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Subscribe to RSSViolence and bloodshed is turning the "Arab Spring" into winter, the head of Lebanon's Maronite Church said, threatening Christians and Muslims alike across the Middle East.
Patriarch Beshara al-Rai, whose Maronite Church also has a strong presence in Syria, said change could not be brought to the Arab world by force and that Christians feared the turmoil was helping extremist Muslim groups.
"We are with the Arab Spring but we are not with this spring of violence, war, destruction and killing. This is turning to winter," Rai told Reuters in Bkirki, seat of the Maronite church in hills overlooking the Mediterranean Sea north of Beirut.
The upheaval sweeping through the Arab world, toppling four veteran leaders, gave voice to millions of people who suffered decades of repression. But it also brought conflict in Libya and has tipped Syria towards civil war.
"We say that we cannot implement reforms by force and arms. No one can guess the scale of the great losses and damage which could result," said Rai, speaking this week in an ornately decorated reception room in the patriarchate in Bkirki.
Unlike the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 which overthrew Saddam Hussein, the Arab uprisings started as largely grassroot protests against entrenched leaderships.
But Rai, who attended a memorial service in Iraq last year for Christians killed in an attack on a Baghdad church, drew a parallel between Iraq and the rest of the Arab world, saying Christians could bear a disproportionate share of the suffering.
"How can it be an Arab Spring when people are being killed every day?" he said. "They speak of Iraq and democracy, and one million Christians out of an original 1.5 million have fled Iraq."
The patriarch said all communities in the Middle East were threatened by "war and violence, economic and security crises", but Christians were particularly vulnerable because of their relatively small and dwindling numbers.
Maronites, who have a presence in Lebanon, Syria and Cyprus, follow an Eastern rite of the Roman Catholic church and number about 900,000 in Lebanon, around a quarter of the population.
Lebanon's Maronite leaders have had tense relations with Syria and led calls for an end to its military presence in Lebanon in 2005.
But since protests erupted against President Bashar al-Assad many Christians have been uneasy about supporting the increasingly militarised and mainly Sunni Muslim uprising against his secular Baath Party, which ensured freedom of belief for minority faiths.
The 72-year-old Rai, elected patriarch on the same day in March last year that serious protest first broke out in Damascus against Assad, said Maronites were neither supporting nor opposing the Syrian authorities.
"Syria, like other countries, needs reforms which the people are demanding," he said. "It's true that the Syrian Baath regime is an extreme and dictatorial regime but there are many others like it in the Arab world."
"All regimes in the Arab world have Islam as a state religion, except for Syria. It stands out for not saying it is an Islamic state ... The closest thing to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria."
"We are not defending it. But we regret that Syria, which wants to take a step forward ... is undergoing this violence and destruction and (use of) power and weapons."
The United Nations says more than 7,500 people have been killed in the uprising and puts the blame for the bloodshed mainly on Assad's government, saying it has reports of summary executions, imprisonment and torture by authorities.
More from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Violence turning Arab Spring into winter, church warns
- 'Opportunity for democracy': Rebel Chinese village votes
- Report: 5 soldiers involved in Quran burning
- Rival hard-liners face off as Iranians vote
Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
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THE END IS NEAR if these two countries go to war it is proclaimed. i hope and pray this does not happen, with the nukes in the hands of the Iranian government they will use them and then a 3rd world will happen. IN MY OPINION.
I don't think so. The developed world has seen the consequences of widespread conflict and is more likely to limit the damage to select countries, like the Korean and Vietnam wars. The ME may get trashed, but I don't think the US, Europe, Russia, or China will suffer direct attacks, at least not from each other. The retaliation would be too costly just to support two crappy countries like Iran and Syria.
And Iran knows better than to use nuclear weapons openly. It would be the end of them. Passing dirty bombs onto Hezbollah though....
Whoopty doo. As long as these morons are going to continue trying to control the world because of their religions, I say let them kill each other off.
Keep America out of it.
Christians living in the Mid East is akin to the water bufffalo living among the crocodiles. Most days you will drink(shop,worship) worry free, but the croc(islamist) is always waiting just below the surface for his opportunity to attack.
Chrtistians have been harrased to the point in all ME countries they have no choice but to leave, for any chance at a normal life, free of daily fear and prejudice. The problem is that the moderates never jump in to protect Christian rights in the ME, at least no more than a veiled attempt so they(religous leaders) will not be branded as hypocrites, as we all know it is much to late for that.
They live by live and let die in the ME. We live by live and let live here in America.
The whole ME seems to be one big doublestandard when it comes to religion.
AG99
I agree with you. The larger danger of Iran having nukes, if Israel or the US doesn't destroy them, is that they hand them off to Hezbollah, Hamas, an Al Qaida franchise in Yemen or Somalia, or what ever terrorist group they wish to carry out their nefarious desires. While Iranian leadership (not the reformers, liberal Green Party) has little regard for life, they still fear for their own lives.
I am disappointed in the quiet elections in Iran that the Green party had no say. These reformers need to get off the a$$es and have their own Arab Spring (even though they are not Arabs) and get rid of the Clerics. It looks as though Ahmadinijad is gone but that is because he disagreed with the clerics.
Arab-Spring? What an idiotic phrase! Revolution and internal wars have nothing to do with a "Spring" of anything.
No matter which side wins in any of these local conflicts, there will be more idiocy from the next gang in power. Islam is not peaceful and never was. It is a religion of bigots and disrespecting insecure little bearded bastards that are afraid of women and any open dialog and progress.
Let's just make sure we, the US, stay away from their little spats and when the internal killing is over perhaps they realize it is time to work in order to re-build after the nonsense "Arab-Spring" destroyed everything.
Christians, you better support and protect Jews. As soon as Jews are finished off, it's your turn.
You are simply retarded. Put on your soft helmet and get back on the short bus. Don't forget your Retards Guide to the Universe, er.. uh... I mean Bible!
Obama seems to be supporting rebellions against the leaders of many nations in the middle east, which seem to have a lot of rather unpleasant outcomes - including takeovers by hard-line Islamic extremists that feel no compunction against killing Christians in their countries - as evident by Egypt's treatment of Coptic Christians.
Obama's foreign policies have become a dismal failure, as has his handling of our economy.
And bush did a better job with the economy? Have some more Kool-aid teatard.
John ... whatever, I am amazed at the stupidity and arrogance of some hard core leftist. You are repeating all the nonsense fed to you by MSM without even trying to sort out what is real and what is not.
The real thing is that Christians in the Arab World are the front line who are feeling the brunt of the all out attack by the radical Muslims. Similar to the Jews in Germany, Austria and Poland in pre-WWII Europe they are going through hell trying to survive, while you wise guys in the West are busy with your petty war against conservatives in America.
The sad fact is that those Islamist are already moving to your neighborhood, and before you know it you maybe the one who will be happy to drink his Kool aid to escape their world.
Let the Muslims have their Arab Spring or winter whatever they like instead of taking sides and jumping into Syria and Iran wars as directed by Saudis, oil companies and lobbyists.
Scare mongers did similar jobs in Iraq on WMD. Did Bush, jr and his whole battalions of people get any WMDs?
"All regimes in the Arab world have Islam as a state religion..."
Hmmm....Anybody think that's just a "coincidence"?
Coptic Christard. Your ignorance is astounding. I was commenting on the dipstck above's comment on the economy, not the condition of christians in the middle east. As for christians being persecuted, it sucks. but do we not do the same thing to muslims in their own homeland and ours? As for your claim about militant islamists moving in to our neighborhoods, prove it. Not with some moronic WND article or breitfart blog, but with something that you teatards don't usually even bother with, evidence.
Not many in the history sold a nation and people as cheaply to Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists as George Bush Sr, and Jr did!
Their Iraqi wars brought only miseries to the people and disgrace and hatreds of Americans.
John ... whatever. You are making my point:
The discussion is about Christians persecuted in the Arab World, and you get off track by attacking conservative in America.
You claim that we do the same things to Muslims, can you tell me where are those Christian fanatics who are killing Muslims. Today, the only place where Christians are responding by attacking Muslims is Nigeria, and the Christian leaders stated it clearly "that they are tired of turning the other cheek"
And if you want to find what Islamist will do when they move to your neighborhood, check Dearborn, MI and Brooklyn, NY.
"Arab Spring"...the media along with Obama administration bought the move as "democratic". Now we see the feet behind the curtain: Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a., Taliban)
Just look at how democratic all the 'Arab Spring' movements are: killing Christians.
Our foreign policy as absurd under both Obama and yes, George W. Bush.
Dude, if you do not know the difference between the Taliban and Muslim Brotherhood, don't talk about it!! Try watching the "Power of Nightmares", a BBC documentary. Its on YouTube. And it is not Muslims killing Christians. It is Muslims and Christians killing EACH OTHER. The same thing that has been happening for 1500 years.
But Carlo...you don't understand!
It's now politically correct to consider opinion "informed" by ignorance just as valid as opinion informed by the hard work required to gain actual knowledge of a topic.
Just ask any talking head on the Right....like Limbaugh.
You lefts sure are forgiving when it's camel kissers killing christians.
Hey Rusty Delusions, everybody so far has been level headed in their ascertains, we have been discussing "them" not "us". Please stay on topic and not turn this into a finger pointing brawl, huh? Thank you.
@ carlo;
You are seriously kidding yourself, it is not the same thing. Christian numbers have dwindled by the thousands in the ME for years now. Christians protect themselves more than attack in the ME. Christians make up less than 10% of the population in most ME countries with the exception of Lebanon. How much attacking do you reallly think they are doing at those numbers?
They face persecution daily in the ME, and believe me the same rules do not apply to them as they do the Muslims,as far as the "law" is concerned. To compare todays Christian and Muslim strife to the last 1500 years is ignorant, and biased,you sir ned too know what your talking about before you say it. Now deny what I have said and I will shower you with examples of many more attacks by Muslims on Christians in the past ten years, than the other way around.
The ME community are one big double standard. Here now go educate yourself.
http://www.meforum.org/3138/muslim-persecution-of-christians-november-2011
i agree with you 100%
thanks to Mr president Obama of supporting Muslim brother hood with the name of democracy and got us the Arabic middle east dark winter, i hope all the Christians wake up and support each other to stop that evil it calls muslim brotherhood
George Bush, Sr and Jr were worst in the history!
"All regimes in the Arab world have Islam as a state religion, except for Syria. It stands out for not saying it is an Islamic state ... The closest thing to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria."
If anyone still supports Sunni beastly and bigoted Saudi and Arab League beasts and intervenes, it is another worst chapter as in Iraq.
It includes Hillary, Obama, Bidens and others too.
Reuters and MSNBC are just now pretending that they didn't know this. Since your promotion of the "Arab spring" there has been a sharp escalation in the Arab burning of Churches, in the Arab slaughter of Christians, in the ethnic cleansing of all non-Arabs from Arab/ Moslem dominated countries.
you are totally out of touch. the muslim always and will always try to eradicate the christians. we have them in the uk....living and protected by our hard payed taxes, who claim to have fled their homes cos of persecution. but once you get to know them, they start blaiming britain and America for every problem in the islamic world. if I had a chance I will get rid of all muslims for our children to live in the world peacefully and deport all to where the came from. Period.
Here JOHNNIE is more right and realistic!
Don't permit a single Muslim in a non-Muslim nation and they are a liability and curse on the society and nation.
Let them run without looking back to their Muslim nations.
Bands of violent young disenfranchised males seeking power over others? When did they start that shlt?
This problem is spreading through out Europe and someday will happen here in the good old US of A if we don't put a stop to this now.
Beginning November 6, 2012!
Nope, we have something no other country nhas.
The 2nd Amendment and castle laws, that is the first thing the leftys always want to do is take the weapons.
The camel kissers strt that here, we'll bury them with other garbage.
Everyone check out diana-1091347. Christians and Muslims put their leaders in power and those leaders, who believe in this "prophecy" nonsense and drag the rest of humanity down with them.
Lets get some things straight. First of all? Christians and Muslims: "God" did NOT give YOU the Earth to play with. It is NOT your personal toy-it belongs to ALL of us!!! You people have been fighting over those books for 1500 years, BILLIONS have been killed, entire civilizations have been wiped out because of your insanity. STOP IT!!!!
Second, if regional war does break out it will not "destroy the world". It will not even destroy mankind. All your gonna do is what you ALWAYS do. Throw a war that God doesn't show up to. While nukes will probably be used, it STILL will not destroy the world because it will be local. What will happen is that hundreds of thousands of people will die, huge tracks of land will be destroyed and you people will STILL be arguing about a freaking BOOK:
I have a suggestion. We can take all Christians and Muslims and put them in Australia. Clear out the normal, sane people, and surround the Continent with a navel task force. Then give them all the guns and bombs that they want and let them sort it all out. They WILL NOT stop fighting, people. They both claim to have marching orders from the Creator of the Universe. They BELIEVE this!!!
This is NOT a "cultural" war. This is a RELIGIOUS WAR and it is being fought by just TWO religions, with a third, Judaism, urging them on. NO other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Native American, goes to war over religion. NONE. Just these three. They are the crack, heroin and Crystal Meth of religions. Oh, but they have so many "charities!!!! Really? Ever tried to get something from a Christian organization that did not require you to listen to their preaching? It is not possible for them to give ANYTHING for free. Its a propaganda tool. Always has been, always WILL be. READ their books!!! Converting "pagans" and "infidels" to each sects beliefs, so as to provide fresh soldiers, is a primary command.
I think it was Jesus who said, "...by their DEEDS shall ye know them". Dammit, LOOK at what they DO!!!
I halfway disagree - religion is the vehicle by which some of these conflicts occur, but power is the motivator. The Assad regime is secular and has been for decades. They're fighting to stay in charge and keep their privileges, and perhaps now because they realize that to lose is to die. That religion is so easily used by governments of all stripes to justify otherwise irrational policy is a universal truth of all human groups. In the absence of religion, other ironclad claims to the truth are substituted (as in the case of Nazism, which espoused a belief in an absolute genetic truth, or communism, which believed in an absolute economic truth). All of them are based on a powerful elite without checks and balances justifying their own existence.
Why does America work? Not because we're secular; or because of our culture; and certainly not because of our liberal gun laws. It's because our elites routinely remove one another from power, peacefully, regularly, like clockwork, and have legal mechanisms to do so. They therefore have less incentive to use an absolute truth to force themselves upwards - because to do so is high risk and exposes them to failure, causing another elite to take their place.
Oh, really? Ever hear of what the Japs did to the Buddhists in Chiina during WWII? Your high school level debate is full of holes.
Do you mean like the 350 families a week that local churches feed, here.
They walk in the door , hold their handouts and get free food, all they hear is good luck.
I don't have much in the way of religion, people like you however are as extreme as any zealot and as full of crap.
Hindus and Muslims have been fighting for centuries in India over Religion.
Carlo, you don't know what you are talking about, Christians in almost every Arab Country have been slaughtered by Islamist since the 1970's. The only country where Christians fought was Lebanon in the 1970, because Lebanon used to be the only majority Christian country in the Arab World. Sadly this is not true anymore. So stop spreading lies.
For those who do not believe the bible, or those who need more insight, try reading Genesis chapter 16,
and pay attention to verses 11. and 12.
Truer words never spoken, I had always remembered that Ishmael was the father of the muslims but, I had forgotten about the wild man part. Thanx for the update / lesson.
So Arabs are descendants of a bastard. That much was known for centuries.
I had hoped for better- but what they had was even worse.
I still think there's at least some chance for real progress- a chance that didn't exist at all under the repressive regimes removed by popular uprisings.
Bottom line: this episode has been educational for quite a few little tin gods- some of whom were melted down and recast as public urinals..
While I do not condone the killing of innocents in Syria I do understand that the folks supporting Aasad are fighting for their very existence. This is the only country in the region that does not have Islam as the official State religion. If the Sunni Muslims take over the Alawites, the only intelligent and sophisticated people in the country will be slaughtered and the country will become like most of the other countries in the region, and Islamic mullah dominated country that will quickly head into financial and cultural morass that will become another Somailia like area. This is when is in store when you provide the means to overthrow one type of dictator for one that wears robes of Islam.
The article says one million of 1.5 million Christians have fled. That pretty much says it all for the religion of tolerance and peace.
Time to wake up people:
http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/warning-about-islam-draws-blast-from-muslims/
Spread the word.
I am getting real tired of saying it. So I will not say Islam = Pig S()t but I will say this. Sniff, sniff, sniff. What is that smell?
Way too much hate in this thread for me. Yes, Assad is totaliarian. But then again, Queen Elizathbeth can disovle Parliament at will and call for new elections. That's totalitarian. Are they on equal footing? No. That said, at least Syria, and in so many words, Assad, at least calls for freedom of religion. Islam is not Pig Crap. And no, I'm not a Muslim. As with Christianity it wants to change all non-believers into its' way of thinking. As does Christianity. When you praise the Crusaders, remember they killed more Christias, simply because they dresed the same way as the 'Infidels'.
Remember that Religion is the Opium of the Masses.
The difference is you're talking Christians a thousand years ago vs muslims NOW . That is a HUGE difference.The Crusader Christians who are long dead are no threat to anyone , whereas your muslim friends are and with much more potent weaponry .
Yes. Thanks for the warning. It is true. Hope that they will see each other as human beings and to have the same right like them to exercise their religious rights and beliefs and practices. Respect each other, please.
"But Rai, who attended a memorial service in Iraq last year for Christians killed in an attack on a Baghdad church, drew a parallel between Iraq and the rest of the Arab world, saying Christians could bear a disproportionate share of the suffering."
Instead of acting like George Bush, Sr and Jr, at least listen to what a Christian has to say right in the middle of killing fields.
If at least one can't contribute much, please don't bring body bags, huge war expenses and run with huge forces to cover as in Iraq!
Can there be more disgraceful ways to fight wars? Some even don't know how to fight wars in Muslim nations!
Better leave them alone for a change instead of acting as cheap paid agents of the Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists!
It is appropriate to use outside military force to counter the internal oppressive use of military power, especially when thousands of innocent civilians seeking freedom and democracy are being maimed and murderously slain. The failure of the Free World to do this would be completely unconscionable. - RC
I guess I am never going to get it across to you all, that virtually every time there is a record of either God or the angels of God interacting with people in these Old Testament and New Testament religious books, this was really a record of ETs interacting with mankind. These ETs repeatedly masqueraded as either Divinity or the representatives of Divinity (so called "angels of God") over a period of several thousand Earth years, in the process of installing all three of these dangerous Abrahamic religions (Human Software Viruses or HSVs) into our world. These ETs are hoping to use these dangerous viral religions to crash and explode our emerging human world in a final programmed cataclysm of global warfare fueled with WMDs, known as the Christian Apocalypse or World War III, because these ETs want to use their eminent domain rights of military intervention in our sector of the Milky Way galaxy, to move in on our world militarily and take it over, with the intent of one day taking it completely away. These dangerous viral religions are now effectively airborne viruses, thanks to the advent of modern day communications technology. These offensive totalitarian ETs were forced to take this covert approach at territorial conquest in our Milky Way galaxy, because there are Free Galaxy powers which reside elsewhere in our Milky Way galaxy, who currently stand in the way of overt military conquest on a stellar level. Mankind potentially has countless millions (even billions) of years of growth, development and expansion ahead of them, so long as they don't fall for these ET installed terminal religious belief systems known as the Abrahamic religions. This is the real "Gospel" or "Good News" people! Please listen before it is too late! - Rick Carter