from Canada is considered poor grade and expensive. OUr government wanted their oil and wanted to convert the Muslims into Christains and changed their form of government into democracy. 9/11 was the result of their rejection.
A new chapter where the shia majority in Iraq will now support the mullahs in Iran. Thanks George Bush.
How much more do you expect our country to do for the world. We didn't turn our backs when we needed to be there, ask the over 4000 dead american military that gave their lives. Sen McCain comments are disgraceful. In case he forgot he lost the presidency to Mr. Obama. He says we are leaving because of a campaign promise. Well Senator America agreed and you lost. We can't afford any more of our boys to die in a country that will never be completely stabilized. The Iraqis need to take care of their own country. We also have many problems here. Focus your attention to creating more jobs for our country, on our economy, on taking care of our returning heroes. I served four tours in the desert, enough already. Respect your president respect our heroes and move on. In case you don't get it : "I'm one Republican that will be voting for Obama and it's because of idiots like you that just don't get it." I served my country for over 20 years, now i'm forced to fight for my country not from terrorist but from the greedy idiots that are running our congress. Your comments do no justice to America, you do have your opinion, however remember the rest of the world listening.
Luis, thank you. Our Military leaders are very intelligent, readers of history, learners of lessons, so why is it that we continue to think that you can invade a country and forcible give them a democracy. Unfortunately in this part of the world, they are not ready to self govern. Sometimes a strong dictator is the only thing that stands between peace for 90% of the population, or all out civil war, starvation and crippling instability. Its not something that American Politicians seem to get. They lump all people into a nice pretty pile and seem to believe what works here will work anywhere, and it just doesn't and never will. Its time for Ron Paul and President Obama to bring this foreign policy debate into the light of day. Let the American people decide the path of our country. You can still exert influence and have a strong and affective foreign policy without invading countries.
McCain has "been in Iraq" since 9/11:
"www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/aug/21/barack-obama/mccains-record-on-iraq-eager-to-attack/"
Amen. As a military mom, I'm thrilled that my son will no longer be a target for people who don't want us in their country. Mr. McCain, you need to have an attitude adjustment.
Deb where do you live, Iran???
Wait, Hold on a second here....
SO WE DIDN"T FIND ANY WMDs????
Listen to all these extreme left wing liberals post all these anti American pro Iraq words. Some of you people are pure scum!
VexViper...please read my previous post. While I support the American troops who fought and died for the capture of Saddam H. You cannot deny that the end result of this war is somewhat questionable. There were no WMD as professed by the Bush administration, and the ruling majority in the new government ended up being Shiite, which is a sect of the Islamic religion that hates the U.S. and hates the western world.
So, like it or not, there will always be questions raised as to whether or not we should have gone in there, and whether or not it was all worth it.
@j. merle stanly
To say NO WMD was found in Iraq is a fabrication we did find wmd and hundreds of tons of precursor ingredients.
Also to make a distinction of Shiite vs Sunni hating the west and America I'm not sure the average Muslim in the Middle east has ever been or ever will be pro-American.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
Its about time. 9 years too much, 4500 wasted lives for President Bush's vendetta.
Hey Mike,
You can thank President "I'll-Blame-Ya" for 4 of those 9 years. After all, he's the one that said he was going to end it "sooner rather than later". 4 years isn't a whole lot sooner. You may want to throw your political stones outside of that glass house you're standing in.
I agree! And the whole world too. Only some bigoted frustrated hypocrites will criticize this move. If they are so "God-loving and God-fearing" (supposedly), they should thank God for stopping this absurd war and start to pray for our sick, injured, traumatized soldiers and their families who gave their best to this useless, baseless, outragously expensive (more than giving health care to poor american children) and hidden-agenda loaded war. That is the patriotic thing to do. If the supposedly christian GOP worry so much about our interests in that region, now is the time to shut up and get on their knees and pray for our nation. That is what genuine Christians do.
Thank you Lord for the end of this war and Thank you Obama.
I stopped reading all the comments here about racist hateful crap while I was looking for the posts about being thankful that this day has finally come!!!I am sure there are probably many thankful posts but I couldn't stand reading all the negativity so I quit looking! I know many soldiers who are grateful that our country could help try and bring some peace to Iraq and with all the horrible things they saw while there they were more than glad to help such a vicious country. I applaud the United States for the help they gave and I am sorry our Country is in need for much revision with the homeless, poverty, greed and such that it faces daily.. but I am also thankful that we don't live in a Country like Iraq!
The loss of life is tragic and after nine years it has finally supassed the number lost on 9/11. It has also gone just higher than the number of babies killed each DAY in the name of privacy. We lost our moral compass long before the Iraq war, it was confirmed lost in 1973 when we made killing babies a right. Currupt politics leads to military death, currupt morals leads to dead babies.
Not At All,
How do you figure 4 years? Obama is coming up on his 3rd full year in office, January 20, 2009.
How do you come up with 4 years, or is that your way of trying to put blame on Obama for Bush's phuckup?
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld lied and 4500 US died. No WMD ever found. US built a better infrastructure, medical clinics, etc for them at a cost of US taxpayers. Military not out...contracted under State Department...many running around there yet! Were we to be paid off in oil? If so, where is it....or did it just make the Bush's and their friends that much richer. Stupid Americans, when will we ever learn. No wonder we are tanked.
@NotAtAll
Just be happy we are finally out of there maybe? And why blame Obama for having our troops there? Who put us over there? Bush. Who kept us in there for 5 of the 9 years? Bush. Why not think before you bash Obama and join in on the stereotypes. There is only so much you can do in 4 years. Want to find a real solution? Expand the term limit to 4 terms, that way good presidents can actually get stuff done. Then write to your senator and complain to him for voting down good things only because of the fact it was proposed by someone from another political party.
"The common man's a fool"-H.L. Mencken