The first of the ten commandments in its original context.

Exodus 20:1-6, American Standard Version

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020&version=ASV

And God spake all these words, saying,

² I am Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

³ Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

⁴ Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

⁵ Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,

A statue is just a statue. God does not need such silly idols or images to be worshipped, unlike the pagan deities who surrounded Israel in ancient times. That point is often lost on modern Christianity though, as they venerate statues, icons, and crosses. It all goes back to the "Christianization" of pagan cultures in the centuries following Christ - to "convert" them, they let them keep most of their pagan traditions, but redirected to them to the Christian God. As convenient and politically expedient as this was, how do you suppose the "jealous" God speaking in the passage above would have felt about it?

Ah... yes... the omnipotent God has every reason to be jealous.

Jealousy is a mortal emotion! Saying that God can be jealous is just like saying that He is "all benevolent", but "hates" sinners. A pure contradiction and fallacy if you ask me!

The photos which accompany this article seem to picture a dangerous level of mob hysteria taking place. Why is it that religious devotion so often devolves into mob hysteria??

at least 324 were injured after devotees pushed and shoved to get near the sculpture of the Black Nazarene during the procession.

See. God doesn't LIKE you.

There not worshiping a statue they're just reenacting the death of Jesus Christ, you remember that person that was resurrected..

Yeah... the same guy who was half human since his DNA was 50% Mary and 50% "spirit". WAKE UP people, the Virgin Mary/resurrection story is as believable as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. Start thinking like an adult.

Even the postman had hope and believed..

"... as they venerate statues, icons, and crosses." Tch, tch. Such ignorance. They don't 'venerate' these items. They don't pray to them or worship them. They venerate God. They pray to God. Get it ? Or is that to much for your tiny brain to absorb ?

Ah... yes... the omnipotent God has every reason to be jealous.

Hey Wanker...the point is that these people don't even know their own religion.

Don't criticize the way individuals practice their own faith (as long as it's not being forced on you). To each his own.

Have a blessed day!

JK -

Don't criticize the way individuals practice their own faith (as long as it's not being forced on you). To each his own.

But it IS forced on me, in a hundred different ways, some unimportant and some catastrophic.

And it is forced on innocent children who have no ability to fend off superstition before it perverts their thinking for the rest of their lives.

How can you believe this stuff? Every religion claims it is the truth and the others are false. The Hindu's believe it. The Muslims believe it. The Jews believe it. The Christians believe it. What kind of God would make your salvation dependent on making the right bet?

I don't care if you're crazy. I just care that you start and justify a lot of wars.

And it bothers me that you warp the minds of babies.

The problem is that it is forced on me and others. Just check out the laws in America based on religion!

yet not one iota of HOW this is forced on you?

Hey Will,

Do you wear a cross around your neck? Does anyone in your family? Do you pray over a bible? Don't you eat bread that is a likeness of the lord's flesh. Don't you drink wine that is a likeness of the lord's blood? Those are all symbols of your god. Hell, the cross itself is a symbol of torture and death!

Hypocrisy, thy name is religion.

I don't need anyone to tell me that God has rendered us a lost cause I can see it for myself the way people treat each other and the points are becoming clearer and clearer, (everyone included):

I don't need to vote for JK to know he's right.

yet not one iota of HOW this is forced on you?

Everything from not being able to buy a car on Sunday in my state to Mad King George whipping up a Christian frenzy against those Godless Muslims.

I don't even appreciate having to see beautiful trees that have been unnecessarily killed and covered with garish cheap plastic crap to celebrate the birth of your "savior."

Given your history, I think it's not only the right, but the DUTY of rational people to speak out against your superstitious nonsense. It has been your excuse to murder untold millions of innocent people, and to keep the populace ignorant and backward. The only way to put a stop to it is to speak out in the same way a rational speaks out against racism and bigotry.

When it is no longer socially acceptable to believe in these superstitions, fewer people will participate.

I am always amazed at the people who complain that Christianity is always pushed in their faces, yet they deliberately come to the news stories that blatantly state that it is an article indeed about Christians. I say some of what is forced upon yourselves is self-inflicted and therefore deserves no pity. Had you no inclination to come to these stories and state such drivel then you might be pitied but alas you do it to yourselves. Have a nice day.

bigot [ˈbɪgət]

n
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her
own, esp on religion, politics, or race

"you see the splinter in your brother's eye yet fail to recognize the wooden beam in your own"

The hatred of religion (prevalent here) is different from other types of hate how? Hypocrisy is correct. This thread is loaded with it.

I am always amazed at the people who complain that Christianity is always pushed in their faces, yet they deliberately come to the news stories that blatantly state that it is an article indeed about Christians.

Just the fact that "religion" is front page news on a daily basis is having it forced in the face of those that don't want to have to hear about it on a daily basis. People come to these stories the same way they come to a murder story, to express their views or distaste for the article at hand. Just because "religion" is the subject does not make the story strictly for those that believe to pat each other on the back. If you don't want to be offended by comments speaking out against "religion", don't read the comments. There are plenty of websites that cater to your delicate sensibilities where they will filter out all the "heathens" for you.

arguesforsport - Don't read the news.

BigJeff -

Do you wear a cross around your neck?

No, for reasons cited in my original post and for your last statement made below. Its a murder weapon.

Does anyone in your family?

Nope, not in my immediate family. Some of the extended family may, but the have a more traditional "Christian" view of things.

Do you pray over a bible?

Nope.

Don't you eat bread that is a likeness of the lord's flesh. Don't you drink wine that is a likeness of the lord's blood? Those are all symbols of your god.

If you are referring to the point in a Catholic mass where they give out the bread and wine and tell you this means the literal body of Christ, I am not Catholic. However, these items in the last supper were symbols of the sacrifice Jesus was about to make for our sins. Hence, partaking of the bread and wine is a show of appreciation for that sacrifice. However, you are not worshiping the bread and wine themselves. You don't bow down to them or stroke them as you say a prayer. You eat and drink them, and then a few hours later - well, you know.

Hell, the cross itself is a symbol of torture and death!

A further logical reason I don't wear one. It would be like Jews commemorating the death of people in the Holocaust by wearing a Nazi swastika around their neck. It would be like black people commemorating the death of MLK by wearing a little sniper rifle around their neck. These ideas sound horribly offensive, but Christians wear the cross, the murder weapon of their founder, around their neck with pride. Of course, if you want to get really technical, the Greek word stauros means an upright pole or tree. In the Bible book of Acts, it is translated "tree". The cross was a pre-Christian pagan symbol that was later Christianized. Of course, this is a moot point since it is a murder weapon and a graven image.

Sorry for the double-post but I feel compelled to respond.

Ah... yes... the omnipotent God has every reason to be jealous.

Jealousy is a mortal emotion! Saying that God can be jealous is just like saying that He is "all benevolent", but "hates" sinners. A pure contradiction and fallacy if you ask me!

One of the unfortunate realities of reading Biblical text out of a translation that is over 100 years old is that something often gets lost in translation. Also, for some Hebrew words, there is not an exact translation that totally conveys all of the meaning of a particular word including conotations.

So, for example, we have the word "jealous". In the modern conotation, we think of a person who is petty and childish, like a paranoid wife who accuses her husband of cheating on her for no good reason. However, the ancient Hebrew word here more conveys the idea of exclusivity. The idea is that God expects exclusive worship. As the creator of the universe and originator of OUR life, he deserves to be worshiped alone. All of the other pagan gods were idols made of wood and stone, and therefore deserved nothing. So, the first of the ten commandments was a warning not to put God on the same level as these fake gods by worshipping them along with him. That seems logical enough, right?

BTW, on what basis do you claim that an all-powerful person would not have emotions? Explain this to me in more detail. Is this an observation you have made from all of the all-powerful people you have met? Do you feel that having emotions makes a person weak somehow? Does your narrow definition of the perfect, all-powerful person necesitate that this person be a totally emotionless robot if they are trully all powerful?

Here is my observation. Do animals have emotions? The less intelligent the animal, the less likely that anyone would ascribe such "human" traits to them. However, the more intelligent the animal, the more likely that someone would describe them as having emotions. "My dog is so sad. He misses me." Humans are arguably the most intelligent creatures on the planet (assuming the dolphins are not holding out on us), and we are able to show a whole range of complex emotions, far above and beyond the animals. Therefore, following the pattern, if God is a far more complex and intelligent life form than us, not only does he have emotions, they are probably far more complex emotions than would could probably even comprehend. Hence, I see no basis to assume that because one is all-powerful, they must be emotionless.

if God is a far more complex and intelligent life form than us, not only does he have emotions, they are probably far more complex emotions than would could probably even comprehend

As a Christian i learnt that God does not have whimpy emotions like we humans. God's word is very plain, unchanging, and everlasting and is not tainted by whimsical human hot/cold emotions. If this were the case i'm sure that God would have gotten sick of hearing all the crap generated in these comments and opened an almighty can of whip-ass on y'all.

Well said, P.C.!

One of the unfortunate realities of reading Biblical text out of a translation that is over 100 years old is that something often gets lost in translation.

The problem with reading the Bible is it was written by men to control the populace through superstitious fear, not to mention the fact it is full of warmongering and misogyny. It's a book by men, for men, glorifying men. It is a manifesto of hate toward women. It is sick and twisted, much more so than the Qur'an, which most Christians here will vilify hysterically, despite having never read it.

How is religion forced on everyone in America? Every elected official in D.C., save one, professes a belief in a "god". You can't get elected as dog catcher in most states unless you "believe". It amazes me that the majority of U.S. citizens would vote for an admitted Muslim, who did not represent their political views, for president (and I don't mean Obama. that's a separate issue) before they would vote for an atheist that did represent their political views. That is one way it is forced on everyone. Or how about the phrase "In God we trust" on every coin and bill that is our currency? Or the change made to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 that added "under God" after "one nation" and before "indivisible"? Or how about swearing on the Bible and being expected to say "So help me god" as if we agree that "god" can and will punish us if we do not honor the oath? There are many, many more. Do I find these and other encroachments of religion into my life intolerable? No. At most they are a minor annoyance. But to say religion isn't forced upon everyone is false.

I always find it amazing how those who claim that there is no god are always drawn to articles about god and religion and compelled to make their silly comments, To me if I was so secure in my belief that there was no god I would not bother with these articles, It would be like someone who was not interested in a certain sport going to all the games of that certain sport and telling the fans there that their sport was not a sport, If you do not believe that is fine, You are not required to believe, I think however that your are so insecure in you non belief that you constantly have to try to find others to help you support your non beliefs.

Silly!

LostInThePenBarrens:

Good point, excellent analogy.

LostInThePineBarrens says it is odd that those of us who don't believe we die because Eve listened to the bad advise of a talking snake are drawn to religious articles. I don't believe the same way a terrorist does, but I watched 9/11. To some extent, watching the religious is a source of humor in that I find it amazing that grown adults can fall for such an obvious con. To another extent, the religious are so dangerous that it seems a good idea to keep an eye on them. The notion of 3 million Catholics pushing their warped views on a tiny country sounded like something to raise an eyebrow. Catholics are all about building their empire and forcing their views on others, so it caught my eye to see what they were up to this time.

The book of Mormon came about when Joe Smith dictated it while looking at a rock in his hat. About half the country will vote to give the nuclear launch codes to Romney who believes God talks through a hat. I'm watching that as well.

That's because these stories justify our disbelief that people can actually be moronic in their beliefs. It simply reinforces MY belief that all those that follow some form of organized religion are simply mentally impaired and unstable and they should seek medical assistance right away.

JeffBham,

" it is odd that those of us who don't believe we die because Eve listened to the bad advise of a talking snake are drawn to religious articles."

Whether we die because Eve listened to the bad advise of a talking snake or not is irrelevant. The bald fact of the matter is that we all die, believers and non-believers alike. The only difference is that believers die with hope of something better, whereas unbelievers die without hope. Whether or not the hope of believers is in fact true is immaterial since if there is no life after death, they will never know they were wrong. At least they will have died with hope, and that makes the act of dying we all have to face somewhat easier for them at least. You're going to die whether you believe or not.

The notion of 3 million Catholics pushing their warped views on a tiny country sounded like something to raise an eyebrow. Catholics are all about building their empire and forcing their views on others, so it caught my eye to see what they were up to this time.

Thats funny...Exactly where does it say they were pushing their views on their country, When was the last time that a catholic or any christian tried to "Force " their views, More over it is people like you who try to force your views.

You show your true feeling in your words, You show your hate for those who do not conform to your beliefs.

That's because these stories justify our disbelief belief that people can actually be moronic in their beliefs. It simply reinforces MY belief that all those that follow some form of organized religion are simply mentally impaired and unstable and they should seek medical assistance right away.

I am sure glad that we had so many mentally impaired individuals around when this country was formed, because without them we would not have a country. Another who shows his hate and intolerance of others simply because those others have different beliefs.

PS: I corrected your sentence for you.

LostInThePineBarrens, in your 1st post I read almost the same thing that I posted above. I'm so glad that sense in these matters are not lost on all. Thank you.

Exactly where does it say they were pushing their views on their country, When was the last time that a catholic or any christian tried to "Force " their views, More over it is people like you who try to force your views.

If you're not forcing your views then why don't religious people wait until their children are older, say into their teens, before they start instilling their beliefs in them? It's entirely possible to teach a child morals without the threat of eternal damnation as the final punishment. Teaching a child about religion before they have a chance to make an educated decision on their own is brainwashing no matter how you spin it.

If you're not forcing your views then why don't religious people wait until their children are older, say into their teens, before they start instilling their beliefs in them?

Because they are their children...You teach your children what you believe and people who are religious will teach their children what they believe.

Once the child turns 18 and becomes an adult they have the free will in this country to believe or not believe in anything they want.

Tell me are you not forcing your views on your children if you tell them there is no god and that religion is wrong, Is what you are doing with your children any different that what a person who teaches religion to their children doing.

If you wait until they are 18 before you tell them that there are other beliefs, then they have 18 years of brainwashing to get over. Not saying "yes there is" or "no there isn't" until they can make their own decision is what I'm advocating.

Because they are their children...You teach your children what you believe and people who are religious will teach their children what they believe.

So brainwashing is OK as long as it's your own children and it's you doing the brainwashing?

What you consider brainwashing most people would consider fundamental moral values.

You know...Things like thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not commit adultery.

But alas there is no sense in arguing with someone who sees being a just moral person and having a belief in a just god as brain washing.

I will pray for you and your children if you have them. Please forgive me if that offends you

Lost in the Pine Barrens and looking for a clue. If Rick Santorum or Michelle Bachmann were to get into the White House do you really think that they would not impose their beliefs on me? Nutjobs like these stunt scientific learning and give everything up to superstition. I also find it particularly offensive that you think morality comes from religion and isn't innate in us all as human beings. Making a child fear hell and making them believe in an overwatching and vengeful father figure in the sky amounts to child abuse.

Kent, You are entitled to your beliefs and I am entitled to mine, One of the fundamentals that led to the founding of this country was freedom OF religion, Not freedom from religion, That means we all get to believe in what ever religion we want including atheism and we each get to practice that religion without fear or reprisal from the government or any of our fellow citizens as long as we are not violating any laws of man.

What that means is that there is no state sponsored religion and also that no individual or group of citizens can infringe upon my right to practice and teach my religion to my family.

As for what Bachman or Santorum would be able to impose on us is restricted by our constitution and any violation can be remedied by our court system if necessary.

Considering you are currently trying to impose your beliefs on me and what I should teach my family I find it ironic that you would be complaining about what someone else may be trying to impose on you.

The difference is I did not tell my young children "there is no god" nor did I tell them "there is a god". I encouraged them to attend church services so they could make an informed decision (they regularly attended with my wife, their grandparents and sometimes with friends) When they returned home I did not challenge any of the things they had learned. As they grew older and began to question the inconsistencies and fantastical events written about in the Bible I gave them my honest opinion and left it up to them to decide what they believed. What I did not do was belittle, scare and ridicule them if they questioned my beliefs. Most "believers" can't say the same.

Right... the cross survived because of "God's Power". No wonder Rick Santorum actually has people who would vote for him.

Hey flyer, I did not know Philipinos were voting in our elections. In case you did not catch it, this was in the Philippines not the USA. People have the right to believe what they want to believe. It is EXACTLY the attitude you put forth that is so detrimental to everyone. What is so wrong with something that gives someone HOPE? I am NOT for Santorum! I believe in each individual's right to their own faith as long as it does not impinge on other's rights. That includes yours.

Hope? Are you kidding me? Hope for what? More mass muders, more planes flying into buildings? What? Like the now very dead Jerry Falwell he now knows that after death there is nothing and nor should there be. Do you recall what it was like before you were born? Same thing, NOTHING!!!

SNAPPA ... you sound like you have no hope that good things can happen. We all get to choose how we want to walk through this life. As far as mass murders and more planes flying into buildings one can choose to HOPE it will not happen again or give into the belief that there is no way to survive and your life walk has no meaning. I can't imagine all the trials one bears in a life time and have no hope that something good can come out of their time on this Earth. Your remarks sound so foreign to me, BUT I still feel that each human being has the right to believe as they choose as long as they do not force their beliefs on others. Do you feel that your beliefs are the only truth? You have just as much proof that NOTHING is there as those that believe there is something more.

BUT I still feel that each human being has the right to believe as they choose as long as they do not force their beliefs on others.

So why are children having religion forced on them before they are even able to read or write? Why not give them the chance to make an informed decision once they're old enough to understand what they are being taught? If religion had any basis in fact, it should be no problem to wait.

I'll give you the answer you will obviously ignore. Because if children were to read and decide without years of preconditioned subversion, religion would already be nothing but a memory.

argues...(I love your screen name) Most religions that I know have a confirmation of faith at an older age. From experience both mine and my childrens, I have found the following:

1. I attended any church (generalized name for the establishment) that was close enough to walk to. I participated in many different faiths as a child. I enjoyed the people and the sunday classes. I did participate in confirmation as an adult after many years of not attending.

2. My children also attended Sunday school, more because everyone around them went and they felt left out. They are now adults and do not give any credence to religion.

3. I do feel that most of the faiths I have participated in have a lot of values to pass on.

4. I have encouraged my kids to do their own research, when they are ready, if ever.

I also find NO issue with religion at all. In the many world religions I have studied I have found most of them boil down to the golden rule. In case that is unfamiliar to you...Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Bringing children up with the faith, or lack there of, is one of those aspects that bind a family, and typically a neighborhood together.

Argues, I ask you this...How many adults do you feel stay in a religious environment in the USA that they do not want to be in???

Argues, I ask you this...How many adults do you feel stay in a religious environment in the USA that they do not want to be in???

That's a damn good question that I have no idea of an answer for. I can tell you this though. I was raised catholic, went through all the ceremonies up and until confirmation. I used to get in trouble constantly for asking the Nuns questions they didn't like or couldn't/wouldn't answer. As soon as I was "allowed" to though, I stopped going to church.

When I got married, my wife's family were all catholic, so I went through the church's mumbo jumbo to make everyone happy and bit my tongue, same with other peoples weddings, christenings, etc. Hell, I'm even a "godfather" to my niece and nephew. I manage to endure it because I refuse to recite prayers or go through all the sit/stand/kneel crap.

So while I have no clue to actual numbers, I would be fairly certain there are many, many people like me that just "go with the flow" to preserve the family peace.

dang, the link wouldn't post. Oh well, just think that according to the christian faith and some of the early christian writtings much was passed down from the ultimate first self generated to us in the development of the universe.

AMEN!!!!

This whole thing is insane -- look at the pictures.

Where is this kind of devotion to feeding the starving, healing the sick, righting wrongs, saving mankind?

To think that intelligent adult human beings espouse this behavior is disheartening...

How, then, do you classify those makers of war who have no belief in anything other than themselves? Are they not just as dangerous of individuals? If you believe that they aren't, then why? Men who start wars only need reasons to justify it, some choose religion and others choose patriotism or what ever the justification is needed to create war with another. Religion is just an excuse like all the others that man needs to do harm to their fellow beings.

Annon Religion has been used as a tool by evil men to perpetrate war throughout history. Until men stop the patriarchy's push for dominance there will always be war and the side effects of war. The patriarchy obsessive need for dominance has poisoned the planet contributed to overpopulation justified murder and other atrocities against humankind. Until this system of violence and dominance is abandoned it is really a matter of perception and what facts can be attained to make an attempt at who is the aggressor. If a terrorist threatens to blow up Christians because they are non believers then this is an act of aggression. If Iran threatens to blow up or use nuclear weapons without legitimate provocation it is an act of aggression. If America threatens to blow up a country without legitimate provocation it is an act of aggression. Women having a true non patriarchal and equal voice in all decisions made in the world is mans best hope for peace. I am not talking about women who are male identified and openly support the patriarchal agenda of violence and dominance.

Don't forget every classroom has a picture of Mary. The only place in the world where the people are more catholic than the vatican.

Just goes to show how ignorant and uneducated the population of the Philippines really are.

Snappa...Your comment shows what a hard, hollow soul you have. I can honestly say that every person I have ever met from that Country was warm, genuine, VERY hard working and just amazing people! YOU are the ignorant one!

Snappa is one of those who profess to hate religion and does not believe in a god but will still expect time off for the religious holidays, Will still expect to be paid overtime if he has to work them, Has no problem profitting from them but does not want to be annoyed by them , Yes Snappa..we know you do not believe...you can go away now but before you do please know that even though you have nothing but hate and disdain for us we will pray for your souls salvation.

Another inflammatory comment about a religion you obviously know nothing about. Do you feel the same way about radical Christians who blow up abortion clinics? Or protest at the funerals of military servicepeople? ALL religions have radicals.

yeah they could all go to Children's Island I think it's some where in the Philippines...

"The sad reality of the world today is that terrorists want to disrupt the ability of people to live their lives in the ways they want to, including the freedom to worship," Except muslims, who want to kill you if you don't become muslim."

Same goes for the Catholic church, the Christians, who are you kidding. The day that the Catholic church comes out in favor of gay marriage then maybe I'll lay off.

Plotinus: There are no "superstitions" nor do we worship or think there is power in statues. The statues are simply reminders of the persons they represent. Same as anyone looking at the photo of a loved one. The photo is just a reminder of who they are, the image of a loved or respected person. You obviously don't know anything about the Catholic religion, so it's best to keep YOUR superstitions to yourself lest you confirm your ignorance of the beliefs of the Church.

Aggie,

I live in Peru, a country where Catholicism oozes from every stone and brick, and I would have to agree with Plotinus. Anytime one thinks that kissing a statue is going to heal them that would fall into what is known as superstition. Maybe you live in the states and have tempered your beliefs with a more reasonable background understanding of science, but this is certainly not true with all believers. In most of the latin american cultures there is a strong emphasis on accepting miracles, which does kinda sorta knock the legs out from under scientific knowledge. And leads to a more superstitious population. And once science is thrown out the window and superstition accepted, the mind is more susceptible to being controlled. Plotinus was correct. A very funny example of this is the ancient monastery in Lima with the catacombs below. Full of the bones of those who wanted to be buried below the church so that when they made their journey "up above" their spirits would have to pass through the church and pick up more blessings along the way. Silly people.

I love the Catholics and the Christians they break the ten commandments every single hour of every single day and they don't even react to it. I know more about their own cult than they do.

The first commandment:

1) I am the lord thy God, thou shall have NO others before me.

Now that commandment was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai about 2500 years before Christ, it was supposedly given to him by the God of Abraham the ALL knowing god who knows the past, present and future you would think that a "god" who knows EVERYTHING would have at least added an addendum to that stating "except when I send my only begotten son to Earth to die for you @!$%#heads. This also goes to the idol worship crosses, statues of Christ or the "virgin Mary" (I cannot say that with a straight face) they worship these things daily, what a bunch of insane mentally unstable people fill this Earth. Let's not forget that Moses was supposedly on that mountain for 40 days, I wonder what he could have been doing on that mountain for 40 days? Anyone got a chisel?

I hear what you are saying Snappa, I was raised as a Christian and later converted to the Catholic church. I too have more questions than answers and I think there are so many weird things we are supposed to believe in that it does make one feel kind of silly. I have wrestled with these for a long time and even wonder why I still go to mass and it boils down to one thing...I like the way it feels when I go. I get peace from the ritual parts of it and even sort of feel a sense of renewal at the Eucharist part. I could probably get the same from yoga or something else, but my way suits me. It also brings my family together once a week for mass and dinner. Am I mentally unstable? No, just looking for things that bring me a bit of peace. I think so many people who are searching for God are really looking for peace in there hearts, they just don't know how to take the things that help, while leaving all the weird stuff at the front door!

misusocks, Now the question is would you rather have a world full of people who feel as you do or a world full of people like snappa.

Personally I'll take a world full of you anyday

Too much hate in Snappas post

Plotinus- I'm not saying that every alleged miracle is a true miracle. However, there are SOME miracles that have mystified science. Google the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano. Here's a summary, although it's been a while since I've researched it:

Basically, a priest was doubting the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist (yes, we as Catholics believe that the bread and wine truly change into Christ's body and blood, soul and divinity). When he was saying Mass one time, he prayed for faith and the bread turned into flesh and the wine turned into blood. Over the years, obviously, the bread and wine have dried out. They've been studied by scientists, however, with strange results. For example, the wine dried into several "globules." These were once weighed by scientists. They each weighed exactly the same. Even stranger, when they were all on the same scale, they weighed the same as one globule. No matter how many were put on the scale, they all weighed the same. These were tested as recently as the 1970's and were proven to be human DNA. The flesh was found to be human heart tissue, cut so precisely that it would have needed to be taken by a surgeon with modern technology. This flesh appeared hundreds of years ago.

I'll let you read up on it. It's incredibly interesting and science cannot explain it. I would call that one a miracle for sure.

Allie,

Actually I accept what some call "miracles", but with an understanding of quantum physics, an understanding of Christ as the "Gnosis", an understanding of how belief and faith are energies influencing the "manifestations" that come from the "unmanifest" (or the "One"). If you are into reading do a search on Plotinus and see where I'm coming from.

I do believe the Catholic church over-emphasizes miracles with an ulterior motive. Mind control. That church is and always has been interested in population control more than anything else.

Surely you could have come up with a better example of "miracles". The one you noted would take an extreme stretching of reason and has so many possibilities of being a fraud that it would make one wonder just why would it even be important enough to consider. But if it makes you feel better, go for it.

Plotinus,

I'm very interested in Philosophy so when I have time, I'd be glad to check out your namesake. Once again, it's been a while since I've actually read about that particular miracle, so I can't tell you off the top of my head exactly what security measures have been taken, but I know it was very closely guarded. If you're suggesting someone could have replaced the blood or flesh, how could they replace it with "fake" blood that would defy simple laws of physics or math (two things that weigh the same, put together, should weigh double the original weight, not the same weight)? I'll admit, I believe the first study was done by monks (doesn't mean it wasn't scientific, but for critics, it could be an issue). The second, more recent study in the 70's was done by an outside, non-religious organization, they replicated the work of the monks and found out about the heart tissue. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to. I'm offering you the findings of the scientists because, like many, that is what would be most likely to convince you, not my beliefs as a Catholic. The science together with my faith solidifies in me a great amount of wonder for this particular miracle. I hope I get to see Lanciano some day and stand in the presence of what I believe is the flesh and blood of Christ. But I don't expect you to believe that, just the incredible findings of the scientists that seem to defy science itself.

Plotnis: The Church has never said that Catholics MUST believe in everything that might be a miracle. We're free to take it or leave it. And as for your claim they want population control...if that is so, then why do accuse the Church of demanding that every Catholic family have as many kids as possible, just procreate until they can no longer? Which, by the way, is also a myth. They do favor natural family planning, but most families decide according to their own means and health.

SNAPPA: God and Jesus are one and the same. But that's very complex, and beyond your understanding or desire to try or accept that. It's called faith. but, your perogative to accept that or not. It appears that you cannot understand the concept of looking at statues being just reminders of the person they portray. Same as a photo is a reminder of someone you may admire, respect.....You don't "worship" the paper photo do you? Neither to Catholics "worship" the plaster statues. Both photos and statues are just likenesses, nothing more.

Aggie-345886

I am not Catholic, nor was I ever one. But, having said that, I have Catholic friends, in The Philippines. And, I do see their very-focused devotion to Christ. The "images" are merely "points of focus" (symbols of the focus of their love and devotion). Your non-Catholic "friend", here, named Alsophia Theophilos, indeed shows his gross lack of understanding. In fact, he seems to know how to "pontificate" even better than a.... er, Pontiff.

Gag me with a shovel!

Yank-957120.... It is possible, from your comment, to deduce that you are not aware of the "sectarian strife", in the Philippines: especially in the South, in Mindanao. I have a friend with whom I chat, on an almost daily basis, from Southern Mindanao.

There is violence, kidnappings, shootings, bombs, and grenades, in that region, in the South, which has the highest percentage of muslims. (I hope that you are not a muslim heckler, writing your comments).

The Philippines has had a "growing problem with adherents of Islam", over the last several decades. Violence is a part of that religion: and, when they feel "strong enough" (in any one place, or region), they use all of the violence that they can, in order to terrorize and disrupt.

Manila, on the island of Luzon, is not "exempt from" a possible terrorist threat, for the simple reason that Muslims are not restricted, in any way, from traveling freely, around the country, there.

Terrorism is "alive and well", in the Philippines, sad to say.

Did it say they went and blew up people who disagreed with them,or cut off womens' clitorus'?