The problem you have with trying to use a polygraph on these fanatics is that they see nothing wrong about what they are doing. They also see lying to an "infidel" as a perfectly acceptable thing. As a result you would not likely get the stress response from the body when they lie that would show up on a polygraph. Polygraphs generally do not work on someone who is not sane or on someone who does not care if they get caught. No stress equals no reaction on the polygraph.

It is time we just pull all of our troops out and let these backward barbarians kill each other if they want. Just make it clear that any attack on the US or US interests originating from Afghanistan will result in the complete carpet bombing of the area where the attack originated. Maybe if they know they are facing complete annihilation if one of these fanatics attacks the US, the Afghanis, including the civilian population, will get serious about doing something about the fanatics. Proportional response and attempting to fight the fanatics on their terms does not work. When you are fighting an enemy that wears no uniform, blending in and using the civilian population for cover, worrying about civilian casualties just gets more of our soldiers and Marines killed. If the civilian population is going to tolerate these fanatical animals hiding in their midst then they are complicit in whatever happens. This makes them just as guilty and we should have no problem if some of them die along side the fanatics they are essentially supporting. If the Afghani people as a whole truly wanted the Taliban gone, they would have been defeated long ago.

Kill them all and let Allah sort them out! I'm joking, of course. Spare the women and children if possible.

So, two "U.S. servicemen were found dead on the floor of an office that only people who know a numerical combination can get into, Afghan and Western officials said."

In an NBCNewYork article, it reported that "The Associated Press initially reported that the murders were carried out by another Westerner,".

In a reuters article, it reports info about the suspect named Abdul Saboor, and says "CCTV footage shows that Saboor had access to the Command and Control Centre where the slain Americans were found."

If CCTV indeed proved that Saboor had access to the murder scene ---- use the CCTV tape to see who actually did kill the lieutenant colonel and the major, point blank in the back of their heads ---- if you can find the tape.

Sigh....Mong0ose, apparently you have never served in the military. A command and control or TOC is secure due to SIPRnet and other secure communications. Monitoring the room via CCTV would compromise OPSEC because then you would need someone to monitor the monitors.....this is why the HALLWAYS and entry points are monitored only.

Muslims do not detest lying. Their Holy Quran teaches them to lie to the infidel. They are in fact NOT good Muslims if they don't lie to the infidel.

Muslims detest lying...

from "the reliance of the traveller" a guide to sharia law, Al- Azhar university has certified it asan authentic source for theocratic Muslims.

http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~omnafees/temp/Reliance-of-the-Traveller.pdf. From a Canadian university.

page 335 lying.

@R8.2: Permissible Lying

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,"He who settles disagreements between people to bring about good or says something commendable is not a liar.''

This much is related by both Bukhari and Muslim, with Muslim's version recording thatUmm Kulthum added, "I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say, except for three things: war,settling disagreements and a man talking with his wife or she with him (A:in smoothing over differences), '' This is an explicit statement that lying is sometimes permissible for a given interest,scholars having established criteriadefining what types of it are lawful. The best analysis of it I have seen is by Imam Hamid Ghazali, who says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If apraiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible

Jihad is in fact permissible. Therefore lying in support of Jihad is obligatory.

(N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumventsomeone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. When for example one is concealing a muslim from an oppressor who asks where he is, it is obligatory to lie about his being hidden.

Jihad page 275

Remember, Mustfa Kemal Ataturk abolished the caliphate , with the establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1922

@O9.6 It is offensive to conduct a military expedition against hostile non-Muslims without the caliph's permission (A: though if there is no caliph (def: o25), no permission is required).

this is "allah's" law, and can not be changed by mortal man

except under force of arms ( stealth bombers, Apache attack helicopters, Abrams tanks)

And yet still, sharia expands it control. Soon many north African nations may become sharia compliant.

"The Taliban claimed responsibility for the Interior Ministry attack, saying it was retaliation for the Quran burnings"

I wonder how many Qurans are "defiled" when the Muslims blow up their own mosques?

Now that Obama has apologized for the burning books, will we also hear an apology from Hamid Karzai for the MURDER of those trying to help his Government?

.

"D'Allah' Akbar" (The American war chant)

who would have thunk it...someone on the inside

I can only say this so loud...get the @!$%# out of the (middle (give a dog a bone) east) NOW

I can't say it any other way....And I don't want this too harm American Muslims

Get the F-out of that region and hemisphere...NOW

I can't believe we spend so much money to protect these DUMB-ASSES

Might be a good idea for the Afghans to polygraph some of their key people.

It would be easier to hook them up to some fully charged lithium batteries and inject them with opium, a good combo for telling the truth.

If you nuke it...dumb-ass- you can't get the oil

H. H. Holmes, M.D. Kill them all and let Allah sort them out! I'm joking, of course. Spare the women and children if possible.

From the mouth of an MD comes not only the Hippocratic oath but also the hypocrisy related to hatred. Your joke does not lend you credence. Can you see our role in this conflict. Have you stopped to ask yourself why we are there. Can you tell me why we are there before they kill us and or we kill them.

H. H. Holmes, M.D.

Kill them all and let Allah sort them out! I'm joking, of course. Spare the women and children if possible.

I guess the Hippocratic oath means nothing to you. Hopefully no Afghan lands in your hands for medical care.

Instead of killing them all why don't you ask for the real reason we are there. There are non other than economic entitlements (natural resources, gateway for pipelines, etc.)

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Pipeline.htm

http://afghanistan.cr.usgs.gov/oil-and-natural-gas

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/LA08Ag01.html

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/front.htm

http://liesofbush.com/Afghanistan.shtml

Hey, MD, do you see why we first create hatred in order to justify war for profit. Still think we need to kill them all. How would you feel if a foreign army invaded your hometown in order to ensure a pipeline through your back yard.

David South Jersey

These towel-heads sicken me!! There all NUTS!! Heat and sand makes glass- turn the place into something from Kal-el's dads place on Krypton. Nuke em and take ALL their oil!! What happened to the oil that was supposed to pay for war in Iraq? Bin Laden said to really hurt US was $100 /barrel oil!! Resart the Crusades and send all muslimsm to allah!!

Oh my. No what sickens you is your hatred. The 'towel-heads' are merely your projection of your own hatred.

There all NUTS!!

Do they teach how to spell and form sentences in South Jersey.

'Kal-el's dads place...'

Television fantasy coupled with reality.

Nuke em and take ALL their oil!!

Finally you said something based in fact. America went to Iraq and Afghanistan for the bush and dick oil connection. The rest doesn't merit any response. Hope you get it.

Peter he's a troll. Look at the MD's history - not one intelligent comment in his short miserable existence, using a name for instant credibility.

The Islamic zombies have only one purpose in life and that is to appease their warlord Muhammad.

Peter from my viewpoint leave take our troops,take our money and if Karzai wants security let the bastard pay for it himself. Then stand aloof while they kill each other. And if one of those islamic fanatics dares to try anything in the US dispose of all outdated conventional bombs in their backyaard from say 30,000 feet. Then we can restock with new ones putting the people of the US back to work at the same time. Make it well known world wide that that is the new policy of the US and if that fanatic came from your village you were responsible for him.

Peter Jacobs:

I think the Hippocratic Oath (loosely translated/summarized: "Do no harm") has lost its original meaning in today's secular world. I say that because abortion doctors can base their entire careers on slaughtering millions of innocent, unborn children by chopping them to pieces like a butcher chops a carcass. I'd call that "Doing lots of deliberate harm."

So, it dooesn't surprise me that a medical doctor on this thread is okay with posting the comment "Kill them all and let Allah sort them out!" Even if it's meant as a joke (a sick joke, I might add), it still doesn't surprise me. In a certain sense, we "civilized" people are just as evil and ruthless as many of the foreigners we readily condemn.

lonereb, I agree with leaving altogether. However, OUR MASTERS won't allow that to happen until we the people have guaranteed their private corporate petroleum pipelines.

Rhonda, thanks for your intelligent post. We may differ just a bit but that is ok. It is what intelligent people do. Add intelligence to a conversation and try to come up with better solutions.

I would stop the abortions by adhering to the use of contraception. In a World, already at the brink of unsustainability, the best policy would be to take care of what we have here on Earth.

thom34tum4932

Oh my. No what sickens you is your hatred. The 'towel-heads' are merely your projection of your own hatred.

Aww, you gonna go cry to mommy now because he said something 'bad'?

LOL...

No. I am gonna laugh because some of us can not see the reality of how life works. Who knows, someday maybe.

The problem you have with trying to use a polygraph on these fanatics is that they see nothing wrong about what they are doing. They also see lying to an "infidel" as a perfectly acceptable thing.

From their point of view, they are lying to an invading army. If someone invaded your homeland, you would be just as "fanatical" as these people are. 90% of Afghanis don't even know why the US went into Afghanistan in the first place; they never heard of 9/11. All they know is that first the Soviet Union invaded and once they were kicked out, the US invaded.

As a result you would not likely get the stress response from the body when they lie that would show up on a polygraph. Polygraphs generally do not work on someone who is not sane or on someone who does not care if they get caught. No stress equals no reaction on the polygraph.

These people are perfectly sane and their behavior is very rational. Irrationality is expecting them to adore you..or staying in Afghanistan when the guy you went to get is already dead and you already dumped his body in the ocean.

90% of Afghanis don't even know why the US went into Afghanistan in the first place; they never heard of 9/11.

911 is the excuse and not the reason Byron. You know this. Look at the links on my previous posts to get to the real reason the Russians were there and now the US.
I will re-post the links for you.

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Pipeline.htm

http://afghanistan.cr.usgs.gov/oil-and-natural-gas

http://www.ringnebula.com/Oil/Timeline.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/LA08Ag01.html

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/front.htm

http://liesofbush.com/Afghanistan.shtml

JS in SD, I just wanted to comment on something specific in your post. You've been mentioning carpet bombing a good bit recently. Here's the thing: Afghanistan doesn't really have anything to bomb. You would be carpet bombing the desert and even 'dumb' bombs dropped from B-52's are an expensive charge to our bill.

The city population live in rudimentary homes. The "upscale" neighborhoods in the capital, Kabul, don't always have running water or underground sewer (or even paved roads for that matter). Their schools are mud and brick, full of bullet holes, bomb blasts, and lack complete walls and a roof- you can forget about a microwave to heat up the teacher's lunch. That country never really had much of an infrastructure and the Soviets pretty much wasted their bombs on rocky mountainsides and burning down the same structures repeatedly. We aren't even talking about the caves (which are practically immune from aerial bombardment, unless you manage to seal off a single-exit-only cavern) or the tribal communities that exist throughout the landscape. Burning their farms and livestock has only caused further ill will towards us.

In short, why suggest wasting bombs on nothing of any importance? The only effect would be psychological. Seeing advanced, imperial technology dropping bombs on your homeland will anger them (how dare you turn our sandbox into... more sand), embolden them (you attack us, we attack you), and fill them with pride/optimism (HA! You do the same as the Russians? You will have the same experience as them, too!!! We are still here!!!!). Remember, Bin Laden (piss on his name) correctly predicted that a long, drawn-out conflict would only deplete our military, our economy, and our morale (as well as our standing in the world with a little bit of good PR). If I remember correctly, we carpet bombed Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos and Saigon still fell. These people that we are fighting do not abhor violence. They will merely respond in kind.

The following is one crucial reason why the Taliban needs to be eradicated. What would they do with the capital gains?

Government officials estimate that the country's untapped mineral deposits are worth between $900 bn and $3 trillion. One official asserted that "this will become the backbone of the Afghan economy" and a Pentagon memo stated that Afghanistan could become the "Saudi Arabia of lithium".

A senior Afghan general told the BBC: ''The virus of infiltration has spread like a cancer and it needs an operation. Curing it has not helped."

A simple USectomy procedure should do the job

Agreed, Truth and truth, can be confused with arrogance. It all depends on who's looking and the way they interpret what they are seeing. Like minded people tend to speak for one another. For all you know he can be a she.

Question for you. Can you add anything worthwhile to our discussion or are personal attacks and expletives all you are going to offer.

Don't bother Peter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivity

Good. You got it.

Do tell us all how "life works", Peter. We all know you're an arrogant 1,000 year old sage with the most magnificent crystal ball possible.

You are well on your way. No crystal ball or sage-hood necessary. Only common sense.

Now couple it with the COH you signed when becoming a member and realize that expletives do not belong in intelligent conversation.

Peter Jacobs,Good Lord man how can you say 9-11 is an excuse? What in the H.E. Double toothpicks is the matter with you? Those terrorists killed more Americans that day than the attack on Pearl harbor... ANY country that even remotely allows terrorists to hide out is real lucky we didn't just wipe their capitol cities off the map. We don't need nuclear weapons to do it either. Excuse.... Phttttt!

Devon, I didn't say it wasn't bad for Americans, it was. I didn't say it didn't happen, it did. 911 is a fact and that is the Truth. How did we choose to react to this fact.

We went in with military might instead of intelligence. When intelligence entered the White House, OSB was killed. Even after his killing, we are still there. WHY! What is our excuse now or better yet, what is our reason now.

Our politicians talk about reconstructing or nation building. Take a real hard look at what that means. Spending US Taxpayer dollars to build infrastructures that would aid and support private corporate interests such as big oil. Hmmmm not Phtttt.... Makes me wonder....

let's face it...our Government is in Afganistan and other countries for a reason...Greed & oil..they will try anything to attain what they want..including toppling of regimes that won't bend to their will.They don't care what Americans think,so why would they care what other countries citizens think.Obama and presidents before him are only pawns for those with power and money.You don't really believe this is all about oil do you? It's about control.Who ever has control makes the rules!!

There are some well thought out posts in this string ... and some that shouldn't have seen the light of day. One main theme is, "What would a proper response to another 9/11 be?" This is an excellent question because we are bound to see another attack by the religion of peace. Afghanistan has shown us that proportional response doesn't work in the Middle East. These are fanatics, all or nothing folk. They don't care if we bomb a capitol city or two off the map. Where do we apply the pressure then? The 800 pound gorilla in the room that answers this question is, their holy cities. Islam is a world unto itself; to hurt it means attacking the root. That's Mecca, Qom and other points considered important to Islam, not any specific country. This is a thought no one would have entertained a few years ago. It is one no sane person wants to entertain now. It is a specter Islam has to factor into it's plan of world domination though. Unless we find some basis for a dialogue it is on the table in some war room, bet on it.

i agree with js in sd; that we should just pull out and let the barbarians kill each other off. i do grieve for the women and children though, who have the bad luck of being born into such a backward society, for it is their MEN who cause all the hate and discontent. i wouldn't just pull our troops and citizens though, i would pull every dime our country gives them, because we could certainly use that huge amount of money here at home. that will never happen though, because the really wealthy people who control our entire government, democrats and republicans alike, are making too much money on the war machine (and the subsequent rebuilding) wherever we are involved in conflict.

in an aside, what the #*!! is the big deal about burning the quran? if they burned a bible (considered sacrilegious by millions of people around the world) i would say, "so you burned one book. there are millions of copies, and you can't burn them all!"

But you have no common sense, Peter.

I think you may be right. By just replying to you may be proving that.

When you get to be 1,000 years old, come back to us. The world needs to hear that you are 'the center of the universe'.

Now look at your statement 'come back to us'. Center of the Universe in this 'World' speaking for 'us'. How about I come back to YOU in about a 1000 years. Choice of language exposes.

thom34tum4932 Member Since: 2/2012, BTW, welcome to the vine.

No need to ignore. I like watching evolution no matter where the starting point is. When the student is ready the teacher will always appear. It is amusing but true.

Listen buddy, you respect others and others will respect you. Cut off the trashy language and add value to the vine. It is that simple. You may not agree with personal opinions but that is no reason for using trashy language on others.

BTW, I gave you an uptick for the dog thing.

It's time we got out of there. Yes the idea of creating a stable government was a good one from an idealistic standpoint, but the reality of the situation says it just won't happen.

There is a lesson here that many seem to be missing. That is that you can't have a respectable civilized government if you let religious fanatics play a role. This isn't just a Muslim thing, it's a religious fanaticism thing. We need to realize that any religious fanaticism playing a role in government policy is bad. There is no right religion for this kind of influence. We need to recognize that what is being attempted in the US today, really isn't all that different in some respects. True it may not be as extreme, at least to date, and the specifics are different, but the principle is the same.

It should be clear that we aren't about to force these people to change their beliefs. So it is pointless to keep trying. I believe that evidence exists suggesting that the vast majority of Afghans do not support the Taliban, but in many respects, they are the powerless 99%. The hope that we had was to give these people a real voice, but when the 1% addresses their opposition by killing them, the vast majority are going to keep relatively silent. It is the same principle that "unanimously" re-elects oppressive dictators, time and time again.

In reality, few Afghans have any desire for a central government. They see little advantage to it. Ironically, there are some in this country that hold similar ideas. But it is sometimes hard to see the big picture when every day of your life is in some remote isolated reality.

We are not about to succeed in our idealistic goals of a stable central government in Afghanistan. It was a nice idea, but it ain't going to happen. At this point I believe our best bet is to arbitrarily declare a "truce" and withdraw with the reservations that we will take whatever action we deem necessary if we find evidence of a threat to us. The key to making that work is in how we manage to retain the capability to strike if threatened. In reality, part of why we are there is to maintain that same type capability against threatening forces within Pakistan.

In a lot of respects, the threats within Pakistan and the Taliban threats within Afghanistan are much one in the same. It is possible that if we no longer have a presence there, the vast majority of those threats probably go away. For the most part, the desires of these troublemakers are confined to holding regional control. There are some risks involved with leaving their destiny within their own hands, but it seems that at least at this point, the benefits outweigh the risks. The risks could potentially be addressed through a small covert presence and high tech intelligence.

You have to wonder if we wouldn't potentially benefit from negotiating a regional capability, low profile presence somewhere within India. India has many similar concerns about Pakistan and to some degree Afghanistan. India is a country that has a vested interest in US markets. It seems like the possibility of mutually beneficial agreements with India has some real potential. During the Cold War, India had an alignment of sorts with the Soviet Union, but today the fit for a strategic alliance with the US is far more promising to them. If we had to choose a regional strategic partner, it would make a lot of sense to resolve some differences between the US and India and unite on common interests. I believe there is some of this happening behind the scenes and if so, it makes good sense.

To many Americans, India is perceived as being a bit strange and we struggle with understanding Hinduism which is the dominant religion in the country. However, India is very religious tolerant and claims itself to be a secular government. They have not been immune to religious conflicts, but over about the last 30 years since their Independence, India has on the whole pulled off a fairly successful secular government. India has a long history of religion in the country but on the whole, it is far from theocratic. With a population just behind China and 4 times as large as the US, it manages to deal with religious differences pretty well. Although it may be difficult to relate to the many cultural differences between India and the US, we have many common geo-political and economic interests. One of these common interests may very well be in containing the religious based fanaticism in the region when it poses a threat to governments.

1NewDay, Very nicely said. Thank you.

riley,

By your own logic, you say and agree that "entry points are monitored" by CCTV.

By this logic, which is the same as mine, you can review all of the people who entered that place (just before they entered it), during the time of the murders, and have a narrowed down number of possible real suspects ---- again, if you can find the tape.

Another thing to consider when thinking about all this ---- Retrieve and guard all the REAL bullets from the heads, or near the vicinity of the slain U.S. officers. If in fact it was this Abdul Saboor, or any Intelligence officer in the Afghan Interior Ministry for that matter ---- those officers might all be issued, and required to carry a standard issue gun, just like in our military. If indeed it was Saboor, he probably, most likely would have entered the room, not wanting to set off any red flags on camera about what he was going to do ---- then made his kills with the standard issue gun. But, if the bullets that killed our U.S. officers is different (a different caliber or make) ---- than from what an Afghan Intelligence Officer or regular Afghan forces issue is ---- this might help pinpoint the real killer.

No I don't want to make you. How ridiculous this conversation with you has become. Just one question, how old are you.....

Ridiculous. Lay off what exactly.... Go in peace and have a nice life my friend.

Sally is a sparkling goddess of truth, beauty and light.

*grump going for any suck up points he can get*

Eric are you lying? you are probably not a Christian.

Right, because Christians don't EVER lie.

nope they dont they just take your money and rape your children.

This will never stop, as long as we remain in that hell hole. Why is it so hard to learn from our mistakes? Like expecting tribal goat herders to become a democratic nation, to treat their females with respect, that moving forward requires sacrifice, that America thinks because we want it, that everyone will fall in line? How about getting out the business of occupying middle eastern countries, and policing this crazy world. Afghanistan doesn't even have an Airforce or a Navy, so how are they any threat to us anymore? The fact is they want us gone, good, we should have left their 7 years ago, after taking out 98% of Al Queda in that country at that time. They are not even 40 left in that entire massive country according to that idiot General McCrystal, listening Obama?

Don't worry about christians lying or for that matter saying anything your tyrannical justice department is doing its damndest to gag all christians.

Ted

Is that what happened to you? You should get rid of your bitterness because it will eat you up!

Also think of this we are drilling in preparation for trouble in Korea at this moment. For those of you who get your history from TV Mash the tv show is about a war that started when I was 3 years old and the ceasefire was signed when I was in the 1st grade. I am retired and will be 65 years old this year and we still have troops there. Couldn't the US, Russia and China negotiate a treaty to stay home and let everybody else kill each other and quit spending our grandchidren's money fighting in other countries civil wars.

Wow Ted, that really added to the cerebral nature of this discussion.

I agree- just bomb them off the face of the earth. We don't realyy need their oil. We have enough here if to be self sufficient.

Saboor's family were being interrogated, sources told NBC on Sunday

Rendition them to a "interrogation friendly" country.

Very likely and sadly true.

This only proves - once again - that we are wasting lives and money over there. Nothing will work.  They hate us and will never accept our presence. There will always be something that sets off these things. We need to start pulling up all the stakes now.

"Winning the hearts and minds" . . .remember that one? A 5th grader with minimal access to the history of conflict in the Middle East, including failed invasions by both Russia and Great Britain, would have quickly discerned that was a load of carp. The whole of the Middle East will never fully embrace Western ideas, and they sure won't embrace the notion of being invaded under the auspices of "We're here to help." It's way past time we got our military men and women out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I'm talking about every last on of them. . .no "peace keepers" left behind.

Religion will do that.

Maybe we should round them up and send them back so they can kill each other.

That is because they do not separate church and state. Even the ones here in America do not, and then expect everyone to accept their ways...

The Afghani people realize the Quran is 'just a book'. President Karzai accepted our apology--granted, there is a lot of division in the US over whether we should have apologized in the first place--but what it all really comes down to is that they are tired of the continued disrespect our soldiers have shown them.

From the beginning of the war, starting with the Abu Ghraib mess, through the recent deplorable incident with our soldiers videotaped urinating on dead people through this latest perceived disrespect in the matter of the improper disposal of their holy book, we have, through the actions of our soldiers, who are our representatives there in the Middle East, shown little respect and little reason for them to want us there. I'm sure many of our soldiers are honorable and have done good in Afghanistan, but the massive media coverage over the bad things that has happened outweighs the coverage of the good.

First impressions are important, and the Afghani people's first impression of us has not been good. Our military is the strongest in the world, also one of the largest, if not the largest. We are well-trained and well-organized and so when things like this happen, the Afghani peoples don't see that it's the actions of a few 'bad apples', they see it as disrespect of them and their culture as a whole since those few took orders from higher ups, then those higher-ups must feel the same way as the 'bad apples'.

Those on here who are protesting that the furor over a burned book is disproportionate apparently have forgotten that video of the soldiers urinating on the dead. When that broke I was horrified to see some of the people posting messages to that article actually condoned the deed--we are supposed to be civilized, we are supposed to be 'better' than them, and a representative of our country, our soldier, goes and does something horrible like that. I'm not aware of any reports that say the Afghani people have desecrated our dead--we are proving, through our own actions, that we are indeed the 'heathen infidels' the Taliban have demonized us to be, and those moderate and peaceful Muslims who call for peace between us are finding it hard to reach the average Muslim when atrocities are being committed that show us to to be every bit as 'bad' as the Taliban and al-Qaeda make us out to be.

It's time to pull out of the Middle East. While our initial intentions may have been honorable and the majority of our people are also honorable, the actions of the few have spoiled it for the many.

You're right, Proud, but they're American religious zealots and they would NEVER stoop so low as to use their religious ideology to legislate, discriminate, hate, alienate, or physically harm another American citiz. . .wait just a cotton pickin' minute. . .they're doing all that and more right this minute or, at least, trying to! Dang near went right over my head there for a minute! WHEW! Back to reality!

@dyernavy

How would you feel if the Afghanis were burning bibles? Enraged maybe? Well guess what, their not. Shows who is behaving more maturely.

It's NOT just a few bad apples,it's ALL MUSLIMS!! WWJD-piss on dead ones ,burn all qurans and I can't stand all the elected officals apoligizing for anything we do!! They had bin laden hidden for 10 years--BBBBBSSSTT.

How convenient burn a freakin book and they go ape-shxx....... the A.H. General on NBC tape must have just been awakened let him go back to sleep.

I suppose O'B will be bowing to one of the Sheik's now........apologizing again.....

Fly the flag at half mast oh sorry these guys aren't on the Oscars are they?????

H. H. Holmes, MD

Kill them all is right, but i would include women and child. The women give birth to these children that grow up and keep the horrible cycle going. Call me cruel, but its true.

You are cruel...and not very bright either.

Bring Them All Home. NOW

Ah, but the corporations are making millions, if not billions, of dollars so the stockholders and CEO's are making money even if it comes out of the taxpayers pocket and costs American lives. It's the good ole American way. Just like Nam. Just like Iraq. We're fighting the wrong war against the wrong people.

"D'allah Akbar" The American War Chant

JC, you win the booby prize.

About two years ago I worked with a guy who had been a contractor in Iraq. He told me then that when he had been there, a couple of years before, four year contracts had been signed. This would put it before Obama was even elected. And the timeline of the withdrawal fits to a tee. These 'wars' are indeed business deals, planned and executed. Just so you know, I'm the mom of a Gulf War vet, and a member of that big gun group. And I think this whole deal stinks to high heaven. I question who burned those books in the first place....and just how the hell were they put, partially burned, in trash to be taken out by Afghan natives.

Now, since I have the floor.... To the commentor writing about The Constitution, First Amendment rights, and living in a free country... We're talking about Afghanistan here, NOT the U.S. Unfortunately, OUR Constitution has no bearing in THEIR country.

...to the the wrong people.

Make it 4, and counting clebro. Bummer Obama better get busy with that pen, and paper! The number of apologizes he needs to make to the American people is stacking up on his desk.

We're not Muslim enough for an apology. I'm kidding, he's up for re-election, he'll whip something up to stay in office.

@H.H. Holmes. In this last blunder by Bummer Obama, he was committing political suicide in November. By then he won't be able to see over his desk with the amount of letters of apologizes he needs to write to the American people who have lost loved ones in Afghanistan. ... FDR was a man of genius, a great talker and his solutions would be quick&just for the American people. JFK served in the military as a commander on a boat made of plywood - PT109. He would also resolve the situation in Afghan quickly, and decisively. Ronnie Reagan was a nutcase, and all the Muslims knew that. 'Hey, dat Ronnie guy is crazier den us'. Still his decisions/orders would correct the situation in Afghan also. BUT, Ronnie might just push the button anyway after we left, just for kicks. Very dangerous leader.

HEY GENIUS,

They were part of a NATO coalition...they would be there ANYWAY, whether we left the country or not. Thats what NATO does....

Read (or reread the article)

I would guess riley, that you are directing that post to me. If the USA moves to withdraw the NATO coalition collapses. That means all US personnel associated with NATO would be ordered to other posts, elsewhere. That would have saved two American lives who were murdered in cold blood. By the way, even if you sit behind a desk in a hostile country, carry a weapon locked & loaded, and trust no one!

The idiots who burned the Quran have the blood on their hands. The C.O's should have their butt in a sling. You put your hand in a hornets nest you are going to get stung. Just plain stupid action no matter what your politics or beliefs are.

Obama apologized alright! With a bullet in Osama's head!!!!!!!!

They made troops in Nam stop collecting ears and various other body parts off dead VC and NVRA. In the particular branch of Budhdism practiced in Nam they can't get into heaven without all there body parts. If they don't have them, attached or not, to be buried they're doomed to wander. Not knowing the customs and religion traits of a foreign country where your shooting the population with regularity can get your arse in a sling. Whoever ordered the burnings needs to be kicked in the butt repeatedly. I'd say move the numblies to a front line unit but they'd only get more men killed. Though someone would probably frack their arses soon enough.

When Obama apologizes and bows to foreign dignitaries he does that in your name and mine. I have no master on earth. I will bow to no man or woman and I would not apologize in this instance and as my representative neither should he in my name.

Does anyone think Obama apologized in an attempt to not have bloodshed over the burning? Sometimes you have to do what is politically harmful here to try to protect ours who are over there.

But it backfired, didn't it? To apologize to your enemy shows weakness, not strength. Especially in Middle Eastern culture

Yeah, you do all of that and, while you're at it, get a clue and understand that the Quran is to Islam what The Holy Bible is to Christianity, and it AIN'T no "trivial book." Indeed, I submit that the Quran means more to Islamics than The Bible will ever mean to Christians, at least in its physical form. You must not get out much and/or you completely disregard people who aren't like you as being insignificant, along with everything associated with their culture(s). That, my fellow American, is indicative of a superiority complex based entirely on lack of respect for others with a steaming side serving of willful ignorance. You, and I for that matter, might not like or even understand their culture all that much, but it's their culture and their right to revere the Quran to the degree they do. It is also our responsibility, as civilized human beings, to respect their right to do so and, to the degree humanly possible when at war, our military personnel should do the same. Towards that end, it would only make sense to avoid offending them so as to avoid stirring up exactly this sort of visceral response in the first place. Four American soldiers are dead because, in typical form and fashion, Islamic zealots are furious over the burning of their "holy book" and they're willing to kill and be killed in retaliation. Heck yeah we owe them an apology! If they had invaded America and started burning Bibles, how long do you think it would take for the Bible-thumpin', gun-totin' crowd to form a mob and get jiggy with it? Think on that for a spell, won't 'cha?

News flash for asknreceive the only respectful way to dispose of a defaced bible is to burn it. So if the only way to dispose of our holy book is to burn it why should anyone automatically assume that burning a holy book is somehow disrespectful in our eyes. And if not burn it how would you dispose of it?

Your statement about the only "respectful" way of disposing of a Bible being to burn it is an outright lie. Never in my entire life have I ever heard anyone say anything about burning The Bible as being respectful, and I've been to a few hundred Christian churches over my 50+ years on this earth. I recycle all things "paper", but then I'm respectful that way. Indeed, if I weren't inclined to recycle a Bible, I'd be inclined to give it to someone else who might need and/or want it, but then I'm respectful that way too. Epic fail, lonereb.

`I know a large number of Christians and NONE of them would want to kill over a Bible being burned...ever. You sound so poltically correct as a good liberal should

Oh, if only I were a Liberal you might be right. You failed to comprehend that the scenario I cited involved a foreign nation invasion and the burning of Bibles here in America by same foreign nation military personnel, you know, to more closely reflect the circumstances surrounding the Quran burning and whatnot in Afghanistan. Sorry, better luck next time, justredd.

Invading country would not make it out of Oakland in the west or Brooklyn in the east get a clue!

Although, I appreciate your weak attempt at humor, the situation in Afghan is a crisis. It is no laughing matter to Americans!

Come on, Demetrious, this whole war is a joke.

@H.H. ... Your an M.D. ? Is it a joke when a patient seeks your help? Or do you just count the money? .... As far as 'this whole war is a joke' you go tell that to the families of the 4 Americans who were murdered in cold blood. Tell them it was just 'a joke'!!!!

From my point of view after watching the idiocy of the domino theory in action. From Korea on the US has been in a stae of insanity. When you are a senior in HS and your whole address book is APO and FPO addresses (military overseas) you begin to wonder what we are doing. We still have troops in Germany, Italy and Japan 67 years after they surrendered. The ceasefire in Korea was signed when I was in the 1st grade and it looks like that is heating up again and we still have troops there too 58 years later. I don't want your generation to sacrifice 50,000 young people in a war your government won't let them win like mine did. Please look at the reality instead of the demogagary. Is it really going to make you safer for us to have troops in countries like Afghanistan?

Very good rixter! I didn't bring up the subject about US General John Allen. He should have been immediately relieved of his command after his public apology to the Afghans last week. The only thing that 'apology' did was add fuel to a smoldering fire, and put troops under his command in an even more dangerous situation then they already were in. Instead, a US General should have been giving orders for a total lockdown of the base. Secure all exits and entrances. If fired upon shoot back. Protect the soldier next to you, and then protect yourself. Order a stop on all officers that perform their duties outside the base. Very simple, yet seems very complex to John Allen.

Demetrious, Gen Allen
is owned by Obama, he has no power to allow that kind or action. as I have said
before we watch as they sneak on base steal our fence lines and the Military is
not allowed to even reply with NON lethal means. It’s the reason no one respects us or fears
us we are not allowed to do anything out
here that would offend or hurt our Afghan friends....it’s a CID investigation
if one round is fired and it’s a good chance that the military member , his
chain of command and anyone else involved
no longer has a career.

It’s so sad we as a nation cannot even help Syria where
people are dying because of China and Russia and we think we have power
here? just look at how they are backing
down from Iran, we lost our done to them , nothing done, now we say we do not
think they are building a bomb...we need a president with the right mind who won’t
back down or turn the socialist cheek every time someone stands up and
threatens us.

Frank Bedra, a US General can always make his own orders, and face the consequences afterword. John Allen's public apology was not an order from Bummer Obama. It was given on his own. ... US General MacArthur did not follow orders given by president Harry S. Truman. Instead, MacArthur faced the consequences. He was fired and relieved of command. Truman was wrong. MacArthur was trying to save American servicemen under his command in Korea. Just a lesson in history. ...

A history lesson about Korea from you is like a mission accomplished lesson from g.w. Mac did one thing right -Inchon- he and Ned Almond pissed more American lives away since a frontal charge in the Civil War. And please go on and tell us, how would it helped to be "locked and loaded" if the two service men were shot point blank in the back of the head? You should change your name to delirious.

Read the "Coldest Winter" "Give Me Tomorrow" and tell us how great a general Mac was.

I'm from Milwaukee where the MacArthurs had a mansion on Wisconsin Ave and most of my parents generation didn't agree with him. We have civilian control of our military and in the long run that is better than say Japan Where the military led them into a disasterous war because they underestimated the will of the enemy. But I believe our government has been suffering a psychotic break with reality for 67 years and it is time for the people to put them back on their meds.

Good morning, loner. Do you enjoy reading? Please try the above books mentioned... I get a kick out of the keyboard warriors. Imagine Utah Beach, Iwo Jima and and every other war only fought at 20 below zero.

Smoking a stone pipe. US General MacArthur politely requested the use of nuclear bombs from Harry S. Truman in order to save lives under his command in Korea. That would have stopped the Chinese/Korean troops from the killing, and reverse the war in our favor ... Instead, he was denied the request, fired, and relieved of command. It is still a stalemate in Korea 60 years later.

Wow, that explains it all thanks for setting me straight.

A simple and sensible solution....Well said.

Jerry ... 'trying to build a country'? Why should we be doing that? Let them build their own country. ... 'wage a war'? There is nothing to be won in Afghanistan. NOTHING! ... We went there to get Bin Laden we finally found him living comfortably in Pakistan for the last four years watching porno on his computers. In the meantime, we lost many lives in Afghanistan ...... Old tune, you may have heard 'For What It's Worth' Buffalo Springfield 1969. How many American/NATO lives are worth the cost of winning something that does NOT EXIST?

All we have to do is bring the troops home, inform all muslim leaders that if they ever attack us again we will dispose of outdated bombs on their sandboxes and let them kill each other. Make sure it is known worldwide if an extremist from your village or town attacks us we will hold you responsible and take appropriate action from the sky and leave it at that.

It has everything to do with their religion, Islam, and while it may be indicative of moronic ignorance, they like it like that. The real issue is that other countries, including America, Great Britain and Russia, just can't seem to get that through their collective skull. Every religion has its share of zealots. Islam just seems to have more of them who are ready, willing and able to exact revenge for any act that offends their ideology. How many documented examples of that finite fact will it take to convince people like you that they are dead serious? Get out of the dark. Things are much clearer here in the light.

Read a little history asknreceive, Islam that peaceful religion has been attacking the west for its entire history. They have invaded Spain, Austria, Romania and Albania. The great voyages of Columbus and Magellan and the travels of Marco Polo were a result of their closing the trade routes to China. The Queen that financed Columbus did so after marrying the neighboring King and together freeing their land from the moorish (muslim) invaders who had occupied it for I think 2 centuries. We all remember the Romanian war chief who drove the Turks (muslims) from his country. His bloody solution to sending them packing is legendary. He set pointed stakes along the road to his castle and while alive impaled the captured Turks naked upon them. He is a hero in Romania but we just call him by his lat name Dracula. The pope was so desperate when those same Turks surrounded Vienna he called on my people to come to their aid. If Austria fell it opened the path to the direct pass to Rome through the Alps. Read real history books you might learn something other than what Hollywood tells you.

lonereb, you're a self-declared world history expert, but you're no master of the obvious. War is always about land and power grabs, and you clearly fail to understand the role religion has played in war throughout all of history. I suggest you read a real history book alongside a real history book about the beginnings and progression of religious sects. You just might learn something. Now, you are free to troll about the Newsvine and you might want to choose another subject for your diatribes. As far as I know, I haven't written one post in response to anything you've posted, with the exception of my responses to your nasty replies to my original posts. You're just not that interesting, nor are you that well-versed on the subject at hand. In other words, go play with someone who's mind is as small and closed as yours. Good grief!

Sounds like our great president is setting all of you over there up for a massacre.

Tracy, that is the most inflammatory and un-American comment made on this Newsvine so far today, in my humble opinion. While the policy may be flawed, it's not a policy created and instituted by President Obama. Said policy was in effect under Bush as well as it pertained to non-combat zones and where diplomatic endeavors with Afghan governmental and law enforcement representatives were/are underway. Hateration much?

Tracy was not making an unAmerican comment, Obama has had control of both Senate and House for almost 2 years in the beginning of his administration. I was not happy about all of Bush's policies, but Obama could have made plenty of changes regarding the wars we are in or not.(he did not have a problem circumventing congress when he helped Libya) I think Tracy is calling it like it is, since when is it un-American to state what I think is a pretty good opinion of what this President is setting up our nation up for. Republican or Democrat does not matter, look at the record and failures to do the right thing...and it is not Obama. What's un-American is to keep voting for someone because your ego will not let you see that you made a mistake with Obama and move on to trying to correct that mistake. Not saying there are any great chioces but at least trying someone new that has not been screwing up the country can't be worse than keeping someone in that has a record like his. (czars/fastnfurious/ salyndra/finnish car company) All politicians talk their way into being the hope and change, when they fail you don't keep them in, you move on to somebody that hopefully will do the right thing, whomever that might be.

You make quite the leap assuming that I voted for President Obama, MBG, and you would be wrong. As to the issues pertaining to current military policy in Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter, take it up with those who legislate such matters as well as those who advise those who legislate such matters. I sincerely hoped the wars in Afghanistan and in Iraq would end under the current administration. That said, no POTUS operates in a vacuum. Wait, that's not entirely true. G.W. Bush operated in a vacuum, along with his Master Puppeteers, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, and they told outright lies to Congress and to American people to advance their Military Industrial Coin Machine ideology. MY BAD!

Oh, and another thing. . .I'm calling out Frank as Mr. Bogus for labeling himself "ex-military." That's not a term used by honorable service men and women now "retired" from the military. Only a person who never served or who was put out dishonorably would be inclined to use the term "ex" in defining their military career.

No, asknreceive, ex-military refers to those who served and did not retire, but left honorably. You are an a##hole for inferring that we who served and left after our tour of duty was over were less than honorable!

The man was a drugged out pedophile to boot.

tom mc: BECAUSE THE PERPETRATORS OF 911 WERE TRACED TO THE TALIBAN & AL-QUAIDA!!!! THATS WHY. How soon ignorant people like you forget!!!

Lack of leadership? A US General John Allen makes a public apology to Afghan, and puts people under his command in more life danger situation then ever before. Bummer Obama takes the time to write a letter of apology to Afghan leaders which even compounds the problem?

The people of that region have for thousands of years live on what they could steal and cheat out of others.

Rob...Exactly!!! Tracy...please site your source.

BW001: its people like you that are a symbol of American weakness!!

Bernie, no actually you are the 'symbol of American weakness'.

what our prez..........stick up for the American people........now that's funny

he just keeps Karzai, living in style

Karzai just laughing all the way to his Swiss bank account

you know the devil/ovomit/hitler won,t say hes sorry.the ineligible upsurp squatter,and his band of traders.don,t care about we the people.they only care about destroying this country.the devil is trying to fool you again.and the musmutts too.but we the people aren,t fooled by the devils magic act.we don,t like the devil or magicians.god bless america

Yeh, the last time that religious prick in Florida burned a Quran it cost 12 American troops their lives. Brave to burn a book here in the States when it's not your arse on the line taking the brunt of other people's stupidity. At least we had a legitimate reason to be in Afghanistan unlike that lied for war in Iraq that. Oh...wait...I forgot the billions of dollars made for Halliburton, Brown&Root and the other big businesses in Iraq. So over 4k dead and 33k or so wounded for a lied for war is ok as long as big businesses and the stockholders made money. Bleh

yeah let's run to our homes and lock the doors............

and those companies have paid the govt for the right to make that dinero, go figure