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Interpol has issued a "red notice", above, for Benny Wenda, a tribal leader who campaigns for independence for the West Papua region from Indonesia. Wenda has been granted asylum in the U.K. on political grounds, according to Fair Trials International.
LONDON -- A landmark lawsuit alleging that dictatorships and other oppressive regimes are using Interpol's alert system to harass or detain political dissidents is being planned by rights activists and lawyers.
Campaigners allege that rogue states have fabricated criminal charges against opposition activists who have been given refuge in other countries and then sought their arrest by obtaining "red notices" from the global police body.
There are currently about 26,000 outstanding red notices. While they are only designed to alert other nations' police forces that an Interpol member state has issued an arrest warrant, some countries will take suspects into custody based on the red notice alone.
In one case, Rasoul Mazrae, an Iranian political activist recognized by the United Nations as a refugee, was arrested in Syria in 2006 as he tried to flee to Norway after a red notice was issued.
Mazrae was deported back to Iran, where he was tortured, according to a report by Libby Lewis, of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists. He was later jailed for 15 years, Amnesty International says.
'Torturers and murderers'
In one of the latest cases, a red notice has been issued for Benny Wenda, a tribal leader who campaigns for independence for the West Papua region from Indonesia. He was granted asylum in the U.K. after claiming he had been tortured and prosecuted for inciting people to attack a police station. Wenda says he was in a different country at the time of the incident.
Mark Stephens, a leading British human rights lawyer, told msnbc.com that the red notice system can allow Interpol to unwittingly become "an aider and abettor of torturers and murderers in oppressive regimes."
Amid mounting anger within the legal community, the U.K.-based rights campaign group Fair Trials International is now seeking people who allege their red notices are politically motivated to take part in a class action lawsuit against Interpol.
If successful, the case would potentially make France-based Interpol subject to the rulings of a court for the first time.
That would have implications not just for political dissidents, but could also create an extra legal hurdle for any country seeking to extradite alleged terrorists, murderers, international fraudsters, and other criminals based in another country.
Jago Russell, the chief executive of Fair Trials International, highlighted that Interpol's 190 member states include "countries that routinely abuse their criminal justice systems to persecute individuals."
Despite this, there is no independent court where someone can challenge a notice and "no remedy for the damage that notices can cause," he said.
Iran, Syria, Myanmar, Sudan, Belarus and Zimbabwe — all widely condemned for human rights abuses by their governments — are members of Interpol and each country currently has red notices listed on its website.
"Powerful international organizations with the ability to ruin lives have to be accountable for their actions," Russell wrote in an email.
"Interpol's own credibility relies on proper accountability mechanisms to weed out cases of abuse, but if Interpol refuses to put its own house in order it could ultimately be up to the courts to step in and demand action," he added.
There have been legal challenges to Interpol's decisions heard in some countries' courts in the past, but these have failed "to hold the organization to account," Russell wrote.
Russell hopes that a court with jurisdiction over a number of countries, such as the European Court of Human Rights, will take a different view.
"This would no doubt be a long, hard process but with thousands of people affected by red notices every year and, with the rule of law at stake, it would be worth the fight," he said.
Political persecution
Fair Trials International is currently highlighting Wenda's case in particular and trying to help get his red notice removed.
He escaped from prison before being sentenced and fled Indonesia in 2002. Wenda traveled to the U.K., where he was granted asylum due to Indonesia's persecution of him on political grounds, according to Fair Trials International.
Wenda then renewed his campaign, meeting politicians and others as he traveled the world. He also has a website highlighting the West Papuan cause.
Leon Neal / AFP - Getty Images, file
Benny Wenda, leader of the West Papuan Independence Movement, attends a protest in London on April 15, 2010.
In 2011, he became aware that Interpol had issued a red notice. According to those details of the notice that have been made public by Interpol, Wenda is wanted for "crimes involving the use of weapons/explosives" by the Papua Regional Police.
According to Wenda, he was charged with inciting an attack on a police station and burning buildings that resulted in the deaths of a number of people even though he says he was not in Indonesia at the time.
Wenda says he was tortured, held in solitary confinement, and the judge and prosecutor requested bribes among other irregularities during the trial.
Wenda believes the red notice was sought partly to try to prevent him from traveling outside the U.K. to highlight the plight of West Papuans.
A report by the Allard K. Lowenstein International Human Rights Clinic at the Yale Law School in 2003 found that "the West Papuan people have suffered persistent and horrible abuses" at the hands of the Indonesian government since the area was annexed in 1969. It also accused Indonesian military and security forces of engaging in "widespread violence and extrajudicial killings."
The research team concluded that historical and contemporary evidence "strongly suggests that the Indonesian government has committed proscribed acts with the intent to destroy the West Papuans ... in violation of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide."
'My people are crying'
Wenda says that his people continue to be "killed, raped and tortured."
"I think Indonesia is just trying to stop me and my campaign. I think that's the reason. I think this is just political motivation," Wenda told msnbc.com. "I'm not terrorist, I'm not criminal. Who's real terrorist or criminal? It's Indonesia itself.
"My people are crying ... That's why I am up and down the country, traveling the world, telling the truth."
Human Rights Watch's World Report 2012 also highlights that the U.S. provides "extensive military assistance to Indonesia" and adds that "impunity for members of Indonesia’s security forces remains a serious concern, with no civilian jurisdiction over soldiers who commit serious human rights abuses."
Jennifer Robinson, a London-based human rights lawyer and member of International Lawyers for West Papua, told msnbc.com in an email that "the charges that form the basis of the Interpol warrant are the very same politically motivated charges brought against Benny in 2002 -- and the very same charges that were the basis of the UK's decision to grant him political asylum."
Joshua Roberts / Reuters
London-based human rights lawyer Jennifer Robinson arrives at a hearing for U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning's at Fort Meade, Md., on December 20.
"I attended his trial in West Papua on these charges, heard the evidence and witnessed the flagrant breaches of due process at that trial. I am witness to the fact the charges are without evidential basis," she added. "This was recognised by the U.K. in granting Benny refugee status for the political persecution he suffered in Indonesia. Now Indonesia is seeking to abuse the Interpol system to extend its political persecution across borders, undermining the protection afforded to Benny under the U.N. Refugee Convention."
In addition to the threat of arrest in the country of refuge, Fair Trials International says that a red notice makes international travel risky — partly because countries tend to deal with each one on a case-by-case basis.
And even if a court in one country decides not to extradite the wanted person, the red notice remains and another country could take a different decision.
The stigma of being wanted for an alleged crime can also make everyday life difficult -- by making it hard to get a bank account, for example, due to background checks.
Michelle Estlund, a Coral Gables, Fla.-based lawyer who writes a blog focusing red notices, told msnbc.com that there should be some kind of quasi-judicial proceedings to level the "playing field" between an Interpol member state and an individual. Part of the issue, she said, is that Interpol initially assumes that red notice applications are properly submitted.
"If you are I are playing basketball and I haven't followed the rules and I haven't told you where the hoop is, it's going to be very hard for you to win, especially if the referee is presuming everything I do to be right," Estlund said.
Little transparency?
It is possible to complain about red notices but critics say the procedure suffers from a lack of transparency.
Complaints to Interpol that red notices are issued because of politically motivated charges are considered internally at first and then by a specially created body called the Commission for Control of Interpol's Files (CCF).
However, the panel -- which consists of five unpaid commissioners and three members of staff -- holds its discussions in private and does not have to give any reasons for its decisions.
There are few successful challenges. According to statistics published in the commission's latest annual report, 16 percent (or 32) of 201 requests that it received in 2010 raised questions about "the application of Article 3 of Interpol's constitution." Article 3 prohibits Interpol from activities of a "political, military, religious or racial character."
The CCF dealt with 170 requests in 2010 and 26 percent (or 44) of those cases resulted in the deletion of an Interpol file. Assuming 16 percent of those were Article 3 complaints, then just seven people had red notices removed in 2010 after claiming they were being prosecuted for political or other such unjustified reasons.
Billy Hawkes, the CCF's chairman, said the body examined complaints "very thoroughly."
"We recognize the dangers of red notices being used inappropriately for political objectives," he told msnbc.com from Dublin, Ireland. "Obviously we must all be concerned about the rights of individuals and dangers of abuse of the red notice system."
Hawkes warned, however, that adding judicial oversight of Interpol's red notices could hamper its ability to help catch criminals.
"We must remember that the object of a red notice is to have fugitive criminals stopped as quickly as possible, so they can face trial in the country they have committed the crime," he added.
One potential obstacle to taking legal action against Interpol is a deal it made with the French government that gives it immunity from some French laws. It is unclear how a European court would regard that deal.
'Unfairness'
Anand Doobay, a U.K.-based lawyer, confirmed to msnbc.com that he was "investigating the possibility of some kind of legal challenge on behalf of clients who are affected by politically motivated prosecutions which have resulted in Interpol red notices being issued."
"The unfairness which is caused by having an unwarranted Interpol red notice is very difficult to address," he said.
"What we are looking at is ways of trying to deal with the unfairness."
Estlund, the Florida-based lawyer, said oppressive regimes should not be expelled from Interpol because they might become "safe havens for people who have committed real crimes."
Instead she argued that red notice requests from countries with a record of corruption should be subject to greater scrutiny. "I do think Interpol is capable of doing that," she added. "I don't think it's too much to hope that that will happen."
A statement emailed to msnbc.com by an Interpol spokeswoman on Jan. 11 said there were 26,051 valid red notices at that time, including 7,678 issued in 2011.
It listed three ways people "can challenge a red notice and/or the national arrest warrant upon which the request was submitted":
- argue their case before the national authorities of the requesting country;
- contact the Commission for the Control of Interpol's Files;
- or request their country to take the case itself and protest against the red notice.
The statement added that the "issuance of a red notice is not a judicial decision." "Each Interpol member country decides for itself what legal value to give red notice within their borders," it said.
"Interpol's role is not to question allegations against an individual, nor to gather evidence, so a red notice is issued based on a presumption that the information provided by the police is accurate and relevant," the statement added.
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Leave a Comment:
Seems like the only way a system like that could truly function is if all states adopted the same laws. Since that is neither practical or enforceable, there shouldn't be an international registry to track people.
It seems to me that a lot of these "activists" and "refugees" are just looking for a quick ticket to Europe. If they're truely concerned about making things better for the people then why abondon the country?
How can they help the country if they are dead or in prison after torture? You are confusing the rest of the world with you pampered lifestyle.
Because YachtRacer that just usually ends up in being a dead activist. So you must be out doing a little trolling this morning or, as your moniker suggests, the world is a very different place from the bow of your yacht.
I see, so the solution to all this is to import as many people as we can and put them on welfare so they become the taxpayers' liability. You liberals are amazing, always looking to solve more problems when we still have a million of them at home. Rember this, if immigration countines as it is it will lead to turmoil and wreak economic havoc. And when the west falls we won't be able to aid the people of poor nations at all.
Obviously they flee the country because they feel their well-being, even lives, may be in immediate danger should they stay. In this day in age, technology allows for individuals to act from a distance. So just because they are not in the country does not mean they aren't making things better for their fellows who remain behind.
For all you know, these activists who flee could be involved in organizing some sort of aid being sent back to the people. It's entirely likely that some of them flee to countries with safer political climates, allowing them to lobby for support elsewhere.
Really now, fleeing one's country is hardly an "easy" ticket to Europe. For one, being a refugee doesn't get you free passage anywhere, and it can get a person killed for trying depending on what country they fled and what the circumstances were.
Yawn, this means nothing to us here in the US. Slow NEWS DAY. Why do we care what Foreign Rogue Governments do to jerk-off Interpol?
In the article it says they are political refugees flagged by dictatorships as international criminals. They are then being apprehended and returned to torture and prison. If that is accurate then the bad guys are winning at the expense of an otherwise good idea. The only real solution is to create an enforceable new world government body and declare states not in compliance as criminal. I think that has been the practice for sometime anyway as my country seems to be the global police force. The concept would be much more palatable if other countries from the free world were actually free and also participated as equals in manpower and money. Otherwise, it is kind of a no brainer that a country will brand a champion of human rights as a dissident criminal to be tortured and imprisoned rather than celebrated.
And who gets to decide the criteria for "compliance" and whether or not a country meets it? A one world government will only serve to erode our own national soverignty along with the rights our nations guarantee us. The United States should never surrender its soverignty to another governing body. We need to quit trying to police the world and focus on changing things for the better at home. Many Americans aren't exactly living care free in the lap of luxury these days, I'm sick of everyone guilt tripping us into sending our money overseas when we're stumbling as a nation.
I agree with you there. What will the world look like twenty years from now?
Yes, stay within the law. Stop over-stepping your mandate.
Don't you believe it's just "rogue states" using this. By the way, just what is a "rogue state"? One that doesn't allow the US a military presence?
Oh, and I think I'll call Interpol and tell them they can find Benny Wenda at WKRP in Cincinnati.
As long as the human race continues to separate itself with artificial walls and lines on a map, we will never truly be one people. And if the world can't or won't understand that, then perhaps it needs a kick in the pants. One thousand different laws on the same subject only serves to divide us further. And makes it easier for countries with corrupt governments to abuse otherwise good ideas.
Do you really think we would be better off as one people? I doubt it.
This is no different than how the US trumps up charges on people like the WikiLeaks and MegaUpload guys, then go charging into those countries (after bribing some of their officials), and confiscating and arresting illegally.
you must understand it is very easy to get on a watch list, Interpol, homeland security, FBI all security agencies are all tied together in intelligence sharing, which is a good thing,; however it also can be a major invasion on your rights as a American citizen; a friend of mine had a daughter in college in a State about 900 miles from home, she lived in a dorm, good student studying nursing; she purchased a small container of pepper spray, kept it in her purse, backpack or pocket when she went out ; forgot the damn thing was in a purse, going through security at a airport it was spotted; she was delayed and had to take a later flight; her name is now on a international terrorist watchlist, she is totally searched every-time she attempts to board a aircraft; her roommate was a Canadian girl, wanted to fly to Canada with her to spend a week vacation at her friends family home in Canada, landed in Canada, was refused entry, had to fly back to school; there is no way to erase your name from a watch list.
Nothing unexpected considering Interpol's history:
-from Wikipedia
Stop the SOPA!
This is a tough one. Most dissidents are not terrorists. But then, most terrorists ARE dissidents. I mean, that is why they are blowing stuff up in the first place, right? So where do you draw the line? I am sure that I do not know.
@saxon - As usual you are posting incorrect information. There is in fact a way to challenge your name being on the watch list and get it removed. I seriously doubt that this girl was placed on a terrorist watch list, she was probably just placed on a list that requires extra screening when she goes to fly. I understand that what happened was likely nothing more than an honest mistake on he part, but she still tried to carry a banned item into an airport. I can not fault the system for placing her on a list for extra screening after this happened. What she should do is file an appeal to try and get her name off the list. Here is the web address for the process for filing the appeal (http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1169673653081.shtm).
As for the subject of the article, there needs to be some better pre-screening of red notices before they are posted by Interpol. It is obvious that certain countries are abusing the system and some level of review is needed. A simple check to see if the person who is the subject of the notice has been granted asylum by any of the Intepol member states would probably be the best way to do this. It would help prevent political dissidents from being unfairly listed without adding a slow, cumbersome review of the validity of every notice. Interpol should not be in the business of determining the validity of all criminal charges leveled by a member state against an individual. Different countries have different laws and it is not up to Interpol to intrude on a nation's sovereignty by challenging the validity of a nations laws. The idea behind Interpol is to make it difficult for criminals to flee to other countries to avoid prosecution. The member states already make their own determinations as to whether or not to honor an extradition request once the criminal has been detained subject to a red notice. Interpol should not be involved in making decisions regarding the sufficiency of evidence needed to bring charges in a country, that is up to the laws of the country issuing the notice. Whatever solution to this problem is implemented, it should not infringe on the sovereignty of the member nations. To do so would likely be the beginning of the end for Interpol
Yacht racer, thanks for the most intellectually uninformed post I have seen in recent memory.
Perhaps in 100,000 years we'll finally acknowledge that we all reside on one planet. No, make that at least 400,000 would ya?
jsinsd; a expunging of the record., will not expunge from NCIC; that is where the Foreign Governments retrieve their information; we were getting many complaints from irate citizens who were turned away at a border (Canada mostly, they have one of the most stringent systems), of persons being found not guilty, or the case dismissed , mostly for DUI,simple Possession or domestic abuse, being refuse admittance to foreign country's); the system retains everything, period.
Just another mechanism for the ultimate control. It is time we re-think government. I do not think this globalization direction to be the correct heading.
One aspect of combating the illegal use of red notices to arrest those that are campaigning against the totalitarian and corrupt governments such as Iran, Syria, Myanmar, Sudan, Belarus and Zimbabwe and others is once they are recognized as the oppressive dictatorships and corrupt governments as they are or where they are recognized by organizations such as amnesty international or the United Nations for human rights violations- they should be unable to participate in the Interpol Red Notice system and requests for red notices should be disallowed by Interpol.
That would make too much sense and they still need to do a study that will costs millions to figure that out.
A simpler solution would be for countries to simply not recognize red notices from such "rogue" nations as valid.
@Bill and Baja
WELL SAID!
The solution is simple. The world needs cooperation among police forces, but they simply have to raise their eyebrows and question alerts from unfree nations. Where did Interpol get the idea that dictatorships like Syria, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, etc could be trusted?
Where did anyone get the idea that dictatorships could be trusted? There's the problem. Not Interpol, but in the habit throughout the civilized world of assuming dictatorships are actual, legitimate governments and not merely gangs of thugs currently holding their populations hostage.
What makes you think it is JUST dictators that abuse the interpol system? So does the US, happened in Ecuador in '09. Illegally removed a person of interest, by sending false info to interpol.
John, please provide your reference.
Not hard to find at all lol, Google search works pretty good.
It's been going on since at least 2006 and nobody noticed.. A guy was trying to run to Norway and no one noticed? What is this world coming to. Just because it's on the Web do you believe it? The Web = Truth for far too many.
wow the flip-n bad guys using a legit organization (Interpol) to do their dirty work..dosent anyone care? Surely the US and other countries where aware of this...or is it just the 2 step dance Nations play to make their foreign policy work???
A Lawsuit????.....Are you freaking KIDDING me??
What else are they going to do? Its not like they are Isreal with the international race card and can send a team of dirtbags to kill everyone. You got a better idea?
Have Obama send in a team of dirt bags??
European people are the most hated race in the world yet when other races are in trouble they run to our folk. I do not understand???
The power that be people have got to start thinking.
If Interpol has the same track record with dissidents that they posted with Nazi war criminals, there is very little to worry about.
ICC- International Criminal Court - the Interpol is by statute their agent in the legal system of issuing,co-ordinating,faciliating the apprehension of those sought by the ICC. Please,go to their website and read. Reading is fundamental. Interpol is needed in many facets- criminals sought for trafficking (heroin,unsafe drugs from Asia-these are rxs-contraband dvds,iphones,trademark labels copies,endangered species,humans-for sex trades or household slavery,illegal child adoptions,arms,chemicals etc), Murderers, monetary malfeasancies,,robberies,sales of stolen items-art,gems,stocks,bonds etc. Suing the Interpol to stop their Red Notices on behalf of 'totalitarian g'ments' is not the answer- there are bylaws and riders- where the amendments occur- i.e. totalitarian country x issues a red notice for dissident a- Interpol in order to issue a Red Notice must have the court proceedings and testimony attached to said Red Notice and the ECCR can issue a decision based on the accommpanying court records. (Like a Court of Appeals).
I think that this is unfair criticism of Interpol. Having been retired for a number of years but being at the U.S. National Central Bureau in D.C. for about two years, our procedures were different than described in the article. Yes, if a member country has a person for whom an arrest warrant has been issued then they can apply for a Red Notice, this is nothing more than a wanted notice such as you see from the FBI or U.S. Marshals, then if the person is located in another country a request is made by their State Department or equivalent for a provisional warrant to be issued for the arrest of the person. Once that person is arrested in the other country due process begins such as in the Wiki leak case which I admit that I have not followed completely and do not know if he was ever extradited on the sex charges. I am sure that there have been cases where over zealous police have arrested on nothing but the Red Notice only because they do not completely understand the process with International Wanted persons. I had a case where Police in the other country wanted to arrest the individual and I had to explain the process or it might have aborted the extradition. As I have said, I have been retired for a number of years and Interpol is the most professional organization that I have ever been associated with in my 32 years of law enforcement, but someone, the writher of this article would be a good start, should research this better and not blame Interpol.
At any rate if people have a problem with Interpol can't the laws be changed? It's not like they are above the law...or are they? If show shame on the citizens of the world.
Funny how Gaddafi only warranted an Orange ticket, yet Assange a red ticket just because Sweden wanted to question him on possible sexual misconduct?... Hmmmm.
g
This is only slightly related but people should google or look into this headline. Very interesting. "Atlanta Jewish paper says Israel should consider assassinating Obama."
In short the writer lays out assassination as just a relaxed kind of "third option" on the table for politics. I never know if this is to stir hatred as I am increasingly leaning towards Israels right to exist if they would ever support a European homeland movement somewheres on planet Earth. But if this article is true why hasn't Fox News or MSN mentioned it. One guy went to jail just for bringing up killing Obama. Shouldn't this newspaper be in the least. Publicly shamed?
Oppressive regimes, they mean the Republican party right?
This sounds like the way the Obama Administration is trying to take this Country
The right way you mean?
You have been Obama washed and need rehabilitation
Haha, i knew i would get ya going. Obama will win though. No competition.
Your vote will not stop him from getting the shellacking of his life
Think what ya want. But just sit back and watch him get re-elected. No competition.
Keep on smokin' that crack cocaine
Jack, childish.
And none of you noticed that Jennifer Robinson, from that same Human Rights group in the article, is pictured at the trial for Prv. Bradley Manning.
This is a political group trying to gain special legal privliges for people who agree with their views. and has nothing to do with human rights.
They should disband Interpol completely. Its been used for unethical purposes far more then for ethical ones, ever since it was created. The majority of people they investigate and arrest are for political reasons of one sort or another, not criminal. That includes governments in the west, just as much an any other countries.
The police state needs to be knocked down some, its starting to look like 1984 out there. I know most of the public is against it, and its hightime the public forces change. Its only the power happy government that says we want and need it. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I commend the people taking Interpol to task over these allegations. We need more of that, a lot more.
And you are a moron with no idea what Interpol does. Interpol is not a police agency, they don't investigate or arrest anyone and never had. Interpol is simply an organization that passes information between and among it's member agencies.
Yeah you can't hold them anymore responsible than banks who launder organized crime money. After all someone needs to take it and they really can't be responsible as to where the money comes from.
Different countries have different laws and their own "legal process" and like it or not everyone has to recognize those differences. Lawyers, be they from the U.K. or the U.S.A. have to follow the laws of those countries. Ms. Robinson may not like the laws of other countries, but she has to follow them. Ms. Robinson does get paid a rather large salary for disagreeing with the laws of other countries. She is getting a lot of "good press" and probably more clients. It's lawyers like her that cause "Civil Wars" in countries.
Not abused by ONLY dictatorships and other oppressive regimes. Supposed 'democratic' governments also utilize these types of institutions to oppress freedoms such as free speech and any other forms of transparency. No country can adhere to two systems. Either you are for good or you are for evil. Our systems and institutions have been and continue to be utilized for private interests. Those in power want to remain there as long as possible and will utilize whatever means necessary to squash any type of threat to their status.
It's truly amazing that you could write this on a news site that's also covering the megaupload raids on a Dutch citizen in New Zealand for alleged copyright violations in the USA, and not have even a hint of irony.
Valid point....
"Powerful international organizations with the ability to ruin lives have to be accountable for their actions," Russell wrote in an email.
Same could be said of NGO's.
Interpol will just become even a bigger tool for the New World Order BANKSTERS once they consolidate MORE power this year.
All you haters of Western Culture pay attention. White people HAVE screwed over the people of the world. However people of different shades of color due so also and generally more violently.
Just a few
1. Brown Indonesians genocidin/eradicating these darker non-Musliim people
2. Libyians mass murderin black Libyians and guest workers
3. Arabs (even though they look black to me in the Sudan) killin black Muslims and Christians in teh Sudan. I just heard on BBC that a mass murderin Sudanese General is now in charge of the Observers for the UN in Syria. Ya, can't make this sh!t up. LOL!
And da list goes on and on.
Git da US out of the UN and the UN out of da US!
America First!
Mac-101,
You are full of baloney.
200 years ago, it was the British Empire that tortured, killed and murdered our forefathers. Our forefathers fought against the British tyranny and won and we became independent.
Our first amendment was written because the British did not allow our forefathers to speak. Our 2nd amendment was written because the British were torturing and rapping our forefathers, the right to Bear's arms was necessary to protect our forefathers and families. Our 4th was written because the British soldiers were ransacking our forefathers' houses for no reasons and kicked them out of their own houses.
Mac-101, you are very stupid and uneducated.
Reall, The British "did not allow our forefathers to speak", "were torturing and rapping our forefathers" and "our forefathers' houses for no reasons" in 1789 (the year the Bill of Rights was introduced) even though the war had been over since 1783 (six years)????
Stand Up, Chill Bro, ya got problems. Last I knew Brittish were generally white up to about 25 years ago. Americans did screw over the Indians, who basically helped the White man crew over themselves since they used the White man to fight against their Red brothers. Didn't work out to well for them. Did it?
In defence of the British, they did impart Western Civilization around the world. As it stands now, it looks like we will be benifitin from the gift from Allah, Sharia Law in a decade or two. LOL!
Overall, As much as a loyal Amirican that I am, dedicatin my life to the Constitution, I would have to say the Brittish were rather benign in their control of the Colonies compared to others in that time period, or even the third world today.
@TheCPUWizard
I think the mode of transportation back then was a horse-drawn carriage...ever hear of one of those? Try riding in one from city to city and see how long it takes. Oh and compared to today's wastes of political space that's pretty fast IMO.
One thing for sure ... real terrorists will whine and cry crocodile tears and use this to escape justice. It'll be just another tool for them to continue their blood-lust savagery. CAIR's lawyers are probably already drooling on their desks over this.
I don't understand why Americans are so ignorant of INTERPOL. Their presents on American Soil is AN INVASION! The ultimate goal of INTERPOL and our present TREASONOUS leadership, is to use this International Militia to wage war on the average American Working Class, and impose a Marxist Regime. Every American with half an ounce of common sence should be Armed to The Teeth and Loaded for Bear, ready to wage war against INTERPOL because WE The People Of The United States are INTERPOLS Ultimate Target. ANYONE WHO AGREES WITH OR TRUSTS BARAK OBAMA AND HIS CRONIES IS A FOOL!
The people, who were involved in their failed attempt to assassinate Hugo CHAVEZ of Venezuela, are now living in America and no Red notice would be issued because they are protected by CIA.
Guess who has the right to determine who can live or die? It is US of A. Our government decides who can live or die because we are the strongest military power in the world, some day, another nation may take over and this new powerful nation will decide who can live or die.
Who says we have to fight for Freedom? We do not fight for Freedom, it is God’s given, and why do we keep hearing “Fight for Freedom”. This is a Con job created by our politicians to send our poor people to fight for Natural Resources. Sudan has been fighting within for many years and millions of people died over the past 10 years. Sudan did not get the same attention as Iraq because Sudan does not have any natural resources, it is a desert.
Red notice or no Red notice, just who gets to decide?
Stand Up, as a matter of fact, Sudan does have natural resources, namely, oil. In fact, one could make an argument that the civil war fought in southern Sudan was ultimately about control of those oil fields.
The problem here is that one government's terrorist is another's hero. And to make it more complicated, there is no difference between democracies and rogue nations, between democracies and tyrannies, all government, including ours of course, have hidden agendas where patriotism gets mixed with terrorism and it's impossible to distinguish between them.
Ever since the beginning of time, we had have this dilemma. In Biblical times, and even though tea partiers were not known then, David was seen by the Philistines as a hippie, dirty, smelling, w/o a job, lazy, but to the Jews he was their smelly hero who lead them to victory.
Closer to modern times, Monachem Begin was a terrorist wanted by the British, yet, he was one admired by the Jews. Yassir Arafat ditto, This nation and as "Christian and democratic" as we professed to be, makes criminals of others and the reasons are as incredulous as ridiculous. Ever since the founding of this nation, the government has gone after native Americans like Nazis against Jews, with a big true detour: Native Americans were the owners of this land and to make it more appealing to the 1% crowd, they call the owners "savages", the Mexicans: "illegals" and the game of semanitcs were created to try to sanitize genocide with something that would stick and voila, it became another "victory" for the spoilers.
Throughout the ages, decades, it has been always the same game. But the most pathetic was the "tragedy" of 9/11, because believe it or not and of course America can't handle the truth, our appointed government refused to stop 9/11 and since then terrorism, panic hysteria has been on steroids and our brutality, criminality has exceed our moral values, our Constitution. A tragedy that could have been prevented can't be a tragedy. It becomes an opportunity for cowards to take over our Constitution and make of this democracy another rogue nation, with a big difference, the rogue nations know they are, but we refuse to acknowledge we are as criminal, as brutal as those we go after and in many instances way, way more. Could anybody imagine that anyone fighting for our Constitution could become a criminal? I couldn't ever imagine, well, leave it to our war criminals and Pvt Manning that swore to uphold the Constitution, today is on his way to a prison form life for doing just that: Protecting America. On the other side of the coin, when we want to make heroes of comatose persons, we do it and refused to back down once the sheningans of our acts are discovered. A nation, organization shouldn't request anybody's extradition, warrant for arrest for any reason until an impartial organization could determine the facts, and be blind to agendas. In other words, the presumption of innocence that before was a given, now is just another obstacle, and minor I might add, to continue with our slaying of our devalued moral values and referring to true heroes as crimianls, wanted. If there was a bit of justice in America today, Cheney, the retard pervert and his cadre of war criminals should be forced to trade places with Pvt Manning and with Julian Assange and those true heroes our nation is so afraid of.
Manning is another one that wanted the spotlight and he got it. If you beleive the government sat by and knew about 9/11, I have a tropical island in Brooklyn I will sell you.
You are hilarious.........
You can have your opinion, but not your own facts. Of course, people with agendas, ahem you, shouldn't try to pull Newts here thinking that we all are as blind, stupid and irrational as you sound. Let me give you a little bit of history. Ever since the retard pervert from Texas was appointed by the tea partier supreme farce, his Treasury secretary said that that the super coward, drug addict, corrupt asked his war criminals to find a way to invade Iraq, no matter the reasons, no matter the truth. Second is well known to the embedded media, because if I know it and I'm not a journailist, it stands to reason, logic that they knew it also. Well the embedded media reported how the reports about the impending attack made it all the way to the whole administration and the reply from the coward that wanted to rule this "Christian and democratic" nation as a dictatorship, monarchy: You covered your ass. Implication? Now leave me alone, I need a reason and not you, not congress, not the supreme farce is going to get on my way.
Third, when congress wants to know what really happened after a tragedy, do you know what is the first thing they demand? An investigation and not just a toothless investigation, but one with statements under oath and with subpoema powers. Since your agenda won't let you see the facts, the truth, let me give you an example taken from Watergate. Of course don't lose fact that we know today all there is to know about Watergate, including who Deep Throat was and since you are not that smart, let me explain that I'm not talking about the porn star Linda Lovelace, but still referring to Nixon, watergate. Let me copy what congress gave the Watergate comission: " full subpoena power, can impound voting machines and ...
the rest as they say is history.
Fast forward to 9/11. The drug addict, supercoward and retard from Texas refused, at the beginning, to name a comission to fully investigate the facts, but he saw that he couldn't be a match to the relatives of the victims and reluctanctly agreed to an investigation, but he and Chney demanded that statements made by his administration were not on the record, not under oath-he saw what happened to Bill Clinton-and hell no subpoena powers. Now I could understand racists, political zombies not wanting to know the truth, but I can bet any amount of money that if the victims had been Jewish people, the retard pervert, Cheney and his cadre of war criminals would be in Guantanamo getting, I hope, a good dose of their own medicine. Denial is not just a river, but expecting people of good will to believe that his administration wasn't involved from day one is asinine, stupid and zombie mentality taken to the nth degree. And just FYI, I'm sure that if you follow the news, you have to know that the retard pervert was invited by the remnants of the radical right, neo-nazis anonymous, to receive an award for being as good war crminal as herr Hitler, but do you know why he didn't dare to go? An organziation had arrest warrants for war crimes against him and he as dumb as he is, knew that going his bigotry, corruption tentacles couldn't reach the Swiss judicial system, so to make a long story short he decided to stay home, as all the cowards do or run when the going gets though. You still believe in fairy godmothers and in our government? Well, pea brain, that is your problem but don't expect men of good will to believe what zombies believe. You can have your cake, but you don't get to eat it also. How you like them apples!
You are hilarious....so are your liberal retards that keep people in section eight and pay them to have baby after baby at the expense of taxpayers. As far as the current "administration", Your ole boy Obumer is good freinds of William Ayers, the 60's radical member of the Weather Underground that bombed US buildings and killed a NY policeman. So much for your left wing indiots that have destroyed nearly every large metro area with crime, drugs, welfare, umpteen illegitimates with umpteen daddies, while the rest of us pay for your stupid lifestyles. Speaking of stupid, you must be because you forgot about your ole left wing buddy named George Soros, the liberal left wing billionaire who invested in Halliburton and oil while complaining of the same. ha ha ha Too much..
So, back to your section eight with you...You are owned..LOL
By the Way.........
Quote from former President Bill Clinton, under oath and in front of the camera and the American people that elected him:
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica lewinsky"
I love it...
Wrong again. I'm not a democrat any longer. Actually I was never one, I voted for them because the radical rights, the neonazis scared the hell out of me and I've had it up to here with the KKK crowd always meddling into the majority's affairs. All those radical people from the elft never killed 3,000 victims, not a million plus of innocenmt civilians for oil. I haven't seen any warrants being drawn by foreign nations to come after those radicals of the 60s. And BTW stupid, they didn't commit war crimes, they commit few crimes, but those are political crimes. Oh boy, what is it that all radical nuts of the right are so dumb? I hope is not contagious. Now you make me worry. And how stupid to compare war crimes with "Define sex?" Well stupid, I don't defend Obama, although I voted for him. It's more, I hope he is send to Guantanamo for committing war crimes like your retard idol from Texas. Stop spewing such stupidity and continue flipping burgers!