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Subscribe to RSSThe Syrian army has continued to bombard at least half a dozen cities, despite the United Nations calling for an end to the violence. ITN's Bill Neely reports.
"A good number" of unmanned U.S. military and intelligence drones are operating in the skies over Syria, monitoring the Syrian military's attacks against opposition forces and innocent civilians alike, U.S. defense officials tell NBC News' Jim Miklaszewski.
The officials said this surveillance is not in preparation for U.S. military intervention. Rather, the Obama administration hopes to use the overhead visual evidence and intercepts of Syrian government and military communications in an effort to "make the case for a widespread international response," the officials told Miklaszewski.
Unlike in Libya, there has been no widespread international support for military intervention in the country. And while there has been some discussion among White House, State Dept. and Pentagon officials about possible humanitarian missions, U.S. officials fear that those missions could not be carried out without endangering those involved and would almost certainly draw the United States into a military role in Syria.
On Friday, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces renewed bombardment of the opposition stronghold of Homs and attacked rebels in Deraa, in blatant disregard of a U.N. resolution.
Demonstrations against Assad were reported by activists in several cities across Syria, including the capital Damascus and the commercial hub Aleppo, after Friday Muslim prayers, despite the threat of violence from security forces.
In a show of support for Assad, China's vice foreign minister, Zhai Jun, arrived in Damascus after the U.N. General Assembly passed a resolution telling the increasingly isolated president to halt the crackdown and surrender power.
China, along with Russia, had voted against the motion and says Syria must be allowed to resolve its problems without being dictated terms by foreign powers.
Related: Russia, China oppose UN General Assembly resolution on Syria
Its stance on Syria will "withstand the test of history," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said in Beijing.
Zhai said before leaving for Damascus: "China does not approve of the use of force to interfere in Syria or the forceful pushing of a so-called regime change."
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Friday that the UN General Assembly resolution showed an overwhelming consensus that Syria's bloody crackdown must end.
"So we will keep working to pressure and isolate the regime, to support the opposition and to provide relief to the people of Syria," Clinton said at a press conference.
Even as Zhai landed in Damascus, government forces pummeled opposition-held areas of the strategic western city of Homs, now under fire for two weeks.
In Deraa, a city on the Jordanian border where the revolt erupted nearly a year ago, explosions and machine gun fire echoed through districts under attack by troops, residents said.
Army tanks rolled through the streets of the conflict-torn city, even as regime forces categorically denied using them.
"We will not use them and we will win," a Syrian general in Deraa told ITN's Bill Neely.
The military has also opened a new offensive in Hama, a city with a bloody history of resistance to Assad's late father.
A doctor told Neely that a growing number of revolutionary troops are suffering head and neck wounds, proof that they are facing a well-trained enemy -- in many cases, defectors from their own ranks.
Protests continued in spite of the attacks, and one activist told Neely that Assad was doomed.
"One hundred percent he will go," the activist said.
The U.N. assembly vote in New York on Thursday showed Assad had few foreign sympathizers left. The vote went 137-12 in favour with 17 abstentions on a resolution endorsing an Arab League plan that calls for him to step down.
The assembly vote, unlike Security Council resolutions, has no legal force but it reflected global revulsion at the ferocity of the crackdown in which security forces have killed several thousand civilians since last March.
Assad portrays the opposition as foreign-backed terrorists and has promised reforms while rejecting the idea of surrendering power.
On Wednesday he announced a referendum on a draft constitution on Feb. 26 followed by a multi-party parliamentary election, a move swiftly dismissed the opposition and the West.
Assad told a visiting Mauritanian official on Friday that political reforms "have to march parallel with returning security and stability and protecting citizens," the state news agency said.
U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and other world leaders have decried the violence and are considering steps to get humanitarian aid to civilians suffering in embattled areas.
But the West has ruled out military intervention of the type that helped topple Moammar Gadhafi in Libya last year and must pin its hopes on a bringing together a fragmented opposition movement which includes activists inside Syria, armed rebels and politicians in exile.
The military intervention in Libya was possible due to widespread support within NATO and among the Arab Gulf States and also because of the lack of support for Gadhafi, which is not the case for Syria.
Reuters contributed to this report.
More from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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Does anybody smell something fishy?
Hungry - your girlfriend?
So the US is openly admitting to violating the sovereignty of the nation of Syria. I wonder how the administration is going to spin that when the Chinese and Russians start to protest. What is going on in Syria is an internal matter for the people of Syria. The US has no business getting involved. It still appears that more people support Assad then want him gone or else he would have been toppled by now. There is no justification for the US to try and promote a regime change in a sovereign nation just because the administration does not like the current leadership in that country.
Obama and Biden are flying over Syria?
JS - You go over there and fight Assad's tanks with a rifle. Good luck. We should arm the rebels.
yea those T-55 tanks break down at the sight of a lone gunman. lmao..... moonbase how many years active duty did you pull?
We don't need drones...we have really awesome satellites..drones are for close range surveillance and (kick your ass)..Oh...did I say that out loud
The only thing that bothers me about that...higher gas prices (stupid speculators)
Iran will be a parking lot (2013)...Maybe...I hope not
I wonder how the administration is going to spin that when the Chinese and Russians start to protest.
How about "We don't support murder of innocent civilians, do you?"
No EWUSNRET, just like your panties.
China and Russia are right. This is an internal issue within Syria. How has our inference in Egypt and Libya worked out? If you take out one regime, what comes next? Anything better? Apparently not.
Actually JS, those fine upstanding citizens supporting ASS-ad are just your run of the mill, obligatory government employee, suck holes who don't want their asses shot by their loving leader "Dr. Doom." As far as China and Russia (Frick & Frack) goes, I don't know why they even continue to belong to the UN, other than to continuously vote "NO" on every attempt to stop the blatantly obvious baby murdering and other heinous crimes against Humanity in Syria and other places. Take out ASS-ad's villas, government offices, and his personal banker and you'll see a change of heart. Personally, if we get Israel involved, I think Syria would be an excellent launching platform for overland attacks against Iran's back door! Now what'da ya think of THAT JS?............LOL...
If you take out one regime, what comes next? Anything better? Apparently not.
I guess democracy is bad when they choose governments you don't like.
The Imperial West needs to stay out of Syria and Syria's airspace.
Ahhhhh...... well small piece of confirmation. My second enlistment duty station USS Johnston DD 821 hull number. Feisty can tell you my name she like to post it online, thinking this independent will run. Sorry not going to do it....and just for the sake of history. I have a relatives buried at bunker Hill and and Gettysburg as well as a grandfather who was a SeaBee with the 3rd SeaBee battalion , which followed the 1st marine battalion onto the beach at Guadalcanal. My Father was a Navy vet of the Korean war serving as a corpsman with the 1st marine 5th div on the march across the Chosin Resv. My wifes father was also in the Army in Italy, although he was in the motorpool. Which is why he came back here to Detroit to work for Chrysler for 32 years. So ...yea I have some military background. Although Im sure Feisty or someone else who thinks anyone that dosent support the far left is a lying teabagger. If you read this Im 60 in March , she seems to think I graduated HS in 1976. Since Im a network engineer, I have proof that everything on the internet is the truth.
The post about violating Syria's sovereignty made me laugh. Because, you know, I give 2 flying f**ks about a Syria who arms terrorists and kills its own children with tank shells and sniper bullets on purpose.
Derek-
Then take your own colossal wealth and stop them yourself.
hezbollah (wealthy Syrians, Iranians) moved through Lebanon years ago..killed dozens of USMC soldiers & that was when things should have taken a Turn...blinded by the Light nonsense..Zzzzplane !!!......
Hello folks, War mongering is not a flattering view point or charming characteristic. We are Imperialist bullies around our planet. Here we go again invading another sovereign country. In our short time as a nation we have bombed over 60 countries. As a fellow blogger pointed out, “America, land of the free (that’s questionable), dictator to the rest of the world”. All of you who are so willing to want to start wars I doubt are willing to pack yourselves and your families up and head to the front lines. You act as if it’s a video game or an entertaining reality show. Do you have no conscience or respect for the sanctity of life? Or is your heart so cold that you see war as a necessary byproduct of our existence on earth? Who really wins in war, nobody, not even those sociopathic maniacs who think they do by profiting from it? Millions of people get physically and emotionally damaged by the atrocities of war. By condoning and supporting wars even though you don’t pull the triggers or drop the bombs are complicit in the deaths of innocent men, women, and children and bare responsibility for that action. Aren’t you worried that you will suffer the karmic repercussions for those actions?
If it's legal for the US to fly spy planes in a foreign airspace without that government's permission then is it legal for other countries to do it in the US?
Yeah, Jolly, you have an impressive pedigree. You were in the Navy during the Viet
Nam War, although you didn't explicitly mention it (your age gives it away).
Anyway....
I have mixed feelings about our involvement, however tangential, in the Syria situation. Yes, it is an internal conflict, and it could be said that the rebels and Assad's troops should settle it. On the other hand, the indiscriminate shelling of civilian neighborhoods and the death and destruction that goes along with it is unacceptable to civilized society. Assad, strangely enough, is fighting a war against his own country.
I think we should work with Turkey and the Arab countries in the area as far as providing intelligence to the rebels - possibly what the drones are in fact doing - but we DO NOT have any business in direct interference with this war.
The way it sounds, Assad has so alienated his countrymen that he will eventually be toppled. His army of 400,000 conscripts couldn't handle twenty million or whatever it is of pissed-off Syrians if they should happen to rise up en masse. And by the looks of things a lot of these conscripts are bailing and rising up themselves.
So let's just see what happens. If Assad gets dragged through the streets, well, that's what he gets for waging war against his own countrymen. I think he has already lost the war, which should piss China, Russia, and Iran off hard. And I'll be laughing when that happens.
JOlly
Who Cares about you or your family, The nonsense that comes from your piehole would make all the members in your family who have fought and died, turn over in there grave, They prolly wish your mom had an aspirin between her legs
Why are we so smug to think we are the ones who are ethically and morally in the right position to tell the world what is right for them? We are 310 million out of 7 billion who share this planet, we are no better or no worse than anyone else on the planet. But we feel we can do whatever we want to anybody we want to do it to.
Now you know why other countries feel like they have to defend their territory? They know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.
We have been fighting urban wars of attrition for over 10 years now and we are broke, our allies are broke. We have spent close to 3 Trillion dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can’t afford another expensive protracted war a half a world away and the US citizens are sick of war. There is 85% support for Ron Paul amongst our troops because they are sick of war and he’s promised to end the wars. The lengthy wars have depleted our manpower, equipment, and our political capital.
Last week the Census Department of the Federal Government reported that “50% of the nation’s population were living below the poverty line”. Our nation’s wealth has been exhausted by war so that we could secure profits for the Banking, Oil, and Military/Industrial cartels. We never saw a dime of it and never will because the 1% elite feel they have a Divine Right at our expense. You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses. They truly can’t squeeze much more from the peasantry but they will try.
Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger
I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Why would anyone believe videos taken by the united states? If I was a foreign country, I certainly wouldn't. You can bet your life they will show whatever the government wants them to show.
ex teaparty whatever
"Who Cares about you or your family" ...hahaha...I been thinking that about you since your first post...interesting
So, the one question left unanswered from this article is...Who voted against and who abstained? I really want to know this and I am sick of ADD news, after all...this might be the beginning of something real and I would like to know my enemy.
Also, MOONBASE, you are a foolish person who says foolish and frivolous things to get attention. To question the credibility of an anonymous poster...well that's just dumb.
Syria very much deserves our attention and you would see that if you weren't so wrapped up in political bias during an election cycle. It's about time we actually got off of our lazy asses and forced the world to comply with the accepted rules of humanity in developed nations.
I'm sick of death without a point and that is what ASSAD is doing. We need to get over this partisan divide and realize that we can change the world for the better if we actually come together rather than bickering about the best way to go about it.
I fought in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as Kosovo and I can tell you from experience that all they know is death.
They (The Syrian Gov't) are actively using TANKS and ROCKETS and ARTILLERY...so maybe we should even it out by running sorties on their more advanced weaponry.
Indiscriminate killing is terrorism and that is exactly what is happening in Syria. If we back down than we'll be looked at as fakers and manipulators...is that what you want? To be fake advocates for freedom? I hope not.
I believe that we need to help other IMMEDIATELY when they need it and not argue about whether it's right or wrong.
If Putin started killing his own dissenters than would we just watch? What about Jiabao?
WW3 is coming, whether you like it or not, and the world needs a severe reduction in population anyway, which is imminent at this point. I believe that if we don't step up and destroy tyranny RIGHT NOW than we'll be doomed to decades of war and death likened to the dark ages. I don't want that.
Please, stop fighting about what's best for your election chances and start fighting for the lives of innocents.
And all of this coming from a lefty...what say you? Am I the only lefty with balls to match my brains? I feel like it.
Several have commented that we should not get involved, that it's an internal afffair. Where would we be if the French had not come to our aid during the Revolutionary War. There would not have been a Yorktown and surrender of Cornwallis!! If you failed American History the French ships blockaded Yorktown from the sea while the American Colonials completed the circle on land. If not for French assisance we'd still be a colony of Great Britain! We should go to their assistance by using planes and drones to take out military targets.
And for any who might think Liberals don't believe in getting involved, I'm a LIBERAL and proud of it!
who is the man?
you make me laugh to. Welcome to the country of voting. You don't like it? Vote another way, and if you lose, leave.
Trust Verify So how would we be Imperialists or conquerors if we are stopping a mass murderer.. Guess we should have let Hitler do as he pleased because that was a European thing.. If you are so disillusioned with the US why don't you go live in Cuba or Russia.. Most American people want a peaceful stable planet.. You succumb to easily to the propaganda that says we are trying to conquer the Arabs as crusaders.. Show me where we claim any other country we were involved with as a conquered possession.. Assad has not protested so maybe he knows and just does not care..
TrustVerify:
Personally, I have never fought in a war or had to live through one in my homeland - though I would have gone if called upon. I am grateful for this. That said, I don't believe ANYONE likes war and fewer still crave it. You seem to believe that there is no reason to fight - even when the cause is just. You also seem to have it in for your own country and all it represents.
Some wars NEED to be fought. Others not so much. Imperialism is and was wrong but it did drag many lands into the new age and set them on the path to better socio-economic conditions. Many current nations prosper as a result of tyrannical despots being thrown out of power allowing the people to eventually thrive.
Ask any vet who fought in WWII if they did the right thing or have any regrets and they will tell you they had a job to do and they did it for future generations - so their own families could flourish. They paid a price as did the innocents in the vanquished countries but few would say the majority of Japanese and German people were non complicit to some extent in WWII.
Every nation must be prepared to fight a war in order to avoid being "devoured" by the bigger more aggressive nations out there. The west is finally picking and choosing its battles - something they have not been good at for the last fifty years.
If there was no NATO in place today do you really believe that Russia or China - or both - would have passively remained on the sidelines? They knew better. They were - and are still stopped from overt expansionism because of the threat posed by the US and its allies.
Crap happens, and these civil wars are usually where it begins and for the most part - ends. But I thank God that there are brave people out there who still stand up for theirs and for other peoples basic human rights - the greatest and most basic of those being freedom.
Your shot at the US not being a free society is so much swill - try offering your near treasonous opinions while blogging in Iran, Syria, Somalia, China or some other fair and free country out there.
There is a big difference between retaliation and invasion. Of the 60 countries bombed by the US, how many of them deserved a response in retaliation for some overt attack against them or an ally?
Pacifism is fine if you can speak the language of the aggressor who will now decide your rights. That makes it easier to blog in your new native tongue. Just be careful what you say.
Hello Roadrunnero and Oldport. It is obvious to me that we aren't fighting wars to save helpless defenseless people, we are set on world domination. We have over one thousand military bases around the world. Our military budget is more than the world's combined. We have bombed over 60 countries, killed and displaced millions of people.
We went into Iraq and Libya because they went away from the petro dollar and were using other forms of currency to sell their oil.
General Wesley Clark: "America will take out 7 countries in 5 years"
According to Former NATO supreme allied commander, former presidential candidate and 4 star US General Wesley Clark that they had received a memo that America is going to take out 7 countries in the Middle East in 5 years starting with Iraq, Libya, Syria Lebanon Sudan and Somalia.
It is obvious that our government is following that play book. You can believe in all the hype the presstitutes spew out and the propaganda our government doles out but actions speak louder than words.
We are going into Syria for a couple of reasons, one, we are trying to dislodge Russia from there because they have a foothold in the Middle East via two military bases in Latakia and Tartus in Syria. Two, Syria is a strong ally of Iran. If we invade Syria we take out a strong ally and maybe incite Iran to assist giving the U.S. the reason they are looking for to attack Iran. The ultimate goal is to surround, weaken and to invade Iran. The petro dollar is at stake as other countries are switching to other forms of currency in buying Iran’s oil and the U.S. can't have that.
Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..
War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
To BOB in Dallas...you wrote a comment about, "the Imperial West"...so, please explain to us common folk what you mean by the word "Imperial". I thought Imperial usually meant things regarding an empire, or in other words, the ruling authority of a sovereignty over it's dependencies. Since I cannot think of any territorial expansion, or unwilling takover of land by ANY country in "the West" in quite some time...I actually believe that "the West" has given back land, territories, colonies, etc...I think it's safe to conclude that you are quite ignorant....and are just another hater.
Well...., No one can really tell an "Eagle" where It can fly.
Well no mac, but if he gets too near your chickens, a side by side with #4 shot will likely assure that he will not continue to do it.
Here's the fate of Syria (only much worse) if the "rebels" win. I'm not a big fan of the current regime in Syria but it's better than this:
FEBRUARY 16, 2012
Amnesty International Says "Out of Control" Libyan Militias Are Commiting Widespread Abuses Against Suspected Al-Gaddafi Loyalists, Including Torture and Killings
Amnesty International Representatives Visiting Detention Facilities Witnessed Abuse and Injuries from Torture; Entire Communities Were Forcibly Displaced
(New York) -- Armed militias are operating lawlessly across Libya, commiting widespread human rights abuses that are fuelling insecurity and blocking the rebuilding of government institutions, Amnesty International said in a new report today released on the one-year anniversary of the uprising.
The report, Militias Threaten Hopes For New Libya, documents serious abuses, including war crimes, by militias against suspected al-Gaddafi loyalists. Amnesty International reports cases of people being unlawfully detained and tortured-- sometimes to death.
African migrants and refugees are also being targeted and revenge attacks are being carried out. Entire communities have been forcibly displaced and authorities have done nothing to investigate the abuses and hold those responsible to account.
"Militias in Libya are largely out of control and the blanket impunity they enjoy only encourages further abuses and perpetuates instability and insecurity," said Donatella Rovera, senior crisis response adviser at Amnesty International.
"A year ago Libyans risked their lives to demand justice. Today their hopes are being jeopardized by lawless armed militias who trample human rights with impunity. The only way to break with the entrenched practices of decades of abuse under Colonel al-Gaddafi's authoritarian rule is to ensure that nobody is above the law and that investigations are carried out into such abuses."
In January and early February, Amnesty International representatives visited 11 detention facilities in central and western Libya used by various militias. At 10 of the facilities, detainees said they had been tortured or ill-treated and showed Amnesty International researchers injuries resulting from recent abuse. Several detainees said they had confessed to rape, killings and other crimes they had not committed just to end the torture.
At least 12 detainees held by militias have died after being tortured since September. Their bodies were covered in bruises, wounds and cuts and some had had nails pulled off.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/amnesty-international-says-out-of-control-libyan-militias-are-commiting-widespread-abuses-against-su
@ I Wonder: Yeah, thats generally the way it goes, unless the Eagle spots you first and drops a couple of turds down the barrels of your piece before you fire. That part ain't so good.
Derek -
You vote Republican: Overthrow Iraq; occupy Iraq and Afghanistan for a years.
You vote Democrat: Overthrow Libya; drone bomb anyone anywhere.
Several people don't like it and they aren't going to be part of a mass exodus.
FEBRUARY 18-19, 2012
Hypocrisy and Syria
by ALEXANDER COCKBURN
FEBRUARY 17-19, 2012
by ALEXANDER COCKBURN
Few spectacles have been more surreal than senior US officials – starting with the President, the Secretary of State and the US ambassador to the UN – solemnly lecturing Assad and his beleaguered Syrian government on the need to accommodate rebel forces whose GCC sponsors are intent on slaughtering the ruling Alawite minority or driving them into the sea.
At one grimly hilarious moment last Friday, these worthy sermons were buttressed by a message from Ayman al-Zwahiri, the head of al-Qaeda, therefore presumably the number one target on President Obama's hit list, similarly praising the 'Lions of Syria' for rising up against the Assad regime. Al-Qaeda and the White House in sync!
The last time the United States faced serious internal dissent was in the 1960s and early 1970s, from war resisters and black and Native American movements. The government responded instantly with a methodical program of violent repression, including a well-documented agenda of assassination…
….Civil war in Syria would be of a brutality and level of bloodshed far beyond what is transpiring in Libya – as veterans of Lebanon's civil war that lasted from 1975 to 1990, or of the sectarian bloodletting in Iraq in 2006-07, can attest.Civil war in Syria would be of a brutality and level of bloodshed far beyond what is transpiring in Libya – as veterans of Lebanon's civil war that lasted from 1975 to 1990, or of the sectarian bloodletting in Iraq in 2006-07, can attest.….
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/17/hypocrisy-and-syria/
Cockburn???? Cockburn???............... Hmmmmm. Don't think I would trust anyone calling themselves that. Probably went out of His head with pain at some point. Might still be, you know, outta his head.
Hello Arch, thank you for your insightful observations regarding the turmoil and resultant repercussions as a result of the military and political activity occurring in our name in Asia. I wish people could find it in their hearts to see beyond the propaganda and stand up for the rights of the innocent people who get decimated for political and monetary gain. Thanks again!
Why does America start wars in March? It seems that around March 19th or so is when we start military agression against other countries. I wonder if it has anything to do with the spring solstice.
That's probably why we have to take over Syria soon that way we can attack Iran in Mid March.
I'm just sure these drones will also be used to document violence started by protesters too and the footage won't be edited in any way to further our governments agenda of interference in matters that are none of our business. /sarc
TrustVerify:
You keep mentioning that the US will be invading Syria. There is no evidence of that. The drones have probably been flying above Syria for some time now and probably places we haven't heard about yet. That's what the sneek and peeks do so we can all sleep better at night. Have some warm milk ;-)
It should be obvious why the US has not intervened. A civil war in Syria meets our objectives in terms of reducing their ability to support and supply guns and supplies to organized armed groups in Lebanon and the Gaza strip. Those groups will be vastly weakened and unable to perform armed actions as before. In a way, this civil war is a pay back for their interferance in other countries that was none of their business.
I find it comforting to know that Americans will use the slaughter in Syria as a platform to launch political attacks.
This isnt about Obama, Tea Party, Liberals, Republicans, or your mothers cat. This is about a mad man using tanks to kill civilians. Im sorry if America is the only country willing to stand up for the rights of the little man. Personally, im proud to be an American, to have served in her military, to be part of a solution as opposed to being some prick denouncing our country on a blog.
Oh and most of you dont know anything about Syria. The reason why we WONT attack Syria is because Russia has a military base there. Even Obama isnt stupid enough to attack a country with a Russian military base.
Attack Syria, don't attack Syria. Why is that a debate amongst us? Republicans, Democrats, who cares? Both represent big business dollars and the military-industrial complex. When the equation of "national interests" (notice how the security has disappeared these days?) and money balances in the favor of intervention, the US, and possibly NATO, will do it.
On a different note...doesn't anyone see the Karma in this one? What Syria did in and to Lebanon, they are now experiencing at their own hands. Wow. Once the Middle East settles, they will be the ones to support "change" in Russia. Let us just hope that what we have done is not then done to us. Every society has debate and contention. Upheaval anywhere can happen with enough outside money, influence, and maybe arms. The "Democratic leaders" are now at the maybe arms point in interference.
Just like US politics, there is rarely a side worthy of support. You have been fed the ridiculous question of whether we are to support killing we control, or killing we do not control. All of you are now participating in that debate.
This is getting creepy.
Monitoring our airspace and flying a drone into a foreign country's airspace to monitor them are two different things.
Big brother is getting bolder. This does not bode well for us.
More like, Mission Kreepy. Even better terms: MISSION NONSENSE, MISSION BUSYBODY.
It's one thing to watch us in the USA (in public places) but to watch foreign nationals in a foreign country with equipment that has outright violated their airspace?
That is wrong.
Not for anyone who thinks he has a global mandate.
Both are wrong.
Did you know (Ruken)...they want to fly them in the US...for our benifit...Screw that...I have my protection
That's because low flying, noisy Police helicopters are obsolete. /sarc/
big mac, tinfoil hats have been shown to be of little protection against drones.
@ Ruken : That you would imply that the worst of the two was the use of such military hardware to spy on Americans is pretty tragic. Worse still is how many in this country will stand outside and wave at said drones while going on about how cool their missiles look and how their bleeding edge targeting systems could take their heads off from a mile up.
With that said, for this country to have its village idiot Clinton publicly vowing to ignore the fact that she has no UN mandate to contribute ANY military assistance to Syrian rebels, and for this country to already have military hardware in the skies above Syria again without UN mandate, should show any who are not committed to lying to themselves that the UN is nothing but another Western puppet. Just like the World Bank and the IMF.
If anyone bothered to watch the French President Sarkovky, who condemned the attacks by Assad (as they should be) said:
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16171530
The Western powers have proved that they do not understand or really care about the middle east unless there is something in it for them.
Syria will only have the freedom it wants when a true Syrian winner is in control.
I hope that Syria decides, not a drone, not a puppet government - this does not mean that I don't care about the Syrian people who are dying, it just means that their death should be for the Syria that THEY want - not what the West wants.
Before you talk about drones - look at how the US has bombed Yemen - more in the Obama years than in the Bush years, yet we never hear of our atrocities. Last week, one family in Yemen lost 17 people, another family 7 people - when asked by BBC news - (since the terrorist was never bombed) - the town's people had no idea, they where a Bedouin community with no ties to "terror." The news that reported this (Link TV) had a reporter on the scene - he stated the US has been bombing Yemen with Tomahawk missiles for two years - but it's never reported in our news.... the US needs to wake up, we are the terrorists, we are making terrorists because we kill so many innocent people, and like Israel, we fail to admit the mistake or make amends. I'm not religious but a person and a country reap what it sows.... we now have more people who hate us and it's only our fault.
http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/7801-obama-steps-up-secret-us-war-in-yemen
The truth is that Yemen has asked us to take out a few confirmed terrorists and we used drone attacks and did get quite a few top wackos.. The cruise missile attacks are bogus Taliban propaganda so you believe it if you want.. They do not want these fighters in their country either because they kill civilians.. Qaddafi had tried this tactic, getting bodies from the morgue and of course all these fighters become innocent civilians for the camera..
Some areas of Los Angelies and New York are worse than Beruit and the police are afraid to go there.. How long do you think it will be before the Constitution will be ammended to alow the military to effect martial law in those places..
Why bother flying a whole bunch of drones over Syria if we have no intention of ever undertaking any military action there? Monitoring what is happening on the ground for what purpose? Are we giving the info gathered to the rebels? If so, like Libya, how do we know that assisting the rebels to oust Assad will be in our national security interests? In the meantime, we run the risk that the drones will be shot down or jammed down and fall into the wrong hands (like recently happened in Iran). Best to send those drones over Iran to gather intell to be used on the preemptive strike.
And conducting military operations in another country, without their permission, is an act of war.
Because we need to have overwhelming evidence of what is taking place there...take it to the U.N., the Arab League, Russia and China. While it would be foolish for the U.S. to get involved, at least unilaterally, we CAN use our resources to shed light on what is taking place there to the entire world....hopefully encouraging action.
The Arab League inspectors saw it first hand and had to bug out of there for fear of their own safety. And drones are not needed, but satellites and individuals on the ground can do the same without risking drone intelligence.
But I would suggest that the drones are being used for more than meets the eye. Particularly if a strike on Iran is not far off.
I think they want to gather intelligence on Syrian troop movements to use in any trials for "crimes against humanity". Though Lord knows we have enough footage of our own.
Does the U.S. Congress not exist anymore? If the American people feel passionately enough about what's going on over there, let's at least have the sensibility of taking these matters to our own representatives.
Stu the U.N. already knows whats going on in Syria. Its the U.N.'s job to monitor whats going on in Syria not the United States.
Is the U.N. paying the United States? I thought we were supposed to be cutting the Military's budget by 600 Billion dollars but now we have the money to fly drones over Syria and take pictures?
This is costing U.S. taxpayers money. Don't we have better things to spend that money on like say Welfare, food stamps, etc. IDK maybe paying down our 15 trillion dollar dept.
The way I see is if the Syrians are getting killed by their leader what can more wrong. You really cant get any more wrong than that. If you was the leader of a country and you had to kill over 6000 people to get them to shut up and let you rule something is probably not right. However yes the ME is more violent than America they made us violent. We use to be like the nerd that would not say anything when some one slapped him behind the head. Now we need to make a statement that if you ever send terrorist to our nation again we will do this again for another 15 years. Instead of us living in fear the terrorist producers need to be living in fear. If there is anyone who thinks that no we can live peacefully without making a statement you are wrong. If we are not over there fighting then we will have to fight here. That is the only two options no in between. God Bless The USA and our military. Thank our boys for the service to the country.
But the US is the UN and if asked by Moon we would comply because unarmed drones doing surveillance under UN mandate would not violate international law just Syrian law.. Kind of like getting a warrant to do surveillance on criminals here in the US..
This is a real a Massacre, I thought the Israelis were the bad ones in the middle east but didnt know even my Muslim Brothers syrian Gov can be so evil to this extence! This is not Islam at all! this Assad Gov / Army do not have any faith or Moral conscious and they should not be consider Muslim Brothers and should be destroyed for their brutality and agression against civilians.
NO RELIGION ON EARTH TARGET CIVILIAN WITH TANKS AND MACHINE GUNS. THOSE ASSAD BOUTCHERS ARE NOT HUMAN AT ALL AND MUST BE STOP AT ALL COST
BTW, here is a bit of very interest news
A bipartisan group of US Senators has introduced a Resolution backing the use of US military force to stop Iran from building nukes. One a Dem.(Chris Coons), saying,"We will end their nuclear weapons program". You can see the video on Fox's website. Very strong language being used by the Senators. I wonder if Obama, quietly, asked for the introduction of the Resolution so as to send a very strong signal to Iran? This is moving very rapidly. If I were Iran I'd go to immediate concessions and allow full inspections of all facilities and interviews with all personnel. Last call!!!
Ooooo, not good news. But it might push Iran to the table. I hope so.
That is what Obama is hoping. But it doesn't matter whether or not they agree to more talks. What matters is whether or not they are willing to reach a workable deal and stick to it. And on that score, it is not very likely. If there are any "talks" they will be more stall tactics.
You know what? At least Israelis kill us Palestinians... and they are occupying forces that we MUST fight and defeat.... When they kill our brothers and sisters and children, we shrug our shoulders and say:"eh... well, they are Israelis... heartless enemy..."
What will those poor Syrians say when their neighbors kill them?????
To start with, the ruling people are Nusayries.... this is an extreme shia sect that even shiites consider them non-Muslims.... So they are similar to Israeli Jews who kill innocent Palestinian Muslims...
'nuf said!
The Palestinians brought it on themselves.
Pretty much, yeah. And then they cry wolf whenever their suicide bombers get waxed.
Don't know what kinds dope you smoke... so no comment...
Homemade Hashish.
Ewusnret- "The Palestinians brought it on themselves."
You sound like when the Nazis said the Jews brought it on themselves.You and they are/were both wrong.
Palestinian American,
Those are the results when you refuse to make peace with someone under any conditions and have as your stated "goal" the total destruction of said nation.
I'm a Syrian and I think the way you put it is kinda silly. The American commentors are discussing the subbject from purely American viewpoint and have not made any comparison between Assad's regime and Israel.
Secondly, can't you notice that those so-called unarmed civilians are defecting from the Syrian Army with their weapons and shooting at the regular Syrian Army? Of course this cannot be tolerated by any government.
It is true that the protests started in Syria for a legitimate reason back in March 2011 (when people from Deraa took the streets) for the fact that some kids have been detained without any justification. BUT what followed was a well-organized Western and GCC-packed movement for people to uprise and confront the government.
The Arab League and/or UN should be paying the US for these services! This @!$%# aint free!
Here, here, well said. Cough up the dough!!!
Actually, they (Saudis) are paying for it, and the Russians and the Chinese know it.
There we go ...invasion of air space for peaceful reasons ???
Sounds like reconnaissance for a 'widespread international response" like we saw in Libya. Complete BS
A good question to ask would be 'why acknowledge the drones are there, and why acknowledge it now?' Could it possibly be to let Assad know that he is being watched and that there is real proof (real time even!) for the world to see? And knowing, Assad may back off, even backing off some would save lives and be helpful to ordinary citizens.
Good insight.
Of course. An altruistic strategy on the world stage. Brilliant.
A lot going on in the world these days. Will the powers that rule be able to avert WWlll? We shall see.
WWIII started Sept. 11, 2001.
like your name!
The Arabs respect bravery and honesty, sorry Barry
Ohh Bill--Barry Nailed Bin Laden. Forget that did you???
bornagain - Do you really think that invading a sovereign nation without warning to publicly assassinate a scumbag like bin laden is a foreign policy that the US should promote?
our tax dollars at work -
"China does not approve of the use of force to interfere in Syria or the forceful pushing of a so-called regime change."
As long as its someone else besides China doing it. China doesn't seem to have any problems using military force when its suits there goals such as when they invaded Tibet in 1951 and abolished the Tibetan government.
" China doesn't seem to have any problems using military force when its suits there goals such as when they invaded Tibet in 1951 and abolished the Tibetan government."
The issue of Tibet is complicated.For ages Tibet was a part of Chinese Empires.Then during the 19th century,Britain and Russia,trying to expand their colonial Empires,attempted to separate Tibet from China,and recognized Tibet as an independent country,so they could control it.But China has never accepted that Independence,and never will.After the founding of the PRC,and China threw off the foreign control of China,they regained Tibet.Even our friend Taiwan,that calls itself the Republic of China has never accepted Tibet as anything but a part of China.
If China has used military force in Tibet - then that's a one time incident, unlike USA who is using excessive military force for any absurd reason, for Oil, for Israel, for the sake of cold war, because the president was grumpy, or because Mr. Clinton was not getting anything the night before, etc etc.
This is a serious violation of foreign airspace. Just imagine our counterparts in Mexico could do the same thing. Why is our government so obsess with foreign countries and spend little in our own broken economy and dysfunctional society that we live in.
That's a brilliant strategy employed by the US military. After the snub by China and Russia, US's use of u-n-m-a-n-n-e-d drone clearly can bring about a military solution without the use of the military personnel per se. www.sci-burr.com regards this strategy as a unique way to find a resolution to the problem without being physically involved. This technological war will change the way wars are fought. Bravo!
Totally agree AT. We simply need look to the al-Qaeda terrorists. Don't see them on the tube anymore. Why? Too busy hiding in a cave....the drones have ruined their fake bravado. Tech outperforms threats and random bombings.
Actually they're too busy hoisting their flags over Libya to wave at the cameras right now. But if you'll be so kind as to wait until that's done, they'll be sure to acknowledge you from the kiosk they'll use to cash their US checks as soon as they touch down on our C-130s within convenient striking range of Syria.
Or did you really think AlQ really needs to "hide" from the country that has organized it, funded it, and employed it countless times since the Soviet war with Afghanistan and the installation of the puppet Shah in Iran in the 70's?
Geez. When I saw a video of American HS kids so dumb they couldn't name the war we won our independence in and couldn't find Iran on a world map I thought it was an isolated phenomenon. It's not. It's a full on movement. A regular Commitment to Idiocy.
Kids dont need to know where the country we are fighting. We have GPS that will take our planes and troops to fight. All they need know is how to fight. Nuff said
Those drones are useful against countries without much of an air defense,only.I remember when we used the U2 to spy against the Soviet Union and other flights over Cuba.Those were working good until they started to get shot down.
We are saying to Assad that when he tells the world that he isn't using brute force and killing innocent civilians we are taking videos and intercepting communications that dispel his lies. While it is true we are violating their air space I think Assad needs to know that the world is going to shine a light on his brutality and the pressure will become such that he will be forced to change his ways or be driven out.
(((Yawn)))
Opps.... Thought I was hitting the camera buttion but hit the anti tank missle button by mistake. Can I help it if all the other drone piliots did the same thing out of reflexes. Oh and what a shame for some reason they seemed to go to the area that Asad just happen to be in. What are the odds of that !
Drones are freakin awesome and we are once again the superior military power. What will countries do when a swarm of these things armed with 10 missiles each come for you? Without some biological organism to contend with, they will eventually fly mach 7 and 80,000 ft and be able to pull 10 Gs. A human-piloted plane is no match. This is just the beginning - imagine a fleet of remotely driven ATVs with cameras and high caliber machine guns. Human soldiers will be meaningless.
The irony. There is a current mandate for 30K of these "freakin awesome" drones to be over THIS country by 2015 just passed and being squared away with the FAA right now.
So definitely - great question. What will countries do? By the way, what have you decided?
People here seem to know a lot of foreign countries but nobody seems to have any strategy for our broken economy. I guess fighting is our compassion and fixing our own economy is just not our problems.
...the subject at hand is drones over Syria...
bill b l
Obama and Biden are flying over Syria?
++++++
Bill,
No, they are talking about a different type of "drone."
An interesting point that I would make is that by sending these aircraft over Syrian airspace without their permission, we have already commited an act of war against Syria under law. It is a technical point I realize. It is however a point the Syrians will use to their advantage in making their case against us to their muslim neighbors. I also doubt that our news media ever talls us the whole truth about these types of situations or that they tell us any real truth at all.
This is why the world hates Obama. Can you say Nobel Peace Prize recall?
Actually the rest of the world loves him. Go check out some posts on international sites.
Obama's foreign policy has been and continues to be a strong suite. Stop hating.
AMEN dsb.
Road Warrior:
The whole world DOS"NT hate OBAMA, just racists in this country.
yeh, obama and country are really respected. The EU told gethner and obama to fix our own economy before they made recommendations about europes debt crises. China pretty much told obama what he could do about trying to influence chinas economy as well. Then we have obama throwing mubareck to the wolves by saying he must go. Bet that made our arab allies think twice about what support obama would give them down the road. Interesting on how obama exceeded the UN resolutiion for enforcing a no fly zone over libya by expanding it to an air to ground support for libyan rebels.
Didn't obama travel to india and asia in 2010 to promote US trade policy and meet with little success? Telling the russian populace to protest how domestic elections were held in russia, that was such a diplomatic coup right? Then we have obama wanting to violate our SOFA aggreement with iraq to keep US troops in iraq after dec 31, 2011. Such a sweetheart obama is. No wonder why iraq told him NO!
Obviously hate is the wrong word. Lack of respect for what and how he wants to promote his foreign policy agenda is a better discription. If you detested bush2's foreign policy how can you say that obama's is better?
LOL....Obama is Bush III. He goes to war at every opportunity, agreeing to send cruise missiles into Libya. Tall about the world's bully. Afghanistan three more years and continuing and 1200 more body bags. Drones into sovereign nations without their permission. The only reason I can see why the world might love him is because they see him as a tool to bring down the US. On domestic issues, he is an extension of Bush also. Extended the left's hated tax cuts for the rich, Patriot Act, Gitmo, $6 trillion debt in four years, Halliburton no-bid contracts, handguns in national parks, ObamaCare. As for Bush pandering to the corporations, how do you supposed Obama is getting the nearly billion for his campaign. He is bought and paid for just like Bush. I hated Bush and didn't vote for him. And if you are honest to yourself, you would hate Obama, too.
Road Warrior - Well said my friend... they are all after war for the sake of oil, arms deals and to show their muscles to the world. However, now Russia and China have got lots of money (Cash money and gold) in their hands than the US could imagine.
Rami from Syria
Depending on which kind of "drone" is being used, it may not necessarily be directly over Syria but adjacent to it. I would be there are more than "drones" monitoring the situation. :-)
I'm a big Obama supporter but I don't like this. What makes this so odd is that we actually admitted it. Why? Thing like this are only leaked for a reason. I suppose it's so they can publize the photos but it sure fees wrong. I feel for the Syrian people but for goodness sake let the Arab League handle it.
If we interfer we'll be damned by half of the world, and if we don't we'll be damned by the other half. For once I say let's go with the last half. We are constantly slammed for sticking our nose in to other countries business. Let the rest of the world give it a go without us for once. Maybe next time we put American lives and tax dollars on the line for their sorry a$$es they will appreciate it.
Thank God you are not in charge of anything. You are as dumb as Obama
Sammy
So what branch of the military are you in? I assume by your post that you are in favor of some sort of attack. Will you be in the first wave?
Gladly, I have spent many years working in the Middle East and I know how these people think. If you give them any chance you are dead and headless
The Arab League is taking the lead on this. The UN action most of the world is supporting is mainly their work. We are not leading any charge into Syria....not yet.
Well, my husband is in Iraq right now. So forgive me if I'm not too keen on a war right now.
And for your information, we've spent a few years there too. Funny thing, 99% of the people I met were not much different than us. Didn't care for the Kuwait folks though. Very, very arrogant.
"Gladly, I have spent many years working in the Middle East and I know how these people think. If you give them any chance you are dead and headless."
Unless your talking about you were in Israel.Why would you work in,and among people,you so obviously hate.Now if you were a military contractor leeching off the misery of one of those countries,that might explain their hostility to you.
Drones are a violation of human rights a crime against humanity. Judge, jury and executioner at your finger tips. i'll be "BACK" !
You should leave the country in protest. That will fix us good
Yes; whichever country you're in right now, leave in protest.