Actually, we did not claim "self-defence". It was an acknowledged error on the part of the crew (fog of war incident during an engagement with Iranian surface craft) and, if memory serves, we offered reparations to the families.

Iran patrols its coast daily and has for years. If I had US warships near me, I'd send recce planes over them, too. No big deal and certainly no threat.

You are oblivous to the fact that you may leave and move anytime you would like to... I for one still remember all the things Iran has done as well as the oppresion of its people. But stuff like that doesn't matter to you does it? We are not perfect but hey if you don't like the USA ,haul ass Pal!! God Bless OUR Troops and God Bless America

Take a look at a map of the middle east, Iran is completely surrounded by US military forces - who's threatening who?

Not since Nazi Germany has such a band of pyscho murderers controlled a country like the Ayatollahs and their perverted Islamic revoluiton in Ira.They`ve committed terroist attacks son 6 nations and are now buliding a nuke bomb to continue their nazl like huffing ang puffing.An in what name? Crazed sharia jihad Iranian world conquest and wiping countries off the map. The world won`t wait as long as it did to finish off the Nazis.An attck is imminent.and by a multinational coalition. Most of the world will cheer when the Ayatollahs are sent packing anf when their nuke bombs are destroyed. Several navies are watching Iran right now.If they try anything funny ..it`s curtains for Iran.!

Iran kind of started this whole tempest in a teacup by threatening to shut down the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz. Whether it was an attempt to play to domestic politics (whip up sentiment against the Great Satan) or reap some economic gain (increased price of oil), only the mullahs know for sure.

They do have the ability to disrupt for a short period the flow of ships through the Strait. If only Russia and China would be at risk from a disruption, I would invite the Iranians to make good on their threat.

Unfortunately there would be other collateral consequences, so maybe we should charge a protection tariff?

Iran is shooting film of our Carrier battle group, that and their mouth is the only thing they are shooting off; they are not stupid, only crazy, one launch of a torpedo or missile, and Iran would be lit up like a forest fire.it would take about a half-dozen torpedo's to disable a carrier. ( during ww2, it took 8 to sink the Lexington)

"The U.S. is not in a position" to affect Iran's decisions...

But we can sure do something about their actions. I just hope we don't have to.

I would suggest we pay off the $3.7 TRILLION we still own on the wars we have been in since 9/11 before we go start another one.

I guess most of you are missing the point here. Iran is saber rattling for their people to get them fired up in some kinda patriotic fervor. I hope that when they stick their weapons where their mouths are that we poke a few bunker busters into their nonexistent weapons building facilities, and save a couple for the leaders of this bunch of criminals.

Roger,

I don't dismiss your points here but it was the Iranians who brought this to the press not the U.S. If we were trolling up a reason to attack the situation would likely have unfolded differently.

Skepticism is good though.. It keeps people asking tough questions. A good question might be what does Iran have to gain by this game of brinkmanship? You can be sure this was carefully thought through by the Iranian government.

This is like my dog barking at the garbage truck. When the truck drives away, the stupid dog thinks he chased off the evil imperialist truck. ;)

An oxymoron "innocent Iranians"? Kind of like saying "Roger Francis and lucid thought" in the same sentence.

The real 'truth' on the civilian airliner that was shot down is this:

1. It used an F-14 transponder code - a RADAR image to tell anyone tracking the plane what kind of aircraft it is.

2. It was a one-way suicide flight - the 'dead' that washed ashore were already dead. The Iranians emptied their morgues and put those bodies on the plane. If the US did not shoot it down, the plane was designed to fly into the USS Bunker Hill (a guided missile cruiser)

3. It was short lived in the headlines. If the plane was actually carrying 'pilgrims' as Iran stated, there would have been more international condemation. There was none. There wasn't even a comment by the UN.

Iran is always probing and plotting. They look for any weakness or admission of vulnerbility. Make no mistake, we will be attacking Iran within 24 months, but it will be because the Iranians provoked it, and there will be a smoking gun to go with it.

We are just getting close enough to release our dolphins, that can surveille, attach bombs if things get ugly, attach tracking devices, alert us to mines. Do not worry about the Iranians copying this tactic Dolphins do not understand,Persian or Farsi.lol

Theses ops have been in place since the 60s, and have taken many painstaking years to evolve to where they are now. Catching up would be difficult,if not impossible.

Can you say, Sic em flipper!!

Did you stay up all night thinking up this spin? What an imagination.

How 'bout some sharks with friggin' laser beams. I imagine Iran has already implemented this type of maritime warfare tactic

Telling people to leave their native country if they don't like the military policy it undertakes is not only the most unamerican thing you can do, it is a cop out to group think and forfeiture of your intellectual capabilities. The true patriot is the person who loves their country inspite of the mistakes it makes; not the person who remains blind to the mistakes, in order to love their country. And why should I leave, it's my country, too, whether you like it or not, and I'm not leaving a bunch of pig headed parrots to oversee our nuclear arsenal, for the same reason I don't want a bunch of pig headed parrots in Tehran having a nuclear arsenal.

That said. This is all hype. Who cares if Iran closes the straits of hormuz? Iran won't do it. Iran would lose it's navy in 3 hours, totally, if it did that. There are cheaper ways to get rid of capital than provoking the us navy into obliterating you. One American carrier(and we have 12) has more air power than 80% of the world's air forces. Not too mention they all travel with a battle group that includes atleast two submarines, and all kinds of surface warfare assets. Iran knows this, they are just trying to make the news. And flex muscle. Don't fall for the hype.

We are just getting close enough to release our dolphins, that can surveille, attach bombs if things get ugly, attach tracking devices, alert us to mines. Do not worry about the Iranians copying this tactic Dolphins do not understand,Persian or Farsi.lol

Theses ops have been in place since the 60s, and have taken many painstaking years to evolve to where they are now. Catching up would be difficult,if not impossible.

Can you say, Sic em flipper!!

Fa love Pa.

Tim,

I hope you were being satirical. If not you are the epitome of why I think many religious people are bat-**it crazy, which you make you the king/queen of that category.

@Pablo; LMAO, priceless.

How about an 'ill-tempered' Sea Bass with a caricature of the prophet Mohammed painted on it?

How 'bout some sharks with friggin' laser beams. I imagine Iran has already implemented this type of maritime warfare tactic

Sorry just mutant sea Bass

It really doesn't matter too much anyway. In another 20 years every country will have the ability to build nuclear bombs. Iran, although not an ideal country was a country formerly occupied by a US puppet, the Shah. Like the founding fathers in AMerica, the Irani's through out the puppet government and created their own. We didn't like it, because we lost control over some colonialized oil. However, had the roles been reversed, we would have duplicated what the Irani's did. The US and its colonial expansion mentality based on democracy where votes are controlled by corporations is a system failing and probably rightfully so. It was a system based on free natural resources stolen from others by force as was most of colonialization whether done by Dutch, French, Spanish, English or Portuguese. In the end, most countries don't like being occupied. Iran didn't like the Shah, and CHile didn't like the murderous Pinochet that the US set up in that country. Nicaragua got tired of the puppet Somoza family and ousted them. Marcos family lost out in PI even though we fought hard to keep the crooked puppet. The world is not particularly safe, and as each technologically advanced country invents new and better ways to kill others, those underneath them become educated and duplicate the experiments. It is probably not if, but when before a real big even triggers some bigger ones. "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." There is no such thing as "peace through strength" until one can define clearly what defines "strength."

I'm starting to think that the Middle East just doesn't want to do any work.

They don't want to work on building balanced societies. They don't develop industries. They don't develop political institutions( but extreme ones). They just want to live off the oil they pump out the ground with Western Technology while they sit on their arses or abuse their women or the other religious minority like it is sport. They want to hold us hostage over oil. The only forceful efforts they make has oil management in sight and/or oil control in mind.

I'm sick of it, that's all I ever heard about since I was old enough to watch TV.

I sure would like to see the Western Nations develop green industries and stop depending on these people. We can do it, technology is advanced enough for it. Then the ME can have true revolutions.

@Pablo; LMAO, priceless.

Thank god someone got it.

The Airbus mistake is a perfect example for not provoking the United States of America. Another one is Saddam pretending to have weapons he didn't possess. I guess they call it saber rattling. Rattled your saber and receive a Tomahawk.

Iran fought Iraq for eight years to a stalemate. The US cut through Iraq like a hot knife through butter. I'm sure that wasn't lost on them. I can only imagine how outdated their equipment is.

He added that the "foreign fleet will be warned by Iranian forces if it enters the area of the drill."

Ok

The USS John C. Stennis aircraft carrier is seen as it allegedly went "inside the manoeuvre zone"

So they did do it, but you didn't warn?

State TV showed what appeared to be the reported video, but it was not possible to make out the details of the carrier because the video was shot from far away.

I bet you were pretty far away. With your head down. Tail tucked firmly between your @ss cheeks. Chanting "Allah Akbar please don't let them see me."

I'm surprised they didn't Google up a nice up close video of the Stennis and claim they were able to sneak up that close.

@ Pablo; Yes I wondered how many would get it myself,but that was great.

If Iran actually believes that attempting to choke off traffic in the straight is "within it's defensive agenda", it is surely mistaken. The reaction would be swift. The Iranian 'navy' would cease to exist within 24 hours. They are foolish to think their navy is on equal footing....

Em...

Roger. A point of History. We entered Vietnam when Eisenhower sent the 1st Special Forces Group there in 1954.

"Kennedy got us into Vietnam" is simply wrong.

The Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution just formalized the thing and let us send conventional forces there. We were there already.

Sorry "Kennedy or Johnson or whomever you want to blame"

Besides, the two incidents actually did happen.

Also, as anyone in the best navy in the world knows that has traveled thru there. The Iranian gun-boats always come out and challenge our warship's!! It's been going on for a long long time, but now with the internet/media generation, you all think that it's some end of the world shlt. Our military was so much better when every wuss who never served weren't daily interjecting their personal feelings about the goings on of a military world!!! These thing's play out, ALL THE FREAKING TIME! Where's the headline's about Russian Bear Foxtrot's buzzing our Aircraft Carriers?

Brad-2092941 get your facts straight. US never claimed responsibility and it took eight years for the US to pay reparations (because of a lot of international turmoil over the shooting and the taking of the US to international court over the issue). The money was only paid to the victims, and never was the plane paid for by the US. We initially claimed self defence and that the plane was acting like an F-14. For shooting down an airliner we actually gave metals to the captain and operations officer. () It is another disgusting incident in American history.

Folks, the political stance of either your for us or against us is asking normal human beings to set aside their intellect, ethics, morals and humanity to ignorant peer pressure. Why is it Iran feels like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.

Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..

Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars? All the disinformation trolls will be out in force (you know who you are, they are the trolls that can only resort to ridiculing those who speak out against war and have never even been in a school yard fight much less have held their best friend in their arms while he died for another Wall Street venture) to try and sell you on this war just like they did with Iraq. Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?

Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.

Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger

I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Marlen from 2:29pm gets first prize! You pointed out the REAL reason we invaded Iraq.

Iran is forgetting that sometimes when you play with fire, you get burned!

You're right Geowil. The 6th trumpet prophecy could never happen. Just being saterical. All the prophecies before it have come to pass which is 10 the the almost unknown nth power. But, pretty sure you're right WW3 could never happen. Daymn... your good!!

I don't like the iranians but I think that this is a ruse. Iran has probably been sending out this propoganda for years and is now just being picked up by the media. Its likely Iran is close to nuclear weapons so now is the time to bomb the hell out of them and blame it on this issue.

This is a "so friggin what" , story. The US navy tracks and monitors ships ALL the time, in all oceans all over the globe. We over fly every moving and non moving item of interest every day. We record sonar images of every foreign ship that moves to capture the acoustics of each individual ship and sub of every nation in order to ID any ship that we possibly can at any time just by the unique sound that a propeller makes. Like a fingerprint, they all are different.. Russia does the same thing. So why whine about Iran doing to us what we do to EVERYBODY every day, and have done the same for decades...........

Good ol' Roger, drops his propaganda bomb and runs.

Hello folks, our country is broke and weary of war. Let’s take an objective look at the Iran situation. Ask yourself, what would happen if Iran attacked an oil refinery in the US? Of course we would go into Iran and bomb their country. Well, we recently bombed an Iranian oil refinery and they didn’t retaliate. We issued sanctions on their oil and export industries and they didn’t retaliate. Why is that?

While appearing vulnerable they took control of the most sophisticated drone on the planet downloaded and deciphered the encrypted information and have our Military intelligence (I know it’s an oxymoron) people worried that top secret information has been compromised.

Do you believe that the Iranian’s have the capability to bring down a state of the art drone and have it land where they want it to and down load and decipher complex encrypted code? It appears that Iran has been getting help and lots of it from a very sophisticated source or sources. The US already declared war on Iran by issuing sanctions and covertly bombing them but they don’t dare overtly go in because it would jeopardize China’s oil flow, piss off Russia, Turkey and the local Arab countries. This would also force Iraq to support Iran. We got kicked out of Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is trying to get us to leave there country. The Middle East is kicking us out which means we are running out of staging areas and NATO support for an attack on Iran. The US tried to concoct fraudulent excuses to stir up public support to go into Iran. There was the laughable assassination ruse of the Mexican drug cartel and the more unbelievable law suit stating Iran was part of 9/11. There were also claims that Iran attacked Iraq, etc. The elite are running out of false flags. Iran is out foxing the US because they have the world divided and we can’t command an organized response. The UN Security Council voted against the US a few weeks ago. China and Russia have gone on record that if Iran is attacked they would support Iran. The world is getting fed up and bored with our Imperialism and the elite who orchestrate war.

We have been fighting urban wars of attrition for over 10 years now and we are broke, our allies are broke. We have spent close to 3 Trillion dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can’t afford another expensive protracted war a half a world away and the US citizens are sick of war. There is 85% support for Ron Paul amongst our troops because they are sick of war and he’s promised to end the wars. The lengthy wars have depleted our manpower, equipment, and our political capital.

Last week the Census Department of the Federal Government reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”. Our nation’s wealth has been exhausted by war so that we could secure profits for the banking, oil, and Military/Industrial cartels. We never saw a dime of it and never will because the 1% elite feel they have a Divine Right at our expense. You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses. They truly can’t squeeze much more from the peasantry but they will try.

Our government has been trying to get Iran to do something stupid so that we can attack them but they won’t do it. Iran isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. They haven’t done anything, aren’t weak and they aren’t bluffing. They are asserting their right as a sovereign nation and have the support of some very powerful countries. If we attack Iran, the war will be at our doorstep and then we will see how brave you who espouse war respond. When you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

I am rather surprised by all the people expressing great sympathy for the oppression of the Iranian people. I wonder how they feel about a much worse oppression of the Palestinians. Or the few hundred thousand Iraqis that died as a direct cause of our invasion about Iraq.

The simple fact is that this is a game of thrones. We want to be able to slap around the Iranians whenever we feel like it, and the Iranians want nuclear weapons so that they can get some respect. Neither side is particularly morally superior. We don't have a problem with a lot of people dying or being oppressed so long as it is not us or our allies and neither does the Iranian government care about anyone but themselves.

The bottom line is this - if hostilities are started, we will be paying $10 for a gallon of gas. Iran cannot win a war with the US, but it can prolong it enough that it will really devastate our economy.

@Trustverify

I knew there would be a Ron Paul pitch in the half-truths you are throwing around.

For those who are worried about the U.S. starting "another" war with Iran. I don't see it that way. Iran has been doing what they want for many years. They have no regards for the international community and it's wishes. Some, like Ron Paul, says it's none of our business and we should not care if Iran aquires nuclear weapons. Those same people say it doesn't matter if Iran has a nuke. I ask this question for those people.

1. If you knew it was inevitable that Iran was going to use their nuke to either wipe Israel off the map, or use it to get what they want by terrorizing their neigbors, the U.S. or Europe with the threat of using their nukes, then would you be more willing to use preemptive force now?

2. Does it bother you that a Muslim country that feels Israel and the Jews should not exist be allowed to aquire nuclear weapons? Does it bother you that they would be willing to use them in the name of "their" God?

3. The bigger picture is this. Russia's ultimate goal is for the demise of the U.S. Most of you are probably too young to realize or know that Russia is our long term enemy. They are just waiting around for us to either cause our own demise, or get a little help from someone else. Does it bother you that Russia befriends our enemies even though some were their own enemies not long ago. Yes Russia, and Iran were enemies at one time and now because the US and Iran are enemies Russia all of the sudden is Iran's biggest ally.

4. Are you willing to follow the same religion, and lifestyle as those of the Iranians. Are you willing to convert to Islam to save your life? Are you willing to submit to Sharia law? The goal of all Muslims is to convert everyone to their religion or be considered infidals. At some point in time you will have to chose between death or converting if they have their way.

I have no doubt in my mind that Iran will terrorize the world with the threat of using their nukes to get what they want. The international community will cave in to their demands if only Iran threatens to setoff their nukes. Do you think they are worried about retaliation? If they threaten to nuke NewYork city do you think the US will give in to their demands or say go ahead nuke NewYork we don't care.

I make this prediction, Iran with a nuke will end very badly. Either way. Even if we allow Israel to destroy their nukes now, or allow Iran to get a nuke. Russia and China will be the ultimate benefactors. Just how they planned it, and arranged for it.

If you are worried about another war with Iran now, wait until they get the nuke. You do not know fear.

Those people are all talk no action, they know without a doubt the US would be in their country in a heart beat if they even looked like they may attack us, they know all We want is one excuse to go in there and kick some serious azz ..... So really they can flap their lips all they want but We all know they don't have the balls to back it up ....

TrustVerify:

Both posts well articulated.

You are a great American: Wise, humane, brave, proud - A True Patriot!

Iran is just doing what a typical totalitarian state with that amount of resources does when in a situation like this. Don't blow things out of proportion; keep it in perspective.

TrustVerify: Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us.

Where do those numbers come from? Can you provide reliable data to support this claim?

TrustVerify: All the disinformation trolls will be out in force

Bet they used this war game as a cover to put sophisticated mines in the ship channel.. But I also bet we have every piece of metal's position cataloged and will sweep the area for them.. If we do find and expose the mining of international waters by the Iranians it will give the UN even more leverage.. And if we find out that it is Russian or Chinese technology they will also be in the hot seat..

What's your point Roger? No, none of them are Democratic societies. And we don't have "secret" bases in Saudi Arabia, everyone knows about them as they are in the open.

Shooting down that civilian plane many years ago was a tragic accident and the US made the proper reparations because of it.

Shutting off 1/5 of the worlds oil supply will completely destabilize the Middle East and cause the world to react in a very negative way. The US has every right to use International Waters to move in, just like Iran has every right to send its Navy off any coast of the USA. Allowing Iran to bully the region is unacceptable, and the US is one of the few nations with the political clout and military muscle than can bully them right back.

Roger,

One communist leader of USSR, back in early 20th century had a name for people like you. name is "Useful Idiots"

Roger,

No, I guess Christians not being able to set foot in Mecca or Medina isnt very Democratic of Saudi Arabia, eh?

I guess Iran taking and killing foreign hostages isnt very Democratic is it?

I guess Iran being one of the main providers financially and geographically to terrorist networks isnt very Democratic, is it?

I guess killing your own citizens in the streets for protesting isnt very Democratic, is it?

I guess having horrible human rights violations, mainly against women, isnt very Democratic, is it?

I guess attempting to assassinate foreign diplomats on U.S. soil isnt very Democratic, is it?

I guess calling for the destruction of the entire jewish nation of Israel isnt very Democratic, is it?

I guess denying the Holocaust in front of the world and blaming jews for all their problems isnt very Democratic, is it?

Roger, get your head out of your arse...

Todd: Was ita mistake when our CIA spent billions and killed thousands to install a puppet Shah in Iran. Did we make an innocent mistake when we armed Saddam and helped him attack Iran? Hundreds of thousands of Iranians have died from our actions. We need to get out of the middle east and deal with the pressing problems our people are facing.

Israel and the oil companies along with many big money interest come before the American people. We are headed for disaster economically and otherwise if we don't force real change.

Frank the problem is that we cannot do that. This is because any actions like the one Iran has threatened to take will have a major effect on us. Not directly, but indirectly because the UN is going to come running to us to help them and the other military powers fix it.

We live in a global society, you cannot just shut off communication from other nations anymore, the Internet makes that impossible. Same goes economically. If the flow of oil is cut off as Iran is suggesting many countries we rely on for our economical growth are going to face economical issues as prices soar for gas and transportation of all sold items. This means imports are going to cost us much more and those once cheap items are going to become more expensive them American made ones.

This, in return, will tank our own economy even further. Iran's Government is basically holding the entire world hostage economically. They know this and are doing so intentionally because they want an excuse to justify making nuclear material for weapons. What better excuse then having the World at their borders?

Todd, Iran cannot close the straits of hormuz, that requires a navy. Iran's navy makes Miami Vice look like a show about the Great White Fleet. This is all talk. If Iran could really shut the straits they would have done it. Let me tell you how Iran closing the straits of hormuz would go. Iran puts a bunch of patrol boats(glorified pontoons) in a patrol line. The US navy challenged the line. They back down(most likely), story ends. They fight(least likely) thirty minutes later, Iran has no navy, 3 hours later the sanctions they want lifted, become an internationally legally justified blockade on their ports. And it just gets worse for them from then on. Because probably by the end of that day, b-2's are gasing up on a runway in diego garcia to start taking out anything even suspected of being involved in uranium enrichment.

Disengaging from global issues is suicide, so we better just suck it up and deal with it. I don't want any more surprises and I am sure most other Americans would agree. China has a crap load of poor people, yet they remain engaged and get the upper hand at times because we are so fearful of not being PC. This whole political correctness is not only a global problem, but a national problem. I thought I would never see no smoking in bars, which begs the question "what's next". Time to stick up for ourselves, legalize pot and get rid of some of these ridiculous laws.

@ James; Yes, resistance is futile. lets assimilate them,lol Most Iranians are more western like than people know. Theocracy,holds them back, from free thinking, and hinders their imagination, but most regular citizens in Iran would like to live more like Americans.

LIKE REALLY whats obama going to do , he has increased American dependence on oil from there , they don't have to close it just disrupt it and America shuts down , trucking shuts down , farmers shut down , trains shut down , food shortages in just a few days , people can not get to work , if there is work ,

This is where we are at thanks obama , we get over 60% of our oil from over there , obama said no to the keystone pipe line , American jobs friendly oil from our neighbors , obama shut down over half of American oil production , add 2 plus 2 obama anti American middle east friendly over 500 billion dollars a year goes to the middle east , what would 500 billion dollars added cash flow a year do for the American economy ,considering that our GDP has fallen from $18 trillion down to about $15 which equals our national debt , until obama borrows more money which we are only paying the interest on ,which equals a BANK RUPT ECONOMY socialist communist democratic policies , obama s new fundamentally transformed America ,

"we have secret bases 50 miles from their holy sites" Not anymore jackass, anymore secret you want to let out.

@ segers;

we get over 60% of our oil from over there

Here sir I usually just say it,but I will show , nice Obama derail,lol.

top ten countries that the U.S. imports from:

1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Venezuela
5. Nigeria
6. Angola
7. Iraq
8. Algeria
9. United Kingdom
10. Brazil

There are only 3 Mid Eastern countries on here, and that is if you consider Algeria part of the ME.

I love how 'X-tians' get on here and decry the Islamic Iranian regime for their oppressive actions. . .

Welcome to a Theocracy people. Christian rule, as has been proven in the past, would be no different.

Hypocrites , the lot of you.

"Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings"

@ hu what?

Christian rule, as has been proven in the past, would be no different.

Hypocrites , the lot of you.

Umm I believe most on this post would believe in sepeartion of church and state, that is part of what makes them, how do you say? AMERICAN!!

So how are they hypocrites? You funny, say what? and sound like rerun.lol

@ Darrel

we get over 60% of our oil from over there

The US gets only 12% of it's total imports through the strait of Hormuz. The biggest effect to us would probably be an increase in the price of gasoline but to suggest it would bring us to a standstill is not accurate. Saudi Arabia has already assured the US it would make up any shortfall and the strategic oil reserve exists for just such an event.

Roanoke1

"No, I guess Christians not being able to set foot in Mecca or Medina isn't very Democratic of Saudi Arabia, eh? "

Roanoke1 - So what. Go to Utah as a NON-Mormon Christian and try and set foot in any Mormon temple. It isn't very democratic either......Same thing will occur. You will be denied entry. Even Mormons can be denied if not good card carrying Mormons. ( read that as current on tithing's....and a few other requirements. )

So what is your point..........

JBURK,

you are intentionally distorting things on a grand scale, and actually lying a bit. I was talking about ENTIRE CITIES in Saudi Arabia in which Christians are not allowed to set foot. This is vastly different than some tiny private plot of land that a church resides on in Utah...

Plus, I am not Mormon, yet I have been inside a Mormon church MANY times. So, lets not make things up. THE LAW OF THE LAND, IMPOSED BY THE GOVERNMENT, DOES NOT SAY THAT NON-CHRISTIANS are not allowed in Mormon churches. THE LAW OF THE LAND IN SAUDI ARABIA, in regards to Mecca and Medina, IMPOSED BY THE GOVERNMENT, states that non-Christians cannot set foot in those cities... A VAST DIFFERENCE....but nice try though...

Roanoke1 - if you are not Mormon YOU HAVE NOT been inside a Mormon TEMPLE. You need to learn the difference between a Mormon church and a Mormon Temple. I am not distorting anything. you are claiming as a christen you can't go to entire Cities. Well the Mormon temples are the Mormon equivalent of a holy city. Thus, no distortion. A temple is not a church. There are Many Mormon temples. Non Mormons don't get to go in, period. Thus, I am not making up diddly squat. Learn before inserting foot in mouth......

The Government of the USA cannot override the Mormon peoples right to keep the "Pagens" by the Mormon's own definition Out of there temples.

The only time you can go into a mormon temple as a none mormon is prior to it being "dedicated". After that , no way Hosa......

For those who are worried about the U.S. starting "another" war with Iran. I don't see it that way. Iran has been doing what they want for many years. They have no regards for the international community and it's wishes. Some, like Ron Paul, says it's none of our business and we should not care if Iran aquires nuclear weapons. Those same people say it doesn't matter if Iran has a nuke. I ask this question for those people.

1. If you knew it was inevitable that Iran was going to use their nuke to either wipe Israel off the map, or use it to get what they want by terrorizing their neigbors, the U.S. or Europe with the threat of using their nukes, then would you be more willing to use preemptive force now?

2. Does it bother you that a Muslim country that feels Israel and the Jews should not exist be allowed to aquire nuclear weapons? Does it bother you that they would be willing to use them in the name of "their" God?

3. The bigger picture is this. Russia's ultimate goal is for the demise of the U.S. Most of you are probably too young to realize or know that Russia is our long term enemy. They are just waiting around for us to either cause our own demise, or get a little help from someone else. Does it bother you that Russia befriends our enemies even though some were their own enemies not long ago. Yes Russia, and Iran were enemies at one time and now because the US and Iran are enemies Russia all of the sudden is Iran's biggest ally.

4. Are you willing to follow the same religion, and lifestyle as those of the Iranians. Are you willing to convert to Islam to save your life? Are you willing to submit to Sharia law? The goal of all Muslims is to convert everyone to their religion or be considered infidals. At some point in time you will have to chose between death or converting if they have their way.

I have no doubt in my mind that Iran will terrorize the world with the threat of using their nukes to get what they want. The international community will cave in to their demands if only Iran threatens to setoff their nukes. Do you think they are worried about retaliation? If they threaten to nuke NewYork city do you think the US will give in to their demands or say go ahead nuke NewYork we don't care.

I make this prediction, Iran with a nuke will end very badly. Either way. Even if we allow Israel to destroy their nukes now, or allow Iran to get a nuke. Russia and China will be the ultimate benefactors. Just how they planned it, and arranged for it.

If you are worried about another war with Iran now, wait until they get the nuke. You do not know fear.

JBURK,

please read and learn before posting, thus you decrease the times you look like a fool. A government imposed law banning persons from an entire city, BASED ON LAW, is vastly different than our government, ALLOWING religious groups, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, from choosing who is allowed to enter their PRIVATE PROPERTY. You are attempting to compare a Government THEOCRACY to a democratic republic, which makes you look silly and desperate. FOOT, meet mouth. Again, hit those books, you might learn something.

Roanoke1 - Tell me again, exactly which Mormon temples you have been in and when? I was "invited" with a formal invite to enter the Mormon Temple in Bountiful Utah in the early 90's prior to it being dedicated and obviously after it was built . Only because I was dating a Mormon woman who got an invite. You are more full of sheet than a Christmas Turkey. yes, I realize the Government cannot ban persons from an entire city. However, if a religious faction owns that city, and decides to do it they can, and they are the Government. kinda like the Vatican in Rome......... If the government in a country is a religious faction, they get to write the rules. Kinda like our "christian government". When in Rome, the Romans get to write the rules. When in Saudi the Saudis get to write the rules. When in Utah, the Mormons get to........

get it yet? They have their laws, that is why they get to do what they do. We have our laws, that is why we get to do what we do. However, our beliefs have no relevance on their beliefs. So why do you insist on whining that they are not very democratic? They never said they wanted to be, needed to be, or cared to be........ they dont have a problem with it, so why do you?

IRNA quoted Iran's navy chief, Adm. Habibollah Sayyari, as saying the action shows that Iran has "control over the moves by foreign forces" in the area, where Tehran is holding a 10-day military exercise.

LOL Huh?

Okay, the other day I took a picture of a really hot car. I'm going to bring it home now because obviously, since I took a picture of it, I have control over its movements.

Roanoke1

Roger,

No, I guess Christians not being able to set foot in Mecca or Medina isnt very Democratic of Saudi Arabia, eh?

No, let me guess: Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, etc.,...NOT allowed in the Sovereign State of the Christan Vatican is very democratic of the Christian world, eh?

By the way, should you care to take a look at the world map, you would conclude that the US armed forces would not be able to breath much less operate in the Middle East - Israel would suffocate and the US would cannibalize itself - if the following cooperation and help from Muslims was not available and the following facts on the ground were NOT true:

1. US Surveillance, Military, and spy basis, in Saudi Arabia;

2. US Army and other Militarily Bases and staging areas in Kuwait;

3. US Air Force Bases in Qatar;

4. US Naval Base in Bahrain; US Military and Special Forces in Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia;

5. Egypt at the Suez; Saudi Arabia, Emirates,Dubai, Somalia, Iran and Pakistan - All lie along the Middle East trade channels from the Suez to the Red Sea, Straits of Hormuz, to the Arabian Sea!!!

Please note:These are ALL supposedly Muslim countries where the Armed Forces of the United States are stationed, fueled, fed, befriended, and operate from.

There are a whole lot of short sighted, misinformed, myopic anti-Muslim anti-Islam posts here. I am appalled and amazed at the lack of rational coherent logical thinking they reflect.

Please consider the misguided self-destructive jingoism they imply:

What would happen if indeed this was recognized as a US against Islam/Muslims war as some of you have implied. If this indeed happens nothing could move between the Suez and the Arabian Sea:

Nuclear weapons including Carrier killing Stealth Tactical Cruise Missiles [ From Pakistan's growing and varied arsenal, originally meant for India] would be deployed from Saudi Arabia and Egypt along the Red Sea, Iran, Horn of Africa and the Arabian Sea - Strategic ones will remain as a deterrent against India.

You should understand that 'sanctions' is a slow and deadly suffocation of an economy...500Million babies died due to the sanctions on Iraq - a genocidal crime against humanity was committed against an innocent people - as noted by the UN and acknowledged by the US!

When sanctions are imposed a hostile act, an act of war is committed, and war by any means becomes justified...Iraq and Libya are examples that would be in any strategists mind and war planner - the first overwhelming punch is half the battle.

Israel, and its servile state the US, has Iran in its sights...Iran needs to proceed cautiously but rather not sacrifice 500Million innocent babies and when all is going to be lost always opt for preemptive first strike.

There are are a plethora of Military targets within first strike missiles systems - all over the place. Game theory suggests that China, Russia, Pakistan, and India will have to get into this potential WWIII act!

YOU JINGOIST ANTI MUSLIM ISLAMAPHOBES NEED TO THINK AGAIN !!!

El Sid,

First, you are intentionally diluting the argument with random flailings that show your desperation. You see, my argument was about the FREEDOM of religion in the United States. JBURK was trying to imply that Mormon temples in Utah that dont allow other non-Mormons is somehow the same thing as A GOVERNMENT-RUN FORCED THEOCRACY in which people of a certain religion ARE BANNED FROM SETTING FOOT IN ENTIRE CITIES AND GEOGRAPHIC AREAS BECAUSE OF LAW IMPOSED BY THE GOVERNMENT. You somehow take this and use the Vatican as a very bad counter-argument. You fail. This was never a Christian vs. Islam argument on my behalf. I never even mentioned the word Christianity, you silly boy you. This was a United States freedom vs. an ISLAMIST THEOCRACY argument. But still, good try, even though you just simply look rather foolish...and desperate. Your argument is essentially a logical fallacy and quite counter-intuitive.

Then you use a typical liberal 'pull on the heart strings' argument. 500million Iraqi babies were killed by the U.S.? Right, I have heard that one used for years, yet never actually substantiated... Either way, you own WMD and you continue to refuse inspections while harboring terrorist, you better believe we'll be coming for you...EVERY TIME.

Again, arguing like a typical lib, you bring an entire new argument into the one currently being undertaken. The discussion was about Iran, not every single foreign policy implementation on every country in the Middle East. Again, we are talking about Iran. Iran that funds terrorism and results in countless innocent deaths across the globe every year. Iran that takes hostages and murders them. Iran that is the largest single entity, country-wise, that contributes to funding of terrorist groups across the globe. Iran that has claimed that if they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Iran that gives missiles and other munitions to Hezbollah and Hamas so they can continue to FIRE MISSILES INTO ISRAEL, in the typical Islamic way of feeling that Israel has no right to exist. Iran that continues to call the murder of 6 million Jews...a lie. Iran that is now threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz, thus affecting one sixth of the world's oil supply and now tracking our carrier's. Iran has been asking for a fight for a long time...if they want a fight, then take it to them. It's probably going to happen sooner or later. It's not like the Iranian government doesn't have a plethora of loonies just itching to start a fight, heck they kill their OWN people for protesting in the streets against their goverment.

I guess a vast majority of Americans have certain 'issues' when it comes to radical Islam, the kind of radical Islam that permeates Iran. The kind of radical Islam that has loonies flying planes into buildings and blowing up subways in the name of Allah because they will get 72 virgins when they get to heaven. If you can't see that, and see it for the true human rights threat that it is (as Iran has already proven by it's treatment of it's own people) then you are just as obtuse as many other libs. Now, I am sure Iran will be more than happy to accept you as a new citizen should you choose to move there...just after you have promised them that you are a Muslim and not a Christian. LOL!!

Wow that Iran is really E-vil. So different from peace loving law abiding America..uh...

Obama’s global Murder, Inc.

29 December 2011

The Obama administration has erected a vast apparatus of global assassination involving unmanned aerial drones operated by the CIA and the military. This network of “targeted killing” machines is run in secrecy, behind the backs of the American people and with virtually no congressional oversight.

The US drone program is the subject of an exposé published in the Washington Post on Wednesday, headlined “Under Obama, an emerging global apparatus of drone killing.” While restrained in its presentation, the Post article is a chilling account of a government that has asserted for itself the right to kill anyone, anywhere in the world, without even a pretense of legal proceedings. The lives of thousands of people have been wiped out in this manner.

The US drone program, according to the Post, “involves dozens of secret facilities, including two operational hubs on the East Coast, virtual Air Force cockpits in the Southwest and clandestine bases in six countries on two continents.”

A study by the Congressional Budget Office concluded that the US had 775 Predator and other drone aircraft, plus an unknown number operated by the CIA as part of covert operations. Not including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, assassinations have been carried out in at least three countries. The recent downing of a drone over Iran, however, points to much broader operations.

One of Obama’s first actions as president was to order a Predator drone attack on Pakistan. Since then, nearly 240 attacks have been carried out against the country, killing thousands, mostly civilians. Some 15 strikes have been launched against Yemen, and several others in Somalia.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/pers-d29.shtml

Wow, the two digit, muslim, $hitheads are out spinning like a top tonight.

Go back in your caves and play domination with your women, maybe in a few hundred years you will earn the respect of the civilize world to be taken at par value.

Hamazque, 500 million babies. 500 million is half a billion. I doubt that Iraq even had that population to start with, unless the fertility rate went up tenfold. Whatever....meanwhile the Algerians practically scream "buy oil from us!" :-)

Algerien et fier d'etre

Hamazque, 500 million babies. 500 million is half a billion. I doubt that Iraq even had that population to start with, unless the fertility rate went up tenfold. Whatever....meanwhile the Algerians practically scream "buy oil from us!" :-)

Thank you for letting me know that 500Million is half a billion. I appreciate you teaching me numbers. Now tell me how many prime are there? There is a noble level equation that solves that problem. You obviously are familiar with it.

Now for your:

I doubt that Iraq even had that population to start with, unless the fertility rate went up tenfold.

Iraq is a small country with a small population - a significant portion of it has been killed, maimed, exiled or left destitute by the stalwarts of the well fed "Land of Free and the Brave" in order to steal their wealth and as per the command of their ZioNazi Overlord .

As for your observation, even the US does have those numbers. Not even close. However, there is an important variable missing in your analysis. And given your mathematical abilities I will let you figure that out for yourself [Hint: You can work back from that 500Million number].

[PS: That number of over 500Million babies/children killed by the US has been verified by the United Nations and officially acknowledged by the United States of America].

NOW PLEASE CONTINUE WITH YOUR HOME WORK.

El Sid,

Please show us where the U.S. has acknowledged that we killed 500 million Iraqi babies. You see, you cannot show that, because you are a dithering fool who making things up. 500 million babies?? Yeah right, notice how El Sid does not provide evidence from the U.S. to support this.

El Sid, you obviously do not know what you are talking about. Saddam killed, raped, maimed more Iraqi CITIZENS then Americans did in killing Iraqi's who fought agains the U.S., you big silly man!!!! But its the U.S. you blame?

Please, go back and live in the MIddle East, we dont need or want you here, spewing your lies and anti-American rhetoric.

Arch Stanton: if this was President Bush doing this, the liberals would be going nuts claiming what a war monger he is. Where is Madeleine Albright, the Dixie chicks and Cindy Sheehan now?

CORAL TAXI You forgot China on the top of your list.. Or do you already consider us a part of the Chin dynasty's possessions??

ROANOKE1 They always add in the potential descendants to their estimates.. The Islamist factions and Jihadists have killed more of their own people than we ever had or will.. Hundreds of instances of Jihadists firing rockets and mortars from the grounds of hospitals and schools along with residential areas.. Suicide bombers trying to cleanse the Islamic holly land of young girls who are getting an education walked into a school and blew up the children.. Obvious proof that Islam is by far the kind and loving thing they say it is.. It is a cult plain and simple and in its present form should be illegal.. This is why cultic religious garbage was removed from the bible and a new course set for Christianity 1000 years ago.. The Islam/Muslim cult needs to grow up..

The Iranian Government needs to be taught a lesson, but not the Iranian people. China/Russia, Pony up here gang, we are the ones who will have to defend your Oil shipments.

Hey Troll

First you should learn how to live without luxuries like electricity, heat, food and other amenities before you can make ignorant statements

China buys its oil from Iran. They'll be fine. May even side with Iran if it comes down to it.

Yea, and when Iran takes the first swing and we destroy the Iranian military and take control of their country, then China and Russia will come knocking for their cut of oil.

RalphH. Exactly right. Thank you for a sane and truthful Post.

Ralph and Frank,

nice to see you guys are in lock step with the Democrat Parties' anti-semitic rhetoric. Good stuff, guys. Now, go live in Iran, where everyone also blames Jews for all their problems. You people are sick.

Yo Troll

Before you send in the cavalry, you should check with citizen Bush and ask how that worked out for him? I assume you are volunteering to lead the charge and to settle down in Tehran to receive the adulation of the Iranian people who will be overjoyed for being invaded.

Hey, 'RalphH' I've always wanted to ask this....does that little moustache tickle when you put the pointed hood on?

Ralph, this technically would not be a war for Israel. Personally I could give a crap what the Israeli Government wants, they cannot even deal with their own extremists now; just like us. They have their own issues to deal with. I can never understand why the Right wants to hold them up like they are God's babies or something. They are just another nation of humans no better or worse then any other nation of humans on this planet.

However the current Iranian Government would be a danger to the World, not just Israel, if it gain the ability to make nuclear materials for weaponry. This threat was nothing more then a "I dare you to" ploy to create an excuse to justify their nuclear weapons program, if it exists.

RalphH,

Thank you so much for that dissertation of sanity. From what I have seen in my 66 years of life, the Israelis ARE the New Nazis, and we are their pawns. It is high time we gave our support to the oppressed people of Palestine and ceased financing their oppressors.

SingBiker: "Dissertation of sanity" *snicker* you must have meant dissertation away from sanity. When you, RalphH and the other anti-semites regain your sanity, you can join the rest of the intelligent parts of America.

Remember, the current President of Iran is the same guy who as a "student" invaded American soil and held US Citizens hostage for over a year. Guess what, he hasn't suddenly gotten all kinds of warm and fuzzy fealings for the US since then. He is very much intent on obtaining nuclear weapons and using them to terrorize the rest of the world.

SingBiker,

What a totally assinine statement!!

bad boys, bad boys what you gonna do when they come for you?!

I cannot believe what I read here. There are statements like "you need to learn how to live without electricity, food, water, etc" ... more stupid cannot get. Let's talk about countries like Belgium, Sweden, Canada, etc. Those countries don't attack other countries, they don't try to force their business upon others and they have very high standards of living. Quite higher than in the US.

So, who brainwashed these people to think that without war in the US won't be water, electricity, food, etc ?

@Roanoke1 please don't generalize this as a democratic ideal. I know it's hard to form a rational opinion without painting in a wide stroke, but with practice it gets easier.

@hatefly

This is a democratic ideal. Democrats spew all kinds of anti-israel and anti-jewish sentiments. I guess this stems from the Democratic leader and president of America telling Israel to return to pre-1967 borders. Helen Thomas-esque...if you will. LOL! Then, just go through and read all the anti-semitic posts in this thread from your buddy Democrats...I guess you selectively missed those though, huh?

Open your eyes, you will find you have been blind for a long time to the racism and anti-semitic attitude that permeates the Democrat party...

Gen. Hossein Salami? Salami? That's funny.

Here is a UTube video of Brad Sherman, Jewish Congressman, working hard for Israel, responding to a comment from a constituent. Brad is the guy who wrote the bill to sanction Iran. Brad wants the US to attack Iran, but we need an excuse.

No more wars for Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ltNYrScjc

Ralph,

We get it. You hate Jews. You hate Israel. You are in lock step with the rest of the Dems. WE GET IT.

"Let's talk about countries like Belgium, Sweden, Canada, etc. Those countries don't attack other countries, they don't try to force their business upon others..." In other words, countries that have protectors and don't need to lift a finger to defend themselves or others? Take off the rose colored glasses and look at the real world.

Russia and China are already on the hot seat because they are selling technology to Iran.. Imagine how pissed we will be when a Russian mine or Chinese missile hits one of our ships.. If we blocked the import of all Chinese manufactured goods and boycotted all that was here already they would be in a world of hurt.. Because we are their economy..Russia needs our economy as well..

War against Iran ? Why not ?

• WE NEED RE-INSTALLMENT OF MANDATORY DRAFT.

With our politicians'daughters and sons at the line of fire, SUCCESS will be ensure. Let's do it

I wish we wouldn't spend all that money chasing down a handful of 'terrorists' .

It is good for unemployment, but rememeber : WE WANT OUR POLITICIANS'OFFSPRING AT THE FRONT.

Bring it on. Our Navy will melt your country into a pile of glass.

Better get your hiking boots out, your SUV will be worthless without gas.

A video of Iranian mini-submarines was shown on TV. Very Impressive 2-man subs. I can't wait to see them in action from the crosshairs of strafing aircraft. Iran, please send your toy submarines into action. The US Navy needs target practice and target drones are very expensive for the US Navy to manufacture and use up for anti-submarine warfare exercises.

When Iran finds itself left with a bathtub as its largest floating vessel, some Iranian military attitudes may change.

Iran is posturing to get a better position at the bargaining table because the sanctions are working. It's right out of the North Korea playbook. Iran is gambling that nobody wants war with them and the world will be willing to relax the sanctions to avoid war. I think Iraq/Saddam tried the same thing in 2003 with the whole UN weapons inspectors debacle, look how well that worked out for them.

Iran will be easier because we won't need to conduct any ground troop operations. Just sink their navy, ground their air force, and arm the people who have been demanding democracy and getting slaughtered by the Revolutionary Guard.

Everyone calling for war? Seriously!?! I suggest you join the military and back up your mouth.

Already in Matthew! Want to come join me?

Done.

@Todd,

"Rangers lead the way"

Thank you, sir.

I gather from this article its the US Navy actually leading the way, along with a Marine amphibious unit....

LMFAO...that's correct!!! I didn't hear anything about the U.S. Army doing shlt about the situation with Iran! Thank You Mr. Azrancher(is this Senator McCain privately posting?)!! GO NAVY beat ARMY

@AzRancher and Ray

'Rangers lead the way' is a motto. Has nothing to do with the article. Thanks for playing along.

I think you are right. I believe Israel should have dumped Iran in the beginning. and, we should have backed them. Some people will get hurt now, On our side. War is never won when people die. The stock market will probably go up.

It could be a mixture of "normal visit" and "keeping the sea lanes open". The U.S. ships are in international waters. We do, from time to time, sail into contested areas as way of saying to this or that country "This IS international waters and we will enforce that".

The statement from the Navy said that the movement of the Carrier is a normal transit in support of operations in Afghanistan. Just because Iran is playing war games doesn't mean we must alter our routes and plans in international waters.

If it is normal for that aircraft carrier to be there on a regular basis, then it's OK.

It is. The 5th Fleet operates out of Bahrain, which is directly across the Persian Gulf from Iran. In order to get in and out of the Gulf, the 5th Fleet (as well as 20% of the world's oil shipments) must pass though the Strait of Hormuz, which is what this carrier and cruiser did. U.S. warships transit this particular area routinely and constantly; the presence of this carrier was not anomalous.

M...

The Iranians are conducting war games in international waters. The US carrier is on a routine rout. US cruises these waters all the time.

M...

The Iranians are conducting war games in international waters. The US carrier is on a routine rout. US cruises these waters all the time.

Rony: Why? Why do we cruse these waters and why do we have troops defending the Saudi royal famoly and the Emir of Kuwait.

In the one year I know about, the Saudi royal family made 250 million off our rigged market while 401ks were tanking. The Emir of Kuwait has hundreds of billions in that same market. Could that be the reason we defend these dictators that run their countries like company stores? It's past time to get out of the middle east and deal with our own pronlems. We are in bad need of a government. this on is owned and many come before our own people.

Todd, Freedom of navigation operations are a normal and well established exercise performed by navies all over the world. I don't believe the Stennis was doing anything more than simply transiting the Strait of Hormuz though.

m-612920

I am a very proud American but do not agree with the U.S. putting an aircraft carrier in close proximity to Iran's so-called "war games".

A rational comment. I understand the "proud American" part is a defensive disclaimer. Again a wise precaution...given the jingoist reactionary suppressive oppressive apprehensive atmosphere that is developing in the country;

This is just provoking a very reactionary lunatic,

The President of Iran does not appear lunatic...I assume this was your Browne point moment to ward off criticism - with all those jingoist crows hoovering around.

which is just plain stupid.

Right on!

If it is normal for that aircraft carrier to be there on a regular basis, then it's OK. But if we are just trying to stir the pot then we are the guilty ones.

It is never normal for an aircraft carrier to be anywhere near an other country, in its war-games designated area, when error an hositilities are likely...unless provocation or false-flag operation is in the works.

An aircraft carrier flotilla is essentially an instrument to bully, provoke and project power. Other methods such as sanctions and international 'suffocation' are used to reduce an opponents resources, often foretells when overt hostilities are to commence.

In my view sanctions are an act of war meant to reduce the vitality of the enemy - It must be met preemptively, strategically and tactically, with all ones might and wile ,before it all ebbs away.

The Japanese were provoked to 'Pearl Harbour'. Saddam baited into Kuwait[Originally an Iraqi/Mesopotamian/Ottoman Provence]. Sanctions failed with North Korea who was able to call the related bluffs too...with its China advantage. In Georgia the bully turned tale in front of decided Russian challenge.

Yes they are trying to stir up the pot and the ZioNaziFascists are calling the shots...I doubt President Obama is in charge - He is much too intelligent a man to have let this stupidity proceed into chaos this far, so fast. Yet that's the way it is going...

Only the Iranian President now can retrieve this situation, and I assume that this Charismatic Persian leader plays chess, obviously - and proceeds wisely, no one else appears to.

I would sacrifice a pawn, even a rook to step back, but not a queen; alternatively proceed with a total exchange...unfortunately I am not privy but can only guess to all the pieces on the board.

Stop this madness before something really really stupid happens.

I fear your urgency and wisdom is lost amid the jingoism of war and the jingle-jangle of Military Industrial ZioNazi Loot Complex and its clamour and lust for blood and death!!!

Uhhh, Gulf War 1 was caused by Iraq invading Kuwait, who just happens to be our ally.

Why is oil such a bad thing to fight over? It's a natural resource that we all use and need to enjoy the things in life we depend on like cars and plastic. Are you willing to give up all petroleum containing objects and activities? I'm not, and I'm one of the people who've actually fought in some of the conflicts you mention.

Stop being so dramatic about reasons to go to war. It's better to fight over something tangible than to fight over something like religion.

Wait till the wars are over water.

Joe

Other than blabbering incoherently, what exactly is your point?

So if we have fought all these wars over oil......hmmmm where is the oil????

We have more than enough oil, natural gas, coal, etc. in THIS country. We SHOULD be able to use all our OWN natural resources and not rely on our enemies for such existence. Pretty sad.

Oh ya Dragonmaster, the Ganges will be dry by 2030, displacing 500 million, better stay frosty America or you'll be livin just the way they want us to. Depressed, broke and hungry. I am with Todd and against all these crazy notions of isolationism. If you want to isolate yourself, shut off the internet and do so. Good luck.

Todd-651965

Uhhh, Gulf War 1 was caused by Iraq invading Kuwait, who just happens to be our ally.

Iraq was baited into Iraq according to ZioNazi plan and US manipulation. Before that it was made to fight a 9year war with Iran with arms and poison gas (WMD) supplied by Israel and the US.

If Kuwait was an ally than Iraq and Saddam Hussein was a personal friend and ally...till he decided to bring oil to free capitalist market and opt for free floating financial exchange protocols.

Why is oil such a bad thing to fight over?

Oil is not bad. But fighting over it for blackmail money and illegal profits is. The supplier wants to sell, the buyer wants to buy...the market sets the exchange. So were is the problem?

Well, there is a catch. The problem arises when the ZioNazi who have no oil and do no work, and are supplied oil and gas by so called Muslim Arabs almost for free, yet wants monstrous profits and market control - hence the turmoil! I thought that was obvious for all to notice

Well the Iranian navy will be ready to fight as soon as they get their ships out of the bathtub.

You did notice, didn't you, that the video taken by the recon aircraft was from very far away. Some of you may recall what happened to the couple of Libyan Migs that got too close to the Kennedy group in the Gulf of Sidra.

That is correct....a carrier battle group posts F/A-18s as CAP patrol to protect against any potential enemy aircraft. All 'bogy' aircraft in the area are warned to keep a reasonable distance from the ship. Clearly, the Iranians are not willing to push the point...to their credit. US Navy does not play games when it comes to that sort of thing....Libya found that out years ago....unfortunately there was a civilian aircraft lost as well with over ~250 innocents....very tragic....but a good lesson for the Iranian Navy to remember.

The TV footage shows the F18s in trail. I wonder if their recon planes saw them. ;)

Awesome Brad, maybe that's there recruitment message "Join the navy and lead a short exciting life". Since only about 50 percent of the country is literate maybe it works or maybe they are just thinking about the rewards in Heaven. In any case the little head is doing all the thinking

Grandfather-2041741

...unfortunately there was a civilian aircraft lost as well with over ~250 innocents....very tragic....but a good lesson for the Iranian Navy to remember.

I am sure they do. Their family, parents, friends were on that flight. No one forgets that sort of thing. However I expect you are not advocating shooting down civilian airliners carrying pilgrims as an object lesson in deterrence?

But you never know...

Nope, just advocating the destruction of the Iranian regime, and their pathetic military, by superior U.S. firepower...that's all.

Happy New Year.

No, Repub.

It's about accelerating the consideration before all the reports have been analyzed. It's in line for consideration in the next year. Repubs just want something to gripe about and grab reactionary opinion.

No Dragonmaster, President Obama wants to wait until after the election before he totally pisses off his environmental base by allowing the pipeline to happen.

I guess it's far better to rely on the Middle East to meet our oil demand than it is to displace a red cockaded woodpecker or two.

Dragonmaster,

No, the pipeline has been studied and thoroughly vetted for 3 YEARS. The only reason Obama wants to wait until AFTER the election is that he takes big campaign donations from BOTH big oil and environmental groups. He knows whatever side he takes in regards to the pipeline will piss off one of the two sides and they will stop funding his campaign, so he wants to wait until AFTER the election so he keeps BOTH those flows of money open. OUR PRESIDENT IS PLAYING POLITICS AND MONEY GAMES WHILE AMERICAN FAMILIES WAIT FOR JOBS. PATHETIC.

My daughter is on the John C Stennis. Lets just hope that Iran is not that stupid to mess with us! she is doing her job, we need to support them.

Hey, Todd.

I displaced a Red Peck-Headed Woodf*cker or two with explosives many years ago at Ft. Polk.

Doesn't mean I'd like to see a "safe" pipeline like that. You know what "troop proof" means.

Obama may or may not be playing politics, which is hard to do without a spine.

What I'd like to see, above all else, is a complete break in our dependence on oil for fuel. Better to use it for other purposes and get our energy needs met some other way.

In the interim, perhaps we continue to use oil. Unfortunately that makes us lazy and removes the incentive to find something else.

We're stupid not to figure something else out and be at the mercy of a limited resource.

Roanoke:

I guess you noticed that there were 12 leaks in the first year of phase 1 of the pipeline. The state of Nebraska opposes the pipeline. It goes through their major water supply. Pipeline company said there would be 20,000 jobs. Their bases of calculation is: if there are 10,000 in year one, then 10,000 X 2 (2 years) = 20,000 jobs. Also, the pipline company has to hire majority of Canadians. Canada does not want to run the pipeline across Canada to West coast (the people do not want to destroy their environment). So, run across the US. It will go directly to Texas ports (export ports) which will just load onto ships for China. OK, so Texas refineries will get to refine the stuff (about 40% sand).

Yup, a really great deal for the US.

I think Mr. Obama stated in one of his campaign promises of 2008, is that he would sit down with the Iranian leader and engage him in discussions.

I believe we have tried this before. Ahmadinejad is hell bent on destroying Isreal and all of us infidels. So, every time we make a deal they break it as it appears lying to infidels is OK in their form of Religion.

You make some good points John. Say what you will about Obama, but I think he's done very well in foreign policy. He has tried extending a hand to the Iranians. We should all be against rushing to armed conflict. But Iran needs a graceful way out of this, if that's possible. But we can not allow Iran to have nuc's. And there's the rub. Perhaps the people of that country will eventually come to the rescue of everyone by forcing their current leaders out.

We are not doing anything different. The navies of the world pass through the Straits of Hormuz frequently.

As far as enemies having warships near your coast but in international waters, that happens all the time. When we were in the cold war with the USSR their ships, subs, and spy trawlers were constantly off our coast. No big deal for the Navy.

Oh and we did not kill a quarter million people anywhere in the last 10 years. According to the Wikileaks classified documents there were 109,000 killed and 66,000 were civilian deaths. At least half of the civilian deaths were by sectarian violence or Al Queda.

Why don't we consider that the President of Iran is an admirer of Hitler? That they funded a suicide bombing in Argentina to get at the Jews? That they support Hezbollah which murdered US Marines attempting to save Palestinians after Sabra and Shatilla. That they support Hamas. That they support Assad murdering unarmed civilians in Syria. That their bomb making materials caused the death of hundreds of American troops in Iraq. That their takeover of our embassy in 1979 was a declaration of war and an attack on America under International law. Finally, Obama allegedly tried that with Iran and this is the result. Some people you can negotiate with, some you cannot. You cannot negotiate with radical Islamics. You can survive or perish.

John Kimble- Define De-Escalate. If you mean allowing Iran to prevent us from sailing in International Waters, thus violating Maritime Law, then you are being just plain silly.

Other countries do maneuver in the International Waters that surround the United States. We monitor them and really don't get too upset about it because it's INTERNATIONAL WATERS!

Where did you get your facts? I'd like to see the over a quarter of a million people, mostly civilians we've killed. Really? Since Al Qaeda and the Taliban aren't considered "Soldiers", they are considered "Civilians", is that what you are referring to? Having been over there, I've seen 100 times more civilians killed by their own people than by the US military and Coalition Forces.

How many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis did Saddam murder?

How about the Taliban?

How about Al Qaeda and the 3000 Innocent Americans on 9/11?

since our military is out of iraq and we dont have jobs for them in usa , they gotta go somewhere and look useful. spend our tax dollars in Iran please . bring us another debilitating war , we haven't had enough yet !

Mutha...

That's about the most rediculious rant I've read today.

Dragonmaster,

I'm sure Muthatrucker was being really sarcastic.

Actually, John, you are completely wrong....we have always maintained free passage in international waters....for years we had Russian submarines off the US east coast...no problem as long as they were in international waters...we watched them...we tracked them....but we never inhibited them in any way nor were we "pissed off" that they were there.

As for your other suggestions...I think you'll find that Obama tried much of that approach with the muslim world early in his Administration....didn't come to much. As far as any of us can tell, Iran maintains its plan to go nuclear, including nuclear weapons. If you find that OK, then your approach would work....we can sit down with them, all friendly and such, and chat about how many nuclear bombs they plan to have over a cup of tea; maybe make some plans for the mullahs to visit Disney World. Even Obama thinks a nuclear Iran is a very bad idea for the region and the world, and clearly the 'speak softly and carry no stick" approach is not working. Come to think of it, didn't work so well with NKorea, either. Didn't work so well for Neville Chamberlain. Can't think of a single instance where it did work. Help me out here....did I miss one?

There are only two kinds of countries in this world...strong ones and weak ones. Strong ones survive, weak ones...not so much. Think Spain and the Aztecs....didn't go so well for those Aztecs as I recall. Some folks like to be among the weak ones and hope for the best...like Belgium, or Holland. That works for awhile...then a Nazi Germany comes along and, wow, how you liking that weak strategy now? Not so much, huh? We're a strong country....we need to stay that way.

We are aiding Israel and they have embargos in international waters. The hyprocicy is obvious. Also, I have not heard of Iranian war ships off our coast.

We would be a much stronger country if we had our troops at home defending our interest instead of all over the world defending big money interest. We are in bad need of a government to serve America instead of Israel and big money interest.

Obama said a lot of things. But unless you are an elite rich campaign contributor you don't get any attention.

That would be the one with 2 outboard motors.

Yep, an outboard motor and SS 18 anti shipping missile that takes out a US frigate with a couple hundred sailors on board

It has two ores instead of one like the rest!

sonofavetvetfatherofvets

That would be the one with 2 outboard motors.

rond36

It has two ores instead of one like the rest!

Yes, the one that moves below ship radar and carries a couple of anti-Ship missiles each, wizzing alongwith its twin armed with deadly one kill torpedoes...a small low moving target verses lumbering top heavy ships that can't sight on them!

When the US makes big ships to project power, others make big ship killers to nullify it - a small elephant gun will always take down a charging bull elephant however big...just as a 9mm will a giant, even a tiny .22 appropriately placed.

Yeah El Sid,

History has certainly shown that silly little pathetic outboard motor boats definitely have the advantage against massive U.S. air craft carriers. What a joke!! I would pay to see that! It would be fun to watch the little rats die a fiery death and be buried in a watery grave....just like Osama!! LOL!!

Roanoke1

Yeah El Sid,

History has certainly shown that silly little pathetic outboard motor boats...

What history teaches is that those who rely on history to plan future wars blunder into disaster. You are clearly not a student of history...not of technology, not of strategy, or of war either.

El Sid,

You clearly have never read a history book. First let me disprove your lies. You state "500 million Iraqi babies died in the Iraq War." You lie. You are saying that the U.S. slaughtered nearly twice the total population of the United States....in babies!!! What an idiot. The number I have heard silly liberal know-nothings like you use over the years has been 500,000, but again, absolutely no proof of this whatsoever...just made up claims.

Also, you lied earlier when you said the Vatican does not allow non-Christians to enter the city. SO, thats two lies in just a few posts. It is obvious that you HAVE NO IDEA what you are talking about...which is why the United States military will always conquer loser countries with losers like you. One aircraft carrier would be able to destroy the capital of Iran in a few hours. Iran, and the majority of the Middle East, have no technology. They cant even produce running water for toilets or generate their own electricity. They have no navy, minus their tiny 1960s subs (which the U.S. has had since the 1860s!). They have no real Air Force, other than the outdated aircraft we gave them in the 70s and some Russian leftovers. LOL! But sure, the U.S. should certainly worry about a bunch of people who ride around on camels blowing each other up in the name of Allah to get 72 virgins when they get to heaven after murdering a bunch of innoncent people. LOL!!!!

History teaches us that the U.S. will always win a war against pathetic little Arab armies throwing rocks and blowing themselves up. LOL.

China and Russia won't care, they are friends with Iran. The Iranians would simply let oil headed for China and Russia through, and block oil headed for the US and European countries. Europe could certainly take care of this, but they are in worse shape than we are. OPEC isn't a country with an army and they'd likely shrug it off. They'd just sell a bunch more to the Russians who would turn around and sell it to us at a highly inflated rate. The Russians would then provide Iran with economic assistance with the extra money. Ultimately, Iran would get their money and we'll be the ones getting hit with huge price inflation on gas.

Our own banks, with billions in 0% loans have been driving up the price of gas and food on our hurting people by manipulating the commodities market. Everone knows this and nothing is done to stop the pigs. Goldman Sachs alone has done more damage than all terrorist combined.

Frank Morton-2536216

Our own banks, with billions in 0% loans have been driving up the price of gas and food on our hurting people by manipulating the commodities market. Everone knows this and nothing is done to stop the pigs. Goldman Sachs alone has done more damage than all terrorist combined.

This is how you take down a giant, from the inside...like termites. Goldman Sachs is the local viceroy representing the ZioNazi Overlord - These "pigs" are above the law.

If taking pictures constitutes control, I wonder how many satellite pictures we have taken of their navy ships.

When I was in the Navy patrolling the Gulf, their P-3 used to do flybys on us rather frequently. They would radio us and request to know our hull number. Which, by the way, was painted on the hull in big numbers. But anyway, we would politely tell them what it was. Then they would leave. I wonder if that meant they were "controlling" us even then.

Chris-3558678

Exactly how does simply following a carrier and taking pictures of it constitute "control" They are about to get them selves in deep here.

They were likely on recci: Tracking course&speed, triangulation, verifying class, tonnage, nearby support group, armor, armament...calculating, adjusting reprogramming their anti-ship missile trajectories and radar systems accordingly...and other things. All this is collectively called control in military lingo.

I expect this helped somewhat.

Of that 10 billion a month we spend, probably 9.5 of it goes to pay the military, American contractors, American companies that make planes, trucks, guns, bombs, etc. War is good for the economy!

Yup....it's what got us out of the Great Depression......

I'd be careful to equate war spending as being good for the economy, per-se. It is certainly true that increased government spending increases economic activity, but that comes at a cost. As long as the rate at which we are borrowing is equal to or less than inflation or the GDP growth rate, then it is true that government spending can be good for the economy. Italy and Greece are good examples of why it can be bad. When interest rates paid on debt are higher than inflation or the GDP growth rate, you end up in a cycle where your debt payments account for too much of your income. Even keeping the rate low, doesn't help if your base increase exceeds GDP growth.

It might be a good idea to use money borrowed today, at near 0%, be first spent in paying off the remaining debt from the 80's and 90's, which was borrowed at much higher rates. Frankly, the government should borrow enough to purchase all outstanding debt obligations higher than 2%. I suspect that the savings in interest payments would be substantial.

So? Any Joe with a Cessna can snap a picture of an aircraft carrier from the air.

Actually, yes. When I took a shuttle plane from Victoria, BC to Vancouver, BC we flew right past a US aircraft carrier docked in the port. It was actually amazing.

The US worrying about an Iranian "spy" plane flying nearby is kind of like an elephant concerning itself with a mosquito. The only thing any alleged video/photos Iran has proves is that the US is absolutely not at all concerned about their naval capability.

@Grandfather2041741

War didn't get anyone out of the great depression. The government telling the federal reserve, "Ok it's time to end the depression, we have enough troops from the poverty it created." ended the great depression. They knew WW2 was coming.

Fact...2/3rds of the military's soldiers come from poverty. It is very probable that the government uses scientifically created economic problems to resupply their forces. It's all about controlling the masses.

Don't believe me? Read about the federal reserve act of 1913. Research the backgrounds of America's military. With all the economic specialists at our governments disposal... do you really think they couldn't figure out how to fix the economy if they wanted to? Some people may buy the BS... but I don't.

Amanda,,, Excellent point, I believe it goes deeper as well, like how education is taking a beating, and how it is harder and harder to start a business,, everything revolves around corporate needs and governmental needs, Me personally, Im sick of the government trying to be the world police and am sick of government employees thinking that the purpose of the populace is to support them and be their slaves,, I cant even go into our county offices and conduct business without some pencil pusher giving me attitude and chiding me for not doing something per the forms they have,,,, cant wait for the money to dry up and be worth more as fire starter than dollar bills,,,

Do you want that "one" to be your Mother/Father Bother/Sister Son/Daughter?

How many Iranians were killed when Stark was hit by Exocet? How many Iranians were killed when Roberts hit the mine? How many terrorists were killed in the Cole attack?