Iran with their collection of antique outdated and decrepit military equipment not to mention their mini sub and speed boat fleet sure seems to think they can intimidate their neighbors? How much more if they develop an atomic bomb.

The difference is that these guys (the iranians) will detonate it.

This could explain why many other Arab Countries are opposed to Iran obtaining nuclear capability. The men who planted the bomb on the scientist car for obvious reasons were Arabs. Could Saudi Arabia or some other Arab Country be behind the death of this scientist?

It is a valid assumption. Saudi Arabia has a very robust and vast, counter terrorist program. Sitting that close to Iran necessitates that it keeps a very close eye on their wacky Persian neighbor. At this point, anyone can speculate who initiated the attack on Iran's Nuke scientist but S.A. would be a very valid bet! Also, with Iran touting its ability and threatening the closure of the Straight of Hormuz, they will in effect cut their own throats by denying THEMSELVES products THEY need to maintain their country with food and energy products. If it comes to conflict there, the Iranians may, and probably will sink a ship or two, and possibly damage a U.S. warship, but they will be toast in a matter of days or weeks. I don't understand why, but they act just like my neighbors Chihuahua who somehow thinks he's a Great Dane.

And in the same analogy, if that same Chihuahua is injured by your dog or another neighbors dog, it is THEIR fault............same thinking as Iran seems to have...........it is everyone else's fault because THEY are the good guys only wanting a bit of "energy"

Iran with their collection of antique outdated and decrepit military equipment not to mention their mini sub and speed boat fleet sure seems to think they can intimidate their neighbors? How much more if they develop an atomic bomb.

The Iranians have updated much of their conventional warfare armament. They actually have two navies! The traditional navy, the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy ( IRIN ) comprised of much older ships and frigates patrolling its borders and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corp Navy ( IRGCN ). The latter was initiated by Iran's former leader Ayatollah Kohmeini after the Iranian Revolution because he didn't trust the IRIN naval commanders. The jokers we see with the speed boats are IRGCN and those lads will sink shipping. They are the wild card in all of this. A study by American Naval strategists was run using just the threat of an attack by the IRGNC and the outcome wasn't good for U.S. Naval forces. The IRGNC "Tests" our naval commanders in the region every time they approach our ships with their speed boats. I am wondering just how close we will allow them to approach without firing warning shots?

Ok let me get this straight.....Lets go ahead and let a country who has openly declared that they will obliterate Israel, attack all American interests abroad, support terror groups like Hezbollah and Al Qaeda develop nuclear weapons????

The difference IRESPOND is that Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons pointed at each other - not us, our interests or our allies.

"...has warned the country's Arab neighbors..."

How to make friends and influence people - as they set themselves up for the thirty minute war. The only headache will be getting to the bottom of their ant farm.

I am not sure why the US is so worried about the Iranians having bombs.

To begin with, IRespond, Iran would represent one more nuclear power in the world, which incrementally increases the danger that weapons-grade, nuclear material, or even a bomb, will fall into the hands of of somebody who will use it.

As to your other "points":

Don't tell me that India and Pakistan are better off than Iran.

Well, they are. Both have democratically elected governments, and the U.S. maintains diplomatic relations with both countries. Neither has ever issued death edicts against citizens of other countries for religious crimes, as Iran did against Salman Rushdie.

We are not better off than them, and we also are a theocratic nation.

That is just pure and utter bull sh*t, sport. While there are certainly politicians who are motivated by religion, religious leaders do not rule in this country, which is the true meaning of the word, "theocracy".

How do you think the USA would have responded if some unknown foreign entity stuck a bomb inside Einstein's vehicle back in the early 1940s? Do you think we would have just said "whoever you are, you better not do that again!" and have done nothing?

Why is it, when we retaliate that is right, and good and just. But when other countries retaliate for similar offenses - well then, theyre just terrorists, barbarians, and trouble makers? Why do we expect all other countries to cower in a corner and let us stomp all across their lands?

Regardless of the end results, the methodology is wrong. Are we now acting like terrorists?

StrengthInNumbers

So are you saying that you have proof that we were behind the bombing? You certainly seem to feel we were. You must have proof since you're so convinced. No? Wow. Seriously though, the only proof we need that Iran has ill intentions with their bomb is how hard they lie about wanting to have one at all. And to your specific point about retaliation: we haven't used more than harsh language in response to the attempt to implicate us in the assassination of the Saudi ambassador a few months ago. Under your assumptions we should have already reduced Iran to anarchy. But it's ok. It's rather obvious you hate the country that gives you the freedom to have and voice those opinions. The rest of us will still defend that.

@ IRESPOND

That's why Iran isn't going to stop it's nuclear program. Once they have them, we're not gonna do a damn thing. Hell, we'll probably make friends with them and start sending them millions each month like Pakistan.

You cannot give a nuclear weapon to a country where people think the path to heaven is to martyr themselves by killing their perceived enemies and dying in the process. These people are willing to kill their entire population if they think they are doing what Allah wants them to do. There is no mutually assured destruction element with these people to keep them from using the weapons. They do not care if they die.

"You cannot give" ?

Who is giving?

Instead of posting a statement, I would like to ask a question. Is it not possible to get the the worlds major powers to agree that as soon as Iran detonates a nuclear test that there will be a unified effort by these countries to militarily squash them? Is it to far fetched to think that US, Russia, China, India,etc. would agree too a plan like this? After all Iran says it needs atomically produced energy. Regardless of the ample supply of cheap crude.

The biggest problem the US has with Iran is Iran wants to deal with Oil with Euros instead of American dollars. Simple and foremost. The US drums up all these other excuses, bull S$%T, etc and harasses Iran to get them to act so they can lower the boom on Iran. Beside, Halliburton is itching to go to war with Iran so they can get back on the federal tit as they were in Iraq.

1 problem with Iran. It has China and Russia at their back. it wont be just a regular war. it will be WWIII

I'm not sure if threatening anyone is such a good idea. What's with this country? Also, if you make threats to The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, you've basically just made a threat to the US. I hate to say it so bluntly, but we're their military. And why not? We've have a relationship with SA for decades. No there is a country with something to fight for in their possession. As a side note, I don't ever want to go back there. There are these lizards about 1-2 feet long, that aren't afraid of a Hummer. They are the Honey Badger of the middle east.

Iran is full of bluster. The equivalent of a bad poker player who always bluffs. Call their bet. Their country is ready to crumble. If they are stupid enough to try and close the Strait, send their Navy to the bottom of the sea.

@dman:

That is just pure and utter bull sh*t, sport. While there are certainly politicians who are motivated by religion, religious leaders do not rule in this country, which is the true meaning of the word, "theocracy".

Oh Sure! That is why all the "Presidential hopefuls"are not basing their winnings in South Carolina on Religion. PLEASE WAKE UP FROM YOUR DREAM

YOU -the Republicans- are electing your next representative based on social issues and religion. Never mind that they are totally inept in solving the important issues of this country. They are fighting like dogs and cats for the "Evangelical" vote. Now, who is writing BS?

@ dman:

To begin with, IRespond, Iran would represent one more nuclear power in the world, which incrementally increases the danger that weapons-grade, nuclear material, or even a bomb, will fall into the hands of of somebody who will use it.

RESPECTFULLY disagree with you here. The Iranians know that pushing the button once they get their bomb would be the VERY LAST thing they do. The country would be leveled in ten seconds flat.

They're insane but not stupid. But then again, perhaps they are insane AND stupid.

Well, they are. Both have democratically elected governments, and the U.S. maintains diplomatic relations with both countries. Neither has ever issued death edicts against citizens of other countries for religious crimes, as Iran did against Salman Rushdie.

And Pakistan is a failed Islamic state, dman. It's leader is one hair-width's away from being assassinated. One foot in the grave, the other on an oil slick. NOT TO MENTION, the country is being overrun by the Taliban and other Islamofascist whack jobs. And India is not going to put up with their krap for much longer. So THAT point is moot.

@NC Thornton,

To say that the men who assassinated the scientist were obviously Arabs is foolish. They were most likely Iranians. Iranians are NOT Arabs, they are Farsi --- Persians. You are correct that many other Arab countries have little use for Iranians because, not only are they not Araba, but they are Shiites. Only two countries are predominantly Shiite --- Iran and Iraq --- the rest are mostly Sunni. Saudi Arabia's ruling elite arer all Wahabi --- a far right fundamentalist sect that considers everyone but themselves as apostate.

The oil producing countries on the Gulf can get at least some of their oil out via pipelines if the Straits of Hormuz is closed. And the US is not dependent on a single drop of Middle East oil. We only buy oil from sources other than Canada and Mexico in order for the big oil corporations to scam both the taxpayers by selling them oil that cost $18 a barrel to produce at Saudi prices.

I doubt that Saudi Arabia sees it in the same class as Isreal when it comes to nuclear wespons. Isreal has over 100 nuclear warheads. All were built with Americans plans and even a substantial amount of original American parts obtained through the extremely extensive Israeli spy network that operates within both the Jewish and fundamentalist Christian communities here. We even gave Israel tracking data so they could hijack the three shiploads of yellowcake that kick started their nuclear program and kept the lid on the numerous illegal cooperations between Israel and Apartheid South Africa that kept Apartheid going for years. Israel is a nuclear-armed country with professes bno restrictions on its use of nukes on its neighbors and a supporter genocide. I doubt that Saudis see themselves that way.

@A Yank. Now I have to wonder why and by whom my comment was deleted. Thanks for your support on the Popular Amendment Movement.

I have been a member of Newsvine since 2008 and have never had a comment deleted..until today. Censorship at its finest.

IRESPOND-2315268 "I am not sure why the US is so worried about the Iranians having bombs....Let them have a bomb."

The countries that have the 'bomb' are rational and have enough sense not to try to use them first.

The religious leaders of Iran demonstrated during the Iran/Iraq conflict of the 1980s that they would have no problem sacrificing their people for political gain, having sent tens of thousands of young, unequipped youths to their deaths against Iraqi tanks, machine guns and poison gas.

Just a few bombs could devastate Israel's population, and considering Iran's stated intention to 'wipe the Zionists from the face of the Earth', the consequences of letting Iran get the bomb are of great concern to everyone.

If the sanctions don't work, and fairly quickly, Israel will attack as a matter of self-survival.

PS - Since Iran is Persian, not Arab, the Arabs would welcome eliminating Iran's plans for a Shiite 'Caliphate' controlling all of Islam.

It can happen to anyone...:( Just jump back on the horse.

ruling with an iron fist will get you no where. let's kill everyone else but don't come here and kill us. read all of this and tell me why most of the world hates us. and we wonder why our kids bully in school and kill

Personally I still think it was a government assassination aimed at a dissenting Scientist who wouldn't do as the Ayatollah wished and as a warning to other Scientists to co-operate or else. I guess Sharia Law doesn't allow freedom of moral choice to his minions.

I have noticed that there has been little said about the pursuit of the perpetrators of this incident, this is the foundation of my belief. Typical Gestapo and KGB tactics are being used in countries such as Iran, Syria and (until recently) Libya these days, just look to the headlines and bylines in the news as evidence of this.

If they get a nuke. they will not need to use it. Look at the power they have over us already “We will close the Straights” 2 hours later our fuel cost go up .20 a gallon “They laugh”! Then our ships and solders are on the move costing us millions “They laugh” We all start go in panic mode “They laugh”! They say “We are not building a nuke” We spend billions trying to prove they are “They laugh”!
We are no more then Iran's puppet, They pull a little string and we start dancing “They laugh”! EVER DAY THEY COST US MILLIONS WITH JUST WORDS!!!!! What would we do if they could back them up??????

Hello folks, our country is broke and weary of war. The elite are ratcheting up the rhetoric and the warmonger sheeple are getting sucked in to the propaganda. Let’s take an objective look at the Iran situation. Ask yourself, what would happen if Iran attacked an oil refinery in the US? Of course we would go into Iran and bomb their country. Well, we recently bombed an Iranian oil refinery and they didn’t retaliate. We issued sanctions on their oil and export industries and they didn’t retaliate. Why is that?

While appearing vulnerable they took control of the most sophisticated drone on the planet downloaded and deciphered the encrypted information and have our Military intelligence (I know it’s an oxymoron) people worried that top secret information has been compromised.

Do you believe that the Iranian’s have the capability to bring down a state of the art drone and have it land where they want it to and down load and decipher complex encrypted code? It appears that Iran has been getting help and lots of it from a very sophisticated source or sources. The US already declared war on Iran by issuing sanctions and covertly bombing them but they don’t dare overtly go in because it would jeopardize China’s oil flow, piss off Russia, Turkey and the local Arab countries. This would also force Iraq to support Iran. We got kicked out of Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is trying to get us to leave their country. The Middle East is kicking us out which means we are running out of staging areas and NATO support for an attack on Iran. The US tried to concoct fraudulent excuses to stir up public support to go into Iran. There was the laughable assassination ruse of the Mexican drug cartel and the more unbelievable law suit stating Iran was part of 9/11. There were also claims that Iran attacked Iraq, etc. The elite are running out of false flags. Iran is out foxing the US because they have the world divided and we can’t command an organized response. The UN Security Council voted against the US a few weeks ago. China and Russia have gone on record that if Iran is attacked they would support Iran. The world is getting fed up and bored with our Imperialism and the elite who orchestrate war.

We have been fighting urban wars of attrition for over 10 years now and we are broke, our allies are broke. We have spent close to 3 Trillion dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can’t afford another expensive protracted war a half a world away and the US citizens are sick of war. There is 85% support for Ron Paul amongst our troops because they are sick of war and he’s promised to end the wars. The lengthy wars have depleted our manpower, equipment, and our political capital.

Last week the Census Department of the Federal Government reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”. Our nation’s wealth has been exhausted by war so that we could secure profits for the banking, oil, and Military/Industrial cartels. We never saw a dime of it and never will because the 1% elite feel they have a Divine Right at our expense. You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses. They truly can’t squeeze much more from the peasantry but they will try.

Our government has been trying to get Iran to do something stupid so that we can attack them but they won’t do it. Iran isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. They haven’t done anything, aren’t weak and they aren’t bluffing. They are asserting their right as a sovereign nation and have the support of some very powerful countries. If we attack Iran, the war will be at our doorstep and then we will see how brave you who espouse war respond. When you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

America needs a complete reformulation of its foreign policies, along with considering what this administration (I'm quite certain) considers a diplomatic impossibility - we need to improve our relations with China and Russia, from a standpoint of strength - financial strength, so that the true enemies of peace on the geo energy front - N Korea and Iran can be militarily destroyed without severe global repercussions. It is also necessary to convince China that certain economic treaties need to be implemented in order to shore up their already collapsing manufacturing sector. es, their factories are failing at the rate of new restaurants here. The wealthiest people of all 3 countries have to step or be pushed aside, or there will be a world depression that will not only last longer than anyone thinks, but will, due to the concentration in control of food production, cause a global famine that will likely wipe out all developing populations, and send those who can make it here, to run house to house looking for food. It will in short, leave us wishing for the good old days of the sixties when it would all be over in just a few minutes. Rich men without morals are the worlds enemies. But to be sure, those whose minds are addled by religious extremism as they arm for the Armageddon they perceive in their insane minds must be destroyed asap.

Sounds as if Iran needs to be taken down a notch or two. But our lilly livered so called pres. does not have enough balls to attack a country that might actually fight back.

@ Jeff Moralez

Instead of posting a statement, I would like to ask a question. Is it not possible to get the the worlds major powers to agree that as soon as Iran detonates a nuclear test that there will be a unified effort by these countries to militarily squash them? Is it to far fetched to think that US, Russia, China, India,etc. would agree too a plan like this? After all Iran says it needs atomically produced energy. Regardless of the ample supply of cheap crude.

No, it's NOT possible, for THREE REASONS:

1. Iran is China's bytch,

2. Iraq and Pakistan are now IRAN'S bytches, and

3. The Ruskies are the johns who will pay out more of their services (i.e. money, weapons, and their OWN oil reserves) to keep the brothel running.

Won't happen. That simple.

There are Americans in our country who see the problem in its origination: US dependency on foreign oil. Now of course, the Drill, Baby, Drill crowd wants no possible alternative energy source to succeed unless it's in some tiny, remote way connected to US Big Energy. So..who really is creating the mess in the Middle East?

Let's imagine that a wonderful, new abundant and limitless alternative to fossil fuel was allowed to become our major source of energy. Would a problem still exist for the US then? You bet not. Yet, US Big Energy does all it can to keep Americans addicted and hooked on their opiate fossil fuels. Who should we blame if not ourselves?

The only way to EVER deal with bullies is to call their bluff. Starve them out and tell them to shove their oil where the sun doesn't shine. But, oh no. That will never happen. Not when Drill, Baby, Drill some lunkheaded US Big Energy Bully Bois are calling all the shots for the rest of the country.

These are the same Aholes who won't be happy until every state has a network of drilling rigs polluting our air and water or causing minor earthquakes with their pound, pound, pounding into bedrock of our planet. These are the same Aholes who don't really care about human life in this country so long as they get what THEY want: huge Big Energy profits. That's ALL they care about. When it comes down to them or us, it's them rolling in wads of obscene moolah and your backyards exploding black gold or some other fossil fuel eruption that gags the lungs and dulls our brains. THIS is what the Big Energy Bully Bois have been after for ages: total control over the entire country. Don't believe it? Total the trillions we've handed over in taxes for subsidies for these Aholes to find oil anywhere they can...like oil sniffing dogs.

For ALL you who don't believe Iran is a threat with NUKES, look up 12th Inman, Shia Mahdi. The Iranians will sacrifice their country and the entire ME gladly to get the 12 Inman to come out of da well. They blow up their children with plastic keys to heaven made in Japan, for goodness sakes. LOL!

StrengthInNumbers,

RE: your post #1.8

You do make sense and your logic is well reasoned and the facts are there for all to see if they look honestly! However, to answer a few of your questions and points you raise: First, yes we do act like, and are, in some instances, actually terrorists when we believe it is in our best interest. I would like to believe that we do not, but the facts state otherwise. As to why we think we can do this and condemn other nations for doing so, well lets just call this 'partisn patriotism', if you will. Now as to your analogy to Einstein, well we are actually OVERTLY constrained, in my opinion. Take for example, the USS COLE or the bombing of our foreign embassy in Beirut, Lebanon in 1983 or the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya. In those instances President Reagan and President Clinton respectively did NOT threaten Nuclear attack or even an invasive war. So we are restrained to some measure. Iran on the other hand is unstable and capable of using a nuclear weapon on their neighbors, especially Israel. We cannot afford to see if they would be restrained so look for more of their 'key' nuclear personnel and scientists to have life ending 'mishaps'!

I've mentioned this before but Iran does have something that many of it's neighbors do not...water.

Link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/questions/resource/index.html

Water, water, but not everywhere

Another resource of vital importance to the region is water. Egypt, Iran, and Turkey are the only countries in the region with abundant fresh water resources. Roughly two-thirds of the Arab world depend on sources outside their borders for their water supply.

Iran only has to shut off it's flow of fresh water to make the surrounding countries dry. There is little rainfall and not enough desalination. Iran is not stupid - it doesn't need to bomb a country near it, it just has to shut off the water tap.

Considering the threats Iran has been making to us and to the other Gulf countries, can you imagine the threats and brinkmanship they'd play if they had nuclear weapons?

N.C. Thornton,

Pretty funny!

All those thumbs-up you received for...(don't want to get banned)...for bad guesses. Multiple bad guesses gets lots of thumbs-up. Pretty funny.

On the one hand it says they want and have the right to do as they please, and at the same time they are threatening their neighbors for making an independent action. You can't have it both ways.

Iran - HEY LISTEN UP - is not some teenager acting out "doing as they please", they have signed the same International agreement everyone else (with some notable exceptions like N.Korea and The State of Israel) has. The agreement they signed and WE, the US, signed says they are perfectly within their rights to generate electricity from nuclear reactors. AND that includes, with the international agreement the US signed, enriching uranium to particular levels.

AND you guessed that the other nations are "independent" to do as teenagers do and act out as they please. The other nations belong to OPEC, Iran belongs to OPEC. The OPEC nations have not given over their sovereignty to OPEC but neither are they "independent" teenagers.

Iran has not made any threats to the US or other countries at all- we have been over this day after day. The US has threatened that they MUST keep the oil flowing BUT that does not mean we will lift sanctions - and we will NOT pay them for the oil either. If I had something you wanted, but you refused to pay for it (and shut off my bank account), I wouldn't be keen on giving to you. We started these worlds of aggression with Iran, not the other way around. Additionally, Iran has asked to speak to the US and other countries regarding it's nuclear program and we have NOT responded.

Link for talks: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/31/iran-proposes-nuclear-talks?INTCMP=SRCH

Why the strait would be closed: - their argument is reasonable, they will not close anything as long as the US doesn't go to war with another sovereign nation, now if we bomb them, why would they give us oil to keep doing so? We are the aggressor, again.

A senior Iranian military commander insisted that the Islamic Republic has no intention of disrupting the free flow of maritime shipping through the strategic Strait of Hormuz and the Persian Gulf.
“Iran will not overlook its territorial rights at the strategic Strait of Hormuz waterway and does not intend to impede maritime shipping in the region,” Deputy Navy Commander Rear Admiral Mahmoud Mousavi said on Sunday, IRNA reported.
“Issues concerning the use of the Strait of Hormuz are the business of its littoral states. As the country with a vast coastal area along the strategic route, Iran has a particular interest and concern in the region.”
Mousavi, who is also the spokesman for the Navy’s massive Velayat 90 wargames, warned that any effort to harm the interests of the Islamic Republic in the region will undoubtedly lead to reciprocal measures by Iran.
The commander said Iran seeks to establish sustainable security in the Strait of Hormuz.
“Maritime transportation, including the free flow of energy resources or the passage of trade ships, has been ongoing for all countries in the region without any obstruction,” he said.
Iran has warned that in case Western threats of imposing an oil embargo on the Islamic Republic take effect, it reserves the right to respond by choking the oil flow through the Strait of Hormuz, arguing that the free flow of oil must be for all or none.
The possible closure of the waterway would have serious consequences for the world economy, as it would greatly reduce crude oil, petroleum and liquefied natural gas supplies.
Iranian warships conducted military exercises during the naval maneuvers that ended on Monday in an area stretching from the east of the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Aden.

No Oil for War Engines
A senior lawmaker said Iran will not allow any oil to reach the “war engines of Iran’s enemies” through the Strait of Hormuz if its oil is subjected to sanctions.
“Iran will never allow the Strait (of Hormuz) to be used against it and for the benefit of its enemies,” Parviz Sorouri, the head of Majlis Internal Security Commission, said. Sorouri added that Iran considers the strategic waterway as a “Strait of Peace,” but would take any “fundamental measures” to ensure the security of itself and the entire region.
He went on to say that the US is currently pursuing the project of ‘Iranophobia’, as recent developments in the Middle East have led to the “divergence of regional counties from the US and a convergence with the Islamic Republic”.
Last Wednesday, Michael Mann, the spokesman for EU’s Foreign Affairs Chief Catherine Ashton, said, “The European Union is considering another set of sanctions against Iran.” He added that the decision would be taken in the next meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on January 30, 2012. The EU foreign ministers failed in their attempts to enforce an embargo on Iran’s oil exports during a December 1 meeting in Brussels. The EU’s anti-Iran move came after the United States, Britain and Canada imposed unilateral sanctions on the Islamic Republic’s energy and financial sectors over Tehran’s nuclear program. First Vice President Mohammad Reza Rahimi warned on December 27 that imposing sanctions on the country’s energy sector will prompt Tehran to prevent oil cargoes from passing through the Strait of Hormuz. “If they impose sanctions on Iran’s oil, not a drop of oil will be allowed through the Strait of Hormuz,” he warned. Navy Commander Rear Admiral Habibollah Sayyari also announced last Wednesday that the country’s naval forces can readily block the Strait of Hormuz, if necessary. The US, Israel and their allies accuse Iran of pursuing a military nuclear program and have used this allegation as a pretext to convince the UN Security Council to impose four rounds of sanctions on the Islamic Republic. Iran has refuted the allegations, arguing that as a signatory to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency, it has the right to develop and acquire nuclear technology for peaceful purposes.

Hormuz Card Kazem Jalali, a lawmaker, said if faced with a threat Iran will definitely use the defensive potential of the strategic Strait of Hormuz. Pointing to the strategic importance of the Strait of Hormuz, Jalali said Iran like all countries uses this energy conduit, but if threatened it will definitely use all its capacities to defend the country’s sovereignty. Jalali, also a member of Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Commission, emphasized that the desire to harm the Islamic Republic will have devastating consequences because given its “immense defensive potential, (Iran) will confront the aggressors”.

http://www.iran-daily.com/1390/10/13/MainPaper/4140/Page/2/Index.htm#

This is not about a game, it is about potential war. It is not about fairness, it is about winning. Go ahead and cheat any way you can America. Do what ever you have to do to put these bad guys under. I want a victory for liberal western values here, not a victory for 15th century Islamic values. America should do whatever it takes for victory against Iran. Don't be fair. What is fair for Iran, is NOT good for the world.

Is this a good time for this country to be attacking anyone right now? They haven't fixed this countries problems yet. Congress should realize this kind of stuff when they are in office, its only good country maintenance, but they want to get the president voted out and they don't care if there will be a situation arising, thats going to need the military to take action. Not real smart of congress to waste precious time like they have been. Time to get people in office that are willing to work for the country instead of their party. A straight dem. vote will fix this.

Well Gary, I hope you are logging in from your nearest Military recruiting office, along with your children - might as well enlist now, all of you who what to go to war with a country that has done nothing wrong , it's just been maligned in the US news - but it's better to enlist than wait for the DRAFT (as a poster "sandrich" said yesterday). Iran is poor, if we keep playing these games they will suspend their election - that election is very important, a moderate could be elected, right now Iran is still taking the nice route - I believe we last threatened them .... yesterday.

This is about a potential war - one that the US cannot afford. What has Iran done to us? Nothing. We let Pakistan and N. Korea have nuclear weapons, and about 20 other countries who hate us. We are not the ONLY country (along with our "allies" (we really only have one)) that can have nuclear weapons. There are bigger problems in the world right now - the global economy is going down the tubes and a war will make that much worse.

Personally, I do not want any more bloodshed - not our soldiers nor those of any other country. When did "diplomacy & peace" become four letter words?

Where's Waldo

This could explain why many other Arab Countries are opposed to Iran obtaining nuclear capability. The men who planted the bomb on the scientist car for obvious reasons were Arabs. Could Saudi Arabia or some other Arab Country be behind the death of this scientist?

It is a valid assumption. Saudi Arabia has a very robust and vast, counter terrorist program. Sitting that close to Iran necessitates that it keeps a very close eye on their wacky Persian neighbor. At this point, anyone can speculate who initiated the attack on Iran's Nuke scientist but S.A. would be a very valid bet! Also, with Iran touting its ability and threatening the closure of the Straight of Hormuz, they will in effect cut their own throats by denying THEMSELVES products THEY need to maintain their country with food and energy products. If it comes to conflict there, the Iranians may, and probably will sink a ship or two, and possibly damage a U.S. warship, but they will be toast in a matter of days or weeks. I don't understand why, but they act just like my neighbors Chihuahua who somehow thinks he's a Great Dane.

Just before the breakout of Gulf War II with Iraq, I also heard many arm chair generals say, "load up on beer, and sit back, it will be over in a few days." To which I would respond, " a few years down the road from now, remember these two words, Viet Nam". The rest is history.

Gary Root said,

I want a victory for liberal western values here,

Ha! Which western values did you have in mind Gary? War, unnecessary war, war after war like

Afghanistan
Iraq
South Ossetia
Lebanon
Gaza
Yemen
Pakistan
Libya
IRAN

You don't have to worry about "western" US lieing us into war, killing mostly innocent civlians in unnecessary wars, spreading devastation and destruction. Just what "western" values did you have in mind, Gary? How about torture? Is that one of your western values? How about imperialism? How about war crimes, Gary?

What western values are you talking about, Gary?

JONJOJON This was exactly my thought that internal forces {Republican Guard}hardliners did this and are trying to blame it on the US.. Standard red flag tactics to drum up support from the populous for what lies ahead..Senator McCarthy the commie hunter or Heinrich Himmler would be pleased with the skill they have in propaganda.. I also agree that the other Arab states are sick of Iran trying to destabilize and undermine the Middle East.. Bet the Iranians used the war games they had as a cover to plant high tech Russian mines in the shipping channel.. If we find any of them the Russian government will have some explaining to do..

Our government needs an enema because there are way too many cash grabbing politicians clogging up the works.. Reform of the business as usual is way overdue.. Lobbyists, stock options, back room deals and corporate control has become blatant.. We have technology for electric cars that is being suppressed to keep big oils gravy train rolling.. This technology if deployed in the US , Europe and Asia it would crush the Arab oil market..

Iran boasts and exaggerates about everything they have, and likely things they don't, the fact that they deny wanting/having nukes tells me that they do or soon will. Does anyone agree?

"accomplice in the consequences,"

Smart move Iran... did you get your political savvy from the GOP? (just kidding... couldn't help myself) You just turned all your potential allies towards the U.S. for protection. Meantime we (the U.S.) take the high road by using peaceful means only and supporting Iranians in need in international waters. Their tact will only isolate them further.

Joe

It is never a good time to be attacking anyone. We should avoid a war with Iran if it is possible but at the same time we should be doing everything possible to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons. The solution to our problems is simply to exploit our own resources and simultaneously develop alternative energy as a viable replacement. Oil exploration, drilling, and refining have changed much since the original oil boom in America and the damage that is done is far less significant than ever before. Our largest problem with exploiting our own resources lies in environmental groups that spend millions every year to block any progress at all at lessening our dependence on foreign energy. Whether it is oil, nuclear power, natural gas, or coal it doesn't matter to them, they try to stop it. They claim it is to protect the environment when all it really is doing is destroying the environment quicker by stifling the progress of technology.

@TrustVerify - yes I noticed (especially yesterday) that posts were getting deleted and I find it hard to believe that your post yesterday, which received over 99 votes as of last night) was "collapsed by the community." If that was the case, then it was because the "community" doesn't have the attention span to read a long, well thought out column....kinda of scary, when most of them are calling for another war. (it was a great essay, by the way)

Did anyone notice that this article is based on an Iranian "pro-reform" newspaper article? Iran is supposed to have elections soon - this could be the "pro-reform" way of making the world hate the current Iranian government - the thing is, if the current government didn't say it, why are we getting hyped up about it? This seems to be an internal power grab that has nothing to do with the US or reality for that matter. MSNBC has never been a huge stickler to the actual "truth" in articles.

RoadrunnerO; I agree with your comment a whole lot, except the part about Russia needing to be responsible and do some explaining. They won't and its really no different than when Reagan was selling the guns that eventually got to Iran. I guess a sale to an allied country to them is just a sale. What more can be said about it?

The part about our government needing an enema is also so very true, but is it enough right now? I'm not sure it will take care of the problems that exist in Washington right now. It seems like a good start and then to make sure its enough, get a Catholic priest in there and preform a exorsism. After Dubya and Cheney's reign in Washington, there has to be demonic spirits in that house. If I was President Obama I would carry a cross with me at all times and I would have a cross put on every wall in that building too. No place left unturned. As far as big oil surpressing this countries progress, thats texas thinking there and with the money they have, they convince the people that can make the correct decisions, which I think will never end as long as theres demonic presence in the WH.

There is no doubt something will happen with Iran if they do not change their leadership. My bet is revolution by the people as they are near the edge now and only need to get the courage and wherewithal to overthrow their suppresive regime of fanatical clerics. It may come to outside aid or as a last resort military action but that depends on Iran's responses to this posturing.

archangel 3:16, Your not kidding there. The EPA has more control than the government, at least it seems like that to me. I still remember the days of pollution and smog, that meant people were working. Working people were happy people and it didn't matter to them that they cut a few yrs. off their lives to support their families and to be able to afford nice things for them. Now days its a little more expensive to have these same jobs with all the pollution controls on them, but it is a lot cleaner and safer than it was back in the 50's or 60's. Myself, I think there has to be a fine line between the two thats going to balance work and clean air, water, etc. I'm not sure China was the right country to pick up the mills, they have no pollution controls what so ever there, but is that a "Book of Rome" kind of thinking to control the population of the world? Probably was, who knows for sure. Its going to be real hard to change all the issues this country has and to create a happy medium for all walks of life here. Lets face it, not everyones cut out to work in a office, some people couldn't be happier getting dirty and doing the things that no one else would do, while making money and supporting themselves as they do. I remember a lot of happy people back in the day of pollution. Oh yeah, those people had as much fun as they did work, there was a balance back then that made everyone happy, (except big oil companies). Well now oil got its way and through the EPA and whoever else they may have out there covering for them, they continuie to rake the money in as everyone else can just watch them do it.

Hello Black Kettle and Sand Creek, thanks for your insight and ability to see through the dark smoke that has choked out a lot of humanities clarity regarding the quest to move our planet beyond self destruction. Many have been institutionalized not to question authority and will submit to the dictates of those who are actually manipulating and oppressing them. In my estimation the Iranian dilemma is the fulcrum that will determine our future. Do we choose humanity or the greedy elite who feel that our children can be used as expendable chattel and that our planet can be pillaged for their own selfish avarice? Thanks again!

PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS was an editor of the Wall Street Journal and an Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury during the Reagan Administration.

JANUARY 12, 2012

Pointless Provocations

The Next War on Washington’s Agenda

by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Only the blind do not see that the US government is preparing to attack Iran. Washington has deployed missiles directed at Iran in its oil emirate puppet states, Oman and the UAE, and little doubt in the other US puppet states in the Middle East. Washington has beefed up Saudi Arabia’s jet fighter force. Most recently, Washington has deployed 9,000 US troops to Israel to participate in “war games” designed to test the US/Israeli air defense system. As Iran represents no threat unless attacked, Washington’s war preparations signal Washington’s intention to attack Iran.

Another signal that Washington has a new war on its agenda is the raised level of Washington’s rhetoric and demonization of Iran. Judging by polls Washington’s propaganda that Iran is threatening the US by developing a nuclear weapon has met with success. Half of the American public support a military attack on Iran in order to

prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear capability. Those of us who are trying to awaken our fellow citizens start from a deficit that the minds of half of the US population are under Big Brother’s control.

As the International Atomic Energy Agency’s reports from its inspectors on the ground in Iran have made clear for years, there is no evidence that Iran has diverted any enriched uranium from its nuclear energy program. The shrill hype coming from Washington and from the neoconservative media is groundless. it is the same level of lie as Washington’s claim that Saddam Hussein in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Every US soldier who died in that war died in behalf of a lie....

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/12/the-next-war-on-washington’s-agenda/

Simply, there's naught to worry about; Iran develops N weapons, so what.... they could easily do similar damage with 5 or 6 dozen long range missiles.... or more, which they have. It's costing us more to B and Moan about it than anything. Ever using them, any nation with nukes, would be the end of them and so much else that it's more of remaining competitive, modern, and defensive than anything else.

America delivered the Bomb years ago, and it changed warfare for good; now, many have it but using it is unthinkable and beyond suicidal. The days of militarily trumping are over; there's not an advandtage, so why waste so much money and time worrying if Iran does develop a N bomb as well as atomic energy? All defensive; none will use N bombs...just fact. If actually used, none have any more to worry about anyways..... Journey had a song- 'chain reaction'.

jeff weaver; Do you really believe a revolution could happen in Iran now? Honestly, I can see what your saying but, I just think there would be too many different groups of rebels there that would want to gain some control there right now. They do have there problems in the middle east and I'm really not sure how they could handle them besides going to war among themselves, but I think they know there would be no winners among them and it would end up just being a loss of lives for them, that would make them weaker. So their way of life there now, will continue forever. They get pissed at one of the groups and they go bomb it and it just continues for them like that. If they had any sense they would try working out their problems to be a better country but, being so head strong over there they can't figure it out. I don't think it would take all that much for Iran to become another Israel if they put their heads to work, but then that would be too much power, in too little of an area, for all of them to live peacefully. I guess food and proper living conditions don't matter all that much to them.

I am not advocating war. I do not want a war either. However, I do not believe that the US should slink off and hide their heads in the sand when Iran becomes aggressive. We do not owe it to Iran to "play fair" when they are trying to tip the balance of power in the world and install a new Caliphate. My point was that we do not owe it to Iran to make it a "fair fight". We do not need to offer them the same capabilities that we and our allies have. We do not need to give them an equal opportunity. If they proceed to upset the world order, then we should stomp on them in any unfair way that is at our disposal. We should not have any regard for fairness in affairs of war. Yes we should negotiate. Yes we should avoid war. But military issues are not about fairness. This is the issue I was addressing. We should keep the military side as unfair to our advantage as long as we possibly can.

The people who are saying that it is only fair that Iran should have nukes are just plain crazy.

OOOOH Iran we'er afraid !!!

Thank you as well TrustVerify - I like reading your insightful posts (and those of a few others as well). I see we post again and again, we don't belittle others but as you said, we try to "see through the dark smoke that has choked out a lot of humanities clarity regarding the quest to move our planet beyond self destruction." I am happy there are posters such as yourself, Chris-749391, the poster above me-ArchStanton, sandrich (from yesterday) and others whose names I don't remember but whose posts I do. Let's hope the peace drum beats louder than the war drum.

We started this war of words with Iran - was it to take attention off the fact that France was downgraded and Europe has one foot into an economical abyss that we will share with them if they or we make the wrong move, or was it to take attention off our soldiers caught with their pants down or the court martial of the last soldier who murdered innocent civilians in Haditha? Most likely, the first....MSNBC smokescreens us with false news about our economy getting better - of course they use statistics because statistics are so easily manipulated, and math is not America's strong suit, (any number is believed).

Thank you again for your insightful posts - I even re-posted you last night after yours was "collapsed" - I think it was immediately collapsed again (my post, that re-posted yours)... I would love if we could chalk this up to "you can lead a horse to water...." but this issue is truly serious, and all we can do is hope that sane minds prevail.

The US no longer a super-power and it's time to stop thinking like we are. My personal opinion is that the global economy which we are now mired in, whether we like it or not, cannot be stopped and we do not really know who is behind the curtain, I can take a guess that it's crowded back there but it's not as simple as a President or a political party anymore. We also aren't allowed to look behind the curtain, glimpses come from foreign media - I find this very scary.

Thank you again, friend - keep up the good work (99 +stars) people are listening (myself included)!

@ Shouldofwouldofcouldof

The intent to contain Iran, by not only its regional neighbors such as Saudi Arabia, but by other world 'interests' is gaining strength. Former President Bush decided for the United States to enter into conflict with Iraq. A place we had no business being. I have ALWAYS been a proponent of prosecuting wars WITHOUT trying to fight them in a "Box" like we have been doing since after WW2. We were of course in Iraq for the better part of ten years. Our country went to war on December 7th 1941 (officially) and slogged through oceans, rivers, swamps, deserts and mountains on practically every continent and every no-name island of the Pacific. Four and a half years later we layed the final hammer on the country who sucker punched us at Pearl Harbor with two Atomic bombs. Not being apparently smart enough to capitulate after the first one was deployed we used the second. For what ever reason, our country has decided to try to talk our way out of trouble ' ad nauseam' since the Korean Conflict and start unwinnable wars when either the 'talk' doesn't bear fruit or we get whacked (9/11).

Our friends the Iranians have been very, very busy winning friends and influencing governments across the globe. Their efforts to our immediate south have been bearing fruit for them in Venezuela, Columbia, Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador and other South American countries. Resent reports say that Hugo Chavez may have in fact told their Iranian friends and trading partners that they could be invited to build medium and long range Missile facilities on Venezuelan soil and pointed in our direction. Hamas is Iran's 'Hit Man' and does its continual bidding. Contacts between Iran and Drug Cartels as far north as Mexico have been reported on by our government officials at official meetings with Homeland Security.

So if you think this guy is an armchair general you are misguided. I am a voracious reader of government reports across a wide spectrum of countries. You would be surprised just how much information is out there which is generated by multiple governments and it's not classified although much new information does come through the "Wiki Leak" releases. Iran is a threat to not only the U.S. but to people in those countries you would have never thought they would have contact with and that they are now befriending. Trouble is brewing on the South American continent and the American people have absolutely no clue just how involved Iran is in those countries south of our border.

For those so inclined. Here is a taste:

http://www.slideshare.net/ISWPress/irans-two-naviesiranian-naval-commanders

http://www.slideshare.net/pletz/latin-america-irans-springboard-to-amereicas-backyard

Oh Sure! That is why all the "Presidential hopefuls"are not basing their winnings in South Carolina on Religion. PLEASE WAKE UP FROM YOUR DREAM

IRespond - First off, the winner of the Republican Presidential Primary in South Carolina is not then named President of United States. Secondly, if you've been following the Republican campaign, you know that one of the chief qualities claimed by each of the candidates is the ability to create jobs, and not through prayer. Lastly, even if the most committed, evangelistic candidate running were to become President, his actions would be constrained, both by Congress and by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Also, here, for your edification, is the definition of a theocracy, a term you bandy about, obviously without any idea as to its meaning:

the·oc·ra·cy

   [thee-ok-ruh-see] Show IPA
noun, plural -cies.
1. a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.
2. a system of government by priests claiming a divine commission.
3. a commonwealth or state under such a form or system of government.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theocracy

This in no way represents the current government of this country. We have been ruled by secular leaders since the nation's inception, and in recent generations, a series of court decisions, based primarily upon the First Amendment, has eliminated many religious elements out of our laws. That is why we do not have prayer in schools in this great "Theocracy" of ours.

BTW: I am not a Republican, but an independent, leaning more towards the Democratic Party in my voting record. I did not vote for Bush, McCain, or even Reagan, whom I at least respected. My comments to you were based not so much on politics as in my deep dislike for lies and over blown rhetoric masquerading as truth.

" ... But our lilly livered so called pres. does not have enough balls to attack ... "

And you don't have the brains to get out of your own way.

Oh, and you can stop hiding behind your mothers skirt any time. And join that military that you are so willing to send to their deaths for your ideals. But then that wont happen. bBecause like most loud mouthed arses, you're chicken @!$%# to your core.

Consequences': Iran warns Gulf countries not to replace its oil

Yep, yep, time for the U.S. to send another sternly worded letter to Mahmoud Ahmadinnerjacket.

Via the U.N. of course.

That’ll stop all this nonsense.

Wow Waldo. Thanks for the links. Now I know what we're up against.

@ rufusthedog

Our government keeps us blissfully unaware of the " details." Iran has been working hard and they intend to do as much damage to us as they possibly can. They perceive weaknesses in us after 9/11 as many worldwide terrorists supported by Iran do. Their quest to nurture relationships with other like minded countries has grown exponentially over the last several years. Even to the extent that they will actually grow relations with CRISTIAN nations! They intend to strike from all different directions if pushed passed their breaking point. Our futile, wasted long term efforts in Iraq were an absolute waste of American lives, capital expenditures and worst of all, in my opinion, TIME LOST. Ten years in Iraq did little more that prepare that country for Iran to ultimately take control. We did Iran's work for them and we literally have nothing to show for it. Those ten years allowed Iran to build a very robust terrorist support organization, worldwide, and of course their nuclear program. We should have incinerated IRAN ten years ago. Not Iraq. Now, the chess game starts with a country which shouldn't exist in its current political state. The next several months will be interesting for us sitting with blinders on.

ROY WILSON,

RE: your post #1.28

ROY, we don't often AGREE, if ever! However in the case of your post #1.28, you are SPOT-ON!

America isn't an exception to our own ideologies.

This article isn't talking about the attack on the scientist, and who is at fault. It's talking about Iran's threats to their neighbors.

There are long issues coming out of Iran and with different factions even in that country it is difficult to determine what will end up happening. Thus the fear most other nations have in Iranian nuclear programs.

It looks like many nations have an incentive to thwart Iranian efforts. The EU, America, and the Middle East have reason.

Yeah right: We should allow suicide bombers to make bigger bombs?

There goes the little nazis in Iran huffing anf puffing again.These terrorists who have attacked on 6 continents. I saw the results of 2 bombings in Buenas Aires...AND if they think other countries are committing an "unfriendly act" by increasing oil production ..wait till the bombs and missiles destroy all their nuke bomb facilities and finish off the rev guards and the ayatollahs ,,who like Hitler will die in their bunkers Now THAT will be an "unfriendly" act .Sending the phony perverted ayatollah clerics packing!!

irene : No, Israel is nowhere near being a 'nazi' state. You're just another pro-palestinian utopia.

Why don't you defend the free state of Texas ? Or Corsica ? Or Basque ? Or the Free City of Danzig ?

Palestinian rebels made their choice, the only thing I regret is Israel not crushing them once and for all decades ago.

...democracy is a largely a choice preferred by free peoples with its roots opposing dogma...once dogma persuades free peoples to doubt democracy, dark ages will follow...

...will you vote YOUR congressmen out...or, do you believe that only other people's congressmen should be purged...?...this is where political polarization begins, the congresspeople are smart enough to follow the lead of the people that voted them in...

How about we agree that iran and israel are both theocratic a$$holes!?!

Iran is determined to install a world wide Islamic Caliphate and will use any means to achieve it. When a country with a radical military government says it will destroy another country is it just bluster or should it be taken seriously? Iran is and has been supporting various terrorist groups around the world and if nuclear armed would eventually give one of their weapons to a terrorist group to use against Israel, the US or some other country. The resulting chaos would disrupt the worlds economies leading to even more radical groups gaining power. It is always smart to believe what someone is saying and take action in advance.

China and Russia won't do one thing. China is already asking for more oil from others.

Irene:

Why don't you move to Iran. You will fit right in with the Iranian women there who all look like cancer patients with scarfs covering their hair. Whatever you do though don't divorce your husband even if he rapes or beats you because he will get custody of your children and you will lose your home.

Our President is making a strategic decision to pursue diplomacy which may result in increased monitoring of Iran's nuclear program and allowing oil companies to work out alternate suppliers. That's what Iran is griping about now. Oil is their only bargaining chip and they are going to use it, just as every other country uses what they have. Most of these bellicose statements are for internal consumption to show their people they are being tough. No one outside Iran much cares.

I enjoy all of the yahoo rednecks whining still because a black man is in the White House. If we didn't get a break from the borrow, spend and waste GOP presidents, we would have seen the USA in bankruptcy court by now. And the yahoo rednecks would all be running around looking for work.

You mean, the Republicant's are the single biggest threat to the US. They are already and will continue to destroy us from within.

RETHUGs are the "Party of NO!" - no help, no cooperation, no intelligence