Are they planning on archiving these and putting on the web? I like how they have Galileo's retraction, wonder how many fingernails they had to pull off to get him to say the world was flat and the sun circled the earth?

People who would be ashamed to be called racists or homophobes have no trouble at all finding any article about the Catholic Church as an excuse to spew their hatred of something they do not belong to and do not understand.

You are really sick...don't judge all by the actions of some. Are all people gay because some are?? Idiot.....

The Vatican has decided that we common gentiles are worthy of viewing some secrets kept by the elite saints that are one step closer than God.

I'm... humbled

Let me know when they reveal the gospel according to Jesus :P

@Newnews, I was raised Catholic and supported that criminal, patriaricial pedophile ring for 20 years, so I can say whatever I want about them.

The world will be a much better place when all of the doors are opened and we can see their 2000 year old dirty laundry. Maybe the popes will sell their artwork and gems and actually do the work of Jesus of feeding, clothing and caring for the lesser among us instead of trying to turn back the clock 1500 years to when they were relevant.

Jesus would be mortified and wouldn't even recognize the Catholic Church, with its protection of pedophiles and hoard of wealth being used to enrich the religious elite.

Epis, the Catholic Church has one of the most widespread charities not just here in the United States but in many other countries. Catholics are taught that its not enough to just believe in God, but that we are called to do good works. For one thing, people are unaware that the Catholic Sisters started the hospitals that you and I use on a regular basis. You wont hear that from your preachers OR an athiest. How would they know? How would YOU know?

Just think what great historical documents are in the Vatican library, paintings, sculpture, writings; must be a treasure strove of knowledge.

FYI the Catholic Church has the largest organiztion of charitable institutions in the History of the World. The hospitals, homes for the elderly, the orphanages, the vast educational system, no one can come close to what the Catholic Church has accomplised for the good of humanity and to show the compassion of Jesus and what true Christianity is. You don't hear about THAT in the NEWS do you!

There has been a very narrow focus on the sins of the clergy without mentioning the thousands of saints--let us put the picture in perspective. Jesus had twelve Apostles, one betrayed Him, the others were faithful--so out of 500,000 plus priests the percentage of those who have disgraced the name of what a Priest should be is roughly 2.5% to 3.5%, these are the statisticts.

The Church has done a mightly fine job of trying to demostrate what Christianity is about--people who point fingers have three pointing back at themselves. Remeber the words of Jesus, "I came to call sinners." Lets light candles not throw water on them.

I don't doubt that they have the bones of Moses and Jesus down in there somewhere too....

Steve N:

"Jesus had twelve Apostles, one betrayed Him, the others were faithful..."

Even that story has come into question.

Why, under the pope's direction, is the church hoarding the vast wealth they own instead of putting it to good use and giving it to the needy? Italy had a major earthquake two years ago and all the pope did was send his prayers.

Why, under the pope's direction, is the church covering up and protecting the pedophiles they employ around the world?

Why, under the pope's direction and man made law, are priests not allowed to marry?

Both of my great grandfathers were married Greek Catholic priests (given permission by the pope back in the 1500's) who came to America in the early 1900's, and under the threat of ex-communication, were told by the pope to turn their property over to the church (so it couldn't be passed down to their heirs), or give up the priesthood.

Any sporadic "good" exhibited by the church is overshadowed by its inherent evils; power and money.

Though I think that the historical artifacts in the Vatican archives should be in a museum for all the world to see.... At the same time I think that this institution of human ignorance would be best served by keeping the evidence of that title locked in an underground vault for all time. Maybe we can collectively evolve out of this foolishness quicker if those things remain under lock and key. Maybe not. It is possible that anything that would bolster their cause would certainly be public knowledge. For instance Galileo... One example of many I'm sure that down their that does them disfavor. I'm sure they have letters from Pius XII to Hitler about the Vatican's involvement in weeding out Jewish families in WWII Europe. Family records were given over to Hitler via the Vatican, and a lot of you like to talk about the charities... No amount of charitable work could atone for the damage this institution has done, both directly to humanity, and indirectly by slowing down the progress of human knowledge.

Wow wolfpack your doing what? sounds like advertisement to me! if you were doing it out of the kindness of your heart you wouldnt be talking about it.

How many times has the Pope and/or the Vatican given government their blessing to go to war.?

HMMMM now where does it say in ANY bible that being "WITH" government is what religion is about.?

If im not mistaken the message of Jesus (if you choose to believe in him) was something more on the lines

of relinquish your worldly possessions, and come walk with me (meaning him -Jesus) for it is the meek that shall inherit the earth. Those in power and beguiled by wealth shall perish for it is easier for a common man to follow with me. (Somewhat paraphrased but the point is accurate.)

So again I ask "How can the Pope, Vatican, or catholic religion put in a good word to God to help benefit America by blessing any of our shameless wars (which by the way are almost always about greed, power, and/or oil) unless I missed the part in my very young youth (when they were brainwashing me with all that catholic drivel) where God gave a rats ass about mans petty wars and greedy ways.

Im just gonna use plain ole intelligence and come to the conclusion that the Vatican, the Pope and the catholic religion are heretics and propoganda wizards.

P.S. Thats not to say that there arent some very kind and gentle souled people out there under the catholic umbrella who are actually trying to live a god fearing wholesome sinless life.

Exactly, Mary Lou, he spent thousands of dollars that could have been given to the needy just to write that comment and he made some people convert to Firemanism before he helped them, too. Damn you and you shennanigans, wolfpack!

Heres some food for thought.

"What if" and please read through to fully digest this idea.

What if the true religion and "Gods Rules" or rather desires for how man conducts himself was already deigned before any bible or religious teachings ever even began.

Imagine for a second that you are God. You are the ultimate supreme being with the highest of possible love, caring, intelligence, skill, strength and moral fortitude, etc.

When you create man, you would have to have some inkling of man's ability to do wrong.

However being God you wish to be fair, so you dont want to make man a robot with precognitive decisions already built in, however you want man to be good. What a perplexing dilemma.

Heres a possible cure God probably thought of (cause it makes sense to me and i'm definitely not god)

Give every human being a "Conscious" which will give him a definitive understanding of right and wrong, but also give him "Free Will" to choose good or override his Conscious innate feeling of right and wrong.

WOW how simple that is.

I guarantee if you took 10 different religious leaders and put them in a room and asked them to seek out (using their conscious) the most sinless or humane way to be you would get 10 same answers. After all no matter how we justify our bad behavior at the end of the day, our conscious still "nags" us at night when we look in the mirror and try to justify that crappy or henous thing we did. We inately know right from wrong.

NOW lets look at the bible........ hmmmmm quite the riddle book, its translated into multiple languages, it can be decifered in many different ways (as this blog alone proves) and if you put those same 10 different religious leaders in a room and asked them a question about the bible ... You would probably get at least 5 different answers.

SO I HAVE TO ASK .... If you were God would you give your "children steadfast inate knowledge about right and wrong......... oooorrrrr would you give them a riddle book.

OK if your still with me Ponder this idea.

All religious leaders will agree that the bible is "Protected" on earth (after all it has survived book burnings etc)

All religious leaders will agree that if there is "Good" then there has to be "Bad" IE Yin & Yang.

All religious leaders will agree that "False worship" is one of the greatest sins of all (how often do these preachers chant that you have to be of their denomination or your damned for eternity)

and All religious leaders will agree that one of "Satan's" greatest tools here on earth is False Worship.

and as stated above All religious leaders will agree that their "Translation of the scriptures is the right translation and its the other religion that has it wrong"

Now for the "What if"

What if Satan wrote the bible to confuse the human masses, making it so confusing that it can be decifered in multiple ways, aiding in creating "loopholes" in its meaning to allow for different interpretation so as to cause multiple religious beliefs and dividing Gods people. Satan being smart would definitely write in this book that he was the "Bad guy" so you would believe it was Gods book. He would also have to put positive ways to act so you would believe it was Gods book, but he would make it confusing so he could create false worship. Also all religions agree that the earth is ruled over by Satan (at least since he was banished here). If Satan is ruling over earth then I would imagine he would protect his greatest tool "The Bible" and that's why it has been on the planet longer than any other book.

ALL the While .. God is up stairs shaking his head and saying to himself ..." All they had to do was follow my law (their conscious) and if they got confused come talk to me directly"

You dont need to go to a church, a rabbi, a preacher, etc. It just seems to make more sense that an all knowing, omnipotent supreme being wouldn't give us a riddle book , he would just make it our innate way of knowing right and wrong. Being all loving he would allow us the freedom of choice by allowing us to override it, and give us full reign to come directly to him when confused.

For those of you with children, think of it this way, would you give your kid a riddle book as a guide through life or if you had the power would you give them an innate steadfast built in "Map" of what to do and then be there for them when they stepped off the path.? Seems pretty silly to believe in the bible when you look at it this way, doesn't it?

by slavery you mean: being made to do anothers will?...well the christians and the church goers in the USA attend services on their own free will. So the real argument is the validity of organized religion, right? well one thing you have to understand (and if you have a belief in a Higher Being) is that a just God (or whatever one chooses to call their higher power) is completely and wholly Good and would want nothing but the best for His children. So he gives us free will, and because of that Free Will, we choose how we live our lives, the decisions we make, since the beginning of our existence...as human beings. God didnt kill the Jews of Holocaust, wasnt responsible for genocides of the past, or any and all significant horrors of the past or present..those were made from the actions of human beings...through free will. which by the way, if He had not given us, would then make us "slaves" and "zombies" going to church every Sunday. If your argument lies within the political/power of "organised religion", then i side with you. Because I believe that with so many different religions & beliefs, one has to ask himself/herself: CAN THEY ALL BE WRONG? SURELY THEY CANT ALL BE RIGHT? ORGANIZED RELIGION is a form of control, with that i can strongly agree. But if an individual has an honest, personal relationship with whatever Greater Being he/she believes in,thats what truly matters. Its SPIRITUALITY thats important, not religion. all organizations, religious or otherwise, have good and bad people in them....Peace.

The astronomer Galileo’s retraction of his theories of the galaxy after his trial on heresy charges in 1633.

First, why is this "Secret"? Hiding a little shame maybe? Secondly, i think its safe to say that Galieo is dead now and theres no need to threaten him with a coerced confession any more, unless you believe it still holds some kind of power in the afterlife. Wow, thats some heavy stuff for this early in the morning, i have to go......

CJ, Steve give them all the facts you want it won't change their narrow minds. The truth of history is that when times get tough right after the blacks and the jews we are the next target. All you can do is what my family has done for over a thousand years ignore them and pray for them.

Norm Helms:

"...is that a just God (or whatever one chooses to call their higher power) is completely and wholly Good and would want nothing but the best for His children. So he gives us free will,..."

What kind of "just" or "Good" creator would create life programmed for killing, war, greed, pain, etc.?

Whoever our creators were (and the bible does say "we will create man in our image"), must be just as screwed up as we are.

Why all the secrecy, isn't religion all about being open and transparent? What are they afraid off? I am not a Catholic but Catholics should demand that all documents be opened up to the public, it is their right as paying members and adherents of this religion. The Vatican is doing a huge disservice to humanity by keeping historical records secret, and by keeping their members in the dark and ignorant they will only lose more and more of them, no add campaign can substitute for transparency and access to knowledge.

That are some many documents that we will never see or hear about. The Vatican will never show all they have, if they did it more than likely be their down fall. Look I was raised catholic. The bible is a book of stories, can any of them be proved as true? I still enjoy reading the bible but I don't take as the truth as written. As for the Charities well yes they do good there for the most part. The sisters of charity do own hospitals but did you know they are supposed to be the poorest charity in the church? That is what we were always told, yea right. If all the documents that the Vatican has ever came to light the catholic church would come down.

For everyone who argues that a true loving God can't exist because we don't have an utopian society, and instead have famine, wars, etc.: That's because we're on Earth, not in heaven.

"For everyone who argues that a true loving God can't exist because we don't have an utopian society, and instead have famine, wars, etc.: That's because we're on Earth, not in heaven."

Jessicalc: Thanks for informing me of god's REAL plan. This earth thing is not such a good thing for us and is not working out too well, so what's his point?

It would take a very sadistic mind to create the bad and cruel in this world.

How about the investigation of pope joan?

I wonder when they will announce that the "Vatican City"... or as it is known really as...

"Pedophile City"... that it is really just a clubhouse where pedophiles and child predators can mingle, and be protected by other pedophiles and child predators...!

Hidden inside a hollowed out bible they found a stash of Playboy Magazines and a Boyscouts of America book.

What people really need to realize is that the church DID not write the Bible..it did however use only writing that met its own version of what it wanted said about Jesus...making sure that anything having to do with his youth was left out...that alone gives me questions. And also consider...it was not the church that ordered for the Bible to be put together.....My questions to the church would be why books were left out that dealth with the youth of Jesus ?

none were ever written perhaps

I agree that the church has been a force for mass deception. However, I disagree that they have used the Bible to that end. Throughout history, the Church has done everything it can to keep the Bible OUT of the hands of its followers so that they would not be able to see how out of harmony the Churches actions were with what was contained within it. Even now, most of the core teachings of the Church directly contradict what is in the Bible, but most Catholics don't realize it because they don't read the Bible.

So, you have a situation where atheists have only read a small portion of the Bible and declare it as a "dangerous lie", and then the very ones who attempt to defend it are not even living according to its teachings to begin with or have not studied it enough to know what is in there themselves. In the meantime, NO ONE - not the churches or the atheists, have the truth of the matter.

One of the biggest problems with the Bible is that it cannot be understood unless you look at the ENTIRE book as a whole, not cherry picking specific texts to support specific points, but looking at EVERYTHING the book says on a specific topic.

For example, what does the Bible say about carnal warfare? While it is true that the Israelites as a nation at times defended themselves from enemies or warred against inhabitants of specific lands, this was against VERY VIOLENT people who would not have allowed any peace in the land unless the confrontation took place sooner or later. These were people who were so violent that they thought nothing of rape, pedophilia, and sacrificing their babies to their gods by burning them alive. (Judges 19:25-28; 1 Kings 18:9, 10; 2 Kings 17:16, 17) However, in Isaiah 2:2-4 it declares that those "taught by God" would beat their swords into plowshears and would "learn war now more". Also, in the Christian era, Jesus warned that those who "live by the sword will perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52) Also, he said in the Sermon on the Mount to "love your enemies and pray for them". (Matthew 5:43-48)

Compare the principals above to the actions of the Church, and you see that, while the Church has a been a weapon of mass deception, the Bible had nothing to do with it. The 1700 year history of the church has been one of IGNORING the Bible and encouraging ignorance of it among its followers.

If the HRCC didn't write the bible who did? All the writers for the bible from Matthew to St. Paul are all member of the HRCC. Get your fact staight!

No of course it wasn't the church that ordered it put together, it was Emperor Constantine in 325 CE at the First Council of Nicaea, and the Catholic Church did not even exist yet. Catholicism was a Roman created, state run religion that all were "required" to believe in or be considered heretics and put to death.

Their souls will reap what they sow in the end for altering the word of God. All we can do is pray, believe in what we feel is right- love and forgiveness is key... other then that we're basically innocent- because we don't know the truth and can't be judged as so.

If you choose to live in your morbid little world with no hope, that is your choice. Until you find God you will have that restlessness about you. You will never be at peace. Good luck.

Jesus also said that he came to bring not peace, but a sword. I guess that it is apt that in part, he died by one.

If you really understood the bible or history, Will, you would not have posted what you just did. Read it sometime, and become enlightened. ;)

@ Vic-466118

You are kidding right?

As in, you do realize that the authors of the letters found in the New Testament were, in fact, Jewish.

Just wondering....

wurl girl perhaps you should tell that to Rick Santorum who is a catholic and calls himself a christianl every chance he gets.

Lori -- can you explain why I was a christian who moved to other religions and felt more at peace? Like I didn't have a crazy stalker hiding out my window when I wanted to give in to natural desires or like I didn't have a crazy man about to set me on fire because I had to lie to protect an innocent person or animal?

Is it because love and goodness aren't confined to a book? Maybe I'm confused here :) I think hmmm...at least it didn't hurt has it right. There are over 2000 different interpretations of the bible, and it's been altered hundreds of times to suit the needs of empires. I'd have LOVED to read the original bible, or the words of Jesus himself. It's too bad I never have and never will.

Ron, I woke up at age ten when I ask the Pentecostal Preacher if "God" farted, he turned beat red as I explained myself, I said "well you just told us that God created us in his own image and...." that was as far as I got before he slapped me across the face which was what my mom did to him about 30 seconds later. That night I thought about just what they meant when they said "God created man in his own image" and I realized what a load of crap that was. If he is like us in any way, mentally, physically, or spiritually then he is a flawed being and not a god deserving of worship, and anyway that word just gives me the willies, "worship". One would think a supreme being would be past petty egotistical behavior like requiring his creations to "worship" him. And whats with the 10 commandments? I mean is he the only god or not? if he is and there never was another then what would posses him to say "thou shalt have no other "god" before me"?

Those of you who say that the Roman seat of power has been a source of error for 1700 years are off by at least 200 years.

If what you mean is that Rome came into possession of a false claim to supremacy in the Christian church about 1700 years ago, you have misunderstood history. This error goes far enough back in history to have been documented in the New Testament.

It was much earlier than 300 A.D. that the legalistic "Judaizers" had begun to pervert the Gospel of Jesus Christ from a gospel of salvation by faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, to a false-gospel of salvation by faith AND meritorious life somehow "earning" righteousness--a blatant lie and contradiction to the teachings of the apostles. In this heresy, it is not difficult to understand why the emphasis came soon to be disassociated with faith altogether and placed almost entirely on merit, which is a damning trap because no one can claim merit before the throne of God. This heresy had its roots in the age of the apostles and was contemporaneous with them.

This presumed transference of power to that very city that crucified Jesus Christ happened before the last of the twelve apostles had died. It should not be difficult for the observant student to understand why the seat of worldly power became confused with the seat of spriitual authority in the minds of those who are easily misled.

Read the book. It's in there. There has never been a "successor" to an apostle, much less a successor to the apostle Peter, nor was Peter ever the "chief" of the apostles. Read the book. It's all in there.

The Roman church did not establish the New Testament canon. The New Testament canon was authenticated by the apostle John, who was an eyewitness to all that happened and who knew the authentic authors of the New Testament personally.

Truly we Christians (I should rather say, we apolitical non-denominational evangelical Christians who neither serve nor oppose any worldly power, or nation, or faction, or party--for we serve a King and are obedient unto Him alone--because it is true that the so-called "mainstream" Christian churches are wholly fallen away from the true teachings of Jesus Christ as written in scripture and bow and scrape unto the teachings of men) are members of an Apostolic Church, the boundary between which and the rest of the world is built on that foundation which was laid by ONE Savior and His Twelve Apostles ONLY.

But this Apostolic church is not headquartered in Rome and indeed, has no earthly capitol save Golgotha, the place of the skull, which is outside Jerusalem.

bad day deprogrammer? hemorrhoids acting up? GF find someone more amusing? or are you just one more conspiracy nut that blames your problems on everyone and everything because of course it could not be your fault your a miserable failure in life?

deprogrammer, the 'Church' lost it's credentials long ago, in that no matter what they've done 'In the name of The Lord,' with the years of bloodshed from the Holy War Crusades and the Inquisitions, to the modern day exclusions of people because 'they' are abominations according to the OLD TESTEMENT to MAKE people convert. Of course it is fine and dandy to 'sin' every single day without fail, because 'Jesus' died for our sins, and all you have to do is ask for forgiveness, so it's okay, hit replay on the sin button. The Greeks (Socrates, Plato) had envisioned and conversed about 'souls' approximately 200 years before what was depicted on The Dead Sea Scrolls concerning God. Shouldn't THEY be called the originators of the Christian religion as far as the Bible writings are concerned? Anyway, the Church as I see it, has lost the original message of Jesus, and in turn, has turned into what Jesus would detest if he popped in today, a BUSINESS.

Wonder if they plan to send 'em to various countries around the world for exhibition? Gwad!, I hope they don't send any of their collection of old bones over here. Someone might steal 'em and boil 'em.

How convenient to "allow" just "selected" documents from the "secret" archives to be read. Why not open up the library to the public........could it be there is something to hide, (Oops,I mean protect...right?)

For a good look at part of the churches history get a copy of "Foxe's Book of Martyrs"....and that's the tip of the iceberg.

I also wonder if they will share documents revealing how the Vatican funneled millions of dollars to Hitler's cause in the killing of millions of Jews in WWII.

Similar to those belonging to fraternal organizations like the Mason's as well as countless great "churches" few of the constituents know anything of the history behind these corrupt machines and their methods of control. Most churches today have no knowledge of what the Bible teaches and are just social clubs designed to make people feel good about themselves so they can build their empires and stash the cash. If folks would simply spend a little time STUDYING God's words and doing His will the world would be a nice place. However, don't hold your breath because in this pleasure seeking, self-centered world we live in is going 100 mph on a dead end street....it's all in the old black book and we are living in the last chapter.

And on ....and on....and on, it goes. Few realize the legacy laced in blood and how the Vatican came to wield so much wealth and power, power which is still abused today in the name of Jesus Christ. Things are going to get hot in the future for those who dare use the Lord for the sake of making a buck and satisfying their lust of the flesh. (Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. KJV) Case closed.....

The real "Weapon of Mass Deception" here is the post by Deprogrammer that started this sub-thread.

John 3078515

While no one is a scholar of or has mastered the Bible your post is a breath of fresh air compared to the usual beliefs or views held by "Christians" and "religious" people. Some think if they have a plastic Mary or Jesus statue hanging from their car mirror, or a stone statue in a little upright bathtub in the flower bed that this makes them a Christian. They rely on rituals, church affiliation, and a social gospel of giving time, talent, and treasure to buy their way to heaven. How ridiculous, how sad. As you put it "read the book, it's all in there". For centuries the Vatican has worked tirelessly to keep the Bible out of the hands of the public, with translation of the 1611 King James Version the "genie was out of the bottle" so to speak and for the first time in numbers that could not be controlled. So what was the next step, corrupt the translation to fit their doctrine. How they hate the fact that Salvation (Heaven) is a free gift from God by grace through faith (Romans 2:8-9) and that by trusting in the blood atonement for Jesus Christ alone for the payment of their sins they are forgiven....permanently....no strings attached. AGAIN I EMPHASIZE FREE.... that's the part the religious but lost crowd pushes and they do so all for the sake of money!!!They hide the salvation for free part to make folks think they have to "do this or pay that" to get to Heaven.......the dirty crooks!!!!

I agree Peter was not the first pope....for one thing we know he was married, (Matthew 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.)(KJV) Secondly the Apostle Paul indicates the reason he weht to Rome to preach the gospel was because no one had done so: Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: (KJV) As far as the Bible goes there is no mention of Peter ever having been in Rome! LastlY the pope is supposed to be a vicor or representation of Christ Jesus who we know was without sin, however the Apostle Paul rebuked Peter Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. Sorry, PETER WAS NOT THE FIRST pOPE!!!

Suffice to say we could write all night on this subject alone, however, it's a lot more fun and profitable just to spend time studying God's word. Anyhow, I appreciate you willingness to study and share God's words, I hope you have inspired others to do the same!

John, you have great insight! However, don't expect the people on this blog to comprehend your comments. A common fallacy is to think that the average person today, who quit school before high school graduation, or who left school with very little of the education they were supposed to have received, can understand these concepts. Most people have never even read the entire Bible through even once, and certainly not the six to 12 times, with sincere interest and diligent study, that would enable them to understand it. Just think of the idiot who uses a pig for his picture on the blog. This actually represents his self-image, what he thinks of himself, and can be closely associated with his IQ.

EK:

You are spot on with your comments. After reading countless blogs about anything remotely connected with the Bible it is quite apparent most have no idea what it says never having read beyond the first few pages let alone understanding right division. STUDY is key as you pointed out!

As for the pig thing I too wondered about the choice of photo, I hope you don't have anything against wood ducks!

It seems to me that the Christian church owes its existance to Rome. Had it not been favored by the later emporers, it likely would have been gone a millenium ago. And, yes Catholics are Christians. too. The other Christian denominations WISH they had the wealth of the Roman Church. Course, many of them have gotten a start in that direction, what with tv and all.

Anti-Catholicism -- the most PC prejudice.

Jim, "Let me know when they find Santorum's exorcism records,,, I want to find out who botched the job"

Was the funniest thing I've read all day! Thanks

This would be the case with any religion that seeks power and wealth (or hordes) it the way this one does. It is not unique in this way. Even clergy men are not beyond corruption. That is what makes us human. Take a look at what its doing to all of the worlds faiths: the more power its members confer upon them (religious bodies) the more corrupt the body becomes. Its our personal relationship with God that will save us from ourselves, not anyone or anything else. If people accepted that possibility, then religious organizations and power brokers of the world (now and throughout history) would be powerless and humanity would be a lot better off.

I sit here and laugh at the all the anti Catholic, anti religion posts here. The "anti" groups moan and groan of how the Christians keep trying shove our religion down their throats, and it's them here posting insults and condemnations.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof will ever be enough.

No "anti" about it, California. Merely an observation after some reading on the subject.

Pedestrian #3 - You've just now figured that out? Oh well, most people don't realize Catholicism is just another political power. A huge percentage of the hidden documents were hidden to protect the Vatican and Roman Catholicism. Nothing new about that tactic either.

For all the evil religion has brought forth, remember that there has also been good.

My mother was taken in by nuns as a young child when her Alcoholic parents split up and both abandoned her.

She is a Protestant to this day. She got her Masters degree from a world renowned University, and went on to do a lot of good in this world counselling troubled people from drug addicts to crime victims.

My parents were very decent to me and my siblings during our childhood. None of us are Catholic, but those nuns did a wonderful thing.

For all the evil, there is also the good.

So how much good counteracts the evil? Is there a specific number?

Maybe feeding 20 homeless people equals one death in the crusades. Maybe taking in an abandoned child makes up for the abuse of one alter boy... the good and bad cancel each other out. Or do they need to take in 2 abandoned children to make up for one molestation? I'm sure there is a chart somewhere that can explain all this. Maybe they can release that too.

who said it was about counteracting evil with good? I believe it is man's choice to commit good or evil acts, and god shows the difference between what is good or evil. The evil is a choice made, not to be counterbalanced by any choice to do good.

IndieParty:

Do not repay evil with evil, but overcome evil with good. It's not a number, it's a matter of the heart and one's relationship with God.

Thanks for the uplifting point of view sonarguy.

It is said that the Devil can quote the Bible. I'm sure Hitler was nice to some people. Organized crime donates to hospitals, churches, etc. Doing a good thing doesn't make you a good person.

Hitler loved children and deer. And that's about all he loved...except the Nazi Party, of course.

Fed up - bad day or just a miserable life?

Seems you are still missing it as well Indie...can't wave away the past. Your point is kind of moot. We cannot change the facts of the past, only live the right way now. Overcome evil with good, individually, toward all...love your fellow man as you love yourself, as best one can anyways.

Rick Crabtree:

Doing a good thing does not make you a good person. Very true, but being a good person requires some kind of substantive proof.

IndieParty:

Sorry, I just noticed, you were making reference to the history of an institution and I was referencing individual accountability.

For all the evil, there is also the good.

Tell that to the 30 million dead Aztecs and Incas who had their entire cultures and history decimated by the church. How do you balance or apologize for that?

The Vatican also has the largest collection of pornography in the world, in case you didn't know that. Not to mention that they have enough wealth to pay off our national debt. They have enough gold supply to make Fort Knox look like a Piggy Bank.

By the Holy See someone got it right. The Vatican is but a storage for stolen art during WW2. That's were the Germans hid their art of work stolen from their occupy territories.

For those who know no history, here's a clue: We are a violent, aggressive, bloodthirsty species. Human history is replete, on all sides with bloody murder. Its not just the church (any church), either. The tribe, the village, the city state, the kingdom, and the modern nation have spread their influence at the point of a sword, or a gun. I'd question that europeans slaughtered 30 million native Americans (on whatever continent), I'd like to see the numbers, but we killed them, to take their land. America exists, because we killed people, and took their land. If you can't say that out loud, you are kidding yourself. That's the way it has been, all the way back to the stone age. We are no better, or worse than a thousand others.

Really dosent sound like anyone has done any research on all the this BS just listening to rumors straight from hell!

the point is that good and evil are seperate and individual not to be counterbalanced with each other by any individual or institution. The fact that people associated with the Vatican or any priests did something wrong doesn't make the RCC evil or the catholic religion false, it simply means a few lost souls associated with it CHOSE to commit evil acts. the fact that you associate the acts of any precentage of a group of people with the whole group makes u just as ignorant as any racist or homophobe.

IndiePary: Sooo I guess you're going to turn a blind eye to Stalin who stated that "religion is an opiate for the masses", then went on to kill millions in the name of athiesm and communism. That was last century the Crusades were a thousand years ago. Lives have been lost in the name and absence of religion ... what is your point?

For all of you bringing up the crusades they didn't happen in a vacumn try reading a history book instead of watching a movie. For all native Americans want to blame the white guy for coming here try blaming the muslim for cutting off the trade routes to asia. Because a new route to asia is what Columbus,Magellian and Henry Hudson were looking for. And for how long did the muslim invaders occupy southern Spain 200 years was it? Until that young queen married the young king of the neighboring state combined their armies and drove them out. Then gambled on that young Itallian to find a trade route instead he found central america. Oh and let us not forget the turks (muslims) who invaded Albania, Romania and Austria the last got the pope involved so he requested help from the Poles maybe because Austria opened the direct pass to Rome through the Alps.

Agreed, far be it from the Catholic Church to release any incriminating documents exposing the Catholic Church to ridicule.

I believe the excommunication of Martin Luther is incriminating enough. He exposed the RCC for many of it's fallacies.

I would like to see some of the records, of the thousands of Protestants, who were being executed by the RCC. because they disagreed with the Pope.

After his successful revolt against the Catholic Church, many of Luthor's followers continued their revolt, aiming for the overthrow of the secular leaders from the kings down. These rulers of the 'Holy Roman Empire' -- today's Germany -- were the very same ones who had made it possible for Luthor to succeed in the first place. When they appealed to Luthor for his help he responded by preaching out against revolutionaries and condemned them "to Hell." Troops soon carried out the letter of his preachings by slaughtering many, many brand new Protestants. Luthor approved, saying it was God's will. His early training, as a Catholic priest, had also included a liberal helping of anti-Semitism and so he also spoke out against the Jews, many of whom were slaughtered along with the Protestant revolutionaries.

As we look back upon all of this bloodshed, I believe we have to realize that organized religion has always walked hand-in-hand with government and that, in fact, organized religion IS government, and always has been.

I suppose it can be said that the Protestants are the least harmful of the bunch -- so far -- and that they do good community service... My wife is a practising Lutheran and she hasn't slaughtered me yet. My mother was Irish Catholic though... That was a bit tough.

Nothing communicates like speaking one's own experience, eh ercillor? Awesomely funny last point in your post.

I would be really curious about the records they must have kept about the Inquisitions. That was a terrible time in history. Gut feel Galileo was threatened to retract his theories.

Edward: I suspect the Catholic Church is prepared to release documents on the slaughter of protestants when the protestants released documents on their slaughter of hundreds of thousands of catholics

My question is why does ther church have to have secrets at all. What would they want to hide? Isn't GOD a truthfull entity? Shoudn't sinners confess their sins?

Jnish1, the CHURCH confess it's OWN sins? There goes all the money out the window!

Do you know why the Pope wears that silly pointed hat???...... Numnuts doesn't want every one to see the horns on his head......

And their (protestant) membership in the Know-nothing party here in the US might be interesting. Want to release that first. I mean their entire platform was hate Catholics.

Before digressing into the trillion different directions that bringing up organized religion leads to, I recommend 2 wonderful, objective historical books representing top-rate scholarship rather than idiotic rage. One is a classic, written in 1946 when there was real classical scholarship still afoot, covering the historical process of the organization of the Church: "Christianity and Classical Culture: A Study of Thought and Action from Augustus to Augustine", by Charles Norris Cochrane - STILL available in many quality bookstores or online. From it you will see how the Faith grew in iterative (and necessary) fashion to have a coherent intellectual base of thought supportive of the pursuit of Faith. You'll see how an entire culture actually MADE the change from paganism to Christianity, and the impact of the inevitable relationship of Faith and Society in which people live.

The second book, published in 2006, does an extraordinary revelation of the problem of clerical sexual predatory behavior: "The Rite of Sodomy: Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church", by Randy Engel - a loyal Catholic who sees no discord between her adherence to the Church and her systematic exposing of the hypocrites who have invaded the ranks of the clergy of the Roman Rite.

NOTE: This brings up another subject of importance. The full range of the "Catholic Church" is NOT limited to the Roman Rite, but began with 5 Rites in the beginning and now includes the Roman and the Orthodox Rites as simply different cultural centers of the Church. This means that we can turn to our brethren in other rites and STILL obtain the Holy Sacraments and access to Holy Scripture - Rome has no monopoly on them, and the Vatican agrees with this!

This approach happens to have been our recourse to the abominable behavior we have witnessed within the Roman Rite recently, and certainly worsening over the past century. We have sought out a holy priest in the Orthodox Church and worship there with positive delight! And you know when you're receiving the truth and not the personal opinions of a priest of clergy group that rewrites Scripture disingenuously, lacing it with agenda-driven, watered down mistranslations. We just need to be: a) really alive with the love of Christ in the first place and not just belonging to a Church denomination for social support; b) taking the responsibility to learn all you can about God through personal prayer and participation in the Church Holy Liturgy (Orthodoxy's term for what the Roman Rite terms "Mass" - both are valid expressions of the beautiful and holy ritual pleasing to God, Who organized His first Chosen People into worshipping Him via an organized Church with an established ritual; and c) making informed decisions about how to find a way to give true, humble, and loving worship to our wonderful Creator. We do need a Church to nourish our Faith and keep it informed - there is too much about God to know to try going it alone, which is why God ensured that Holy Scripture did get consolidated during the time frame after Christ's death - we need to KNOW Whom we are worshipping!

So ... get with it, people! Stop whining, hold your clergy accountable, and start reading about the Faith. Never think you understand the process of history without looking into it, for instance through Cochrane's great classic on the subject, just as one example. And remember - Christ prophesied the Great Apostasy toward Him while He was on Earth. So He knows that the evil one is intent on creating mere dissatisfaction against God by anger toward the Church apparatus. But the answer is to fight on for the love of Christ, not get bogged down in the pompous pretentions of the Vatican (which over time grew to overstate its dominance over Church affairs, then turn lordly and worldly and legalistic). Hey - there's God out there, and right here with us, and let us keep our hearts lovingly devoted to Him, not Church organizations. That's the path to positive relationship with the eternal Holy Trinity.

Why is that the only thing you know is about the 10% of your friends that got in an posed as priests to try and hurt the Catholic church. Remember is does not work on the real catholics only on your ignorant friends.

Dear Robert Emmet,

I am reminded of a scene in a film about a neer-do-well Spanish priest whose maid surreptitiously serves well prepared horsemeat to a chance met Bishop resulting in the priest being elevated to the level of a Monsignor... Alec Guinness takes the part and acts it wonderfully well.

At a certain point in the story Monsignor Quixote -- for that, it now occurs to me, was his name as well as the name of the film itself -- encounters a young priest who, like himself, is dressed in 'civilian' clothes. He recognizes, through the young man's words that he is, indeed, a young priest and, so, addresses him as 'Father.' "How did you know that I am a priest?" asks the young man. The reply is one of the most moving in the entire film: "When you have been a priest for as long as I have," replies Monsignor Quixote, "you will know a priest when you meet one."

Forgive me, Fr. Robert, but if you are not a Jesuit priest then you do, at least, give great honor to the title. Nevertheless, you must recall that "there are fewer of yesterday's birds in yoday's lists," and that the Pagans had to be sent to the stake in droves before they agreed to give up their own faith -- no better or worse than yours -- in exchange for the 'blessings' of Christianity.

There aren't many perfect people on earth. And all churches are made up of people. If all you want to see is bad you can look at any church and find it. For that matter you can look at any organization made up of human beings. Churches tell us what they believe is the right way to live to achieve goodness.The judeo-christian religions all think God handed down the best set of rules. Short sweet and to the point. Everything we argue about is how we have added to the list, but we don't dispute the list.For atheists just skip one through three and it will still be a good way to live among your fellow beings.

How in the world are people continue to be fooled by this cult called a Catholic church,

when they calle them selves Father,, Jesus said call no man Father on earth your Father

for one is your Father which is in Heaven. can,t you see that these people are trying to

take away God who is Jesus Christ him self. They continue to call them self priest

when the only priest was Jesus Christ him self. The word priest is a spotless person.

IF you read in Hebrew it read on there should not be a priest, If we could confess to man our faults

and were forgiven , then Jesus would not had come and die for our sin,

These people are contrary to God,s word , if priest could have lived free from sin

then there would be no need for a new law, and a purified blood, ,a blood that new no sin.

I am going to tell these priest who have molested the little children , they had better watch

because God is going to give you your just reward, you did not pay for you did here on earth

; But i heard the Lord say if anyone mess with the little children that it would better for

person to jump into Sea with mill stone around his neck.

Read the works of Josephus, "The Wars of the Jews".

For the benefit of those whom don't already know it, the crucifixion of the Jews of Jerusalem in 69-70 AD was performed by pagan Romans, as the city didn't convert to Christianity until c. 330 AD. Likewise the Arch of Titus was erected during the pagan period, & the chains in the basement also date back to the pagan period, when Christianity was a persecuted faith. In no way can any of these things be attributed to Catholicism.

Relax Ray,

Nobody attributed these things to the Catholics. In fact, the first Christians of Rome are thought to have sprung from the ranks of those very same Jewish slaves who remembered -- quite well, one might guess -- the crucifixions of their many comrades; and of one leader in particular whose symbol, the simple outline of a fish, can still be found scrawled on underground Jewish crypts.

Which Pope was it who said of the Jews: "They are our older brothers?" He must have known something, with certainty, which we can only guess at.

There are many people on this thread who would jump to the conclusion that I gave-- not that you implied it in your original post, but that their inclinations are such. I merely thought it best to head it off at the pass, so to speak.

ercillor - There are also many Catholic Churches in Europe, France especially that call Mary Magdelen a Saint - whereas - growing up in my Catholic schools in Chicago they called her a prostitute

Which is it Saint or Whore? Or can you be both?

The Catholic Church has been so fearful of women - What happened to Pope Joan? release those documents

Also the history of the Castratos - young men castrated to sing for Pope Gregory

Barbara;

Did you think that I was defending the Catholic Church? Ray Thorne thought that I was attacking it. It was not my intention to do either... I would not defend any church, or any OTHER form of government for that matter.

Yes, I agree that the world has never treated women very well... I hope that this is now in the process of changing --- for the better.

Please do not confuse Rome the government with Rome the current seat of the Catholic church. I think we were still in hiding and hoping not to be the entertainment at the colliseumin 69-70AD.

LOL lonereb!! You've got a great sense of humor. I think, however, that my references were all to 'ROME,' the ancient nation, and not to the present "government" in Rome, Italy. The Vatican, a small independent nation, is the present "seat of the Catholic Church."

Gee a church that has been in existence for 2000 years has a lot of records. Duh want to see how many a country that has been in existence a liitle more than 200 years has? Got a lot of access to that do you? Bet you can't even find the current subject of controversy online. The GPO has taken the healthcare bill off it's online site. I wrote my senator about that she doesn't know where to find it either and basically said please don't blame me I didn't vote for it.

Much can be learned through history.

Galileo’s experiences should act as a reminder to others today that those that deny scientific evidence, perhaps do so to push an agenda. History saw Galileo’s work and honor vindicated but in his lifetime he paid dearly for it. Today his work and contributions to the various fields of science are esteemed, rightfully so.

That's what happens when science and religion meet face to face; science loses by way of torture and ridicule via 'faith.'

And when science becomes the religion of the people scientists act no differently. You are human too.You ridicule anyone who won't believe your way and try to force anyone that doesn't accept your belief into supporting actions based on them through taxes and government requirements. So when I refuse to go along with it I will end up in jail (fairly soon I imagine). But you cannot see that your behavior isn't any different.

Who are you to say that the HRCC needs to turn this over? Dictatorship of moral relativist!

No Stupid, no one cares about your Grandmom's "stuff"!

Read the post Vic....I said the World Court....NOT ME!Are you related to stupid?

the world's largest collection of fine art for one, one of the world's largest cashes of gold for another. or at least that's what I've been told by my catholic friends...

A World Court is exactly what Obama would like...You are a fool if you want that...The Catholic Church has Secrets of Millennia ordered and protected from people just like you, TVAR...Your disrespect is astonishing.

Brokeincolorado.....I'm glad your impressed!

It's very likely that there's evidence of horrible crimes in these archives, that's why they're picky about what they release...y'know what CYA means, right? There's been speculation about why the Church helped the French murder the Templars(the reason why Friday the 13th is considered unlucky), what part the Vatican had in instigating some of the crusades, real evidence that "Holy Mother Church" told the nobility to prohibit their serfs' consumption of meat(less likely to revolt if weak from malnutrition)...the list goes on and on, not to mention the pediphilea and the Mother Teresa sainthood scam Christopher Hitchens wrote about.

I'm willing to bet that the worst, most horribly shocking evidence of misdeeds was destroyed long ago and may not even be remembered now, because knowledge of such crimes might make the nations of the world band together and exterminate the Churches' hierarchy just on general principles so they won't do something so bad again.

Also, Never forget that the Catholic church wishes very much to regain the preeminence it held 15 centuries ago, before Islam(essentially a reaction to Catholicism) and the Protestant Reformation; they were one of the most powerful bureaucracies on the planet and they have never forgotten.

At the end of the famous Vatican II Council the Pope invited "all the brother followers of Jesus Christ" back into the arms of "Mother Church" and protestant preachers(most famously Billy Graham, newly rich with Televangelism money) more or less politely declined - then the Pope wished for all present, "Peace on you" which, in his heavily Italian-accented English sounded a lot like "Piss on you"...

This exhibit is a disrespectful tease, a pittance, a mere taste of what another correctly described as a treasure trove belonging to the entire Human Race, not just the Vatican church.

It's said that a church is not a building, but the family of people in it...I have no problems with Catholics mostly, the church mostly consists of good people with high standards of behavior; but the Vatican bureaucracy is different - it's the longest continuously-operational criminal enterprise in history and everyone should open their minds and open their eyes.

Well my family has been Catholic for more than a thousand years. So who knows what is in there that might refer to my family in 1200AD. Maybe I trust them more than I do you.

Dave of Old....not often, but every once in a while we get to read a post from someone who knows what they're talking about..The Catholic church was indeed responsible for the outrageous slaughter of the Knights Templar. These men were and forever more be closely associated with the Free Masons. The story of that era requires more space & time than this page allows.

There's a translation issue that's compounding a practical issue: the Vatican Secret Archives are not 'the CIA is keeping a secret' secret, it's an old title that has connotations of "the Vatican Private Archives" like our Presidential Libraries. And many of the documents there are OLD, and fragile. Try asking the Library of Congress, or even your local University library for unlimited access to their Restricted/Fragile Document sections. They'll say closely scrutinized researchers and scholars only just as fast.

And gee how many of you speak and read Latin and Greek? You do realise the church still requires all bible translations begin with the original latin, greek and aramaic. You all speak those? Not to mention what isn;t in Latin is probably in 15th century itallian.

I don't think the public has the impression that these are the total holdings of the catholic church. Nobody is being deceived. And even if the public IS being deceived, there is no law against deceiving per se. Kind of like how McDonalds deceives the public into thinking their food is good.

Yeah, nobody of intelligence sees anything more than a PR stunt.

Well actually the secret archives are available to scholars with permission of the Vatican librarian or the pope. No they don't let everybody in. And few if any of you could read much of it anyway even for itallians reading the trial of Gallileo is like us reading Beowulf in the original old english. And worse much of it is in Latin a language that almost flunked me out of HS.

Tell me more about "we r ancient aliens". You might be on track with something!

wow lay off the pipe man!

If Tom Hanks couldn't destroy the archives & doubt if fire could

Edward....what atrocities upon the protestants by the Catholic Church? Catholics werent even ALLOWED to OWN property in the northern United States when they first came over here. Who did WHO wrong. And by the way, Protestants base their ENTIRE faith on the Bible. That Bible is the SAME bible put together and PRESERVED by the Catholic Church for 2000 years(minus the books Martin Luther removed so that it would still support his CHANGED doctrine). So...that means......you base your ENTIRE faith on a CATHOLIC document...preserved as being the TRUTH, by the AUTHORITY of the Catholic Church.

Who says they haven't burned the really bad stuff already?

CJ - Blacks also weren't allowed to own property - the American Indians were put on reservations - the Japanese Americans had their possessions taken from them and put in camps - what is your point ? Only Catholics suffered injustices?

How about Pope Pious X11 - giving refuge to Nazi Criminals and helping them escape to Argentina - a pact made with the devil - just don't bomb the Vatican and we will protect you

CJ

Read "Fox book of Martyrs"

I doubt it the Church like any government has never heard of spring cleaning or sunshine laws. If everything in your requirements involves having to translate everything from the original you don't get rid of the original. Anyway those records came in real handy for 400 some Jews during the Nazi era. The papal nuncio used them to force Portugal to issue passports to them based on the fact their ancestors were Portuguese during the Inquisition and were forcibly baptized Catholic by the government of Portugal. He later became Pope John XXIII.

So sorry for you! wabbit lol!

I think history says they used their finger. REALLY!

Actually they left because of problems within the Church of England over many of the same problems we see today over separation of Church & State & utter desperation.... It divided the church

It was the principle reasons over one hundred years later our founders created a "Secular" Constitution

Christians persecuted Christians in many countries throughout the Reconstruction for several hundred years

Religious persecution our ancestors ironically brought with them in great abundance

The Puritans didn't flee the Catholic church in europe. At that time in history it wasn't the government's religion.

Jonny,,, Puritans came directly from the Church of England. That was their government

The church appointed governors & lords over the colonists. One of those founded Providence RI in 1635 to get away from strict control & persecution from Calvinist leaders

Actually, the Pilgrims (assuming that's who you mean by Puritans) left England to escape persecution by the Anglican church there, and left Holland later to escape religious freedom.

Jim, the guy who founded Providence, RI was a Baptist named Roger Williams.

President Obama is about to find out what it'll feels like to be a sure loser for offending a huge voter base that helped to get him in office. The comments on thread alone from Liberals against the Church should solidify and confirm the Catholic Church's resolve to get him out before he fully transforms into Beelzebub with mindless minions attacking targeted religious groups.

I'm not a Catholic or a supporter of this Church but have to acknowledge the huge mistake he's made in attempting to gamble on the contraception issue offending millions of Catholics and other Christian groups. Bad policy and political move that will follow him all the way to the polls. President Obama is what he is and the truth has been revealed as such. All politics and very little sincerity with lots of political self gain obviously.

As a procalimed Christian, Obama is in direct conflict with his own "Christian beliefs" assuming that he really is one and is somehow never questioned by the media on it. Go figure.

Excuse me have any of you read any history books? The church in England left the Catholic church during the reign of HenryVIII. Get with it people blame us for what we did not for what others did. And you wonder why we don't take you seriously?

You are alone and a minority in your opinion so "we" is figment of your imagination and so are your lonely thoughts. There are no more comments after yours to support you.

Tad, lonereb has a valid point. His historical reference is correct. And many of the blogs are simply...nothing. No opinion based on facts or reason.

But I have to agree that Obama stepped in it (again) where religious beliefs and practices in our country are concerned.

Contraception wasn't an issue... until the republicans made it one.

Never in the past has any conservative, right-wing, or republican refutiated this in the past. All of a sudden, it has become an issue because, you guessed it, a black democrat becomes president.

Just like the DREAM Act, HC mandate, and dozens of other policies the republicans were for and even invented, they now oppose, simply because a democrat agrees with it.

The president didn't "step in it", the republicans threw it in front of him.

Knowledge (Vatican archives) equals power and power (the vatican/papacy) equals control

Have any of you actually been to the Vatican - I have - when you walk in there is a bank of telephones - I thought it was "Dial a Sin" you pay for everything , it's a business and always has been

One tip great pub around the corner to escape from all that holiness

Comparison - walking into the Vatican I felt nothing - going to Canterbury - you feel like you're on holy ground

Interesting since I was raised a Catholic

Maybe you felt hoiness in Canterbury because that is where a priest was martyred for standing against the king of England.