You have no idea about Iran's nuclear material. I would bet the government knows volumes more than your D.A. does about Iran so why are you blowin your insane ideas about our Pres?

or our pitiful excuse for a potus will bow to the Iranians and allow them to continue making nuclear weapons -- with an appology and some US cash

Tell your stupid republican talking point propaganda to all of the dead terrorist leaders, Mathuin. I would bet a day of Romney's pay that when our president says he is going to use military force to stop Iran's nuke progress, they are genuinely worried.

...mathuin - I sincerely hope, should war with Iran break out, that you are "right up front" with an M-4 and an 80 lb ruck. You just jump right in there "Rambo"!

"I sincerely hope that if we join a war against Iran"

Then I am sure you sincerely are not concerned about the national debt, right? Are you also sincerely willing to sign up for the military and put your life on the line in such a costly effort? Or are you just another right-wing chicken hawk who loves promoting wars (that we can't afford) as long as someone other than you or your family are fighting them?

Notice the anti-Israel crowd is out in force. Now, it's interesting how they never mention Iran's leadership and their determination to destroy Israel. Why is that? Guess the posters bashing Israel have a stake in seeing the caliphate dominant. Guess they are all for the destruction of women's rights which is what will happen when the Middle East becomes one huge Islamist domination.

As to a war with Iran, interesting how Obama claimed credit for bringing home the troops from Iraq while industriously rattling sabers at Iran at the same time. Guess we can't have a moment in history where Americans aren't engaged in some war or two. Endless wars, that's the ticket.

Rottweilerman: Your bias against Israel is noted. What religion are you a proponent of? Most Islamic countries have stated on many, many occasions that they want Israel destroyed, in fact, it was the Egyptians and a few other anti-jewish countries who started the six day war, the little war where Israel handed them their butts on a plate. Seems all those Arab countries wanted the destruction of Israel and lined up to start the hostilities. It wasn't Israel who started that, however, they did finish it....much to the chagrin of the countries who had figured they could easily destroy her.

There are wars and there are wars. While I never understood the purpose of going into Iraq, other than the psychological need of an insecure president trying to show his Daddy that he is his own man, Iran is a very different ball game.

Ahmadinajad's and the mullah's regime is as irrational as the nazi regime. They have layed out their dogma and there is no reason not to take it at facevalue -- convert the infidels if necessary by force and kill all the jews.

Am repeating this because Redherring's inflammatory comments were collapsed...taking our replies with him.

Most Iranians, especially the young people, genuinely like Americans. It's their leaders, stuck in the 14th Century, and their minions, the Revolutionary Guards, who don't like us. However, if we start bombing...blockbuster or not...the entire population, steeped in 2,500 years of Persian pride, will turn against us. Diplomacy is hard painstaking work, and it's so slow. However, it is in America's best interest. The eventual payoff will be an Iran without nuclear weapons capability and no American dead. Remember all the US lives lost in Iraq, the beheadings, and all the other craziness. For that, fanatics got into power anyway and now control Iraq... Let's not make the same mistake in Iran.

I am with you Ol Doc.

Too many people waving the flag, wanting war, but are they willing to serve, or see their children serve?

Our military has been in a constant state of war for a decade. It is a small, all-volunteer military. Troops and equipment wear out quickly. Many troops make the ultimate sacrifice. People need to understand that, before calling for more war--especially those who have never served, or decline to serve.

r-l-h

MSG, USA (Ret)

Mathuin, as somebody who is a 20 year veteran of service in both Vietnam and the 1st Gulf War, judging by your comments I can safely rest assured that you have never served in the military and if you did it was never in a combat zone. To those like me who have served and sacrificed in combat, we do not refer to our having served in "police actions". When in a combat situation and you are scared to death when bullets are flying and your friends are being wounded and dying all around you, I can assure you it is WAR and it is quite real! So save yourself the embarrassment of making foolish comments like that unless you have walked in the shoes that I and my comrades, brothers and sisters in arms from whatever service did! And as a combat vet, I can assure you that the last thing I want is to see and/or participate in another war. Two was far too many but that does not mean that I am not extremely proud of my service. I and others took an oath to..."uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States from all enemies foreign and domestic". I take that oath as seriously today as I did all those years ago and would do so in a heartbeat if I had to and was called upon to do so. I may not like or agree with the reasons, but I would still do so. I love my country that much! My apologies to others for the rambling. I just have a slight intolerance for ignorance on some others part.

I would bet a day of Romney's pay that when our president says he is going to use military force to stop Iran's nuke progress, they are genuinely worried.

Yea, because he won't bother to get approval from Congress first ... LOL ... sorry couldn't resist.

...our pitiful excuse for a potus will bow to the Iranians and allow them to continue making nuclear weapons...

mathuin:

While I'm not exactly a huge Obama fan, I don't think what we are seeing on the surface is necessarily what is truly going on. Behind the scenes, I believe that the calculation is that a showdown with Iran is more or less inevitible and that the only question is whether that showdown occurs sooner rather than later. In Isreal it was reported that our military leaders had approached Netanyahu with details about a weapons package that they felt the Israelis would need to carry out a successful strike against Iran's nuclear capability. This package included "bunker buster" bombs as well as tankers for the refueling of Israeli jets which are currently incapable of making the round-trip to Iran. Other reports have it that the US is frantically working to increase the capability of the "bunker buster" bombs as the Iranians have moved some of their facilities out of reach of the existing ones. If these reports are true, than in my opinion, the approach that the Obama administration has adopted is the correct one. It allows time for the sanctions to work, which obviously is the ideal, but also allows time for the US and Israel to better prepare should a military option be deemed necessary.

SI

Hey Mathuin since you are obviously so enthusiastic and “patriotic”, why don't you pack you and your family up and head to the nearest recruiting station so that you can witness up close and personal the new fireworks the Military Industrial Complex has designed to extend peace and democracy to foreign countries that just won’t hand their oil, resources and sovereignty to us. We can help institute the Patriot Act and National Defense Authorization Act in their countries so that they will really know what freedom is all about. After all, the term peace is synonymous with the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA when they hear we are coming to provide them freedom. Maybe we can incorporate them too. And Vietnam has worked out so well for us that they are begging us to come back and put up military bases there.

If you noticed we are probably the most popular country around the world, you know, the shining beacon on the hill. Instead of joining the army, why don't you put on an American flag shirt and visit those lucky countries our military has visited. You could be our ambassador and walk around any middle eastern country and watch the throngs of people who will come up and shower you with hugs and flowers for all the good will our country has bestowed upon them. You may go deaf from hearing them enthusiastically chant, USA, USA, USA. Makes you proud to be an American doesn’t it?

I sincerely hope that if we join a war against Iran, it will be a real war and not some 'police action' like Viet Nam or Afghanistan!

Can you please define for the forum what a "real war" consists of?

Tape a big red, white, and blue bow to the bunker buster and send it to Israel as an early Hanukkah gift. Better yet, sell the thing to them for twice what it took to make. Use proceeds to pay down our national debt.

Let them duke it out with Iran. We can provide support and keep other nations off their back, but no direct involvement. We can't afford it. We should save our resources for when we get directly attacked.

YEAH!!! Impeach Obama and Bush for destroying this country!!!

The fact that Obama said to quit the bluster and then his administration lets it be known that we are preparing, makes it an outright threat of military action if they don't quit the BS. Contrary to the Republican propaganda, Obama is showing surprising intestinal fortitude on this issue. He is beginning to get his 'sea legs' in Washington, which bodes well for his second term. The only way Obama could possibly lose 2012 is if the Republicans actually field a candidate.

Gentlemen, for starters... I will lay out the facts, and you take it from there!

Israel started the nuclear race in the Middle East.

Tell me how many countries did Iran attack the last 30 years, and how many countries did Israel attack ove rthe same time period? These are the facts. I can assure you that any attack on iran will hasted the demose of Isreal by 5-10 years. it will have great deal of difficulty surviving in the NEW MIDDLE EAST. See how soon Egypt will break diplomatic relations with Israel...

Problem is Nataniahu, and obviously the people who elected him, clearly he was a convivred criminal in israel. need I say more?

The professor

Here is how we solve multiple problems at one time. First, let's all agree we want to downsize our nuclear arsenal. We don't need so many bombs anymore. Second, we don't want to spend a lot of money doing it. Third, Iran is a threat. They want to build a bomb and drop it on Isreal. At least, that's what it sounds like if you listen to them. So, easy. We downsize our arsenal by nuking Iran, and then don't replace the warheads. Cheap, and effective.

Karaoke Jesus (and others): if the United States is to get into another war in the middle East, whether it is with Iran, Syria or whoever, it should only be after a Declaration of War is issued by the Congress. Let the chickenhawks put forth a declaration of war, rather than just talking points for the pundits.

to Knine and the other "impeach Obama" groups: you really do need to know your law. The SCOTUS has repeatedly pointed out that the Supreme law of the land is the US Constitution AND TREATIES. So, when US troops are made subject to being commanded by an allied military leader (as happened in WWI, WWII, and in Korea, and Vietnam, and Iraq 1, and Iraq II, and Afghanistan, and against Libya) there is nothing impeachable about it.

The fact remains, he is a black moderate/liberal Democrat and thats why you don't like him. The exact same actions taken by a white conservative Republican would not call forth cries of "impeach him." Get over it. You only have to endure his presidency for 5 1/2 more years. Then you might be able to have a Republican in the White House, if you can come up with a candidate who is not an idiot.

mathuin...

Real War??

What kind of sick f*ck are you....

Dennis-816242: I agree with you. The Iranians really want to see what a nuclear war is like. Fine, declare war on the United States, start shooting at our warships. They will find out that receiving nuclear warheads can make for a really bad day.

And if we decide to bomb Iran, I say we should go nuclear. I say if we have 'em, use 'em. What use are they if we never use them. We can always drill through the glass.

So if we should impeach Obama and prosecute him for all the deaths caused by the Iraq and Afhganistan wars since hes been in office, what should we do to george bush who should not of been president in the first place who started the wars illegally and the murdered people of his 8 years in office. It will have to be at least double the punishment of bush would you not say?

mathuin,

"Any clash with Iran will either see the use of some pretty sophisticated 'new' technology"

The technology is not really all that new. Such "bunker busters" were first developed for use during the first Gulf War in 1991 to 1992 for use against Saddam Hussein's Command, Control, and Communications bunker, and they were used for just that purpose. This particular one is probably just a follow-up on that one.

Does anyone really think Israel should sit back and let a self proclaimed enemy bent on their total destruction develop the weapons they need to do it!!! The Iranian leadership has stated publicly, multiple times that they do not believe that Israel has any right to exist and that it is their mission to wipe Israel off the map. Does anyone really expect the Israelis to sit back and let them develop nuclear weapons to do it with.

The recent Iranian releases regarding their work on their Fordo nuclear enrichment facility makes it pretty clear that they are looking at more than civilian nuclear power. Their claim that the 20% enriched uranium they are producing is only for a research reactor is an obvious lie. This is because they have already enriched many time the amount of uranium needed to fuel this research reactor to this higher level. The only reason for this massive production of 20% enriched uranium is as a precursor to further enrichment to weapons grade. The IAEA estimates that Iran has enough uranium stock to make enough highly enriched uranium to fuel approximately 15 good sized nuclear weapons.

The Iranian efforts towards installing new generation centrifuges capable of far more rapid enrichment of uranium also clearly indicates their plans to develop nuclear weapons. Since they already have far more 20% enriched uranium than they need for peaceful purposes, the only reason for upgrading a facility designed for higher level enrichment is to facilitate production of weapons grade material. Once they have these new centrifuges installed, the time they will need to produce weapons grade material will be uncomfortably short. It ill be to the point that they could have the material produced before we could plan and execute a strike on the facility to try and stop them. In addition, this facility was built well underground, making it very hard to take out and also clearly indicating its military purpose. Peaceful nations do not build facilities like this deep underground and deny IAEA inspectors access to the facility if their purpose is peaceful. In addition, if they really had nothing to hide (i.e. were not working on weapons) they would let the IAEA inspectors into any of their facilities any time they wanted. The fact that they won't clearly tells me they are hiding something.

It is time to stop screwing around and allowing the Iranians to stall with the hollow promise of talks. None of the many rounds of talks to date have resulted in any progress on getting them to stop. They have no intention of changing their plans to develop nuclear weapons and only military action will stop them.

IF this becomes necessary (and I emphasize "IF") why send pilots, and 30,000 pound "bunker buster" super-weapons in the bomb bays of $2 Billion Stealth Bombers, and the hundreds of other support aircraft necessary to take out Iran's air defenses in advance of the strike, all in an attempt to partially destroy Iran's vast and widely dispersed nuclear facilities and set-back its efforts to obtain nuclear weapons?

It's not necessary to directly risk a single American or Allied military forces life.

Instead simply inform Iran's leaders, publicly and with absolute clarity, that if Iran continues its enrichment work beyond a NEAR DATE CERTAIN, but a date known only to the United States and its Military Allies, that nuclear program will be stopped without Iran's cooperation ....and the military target of all of the bombs and the missiles will be Iran's ruling Mullahs and political leadership! "Cut off the head of the snake, and the body will die."

Inform Iran that the attacks on leadership will be done by tens of thousands of high explosive stand-off cruise missiles and remotely piloted drone vehicles carrying 'smart' missiles. Tell them that the attacks will continue daily, and will not cease until Iran's entire leadership has been destroyed; or until Iran's remaining leadership renounces in the General Assembly of the UN all further nuclear enrichment work and begins dismantling its enrichment facilities, supervised by an unfettered team of UN Inspectors.

And if Iran should stop dismantling those facilities at any time -- even for one day -- before they are all completely removed, the cruise missile and drone attacks on Iran's leadership will begin again immediately.

If Iran is in fact a "rational actor", there is nothing which quite focuses the attention of a rational belligerent as the guaranteed certainty that if they persist in their belligerence ... they will die.

JonSmith,

News Flash for you: Bush is no longer President. You can no longer impeach him, idiot.

Knine........You have been reading to many emails that put forth information as being factual. Not one thing in you post is backed by any credible source of information. I am sure you are right, but just help me to find where this statements can be verified.

People can have a belief based on a gut feeling of how they see and feel about anything. Hell, I have a lot of gut feelings about a whole lot of things that I can not prove or disprove. The real danger comes
when someone else with these gut feelings starts creating information that is not true and calling it fact to get others to believe and pass it on as being a true educational/reportable fact or comment.

They do a disservice to the "point they are trying to make", create emotional confrontations from distortions of half truths to flat out lies. They suspect others feel the same way on a issue but might not be able to convince others of it's validity and in turn they rationalize what they know is made up by telling themselves, "they will thank me latter" AND because they know in there gut that they are right, it then makes sense to them THAT "any means justifies the ends".

How many battlefields have been created throughout history as a consequence to this attempt to make a point?

Read this article from Thomas Sowell (before Super Tuesday) before you even consider to vote this November. Forward it to all that you know:

____

Many people are looking to the many primary elections on March 6th -- "Super Tuesday" -- to clarify where this year's Republican nomination campaign is headed.

It may clarify far more than that, including the future of this nation and of Western civilization. If a clear winner with a commanding lead emerges, the question then becomes whether that candidate is someone who is likely to defeat Barack Obama.

If not, then the fate of America -- and of Western nations, including Israel -- will be left in the hands of a man with a lifelong hostility to Western values and Western interests.

President Obama is such a genial man that many people, across the ideological space, cannot see him as a danger.

For every hundred people who can see his geniality, probably only a handful see the grave danger his warped policies and ruthless tactics pose to a whole way of life that has given generation after generation of Americans unprecedented freedom and prosperity.

The election next November will not be just another election, and the stakes add up to far more than the sum of the individual issues. Moreover, if reelected and facing no future election, whatever political constraints may have limited how far Obama would push his radical agenda will be gone.

He would have the closest thing to a blank check. Nothing could stop him but impeachment or a military coup, and both are very unlikely. A genial corrupter is all the more dangerous for being genial.

KNINE

Take your pills, sit down, find a blanket and turn on the tv.

Obama only cares about keeping the lid on until after the election. Nothing else matters to him except getting re-elected, and the potential of Israel being hit with an atomic bomb is not high on his list of concerns.

Ed NavDoc - TET-68, Cua Viet, 9" shrapnel slash in my left lower back. Navy Corpman wraps bandage around waist putting intestines back inside me until I get Med Evac'ed to NavHosp Danang and U.S.S. Repose - DAMN it sure didn't seem like no Police Action to me????? I always SALUTE any Navy Corpsman or Doctor I see, so to you today, I SALUTE You. One of yours saved my life in 1968. Let those who served decide.

Read this article from Thomas Sowell...

Thomas Sowell is a joke for a columnist. His articles have little to no actual evidence to support his claims. He works through fear mongering, and not through factual evidence. Anyone who pays attention to the news can see right through practically anything he writes about.

Iran is a Theocracy run by old men. The Revolutionary Guard (Mostly College Students at the time when they stormed our embassy) are enjoying there positions of power.

They have a lot of problems....the biggest being that the majority of the Persian populace is under 30 years of age and probably the best educated in all to the Mid East. The old men and Rev Guard are watching Syria and are attempting a balancing act to stay in power while allowing more freedom of choice.

Sanctions are curtailing choices with the rise of a very illegal black market being run by educated college students. Once you break one law, it gets easier to break more and challenge the powers that be.

Say what you will about Obama...he is far from perfect....but this article sounds like a page from Teddy Roosevelt. Obama says no war, we want diplomacy while and un-named high source describes our newest bomb and what it can do..........Ahhhhh yes...."Walk softly, but CARRY A VERY BIG STICK"

The Mullahs may be fanatics and I do think they are, but they have a Tiger by the Tail and I am betting they will blink first and back down. If they do not.......Obama will use the stick.

A Veteran

WELCOME HOME MY BROTHER, WELCOME HOME !!!!!

1 Inf. Nam 68 / 69

bob

In the long run it would be cheaper for the UN to build and operate its own nuclear energy facilities in Iran and other unstable nations.

If the UN gives them nuclear power, their government cannot use energy production as an excuse for weapons manufacture. If it is unacceptible to us for threatening countries to posess nukes, we should have taken out the Soviets the second they stole the technology in the first place.

Tell you what, if you want war you better get on that front line, cause you ain't making that call for me or any kid out there today. No, your making that call for you and only you, you don't get the right to make that choice for everyone else. Just yourself. Still think it should happen? DO YOU WANT WAR?

All of you that liked Mathuin's post, enlist now. I wanna see you put your money where your mouth is.

"Dogma Bites", No I don't think so. Besides, anytime the intelligence is applied, it has nothing to do with the current administration. This is just as bad as "Military Intelligence". What a joke.

bob1/28 - And to you my Brother, Welcome Home and Thank You for your Service. I wrote something in 1967, please go to www.riflewarrior.com/vietnam.html It was for you and all of us over there. Peace.

@mygirl1

My opposion to Israel is based on fact...their country was founded on lies, deceit and murder. Their entire history is steeped in treachery and murder. With a country like Israel as an ally you don't any other enemies. They are a bllod-sucking leech of a country, run by murderous blood-thirsty leaders...they are just as bad as Iran...well maybe worse, because with Iran you know where they stand with the Jews...they will smile and shake your hand while the other hand is on the knife in your back.

We won't do war with Iran! Obama has already got a taste of that butt puddin, he'll be on his knees suckin and lickin his lips.

Veteran, I sincerely thank you for comments. I'm sure I can speak for 99.9% of all combat medical people when I say we did not think of ourselves as special or as heroes. I flew as medical aircrew on Marine UH-1 Hueys from a helicopter carrier off the coast of Da Nang, . I, like others just tried to do the job I was trained to do to the best of my ability. Sometimes it was enough and sometimes it was not. I am still haunted by the ones where it was not and I am still haunted by those demons. To me, the truest heroes are those that made the ultimate sacrifice to God and country and did not make it back alive. I do however salute all vets past and present whether they have seen combat or not. Service is still service no matter how you look at it! Semper Fi my brothers and sisters!

HM1/FMF USN/RET HM NEC 8452/8404 1972 - 1993

Ed-NavDoc - Every Medic and Corpsman I've ever met say how they are haunted by the ones they couldn't save. All I can say my Brother is I know the horror will never go away, but try and think of the ones who DID make it. I ask my self every day if I have lived life in a way that honors all of those who did not come home. And I give thanks every day to the Corpsman who was there for me. I swear, if I could, I would take your horrors into myself so that you could find the peace you deserve. Maybe them and my own demons would get into such turmoil that they would cancel each other out. You hang in there. Peace. God Bless all our Troops, past, present and future.

What can I say but thank you my friend, my brother. Believe it or not I actually learned to put many of my demons to rest during my stays in Antarctica. I think it was the peace and the solitude that helped make the difference. Still sometimes, in the still of the night, the nightmares come. But only rarely now. God bless and good night.

David-717708 was spotted saying....

Yea, because he won't bother to get approval from Congress first ... LOL ... sorry couldn't resist.

Uh, you might want to actually know what you are talking about before posting... The House, (part of congress) has already passed a resolution authorizing and requiring military force to be used to prevent Iran from acquiring or threatening the US or it's allies with nuclear weapons. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/05/20125182157963338.html

Yea, use of diplomacy before resorting to violence is definitely "weakness".

Ask Osama bin Ladin and Muammar Gaddafi (along with countless other dead terrorists) how weak President Obama has been with his decision making against enemies of the United States. I'm sure they'd tell you all about it, except for that inconvenience of being dead.

Another stupid troll post.

Yea, use of diplomacy before resorting to violence is definitely "weakness".

"We, the German Fuhrer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe.

We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again.

We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe.

My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honor. I believe it is "peace for our time." Go home and get a nice quiet sleep"

-Neville Chamberlain

September 30, 1938

jtran007

Obama will sit and do nothing. Hes weak president.

Tell that to the following dead or captured terrorists leaders:

1. Osama bin Laden
2. Anwar al-Awlaki
3. Abu Hafs al-Shahri
4. Atiyah 'Abd al-Rahman
5. Ilyas Kashmiri
6. Ammar al-Wa'ili
7. Abu Ali al-Harithi9.
8. Ali Saleh
9. Harun Fazul was killed.
10. Younis al-Mauritani in Quetta.
11. Tehrik e-Taliban
12. Noordin Muhammad
13. Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan
14. Saleh al-Somali
15. Abdallah Sa'id
16. Abdul Ghani Berada
17. Muhammad Haqqani
18. Lashkar-e Jhangvi
19. Qari Zafar
20. Hussein al-Yemeni
21. Abu Ayyub al-Masri
22. Abu Omar al-Baghdadi
23. Sheik Saeed al-Masri
24. Hamza al-Jawfi

Your comment is both uninformed and pathetic. Try extracting your head from Limbaugh's a$$.

Steven B - I appreciate the historic tour. I also appreciate your patriotism and dedication to doing what is best for our nation. You are of course enlisting in the United States Army to head up the attack on Iran, correct? Just imagine yourself rushing toward the heathen enemy with your cross in one hand, M-4 in the other, 80 lb. rucksack on your back and 40 lbs. of body armor...

...unless of course, this is all cackling of the Great American Chicken Hawk.

I appreciate the historic tour.

You're welcome. Now, what did you learn from the lesson?

You are of course enlisting in the United States Army

I already served. US Navy. Got the DD-214s. Probably before you were even a twinkle in yer mommy's eye.

Now, how about you?

#3.6

Maybe you should work on spelling and grammar in your free time? It would be to your benefit.

wars started by Republican Presidents always tend to work out well.

Yes, like Kennedy did in Vietnam. Oh, wait...

Ol_Doc, as per your list above I most certainly will not thank Obama. I will however give heart Well Dones to the CIA, U.S. Special Operations Command, and last but certainly not least SEAL Team 6. They did all the legwork. They gathered the intelligence. And most of all put their lives on the line! Obama only said go for OBL and probably a few other high value targets on the list. The rest he probably was told after the fact as the ground commanders on site were most likely authorized to give approval.

HM1/FMF USN/RET 1972 - 1993

Allot of credit going to Obama for getting the terrorists. Wait. Obama didn't get anything. The system that got bin Laden was put in place by Bush. Obama watched it on TV. It's time for people to stop making up crap to support our President. I wanted nothing but the best for Obama when I placed my vote for him. Unfortunately, I have been greatly disappointed in his vision of thecountry. I am not a religious person, but I think Obama's biggest mistake is his attack on christian religions while pandering to Islam. This could be the nail in the coffin. If you don't know what I mean, you will in the next couple of weeks. And our mainstream press is complicit in keeping the facts of this matter from the public.

Steven B......you said:

Quote.....Yes, like Kennedy did in Vietnam. Oh, wait.........EndQuote

Actually, the Republic of Vietnam (under Diem) was a product of the EISENHOWER administration (See: http://www.pbs.org/battlefieldvietnam/history/index.html & Eisenhower's Letter of Support to Ngo Dinh Diem, October 23, 1954 at http://vietnam.vassar.edu/overview/doc5.html).

Furthermore, the "domino theory", which was the geopolitical underpinning of the Vietnam War was first proposed as policy by and during the EISENHOWER administration. To wit:

Eisenhower Quote......Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences.......EndQuote

The Kennedy administration can be faulted for continuing and even expanding our involvement in Vietnam. JFK cannot, however, be faulted for beginning that involvement. So, technically, Carl We's point is correct.

Quote.....Hoping to prevent communism from spreading to South Vietnam, President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent American troops to South Vietnam to advise the South Vietnamese military in its war against the South Vietnamese revolutionaries and their North Vietnamese supporters. President John F. Kennedy continued sending advisors to South Vietnam during his administration.......http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1583......EndQuote

Do you, Steven B, believe that our Vietnam War was a mistake ?

Obama will sit and do nothing. Hes weak president.

Understatement of the year.

Coracii Obama didn't get Daffy. It was the Libyans who got him.

It was the Navy seals who got bin Laden, not Obama.

It was extremely foolish for Obama to send the seals in with a kill order for bin Laden. One always tries to capture the opposing general to obtain from him information. Obama ordered a kill mission for bin Laden from the start. Obama ordered the disposal of the body before the DNA evidence was in that that body was that of bin Laden. That is if in fact you want to believe that a DNA test was done and that the DNA test came back positive for a body that was bin Laden and if you want to be that the body dumped in the water was actually that of bin Laden.

So Steven B...

Since you're such a fan of war why dont you get an M16 and head off to Iran...

And each of those terrorists have been replaced. You forget what the Afghans did to the Russians? Everytime the Russians massacred a village or killed a head man, they just chose a new one and went back after the Russians until it got to costly for the Russians and they got out.

All that history you forgot? Same is happening here. The Afghans have never been conquered and with the Pakistanis helping them we are wasting blood and time there. Carpet bomb the area and drag everything out. Hit Iran with everything and keep the straits clear.

Obama is a fool. Anyone who forgets history is destined to repeat it. And here we are repeating it.

Ol_Doc, you rattle off that list of names so readily. Are you related?

bookworm12,

First, the Seals had an order to capture bin Laden if possible. The seals felt threatened and blew his sorry ass away. They took pictures and they also took a DNA sample. It was him, so don't be an idiot and think it was not.

American Socialist WE are waiting for you to tell your idol to get the hell out of Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea and Nato. Then we take care of Iran and go home.

alan290 Alan review the tapes. The first tapes of the event said it was a capture/kill order. The revised tapes stated that the order was from the start a kill order. I blew up when I heard that. I verified that it was a strictly kill order. Review the tapes and command.

2 May 2011 – WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, ...

If it was just a kill order, we are probably better off. Just think what we would be going through with him as a captive... Hundreds of Americans would probably be kidnapped and held for exchange with that SOB. They did get a ton of records when they raided the compound, and we will probably benefit more from that than the small amount of information they would have to beat out of bin Laden. He would probably not have given any information anyway.

Steven B

Kennedy did NOT start full engagement in Vietnam. That was done by LBJ after the military industrial comp;ex had JFK assassinated because hi\e did not want to got to war there..

bookworm12

Bush put out the Dead or Alive.....but it is best he is dead in an unmarked un-recoverable grave. A Martyr we do not need.

ol doc - My weapon of choice was an M-60 Machinegun, has a sound you never forget and can pick out the rest of your life.

Ed Nav Doc - HM1/FMF - I KNEW it.

SingBiker - You are most correct, in a Top Secret, just released, document that President Kennedy signed, he wanted 1,000 Advisors out of Vietnam by the end of '63, and completely out within the next 12 months. It was Johnson's war.

JFK was assasinated because he wanted to do the same thing Ron Paul wants to do....shut down the Federal Reserve.

Friends, you underestimate Obama and Bush. During their administration of the country was carried out at least four successful coups and four successful military operations, which are known to all. The loss of U.S. soldiers in these companies is very low, even by modern standards.

Ol_Doc, every time the U.S. announces a reward for the head of a terrorist, I am reminded of William Stranix from the movie "Under Siege" and Travis Dane from the continuation of the same movie.

bulldog dude - And YOU are ALSO correct. Kennedy was going to do away with the Federal Reserve and already had $6,000,000,000 in silver certificates printed. He wanted to go to the silver standard. The clash with the FED and his un-willingness to escalate the Vietnam War is what got him Assassinated. And everybody on these vines, you bet your asses I'm a consipracy theorist. If you believe the Warren Commission report, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

A Veteran

Yep, my FMF experiences with the Green Machine was in the early part of my career. My Antarctic OAE experience on the Ice was toward the end. Would not have traded either for the world!

Because Iran has supporters like Russia and China.

Can anybody say proxy war?

Well Ahmadickhead seems to be a foolish man...so does the "supreme" leader.

Israel will take out Iran's nuclear sites. they will tell us when they are on the way, but not give us advance notice. If Russia and China want to go after Israel they will be taken out too, every battle is Israel's LAST in their minds. Israel has Fleet Ballistic Missle Submarines. They put fear into everybody, you don't know where they are and they can rain down hell in 15 minutes.

Israel is nothing but a bag of hot air, pushing for a war to be fought and paid for by the USA. They won't do anything. They were whipped by Hezbollah in Lebanon. Without American supplied air power, Israel would be a third rate power and be forced to obey internetional laws and rules.

To the posters who keep claiming Iran is threatening to wipe Israel off the map, you are nothing but liars. Iran has stated clearly, they will not be the first to start a war and will attack only if attacked. Iran knows their first attack would be their last attack and they do not have a death wish. You people read too much Israeli propaganda.

No more wars for Israel.

Iran would be foolish to take on ..Israel.

Would that be because that is the only nation in the Middle East with WMD capabilities

(nuke, chem & bio) ?

You will truly be left behind...

Why dont we just target Aneedadinnajacket? This might solve a whole bunch of problems at once!

What the huck do you mean. Where has Iran been wanting to take on the US? I see, ""We would be happy if this thing is resolved peacefully, if Iran decides to stop its nuclear program," he said according to the Telegraph. "To stop it, to dismantle its facility in Qom, and to stop enriching uranium."" Prove it. Iran says they are not seeking a nuclear weapon. The two things that probably would have presented all this Mid-East turmoil are the only two things never tried by this or any other administration. They have always asked for us to pull our troops out of their country and leave them the f alone. We have tried neither of those. Instead it has been war, sanctions, threats, everything else but a possible peaceful solution. If those people did not feel threatened by the only country to have used nuclear weapons and their armies in their lands, maybe they would already have had their own revolution to transform the country as they like. They have been taught Islam all their lives and now we want to bomb it out. What makes you think they would accept that. I would rather die in my old shack that be forced to bow down some man who thought I should think like he does.

It seems to me they have been taking on the US and Israel through state sponsored terrorism. It IS extremely stupid to threaten to attack out ships and posture to try to eliminate sanctions that they are racking up.

Wait a minute....

Mr. Pannnetetia just stated that he, as the Secretary of Defense, would need to get International (U.N.) approval for using U.S. military forces.

Wow, another great choice for filling a Cabinet postion, Mr. Obama.

First gut the military by cutting spending.....then "ASK FOR APPROVAL" from the U.N. BEFORE use of military forces.

ANOTHER reason this Democrat will NOT VOTE for Mr. Obama's re-election.

Given the fact that Muslim cultures have never apologized or condemned the acts of violence from their habitual aggressors I would say yes," Drop that bunker monster..

So funny all these comments on what each one of you would do. Not a one of you have run for any government office and certainly you have no up to date knowledge(CIA, or any other intelligance info from any org.) So when both Bushes got international backing, it was wrong? or only when Obama does it?......ya dufas. Oh yeah, "another reason why I won't vote for Obama." You won't vote for him because you are racist. Try to come up with a real reason...you can't. Everything is getting better except for repubs trying to take the country down just to get Obama out of the whitehouse so the rich can go back to taking the rest of your money. If you are not a millionaire, concerning your own interst, you should be voting for Dems. If you are a greedy millionaire, I said greedy, then vote for repubs. DXon't think out each issue, just respond with chosen words for you by Newt Gingrich word list. The list of words republicans get everyday to get you to jump up and down for them and not think.

""What good fortune for governments that the people do not think."- Adolf Hitler."

I do not see the big positive point to starting WW3 at all.. Millions will die and we will once again be holding the bag.. These Islam-o-Fascists seem eager to incite war but not so eager to poke the tiger and get into a real war with the US.. What if we just told Russia and China to go ahead and split Iran 50/50 as long as it would bring stability to the area.. Calling Israel weak and saying they lost the local fight is silly.. I think they have shown to be very prudent and not wipe the hostile population off the map.. Palestinians keep accusing them of genocide but if Israel wanted to they could rain Armageddon on them and that would be genocide..

Hey, fellow readers ----- Does anyone know of a weapon system, that can actually deliver a single 30,000 lb. bomb other than the B-52, B-1, and B-2 ? These weapons are held solely by the U.S.A.F. and would be flown by U.S. pilots. Other aircraft (C-130, C-141, C-17, etc.) can carry such a load, but would only be available to drop a device by parachute and besides, they fly WAY TOO SLOW to successfully penetrate the Iranian airspace and evade Iranian defenses.

Don't need no 30,000 lb. bomb to take out Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities. 2 facilites x 2 nukes each should do it. And you'd better believe Israel knows exactly where they are and what is needed to take them out. Turn the mountains under which they are hidden into glass and slag craters.

Ruken - Because Iran has supporters like Russia and China. Can anybody say proxy war?

They would not know what a "Proxy War" is if it bite off their ____(fill in the blank)_____.

The Russian Federation and Chinese use Fundamentalist Islamic Iran as their "Proxy Fighter"; Fundamentalist Islamic Iran uses the Islamic Jihadists Worldwide as their "Proxy Fighters" as funded by the Mandatory Islamic Tithes (Trillions USDs per year) from the 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide.

The Strategic Goals of the Russian Federation, Chinese, and Fundamentalist Islamic Iran has been to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Resources) at the Middle East, Africa, Asia, (currently expanding to South and Central Americas, including negotiating the stationing of Iranian IRBMs), etc..

Before anyone wants to start something, how about waiting about less than 3 months so that most of us can go back on Retirement again (Never to be Recalled to Active Duty again as "Too Old").

And by the way good luck attempting to drop one "Bunker Buster" on the previous hole created by another "Bunker Buster", then drop another and another in the same hole. As just like the other previous "Experts" stated the wrong depth of the Iranian Facilities*; not later than June 2012, the Iranians will be dug in so deep they might be feeling the heat from Hades.

*Kind of like the so called "Experts" (that never worked in the Nuclear (Weapons) Physics field (experience not academics or theory)) that said in 2010 that the Iranians will not have a Nuclear weapons capability for decades. As they did not count the fact that the Russian Federation did the hard part, processing tons of Iranian rock (uranium ore) into the metal form of uranium, with the Iranians having the current capability to further enrich that metal form of uranium into weapons grade. And based on the Nuclear Weapons designs used during WWII, the Iranians do not need plutonium. These so called "Experts" fail to realize that the Father of the Pakistanis Nuclear Weapons Program has been on a very long vacation at Iran for quite a while now (so the Iranians do not have to do "experiments" or trial and error). And by the way you do NOT need a Megaton Nuclear Weapon to take out a Major European or US City, a Kiloton Tactical Nuclear Weapon in an airburst will do that also (Europe currently in range of the Iranian IRBMs and the ICBMs that they bought from the North Koreans as shipped thru Bejing China 2010 can actually reach the US and Canada.). Not to say that the Fundamentalist Islamic Iranians are not too smart; but, it would be much easier for them to buy Pakistanis Nuclear Weapons, turn them into MIRVs (with many decoys to defeat any US or US Ally ABMs), and then put these on their IRBMs and ICBMs along with 21st Century GNCs and countermeasures manufactured by the Chinese and Russian Federation (the Iranians already built their IRBM and ICBM Missile Silos, similar to the previous US "Cold War" Era Missile Silos designed to withstand a direct Nuclear Attack; not counting all the ones on mobile TELs.).

The last US Weapon made to destroy underground Facilities that deep was almost completely deleted from written records* in accordance with the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, SALT, START, etc.; the Earth Penetrator Warhead for the Pershing II Missiles as designed to kill the hardened underground USSR Command Centers, as well as attacking the USSR Ural Mountain Complex, similar to what the Iranians have done to the Iranian Mountains.

*You cannot do a memory wipe on all the people associated with that Earth Penetrator warhead that "did not exist" or "was never manufactured" as deployed with the 56th Field Artillery (Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces).

jungle jim-1365067 - Why dont we just target Aneedadinnajacket? This might solve a whole bunch of problems at once!

Shows just how much you do not know about Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. The Ayatollahs have their hands so far up President Ahmadinejad's arse that they can make his mouth move. The Ayatollahs control everything at Fundamentalist Islamic Iran.

The time for any "Military Options" has long past. That window of opportunity was already closing in 2010 when the US Ally Saudi Arabia was demanding US Military or Israel Military Actions; then later that same year begging for US Military or Israelis Military Actions.

david-475776Shows just how much you do not know about Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. The Ayatollahs have their hands so far up President Ahmadinejad's arse that they can make his mouth move. The Ayatollahs control everything at Fundamentalist Islamic Iran.

You are so correct, but sometimes there needs to be a catalyst for some time of action to take place.

jungle jim-1365067 - You are so correct, but sometimes there needs to be a catalyst for some time of action to take place.

So you send in US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams attached to SAD/SOG to terminate President Ahmadinejad and they fail and are possibly caught creating more excuses for Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. Or the Teams succeed and then all the Fundamentalist Islamic Iranian finger waving starts demanding that the Islamic Jihadists Worldwide strike, and then he is replaced with another Ayatollah approved puppet.

What are the gains and losses?

Do not even say precision airstrike, I know better than that from actually doing Targeting and Target Damage Assessments.

I can see the writing on the wall:

Secretary of Defense Panetta on a special visit to the U.N. headquaters: "I would like permission from the U.N. Security Council (Council is composed of five permanent members — China, France, Russian
Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States) to use bunker buster bombs on Iran's nuclear facilities and ask for a quick vote."

Hmmmm.....request denied.

The bomb is hardly an issue...The latest LASER

Stop being stupid

IRAN is waiting (just like the Christians)

FOR another dumb-ass too save them

Problem is...they will get virgins if they try too bring this on (and they will die for virgins)

SO SAD

I saw GAS PRICES GO UP....20 cents in one day (today...MARCH 9th, 2012)

OK...screw you and Me also because even If I don't use GAS...* I WILL PAY *

FOOD...and everything else

Totally stupid

I think it is a pretty safe assumption that both the Iraqis and Syrians were fairly sure Israel was "nothing but a bag of hot air" before it took out the nuclear reactors in both the aforementioned countries. Anyone care to place bets on three out of four?

google "Samson Option" you'll get hundreds of hits, and the Israelis have stated this many times since they aquired nukes that if they were going down they would take everyone else with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Samson_Option_(book)

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/the_samson_option_palestine_and_is.html

these arent just assumptions- this has come directly from the mouths of several Israeli leaders.

Agreed, being the first aggressor would be a huge and stupid mistake. Prepare for the worst, but do not throw the first punch. If Iranian leaders know they are DEAD IMMEDIATELY if they attack anyone then they will throw fits and puff up like N. Korea, but never actually do anything.

Ed-NavDoc Yes let the Iranians throw a few bombs at Israeli cities with dirty bombs and make Israeli uninhabitable for the next 100 years, you and EngEsq are quite right. Didn't Chernobyl and the Japanese nuclear accident teach you anything?

let the Iranians throw a few bombs at Israeli cities with dirty bombs and make Israeli uninhabitable for the next 100 years

1) Iran has far more missiles than Israel and could overwhelm their missile defense system. They could demolish Israel today, however retaliation would be just as bad for Iran. The only reason they don't is fear of retaliation. It being a conventional weapon or dirty bomb makes no difference.

2) Jerusalem is a holy city for Muslims too. Making it uninhabitable by radiation would not be in their benefit either. Again, there is no reason for added alarm.

Please use your brain, I know it is hard for those who believe killing Bin Laden was a hoax, but try anyway.

While Iran may have more missles, it does not have Israel's work ethic.

Optomyst, you really missed the point there.

The MOAB was a 25,000 lb bomb that exploded just before impact and people's ears would bleed within 1\2 mile of detonation. Bunker buster is designed to go subterranean through rock, reinforced concrete and explode once deep within target. Kinda designed opposite. MOAB would kill anything above ground and bunker buster would do the same underground hundreds of feet.

Quite a weapon! Glad it is ours! Now obuttwipe wants to cut Military R&D...I guess so his muslim bruthas can catch up with our technology. He's probably already sent them the blueprints!

HOPE FOR CHANGE 2012 ABO

No i didn't. Maybe you did.

Eng Esq, Do you honestly in your mind believe that OSAMA bin Ladin was killed by U.S. Forces, and then not Displayed for the whole world to see ? The Greatest Liar since P.T.Barnum has everyone hoodwinked! No Corpus Delectide, No Case ! Heresay evidence is not allowed in any Court ! ! Dumping the Body at Sea ? Har Har Hardee Har Har ! Why, to get rid of the evidence ? If a few Muslim Terrorist would be pissed off because he didn't get a Muslim burial, Who gives a Rats Behind? This was the best Smoke and Mirror act I have ever witnessed! The Greatest Show on Earth of course was "The Imposter" getting elected! Woe unto us if we repeat the same mistake over again !!!

Ohhhhh...Marceeeeellllllll-2112373..........Bin Laden is alive and hiding in your closet........he is under your bed....he is coming to get you.........tonight...he's gonna getcha!...Booga Booga...! Look ot behind you....what's that noise?..........he's coming to get you!!!!!!!

I'm still puzzling over what delivery system the Israelis have that could drop a 30,000 pound bomb? It makes little sense to ask for the GBU-57 without a way of delivering the package to the recipient.

Their Heron drones are big (737-sized), but only capable of a 1000kg payload, and 30,000 pounds is way over the capability of the F-15s and F-16s in the Israeli inventory. And it's also way over any throw weight I've seen ascribed to Israeli missiles.

Unless they've got a Bear or a B2 stashed away somewhere, it seems an odd request.

The Isreali's not only requested the bomb , but the means to deliver them.

Ed-NavDoc,

You say that you are a US Military Veteran and have seen the horrors of War. Well, so have we and we are worn out and sick of doing the dirty deeds done dirt cheap (paid below minimum wages). There are not very many of us left (survivors), after see post#5.13.

So PLEASE wait at least 3 months more, so that we can all go back on Retirement again. Half of us as Forced Retirements under President Obama's Reduction In Forces of the US Military, the other half (including myself) as Retirement again never to be Recalled again as Too Old.

Again, as far as the Osama Bin Laden termination as a Special Reconnaissance Mission that developed into a Direct Action. You can wait about 20 years to obtain the Mission Videos from the Rescue of Captain Phillips under the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) and The Mission Videos to the C4I Helicopter (Pakistan) to the Video Conferences at Afghanistan (General Petraeus and Bagram AFB), SOC, JSOC (Admiral McRaven), CIA (Leon Penetta), Pentagon, Whitehouse. Pay special attention to the conversations during the 23 minute communications blackout at the Whitehouse. The knowledge of these Missions that General Petraeus and Leon Penetta have is the leverage that they used against President Obama to get their current positions.

As far as the "Bunker Busters" see post #4.16..

And anyone that wants to do something, you go into Iran to do targeting and terminal guidance as part of Special Reconnaissance (not in uniforms). Like US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces did while attached to SAD/SOG at Yemen and Libya. Do NOT volunteer others to do what you refuse to do.

So DAVID...I imagine you know where Bigfoot is hiding too eh?......Glad you were there to see everything for us. What would we do without your secret intelligence....You are worn out from doing military work dirt cheap eh? Bush/Cheney set up the war profiteer system for you to work at 3-4 times the pay once you leave the military . Do the same job for the Blackwater/Haliburton boys(whatever their new name they are hiding under today). Whine about retirement when you can rake in all that Do, Re ,Mi that repubs set up in Iraq/Afgan. Go ahead...sign up and quit whining. For all you people that think you know what is really going on, just sit back with a cup of hot Ovaltine and play an action game called Battleship. Make all the war plans and put them in place without dragging us into another war where thousands of U.S. troops would die and get wounded. You won't even have to use the Iraq oil that you and repubs were going to use to pay for Iraq war. The game is only $10. Alright,...I just sunk your battleship...game over!

Like many of you guessers, I too think I know what the bomb delivery system will be. Pres Obama has kidnapped our nations top carpenters and has them.......(ssshhhhh don't tell anyone else)building a big wooden horse that is hollow inside. Plans to give this as a gift to Iran to have them display next to their nuke facility. Then later when everyone is asleep over there....BOOM!.....................No really ...he is...! I saw it on Fox news....it must be true!

David

I have always had the greatest respect for your postings, as I always seem to learn something new. As such, I had to go back and carefully reread your comments and mine, as you covered multiple postings in 7.12. In going back and carefully rereading the comment in question, I understand where your comment is coming from. Sometimes I have been known to type in a hurry and make off the cuff statements without really thinking about it. But I see your point. As it is, I retired in 1993 and they would not want me back for health reasons anyway. So I guarantee, it will most definitely be more than 3 months. By the way, I myself got caught up in Mr Bill's high tenure rules of the early 90's which stated tat as an E-6 with 20 years that had not made Chief Petty Officer (E-7), I had to go at 20. That suited me fine as me and Mr Bill's military did not see eye to eye anyway! Have a good day Sir.

Wow Ed, you could not make chief in 20 years. I made E5 in 3+ years and my brother made E9, in his 20+ year career. I think if you cannot make E7 in 20 years, you must lack the mental faculties to remain in the service. It was a good rule to get the dead wood out.

Ralph , if it makes you feel superior to make the riridiculous statement you just made, then it just further proves that you are not even worth responding to any further. You really have a problem and I pity you for it.

Bookworm12

I may have misstated myself in post #7 above. I was in no way advocating that Iran will target Israel first. I merely brought it up as a possibility, and sincerely hope that no country is attacked either with nuclear or conventional weapons as that would simply lead to even more unnecessary violence and huge numbers of deaths of innocents on all sides. I do thank you for bringing that to my attention though.

Self loathing is ugly to see.

Dave-1593080 I agree Obama in incapable of letting this country run its own affairs. You will be worried when it costs $500 to fill up your gas tank. The minute that Iran makes any threat no tanker will get insurance and no oil will pass through the straits and you all will wish for $5.00 a gallon gas.

Can-it Squid...

Hey dum mass dave....you think we deserved 911? F U a$$wipe

bulldog I think dave lives on the left coast. We should do what I call Sunami War, you hear and feel the rumble and without notice everything in our path is wiped out.

Hey...........>>>I live on the left coast. Do you honestly think we weren't greatly affected by 9-11? Surely you must be unwell.

My grandaughter's best friend lost both her grandparent's on Flight 11.

Watch it there, bub. A really sensitive subject with me.

It does seem somebody should arm Iran with nuclear missiles for detente, certainly if anybody does premptive strike with hogwash against them.

I don't hate them at all but I'm tired of their winning about the past. We have given them untold billions in military aid but still have to fight their battles.

what hate are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if it's muslims in the first place, then you have the jews. Don't forget the gays, black, latinos immigartion status. it will never stop, because we love to HATE.

I think he was talking about neo-natzi rottweilerman above.

I too am sick of Israel having so much sway over US politics. They are an ally country, not the 51st state that we need to defend like it were our own soil. However, my opinions are not in anyway hateful (hell I'm married to a Jew after all).

Get Your history straight English Dude! What war did an American soldier fight in for Israel?

The six day war -- I don't think so -- just check with Johnson & McNamarra! Israel went solo despite the objections of the U.S.

The Yon Kippur War -- I didn't see any coffins coming back to the U.S. from that war either.

Just give Israel the 'toys' and they will take care of business for the benefit of the entire western industrialized world and humanity at large.

Kind of very different from your 'Iran Lady' diddling around in the Falklands, GWB being on a crusade, and Carter's humanitarianism that brought us the Ayatollahs and a bogged rescue mission.

Now, go sip your tea English dude and maybe you will come back to reality.

It's engineer, actually (as I pointed out above).

Secondly, the leverage that Israel has over our political dialogue is undeniable. We avow to support them if attacked. We provide them weaponry and billions in funding. We don't have to have already fought in a war for them in order to recognize our involvement has long since surpassed mere allies.

Further, you may have mentioned that we are discussing bombing Iran so that they don't have a nuke and pose a threat to Israel. What exactly about that is inconsistent with my above remark? Iran is unable to deploy a bomb to the US, so it isn't about defending US interests.

Are You an RPI alumni? BTW, I didn't know that engineers are esquires -- the engineers I know are generally really full of themselves. They are mathematically inclined and scientifically logical, but fail to realize in analyzing social & political issues that human beings are inherently selfish and power drunk.

Anyhow, in a world economy U.S. interests are no longer limited to the confines of our physical boundaries. Hitler couldn't reach U.S. territory, yet, his regime was a threat to the U.S. The Mullahs can't reach the U.S. by conventional means but they sure can reach it by sponsored terrorism. And, maybe we need to change our definition of terrorism and call government sponsored and/or supported acts, acts of war.

The Mullahs are destabilizing the entire Middle East, which also affects all of Europe. Both regions have been and are vital trading partners of the U.S.

Finally, it is infinitely cheaper and more effective for the U.S. to supply Israel with weapons, technology, and intelligence than to pay billions to Blackwater and other mercenaries. It is naive to believe and argue that the U.S. support of Israel has any significant financial impact on our economy and government debt.

EngEsq So many words and so little meaning. There are 5 million Jews in Israel and about 5 million in the U.S. The population of the U.S. is 335,000,000 where is the political leverage. The political leverage is over there, where they are our watchdog over our oil supply lines. The non floating battleship. All Iran has to do is put one mine in the water and no tanker will sail in or out of the straits and oil will go up to astronomical prices. You prefer to rely on Saudi Arabia to help open and keep oil and free of threats to the oil or would you prefer Israel. A lesson in economics is needed. There is a world wide price for oil. You close off the straits and all oil prices go up the same. Venezuelan oil, Canadian oil, U.S. oil, Uganda Oil, English Oil, Mexican Oil. And when you are paying $500 to fill up your gas tank who are you going to call for help?
After Iran puts mines in the straits and runs a few speedboats out, and has a nuclear device it can deliver to the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields to make them unworkable for the next 100 years, what are you going to do?
No one here has given this deep penetrating thought. The very second that Iran starts something, and there is not a coalition to immediately stop them, the price of oil skyrockets and all of Iran has to be dismantled, all the mines, all the speedboats, all the missiles, all the military power, nothing can be left to interfere with the tankers.
I am buying 50 drums of 50 gallons and filling every one up. With Obama in charge, no one knows how long this war is going to take and we only have between 30-60 days supply of oil in the reserves.

I didn't know that engineers are esquires -- the engineers I know are generally really full of themselves. They are mathematically inclined and scientifically logical, but fail to realize in analyzing social & political issues that human beings are inherently selfish and power drunk.

*sigh* Engineering degrees may be obtained in undergraduate. A law degree is a graduate level endeavor in the US. Patent attorneys need to have a science or engineering background in order to be a member of the USPTO.

Secondly, my analysis of social and political issues is most sound. I have routinely understood the dynamics of foreign policy far better than the average political commentator. But whatever, beleive whatever you wish.

There are 5 million Jews in Israel and about 5 million in the U.S. The population of the U.S. is 335,000,000 where is the political leverage. The political leverage is over there,

Oh good god, you cannot be serious. First off, notice the kowtowing of the political crowd to the Jewish vote, and those that support Israel. Compare that to quantity and strength of the comments directed toward the latino population segment. Latinos are may times the size of the Jewish population, and yet have significantly less pull in Washington.

where they are our watchdog over our oil supply lines.

What are you smoking? Israel does nothing to protect our oil supply. Period. Economic self preservation and one of our carrier fleets takes care of that.

All Iran has to do is put one mine in the water and no tanker will sail in or out of the straits and oil will go up to astronomical prices

Mining the straight would be economic suicide to not only Iran, but Saudi Arabia and others. It would also severely piss of Russia and China. For these reasons alone the chances of them mining the straits is non-existent.

When have we ever fought Israel's battles?

Iran gets a nuke what makes you think they won't put one in a shipping container and ship it to nearest port in the US? They are no different than saddam barrack hussein. If he had small pox he would infect someone and send him on first flight to Israel...US. You infect everybody on the plane, at the airport departing and then every airport you drop people off at. Then the restaurants...cabbies, buses full of people, hotels...HOME.

These peopel are crazee nuts...they should be dealt with as such. Cut the head off the snake and world will be a better place.

ESQ....>>>>Israel is the only friend we have in the Middle east. Try not to forget that.

Bulldog, they won't even send one, its still suicide >.> You act like if some terrorist organization got it from them the world wouldn't be able to count its Nuclear arms stockpiles to figure out where the hole was. ONE NUKE will never end The United States, nor will 10... and they know that, so why play the paranoia figure? If they use it on Israel same thing happens, hell if anyone uses a nuke on this planet its end game for all, NO-ONE is that dumb. They may be an Islamic nation but they do have brains, and thus does much of their population. It's a lot to say in comparison to this country which does have specific minorities or groups with superior control of the political agenda. Its called a political machine, its an organization pushed for and funded by people with their own motive, scratch my back I scratch yours so to speak. American Politics is defined by it, population numbers don't matter when it comes to that.

So many people with so many strong opinions... So few with good grammar or any knowledge of spelling.

Bookworm your story sounds pretty good except for one thing, Iran is not dumb enough to start a war, which it knows it can not win. They are well aware of the fact they would be obliterated, were they to start a war. Iran can do all the things you say, but will not do them unless the US is dumb enough to do Israel's bidding and start the war.

As long as we keep the Republicans out of the oval office, America will be safe and oil prices will remain at a level we can afford.

The other danger is a false flag attack from Israel, designed to blame Iran. Israel will do just about anything to achieve their goal of a war, as proven by the false flag attacks on 9/11. The war with Iraq was the reason for that action. The neocons were calling for the US to attack Iraq on the day of the attacks.

Wow, very good research. Our incursion into Iraq has really made gas cheaper!

Another gross miscalculation by that inept administration. They thought they'd be done in a matter of weeks, it wouldn't be costly, and the oil fields would be in good condition to start flowing rapidly.

Impotence in results does not obliviate the rational.

English Dude -- wake up! Ever heard of Blackwater? That is were the money went -- to mercenaries that became billionaires courtesy of the Chaney/Bush regime. That is not being inept but a redistribution of wealth from the many to a few.

Look Junior, the Iraq War was a heinous miscalculation, mismanagement and the reasons for it were fabricated.

Using privatized security forces was just one of the numerous mistakes made. Oil, an inferiority complex, and catering to the military industrial complex were all reasons for the war. Keeping Hussein's access to WMDs in check, or getting rid of a despot were not the real reasons.

Lastly it's engineer, not English.

Blackwater and dont' forget Halliburton, which Dick was a former CEO of, and who's stock went up ten fold!!! We made him rich and all it cost us was 15 trillion dollars and a few thousand dead soldiers. What a bargain.

What was the third reason that bin Laden gave for the attack on the world trade centers?

3.) America's embargo on Iraq. Go into Afghanistan to get the attackers and leave the back door open for the Iraqis to harass the U.S. GREAT THINKING! The next commander in chief of the armed forces for Obama.

Go into Afghanistan to get the attackers and leave the back door open for the Iraqis to harass the U.S. GREAT THINKING!

You think Iraq would have harasses US forces in Afghanistan?!? WOW, you need some lessons in the political dynamics of pre-bush ME. Iraq leadership was none to fond of Al Quida, and was very concerned with self preservation. One thing you could count on from Saddam was extreme greed. He'd do anything to stay in power, and often was very rational in that regards.

Engaging the US in foreign territory where we were shooting people he didn't like would have not happened because it would jeapordize his power in his country.

EngEsq:

I don't understand this statement: Impotence in results does not obliviate the rational

I understand the "impotence in results does not" part, but "obliviate the rational" has me stumped. One can only surmise that way too many hours with Harry Potter may have had some type of negative impact on either the Eng part or the Esq part. It seems also that, possibly, rationale may have been a better choice than rational. A charm that causes one to forget is not a rational thought in most folk's lives, but, I would suppose, is an acceptable rationale for action, depending on the color of the sun on one's planet. Try spell checking "obliviate". Condescension is a nasty personality trait.

EngEsq

One of the 1st points you have made that I agree with.......Saddam was a pain to Iran and Al Quida and makes no sense why we went in at a cost of Trillions when we could have bought him for a few Billion.

I forgot an 'e', so sue me. I have done far worse in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. After all this is only a discussion board, and proofing takes too long.

As far as the rest of your post goes, you have a very obtuse means of getting to your point.

Ahem. I can see you are out your league here. I mean in a good way. You seem to have much more knowledge, experience and academic accomplishments here. I am having so much fun reading your comments. It is a clinic! But don't expect any of those idiots to agree with you even if you said the the sun is a planet, they would find explanations why it is not. But bear this in mind: "Never argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

keep trying anyways, if you get one to understand even one single thing, you would have accomplished far more than most have accomplished in a lifetime.

And they look at irrelevant things such as spelling. I would imagine that is more important than the substance of what you are saying.

"...oh, right, then there's the oil."

Where's the oil, then?

For you Zionists that claim the US has never fought a war for Israel, read these links. The Zionists planned and sold the war in Iraq and started their plan in 1996.

Here are 4 links which you war mongers can ponder, which will show how and why, the neocons, allied with Israel got the US into the war with Iraq and our present situation in Iran. They will show the unholy relationship between high ranking Zionist members of the Pentagon and the leadership of Israel.

http://www.rense.com/general29/perl.htm

http://www.serendipity.li/iraqwar/ignoble_liars.htm

http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc1.htm

http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc2.htm

I don't think Bush lied about thinking there were WMD in Iraq, after all, Bush's friends at Haliburton & Bechtel helped Iraq create them, like mustard gas.

Bush was probably dumbfounded at not finding any in Iraq... he probably had copies of the receipts for the WMD's in his desk, LOL!

Gee Dave...Ya think Swiss "are profitable and mind their own busines: are linked together? Something about ...Uhhhh...that is the country where all countries hide their money?.....Kinda small too ya think? Soooo you want more war asap, which will cost a lot of money, yet you would be upset if Israel and U.S. want more money for war.....?

You are correct, this IS the saner crowd..........kinda scary, ain't it?

You thought msnbc had a saner crowd? Where you been dude?

Saner than what, the crazies over on Fox News.

Been there, them people is absolutely nuts.

Should we go back to the days of liege lords living in the castle behind the wall while the peasants labor at the whim of the wealthy as well? Maybe throw in a few dungeons for those peasants that get out of line? The only part of your post I can even remotely understand is the derision of the car culture, mass transportation should have been designed into the infrastructure of this country and all the major cities starting 40 or more years ago. But saying only the elites should have transportation options available to them?

To BIG TROUBLE.........In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand
At the mongrel dogs who teach
Fearing not I'd become my enemy
In the instant that I preached
sisters led by confusion boats
Mutiny from stern to bow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.

...and of course Iran is of no threat to anyone...they just like to hear themselves talk tough...saying things like "We will drive the Zionists into the sea." or my personal favorite " We will rid the world of the zionist pigs." Great huh? They truly are a loving people.

That's what you get when you threaten them with military resolve, politics 101 talk a big game always >.>

Many of you cohorts are saying we need to get rid of our President. Do you think Iran or N. K. should help us out. Maybe China or Russia could join and help.

I can't say as I blame the Iranians for wanting a nuke as that seems to be the only way to get our country to leave them alone.

That's not working out too well for them, is it?

Iran wants the bomb to destroy Israel, either directly or by proxy.

One of the more sane comments I have read so far...well that is in addition to those of the EngrEsq.

anyone with any sense knows obama inherited the mess bush and the republicans made...

I have never seen a crowd of people unable to accept responsibility for their own actions like the Obama toady crowd.

Reagan 'inherited' a disaster from Carter. He never whined and complained about it.

Children blame others instead of accepting responsibility. Obama has been at the helm for almost 4 years. When will the toadies finally stop whining about Bush?

"regardless if he is a democrat, he has done as much as he can even with his hands being tied by republicans in congress and the senate blocking him continuously."

You realize, don't you, that for the first two years of this administration, the Dems had a super-majority and there was nothing the Repubs could have done to block them and they STILL did nothing.

"regardless if he is a democrat, he has done as much as he can even with his hands being tied by republicans in congress and the senate blocking him continuously."

You realize, don't you, that for the first two years of this administration, the Dems had a super-majority and there was nothing the Repubs could have done to block them and they STILL did nothing.

MikeH in Indy, do you realize that there is something called a Fillibuster that can be used to block legislation from being brought to the floor for a vote and it was the prime measure used by the republicant's during the first portion of President Obama's term. They said from the beginning of his term that their goal was going to be to make the President fail. That's working out pretty well huh? Anyway, stop reading talking points and look at the history of what has been happening over the last four years. Also the Democrats didn't have a Super Majority, just a majority. That's why they couldn't break the fillibusters....SMDH..

MikeH - Go back to school.

Speaker Boehner is doing just exactly what he was put there to do...stop obuttwipe and pelosi dead in their tracks till we get control of the Senate...fire that bum Reid, and fire that bum in the white house. Then we will start passing budgets again, doing the peoples work.

It is no wonder the democrat party has an ass for a mascot...they are all asses!

HOPE FOR CHANGE 2012 ABO

Neither party is amazing... Study their history, they were almost identical 150 years ago>.>

Dallas,

You wrote, "You realize, don't you, that for the first two years of this administration, the Dems had a super-majority and there was nothing the Repubs could have done to block them and they STILL did nothing." I don't agree with you. In the Senate, there were about 14 DINOS elected in conservative states that called themselves "Blue Dog" Democrats. They disfavored abortion, liked guns, and aligned themselves more often than not with the Republicans on economic and tax issues. They joined in the Republican filibusters, which was employed by Republicans at a rate unheard of in this Republic.

DINOS are not real Democrats, and the group elected in 2006 showed it. So, I respectfully disagree with your super-majority argument.

Yes Steven, Obama has been at the helm for almost 4 years and things have improved mightily in that time. Bush brought the stock market down to 6800, from 14000 and it is now around 13000. Our car companies are now making money, instead of closing their doors. Their workers and the workers of companies that provide parts to the auto makers are still in business, thanks to Obama.

Bin Laden is dead and we are out of Iraq, a war which will cost over 3 trillion dollars, that was financed with loans from China. Those loans aqnd the interest due, has been passed to Obama as a gift from Bush. Clinton left Bush a surplus and Bush left Obama a deficit and a downtrodden economy. Bush had full control of the Senate, House and Judiciary for 6 years. Obama only has a small majority in the Senate.

It seems Republicans like you, do not want to take responcibility for their actions. Hey, there were no WMD in Iraq. Also no mobile biological weapons trailors. I always get a kick out of that one. Imagine the fools believing that s-t.

Well. actually Nazi Germany tried to attack them. They couldn't find a way through the Alps in Switzerland to move their tanks.

They also serve who only stand and wait. On His Blindness, John Milton

As the mother of a veteran, thank you for your service as well as your husband's. I hope as well that if it is decided to involve us in another war, those making that decision do so with clear and calm heads. God bless.

Then YOU pay for it, i'm out of tax money!

Don't worry, your rich "Uncle" will cover the expense.

Put the blame where in belongs: The Iranian theocracy.

Or rather on the US industrial war mob. Why are so many Americans- those who claim to be pro-life especially- addicted to the policy of killing large numbers of people?

DOU44,

This has been going on for as long as man kind has walked the earth. My advise to you would be to move to Iran if you dont like "the US industrial war mob". Iran will surely treat you with the hospitality you deserve.

To StevenB. How the hell is Iran responsible? Obviously you speak like a true teabaggin' republican. You them coming over here to try an change our regime? But I bet your Mormon wannabe Presidential hopeful would not try to impose his religious beliefs on the population? Or the idiot whose brain swigns just like a Pendulum?

LOl I honestly can't see a reason they're responsible. I mean think about it, we @!$%# on them not 70 years ago and tried to overthrow them >.>

If Israel can't let the holocaust go then Iran won't let our meddling go either, its life and humans hold grudges.

Iranians beat themselves bloody every year over the deaths of a religious leader that died centuries ago. Compared to that, the Israelis remembering the holocaust are only just getting started.

Irrelevant much? I see no connection in the two.

Enlighten us with your wisdom.

David, an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan of all NATO forces, and civilians should have been given yesterday, last week, last month ... whenever. They don't have any war to be WON in Afghan. I want them out NOW! So, you can enlighten me on your wisdom donkey David, as why your commander-an-boychild wants to continue this war in Afghan. Is he a 'warmonger'? Busy writing apologizes to the murders of humans in cold blood, while are people are brought home in body bags? FDR, JFK, Ronald Reagan would never ever do this, or allow it to happen. Jimmy 'peanut farmer' Carter would not be able to speak for the rest of his life. Did that put some light on the horizon David?

Could it be perhaps that Obama is after the terrorists, the same terrorists that Bush declared war on, but never had the guts to attack, deciding instead on protecting his daddy's oil?

Demetrius...theres a hee-haw now! Some are jack-asses...all are dum masses!

WOAA, NOW WAIT JUSS A MINUTE Dere Andy! Ogutless our fearless Commandeer in chief is a War monger ?

How can that possibly be true? No , Say it ain't so ! He Won the " NOBEL P E A C E PRIZE didn't he?????

Liar, Liar pants on Fire !!! Somebody get a hose !

bulldog dude, I have no idea what planet you are from...... Oh Wait!!! The planet of Limbaughfoxhannity!!!

So far off in the galaxy that it will take Melania to reach any discernible Life.

Israel may or may not have nukes. Israel has never threatened anyone with annihilation.

Iran is actively pursuing nukes, to destroy Israel.

Israel has had to fight for her life no less than 7 times.

The Arabs had their chance for a "Palestinian" state in 1948. They chose war instead.

Steven, you are right. And, let's be blunt, Abdallah is a hater -- there are no human rights in Iran. The property of religious minorities is being confiscated without compensation just like the Nazi's did to the Jews.

The U.S. or Israel should hit Ghom, Isfahan, and Shiraz because these are the places of origin of iranian islamic fanaticism.

there are no human rights in Iran. The property of religious minorities is being confiscated without compensation just like the Nazi's did to the Jews.

What?

israel is the only country in the world that has apartheid, and officially enforces racism...... You got to be out of your ffreaking mind(I doubt you have one)....

correction, steven israel has threatened the world with nukes via the samson option

JrSub

You are so uninformed that i do not know where to begin.

Iranian jews were offered 100,000$ on the top of 50,000$ all jews recieve to emigrate to Israel.hardly any of those 25000 Iranian jews took the offer.

The biggest real estate owner of my home town in Iran is jewish.he makes 20,000$ a day just from the rent he collects from his tenants.

Iranian people are among the most secular and educated in the world.

go watch "3 minutes trip to tehran" and "persian wedding" or "Tehran persian nights" on youtube then you would have some ideas about people of Iran.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Russia is ... Iran over its nuclear program, warning that the consequences would be truly catastrophic.

Steven,

I assume you are a jew. denying that Isreal doesn't have the nukes is really B..sht.

read this article if you want to know more :http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/16/AR2006021601897.html

but still after reading it you will deny the truth...I won't be surprised.

Sirus & Abdallah & Ibrahim, you are white washing a racist, theocratic, mullah regime, most certainly because you derive monetary benefits from it.

I repeat, the Iranian government has confiscated without legal justification and without compensation the real property of thousands of members of religious minorities.

I agree with you that "Iranian people are among the most secular and educated in the world," but those are the Iranians that have left Iran over the last 30-35 years. The mullahs that run today's iranian government are decibels of the Hitler regime: they are murderers, habitual liars, thiefs, racists, sexist, have no tolerance for other religions, and pose a threat to all nations because of their global ambitions to export their brand of irrational islam.

Yes, Israel has the bomb but Israel hasn't threatened to wipe other nations of the face of the earth.

And please somebody show me the history of your alleged Palestinian state. Exactly, no such sovereign state, constitution, parliament, or currency ever existed. The Palestianian question is a question of hate deliberately and artifically created by the Arab nations surrounding Israel. Rational people do not live in camps for some 60 years plus for the sake of pretending that they are refugees.