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Updated 3:28 p.m. ET: The Red Cross said on Saturday it was still unable to evacuate civilians from the embattled Baba Amro district of Homs, as the Syrian military took its bombardment of the rebel-held area into a fourth week.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said there were "no concrete results" from its negotiations with both Syrian authorities and opposition fighters.
"Unfortunately we will not be able to enter Baba Amro today. We continue our negotiations, hoping that tomorrow (Sunday) we will able to enter Baba Amro to carry out our life-saving operations," said spokesman Hisham Hassan.
Opposition activists in Homs complained they saw no help coming from an international "Friends of Syria" conference in Tunis on Friday and said the world had abandoned them to be killed by security forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad.
"They (foreign leaders) are still giving opportunities to this man who is killing us and has already killed thousands of people," said Nadir Husseini.
Despite the bloodshed, Assad is staging a referendum on Sunday on a new constitution that he says will pave the way for a multi-party parliamentary election within three months.
Security forces killed 61 people on Saturday, including 19 in Homs, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
Sources close to the ICRC negotiations said talks failed due to confusion amid heavy shelling and bad communications with fighters and state forces. Much of Homs, and other opposition areas in Syria, are in a communications blackout with phone and internet connections cut off.
Damascus said it condemned all statements at the Tunis conference, which it dubbed "the enemies of Syria meeting."
"Syria deplores all voices calling for financing the armed groups which could lead to support for terrorism and hurt the interests of the Syrian people," Syria TV reported.
NBC's Richard Engel reports.
State news agency SANA reported the funerals of 21 members of the security forces killed by "armed terrorist groups" in Homs, Deraa, Idlib and areas near Damascus.
At the conference in Tunis, Western and Gulf Arab nations mounted the biggest push in weeks to end the violence, calling on Assad to cease all violence and allow access for humanitarian supplies.
Saudi Arabia's finance minister called the idea of arming the opposition an "excellent idea".
But activists in Homs, a city of over 800,000, said the Tunisia meeting was a failure that brought no relief from the bombardment.
"I don't understand what they are waiting for. Do they need to see half the people of Syria finished off first?" said a doctor speaking anonymously from the restive town of Zabadani.
"The people of Zabadani resent what happened in Tunis. We need them to arm the revolution."
The ICRC said its local partner, the Syrian Arab Red Crescent, had been able to carry out two evacuations in areas of Homs other than Baba Amro on Saturday.
But Husseini said people in Baba Amro were suspicious of the the Syrian Arab Red Crescent and did not want to work with a group "under the control of the regime."
Rebels plead for weapons to make their vision of post-Assad Syria happen
The ICRC said the Red Crescent was independent and its members were risking their lives to help people affected by the violence.
A video uploaded by activists showed smoke curling up from buildings hit by rocketfire in Homs' Khalidiya district. Nearby, crowds carried six bodies wrapped in white shrouds, shouting "We swear to God we will not be silent about our martyrs."
"We have hundreds of wounded people crammed into houses. People die from blood loss. We just aren't capable of treating everyone," said Husseini.
Russia and China, which did not attend the Tunisia meeting, oppose Security Council action and there is little appetite for military intervention in Syria.
The opposition has called for a boycott of the referendum, deriding Assad's reform pledges and demanding that he step down.
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu questioned how the vote could take place in the midst of so much violence.
"On one hand you say you are holding a referendum and on the other you are attacking with tank fire on civilian areas. You still think the people will go to a referendum the next day in the same city?" he asked at a news conference in Istanbul.
Davutoglu, whose country has turned strongly against its former friend since the Syrian revolt began in March, said Syria should accept an Arab League plan that calls on Assad to quit.
In Baba Amro, activist Omar in Homs said the referendum meant nothing to the opposition and those hit by unrest.
"No one is going to vote. This was a constitution made to Bashar's tastes and meanwhile we are getting shelled and killed. More than 40 people were killed today and you want us to vote in a referendum? ... No one is going to vote."
U.S. President Barack Obama said on Friday it was time to stop the killing of Syrians by their own government.
"All of us seeing the terrible pictures coming out of Syria and Homs recently recognize it is absolutely imperative for the international community to rally in sending a clear message to President Assad that it is time for a transition."
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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The world may have abandoned you, but Jesus hasn't.
you mean Allah
who ever they believe in. It's still funny
lol...
Wait a minute!
Most of the times, these Sunnis know only: "death to America", "death to infidels" and so on.
Now Saudi Arabia and its puppet Arab League should send their forces and help them just as they did in Bahrain.
What the world has to do with the Sunni religious bigots?
We have taken enough of riots, terrorist activities and garbage from their Saudi funded Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques in our streets, states and nations.
If Shiite ruler is blowing them up, let the brave Sunni rulers who battle women and minorities help them.
While helping them, if Quran is burnt then there will be Afghanistans!
When they need the help we are "the world" after we help liberate, do we go back to being the infidels?
Yep when the Shea hits the fan they beg for the Christian Infidels help.. And once we are done dying and do gooding they go right back to the cult and then it's death to the infidel crusaders.. Bet a lot of them donated money to Hamas the Taliban and any other Jihad group that was killing US soldiers..Cry to your rich brothers of peace loving Islam..
Guess nows the time of B.O. to pick up the phone to King whatever of saudi land and make a deal, "let's get America's gas price down to 1.50 a gal. and we'll come help out".
but he won't, because his agenda is to keep fossil fuels as high as he can, and he doesn't care that American children are going hungry today, because their parents are spending every last dime on heating the house and driving to work.
JustenO, you do realize that the POTUS does not and cannot control the gas prices correct? As for the situation in Syria, I'm torn. Yes, they hate us. No I don't want to get involved. BUT, it's tough to just sit back & watch at the same time.
Maybe Barak Obama should just APOLOGIZE to the Syrians, which is what he does best because he's had so many rehearsals. I'm sure he can dream up some far-fetched connection between the plight of the Syrians and something the US did to cause the problems in their country.
Or he could just blame George Bush or the Jews or the Republican Party for the current state of affairs throughout the Middle East. Obama has a lot of options in his bulging bag of excuses. So, I'm sure he can find something to APOLOGIZE for.
That's pretty sick if Jesus is just sitting around watching this massacre. Hardly befitting for the actions of a savior. Let's just dismiss it as "mysterious ways"; another term for "deadbeat dad".
It could be that the term Arab spring has less to do with overthrowing dictators, (because these people will just install a government thats even worse than the one it replaced), and more to do with the global awakening that islam is the common factor in all of these sharia @!$%#holes, and will still be the problem after the current regime is gone.
Maybe the rest of the world are one ones having the awakening--that there is no reason to risk the lives of our people to save others that will just turn like rabid dogs, the second their side comes to power.
And if the govt is overthrown, the muslim Brotherhood takes over and murders the Christians.
Im so so sick of the mideast people and their ignorance. Those peaceful citizens will have to fight for their country and freedom..... Send in nato....but keep our troops out and bring home all in the mideast, cut off all, support, aid and remove all equiptment now.
obama must keep the military busy because they have no jobs to come home too
the government can regulate the cost of gas. if they can tax it (trust me you pay tax at the pump per gal) they can regulate it. just wondering HOW much federal tax, and so on the government gets, from point A to point B just how much we actually pay before government double dipping goes on.
Personally, I am fed up with the whole mess. I'm am tired of all the killing of innocent human beings. I am tired of getting spit in the face from the very people we help because, in their words, we are infidels. I am tired of chants of "death to America". I am tired of our flag being burnt. I am tired of these fanatics telling us to get out of their countries. The dog has bit the hand that has fed it for so long that only the stub of an arm remains. I now say"stop ALL foreign aid to all countries and mend our own fences here at home and Obama stop apologizing to these murderous cutthroats that only want to see the heads of Americans on silver platters. PLEASE!"
not to mention what happend to all this oil Nobama was supposed to be "injecting" into the economy to keep the cost of oil/gas down? Face it, Wallstreet handed Nobama a bunch of healthy stocks/investments, made a few faces for show, and a great laugh at our exspence after. face it, until we get the rich out of government and start putting in honest middle class we will never see anything done from either side to promote this country other than its abundance in tax dollars to make back stabbing buddies.
The only way America will see lower gas prices indefinitely is when it stops paying the middle east for crude and develops a new energy source. All the Presidents can APOLOGIZE (bad word in caps) for keeping the nation tied to these corrupt governments and not laying the path towards independence. I always believed in America's ability to out smart, out create, out innovate, yet the USA is still sucking crude from a baba.
New energy is like the first flight, the first satellite, or the first atomic bomb. If America ever becomes smart again, they will figure out how to keep engines running without fuel from others.
Chop off the head of the snake........... Then let everyone sort out their collective differences.
Ok, even though this story is about Syria I have to respond to the posts about gas prices.
There is no shortage of oil
There is no shortage of refined products
The price of crude is going upndur to speculation and fears of unrest in Iran.
There is nothing the President can do
There is nothing the Saudis can do
Invading Iran though WILL send the price up even more and frankly the unrest in Syrai isn't helping either but all in all it's just the speculation?
If your going to complain about gasoline prices at least LEARN hom the oil market operates. Oil is a commodity and is traded on the 'free market'. Ok I guess the President COULD regulate the free market. Hmmm wonder just how that would go over?
DSB-A friend of mine at an oil company said that part of the problem of oil is that its getting harder to find and process, that also is part of the gas prices. Its a situation where you have a limited resource, not an endless one as people seem to believe.
JESSICA Obama can do something about the gas problem....they did in the late 70's when we had a mess with fuel prices and supply. Put a price freeze on it and to heck with the speculators.
no one seems to be helping the Syrian rebels overthrow their evil monarchy? Well get over it! The rebels don't control a single oil field so they can forget on help from us unless and until they have some black gold to bring to the table at which time we will be more than happy to intervene on the Democratic seeking freedom fighter's behalf.
The united States needs to sit tight. China and Russia are blocking the way. We can not afford another war both fiscally or emotionally. For the US to take the next step at this time could produce the next world war. I believe that people are basically good and that any mother (US or SYRIAN) feels the same pain when her son is killed. We can NOT step in at this time, period. We do not know the agendas of those seeking support either. Two articles, one right after the other about Syria, appear to be posted to draw out the humanity in us. I for one am very curious as to the rational of China and Russia. We have not been successful when we barge in with "good" intentions, maybe we need to act instead of react this time.
For those that think we are horrible human beings for not rushing in to help, your idealism would help no one. How would you feel if we did that and found we had backed the wrong people?
For those wondering where God is now, he is watching. He gave us one of the greatest gifts of all...FREE CHOICE! Some say the Innocent do not have a choice, they do. They can leave or they can rise up in mass. There is no stopping a mob that over runs the palace. You can not kill them all nor should they have to die. Man has through the eons used war as their choice. The freedom that is desired begins in the heart and spreads through the population. It also comes with a price that is equal the gain.I bring you the fervor of the burning of a book, do you not feel that freedom is greater cause?
Where are Syria's neighbors, Turkey, Jordon,Israel and Iraq? (Perhaps, they know the result would be worse than the current situation) Wouldn't they know better than we? Of the four, only the people on the border with Iraq are offering help. We are NOT the world police and Syria is NOT our ally!
i remember the 70"s, it's not that as much it is obama and his "F" in green energy, he said he will stop the dependency of opec oil, what a better way than jack up the price and hell with America, i told the people of America that i can do it, never said he was going to "F" us. so go right ahead and vote for the blackman. how you all like hope and change. thats what you have left out of your 50 dollar bill change after you leave the pump, or the 100 dollar bill, he isn't done yet, someone has to pay back the tax's that solyndra went belly up on, and they are retired now, obama's friends.
Jessica, the president CAN control the gas prices, sheesh! My brother is an executive VP at an oil company and has said that all Obama has to do is put an export tax on oil leaving the US. Do you know how much of OUR oil is shipped overseas??? Check it out! Obama WANTS the gas prices to stay high!
do not worry you have muslim brotherhood and evil salfeen (believe in saudi arabia )and do not wory they will take the syria very soon and they will put sharia law like in each country now in the middle east
jesus please help christains in the middle east with that evil is coming to them
NATO was their for the Lybians with Russia & China sitting on the sidelines. So NATO could do the same this time without the US. The ,NATO, has the air resources to take out the tanks and the "Syrian Thug" that runs the country.
You must all be so proud of yourselves. The story was about the murders of thousands of human beings, and all you effing a-holes can blather on about is oil and your fanatical ideologies. It disgusts me that I have to tolerate you as fellow citizens of our country. But I guess that's still more than I can say the rest of you are willing to do for those you disagree with. Bravo.
The Russians and China are just waiting for this mess to clear than go in and be a big presence and just kinda take over. Ya know pick up the pieces and contraol
FinallyProud....So what are you doing to solve the situation? I can't control anything in Syria or any other country,so I concentrate on my city and county.Try going down to your local foodshelf,soup kitchen or homeless shelter.After a few visits you might realize our own citizens are suffering also.I tend to worry more about the people that live in my community than I do other countries.At least i'm helping and not ashamed of tolerating my fellow neighbor.
So what have you done to stop the thousands being killed in Syria? Try helping your neighbor before you condemn others on a message board.
The US reaction to what's going on in Syria is a good example of how confused American foreign policy can get. Many American politicians like to talk a big game about "freedom" and "democracy" and the blessings of a "free market" etc, etc.
But, then, without missing a beat these same politicians spend decades supporting dictatorships with the excuse of "who knows who'll take over if these dictatorships are toppled".
The whole thing is so bizarre, so pathetic. It clearly shows the US doesn't know what is doing and, yet, it wants to really show it knows what is doing even if they contradict themselves. So all kinds of excuses are made to rationalize a situation that simply can not be excused.
There's no consistency in US foreign policy. None whatsoever. The only consistent thing about it is that American politicians will pick and choose an "enemy" for the sole purpose of winning votes.
What's even sadder than these two-faced politicians are the people who allowed themselves to be played by these politicians and vote for them.
In my case, for example, I come from a Palestinian family and it amazes how many Americans love to talk about the value of private property, the value of following the law, the value of immigrats coming to the US legally, and the value of the separation of state and church. And, yet, many of these same Americans will find excuses whenever Israel takes over our private property, transfer people to those properties who were born outside of the area with no regard for any immigration law whatsoever, and then excuse all of this by citing the Bible!
They're allowing Israel to mix state and church by citing the Bible so they can excuse the taking of private property by the state of Israel so they can transfer illegal aliens to that property!
Can you see what I'm getting at? Can you see how all this gets many Arabs ans Muslims upset?
And when we get upset people here are like, "What's the problem? You don't like our freedoms? Are you upset at our impecable political ssytem? How dare you?!"
The way I see it the US simply has way too much power and because of it, it can make all the mistakes it wants and then blame others for it. A very, very comforatble situation for Americans and its freaking politicians.
In my opinion, that's nothing to be proud about.
first get rid of NAFTA, charge tax on export & imports.2, cut out aid to other country's,3, bring all troops out of harms way. 3get rid of lobbyist and limit campaign contribution's to $1000.00 and make a law that says politiions keep 97% of there platform promises, 4. use the money we save to rebuild America,s roads, bridges, dams. take 30% of NASA money and put it into alt, fuels research, this would be a good start
Syrian activist (Rebels) -- you started a war you were unprepared for, did you REALLY think Assad would dry up and just leave you to take over his country?? If I were you, I'd pray to allah and kiss your backside goodbye. You continue to use your fellow Syrians as human shields to protect yourselves and complain when they die protecting you. Even your fellow tribesmen and fellow terrorist are unwilling to give you any assistance unless the Great Satan U.S. and the Western Nations (who you have killed and bombed) come to your aid and rescue your sorry selves.
The whole middle east is a pandoras box of damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. It is unfortunate that we depend on such unstable people and countries for our energy supply. The Islamic people will always fight and kill others including other Islamic sects, this whole 'religion' is inherently violent and intolerant no matter what many of the Muslim population may say. I wish we could merely walk away from their whole situation and let them slaughter each other as they so desire but the catch 22 is that we depend on these countries for our energy. The resultant actions have been mostly to try and keep at least some stability to this region otherwise we would have a truly hard time getting energy from other places. What I don't get is that we are their customers, buying their oil, yet their extremists are offended by us and come to kill us with a bloodlust similar to Vlad the Impaler. Why do they bite the hand that feeds them? Don't they think about this? We could send them back to the dark ages whence they came just by not buying their only major commodity feeding them, oil. They have a duty to themselves, in order to keep eating, to hunt down their extremist elements and quash them, but that won't happen as long as they know they have us over a barrel. Also, unfortunately, we don't have a viable replacement for the energy content of oil either. I guess the best we can do is to is find more oil that doesn't come from this hotbed of turmoil and unstable people.
NoObama Your from Tennesseeeeeee too, lol
Here is a link for you and about you:
http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
The problem is, based on this study you will not have the ability to process this information, it will fry your brain.
Syrian Activists:
Yes, the US has abandoned your country.
The United States cannot settle the problems of the entire Middle East. Our people who go in there, just like the American Journalist murdered there, will never come back home alive. What guarantees that your people will protect the American Military from harms way-the slaughter is extremely hard to watch. Your President Assad is Hitler.
Do you remember Hitler of Germany. No one could kill him. He just took a pill to rid himself of the oncoming World War II Soldiers, knowing he was going to die. Why doesn't Assad do the same?
The Slaughter must be stopped. Ask your friends from the entire Middle East to help--are they? Do they care about your Killing Fields?--They are the most lazy, uninterested group of people to watch their own brethen being tortured, beheaded, and killed; without a blink of an eye.
Ask your family, the Arab States. We have enough Wars killing our American soldiers already that have been futile.
I am sorry to see innocent victims killed; especially children and their Mothers--Is there no care for Humanity there?---A few words from our Leader would probably give you comfort knowing we "do" care.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, hopefully for the last time. OBAMA CAN'T "DO" ANYTHING WITHOUT A BILL THAT HAS PASSED CONGRESS HITTING HIS DESK. Jesus. He could pass an executive order, but then everyone bitching about how Obama should "do something" would bitch about his "breach of proper protocol and his abuse of power." YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Here's an idea: Tell your Congressional representatives to get their asses in gear.
truth is, even if it hurts:
Religion isnt going to help
religion got them into this mess
god is a monster
MOVING ON!
Fact of the Matter: Your comment is the best comment i have read on this board! Total truth and yet no one will listen. Everyone thinks that Obama can control everything yet when he tries they call him all kinds of names and say he is going to far with his power. I absoutely hate double faced people. Everyone on this board who is bashing Obama are just like the Republicans who during the first week of Obama's presidency was saying he will be a one term president without even knowing his policies! It is sick that America is still so Racist that the first president who is not 100% white gets abused before his time is over. I would rather have Obama than Bush any day!
people who talk about God and Jesus like he is watching TV on the couch need to grow up. God gave man free will and this is what we did with it. That said never start a war you can't finish without help from outside.
Moss - "the government can regulate the cost of gas. if they can tax it ... they can regulate it."....
Are you kidding?? Whatever happened to the GOP "less gov't" rant? But it's ok for the gov't to step in and control something - that you approve of?
It is more likely that the Bush family is yucking it up getting their cronies to up the gas prices as a way of "stickin' it to the Demos", than the possibility of the current gov't - or even a GOP gov't - can DICTATE gasoline price controls. For those that say "Obama wants gas prices high" - really, that's an even bigger joke on an imaginary scenario. NO incumbent, wants the voter base ticked off because of rising gasoline speculation by oil companies - who do it, because they can. But hey, I'm glad I have Conoco stock - bought it at $56 a share, it's been a great ride - should have bought ALL those b@stards when oil was $70 a barrel.
After reading many of the responses, I thought that I'd chime in. Linda, you are absolutely correct. That is the exact problem regarding the Keystone pipeline, All that is happening is that our land will be used for the pipeline to go through. The ONLY intent is to get the oil to the refineries down in Texas. Then, after it has been refined, it will go on the open market. The USA will only get the benefit of the TEMPORARY jobs created till the pipeline is built. Then, the jobs will disappear and we will be forced to live with a pipeline crossing the nation, through national forests and anything else between the oil fields and Texas. There is absolutely NO BENEFIT to the USA for this pipeline to be built. What we need is to invest in our own infrastructure. If the government is going to spend money, do it creating jobs while creating an infrastructure that supports hydrogen as the replacement of petroleum for the engines that run the vehicles of our nation, just as the state of Hawaii is doing right now, and will have in place by 2015. This would greatly reduce our dependence and create jobs in this industry. Perhaps this time though corporate greed will not be able to get the best of it as it is something funded by the government. Our nation is too dependent on oil from all these nations that want nothing more than to destroy our nation and kill as many American citizens as possible.
Yes, it is terrible what is happening to the innocent people of Syria, and for those of you who say they have the choice to leave, I say go back to the article an read it again. They have troops, snipers, and even trenches built throughout the cities to keep the people from leaving. Yes, I do believe it is up to the Arab nations to police their own and if the UN is serious about the plight of the people, give the rebels the arms they need to fight back. Otherwise, I agree that we should stay out of it.
As for Russia and China, we truly can see their true colors as they continue to buy oil from Iran who is hell bent on creating havoc in the Middle East. I say we (ALL nations that have put an embargo on oil purchases from Iran) shouldn't support their purchases; as, all we are doing is buying Iranian oil, when we buy the products that are made with the oil that is used by these nations. Ban trade with the nations continuing to purchase oil from Iran and I'll bet Iran will sing a different tune when China, Russia, India, and the other nations say they will no longer purchase oil, as their exports to the US, the European Union, and other nations is more important than the oil they get from Iran. When the USA has is doing about a trillion dollars worth of trade with these nations each year and China is benefiting from more than a $120 billion trade surplus from the USA each year, I think this would get Russia and China on board and keep them from misusing the veto power they have with the UN.
Finally, our the Republicans in our Congress have clearly stated and shown that they could give a $hit about the people of this nation. They will do everything and anything to keep Obama a one term President to include not doing their jobs and being only concerned about making as much money as they can, getting as many kickbacks and such from lobbyists and their rich buddies. That is exactly what is wrong in our nation. Until our own government starts to give a $hit about our own nation instead of everyone else, we will continue down the path, which we have been traveling the past 6 years. As for our military, I agree with pulling them out of everywhere, we have a war going on in our own nation with illegal immigration and drugs from the south, we can use the military to protect our own borders.
Humanitarian aid, don't they mean animal allies ?
First off these people are not freedom fighters. These people are wahabi and salafi thugs that will be gunning for Americans first chance they get. Better Assad then another Sunni maniac Islamic state on the Earth. Further, these calls by Turkey and everyone else to stop the violence is laughable. Al-Jazeera did a report in which they came to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of those killed are fighters, not civilians. While there are civilians being killed its important to know, if Assad really wanted to raze cities his army is more than capable of doing that. Also, Turkey has crossed into Iraq to hunt down armed groups against it. Should Syria really allow armed groups free reign in that country? This entire thing has been manufactured by the west and if these Sunni take over it will be an enemy state.
Why would anyone even want to help the muslim rebels. They are the ones causing the trouble. Is it not against the law of any country to try to overthrow the gov't? They are law breaking tugs who should be eliminated.
No! The world has not abandoned you, you have done that to yourselves. Don’t you remember the time you were walking down the road chanting death to America, death to Israel, death to the infidel, death to the West? Now don’t be surprised when no one answers your call! It’s time to look after yourselves!!
America's Strategy: Do nothing. Blame everyone else for it.
please jj.. Syria wants the world and US involved.. but then we, aka US gets involved and then they dont want us there... So which is it? Yes, no, maybe? The middle east is big disaster... If the US were to help, within a few months Syrians would be protesting and burning the American flag, and thousands of American lives would be wasted for those who are begging for our help now.
Doesn't anyone else find it odd that the rebels say, "Help us, they're slaughtering us; but we will continue our fight?" If you quit rebelling, you may quit dying.
Are we getting the real story? Is Assad really the bad guy in this, or are we being misled by western media? Maybe, just maybe, Assad is putting down a revolt of a small minority of the population, much like the US would do if a small group of American "terrorists" were killing politicians and destroying government buildings.
Kio: So you're saying: Yeah someone's actively trying to kill you and all your family, but you don't really NEED help?
Maybe Atlas... Maybe the US would blow up an entire residential neighborhood without any regard for its poor innocent civilian life in order to stop a small minority of American terrorists. Kind of a scary thought but... I'm sure if the neighborhood were poor and marginalized enough, it could happen. Thanks for the comforting thought.
great strategy...to the war front...so they can return dead or screwed up ...and we can call them patriots...my kids are gon'a sit this one out...fruck the middle east...we can pass the hat if you want to send your kids...
Plain Bob what are you talking about? No one has to put a single boot on the ground. Think about it for a long time.
EU has tightened sanctions... US has not
Even some fake organization like the "Friends of Syria" (who?) says they're trying to put sanctions on Syria. US? Nothing.
What about drones? Drones could easily in one big strike take out every military position around Homs.
Be creative.
Our drones will be occupied flying over US cities by summer. Can't use those in the ME.
Beyond that, is it really our responsibility to be involved? Would you support the Syrians, Libyans, or any other country using drones or other military means to keep us from overthrowing our government?
leave the middle east alone they will figure it out one of these days...we need to take care of our own problems..
One has to be realistic even while imagining!
With all drones, friends like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, best inelligence and so on, how much time did it take to locate one Osama?
What did Iraq wars give to the US and allies?
Huge debts, economic mess, huge unemployed, sickly and elderly not taken care off. We have to take loans even from China whom we are lecturing!
Saudis and co, oil companies and their puppets have become richer and now we have Sunni Saudi Arabia inspired Islamic radicals, terrorists and their Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques all over the world.
Even if we intervene in Syria, one incident of some shouting "Quran" burnt will return only: "death to Amerika", "foreigners get out" and so on!
Do you want to help such Islamic religious mad beasts?
Can there be any doubt now of the selfishness of the US population?
"Well what's in it for us? We have our own problems, no one's helping me with my problems. I'm the only one that matters here. I'm through having the US be involved with others. The only people the US should help is me. Where's my assistance?"
It's really disgusting.
Edit: "We're the only humans here. Everyone else is just beasts no one should care about. Plus, they say they wanna kill us. Let THEM die. I have the better religion anyway."
Drones flying over your own country are for spying on you
Journal - how do you propose we PAY for being "saviors" once again? We're borrowing $ from China to interfere in the business of SOVEREIGN NATIONS. We took up said torch when European colonialism collapsed for the same region. They in turn did not learn the same lessons from the Roman empire, which they had seen first hand. How did YOU feel when, during the Iraq war, when we were building infrastructure in Iraq, a bridge collapsed in Mineapolis, killing a woman on her way home from work? I DO care more about people in my own country, and that doesn't mean I don't care about people in general.
Wasn't Me! --
Even if it didn't interfere with any country at all, the US government would still borrow money from China, and the infrastructure would still be collapsing, because those two things have NOTHING to do with US foreign policy.
We do have several butt kissers lobbying the Arab League, all non Muslim and led by a woman so the Islamic cultists will laugh at them.. Muslims want peace = all Zionists and those US infidels dead.. I think I can still hear their chants and smell the burning American flags..
@journal
you're trolling, right?
if not, you may have noticed we've been at war for over 10 years, can't we please take a break for awhile?
Justen:
No. I'm not trolling.
And no, you can't just "take a break" from the rest of the world.Edit: Well you could, actually, if you just turned off the TV computer and just used your cellphone to contact family and friends. But the US government can't take a break from the rest of the world and still call itself the "Leader" of the world.
The west should take a better look at the pedigree of these so-called rebels before any consideration is given to arming them. They are really just different sects of Islam who all want control for themselves. This is the reason they have not been able to unite into a single force to fight against Assad, they hate each other as much as they hate Assad. This is the problem with many of these Muslim sects, they each feel that they are the only valid form of Islam and anyone who does not go along with their particular views is an infidel to be killed. Having Assad leave will not make things in Syria any better. In fact, it could very well make things worse. Under Assad's rule, all of the different flavors of Islam were free to worship as they chose. I would not go so far as to say Assad is a secularist, but he is far more tolerant of other sects of Islam than many other rulers in the region. I do not support Assad or condone what he is doing in any way. All I am saying here is that to a degree I understand why he is doing it.
The different flavors of Islam and their underlying attitudes towards each other is the reason why real democracy will never work in the Middle East. The only way to unify a country where the people practice different flavors of Islam is through a strong hand. It takes a strong ruler with might and the willingness to use it in order to keep the varying sects in line and keep them from fighting with each other. Iraq is a prime example of this. Now that the US has left, the entire country has descended into sectarian violence with the different Islamic groups are attacking each other and fighting for power. It is impossible to get them to come to the table and work together in unison because each feels the other should not even exist and because of this they refuse to share power with each other. You see it is not just non-Muslims that these fanatics hat, it is anyone who does not adhere to their particular brand of Islam. I am not sure of the exact count, but I believe that there are something like 17 or 19 major different branches of Islam. Of course some are more violent and less tolerant than others, but each feels that they are the only true Muslims.
JS, how is the weather in SD? Can you see the Middle East from there? Maybe that's why you can pretend to know so much about it.
People in Middle Eastern CAN get along. They've done it for almost their entire history (in fact almost all the ME strife has occured in the past century) and can do it again. What ruined the Middle East was the crushing injustice and inequality that so segregated the ruling class from the rest of the citizens to the point that they no longer operate on the same cultural plane. The only way the ruling class can keep their position is if they continue to put down and push down the rest of the citizenry. Even if that means killing them all.
I've been to 3 Mid-East countries. The people there are so depressed politically and economically that it's inevitable that there's going to be a bloodbath. When people are so oppressed that they have no way out but death, they'll choose death in the hopes that their death will mean a little more than their lives do. It's really that hopeless there.
So basically they're wonderful people who shout "Death to America" for hours on end as that somehow fixes their muslim created problems?
Thanks for sharing that.
Who knew?
izmee:
Your post suggests that you are too blinded by religious prejudice to see reason.
American Pot? Please meet Middle Eastern Kettle.
When your broke, in debt, and people are paying enough taxes, do nothing sounds good to me.
Yes, and JJ, it sounds like you too are blinded. But your kind of blindness is fed by self-righteous indignation and fifty-year-old doctrine. Your extensive travels in the Middle East are to be applauded and we'll all bow to your vast experience in the culture and our foreign policy. I too was a traveling diplomat for the US. I've traveled extensively in Africa and the Middle East under orders from our government...to kill our enemies! Calling on my own vast experience, I can tell you that they only holler for us when they need us to help meet their own agenda. After that, we're back to the Great Satan. I'm sure the world is nice and rosy from your recliner but it's a little different on the outside. And, this place has been boiling since the beginning of time or are you not familiar with any history other than what was stocked in your refrigerator last week? Fortunately, we as a nation, are beginning to finally get it and are willing to sit back and let them solve their own problems. I've seen far too many people who look just like me hurt and dying for people who look like that to last me five lifetimes! It's far from entertaining to watch but, when I don't want to see it, I turn the channel! After all, true freedom and liberty isn't won without sacrifice. "Crushing injustice and inequality" has always been the fuel for revolt and revolution. Again, check out some history books.
Give each one in every corner a gun and a box of grenades and they will solve the worlds problems.
What good do sanctions do if Syria's ruler has allies that will continue to back the regime? maybe instead of having Hillery talk bad about Russia and China the west should put sanctions on Syria's allies as well, how far will Russia and China back them if they lose trade status with Europe, Japan, and the US. or if their foreign assets are frozen? its not about oil its about two big powers standing behind Assad.
Another question is who are the militant rebels? could they be the same people that were crossing the border into Iraq to kill American and NATOtroops? if they get into power will they in turn start killing anyone that does not think as they think? I would like to see them get some help but I want answers to some questions first. the people need to show unity and state who they are and who is backing them now, someones arming them, who? who is going to step forward as a new ruler? what political affiliation's or ambitions does this group have? we have nothing to base a decision on, so how do you know what to do? we could give them guns but then in a year or so they might use them on us, we cant deal with Assad but will the next one be any different? answerthose questions and then make a decision based on a educated guess. we need answers if we are going to commit to helping and I don't see them very clearly. one thing I'm certain about is the killing has to stop, thats all I know! Assad's father was the same way when it came to controlling the populace, just cut them down they will grow back. its a sad situation.
Yes, I'm clearly blinded by compassion and empathy which is a terrible condition. I mean, look at where compassion and empathy got us in Iraq and Afghanistan.
*sarcasm off*
Tead0922: What is the agenda of the women and children of Homs? Hm? The problem is that they can't leave the city and they're waiting for the army to drop a shell on them. How do you suggest they go about solving that problem themselves? How do you suggest that civilians solve the problem of having no food, no water, no electricity and no way of defending themselves against tanks in the streets and snipers on the rooftops?
My compassion and empathy is stirred when I imagine myself stuck inside of a city with two bombed out houses, one on my right and one at my left and the tank is got my house in its sights. If I run outside, I'm going to get shot, if I stay indoors I'm going to get shelled.
Okay, tell me how to solve this problem. Tell me how your "vast experience" and knowlege of history is going to help me in that moment right there. And this is a question for all of you. Let me know how your "live and let die" philosophy makes an ounce of diffidence to people who's lives have gone to hell in a handbasket with no way out.
Good call JS in SD. They are "activists" until they have backers. Once that happens, they become "freedom fighters". Then, with a few more of our tax dollars (a billion here, a billion there ... pretty soon you're talking real money), they become the new "democratic" government of Syria. Not long after that, the headlines read "Syrian government institutes sharia law and calls for all foreigners to leave Syria to the Syrians". And the beat goes on ... and on ... and on.
Those same people who are crying for help also want a fresh supply of US flag's, they burned all the ones they had.
Burning flags = Deserving of death
Gotcha.
Remind me again of how different Americans are from the so called religious beasts who say Americans should die because someone burned a Koran.
I'd like to hear that.
If it comes down to a choice between the continued reign of "head" Bashir Assad and WWIII, I have to side with not starting Armageddon. While I wish these brave people well in their struggle, in the end, it is THEIR struggle, and not ours. Given current events in Arab Spring nations (19 U.S. Citizens awaiting trial in Egypt) and "Bush Doctrine" nations (at least 50 dead in Baghdad and rising coalition casualties in Afghanistan, thanks to a Quran burning incident that may or may not be real and may or may not have involved U.S. Soldiers), I'm not so sure "freeing" the Syrians is such a great idea, anyway.
Journal Journal, thank you. Your posts stand out like lighthouses of reason in a sea of bull@!$%#.
xrayspex: When you use the word "struggle" you assume that both sides have a fighting chance.
But that's okay, man. I'm sure you'll cry when you watch "Hotel Syria", 10 years from now.
FinallyProud: You're welcome! ^^
Self-Determination of government requires fighting for your own freedom. Some of you might want us to go in and play cop like we have since 1950. Before you do go to DC. Look at the wall those are 50,000 names of kids you sent to die in a war you wouldn't let them win. Then look at your kid and tell me you are ready to collect another 50,000 names by sending troops in with a commander in chief and a people who won't back them up and criticize them for everything they say or do. I say keep them home and bring back the ones already in harms way. Most of us do not deserve thier sacrifice.
Journal..."The people there are so depressed politically and economically that it's inevitable that there's going to be a bloodbath." Jeezus, that's not a hornet's nest to go running toward.
That's why its called a rescue, and way people who rescue others are called "heroes" Cassondra. No one's wanting to overthrow the goverment or put democracy in place in Syria.
We should just stop the wholesale slaughter of innocents.
That's all.
I did not agree with the Bi-partisan authorized "rescue" of the Iraqi people, especially in the wake of our much more justified incursion into Afghanistan, where we should have finished our business before getting involved in a second "police action" "war" or whatever you wish to call it. Any moves involving military action regarding Syria would be similarly ill-advised (as Iraq).
I got so DISGUSTED by anti-military reporting and anti-military statements by the likes of John Murtha ( I believe it is an absolute shame that there is a U.S. Naval vessel carrying his name that transports the brave U.S. Marines this veteran DISGRACEFULLY called "cold blooded killers" before an investigation into the incident concerned had been completed) and other clowns that are supposed to "represent" us, and especially our service members ,regarding operations like Iraq, along with the senseless killing of a Navy friend's son over there that I joined up (or re-joined up) in my '40's and got to see Iraq up close and personal, courtesy of Uncle Sam and the U.S. Army.
What I saw in over a year on the ground in Iraq not only verified my original opinion (that we should have stayed out of Iraq until we had at least finished our business in Afghanistan), but it also reinforced my positive opinions of the vast majority of U.S. Military personnel (which is why I have serious doubts about Quran burning allegations). Lastly, it absolutely reinforced my opinion that we need to cease and desist from any more "nation building" without clearer goals going in that include strategies for getting out of nations we deploy our service members to.
Syria is a sad situation and we should do all we can through the International community to support the end of "head" Bashir Assad's regime including arming rebels, but we have to be wary of actually getting into a conflict to remove Mr. Asshat, because Ahmanutjob and Rootin' Tootin' Putin are looking for an excuse to "jump in" to any situation involving the U.S. Military or the military of any of our close European allies (Britain, France). No sane person should desire that.
@journal journal - You may have traveled in the Middle East, but you obviously never learned anything about the history of the region. The different ethnic groups in the region have been warring with each other for many centuries, if not millenia. You need to learn some history before you go trying to lecture anyone. The Persian empire was one of the most brutal military forces ever seen. They conquered and enslaved many ethnic groups. There have been wars in that part of the world for so long that it is difficult to find any period of peace in history. These wars have been along religious, ethnic, and tribal lines. Of course the problems were made even worse by the period of European colonialism in the region. The European powers drew boundaries for the current countries based on their own needs, desires, and treaties, without giving any thought to existing tribal and cultural boundaries that existed. This became a major problem when the colonial era ended, but left in place those national boundaries. This left conflicting ethnic and tribal groups fighting for control of these newly independent countries. It is doubtful that we will see peace any time soon in the Middle East, there is just too much hatred among the different tribes, ethnic groups, and religious sects throughout the region.
Yes - the west probably has abandoned the Syrian rebels, but the west is probably exhausted from almost twenty years of trying to protect muslims ,frequently from each other, starting in the Balkans and ending up in the mid east and central Asia. And, quite frankly, exhausted by getting nothing in return except hatred and terrorism.
What is happening in Syria is awful, but other countries can only walk into these situations so many times before they learn that civil wars are quicksand. The Syrian rebels will probably get arms but not much else. There really is no air war so this is different from Libya too.
Syria is surrounded by Arab League nations most of which are well armed (by the west), well trained and rich enough to finance an intervention. Its their responsibility this time.
Anita
The way I look at this mess Syria's neighbors want no part of this. It is a secular civil war. If they stick their noses in, they run the risk of blowing up their own country along secular lines. This whole Sunni, Shiite, Kurdish and Arab thing is tribal. Each faction is fighting to be come king of the hill. The best we should do is let them alone to have at it.
Most are fed up with Saudi, oil companies and paid pipers like lobbyists, UN, human rights and other war mongers and hike in subsequent oil prices with one excuse or the other.
Results are more and more economic mess and more soldiers killed and maimed with each wars and hated for helping them forgetting whatever has been done.
Examine Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Assad is far a better a leader compared to most of the Sunni beastly rulers of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and more.
His father crushed a similar rebellion and it took a few years.
Just leave the Sunnis and Shiites alone. Let them settle the scores!
When was it written that the "West" is obligated to support rebels. If rebels want a revolt let them do it but they should not count on Hillary, Obama and McCain for support. They do not represent the will of the American people. We have our own problems.
Gil,
I agree. I also hate to see the senseless loss of life to innocent people but, this is a "rebellious revolt" against their government. How would we react here if a minority group (in numbers) was to revolt against our government and ask the help of, let's say, Russia. The situation truly sucks and I grieve at the losses of children and others but .................
Unfortunately, worst case the US will be 'expected' to intervene and this will probably swell into some military intervention. I say stay out of it- it's not a case of the world abandoing anyone but more of them dealing with their own mess. These are the same folks who cheered when 9/11 occurred
Your on your own. How about your Muslim brothers step in, because we as sure aren't going into that hell hole. We never abandoned you, you abandoned the civilized world centuries ago. Until you get your boots off your females throats, and live in peace, your country is yours to fight for, get on with it losers. Islam the culture of submission, degradation and intolerance, sorry we are full up with your bs.
perfect!
I was visiting at our local VA hospital most of the day yesterday and then came home to my warm, cozy little house, chatted with the dogs and read a good book while thinking about the guys I had seen (and heard) at the hospital. I want a better world for the Muslim people but, I'm satisfied with the decision to drag our feet before committing to anymore American intervention in the region. I was impressed with the strategy that was taken in Libya but have doubts that the situation for the people there will be be much better in 5 years than it is now.
Karen C.
Most of us, should do as you have done and visit a VA hospital, REALITY.
MRZ; We are in total agreement.
Jonathan said ..."Assad is far a better a leader compared to most of the Sunni beastly rulers of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and more.
His father crushed a similar rebellion and it took a few years.Just leave the Sunnis and Shiites alone. Let them settle the scores!".....
I suspected you were a Syrian troll - now I have NO doubt.
If I remember from US history when a rebellious group of rebels revolted and asked for help from England. The central government of the US made war on them and destroyed the economy of their 11 states. We call it the Civil War. It is still the bloodiest war in American history which came close to destroying an entire generation of young American men.
Over 200 years ago a minority in the British colonies started a revolt and would have failed if not for the French intervening and the assistance of German mercenaries. We need to remember our own history and that revolutions often are the work of minorities and require "outside" help to succeed. That doesn't mean that the US is the only country in the world obligated to intervene or assist. We just need to be a bit more honest about our own roots while lecturing others.
Oh you are so correct. What are all of the Arab league nations doing? I hear some poor Syrian on american T.V. asking,"Where are the Americans to help us?" My response is as should all of the U.S. of A, we've done enoigh!!! Now go ask your Arab and Muslim brothers for help. No american men will enter your nation. We have attempted, foolishly, to bring some form of equality and democracy to your countries and after we've removed your Tyrants, You've attacked us. Well we have learned our lesson. Go find another sucker to bleed for you.
Cassandra...: You are a Saudi paid agent inventing wars for them just like Iraq such that oil prices can be hiked as Saudis like!
Iraq people pleaded the same after Bush 1 and Saddam came down of them fast forward and look what has it gotten USA to have gotten involved in removing Saddam..the graditude of the people? what has it gotten USA in Afghanistan? the graitude of the people? and what and whom will they replace current leader with..
exactly... completely agree
When helping them, if one gets killed, the screams are: innocent children and women are killed!
Then start the chest beating.
Then in the US and allies, who become targets?
Let there be an enquiry of the soldiers who killed innocent children and women!
Screams of Quran burning means: hell breaks out!
Syria doesnt have enough oil for obama to care about humanitarian crisis there; which is much worse than the humanitarian crisis he gave as the reson for bombing the crap out of libya
as you drive your gas guzzler to the gas station
What did Obama do to start this? While I really don't agree with most of his policies, I'm really getting tired of everyone blaming the president for everything going on in the world! If he was to actually do something, then, he would be wrong for that too.
I think Mr. Obama knows the American ppl don't have the stomach for any more policing the ME, or, SA. I didn't vote for him last time wont vote for him this time either, but, some of the idiomatic statements by the right-wing fascist will get him elected again this yr. Time to end the regime over here as well! Vote RON PAUL.
Bodivide, I suppose your going to sign up and go over to help? Right.
left-wing idiots are always making idiotic assumptions; it's all they have. i don't drive a gas guzzler; you know moron like the kind you see in the inner city driven by people YOU identify with
It was okay to blame the last one.. But we can't blame the corrupted one for anything? Very Funny
Only because I can't afford the electric bill to charge my super clean, carbon-burning-when-charging, can't-dispose-of-the-battery, save the earth, green Volt.
Maybe you,*Jesusiswatching* have not recognized it but these people do not believe in Jesus! We,in the USA need to let these barbarians continue to slaughter each other,we need to TRY to limit suffering in our own nation,to our best ability.Yes,we can pray but STOP sending our people to be slaughtered by these sick minds.American CITIZENRY is suffering.We are not everyone's "mother"!
"we can pray"
Talk about doing nothing....
Belief in Mohammad, belief in Jesus, both involve a "sick" mind.
Use the Drones to take out ASSad and his ilk and go home. Let the Syrians figure it out from there. I know we would be condemned for it but so what? No matter what we do we are always wrong in the eyes of the " civilized world "! The way I see it we are heading towards a regional war at the very least in the middle east, or worse a world wide conflict that wll end our way of life for a very long time if not forever. This country the good ol' USA has a debt that can never be fixed but our leaders just keep talking and do nothing! We are screwed and most people do not even realize it, we are all to busy trying to get by week to week. The only people who can solve our problems are the American people and not our politicians. What do we need to wake up our people another 9/11 or a nuclear strike on Israel from Iran. I do not condone war however it is a nescessary evil and we are on the path to one that makes Iraq and Afghanistan wars look like a fire fight!
Syrian activist (Rebels) -- you started a war you were unprepared for, did you REALLY think Assad would dry up and just leave you to take over his country?? If I were you, I'd pray to allah and kiss your backside goodbye. You continue to use your fellow Syrians as human shields to protect yourselves and complain when they die protecting you. Even your fellow tribesmen and fellow terrorist are unwilling to give you any assistance unless the Great Satan U.S. and the Western Nations (who you have killed and bombed) come to your aid and rescue your sorry selves.
So if that is what you want put your keyboard where your mouth is and send a simple Keep our troops home message to usagov.org. I did it two days ago they haven't arrested me yet.
Aren't these the people that danced in the streets on September 11, 2001?
No.
No - that was the Palestinians.
middle east deserves what they get...you infidels understand...LOL...
yes they were, but the media was not interested to show it. the problem at that time was in Palestine.
journal journal: get your facts and thoughts straight you are not getting the real story. the government is putting down a revolt of a small minority of the population (Islamic extremists).
backed up by the kings of the gulf countries. these people were given several amnesties (see previous us state department statements), but chose to fight. when you go to rob a bank, and the police is surrounding you do not ask the Mexican government to come and help you.
Why yes, yes they are. Should have thought about things then instead of when you need someone to pull your backsides out of the fire. nKarma is a bitch!
And the syrians and the egyptians. They all did.
We need to stay out of this. The rich brats in charge in the middle east have more money than anyone else on earth, they can send their kids to die for Syria... oh ooops, I forgot-
Young American soldiers, most barely out of their teens, are the only expendable ones. The rich brats in charge over there won't send their ivy league educated kids to fight.
I'm sorry, we need to stay out of yet another middle east war. We're broke, war weary, and it's time for the Arabs and Israelis to send their kids to die for their neighbors. Let's heal America first!
maybe the world doesnt like that you kill Christians Jews, treat women like dirt, kill your children and call it "honor" murder people in the name of Allah, and frankly just rather our kids do your fighting for you and die, while we spend OUR money and get weaker while you watch and then complain and then kill us. Look at your history. When has Syria, or any Muslim Country for that matter, been a friend to the world? Never. Screw you. Fight your own fights. See the Afgans pal, we build hospitals, schools, roads, wells, everything, while our kids die instead of theirs solving their problems and then brun a couple of freakin Qurans that they wrote in (blaspamy) to send terrorist messages in and now they are killing our guys and demanding apologies? No. We should never lift a finger for another Muslim country again.
George- You need to know your christian history as well. 600+ yrs ago christians we doing the same thing. Their religion is about 600 younger than yours. Given time and pressure from THEIR society they will change. Just like your religion did.
Kerry-
It's really okay for people to have their own belief structure. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't give you the right to bash them for their beliefs. I'm not a christian, but I don't tell christians that they are wrong, and while most will plead with me that I'm wrong, they don't castigate me for it.
Who cares what happened 600 years ago??? Since then, we, the west have made a few advancements and have shared them with the world. How did the "Arab spring" uprising get organized? Facebook was it??? 600 years ago people died from minor injuries. The Islamic world kept on developing right along with the west. They were not isolated except by their own ignorance(or choice to be ignorant). If some say Islamic countries are backward, the response is often a litany of their early civilization advances-Algebra etc.
Kerry you are a blithering idiot. People also lived in mud huts then, get over history. Muslims have been killing people for longer than the crusades went on.
Yes but the Crusades were after the wonderful Moors chopped the heads off my people. Think about it the muslims are always trying to convince the west they are peaceful. They have no trouble telling that to the people east of them. Why the difference? In the east traders brought Islam. But to Europe Soldiers brought Islam by invading Spain, Romania, Austria etc. We still remember one war chief who fought the Turks. His bloody solution to thier invasion is legend. He lined pointed stakes along the road to his castle and impaled the captured prisoners alive and naked on them. We call him Dracula.
"So what should be a domestic civil war is now turning into an international crisis and the Russians and the Chinese are reacting to us by pushing this.
"I think it's none of our business. I think it's a tragedy, but I can point out many tragedies manifold greater than this. But it's not in American interests.
"Now, as president, if there was a crisis like this and it was building and somebody was making the case, oh, no, it's in America's national security, I'd go to the Congress. I wouldn't go to the United Nations or NATO.
"I'd go to Congress and say, do you think this deserves a war?
"If it does, you declare the war and we'll go to war, fight and win it. But to assume that we have an automatic obligation to be over there, I think, is a very dangerous thing to assume." ~ Ron Paul
If the people of the USA decided to take our country back from the obama tyrany gov. what nation would help we the people???Sure as heck wouldn't be any middle east country, and I doubt any other country would. RON PAUL 2012.......
to bad you didn't say that 8 years ago except put bush in for obama
Pray for them to end this just like to pray for a gay man to be straight. That's the christian way
What is prayed for is that right choices be made...in both cases.
So if we feel sorry for the Syrians how many of our young soldiers and how many billion of dollars is worth their safety and security? Whether we intervene or not these people will wind up hating and despising us no matter what we do or do not do. Look at Afghanistan. because we accidentally threw some of their holy books into the trash they kill our people, and as usual, their own as well. Are they grateful for having us oust the terrible Taliban, rebuilding their primitive infrastructure, and opening schools for young women? Are we beloved by Bosnians, Iraqis, Egyptians, the Arabs in general? For heavens sake get this notion out of our heads that we need to intervene when evil rears its head somewhere. It always will and we will be sucked into a never ending vortex of intervention if we do not learn to resist the siren call of "save us from evil". Just sometimes rationality needs to replace sentiment.
I think the US is getting a refresher course in middle eastern gratitude at the moment. They only want our help at the moment and then after we come to their 'rescue' they will be spitting on us and burning our flag in the streets again in 2 years time.
No thanks.
everyone who fed up with the brutalty which is going on in Syria contact everyone on your social network and ask them to boycott all products from China and Russia until they fall into line with world opinion on this issue.Politicians won't do it because they are scared of rocking the boat but we need to do something and this is maybe the answer.At least we will all feel as if we are doing something!
Paul
Not a half bad idea.
But as we all know it will not work . If you care to remember G.W.B. saying when we went to war against terrorism. This will be a war of information, misinformation, and disinformation. We also know that our media slants stories, spins the facts, tells half truths and flat out omits stories. To sum it all up, we are not getting the truth nor the complete story here.
No thanks, I like vodka and electronics.
Too bad Syria didn't have oil like Libya, then they wouldn't be forgotten.
If we did help them out they would turn on us in the end anyway.
America has not abandon you. Only our Liberal President and his Progressive party has. All in the name of votes. So your children die for liberal votes.. So they can make Obama President in 2012, May the ghosts of your dead haunt them..
Uh, I think the progressives would be in support of involvement in Syria. The progressives are those fighting for a global government. What is good about getting involved? I prefer to stay out of it.
nothing but peace...is all the middle east wants...LOL...
The "progressives?" Who are they? Liberals by another name. They are the people in the USA who would not wear the uniform and who would move heaven and earth to prevent their children from wearing the uniform. They are like Bill Clinton - "too smart" to go into the military. They are first in line to gather the cream off the top of society and last in line to wear the uniform. They hide in the cupboard when the shooting starts (actually before the shooting starts). We've always had some cowards. Now that cowardace is the cultural norm for the left.
They might be...the poor people...who don't want to fight the rich mans war... so he can control the poor man...
Stop bashing dick cheney..shame on you.... Ooops Cheney siad he was too busy with more important things.....lmao but smart enough to get 4 deferments to keep from being drafted
To: joe1022joe, #17.3
Your claim could, easily, be reversed towards the Right/Conservative/Rich portion of America. Or you could, just, include them with your Progressives statement. I don't see either side being placed on a pedestal when we're speaking of failure to serve our nation in a military uniform.
When you disparage Bill Clinton for "not wearing the uniform" or "being too smart" to serve in the military, be sure to include Dick Chaney, Carl Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, on-and-on within the ranks of the Republican Party, ad nauseam. When it comes to being the "last in line to wear the uniform," both sides share in that unsavory distinction. Btw, which military service did you serve in and during which years?
Your euphemism "hide in cupboards" or (concealing oneself in an undisclosed location) is not uncommon for either side.
"... cowardace [sic] is the cultural norm for the left" you say? When you sling the "c" word around, please include the Right; they have more than their fair share.
I would hope that, regardless of which political party is in office, they would exercise responsible reasoning in accomplishing our national objective(s). The intelligent use our military forces to obtain the desired results with minimum risks to our military personnel and unnecessary drain on our treasury and equipment is a much more appropriate path to take as opposed to the use of brute force which only impresses mental-midgets of which America commands an unfair advantage (sarcasm). The near obliteration of al Qaida by a B-52 in the Tora Bora Mountains and the sealing-off of their escape route with an airborne battalion as requested by CIA agents on the ground (request denied by President Bush--reasoning unknown to me) was, partially, a smart beginning. Then, everything went to hell-in-a-handbasket. My observation is not 20/20 hindsight.
I didn't vote for Bill Clinton either time but, we can say this about him. He didn't go AWOL for eight (8) months or more while "serving" in the Air National Guard. Research it.
May the ghosts of OUR dead haunt THEM! Ain't happening......
I have been put in time out for trying to bring a little comic relief to this depressing venue. If you are reading this comment, I must be on parole.
If the Arab League wants to fight in the Syrian Civil War, they should go ahead and do it. Who's stopping them? If some other country wants to send its troops or its air power, be my guest. But don't expect the USA to contribute two cents and a length of pipe.
I don't understand, are we suppose to help them and then they turn on us? We have to stop helping these third world countries and start improving ours.
NO OIL NO help The Empire only acts when it has something it needs.The empire talks democracy and freedom & liberty but that's only to justify getting what the kleptocracy needs to keep the elite in power. the freedom and liberty are for the elite.The freedom and liberty to dictate to the lower classes how we should all live and die for them. History never changes just the elite thinking somehow this time it will be different. When it can never be since they manage to do the same thing over and over for millennium. If you control the Monatary system you control the world, just ask greece.
Not - in our eyes, democracy and freedom are a good thing. But not effectively imposed - they work best when they come from within. You are correct about history. History also tells us that imperialism eventually bankrupts nations as well - we are staring at it now. As for Greece, you are partly right. But there are two sides to the story there. A country where a majority of the population is unproductive simply isn't going to flourish - it lives on borrowed time then comes tumbling down. Oil - yes, of course that is the main factor in our mid east meddling.
We have no Blame here what so ever, This is Russia and China's Fault this is what the UN was basically created to do, It is their primary Duty to stop Countries from killing their people, In this Forum the US was willing to help but on an equal platform, The Blame lies solely on Russia and China by voting no they have chosen to be responsible for these peoples fate.
US Citizen --- Thanks for your post. You have correctly articulated the the crux of this sad situation and our sad world.
Don't help these guys. These guys fighting the govt. in Syria are islamic radicals - muslim brotherhood, al qaeda etc. They act like victims now and after they get help from us and win they will dictate terms to the Christian population there. These are beasts that need no support from a civilized world. Russia and China are smart. We need to for once be smart and join Russia and China.
It was the Russians who were trying to silence the mad dogs of Islam in Afghanistan in the 1980's and we like fools helped these beasts to fight the Russians. Now these rabid dogs are doing everything possible to bring down America. For once can we brighten up and figure out who the real enemy is? Bosnia/Kosovo was another misadventure we got into and strengthened the position of these idiots who are out to kill and destroy us. When they need our help they beg for it and when they are done with our help we return to being infidels. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on all of us Americans. Let us not be fooled by these barbarians once more.
Maybe, instead of the Arab League trying to get the entire world involved, they should pool together a trillion dollars, and hand every citizen in Syria a million.
Millionaires tend to not fight. There own battles anyway.
Dear Syrians,
Just hang in there. The UN will come through for you just like they did for us.
Sincerely,
The Rwandans and the people of Darfur
hedward......
Very true....... Good post......
Russia and China are the only two countries who have the good sense to stay the hell out of it.
But the paradox is Russia and China are their chosen alliance for 50 years. These activist's are the citizens who celebrate this but decided they don't like the current leader. So they need to talk to Russia and China not the bureaucrats in Washington, DC that follow their own department apparatchiks and not the will of the people. Go Russia and China. Help the Syrians with food, money, medical aid and bullets.,
Good sense? Everyone criticizes the US for our involvement in Middle Eastern affairs because of the oil. Well guess what? Russia and China are NOT involved because of the oil. They are even more guilty because of their non-involvement and their disdain for freedom and a civilized existence. Heaven forbid they show anything that might be construed as agreement with the US. They are no better than the terrorists, just a bunch of chickenshiites.
Do other Arab nations care about the bloodshed? Is a call to action being broadcast on Al Jazzera? How caring are Arab nations, and their religious groups? When people are locked in hate, and know nothing but how to generate terror and war they don't care. The rest of the world should watch at a distance as the repulsive middle east keeps showing its nature. It is as much a death pit as it is a money pit.