Europe's temps are a normal winter for Minnesota where its a balmy 40 degrees..You can survive cold weather good luck to them.

It all depends on what you're used to. Six inches of snow in Miami is devastating, but nothing in Denver.

WOW, I have lived in the Great Upper Michigan and Wisconsin. I have seen weeks of below zero weather and never seen more then a few people freezing to death, Homeless people have had places to go due to the fact that people have pulled together to provide the homeless a warm place to stay. Liberals and conservative have set their differences aside to provide shelter for the needed, even Church and state gets tossed out when it come to providing a warm shelter. So why is it that here we work so hard to save people from freezing and in Europe people are passing away in the cold. Breaks my heart that these people, the churches, and their governments are not doing enough to save people. And this is not the first time that Europe has seen cold winters!

Olddog

Most of Europe is socialist, so the people depend on the government for so much, that they don't give as much to charities.

We in Texas, had a norther yesterday. It's up to 41 today.

So much for Global warming

Deal with it. I'd rather be freezing my ass off there than admit I'm a Floridian.

In the hope that the people of Europe who are suffering during this period of cold weather have the capacity to turn towards one another in acts of altruism and need and may those who are most desperate find shelter from freezing to death in community run centers etc. I think people are people around the globe weather they live under capitalisim, socialism or a totalitarian dictatorship. Its about who we are as individuals and what little difference we can make on our own corner of the street where we were placed to live by choice or birth. No matter what system we live under we can befriend and care for our neighbors. May anyone casting dispersions on various political systems and their flaws rather than focusing on those in need in this moment and what we might do find a warm inner light to replace the coldness of their hearts.

As the most proven accurate climatologists have been warning, there is a Mini Ice age on the way that should be even stronger than the one in the early 1300's that wiped out one third of Europe's population due to disease and starvation. The global warming idiots are in for a shock...and some are predicting that this cycle could easily hit the trip wire that will plunge the entire globe into a 100,000 year Ice Age Last one 114,000 years ago and overdue) that could very well be an extinction level even for homo sapiens. At the very least, we are in for a long overdue culling of the herd.

Yes indeed, Baby it's cold out-side. A few weeks back several died in eastern Europe from the severe cold. That was dismissed as they were only simple, meaningless "street-people." I have been very fortunate in my life in so many ways and have traveled expensively through out Europe. They are not "third-world" as so many people are too quick to call most of the eastern countries. Yep, "third-world" and then dismissed and out of thought much less any compassion or mercy. "The children are staving!" " Well the hell with them, what do you expect from a stone-age country..."

Just turn up the heat Europe, add more coal the the fire....Two years back Great Britain was offering financial aid to their citizens to enable them to buy oil for their heat; to stay warm. Funny thing, the Queen of England applied for the very same government aid with a statement that it is very costly to keep her humble abode warm, her modest little cottage in London. She later took back her application for assistance.

If they think they are cold now just hang on. When the EU sanctions against Iran really kick in very few will be able to afford a few gallons of heating oil. Iran has already stated that they have a list of EU countries that they will not sell their oil to. This list has not yet been revealed. Europe's oil and gasoline will soon be 15 Euros a gallon if not more. If they can't afford it now they sure as hell won't be able to afford it later. And, their government does not care if they freeze or walk 20 miles to work. Yes, just hang on, it will soon be hitting close to home right in your local gas station and oil provider. Heating oil is now more that gasoline in America. It is about $4.00/gallon. How are our elderly suppose to stay warm on their fixed income? It is like "ah crap, I have outlived my money. I remember the good old days when gas was 25 cents a gallon, and the same with oil, just put on a few more sweaters dear and curl up in bed..." The stone age, back then they had more sense than to freeze to death.

Iran provides 25% of the crude to EU countries. Some ones good friend; Saudi Arabia has said, out of the goodness of their hearts, they will make up the difference in supply. I bet they will along with their other OPEC brothers. Here bend over, and I hope you don't like it. Why do we, the greatest nation in the world, bow to the Saudis, kiss their ring, save them from invaders as with Iraq and Desert Storm, arm them, sell them our super fighter jets? And in return get the shaft every time we go to buy oil?

Fifty years ago we should of thought about dropping a big one on them when they created the monopoly called OPEC. When they celebrated their 50th anniversary, I was not invited to the party. I understand that all but one came dressed in flowing robes. The one was in a fine three-piece, Savoy Row, born in England and CEO of BP. You all remember BP? They are the people who destroyed our Gulf. They are currently running television commercials to try and make me believe that they have done wonders to our Gulf and that it is better than ever. They do not mention the untold millions of the highly toxic Corexit they dumped into our waters to disperse the oil. It did not just disappear.People are still getting sick and dying down yonder for unknown reasons. Unknown?

I have been cold I have been freezing cold. The coldest was just before the war; WWII. I was living in Florida and freezing my ass off. There was one Thanksgiving day that I will always remember. I was traveling through Turkey. A massive snow storm had stopped the trains. I was lucky enough to find a room out of the elements. After nailing some blankets over the broken windows and adding a few sticks to the stove finally I began to defrost. There was a time when I even considered burning a grand Steinway to stay warm.

The irony of all of this is no matter how many sanctions, no matter how high the cost of a barrel of oil goes I will make money. As I type this stuff the pumps are working on land and oil I own in states around America. As they pump away and as the prices rise the more I will make. $300.00 a barrel? Let them freeze, let them eat cake? Hell no. I think of the man, the American, who thought he had done all the right things, went to church, was a boy scout, did a good deed every day, worked his after-school job, saved his money, finished high school with honors, went to college and graduated Phi Beta Kappa..... Laid off from his good job three years back and now working three jobs in order to provide for his loving wife and three dear children. Yes, I care and I am deeply concerned about a government who does not. A government with too much power, who pays lip service and lies. There are Americans who refuse to take a dime from the government. It may not be stupid pride on their part, it may be that they understand that once in the system it is like a drug; a habit difficult to kick.

The people of Europe are asking why did we help the so-called rebels in Libya, where is that oil, the oil we need to keep from dying, from freezing to death. We The People should be asking the very same question. Last year the president said we were going to the aid of our NATO allies; he said it would be a "matter of days and not weeks." Almost one year later and over a billion of the tax-payers dollars, (they refuse to tell us the total cost). Show me the oil....There is no shortage. There are tankers full all over the world, anchored, and waiting for the price to rise. They are in the Black Sea and the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay.

Stay warm, put on sweater. Do not let that cold turn into pneumonia. Should it become pneumonia, you will have to pay a doctor to write an RX for an antibiotic; which he could do over the phone but he makes more by having you sit in his office for an hour or two waiting to see him.

So much for Global warming

Oh yes?

Have a look at the Northern Tier of states in the US. It's been spring all winter. Today where I live it's nearly 50. The normal temperature for this time of year is about 30 at midday. Most precipitation has come in the form of rain and there has been plenty. It's been so warm this winter the river hasn't frozen and the ice skating rink the Rotary puts in the park has yet to open.

It is climate change. And it most assuredly a fact. Two weeks ago I was sitting in Seattle pondering how to get out of town with first snow then ice then snow again, something as rare as hens teeth to them.

Europe isn't used to the cold. They don't insulate for it. They don't plan for it. Snow in Italy? In Rome? It's difficult for me to even imagine...

lol Seasons have often been out of the ordinary at any given time in the world. It's not climate change.

There's nothing to see here, people. The idea that humans are disrupting the Earth's climate is just a hoax invented by 97% of the scientific community to turn us all into godless communists. This is nothing more than Al Gore with an air conditioner. Continue to blindly oppose all climate legislation; your handlers' checks are in the mail.

- Brought to you by Koch Industries

Scientists (well credible ones anyway not in the coffers of liberals/Democrat fascist control freaks) have already stated why Eastern Europe is in a deep freeze: the jet stream is in a cycle of not dipping down to the south (a reason why it's been a warmer than usual winter) and instead been stuck dipping down over that area of Europe. It's driven in part by La Nina. The same thing happened in 2010. Anyone who thinks mankind can influence the upper atmosphere weather like the jet stream is delusional at best. Oh, and it looks like Europe may be headed for another mini-ice age like they had around 1600. Yeah, the earth does have climate change. Mankind has very little, VERY little to do with it at most. Taxing us to death under mankind-induced global warming draconian legislation and telling us how we should live our private lives is all the AGW crowd led by Algore (and the rest of the frauds that doctored data in junk science) want. If they really cared, they'd all be leading by example living 100% on windmills, solar, and growing their own food. But we all know liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Algore has made his millions off junk science as it is and still flies around the globe in private jets and lives in million dollar mansions.

JHawke, you are right that we can't control the jet stream and the strange weather this winter may have nothing to do with climate change. But you had to go on with your political polemic against your fantasy caricature of the liberals that you love to hate so much, and your slander and lies against good scientists that you don't even know. Politics has nothing to do with climate change science; only with its exploitation. Hate liberals all you want, but your attacks on science are pathetic.

Politics has everything to do with the doctoring of the data, to exaggerate man's effects on climate change. There is no proof that it would effect climate change very much if we shutdown every gas/coal-fired plant in the world. A hypocrite liberal such as Al Gore ignores data that shows man has only a one or two percent effect on climate change. This doesn't mean we do not clean up the air whenever possible without bankrupting our economy with horrendous financial decisions pertaining to climate change. There are many good scientists that the global warming alarmists are slandering with lies, just as you are slandering anyone that questions the unproven data fed to us by the leftist politicians. Climate change/Global warming driven by man is not a settled science. If it was settled there would not be any question, one way or the other.

DV, the side that's ignoring and doctoring the data are the denialists. The scientists fall squarely on the side of fact.

Exaggerate much, Toast? Are you saying that ALL scientists agree on GW or climate change? If you believe that, please do a little reading.

Don't count on any ice ages anytime soon. Even without carbon emissions, the Earth is currently in a period of low orbital eccentricity (nearly round orbit), which means it doesn't get as far from the Sun as it would if the eccentricity were higher. Another ice age is likely thousands of years away.

EricH-3359508,

If you look at the ice core results from Antarctica and Greenland, a period that covers almost a MILLION+years...

The Earths temperatures have been on the decline for the last 12,000+years...

Greenland's ice volume has been INCREASING for the last 60+years...

Antarctica's ice volume has had stable/increasing TOTAL volumes and the temperature average has DECREASED for the last 50+years...

Not counting the DECREASING temperature trend of the thousands of ARGOS buoys...

But that is right YOU are worrying about the 0.5% decrease that Greenland has experienced for the last 9+years. And are IGNORING the 10% INCREASE sence the 1950's...

And you will point to the sea temperatures recorded by limited numbers of ships in VERY limited areas of the worlds oceans. saying they are represenative of the WORLD Ocean temps...

Forget about the farms in Greenland and the grapes being grown in England, several hundred years ago...

Or the ice breaker and oil-tanker frozen in, while Alaska is have TWICE the normal snow-fall and temperatures 10+degrees BELOW NORMAL averages...

Climate CHANGES, NOTHING in nature is static. You can either adapt of become extinct...

Man may be able to effect LOCAL changes, ASK China about the effects for the Three Gorges Dam. And what they expect is going to happen to the local climates of; Laos, Myanmar, Brazil and others when the huge dams being built, are completed in their countries...

But just remember that man only produces/converts only 1/12,000 of the energy supplied by the SUN to the Earth everyday...

BTY - The time periods between GLOBAL temperature cycles are around 120,000+years long...

Not all, just the vast majority, DV.

Toasty, please re-read your post, you said all scientists.

Greenland's ice is melting at literally billions of tons per year. The claim that it somehow actually increased until about 9 years ago is very questionable; the past measurements were not that accurate; a 10% increase is highly unlikely (that would be about 1,000 feet of ice!). And ocean heat content increased in 2011 after a few years of being relatively flat ... see the 2011 summary at skepticalscience.com. Whether or not man converts only 1/12,000 of the energy supplied by the Sun isn't all that relevant, because the additional greenhouse gases are adding nearly 2 watts/square meter to the Earth's heat balance, about 0.8% of the average amount of energy absorbed from the Sun.

So does this mean you are rooting for more people to die???

global warming is a scam

Or you mean naturally occurring heating and cooling that the earth goes through naturally? Al Gore has you hoodwinked.

Didn't take long for the inevitable global warming "debate" to rear its ugly head. Why do people bother? Everyone's already made up their minds one way or the other. This is just another opportunity for name calling and reducing the already-nonexistant dialog even further. Heaven forbid we should address the problem like thinking people.

Weather is weather, not climate.

Go sell crazy somewhere else, old pilot. At MSNBC we are fully stocked.

Noxious ass gas from Republicans making talking points causes global warming!

Right now Al Gore is chuckling to himself and saying "I told you so." The European Ice Age has begun. Meanwhile in the U.S., we are experiencing record winter heat, another trend of Global Warming. Why? Because melting ice-caps are disrupting ocean currents which affect micro-climates, thus an ice-age in Europe and record winter heat in the U.S.

The global warming lemmings will tell any lie to further their idiotic agenda.

Old Pilot and DanGB, don't waste your time trying to explain the science behind Global Warming to these stupid people.. They are Ostriches, with their heads buried in the sands and no amount of proof that GB exists is going to convince them.. They simply do not have the brain capacity to understand it.. It's like trying to explain the facts of life to a 2 year old, it just doesn't compute..

I expect when our winters here in the US become as humid and hot as the Amazon Rain Forest and the Sahara Desert starts getting enough rain to make it a lake, they might, just might, realize something is up, but I seriously doubt it..

Well said, John!

sorry your head is up your ass NASA agrees with susie...who agrees with you? some natural gas fracturing geologist with a GED and trade school training. get your head out your butt and quit letting corporate conglomerates screw up our natural beauty and delicate balance ,for greed. We will all pay for what we have done in the next plane, so get ready corporatist pigs!

John, I just took a look at some of your other comments on other threads. I think you should take a good hard look in the mirror and then take a long shower with lots of soap.

The Earth has been cooling rapidly for the last 15 years. Keep up! Global Warming is a scam for the idiot class. If you are really interested in what is coming, read about the coming mini ice age that is supported by historical data that correlates to solar activity and variations in the Earth's orbit. All signs point to the approach of an exteme cold cycle that recurs every 100.000 years or so, and we are overdue. We are right on track for a mini ice age at the very least. Even London's lefty mayor has seen the light. The last 200 years have been well above norms. The majority of Earths existence since it's atmosphere formed has been much colder than human beings have experienced for the most part. Wake up call, anyone? Crank up the coal fired plants!

The problem with the global climate change argument is that according to the "alarmists" it is responsible for cooling and warming. With this circular logic, any event validates their beliefs. Periods of droughts, unusual warmth and cold, high hurricane/tornado activity have been occurring since pre-history. If you disagree with an alarmist, a typical response is to insult and dismiss you as having insufficient intellect to understand the issue as susie 630707 eloquently illustrates for us in post #3.9. Observations over one's lifetime are not adequate to draw conclusions. Further, the alarmists offer no practical solutions other than to cut CO2 emissions (not very practical). Solar/wind and electric cars cannot supplant present methods. With 7 billion+ people, and counting, on the earth, resource consumption will continue to increase. I'm not prepared to implement the only real method that would satisfy the alarmist...reducing resource consumption via population control, choosing who will live/die. It is only a matter of time until, like any other biological creature, we are culled by a disease. With population density increasing we are already setting the stage for its spread and amplifying the impact.

The more severe impact of natural disasters is only logical given increasing population density and development in hazardous areas. Of course there will be more death and destruction in a disaster if you have a million plus people living in an earthquake or hurricane prone region, than if you had maybe 100,000 people living in the same area 60 years earlier and an identical disaster occurred.

Folks on both sides of the debate are guilty of using a single weather event or even a season to dismiss or support one side or the other. Even a decade or century of information is not sufficent to make such pronouncements.

For me the jury is still out on climate change and the scope of the possible impact, but I think it is more hype than substance...If that makes me blissfully ignorant, I'll continue to enjoy it thouroughly.

gumballs that is very well put, thank you. There have indeed been periods in the past where global warming has melted the polar regions long before mankind appeared. The current warming cycle seems to be at a vastly accelerated rate.

Corbin: "The Earth has been cooling rapidly for the last 15 years"

How do you people lie like this with a straight face? Or if you are ignorant enough to not realize it is a lie, than perhaps you should not be so arrogant about telling US to "keep up."

Old pilot, Thanks for the kind words. Respectful discourse including disagreement is always preferred to name calling and just down right nastiness. Pleasure chatting with you...

gumballs: "Observations over one's lifetime are not adequate to draw conclusions."

But that is not what the scientists are doing. The prediction of anthropogenic global warming is not based on any temperature record. It is based on the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, which we have known for 150 years. Whether or not we can actually see that warming yet over the large natural variation is a separate question. It sure looks like it, but that is up for debate (and is where most of the argument occurs).

Because it is fact supported by data, Jock! Read up! The global avg temp has been declining for 15 years /

Jock, you really need to read up on the facts. The coefficient used to calculate the effect of CO2 was found to have been off by a factor of at least 5 last year! Only the faithful are still listening to the environ-evangeslists. I challenge you to read what the coming ice age scientific community is saying and look at their data and theories with open eyes. The have been right far more so than have the global warming scammers. Historical data indicates climate changes drastically in cycles and those cycles correlate to variations in the Earths orbit and solar cycles.

G Corbin, climate scientists are well aware of the effects of the Milankovich cycles on climate, and since those things can be precisely predicted we know that they are not expected to trigger an ice age anytime soon (that doesn't mean something else can't instead). But the Milankovich cycles did not produce all of the ice age cycles by themselves; they are simply not strong enough. They triggered positive feedbacks in CO2, albedo, and ocean circulation that resulted in the rapid spikes.

As for the last 15 years: first of all 15 years is not enough to prove anything; secondly, cherry-picking the years since the anomolously warm 1998 is dishonest; and third, even if you go down that road the argument is whether the period from 1998 to 2011 is a statistically significant increase or not. "Rapidly cooling" is simply not possible to get out of the data and no real climate scientist has suggested it.

old-pilot - The Little Ice Age began abruptly, natural warming could do the same thing.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/338160/title/Little_Ice_Age_began_with_a_bang

I am afraid we are in for a prolonged cooling period now though, mostly due to reduction in solar output. See charts at drop down menu: http://www.solarham.com/

Hey, in twenty years we'll know! LOL

"Hey, in twenty years we'll know!"

We'll know more, but that won't help some people. I mean, we are pretty sure already, and yet so man people deny it. In 20 years it will be more obvious to more people, but never underestimate the capacity of people to deny anything.

Corbin,

Not sure where you cherry pick your facts from, but this link shows charts of average temps, both recent and over 2000 years. I know it's wikipedia, but these charts match what I've seen elsewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

Now if you wish you can turn the charts upside down and get the results you so long for. I've been thinking that the reichwing deniers suffer a form of dyslexia because they seem to have a hard time comprehending what they see written. That's stating it nicely because many others would say they are suffering from stupidity.

Jock I agree that's not what scientists are likely doing. posters in this forum is quite another story...I agree with your contention where most of the debate comes from. You yourself cite it as a prediction of anthropogenic golobal warming. Perhaps a personally acceptable standard of proof combined with a suspicion (not paranoia) of government/corporations and the fact that modeling something like a planetary climate system with infintie variables seems hopelessly complex to accomplish with a high degree of accuracy, makes this issue even more complex for me.

For me the jury is still out on climate change and the scope of the possible impact, but I think it is more hype than substance...If that makes me blissfully ignorant, I'll continue to enjoy it thouroughly.

Bully for you. Do you have a PHD in climatology?

Okay. Here is my question to all of you people who somehow imagine this is a hoax, a hoax for what reason I can't guess and it's certainly amazing to get the entire scientific community on board for this hoax, but here goes:

How can it EVER be a bad idea to clean up the environment unless you are Big Business and don't want to cut into your management bonuses to do so.

mj,

You're hitting the nail on the head. Throw this question out......who stands to profit and how in this "game" of "global warming yes vs. global warming no"? Somehow the ones who want us to believe NO have stuck Al Gore into this story as if he's getting fabulously rich off selling us a scam. Al Gore was rich before this ever came up. But by trying to get everyone to focus on Al Gore they hope we will not look at where the real money in this game is. And where might that be? In the huge amounts of money the Kochs and energy boys will pocket by not having to be regulated. Big bucks there. That's the whole thing in a nutshell, and if there is a scam going on it is that shell game and that only. Lots of guys like to claim that all this global warming research is being done by scam artist scientists to fatten their pockets. No, the vast majority of this research is being done by accredited universities, mainly by grad students in the field who are doing this to get their degrees, not to become wealthy.

So anyway, if one is inclined to be fooled by a shell game, so be it. But intelligent people will try to avoid be scammed in such a way.

The scam is from the reichwing denial crowd, not from any leftist green crowd.

MJ.. GW is not a hoax, of course, but trying to convince those who have convinced themselves it is a hoax is a waste of time.. They simply won't believe it, no matter how much science is behind it.. I will say their one tried and true excuse for why there is no such thing as Global Warming is pretty much always the same.. 'The planet has seen warming and cooling cycles for eons, there's nothing new about it'!.. But, what they don't seem able to get through their thick heads (or the other end, as the case may be), is those cycles take place over THOUSANDS of years NOT decades as is happening now.. The fact that we humans, along with all the garbage we've brought with us might indeed, be creating severe climate change, simply can't and won't be tolerated by the ignorant and there are a hell of lot of them around! One only has to scan the comments above to see that..

There have always been non-believers who must be kicked in the teeth by the mule before they'll believe it is standing right in front of them.. ^^

MJ - Cleaning up the environment is a very good thing. We should all, as a species, work to keep our environment clean.

The problem is that the UN, under the control of liberal socialists, is more intent on redistribution of wealth and, in the process, skimming off all they can for themselves. They want to tax the west under the guise of giving to the undeveloped nations. The only result this can bring is to lower the living standards of all while enriching the scammers. They claim CO2 (plant food) is a pollutant, so as to appeal to environmentalists. This is the largest scam ever perpetrated against mankind.

Anyone who says the matter is "settled" or it is consensus, is a political hack no matter which side they are on. The most powerful trait of a scientist is skepticism. Any scientific report should contain ALL raw data, should explain it's theory, how the data supports it and what data contradicts it. It should also list all other known theories and how the data both supports and contradicts them.

Anything less than that is propaganda, again no matter which side.

From the above, the instant the IPCC destroyed their raw data, "because there was no room for it", they ceased to be scientists and became political hacks. Cherry picking data from both sides proves that neither has any real interest in science, only pseudo science.

It's beginning to look like climatology itself is pseudo science, there are just way too many variables, most not well understood to deduce any definitive answers.

I was most gratified when a number of reputable scientists issued a statement recently saying the raw data did not support all the fear mongering going on and suggested the influence and intimidation of money and job security as possible sources, I've been saying the same for years.

Melting glaciers, and the resultant sea level rise would suggest that long term warming is taking place. Since we are still coming out of the last ice age we should be warming. My guess is that people are contributing, but that's where the data becomes somewhat contradictory as to how much.

That being said, it is NOT the time to hit the panic button. When the co chair of the IPCC says publicly that the goal of climate change action was to transfer wealth from the rich countries to the poor, that smacks of a political agenda, not a scientific one.

Anyone who wants to know what a true scientist is should read any of the Joseph Feynman books. A Nobel laureate in physics, and the father of nano technology, he is a great read to boot.

Care to name these "reputable scientists" and their publications? Not saying they are not reputable, or that they are in error, but I would like to read something that says global warming is not happening from someone I could trust a little. So far I have not found any taking this position that didn't have a dog in the fight.

Corbin,

Only the faithful are still listening to the environ-evangeslists?

Where do you guys get such speech? Faithful? Environ-evangelists? I would think it is your crowd that is being "faithful" because you certainly don't have the facts on your side. Evangelists? People who do not accept science need superstition or religion, the rest of us don't. Really wierd talk coming from you guys. Does that mean your crowd is a little wierd? Methinks so.

p111: "Since we are still coming out of the last ice age we should be warming."

But we are not. The temperature coming out of the last ice age peaked over 8000 years ago and has beem varying just beneath that ever since. The ice age cycle is not a sine curve. We are either in it or not. Yes, the climate can still change naturally, but it has nothing to do with the ice ages.

" My guess is that people are contributing..."

Well, that is all very well, but scientists don't guess. They have evidence that we are contributing significantly. No, we can't predict all of the details but we don't have to.

danangel, paranoia is kind of pathetic. Yes, there are people who will try to take advantage of any situation. But that doesn't mean the situation doesn't exist. In fact, it would be kind of hard to take advantage of a problem that didn't exist, wouldn't it?

alsophia theophilos,

Here are a few people that think AGW is BS for more read the referenced book...

The mythical global warming ‘consensus’ continues to crumble as top UN IPCC Scientists Turn on the IPCC and are now bailing-out of the AGW sinking ship...

1. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, - Award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist, founding director of the International Arctic Research Center, twice named one of the "1,000 Most Cited Scientists," says much "Arctic warming during the last half of the last century is due to natural change."

He writes of “inaccurate temperature measurements,” including chapters that call man-made global warming fears “the worst scientific scandal in the history” in his book 'Lies and Traps in the Global Warming Affairs'.

2. Dr. Denis Rancourt,- A former Anthropogenic (man-made) Global Warming (AGW) advocate, professor and peer-reviewed environmental science researcher at the University of Ottawa. Physicist Dr. Rancourt, has officially renounced AGW in a June 8, 2010 essay, saying it is nothing more than a contrived imaginery ”myth” — in other words, an elaborate conspiracy. (Rancourt’s e-mail: claude.cde@gmail.com)

3. Dr. Judith Curry, -An American climatologist and chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Has been making critical statements about the IPCC and climate science, after working for & with the IPCC for almost a decade. See her heretic piece http://judithcurry.com/2010/10/25/heresy-and-the-creation-of-monsters/

4. Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski,- is chairman of the Scientific Council of the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection in Warsaw and former chair of the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (1981–82). Dr. Jaworowski--world-renowned expert on the ancient ice cores used in climate research--says the U.N. "based its global-warming hypothesis on arbitrary assumptions and these assumptions, it is now clear, are false."

He has published more than 20 papers on climate, most of them concerning atmospheric CO2. One of the latest - Solar cycles, not CO₂, determine climate, 21st Century Science and Technology.

5. Dr. Antonino Zichichi, - One of the world's foremost physicists, former president of the European Physical Society, who discovered nuclear antimatter--calls global warming models "incoherent and invalid."

6. Dr. Richard Lindzen, - Professor of Meteorology at M.I.T., member, the National Research Council Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, says global warming alarmists "are trumpeting catastrophes that couldn't happen even if the models were right."

7. Dr. Syun-Ichi Akasofu, - (Professor Emeritus, University of Alaska) professor of geophysics since 1964. Dr. Akasofu has published more than 550 professional journal articles, authored and co-authored 10 books. He sincerely advises us‚ ‘When people come to know what the truth is about AGW, they will feel deceived by science and the scientist involved.'

For a book containing the hundreds of other prominent scientist that deny the AGW myth.. see http://yhst-7134682615375.stores.yahoo.net/the-deniers-the-world-renowned-scientists-who-stood-up-against-global.html

The ONLY settled science is - The Earth CHANGES, man can either ADAPT or become EXTINCT...

Energy conservation and minimal environmental impact, should be the GOAL of EVERY HUMAN...

jock59801,

'Well, that is all very well, but scientists don't guess. They have evidence that we are contributing significantly. No, we can't predict all of the details but we don't have to.'

According to the EIA/NASA mankind contributes 3.4% to the atmospheric CO2 Cycle...

Over 50% of this 3.4% is from the manufacture and use of concrete by man...

The peat fires in Indonesa release more CO2 into the atmosphere than ALL of mankind...

Just the underground coal fires in China produce more CO2 and enviromental pollution than ALL the cars and lt trucks in the USA, combined...

The vast majority of the atmospheric CO2 Cycle is stored & then released by the World's plants and oceans...

For further reading enjoyment see;

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1111_041111_indonesia_fires.html

People...........climate changes for millions of years...........trackable proof of climate changes...........facts that industrialzation in the world can contribute in regions..................no possible way we can change these changes.........no matter what either extreme wants to do...........the world is changing.........populations growing.......climate changes.......power struggles. Hey, go help your neighbor with a problem they may have, give some money to a good cause.........enjoy life and except what we can not change. Have a nice day.

Jeff, the only way the climate can change this fast naturally is from a major impact event... And I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any catastrophic asteroids hitting yet.

Jeffry,

Nice post, but I would differ on one part. Accepting what we cannot change sounds great, but if it's proven that we are causing the problem by our actions, then it would logically follow that we can change our actions and effect the outcome of the problem. Logical? Or not? Asking you. Almost all the accredited reliable scientists are saying that it is our burning of fossil fuels that has accelerated this warming, so we probably are having an effect and therefore have an influence on the outcome.

No one knows how much effect that burning has on global climate change. The only data that I have seen is that it is a minute effect at best. I believe you would consider any scientist who disagreed with you, is not a reliable scientist. I also believe that is hypocritical of you.

Lots of people still use the term global warming since the climate change in question is being brought about by a rise in average temps. They only had to start using "climate change" because uneducated people couldn't grasp the idea of rising temps affecting regional weather differently, to include cooling in some areas.

AG99 Yeah, right. Global Warming causes people to freeze to death. If the Ice ages return will we experience balmy weather? Ridiculous. When the evidence started coming out that the earth was not cooling as the Global Warming alarmists contended and the winters were cold, they panicked and had to come up with a new name or be hooted out of town. Their new name, Climate Change , filled the bill. Then if it got colder or warmer or no matter what happened they could call it Climate Change. Climate Change is a fraud because it can't be falsified-- no matter what happens they say , well, that's Climate Change.

AG99, I have to say, it would sure be nice to see vines with intelligent folks like yourself, discussing stories like civil people. I have yet to see a discussion not turned in to a lib vs. repub crap slinging session. Thank you for the on topic post.

Someone criticized Europe for "letting their people die" and "not doing more to help them", when have you ever seen 3000 warm tents set up here when it gets unusually cold? Also, I thought Europe was the pissing post for doing too much to help folks?? Socialism??

I love the snow, and would love to see London, Paris, Rome etc. in the snow but, sorry to hear about all the deaths.

Well, much as I appreciate the compliment, I wouldn't credit myself with an abundance of intelligence. I do, however, like to see balance in a discussion. There are always two sides to every issue.

Shaking My Head, you'd better keep shaking it until you get rid of the talking points it's filled with and leave some room for actual scientific facts. The key word is "Global" Warming - meaning the planet (globe) is heating up. It does NOT mean that if one area is unusually cold, the science is disproven. In fact, it is more proof for it. In words you can understand, rising temperatures overall mess with the air and ocean currents. Some places will get much warmer, much places will get much colder. This is happening, right on schedule. It is messing with migration and hibernation patterns and affecting the cycles of nature.

Seriously, SMH? You see extreme weather occurring with increasing frequency... And you try to use that as proof against climate change?

I know. Seems we had much more snow when I was a kid. It's one of the reasons I moved to the mountains; they still get a real winter.

It only seemed like more snow because you were shorter when you were a kid. :)

Though one may use the "you were smaller strategy" I myself disagree in this case. I recall making snow caves in our back yard with my brothers, where me and my brothers would see how long we could make them. A white Christmas growing up in Wisconsin always seemed to be something as certain as Christmas itself coming. Now, it's a crap shoot if there will even be snow on the ground. So, I agree that something is up with the climate. Call it what you will, but I know, what I know and I will believe that. Only God truly knows the truth. Scientist continue monitoring the melting of the Polar Icecaps and the climate that is necessary for the survival of animals such as Polar Bears is diminishing. These are facts that no one can discount. So, believe what you will but, please don't try to convince me that my knowledge and beliefs are wrong. We are all entitled to our own beliefs and that's what makes us different. The bottom line is that what is happening is a tragedy and people need to bond together to overcome what is happening. Governments can't do it all. As pointed out in Italy, it makes no sense for the government to spend a ridiculous amount of money for equipment that may only be used once a decade. But, people coming together for the good of each other is something that is also diminishing and this, is truly a shame. Jesus said, "love one another as I have loved you" he has also said "when I was hungry, you fed me, when I was cold, you gave up your coat", we truly need to do more to help each other out. Does it really make sense that when you already have a place that you are heating and food on the table that you can't help out another human being with what you have? This is whats supposed to make us different and more intelligent from other species.

AG99

Sounds like you are saying that winter snow is a indicator of Global Warming. That means that last years record snow fall in the eastern US points to Global Cooling.

pockets of oily pollution stick together and float around the world.Some spots block sun some don't ,changes everyday. Thus I realize we are the cause. think about it. watch "global dimming" see what you think. If you have the capability to.

Johnny: I'm not saying anything one way or the other; you're reading your own agenda into it. I'm simply stating that I've seen less snow as an adult than I did as a kid. Same thing Krazy said above me.

Snowfall by itself cannot be used to determine warming or cooling. In some cases, collisions of warm moist air from the south with a cold air mass from the north will produce a lot of snow, as long as the resulting temperature is still below freezing. This is why warming (up to a point) can actually produce more snow, but not all storms work the same way.

Greg,

And growing up in MN I dug those same snow caves for a couple of years, and lamented the years when there wasnt the snow to do so. Years when we couldnt snomobile, years when we couldnt slide, years when january thunderstorms would melt layers of snow and freeze our pasture so I could ice skate our field. And I would listen as the old timers gathered around talking about how "there hasnt been this much snow since the 50's" or the easy winters of the 40s, etc.

As far as Gods (and what only they know), this is why there were rain gods, thunder gods, sun gods, etc sprinkled throughout tribes and peoples of the past. People looking for answers or someone to blame (hence the sacrifices to appease weather gods). Some things never change eh.

Climate (and weather) wasnt consistent then and it isnt now. Climate is cyclic and can vary greatly from year to year, decade to decade, century to century.

Have you made an inquiry with PIERS CORBYN ?

They obviously never watch those documentaries showing the glaciers melting into the ocean.

You mean the videos of melting glaciers in the summer? Or polar bears swimming in an iceless bay in the summer? Yea, strange how there is no ice in the summer!

So explain the reasons for the warming climate i durng the " Dark Ages " when it became easier to grow crops becasue of the climate warming ?

Are you not aware that EVERYONE espousing Global Warming stands to make ENORMOUS sums of money which ALGORE has already done ? Doesn't that make you question their motives ? Are you aware if we went back to livng in caves we would lower the temp an average of 6/10/ of one degree ! Are you aware the Sierra Club just admitted they received millions from the Nat Gassers to attack coal ? Are you riding your bic cle , not using electricity or cooking your food ?

Dammit, it is a scam and the only reliable alternative energy is nuclear and when it is mentioned there is mass hysteria ! France has about 80 % of nuclear generation and when was the last nuclear accident in France ?

Like Al Gore right!!!

tallman, you have there a lot of political and personal excuses not to believe something, but none of it has anything to do with science or scientists,

Are you not aware that EVERYONE espousing Global Warming stands to make ENORMOUS sums of money which ALGORE has already done ?

Please explain how, would you? How are they making enormous amounts of money from global climate change? You people keep saying this but I can't figure out how. Are you saying from lecturing? Oh gosh, that's always been a well-spring of huge cash--that's why so many people say, I'm gonna get me rich. I think I'll become a teacher!

Look, just take one moment and step back. on one side we have a bunch of tree huggers and on the other we have corporations. Now you tell me, who do YOU think stands to make the most money if their agenda is pushed?

yeah, uh, huh. That's what I thought.

Tallman,

Are you not aware that EVERYONE espousing Global Warming stands to make ENORMOUS sums of money which ALGORE has already done ?

If you want to know who really stands to make ENORMOUS sums of money off this game read post 3.28 above. It's the energy and industry boys. Hoodwinked you again huh? Gee, it must be a strange feeling to find out that one is so easily fooled.......as you will find out soon enough.

You have been scammed, and it seems don't have the intelligence to realize it. Those negative feelings must be the payoff you were wanting and so you probably don't even care.

Anyway, to show how silly your post is I AM ESPOUSING GLOBAL WARMING, so where is my check? I don't see it coming from anywhere anytime soon, so I guess to keep from being a liar you can send me my enormous sum of money asap. No one else will.

LindaBrown. No one on here has said that climate change doesn't exist. You missed the whole issue, which is how much human activity affects that change. That data is not proven either way, by a long shot.

Hmmm, somehow I missed out on all that wealth from my years of "espousing".

You know, one day I happened to ask a BP geologist how much oil was left under the ground. We were at a meeting in Wamsutter Wyoming at the BP office. He responded "2 trillion barrels", almost instantly someone spoke up and said "and at $100 a barrel you can be damned sure nothing and no one is going to stand in our way of drilling every last drop".

Hmm, I wonder if $200 trillion is worth lying to the American people over?

Deprogrammer,

Follow the money! Who stands to gain in this crazy game? Al Gore? LMAO

It's the Kochs, the Exxon/Mobiles, the BPs, not Al Gore and his chump change.

Good post.

you're right. the fact that it's cold in russia in the winter proves that climate change is false.

Mathuin, in fact this "global warming crap" is turning out to be very bad for life as we know it on this planet. Crap is hardly a strong enough word for what we are in for. Try going to the library or reading some scientific journals instead of listening to the head-in-the-sand talking points of the deniers.

Frequently I think it would be lovely if would could let the climate change nay-sayers stew in their own weather so to speak.

What a shame we all have to share this planet otherwise they could go live in China and see how long that works for them. As China has about zero regulation on anything.

Human influenced or not, it IS happening. Let's just lay off of the Global Warming idea for a while and think of the OTHER ways that our fruitful multiplying is causing the planet to be unbalanced. Bring yourself back to Jr High science class and ask yourself what happens when one species becomes over abundant. Take a look at Easter Island and find out what happened to them in such an environment.

When Russia re-annexes it.

LOL, Poland can keep the west of it. The hell with the bandera's nazi disciples!

You better ask when does ukrainian government stop being so inept. Even overdrawing of Russian gas doesn't help, over 160 dead is outrageous!

An excellent point. There is a risk that melting ice in Greenland could disrupt the Gulf Stream.

Yes, climate change is a natural phenomenon (dinosaur extinction, ice age/cavement, etc)... but if you dare suggest that global warming IS NOT caused by mankind, the climate change religious zealots will scream "heretic! denier!" at you, followed by much persecution and the 21st century version of the Spanish Inquisition.

There is no question that mankind and our activities(growth and expansionism) are polluting Mother Nature's resources faster than they can be renewed.

I'm more worried about the continued polluting of our water and air quality.

If we keep polluting the oceans, and cutting down more trees, we cut the filtration of Co2 and production of oxygen.

Ditto on the proofing!

Serbia

Some 70,000 people remain cut off by the snow and freeze. Huh?

There is no logical reason why climate changes can't be both natural (in the past) and man-made (now). In fact, many climate changes evident in the past geological record can be linked to natural emissions of greenhouse gases, either as a primary cause or a "feedback."

If he was talking about the whole planet then he was being stupid. So? Most climate scientists would agree that was a stupid thing to say.

“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,” he said.

This is pretty much true where I live. We haven't had any snow to speak of in years. Hint: I'm in one of those states that you think gets hammered by snow.

tallman, then government outlaw all cold snaps. Then only outlaws will have cold snaps.

True we haven't yet seen what happens when israel , US / iran ,russia , china go at it .

Global warming does not generate extreme conditions.

Statistically, warming has already been shown to cause more extreme episodes of precipitation and drought in some areas of the world.

The climate changes every 20 years.That is what I was taught.

"The SUN changes our climate more than anything."

No, it does not. That statement can be shown to be false by proven science. Yes, the sun is most responsible for setting our baseline climate, but it does not vary enough to explain most of climate CHANGE. Many factors change the climate more strongly, including greenhouse gasses. That has been verified by measurement.

Jock, your post is an absolute falsehood. People with any common sense at all do not think like you. Thank God.

barny,

Jock must be thinking with scientific sense. Common sense will tell you the earth is flat. Just look at it. It's flat, isn't it? It took people with a scientific outlook on things to prove that wrong. Thank God there are people with scientific sense, huh?

Jock, Barney and Dave would rather believe Fox "news" than NASA scientists.

While the climate has been warming a tad, in is not changing in any sense of the word.

The Sun has only varied in total energy output by about 0.1% during the era of satellite measurement (since about 1978). The normal sun cycle is only 11 years, with roughly half of those years (like 2007-2010) being low activity.

It certainly hasn't been going on for 5,000 years at the current rate, about 0.16 deg C per decade since 1978.

It certainly has Eric , you weren't there 5000 years ago .

No, Obamadidit dammit.

My here and now includes a future space for my children and grandchildren. How about your here and now?

that's pretty surprising coming from someone named "nascarlifer."

i'm guessing you haven't been to europe much or know many europeans.

TampaBayRays1 - Only 30% of Americans have passports - and I would suspect the majority are business travelers whereas 60% of Germans have passports

Unfortunately if travel broadens one our Americans are very narrow!

OMG. Barbie, Germany's citizens must have a passport to travel over three hundred miles in any direction, at least they did while I lived there for over three years.. Americans have no need for a passport to go visit a relative who lives that distance from their home. WTH is your point? Europeans have a complete different situation than Americans have, as to needing a passport.