One Think, One Speak

Kind of like the Borg.

.

look at the mentality of the North Korean ruling class, and you will understand why there can never be a dialog with them, they are a military dictatorship, based on a hereditary family of rulers, who want only food stuffs given to them to continue to feed their military and let the population go hungry, a very dangerous combination.

Certainly reminds me of the movie 1984. The state says I'm holding up 5 fingers...how many fingers am I holding up? ...answer correctly and convincingly or else!

The South Korea-based Daily NK newspaper said authorities have held “criticism sessions” for those who “transgressed” during organized weeping in the wake of the dictator’s death

Organized weeping!?! You have got to be kidding! Incredible! Is it right to assume the entire country had an "appropriate" level of grief to be able to cry on cue? (With sincerity no less.....)

Yeah that's reason enough to pinch yourself so shed a tear!

COME ON HOW CAN THIS CRAP STILL BE HAPPENING IN THIS DAY AND AGE?

What does it take mass death to give a @#$%!

WE FAIL AS A SPECIES!

willowbrook,

It's a crime against the state in North Korea not to grieve upon the death of a leader. You will grieve or we will give you something to grieve about! That's their view of things, I guess. I don't know what they do with the ones who were laughing. Shoot them, I suppose.

Are there still any N. Korean fans out there...?

this is crazy man!! i mean really crazy..how can any one do like dat..

Why am I not surprised? China did the same sort of thing during the Cultural Revolution. They would have rallies where people were required to express emotion then everyone would leave, afraid even to look each other in the face lest their real feelings show.

Grieve in public, party and celebrate in private. sounds good to me!!

I am an old intelligence weenie who was, in the late 1960's, a senior North Korean intelligence analyst for the Far Eastern Watch Center. I know it is diffucult to see things from someone else's perspective but it is always a good thing when you can do it.

1) Having paid organized mourners at funerals is an ancient custom in the Far East. Professional mourners, also called moirologists, are compensated to lament or deliver a eulogy. Mentioned in the Bible, the occupation is widely invoked in literature, from the Ugaritic epics of early centuries BC to modern poetry. Held in high esteem in some cultures and times, the practice was vilified in others. Many governments have discouraged the practice because it has been known to bankrupt the families of a person who died.

2) Confucianism is very confusing to westerners. It is not a religion, but a code of conduct that is peculiar to the Far East. While almost no people aelf-identify as Confucians, a couple of billion people are actively influenced by its precepts --- including North Korea. The difference is that the North Korean ruling eliute have twisted and warped Confucianism to their own ends. Rén is the basis of Confucian political theory: it presupposes an autocratic ruler, exhorted to refrain from acting inhumanely towards his subjects. An inhumane ruler runs the risk of losing the "Mandate of Heaven", the right to rule. A ruler lacking such a mandate need not be obeyed. But a ruler who reigns humanely and takes care of the people is to be obeyed strictly, for the benevolence of his dominion shows that he has been mandated by heaven. Also involved is zhong --- Loyalty, which was particularly relevant because the only way for an ambitious young scholar to make his way in the Confucian world was to enter a ruler's civil service. Loyalty was often subverted by autocratic regimes. Confucius had advocated a sensitivity to the realpolitik of the class relations in his time; he did not propose that "might makes right", but that a superior who had received the "Mandate of Heaven" should be obeyed because of his moral rectitude.

The bottom line is that regimes such as the Kim dynasty make a great deal of sense if you frame it in a Confucian model from centuries ago. One signs on to even brutal and repressive regimes because one is loyal first to one's spouse, then to one's country and then to one's friends.

Sometimes I wonder whether the most f-up country in the world is N.Korea or one of those eternally restless African countries like Congo, where hundreds of thousands are killed or raped every year... welcome to the 21st f-king century, where humans still act like animals while the rest of the world just stares at the TV screens...

Take the time to specify what context slurs are being used in.

Haha. Little-known sub-clause to rule #5?

Thanks for the insight, Chris-749391. Interesting stuff, and you're right, the context in which we frame our observations often (if not always) influence our opinions of those observations.

"COME ON HOW CAN THIS CRAP STILL BE HAPPENING IN THIS DAY AND AGE?"

It can and does happen because people like Steven Hawking and other prominent atheist "thinkers" legitimize an atheistic state mentality as though it were somehow a "logical" extension of their "scientific" reasoning. Such attitudes lead directly to a worldview that makes the human beings of this Earthly habitation nothing more than property of the state with the explicit approval of the "scientific" community

rather than creatures made in the image and likeness of God.

Steven Hawking and his ilk are directly responsible for the North Korean policy of sending human beings to death camps for not crying sincerely enough when a man-butcher dies a natural death.

John-3078515 . Bit of a stretch don't ya think.

xvet

John-3078515, you are absolutely correct! You sound like an educated "thinker!" Excellent analysis!

I don't know what a kadiddlehopper is but I do know an idiot when I read one. John-3078515 a 'thinker!?' I think not.

John, be serious you have never herd of Clem Kadiddlehopper? that puts you at a very young age, maybe you can ask your mom. as for the post! John-3078515 stands correct, maybe not without prejudice but he is thinking! your instant blast is a indication that you gave his post no thought at all, the sign of a good socialist. devoid of thought and dependant on others to do their thinking for them. a socialist without a state (state order) is nothing. its a person (individual) versus the people (masses) one does his own thinking the other is manipulated. one seeks their own destiny while the other depends on the community and follows the agenda/mandate. to be a socialist ruler is to be a manipulator,

Ok John maybe your mom is to young, I forget how many years have gone by, Clem Kadiddlehopper was a carecter in a TV variety show in the late 50's and early 60's the show was the Red Skelton show, Its from a time when Hollywood was in the market to provide entertainment instead of smut. Clean funny and family orientated, may God bless.

"Buy your Chevrolet in the USA, America's the greatest land of all" . . . etc. etc. Who remembers The Dinah Shore Show?

D Buck . . . your post sent my mind reeling back in time . . . eeks! lol

The situation seems almost inconceiveable - but is the entire North Korean nation suffering from a weird almalgamation of "Stockholm Syndrome"?

I just wrote a long post about how crazy you old heads are for trying to blame Steven Hawking for socialism...but then i thought about how stupid you are and deleted it because you wouldn't understand it and I don't deal with idiots.

Just know that the smarter one's of us who are still here are either desperately trying to save a country of selfish morons (to no avail) or are trying to build capital without exploiting others (trust me it's possible) in an attempt to get the F out. And go ahead, tell me good riddance and how un-American I am, but all in all you don't know me. You don't know the years I've spent learning about governmental systems and philosophies over the ages, you don't know your hand from your ass, and you don't know what it is to be a patriot. How do you think the first "Americans" got here? They left a BS system that didn't give a sh-t if they stayed or left.

smarts is not a part of the religious right---religion is the reason for the u s---the right to live without religious intrusion

@Chris

Unfortunately I don't get to say this often on this forum but, that was a great post.

This goes above and beyond mind boggling.

When "pops" died, there were many, many comments on these articles dripping with sarcasm and jokes about the penalties for not crying, not displaying enough grief, how phony the expressions, etc.

Looks like it was actually gospel...NK ala UN-style.

We've gone from ILling to UNforgiving, UNrelenting, UNmerciful and UN and UN and UN. The UNdictator. May his reign be very shortlived and a real human being to care for this country and it's citizens be put into place.

Except their deity is the latest Kim.

None of the major religions have anything to do with it. They are being forced to "idolize" their leader. It doesn't say they actually worship him.

Have you ever seen one of their labor camps? I doubt it is much better than hell. In fact, it sounds like the entire country is not much better than hell. Unless you think being starved to death, oppressed, and having every move fully controlled by the government-even your EMOTIONS-heaven. The North Koreans give you no choice. At least God gives you a choice. If you have said repeatedly that you want nothing to do with God for your entire life, you can hardly expect him to take you with him to heaven. He is only respecting your choice for your entire life and leaving you for enternity where there is no God. That's what hell is, a place with no God.

@ riverboy

garbage

A Military Cult run amok. I can't help but think that when all those military folks were all together with the Inglorious Bast....I mean Leader that that would have been an absolutely perfect time for the 4000lb tungsten rod to be deployed....whoops....looks like a meteor happened to hit at just the right time and the right place. But sadly, No.

Well, for one thing, I don't think the coffee there is very good.

Who needs freedom, anyway?

I've always, and continue to, feel bad for the N. Korean people. Live free or die trying, maybe in the next life you'll be lucky enough to not be born there.

The quality of sawdust in North Korean bread has waned considerably in the last ten years.

Sorry, but the whole 'organized crying' thing is a little too weird for me

You certainly have a point. I was always told there are three things not to discuss in open company to avoid conflict, Money, religion and politics. Without those three things, no conflict. What a beautiful existence, right? Here in the U.S. we're just taught to only discuss those things with people who will agree with us. Where's the fun in that. I happen to like conflict.

Can you speak,

I agree to disagree with you. We can do that in the U.S. In N. Korea disagree = disappear.

I can see this kind of thing happening here in the USA before too much longer. Give us another 20 years, once we're completely broke and officially a third-world has-been run by religious extremists.

Word has it that the Elderly Women's Hysteria Brigade #17 was highly rewarded for their "heroic and copious tears" So the news is not all bad.

Toasty- Sorry but they haven't been using sawdust in their bread for over 2 years. It's now "light soil and unsorted offal". I hear a touch of honey helps.

Udunno,

I think you forgot how many people own firearms in the U.S.

I think we need to go over there and kill the entire army and set all these poor people free.

They all live in total fear and that is no way to live.

mike, our politicial leaders haven't let our military fight to win a war unrestrained since WWII. It won't happen.

no obesity either----------------when you are on 800 calorie allotment per day

@MBinCoeur - Nothing is ever free; you always pay, one way or another.

MBinCoeur: No change. No fun. No future. No life. No individualism. That's whats wrong with N. Korea.

UDunnoBro -

I can see this kind of thing happening here in the USA before too much longer.

We already have our own version of it. It's called Politically Correct.

I routinely speak out against the invasion of Iraq and the misbehavior of the U.S. military, against women who give their 6-week old babies to strangers to raise, and against homosexual pedophilia.

Those are all un-PC, and I have received multiple death threats from the good folks posting at Newsvine, not to mention other vile threats and wishes, such as the hope I'll be raped for my opinion. Even when I don't receive these bombs in my Inbox, I get slanderous responses that imply, for example, that I think heterosexual pedophilia is fine, in an effort to silence me.

It's just a matter of degree.

Jerri, you complaining about no longer being "allowed" to insult other ethnic groups, races, religions..and then comparing it to North Korea.is one of the things that is wrong with this country. It's a far cry from being sent to a labor camp for refusing to mourn a despot. Hate speech isn't allowed in other civilized countries either...and just because I'm white, don't think you can whisper "what you really think" to me because I will tell you off...

Got a baby in day care, lady?

Or does it just upset you that I speak out against men raping little boys?

Jerri 1, I suppose that you could remind lemur lady that her, "not being allowed," statement is censorship! However, as another one of the sheep with the PC Disease, she will not acknowledge the truth because it upsets her flawed belief system.

Some of what you said is accurate and some, maybe not so accurate, however, I believe that you have every right to say it and that we need the opposing point of view.

Those with the PC Disease, do not. They can not deal with reality and therefore must stifle your forays into the land of opinions other than theirs.

I've been unpopular before, and I will be unpopular again. However, I will not be quiet.

jerri-1 your right on with comment #4-16, people wont see the truth as long as it suits their view.

jerri-1-The difference between shocking yourself with a wall socket and being struck by lightning is "just a matter of degree".

People are speaking their minds today! that's great but if things keep going the way they are we can wind up in counselling or jail if we are not PC, to use your freedom of speech could get you in trouble (hate crime) maybe cost you other rights because you now have a record, look around you. we have all kinds of factions telling us how to behave, and what we can and can't say, we are being muzzled. our constitution is being rearranged to serve minority interest, people are being indoctrinated/assimilated into being PC. and these insulting little brainwashed individuals that puff up when you speak your mind get very testy but their day will come when they to will be politically incorrect.

In a nut shell if they cant thrive within our system, change the system, make the system minority friendly, even if that means controling the majority to improve on the minority.( I'm not referring to racial minorities ).

Those are all un-PC, and I have received multiple death threats from the good folks posting at Newsvine, not to mention other vile threats and wishes, such as the hope I'll be raped for my opinion.

That's quite different from the situation in North Korea where the GOVERNMENT is punishing those people. The First Amendment protects you from attempts by the government to punish you for your speech. It does not protect you from the reprehensible actions of others.

@Barry-NJ if you put it out there, you may deserve to get it back depending on what was posted.

North Korea doesn't export rice--they have just enough to fatten the rulers while letting normal people starve.

Well, most part of the world is no longer ruled by a complete dictatorship like NK so it is not something that you can witness often. But in the old days when a king/lord died, everyone subjected must cry, grievance for weeks (no wedding, private celebration, etc). It might be a stretch; but I can almost imagine this kind of mistreatment to his people in Iraq if Sadam is still in power instead of "over-throne" by the US. But no, I am not advocating the war on Iraq; but rather only the tyranny/dictators must be eliminated alone (coup, assassination, etc).

You could make a bundle selling stale crackers... I don't think they are allowed to be "picky" about their food either...

What food? Stale crackers would be a luxury.

Guess again. NK is "demanding" that food aid be rice and corn instead of the prepared foods we want to send them. They like the pass off foreign food aid as domestic crops. Prepared food would LOOK like foreign aid.

I think he meant that the onions would be to help people cry to avoid going to prison. Then they would be taken away to be eaten by the fat rulers. That would just be too much of a luxury.

Onions would be considered a delicacy. Salt would be eaten like caviar. Any food item would be eaten with zeal.

I'd cry, really hard because I lived in North F-ing Korea.

Are you having trouble with 0, who gets plenty of attention and for the wrong things, all of the White 0 clones, who get plenty of attention for their ridicules BS spewing, or Ron Paul, the only person running who is capable of doing the job, and who is being ignored almost completely by the media; I'm not surprised, and by the Republicans and the Republicrats, because they fear their land of insider trading and unconstitutional laws would finally end; is that your problem?

The way our government is setup, you can put anyone in the Oval office and everything will be business as usual. The only different are the decoration in the White House, the potential scandals (if discovered), and replacement of many top government positions by the new president as an appreciation for helping his campaign.

Unecessary and tacky...

Of course it's unnecessary, everyone is too starved to do anything if they had any available. And tacky. Hum! Is that like kinky?

Disgusting thought, the government demands you procreate or you will be re-educated! But the re-education process is in a prison camp working 22 hrs/day w/o food and only pictures of food. I'm sure the thought of sex is out when one is envisioning hot slabs of beef in their head. I might think about eating out, but not in the sexual context.

If the North Korean people want to put an end to their suffering, it has to come from them. Interventionist policy has failed time and time again, yet, we continue to utilize it.

Johnling: Excellent point. I am suffering from save the downtrodden, weak and poor. I guess that makes me another wannabe modern day Jesus.

I have no problem with you, personally, wanting to help the weak and poor, even the North Koreans. It is admirable to want to help your fellow man. The problem I have is the implication that the UN, or the United States, should intervene on behalf of the North Korean citizens.

Johnling: Apparently, I do not understand what the United Nations was supposed to stand for.....

Well, we can look at the most recent set of uprisings in the Arab Spring. Even though those governments were oppressive and corrupt, the UN, Nato, the US did not start those uprisings nor did they assassinate those despots, but there was support from those organizations for the people. This is my point, the people have to decide when enough is enough, or even if they want a change. I can understand your frustration with the UN, though.

The UN should do something about North Korea. The US shouldn't invade them unless the UN says so.

thumbs up. I am willing to help the N. Korean's even if it cost me my life. I just can't help but feel their lack of weaponry keeps them from an uprising. I personally wouldn't wish to throw my body up against a bullet without being equally armed.

Well, your desire to help is commendable. Unfortunately, bodies in front of bullets, or tanks, may be what it takes. Revolutions are usually pretty messy. If it reaches that point, I could see a UN involvement. Until then, the isolation of the current regime from the world stage, is about as far as we should go.

Actually, I think we (the US) should explain to China that they need to clean up that mess in their back yard. China is the only ones that have any influence over North Korea and if China is so much into stability in the region and doesn't like us meddling in the area, it would be in China's best interest to take care of this matter. China is living next door to this nuclear idiot and could be flooded with millions of refugees if they don't intervene and clean this mess up.

Fed Up- A monkey in a suit and tie holding an automatic...Boy if that don't say America, nothin' does!

hey Fed up, trick question--- the UN doesnt stand for anything.

peanutGalleryTheater: I respectfully disagree..... They stand for their own personal gains to power! Ha! I missed seeing you flyin' through the forum.... Good to see ya! :D)

They have a 1 million standing Army that does get fed. It was a Cease Fire in 1953, the war never ended.

I think I read that North Korea has the fourth largest army in the world. (It's been a while, but that's what I remember.) And yes, they do feed the army. That's why their people join--for the food. It was just a few years ago, during another year of famine, that it was documented that they were digging up their dead; and Granny was lunch. Sad but true.

With this mindset, it's not a far leap to consider that people are being jailed for not crying enough. I've always referred to it as an act of desperation.

The upside is that even though Kim Jong Il is dead, he was a fat critter. He might be barbecue by the end of the week. Now wouldn't that be justice?

I've always wondered how in the world the U.S. has invaded so many countries for so many erroneous reasons and just left these despots alone. Besides the obvious China, it isn't invincible by any means. We should at the very least do massive air drops of food in the country side where the military is sparse. Clandestine food drops by night would certainly be of some benefit.

I also can't imagine that the North Korean military is sincere in it's belief that they are really defending their country. Defense of what? The right to starve and freeze? I'd imagine that more than a few would defect in a N.Y. minute given the first sign of an opportunity to throw their hands up and surrender.

I've always wondered how in the world the U.S. has invaded so many countries for so many erroneous reasons and just left these despots alone. Besides the obvious China, it isn't invincible by any means. We should at the very least do massive air drops of food in the country side where the military is sparse. Clandestine food drops by night would certainly be of some benefit.

I also can't imagine that the North Korean military is sincere in it's belief that they are really defending their country. Defense of what? The right to starve and freeze? I'd imagine that more than a few would defect in a N.Y. minute given the first sign of an opportunity to throw their hands up and surrender.

They had to eat the toilet paper.

It's all they know and the army's mean.

They're either too busy trying to find food or playing along to protect their govt rations. Thats why foreign food aid has to go through the govt. Otherwise people might figure out that they can overthrow the govt cuz their food is actually coming from somewhere else.

Again, They have a 1 million standing Army that does get fed. The Army comes from families that have served in the Army (hereditary) and they are real loyal.

An unarmed malnurished nation of citizens can not rise up.

Consider this...they only know what the govt leaders tell them. They have no idea what the real world is like.

It was a Cease Fire in 1953, the war never ended.

However, an armed one can.

And as a side note, that is why our recent governments are trying everything to disarm Americans.

"what is clear is that this shows how an entire nation can succumb to a kind of mass insanity."

Yes, it does. That is exactly what the PC Disease has done to America. The PC Disease has created a national censorship without using the word, censorship. It has taken away a persons right to free speech and free thought.

AJV ... how has "PC Disease" cost you "free speech and free thought" (in the context of the First Amendment)?

The people of NK have no power politically, and not enough numbers to accomplish anything on their own. The NK government is backed by China, and any uprisings will be quashed by Chinese troops, who number in the millions. Been there, done that, remember? Unless and until China changes it's governmental structure, NK will remain as it is.

The people of North Korea have no means to organize. Travel is controlled, access to computers and cell phones is limited and government spies are in every neighborhood. How would you inspire and coordinate a revolt?

Noble china??? Good luck with that one.

"Be glad for the freedoms we enjoy- life certainly could be worse- much, much worse!!!"

It is exactly that sentiment that has lead every other fallen free people to NK.

True religion sounds a little odd. Barry, Stay on topic.

Well now, hold on MB, I wanna hear what Barry has to say....

Ummm, Barry...aka Mr. Astrophysicist........could you please enlighten us as to exactly what the "right" questions and answers are? I mean, I have my own opinions on the matter, of course, and I've heard everyone else's........I figure I'd give you a chance to share your version with us all. Could you please?

True Religion... it's a brand of jeans. very expensive.

JJA

I guess we'll soon find out for sure.

WeB you be right