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Subscribe to RSSRussia's foreign minister held talks with President Bashar Assad in Damascus as Syrian forces bombarded the city of Homs. NBC's Ayman Mohyeldin reports
Updated at 9:50 a.m. ET: Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday the world faced a growing "cult of violence" and Moscow must not let events like those in Libya and Syria be repeated in Russia. His comments followed claims of a slaughter and deadly overnight shelling in the city of Homs.
"We of course condemn all violence regardless of its source, but one cannot act like an elephant in a china shop," Putin told Russian religious leaders at a meeting as talk turned to Libya and Syria.
"Help them, advise them, limit, for instance, their ability to use weapons but not interfere under any circumstances," said Putin, whose country vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution last week backing an Arab League call for Syria's president to cede power.
"A cult of violence has been coming to the fore in international affairs in the past decade," he said. "This cannot fail to cause concern ... and we must not allow anything like this in our country."
Putin has often criticized the United States and its NATO allies over its use of military force abroad, from the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 to a NATO air campaign that helped Libyan rebels drive Moammar Gaddafi from power last year.
Meanwhile, the U.N.'s High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said she was "appalled" by the Syrian government's military onslaught of the city of Homs.
US shutters embassy in Syria, withdraws staff
The former South African high court judge said it was extremely urgent "for the international community to cut through the politics and take effective action to protect the civilian population."
Updated at 4:10 a.m. ET: Militiamen loyal to President Bashar Assad stormed the homes of three unarmed families on the edges of opposition districts in the city of Homs, killing women and children, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights told Reuters.
"The shabbiha (Assad's militiamen) broke into three houses overnight and slaughtered a family of five -- the father, wife and their three children, a family of seven in another house and a eight in a third," dissident in exile Rami Abdelrahman, who heads the British-based Observatory, told the news service.
The report followed claims that overnight bombardments killed at least 47 civilians in Homs.
There was no immediate comment from Syrian authorities and the report could not be verified because the authorities have placed tight restrictions on access to the country.
Abdelrahman said the attacks occurred near al-Fardaos roundabout and near al-Naziheen and Karm al-Zeitoun districts, where loyalist forces have been advancing after heavy bombardment of the city of one million, 88 miles north of the capital, Damascus.
He gave the names of the families as Ghantawi, Tirkawi and al-Zamel.
"The shabbiha (which means ghosts in Arabic) are acting as if they are at the peak of their power and that they can do anything to prevent the Assad regime from falling," Abdelrahman said.
Meanwhile, Russia stuck to its opposition to Western and Arab pressure for Assad to cede power.
The outcome of any talks on ending the bloodshed in Syria must not be predetermined, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said at a news conference in Moscow. The comments suggested that Russia, which vetoed a draft U.N. Security Council resolution supporting an Arab League call for Assad to quit, has not changed its stance on Syria following a meeting with Assad in Damascus on Tuesday.
Original story: AMMAN -- Bombardment of the Syrian city of Homs by government forces killed at least 47 civilians over the past eight hours, activists in the city and opposition sources said on Wednesday.
"The regime didn't expect us to continue our struggle against them," activist Karam Abu Rabea told The Guardian newspaper via Skype. "They didn't think we would persist. So now it is using its last card. It is the genocide card."
Hillary Clinton lambastes 'travesty' of UN veto on Syria
"Electricity returned briefly and we were able to contact various neighborhoods because activists there managed to recharge their phones. We counted 47 killed since midnight," activist Mohammad Hassan said by satellite phone.
The attacks on Homs continued despite Russia winning a promise from Assad to bring an end to bloodshed, while Western and Arab states acted to further isolate Assad following the onslaught on the city, one of the bloodiest of the 11-month uprising.
Armored forces loyal to President Bashar Assad have thrust deeper into the central city of Homs, firing rockets and mortar rounds to subdue opposition districts, activists said, a day after Russia said Assad wants peace.
Tanks entered the Inshaat neighborhood and moved closer to Bab Amro district, which has been the target of the heaviest barrages by loyalist troops that have killed at least 100 civilians in the last two days, activists said.
"Tanks are now at Qubab mosque and soldiers have entered Hikmeh hospital in Inshaat. They also moved closer to Bab Amro and shelling is being heard on Karm al-Zeitoun and al-Bayada," activist Mohammad al-Hassan said by satellite phone from Homs.
"Communications have been cut in many parts of Homs and it is difficult to put together an overall picture. But tanks are in main thoroughfares in the city and appear poised to push deep into residential areas," he added.
The official state news agency said "armed terrorist groups" attacked police roadblocks in Homs and fired mortar bombs at the city, with three falling on the Homs oil refinery, one of two in the country. It gave no details of any damage.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, representing a rare ally on a trip to the Syrian capital, said on Tuesday that both countries wanted to revive a monitoring effort by the Arab League, whose plan to resolve Syria's crisis was vetoed by Moscow and Beijing in the U.N. Security Council.
Lavrov - whose government wields unique leverage as a major arms supplier with longstanding political ties to Damascus, and maintains a naval facility on its coast - told Assad that peace was in Russia's interests.
Msnbc.com staff and Reuters contributed to this report.
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- US eyes humanitarian aid for Syria
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It doesn't sound like Assad is listening...
Hello folks, when will we discard our Imperialistic mindset? If you can't see that we are the instigators in most of the world's wars and displacement of millions of people who are fleeing our aggression, than you are in denial and are not paying attention. We need to stay out of other country’s civil disputes. I hope we aren’t going to go against the United Nations vote earlier this week and unilaterally go into Syria under the pretext that we need to stop the violence like we did in Libya. General Wesley Clark has stated that a Syria invasion has been pre-planned for quite awhile.
Friday, March 25, 2011
General Wesley Clark: "America will take out 7 countries in 5 years"
According to Former NATO supreme allied commander, former presidential candidate and 4 star US General Wesley Clark that they had received a memo that America is going to take out 7 countries in the Middle East in 5 years starting with Iraq, Libya, Syria Lebanon Sudan and Somalia, seeing what's going on today in Libya but also in Syria where violent protest just erupted, it is amazing how these things that were planned years ago are being achieved in front of our eyes.
Why is it other countries feel like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.
We are going into Syria for a couple of reasons, one, we are trying to dislodge Russia from there because they have a foothold in the Middle East via two military bases in Latakia and Tartus in Syria. Two, Syria is a strong ally of Iran. If we invade Syria we take out a strong ally and maybe incite Iran to assist giving the U.S. the reason they are looking for to attack Iran. The ultimate goal is to surround, weaken and to invade Iran. The petro dollar is at stake as other countries are switching to other forms of currency in buying Iran’s oil.
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars?
Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?
Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.
Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger
I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Trust...Very well said and I agree 100%. We have dropped bombs on 65 countries since WWII. Your list is small and leaves many more out , but every counrty on your list is correct. The USA has a very evil government...far from a democracy...just an evil Republic.
Maybe Trust should move back home
TrustVerify,
Hate to disappoint you, but we never did go into Libya, we let the UN handle all the air strikes. We have made plenty of mistakes in the Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan, too much support for Israel) but Libya is one where Obama got it right and chose to mainly stay out of it.
Ohh Thats a good one! LoL We didn't go into Libya, The President got it right! LMAO!!!
OUR Weapons, OUR Targeting systems, OUR Ships, Our Money!
The first air strikes, in what is being called Operation Odyssey Dawn, were launched from a mix of U.S. surface ships and one British submarine in the Mediterranean Sea at 2 p.m. ET, Vice Adm. William E. Gortney told reporters at a Pentagon briefing.
More than 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles struck over 20 targets inside Libya today in the opening phase of an international military operation the Pentagon said was aimed at stopping attacks led by Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and enforcing a U.N.-backed no-fly zone.
trust verify and all your lackeys sound like an Iranian PR Agency. We ain't perfect in the US, but those Syrian murders ain't too pretty. Go back to the USSR, which by the way, is moving toward a popular uprising of its own.
wow singbiker drink the coolaid much? We had less right to help take over lybia then the other countries you mentioned. Look at the mess we are making the middle east. Russia said enough and is backing a government thats friendly to them
From what I read, Islam is in its finest hour, Is there a Country, a region, a city where Islam is practiced not caught in the grip of slaughter. If ever there was a case of genocide or theocrocide the followers of Islam is in it up to their necks. It is not just the dictators who are slaughtering hundreds, the various sects and groups are killing each other in unprecedented numbers on a daily basis. Yet we hear Moslems throughout the world say Islam is a religion of peace, but only the dead know true peace. We are not spared from its carnage even in America. A father, his wife and son were just convicted of murdering his three daughters, because they violated some tenet of Islam. A reasonable person need look no further than his TV screen to see that indeed we don't need to invade anywhere, they are killing each other far faster than any invading army could do, in the name of Allah.
TRUTH- it is "grace and truth" that is Lord not your man made wisdom confusin it.
the story actually played out already,,the global government comes, people get marked, Jesus is really God and saves His people who chose whole they were alive in the first flesh saved by grace, get re made for New Jerusalem, Satan let loose in between... end of story.
Damascus clearly in scripture will be gone, the northern Russains perhaps invade the eastern army invades all going on Israel in the Middle East and thats when the show really begins, the Lord is real and only come through Christ.
http://www.trumpetsounds.com/isaiah17.html = site about Damascus in scripture you can read book Isaiah yourself
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
CORPORATIONS financial distractions etc.
This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.
The Beast out of the Earth
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
This reeks of propaganda to gin up the American public for a war in Syria ''the report could not be verified '' Zero evidence? But damn let's get all riled up! Me I don't have a dog in this fight,I do know that it is a civil war and we get only one side from the mainstream media. As an American I just hope the hell we stay out of this damn mess!
Look what we have for a so called president, obama, what a joke.
Trust Verify got close to a couple sound points but then got horribly lost by embracing stupid anti American slogans.
Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people.
Come on, really? How many times on theses forums does some half wit say "Wake up", or "Open your eyes", as if they are the only people who can see whats going on. Most people with the arrogance to think they have an exclusive back stage pass to the truth don't waste their time on supporting their dumb ass claims by saying "Blood for Oil".
If we are only engaging the middle east for control of western Asia's resources, then which oil fields do we run? Which mines have we seized? Can you back up your claim with anything substantial? Try looking at the big picture and drop the hippie jargon, or the only people that will listen are hippies.
trust=warmonger?
it doesnt take a genius to tel that germans started both world wars....anyone who agree with you are a bunch of kids...
we always steped in last
either way, just say you dont care about the people in syria...
no need to sugarcone it...
and lol at john-another conservative taking a chance to slander the president lols
what should we do? bomb syria? and then start ww3 with russia and china
bunch of warmongers
We put troops in a country=no in libya
We put troops in syria=go go
morons
somone take barabas off of drugs
somone fed him too much this time!!!
Do we really need another war?
just say you are willing to close your eyes while syria kills themselves
all you gotta say
Ummmmm, see those pictures of all those uprisings in the news? That's EXACTLY what will happen here in the good ole U.S. of A. if we get involved in another war in the Mid-East.
we come in peace but shoot to kill...
>-> );
If these unstable Muslim countries aren't producing weapons of mass destruction and they are not threatening other countries, then the best we can do is let them keep occupied fighting each other. We have tried to intervene and it has helped very little, if at all.
Sounds like something an America Marine would do, maybe we should go in and demote the Syrians to privates, huh? I love how if you dissent, you don't love your country and asked to leave. I'm a vet, not a wussy "Chickenhawk" unlike most of our "Officials".
Gotta love Republicans who wrap themselves up in morality and Jesus, then scream, "Bomb those Fu@kers!" Do you even realize how hypocritical you sound? Take some advice from your boy, Jesus and "Walk it, like you talk it."
I hope you take a deep look at your hearts China and Russia (yet I'm forgetting you don't seem to have them). I honestly don't know why we keep creating billionaires in China buy endlessly purchasing their lead paint based tinkertoys that are created in sweatshops in their suppressive regime with gleaming highrises and going deeper and deeper into debt with them.
My thoughts are with the masses in Syria who yearn for change. May you get there!
Under no circumstances should the U.S. lead an effort to stabilize Syria. We cannot afford to continue playing the world police role. Sure, what's going on in Syria is tragic and appalling, but it's time for their neighboring countries and, in particular, the Arab League to step up and deal with instability in their region. The U.S. is facing an insurmountable national debt and barely starting to crawl out from a recession. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective), Syria is small potatoes as far as international trade partners go, so there is little to no financial incentive for the U.S. to step in. We forfeited the luxury of being able to intervene solely on the basis of human rights violations when we overextended ourselves through a combination of OIF, OEF, bailouts of the auto and financial industries, and entitlement programs.
No we can't afford to play police but there are no christian missionaries, and there is no embassy. I don't know what else to do.
You are both so right RH Adams and Thalia Sanders. I paticularlly liked what you stated Thalia that we have closed the embassy, we cannot play police but simply send hope to they people. Russia and China have also displayed their true colors at the United Nations.
Bying time to pilfer public coffers and send them via the russian central bank. That would make sense as to why the russians would allow the continued genocide in Syria.
I totally understand where most people on this thread do not want the US to get involved with Syria's plight. You should be calling for the media including MSNBC to quit reporting on the bloodshed that gets everyone fired up. As long as the media keeps hyping the killing each day, it gets harder for the all of us to stomach this action by Syria. Unless of course some of you like seeing this.
We better go install some democracy...Do it at gunpoint if needed...It is for their own good.
Ahhhhhhh, the smell of an Arab Spring is in the air.
Oh wait, that's napalm!
President Obama -- how does your Arab Spring smell to you now? November 6th can't come soon enough!!!
Kind of like what went on in Iraq, with all the civilian's slaughtered, once America invaded, and what's going on in Afghanistan with America there. Oh, wait, that's right, those civilians are "collateral" damage!
TrustVerify: You speak an uncomfortable truth and one that is understood by many historians. Of course, you are attacked for it. Americans don't like to think they can be so easily manipulated or lied to. However, if you weigh the facts, your conclusion is unavoidable, although far from politically correct, which is why you are confronted. We are pawns of the powerful and the rich and they have lied us into their wars for many, many years.
No parent or spouse or sibling or child wants to believe that their loved one, their soldier, died for nothing but the greed of the elite. And so the lies live on so everyone can save face.
Wow, so much for compassion in this country.
People are being slaughtered in Syria. Little kids are being executed.
The media is barely reporting on this because they can't get reporters in there alive.
As for stories not being confirmed, there is no confirmed evidence that the stories of slaughter are untrue. Do you think they are just blowing the legs off 4 year old girls to fake the pictures? Get real. You are just afraid to see the reality, so want to pretend it doesn't exist.
There is huge support, even begging by the Syrian people for international intervention.
That doesn't mean they like the US - but when a brutal dictator has guys that are torturing kids - what should a parent do?
Can you imagine your kid being tortured to death in order to say something that incriminates the parents.
Can you imagine being that kid and while your nails are being pulled out by pliers knowing that if you tell them what they are forcing you to say, your words will be used to kill your parents, and if you don't say it, the torture will continue until you are dead?
They are begging us for help.
And we are going to comment about Bush or Obama?
So you can make some political dig on someone - oh, boy - you won that argument on Newsvine - should we give you a parade?
This Syrian calamity is exactly what the UN was made for. Failure to act because Russia or China could care less about human lives is no excuse.
We need to draw that clear line here. The US is for freedom and is against genocide/slaughter of innocents. If someone opposes that, then THEY ARE THE ENEMY.
The heat needs to be on Russia and China. If they want to support little kids being tortured, maybe their leaders need to be brought up on charges that they are aiding and abetting this massacre.
If they are against the US doing anything to stop this brutal dictator for political reasons, they we should recuse ourselves from any action - if that is what it takes to end this situation. I could care less who steps in - as long as it ends.
A Gov't cannot simply torture kids and kill it's citizens with tanks. (These are deliberate acts, not collateral damage). That is the classic definition of a war crime.
Will the real America please stand up...
Trust', I agree with you to a point. The US seriously has a PR problem and its caused by armed entanglement in other countries wars and politics. That said, I was in Nicaragua in 87 and worked in the middle east off and on since 91. The war in Nica was strange and oddly enough started by Carter and his regime. So much for peaceful Jimmy. I worked on a base that 'didn't' exist, but Jimmy had it built to support advisers and troop deployment back in the mid 70's!! Anyway, it was an entanglement that was never clearly defined and no one could really identify who was the enemy and who was on our side. So, to your point...there were no 'good guys' in that conflict. Now switch to the mid-east where life is cheap, there are no rules, not too many are educated and lies are just part of casual conversation. It is the most frustrating place in the world to work/live. Now, I agree that war is absolutely the complete lack of all reason, but there are and always be 'reasons' for it. Human nature cannot be changed...in our short history we have never learned the futility of destroying society for the means of power and perceived 'right'. We are often demonized as the instigator of 'all' these conflicts, but 'WE' are not alone and we are often playing a bizarre game of chess that no one ever gets to see....nor should we see. TRUST me, if you even had a minute clue of the things that go on behind the curtain you would be appalled. Given today's information/video/IT age more of that curtain gets pulled back and we have to work hard to cover things back up....no pun intended. It is soooo hard to explain, but in the greater good of keeping millions safe, some blood will be shed in the process. Countries like Iran, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc...mideast, do not care about you or your family or anything having to do with your way of life....for the most part. They would rather we didn't exist and it has 'nothing'....again nothing to do with policy or who is in the oval office. Hell most people are uneducated so they lean hard on those who are and unfortunately get led down the path of lies and contrived ideals. 90% of the average folks in thos countries are ruled by 10% of those who 'really' know whats going on. Its amazing how many i have spoken with in the Hindu Kush that could even point out America on a map or no who our president is. Life for them is a 200 mile bubble and all that is within it. So, in summary...war is ugly, but sometimes necessary to keep the world safe (not my definition) and the world is a dangerous place that doesn't care at all about you or your perception of peace. I too wish we could all live in peace, but because we are human and there is always someone out there that wants to destroy/control you....be glad you people like us that don't give a damn about them and will do whatever it takes to keep you safe!
He was listening. He very distinctly heard Putin say "Grozny."
Hello rootcause, no thanks I totally disagree with your premise that we have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here. You claim that there is a shadow evil behind the curtain that we are fighting and we can’t handle truth knowing who they are and what they are going to do to us. That is just creating another bogey man since the old bogey men such as Communism, Socialism, terrorism aren’t being bought anymore by critical thinking people. That in my estimation is a poor excuse to justify our aggression to the rest of the world, our country is broke and we are interfering with other countries? We have plenty of problems we need to fix and take care of in America first!
Obama is going to spend 1 billion dollars on his campaign and Romney will probably spend about the same. 2 billion dollars on campaigns, is that insane or what? Yet, we allow the Super Pac’s to have a huge influence in American elections!
We allow a foreign entity (Federal Reserve, neither federal nor a reserve, a group of mostly European banksters) to control our currency! This system is why you, I, economies and nations are debt slaves!
We let Wall Street run our government! Wall Street is Washington and Washington is Wall Street! We have a two headed one party system serving their masters Wall Street and the Federal Reserve!
Our congress is bought and paid for and involved with insider trading! Doing the bidding for those who put the most money in their pockets!
We've legalized Corporations (Citizen's United) as people! They can now buy any election they want to, from sheriff to president! They don't even have to be American corporations! Corporations have severed their moral contract with America. It used to be you worked hard and helped them gain success and you shared in the success through better wages and benefits, all you get now is a pink slip.
The BP Corporation will likely not be charged with any criminal malfeasance in the largest natural disaster in history. The oil leak continues to flow and there are reports Corexit is still being used without any oversight by the U.S.. Many scientists claim the gulf loop current has been broken as a result of the leak. If you want evidence of the leak just talk to the residents and oil spill workers living along the gulf from Texas to Florida.
We invade a different country every year! Killing and displacing millions of people and spending trillions of dollars to enrich the Oil, Banking, and Corporate elites!
The Census Department of the American Federal Government recently reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”.
50 million people can't go to a doctor because they don't have health care!
47 million people need food stamps just to feed themselves!
25 million people are unemployed or underemployed!
15 million people's mortgages are worth more than their homes!
The worlds GDP is 65 trillion and the derivatives market is estimated at 1.4 quadrillion. If Greece defaults at 100% and If the ISDA (International Swaps and Derivative Association) labels this credit event a default, our 5 largest banks (own 97% of world’s derivatives) will crash. They can’t pay on the credit default swaps owed associated with Greece.
Our national debt is going on 17 trillion dollars! We pay off our debt with more debt! They tell the U.S. citizens it is their fault because they don't live within their means! They fail to mention it has everything to do with corrupt business and political leaders and the Federal Reserve and their fractional reserve banking system!
They tell us social safety nets, Medicare and, Social Security that you and I paid into is Socialism when the largest recipients of social welfare in the history of the world are our “Capitalist, Free Market banking and financial institutions”! Remember the bailouts! We keep bailing out the banks to the tune of tens of trillions and we're told it's because they are too big to fail and all the while we allow them to get bigger! We are witnessing the biggest bank robbery in history and the banks and financial institutions are doing the robbing!
Our media is bought and paid for by corporations and treat us like mushrooms! Reuters and the Associated Press try to tell us what to believe and think, such as unemployment is at 8.3% and falling, war is peace, they hate us for our freedom, the terrorists are out to get you, etc…
Our constitution, our most sacred document as a country is meaningless!
We have lost most of our civil liberties through the passage of the Patriot Act and National Defense and Authorization Act! They have authorized the use of spy drones in American skies! You can be surveilled by any number of Federal agencies, have your phone and compute tapped, bank, medical, and private records accessed! We are molested at the airports or radiated for “security” etc…!
We let the government divide us so that they can keep us in fear, distracted, and divided to the theft going on right in front of our eyes each and every second of the day.
What is wrong with this picture and what is wrong with us that we allow this to take place? We have lost our moral compass and our priorities as a country and need to get them back! Let’s concentrate on America for awhile!
Sockurmouth-
TrustVerify is a warmonger?
Ummmmmm, I think you need to go back and reread his posts.
Can't you see, TrustVerify is retorting to the Syrians screaming to us Americans: "gimmee your billions of dollars and your twenty year old men and women."
He's screaming back: "hey, wait a minute Syrians! Where the f*ook are YOUR billions and twenty year old men?"
Get it now??????
Hope so.
Assad :I know you are too busy to read our urgent message.. but I urge you and I beg you to stop this on going killing of innocent people!Imagine someone comes in your home and take your family s life? families should not be harm no matter what! those families who suffered before been killed are just like your families and you should do everything in your power to bring balance and peace and justice as if they were your own
Killing more will not solve any problems! it will only make things worse and worse...
Trust...I do understand where you are coming from. I just do the job and will tell you that at the level where we are at, there are no corporations pulling any strings. That, unfortunately, happens behind walls that dictate policy, creates distrust and places really good/smart people in harms way. however, being in the field and seeing the other side...they don't care whatsoever about anything you have to say. what moral compass do they have? where is the morals in a guy who chops off a little girls arms because she is the daughter of someone who disagrees with their point of view or helped 'Americans'. The world is a very dangerous place and most people who just sit in an easy chair surfing the web can spout more statistics and articles of discourse and corruption than I ever could....just due to time and availability alone...but my experiences are REAL WORLD and they are frightening. 'Fighting them over there to not fight them over here' is such a simplistic and amateurish perspective on an extremely complex blitz of human nature and 'gamesmanship' that exceed your wildest concepts of how things really work. Picture a game of chess with an endless supply of pawns and hundreds of opponents all moving pieces at the same time with motives that intertwine to best suite the flavor of the day and no one is following the rules. The point here is the world plays with no rules...
TrustVerify: Your point about the Russian bases in Syria is interesting. I bet most Americans don't know about the Chinese bases in Pakistan either. Those bases have a lot to do with why we can't ever win in Afghanistan.
"The attacks on Homs continued despite Russia winning a promise from Assad to bring an end to bloodshed."
Well I guess we now know what a promise from a power-hungry homicidal maniac is worth.
Obama does the same thing only from afar, and he got the peace kin vote...many leaders have for the greater masses, but to call it sin is another matter, an open book or peace and loving your enemies, totally different realm of political debate. willfull not through politics and an arms reach...americans cannot outsource things and hide anymore, walls are down , technology increased nowhere to hide and make believe the end is not a genuine reality, thanks and praise be to the LOrd our God who re builds and re makes and has made clear the voice calling from the desert. the Son of Man lifted up, the cross so that none will perish in all the lands and nations.
Barabas stfu >.>
god fearing maniac
go find a less intence hobby please...
...and Obama remains silent. I guess that means he condones a leaders right to suppress and murder those who disagree...
I don't understand why Obama was against Mubarack - very forcefully.
But on this issue he is silent.
He was behind the people in Libya, but not Iran.
Egypt was our ally, and we had contained Libya.
However Iran and Syria are both our enemies.
So he is very much for the downfall of allies, but silent on the downfall of our enemies.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but Hillary Clinton seems to have a much better perspective than most on this. She is showing far more wisdom than Obama by coming out hard on Russia and China who are aiding and abetting this slaughter of innocents. (Russia is selling several billion in arms to this brutal dictator).
Obama is only good at giving speeches, YET HE IS SILENT ON THIS.
That speaks volumes.
I don't know his soul, but 17 years in anti American Rev. Wright's "church",
his wife saying repeatedly she was not proud of this country until after Obama won the primary,
Obama's own word's that when he grew up his dream was to be president of Indonesia,
the grand bows to kings in Muslim nations,
his anti Constitutional writings,
plus the Iran, Syria vs. Egypt reactions -
all makes it pretty clear that he has at least some hate for this country.
I just don't know how deep seated it is. There are things about the US that all of us hate. So I'm not going to say that it makes him evil or the enemy - but based on his past, it certainly leaves doubts in many people's minds.
His stepping up and using his power as a speaker on this issue to help stop the brutal slaughter of innocents in Syria would certainly help me think at least a little better of him.
But more importantly, it could save many more thousands in Syria from torture and slaughter.
"Hillary Clinton seems to have a much better perspective than most on this"
Amazing how the Secretary of State has a better perspective on this than most people. I guess that's why she has the job. Obama has spoken out against Syria. Try educating yourself instead of partaking in ignorant Obama-bashing. He has condemned Assad but is hesitant to involve the military like he did in Libya. What more do you want? Do you want him to send in the troops so you can complain about that instead?
www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/17/us-syria-usa-obama-idUSTRE80G21120120117
www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/06/us-syria-usa-obama-idUSTRE8130HM20120206
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/08/pentagon-internal-review-syria-killing?newsfeed=true
We need to start putting sanctions on Russia, and stop doing trade with China. Boot all Chinese from our colleges and research institutions. Default on our loans from China. That will get their attention. We must stop treating our enemies as our friends and allies, they're not.
David...Back to sleep,please.
If we could bring half of the manufacturing that left the US to save money in China, now that the costs are rising there, our country is back in the saddle again. Bring our military home, and our jobs, and the rest of the middle east and asia can go fek thereselves.
Lmfao
ok david
the second we do that we kick outselves into the pit we just dug up
oddly enuff, the chinese are the only people doing the job for us....
either way if you guys like isolationism like way back during ww2
thats fine
just pick and choose what news comes in ,it doesnt concern you, you are not human
Even so, there was a LOT LESS innocent blood shed than there would have been had the ruler(s) been left to slaughter innocent people. But it's ok, it's "over there" and we can sit at home and armchair quarterback the scene from the comfort of our homes chomping on our twinkies! :))
Twinkies will be extinct soon. Then what?
Thank you David! It's about time somebody laid the blame right where it belongs. China and Russia have been our sworn enemies since the end of WWII. Why do we even trade with these corrupt communist enemies? Why? How many Americans have died and families destroyed by us trying to defeat communism? But nooooooo..... we now make them our biggest trading partners. It's like Israel making Iran it's biggest trading partner. We support their economies and have made China into the soon to be number 1 economic and military power in the world! Screw all of our politicians and let's take this into OUR hands. Don't buy one single product from China or Russia and yes, kick their students out of our universities!
Unfortunately the "fire" has burned too long and the Russians and Chinese have either added fuel to it during its build-up or are too late to have any influence that would bring about a departure of this monster and his vicious army and security services.
I believe the problem really does not rest with Assad, who is just one more totalitarian brute, but with the two nations, China and Russia, who because of their relative influence have a role to play as responsible members of the world body.
They have not done this, choosing to fall back to their "Cold War" opposition to the West. One can understand China, since it never left the "Cold War". But, Russia did have an "interlude" of democracy under Gorbachev and appeared to be on track to become....finally...a responsible part of the world. That all changed with Russia's "throwback" wannabe czar, Putin. He just couldnt let his country appear to be civilized, democratic and responsible.
Because Russia has lived so long now, under Putin, in a "confrontational mindset" incapable of looking at the West as anything but an "enemy", distrusting the West's legitimate concern about Iran and even its attempt to protect itself from possible nuclear attack from that dysfunctional theodictatorship..and..even providng nuclear expertise and equipment to this "outlaw" country, Russia has lost ALL legitimacy as a potential peacemaker.
Under Putin, (and his deceased "mentor", Dzerzhinsky) Russia has enthusiastically put the "black hat" on and slipped very comfortably into the country's traditional role of "international villain".
The Russian people deserve better;they certainly dont deserve a return to centuries of serfdom where their rights as citizens are laughed at by all.
So...Assad is not the only problem with the bloodletting in Syria....Putin's Russia (along with the 2ndEvil Empire, China) are the root cause of Syria's torment.
The day will come when the Muslims of the Northern Hemisphere will be banging on the gates of Moscow. after they unite from Pakistan to the borders of "true Russia" and after they gain nuclear weapons from Pakistan and Iran, Russia will have NO PLACE to turn because it has gone out of its way to scorn the Christian West and the West's institutions..and will have alienated itself from all potential support from the World's moderate Muslim nations.
No one is ever on top forever...just remember this when your time comes.....
Christian West????...Bull! America is no more christian than Santa or Jim Jones!
Great now you want a cristian state just a little reminder that didnt work out to well in the middle ages
if all god fearing people just shot theme selves and go to there respective gods the rest of us could build a great new world
Ask yourself
will religion bring peace?
-looks at the middle east and america-
(giggles inside)
Russia and China are playing power politics as usual, something the United States is sadly remiss at doing. The best way to keep your enemy off balance is to support his adversaries. We did this when Russia invaded Afghanistan, why should they support us now or at any time. We have taken stances against Russia supporting many of its breakaway satellites, Russia has not forgot this. Russia's only purpose in vetoing the UN proposal was to remind the US that when you play cat and mouse, sometimes the dog gets involved. As far a China is concerned they have long been the most political savvy Country in the world. China has interest in large areas in the Pacific northwest, the Phillipines, Taiwan, North Korea and what better way to force America to come to some kind agreement on the disposition of these issues than by creating a bargaining chip with a veto. If you doubt China's global strategy, it gained its position of prominance by watching the United States and Russia tire themselves out during the Cold War while it built up an infrastructure to make it into a global player. It deftly played Russia and the US off one another until it became as powerful as either one of them. At some point in the future the world will be divided into four sectors or spheres of influence. The EU, Russia, China and the Americas. Each will know its place and area of influence. The little Countries located in any sphere will find it difficult to do business, unapproved by the primary force in that sphere of influence. There will be overlapping of Countries in physical position but India will belong under the US sphere as will Japan, Australia will belong to the EU sphere of influence and there will be areas designated as free trade areas belonging to no one, common ground as it were. You may not believe it but a peaceful world will be the ultimate result. Why, you say, because the makers of arms will not have a market, the business of all trade will be in food and the production of energy and infrastructure and consumables.
"Trust Verify"
Your English is quite good, but Ill bet you are a member of the SVR and really a Russian shill masquerading as an American...
Agit-prop...seems we just can get away from it, Tovarich...
Yes Bob. Save us from the Commies.
btw, was there something inaccurate about his post?
Oh, definitely. I, for one, can smell an evil, godless Communist Russian baby-starving propagandist slimeball when I see one. I swear, I've never seen a single person who wasn't an uneducated Russian use the word "imperialistic".........................they make it too easy, seriously. Anyone with eyeballs and a brain connected to them can see that that much is (painfully!) obvious.
Damned Russians! Damn you and your red ways! Damn every one of you, and your precious commie vicar Putin (a.k.a. Satan), too!! Leave God's chosen country on this magnificent planet we so graciously call Earth alone! HURRY UP & LEARN YOUR PLACE ALREADY WITH THE REST OF THE COUNTRIES. Deus vult, America... Deus vult. I give it 3 days until we have every meter of Syria in flames...that'll show the third-world heathens who's boss.
say what
Yes, i smell propaganda...
bad history
and anti american slogans...
much like you, journal,--you are anti american
please pack your bags and bible and go to china or the middle east
you will not be missed
thankyou
Communism as a political way of life has all but been buried. It is still used as a political tool to govern but both Russia and China are too far along the road of capitalism to turn back to its misadventures. In many aspects Russia and China are as capitalistic as America is. The rise of the Japanese from virtual annihilation was a lesson not missed by our Chinese brothers and it was done through capitalism. Germany's rise was the same lesson brought home to Russia. As a way of life communism just doesn't work. It was a philosophy not unlike many which are widely practiced but suitable for clan or tribal groups exclusively. Even in its heyday communism saw and had need of some semblance of a governing body, often nothing more than a rubber stamp authority, but man as a thinking and acting animal cannot be restrained by a rigid set of rules past one or two generations. The governing bodies of Stalin and Mao now have some semblance of real purpose and authority. Petin is feeling heat, and China's current leader knows he can be deposed if he strays too far from the consensus of its governing body. Like Pogo said we have seen our enemy and he is ourselves. We have nothing to fear from comminism. Now Islam is another matter.
That woman that spoke after senator, is a spineless liberal fool. Mc Cain is right, the US should be active in a solution to the problem, and not by what we do best, which is stand behind our borders and give bull@!$%# speeches that dont accomplish anything. Thats America's problem, no backbone!
no backbone? Lets see, we have lead the way into countries to help them "resolve" their conflicts over and over. Americans have "dethroned" rulers and helped citizens take back their country....and for what purpose, they still fight and kill each other and Americans are hated more and more by the people that they help. Maybe it is time we stayed out of everyone else's business and tended to our own. And, of course Mc Cain wants to be active, we have thousands of military out of jobs right now, let alone all the machine shops etc. that are laying off workers because they had government contracts to build weapons etc.. I'm all for helping those in need, but it is time for the government of America to realize, Americans are the ones in need and the Government should be paying attention to it's own people for a while.
America has the backbone and the gonads to go with it. It's the damned politicians who are the gutless wonders and they are NOT America. We are America.
Conservatives cried when we went without troops to libya
they say OHH YAAA when we went to iraq
now we need to bring more troops into SYRIA LOLS
YET< its the same people calling to bring home the troops and save money
HYPOCRISY D;!!!
Send in the SEALS and put one thru Assad's head and leave. Or take him and his croonys out with a drone.
Since Russia and China nixed our Security Counsel efforts, what option do we have anymore? Seems like slim pickins to me. Get ready for a lot of blood. This county can't afford another arab war. One thing I do know, there is always an easy answer and it is usually wrong.
Your answer is always the same do nothing and trust in the Lord to solve the problem, How many tribes, clans, Countries have been assigned to oblivion waiting on some Lord or another to save them. We don't know because they are no longer here to tell us their story of survival. I know of only one historical document which continuously says that a people has been repeatedly been saved by devine intervention and that is the Torah. Jehovah nearly waited until every Jew had been killed during the Second World War until he sent in a couple of million Christians and non Christians to rescue them. I'm sure that this will be a chapter in their historical record in which they will give Jehovah credit as well. My Bible of salvation is written on the tombstones of hundreds of thousands of men who served this Country with their bodies their blood and lives. They worshiped under a multitude of faiths or none but they guaranteed my safety none the less. They have been and are my Christ, my Jehovah, my atheist, or my agnostic and many other Gods of little or large note. The only answer to tyranny is and has always been the blood of those who oppose it. If you are not willing to shed blood for freedom, then all you have to do is wait, your blood will be shed to feed it.
Just natures way of selection!
reminds me of 90% of california: so underwhelming - that is kind on funny...
still waiting on the zombie apokolypse
Will Syria rescue the U.S. working class when the secret cult that has infiltrated our Government ramps-up THEIR purge?
Are you a conspiracy professor O.O"
Of all the countries on earth who are having serious social problems (including the US and African nations), why do we see nothing but Syria on the news, day in and day out, day after day after day after day? What is so darn special about Syria? We have starving children right here in the USA, we have millions without any medical care, we have millions who are homeless and out of work, many with drug addictions and mental problems.
Why do we care one gnat what happens in an armpit like Syria?
The middle east "countries", all of them, are controlled by religious, uber-wealthy spoiled brats who can't get along, like cliques of rich kids on a playground. These rich brats can't control themselves. We need to pull the plug and start healing America. No more boatloads of money to the spoiled brats in the middle east. America first! Enough!
Dear uncle sam
please bring our troops home, those filthy animals hate us. we've given so much of ourselves to a people that dont deserve it.
Its all part of a plan. Animals? You mean the small group of extremist who don't want us on their land? I guess you wouldn't mind if a Chinese military base or Army was down the road from your neighborhood right? Keep in mind our founding fathers where considered extremist in their time. The group of people that are starting the wars such as the ones who slaughtered these families are paid to to do it. It's all apart of a bigger plan that was planned years ago to get a hold of the resources in the middle east. Causing instability allows more powerful countries such as the US and UK to take advantage of the resources.
Good Luck to the Russians on this one - we need to keep our noses out of it.
. Tanks and artillery are being used against innocent citizens. ASAD and his minority tribe is killing peoples indiscriminately. USA and the others Middle East countries must force Asad to leave and face the trial for innocent killings. Asad dictatorship and its killings of innocent are not acceptable to the free world at any rate. if the world do not come forward to help peoples of Syria ,then the question is that ,are we human or animals. Even the animals help other oppressed animals and join against the Asad like killers.
it is duty of those countries and peoples ,who have been given power and resources by almighty GOD to help the weak and oppressed peoples.if they do't , then they will be responsible for all the blood shed and killing of innocent.
I'm not buying it. It's our "duty" to heal America first. Enough giving and giving and giving to the rich brats in the middle east! We should let Russia sort it out this time. We simply can't afford not to.
Go stop it yourself you babbling idiot. From the sound of your posting name u r one of them . Not one American dying for Syria is worth it!
Screw 'em!
You only like us when you need our help then YELL how awful the West is when you get what you want. Go fix it yourself!! It is YOUR country, NOT ours! Again YOUR problem - YOU fix it. Your Arab Spring has sprung.
You just asked and answered your own question.
Wow nice Donald Coombs. Way to support the troops. If thats how you feel i hope you get your ass kicked for being an idiot. You dont have to support what our government does but please support the men and women who have to fight when our governemnt tells them to.
Another effing idiot! IF the fools that volunteer to fight, when their government tells them to, didn't! Or else found other gainful employment instead of buying into the corporate war machine, this madness of endless war would stop.
The Nazis told their soldiers when and where to fight and look what that got them.....and us.
U moron!
Is it not time the UN was democratized?
The Cold War is over and yet there seems to still be the polarization of morals and equity, West vesrus the East.
A while ago, it was a very popular demand by majority of the UN members give Plalestinian Authority a seat in the UN. Curiously and contrary to popular expecation, the U.S cast a VETO. Morally everyone condemns Syria's Assad but China and Russia do not see why the murderous regime should be sanctioned or removed. Where is the Evil Axis now? Right in the UN Security Council.
Here is how it works. We go into Syria free the "people" maybe kill a few thousand, force feed them "Democracy" that's our governments way of saying, put a puppet on a string, then leave them with another evil, corrupt leader (Somewhat like our own government) Then he brings in his hoods that rape pillage and murder, "Quelling the resistance" meanwhile blaming America for the atrocities of the war. Like our president blames, our congress steals, our senate lies. Nothing changes, war remains the focus, bankers get rich and the citizens get the bill.
Vote Ron Paul 2012 and remove the corruption from the rest of Washington, both Party's!
Russia & China: You have Assad permission to slaughter his own people. Russia: for the past glory of the Soviet Union. China: for business. Oh, yes, the US has done it in the past. This time you are doing it. I hope Assad falls and you have no freinds left in the Middle East except Iran.
They are dying for what they beleive in, which is a full Muslim State, ruled by relegious folks, that beleive in stoning woman. I feel that America fought for what they beleived in and many Americans dieed, on American soil, so let them die on Syrian soil.
Right! And millions of idiot Americans believe in "stoning themselves" daily!
Thus all the violence along our southern border.
Quite the opening post to this charade of a thread. I don't care if the basterds kill each other off. As for Wesley Clarke, he's a warmongering manic of the worst sort.
Don't forget what Putin did to Georgia a few years ago when they wanted to get away from the Russian sphere of influence. Or what the Commies did to Hungary in '56 (probably before your time) or the Czechs in '68. As well as half the countries in eastern Europe. Stalin starved around 2 milion people in Ukraine in '37-8 because he could. Millions more died in the Gulags. All told, Stalin murdered around 20 million of his own people and those he conquered.
So don't go on about the evils of the US and it's military machine. We have military "bases" or a military "presense" in more than 100 countries on the planet. We make the Romans look like amateurs, which they were! When I read of people wanting to bring the troops home from Afghan, I laugh. You stupid props. What about the other 99 countries?
As for Syria, who gives a rat tush? Let the bums slaughter each other. Fewer idiots on the planet that way.
Obammy had better get it together here at home or the little community organizer is going to be looking to give Lectures at Universites come this time next year, and not to the teleprompter.
Hilary Clinton, the Press and the other War Mongers need to step back and look at the whole picture, Russia could not and the U.S. could not defeat a small rag tag army of terrorist, or solve Iraq's problem. It is time for a wake up call. If Clinton and the press want a war, they need to put down diplomacy and their cameras and pick up guns, put your money where your mouth is. You bunch of sissy spectators.
So "Anthony" why don't you stop flapping your gums here and go join up? You seem to disparage spectators unfairly.....so go join the combatants and leave the posting to others with greater intellect than you display.
I don't know how the leaders of Russia and China can sleep knowing that innocent women and kids,let alone the men of these families are being killed for no reason and that they could stop it if they had a heart. Like many have said here, they too had better wake up to whats going to be happening in their own countries. People every where are getting tired of being slaves of the higher up in their goverments and the super rich.
Because Bobby they do not give a rats tush. With their histories, they do not have any problems sleeping at night. Or during the day for that matter.
U sound like a simpleton liberal!
BobbyMac1, I do not know how the leaders of America or the propagandized sheeple of America can sleep. America has been killing far more innocent unarmed women and children than Syria. Americans are slaves to propaganda to the point of insanity. American hypocrisy is so blatant it boggles the mind of anyone who has not drank the kool-aid.
Russia and China are communist government parties, they oppress the citizens in their own country. Have you heard of anyone trying to immigrate to Russia, China, or Syria?
syria is one sick country, they do it their way, the healhcare coming here will do it their way.
Yep. Good old Obamacare is finally rearing it's ugly head. Interesting discovery found and discussed yesterday. Starting this fall, all hospitals will receive ratings for the LENGTH they allow patients to stay in the hospital. Those hospitals with the shortest over night stays will be labeled as efficient under Obamacare. And those that allow a patient to stay one more day longer for the same type ailments will be scored as less efficient.
In so many ways this is wrong to reward hospitals for doing less and that equals a lot of dead people. Makes me want to throw up knowing this. Hope none of you get really sick.
WHO IS DECIDING HOW MUCH CARE YOU GET? THE DOCTOR OR THE GOVERNMENT? FOOLS THE LOT OF YOU FOR ALLOWING THIS ANIMAL INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.
Oh, good, I was wondering where the trolls were....
This is the result of misinformation and people with little thought processes of their own. In the medical system in place in this country, neither the government nor the Doctors decide how much or what type of health care you receive. That is strictly controlled by insurance companies. The first question you are asked when visiting a new Doctor is, "what health insurance do you have?" Your answer will determine the type of care you receive, or if you receive any care at all. If this is okay with you, letting a corporate entity that is concerned only with the bottom dollar determine whether you will get treated, or receive a life saving procedure, than you deserve what you get. If you want to see a fool, look in the mirror!
"all hospitals will receive ratings for the LENGTH they allow patients to stay in the hospital"
Just like you're going to have death panels, right? You're assuming this alleged ratings system means hospitals will start kicking sick people out to boost their rating. I hate to be the one to break the following two things to you: that's not what's going to happen, and hospitals already turn away the uninsured or less adequately insured sick under the current system.
Sincerely,
a Canadian doing just fine under my evil socialist medical dictatorship.
Same old S#@+ different day.Rich killing the poor.???????????Why ? because thy can. your house maybe next.
Rich killing the poor would be an honest title , cash.