... the increasingly tight embrace of the Jewish state by both the leadership of American evangelical churches and organizations....

Why bother to embrace a Jewish state that can't, and won't, reciprocate the embrace?

The article wrote:

[...] the Rapture can't happen if there is no Jewish state in the Holy Land.

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate.

Mental wounds not healing
Life's a bitter shame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train.

All aboard! Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaa!

ROFL!!! Says the books written by the JEWS!!!!

I feel sorry for our evangelicals! They are basically good hearted people. But they are used by their ministers as fodder for the Repubs (who praise the evans for their vote then do a reach around and steal the food off their table). Then the Israelis come along and the same guys on the pulpit serve them up on a platter to these people who look at them as sheep to be sheared. The evangelicals are the butt of jokes in Israel. If there is a heaven where the evangelicals go then there will be an angry mob waiting for these darlings of the pulpit so they can toss them into hell because the first thing god will reveal to them is how much their trust was misplaced.

Re@son@ble in MD wrote:

but don't hold it against anyone who needs to believe in somthing in order to give their lives some worth.

People should learn to believe in themselves. So few do, though. Instead, many are taught from a young age that they have little value, and that answers will only come from imaginary entities in a book.

Look at anyone who truly believes in him or herself, and you'll see someone who has a life very much worth living.

I have to agree with you. To me, the only reason there are Christians doing this is because they think it'll bring their version of the Messiah which, by the way, is a very minor concept in Judaism (except for the Sephardic Jews and the Chasidic Jews). They have to show that they care about the Jews in Israel, although they'd prefer that it be their country with their version of the messiah.

These Christians still work to convert Jews to their version of Christianity, though they don't show it as much in Israel lest they be told to leave.

Dr. Cat wrote:

So few do, though. Instead, many are taught from a young age that they have little value, and that answers will only come from imaginary entities in a book.

Very true. I think it takes willpower to break those mental chains once they are in place. Growing up I was chastised for questioning things in the Bible. You're expected to just believe without question. And the interpretation of the Bible can vary so widely from church to church. In the end I found no reason for myself to be subservient to a person with an old book telling me how to live my life.

If the basis of an alliance is fear (of Islam) rather than love and mutual respect/tolerance; what good it will be?

Irene you are so true. They are warmongers and hypocrites. Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

I find it funny that the article doesn't further eleborate on the fact that in the evangelicals belief of the rapture a certain number of Jews will be converted while the rest are killed as the enemies of God. I mean doesn't anyone think it odd that Israel would openly embrace this support. Essentialy what the evangelicals are saying is "lets support Israel and the Jews, so that Jesus can return to earth and kill all of those Jews." Yet these are the same people calling Muslims immoral. I also never knew that Jesus supported the occupation and theft of another people's land along with their oppression, humiliation, and killing, but then again I was always taught to believe that he was a loving, compassionate, and forgiving God. Maybe he can have some compassion and forgive the misguided support of these Christian Zionist

Well Rush....that is the whole idea. For over 60 years the evangelicals have been doing what they can to trigger Armageddon. They revel in the idea that billions of people will die and leave them (evangelicals) in control of the world. Nothing meek about these bible thumpers. For the past 40 years or so they have been grooming Israel and the US for the great war. At the same time they have been helping the Muslims obtain and develop weapons, create theocracies throughout the middle east and organize terrorist groups. The evangelicals are poised to stage a local or regional conflict that will trigger Armageddon. Very sick stuff but we give them tax free status to carry out their agenda and have allowed evangelicals to take control of the American political system. They are organized, delusional (but support and reinforce the delusion in each other) and want almost everyone on this planed dead so that they can impose their version of sharia law on whoever survives.

Call me cynical, but I believe this "embrace" of Israel by evangelicals is wholly based on the principle that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

@Kornfed - Maybe its just me but from the comment you quoted Im having a hard time figuring out who the enemy is that's holding a higher place in my liberal heart? You know Kornfed if you didn't already have your lobotomy it would be very clear to you that our fellow Americans are more than capable of being our worst enemies. Those that would sow the destruction of America are our enemies whether foreign or domestic. Just remember if our country is destroyed it will come from within "I have seen the enemy and he is us"

@Chris-5thape

"This is the land which faces the entrance of the spiritual world, that sphere of existence that lies beyond the physical world known to us through our senses."

The words of a delusional human. What hogwash. Religion - a virus on the mind.

Not a virus-- a hard-wired predisposition:

Why we are born to believe in God: It's wired into the brain, says psychologist

The religious/spiritual among us will tell you that that hard-wired, neuro-chemical response/activity is evidence for the hand of God in the design of our brain; the scientific/rationalists among us will tell you that that same brain activity is evidence for our perception of "divine" experience independent of any truly supernatural phenomenon. Both parties can say "See, I told you so," but neither has any real leverage over the other. In any case, a virus of the mind? Not hardly. Spiritual/religious responses within the mind are a sign of healthy brain activity, regardless of your opinions on the specifics of any given religion.

all that is required to go to Heaven is to truly believe in God and to know that Jesus (the son of God) died on the Cross for forgiveness of our sins.

there are no requirements to get into hell. all that is required to go to hell is not to believe in God.

if i am wrong i live a good life based on biblical principals and being kind to my fellow man.

if you are wrong you condemn your soul to hell for eternity. simply not believing does not exempt you from going to hell.

May God bless Israel and deliver them from the hand of the enemy.

@Kornfed - Maybe its just me but from the comment you quoted Im having a hard time figuring out who the enemy is that's holding a higher place in my liberal heart? You know Kornfed if you didn't already have your lobotomy it would be very clear to you that our fellow Americans are more than capable of being our worst enemies

Take it in the context of this article. If you still have a hard time figuring it out, I will try and help you with it later, when I am back from work.

David Walker you are hilarious! Nice synopsis of the whole situation.

Personally I think they are all going to hell. Why? Because they have subverted the intended point of worshipping God as a way to come to a higher place as a human...loving, compassionate and caring. Instead, they preach hate, misogyny and use their followers to further their own selfish agendas.

Honest Jo "most people traveled no more than a few miles from where they were born."

well, technically that might be accurate - but reality is that MANY people travelled hundreds of thousands of miles...

there was even then a thriving trade business with china...which is quite the foot hike.

Even jesus himself wandered the middle east - ending up near tibet at some point.

To believe that people didnt wander, learn and meet new people is ignorant at best.

clearly you dont remember high school history class very well.

God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

It's election time people, Evangelicals would embrace the devil himself if they thought it could put one of their own in the presidency. These people have no morals, ethics or standards, they will lie, cheat, steal, rig elections, whatever it takes to beat the "demons" that they think control the democrats. They are clinically insane, I guarantee if you sat these wingnuts down on a psychiatrists couch he would say each one was mentally ill. If anyone else other than Christians claim to hear voices in their head they are put in an insane asylum, but since these freaks claim it is "God"s" voice they hear they get to run around screwing the world up for the rest of us. What a messed up civilization we have created, where the most insane, evil people on the planet (Christians/Jews/Muslims) have controlled the whole shooting match for 1700 years. I'm just amazed we've even made it this far with wingnuts ruling the world. The have set us back thousands of year in evolution, in fact under their rule we are actually DEVOLVING.

This whole article is hilarious, with people arguing over who has the best imaginary friend and whose fairy tale is the most true! It's like fighting over the North Pole because Santa lives there...

"Religion...is for the weak minded of our society: Those who are unable to utilize common sense or reason. Those that need to told how to think and what to think. Those who need to be guided through life because they are too stupid to do it themselves. Pitiful."

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Think about it and stop being common sheep.

For discussions with the brightest people you'll ever meet, join a Meetup.com humanist/atheist group in your area and let go of the make-believe ideas of heaven & hell, greedy religious leaders, fairies/angels/devils, afterlife, "rapture," and all other such nonsense.

Well, as a Jewish woman, I truly believe if the Israeli's think the American Taliban are their "friends", they are just as delusional as the American Taliban.

I really, really wish that if the American Taliban are so anxious to meet their Messiah, that they would drum up the courage to just Rapture themselves ... now. But, the American Taliban are nothing more than ignorant and hypocritical cowards who lack the courage of their convictions. But, one can still dream ...

Jess, maybe some of us didn't go to christian schools, let alone read the bible. I don't think all schools use the same History books or teach History , maybe Social Studies and Civics.

In fact Geography is gone from the curriculum in a lot of schools.

That's pretty much it. They support Israel because they want all the Jews in one place so they can be SLAUGHTERED and bring Mr. Jesus back.

I think someone should do a case study on resiliency levels of agnostics/athieists, in comparison to resiliency levels in devout followers of religions. My hypothesis is that those who face the uncertainty of athieism/agnoticism show much higher levels of resiliency to the external stimuli of life.

That was my first of many nerd moments today, I'm sure.

Anyhoo, this is the problem I have with Israel and those that are currently supporting them. I'M SICK OF WAR. I've already watched three men I care about get shipped over there again, and again, and again, and again. No one wants a nuclear Iran, but what ever happened to mutually assured distruction? Why do we believe that Iran's first action as a nuclear state would be to ensure their own complete destruction?

Stubborn. Stubborn is the word that most comes to mind. Old, stubborn, religious people. I guarentee you, if there is a heaven, and if these dudes really existed and are who they claimed to be, Muhammed, Jesus, and Moses are probably drinking beers together and shaking their damn heads at the assisnine sh** we do in their names.

Close your freaking Bibles and talk to each other, already. Please. If not for yourselves, than for the generations that get to clean up the mess you've spent 2000+ years making.

• This is what I expect to hear from Santorum:
• "I have prayed on it and God told me to attack Iran to help Israel"
• No Christian Taliban!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think someone should do a case study on resiliency levels of agnostics/athieists, in comparison to resiliency levels in devout followers of religions. My hypothesis is that those who face the uncertainty of athieism/agnoticism show much higher levels of resiliency to the external stimuli of life.

That was my first of many nerd moments today, I'm sure.

Anyhoo, this is the problem I have with Israel and those that are currently supporting them. I'M SICK OF WAR. I've already watched three men I care about get shipped over there again, and again, and again, and again. No onewants a nuclear Iran, but what ever happened to mutually assured distruction? Why do we believe that Iran's first action as a nuclear state would be to ensure their own complete destruction?

See, that's just it, Sarah. I think you're dead on here!

Me personally? I for one have NO PROBLEM with people of different religions (i.e. the Christians and the Israeli Jews) supporting each other and forming alliances. In fact, I see it as a GOOD thing. Where I have a beef is where one group tries to actively prosthelize and convert (read: hammer) the other into their own way of thinking. And where it gets more dangerous is now it's at the point THE REST OF US are being dragged into YET another pointless conflict where we're ALL going to lose. At that point, the FANATICS will take over and destroy the world economy, not to mention the lives of our troops lost in this nonsense.

And we're in enough pointless quagmires as it is.

american evangelical christians embrace israel.

of course, israel embraces them back, as long as they, and every other american, foots the bill for their human rights violations, warmongering refusal to cooperate with any sort of peace brokerage deal.

And I thought Obama is a Christian. You people claim Christians are clueless, yet you vote for one. Looks like you athiest liberals are the clueless ones.

I come from a Palestinian Christian family and there's a number of things about this issue that bothers me a geat deal. First of all, we come from a small village in the West Bank (nearby Ramallah) which is half Christian and half Muslim and we've never had any problems with our Muslim neighboors.

Overall, the relationship between Palestinian Christians and Muslims have been peaceful. I understand perfectly well that some Christians in other Arab countries had some conflicts with the Muslims but that has never been the case in Palestine. No civil wars like Lebanon had and no massacres like it happened recently in Egypt.

If Palestinian Christians are leaving Palestine it's because Israel has made life a hell for us, and also because it's easier to move to Christian countries such as there are in Europe and the Americas where we share the same religious culture.

As far as the Second Coming is concerned, why hasn't it happened yet? Could it be that the pro-Israeli Evangelists have it wrong? After all, when the Bible says the Jews are supposed to return to the "Holy Land" that was written when the Jews were exiled in Babylon. When Babylon began to fall apart the Jews living there went back to the "Holy Land" but the Bible never mentions the Jews will go back there after that. The Romans took control of the area, kicked the Jews out around 70AD and the bible has absolutely nothing to say about that.

Practically speaking Israel controls the entire area. They can go and bomb and kill any Palestinians regardless of where we are. Israel can take all the land they want. Jews from anywhere in the world can go into any Palestinian home and take over it.

So why hasn't the Second Coming happened yet???

The whole thing is so demented and all because the US has a bunch of people who're willing to supply Israel with all the money and the weapons they need to keep the conflict going so Israel can have the chance to take over more of our land and homes.

On the one hand, there are Americans who're trying to recreate their romantic view of Biblical Israel and, on the other hand, American politicians will go along with anything Israel says and wants to do just so they're not deemed "anti-Semtic" and can gain votes when running for poltical office.

If the US really wanted to, if it got serious and honest about it, the Israel-Palestine conflict would be resolved in a matter of days. But as long as the US gives Israel a green light to do anyting to us regardless of what US and international laws say then the conflict will go on and on, and all the while waiting for the Second Coming or for the conflict to somehow resolve itself without any hard work by US leaders.

US evangelicals and politicians who unconditionally support Israel are nothing but a bunch of delusional fools.

"We definitely believe they (U.S. evangelical leaders) are Islamaphobic and that is hindering them from having the right approach toward Islam," said Munther Isaac, an instructor at Bethlehem Bible College who describes himself on his blog as a Palestinian evangelical Christian.

It's not Islamaphobia it's being wary of a group of followers that tend to blow themselves up at the most inopportune times.

I enjoy reading the posts of the ego maniacs on here. They are so damn smart that they have blind faith in their belief that there is no higher power. I wonder what it's like walking around with a head that big? Modern man has cell phone and i-pad technology. We're so much more advanced than what we consider primitive man. Heck we're even smarter than those non-cell phone i-pad having founders who wrote the Constitution. What the comments I've read tell me is there is a lot of growing up that needs to be done if you think faith and spirituality has anything to do with something you consider the equivalent of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. Who are you to define God? You're nothing but a parasitic mite on the ass of the world. Even that is probably giving you too much credit.

Hard to love Muslims when they saw off your head and place it on top of your back for looks.

Hard to love Muslims when they murder so many because their faith commands them to.

Hard to love Muslims when they want to exterminate me because I do not believe in Mohammad.

Hard to love Muslims when they murder Children like the Beslan school massacre.

This can go on all day long how many instances of murder happen daily because of this religion of peace.

Just type Beslan School and look at the images

Just kids and babies

So good to hear from a Palestinian Christian to get some clear perspective. As a follower of Jesus I am much more for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are Arabs or Palestianians than with the violent, grasping antichrist Israeli Zionists. The great Christian scholar and statesman John Stott, who passed last year, said that after years of Biblical studies and thought, he had come to the conclusion that Christ and Zionism are incompatible, and I totally agree with him. Jesus is not a Zionist. Jesus died for and loves all people equally. Jewish Supremacisism (super-racism) is anti-Gospel of Jesus big time. Christians wake up. You are being duped.

Let me help you a little bit on the second coming. Hosea 6 tells it that Jesus will return "after two days" which in biblical language is 2,000 years, so we are almost there. According to the Historical View of Revelation, most of that book has already been fulfilled and Christ's return is very near.

But in the view of the Kingdom of God, there still remains one obstacle that needs to be removed and it is these fake Jews and false Israel. These people are by their own admissions (read Jewish encyclopedias on this) 90% + people from other races besides the original Israel. The descendants of original Israel God has had in hiding and they don't even know it. Read the three judgments and three promises in Hosea 1. They are out there but they are not today's Jews or Israelis. Most of them by now, according to Hosea 1 and Romans 9-11 and I Peter and James are known as "sons of the living God" = Christ-ians.

Isaiah 29:5-6 tells us that today's so called Israel, Ariel Jerusalem, the Old Jerusalem are the enemies of God and He will deal with them before the Kingdom of God comes in. I highly urge all people to get out of Jerusalem and Israel, if you want to save your lives. Unless of course you know God wants you there. Ahithophel and Judas will end up loosing it all unless they stop following the antichrists who are in the role of Absalom and the first century Pharisees.

Funny line from a Jewish scholar regarding the Evangelicals and their fixation with Israel:

Israel is playing a part in a play that we didn't audition for.

That about sums it up.

We CANNOT make US policy based on biblical versus you idiot. We are NOT a christian nation, we are a secular nation that allows for people to practice whatever religion they see fit. Quoting a 2000 year old fairytale to justify war and losing soldiers is sick.

Toasty McGrath

That's pretty much it. They support Israel because they want all the Jews in one place so they can be SLAUGHTERED and bring Mr. Jesus back

You should rejoice Toasty! They will be Slaughtered by the friends you support to end your "Zion Problem"

@BigAL - you should just change your name to Big idiot. Its hard to believe that to really believe all of the things on your post, but take a look at this.

Hard to love Christians when their only goal is to convert everyone and look down on those that refuse

Hard to love Christians when they kill innocent doctors and blow up clinics

Hard to love Christians when they kill over 70 children on an Island in Norway

Hard to love slavery that was condoned by Christians

Hard to love the Salem witch trials, the Inquistion, the Crusades, or the treatment of Native Americans

Hard to love Christians when they me would strip my wife and I of the right to birth control

One last thing the Belsan School Massacre was terrible no question, but you refuse to point out the fact that most of the children were killed by the heavy handed tactics of their Russian rescuers. That incident doesn't represent Islam anymore than Brekvic killing about 90 innocent people in Norway represents Christianity

Jo, Jo, Jo...people didn't just write about what they experienced. People wrote about what they imagined, and about things they heard from other people. Noah didn't personally write about the flood. It is a story passed down through generations. Maybe there's some truth to it.

There are lots of events that get the miraculous treatment, but you know what happens when stories of an event are passed down. At an oasis, someone tells a story about something strange he saw on his travels in the desert. His buddy says yeh, and what was really weird was that the sun broke through the clouds right then or else nobody would have ever noticed this strange thing. End of story. Next morning, everybody at the oasis gets up and continues on their journeys. By the time the story makes it's way from the Sinai to Galilee a month later, you have angels coming out of the clouds, golden trumpets, thunderclaps and God telling this guy to look at this miraculous thing in the desert. That's why I always read the Bible with a good deal of skepticism.

"American evangelicals have it in their DNA: God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curses the Jews," he said. "We want God to bless America and if America doesn't support Israel we don't have his blessing. It doesn't mean Israel is always right, it doesn't mean we don't remonstrate Israel, but we are going to have their back."

Not news to me. I went to high school in Mississippi and remember several teachers bringing up the whole "We should support God's chosen people" deal. I remember one science teacher who would often go on rants about how bad abortion is. She even had the nerve to show us pictures of aborted fetuses during class. Even though she didn't know that late term abortion isn't practiced in Mississippi and there's only one clinic in the whole state.

Bottom line: Southern Baptists are crazy. O_O

God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curses the Jews

Wouldn't those crafty old jews who wrote this be surprised to see how it worked out!

@ Stew

Some of us like myself are not religious and could care less about religion we have more important things on are plate like keeping my family from starving & trying to keep my house for foreclosure.

calling someone a idiot is rude considering everything I posted is true & you immediately think I am of some religious denomination.

If you do not have something nice to say to someone don't say it at all.

BigAl,

Then why do you only disdain Muslims, when every religion, since the dawn of time, has done sh**y things?

Everyone Else,

God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curses the Jews

Why does God need a middle man? Who are we to bless or curse anyone? Why don't we just let God do the blessing/cursing and stay the f*** out of it?

Kevin T wrote...

And I thought Obama is a Christian. You people claim Christians are clueless, yet you vote for one. Looks like you athiest liberals are the clueless ones.

The left knows that he is a Christian for political purposes only. They know that O'bama despises Israel in all reality, just like a good lib should. Excellent point btw.

Because Sarah they are ones currently doing the damage and murder in the world all the time 8(

Sarah,

That would be an interesting study, but having been on both sides of the issue I don't think your hypothesis would hold up.

The newsmedia and "intellects" over emphasize hard core baptist fringe groups as typical of Christians. Nothing could be further from the truth. Likewise filmakers prefer to use a Catholic priest or any Protestant denomination with a "turned up" collar - just because they symbolism is easily understood by all to be "Clergy".

Private schools typically score higher in the SAT's than public schools. I can see why. When my daughter transferred to a private school, she had to take 2 additional classes than the public school required.

Big Al,

But are they really? There's a whole lot of bad in the world. Done by Jews, Christians, Athieists, Agnostics, Hindus... I don't know about the Budhists though, they seem to be pretty chill.

Some of it's done in God's name, some isn't, but to limit "damage" to what's done by a radical fringe of one religion, is to discount and insult all of the people who suffer "damage" by other hands.

DB,

SAT scores are representative of taught knowledge, not psychological coping techniques, which is what I was getting at. And of course, I would want to include ALL religions, not just Christianity. I think our capability of handling and being resilient to fear and uncertainty is directly related to how much we depend on a set of beliefs primarily used to explain away that fear and uncertainty.

BigAl,

Then why do you only disdain Muslims, when every religion, since the dawn of time, has done sh**y things?

Everyone Else,

Sarah, human beings have done all sorts of terrible things in the name of all sorts of different reasons. Maybe he brought up Muslims because those are the human beings that happen to be bigger perpetrators of disdain at this point in time.

Replacement theology my rearend.... That would also mean that the new covenant was a lie.... That preacher is saying Jesus is a liar... If we study Orthodox Judaism we can see in history they have always had a name for people who support their enemy Jesus Christ.... They called them the "MINUTE".... All I wonder is, will there ever be MINUTE MEN in the USA again? ..... The main weapon of Christs army is the truth.... The word is mightier than the sword and can easily defeat the neo-cons who are everywhere these days, from dems, repubs, to false prophets of the church..... Know your enemy....

Kornfed,

There are about 1 Billion Muslims in this world. If they were ALL terrorists and bent on our destruction, we'd know it.

Your statement is just flat out prejudice. Muslims are easy for us to target, not because they are any more deserving than any other group, but because they're exotic and foreign seeming.

Why do you look at this from such a narrow context? Your life span is less than a blink of the eye in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't it make more sense to weigh this situation based on a larger sample size, you know, like recorded history as opposed to your narrow existance?

..... Know your enemy....

Unnecessary war from the right, socialism from the left...my enemy is all around me. Although, I dont have a problem with Israel defending themselves when Iran has publicly stated that they would like to wipe Israel off the face of the map. In this instance, it is justified in my opinion

Kornfed,

There are about 1 Billion Muslims in this world. If they were ALL terrorists and bent on our destruction, we'd know it.

Because their radicles are much more destructive that Christian radicals at this particular time. I am not religious myself. I call them like I see them

Your statement is just flat out prejudice. Muslims are easy for us to target, not because they are any more deserving than any other group, but because they're exotic and foreign seeming.

Why do you look at this from such a narrow context? Your life span is less than a blink of the eye in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't it make more sense to weigh this situation based on a larger sample size, you know, like recorded history as opposed to your narrow existance?

Is it not prejudice to attack Christians due to political affiliation?

It would be great if all American evangelicals relocated to the occupied territories! How can we start a foundation to buy them tickets, and even luggage?

Is it not prejudice to attack Christians due to political affiliation?

Yes, it is prejudice. Are you claiming I've done this, because please quote me where I've singled out Christians? All religons have wack job fringes, all are equally guilty. The difference is, you and Big Al are only singling out the wack job fringe element in one religion, as opposed to looking at the issue in the greater context. I will say, in terms of Newsvine, the most vitriolic hatred and bigotry I've seen posted, has been posted by people proclaiming themselves to be Christians. See, it's all relative to our experiences, but our experiences aren't necessarily the truth. Attributional bias and all that.

Because their radicles are much more destructive that Christian radicals at this particular time. I am not religious myself. I call them like I see them

Your opinion is completely related to the media in our country. If we lived in Africa where the Lord's Resistance Army runs rampant, or Eastern Europe where the Serbs slaughtered an untold number of Muslims, you'd probably be singing a different tune.

Actually BigAl everything you said is not true, but it is because you have posted as fact and then further supported that position that you are an idiot. I'll point out just one falsehood in your post. You state that Muslims want to exterminate you because you don't believe in Allah. There is no truth to this and in fact the Qu'ran expressely forbids forced conversions, and during the Crusades the Jews were protected by The Muslims from the Christians. Why would they do this if they wanted them all dead? They could have easily allowed the Christians to do the dirty work for them. I never said you were religious or that you were Christian. I was simply illustrating the point that what you have said can apply to each of the 3 major monothestic religions. By singling out Islam it makes one wonder what your true motivation is(racism, bigotry, or ignorance). By stating something that is not only untrue but that you are obviously ignorant of as if it were a proven fact makes you and idiot sir.

I will say, in terms of Newsvine, the most vitriolic hatred and bigotry I've seen posted, has been posted by people proclaiming themselves to be Christians. See, it's all relative to our experiences, but our experiences aren't necessarily the truth. Attributional bias and all that.

and I see it completely opposite hehe. Like I said, I call them as I see them. I witnessed 911, and I can tell you which religious denomination has most negatively influenced my life. Yes, I suppose this is relative to my experiences.

Your opinion is completely related to the media in our country

Thats quite a presumptuous statement to make isnt it?

Are you claiming I've done this, because please quote me where I've singled out Christians?

Yes, within the same post...

I will say, in terms of Newsvine, the most vitriolic hatred and bigotry I've seen posted, has been posted by people proclaiming themselves to be Christians.

Reading all these posts, it seems as if "the great revival" of the bible is starting. Zionism (false Jews), your days are numbered. Times near for you to pay the piper his due.

Thats quite a presumptuous statement to make isnt it?

Not at all. Do you really think that how you view the world isn't tinted by the 24 hour news cycle and internet? Or that how you view the news cycle internet, isn't tinted by how you already view the world? Humans are such self centered creatures, we're attracted to the sources that support our preconceived notions. We don't like our little defense mechanism bubbles burst, if you will. It's too scary to deal with the fact that we could all die tomorrow at the hands of any number of religiously affiliated terror organizations, be they Muslim or not, so instead we find the easiest target and console ourselves with, "Well if we can just eliminate them, we'll all be fine." The concept in it's actuality is unsolvable, so we find the simplest was to make it solvable, whether or not that way is right.

And into that the never ending, fear mongering, news media exploiting those notions, and you have a perfect clusterfu*k. And that doesn't even begin to address all of the ties between our politicians and media moguls, or the fact that the news media is basically one giant monopoly.

They exploit the hell out of people, and pander these wedge issues to keep us in a frothing, whirling state of "Oh my God, here come the Gay, Mexican, Muslims!!!!" All the while our politicians and our bankers are snickering behind their hands and roasting smores over fires built out of our tax dollars, hopes, and dreams.

Are these people ever going to stop fighting the Crusades?

Kornfed,

Don't take crap out of context. This was the paragraph you're quoting from...

Yes, it is prejudice. Are you claiming I've done this, because please quote me where I've singled out Christians? All religons have wack job fringes, all are equally guilty. The difference is, you and Big Al are only singling out the wack job fringe element in one religion, as opposed to looking at the issue in the greater context. I will say, in terms of Newsvine, the most vitriolic hatred and bigotry I've seen posted, has been posted by people proclaiming themselves to be Christians. See, it's all relative to our experiences, but our experiences aren't necessarily the truth. Attributional bias and all that.

So how is that prejudice towards Christians when read in it's entirity? Did I say anything about Christianity in general, or did I make a point relating to how our personal experiences bias us? If I was being prejudice in general, after I said...

I will say, in terms of Newsvine, the most vitriolic hatred and bigotry I've seen posted, has been posted by people proclaiming themselves to be Christians.

I would've spoke about how, therefore, ALL Christians must be hate mongers. Instead I did the opposite and pointed out how our beliefs are relative to our experiences. If anything I made the point that I too, if I wanted to, could base my opinon on the fringe element of wack jobs in a single religion, instead I chose to see it for the attributional bias it is.

Taking sh** out of context is a cheap trick, I figured you for better than that.

So how is that prejudice towards Christians when read in it's entirity?

Out of all angles and viewpoints posted here on the vine, you chose Christians to be the most vile. Your words, while softened by the admission of bias, still hold true within the context of a prejudice that you appear to hold

I would've spoke about how, therefore, ALL Christians must be hate mongers. Instead I did the opposite and pointed out how our beliefs are relative to our experiences.

I never said ALL to anything. ALL is never a true assessment of group behavior.

Are you claiming that I chose Christians as the most vitriolic, because I already believed that? Because really, spend more time on Newsvine, I've read some hateful things from them, specifically in the name of their religion. Things about abominations, and damning people to hell, judgment, deportation, disdain for the poor...

That's not bias, that's my actual experience. Just like your actual experience on 9/11 was watching radical Muslims committ murder. Now, to take that experience, and apply it to ALL Christians or ALL Muslims (like Big Al), that's prejudice. You weren't prejudice in seeing radical Muslims committ 9/11, were you? No, it's your ACTUAL experience.

Experiences happen. How we apply them to the rest of our lives determines whether or not we're biased, bigotted, or prejudice. PRE-JUDGE, get it? You're judging people based on the PRE, or what already, actually, happened.

I never said ALL to anything. ALL is never a true assessment of group behavior.

I never said you did, I was illustrating what it would have taken for that to ACTUALLY be a prejudice statement.

Are you claiming that I chose Christians as the most vitriolic, because I already believed that?

Yes

I never claimed that I was free of a bias...it was you that claimed all religions should carry blame for the injustices in the world. Therefore, the onus is on you to portray this belief in your opinion, which I judge , that you failed to do.

Kornfed,

Go read the Vines more. I guess??? You're trying to out talk me because you know your point is weak, but I promise you it won't work. Try reading again, because maybe you just missed the point...

That's not bias, that's my actual experience. Just like your actual experience on 9/11 was watching radical Muslims committ murder. Now, to take that experience, and apply it to ALL Christians or ALL Muslims (like Big Al), that's prejudice. You weren't prejudice in seeing radical Muslims committ 9/11, were you? No, it's your ACTUAL experience.

Did you see those terrorists as Muslims because of your preconceived notions? No, I didn't think so. I didn't read those posts as Christian, because of mine. They were Christians using their religion as justification for hate. Those were our experiences.

Click on my page, and check it out if you want. My favorites are the one's about gay people.

Your opinion is completely related to the media in our country. If we lived in Africa where the Lord's Resistance Army runs rampant, or Eastern Europe where the Serbs slaughtered an untold number of Muslims, you'd probably be singing a different tune.

Ironically, I believe that this assessment you gave of me actually applies to you. Lefties generally look at Christians to be an enemy of their ideology. I believe you have subconsciously adopted this group mentality, as the content of your arguments tend to portray

Go read the Vines more. I guess??? You're trying to out talk me because you know your point is weak, but I promise you it won't work. Try reading again, because maybe you just missed the point...

I dont know how else to say this. You are wrong. I enjoy debate...and I read plenty of the vine. Both of my claims can be validated by clicking on my name.

The moment Israel let's her guard down, the tiny democracy will no longer exist.

Israelis are committed to defending their homeland.

If evangelicals wish to join, I see no problem.

You're trying to out talk me because you know your point is weak, but I promise you it won't work.

Seems as though the accusations you make apply to your own state of mind. Where did you go? hehe

Sarah - you assume too much about what people claim to be true. There are many who think they are christian, and probably really aren't. There are also many who claim they are, just to make christians look bad.

What do you make of this? From 1 Timothy Ch 3

¹But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: ²For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, ³unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, ⁴traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, ⁵having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! ⁶For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, ⁷always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. ⁸Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; ⁹but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

Trust me, you cannot tell one from the other without being fully "plugged into God".

So, when the Democrat says the Republicans isn't a Christian. and the Republican says the Democrat isn't a Christian, I say Oh, Really? And then I listen and watch, and sooner or later it is revealed who they really are.

There are no athiest in hell!!

Probably because hell will be reserved for bible thumping hypocrits, who loudly proclaim their belief in Jesus, but then do all manner of evil for their own benefit. Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Atheists, on the other hand, haven't seen any proof to believe in God, and they are honest in their disbelief. When they do good, it is because they are good natured, not because they fear divine punishment or heavenly reward. Any omnipotent deity that wants them to believe and worship could easily present evidence and tell them how to worship, but since that isn't happening, there obviously isn't any deity that wants their worship.

God said that ALL will know who he is. if you don't know before you get there you will know after.

If omnipotent omniscient God wants us to know who It is, then It can speak directly to us, and It would know exactly what to say to give us that knowledge. It would be rather unfair of It to keep Its existence a big secret, then spring It on us when It was too late to do anything about It.

Words from mere mortal humans isn't very convincing, with thousands of different self-proclaimed prophets, each with a different and conflicting religious view. Only the official "Word of God" from God itself should be accepted, not the babblings of egotistical nutters.

Yes, "It" is the correct pronoun, not "He", as so many churches proclaim that God has no body parts or passions, therefore lacks the components to be masculine or feminine, therefore use the neuter gender "It".

believe it would be wise for every Christian to PRAY fervently for a change in the occupants of the White House. 10 mins a day in Prayer, for God to restore our Freedom under Him, would avail much.

I guess that it all depends on what you call "freedom".

olias of sunhillow, while I absolutely believe in the right of Israel to exist, that doesn't mean that I agree with all of Israels policies or actions.

fact: the bible was written thousands of years ago before "the media age" that we have now.

imagine any man trying to write the bible without devine intervention.

Honest Jo-

Would it come as a surprise to you that 700 years before the alleged time of Jesus, there were several groups who became known as "Atomists?" These people, without any divine intervention, suggested that the universe was made up of miniscule particles and void. When a number of these particles got together, they formed the physical substances (including US) that make up the known world. Pretty sage for such ignorant, incapable people, don't you agree?

Truth (fact) is, people the likes of Aristotle and Plato were light years ahead of the average person of today, in that they had astounding reasoning skills, as well as a comprehensive knowledge of human nature. I don't pick the Greeks over anyone else, as the Indians and Chinese were also quite advanced in their thinking.

The honest assessment of any of the religious texts would have to concede that it is actually very possible to construct an extremely elaborate narrative, when the only proof of its contents and assertions are drawn from other sections of the same text!

It's a bit like an ancient wall, built with stones that seem so precisely machined that only some advanced, maybe alien culture could have constructed it. That belief only holds up as long as we insist on using our own, modern concept of time and value as the standard of comparison. See, an average man, possessing moderate mechanical aptitude and about 6 hours of time, can fashion 2 moderate sized stones to fit together so perfectly that a dollar bill cannot be slipped anywhere between them, AND using NO MAN-MADE TOOLS! This has been demonstrated repeatedly on various documentary programs.

So, as a wall lasting centuries in apparent perfect fitting condition can be crafted, given enough time and effort, so can a tremendously complicated narrative be made that is just as convincing. That is especially true if people over a number of generations, raised as true believers, continue to massage and refine the story, which is then crafted from many writings into a single book by a council of "experts."

At the end of honest critical analysis, it becomes clear that no alien intervention or assistance is needed. Human Beings are endowed with both an astonishing capacity to craft their knowledge, skills and abilities AND the propensity to think of each other as complete idiots at the same time. The concept of God is almost necessary, to moderate these extremes. Sadly, such a concept usually falls short. As a result, we are left with hatred, persecution and outright murder.

Well stated, Disgusted ... and as always, Sarah, you are a light of reason in the void ... I was raised a Christian .. a Methodist to be specific. I knew from the age of six that what I was taught simply made no sense, and made it a point to study the matter deeply ... for decades. I can say without hesitation that almost no Christian I have ever met actually understands their faith, any more than any Muslim does .... they 'know' what they have been told, and have no idea how to interpret their 'holy books' for they have not the context within which to understand them.

What so many of many faiths DO seem to agree on, however, is the absolute certainly of their interpretation, to the degree that they feel it their 'godly mission' to force that fauty interpretation upon the world, and many of them at gunpoint, and this is not new now, as it was happening 3,ooo years ago. So it was with the Greeks, and the Spanish, and broadly upon the Middle East and Asia, and yes, with our own country (and not to our credit).

The Christian compilation which they call 'the Bible' has meanings within meanings, and much great knowledge, but it is NOT stated directly but is hidden within riddles as was the custom through the ages. The very few who understand it will not be standing at your door trying to convert you, nor shouting for blood in the streets, and will certainly never take any life, for they know better. As for the rest ... well, we have heard about them.

I can no longer call myself such as the term has been taken over by those without understanding. Know that 'the Christ' existed long before he called Yehua (poorly translated as Jesus). Know that the vision of Ezekiel was known to those who came LONG before and in many lands. Christans will call my words an abomination, and I respect that right for we all must have the right to see these things as we see fit. I tolerate any points of view unless I see someone attempt to impose their view upon the free will of another ... then and only then, there will be a rumble. :c) ... those without tolerance deserve none.

Too late. The thread has already started.

That is a great description of evangelical "christiians".

These folks don't care for Israelis organically, but for a very selfish reason linked to the rapture nonsense. Outside of that, Jews are who killed the Jesus.

The last thing we need is mentally disturbed half wits with imaginary friends wading into this issue.

There is nothing disturbed about spiritual/religious beliefs. Our interaction with the divine, or what we perceive as divine, is hard-wired into our brains.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

The fact that you personally dislike or have an aversion to spiritual experience in no way devalues others' spiritual life. The fact that you refer to religious/spiritual belief as a mental disturbance only illustrates that you don't really have a good grasp of the biological roots that give rise to such "imaginary friends."

True, WMG. But people often mistake human spirituality with religion...and the two are not necessarily the same. The need to express our spirituality is what is hard-wired into our brains and provides us with a way to become better people. But religion often corrupts this because it is controlled by humans whose sole purpose is to use our need for spiritual expression to further their own need for power and money. Very sad. Those religions who constantly strive for open, honest exchange (the hallmark of a non-corrupted religion) are very few and far between. Those who blindly follow corrupted religions do have mental health issues.

One can be very spiritual without being the least bit religious. Religion is a man-made institution. I choose not to participate in the trappings of these institutions.

I'm all for having profound, moving experiences. But believing in fairy tales isn't going to help anyone.

One can be very spiritual without being the least bit religious. Religion is a man-made institution. I choose not to participate in the trappings of these institutions.

dman1115

The smartest thing said so far! Thank you!!

I seem to remember evangelicals claiming that the Jews killed Christ.

Do they hate Muslims more than Christ-killers?

Pardon me if I just don't get it.

Evangelicals never called Jews "Christ killers" -- Roman Catholics did.

And last thing we need is a bunch of head in the sand atheists ignoring the fact that even if they wish to wallow in their ignorance there are many who do not, and those who do not act out of their knowledge.

Atheism has got to be so frustrating, you can't help but throw stones at Christians. I mean, think about it. You work your whole life, punching a timeclock, waiting to have fun on your vacation or weekend and then bemoan the fact that it's over and you have to go back to work, and then think that once you die, that's it. Everything you ever earned or worked for will go to someone who didn't work for them. You've banked EVERYTHING on the fact that there is nothing. So your life can basically be reduced down to "Let us eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die."

Your purpose in life is to gather stuff and memories so you can pass them on to those who didn't work for them, and when you come to the end of your life, console yourself with hopes that someone will put flowers on your grave. Sorry, but that is pathetic.

And if you miss the rapture of the church, and have this huge "THEY WERE RIGHT!" moment, first of all, we who know God do not at all think it is a "whew I'm saved...sucks to be you" attitude. You laugh at us and mock us and mock our God, and yet what will you do on that day when you finally understand that He is true and real? Will this be you?

¹⁵ Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. ¹⁶ They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! ¹⁷ For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Want to know what's so bad about this? The people know who's doing it!!! And all they can think to do is hide and wish for death?

So you go ahead and mock Christians, and post harsh, vicious and hateful comments about the One who loves us. You will wear every word like a shirt on that day when God judges the people of this earth by generations.

But hey, if all you do is blink out of existence when you die, then don't worry about it. I mean, as long as YOU think you have the highest knowledge in the universe. Better hope you're right. Because if you aren't, and what God has revealed to us IS right... and still, it's a sorrow. We'd rather that you turn and repent, and know Him.

Cool shades Levi!

Stellar, Levi. ☺

Because if you didn't teach people to jettison their ability to think for themselves and take responsibility for their own actions, that person's continued adherence to a religious order would be too uncertain.

I think they need to duke it out not with guns but in a rugby tournament.

John Mack,

I doubt it would fix anything, but it sure would be fun and might loosen people up a little bit!

I do think for myself and I take 100% resonsibility for my actions, both of which are basic to my faith. Where are you getting the mis-information that says anything different?

Whatever, they make it up as they go along. The funny thing is, that's the exact thing the haters of God and His people say about us. They do not care about truth, and feel free to rant and rage "against God and His anointed".

Thing is, if His love won't win them over, then perhaps His wrath will.

Once and for all, try your best to understand this, it might aid you to adulthood; there are no Gods, the Bible is simply psychotic crap. Stop hiding behind a Fable and face the real world. Your Pastors are all liars, if they claim any knowledge of God.

the Bible is simply psychotic crap

There is nothing simple about the bible. It is loaded with allegory and poetry, and contains one of the more accurate histories of the middle east from antiquity. Your belief that it is "psychotic crap" only means that you have never taken any time at all to study or understand it-- and I mean that in a historical/scholarly manner, not a spiritual one. Your failure to appreciate one of the greatest documents of mankind is not a virtue. Whether or not you regard the bible as fiction in no way divests it of its historical and present merit. I suppose that the works of Shakespeare are also "psychotic crap" because they are fictional? And the Hindu vedas? The Greek tragedies? Your failure to appreciate the catalogue of human experience that manifests through our literary works is an astonishing display of willful ignorance...

Okay, now I know where John Gaines is coming from. He's a raving, evangelical atheist, trying to put his atheistic spin on matters that are spiritual in nature.

Atheists are a dang silly lot. You declare you do not have to prove that God exists, yet declare that He does NOT exist. I guess that's why they call it "blindness". I read some of the stuff atheists post and it's great comic material. They seem like they're trying to be so sincere, yet only prove how idiotic it is to deny that God exists. Well, they're in for one helluva rude awakening.

Thompson Chain reference Bible - 129.99
Grandaughter's first children's Bible - 8.99
Atheist's look on their face when they realize they are standing before God - priceless!

See, we Christians speak of what we KNOW. You call it anecdotal evidence, which is basically saying that we're liars. Well, roses having a fragrance is anecdotal evidence, as is love. How do you know love exists? Prove it!

In between laughing at the antics of christian imbeciles and tricksters, to desperately prove what cannot be proved, I read my copy of 1001 nights, which is in fact the oldest bible in the world.

Well, you cling to it then. Mr. Gaines. Perhaps it will bring you comfort in the end. Yet..

¹⁹ This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. (John 3:19,20)

Amazing the lengths people will go to in their attempt to justify their rejection of the light.

And by the way, Christians can't prove God exists any more than you can prove love exists. All we can do is tell you the truth. It's up to God to convince you of the truth. Unfortunately many people won't listen to Him until they make a train wreck out of their life. And if you ignore Him here, and drown out His attempts to reach you, then you'll find out when you stand before Him.

I read my copy of 1001 nights, which is in fact the oldest bible in the world.

How is that, in any stretch of the word, a bible? It is not, nor has ever been, considered a holy book for any extant religion. That's like saying Mother Goose is a bible. And your statement that it is the "oldest" bible in the world (notwithstanding that it is not a holy book) is also incorrect. The Judeo-Christian bible and the Koran are each based on the Sumerian myths, which are the oldest known written documents in the world-- written on cuneiform tablets-- and include such direct parallels as the creation of the world in 6 days with the 7th as a day of rest, the creation of man from clay, a woman being created from the rib of a man, and the Flood. So you are incorrect on multiple counts... I should warn you, I've studied religious history extensively (of all manner of religions). BS doesn't sit well with me.

And that is all the way from never, never land.

Besides, who decides what's 'Holy' and what is not? You are not going to tell me that pervert churchmen do...out of a phalanx of Gods, which one decided a book they never wrote, much less seen, is their word.

What has not and can not, be authenticated, can not authenticate a religion. why are some people all too stupid to understand that.

You have a very poor grasp of how social constructs arise. College? Get some...

Mother Goose is certainly more literate than the cobbled together Bible and, as fables go, much more informative. If you are addressing religion as some type of Social Construct, rather than an amalgam of gangster cults, I expect you attended at an US College...it certainly indicates the lack of the understanding of what constitutes a Social Construct.

But then, we never had much hope for the standards of the US educational system. A little learning creates a pedant.

Mother Goose is certainly more literate than the cobbled together Bible

Your suggesting drunken fairy tales offer more literary worth than a more or less accurate history of the Jewish people? Sorry, but you've failed to convince me...

and, as fables go, much more informative

What subject? I think you'll find entire colleges as well as branches of archaeology are dedicated to biblical scholarship. There is not one college of Mother Goose, nor any ongoing efforts to unearth the histories contained within. Fail.

If you are addressing religion as some type of Social Construct, rather than an amalgam of gangster cults,

Anthropology is your friend. The design and implementation of religious institutions is inarguably a cultural experience and there is no better description for them other than constructs. Nietzche would certainly agree. In any case, the obvious, accepted definition of "Social Construct" certainly fits the bill nicely:

a social mechanism, phenomenon, or category created and developed by society; a perception of an individual, group, or idea that is 'constructed' through cultural or social practice.

You're going to tell me that religion doesn't fall into that category? I digress... you're obviously incapable of engaging in this conversation with even a modicum of intelligence or civility.

I expect you attended at an US College...it certainly indicates the lack of the understanding of what constitutes a Social Construct.

Your vitriolic hatred for organized religion is startling and you clearly haven't got a clue what a "social construct" is, so I imagine that you attended no college at all.

But then, we never had much hope for the standards of the US educational system. A little learning creates a pedant.

And apparently a little skepticism makes philistine troglodytes incapable of appreciating the inherent history, literature and culture that developed in and around the extent holy books of our world and would rather read nursery rhymes most people had the sense to put away upon reaching the age of 6 or 7. Sorry, sir (or ma'am), but your arguments have no weight. I'm sorry that you're so adamant that the big bad boogie book, the Bible, is so worthless-- but the fact of the matter is that, irrespective of your personal beliefs, the Bible (and other books like it: the Baghavad Gita, the Koran, the Tipitaka, Suras, etc) are incredible works of literature and philosophy that have shaped the world that you inhabit. You're going to have to make peace with that.

Well, to put it simply, as I know that babble salesmen and pushers are often retards, usually failed Encyclopedia hucksters, you could make the same argument you propound, for Polls, Votes and Economics and Statisticians, with particular notice to the Harvard failed business development curriculum. Their 'Business' models which are on a par with the ridiculousness of the babble: and we all know, how erroneous the interpretations of those are, take a choice, what they all have in common is that they 'authenticate' any lie you care to publish.

It reminds me of the dimwitted Romans, who aped the architecture, fashions and art of the Egyptians, simply because it was fashionable. I expect that it was an 'in year' for mad prophets.

When I stop laughing you can remind me " shaped the World" if you mean actually this filthy world.....better that they were never written, unfortunately, it is Homo Sapien ingenuity which 'shaped the World...so you cannot even get that right.

Good bye, John. Enjoy your ignorance; they say that it is bliss.

When You die and meet the Forty Virgins, or whatever fairy tale they brainwash you with, in your particular idiot Christianity, then you may well say that to me en passant as my poor forlorn deprived spirit...has to flutter about, with no treats nor free nookie, as punishment for not being a believer.

Note the value of studying 'Mother Goose' it gives perspective to the closed mind.

Anyway, you are not the first religion huckster I have seen off the premises, I even managed to P. off a Papal Legate...in the Congo: the fool attempted to prevent us from issuing Contraceptives to UN Troops who, mostly, would have shagged a monkey.

Happy 'Babble' flogging to you.

I'm not sure where, in the dialogue above, you determined that I was "brainwashed" and or a "huckster" for any religion. You're obviously not a very capable reader, or at the very least your capacity for accurate comprehension is poor. In all of the above, I have defended the holy books of all religions as the literary masterworks that they are and as invaluable descriptors for the cultures that engendered them-- that is a scholarly defense, not a spiritual one. I even made that point rather clearly at comment #4.7 yet you have rather willfully ignored that, assumed I was some sort of self-righteous holy man and attacked me as a result. That's unbelievable foolishness.

I am NOT a Christian. I am NOT a Muslim. I am NOT a Jew. I am NOT a Buddhist. I am NOT a Hindu.

I am a Scholar.

I digress...

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

And, if you consider barely literate, in their true form, not the bastardised re-writes of Cultish snake oil salesmen, as 'Scholarly' ...you should recognise this then:

" the Bible and the Testament are impositions upon the world"

in fact my relative was a Canon at Diss, in Norfolk, and supervised Fressingfield and Thetford's Parish.

I have the distinct impression that you are selling, what you have not got.

You also say:

"a social mechanism, phenomenon, or category created and developed by society; a perception of an individual, group, or idea that is 'constructed' through cultural or social practice"

You are, of course, describing Drug dealing, most forms of organised criminality and political dis-functionality,

john, you seem to have a rather extreme level of hostility towards religion. I'm not a believer myself, and find some of the religious posters here to be , well, self-important and annoying as well as irrational, but i respect the basic message that most have of peace towards others. it's just that there are those that twist things to justify their own hatred and actions

How odd that I would have an antipathy to Cults which are laughable in the stupidities which they impose upon their captives, and before you declaim my use of 'captive' note that in the US local communities are dominated by available local industry, those who attend christian rituals, do so as a part of the currency of survival, they need good character references from the local church hierarchy, to upwardly negotiate themselves through small time local economies, where the churches have ensured they have a large influence.

Also, many people are so mentally retarded, that the idea of having a 'reward' -a better life when they die...sucks them in as fast as a snake oil peddler can sell 'cures' ...a nations duty, is to protect the gullible, it lamentably fails when it come to religion, mostly because politics is huckstered in exactly the same way...promises,never intended to be honoured, false love and financial enrichment, except, they do not admit that the only financial enrichment, will be for the huckster they are induced to elect or the pastor/priest/monk/shaman/rabbi/imman, or the hundreds of other reincarnations of Jewish Jesus.

Wow, how could you even dream that this is a "good" thing? What you see as hatred, the rest of the world sees as realistic understanding of insanity. Get a grip before you wake up some morning and kill your family.

Long live Israel and may GOD Bless her continuously.

How's that for a good thing???

Can't say I disagree with you here, Mike. You're right. From the so-called "enlightened ones" and "progressives" running off at their little fingers on their keyboards slandering, which is the exact thing they abhor, or CLAIM to abhor.

These folks are trying like hell to hasten the "end times". Think about what that means.

@chefaz1319563 as long as we use the word "Israel" to mean our relationship with the Lord... As long as we use Christs version of what "Israel" is... a "personification".... Otherwise, your saying Christ was a liar and so was Jeremiah and many others... The Jews lost the covenant.. If we use the meaning of "Israel" as a "land" in the New Testament unless its specified as such, then we are going to be confused and may even be doing Satan's bidding as a result of those twisted lies.... Satan only wants the temple, to slay the lamb... Christians should not be helping him, but false prophets are tricking many... It is true that around 50 years back, the Zionists funded an idea of infiltrating Christian church's with trained leaders at Bible colleges who would deceive the future generation of preachers, twist words, etc. and label Christs covenant as replacement theology... I personally watched it grow from church to church and could not believe it would grow this large.. The congregations need to stop listening and pick up the book and read it for thyself instead of buying that line of used hogwash.

care4mycountry, you're going to need to give me some specifics, links, etc., in regards to what you say.

Would you deny Israel as a sovereign nation??? Are you offended when I say GOD Bless Israel??? Would you be offended if I said GOD Bless America??? We're not even mentioned in The WORD.

I was taking a quick swing back and happened upon your post but I hope to see your response later. I have to run out right now. Thanks.

Your the one who said "Long live Israel and may GOD Bless her continuously" so how do you get that I deny Israel as a sovereign nation? Do answer, don't dodge... But you can not,,, cuz I did not...

Next you said "Are you offended when I say GOD Bless Israel??? "... Nope.. Not offended at all,,, not as a personification of Israel and definately not as a land, cuz they could sure use a dose of the Lords enlightenment... So while we are at it,, God bless the world..

Next you said "Would you be offended if I said GOD Bless America??? ... Nope... These words roll of my lips near daily,, especially when storys like this one are in my face... "Please God, Bless America. Bless these citizens with your spirit,, Bless this nation,, We are ALL good at heart, I do know,, but we need your bless'ed spirit more than ever as a true guidance,, to heal the blinded of our land,, and make them see the synagouge of satin,, the neo-con agenda for their master,, for us to all know them as you do Lord. Please be fair to our nation and Bless us all with the bright and shining truthful light on the hill (knowlage) that is Israel (personification of our one true God). Amen.

Next you said "care4mycountry, you're going to need to give me some specifics, links, etc., in regards to what you say"......... OK... Old testament & New testament for the covenant... If your wondering about a link for what I had said about the Zionists hi-jacking the churches,,, I'll see if I can find you something on google.. I doubt it, but I'll look.. Preachers used to warn about it but also a lot of famous men had made some speeches on it in the 60s to so I'll see if I can find you some of them.. If I remember one was even a Zionist from his point of view as to the movement they were up to.. The biggest truth to what I said though was being told it, then watching it materialize.. and I want you to know I have no reason to make it up.. None.. I'll hope their may be some others on here who belonged to the old time religion who have watched so much happen right before our very lives... Maybe someone else here can please help out with some testomony.

Whoa, care4mycountry...take it easy. You approached me and I never said that "you did" - I asked "would you", as in a question.

I'm fully aware that you were referring to The WORD. I'd like to know specifically to which Scriptures that you refer. That is a part of what I was asking for along with links to your statements. You're making some serious ones that you need to back up. And saying that I call CHRIST JESUS, Jeremiah and others a liar is a serious accusation that I do not appreciate. I have no idea why you would say something like this.

This is a respectful response to you. Please respectfully provide specifics if you wish to discuss this further (and I hope that you do) but just for the record, I fully support Israel as a Christian and I fully support Israel personally.

Would you deny Israel as a sovereign nation??? Are you offended when I say GOD Bless Israel??? Would you be offended if I said GOD Bless America??? We're not even mentioned in The WORD.

Would you deny the Palestinians (some of whom are Christians) as a sovereign people? Would you be offended by someone saying "God Bless the Palestinians"? What about "God Bless the Jordanians" or "God bless the Lebanese"? What if someone were to say "Allah Bless America"?

Would you deny the Palestinians (some of whom are Christians) as a sovereign people?

I would. If they want to be a sovereign people, then let them act like it.

I have a Christian 'friend' both on Newsvine and Facebook who is Egyptian, living in Gaza. He identifies himself as a Christian, yet recently began posting vicious, bloody and horrific drawings, caricatures, cartoons, and so on, on Facebook, every one not just denouncing violence, but advocating the destruction of Israel, and the murder of Jews. I'm talking knives dripping with blood and a Jew lying with his throat cut, of Jews lined up and shot to death, and so on. There's your "some of whom are Christians" among the Palestinians. I had to block him on Facebook. I've kept the email and Newsvine channels open, but my 8 year old Granddaughter is a friend on Facebook, under her momma's and my watchful eye. I don't know if she saw those, but just because Palestinians fill young children's minds with that trash doesn't mean I have to let it happen to my 8 year old Granddaughter. I'm a man in this world, a former soldier, and I can tolerate much worse, and take it in perspective.

Have you ever thought of discussing anything you might know, for as sure as hell, you know bugger all about the Palestinians.

I take it, JG, that you mean I don't know anything about the Palestinians. So, you are calling me a liar? Hmm...you must be one of the "useful infidels" that the radical Muslims use to try and lend credibility to their ways. How interesting that you would throw stones at me and then ask if I bothered to discuss. Wow. Pretty glaring hypocrisy there, pal.

I cannot stop laughing, are you Bongo the Clown, it is such a waste of talent if your not him. Do rush out and audition for a Circus.

In your delusional dreams...maybe. If GOD is on their side they don't need our bunker buster bombs,right? Let their GOD take care of Iran.

As, I am sure, He will someday "take care" of you.

Bill1942...Listen,youngster, I don't need his or your help. I take care of me and mine. 1935, here.

God doesn't take sides, knucklehead. They are His rules that are in play and He's just the referee. If you want to know the rules, just ask Him. If you're not talking to Him, you don't know the rules and you're really not involved in the game. Slinging bitter, nasty words at your team mates doesn't make for good sportsmanship and camaraderie and your team mates can only carry you for so long. Sorry for calling you a knucklehead.

By the way, we're ALL on the same team and this game is just a scrimmage until we get to the big dance.

Well if I am shopping for a religion I am thinking Islam is the way to go. Their heaven offers lots of honey, almonds and quite a few virgins - 40 virgins was last I heard. It might be less virgins depending on your level of devotion, financial contributions, political affiliation, if you are a martyr etc... I am just saying...

I must admit .... 40 Virgins is quite a sales pitch

I must admit .... 40 Virgins is quite a sales pitch.

I must respectfully disagree - 20 experienced and skilled perverts would be far far better than 40 virgins. Especially for an eternal heavenly orgy...

I died and woke up in America, I was promised Hell by our Chaplins...because I would not force my soldiers to attend services and, even a Papal Legate complained when I issued condoms to our UN troops. these bas***ds never tell the truth...Hell would have been much better place than America. Can I kill myself to get out of this nightmare --of having to live in America.

You have hit on the underlying issue - there is NO god on their side. This myth exists only in the minds of the delusional, violent maniacs that believe it. If you have any experience with working with the insane, you should recognize the telltale evidence. What do we do with the insane to protect them and us from their insanity? In the context of human beings, we take away their weapons and put them in an institution! In the context of nations, we should isolate Israel and most of the Middle East and let them figure it out on their own. But first we should take away ALL their weapons.

Giving Israel more weapons is like giving the schizophrenic at the nut house a bigger knife. After he stabs everyone in the institution, he will start on the staff.

Just because YOU are paranoid doesn't mean that they are not after you.

They just need to find that Ark of the Covenant. As we all saw in Raiders of the Lost Ark, it can wipe out nations' armies, and melt and crush the heads of Nazis (or republicans).

I kinda liked the rugby thing, John, but come on, all republicans are bad?

That people in the 21st century can believe in this nonsense is very depressing. And if Santorum is any example, things are getting worse.

The paranoids are after someone???

The paranoids are always after someone!!! ☺

Oh things are definitely getting worse. Most human beings seem to be devolving. I tell you now, If mankind does destroy itself, it will be due to Religious Extremism.

"Are we not men? We are Devo." Now I remember where that came from...

If I'm delusional and violent, why don't I own a gun?

JB in TN - Looks like you won't have much choice if you vote in November...because Obama and all of GOP candidates believe in God.

American Brother - Your are more correct that you may know. Islamic extremism is the most prominently volatile form of religion in the world today and would love to destroy at least a third of humanity that is not Islamic if they could. Christianity, though not perfect either, has already undergone a period of reformation from the dark ages when it was used horrifically my monarchs to justify killings and conquering more land. Islam has not yet undergone such a reformation and is headed in that direction. In my humble opinion, their reformation process will involve massive scale war with Israel and the "Western infidels". It will not be the end of the world, but Islam will eat a massive piece of humble pie when they lose the war. At least today, Christianity is not out to conquer the world by force, per se, like Islam is preparing to try to do. In fact, Christians in the Middle East have dwindled from around 15% of the population to a mear 2% in the past couple of decades...mostly because they are killed by or have to flee persecution by these Islamic states. Islam needs a purge, a reformation period.

"freedom",

Only the Republicans who vote or run for office! LOL

No, the fundamentalist Shiites look for the re-emergence of the Twelfth Imman and want the conflict for his return. Iran's Supreme Islamist Council believes this and wants power over the region.

Jesus doesn't even know when His return is on the calendar, God will say when, and no one else knows that timetable.Both say 'thanks but just be ready.' And why should Christians fear Islam or even radical Jews for that matter?

It seems "christians" have much bigger problems to worry about than birth control.

@Rick - What the hell are you talking about? What the hell do the Shiites have to do with square dudes comment? You are denying the simple truth that evangelical Christians and messianic Jews believe that the creation and support for the State of Israel will help bring along the messiah's return. Many of them wrongly believe that they can bring about the great conflict foretold in the Bible and are therefore attempting to play God, so Im not sure why you're saying No. Oh and who the hell said Christians should fear Jews or Muslims?

stewgotts - For over 60 years the evangelicals have been doing what they can to trigger Armageddon. They revel in the idea that billions of people will die and leave them (evangelicals) in control of the world. Nothing meek about these bible thumpers. For the past 40 years or so they have been grooming Israel and the US for the great war. At the same time they have been helping the Muslims obtain and develop weapons, create theocracies throughout the middle east and organize terrorist groups. The evangelicals are poised to stage a local or regional conflict that will trigger Armageddon. Very sick stuff but we give them tax free status to carry out their agenda and have allowed evangelicals to take control of the American political system. They are organized, delusional (but support and reinforce the delusion in each other) and want almost everyone on this planed dead so that they can impose their version of sharia law on whoever survives.

It seems you are the one advocating a violent solution to your perceived problem. Those who love Christ, love peace.

Really? Are you saying the Zionists are not working toward an all out shoot out with Iran? Have you been reading the papers or magazines, listening to radio, or watching anything on TV lately?

How do you justify your position given that Tel Aviv has repeatedly attacked its neighbors with overwhelming American technical power and without guilt? Christ has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue, he was a great guy, but he has been dead for 2000 years or so, let him rest!

Oh, and tell the native Americans and the Africans who died under the mighty sword of the Lord that people who love Christ are peaceful.

BTW, WW1 and WW2 were fought in Europe by Christ loving folks, remember those wars?

And you wonder why we see you as delusional?

I agree. It should be left to the muslims.

well, Jerry Fallwell once wrote that "God is pro-war", so it must be so!

http://www.wnd.com/2004/01/23022/

Advocation of war does not appear to be in line with the teachings of Christ.

Whatever,

Maybe not to you, but your take on the Christian myth is not the only nor is it the dominant interpretation. That is the problem we have on our hands, crazies like Falwell telling the mindless dummies that God is pro-war.

When you start off with a delusional myth that is designed to take advantage of the poorly educated, you get some of those folks with a really dark interpretation. That is especially true when you have a bunch of loudmouth false prophets making money out of the fear and terror in the hearts of the weak and ignorant. How do you think Hitler got control of the Germans when they were down?

texc2, that is one reason that I like the Amish, I may not agree with them, but I have no fear that they are going to attack me or try to take over the government "in gods name".

Total B .S.!..... Randyk, try using you brain for a change.

Gee randy, do you need a wife? Your way of thinking (or, more properly, NOT thinking) IS the problem.

If your neighbor shows up some day with a book that says he can take your house because the book says so, would you believe that too? The bible is the written word of a desert tribe of narrow minded, ignorant manipulators, that is all. To add context to the issue, much of it was borrowed from other cultures of the region. For example - monotheism came from Egypt not from heaven.

Given the demand of the book as written by the hucksters long ago, no changes could be incorporated. That was their biggest mistake.

Why would you think your god allowed us to investigate and understand the world around us? Why would he have given us the ability to think? With the stagnation built into the bible, it cannot keep up with the obvious around us. It is a DEAD myth and cannot lead to anything but DEATH.

Of course, that is what the bible is based on - a simple solution to the human problem of death. Instead of recognizing that death is part of life, the delusional, fear based, religious fanatics need a fairy tale.

Bobl, it would appear you are living under that curse by your own choice. You are full of venom. That venom will only eat you alive and make you and everyone around you miserable. Sure, call God a myth, call those who follow Him delusional. Accuse them with the delusions in your own mind about them. God created you for love, but you cant love, you are wounded and full of self hatred, so you have to hurt others. That myth you call Him, would love to take that weight of bitterness off your back. Your picture of Him is beneath His dignity, (Mine is for that matter). He is approachable. He is real. He is genuine. He is full of love. He is mostly happy. He has genuine love for you in spite of your view of yourself, Him and others. He exists. He exists in your mind because you exert so much energy trying to disprove Him.

You speak of love. Why then do you have such hatred for people who, through no fault of their own, are different than you? Although I assume you do not acept that gay people do NOT choose to be gay - the fact is they do not. It is part of who they are. I believe in God. My problem is so many of his evangelical supporters do not live the gospel they claim to believe.

Sorry to be the one to break the news, but Islam also comes from the lineage of Abraham.

Jedd, you are assuming too much and changing the subject. Where did I say I have a hatred for people? Where did I say that God hates gays? I believe Westboro will be keeping Hitler, Neitzche, Stalin, and Timothy McViegh company for eternity unless they repent. I overeat, that is just as much a sin as sexual sin. I am losing weight to deal with that. It is in our struggle, and not our own strength that moves God's heart with compassion towards us, it is not in our perfection. The foot of the cross is a level playing field. We all have the same footing as the next person.

TunTavernWarrior-1234670, I am a born-once Atheist, but your reply above, was one of the finest examples of simple faith I've ever read. Well written and thoughtful, Sir. I congatulate you.

No Keating...Nope, don't put it on god..try using the intelligence YOU have. End this TAX free ride that religion has would go a long way to solving ALL our problems. I hate for my tax dollars mto give a free ride to some TV evengalist or Korean front.

AMEN brother !!! (pun intended)

Wow, Bobl-1819708, from whence springs thy eternal wellspring of hate?

In one of Bob Woodward's books about Bush's lead up to the war after 911; he reported that the PowerPoints used to present the pros & cons of going to war with Iraq etc had all kinds of biblical scenes & proverbs inserted through out these presentations. Donald Rumsfeld verified this in an interview independent of the Woodward's book. My point is although the Islamic radicals used beheadings as a tool to scare the crap out of us, we or our Christian influenced White House used tomahawk missiles to do our bidding. We televised ours as well and made a mini-series of it called "Shock & Awe".

Yeah and you've also never seen a video like that with a Muslim Imam. You have only seen them with terrorist and in case your too ignorant to find out for yourself there were and are plenty of Jewish terrorist. Hell some of them actaully went on to become powerful politicians in Israel, even Prime Minister. Just look and Shamir and Begin members of the Lehi and Irgun. There was also this Jewish guy from Brooklyn that walked into a mosque and killed over 20 innocent people in cold blood, but you're probably right. Only Muslims can be terrorist

To Malfean,

Don't know if they videotaped it or not.But on the Jewish "Purim Day",Baruch Goldstein an American born Jew,carrying not a big knife,but instead firearms,entered the Cave of the Patriarchs" Mosque in Hebron. He wasn't dressed in robes though,he had an IDF uniform on .And even though witnesses said he had helpers with him,the Israelis never " managed' to catch them. Once in the Mosque he opened fire,killing 29 worshipers at prayer and wounding more than 125. Goldstein was thought to be reenacting part of the Purim story. At Goldstein's funeral, Rabbi Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish fingernail". Samuel Hacohen, a teacher at a Jerusalem college, declared Goldstein the "greatest Jew alive, not in one way but in every way" and said that he was "the only one who could do it, the only one who was 100 percent perfect." His grave site become a pilgrimage site for Jewish extremists; a plaque near the grave reads "To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel." At least 10,000 people have visited the grave since the massacre. Some visitors kissed and hugged the gravestone, or even kissed the earth under which Goldstein was buried, declaring him a "saint" and "hero of Israel." The radical Jewish settlers celebrate the anniversary of the massacre in the West Bank, sometimes even dressing up themselves or their children to look like Goldstein. Jewish settlers have during celebrations of Purim sang songs praising Baruch Goldstein's massacre demonstratively in front of their Arab neighbours. A phrase from the song reads "Dr. Goldstein, there is none other like you in the world. Dr. Goldstein, we all love you… he aimed at terrorists' heads, squeezed the trigger hard, and shot bullets, and shot, and shot." Not a lot of difference here from the Muslim terrorists that we complain about. The common thread is that radical fundamentalism,Muslim,Christian,and Jewish are a bad bunch. Hate being their real creed. They defile the faiths they claim to follow.

Uncle BoB

Arafat did a much better job don't 'cha think?

Dr. Goldstein, we all love you… he aimed at terrorists' heads, squeezed the trigger hard, and shot bullets, and shot, and shot." Not a lot of difference here from the Muslim terrorists that we complain about.

Except the muslim terrorts are far far more profiecient at what they do.

Poor Dr Goldstein!! He doesn't evan get a street named after him.

Except the muslim terrorts are far far more profiecient at what they do.

I concur. And inexhaustible in their efforts, as well.

Sounds like you need to understand the current "Jewish state" is manmade (and not long ago)

God blesses those who worship brown rocks and curses those who worship grey rocks??

Makes me wish I was around 500 years ago so I could have written an entire passage in the Bible on how God only loves people with brown hair and green eyes, All should bow at their feet and ask for redemption.

The country of Israel was formed by the British in 1948 in an effort to appease the Jews in the US and entice them to jump into the War. This creation was more political then Biblical in its creation.

Big Jim, You need Big Help.

"God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curse the Jews". Very simple. What part of that do people not understand? Open your eyes people."

Let's see? I wonder who wrote this piece? What was their ethnicity? What was their intent? Most who write their own histories make themselves the "chosen ones" who are not to be tampered with without severe penalty. It is simply far too evident a pattern in ancient histories. That's why it has always boggled my mind that the Jews are unique at all? And of course that has far more to do with the spread of the Bible than anything. And the Holocaust which I of course believe occurred. But we don't generally hold the same feelings for Armenians and they too experenced a massive genocide.

But evangelical Christians truly consider the Jews as but of a pawn in their plan. The plan written by a crazy man on the Isle of Patmos several millenia back. And Israel wouldn't exist today without the assistance of some truly foolish British fundamentalists.

Today we know there are those still trying to breed a pure red heifer and others who plot to destroy the Temple Mount. And that would surely start a monstrous conflict. But of course it would be man-made.

But Revelation is never going to happen. This world will die someday no doubt. But the people? We are an afterthought. There is nothing to say that our atmosphere might turn poisonous someday and kill us all. Or one of literally millions of other potential scenario's. When that day comes it won't matter if you are Jew, Gentile or infidel. There will be no one riding in on a cloud or Mahdi's appearing. Like the death of a human it will be a natural process. The lights will go out and Earth will be a distant memory. Then thankfully and finally this religious idiocy might stop. But it will probably take such an event to end it all. That's the sad part. No happy endings here.

Like it or not, Big Jim speaks the truth.

Speaks the truth???? Get a grip. The "truth" has several meanings, there is absolute religious "truth" that is totally relative to the church you go to, there is a fluid, changing scientific "truth" that demands intelligent, thoughtful observation, and there is political "truth' that is based in propaganda and has nothing whatever to do with anything. Which one are you talking about?

Ok, for just one moment, let's NOT assume the Bible is the word of God! After all, the ones who told us it was were in it for the power, we all know that! Like the candy salesman handing out lollypops to the kids on the street, we should question their intensions, right?

So, given the proposition that the "holy" book is not the word of god, where do we end up? The world does not come to an end, the sky does not fall. But all the babble coming from the pulpits becomes vapid drivel and the world becomes more peaceful. Why do you un-repentent non-thinkers continue to hold to a book that preaches hatred and suffering for all? It appears to the rest of us that the bible was foisted on us by scamsters and there are millions who still have not come to that simple realization. Are they THAT afraid of the darkness?

BTW, these are not thoughts from the mind of the Devil, only the self righteous, fear driven, simplistic fanatics who cannot stand to question the validity of the Bible think that.

A thought that demands validity based on the thought itself is circular and, therefore, not part of human intelligence. Believe what you want, voodoo, alien invasion, tarot cards, whatever, just don't try to lay this crap on the rest of us!

No big jim speaks a bunch of superstitious nonsense that exists only in his delusional mind, not in reality.

You are correct.

acj - You are correct - we do fear the christians as much as we fear any other religious extremists.

ACJ78 you speak as if you were a Prophet... All knowing, all seeing...

I'm phobic of ANYbody that needs an old book as a crutch to live their daily lives. Sorry, I have a backbone to stand straight with, and a brain to use that's all mine. I don't need a silly book, so yeah, I'm phobic, and with good reason!

The argument of the Bible as a crutch does not hold water. Consider the Constitution of the United States, and all the subsequent federal and state laws that support it. These may all be considered a "book" in the same way that the Bible is. Do you really believe you and all of the rest of society could function without your "crutch" of the U.S. law system? If you do, then you are many times more delusional than the least sane Bible believer.

Chuck

If you are a member of Western Society you have been shaped by one of those "old books". We all have.

Those influences are indelably etched into our collective conscience. I can't imagine you or I willing to abandon them? America and Israel did not elect a pastor, priest or rabbi to be president so relax any fears you have that Americans or Israeli (except for the arab ones that might strap-on a bomb). we havent done that in over 300 years so I don't expect that any time soon. All you have to worry about THEM is when they want to chime in on abortion, the death penalty and wheather there should be a warning label on audio entertainment products that give notice of language that might offend Consumers that wish to be offended by such things so they can avoid buying it while remaining offended. Thankfully the couple aborto-terrorists wised sent the anti-abortion movement shark-jumping, but I digresss. The Judeo-Christian collective does not have in their silly books or thinking that they must dominate the world. As far as they are concerned the world can take it or leave it...the rest is up to the God they believe in from their silly book.

So, Whatever, you are admitting that the Bible was written by human beings just like the Constitution, right? If we all lived according to the human sympathetic mores as outlined in the Bible because we understand that it is a better way to live, no problem. But if you demand out of fear that everyone behave according to some of the totally outdated and ignorant demands of the "true" words of God, you will only create more violence and hatred in the world.

PS, the "golden rule" that underlies the decency of the Christian myth did not originate with Jesus or the Jews. It existed long before in many forms all over the region. The most likely path it took to Christianity was from the Zoroastrians in Persia among whom Jesus lived during the time he was unaccounted for in the New Testament. He appears to have been trained by Zoroastrian priests and then returned to the Levant to make his mark. There is no evidence that Jesus was telling anyone that he was the Son of God until he returned to Jerusalem.

And you accuse someone else of hate?? Wow.

Wow dewman, talk about hate filled garbage, please read your own garbage...if your an example of gods loving people, I will stick with my dog thanks, he is more loving than anything I have seen here.

Wow, you sure are hateful ... especially of the President ... and how the hell did he come up in this conversation anyway???? I wonder why??? mmmm, could you be a racist redneck too ????

Woohoo! The replies to dewman's post are HILARIOUS. He gives a *slightly* biting response to the libs, and they come back and rake him over the coals for approaching a *tenth* of the vitriolic responses they've been littering this column with. I think you responders have completely proven dewman's point.

Whatever,

Whatever!

So you think this is a raking over the coals .... just wait until God gets him.

this is a left wing wacko site that promotes anything and like the other left wing wackos they have there agenda, do you think these creeps go anywhere else for there news info? NO! they are followers not leaders and most have probably had there mind poisoned by the universities of this country

ah, those "evil universities", of course.

(rolls eyes at the perpetuation of ignorance)

you people get on here with all this hate and dont even know what your talking about, what are you retards.. 20 25 fresh out of school or what?

going on 50 now. now what is the brainless trash that you were spewing about "hate"?

Bo, if they "honor Jesus Christ", why are the extremists sentencing to death Christians and seeking to annihilate Christians in general?

Exactly! Not only a cult, but Jesus is considered a blasphemer and false prophet, nothing but an old school David Koresh. So they are embracing a religion that no more worships Jesus than I do as an atheist.

acj78
They honor Jesus by considering him a prophet (unlike Judaism), but since he's not the second coming, they don't follow the new testament since they wouldn't consider it the word of god. Read the Old Testament sometime (to which the Koran is more closely related ) and see how forgiving and loving THAT Christian god was!

Acj78 you answered your own question... because they are extremist...

Where do you people get your delusions? I know a #of Jewish people. Many of them very Orthodox, and I've never heard any of them speak of Christianity as a cult. As a matter of fact many of them believe that Christ lived, and was a prophet. They don't believe he was the Messiah of course, but as our religions are so closely linked we've had many interesting discussions about them.

To compare Christianity to Terrorist Muslims is just downright foolish. Now don't start on the stories of the inquisition, and the crusades. Did you realize that it was the Muslims who FIRST attacked predominately Christian Europe when they came out of Africa into Spain and France around the middle/end of the 7th century? They took over the Holy lands that both Christians and Jews held most important. And then blamed the Christians when they fought back and tried to get the lands that were stolen back.

But that was then, and this is now. Iran has been screaming about the destruction of Israel for many years. While I don't believe that we should get ourselves in the middle of it, if Iran strikes we WILL be involved.

Whatever gave you the idea that Jews consider Christianity a cult, Bo?

If we all would believe only 10% of what our government tells us and only 1% of the media , we would be a lot better off. When I hear the word politician, the FIRST thing that enters my mind is LIAR! The next thing is CORRUPT! The last thing is BOUGHT! I know, just like a bank , that WHAT COMES FROM HIS MOUTH IS FOR HIS BENEFIT AND NOT MINE.

Onward Christian soldiers as marching forward to war. Are they nuts?

Bobl: ... and 0% of what organized religion...

With a name like DrWho you better stay away from the Sci Fi channel..We see what you believe in.. what was your saying? Aaaa, a work of Fiction...LOL

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Love is at the basis of all Biblical teaching. If someone is spouting hate, then they are not following the teachings of Christ.

Whatever,

You need to read the Old Testament again, and take a look at how the organized church has implemented the "teachings" of Christ! I am afraid you will be very disappointed.

PS, just because the religious, fanatical right wing is not ostensibly organized does not release it from the hatred underlying the mental condition of its followers.

Most of these Christians are the slaves of money changers, but they are not aware. WAKE UP PEOPLE! Bankers run the world and if you don't play their game, they will kill you, just like they killed Christ because he was a threat to their business.

The MATRIX is real:

It is the world pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Google for "How do banks create money" and understand how deep the rabbit hole goes. Understand how bankers create money and demand interest for it while you and I work for every penny. Understand how we all are slaves, yet some of us are not even aware of it.

Morpheus: I imagine that right now you're feeling a bit like Alice…tumbling down the rabbit hole? I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth.

Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Neo: "The Matrix"

Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?

The matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwYwHZ7aNS0

You are all thought to work hard, pay your taxes, borrow your mortgage and be a home owner (aka good citizen), while banks create money out of nothing and they give it to you and to your government, and then you pay interest for this money that is created out of thin air. This is the system you are defending. This is the system you are fighting for. You are trying hard to ensure your own slavery!

Arabs are the enemy, Moslems are the enemy because Islam rejects usury. If they have their way, the world will be free from the true tyrants called the bankers. Wake up and reject interest. Jesus turned the tables of money changers. He was killed. Yet you do nothing. You are still supporting his enemies.

You think a dictator does not represent the people. The US government does not represent the people, too. There are only two parties both supported by the banking and wall street interests. They make sure all candidates bow to them before they can be presented to the people. And the people think they are electing their president. President does what the bankers want. If you still think otherwise, you are blind and deaf. For a century, with the help of FED, the wealth of American people have been plundered while the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. It is not a coincidence. It is a deliberate attempt to keep the masses under control so that while average Joe fights for his daily bread he does not have time to think and ask the important questions.

As George Carlin said - They own you:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ

This is what Israel is about. It was created by Zionist bankers to fight those who reject usury. Jews are their pawns, just like you are. They are using religion to brainwash you, to use you. They want to keep you occupied with problems that does not matter. While you are concerned about Israel's safety, you forget about your own slavery.

Israel is not likely to exist another 50 years. They might have a leg up on their neighbors by the technology that America has given them but they are vastly outnumbered. As in all of history, the enemy builds to match the threat. The question is: "how much of the rest of the planet is this selfish country of zealots willing to take out as they go down in unprecedented failure?"

Starz,

You have your right to your opinion,and I have the Right to disagree with you.

End of conversation.