Which also includes you. People in glass houses....

This is not Mexican drug violence.

This is insane U.S. drug prohibition violence. It is the U.S. insane drug policies which are the root cause of creating the massive drug cartels and all the drug gangs and associated violence.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

.

You have a point!

Yes legalizing would reduce cartel violence.The bloodshed is seriously out of hand in Mexico.

Oh, and not selling them guns might help also.

Mexico's problem isn't a drug problem. People get involved in the drug trade because it is the only way to make money. It is a education problem. It is a jobs problem. It is a oil problem. Yes a oil problem. Mexico has vast oil reserves and they are in a production decline because of the clown car they call a government. Look at Canada. The Canadian dollar went from 80 cents US to 1.10 US due to developing their tar sands. Mexico has the same opportunity with their oil. The decline in farming and farming jobs in Mexico due to NAFTA has almost killed the country. Men there have two choices. Leave for the US or join the narcos.

@ UnitedStates1776

Agreed!

Why is it that so many people can't see beyond the tip of their nose when it comes to these things?

Ask yourself. Why aren't the cartels bootlegging alcohol, or smuggling coffee or tobacco over the borders? How come people aren't dying from home made alcohol and are now dying from home made amphetamines instead?

How is it possible for poor, inner city youth with no education, single parents, and wards of the state to manage to afford expensive and illegally obtained automatic weapons, and other firearms with all of the ammunition they can carry?

Why are illegal drugs so expensive yet legal drugs like alcohol, caffeine and tobacco are not? How come only stores sell those?

Prohibition doesn't work! It didn't work with alcohol, it doesn't work with drugs either.

This whole system of drug enforcement is a complete waste of money and lives, serving only to employ an oppressive police state and serve the megalomaniacal interests of power-hungry morons and the profiteers that steer them.

Coral Taxi

Yes legalizing would reduce cartel violence.The bloodshed is seriously out of hand in Mexico.

Oh, and not selling them guns might help also.

Mexican, Honduran and Nicaraguan farmers have no need for guns and explosives, they're too busy growing coffee, chocolate, tequila and tobacco to care. If we legalized all drugs and allowed them to be commercialized like our current slew of acceptable drugs, the cartels would go out of business. The mob couldn't compete with Jack Daniels and Anheuser Busch on alcohol...it drove them to create Las Vegas and selling other illegal substances and services.

And if you're worried about abusers, don't be, they already exist and they already abuse the stuff. How many people do you honestly believe are abstaining from taking drugs simply because they are illegal? Look at Amsterdam and portugal

Wake up, coraltaxi. The truth is 95% of the guns they obtain are from Central and South America. The antigunners would have you believe they buy full auto weapons at gun shows, but learn the truth before spouting.

The most dangerous city in the country during the first nine months of 2011 was Ciudad Juarez in Chihuahua

___

Oh damn. I just booked a flight there for some R&R. LOL

One killed every half hour in Mexico drug-related violence

Your point is?

@ skiddy; Maybe you need to take your own advice.

The Central Intelligence Agency was intimately involved with the federal government’s infamous “Operation Fast and Furious” scheme to send American weapons to Mexican drug cartels while simultaneously working with other agencies allowing narcotics to be shipped over the border, according to a series of explosive reports

Here sir educate yourself,so I do not have to copy and paste a novel.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/lets-arm-the-mexican-drug-cartels-with-thousands-of-guns-and-continue-to-leave-the-border-completely-wide-open

I don't think that it is our drug policies that have created the problem. The problem is that too many Americans are dependent on escape mechanisms, one of them being drugs. We want drugs, but we also want all the other things that give us a sense of importance and meaning but which also tend to enlarge our need for drugs to escape reality. We make things worse by increasing our dependence on drugs to fix our problems, and that is what creates the market for drugs. For our national government to pass laws and establish policies that prohibit the use of drugs in public places, in the work place, and in situations that endanger others is reasonable and prudent. No one wants to drive a car on a road where he has a good chance of colliding with another driver who is high on cocaine. No father wants to have to raise a child that has brain damage because his wife or girlfriend was free by law to shoot heroin. There are good reasons from the perspective of public health for limiting the use of heroin, cocaine, marijuana, and other drugs.

To say that the law is what creates criminals is perverse and inane logic. Criminals become criminals because they want to take a shortcut to becoming richer than others. The nature of criminals is that they believe they are entitled to an easier route to whatever it is that they want. In common terms, they are sociopaths, and to say that they are anything other than that is nothing more than self-delusion.

Typical wingnut pablum. The guns and violence have been going on for years. It is not the government giving them the guns, it is gun traders who don't follow the laws that supply them with most of the weapons. Or do you forget how Calderon was asking Bush to do something about guns being sold here, being shipped across the border?

rd, prohibition directly led to the rise of the mafia and other organized crime in this country. When prohibition ended, they got hit very hard and lost a lot of their power. Then they switched from one illegal enterprise to another, drugs. That is how they get their money, which allows them to buy more guns and gain more powre.

I am a United States citizen. My family is from Puerto Rico. I was born, educated & lived here my whole life. My community has been plauged with gangs and drugs for years. MSNBC just announced the arrest of the second leading chief of the original Latin Kings gang from Chicago. When I grew up in Chicago, I had to ask my mom not to buy my school clothes in specific colors because I lived in fear of getting killed. This is when I was 10. Imagine your child today telling you that his life was in danger at school because the area he lived in was not welcome at the school he was assigned to go to. It's time to fight back. It's time the fed govt' stepped in and made these street gangs enemy of our country just like Al-Queda. Make all persons with a record with gang affiliation registar like sex-offenders. Keep them away from our schools. They hurt kids!!!

Just legalize the crap, seal the border and it's all over.

Oh, wait the cheap labor will dry up and so will the Global Economy they are jamming down our throats.

Coral Taxi, I agree with you because if you make pot legal i think it would make the drug cartels that less severe. I think allot of the violence stems from heroin, coke, meth.

Tine - La Raza and the ACLU would call you a racist and have it blocked and tossed out. The killers rule.

So, raddave, is the solution to have no laws for fear that some will become criminals? I think that Edmund Burke was more on point when he wrote, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." The thing that is needed to be done in this country as well as in Mexico is for people to take on the risk of personal danger and to bring a swift end through violent force to extinguish the people who staff the cartels. We exterminate bugs because they harbor disease and pose a threat to us, and in the case of cartels that kill people at random, behead them, intimidate, steal, and pose a constant threat to those around them, they should be treated the same. All hell would break loose if such a thing were to be done in earnest, but like all real wars, they have a start, a middle, and an end, and in general, they last about ten years during which a lot of people die. That is the cost of exterminating vermin.

rd, drugs is a "personal crime" it hurts no one but the individual using it, like cigarretes, but that is legal. Legalizing marijuna will cut down most of the violence in Mexico.

UnitedStates1776

This is not Mexican drug violence.

This is insane U.S. drug prohibition violence. It is the U.S. insane drug policies which are the root cause of creating the massive drug cartels and all the drug gangs and associated violence.

Ummmm the article CLEARLY says these people are being KILLED in MEXICO. Last I checked it is ILLEGAL in MEXICO to buy, sell, transport or possess drugs. HEY I guess that makes it THEIR issue and not just ours.

Look at Afghanistan. It is illegal to have drugs there as well. A religious taboo I think, yet look who is buying, selling, trading, possessing, using.

Iran... See Afghanistan.

OUR relationship to the issues we are consumers. don't throw the WAR ON DRUGS as the ONLY issue.

@Kyak123;

I think allot of the violence stems from heroin, coke, meth.

You can say that again,the obvious thing about these three drugs are that even if you could do them legally,and afford them,they would lead to your demise. ie There is a much greater stigma and adverse affects with these drugs,than pot.

It also goes to the point that if someone wants to buy a little pot ,they are going to be successful and at low risk . ie People get it anyway. Same rules as beer and liquor should apply,not in public(exceptions of private establishments),age limit. Just as you can not hang out and drink a beer on the corner nor can you smoke a joint.

I believe certain occupations should still have drug tests even if it is legalized.

Raddave, I know your view is shared by many, but let's take my cousin who was in the Navy many years ago. He became addicted to heroin, and when he no longer could support his habit, he started pushing it to make money to support his own habit. As he spread its use among his inner circle of Navy buddies who were serving on a destroyer, it put the ship at risk. When he landed one day in San Diego and wanted to sell some more drugs to make more money, he made the mistake of trying to sell it to a police officer. It ended up that my cousing died in a gun battle. When he fired the bullets aimed at the police officer, he didn't really care where those bullets went as long as he could get away. He could have hit a mother, a child, a truck driver, a student, but he didn't care. He just fired his gun. In the end he died.

Using drugs is not a "personal crime." Drugs alter judgment, and the culture of drugs demands, as with all other human activities, that more people must join. The same applies to churches, schools, companies, gangs, and just about anything else that people do. Drugs harbor the real danger of creating death for people who don't want any involvement with them. Drunks drive on the road, and when they lose control of their cars, they kill people who might have been coming home from school or work. Kids might have been in the car. Everyone's dead, and why? Because the drunk was commiting a "personal crime?" That's not acceptable. The same applies to drugs. If people really want to use drugs and are willing to exclude themselves rationally from possibly harming others, they can move away to a place like Alaska, Northern Canada, a desert island, or some other hardly inhabited part of the planet. As long, however, as they choose to live in densely populated areas where mostly innocent people live, their use of drugs constitutes a real public threat.

Don't give me this glass house BS.....you never tried any of that? ......Maybe you're like Clinton and just didn't inhale.

And you're right US1776......just legalize it. It would be a great tax revenue plus it would put these cartels out of business and all the killing would end......if you wanted to kill YOURSELF by doing drugs, it's your option......innocent people are dying......people are going to do drugs regardless.....Just like alchohol.

rd, heroin does not come from Mexico. Heroin is produced by poppies that grow mainly in the middle east. Marijuana on the other hand isn't addictive and does not lead to the "life" you described. But, saying that alcohol is just as addictive as any other drug, but it is legalized and is controlled, you do the same with drugs. You tax the hell out of it and use that money to pay for education and rehab, and you get rid of the violence.

One of the dumbest comments ive heard with regard to the legalization of Marijana leading to putting the cartels out of business... Marijuana doesn't even account for 5% of their income... It's the harder more expensive drugs and extortion that give them money.. naive pot lover. Although I am all for legalization of marijuana, just wouldnt reduce any crime what-so-ever

isn't the black market wonderful.. It provides us with a large prison population, and even larger police enforcement, it funds judges and lawyers and drug testing

and it doesn't ever end and we dig ourselves deeper in debt and solve nothign. We destroy more homes and more lives by continuing down this path

legalize it and the black market dries up. See the 1920's prohibition for all the proof you ever need

Raddave, I am aware of where heroin is produced, but it does come in through Mexico as well as through Canada as intermediates. Taxing doesn't reduce risk; it just enriches those who collect the tax. The problems with alcohol regulation show that to be the case. Drunk driving hasn't stopped because alcohol is taxed, nor has regulation stopped it.

What is fair to ask is whether the marijuana should be treated differently from alcohol, and that I cannot say with any authority. I do think that while marijuana is not addicting in the way that cocaine is, it is quite easy to become dependent on it. To the extent that one's behavior and one's displayed sense of responsibility is altered by it habitual use, then it poses a risk for those who must work near them. The detectability of the use of marijuana is the central problem for a regulatory solution.

@ bigity;

One of the dumbest comments ive heard with regard to the legalization of Marijana leading to putting the cartels out of business... Marijuana doesn't even account for 5% of their income

Now here is the truth mam,sir.

What is important is that even this Rand study fully backs up the inherent logic of those pushing for marijuana legalization (see page 19). The study shows legalizing and regulating marijuana in one region would effectively shut down the cartels’ lucrative marijuana trade to that location. Whether legalizing and regulating marijuana in this country would take away 60, 50, or only 26 percent of the dangerous Mexican drug cartels’ revenue is impossible to pinpoint, due to the lack of good statistics on illegal products. Whether legalizing marijuana would make the murderous cartels terrorizing Mexico $6 billion a year poorer or a mere $2 billion, I still think it is a very good idea to take the first step toward depriving dangerous criminals of billions of dollars in revenue.

No one is saying it would put them out of business,it would reduce the violence,and their revenue. Please do not call people dumb when you have no clue of what you are talking about yourself.

I thought smoking weed mellowed you out" Must be Greed " one of those deadly sins..

I guess the Devil holds all those Greed cards because its causing havoc in all aspects of modern life.

rd, The point is not to say that "taxing it will reduce the risk" of the drug itself, but it does reduce the risk of buying/selling it. Just like alcohol being legal does not reduce the risk of drunk driving, it DOES reduce the risk of a mobster killing you or someone else when selling it.

Currently the risk is two-fold: One is the use, and what that causes. The other is the dangerous process of obtaining said substance. Legalization removes one of those risks, the buying/selling part.

You told the story of your cousin who died from heroin. What you fail to point out is that heroin is ILLEGAL, yet he still used it and eventually died from it. So how did the "war on drugs" make any difference in that situation? In fact, would the cop have stopped him and eventually shot him if it was legal? If he was still alive, is there a chance you could have helped get him into rehab and saved him? Maybe... who knows.

My problem with those against legalization is the idea that more people will use it. I have never, ever, EVER smoked a cigarette... not even once. Even though it is LEGAL, I still have NOT used it. Shocking, right? Why have I not smoked? Because legalization DOES NOT equal use. If weed is legalized, will I use it? No. Because I do not do everything that is legal, it's called choice.

Personally, I am not 100% convinced on the legalization of hard drugs, but weed is a no-brainer. There is absolutely no reason it should be illegal. We spend BILLIONS... with a B... prosecuting users. Talk about spending cuts, just think what we could save. Then you tax it to bring in revenue... holy s***, can you even imagine how much that would help? Plus it relaxes people... no one gets high and then beats the s*** out of their wife. I am literally baffled at how any intelligent person can be against legalizing weed.

I don't think that it is our drug policies that have created the problem

Then you sir, are part of the problem. FORTY YEARS IN to the 'War on Drugs' and not ONE state is clean, not one CITY! How long will it have to fail before you recognize and admit it DOESN'T WORK?!

Marijuana doesn't even account for 5% of their income.

You're right, it accounts for 60-67% of their income!! The FBI SAYS SO.

I wonder what the CIAs cut is in drug trade profits these days..I am thinking that pot is a bit more of a moneymaker than that.. Cocaine is another drug that was legal at one time and even one or more of our presidents used it.. Pharmaceutical corporations and alcohol manufacturers lobby against it as this would cut into their profits.. One day soon we will have to invade Mexico as the narco cartels are becoming stronger than the government down there.. The gun trade from the US has been hyped up to support the anti gunners here in the US.. They get more of them from smugglers and our own government..

I wish people who don't know what they're talking about would just shut up and listen to those that do, which does not include 90% of what government funded studies spew forth as propoganda. Drug use is only abuse if it is harmful. Marijuana is not harmful. Getting caught with marijuana is harmful. Caffeine is highly addictive but we don't say someone is abusing it or dependent on it because any harm it does directly is negligable. People are dying every day because of tax funded lies. People get their doors kicked in by weapon weilding men in masks for growing a few plants. Teens are disowned and shunned by their families. Adults have to hide themselves and lie to friends and loved ones to avoid unjust persecution. Suggestion is very powerful. Society already had some problems before marijuana use became widespread in the US. Then it was suggested that drugs were to blame for them. The perfect scapegoat was born. The lies propping up the lame body of prohibition are slowly folded back over time and the methods of spreading misinformation become more subtle and difficult to detect. It used to be enough to say marijuana made black men rape white women. Now millions must be spent on biased scientific studies in an attempt to show that it causes traffic accidents and mental illness. These foolish zealots would require drug testing for employment and then publish a paper saying that cannabis use leads to unemployment. DEA will intentionally drive prices through the roof and then say marijuana causes violence. Having laws that can't be enforced and shouldn't be enforced does more damage to society than drugs ever could.

home grown...pot plants does a lot for the local economy...

That's right. Legalize drugs so that we can have even more people in this country that are too high and too screwed up on dope to care about anything. Legalize dope so that even more people in this country can be dependent on the government for their "entitlements" on account of they are too screwed up on drugs too function in society and maintain a job to secure their own existence. Legalize drugs so that those of us who have never had a drug issue or have found a REAL life after a drug problem can continue to work to pay taxes to the government so that users can maintain their "legal" lifestyle of getting high and having others take care of the responsibilities that they cant deal with for fear of losing their buzz. Legalize drugs so that the government can continue to act with impunity and not have to worry about answering to a nation full of screwed up dope fiends. Sorry folks, that's not my idea of America, and I don't think that is why so many have sacrificed for the safety of our nation. If drugs are legalized then we as a nation have just given up. Anyone that believes in the legalization of drugs is delusional in their intent.

I hope that those who criticize American guns realize that NONE of the automatic weapons came from here? I dare every one of you to walk into a gun dealership and ask to buy an automatic weapon. Sure hope you have your FFL permit for it first. Sure, you can buy a semi-auto, and maybe it looks like an automatic, but it isn't the same. An AR15 rifle can cost $1500 and more, but to buy an M16, even if the dealership had one, is going to cost thousands more. They look pretty much the same, but they don't function the same. A lot of these cartels have automatic weapons, grenade launchers, etc. You can't buy a grenade or grenade launcher in the US. Those few that exist in private hands are very tightly controlled through government permits. And, no, I have never used drugs, so I have never contributed to the Mexican drug violence. The closest I ever came is when, as a military police officer, I had the opportunity to handle some pot to see what it looked like and smelled like so I would recognize it if I came across it in the performance of my duty. Legalize drugs if you want, but I won't even hire a smoker or drinker, so anyone looking to work for me, if they use drugs, might as well not apply.

bite me .... how many would die from drug use vs violence? Dunno, but as I posted before, alcohol destroyed my childhood. I don't understand why alcohol is better than any other drug.

Biteme, you're delusional if you think continuing the War on Drugs is ever going to stop people from getting high.

You're delusional if you think that destroying freedom via militarized police forces, diminished constitutional rights, and government interference in people's PRIVATE decisions about their OWN bodies is an "American" path forward.

You're delusional if you think that pot smoking leads to welfare or any other dependence on government handouts.

You're delusional if you don't think you're already paying money for these people by HOUSING THEM IN PRISON and paying the whole prison industrial complex and justice system to focus so much on fighting DRUG USE... while drug use on the whole isn't DECREASED AT ALL.

And last but not least: you're delusional if you think you have any valid points in that rambling, baseless, and ignorant tirade of yours that calls drug users "dopers" and makes no distinction between any types of drugs, their individual effects, or their relative harms (including the LEGAL or PRESCRIPTION drugs).

janellect: I never said that alcohol was better than any drug. If anything we should see how legalizing things of that nature have caused more harm than good. I am sorry about losing your childhood. I lost 15 years of my life to a drug problem and not a day goes by that I dont wish I could get any bit of that time back, but as many others have stated, they think that by alcohol being legal it should stand to reason that drugs should be legal? We didnt learn anything from legalizing our vices then, have we?

.

ConstitutionThumper: I am a recovering drug addict. I have been off the dope for 18 years now. It is obvious from your little rant that I have forgotten more about addiction than you will ever know. I feel the effects of my past addiction every day of my life. It is obvious through your little soap-box rant that you are most certainly part of the problem in this country as you obviously seem to get off on seeing absolute chaos and you want to see even more of it but on a grander scale. I would be willing to bet from reading your comment that sitting in your mom and dads basement, hitting your bong and washing it down with a handful of your parents prescription meds, makes you believe that you are somehow more enlightened than others. Go ahead and live in your little fantasy land but leave the rest of us out of it. Try learning about being sober rather than heralding yourself as some kind of drug induced saviour of mankind.

Biteme

Legalize dope so that even more people in this country can be dependent on the government for their "entitlements" on account of they are too screwed up on drugs too function in society and maintain a job to secure their own existence.

I lost 15 years of my life to a drug problem and not a day goes by that I dont wish I could get any bit of that time back,

You did NOT lose 15 years of your life to a drug problem, you lost 15 years of your life to a PERSONAL choice. YOU decided to use, thus it is completely YOUR OWN FAULT.

If someone dies from getting shot, do you blame the gun or the person who pulled the trigger?

If someone dies from a drunk driving accident, do you blame the alcohol or the person who decided to get behind the wheel after drinking?

The drugs did not do it, YOU DID. Where is your personal responsibility?

If YOU decided to waste 15 years of your life on drugs, that was YOUR stupid decision. It is NOT my responsibility to make sure YOU don't make another stupid decision. It is NOT my responsibility to WASTE MONEY (BILLIONS of tax dollars) on prosecuting people who make stupid decisions. It is NOT my responsibility to protect people from their own stupid decisions.

You talk about wasting money on "entitlements"... what about the BILLIONS and BILLIONS we waste on prosecuting people like you, who made a stupid personal decision and ruined their own life? Why is it our responsibility to protect people from themselves? Why is it our responsibility to waste money on people who make stupid personal decisions? Why is it our responsibility to waste money on prison costs to keep drug users, who are only a threat to themselves, locked up?

If they are a threat to society, lock them up... I have no problem spending money on that. If you are a threat to yourself, that is Darwinism at work. Survival of the fittest, thin the herd. You destroy your own life with drugs, NOT MY PROBLEM. Stop wasting my money protecting these worthless citizens from killing themselves.

Drugs don't ruin lives, the people CHOOSING to use them ruin their own life. The drugs are not to blame, the person is.

IndieParty: I never blamed anyone for my drug addiction as you seem to claim that I have. Your logic is somewhat cloudy in its reason." Drugs don't ruin lives, the people CHOOSING to use them ruin their own life. The drugs are not to blame, the person is." Is this logic for real? You can use implements to ruin your life, but I have blamed no others for my poor choices. As for the rest of your rant, I wont bother with it since I see that your reasoning is ridiculous and very self indulgant.

Biteme-3470275

I am a recovering drug addict. I have been off the dope for 18 years now.

So let me get this straight, you broke the law so you could get high. You gave money to gangs and maybe even terrorist organizations so you could get high.

None of that stopped you in your pursuit to self-medicate.

How again do you think that continuing the War on Drugs(tm) will be effective?

How again is keeping drugs illegal and ignoring the actual problem of putting these billions spent into treating addiction, effective?

I've never taken any illegal drugs in my life, I don't even smoke. How is it that I've got the discipline to avoid taking drugs while you don't. How come the law didn't dissuade you?

What I'm getting at is that people who want to take drugs, will take drugs. The demand is there, whether the product is illegal or not. You're not going to stop people from taking drugs by making them illegal.

If drugs were as legal coffee and tequila, you would have still taken them and maybe still would have abused them. But at least if there was less stigma behind using a legal substance vs. an illegal one, you probably would have gotten treatment a lot sooner, or at least your family would have spotted it sooner and confronted you.

Since you already were practiced at avoiding the law to support your illegal drug-habit, what's a little bit of extra subterfuge against your family as well, right?

Anyway...you seriously need to reevaluate this War on Drugs that continues. It isn't solving anything.

Heck, it couldn't even stop YOU from taking drugs in excess.

Biteme

My reasoning is ridiculous because I do not believe in wasting money on people like you? Why are your decisions my responsibility? You were stupid, and we all had to waste our money because of it.

Furthermore, the "war on drugs" did not stop you from using. The BILLIONS and BILLIONS we waste did nothing... literally NOTHING, to stop you. And you want to continue to waste this money?

So you want to continue to waste tax dollars... continue to spend money we don't have... on a program, which your life has proven does not work. And you want to continue to waste money, to protect people from themselves... because we are all somehow responsible and need to pay for your bad decisions.

But I am being ridiculous... got it.

Seriously?No...Really?!: Legalizing drugs in this country will make what we are going through now seem like a picnic in the park. I no longer use drugs because I was still smart enough to see that they would eventually kill me. Legalizing drugs will not do anything but make this nation a drug addicted nation. By the way, in case you don't know how to read, I no longer use drugs at all. Not even prescription medication. I have more self control than you do obviously if you want to see drugs legalized. I have seen the worst in people while they are using, and the best in them while they weren't. I don't believe that you have never used since you seem so adamant about legalizing drugs. Legalizing drugs is only a good idea for those who want to waste their lives getting high and for those who want to capitalize off of that. That makes both sides LOSERS.

IndieParty: By legalizing dope I will have to waste my money on people like you. Yes your reasoning is ridiculous. I don't use anymore and obviously you do. I didn't get sober to take care of people like you. You want to get high so bad? Take the risk of getting jailed or killed. That sobered me up 18 years ago and drugs didn't have to be legalized to do that. Again, yes your reasoning is ridiculous.

Because, obviously, if we legalize then EVERYONE will use? I have never smoked a single cigarette or cigar in my life, even though they are legal. Why? Because LEGALIZATION DOES NOT EQUAL USE.

Why do I want them legal? Because I realize that we can not fix our budget problem without a revenue increase. Legalization means that OTHER PEOPLE will pay the increased tax revenue... not me.

So if I get to keep my money, while some moron who decides to ruin his life pays the taxes to help our debt... that is music to my ears. And if it helps take care of our over-population problem, even better. I am just sick of wasting money on something that DOES NOT WORK.

Biteme, oh please. That is the best you can do? Making a desperate assumption about someone you don't know? Really?

I've never touched it, not even once. No dope, no cigarettes, no cigars... not even a f***ing hookah. But I have had to pay for people like YOU my whole life. I am stronger than you. I have said no my entire life. Never a moment of weakness, not one f***ing time. But you... YOU were weak. And we all had to pay for that.

So excuse me if I am sick of people like YOU wasting our money. People like YOU have contributed to the problem we are in.

I've paid my taxes for people like YOU. Now it's time that YOU and your ilk pay up. Now it's time that those who "use" start paying a tax that I don't have to. It's time that the people who the money was wasted on start to pay, and the rest of us get a break.

IndieParty: Dream on. You are not the saint you soap box yourself to be. You have NEVER paid anything for me . You are just another dope fiend that wants an easier way to buy your drug of choice. You are not now nor have you ever been anywhere near as strong as me as you are so willing to give up everything just to get high. Get over yourself and get a life. Your weakness is your willingness to give in. You are truly spineless.

Biteme-3470275

Legalizing drugs in this country will make what we are going through now seem like a picnic in the park

Based on what in reality? Didn't happen when Prohibition was lifted, and that was the excuse used then as well...the fictional letting go of the dam that prevents a deluge of indecency.

You are so naive. I'm just amazed

By the way, in case you don't know how to read, I no longer use drugs at all. Not even prescription medication. I have more self control than you do obviously if you want to see drugs legalized. I have seen the worst in people while they are using, and the best in them while they weren't. I don't believe that you have never used since you seem so adamant about legalizing drugs.

I guess coming from a background of being an addict, and automatically presuming that the differing side to your opinion is wrong, therefore I must be an addict/user right? HAHAHAHA

Nope. I'm actually very straight laced. I see the kind of underground and black market that exists because of this futile war. I think taking away the primary revenue-driver for gangs, dealers, cartels, terrorists and others is far more beneficial than to pack prisons full of non-violent offenders and pretend that we're solving something when we clearly are not.

I no longer use drugs because I was still smart enough to see that they would eventually kill me. Legalizing drugs will not do anything but make this nation a drug addicted nation.

Oh? Care to explain why both Portugal and Amsterdam have very low instances of drug abuse and drug-related crime? Would you like to also support how the US is full of proportionally-more alcoholics now that Prohibition has been lifted?

Scientific American - "5 years after: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results"

By the way, in case you don't know how to read, I no longer use drugs at all. Not even prescription medication.

Just in case you lack reading comprehension, I (and many others) were noting how the law and the War on Drugs acting in conjunction weren't able to stop you from taking drugs.

You can try all of the silly ad hominem attacks and put up as many strawmen that you like. You obviously cannot counter my points in this debate and continue on your little rant, endlessly repeating the same garbage that I and others have countered.

Answer this question:

--How do you expect the War on Drugs to be effective when it wasn't able to stop YOU from taking illegal drugs?

Seriously?:How will legalizing drugs stop ANYONE from using?!How will legalizing drugs stop addiction? Having stopped my using 18 years ago makes your question a mute point, however none of you can answer my simple little question can you? By the way, anyone that wants to legalize drugs is either a user or a pusher. All of your silly little analogies about me cannot dispute that fact. You,IndieParty, and a slew of others out here have blown your cover by your apparent desire to want to get legally high. You are also a spineless coward for wanting to get high without consequence. Would you like to also support how the US is full of proportionally-more alcoholics now that Prohibition has been lifted? Did you read what you wrote? Your own comment just proved that legalizing drugs will CREATE more drug addicts.

Biteme-3470275

How will legalizing drugs stop ANYONE from using?

It won't. YOU, nor I, nor the law, can stop anyone from using and abusing drugs.

But keeping drugs illegal puts money in the pocket of criminals and terrorists because THEY will be the only ones selling it on a black market, and they will be able to charge a super-high price because of it. Basically the harder we fight the War on Drugs, the more money these scumbags make and the more powerful they get!

We can treat addicts, we can offer support to people who need it. But criminals that make a business out of skirting laws and carrying out other criminal acts like killings, shootings, etc. do not serve society.

I'd rather put the resources devoted to imprisoning drug abusers into treatment instead. I'd like to make it so unprofitable for criminal enterprises to sell drugs that the only ones that can do it are legitimate businesses that we can tax and police effectively

unitedstates1776, coral taxi, seriously? No...Really, raddave...If ever there was proof needed that marijuana affected judgement, you four are definite proof.

Personally, I don't care if you smoke drugs until your brains rot. You have seen all the literature on the harmful effects of marijuana and the long term effects. Just like the 20% of the population that demands to smoke cigarettes or large percentage of the U.S. that wants to drink until they get drunk, you are part of the stoned percentage.

The problem is simply that you are not intelligent enough to see down the road and capture and understand the information about the dangerous long term effects of marijuana.

You are where cigarette smokers were 60 years ago. Using the same arguments. It was even declared on television that smoking cigarettes was healthy.

If you didn't come on and spout your stupidity about marijuana not being a dangerous drug, and try and convince yourself you are not doing damage to your body and telling other people to follow your stupid drug use, then I won't have to present the truth.

Have you any idea how ridiculous you all are? You are saying that there is a world wide conspiracy among all the doctors and scientists of the world against YOU! For a reason, that you refuse to name, all these educated people who have done all these studies and have not found one reason for sticking a smoking stick in your mouth and escaping reality and suffering the long term consequences is good for you or at least not harmful.

Just like the cigarette smokers. Hey look, they are smoking and nothing is happening to them! Why don't you go the to the surgical gallery overlooking a lung transplant and watch the doctors taking out a cancerous lung?

And when your kids and grandkids carry down the DNA degradation caused by marijuana and dumb down your gene pool, wonder why.

You are all afraid to go to the thousands of pages on the net that warn you of the consequences of smoking marijuana. You want to refuse to look at the scientific evidence and bathe in your ignorance.

You refuse to look at the studies how smoking slows down reaction time and affects the body. You can't find one study that refutes these 1000's of studies.

Just look at high school seniors, they are so afraid to take SAT's because they know their scores are going to be low and hire people to take the tests for them. They don't trust their ability to get good scores.

Go out and get stoned, that's all you are good for. And watch out for that sharp turn that that lamp post!

Seriously?: I see your point about taking the money out of the hands of the criminals. I just think we can do that without the legalizing drugs. I dont know how, but I know there has to be a better way than legalization. The ATF is still fighting the moonshiners and bootleggers in the south east even with alcohol legalized. By legalizing drugs, people are still going to want to get around the law due to the lure of money and that will make them an even more desperate criminal.

Biteme's argument is flawed. He/she claims that if drugs are legalized, all the sudden more people will use drugs and sober citizens will have to pay for their habits. Ok sure that makes sense. Except it doesn't. We are already spending on prohibition. We are losing cash to the cartels. People are getting fired for things that aren't work related. Kids are getting kicked out of school who have good grades and a bright future. We are paying to prosecute and house a lot of innocent citizens. If you legalize marijuana, these losses not only disappear, but you get to tax it and create new industries/jobs. How does legalizing drugs cost anything, let alone more than prohibition? You could try to argue that increased drug use would cost more in terms of healthcare but you wouyld be negelcting the fact that legalization in other countries have not ever been known to increase use rates. The fact is even if you are 100% against drugs, legalization will save money, lower drug related health problems, and save countless lives from violence. I just watched one of those above the influence commercials where they show a teenager running along rooftops and jumping from building to building with an ear to ear grin. That sounds like a perfectly safe alternative to drugs. Biteme says people are spineless for wanting to get high responsibly without consequences. They should be brave enough to try flying above sky scrapers I guess.

Portugal decriminalized drug use. The people found using get fines and mandatory counseling. The most recent survey found the following:

Lifetime use of illicit drugs increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin from 0.7% to 1.1% It has been proposed that this effect may have been been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use. Statistical trends in neighboring Spain and Italy during the same period also suggested an unclear relation between decriminalization and increased drug use, comparatively.

That seems pretty clear. Take away the punishment of uses drugs and drug use increases. Drug sellers still get jail time.

In reality Portugal's drug problem can not be compared to U.S. as Portugal has only 3 % of the U.S. population and the annual income is less than 25% of the U.S. Therefore drugs are expensive and not used by the lower class.

Wilsonaide. Your "facts" about the damage caused by marijuana and smoking it are antiquated and false. I think if these things were true, it would make sense to be opposed to marijuana use. Since they are false, you are foolish for attacking those who know more than you do. You are foolish for perpetuating disproven ideas. You are foolish for not seeing the writing on the wall. Foolish for discriminating against a large section of the population for not agreeing with your incorrect views. You are preaching to an out of touch choir of hateful vengeful and illogical people. Bottom line, cannabis is medically beneficial, one of the least harmful medicines known to man, and a big threat to your delusions. Your last quote even said the increased report of illicit drug use in portugal could be due to increased honesty. So it is not "pretty clear." Educate yourself if your judgemental ego can take the hit.

blahblah-2632236 go argue with the scientists and research mds around the world. If you keep your opinions to yourself and sit on your rear smoking, then you would not have to defend yourself. You couldn't read my comment and you are not answering it. Foolish is a word best used to describe yourself.

All professional sports ban maijuana. If it is such a safe great drug, then why is it banned in professional sports, vehicle driving, all work places, schools and professional work places?

Everyone else is wrong and only you are right! Two of the side effects of marijuana is paranoia and having a persecution complex. Sound familiar?

If you believe all the scientific and medical published reports from around the globe are false, you are saying that you are more intelligent and have conducted more studies than the rest of the foremost experts in the field. There is not one study that demonstrates that marijuana is safe.

Don't you mean a large section of potheads?

You have any idea how stupid you are and sound?

@ wilsonaide

I like how you prattle on about my intelligence without addressing even one of my points, or any others comments for that matter. You clearly are adamant against legalization...fine. But I contend that this rout does not work, and I've carefully labelled not only how it didn't work in the 1920's with Prohibition, but of the additional negative externalities associated with fighting a war using this direction.

While I may disagree with Biteme-3470275, at least he's been more rational about the whole thing in our debate.

Anyway.

Biteme-3470275

Seriously?: I see your point about taking the money out of the hands of the criminals. I just think we can do that without the legalizing drugs.

I'm open for suggestions, I'm not thrilled about the proposition of more people taking drugs, but as I weigh the problems between addicts vs. criminal syndicates, and use the history of Prohibition being lifted as a foundation for my assumptions, I think I would rather nullify a major source of revenue for criminals/terrorists and use the money I save on drug enforcement, prisons, etc and what would be earned through taxation like on alcohol and tobacco to make clinics more available and better funded, step up campaigns to educate on the health risks of drug use etc.

As an interesting note, there are fewer people in the US that are smoking. This is a drug that has the same addictive levels as heroin. Yet fewer people are using it. Education and self-discipline is forcing tobacco companies to look abroad for growth-markets. We might be able to see the same thing with other drugs eventually if we had legalized them as well after Prohibition.

I dont know how, but I know there has to be a better way than legalization.

That solves nothing unfortunately. Sure, be optimistic...but also be realistic.

Think about alternatives that could actually work, and better still, find examples that support it.

Right now, the War on Drugs is a failure. Supply is more than capable of meeting demand. Heck, the price on most drugs according to the FBI is actually dropping! From an economic perspective, it means that the volume has increased or it is now cheaper than ever to produce and distribute it. If the War on Drugs was started to prevent the sale and consumption of drugs, we can show definitively that drugs are still widely available, and being readily consumed by those that want them.

Come up with viable suggestions. Things that actually stand a chance of working and come bring them up. Unfortunately, simply insisting that there has to be an alternative puts us nowhere closer to a solution to neither the drug violence, nor the abuse.

@wilsonsad;

Personally, I don't care if you smoke drugs until your brains rot. You have seen all the literature on the harmful effects of marijuana and the long term effects. Just like the 20% of the population that demands to smoke cigarettes or large percentage of the U.S. that wants to drink until they get drunk, you are part of the stoned percentage.

Wow arent you the preSumptuous one. To think that just because someone is pro legalization that they are pot heads,or even smoke pot is ignorant. There are many that do not smoke that are for legalization. To say different is very naive.

you are part of the stoned percentage.

Umm no mam, you are in the ignorant percentage,which is probably a far worse and more dangerous one to be in.

If you didn't come on and spout your stupidity about marijuana not being a dangerous drug, and try and convince yourself you are not doing damage to your body and telling other people to follow your stupid drug use, then I won't have to present the truth.

We made comments on how legalization would decrease cartel violence,and revenue. Neither of us(TAXI OR 1776) said marijuanna was not dangerous,or talked about the dangers where do you get off saying we did?

Have you any idea how ridiculous you all are?

Umm no, do you?lol

Go out and get stoned, that's all you are good for. And watch out for that sharp turn that that lamp post!

Mam,it sounds as if you are the one that needs to take the edges off.lol,WOW!

Oh, and just to let you know they just completed a 20yr study,that shows use over time had no ill effects on the lungs,also 2 weeks ago another study on memory showed that users scored just as high and some higher on memory test,so I believe "blahblahblah",lol, is right, your information is old and outdated.

.

@ wilsonsad;

You have any idea how stupid you are and sound?

One could ask themselves this question at times.

Do you notice you are the only insultive defensive one? You seem to have more issues than we,and yet you say we are the stupid, and stoned ones?

Coral Taxi, your ignorance is showing. You have not read any of the scientific or medical reports on the harmful effects of marijuana. Had you read them, you would not be advocating for its legalization and use. Cigarette smoking is harmful. It was allowed before the effects were known and now the health costs from smoking are astronomical. And that is not considering the social and monetary costs and the fact that smoking is endemic in the poorer strata of the U.S. population, which can least afford it.

Decrease Cartel Violence! You are completely naive! Mexico is completely corrupt and will be several times past your life time if ever that Mexican corruption is tamed. The drug cartel has branched out into kidnappings, extortion, money laundering, heroin and cocaine.

News for you, the drug cartel is in league with the Mexican government. A few bodies, a few arrests, a few million dollars collected. Less than 10% of the drug people captured actually spend time in jail.

Your thoughts on this subject would be laughable, if it wasn't such a serious topic.

And you wore the edges off your thinking processes a long time ago. You have no knowledge how the drug cartel works and how they get the drugs to the border!

DUH there are three routes. Middle, east coast and west coast. How many government blockades are there? Come on use that marijuana soaked brain!

No the 20 year study that was published was on the lungs not memory.

SEE YOU CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU READ! You get the same effect on lung capacity by doing deep breathing exercises for diving and swimming. And if you go back and read that study slowly you will see that the word addictive used several times and it was only done on people who smoked 1-2 roaches a week.

Jesus you are a nincompoop.

Coral Taxi, You are defensive not me. I object to the dumbing down of America through the use of a harmful drug. Smoking marijuana has been proven to alter the DNA sequence. Especially the sites related to learning, attention, intelligence etc. This will cause a decrease in the production of smart people.

Remember Rome and the Egyptians? Remember the forensic analysis of the mummies and skeletons and the analysis of the pottery? Remember the extremely high levels of lead? The research that lead was one of the causes due to its effect on mental abilities? Try reading and studying. I know it is difficult.

There is a saying if it isn't broke don't fix it. And it applies to drugs. If the human mind is making great leaps forward in thinking, intelligence and understanding, why damage it with saturating it with harmful chemical substances such as found in marijuana?

wilsonaide

Cigarette smoking is harmful. It was allowed before the effects were known and now the health costs from smoking are astronomical. And that is not considering the social and monetary costs and the fact that smoking is endemic in the poorer strata of the U.S. population, which can least afford it.

Would making tobacco products illegal save the US from the health effects of smoking it? You seem to argue to that point but you have not addressed how this is possible.

Are you doubly assuming that we won't already be shouldering the cost from people consuming illegal drugs and suffering the health consequences? We already are. Smoking anything is going to cause some level of damage to ones lungs and doing it repeatedly is even worse.

Decrease Cartel Violence! You are completely naive! Mexico is completely corrupt and will be several times past your life time if ever that Mexican corruption is tamed. The drug cartel has branched out into kidnappings, extortion, money laundering, heroin and cocaine.

Most of the Cartel's revenues come from dealing illegal drugs. They aren't making it from selling coffee. And if they were able to fund the standing armies that they have mobilized against the Mexican government through kidnappings and extortion alone, I don't think they'd waste their time on Marijuana and poppy farming/refinement/distribution

News for you, the drug cartel is in league with the Mexican government. A few bodies, a few arrests, a few million dollars collected. Less than 10% of the drug people captured actually spend time in jail.

Yup! And where do you think they get their money and afford the necessary manpower to bribe and intimidate the politicians?

And you wore the edges off your thinking processes a long time ago. You have no knowledge how the drug cartel works and how they get the drugs to the border!

Do you? You seem all too ready to criticize other people both directly and their assertions without actually presenting any alternatives of your own. Do you have one? Do you think the War on Drugs is working?

Jesus you are a nincompoop.

You lack any sort of credibility with all of your personal attacks.

@ wilsonsad;

Coral Taxi, your ignorance is showing. You have not read any of the scientific or medical reports on the harmful effects of marijuana. Had you read them, you would not be advocating for its legalization and use

I give you two recent examples that I have read,that you did not even know about. and you come back with this statement?lol

Decrease Cartel Violence! You are completely naive! Mexico is completely corrupt and will be several times past your life time.

I give you gleaming example IN POST 1;28 of how legalization would reduce revenue and violence with source,and once again you come back with this statement? .You are something else.

coral taxi;Oh, and just to let you know they just completed a 20yr study,that shows use over time had no ill effects on the lungs,also 2 weeks ago another study on memory showed that users scored just as high and some higher on memory test,so I believe "blahblahblah",lol, is right, your information is old and outdated.

No the 20 year study that was published was on the lungs not memory.

SEE YOU CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU READ!

You are the one who can not retain what they have read,do you not see the words" also two weeks ago another study on memory"!! that would mean a diffferent study mam,to presume I am confused is a major fail,you are the one misreading what I have wrote.Just as you misquoted us earlier. And were called on it.

Jesus you are a nincompoop

Yes it is I that is the nincompoop,not you. Major face palm.wow

You haven't shown any study on memory. Coral Taxi, you are too ignorant for words. You have to read the study, see who funded it and where it is published. Then the study has to be repeated by serious scientists to make sure that the study was properly done and the results can be duplicated.

You are no scientists or doctor. You are an inconsequential layman with some made up ideas.

I lived in Mexico and saw the conveys of trucks loaded with marijuana go up the western route protected by federal police cars. Look at the Portugal study. Marijuana Heroin and Cocaine use all went up when criminalized use laws were removed. Read and learn.

You are so impaired by drug use you can't comprehend what scientists world wide agree upon

Just paranoid and have a persecution complex. Too much drug use. I see you don't know anything about the harmful long term DNA damage caused by marijuana use. I am sure you have the equipment and the electron microscopes to challenge the scientific findings.

All I see from you is a lot of words and no back up. Anyone can comment but you are all talk. Again just go off and sit in that cloud of smoke and dumb yourself down.

@ Coral Taxi

I'm tired of feeding the trolls. I put wilsonaide on ignore and I already feel better.

I really don't think he bothers to read the posts of people that he criticizes, you should see his insane rantings on illegal immigration after my post in 3.13.

He seems to think I'm pro-illegal immigration, or at the very least soft on it. And he copy pastes random stuff into his post like its some sort of rebuttal

The guy is a lunatic.

Anyone who cannot comment competently and has to resort to insults and can not produce facts is not worth being here to comment. If you are a troll feeder, then you know a lot about not only lunatics but trolls. Now exactly where did you get all this lunatic and troll information? Must be very close and up close.

The word is route not rout.

You are not smart enough to figure out how to stop cigarette smoking? That unintelligent eh?

And you don't know how to stop the drugs? Avoidance is your strong suit. The message is that drugs harm the human body, you and your friends believe that telling the big lie often enough is going to make it true. Such a very stupid uneducated man.

@ serioulsy; Here,here,I concur,thought I would bite just in case. I am done with wilsonsad also.

Oh and wilsonsad,the word is convoy,not "convey" of trucks(and you bust on others spelling,lol). You've been served and are just in denial,your come backs are weak and hold no water.

Yes we are all stupid and you are the brilliant one.Another major face palm. shakes head.

And you don't know how to stop the drugs?

And you do? After FORTY YEARS of a failed 'War on Drug,' they are still in EVERY city, and EVERY state. NOT ONE CITY is 'clean!'

You CAN'T stop drug use, and keeping it illegal only puts the profits and the control into outlaw's hands. Cartels pay no taxes, tolerate no oversight or regulation, enforce their boundaries at the point of a gun, and even worse, CHECK NO ID. A cartel will sell to your kid without a second thought, at least age regulation has a better chance of keeping it out of MY kids hands.

The drug war is a miserable failure on EVERY level. Anyone who can't recognize/admit that, needs help.

The cartels don't just send MJ across the border they ship a great deal of cocaine. Since MJ is bulky they are trying to solve that problem by growing it in Miami. Take away drugs as a source of income they will find something else to sell and fight over. As for Mexican oil production, increases will do nothing for the people who become mules the money will stay in the hands of the rich pemex millionaires and their stuck up bratty kids from Monterrey and Mexico City. The cartels have already branched into human smuggling moving out the independant smugglers. So legalizing MJ will do nothing to solve the problem.

Wilson you are only reading studies that support your beliefs. Try doing some more thorough research. Marijuana is not proven harmful. Marijuana causes a persecution complex? Really? And I thought that being persecuted caused one to feel that way.

Just another example of how prohibitionists will imply causality in any instance of correlation. It's similar to the way in which claims are made that marijuana causes schizophrenia. Records have been kept for over 100 years and the rate of this disease has remained mostly constant at ~1% while the use of cannabis during this same period has increased tremendously.

The same governent that says marijuana is dangerous and of no medical use holds patents on cannabinoids for medical use. They also require that any study wishing to show marijuana is beneficial are denied funding and access to the drug. This is why there are so many biased research papers on the subject.

I don't need to argue with researchers. Other researchers are doing this. They have been dismissing your claims one by one for a while now. If you choose not to listen to the more modern and accurate research, sticking your head in the sand, I can't help it. You can list all the statistical evidence you want, but there are millions of people that use the stuff without any of the problems you purport.

"You and your friends believe that telling the big lie often enough is going to make it true."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for explaining the mentality behind prohibition and fear mongering. Your incorrect stance is that cannabis is dangerous, so you will spread lies and impose ridiculous laws until it is dangerous......to get caught.

this happened when meth cooks could no longer buy cold medicine over the counter by the shopping cart. It created a new drug trade out of mexico ,thats what they are fighting over....look at the timeline.. good weed is grown here and what comes out of mexico along with coke has come for decades. It's the meth trade that is new, and what they are fighting over...start selling cartloads of cold meds at wallyworld again and thiis will be over.

To understand Mexico, the first and most important thing to know is that Mexico is 100% corrupt. The Mexican government rules with an iron fist if someone runs afoul of it and doesn't have the influence and money to get oneself out of a problem.

This is Calderon's last year and last opportunity to steal as much as he can, i.e. get the most bribes. Killing a few underlings is the price of operating in Mexico. Life is cheap.

It is very simple for the drug cartel members to get all the guns they want. Just a bit simpler to get them to the border with their network in the states. As drug cartel own the ports, shipping weapons into Mexico is very easy.

Wilson, I pretty much said that in two sentences.

You sir.. are fruity and crazy for thinking that.

One killed every half hour... and 30 anchor babies born!!!

there is no such thing as "anchor babies" they are called U.S. citizens.

Yeah! Isn't it great?

The majority grow up to take advantage of U.S. taxpayer funded Section 8 housing, WIC and medicare, all the time working for cash paying jobs. Then they send all that cash back to Mexico to begin the cycle all over again.

Hey Raddave. We need to put an end to birthright citizenship right now. We are the only country that has this outdated crappy law. Parents come here to have those Anchor Babies so they can get our wellfare , and food stamps. I go to work and have money taken from my check so they can refuse to learn English, fly the Mexican flag, and have them demand that we give the entire southwest back to Messico. I'm telling you there is a cultural war brewing in this country. 05/05/2012

At this rate, 1 every 15 minutes, how long will it take before they wipe themselves out?

No madcitizen, wer are NOT the only country that has that CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. there is no cultural war in this country, except by rednecks such as yourself.

Oh, but there is, and I'm not a "redneck".

Thankyou, delainey! I'm not a redneck either.

Auzziegirl......."anchor babies" ahahahhaah well last i check US is the land of the immigrants........and well you dont really have a base on that to be honest. I suggest more reading and less ignorance. =)

Now the fact that undocumented people come to the US for safety and a means of survival that they cannot find in their native country...means they care for life and the life of their children. You say "anchor babies" right? Well obviously you wouldnt be a fit person to care enough for your children if you were in that situation......

i'm a redneck...guess we all can't be status symbols...

Wait a second. Someone calling herself "Auzziegirl" is complaining about immigrants? How does that work? Shouldn't she be telling herself to go hime?

I grew up in a barillo in Southern California.

If you would like to know what it's like to allow unfettered illegal immigration and want to understand how it drains the local economies greatly...please, by all means get an apartment in Sylmar, Pacoima, Arleta, and the gorgeous Panorama City!

The thing that really irks me about people who are soft on illegal immigration...they ALL come from nice little whitewashed suburban neighborhoods.

Aside from what was mentioned about about how anchor babies are used to gain access to a number of public benefits, lets also add another important factor.

Illegal aliens don't call the cops. What do you think happens in a neighborhood where people refuse to call the cops when there's some nasty illegal activity going on? Nothing happens! Areas with a lot of illegal aliens are also a hive for gangs, drug dealers, prostitutes, thieves, vandals, etc etc etc.

The residents, especially the illegals are incredibly abused by these scum...and the illegals still won't call the cops!

Lastly. I'd like to take a moment to discuss the illegals themselves. Many are fantastically nice people and very welcoming if they think you aren't a threat/snitch. They are incredibly hard working and really just want to earn a living. However, most of them don't consider themselves American, nor do they want to be, and they will be quick to correct their kids if they think they are. Most of the adults would talk about how they want to save up enough money to go to their homeland and live like a Patro'n.

We need to do 2 important things. Remove birthright citizenship for children born of non-citizens and we need to start cracking down heavily on employers of illegal aliens that are skirting OSHA laws, payroll taxes, etc. If we got rid of the #1 reason for most illegals to break US law, we would solve a great proportion of our illegal immigration problem.

Ending the War on Drugs would solve the rest, along with much much more.

Seriously? No...Really?! How many people from South and Central America are signed up to legally enter the U.S.? How many people are accepted by the U.S. legally every year to immigrate legally into the U.S.? You talk big but you don't know the facts that are readily available on the net.

You line up to buy movie tickets? You line up for your visit to the clinic? You line up for your free flu and pneumonia shot? You line up to get gasoline?

Hey isn't that great in the U.S. you get service when you wait your turn. It isn't like in Mexico where people jump the line by bullying their way in, is it?

Illegals jumped the line and forced other people back. They took jobs away from people who waited years to get into the U.S. I am glad you like that. Let me know the next time you are on line for something and I will cut in ahead of you and tell you stuff it, you wrote on the net it was alright to jump the line.

raddave Yes there are anchor babies and the concept is new. Mexico was a peaceful country many years ago, much more peaceful than the U.S. Mexico has always been extremely corrupt. Not many years ago police paid to be policemen. They were issued guns and cars and from what they extorted, a percentage was passed up the line to the superiors etc.

Guns don't have to come from the U.S. It is just easier to get them from the drug network already set up in the U.S.

Latest survey published on the msnbc.com about marijuana definitely stated that marijuana was addictive. People do get dependent on it. Cigarette smokers are dependent on the addictive substances. The degree of addiction is dependent on the individual person. Try reading and understanding the scientific reports. If people didn't get high and enjoy it and want to continue to get high, then they wouldn't get dependent and addictive. You prove your own lie.

@ wilsonaide

How does anything I have written relate to your response?

How many people from South and Central America are signed up to legally enter the U.S.? How many people are accepted by the U.S. legally every year to immigrate legally into the U.S.? You talk big but you don't know the facts that are readily available on the net.

I talk big? No, I talk eloquently, LOL. Anyway, did you even read my post?

Illegals jumped the line and forced other people back. They took jobs away from people who waited years to get into the U.S.

Indeed. I'm anti-illegal immigration. If you bothered to read my post, you would have easily seen that. Both in the first 3 sentences, and again in the last 2 paragraphs.

I discussed:

1. Illegals drain the local economy where they live and work by disproportionately consuming public services while working under the table
2. Areas where illegals live are safe havens for gangs and crime because illegals do not call the police and seem to have little concern for the health of the neighborhoods they live in.
3. While many are nice and hard working, all of the illegals that I have met and others I know of all do not consider themselves American in any way, shape or form. They are here to earn money and hope to one day leave...that is all. Considering the disproportionately large amount of public services they consume, this is the behavior of a parasite.
4. To solve the illegal immigration problem, we need only revise the 14th amendment and crack down on the employers that are breaking the law hiring illegals in the first place. If illegals don't have work, they have less reason to come here.

There's an outline for you.

If you still don't get it, you're beyond help.

Seriously no Really Your ignorance is showing. All people from central and south America are Americans. The people from the United States are Americans from the United States. The laws are in effect and Obummer doesn't want to stop illegal immigration as he is going to depend on the poor and Latin vote.

Your lack of understanding and solution only furthers how irresponsible your comments are.

The city, local and state governments have the right to hold illegal immigrants. The immigration department when it does a raid registers the illegals, sets a date for them to return and releases them. Raiding the factories will not do any good unless, the illegals are put in detention and immediately removed.

Your lack of knowledge is appalling.

@ wilsonaide

Awwww...you're so cute

you just need someone to complain to don't you? You really aren't reading posts.

Glad I've got you on ignore...enjoy oblivion

I thought you were putting me on ignore? You lack the desire to do the research to understand how legal and illegal immigration works here and what part the administration is playing to avoid enforcing the laws.

I really don't give a damn about you. But as you misrepresent what is happening, then I have to set the record straight. There is the truth and there is deliberate misrepresentation and lies.

Auzziegirl grow up I live on the border just becase 8out of 10 people speak spanish doesn't mean most are illegal. Most were born in the US. A small percentage of section 8 housing here might be illegals but even they most likely have anchor children ( children born in the US and therefor citizens not deportable). To get section 8 housing you have to show income which means a job that pays fica taxes. There is probably no more gang activity here than in Chicago probably less and not a neighborhood in Brownsville I won't drive thru. As long as there is the possibility of a better life here they will keep coming thru dangerous river currents or deserts.

You already said that. Legalizing coke, meth, etc. is not the answer.

Why, hotshot?

hcdouglass, it is the answer.

Study the Prohibition of the 1920's to understand why.

Once prohibition ended all of the massive gang violence on the streets of our country dried up and disappeared.

People have a right to use the intoxicant of their choice. If it harms them because they are stupid about what they use then that is a personal problem. It is not for the government to tell people what intoxicants can put into their body.

This is a matter of personal liberty and personal responsibility.

.

If we legalize the drugs as you suggest, do you really think the Zetas and other cartels are going to give up their weapons and power? I suggest, sir, that Mexico is on the threshold of a violent revolution. I am not sure of the solution, but an earlier comment spoke of the oil, education, etc issues in Mexico. My brother is a Border Patrol agent, his wife is a naturalized American, born in Mexico, and I am very concerned for their lives. Legalizing the drugs is NOT going to make the border safer or reduce Mexican violence. It is already spreading into America, with MS13 being the most prevalent Hispanic gang. I am a thousand miles from the border, but only 30 miles from the nearest MS13 sub-group. I am always armed.

Jon-2149156, just as in the prohibition of the 1920's when it was finally repealed in 1933 it will bankrupt all these gangs and within 10 years these drug cartels and drug gangs will be relegated to the history books.

.

UnitedStates1776 You really demonstrate your ignorance and lack of ability to concentrate. You demonstrate your paranoia and persecution complex. You complete inability to form rational statements and demonstrate any facts to contradict the thousands of documents that demonstrate the harmful effects of marijuana, demonstrate how bent you are.

http://norml.org/library/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana

United States1776 You have no idea what causes violence in Mexico. After you have spent 5-10 years there, you can comment. You have no idea. Just a blowhard, trying to show off some infantile opinions.

Absolutely no knowledge of the long term and short term effects of marijuana. Tell me why if marijuana is as safe as or safer that cigarettes is it banned as an illegal substance at all professional levels of sports, college sports and most businesses in the U.S.

You are paranoid and have a persecution complex.

Just a blowhard, trying to show off some infantile opinions.

We see that in your writing wilsonaide, no need to brag.

Tell me why if marijuana is as safe as or safer that cigarettes is it banned as an illegal substance at all professional levels of sports, college sports and most businesses in the U.S.

Because the persecution of 'drug-users' has reach an epidemic level. Cannabis is non-lethal, it is no physically addictive, it actually has been found to have potential anti-cancer benefits, smoking it does NOT lead to lung cancer, despite a higher level of carcinogens than cigarette smoke.

Yes, it can make you dizzy, paranoid, can cause chronic bronchitis, can exacerbate EXISTING schizophrenia, forgetful, memory loss, etc.

Alcohol KILLS 75,000 Americans/year

Tobacco KILLS 445,000 Americans/year

Cannabis kills ZERO Americans/year

Why is cannabis illegal again? Oh, because it is against the law. Well, that makes all the sense in the world.

If we legalize the drugs as you suggest, do you really think the Zetas and other cartels are going to give up their weapons and power?

Not willingly, but with all of the tax-free regulation-free oversight-free drug profits GONE, they will have to come up with something QUICK, as their distribution is taken over by American FARMERS who could use the money.

Do you really think the mafia and other gangs ceased to exist simply because booze became legal again? They just moved into gambling, prostitution, loan sharking and overtook some of the unions and by the way built Vegas. The cartels have already forced out the independent illegal smugglers and taken over, they have branched out into internet child porn and trafficing in false documents. By the way none of those gangs went bankrupt they are still there dealing in many other things. I know from personal experience.

Wilsonaide, you're a complete and utter mo ron.

You're a sicko.

too funny

Easy, they buy them here, where there are no gun control laws and takes them back across the border.

They should completely get rid of those laws.. currently only the bad guys have guns. They should allow normal citizens to legally carry.. i bet killings would go up for a bit initially but then the bad guys would think twice about what they're doing now to innocent victims.

Well this really cool super secret program initiated by our Attorney General literally gave the cartels their weapons. So ingenious...

The Justice Department supplies guns via Fast and Furious to the drug cartels.

ROB, that super secret program has been going on before this Attorney General took office. It is to gain intelligence on how thos weapons are smuggled across the border.

RaDave - ahhh, wrong. Most of their arms are smuggled in OR supplied by the damn army. Look at the busts. Loads of cash, coke, pot and grenade launchers, full auto M60's, etc. However there is a very good supply coming from the North as well.

Just not the really good stuff.

what are you talking about hoser?

who are you kidding you are ab A/h

!!

Yes, it has, in Tijuana. It has almost as much violence as Juarez.

For an interactive map, see:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32049643/ns/world_news-americas/t/mexican-cartels/#.Tw9bWoHNl8E

So the United States legalizes drugs. Then what?

You don't see people killing eachother in the streets over booze and cigarettes do you?

Let me move into kidnapping and extortion, at least we won't be the ones funding it.

Read the history of Alcohol Prohibition. After Alcohol Prohibition was ended the violence and gangs reduced significantly. You take away the insane profits that can be made with a banned substance and the majority of people that are in the gangs will leave. Most people only get into the drug trade because the risk versus the reward is so high.

GiadaAL,

Ignore the bong tooters, that's why they call it dope!

MRZ go back to sipping your martini and be glad that alcohol is not still prohibited..

Whether someone smokes marijuana or not has nothing to do with the legitimacy of their argument.

Clearly drug prohibition isn't working. In fact, it has exploded the number of addicts, criminals, laws, and addictiveness of drugs so effectively that it would seem that it was a ploy all along just to enslave people to one or more of many masters: 1) addiction, 2) a life of crime, since those arrested for drug offenses aren't REHABILITATED and become basically unemployable upon release, 3) government-endorsed, ridiculously overpriced prescription drugs that don't typically cure anything and can be as addictive as some illegal drugs or MORE SO and kill MORE people, 4) big-government or corporate meddling in one's PRIVATE life, 5) private prisons that make money based on how many people fill their cells... etc. Am I forgetting any? Should be enough for a rational individual who actually gives a sh*t about others.

So, go ahead and ridicule other people without presenting any reasons why you think they are wrong. Shields your (probably) worthless arguments from examination and refute and makes you feel better than people who have something to say while you do nothing but throw tomatoes.

And you have the b*lls to call other people dopes? Funny, so many who smoke pot, or advocate for rational drug policy seem so to be so much more thoughtful than you...

Ever hear of Carl Sagan? Was he a dope? The idea that because someone does a "drug" means they are stupid is about as baseless as an idea can be.

GiadaAL, you're absolutely correct. If people think that the cartels will completely walk away from making obscene amounts of money off drugs when they're legalized without replacing their cash flow with produces such as sex slaves or child prositution, they're compleley delusional. You think we have sex crime problems now? Legalize drugs and see what happens.

So the demand for illegal sex is going to increase if illegal drugs are suddenly legal?

How does that make any sense?

Essentially your argument is "I don't care about the drugs themselves, but by keeping them illegal, fewer children will be sold as sex slaves?"

The organizations will collapse. There will be remnants that move on to other criminal activity: theft, kidnapping, that sort of thing. But that is already happening. Drugs are easy f$#&ing money, which is why these organizations are so powerful in the first place. Theft and kidnapping are NOT easy money. You can't just produce a kidnap victim, or make a kidnap victim more valuable by adding a chemical to it. You can't increase the value of a stolen item by making people's brains crave it more.

Your argument, while not entirely unfounded in terms of theft (as was seen after the repeal of alcohol prohibition), or kidnapping (which already happens) is extraordinarily exaggerated and completely unrealistic. But even if that were to happen, instead of all the money being poured into police organizations to stop people from getting high, they could actually investigate kidnappings, theft, and increase community security and decrease VIOLENCE and REAL crimes against people.

@ ConstitutionThumper

Agreed. And just like the lifting of Prohibition, they will be dragged kicking and screaming into full legalization, as that is where most countries are ultimately headed considering how this whole venture is costing each nation billions to attempt to enforce.

Domino, you're absolutely correct. Prostitution is another victimless activity which should never have been criminalized. The amount of misery caused by self righteous laws intended to infringe on other peoples freedom, just because some people can't mind their own business, is appalling.

FactOfTheMatter DUI kills and maims how many people a year? Alcohol and cigarette smoking increases the health care burden how much? A lung transplant costs $300,000. And your insurance is not going to cover that. It is the insurance payment from how many people? Alcoholism costs how much in health costs each year? There really should be a super premium for people who drink and smoke. I don't want to pay 6,000-7,000 a year in health insurance to cover the cost of drunks and cigarette smokers. You add up all the people who die from cigarette health issues and alcohol related illnesses and deaths and you have a hell of a lot more than the 45,000 killed in Mexico in two years from the drug cartels.

FactOfTheMatter DUI kills and maims how many people a year? Alcohol and cigarette smoking increases the health care burden how much?

More big government BS. You want a giant bureaucracy for a government nannying what people can and can't do, that's fine, I just don't want to pay for it. Because in addition to those burdens you just talked about, we're spending billions of dollars fighting a losing drug war.

Not a single person in America who wanted drugs ever said, "Oh no, we can't get some [insert drug] because the government is on top of it." Ergo, the war is over, drugs won.

So we can continue flushing money down the drain or we can reallocate that money to actually help people who are addicted to drugs. Killing the supply never worked, so let's alleviate the demand. Also, by removing restrictions on the supply, the prices of drugs will drop a whole lot, thus making it difficult for American citizens dollars to go into the hands of the cartels.

Here here! let's go have a beer and celebrate

Has nothing to do with "Fast and Furious", but you wingnut keep spewing that nonesense.

raddave, tell that to the dead border patrol agents family.stop spewing your left wing liberal nonsense.your posts are completely idiotic.think about what you type before you actually type it.

Weapons we shipped down there for their military are in the hands of cartels.. Grenades can't be bought at the local gun store..

No but many semi auto weapons are available in gun stores in border states which can be converted for about $5 each. We used to only check cars going north now ICE checks cars going south too. The cartels think we're so dumb their idiot leaders come here for vacation. One was caught in a traffic stop in a city of 5,000 25 miles from the port of entry.

Herbicide air sprays to destroy all the coca plants. Just make sure it doesn't have the same affects as agent orange.

@ VeniVidiVici

CIA has been doing that in cooperation with South American countries for over 30 years.

The tactic hasn't even put a dent in the supply of opiates into the US, in fact, the FBI has shown that drug prices have been dropping across the board, supply has clearly been able to keep up with, and in many respects, exceed demand.

Not only are drugs still readily available, there are people in maximum security prisons that are actively using heroin. If we can't stop drugs from making it into our prisons, how do expect to be able to feasibly guard thousands of miles of boarders and coastlines.

We need to refocus our laws in a manner where people must be responsible for their own actions. If they want to ruin their lives with drugs, there's really nothing that any of us can do to stop them...it's not as if the law has stopped anyone from taking drugs in the past. Heck, there are quite a few people on this very thread that talk about being recovering addicts. The law didn't stop them for a moment.

loll

agree.

Wake up call NO its the US!!!!!!! We are who we are....a powerful and developed nation at the expense of the small developing nations. WE ARE THE "RUSTY DUMPSTER" bud!

Kate, by some estimates 80% of the drugs from Mexico go to the US. Legalizing some of those drugs would make a huge inpact towards reducing the violence there.

Any medical expenses associated with lealizing drugs would be overwhelmingly offset by reduced incarceration expenses. 2/3 of all federal prisoners are there for non-violent drug offenses.

And if drugs are legalized who's gonna pay for medical treatment on people that live here from drugs effects ODs and Substance abuse not to mention people high on drugs responsible for other peoples lives , people with jobs that directly affect the safety of others . NO the best way to stop this insanity is to take up arms use our military and seal off our borders and that includes every square ft of border and then go into Mexico and destroy all dug cartels round them up and terminate them

The same people who pay for the treatment of gambling addicts, booze hounds and all of the other destructive vices that are legal.

Sealing the border? Although I am for it that will never stop the flow unless we can produce it ourselves in the states.

Alan - Who is payng for it now? You do understand that OD's happen on an all too frequent basis, right? OD's happen both on drugs and alchohol. And what about the people who are dieing becuase the drugs they use are tainted by lethal chemicals? Wouldn't it be better if there were some form of quality control like there is now on alchohol? Any idea how many people dies during the prohibition of alcholhol? How many peole went blind? Yes, people were severly harmed and even died becuase a lot of the alchohol was poisoned or just plain bad. This ended when prohibition ended.

Huh so the show moonshiners is a fictional, reality show you are an idiot. People still make,transport and sell moonshine in this country. Illegal pot is stronger than the legalized stuff you think legalizing it is going to work. You live in Wonderland. And what about the next drug that comes along and should we also legalise coke? I'm already upset because I worked for 42 years to get SS and I know of people who never worked and burned their brains out with drugs who now are getting SSI on disability claims. You'll be paying for them longer than you'll pay mine. They started collecting much earlier.

People still make,transport and sell moonshine in this country.

True, but at a FAR reduced level from during prohibition.

Illegal pot is stronger than the legalized stuff

You are just making that up. Source?

should we also legalise coke?

Yes, or do you think leaving it in the hands of drug dealers is a better idea? You still aren't getting it. Making it illegal DOESN'T MAKE IT GO AWAY. Calling them 'controlled substances' is a patent falsehood, ad the DEA does NOT control 'controlled substances' in any way shape or form.

However, I do agree that self-inflicted disabilities should not be collectable. If you destroy your body through your own stupidity, it's not right to expect others to foot the bill.

Well the Mexican government hasn't asked for our help.

No, the Mexican government has not asked for our help... just for alot of our money to "fight" the unsuccessful and deadly war on drugs.

On the bright side, over 47,000 Mexican dead and not one American... except for Border Patrolman Brian Terry, oh, and those two other agents in Mexico, oh, and that couple that went down to build houses for the Mexican poor, oh, and that Arizona rancher and his dog on his own property... well, I guess it's not just a Mexican problem anymore. (Sar.)

Sammy, anyone going into another country does so at their own risk, especially one where there is violence. It has never been proven that "Arizona rancher" was killed by anyone from Mexico.

But it was proven that the Border Patrol agent patroling the border in California was killed by an illegal carrying drugs & a gun a couple years ago. It was big news in SoCal

lolllllll

I'd take that bet! I'm a dam proud AMERICAN with Spanish decent & if you're so dam proud then go down there a fix the problem.

Cobra- I like the way you read meaning into that. are you a little self-conscience about your drug dealing brethren? My comment was more to the fact that those murdering drug lords need to pick up the pace killing each other. unless that is what bothered you? does that hit a little close to home? maybe you're just another crack peddling POS, how should I know. What I do want to know is what triggered the gay love dream? 30 minutes alone with me (and a bottle of wine?). No thanks, I have no desire for a homo Latin lover. By the way there's no law against being gay, it's just nasty to most of us. Good luck in your hunt for a man.

Too bad it isn't just drug lords killing drug lords. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can be terminal. And bullets fired in Matamoros don't respect the border and drop right there. We have a few in the walls of UTB. And of course there was the jet skier on Falcon Lake a Texas state park on the border. I personally feel sorry for the people who used to make a living from tourists. I'm not putting my life on the line to save $5 on omeprazole.

yes, the moved to drugs, but not after suffering huge loss in money and power.

Jan, history has proved that when you legalize a product and the means of manufacture and distribution of that product the incentive for criminal activity greatly decreases.

When prohibition was lifted the booze runners did wilt away. Some became legitimate, but most of them moved on to other illegal activities because of the monetary reward. Criminals will always find criminal activity to engage in. When our government creates criminal opportunity for arbitrary reasons(why pot, but not cigarettes?) then it is complicit in the violence.

Why do people assume we think it will stop the killing? I think loosing over half their cash flow would only stop the recruitment bonuses. Good enough.

agree... no more credit cards for drug lords

They're not much into credit, they use the prepaid cards.

Does the mafia still supply alcohol? No, they don't.

There isn't a war over alcohol but there was during alcohol prohibition. Look it up Fuevos. Legalization is the answer. Help people with drug problems don't throw them in jail.

No they don't, you're right. So, you'd legalize weed, heroine, cocaine, meth, and whatever other drugs there are? You make them all legal, someone is going to make a heroine-cocaine hybrid or something that'll be illegal and it'll all start back up again. There is always going to be something illegal for these guys to do.

A heroine-cocaine hybrid? Haha they just push drugs, they aren't scientists.

nah, if you legalize controlled substances, most likely the government will be involved in dispensing it. Or if not, there will be so many people involved in manufacturing and distribution that control through violence will not be possible. For example, since alcohol is now legal, you don't see the Capone gang in business anymore.

I suggest the real reasons for violence involve many facets: poor economy, lack of education and hope, government corruption just to name a few. I think the single best step the government could take towards rectifying this problem is to simply make murder legal. Then it could be taxed and regulated.

To me the objective of legalization is to reduce the prison population and get cheap renueable hempseed oil for fuel. Any tax revenue or reduction in violence is a bonus.

These killings are not about the drugs the Cartel don't care about the people that use it. It's all about money and the power that comes with it.

If you legalise the drugs then that just allows the Cartels to become legitimate businesses and they can sell directly to the Governments and Pharmacists increasing their profits many times and turning them into some of the 1% that control everything.

raddave the mafia now supplies drugs and a host of other things. Criminals go where the money is and there aren't any rules. They won't become nice white collar drug salesmen. Beside knowing Mexico you legalize it and all the money will go into the hands of the same rich people in Monterrey and Mexico city who control the oil money. So they can buy more condos on the gulf coast of Texas and their bratty kids can come here and treat everybody like servants and show utter disrespect of our laws.