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Subscribe to RSSThousands of Afghans protested against the unintentional burning of Qurans and other Islamic religious materials during trash disposal at an American air base. NBC's Atia Abawi reports.
Updated at 2:40 p.m. ET: KABUL, Afghanistan -- Thousands of angry Afghans protested outside a U.S. military base on Tuesday, some hurling rocks and firing guns in the air, after reports surfaced that American troops had burned copies of the Quran and other religious items.
The demonstrators — shouting "Die, die, foreigners!" — gathered outside Bagram airbase, an hour's drive north of the capital Kabul. Photographs taken by the AFP news agency outside the airbase, showed people firing slingshots and others holding charred copies of the Quran, Islam's holy book.
"The people are very angry. The mood is very negative," said Zia Ul Rahman, deputy provincial police chief. "Some are firing hunting guns in the air, but there have been no casualties."
"We Afghans don't want these Christians and infidels, they are the enemy of our soil, our honor and our Quran," said Haji Shirin, one of the protesters.
Qais Usyan / AFP - Getty Images
More than a decade after the beginning of the war, Afghanistan faces external pressure to reform as well as ongoing internal conflicts.
"I urge all Muslims to sacrifice themselves in order to pull out these troops from this soil."
U.S. helicopters fired flares to disperse the crowd.
Seeking to quickly tamp down the outrage, the White House apologized for the burning of Muslim holy books in a pile of garbage at Bagram.
PhotoBlog: Afghans besiege US base in protest over Quran burning
Press secretary Jay Carney said the "deeply unfortunate incident" doesn't reflect the respect the U.S. military has for the religious practices of the Afghan people.
Carney echoed military officials Tuesday in saying that the Quran burning happened unintentionally, and that an investigation was being undertaken to ensure it didn't happen again.
The top NATO general in Afghanistan, Gen. John Allen, also apologized. He said religious materials, including Qurans, that were identified for disposal were inadvertently taken to an incineration field at the airfield.
"Along with our apology to the Afghans is our certainty and assurance to them, that these kinds of incidents, when they do occur, will be corrected in the fastest and most appropriate manner possible," Allen said in a statement. "We've been shoulder to shoulder with the Afghans for a long time. We've been dying alongside the Afghans for a long time because we believe in them; we believe in their country, and we want to have every opportunity to give them a bright future."
Allen said he has also directed all coalition forces in Afghanistan to complete training in the proper handling of all religious materials by March 3.
A military official with knowledge of the incident told The Associated Press the Muslim holy books had been removed from a library at a nearby detention center because they contained extremist messages or inscriptions. He said it appeared the Qurans and other Islamic readings were being used to fuel extremism, and detainees apparently were leaving notes for one another inside them.
Thousands of Afghans rallied outside a U.S. military base over a report that foreign troops had improperly disposed of copies of the Quran, including some being burned. NBC's Natalie Morales reports.
The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the incident.
'Very angry'
Roshna Khalid, the provincial governor's spokeswoman, said Qurans were burned inside Bagram, citing accounts from local laborers.
"The laborers normally take the garbage outside and they found the remains of Qurans," she said.
Ahmad Zaki Zahed, chief of the provincial council, said U.S. military officials gave him about 30 Qurans and other religious books that were recovered before they were destroyed.
"Some are burned. Some are not burned," Zahed said, adding that the books were used by detainees once incarcerated at the base.
Latest killer of Afghan children: Hunger
The materials were in trash that two soldiers with the U.S.-led coalition transported in a truck late Monday night to a pit where garbage is burned on the base, according to Zahed, who spoke with five Afghans working at the pit.
He said that when the workers noticed the religious books in the trash, they stopped the disposal process.
Bagram also houses a prison for Afghans detained by American forces. The center has caused resentment among Afghans because of reports of torture and ill-treatment of suspected Taliban prisoners, with President Hamid Karzai demanding the transfer of prisoners to Afghan security.
Shah Marai / AFP - Getty Images
Afghan protesters throw stones toward U.S. soldiers standing at the gate of Bagram airbase during a protest Tuesday.
NYT: Afghan girls pay price for elders' misdeeds
Protests raged for three days across Afghanistan in April after a U.S. pastor burned a Quran in Florida. Eleven people were killed when demonstrators stormed a U.N. compound in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, including seven foreign U.N. workers. Another riot in the southern city of Kandahar left nine dead and more than 80 wounded.
Meanwhile, NATO said three coalition service members have been killed in a roadside bombing in southern Afghanistan. It did not give any other details about Tuesday's deaths.
Massoud Hossaini / AFP - Getty Images
A demonstrator holds a copy of the Quran allegedly set alight at Bagram airbase.
So far this year, 47 NATO service members have been killed in Afghanistan.
Earlier, NATO reported that a fourth service member died Tuesday as a result of a non-battle related injury, also in the south.
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- Afghan's sorrow: Cruel winter claims lives of children
- Barack Obama and Lyndon Johnson honored in Puerto Rico
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The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
Someone please tell me why our soldiers have too much time on their hands? Burning books? Trying to keep warm perhaps? The Quran or Koran. Where did they come from, and why are our foot soldiers involved in this? .... You have three priorities in war, keep you weapon clean, protect the soldier next to you, and finally protect yourself. Burning books?
They were burning bibles just a few yrs ago, seems like our military is always being ordered to burn holy books..
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2009%2FWORLD%2Fasiapcf%2F05%2F20%2Fus.military.bibles.burned%2F&ei=tmVDT7yfLKfZ0QHb-NjSBw&usg=AFQjCNE1rAuEHUwKh0MuwTa231GaUxjXTg&sig2=6RadR2WeSAwed-s483hb1A
Sam, question is WHO gave the orders to do so? And if that is a 'nobody' than remove all US troops immediately from Afghanistan. Hope they can carry their weapons, on the way out, instead of a field pack full of books!
A crowd of Afghans protesting outside the main U.S. military base in Afghanistan swelled to more than 2,000 Tuesday over a report that foreign troops had improperly disposed of copies of the Quran, Afghan officials said.
Stay away from their religious beliefs. They already hate us as it is. Trying to be respectful is not asking too much, is it? The same that we are asking the Republicans here: Stay away from religion.
Oh, @!$%#. I'm not trying to be funny here. Does anyone realize what implications this crude act could have?
Such things like this makes me think that the Muslims and the Westboro Baptist Church have more in common than they'd like to admit.
What are they going to do marlane, hate us? And if you really knew what was in the Quran I don't think you would be so outraged.
Islam and Judaism used to be one and the same. The Jews progressed with time and left the muslims to tradition. And we all know Christ was a Jew, so there you have it, Chris Wanker.
Mr Steady, what is in the Quaran, and the Bible are things written before man knew what an atom or a germ were. The sad thing is that modern man of ALL faiths still believe these things that lack logic. It's all about controlling the masses for the benefit of the top 1% of ANY society.
Come on marlane.....at least show a little bit of knowledge of the subject.......
Judaism pre-Christ
Muslims----not in existence till over 600 years after Christ.
Judaeism was first and Islam and Chritianity stemmed from that. My point is they are all intermingled and yet we are all fighting.
Marlane.... progress means move forward... Judaism has remained the same for over 3000 years? Don't get me wrong, nothing against the Jew, I find fault with YOUR statement on progress. Christianity grew out of, moved forward, from Judaism roughly 2000 years ago and Islam progressed about 1200 years ago. Judaism has maintained its TRADITIONS while Islam and Christianity have changed many of them. SOOOO there you have it marlane. (and Chris and I rarely get along including his statement about Muslims and Westboro.)
Just wondering when all the adherents of the religion of peace will apologize for the Muslims who misuse the koran. Seems to me that the greater concern is all the death and violence caused by those who say they get their orders from the koran. Why is there more outrage over some understandably upset soldiers or preachers burning the book than over those who use the book to kill innocent people. As I said, just wondering.
I give the Afghans credit. Our government officials can crap all over us and we the people do nothing.
Mr. Steady --
I know EXACTLY what is in the Qur'an because I can read Arabic, and I don't find anything particularly disturbing. Some of it is quite good, some is fascinating because it refers to science only recently understood, and there are bits about the rights of women and children that is quite progressive. Unlike the Bible, which tells women to shut up and tells parents to beat their children.
Holy books cannot be held responsible for the fact that many who claim them don't follow them. In the case of the Bible that's a good thing. In the case of the Qur'an, not so much.
Most of all, I'm tired of our military recruiting terrorists. God only knows how many young Muslim men have been recruited on the actions of our undisciplined, out-of-control, juvenile delinquents erroneously called soldiers. Our military doesn't fight for us, it fights AGAINST us and on the side of al-Qaeda.
Let me ask you this: suppose those Abu Ghraib photos had been of American men. That naked pyramid--just suppose those had been Americans. Would you have fought for them? Would you have used any weapon available to you to kill the sick b@stards who did that to Americans?
I would, and I'm an old lady. What do you think is the reaction of a 20-something testosterone-laden young man in the Middle East?
Who knows how many acts of terrorism can be attributed directly to our so-called military. Then they use the excuse that people are fighting back to commit even more atrocities.
Bring the chickens home to roost. They are doing nothing that is good, and we're the ones who deserve them because we created them, God help us all.
Fine, they can burn the Bible and nothing is said. A few misguided troops burn the Quaran and we are ready to hang them. Look, let's just pull our troops out of all the trouble spots, let the idiots kill each other, and let the rest of us live in peace.
Times have changed. Soldiers are now diplomats, medics, friends, protectors, teachers, representatives, yadda, yadda, yadda. Incredible what our soldiers actually do.
"Incredible" is one word for it.
I'm going out on a limb here and doing a little public prophecy. I don't think you'll be so pleased with what our soldiers actually do after they come home and do it here.
This story is too poorly written to tell the reader exactly what occurred. Laborers were carting out the trash to be burned, and found several copies of the Quran about to be burned, or rescued them after some had already been burned?
Whatever the details, it is a public relations disaster. It is all radical elements in Afghanistan need to stir up anti-American feelings.
Cassie-
lol
yeah, the koran is very progressive to the rights of women and children, I havnt' read it, but I can tell by seeing how women are treated in most muslim countries.
Violence or rejection because someone not of your faith violates your faith is unacceptable in the modern world.
Democracy and this kind of religious reactions cannot coexist...
Ya know what I mean? We should have done a "compatibility test" before trying to impose democracy on highly religious tribal communities.
IRESPOND, think beneath the surface. US personnel were burning the bibles in 2009 because they were bibles meant for the purpose of converting Muslims to Christianity. Conversion is a crime in Islam and it infuriates the devout Muslims, causing more hatred and violence against our troops. In other words, it leads to the recruitment of more terrorists and insurgents, and ultimately, more of our troops killed.
That's the major problem over there. We don't understand their ways, and we don't understand that had we been born in Afghanistan, we would most likely have been one of them, believing in our Allah and following his laws even more ardently than we believe in Christianity now. Christians and Jews tend to be for the most part pickers and choosers when it comes to Yahweh's laws, one of which is to kill anyone who converts to another religion--just like in the Quran.
We show them constantly that we don't respect them, and the beat of war drums goes on.
I agree with dman-353357, the story is poorly written but it is stated that the books were in the trash that was transported to a disposal location to be burned by Afghan laborers. How the books got into the trash is a mystery but the burning was clearly done by the Afghans:
Justen --
And yet, it is. I've read it, more than once, and in the original Arabic. And I'm not lying to you. Just to put my remarks in context, let me tell you that I'm not a Muslima, and in fact, I'm an atheist. More than that, I'm actually anti-religion.
It's my observation that culture trumps religion every time. American Christians don't follow the Bible. (Thank goodness.) And Muslims don't follow the Qur'an. (Unfortunately.)
But in the case of Islam, it's a tad more complicated. They have a body of writings called Haddith. Although the Qur'an expressly forbids Haddith, and the Prophet himself forbid the Haddith, Muslims actually follow the Haddith instead of the Qur'an. They pay lip-service--quite literally--to the Qur'an, but Haddith is based on their culture, and it wins in the end.
They are Haddithians, not Muslims. The number of real Muslims are few indeed, and are at risk of their lives if they speak out. This is a secret deep within Islam that outsiders don't know.
The Haddith is full of the most vile superstition, stupidity, and just plain evil you can imagine.
The reality is actually quite fascinating, and not as simple black-and-white as American think. But in any case, Muslima's had rights long before Western women had any.
What part of "they were burning trash from the base" don't you idiots understand? They were not ordered to burn the books, it was not an intentional act to burn the books. They discovered the books as they were burning the garbage, something they did on a regular basis, and found the books as they were doing it. They stopped when they found the books within the burning garbage.. Someone always has to sensationalize things to make their own cause look repressed. These people have beheaded, stoned, raped, etc... in the name of their religion in the past 3 months and this created more of an uproar. The mistaken burning of a book. If it were me I wouldn't have told a soul and made sure they were burnt beyond rcognition so none would have been the wiser.
Women have been treated the same way in these countries since 1000 years before Islam was started. It's all tribal custom that has been imprinted on Islam.
Its only paper..
Eric-1993903
While that probably would've avoided the controversy, the article says the workers who dispose of the trash are Afghans, so no dice.
When we are aware that these books have to be specially handled, how'd they end up in the trash in the first place? Really, we shouldn't be making this kind of mistake any more. There are enough screwups in the normal course of war - this one was totally avoidable if someone did their job correctly. Hopefully they can figure out how to prevent this sort of thing next time around.
Marlane,
You have issues.
the fact that these people show no fear of the us military proves this war has been a lost cause
Some books got burned--Who Cares? The reaction is more proof that there is no place for religious fanatics in the modern world. I am pretty sure we still have the nutron bomb we devoloped back in the 60's or 70's. Perhaps it is time to consider just cleaning out all of the vermin and in a few years repopulating the area with rational people.
My guess as to how the books ended up in the garbage? The detainees or other Muslims put them there, knowing they'd be burned, so there would be a big controversy over it. Anything to cause conflict and problems against a military and country that they all hate. I wish we would just pull our forces out of those areas and let them handle their own problems. Their culture is obviously not suited for a democracy, nor do they want it.
I know the Quran is a religious book, and there are certain protocols for the proper handling and disposal of them, but it is a BOOK. To get violent over what appears to be an unintentional act is animalistic. As if they would take any care in disposing of a bible!
Boy O' Boy!!! We really know how to win these people over.
Think about this, more than half the population of Afghanistan are opium users" red it several times starting at eight,ten and twelve years old..That should be rubbed back in their face.
.
Is there some reason why we can't turn copies of the Koran which we don't want over to the religious authorities to dispose of "properly"?
I think the original comments made in these posts fail to grasp what actually happened here; I am not and never have been in the military, but even I know that on foreign bases that are located in more isolated areas, all "trash" is incinerated. I also know that soldiers are meant to follow orders without question. Put the two together and you get soldiers burning "trash" as they were told, without thinking to question, "Should we be burning these Quran's? Is this a more sensitive issue than simply burning things that have been discarded?". The point is that I don't think the soldiers were burning Quran's because they were bored or out of spite, in this case anyway. It seems they were just following orders of their commanding officers to burn "waste", without thinking to ask these officers if the Quran's should be burned once they were found in the trash. It could also be the officers' fault of either not caring or knowing the issues involved with doing so, or simply not knowing these Quran's were placed in the pile of trash to be incincerated.
As lame as it sounds, especially because I'm sure that these soldier's have their hands full already and enough on their minds, in a process of soldier withdrawal when we are trying to leave a country we invaded in good political and social standing (or even when occupying a country in general), it would probably be a good idea to educate our soldiers and officers of the potential problems which may occur from such practices involving cultural or religious traditions. In other words, these are the things you absolutely should not do around Afghans or Muslims. I'm sure there is some training, or cultural experiences learned while occupying a country, but a recap is always a good idea. I'm talking like a simple 10 minute talk, not an extensive training course.
The last thing we need is soldiers, NATO peacekeepers, or UN members being killed from riots and demonstrators when they are so close to being withdrawn, especially for misunderstandings.
Cassie321
Your vitriolic comments about th e military obviously highlight the fact that you know nothing about the military or what goes on in it. I do, I've spent more than 20 years in the military, here at home, and in the Persian Gulf. You comment on, "I don't think you'll be so pleased with what our soldiers actually do after they come home and do it here" Do you actually have first hand knowledge on what troops do while in country? Or are you just regurgitatiing what you see on liberal media? I'll tell you what, you sit in a bombed out building with snipers and religious fanatics shooting at you from all directions, and then report back, until then, keep your absurd opinions to yourself.
Alex - except, it wasnt soldiers who burned the trash, it was afghan soldiers.
So the very first and only question should have been: why am I dumping these books in the trash (which will result in burning)...VS...giving these to local religious authorities to do with as they please (charity).
Ultimately, this just proves once again our military is just as inept as every other branch of govt - but for some reason, the only one ever exempt from republican scorn.
"we are winning the hearts and minds of afghans, except we dont have f'ing clue how to do it cuz we are all a bunch of testosterone laden mental midgets who's only good quality in life is I LIKE TO BLOW SH!T UP!"
that should be our new afghan slogan...maybe we should hang a Mission Accomplished banner or something?
Cassie321:
Excellent posts. It is rare when I get the pleasure to read such well informed, intelligent posts here on newsvine. For all those folks contesting her historical and theological analysis, you're only shouting your ignorance from the rooftops. Cheers, Cassie and keep it up.
To Demetrious and others, try reading the article before making a fool of yourself. The article very clearly states that the Qurans in question were left behind by persons held in custody at Bagram. The soldiers who burned them were assigned the duty of burning trash (low ranking soldiers in armies throughout the world have been performing this duty for time immemorial). Once they realized that the trash contained these copies they stopped. The afghan people are merely reacting to whatever provocation they can find. They don't want us there, and I agree we should leave. Truth is, once we found that the Afghans were hiding Osama, we should have bombed them into oblivion and never should have put troops on the ground. Still, you really should read an article before posting.
F these f@$#ingcamel jockeys and the boat they rode in on. They sit there and burn the american flag, behead nato servicemen, protest a cartoon. The reason nato will never and could never win a war since Vietnam is because we are so afraid of offendingthe enemy. Bomb the rioters and you will get rid of most of the enemy. Im sure they're the one's inciting the riot.
Marlane, you're comments about the core values and ideologies of the three major Western religions is naive and in the second posting, misleading enough to be inaccurate.
Good grief, you're as wishy-washy as they get when it comes to simply calling a spade a spade; your grasp of history and facts of these religions is on par what that of a third grader.
We inadverdently burn qurans, the people go crazy, the Taliban torture and execute people for not following strict sharia, or making a mistake, and you hear nothing. What this shows is more hate for us, than for the burning of the quran, who would protest if the Taliban burned bibles in Afghanistan,Im guessing noone,this shows the doublestandard Islamist live by. ie It is o.k to kill someone in the name of our religion, but not to burn a book? Their standards of right and wrong are surely skewed.
The problem is they do not see it that way. So the hypocrisy continues.
if the Afghans were smart they would rise up against the Taliban,not talking about the security forces we are training, I am talking about the regular citizens, they should be protesting the senseless kiling and abductions by the Taliban, they will pay dearly for helping us half heartedly when the Taliban take back over once we have left. Women will be killed for "mistakes" they make according to Sharia , men will be forced to dress and look a certain way, and much more opression will continue.
The citizens of Afghanistan will regret their complacency when they had the chance to help us completely topple the Taliban, they are the reason it has not happened not our forces, time has proven withoput the suppport of the people no amount of weapons will help, so have fun watching your women get buried to up to their head and pelted with rocks til the die, or their nose and ears cut off for supposed adultery.
Your doublestandard toward us will lead to your country's opression,mark my words.
Truer words have not been spoken, so keep directing your anger at us and not the true opressors,and see how that works for ya. We put our women and children first in our country,.you obviously put them last in yours.
Several thoughts here -
where the hell were the officers, a result of lack of discipline, in our armed forces, what the hell is going on in the ranks; when i was in the service, if I had done something like this i would still be peeling potatoes, as a seaman recurit , our once great citizen army is in total decline, lack of leadership, lack of command, and lack of plain common sense .
chuckinolathe-
I was quoting redsinthehills "it's incredible what our soldiers do." I am disgusted with the actions of our military and make no bones about it. Any civilized person would be, and people all over the world are. If you think Abu Ghraib, raping and murdering little girls, cold-blooded execution of women and children, urinating on corpses, hacking off body parts for souvenirs, and the murder of countless unarmed civilians is something to be proud of, then you're not someone whose opinion matters to me.
I understand that war is hell. IMO, we have not been engaged in war. We have invaded other countries and should not be surprised if their citizens fight back. The situation is akin to a bully whining because his victim hit back. Or to be more precise, our situation is akin to a bully shooting a victim who punched back, and then blaming the victim.
We were attacked on 911 by Saudi's under the leadership of bin Laden, the son of a wealthy and elite Saudi family. The result was that our President invaded everyone but, and went to Saudi Arabia to smooch and hold hands with the prince.
But even if our military had engaged Saudi Arabia, our REAL enemy, I would never support their behaving like rabid animals.
I realize some soldiers are decent people, but everyone who kills another human being is personally responsible for their actions. War is for defense. Period.
If you do not want our soldiers to burn the Quran, then I have a suggestion. Gather your copies of the Quran, then mail them to me. I can and will burn them with as much disrespect as you like, and videotape it. When the Quran and those that believe in it have respect for women and foreigners, or have respect for reason, logic, and treating others right, then I will start having a respect for the Quran. When they prove themselves to be something other than ignorant, violent thugs, then I will have respect for the Quran.
@ cassie;
The other day you post this...
Then today you post this.
Really, you lived among the natives as an athiest infidel?lol(I doubt it) Even admitting and I quote," I dont really give a sh t.. about them".
Your words are now truly suspect, your comments are rightfully being collapsed.
Cassie ,yeah your an Atheist and Islam is a peaceful religion, may I suggest you try living in a Muslim country. You know nothing about true Christianity. Christianity the light of day, Islam the darkness of night. Isn't it funny that on a daily basis we hear of atrocities committed by your peaceful muslims. How long a go was it reported Afghanistan Girls hit in face with acid for trying to get an education, or a women in Iran condemned to be stoned. You don't have the right to speak about our military until you've been put in the positions they have, you don't even know the truth of what happened
I assume they have apologized for all the American Flags they have burned?
Okay, let me take a crack at this one. I have read most of these posts. In general, they are like the Foreign Policy of today's America. It is a policy based on "Relativism."
In one post a fellow writes that he has never read the Koran but he knows, yes he says he knows from what he knows about the way Muslims treat woman that they are evil doers. Relatively speaking in my great country; the United States of America one in four girls under the age of 18 has been "sexually abused." That would be a "bad" thing right? So, relatively speaking then what?
In another post a man juxtaposes Islam with " the Westboro Baptist Church." Is he confusing the Westboro Baptist Church, with the " Dove World Outreach Center" in Gainesville, Florida and their idiot "pastor" Terry Jones? Jones is that jerk who threatened to burn the Koran on the anniversary of Sept. 11. After telephone calls from people in Washington, D.C. ( people whose telephone numbers most of us could never get), and from other world leaders he decides not to. He was told that by burning the Koran he would endanger the lives of our brave troops. A year later, in the name of "crimes against humanity" the little prick burns a copy. Sure enough this causes riots around the world, attacks on American facilities, and the death and injury to hundreds of people. The Westboro Baptist Church are a different set of tax-free lunatics who probably would not even exist if they were not composed of so many family members. Their religious belief has prompted them to picket the sacred funerals of our noble and brave fallen soldiers. This is done, they say, to further their agenda of anti-queers in America.
So much for the "hearts and minds" when we have leaders who do not even begin to understand the hearts and minds. The last man who did was General Stanley A. McChrystal. He got canned by the Commander-In-Chief when Rolling Stone Magazine lied about things he and his staff never said about the President. Ask me Mr. President, I am an upstanding American and I have lived there, I have studied their religion, I once spoke the language and several of the different dialects. Remember those "sheep-skin" coats that most every real hippie needed, yep I was making money. The coats with the hand stitched "peace" symbol on the back cost double. I was also living in Iran, making money. I spent months doing business in tea houses across that country, talking and drinking gallons of tea. I listened and returned to report back to the powers in Washington in the year 1970 that there was going to be a major revolution in Iran that would change the face of Islam as we knew it. That proved to be the case in what 1978 or 79 when they took our embassy people hostage? Look at them today Mr. President and Hillary Clinton. A bomb; the big one? Arms to every country who will pay. Support of Syria and certain people in Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Libya, and on and on. You did not listen to me last time so this time, as a true American, a real capitalist, this time I will charge you and then perhaps you may listen. Ten Million a day!
So a stack of Korans get burned up and this upsets the people. What would Americans and Christian Americans do if they burned our flag, burned the Bible; both the Old and New Testaments, or used the pages for toilet paper rather than their left hand? Yeah, Holy S___!
The president of Afghanistan is a son-of-a bitch. Hamid Karzai is so deluded that I think he really believes that he will some day be the leader of the entire Muslim World. He wears the "Green Mantle," what in the hell is that all about? The late Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, a good man who had studied the region in great depth and understood what he was dealing with including the many different "tribes" of the country, had reached the point where he could not even talk to Karzai. Karzai and his late half-brother Ahmed Wali Karzai ( AWK) have stolen billions of our dollars and no one demands from that turd where our money is. Relatively speaking, if our Justice Department is demanding of Swiss Banks where the money is of some "drug dealers" why don't they also demand an accounting of Hamid's money and his drug dealing brother AWK?
So now what? The media has been ginning us up for a war with Syria. Stupid John McCain says "we" need to start arming the protesters. Sure John, just as we did Egypt and Libya. In Egypt the ruling people are said to be the "Military." Not so Johnnie, behind them are the Muslim Brotherhood, who since 1920 have been.... The Muslim Brotherhood is more involved in Syria than in Egypt and you want to have an arms race with Russia again to see who can push more weapons? I don't know about you all but these wars have cost me plenty. I do not make a dime from the sale of weapons. I do understand that it involves Trillions of dollars, can you hook me up McCain? The "good" that one could do with just a few billion...............
Yesterday I was worried about the safety of our troops. Today I am very concerned and wonder if I will sleep tonight. There is little defense against their weapon of choice; the suicide bomb. May God watch over our warriors.
Coral Taxi-
I don't mind when my comments are collapsed. Personally, I always scan collapsed comments because they are often by people who don't regurgitate the me-too PC BS. Also, people who collapse comments are saying they don't believe in free speech and can only tolerate thoughts and opinions that mirror their own. Why should I let people who think like that annoy me?
Now, you are calling me a liar. You don't know me, know nothing of my history, but you think you've found some inconsistency that justifies your indignant accusations. Apparently you are so paranoid that you believe I'm secretly a Muslim, although I have stated plainly that I am atheist.
However, if you take your medications, you'll probably stop having hallucinations. And since you don't know me at all, your fantasies are based on nothing except... your fantasies.
For the record: I lived in an Arab/Muslim country. I came to know the people very well. They are fundamentally VERY different from us. I am VERY uncomfortable with those differences.
I am disgusted with the U.S. military. I do not believe in war except for defense. I do not believe in breaking the Geneva Convention except if absolutely necessary for defense. I believe that if you kill another human being, you are responsible for that death and should have a very good reason and no excuses.
I am an atheist.
Those are the pertinent FACTS about me. Don't call me a liar again. I assure you, there is no one on Newsvine whose opinion matters so much that I would lie to impress, and least of all you.
I am so thankful for our men and woman over there and the job they are doing. We just don't realize how lucky we are to be living in this country with the freedoms it provides.
.
It does not matter what we do over there, they are going to hate us.
President Obama, you said you would get us out of war, we are now involved in more wars now than we were 4 years ago. Please stand true to your word, bring our men home.
Cassie,
Thanks for providing intelligence to this debate. It amazes me that the ignorant comments are visible, yet your comments are collapsed. Sadly, there are far too few objective and educated commentators such as yourself. I hope these threads are censored to foreigners, for fear that Americans lose what remaining global respect that we have left...
@ cassie; First off I said your words are now suspect, and I doubt what you are saying, I did not profess it as an outright lie. How can you say you lived among a people(Muslims in their native lands),and have read the Quran twice, and then they day before say you do not even give a sh t about them. This makes no sense, and is an obvious contradiction of your own words, you can not argue this, I put your own contradictory words in front of you.
If you have read the Quran twice as you say, I would say you do care about the Muslims and Islam
What country? What tribe?When did you live with them, you see you are dealing with someone who has been following the ME daily since I was thirteen,so please tell me where you lived in the ME.
Like judge Judy says if it does not make sense then it probably is not true, what country were you in, what tribe were you with, or what city did yoy stay and live as a female atheists?lol
You would of been made to wear a burqa or Hajib, as anti religous as you say you are that must of been tough.lol
You have been outed, I am not an idiot, this is why I did not answer to any of your rhetoric the other day.
2000 of them outside a U.S. Military Base acting with violence.....Sounds like a missed opportunity to me.
Wlee. To state that Christianity is the light of the day in comparison to Islam is incredibly ignorant. Yes, there are extremely conservative Muslims who commit atrocities. The same can be said for Christians and Catholics. How are all those little boys the Catholic priests rape in the name of God? Oklahoma City? Jonestown? You can argue that Timothy McVeigh and Jim Jones were just crazy nuts and shouldn't be considered representatives of the Christian community as a whole. So why is it so hard to accept that Muslim extremists aren't representatives of Islam as a whole? Probably because you're one of those rascally extremists who thinks your religion is the "one true religion." Extremism in ANY form is ridiculous. And as far as I can tell, there are an equal number of extremists Christians as there are Muslims.
And Coral, watching your debate with Cassie, you really ARE basing your arguments on speculation. I'll give you a "for instance:" I've read the bible, I'm not Christian. And yet I live among a relatively fair-sized Christian/Catholic population, to the point where I literally hear at least one person trying to convert me a week (Strangely enough, my town is also mostly Republican, at least the older generation. But I'm sure that's just coincidence and is an argument for another day). I was raised by a Christian father and Jewish mother who converted to Christianity. Yet, I am not a Christian. Speculation on aspects of a person's life are baseless if you have never actually met the person.
@ factofmatter; We are not having a debate number one. I am just calling her out on her contradictions, not speculation, I put the words right in front of you, here lets speculate on her words some more.
Really nice, then to say you lived among Muslims and with them and read their holy book twice, as an anti religous atheist? With no explaination of why. This is highly suspect, you must admit.
Factofthematter, really ,there are just as many fringe Christians as Muslims? Lets see everyday i look at the news and there is another Muslim terrorist killing I must have missed the Christian one. No I'm no extremist and I'm in no position to determine heaven for anyone. Funny thing you said you were raised by a Christian Father and a Jewish mother and you weren't a Christian, now try that in a Muslim family. Read the teachings of Jesus now read the teachings of Muhammad, take out mans interpretation, tell me which is light and which is darkness.
@ Coral Taxi; "I am just calling her out on her contradictions, not speculation, I put the words right in front of you, here lets speculate on her words some more."
You have reading comprehension problems, that's why you can't understand Cassie. The only way you CAN make a comment like that is by living amongst them. If YOU say it, while sitting on your ass in front of your computer, THAT would be pure speculation because you would know NOTHING but what you've learn from people who HAVEN'T been there. I certainly wouldn't listen to how to fix my car from somebody who's never owned one.
If the name fits you are wearing it. I would post in Arabic but I will get suspended or banned.
You claimed that you read the Holy Koran (Quran), yet you FAILED to mention to these Newsvine Posters about:
a. The 109 Suras (Verses) of the 114 Suras that Call All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.,
b. The Holy Koran (Quran) stated punishment for Islamic Believers that do not participate in the War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.,
c. Where the Hadith, Fiqh, Sharia Laws are actually derived from (NOT Tribal Customs; but, from the Suras of the Holy Koran (Quran) as "interpreted" by the Fundamentalists (Shiites, Shia) versus the less Fundamentalist interpretations of the Sunnis as the Centuries Old War between the Islamic Fundamentalist Shia and "Moderate", "Pro West" Sunnis.).,
d. The most Holy of Holy Islamic Celebrations of Ramadan actually celebrating the massacres of the Christian, Jew Defenders of Mecca; the Military Successes of Islam against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers., e. etc..
So like you said about Coral Taxi comment, "Now, you are calling me a liar"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkv_29Rncg
And pertaining to the US Military, like I said before, 92% of US Citizens have NEVER Served in the US Military (stated by Candidate Obama during the Presidential Debates). Currently, only 1% of US Citizens are Serving in the US Military doing those things that the 92% Refuse to do as per President Obama "US Military Service is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement" (his justifications for starting the Selective Service and Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service during the Presidential Debates), while being paid below minimum wage.
From the Article:
You, Cassie321, have NO idea just like the Rest of the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military, as well as the other 97% of US Military as Conventional Warfare Forces; about Asymmetric Warfare (3% of the US Military).
Do you even have ANY IDEA about the relevance of your Academic Idealistic nonsense of the 1907 Hague Conventions and the 1949 Geneva Conventions during an Asymmetric War: the term "Conventional" Warfare Military Forces came from these obsolete Conventions that attempted to make War "Civilized" (obeying Civilian Civil Laws during Wars).
Example of Asymmetric Warfare here (Afghanistan): When that Florida Pastor Threatened to Burn the Holy Koran (Quran), Worldwide the Imams at the Mosques stated that he had (past tense) Burned the Holy Koran (Quran). The Imams at the Mosques demanded that the Islamic Believers commit violence, and those Islamic Believers that did not participate in the violence were to be "disciplined" (beaten), our Intel inside the Mosques worldwide. So what started out as 1,000 Afghans grew to 10,000, then 100,000 Afghans that then started attempting to stone to death the Deutsche Bundeswehr Commandos to my Southwest. These Afghans then started to loot and burn down all the Afghan Businesses of those Afghans that refused to participate in the violence (Afghans save their whole lives to make money to buy things to sell). Prior to all of this many of these Afghans committing the violence demanded by the Imams were previously captured by us as Islamic Jihadists and released (insufficientevidence according to the hundreds of Lawyers sent here by President Obama becoming President Obama's Islamic Jihadist Catch and Release Program and "Cannot shoot until Shot" as the President Obama current Rules of Engagement. They are NOT stup!d as they wipe down weapons after shooting at us and throwing weapons away. Redacted or another chemical used to get rid of gun shot residue.), we used our mission video cameras, databases and facial recognition software to identify these "Demonstrators" from previous captures of suspected Islamic Jihadists.
A Strategic Goal of Asymmetric Warfare is to get the Population to Fight for your Cause(s). Of note, most of the Afghans protesting this burning of the Holy Koran (Quran) are of "Combatant Age"; just like the previous time mentioned above. This is exactly what Fundamentalist Islamic Iran did to start the "Arab Spring" (Overthrow of US Allies, President of Egypt, President of Yemen, forced cooperation of their Iranian Allies at Iraq (Kurdistanis, Shiites) to get the US out of Iraq (Iran sandwiched between to major US Military Forces). Results: (NOT an Uneducated Opinion) US Ally Saudi Arabia now surrounded (West: Muslim Brotherhood Egypt, North: Iraq (Shiites, Kurdistanis Allies of Iran), South: Yemen, Al Quada Yemen., East: Iran.). Iran's Strategic Gains: a. Mediterranean Ports to strike at the Crusaders (and no they did not forget this, still claim the Crusader's Defense of the Holy Land was an Attack)., b. As negotiated before the Egyptian Revolution by the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran gets Strategic Access to the Suez Canal., c. US and US Allies loss of the Iraqis Oil Contracts, 2010, to Iran's Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation, for this Iran gets more support from the Chinese and Russian Federation., d. Iran's "Sphere of Influence" increases at the Middle East, Africa, Asia, South and Central Americas., e. etc..
Once again (based on the above quote, anyone that has actually lived with the locals for a while knows exactly why):
Liar Liar, Pants on Fire!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkv_29Rncg
If you actually LIVED with the Locals for a few Decades and not at some secure Hotel for a few weeks, months, years; you would know just how wrong your posts are.
LOL. Less than 3.1 months and most of us finally get to go back on Retirement again and this time NEVER to be Recalled to Active Duty again (and again and again).
All you Academic Idealists with No Real World Life or Death Experience of the School of Hard Knocks "DEAL WITH IT".
By the way I am talking about Life or Death, What are you talking about.
david; Very good post,the youtube vid had me rotflmao . Yes I saw through cassie the other day but left it alone, she continued today and I could not resist calling her out, misleading people, insulting both Muslims and our fighting forces.
Wow I could send that vid to quite a few people that was great, I can tell by your post that you have knowledge most do not, as most think we took over the oil in Iraq, and that was the main reason we were there fighting when we did not even end up with most the contracts.
Yes when people cut on our forces ability I explain this in a way to say we are fighting old school with one arm tied behind our back, your detailed description is right on the money.
Yes as I said earlier their anger comes more from a place of a hate for us, motivated by Imams wishing our demise or defeat, more than truly caring about the acts that started it. My beleif is that Islamist leaders wait for an event such as this and then ramp it up, as you gave prime example of how it is done in your above post.
Kudos for giving cassie much more time than I thought she was worth. Also thanks for the good laugh,I hope she watches the whole thing. Where did she go by the way?lol
Thank you also for your service.
How many Bibles have the Muslims burned? How many American Flags? How many Muslims celebrated the Twin Towers Terrorist Islamic Attack? Fu(%-um. The Religion of Peace (If that is not a contridiction, what is?) stick it where the sun does not shine. FTMs,FTMs,FTMs......! They should be lucky that we do not turn their world into a sea of glass!
David's post was the only to mention the extremists notations and inscriptions and how the books had been used to incite violence as well as pass messages from one detainee to another. Now, the books should have been burned in a barrel, away from prying eyes. That would have solved two problems.
As to the violence, pfft. The Taliban (Obama's new best friends) will do whatever it takes to create murder and mayhem and violence. Apologizing? Please. They won't accept an apology, they don't want an apology, they only want excuses to kill and destroy.
Why are we even still there? Get our troops home and let those barbarians go back to the 8th century.
It's time for Pakistan to take control of their brethren. Pakistan is better suited and knows the nature of observant Islam much better than Americans. Pakistan has a higher vested interest in preventing the Taliban from coming back into power. Pakistan has claimed to be an official ally in the war on terror, let them prove their metal. If the US and UN leave Afghanistan, and the Taliban come back into power, it will be due solely to the failure of Pakistan to keep it's word, and it will prove their duplicity. If there is starvation in Afghanistan, it will be because Pakistan is an economic failure.
These people insist on the virtue of Sharia, Madrassa education, Islamic virtue, and fail to see the self imposed results.
Islam will prevent the people of Afghanistan from ever respecting the authority of America or that of any other foreign power. In their minds we are prejudged infidel. There is no purpose being there, even to help.
Each Talibani killed is the same in their minds as burning a Koran. Each school built is kufr tainted education. Each road built is a path to hell. They will find any excuse to protest the Kufr and kill their soldiers. The Koran gives them the impetus to disrespect the Kufr and the moral excuse to kill them, Even if they offer a chance to make a better life. The doctrine and imperatives in Islam will forever be the definitive reason that prevents success of American or NATO presence.
Time to leave this forsaken place to it's own devices. And if Terrorists ever make it a base again, it will be Pakistan that receives the nuke for failing to control their minions.
THEY , the Afghans, are the barbarians?
Yes, in fact marlane, they are the barbarians. And, the longer we occupy that region, the more we will become barbarians too.
Why are we still there? As an excuse to have troops and a based in Pakistan. It's not about Afganistan. It's about the whole region and bases. We're there to keep an eye on Pakistan and their nukes.
This isn't the first nor the last time things like this will happen. Individual soldiers, pushed too far, will react - that's just a fact of war. But, unlike the former Afghan govt., whose purpose became attacking the US, it isn't our national policy to humiliate Muslims, nor burn their holy book. That's also a fact. And those in Afghanistan who can't or won't understand the difference are the same sort of people who will lump in all Muslims as terrorists. Remember, we've got our crazies too!
"Why are we still there?" That's not the question. Why were we there in the first place? After 9/11, we should have went in with cruise missiles and blew al quida and the taliban to pieces. Then told them if you harbor terrorist that attach the U.S., we will come back and do it all over again, so you better mind your own house. No reason for a troop to ever set foot in that place.
Another reason to leave that hell hole. To bad these Muslim kooks don't have as much respect for their mothers, wives and daughters as they do a book of fiction. Nothing can save the ignorant masses of such a pathetic pack of tribes. Maybe they can make into the 19th century one of these decades.
US military seems to have no shortage of idiots in position of authority. Which brainless idiots allowed such a sensitive situation to develop? The same ones responsible for Abu Grahib? Stupid is what stupid does...
This whole thing is absurd. They put some books in the trash that were no longer needed. This as not done as any kind of religious statement or to piss anyone off. since they no longer house large numbers of Muslim prisoners at the base the Korans were no longer needed. As a result they were put in the trash to be disposed of. The laborers on the base then took the trash to be burned as they always do. This was a routine disposal of trash, not some religiously motivated incident. It is completely absurd to get so upset over something like this. It is also the height of hypocrisy for any of them to protest this when they routinely do things like burn the bodies of our soldiers and the American flag in clear attempts to inflame passions.
It is time to stop the nonsense and just pull our troops out. Let these backwards fanatics have their wars with each other and kill each other off. There is no reason to risk any more American lives trying to save them from themselves. Just make it clear that any attacks on American interests coming from the country will result in our carpet bombing the whole place. Maybe if we make it clear that they will all be out at risk if they continue to tolerate the action of the fanatics, they will do something to put an end to the fanatics themselves.
The worship of something outside yourself that tells you how to life your life, like a book, imam, preacher, or pope, is idol worship. When you rely on something outside yourself, you are weak. The point of the Quran, Bible, etc. is to guide you to develop your own conscience as this strengthens you. But Muslim imams, much like evangelical preachers and catholic bishops, prefer people to be weak. That way they can be controlled and manipulated, like sheep, to further the greed for power of a corrupt institution.
Incidents like this should also warn those who want to jump into Sryia and Iran to keep away!
Followers of Islam know only hatred and killings! Rumor is good enough to start riots!
Do you want such people in your streets?
This B.S. with the Muslim community has become tedious...Why are we apologizing? Different day same crap!
I guess many people have their own agenda, jumping to conclusions from an article that lack from information and attacking any target they can shoot. I have my own conclusion much different. Those burned Korans where rescue from places where our soldiers combat, in respect to they Muslim religion those where given back to the authorities in Afghanistan for the proper disposal, however some Afghans found the Korans and start blaming Americans for doing so.
Afghan and Pakistan are barbarians from the past and the way they are acting is pathetic. Hey barbarians get a life will ya.!!!!!!!!!!!
DeSoto called the Native people of North America barbarians as he burned women and children alive in their huts. Columbus called the people of "Hispaniola" barbarians as he enslaved every man, woman and child in gold and silver mines. More Native peoples died during the theft of this land than died in the gas chambers of the German death camps, all because they were "barbarians" (non-christian). So you good Christians just keep calling everyone you wish to exterminate "barbarians" and hopefully your "lord" will see who the real "barbarians" are when you are knees begging forgiveness for the atrocities you commited in his name.
We are there because the Republicans don't want to "cut and run," oh wait, re-election year, forgot, the Democrats started this war so we should leave.
Regardless if it was an honest mistake or not, who ever put those books in the trash to be burned should have known better, period. If they had a military base here in the US and burned Bibles, there would have been a LOT of pissed off people here too. Some times just a little common sense goes a long way.
Why we're there, when we got there, all the questions above don't matter. Nobody had a problem going over there to get the people behind 9/11 (I certainly didn't and came close to enlisting just for that reason). Now that everyone's figured out that war sucks for all invovled and doesn't feel good on the 5 o'clock news, "it was a bad decision".
There will NEVER be peace over there, the last 2,000 years proves it. But if we have the intel, man power, and tools to take care of the idiots over there to prevent another 9/11, than we are stupid not to fight them over there and keep our people safe. That is what the military is there for, the safety of our people and freedoms.
The whole "win their hearts and minds" philosophy is just another stupid idea brought to us by the Europeans and Progressives. If you go to war, you fight a total war of death and destruction until the enemy surrenders unconditionally. You then impose the necessary changes on the remaining population to eliminate the issues that caused the war in the first place. We haven't fought that way since WWII. That is why America ultimately lost in Iraq and we will lose in Afghanistan. I don't see why we just don't finallize our surrender in Afghanistan and bring all the troops home now.
JS - so basically you're saying our soldiers and leaders who decided the best way to "dispose" of unused korans was throwing them in the trash, knowing they'd be burned...rather than giving them away to a local religious authority, are just idiots?
I have to agree.
Or, you're saying that if I ever get bored of my American flag, the best way for me to dispose of it is to put it in my trash pile, which I just so happen to BURN.
I mean no offense america, im just disposing of my flag...sheesh, dont be so sensitive.
KC "Why we're there, when we got there, all the questions above don't matter. Nobody had a problem going over there to get the people behind 9/11 (I certainly didn't and came close to enlisting just for that reason)."
I had a huge problem with it and many other people did too. Given your logic, we should have attacked, invaded and occupied Florida - ya know, where the terrorists ACTUALLY TRAINED how to fly planes to carry out the actual attacks.
No different than the little bit of training they got in afghanistan.
When you couple that reality with the fact that the Afhanistan Tribes were ready, willing and able to hand over Osama Bin Laden, and Bush refused and invaded ANYWAY...it starts to paint a clear picture about whats really going on here...and it has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11
but as the saying goes "never let a good tragedy go to waste"...and little boys like you were all to willing to prove just how macho, american and brave they were by killing foreigners for revenge.
I guess im glad "everyone" is figuring it out now had bad this war sucks...i just wish folks like you, next time...would employ a little bit of critical thinking before reacting...and maybe, just maybe we'll avoid another "mistake" like this and Iraq.
I wont hold my breath though...we are already gearing up for Iran, to "save the jews from destruction once again"...all the while ignoring the fact that it's isreal poking the stick through the bars of the lions exhibit...stiring the lion into reacting.
I guess you missed the news conference - the one where Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari, Iran's President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, AND Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai - held a press conference saying that they will unite to help each other. I watched it on Link TV, but got to LinkTV.com and you will probably find it there.
The US needs to get out and stop interfering. It is well known that our indiscriminate bombings (in Bahrain, Yemen, Pakistan etc) - places we aren't even at war with - are creating more terrorists against us than we had during 9/11. Our policies make the US it's own worst enemy. We barely hold on to respect in Europe and most of that is with Great Britain.
Jessica (above me) is correct - the US and Israel have been badgering Iran for the last two years - egging them to battle, Iran has the only cool head in the area but it's getting sick of this and these sanctions are stupid - what did they do to us? They want a bomb, big deal - it's an equalizer and they need it - they also need energy - dessert crude is costly to refine, that's why they ship it elsewhere. If Iran bombs a something - they won't use a nuke - elections are coming up and the clerics want more power - we should be friendly to Iran so that that does not happen - 70% of Iran is under 30 years old, we don't need them to hate us.
Meanwhile the taliban has deliberately demolished a historic Buddhist in Afghanistan with little protest from the locals. I try to be sensitive to their beliefs but am slowly coming to realization that those that aren't tolerant of others beliefs/religions do not deserve it coming their way, either.
Big deal, we burned a couple qurans. They get all upset about that but it didn't bother them when Nick Bergs head was cut off and "disrespectfully"held up for all to see by a bunch of muslims.
I see two errors. One is a mistake caused by a moron putting the wrong books in the trash.
The other is a bunch of other morons holding a riot over it.
No, I don't respect you if you use religion as an excuse to be stupid. Respect does not come before the need to stop throwing fits.
I would laugh at this statement if it wasn't so sad. You want Pakistan - a place where it's OK for a husband to burn and permanently disfigure a woman's face with acid if he SUSPECTS she is cheating on him, or a man can burn and disfigure a woman's face if she turns down his marriage proposal - to take control of something?? Really?
Well said, Derek.
Jessica - Where did you read that Osama was ready to be handed over? I must have missed that article, but would love to get more background on it.
I guess it would make sense to bomb Florida if it were a foreign country training terrorists, but because the terrorist were under the guise of people just wanting to learn, I really don't see the sense in that.
Also, if you had a person living in your house, and left a foreign flag there, then yes you would burn that. No reason not to. Your analogies make a point, but are rather inaccurate. Of course, I don't expect any less here.
Maybe we should throw rocks at somebody everytime they burn the flag.
Too late. It just takes one incident like this to sway the masses to more hate. Of course they can burn our flag, burn the bible and that is fine. You are dealing with illiterates and people who would cut your throat if they believe you have disrespected them in some way.
This is futile. We are walking around on eggs. But let's not forget. This was the good war as opposed to Iraq the bad war. See a difference yet?
Why do we continue to try and liberate this part of the world? Democrats have done a horrible job getting us out of these conflicts. Ron Paul may be our only hope....
It is time to begin an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan. No more of our service men and women should have to risk their lives in this foolish adventure. There is no evidence that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have done anything to lessen the threat of terrorism. The aftermath of 9/11 is a mountain of debt, the loss of thousands of lives and hospitals full of wounded and maimed. What the terrorists did was awful. The way our leaders reponded is morally reprehensible. The American people should demand that we focus on rebuilding our own country and forget about policing the world.
America needs to withdraw from this Country. We do not need to be there, wasting our own Taxpayer money. These people are FED UP WITH THE US. We invaded and occupy a Country who DOES NOT want us there. The US goes into this country and then tries to CHANGE them and their religions, show how we handle democracy. Do you think they care? All they see if the US coming into their country and killing THEIR people, with Drones and by other methods. They don't want or need our help. Why are we even here. We are wasting our money on this, the US got Bin Laden so, what is the reason we need to still be here? To Rebuild? How about we withdraw and spend those TRILLIONS on our schools, getting people health care, and on our falling apart roads?
One question for all those who degrade the Afghans, What would you do or say if a foreign entity burned the bible. Like I have always said, religions create hatred and intolerance of others beliefs. Also for those who said we would let the UN take over, DUH, we, the USA invaded Afghanistan. I'm tired of listening to those of us who are so ignorant of facts or commonsense.
Winker, what would you say if someone videotaped cutting off one of your friends or relatives heads? Would you just shrug your shoulders and say glad it wasn't me? Sometimes you have to actually take action, life can't always be clean and simple. They have already burned Bibles and done much worse. This is the country where the people responsible for 9-11 were sheltered after murdering all the people by causing the destruction the twin towers. Their Quran states that Jesus will come back and kill all of the Jews and Christians someday. The only mistake we have made is trying to win their hearts and minds, it didn't work in Vietnam it won't work now. Fights are won by breaking the other sides spirit and their pride. We need to stop fighting wars on the other sides terms and just go in and devastate the entire country, then they will think twice before they attack us again.
This whole matter could have been avoided if the book had been properly incinerated in the first place. If all that was taken out was a pile of ash and none of the books had survived intact or partially intact as was apparently the case, then no one would have been the wiser. Additionally they have the gall to accuse us of mistreating their precious book when they themselves apparently defile, what is supposed to be a holy book, with messages to each other? Apparently the Afghans general public are as naive and stupid as the reports say they are, to protest the burning of a defiled religious book! Personally I think (apparently like many here) that we should leave the country to self destruct and go back to it's barbaric ways and stop all funding as well. We tried to help bring those people improve their quality of life and gave it a good try and must face the fact that you can't help those who truly don't want help!
Hello you guys don't even know who threw the Korans in the trash. Do you know how many civilians from other countries work there? How would you even know it was a Koran since it was obviously written in the native language
Afghani men your babies are starving and frozen.............. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Afghani men your women are being beaten and have acid burns..............ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Afghani men the Koran is being burned....................WTF! GET MY CAMEL AND GUN! DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO BIRDS! DEATH TO BEES! DEATH TO JEWS! DEATH TO AMERICA AGAIN! DEATH TO THE GUY WHO SOLD ME THESE UGLY PANTS! DEATH TO INFIDELS! DEATH TO AMERICA 6 MORE TIMES.....
@latekate That's exactly what I was thinking.
And the question remains; why are we still in that hellhole? Bring our guys back home!
I'm American and proud. I have to admit that the American government is not the brightest government out there. Instead of going to Afghanistan and Iraq. Spending all of the billions of dollars that have been spent for nothing. They should have spent it on the security back home, education ,and factories for more jobs.......We have lost so many great people, time and money.......So sad.......
Controversial topic?.......yes.
Effects of discussing it? ......nothing.
Newsworthy item?........not in the least.
Just more grief from the mainstream media.
Much Ado About Nothing!
Truth is, these people are reacting appropriately. Had someone, or foreign power, been caught burning Bibles anywhere, Christians would be soiling their drawers and demanding heads in reprisal. The Quran is their "holy book", hence they are rightfully outraged. I really doubt this was done intentionally, as General Allen says, yet, it happened, therefore NATO must take responsibility and do everything It can to defuse the effects of the error. I agree, we need to get out of there, but our exit must demonstrate honorable deference to all the Afghan people, whom we invaded, and have occupied for so long. It is their country, and their chosen way. We must never allow prejudices of contrasting basic norms to poison the rights of those who wish to adhere to them, not even in war.
You are an idiot.
@Charles the Hammerhead
Before Pakistan can handle another country, they need to fix their own. I don't think any of you have been to Pakistan or are aware of their problems. The government is corrupt, Zardari is taking all their money, and people are afraid to go outside alone.
First of all, the Qu'raan does not have any extremist messages at all. Half these terrorists are illiterate, uneducated, and have never read the Qu'raan nor prayed. I would like to know if this military official or any of these soldiers can read Arabic and have read the entire Qu'raan. Because I have read it numerous times, and never once did it say "Kill this race, kill that one! Kill non-believers!"
We are to smart to keep making these same STUPID mistakes time after time. Somebody should be held accountable for this. Totally avoidable.
It is so evident by these threads that hate, bigotry and ignorance are alive and thriving in the US. This type of behavior by
Americans is exactly WHY we are so hated in other Countries.
Ignorance and fear of cultures that are not understood creates hate. And, it works both ways. They do not understand this "Christian" nation just the same as Americans NOT understanding Muslim Countries. Intolerance only feeds the hate and the ignorance. Americans need to wake up and figure it out, this hatred and intolerance of other cultures only stokes the hatred of the US.
The sooner the earth opens up and swallows this cess pit of a country and everyone in it the better.
Thank you for proving my point! Red Sailor
Slinger, this country does not have a culture it has fanaticism and a hate based religion.
latekate, thank you!! EXACTLY!!!!
Thanks for the laugh Walt. Where did you get your degree in religious studies? What Islamic resources did you work with the translate the Qur'an to get that stereotypical and fictitious agenda?
I'm sorry but I couldn't understand your response because your a$$ is in the way of your mouth.
Who cares if no one from the US understands the differences in beliefs in culture? No one said it needed to make sense to YOU individually. There are plenty of things you hold sacred that I am sure plenty of people in the world don't give a $*it about, or even think is just stupid or evil! The issue is that it is now common knowledge that burning a Qur'an pisses Muslims off, so using this method to dispose of one isn't the smartest idea, especially in a country where we need to gain trust in order to pull our troops out permanently. I will be more angry if thousands of our people died for nothing when civil war breaks out or the Taliban regain control. Even if you thought there was no point to invading in the first place, it would be worth even less if we drive Afghans to supporting Al Qaeda by continuously insulting their culture.
Marlene 1.10
You're incorrect. Yes, Judaism was indeed first and Christianity did spring from Judaism, but several century's later Islam originated from the pagan cult of the moon god known as allah. It was in the century after the death of Mohammad (poisoned by one of his slaves) that Islam adopted many of the tenets of the Hebrew bible in an attempt to gain legitimacy.
I say tough, let them be angry. they burn our bibles and our flags during every protest, and then B%^$H to hell and back when someone does it to them. Anyone that thinks we are going to change anything in the middle east with our presence over there, well let's just say they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer and leave it at that. they have been killing each other over there for thousands of years, and are not going to stop. the truth is they are barbarians. We need to just pull our guys out and let them go back to killing each other. at the same time put them and thier neighbors on notice, the next time the goverment protected terrorists strike at us we will return the favor a thousand fold. the hell with them
Special Forces was reincarnated after the Korean War. One of our missions was to get the "Brass." at DOD, to understand the concept of unconventional warfare(UW)and how to use it to our advantage. In the simplest terms, it means that you are able to understanding those with whom you will be dealing with-on both sides. That requires that you have more than a modicum of intelligence, are able to develop real insight into the needs and desires of people(in general and specifically to those you will be dealing with)and are able to treat everyone as human beings, from the start. That also includes respecting their religion, no matter you're own. To do otherwise, is counter productive and causes not only problems like these, but destroys every bit of respect that has been achieved by those who have invested greatly in building real trust and respect. Obviously, far too many have not learned a damn thing over the past, almost 60 years. It is easy to see why. Just look at the 'Donkey Dust' being spewed forth by our pandering politicians and their ignorant supporters. And, we apparently are so desperate for troops and leaders, that we will stick anyone into positions of leadership, without so much as a modicum of natural ability and intelligence. Secretary Gates started the attempt to get this turned around and it is now up to his successor, Secretary Panetta, to keep it going. I hope he does, for everyone's sake.
I do have a degree in Religious Studies and one in Ancient Civilizations and I have read and wrote extensive papers on the Quran and the religious text does not have extremist messages in it (read the article closely, it appears the detainees were writing messages of an extremist nature in their Qurans for other detainees to read). If you actually read the Quran you would understand the religion is about peace. The other thing most Westerners do not understand about the Islamic faith is after Muhammad died the religion was divided into two very distinctive sects over the controversary on who was to step into Muhammad's shoes as leader of the faith. Only one of those sects is the fanatics the press so loves to feed on. You never hear of the other sect that is all about peace which is the vast majority of Muslims in the world. The press doesn't like to report on people who go to work, pray peacefully, raise their children, and live good lives, how boring is that.
The other thing to mention here is the teachings of the Quran have been passed down in oral tradition from the first message. Muhammad could not write so he related the messages to advisors who wrote it down for him. Whether a person is illiterate or not in this faith they are all read to from the Quran daily. They must pray five times a day and those prayers are straight out of the Quran.
Another note is they understand more about the Christian Bible than a great many of today's Christians actually understand. The Quran is a continuation of the Old Testatment (which is from the Jewish religious text) and the New Testament of Christianity. Jesus is discussed throughly in the Quran and is held in very high honor. As a matter of fact, they don't believe he was crucified because he was more than a mere mortal that men could kill. It was a physical body and not Jesus the soul that was killed because the soul of Jesus is more than man. Now how many of today's Christians can say they are actively taught about the life and importance of Muhammad? The complaint isn't about Christians the complaint is that most Westerners today do not live a religious life and wallow in decadent lives (which decadent can be evaluated in a mulitude of meanings, it doesn't just mean wasteful in a monetary sense). Given that our country is trillions of dollars in debt and the average middle class doesn't even have a month's worth of salary in savings, maybe we should take a look at how we currently live. Are we truly living the life as described in our holy texts? I have throughly read the Bible as well and I can say no we don't as a Western civilization.
Do not let the press be your only point of knowledge on this religion because then you see people like on this post who are spouting opinions with only a fraction of the knowledge needed and therefore to those who do actually read outside the feeding frenzy of the media they appear illiterate and uneducated. Do not punish an entire religion for the deeds of one sect that claims the same religion although distorted to meet their needs. If we did this then Christianity as a whole has a tremendous amount of misdeeds and horrendous actions to answer for, i.e. the French Inquistions, the Spanish Inquistions, the European Witch Trials, the American Witch Trials, The Crusades, and I can go on for a very lengthy list. You don't want me to get me started on the Europeans who invaded Muslim territory (a vast Muslim community that lived in peace with all other religions, a culture that actually used Mosques for their holy services, allowed the Jewish to use the same buildings for their holy services as well as allowing the Christians to use it for their holy services, they shared so that all could practice their particular faith) so long ago because the Muslims were a much more affluent and intellictually advanced culture than medieval Europe so they wanted their wealth, to sum it up the Christians stuck the first blow to the Muslims over MONEY and goods.
No one has the right to burn the Quran just as no one has the right to burn the Torah or the Bible. Whether you agree with or follow a particular religion their holy scriptures are a matter of respect.
Sick of all the Apologies going on, especially from our Government..
Apologies mean nothing anymore, even in Afghanistan, where they don't know what an Apology is. They should be apologizing to the US Military, for making them stay there, protecting the Afghan's lives, never being able to get out of this War without shooting down our Helicopters, American dead Soldiers, and abuse.
I "Apologize" for making a comment---Ridiculous--
Bovine excrement, or an opinion not supported by facts.
'Suspicious minds': in search of "al-Lah" ( the Islamic rock star )
Mohammad: the prophet of "reformed" Arabian paganism
Trilogy of a Lie: Re - Submission'
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, is from a wealthy family in Nigeria, he was well educated, can his ideology be found supported in Islamic text, is he correct about the teaching of Mohammad.
if you click next, after opening this, there is an explanation from an Islamic scholar
This was the fate of the tragic Jewish tribe of Medina, the Banu Qurayzah.
﴿وَعَسَى أَن تُحِبُّواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ﴾
From ABC news
If this well educated young man, were to ask this, of a reliable Islamic scholar, what would the answer be?
Mr Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, had a scholar,who was fully vested by the elite of the intelligence divisions of the United States of America, his name was Anwar al-Awlaki
al-Awalki, may have referenced the "reliance of the traveller" a guide to sharia law, Al- Azhar university has certified it as an authentic source for theocratic Muslims to conform with the laws of the prophet.
http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~omnafees/temp/Reliance-of-the-Traveller.pdf.
From a Canadian university.
http://uwaterloo.ca/
this is the Canadian Liberal arts University who's site is hosting the book
page 335 lying.
Jihad is in fact permissible. Therefore lying in support of Jihad is obligatory.
Jihad page 275
Remember, Mustfa Kemal Ataturk abolished the caliphate , with the establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1922
this is "allah's" law, and can not be changed by mortal man
except under force of arms ( stealth bombers, Apache attack helicopters, Abrams tanks)
An excellent reason to remind us to stay out of the affairs of Muslims. They have been killin' each other for centuries, having more reasons than anyone else. They are not even satisfied when they are allowed to sort things out for them selves. Fortunately, the Muslims prefer to kill each other more than they prefer to kill infidels.
Jacques:
Exactly---you know ME History--and mentality of killing. Some day, they will wipe their entire UAE out. It's looking very bad, right now, especially in Syria, followed by Egypt, and then Libya---
The Slain family members will also continue to fight the fight against their own.
Jessica117...
Thank you soooo much for your deep conversation and brilliant analogies. The world is officially worse off for them.
So you and "many others" had huge problems with going over there and finding the people responsible for 9/11 with military action. REALLY?? So what, I guess you would send over negotiators to talk with them about what happened? See what their feelings are about the situation? Find out what was bothering them that day?? How the hell else do you get the people responsible for that? You send it troops. It's a good thing you were not in charge of this country when Pearl Harbor happened or we'd all be speaking Chinese right now.
And where exactly do you get your information that "they were willing to hand over Osama"? Pathetic statement and very much misinformed.
And guess what, when ANY foreign entity attacks us on our soil and kills THOUSANDS of people at one time, and you DON"T want to pick up a gun and go kill them, you don't deserve the freedoms you enjoy on a daily basis. If that makes people like me "little boys wanting to show how macho we are" than DAMN STRAIGHT I'm a little boy.
Do yourself two favors;
1) Wake up and smell the coffee that the world can be a very ugly place at times and there are people out there that spend every waking moment of their lives trying to find ways to instill terror, death, and destruction into every single one of our lives simply because we don't believe in the same religion that they do.
2) Pick up a Koran and read it. I have. You just might be shocked at what you find out your role is in the world as an "infidel".
charles 2.1 said in part; "Islam will prevent the people of Afghanistan from ever respecting the authority of America or that of any other foreign power. In their minds we are prejudged infidel."
'Authority'? What authority? Afghanistan's a sovereign nation. The people are irate due to the terminal disrespect of the presence of invader troops. The disrespect to the Q'uran is one more indignity.
The Spanish, in the 1500's iirc, butchered a city lord-or some such-in Mexico, after he dropped a Bible to the ground. The Bible meant nothing to him as the Q'uran did to most troops in Afghanistan.
Admiral Yamomoto knew what would happen after Pearl Harbor. He said the Japanese had awoken a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. The proliferation of weapons in the hands of the populace, and the determination to use them, was why the US couldn't be conquered. Same thing in Afghanistan. Heck, the British had first hand knowledge of that in the late 1800's. Rudyard Kipling wrote about it "and keep the last bullet for yourself". After dark the women came out to play with the Tommies. It was a period of time until the Tommies' screams stopped.
As for 'pre-judging'-its the same situation most Christians hold towards those who lack belief in deity/deities. Christians can't complain when, in the middle east, they're faced with the same attitude they deal out. Well, they will squeal live the proverbial pig, but they've reaped what they've sown. Its what happens when religion tops common humanity.
Re: "Jessica", Msg. # 2.21 - How can anyone have a meaningful discussion when people like you just make up history? Not a single representation in your message even remotely approaches the truth or any version of reality.
The Taliban repeatedly refused (and/or evaded) when asked to kick Al Qaeda out and/or to turn over Osama bin Laden, in the wake of 9/11. It was that refusal which prompted and justified the invasion, after multiple warnings, appeals and UN resolutions, which the Taliban rejected (on the basis that the UN had not recognized the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan and therefore could not dictate to it). Be mindful, too, that we entered Afghanistan with the support (and at the invitation) of the Afghan Northern Alliance.
You seem to be conflating that series of events with the offer, by the then Sudanese government, to turn Bin Laden over to Saudi Arabia (for subsequent delivery to the Clinton Administration) back in 1996. How Bush was supposed to accept that invitation, 4 years before being elected, or why he would do so, 5 years before 9/11, is left undiscussed and, instead, we are treated to your own, skewed and inaccurate version of history.
Of course, it is possible that you don't even know the difference between Sudan and Afghanistan, but that hasn't stopped you from pointlessly pontificating.
So, a friendly suggestion: Until such time as you actually know anything, maybe you should not inflict your ignorance on the world. It's simply embarassing. It really is.
Why all the theological crap? The books were left behind by inmates, they are now considered debris, and as such have been sent to waste disposal. It's not like there was a "Book Burning". It was burning trash...the books were in the trash. If the book is so holy, then the inmate should have taken it with him. So as I see it, they shouldn't be angry at U.S. military, they should be angry at the crappy ass muslims the taliban suspects tend to be.
Red Sailor post 2.47
Your ignorance is so common as to be nauseating. Have you been there? Have you visited with families and sat down to table there? Have you seen the smiles on the faces of the innocent little children? Have you been there to see people laugh and cry?
I suspect not. I urge you to go for your next holiday. I feel you will change your rigid and horrific tune after you do.
Really, genius? Where do you think the TALIBAN came from? They're Pakistani, and funded by the ICI in Pakistan. They've been there long enough now to appear organic, but in fact it's a foreign force that originated in Pakistan in order to destabalize the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan!
How about we do 2 things:
1. Stop making excuses when our soldiers do messed up things like pee on corpses or burn the nation's holy book who we are trying to win "the hearts and minds" of to begin with with this horrible failure of a statgey called COIN (counter insurgency, aka nation building, aka occupation, aka interventionism). It is self defeating to the expressed strategy and unbecoming of a soldier in our service to do these things.
2. Stop cheerleading for intervention, whether it's us or another country, because THAT IS WHAT CAUSED THIS PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH! Pakistan got involved, we got the Taliban; before that the English got involved and Pakistan and Afghanistan and Inia's borders were drawn totally arbitrarily with no regard to natural borders, local customs and cultures, and without mention that there were NEVER successful central governments in many of these regions previously (they just made these countries up to a large degree, especially the borders; pure inventions of an imperial intervener). Every intervention has made the people suffer more and cost us in blood and treasure. Let's stop cheerleading for the failed ideology of interventionism and start doing the opposite; noninterventionism. LEAVE THEM ALONE. It's not our problem. Otherwise we get unstable borders like in Khazmir (India/Pakistan) and Afghanistan/Pakistan...it's that simple.
But instead we neglect the facts of history entirely and cheerlead for more adventurism. A bunch a vicarious cowboys we are; too cowardly to go fight ourselves but not too cowardly to send other people's children to do it. And those who DO fight but think interventionism is the correct path...you deserve what you get; stop complaining. If you shoot yourself in the foot you don't get to complain to me you're short a bullet and need me to buy you a new bullet and a new foot.
ISI in Pakistan*
More blah, blah, blah, from a bunch of Idealistic Academics.
Why don't all of you go research what this Nation (Afghanistan) was like prior to the USSR 40th Army Occupation. As built up to the 20th Century in competition between the US and USSR to get the Afghans to be their Allies.
As far as the United Nations. I don't see all of you demanding that the US get out of the United Nations so that the US Military is no longer used as the United Nations Military B!tches: UN Mission after WWII for US to hold French Indochina (Vietnam) until the French could reoccupy their Former Colony., UN Mission Korea "Police Action", "Conflict" (renamed War, as ongoing)., UN Mission Vietnam ("Western Natons" support of South Vietnamese "Democracy")., UN Mission Somalia I and UN Mission Somalia II., UN Mission Iraq (Nation Building)., UN Mission Afghanistan (Nation Building)., upcoming offered (volunteered by President Obama) UN Mission Libya (Nation Building). And yes, that was Majority US Lives and US Taxpayer Money.
Jessica-1170252, ProIndividual-3906907,
Sure you know all about (NOT): a. Operation Cyclone from Firsthand Experience., b. The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban (origins, goals, support, etc.)., c. USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran's Role with Afghanistan since the Iran Iraq Wars., d. Islam (Politics, Laws, Beliefs, Culture, Religion, etc.)., e. Pakistan., f. Asymmetric Warfare from Firsthand Experience., g. Our Teams actions (Missions) attached to SAD/SOG here (Afghanistan) weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks., h. Conventional Warfare., i. etc..
Like I said before (post#1.64) especially:
LOL. Less than 3.1 months and most of us finally get to go back on Retirement again and this time NEVER to be Recalled to Active Duty again (and again and again) as "Too Old" after being involved with the "Middle East", Africa, Asia, South and Central Americas, etc. since the 1980s (the few of us that survived).
All you Academic Idealists with No Real World Life or Death Experience of the School of Hard Knocks "DEAL WITH IT".
By the way I am talking about Life or Death, What are you talking about.
piegan: History has not seen the barbarians and beasts as those from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.
By permitting some of them like Abudllahs right in the US, Britain and European nations, we have imported many barbarians and beasts right next door to us.
First we should get the next door Islamic religious Nazi beasts out and then go for the ones who want to kill us in the name of religion.
Now that is funny, they will burn copies of the Bible and use pages from the Torah for toilet paper, but dont you dare touch a single copy of their book.
Where are a few good men that need to urinate, when you need them... ha! Ha!
Bring the US Troops home, let the UN & NATO do the job they were given during Dec 2001...
Fire the US President that doubled and then doubled again the US Presence for POLITICAL reasons...
Let Karzi & his brother have the drugs and China can have the resources...
You mean George, it's too late to fire his worthless A$$, but perhaps in fact, he should be tried for war crimes, and his little dog too, Cheney.
Muslims are offended about the burning of paper? I will tell you what I am pissssssssssed about 1.burning of churches in Egypt 2.burning of churches in Iraq 3.burning of churches in Nigeria 4.decapitations of innocent civilians by religious muslims 5.suicide bombings by religious muslims 6.stoning of woman by religiousmuslims 7.persecution and murder of gays by religious muslims 8.female genital mutilation by religious muslims 8.religious muslims
bryan-2876208,
George Bush did what the AUMF allowed him to do, in TWO+months. This was in response to 9-11. So I'm assuming YOU would have done NOTHING...
The 'Nation Building' was the responsibility of the UN & 52+other nations...
Obama's increases have KILLED over 1,200+US Troops and accomplished NOTHING in Afghanistan...
17 October 2011 - This weekend marked a new milestone for the war in Afghanistan: the number of US troops killed in the war since President Obama took office is now twice the number that were killed during Bush's term, according to icasualties.org and our US Troops in Afghanistan: Obama vs Bush web counter. see http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/1043
You hit the nail on the head Balance da budget. Exactly why Muslims shouldn't be allowed in this country. They are not compatible with our society.
AC Robertson, how many troops have been killed in Iraq since 2001? WMD's? NONE. Both attacks on The World Trade Centers, happened under the so called guidance of ruling Bush's, Senior and Junior. At least under Obamas watch, we managed to take out the so called leader of the Twin Tower Attacks, Bin Laden. But, to quote Bush, "Brownie, your doing a Hell of a Job."(yeah, I know that quote dealt with Katrina, I lived it personally) Bush will go down as "THE WORST PRESIDENT" in America's History. And, I don't care what propaganda crap articles, or whatever lame debate you think that you can come back with, that, IS A FACT!!!
Apparently you feel the need to blame Bush for everything that has happened, will happen, could have happened, might happen, and is happening. How many terms are you going to shift the blame to an old administration?
Oh and just for the record, chemical warheads that were used by Saddam in the deaths of over 100 plus thousand Kurds, fitted for the stockpile of SCUD missles that could and HAVE reached Israel and were negotiated to be sold to Syria COUNT as WMDs Bryan.
The US President needs to be fired? There is an idiot born every minute and you were the one in your minute buddy.
bryan...AC Stop! Your BOTH right! Now do you both see our problem in America?
bryan-2876208,
Were you in Iraq??? Some of use were and know what was there. My former next-door neighbor is still suffering from the nerve damage caused by the nerve gas that was not there according to the US Media...
Heck, the US and UK sold the chemical and nerve gas to Saddam...
How do you justify the 1998 bombing campaign by Clinton if there were no WMD??? The 2002 AUMF referenced the same information that Clinton used...
The NO debacle was caused by YOUR LOCAL Politicians. The Federal response has to be REQUESTED and is at least 72+hours away. YOUR NO Politicians sitting on their collective A$$ and doing NOTHING while waiting for Uncle to do their job...
Come to some other states that deal with natural disasters yearly; Fla, NC, etc. You will not see the apathy shown by your fellow NO citizens. Or come to BKK Thailand and see how real people handle flooding...
Lame riley-1759556, Lame. So, what your saying is, we came in and executed Saddam because he killed ethnic Kurds in Iraq. My Brother was in the first invasion, and these so called scuds, they had less direction than a bottle rocket. They shot them off, and from there, who knew where they were going to go or land. Some of them even basically changed direction and shot right back at home. Another little tasty nugget for you, the US, under Ronny Regan, and his VP, yep, the very same Bush Sr., sold all sorts of nasty little weapons to both Iraq and Iran, unbeknownst to either country, until the whole affair came to light. The Iran-Contra Affair is the major reason for much of the unrest involving the US and the Middle East to this day, and unless you have your head in the sand, oil is the other big reason. And yes, I do blame the Bush family for not only the United States current problems, but the whole damn world too.
BALANCE DA BUDGET , yeah i am angry about the burning of churches in all these places too but i am much more angry about the slaughter of the christians in these countries which our msm never reports. oh an by the way msnbc is full of lies (just like fox), terry jones didn't burn the koran he only said he would and these people went on a murdering rampage. our government condemns our first amendment to placate these people and remains death, dumb and blind to the daily slaughter of ignorant infidels in the pure holy righteous "muslim world"
Bryan, you really miust be ignorant. Bush this, Bush that, He was not the worst president. Obama, the muslim pres, is worst. He is taking more of your money to rebuild countries that hold everyone hostage with oil. He says one thing while his hand is shaking our enemies hand. Forcing you to pay for med insurance for someone who is too lazy to get a job and provide their own. Obama reminds me of Jimmy Carter, and he will be remembered by history this way also. Nothing really good came while he was president. Everything was already in motion and he just let things take its course. Just 4 wasted years, when he could of done a lot more for the working man. Instead of kissing foriegners azz and big money.
For the current problems in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc...
Look at the Billions spent by Carter and his CIA, when they were supporting the Muslim radicals... see http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a78ciaafghanistan
As the former Defense Sectary Zbigniew Brzezinskistated, “What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?” I guess 9-11 answered that...
Greed made Bush II the worst president and stupidity didn't help. Obama is spending tax payer money in these countries because Bush II didn't have the knowledge to finish what he started . Seems like bush II's legacy is screw everything up, get out of office, live off the taxpayer for the rest of his life and give all the problems he started to the next incoming president to figure out what he couldn't.
Obama is doing a fine job considering he came into office facing two wars, the worst recession since the other republican Hoover, a balanced budget Bush II changed into the largest deficit ever, two unpaid for wars and borrowing billions from China to finance his tax break for the super rich. Obama's only problem, to many, is that he didn't fix all of this in just 3 years.
Republicans will lose the election just on the health insurance issue. When they tell 30 million Americans they can't buy health insurance for their families because it isn't profitable for the health insurance companies and try to change the law well, good bye republicans.
PS reading your irritating post would be more tolerable if you used the correct words, spelled properly and made sense. If you don't know any better then I will forgive you this time, but learn something for future postings.
Bryan..."WMD's? NONE." = WRONG!!!
WMDs were never found in the quantities intelligence suggested existed, but WMDs, the means and expertise to produce them were found:
WikiLeaks Show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq – With Surprising Results
By Noah Shachtman - October 23, 2010
(http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/)
“But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.”
Also here: US did find Iraq WMD
By DON KAPLAN - Last Updated: 8:57 AM, October 25, 2010
(Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/us_did_find_iraq_wmd_AYiLgNbw7pDf7AZ3RO9qnM)
OHHH- Like they've NEVER burned a Bible? Get real!
Remember when Obama said something to the effect of "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,"
He nailed the truth squarly on the head but he should have directed it toward the Afgans. The majority of them could care less about democracy, education, and individual rights. To them, freedom is granted by God and not by law so this idea that we are going to liberate them is so backwards it could be deemed insane.
So getting into traps in Syria and Iran or for that matter any Muslim nation is worthless!
Jonathan - humanitarian aid should not be dependent on a country's dominate religion. I think France's President Sarkozy, said it best (he was talking about Syria) that they are in a civil war and they need to decide the outcome for themselves. It is not for another nation to decide the outcome by shipping military weapons or personnel. As for Iran, they have been cooperative, they haven't had a war (that they started) since 1804. We must leave Iran alone. We have created so much animosity in the area, that any military action would only increase threats on military personnel in the area and more terrorists who hate the US because their family, who did nothing wrong, got blown to bits by an errant drone.
Muslims are just offended. Doesn't matter if paper, cartoons, restricted flights into buildings.
Black Kettle, and what did Sarkozy say about Libya ? Oh yeah that's where they get their oil. Yeah lets talk about Iran and Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran's just a poor pitiful innocent victim of the Imperialist US. You and your Muslim buddies need to get together in Washington and protest your govt. something I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with in any Muslim country of your choosing.
Bryan,
You do know the first time the trade center was bombed was during Clinton's presidency don't you? It happened two years after Bush Sr. left office. In fact there were more acts of terror committed against Americans both domestic and foreign during his tenure than there were during both Bushs and Reagans years put together, unless you have forgotten Oklahoma City, Columbine, the Khobar Towers and many others as well. Also if you are going to attribute the first attack on the twin towers to Bush Sr. then by your reasoning or lack thereof the second attack would have to be blamed on Clinton's policies since he left office that year. Although I think it is more likely due to the violent mindset most Muslims in the mideast have towards everyone else, but hey don't let the truth interupt you little rants. Blame it all on the Bushs and don't forget Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Eisenhower and any other Republican you want blame things on. Your so ignorant it would be funny if there weren't so many like you voting.
According to many village blog idiot's logic, they do not see a problem killing folks simple because they live in a country. Well, with that kind of logic we should have hunted down everyone related to Tim McVeigh or every light skinned guy with a crew cut. It clearly does not make sense to lump everyone into the same group and no one will EVER develop a way to even tell a Muslim from a non-Mulslim, so it time to give up all the unnecessary hatred.
Oh the irony. The few posts calling for respect for others' religions are downvoted to oblivion, while the ones calling for blood and religious bigotry are bumped to the top. Seems like people calling for religious tolerance are only tolerant of members of their own particular sect of religion
sickandtired-1089442, you should do a bit of follow up. Terry Jones' church did in fact burn a Quran. He and 30 of his followers were present when his Assistant Pastor soaked a Quran in kerosene and then lit a match to it. This took place in March of 2011 after promising in the previous September that he wouldn't disrespect another religions holy scripture.
AC Robertson post # 3 Hamid's half-brother; Ahmed Wali Karzai ( AWK) had his brains blown out last year. The Taliban took the credit for that dirty or "roll-of-the-dice" as the Mossad would say. A better question to ask is where in the hell did he stash the billions of dollars he made off his sale of drugs and the billions he and his brother Hamid stole from us? There was mention of it last year and not a word since. One would think that the DOD or Obama's buddy, Holder, who heads up the Justice Department would be sniffing that out. If they offer a reward, as they did for the head of Osama, then we can pack our bags, find a few N.Seals to tag along, and get the money back. 25% of the take would suit me fine.
All this does is demonstrate you are a religious bigot and think in your delusional view of the world that we are in some holy war. Worse, it shows you think tit-for-tat (like a child) is a responsible way to deal with someone who is a religious bigot against you and believes in their delusional view of the world that we're in some holy war.
Here's a clue: All your religions are delusional BS. You can believe in God (that's fine), but that has nothing to do with being one Abrahamic religion or another (Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all Abrahamic religions). Anyone who thinks some book is holy is an easily led sheep. Anyone who thinks their God is better than someone elses God is an egomaniacal weirdo. Anyone who gives two craps about factual, scientific, provable, rational, logical, reasonable history, economics, ethics, and philosophy completely reject religions as irrational, illogical, unscientific, non-factual, unprovable, unreasonable, and mostly unethical.
And that's from me; someone who believes in God.
Those who actually believe in a Creator, hear me: you are embarassing the rational and logical among you by acting so foolishly and blindly following the precepts of unreasonable religions. You make the atheists look MORE correct by acting like delusional children. No one believes your fairytales but you! The mythology may comfort you, but that's because you're afraid of the chaotic and unabridged truth...there is no heavenly "kingdom" because that would require a king (a tyrant). Stop making atheists look so good and start using reason (what God gave you) to rationally and logically come to ethical conclusions.
I'm pretty sure Jesus was against holy war...just saying, "Christians". You might want to set aside your HATE of other religions and start "turning the other cheek", "loving your enemy", remembering that "blessed are the peacemakers" (not the warmakers; read the Bible, will you?), and all-around just acting more Christ-like.
Christ didn't HATE. He didn't HATE muslims. He wouldn't have cheerleaded, or condoned cheerleading for, some holy war of retaliation against muslims.
But you aren't a Christian are you? You're a Neo-Crusader; one of those with a special place reserved for you...IN HELL.
bryan-2876208, Dick-2100935, = Political Hacks with no Firsthand Experience, attempting the FAILED Deflection of Blame Game.
Iraq:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq
Iran:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-strait-of-hormuz
AND:
About the Bogus "Budget Surplus", sure the Repugnant Controlled US Congress "Sandbagged" and Appropriated more money than President Clinton could spend.
THE REAL indicator of the US Economy is the Interest on the National Debt:
President Clinton: $18.9 Billion.
President Bush: $16.6 Billion.
Dicked up-2100935,
That Not Budgeted for President Obama Health Care Reform of $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion (adjusted for inflation) is the Cause of the current US Budget Deficit, with US Congress having to cut the previously Budgeted for things to "Find the Money" to pay for the Not Budgeted for $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion.
The Motive of President Obama as stated in his February 22, 2010 "The President's Proposal", and the Section of Source of New Revenues of the Health Care Reform Act; for President Obama pushing this, was to give the "Insurance Industry" $67 Billion, the "Medical Device Industry" $20 Billion, and the "Pharmaseuticals Industry" $23 Billion of US Taxpayer Money so that he could receive $1 Billion of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions (after his Buddy "Mr. Corporate America" Legal Briefed the US Supreme Court before the Citizens United case was even heard by the US Supreme Court).
Honestly, ask yourself, why didn't President Obama do what the long time advocate of Health Care Reform, Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted, which was like (modernized) the President FDR Universal Health Care For All US Citizens; as accomplished by getting the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession, as President Obama already knew that the problem with US Health Care is the Insurance Corporations, as stated by President Obama, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009:
By the way that fairy tale President Obama "Uncle Sam" is the US Taxpayers (for Generations from now).
What next, Dicked up-2100935, more Deflection of the Blame Game. (do not even attempt blaming Repugnant "Obstruction" or the Scrotums (Tea Party, aka Tea Baggers) as that did not even exist during the Democraptic Party Control (squabbling and in fighting among themselves)).
You want to start to fix the US Economy (instead of all mouth and no actions), read this:
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/22/6107088-the-current-global-economic-crisis
At the very least demand of the US President to do something (like I already did numerous times):
US President:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments
And Both House of US Congress (US Senate and US House of Representatives) Especially the Committees.
http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
The US Citizens deserve better than the left over scraps.
BKSC: I agree with you. Let the Muslims kill themselves. Let us enjoy on the side lines.
NO IRAN OR SYRIA or any nation as directed by Saudis and Israel.
It will give us time to recover. Then we can worry about the remaining.
I bet it was also a sincere apology and not for any other reason. I didn't know how to properly dispose of a Quran till after I read this article, not that I would ever have a reason to do so. It really doesn't make any sense to me that our country would invest all that life, time and money just to turn around and purposely sabotage it. Nothing wrong with showing the host countries religion some respect and courtesy.
"... with detainees apparently were leaving notes for one another inside them..."
WHY DID THEY DISCLOSE THE FACT THAT some U.S. military burn the Quran ??
Do they were expecting a some violent reaction from the Afghan countrymen ?
I don't know but now they went and killed two U.S. soldiers. Where I come from that is far worse than an insult to religion. I hope the U.S. Military lights that place up like a Christmas tree now.
Afghanistan has the 17th highest birth rate in the world (1-16 are all in Africa) and one of the poorest economies. Of course, this combination serves Islam very well, providing plenty of suicide bombers...
WE NEED TO GET OUT NOW!!!
You ever wonder why would anyone want to be a suicide bomber? Could you do it? What would make one do a thing like that?
We should realilize by now these folks are small minded and living in a gone era,so don't damage their books or rattle their ego. Just kick butt and get back home,we need you here on our own borders. I thank all our service men in that radical part of this world.
The GOP are small minded.
Liberals are close minded.
Both sides are vote mined, oil minded, and greed minded. If there is a resource of some kind in a country we want for some reason we are there at war. Does anybody really think that we are there to " free the people" of that particular area. Not really. Please get a world based mineral and oil deposit map and then lay a current map of where wars that we are involved in are going on.
LOL, small minded? Half the US doesn't believe in evolution. Welcome to the land of the small minded.
Simple mistake..they accidently were placed in the same stack as all the troops' Bibles that were ordered burned by the Afgan government.
AK.
Read the article. It was not the troops bibles that were burned. It was bible, written in the local languages, that were shipped there to try to convert Muslims to Christianity. It is a crime, in most Muslim countries, to proselytize other religions. The commanders did what needed to be done to abide by local laws.
It shouldn't make a difference whose bibles they were. It doesn't when it comes to the Koran.
Protests from people that execute Christian’s, burn bibles, destroy ancient religious relics and generally conduct themselves like the savages they are. These Neanderthals need a huge attitude adjustment before their recognized as actual human beings by the civilized world.
Excuse me, the Middle East, Egypt in particular, IS the cradle of civilization. Didn't you go to school? Our numeric system is Arabic, Dodos.
Those areas may have been the cradle of civilization but that was before Islam reared it's ugly head.
Those monsters won't abide a burning Quran and they don't mind killing a few thousand people over an action so inconsequential.
Marlane: 1 Billion Musilims, 14 million jews. How many Nobel Prizes (excepte Sadat for the Peace Prize) have Muslims won? How many for Jews? 185 Jewish winners, 22% of the total. Hmmm...
M,
Ignorance will kill all of us.
I agree with Marlane, I did a little research and found that Islam and the whole arabic system is quite influentials in our western society.
@Norm903: If you do some research before the whole nobel prizes you can see that the middle east has contributed to physics, biology, astronomy, anatomy even before the greeks, and many of the greeks followed their examples
Please quit disrespecting the Neanderthals.
Secondly, as backward as that part of the world is, and as foolish as the protests are over the accidental burning of a book, my question is--Can they even read? Or are they read to? Just wondering.
Yaz, yeah and look how they've advanced. Who cares what they've done in the past, since they've never moved forward. Education is non existent in Muslim countries
I'm drop dead Liberal with a capital "L", but the Afghans should of seen mushroom clouds on 9/11/01... so as far as I'm concerned they can count their lucky stars that they are even alive to STFU.
I apologize to the community, but that's the blunt truth. So get with the collapsing of this post already.
Are you kidding? We do the opposite of mushroom clouds.. we bend over backwards trying to be "fair".. how do you think news of the burning of these books even got out?
I guess even 8th century barbarians have a right to know according to the U.S. government. And if someone you love who is serving in Afghanistan is killed for it.. well, that's just fine to our government!
Mike, there are 35 MILLION people living in Afghanistan, virtually none of whom had anything to do with 9/11. How many of them do you think we should have murdered? All of them? Half of them? And do you think if would have ended there? I think you're taking genocide just a tad lightly. And of course if we had done that, it wouldn't have radicalized anyone, right?
The Bush Adm. (Cheney in particular) orchistrated 9/11.
XDullz obviousley you are not prior military and have not been over there. Some of the work on these bases is contracted out to foreign nationals.... many of whom are from Muslim countries. As the article stated some fo the workers saw them being destroyed and THEY leaked it out. General Allen had nothing to do with it. So stop being a douche bag and trying to tell a General... who has much more knowledge of the situation and people over there... not to mention more integrity than you have.
Saratosan we should have killed them all.
Maybe we should all just sit down and DO some shrooms, together. Can't we all just get along?
Yeah, sorry Mike. 19 of the 20 were from Saudi Arabia. I believe the 20th was from good ole Pakistan. Now, having said that, F**K Afghanistan, and let's get our soldiers home.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of the misplaced power exists and will persist."
Hey, I'm sorry, but I forgot to add that the quote above was from Dwight D. Eisenhower.
His farewell address to the Nation, January 17, 1961.
Really, marlane? And you have solid proof to back up your ridiculuous statement?
Was thinking that, here we are ready to pop smoke and some greedy pig tries to start a fight. Good call Bryan. Could have been as easy as a local or a disgruntled contractor that doesn't want to return home to unemployment. You just never know.
Thom, maybe just maybe the disposing of Korans should have been done by U.S. personnel only. OH, and you think this general knew anything about how these korans were being disposed of? LOL Yeah, right! You really are clueless..
You don't know @!$%# about me and you are talking about my integrity? That says just about all I need to know about you - complete douche bag.
Mike, I am a Liberal.
YOU are no liberal, but a lunatic.
HEY! MSNBC, don't ban me for calling Mike a lunatic - READ HIS POST.
People that mention their political persuasion (as if it adds anything to the discussion) or market their online stripper cam on newsvine should both be silenced.
I wonder how many of us, when disposing of what seems to be trash, would recognize a Koran as what it is? After all, it is written in Arabic, and to the untrained eye, looks just like any other old book. Soldiers sent to any Muslim area should be taught to recognize 'Holy Books."
Cancel the 2012 Preposterous Statement awards, we have a winner. Do you know how many people would have been required to be involved in a 'conspiracy' that big? Hundreds, if not, THOUSANDS. And yet ALL of them have magically kept the "secret" without a single person blurting anything out? Dohhhhhkay. ;) If someone can leak out info as trivial as Bush choking on a pretzel, I'm preeeeeeeeetty sure someone would have leaked out info about being involved in 'setting up' 9/11 by now...
I agree with you, Mike. When I first read this article, my mind flashed back to the huhbub that surrounded the burning of Elvis and Beatles records by Southern churches....I mean the Beatles were more popular than God, weren't they?
What can you say about Marlane, now you know why education is so important.
Why don't we just get out of there.
♫ Qurans roasting on an open fire ♫
Jim, do they sell egg nog over there?
Burning this holy book is inexcuseable. The only thing worse is believing in it in the first place.
So if you dont beleive then why in the world are you worried about it? Go crawl back under your rock Libby. Your pathetic comments arent needed here.
HOLY book??? You are kidding, right? Unless you consider the occult holy.
thom-661865, it is ignorant posts(your kind seem to believe that you are so much better, and God loves you more) like yours that basically led to the melt down of our country. People like you wanted a Repub in office so bad, and none of you cared if he was a good guy, a smart guy, or even gave the first flying phuck about our country or it's citizens. The only thing people like you care about, is getting a Redumblican elected President, no matter the cost to "OUR" country. 'Your' pathetic comments aren't needed here, after all, this is a "Liberal" news web-site bro.
The messia Obama reads the Koran so must be a holy book, right? Getting measured for the requried new uniforms when he's reelected and got the pencil sharpened for the re-eduation after the redistribution of wealth.bama!! Praise Alla O
Idiot.
Some of you "Christians" are even more scarey than any "Muslim" I've encountered in Afghan or Iraq. Yes, I've been to both. I believe in the 10 Commandments . . . especially the one that says, "Thou shall not kill." PERIOD! There is nothing in front of that or after that. There is no justification for killing. Man has tried to justify reasons to kill and that has NOTHING to do with religion (Muslim, Jew, or Christian). People came to kill Jesus and he gathered an army and started dropping bombs and then . . . oh, wait, no he didn't. Even to protect his own life, he never killed anyone or said it was ok to kill anyone or used any justification to kill anyone. So, once we get all those Muslim soldiers off our streets . . . oh yeah, there aren't any running armed in our streets. However, there are "Christian" soldiers in Muslim countries killing people (have been for centuries). If we live and let live, then maybe, just maybe, we would not be having this discussion.
BTW, why do we have so many "Christian" people in America carrying a gun? I remember, because we have almost 20,000 murders a year in our great "Christian" society. Maybe, if we ban christianity we could eliminate all those murders.
For the record, I do not own a gun and never will.
"Maybe, if we ban christianity we could eliminate all those murders."
Russia. Stalin. Athiest. ~11 million murdered.
It also says "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" as well and the Bible itself mentions stoning to death people for adultery and other 'minor' offenses...so what's your point???
The Bible was written 2000yrs ago and shouldn't be taken so literally. It's choc-full of laws and practices that are no longer relevant. If you are going to believe in the Good Word then you can't pick and choose what you like and what you don't, I'm sure you find polygamy and slavery morally corrupt but hey, they were allowed in the Bible.
I'm not anti-Christian or anything, just saying...
"BTW, why do we have so many "Christian" people in America carrying a gun? I remember, because we have almost 20,000 murders a year in our great "Christian" society. Maybe, if we ban christianity we could eliminate all those murders."
Ironically, the most moronic thing posted in this thread. If everyones carrying, the "criminals" are less likely to try anything stupid because they KNOW they'll get shot (Nothing to do with religion, btw)
You continue to not carry a gun, that's YOUR right. Just don't look to me when i exercise MY RIGHTS to have a gun. Especially when someone else with foul intentions and a GUN come to steal from you, attack you, or subjugate you
I'll be over here with my guns protecting my rights, my family and my life.
American, those darn Christians cutting off the heads of those infidels, crashing planes into bldg's, rioting because the bible was burned, oh they weren't Christians but peace loving Muslims gee I'm shocked, maybe since Christians are so horrible I should move to a Muslim country and enjoy all their human rights. Kayla, did you know that Christianity started with the birth of Christ and all the things you mentioned were from the Old Testament, just saying.
Muslim, Christian or Jew, the funny thing is that so many people believe in this nonsense that these sky fairies even exist. Face it, when you die that's it, finito, the end. Sadly, some people need to think they are 'going to a better place' We are all going to nothingness.
Be grateful for the time you are given on Earth. The only 'afterlife' are the memories others carry of you, when you are gone.
American-2232502 post 12.6
Good Lord. A Christian. Is that still legal in America? Bless Your Heart.
"The center has sewn resentment among Afghans..."
Darn those pesky homophones, anyway. Where is an editor when we need one?
Sewn? Sown.
Don't forget "sone"; a measurement of sound.
Homophones? Really? My phone is most definitely not a homophone..... LOL... Where are those pesky editors?
Please don't bring up the word, "homophones". You'll soon have idiots jumping on this board declaring that "homophones" are destroying America and they are causing all the problems in this country including, Afghanistan...lol!
Seriously, though, we need to get out of Afghanistan. The people haven't changed in that area for centuries now, and will probably never change. Poverty and ignorance are the real enemies here.
Silly Kris! There ARE some of us who ARE NOT dyed-in-the-wool libs who actually are probably more intelligent than THOU (and your hero Obama)! Also,Bryan. Cute. Almost humorous!
WTF? Why the hell are we even releasing this information to them???? Why doesn't General John Allen just take 10-20 of our soldiers and throw them out into that crowd and let them butcher our guys right now.. that's essentially what he just did by releasing this information!!! These people are all about blood lust and revenge..
General John Allen needs to wake the f*ck up and realize these people are not the type who would appreciate the openness and honesty .. to them it's just another justification to kill you.
In other news.. General John Allen woke up last week wondering how he could turn the cluster f*ck that is Afghanistan into an even bigger cluster f*ck..
He it came to him! TELL THEM WE BURNED THEIR KORANS!
Mission Accomplished General Allen! Obama will be pinning another star on your shoulder next week!
You need to go back and read the article again... and try comprehending what was stated. You obviosuely missed a lot of facts.
By the way good going on advertising your business by posting through Facebook. LOL
Regardless.. some armchair general was ultimately responsible for disposing of those Korans.. if they really did use outside laborers for something that sensitive.. how brilliant do you think that is?
I mean if there is just ONE job we should probably make sure gets done right.. THAT'S IT!
Welcome to America! We can put a man on the moon but we can't discretely dispose of Korans in a Muslim country!
The general in charge needs to be canned NOW!
Unless one of the books was Obamas personal copy in which case Obama will have the infidels head removed.
As far as i am concerned all those muslams are a bunch of infadels and were ordered slain a long time ago by god .............
By god? LOL
Thats the kind of generals obama wants so he can disgrace America. for his kin FOLK!
The word BIG FAT DUMB A$$ IDIOT COMES TO MIND, amabala1. If you are that effing stupid to believe that Obama appointed this guy to his rank, you are a truly lost cause. Go back to watching your fox news and listening to even bigger idiots like Hannity, O'Reily, and who ever else Faux News WAY OVER PAYS to spew their propaganda bullsh!t to the ignorant Americans like you, yes, the sheeple who believe all the bile they can dish.
Obama is 5 times the President that your loser George Bush could ever even think about being. And, by the way, get used to FOUR MORE YEARS of AMERICA'S PRESIDENT, that's right, FOUR MORE YEARS OF OBAMA. get used to it, you pathetic Redumblicans.
Bryan, Amen, Bro.
Sorry u2, Mr Obama will not get four more yrs. I'm the all seer-er and now knows who's going to be president. I will reserve my findings until certain people have sent their monies to me and then I'll let them know! At this point I'm not so sure we even need a president anymore. Hell haven't had one for decades why do we need to pay more people for nothing?
Get rid of all of the government and let the strong survive, this will be the only way this nation will be able to continue. We need to start minding our own business and taking care of our own. Keep our tax dollars here in America as right now we need them for our citizens and the illegals.
If they were so concerned about the Bibles being burnt why did the Muslims leave them there in the first place? Could be a set up to prolong the war in Afghanistan. Who knows, AHHHHH I know and why, "see second sentence and then you 2 will be a seer-er."
bryan-2876208--U R soooo right---obama is 5 times the president George Bush was--hell more than 5 times--obama has done probably 10+ times the damage Bush did and in half the time!!!!!! That was a brilliant observation!!! Keep up the great research--you are the man....\
Unfortunately we will not get ther benefit of obama for another term--we will have to go back to the Constitution and our country will actually start prospering again once a true Conservative gets into office...
Dear lord, bryan... I think you're frothing at the mouth a bit after that rant. I'm going to assume you're trying to be a straw man for the right to hate, or you're just trolling. What you said was not illuminating in any way and offensive to anyone who does not agree exactly as you do. Elitism is scary on either side
To put it simply, Obama sucks.
Glad you like him, 'cause he's there until 2016, when the Clintons return to the White House.
You fanatical ideologues are always good for a laugh Bush and Obama are brothers from another mother. If either one of them were worth a sheet why are we in the shape we are in?
17 isn't a great comment, bryan-2876208, but you've had a rough few days. You're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Many of these people are fanatics who go ballistic when their 'holy' book and other religious paraphernalia is "desecrated." I believe Muslims (and zealots of other faiths) overreact when their 'holy' objects are destroyed.
But geez, you'd think that after more than 10 years, NATO would have learned something about not offending the masses in Afghanistan.
I guess you've never seen a fanatic televangelist? HAH!
Most don't chant "death to foreigners"
Though in all fairness I'm sure some do.
Obama hasn't learned how not to offend the masses in the US so why should NATO. After all, Afghanistan society is no less alien to NATO than American society is Obama.
That is why I love America. Protest over burning books? I mean, they are BOOOOOOOOOOKS, the words have the meaning, not the actual book themselves. When people protest burning books, it is a clear reminder that the Afghans are still centuries behind other nations.
These people ARE barbaric. I'm so sick of hearing "it's a peacfull religion" Religion is fine if you feel the need, but we are all Infidels to them and the Koran says "kill the Infidels" How is that peacefull? I say get the hell out of there and every other Arabic Country. Let these people go back to living like they choose...where Women are stoned for not covering their face, can't drive, can't go to school, are killed if they don't produce male children, ...it goes on and on. This is the religion Hitler and his ilk should have tried to rid the world of.
JohnT, funny thing is they were allies of Hitler, what a surprise.
Don't forget they are the major supplier of heroin in the world . If the U.S. did the smart thing they would have destroyed the poppy fields.I asked a friend of mine what it was like in asscrackistan. He replied" imagine blowing up a landfill and sending a bunch of homeless people to go clean it up".My attitude is F-u Karzi and the rest of you ungrateful inbreds. Your pathetic excuse for a country is not worth one American life.
Too bad the child molester Mohammad is already dead, they could have burned him too.
they burn our bibles and kill and beat christians there- I hate to tell them they are doomed to hell anyway as they refuse Gods son so thier book wont get them into heaven only into hell---- BUT respect should be given to thier book if they give it to ours--- we need to pull out let them kill each other that is all they know to do anyway-
gwarth2, according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, only 144,000 people will make it to Heaven. Where does that leave the current 7 Billion occupiers of Planet Earth?. Oh wait, nobody believes in those crack pots either.
Bryan, that's actually not true. There are 144,000 "select," but they believe in salvation for others as well.
gwarth2, If that's all they know how to do...I wonder how they survived all those centuries with America not being around? As for all of you who can't or don't want to understand that some people in this world don't want your way of life, don't want your religion and most of all don't want your soldiers on the turf for decades killing their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers and children while attempting to "show" them that you know what's best for them...heck, you don't yet know what's best for yourself. How would you all feel if a foreign power much stronger than America came in and did that to you and your loved ones for decades? What would you do about it?
Hey General, don't you have anything better to do,like order a drone strike on the ragheads. Pull out of that s--t hole now.
the liberals will never understand this stuff will they...lol.....They piss on a bible here, then protest a koran burning over there!...
Hey, StuporBrain, you would be so surprised at how many Liberals follow the Bible way more faithfully than you so called Cons(ervatives). Get over putting stupid ass labels on people who don't view the world exactly as you do, you might actually learn something. And, the next time you breathe Fresh Air, Drink Fresh Water, Walk in a National Park like Yellowstone Park, thank not only a Veteran, but a Liberal too, as they made it possible for you to do so. That's right, Liberals are responsible for so many freedoms and choices that you now currently have, whether you like that or believe that or not, it is a FACT!!!
Is that insulting comment really called for, bryan? I don't think so.
The bible includes the verse Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 which pretty much lays out the law on homosexuality. I doubt the "liberals" are "following the bible" any more than "conservatives" by supporting such behaviors. I am not against homosexuality but then again ... I'm not a follower of the teachings in the bible. There are plenty of things in there that are justified from physical spousal and child abuse to slavery.
You cry about labels and then use them yourself. This is hypocritical. Your entire response is essentially your own opinion which is based in that hypocrisy and ignorance.
If you want to thank someone for fresh air and water, thank the miracle of the creation of the solar system over billions of years that made this particular planet inhabitable for life with oxygen and water.
What you call FACT isn't fact at all.
Los Angeles in the early 70's, yeah, that was a bastion of fresh clean water and air complementary of the miracle of the solar system? And I never once stated any thing about homosexuality in my post above. But, since you brought it up, I work with two people who are openly gay, and, they are more religious or spiritual in their beliefs and actions than any bible thumping republican I have ever known. Go figure huh. And by the way, if it weren't for so called liberals, big corporations would be able to spew out as many toxins into the air and water ways as they cared to do, all for the name of profit. Research L.A. in the early 70's and look at pictures of the sky line, oh wait, you can't, because the sky line is blotted out by SMOG. Fast forward to today, and guess what, you can actually see the sky line, Thanks to Liberals who fought big corps to put caps on smog. And unless you are to young or to blind to recall Acid Rain, that was another pleasant surprise forced on unsuspecting Americans all to further some one elses greed. FACT. When giving Thanks, Thank a VET, and a LIBERAL. And yes, as I said, whether you like it or believe it does not actually matter, because that is a FACT.
Byran, your original argument was purposefully vague. You said "clean water" and "clean air" and now you want to talk specifically about Los Angeles and smog? You're ridiculous.
The Westboro church loonies can be considered "more spiritual" and "more religious" than most people as well. So what? "If your gay friends are Christian they are following a bible that said their behavior is deserving of death. That's a FACT. Did they print a new bible for their new Christian faith that leaves out all the bad stuff?
You don't know the difference between opinion and fact.
Why do you keep sniveling about "thank a vet"? I don't need to thank a vet. Why would I "thank a vet" for the things mentioned in this post? Why don't you thank a multi-national corporation for the computer you are on?
Your arguments are all over the place. Why don't you pick a single topic and deal with it using logic and critical thinking skills vs. your knee jerk reaction to the original post?
You whine about labels and then proceed to still use them.
Personally, I don't think you are very bright and have little to offer as a response so please don't bother.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why this country is failing.
You have two sides that constantly blame one another for all of our woes and then believe that they are the ones trying to save the country.
Sammy Johns, excellent post, Bryan seems to have a flair for the dramatics as well as a vast knowledge of Conservatives. He seems quite certain that Conservatives prefer dirty air and water. BTW Bryan anyone can call themselves a Christian.
I wonder how many of these postings would change were the headling: Pakistani's burn a copy of the King James Version of the Bible? What... oh...that's different? Hmmm...depends on from what aspect you are viewing it....as a Christian... .as a Muslim? It is their sacred book people....just as the bible is that of others...respect it and those who defend it.
ksssenior, where were the riots after they burned those bibles? Keep trying to compare Muslims with Christians it's always good for a laugh.
Keep our internet CENSOR FREE, It is still America is it not? The Left wing media can continue to filter the truth in the papers and on network TV but here in the land of the Free minded net. Freedom must RING
OMG, Really? The Left Wing is responsible for censorship? Guess what, you wouldn't have things like Playboy, if it were left up to you uptight, panties all in a wad up your a$$ conservatives. And I guarantee, 80% to 90% of you so called republican conservatives, have a porn collection that would embarrass Debbie.
Ferchriiisake bryan, what's up? You are starting to rant like a brain with syphilis. Especially with references to Playboy and Debbie.
""" 'Your' pathetic comments aren't needed here, after all, this is a "Liberal" news web-site bro.""" And thus, you are censoring, making it Left Wing censorship.
Any group (s) that scream and holler at each other like madmen are the same, irresponsible. This cult-like crap must stop if the world is to progress.
Enough of this PCBS lets burn some more
There is no left wing censorship, no left wing racism, no left wing intolerance, no left wing dogma and no left wing extremism.
The above are all in the imagination of the rightie scum who try to justify their own narrow minded pathetic mentality by projecting it on others.
As for the topic at hand, I see no point in going all the way over there to "Help" these people and then burning their religious books and/or killing their civilians in retaliation like what happened in Hadith and other places.
Especially when at the end of it all, we end up holding the bag for trillions of dollars in expenses, thousands of our own deads and these people hating us even more than they did before we went to "Help" them.
If you have to fight a war, fight a bloody war, get the job done and come back. If you have to "help" them, then help them and don't burn their religious stuff and don't kill their people wantonly.
Doing both of the above is a stupid no gain, only pain kinda exercise that helps nobody and hurts everyone.
Sorry MrIndia... those traits are universal
LOL...too bad the saps don't know about this...LOLLLLL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo&list=FL6SdG1XNo1CA_33Uib5zxWw&index=20&feature=plpp_video
I have not figured out how to reply to someone on this thing, I usually just put my 2 cents in and leave. But hey, Charles the Hammerhead, you sound smarter than the guys running the show over there, you should apply for the job. I agree we should get out of Afghanistan. The longer we stay the more damage we do, it seems.
I say vote for Obama, and he'll put an end to this war.
It's time to pull out of the middle east altogether and et them fight it out amongst themselves, and by pull out I mean telling the spoiled child called Israel to take a leap as well and that means taking away their welfare payments as well.
MrIndia still good for a laugh. Disgusted, as soon as you pull out maybe we will think of pulling out of Israel, on second thought nah long live Israel!