Americans don't like to talk about their soldiers brutalizing, killing or raping civilians of occupied nations like Iraq, Afghan, Yemen, and Pakistan. In Vietnam, the My Lai massacre was just a tip of the iceberg -- there were dozenss like it. Americans delude themselves into believing they are morally superior than others. It is easier to kill foreigners when America claims to stand on higher moral grounds. As history shows beginning in 1960s, America has been waging wars for the last 50 years, not counting the Cold War which began in the 50s. In the Vietnam war alone, more than one million Vietnamese perished in addition to the 58,000 precious sons and daughters of America.

Today, America's war lovers and military industrial complex openly and secretly assassinate unpopular foreign leaders and even unpatriotic American citizens living abroad under the broad banner of anti-terrorism. Since America can label anyone a terrorist, America is at war with the people of the world.

Blood thirsty America no longer manufactures consumer goods but excel at making killing machines and producing corpses. In a little more than 200 years, this is what America has devolved into.

I agree this will end this war -- but it wont be pretty. I'm surprise we havent already seen these people in the streets. This will be a bigger event than the Qurans

Please do not judge this soldier too harshly. The stress of a combat soldier is incredible.

I am surprised it does not happen more often.

We hear about the one that breaks all the while there is 50,000 more doing their job the best they can.

Bring them home.

The American soldiers are no better or no worse than other nations trained killers. That is what they know how to do.

Stressed I'm sure, but he signed up for it and stress does not justify murder.

Poor soldiers are serving under one of the most tough battle conditions.

Any time, they may be killed or maimed by any one including those dressed as Afghan soldiers.

Best thing is to bring these troops home and send the scare and war mongers busy again on Iran and Syria to take training in Afghanistan.

After initial training, they could be deployed in the new favorite battle fronts, Iran and Syria.

All of this could have been avoided if Bush just heeded the warning of the CIA. Osama has been captured and killed, lets get out of Afganistan.

Jonathan: FYI, Russia has military bases in Syria. Israel is dead-set against any intervention. Not going to happen. As for Iran, good luck.. Attacking them would be extremely risky. They are far more advanced and capable than Iraq and they too could mount a nasty insurgency. Russia and China won't stand for any invasion of Iran, I can guarantee you that.

William Whitmore, I agree. That is precisely what crossed my mind as well. They must feel like they are in hell, among primitives, and the president demonstrated his complete lack of concern for them.

It does not require higher education to recognize when a spineless, amoral president sells our troops out publicly.

"Tribal leaders told the BBC that women and children and men were among the dead."

"Tribal leaders"? Just exactly how far behind the rest of the world IS Afganistan?

Tribal leaders? What? Are we gonna smoke um peacepipe?

Bring our service men and women home! NOW!

Spot-on lokay5. I just wish the GOP war-mongers has realized that earlier. Trying to build democracy in a society with no concept of a central government or institutions was insane from the beginning. We also can't do anything meaningful in Pakistan to stop the flow of weapons and fighters.

Welcome to the new Vietnam and just like Vietnam, it won't end well.

Please do not judge this soldier too harshly

Rockyroad,

Is that what you would be saying if 17 Americans had been slain by this man instead of 17 Afghans? I worry when 17 murders are written off as a statistic instead of a tragedy...

Not sure which of you is more crazy FatCatGet7Bill or William Whitmore#### but you both should get back on your meds or seek help.

Two days ago would have been the right day to be out of that hell-hole.

Our soldiers are in an untenable position... they're literally going crazy.

The Afghans are going crazy. They view us as occupiers that do not know or respect them.

Every day we stay is another mess waiting to happen.

We should have empathy going in both directions. If we did we might have had a chance there. Instead, the hate mongers on both sides have won.

You people think you're posting in a vacuum here?

Fat Cat

As much as I hate to admit it, you are correct. The soldiers are sent to a war, which most initially believe is to protect "the American way". Only to find out they are to be sitting ducks in a diplomatic nightmare. THEY are to follow the ways of the countries they are in, be security as long as they do not interfere, and just wait for the fall out from what the "fat cats" in Washington do. I do not agree with killing innocent civilians, nor do I agree with the killing of American men and women. Afghanistan is a war that should already be over. We do not need to be in a police action anywhere in the world. The only ones that want us there are rebels trying to take control of___________(fill in the blank) After the American military do the dirty work, they want us out of the country and place all blame on us. Examples Iraq, Egypt. The
"war on terrorism" can not be won this way. We can not offer rewards to rebels who fight to create a "democracy". Democracy is something that THEY have to want and fight for, not the U.S. or NATO. we cannot continue the effort to police the world. The other countries take advantage and then ultimately resent the intrusion. The American tax payers foot the bill with their money and the American soldiers foot the bill with their lives. Not to mention the civilians who die when the pressure blows on the soldiers who are sent back to dangerous zones time and time again because we do not have the military to take on these tasks.

Well the US news media is all in Syria talking about atrocities, where is the US news media and the pictures of American atrocities?

Sorry--double post--many apologies.

They cant talk about American atrocities, they have to pretend like everything is ok so Obama can get reelected. Politics is all about lies, upon lies, the media states what they want, people believe them. Doesnt matter the side, both Fox and MSN lie their asses off and people suck up everything they say like it is fact, when it is ALL biased CRAP!

We really don't need another village massacre, ala Vietnam. This is getting out of control fast. I thin 2014 is too far away. They want us there less then the plague, and it's starting to tell on the troops.

We should have never allowed American soldiers to be killed without retaliation.

And this is how we end up trapped in some forsaken foreign adventure forever.

This is war, we cannot re-animate the ones we have lost. Losses are on both sides. Osama, Saddam, Allalaki, etc are dead bring the troops home, I tired of watching eighteen year olds going of to war to become IED magnets for only $20,000 a year or less. Too many friends who used to be 8 inches taller than me are now 8 inches shorter in a wheel chair (I am 5'7"). Let the Intellegence guys handle this, they are experts at this, they have the experiance, and they make the money for it too. Let our weary soilder finally collect on their G.I. bill and educate themselves and rest. Anyone who disagree or are in a high "moral" path, please I encourage you to enlist and while making that kind of money while you risk your life everyday and God forbid land under an IED. Blame the president all you want, but, please do not make the troops many of which are my friends take the heap for it.

You might count yourself lucky as his nervous breakdown occurred in Afghanistan instead of the streets of the USA when he was due for returning to the USA after his tour(s) of duty. How many vets are on the brink of suicide or homelessness? How many vets are trained to killkillKILL but never to live freedom in their own country? I am lucky not being in a vets shoes. The USA military disgraces vets and other military personel by not teaching them how to be a citizen. Just a killingmachine short of breaking down. Where is the soldiers dignity when they do not receive good aftercare? Where is the soldiers honor if they are being robbed blind by contracters and loansharks? Where do they stand in society when they return in full killtraining but never get their relievetraining? Vets and soldiers need that relieve training more than the killtraining. It makes them humans again. It is the least you can give the soldiers that risk their lives to save your freedom.

See what happens when we put our soldiers into quicksand? When we force them to be dare care providers instead of warriors? Here's your answer.

Isn't politically correct and business driven warfare grand?????

Pffffffffft.

This might be a blessing in disguise. Years of war and stresses of it takes it toll and this is what you get. We might get out of there finally. So chose carefully this fall about if you want to go to war again with a couple more nations.

Many of you have stated that we should not judge this person harshly as he was mentally unstable, that may be. It does not excuse his actions nor does it bring back the lives he willfully has taken who were unarmed and unknowingly in harms way. I have many friends that are active duty, two of which are currently in afganistan. I worry for their safety now that this has happened as this can serve as a rallying cry to those over their who see Americans as nothing more then animals that need to be put down. That sentiment is spreading due to incedents like this.

Many of you have criticized Obama for apologizing for the Koran burnings. What you fail to realize is that if we do not get along with the other kids on the playground, who is going to have our back when @!$%# hits the fan? Actions like these and the Koran burning not only look bad on the persons responsible, but every American as they are over there representing us. Every misdeed that happens under any presidents watch looks bad on him as he is the figure head representing all of us. It undermines his ability to work cooperatively with other nations. It undermines his ability to do his job. If any of you have been in the military you would realize that as a subordinate, your performance on the job can either make your CO look good or bad as he is directly responsible for you. As CIC, the president is responsible for your actions to the rest of the world and is held accountable. It affects his ability to negotiate better terms for americans when it comes to things. I would not want to be in his shoes nor would any of you as he is the one that has to deal with the fallout and trying to mend bridges which means he will have to give something up. Cooperation is a give and take, unfortunately we may have just taken too much at one time. This does not bode well for our men in uniform currently over there.

If we had resolute leadership, including in the White House, we would have explained that these Islamic terrorist enemy combatants being detained at the Parwan facility had used the Koran to write jihadist messages to pass to others.

In doing so, they violated their own cultural practice and defiled the Koran. Furthermore, they turned the Koran into contraband. Therefore, Islamic cultural practice and Parwan detention facility procedures support burning the “contraband.”

Instead here we go again, offering apology after apology and promising to “hold those responsible accountable.” Responsible for what?

When tolerance becomes a one-way street it leads to cultural suicide. This time it immediately led to the deaths of two American Warriors. America is awaiting the apology from President Hamid Karzai.

I amazed that he shot Afghans during his meltdown. From what I have been told by various military service personnel, most of the soldiers over there want to massacre their own officers for the sh*tty treatment the soldiers get from their command staff.

These men risk their lives everyday for us

This is the remark that someone always pulls out of the hat that just stuns me. It was said repeatedly after the atrocities we committed in Iraq, and it is said repeatedly about the atrocities we now commit in Afghanistan.

In neither case are/were our soldiers there to protect us. Our country is not at risk from either of these countries. The men who attacked us at 911 were mostly Saudi Arabians. The leader was the scion of a wealthy and elite Saudi family. The ONLY possible legitimate war would have been against Saudi Arabia, but instead, our president publicly smooched and held hands with them.

Furthermore, our undisciplined military continuously commit atrocities that serve as a rationale for acts of terrorism against the U.S. and U.S. citizens, while generating contempt from the rest of the world. If 911 happened today, much of the world would shrug and say we deserved it.

It takes a heap of self-satisfaction, not to mention smoke and mirrors, to claim our soldiers are in Afghanistan "protecting us." I just hope someone can protect us from these murderous psychopaths when they come home.

@FedUpWIthFED

True, but Bush jr. had the warning before 9/11 all he had to do was beef up security.

Bush sucks for getting us involved over there. O'bama sucks for not getting us out as his campaign message promised. Lets break away from this trend and hire us some old, slightly odd, ex doctor. Why do we continue to fall for campaign rhetoric that NEVER pans out? For the love of God, lets try something different...have the courage to break away from the familiar and go out on a limb!!

Obama pulled us out of Afghanistan the day he assumed office.

Obama makes things right, and Bush made things wrong.

Ummm

yakfitguy: Thanks.

1991 Iraqi war were conducted under the direction of Saudi Arabia, oil companies and their lobbyists and they were done for them.

There were no US interests involved. Poor soldiers became a tool in their war grinding machines.

This single war made Amerika No. 1 enemy of Muslims!

See the twists and turns after the Saudi directed jobs are done.

This resulted in 9/11 and here the key players were Saudis, Pakis and UAE rich sharks, who benefited from Iraqi wars.

Bush, Jr attacked: Afghanistan and Iraq.

Allies of war on terror: Saudis and Pakis.

Now new directions set by the same villains: Iran and Syria.

Its a war zone, chit happens.

beanathome

While Obama stepped up our presence in Afghanistan, and Bush did not, remember that Bush was being encouraged by the military to step up activity in Afghanistan and would not. It appears that Obama has been listening to the military brass (if not necessarily the average serviceperson). I hope that the military brass knows what it is doing.

You left of the important detail that our DEMOCRATIC congress withheld funding for the war!

Let's remember, similarly, that Obama was asked by the military brass to apologize in order to quell difficulties in Afghanistan over the burning of the Q'uran and help to keep the service personnel there safe. He did it, though it will cost him in the election season. I'm sure he knows that it is going to cost him votes. That, alone, shows that he really does care more about the service personnel than he cares about himself.

I think your memory is short circuiting! The military did NOT ask him to apologize, they felt betrayed when he did and it only escalated the situation. You are right though...it will COST Obama not only votes, but the election!

william whittemore-3007421 and all others above who brush this off and/or approve of it must be family-values, bible thumping conservatives. Funny how that is. No compassion, no honor, and no depth perception. This will get a lot more Americans killed.

They cant talk about American atrocities, they have to pretend like everything is ok so Obama can get reelected.

He won't be re-elected.

Readers might be interested in the ISAF Commander's Counterinsurgency Guidance. Quite the contrast, as it effectively tells us what is going wrong there.

http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/official_texts/counterinsurgency_guidance.pdf

Wow there really is no middle ground with you people is there? How can anybody advocate murdering innocent people in their own homes? At the same time I don't understand how anyone can advocate apologizing over the koran incident either. Let's look at our common ground. The one thing we all generally agree on is that we shouldn't be there in the first place. There is plenty of oil in north America, let them keep their damn oil! The savages wouldn't even know what to do with it if not for the western world.

Was the soldier one of many who has been given an anti-depressant and sent back to the field of war?

The military medical community recognizes the problem of battle stress and their solution is to pump those with severe depression and put them back in the field.

And we wonder why these things happen? How many times are our soldiers going to have to be deployed in that life sucking pit. Bring all of them home and this time, give them the treatment they need instead of burying their heads in the sand about how severe a problem this is, over there and once they come home.

Wow there really is no middle ground with you people is there? How can anybody advocate murdering innocent people in their own homes? At the same time I don't understand how anyone can advocate apologizing over the koran incident either

People do not think for themselves anymore livinginthewoods...Logic has no place in our politics any longer. Living in the woods sounds like a grand idea. The further I can get away from people the better.

Zardoz,

That was a given from the day W. blathered "Yer either with us or yer agin us!"

As usual, short-term political gain trumps the needs of the country and its citizens.

The saddest part of all (IMHO) is that the youth of our nation, in their zeal to give something back, fall prey to becoming cannon fodder or worse (yes, there are even worse fates). Even the service member who committed this atrocity might well have been unlikely to do so, had he not been sent to the region in the first place. Yet, the calculating weasels who continue to profit by the deaths of young Americans and foreigners alike never hesitate to cloak themselves in the shroud of these legions of dead in order to protect themselves from more scrutiny. I'll add that there is a major distinction between criticizing the architects of 'the mission' and the enlisted people who draw the short straw of implementing it.

It's true - we clearly learned nothing as a nation from Vietnam.

People do not think for themselves anymore livinginthewoods...Logic has no place in our politics any longer.

Nailed it. See, this is precisely WHY we don't have a third party, and more INDEPENDENTS. Too many f*cking lemmings on either the Democrat or Republican side. People can't think independently. They'll take ANYTHING out of their political party's candidates mouths as Gospel. It's insane.

Kornfed, people definitely do not think for themselves. I moved to an urban area because when I lived in the city, it was time for my oldest daughter to start school and she couldn't get into pre-K because she spoke English. I decided enough was enough and that I was not going to subject my kids to the same sorry excuse for an education that I received.

Interestingly enough, when I lived in the city, people called me a redneck, out here people call me a liberal hippie.

Although I am overall, very happy out here, for my kids sake, I have noticed that people are mostly sheep no matter where you go, they just follow a different herd.

living in the woods...and listening to theme music...for these articles...is a way of life for some...enjoy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlk6-aUdf8&feature=related

Please excuse me if I get this wrong, but now, shouldn't Karzai apologize to the US? After all, Obama apologized to them while they were killing our people. Just wondering. I doesn't seem right to me either way, but I'm not a "diplomat." Really, all he has to say is that, "They burned my Bible."

I moved to an urban area because when I lived in the city

Whoops urban should be rural, sorry...

The primary reason we left Iraq is that the government there refused (adamantly) to allow immunity for US soldiers from war crimes prosecution.

The reason we are leaving Afghanistan, and that timetable is likely to accelerate, is because we have LOST that war in the very same way the Soviets did. That's right LOST. There is a very good reason the country has been called The Graveyard of Empires. After the invasion, when the Northern Alliance was our ally, we controlled over 95% of the territory. Now, after 10 years, the Taliban either controls or is in serious contention for over 80% of the country. Remember that Afghanistan has a population that is only about 20% urbanized. Therefore, control of territory is mandatory to control the nation. We have lost that, and the war, as a practical matter.

Continuing to stay only allows for incidents like this to continue, as they will, because the situation will continue to worsen. At one time, we might have been able to win that war, but we lost the peace so badly (in all of these adventures since WWII) that winning any such war would only be a temporary victory. So, as it was with the Soviets, the Taliban and their allies in the population will resort to doing what Afghanis have always excelled at: wearing us down into a state of despondency.

Judging from the actions of this soldier, we are already there.

MIKE IN AFGHANISTAN # 1.33 - good post guy- you know what is going on- the rest of the REMFs in here sure don't.

REMFs don't understand why nobody pays attention to them - it's because they are totally clueless.
Make them a liberal and a REMF, and we have serious problems! It's the Twilight Zone all over......

TEXANA DEB has the second best post in here -

Somebody mentioned what would happen if the Afghans killed 17 americans : "17 GIs killed in Kabul - now, for what's on sale at the mall!"

Instead it's " GI kills 17 afghans after being shot at for a year! It's the start of the New World Order! The Apocolypse!"

Well, REMFs, this is what you get without a lot of libs in the service to make it "nicer".

Who will not breakdown in craziest battle zones like Afghanistan, Iraq and other Muslim nations?

It appears that poor soldiers have all laws on earth.

If some Islamic militants kill so many soldiers, then they proudly claim killing them!

The same Sunni seventh century Al Zazeera will post the killers claims too!

Our APOLOGIZER in chief will be out apologizing again............Zapper that was spot on.......some affies were burning some bibles............his reaction was JUSTIFIED according to odumbo.

Innocence is relative. Here in the US, people are held accountable if they stand by and watch their friends, family, or neighbors commit crimes. That is how we have attained a relatively peaceful society.

That is not how they choose to live. They will hide, protect and revere bad elements in their society and do nothing about it, whether for social or religious reasons. While I would argue that they are complicit and accomplices and are not innocent, this will never change, and has not changed in thousands of years.

That being stated, in order to find a resolution, we have two options. Kill them all or get out. I argue for the latter, with a warning of the former sent out to the entire region if we get attacked again.

Gross man! What a horrible thing to wake up and read on Sunday morning.

Looks like Obama has his ABU-GRAVE. With his serious disdane and constant appologizing the soldiers must feel like abused step childern. Afgans kill American soldiers without remorse or punishment over a few books and the president appologies for burning the books. Something like this is only a matter of time when the Commander in Chief is ANTI-MILITARY. These soldiers are under extreme stress and are very young, when they get distrubed they will act out.

Somebody mentioned what would happen if the Afghans killed 17 americans : "17 GIs killed in Kabul - now, for what's on sale at the mall!"

Actually, the news headline that would contrast this would be "17 taliban killed." Taliban are soldiers, they get killed all the time - and it's not a world-shaking headline.

This is terrorism, plain and simple. No killing of any GI can justify the killing of a child. You might make try to make the case that the women might have been terrorists, at least, they are adults and are able to make their own decisions. Children, no.

This is a shocking and horrifying incident precisely because it is about woman and children, and it is really amazing that this needs to be explained. We are supposed to be the good guys. It seems we are devolving into an Israeli mindset, where we can commit the worst atrocities and keep on believing that we have a mandate from God and so are pure and perfect.

@ William and others who think the murder of sleeping families(who weren't killing US troops) was justified:

If someone who lives in your neighborhood kills a friend or family member of mine, would I be justified going to your house and killing your wife and kids?

You are showing the same mentality as those who commit terrorist attacks.

The American Embassy in Kabul said in a statement that it was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."

It pains me to Burst-your-Bubble Skippy; but just in case you have not noticed, the Afghan's are not your friends.

Exactly how many Afghan civilians have shot or detonated bombs that have killed or injured US military?

They will hide, protect and revere bad elements in their society and do nothing about it, whether for social or religious reasons.

It's funny - we did pretty much the same thing during our own Revolution. Yeah, it really is relative. A wise old man once said "the barbarians always win, because they are barbaric." Find an ex-Soviet veteran of Afghanistan and listen to their story. It is probably very much like our own soldiers will tell you today.

Do you really think this soldier got up and thought Today is a good day to go cause trouble?. It looks more like the military version of going postal. Too much stress,feeling like a target after the last few weeks and gee he has a gun. What did those idiots running this thing expect?

"Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Please explain that to all the women and children your suicide bombers, car and truck bombers, and airplane crashers have killed all in the name of your Muslim god. Muslim is a religion , right?

Maybe as punishment, the US should turn this soldier over to the Afghans. Lets see if they torture him - like they always complain about the US doing to their Afghan detainees.

Don't mistake my post here - this soldier really screwed up, badlly. That is putting it mildly.

But, this was only one US soldier who was deliberately targeting civilians. How many did he kill? I believe the story said 15. Wow. But if our entire military was targeting civilians, you know, like the Afghans and Pakistani's are always claiming, how many civilians would be killed? A lot more than 15. In fact, the US military might be the only inhabitants of Afghanistan by now. I always hate it when our soldiers bend over backwards to try not to kill or injure civilians in Afghanistan and when a civilian does get it, the Afghans (and Pakistanis and Iraqis, etc) always complain how we target them, etc. If we were really targeting them, a lot more of them would be dead. Just look at what this one rouge soldier did. Imagine if our entire force were targeting civilians.......

I don't blame this soldier. This guy was probably fed up. Afghanistan's Karzai is against the US. The people there do not understand our troops are there to help them. The Taliban is too powerful in brain washing these people. Then you have Obama who promised during his 2008 campaign that he would start withdrawing all our troops the day he stepped foot into office. Three years later we are still there and then Obama apologizes for something our troops had to do because of some terrorists threats found handwritten in some Koran books.

The solider lost his mind, just as our government has lost it's collective mind by staying there; get out now ,before we all lose what is left of our soul.

This is completely outrageous. This soldier can be executed under the UCMJ but will probably end up going to prison. Yes, I understand that it is a very stressful situation. Of course that is simply no excuse to open fire on non-combatant women and children or even men. A human mistake? Sure. One that could adversely affect the lives of millions of people. I think that if this soldier got the worst punishment they have, it wont be enough to satisfy the people of Afghanistan.

Would it be shameful if the US withdrew immediately? I think it would be more shameful if we did not. You say these soldiers are defending the US? How? What is it they are doing that makes the US a safer place? I am not putting the soldiers at fault for being in Afghanistan. But when they are performing their duties overseas, they are also acting as ambassadors to of the US. If you think that is wrong then you have never undergone military training in the US military, or have a bad memory. We are supposed to be *helping* the Afghans not killing their children.

a few US soldiers killed in an act of retribution in no way equates to 16 or 17 innocent Afghans killed in an act of random violence unless you are a sociopathic maniac. These are people who love their families, who have dreams of a better future. They aren't just "primitives" ( I'm talking to you Sobi.) Perhaps you have it backwards.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women." Holy wow!I dont condone what that nutjob of a soldier did, but an "anti-Islamic" act?I cannot believe that was even said, much less posted!Get out of that craphole and let em all blow themselves up in the name of Allah and have a nice plate of eggs and BACON!

Bet you this guy is one of those Arabs(Muslims) that the U.S. is allowing to infiltrate into our Armed Forces just for the sake of political correctness.

This man (I can't really call him a soldier anymore) went off base, of his own accord and alone, killed at least 9 children - we are not sure if he killed others in the neighboring village, then he walks back to the base an turns himself in. That is the story we know from MSNBC.

This is a very sad day for the families who lost their loved ones - say what you want, they are still people.

The only option (which will never happen) that the US has is to turn this man over to the Afghan government. If that does not happen, I fear for the safety of the Military men and women (from the US and coalition forces) who had nothing to do with this attack but will certainly have a bulls-eye on their back - revenge for these deaths will probably not be limited to Afghanistan. This ex-soldier, now murderer, has single-handedly made more terrorists who want revenge.

He walked back to base because the US has not done a great job at punishing bad behavior. Calvin Gibbs - the soldier who let others kill for fun (the Kill Team) and take body parts from the civilian victims could be out of jail in less than 10 years.

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/11/kill-team-calvin-gibbs-convicted

The Kill Team: http://www.rollingstone.com/kill-team

If this ex-soldier is not handed over - he should be tried for the murder of any coalition soldiers who die because of his actions and the need for revenge from the people of Afghanistan.

2014 is too long, we have been told we are not welcome for months, it is time to go. I fear for the soldiers there now because of what this man has done - the children's deaths alone warrant letting him meet his fate at an Afghan prison - the fact that he put all the coalition troops in the Mid-East in danger warrants that he remain behind. Walking back to base and turning himself in only shows that he knew that what he did was a punishable offense and he wants US justice not Afghani. Let the Afghans have him and wish for the safe return of all coalition soldiers still in the Mid-East.

Let's not forget the lives lost by this man either - their families will grieve their loss the rest of their lives.

I have said it before, the politicians that so casualy declare wars should all in the front line with their entire families doing the actual fighting. That way they might be more carefull going to war.

Quit blaming the Afghans, we all know they are a lost sorry bunch and a lost coarse. But is was the SAUDIES that started 9/11. And your buddy GWB let them leave the US before all flights were locked down.

Next this all could have been avoided if you had a viable THIRD PARTY.

Sofar your 2 party system where winner takes all doesn't work. Both of them have all sold out to big business and lobyists and the military complex (boy i love Eisenhower, a wise man)

Remeber also you have a bunch of soldiers that coming back that are on the brink of insanity that is not there fault, thank you corrupts politicians for that.

It will be interesting to see what will happen when they come back to no job, no housing, no wife and kids and being treated like sh*t by their government that they faught for.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Yet, these followers of the cult of the moon god do this regularly. Just the other day in Iraq they stoned some teens to death just for wearing some western style jeans. When these sons of allah detonate their explosives in a market, who do they think is there shopping? Women with their children, that's who?

It isn't going to get any better so now is the time to pull out all troops and let them slaughter each other. After all, that's what they've been doing for the past thousand years.

I wonder how swift justice will be on this soldier? Major Hasan hasn't started his trial for killing soldiers at Ft. Hood yet.

Yeah Hal, but here's the problem. The soldiers are not the issue - politicians on both sides are the issue. While they play chess with human livers our soldiers are left to fend for themselves under confusing and contradictory rule sets. You have to wait for your enemy to shoot at you before you return fire. When you unload on a car that refuses to stop at a checkpoint are you really a murderer or someone put in an impossible situation with no solution? Most of you jerkoffs don't understand the responses that are triggered by aggressive action. If the afghans don't want us shooting their people, let them take their weapons from their people. Americans are societally programmed to avoid violence.

and how many women and children (innocents all?) by theese Muslims and Taliban, etc. etc. in the course of serving their "god" in order to get to heaven with its 72 virgins. Christian religion tells us only to kill in self-defense. You start out with two different "ideals," if you will and they aren't going to go together. Get out of Afghanistan and let e'm do whatever it is they do...to each other but not to us.

Concerned veteran How many Afgan civilians has done harm to the U.S. soldiers. U don't know. In the Vietnam war they used women, children, and everything they could to kill U.S. soldiers. Let see how many trained Afgan troops strap a bomb to themselves and kill as many as they can. From what I have read the Taliban uses women, children, and anyone else to ge tot their objective.

It is time to leave and let these jackazzes kill themselves off. The world will be a better place.

Wetwilly -

I wouldn't call the UK's "Daily Mail" a great source of information unless you like the 'Political' spiel of the US "National Enquirer." ... interesting how you failed to mention that the article clearly stated (if you believe any of the tripe from the Daily Mail - "Iraq’s leading Shia clerics have condemned the stonings."

Moon? The Red Crescent is the same as the US Red Cross - do you have a problem with the Red Cross?

Was only a matter of time.

You knew with morons killing people because they burned the Koran, that we have a few of our own 'lowest common denominator' people, and whether it will be cited as a reason or not, I doubt this had nothing to do with revenge for Afghani a-holes who can't get over that its just a book.

Well ... howsoever one would like to differentiate between ideals of one religion vs the other; the fact is that religion is so gullible to violence. The worst violence is always done in the name of religion moral and values.

Only when we will learn to look at humans as humans will this madness stop.

As per religious right in this country - they should be ashamed of themselves to be hijacked by the corporate war profiteering and waging wars that have no basis other than plain old stealing.

Obama is commander and chief of the armed forces. Why hasn't he brought our troops home from afghanistan like he said he would? This is all Obamas fault. The only reason why obama keeps us over there is to allow more of our troops to die so we can suck resources out of that country. This is all obamas fault.

Sorry obama you have lost my vote this election. You broke your promises.

Why is there's even a debate about this one? Really - regardless of political leaning or position on war, what rational human being is OK with the cold blooded murder of children?

I mean, this wasn't a mistake or too-fast pull of a trigger in heat of the moment at a check point or any of that. We're talking a dude who went to people's homes at night and killed sleeping kids. One would have to be a total scumbag and pisz poor excuse for a human being to even hint at an attempt of a search for a justification.

Really - if you're OK with this, you need to do the world a favor and kill yourself, because you're not that far off from turning into (if you're not already) a Ted Bundy or Wayne Gacey or Jeffrey Dhamer type of serial killer with a stash of cadavers buried in your backyard or sealed up in your freezer. Do the planet the kindness of shuffling off the stage b/c you're not worthy of the oxygen you consume.

OMG, I can't wait to move to Canada!

Here's my wild-ass, or wild-brain, response. No one, soldier or civilian, should be excused from killing innocents, especially women &/or children of a different nation, different culture. The "especially" comment here is proposed because such sinful &/or sick acts inflame enmity between the two nations/cultures, inflame enmity between two groups of millions of people; it's somewhat similar to what in the U.S.A. is termed "hate crime" against an entire subgroup of our society (sexual preference, race, religion, etc.).
From another perspective, soldiers are highly stressed (living in foreign conditions; anxious about assaults on their lives; perhaps sleep-deprived; surely deprived of normal human living with their spouses, children, extended families, & communities; perhaps commanded with the immensely difficult charge of balancing [1] respect for a very foreign culture & its local folk, [2] searching out planted explosive IEDs, [3] sorting out who among the locals are neutral or supportive or secretly strategizing how to kill or in other ways defeat the foreign soldier(s); [4] trying to do a job (which they HAVE NOT really been trained for) of building a native community coalition with our forces as foreigners; [5] using dehumanizing lethal force (which they HAVE BEEN totally immersed in training for) when judged necessary; and [6] being the life-saving back-up support, heartfelt mutual support, for their buddy soldiers and even their guiding commanders or their demanding commanders. On top of all this, they operate in a culture whose languageS are radically different from our soldiers' native languages, whose long-standing cultural norms and religious beliefs are somewhat Martian compared to our soldiers' own, and they've likely heard stories of a child or a women killing some comrade(s). Not to mention that field soldiers are underpaid, their spouses/families may be struggling with finances and health care expenses back home in the States, and the soldiers may be worried about their spouses tiring of being alone and going off to find a new mate/lover.

Still, murder of innocents, especially of foreign innocents, is not to be accepted, and any offender must suffer prices of justice. I'd ignorantly suggest, from the U.S. culture's perspective, life in prison without parole --though in such cases of killing multiple innocents, including women & children, the death penalty might appear appropriate. Given the last paragraph's list of stresses for soldiers, I do not think that the death penalty is appropriate for rank-& file soldiers. But this is not enough justice to fairly respond to the local community (& nation) upon which the horrors of war, including deaths of innocents (& not just "collateral" deaths in the midst of a firefight!), have been visited -- so I must sadly suggest that --at least in some cases-- the offending soldier's superior officer should be subject to the death penalty, to be carried out by American officials in a public place in the country where the inexcusable murder of innocents took place. This sad possibility of a supervising officer's capital punishment should: (1) increase the likelihood that all supervising officers will not excessively push their subordinates, and remain vigilant of the subordinate soldiers' needs for support [or --if a soldier is showing signs of instability-- removal from the "battle" zone]; (2) increase (in cases where soldiers feel some allegiance to and respect for their supervising officer) soldiers' self-control of any violent retaliatory impulses, lest they be responsible for the death of their supervising officer; (3) provide strong evidence to the local society that the U.S.A. (3a) considers unreasonable death of innocents as totally sad & unacceptable, (3b) deserving of contrition & some kind of penalty of justice, (3c) that the stressed foot soldier deserves compassion and is not to be made into a token scapegoat offering, and (3d) that our U.S.A. military recognizes that such sad occurrences are a responsibility of our military organization, as well as recognizing that such events are gravely deplorable, so thus the chain-of-command must should the heavy responsibility, so that there will be greater future institutional military efforts to prevent any similar events. War is cruel, not glorious, and to conduct it with as much humanity & integrity as possible, we must be willing to show our values & respect for all lives, especially those of native innocents.

sorry... in the 4th line from the end of my post, correct it to read: "thus the chain-of-command must shouldER the heavy responsibility, so that there will be greater future institutional military efforts to prevent any similar events."

Wow...so many comments with stars collapsed by the community because what is in them is "not politically correct"or along with the lines of the moderator. Did I wake up this morning relocated to Iran or North Korea where they sensor everything...or did we forget this is the fundamental freedom that makes discussions like this possible. Oh wait...sorry...I forgot...I am in Newsvine. Relocated to wrong site...click error.. have not had my coffee yet... My boo.

I want to know why we keep putting soldiers at risk instead of finishing it, these countries are small, carpet bomb the place leaving nothing but rubble, then go in take out whatever resources can be had and sell off the rest of the useless land to whoever will buy it, the resources and sale pay the expenses of dealing with them, any others in the region will then think twice about there actions before making threats or or supporting those extremist that want to kill alll westerners who dont follow the koran!!

When you watch crowds of people cheering that the TWIN TOWERS were destroyed, many burning american flags while cheeering death to americans, You will save many more lives if negotiating from a position of strength, not looking weak! Why did Iran stop with Nuclear testing before? Its because they were worried when we entered Iraq that we would continue into Iran. why are they continueing it now, they are not worried about us. quit putting are soldiers at risk and bomb the crap out of the area. Only then will they stop when they worry that we will stand against them and not just say "that is wrong, you really should stop" while doing nothing else about it but APPOLOGIZING THAT WE CAUSED THEM TO HAVE TO KILL OR MEN.

Our men get captured, tourtured, and beheaded and there is an outcry about this??? NO the outcry is over waterboarding a few of them, or putting dog collars on a couple, or a couple Korans were burned. And all the while more of our men our killed by those they are training and working with, All the while our great president is appologizing to the entire region for what HE percieves to be offenses against them.

They strap bombs to women and children to kill soldiers at checkpoints, they use suicide bombers to try to blow up airplanes full of women and children, and yet they claim no religion alows this then turn around and will justify it as a holy war???

Sorry Fedup, but Clinton responded with cruise missiles and CIA assassination attempts. It was the teabaggers in Congress who criticized him for obsessing TOO MUCH on Osama Bin Laden.

Outrageous!!!

The Government/NATO does not Apologize and send condolences to the families of Afghan civilians who were killed.

Obviously, our Government/NATO doesn't know how to carry on a War, and get the hell out.

The Civilians could have been used as protection against The Terrorists; human shields?---Anger for the US/Quran, or a threat to our own Soldiers. No one really knows the full story. Details; we need details. It is Sensationalism again against our Military.

Poof--this is one stupid War; and it is not being conducted Professionally by their Commander in Chief.. Gen. Allen could be part of the problem. We've already had 3 Generals fired.

If we are so sorry, then let's get out---Exit Strategy made up yet?

Glen-1484791

Wow...so many comments with stars collapsed by the community because what is in them is "not politically correct"or along with the lines of the moderator. .

Glen. It is not necessarily"not politically correct" comments that are getting collapsed. And it is your fellow newsviners that are doing the collapsing. I am not sure what you consider to be not politically correct in this case. Either your for murder or against it. There are no cases where a murder is justified. A soldier murdered does in no way justify the murder of an Afghan.

If by politically incorrect you mean comments saying that there was justification for this brutality, why would any sane person take that viewpoint?

A Soldier is accused of killing 16 civilians in Afghanistan, and this thread as expected has devolved into an attack on a former president, and the current one mostly by people that claim to support troops, and the U.S., when in reality they're using this as just another excuse to spew their hatred.

FedupwithFed mostly Saudi Arabs flew those planes into the Twin Towers, not Afghans. Saudi Arabia spreads its Muslim version of the Koran, which is one of the causes for terrorism and their backwoods mentality

The soldiers in Afghanistan were perpetually targetted and assassinated by Talibani dressed in civilian clothes. These are no less tragic that the 16 civilians killed yesterday. The soldier snapped and targeted Afghanistan civilians becasue he cannot tell the difference between those who shoot at him or plant roadside bombs that blow up his vehicles or those who are just civilians.

The only reason the US is there is because of the explicite complicity of the Taliban to the culture of terrorism. The Taliban hide in a complicite civilian population and make sniper assassination against the US. The US was forced into the war to protect its civilian populations, its air transportation, and its monumental architecture against Islamic thuggery.

If the Afghani want the Americans to leave, they need to terminate their love for the Taliban and Al Qaida.

If they fire from civilian targets dressed in civilian clothes, we will see more soldiers snap.

The soldier who fired the shots is to blame for the deaths, however, the Islamic fascists and their civilian support structure make the act morally enigmatic.

No big deal It was just people. Now if he had shot 15 Korans, we would have to leave fast

Insurgents wear civilian clothes because they don't have the guts to make themselves known. Afghans want fairness? Make your combatants recognizable. If not, deal with the consequences.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Someone forgot to tell the Islamic terrorists who do this on a daily basis. I guess they didn't get that memo.

Terrible story- The guy cracked under the constant pressure to work with both hands tied behind his back and just sit and watch as his friends get picked off while the Talliban grows again. It's time to get out.

Also, sadly if he was to claim that he saw someone damage a bible and he was outraged it wouldn't matter. There is no leniency for anti-Christian acts as there is for any acts deemed anti-Muslim.

Get out of Afghanistan and let e'm do whatever it is they do...to each other but not to us.

Gee, I don't recall being in Afghanistan on September 11, 2001

War is hell. War is worse than hell. Politicans armchair quarterbacking the war(s) create an untenable situation. You either engage in war to win and do whatever (within the Geneva code) to win or you get the hell out and stay out. Or else you hire mercs to go in since it's not really a 'war' but rather a 'game' conducted to accomplish some vague and idiotic notion of 'country building' or else a means of squandering trillions of dollars in bribes and kickbacks for defense contractors and corrupt regimes.

Osama dead, now leave and don't look back.

Joe Veteran:

Hatred?--This War has gone on way too long, and what is the success rate?---it is not hatred, but it is time to get out of a Primitive Country who do not want any type of Democracy. Illiterate, abandoning their own positions in Afghan Military. Running away from fighting for their people.

They want to be left alone, The Taliban, Terrorists killing their own. The US has done a fantastic job of keeping the Taliban out of America. The Taliban aren't interested in Americans, but only there to take over Afghanistan, and the Opiate Fields of which Karzai is mostly a cooperating Member. Do you see him crying out about the Civilians?---

War is War. Ally Military do not pick and choose who they will kill. They are there for a purpose, and they themselves, (how many Americans) have been used, kicked around, and died for no solid reason. What is the progress?

I will apologize to the families of our US Military for being abused by this Government in place. Another Viet Nam. No one cared about the over 55,000 soldiers who had died for a cause that is not known. The US will be dealing with more Military Post Traumatic Syndrome than ever before, along with much mental illness among them.

This is Viet Nam---Lyndon Baines Johnson, President----amping up the War in another Region. What is the Government's goal?

What for?

Toasty

Bill Clinton warned America in his radio address that we should not overreact to the 1993 WTC bombing. "I would discourage the American people from overreacting to this," Clinton said.

Bill Clinton treated it as a petty criminal offense even though Bush 41 told him terrorists had declared war on America.

CIA director Woolsey now reveals that he never had a private personal meeting with Clinton during the first two years of his tenure as head of the CIA - exactly the key period in investigating the 1993 attack.

Bill Clinton did not visit the WTC towers.

Bill Clinton did not even make a public appearance on national television.

Bill Clinton tried to stop a reward fund for the capture of terrorists involved in the attack.

I am alarmed at how easily comments are collapsed by the community. It removes the integrity of an open discussion. I do not agree with all of the posters that are collapsed, some I think are very confused, however it is their opinion and could be the seed that stimulates meaningful discussion. Stop collapsing so many comments due to personal sensitivities and try to think from other people's perspective. That will be far more productive.

I wanted to chime in on a couple of observations. This story doesn't have a lot of confirmed facts. It has a lot of allegations, and doesn't even know of the US soldier that did this.

War is terrible. Sometimes in war soldiers break and kill civilians on purpose. Most US soldiers I know of try to help the locals in Iraq and Afghanistan, most try to follow the "rules" they've been set to follow.

I did find it comical that these civilians say in no religion does it say one should kill women and children, but terrorists did exactly that on 9/11. I think its odd that Americans and extremists from terrorists groups think its ok that American civilians are killed without justice, but it's a terrible crime and tragedy when an American kills civilians. The world will be outraged, there will be more fallout, and more death.

The reality is this - killing of civilians on either side is reprehensible and should be dealt with swift justice. If our soldiers must follow their religious laws and respect them there and HERE in the US they must respect our ways too. It is a two way street.

Just because they're Islamic and from another part of the world doesn't mean they're not just as culpable or intelligent enough to know the consequences of their actions.

I feel terrible anyone has died in this conflict. I wish it were a simple matter, but it isn't.

We never should have been in Iraq, and we should have tried harder to just bring those to justice responsible for 9/11 and the previous terrorist attacks against US civilians and soldiers throughout the 90s.

We should also hold accountable our corrupt politicians and corporations that perpetuate these conflicts in both the US and abroad.

They will only be held accountable when the people decide to rise up in unity to do that.

Hawaii2 Right on!!!! Right on!!!! Right onn!!!!

BRING THEM HOME! And then, we have to provide them with the very highest quality care to help them heal. We have to move past the macho baloney that encourages combat veterans to deny that they need help. In addition to the incalculable costs to the lives of these veterans and to those who love them, this care and treatment will cost billions of dollars on top of the billions of dollars we have spent on the wars over the last ten years and will go on and on for 50 years. It should be at least that long before anyone has the nerve to suggest that we embark on another "foreign intervention" involving troops on the ground. BRING THEM HOME!

Hello folks, we can change this perception and history of America but first we have to accept what we have become. Remember all of these wars and aggression towards other countries is being done in our name. Let's stop this madness. It begins with a thought of world peace and then manifests in to reality. Right now, what is your intention, peace or war?

As hard as this is let's look at our history and record:

We have been a country for almost 236 years and have been at war for 210 years!

The Revolutionary War – 1775 – 1783

The War of 1812 – 1812 – 1814

The Mexican American War – 1836 – 1848

The American Civil War – 1861 – 1865

The Spanish American War – 1897 – 1898

The Indian American Wars – 1775 – 1918

World War I – 1914 – 1918

World War II – 1941 – 1945

Cold War 1945 – 1992

The Vietnam War - 1962 – 1973

The Invasion of Grenada – 1983 – 1984

The Invasion of Panama – 1989

Operation Desert Storm – 1991 – 1992 (Kuwait)

Operation United Shield – 1992 – 1995 (Somalia)

Operation Determined Falcon – 1998 – 1999 (Kosovo, Albania)

Operation Enduring Freedom – 2001 – 2012 (Afghanistan)

Operation Iraqi Freedom – 2003 – 2011 (Iraq)

Operation Freedom Falcon – 2011 - ? (Libya)

Operation World Peace – 2012 - It starts right now, let’s change our history!

Red faced extremists have a problem citing Bill Clinton, because he undertalked the threat of the WTC bombing, and then later actually did something about Bin Laden first. At the time he was accused of 'wagging the dog.'

So if you believe in little cowboys wearing white and black hats, I'm sorry, but real life doesn't fit into your tiny 'one party is good' world of yours over there.

Which might have something to do with why picking one political party over the other, all the time, just makes people sound stupid.

go and take a hike with your peace buddies why dont you go and preach peace in iran or sirya niwitt....

Khalid Why do people like you think, because you are a card carrying Muslim, koran toting, American hating person, that we all believe in killing anyone much less children. The Taliban and Radical Muslims have killed more children than any Soldier could have ever thought of. Why don't you condemn them. Why don't You move from our great country. These guys in the Military did NOT ask for this. Blame the Koran and the Taliban.

I suppose Santorum thinks we shouldn't apologize for this, either?

BikeBoy - These guys in the Military did NOT ask for this. Blame the Koran and the Taliban.

Wow, that has to be one of the worst examples of "blame the victim" I've seen for a while.

So, according to you, these women and children "deserved" this because they're Muslim?

How unAmerican.

Time to come home, plain and simple. And this guy who shot the civilians? Prosecute him!

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

======================

Maybe he should let his fellow Islamic extremests know this as they seem to have no problem with killing women and children.

No Apologies are warranted because they did not Apologies for killing our soldiers or did I miss that one, this is how it should be handled if they are going to harm our people our people have the right to protect themselves with deadly force. If they don't like it they should NOT try too harm our troops .. Do I feel any Sorrow for those that were killed, NO .... And I'm a Democrat that is feed up with the BS of turning the other Cheek, Obama will most likely Apologize but that politics and policy which is his job but don't mean I have too LIKE IT ...

As a 20 year, NUMEROUS front line combat Veteran I am qualified to make the following observations: 1) We havent had, and DONT have ANY reason whatsoever to be ANYWHERE in the middle east, over the past 21 years, other than Israel. They HATE US THERE, and they DO NOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT PEACE, until they are FORCED to by Jesus Christ's Reign in te 1,000 year Millenneal Kingdom. 2) When our troops are CONSTANTLY being sent back for MULTIPLE combat tours. When they see these HEATHEN afghani people MURDERING our troops over a RIDICULOUS, UNHOLY QURAN, (SATANS BIBLE) is is just a matter of time before they SNAP, and you have what you have here in this article. Am I saying it was ok to kill women and children, because you are angry...NO, BUT WE HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING THERE ISN THE FIRST PLACE AND NEED TO GET OUT YESTERDAY AND NEVER COME BACK.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Asurus:

Should, should, should, should of.

There is no quarterbacking hindsight in any situation of War. Whatever happens, happens. War is for the Soldier/and their Commanding Generals to determine who is the enemy, and if they are in life's danger of being killed.

War is not pretty---Picking apart the Afghanistan War is not a good idea. Did the US Military Veterans of World War I and World War II ever complain?---Communication back then was non existent to American Citizens trying to find out information. All of them are Patriots to the United States.

They did their job to the best of their ability---who else would sacrifice their own life to protect Primitive People such as the Afghans and others in the Middle Eastern Countries, who do not appreciate invading their countries. Let them kill each other. The Dictators such as Assad must go, as did Mubarak, Gadhafi, Alwalki (Terrorist Leader), Osama Bin Laden, and Saddam Hussein.

As in the Persian Gulf War, under George Herbert Walker Bush, we were in and then out--the job was done.

Wars do not last over 11 years of intense fighting. That is crazy--who wins?

too much sympathy for this individual, winning the hearts and minds of the civilian population doesn't come from blowing their hearts and minds out of their bodies in cold blood

Lokay

The smartest person on the net wrote, "Are we gonna smoke um peacepipe?"

Are we gonna smoke, hesitation, peacepipe? For being the smartest person alive you sure sound dumb.

Rick - they did not Apologies [sic] for killing our soldiers

These weren't soldiers, Rick. They were women and children murdered in their beds.

If you're okay with that, I frankly don't want to live in the same country with you.

Yes Fed, and after that he lobbed cruise missiles at OBL and set up a task force to take him out, and the teabaggers attacked him for it.

UnRealAmerican You said it not me. I did not say anything about killing a Muslim deserved or not. All I am saying is we did not go to war to get killed over burning a BOOK. The Taliban use the Koran to kill anyone they consider not Muslim. I am NOT blaming the victim. I am blaming the Taliban for all of this crap.

Why don't U make good use of your time and brain power and write the Prez and tell him to get us out of this crap.

Wow lots of collapsed comments here. But the ignorant masses are what really doesn't surprise me. You have your typical Obamadrones blaming Afghanistan on Bush solely (while ignoring a majority of DEMOCRATS in Congress voted for war authority...as constitutionally mandated, unlike what Obama did in Libya).

The last time I checked my calendar, Obama has been in office for over three years now (and God willing this will be his last term in office with November results). Afghanistan has gone from a bad situation to an even worse situation under his presidency. That is an undisputed fact. Obama however is not solely to blame. He is surrounded by advisers and military personnel just like Bush was. Clearly there is a great disconnect between what our original mission was (removing the Taliban from power) and what is going on now (attempting to create a democracy of free people).

It's time to either wipe the slate clean with fresh ideas or bug out entirely. The USSR spent ten years in Afghanistan and they have nothing to show for it - it was their Vietnam. We've already had one Vietnam experience due to mismanagement/micromanagement of the war that was really fought from Washington and not the rice paddies.

Oh, and this is off topic, but I'll go ahead and bring it up since we have a liberal audience. You remember how the libbies wet their beds over the "Mission Accomplished" banner when Bush landed on a carrier in a Navy S-3 Viking? (For you Obama voters, that's an airplane with a hook thingie on the bottom). It wasn't Bush & Co. that set that up. It was strictly the Navy's idea. And at the time the mission was accomplished: removing Saddam from power. Just thought I'd throw that out there for a little education in facts.

Mike in A-Stan, you got it right,son! I am thinking this soldier is a grunt. Posters here have no idea what the grunt has to bear in doing the job. NONE. Rules of war only apply to those not fighting it. There are no rules for the grunt except that a grunt is only as good as the man next, in front, behind, above and under him. A grunt does only for his guys and his guys only do for him. Everything and anything outside his guys is less than nothing. The second a grunt does for himself, his guys pay. The second one of his guys does for himself he pays. Plain and simple. Those dictating the direction of war are those unwilling, unfit, asking for the impossible from the damn few who are tasked to do the job. The grunt (trigger-pullers) deals with any and all dynamics in combat while everyone not fighting sits back and watches. If you ain't or haven't been a grunt in a kill or be killed situation you don't count. Button pushers in Uniform don't count either! I am surprised many more situations like this hasn't occurred. Grunts can not differentiate the enemy as they live among the populace. Gone are the days of the enemy in uniform. All are suspect, ALL! Even the children as this is a religion that gets kids to do dirty work in the name of Almighty Allah. Ever had to drill a kid in a boomer suit running towards you before being set off remotely by someone among the populace? Ever have to deliver a baby in the nearest piece of shade and two days later that happiest father of that newborn son is raining lead at you? And I had it nice compared to most in the suck!! You non-grunts and ignorant posters, live with that each and every day for a couple of years, then your words will mean more. Walk that talk in the Middle East and Southeast Asia like the so damn few will ever do. This is what war does to grunts pulling the trigger on all sides of the battle. Is what this grunt did right? Under the guidance of what is in his mind and experiences as a grunt that no one here will ever understand? Of course not!! Murder is murder. As a former Corpsman/Designated Hitter, 2nd Marines, Black Holes, war is but extreme mass murder. If you weren't there anything you say don't mean nothing to those damn few who have!! I don't condone what this soldier did but I understand the mental mechanisms as well as the environment that fueled his action against these civilians. I truly do as do the damn few who've borne and are bearing the walk today as a grunt. Mike in A-Stan I salute you and your guys holding the line that no other does. Get home alive, son!

It's a tragic and despicable crime but then so was invading Afghanistan in the first place.

Bush committed the original crime and then Obama added to it by activating a "surge" of troops in Afghanistan.

There was nothing nobel or Idealistic about the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, wars and occupations. It was an imperial war in order to dominate a region of the world rich in minerals (for instance OIL).

Unleashing a bunch of mostly young guys who have grown up playing video games like God of War II, Man Hunt, Postal, etc.

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-2.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-5.html

from a society in which the popular culture has generally demonized people from that part of the world as "terrorists" it's no surprise at all that this would happen.

The people who sent them there want them to have this kind of attitude even though they would never admit it in public.

During the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi officials and military personnel after WWII they ruled that the act of starting an aggressive war was the original crime from which all the others flowed.

They held civilian officials responsible for this.

Bush and Obama should be on trial before the Hague but of course they won't be (unless people wake up).

Bush and Obama should be on trial before the Hague but of course they won't be (unless people wake up).

Nonsense. Not unless you include every single Republican and Democrat congressperson that voted for war authority as well. And if you really want to dig down in BS, put on trial everyone who voted for those politicians too. But my hunch ArchStanton is that you wouldn't want to do that.

(From post above) Sobi: "William Whitmore, I agree. That is precisely what crossed my mind as well. They must feel like they [she means our soldiers] are in hell, among primitives, and the president demonstrated his complete lack of concern for them."

Yeah, If I were an Afghan I'd feel like I was "in hell", too.

Video games played by young americans (mostly guys probably, who go in the military and are posted to places like Afghanistan):

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-2.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-3.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-0.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-7.html

You know what, I do not care! I am tired of making apologies to people who hate us, kill their own children for wearing blue jeans, kill their women for showing their face or worse getting raped and bringing shame on their families. I am tired of fighting for people who live in the middle ages and do not care for us.

One thing both the Bush and the Obama administration do not get is that these people do not want democracy as we know it, they want a theocracy. They support everything that is anti-western, anti-freedom, anti-christian, and given the chance would kill us with no more remorse then killing a stray cat.

Then we have people and a administration that want to throw the only truly democratic country over there (the only one that did not have people dancing in the streets on 9/11 and do not have government funds going to schools teaching that we are the devil). Why do we do this? Oil. Yet we have enough oil sitting in our own back yard that environmentalism will not let us drill for. We have a administration that has openly stated that they want us to be at the same price that Europe is for gasoline (I do not know about you, but I do not like the idea of paying $8.00 and $9.00 a gallon for gas, not to mention what it will do to our economy).

And what happens, you silly liberals act like horses with blinders on your eyes, going where ever the press and the administration tells you to go. We give up our freedoms for what? The president promised to shut down the prison in Cuba, it is still open. The president promised a more open and civil government, then turns around when he has a super majority and tells the republicans to go to hell, passes bills without telling us what is in them, pits people of classes against each other in class warfare, and sits back looking like he is not doing anything (which is exactly what he is doing). We have civil rights and equality set back by 50 years by this administration because they have gone to the practice of calling any one who does not agree with their socialist agenda as racist. And if you do speak out against him as a minority they call you a uncle Tom.

We need to take back this country, tell the environmentalist that drilling for oil has become a matter of national security. If we are going to go into debt then lets do something with the money other then give it to people and organizations that support this administration (put it into repairing our highways, put it into a crash program for a viable alternative energy so that thirty years from now our children are not stuck with burning candles and riding horses). Let's cut off money to all governments that do not support us, stop all shipments of food to all oil producing nations that artifically jacking up prices to take from the very people that saved their countries form invasion when Bush Sr. was in office.

And last, if you really wish to deal realistically with the problem in the middle east, then arm all the factions equally, let them at each other, and in the end all the radicals will have killed each other and we will have a less populated countries to deal with, less radicals to deal with (and if we find them deal with them quickly and deadly), and tell the countries either you come into the 2000's or we will drag you kicking and screaming, we will imprison your monarchies, your radical leaders and give the money and the right to rule back to the people.

Best post of the day, Tbenton. You won't be seeing any snarky liberals debating that post. I will add a point that liberals refuse to acknowledge or even know about: that $860 billion "stimulus" bill Democrats rammed through congress and signed by Obama in 2009 that was supposed to keep unemployment from going above 8% was just about the same amount of money we had spent to date on Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. You know that bill that was to have created those "shovel ready jobs" and all. You know that bill that went to Big Green energy companies like Solyndra that are now bankrupt. Democrat ideas are the south end of a north bound donkey.

One more thing, instead of having our children die, give Israel a aircraft carrier, give them aircraft, support and they will more then happily deal with these radicals. Instead you watch paliwood productions and take it as fact. What you do not know is these radicals are cowards, otherwise why are not they strapping the bombs on themselves instead of children. And we like sheep allow the news and the white house to turn us from the only true ally that we have their. And what do I here, we were attacked during war by accident by their planes (which they paid and apologized for) and we have done the same. But we have people here that would throw the only check to balance out the region under the bus for what? Nothing more then you are a bunch of coward anti-Semites that should be ashamed to even show your faces.

Jhawke

Many people didn't vote for war when they voted for Bush and Obama. Especially in the case of Obama they were voting for what they thought was a complete change from the previous administration (which started those wars).

Even in the case of Bush many didn't vote for an invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought they were voting for less government, including less government involvement and intrusion in other countries.

When politicians are running for office they don't highlight or make clear the things they really intend to do because mostly those things are not popular (like bailing out the banks or invading another country or increasing troop levels in another country).

The things political candidates really intend to do are usually the acts that powerful interest groups like Wall Street or the Israeli lobby want them to do and give them money in return for promises behind closed doors, to do.

Mike in Afganistan I also salute you for what you do. I also believe everything is the truth of what you say.

Why are we really there. There is NO good reason why we need to be in Hell. Everyone is getting killed for what reason. Men, women, children no matter the regilion nor faith should be killed due to faith or the act thereof.

We need to leave just to save ourselves and stop the killing. If they kill themselves at least they can't blame the U.S. All they know is what they have learned.

I have learned we, the U.S. NEEDS TO GET THE FU%^&&*K OUT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Thirty people were killed in protests and Afghan forces turned their weapons on U.S. soldiers, killing six."

They just got done killing almost twice as many civilians themselves as well as some of our soldiers over a book.

Apparently killing is only a problem when it is not done by their own hands.

Any time you stoop to the enemies level, you have lost the moral high ground.

Murdering civilians and using drones for assinations is as much terrorism as was the attack on the world trade center. Murdering civilians is, perhaps, not policy but murdering with drones certainly is.

The sad thing Jhawke is that much of the stimulus money was put away and not to be touch until the end of last year and this year for one reason, to make it look like Obama was creating jobs. The reality is we are not at 8 or 9% unemployment but if you count the people that have run out of benefits and the ones that have finally given up we are at 19%, look at the food stamp records. This president and his party has borrowed more money and put us into more debt then all the president from after Truman on combined and what do we have to show for it? And do we hear anything about this, of course not. The truth is I do not support either party, I support America, the parties sadly do not support this country anymore but only their power base.

The truth is that both parties stink, they just stink differently. It is time for either a radical reworking of both parties or get rid of them and bring in a new party/parties that actually care about this country. And bring in term limits so we can get rid of the professional politician and bring back the citizen politician.

From the article:

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

This man is either out of touch with reality, in complete denial, or an out and out liar! Someone needs to make every effort to show him pictures of the aftermath of his muslim brothers bombings worldwide showing dead women and children.

This is one of the things that makes me so angry...the ability to point a finger and scream foul when found guilty of not only doing the same thing, but being the one who did it first and set the stage for others to imitate those actions!

FedupwithFed

In response to your saying how we should have explained the logic of why we burned the Koran's....I do agree with you about the why.

Unfortunately logic does not fit into a society that has a cultural history of only allowing the learning of literacy based on a book that contains the teachings of an illiterate goat herder.

A book based on the scraps of notes written on anything available. Then put all together in no topic or even chronological order but solely on the length of the note that survived......yes I simplified the process but in the end of the book....this how it was written and continues to get published.

When politicians are running for office they don't highlight or make clear the things they really intend to do because mostly those things are not popular

That's exactly right Arch. That's why Obama voted "present" in so many legislative rulings while in Congress. He was - and is - politically smart enough to know that one way or another his yeah or nay vote would be used against him. With Bush however you pretty much knew where he stood as a straight shooter. He meant what he said and he did what he said. Not so with Obama. The guy has even upstaged Bill Clinton as a political chameleon...and I didn't think that would ever be possible again.

The truth is that both parties stink, they just stink differently. It is time for either a radical reworking of both parties or get rid of them and bring in a new party/parties that actually care about this country. And bring in term limits so we can get rid of the professional politician and bring back the citizen politician.

Again Tbenton, you nail it. Washington has become nothing but a feeding frenzy of power and corruption. When you really peel the onion back, there is no difference between modern Democrats and Republicans. Both are neck deep in special interests, corruption, greed, and arrogant power trips. I'm getting real tired of holding my nose and voting Republican because the Democrat offerings are worse (and we've seen how with Obama). Not only is our unemployment MUCH higher than the stated 9%, our real inflation is more like 8%. They are cooking the books big time much as the Clinton administration did which we saw the effects of from the 1999-2000 recession.

It's beyond sick to read so called "Americans" excusing and even applauding the murder of innocents by an American soldier in uniform because the victims are not American. If some of you mindless members of the mob were around in Vietnam long ago, you no doubt would have applauded the Mi Lai massacre, excused it as "pressure",and insisted the US has no right to expect any American soldier to act by the US code of conduct in war time. The shock of watching Americans act that way was enough to turn the vast majority of good and decent Americans against the war who'd thought only "peaceniks" opposed it. Reading comment after comment applauding murder by this out of control soldier who by these reports gunned down unarmed civilians in their own homes, including women and children, leads anyone with a sense of decency what has become of this country. I just have to keep reminding myself that "they deserved it" neanderthals here finding excuses aren't and never will be the majority in this country even if they are the first and loudest with their megaphones.

i wonder why that soldier specifically chose to open fire into that one particular domicile ...and not the others?

When you send your soldiers into war, you can safely assume it is horrific on many levels. For me, you do not condemn one of our soldiers on the first article. The details have not come out. These troops need us to stand by them, right or wrong.

More importantly, these troops deserve us to stand by them, right or wrong.

And when our president takes up apologizing for burning books accidentally after our guys die for it, the troops need us more than ever.

wow toasty, didn't know the tea party was around in 1993!

The Unraveling of Afghanistan Relations - co-operation, cordiality and common goals etc.

We have but two options now -

1) we stay the course....this entails being subject to further loss of lives, more war profiteering at home, draining our treasury and mortgaging the future of our youth and our country, much more too many negatives to mention so many negatives.

2) we come home police our borders and keep our eye on the nuclear threat of a terrorist attack. This saves lives, saves a pile of money needed here at home, takes out the blood suckers that get rich on needless wars for profit, concentrates our attention here at home our borders and burnishes our image around the world. We can keep track of them in this new world order and be out of Afghanistan.

Yes, don't argue political ideology, regilious ideology, commercial interests or attack Obama to politicize this issue is a canard and smoke screen for what is really gong on. The reasons for being there have worn thin soon to be twelve years and counting, we have Bin Laden sleeping with the fish - Okay?

We have morphemed into an occupying force in league with the special interests and just as we rejected King George so too are these people rejecting us. We have long had the means to track terrorists around the world without the need to be in Afghanistan: what is really going on here?

I think of an exportation of secular and peaceful moderate Muslims out of that religious hell hole would be in order soon. These are tribal people just as in our country, the backwards thinking is manifested in the popularity of this religiously frivolously loose lips huckster Santorum, the proclivity is to suppress the freedom of others, especially women and children.

Time to come home and right the ship at home...a novel idea...but maybe that would only be exchanging one hell for another.

Clearly the soldier was mentally deranged. If he is ever well enough to realize what he has done, he will not want to live. Imagine the family of this soldier and their pain knowing their son has gone insane and they will never the know the son they sent off to war.

A friend recently called me to let me know she had a nervous breakdown and had been hospitalized and hence why I had not heard from her. It was work related. Frankly, she still sounds unhinged. She wasn't fighting a war, so imagine how easy it is to go nuts in a war environment.

If you haven't walked the walk of mental instability you have no idea what I am writing about. I hope you never know.

Here is the question that needs addressing. The Muslim doc that shot up the soldiers in TX, was he unhinged or was he doing his duty to take out soldiers that conflicted with his religion? So are the two incidents the same is what I am asking?

Back when the Koran event occurred, I saw some footage of one of our commanders talking to a room full of our soldiers. He was encouraging them to hang on and do their job. I might be crazy, but they looked confused, worried, and yes angry if body language means anything.

Bush went into Afghanistan to take out the training camps. Pretty much that happened quickly and then we left. It is true that the Taliban stepped up presence there and thus Obama decided to fight the "good war". This is proving to be a big mistake. We got OBL which I am assuming was at least somewhat of a target, but IMO the damage in the region between the US, Pakistan, and now Afghanistan is much worse. I will say this again. There is no GOOD war. Obama spent a lot of money, human lives, and long-term relations have been made worse just to get ONE bad guy that was irrelevant at this point.

But it isn't really Obama I have a problem with. I have a huge problem with the democrat party that bashed Bush daily during the Iraq war, but have remained extremely silent during all this fiasco. The media as well has treated Obama and Bush very differently which is very, very wrong. Obama never speak of the war where so much bad is happening, and yet Bush was made to talk about Iraq on a daily basis.

The media is ruining our country. They are letting this war escalate into madness and saying nothing because they want to protect Obama. What will it take for those same bashers to step up and call out this president to talk about issues he wants to avoid. This is NOT good leadership.

Pay no mind to toasty, he's just trying to fill molly ivins shoes, rip.

"Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

If that was truly the standard your countrymen lived by, you wouldn't have our troops in your country now. Instead of expressing outrage and bringing him to justice, you chose to make Osama into a hero and role model.

I was in Vietnam, so here is my take. The game is Winning the Hearts and Minds, that is now impossible.

Yes, I have noticed that toasty like the liberal press will just add dates to attack a movement of mostly 40 to 70 year old middle to upper aged Americans that have had one or two accounts of some radical in it's midst that was quickly thrown out. Yet why isn't he yelling about the destruction of our the taxpayers property by the liberate wall street group that is the darling of the liberal press, or the rapes and acts of extreme violence; the only way to find this out is to look at the local news and police reports of where they are at and you will find their is a great upswing of crime wherever they are, but not one word has ever been stated by the press. Talk about shooting the hand that feeds you. Let's attack our employers (I owned quite a few businesses a couple of years ago, and to be honest, with the current administration I would not grow or do anything with my money other then put it in off shore accounts. It seems that this socialist government we have in power now needs to look at the old USSR and see what happens when the government starts running the companies and does not encourage free thinking and climbing up on the economic ladder, you get nothing but run away inflation and stagnation, because their is no reason to work harder. Look at what the unions have done to every thing they touch now, they used to be wonderful (protected the worker) but now they only care about their own power base and putting forth their world wide socialist government nonsense.

And back to the subject of the soldier going crazy, why is it that Muslims seem to have such a extreme double standard, to them it is OK to kill and murder whoever they wish in the name of Allah, then dare to say it is the same god as the christian and Jewish God, but the God that I know does not find this a good thing killing children, we are taught to love. I feel bad for the families that had to suffer at the hand of this soldier, but I bet their is not one Muslim that has lost a ounce of sleep over our people that have lost loved ones at the hands of Muslim extremist, instead they hide, help, and obstruct our justice department from finding them. And then the countries that are our so called allies are funding them. With friends like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the rest of the Muslim world, we do not need any enemies, we are having to much problems trying to protect ourselves from our so called friends.

Stop the wars! Stop the killing!

Just hand this murderer over to the Afghans and let them tear him limb from limb. Bring the rest of our troops home now, before they all go completely nuts.

Jensen, We never had a chance of winning any of their hearts, we are nothing but infidels to them. We mean nothing more to them then a dog or a cow, something to be used and then thrown out. Until we understand that this is the mindset of the whole middle east then we will never get anyplace. For you that want to act superior and yell about abuses and the Geneva convention; personally I think this should only apply if the other side is following it as well. I am tired of having our sense of civility and equal rights used against us. If you in in country or out of this country and not a citizen and openly advocate killing Americans then you should be labelled a enemy and treated as such. I do not believe that much can be gotten form torture, but their have been counts of the heads giving up information, so with them do what ever you need, because I do not care if you pulled out their finger nails if this is what it takes to save American lives, they would not give a rats @ss about it so why should I!

Hmmm... Tbenton, I agree with you. The U.S. is in a bad situation, because we are playing their game with our rules; and, it is not an even playing field. The U.S. cannot drag a 12TH century civilization into 2012.

However, if this news item is accurate, what this soldier did is very [i]dishonorable[/i]. Even for a time of war.

I am a veteran, and I am aware of how slowly and cumbersome the wheels of military justice roll. In this particluar case, there should be very swift justice in response to the senseless murders of mostly women and children.

This dishonorable soldier should be tried, found guilty, and executed immediately, if not sooner. The best way would be to have a public, "burn him at the stake" event, so all the nearby Afghan people could witness the event.

Then, we need to get out of Afghanistan - ASAP. Burn or destroy everything we have to leave behind. We could be out of this 12TH century hellhole by May 30TH.

What made the guy flip like that?

@ MGrinder, I agree to some extent. A lot of veteran's are facing homelessness, and increasing thoughts of suicide. The younger soldiers, and even those just freshly retired are also in a different state of trouble that the U.S. government refuses to address properly. They are seeking that level of adrenaline rush that they had over there, and some have PTSD. HOWEVER, the government is VERY good at replacing any limbs loss, and making life somewhat comfortable for them, though there should be more done. It really is a shame. Mental issues are just as bad as physical wounds.

This is just sad . . . we should pull our troops out. But we won't, which is just going to create more animosity.

Hand him over to the Iraqi people. He doesn't deserve any sort of justice other than that.

As a 20 year, NUMEROUS front line combat Veteran I am qualified to make the following observations: 1) We havent had, and DONT have ANY reason whatsoever to be ANYWHERE in the middle east, over the past 21 years, other than Israel. They HATE US THERE, and they DO NOT AND WILL NOT ACCEPT PEACE, until they are FORCED to by Jesus Christ's Reign in te 1,000 year Millenneal Kingdom. 2) When our troops are CONSTANTLY being sent back for MULTIPLE combat tours. When they see these HEATHEN afghani people MURDERING our troops over a RIDICULOUS, UNHOLY QURAN, (SATANS BIBLE) is is just a matter of time before they SNAP

Wow. What a good christian you must be. And we wonder why they think our military is anti-islamic?

This guy snapped for some reason. But, it was only one guy that went nuts, and this @!$%#head Karzai calling it an asassination and trying to get this countrymen stirred up is pure idiocy on his part. If we pull out of there Karzai is a dead man. Besides, Karzai knows that more people die in one car bombing than this, no matter how bad it is. We should just pull our people out of there and let the Taliban kill that @!$%#head Karzai. We are not making a difference over there, and if we have further terrorists develop in that area we need to deal with them using special ops, drones, air strikes, etc.....and eventually the new leaders will maybe get tired of all the air strikes and put a stop to it. If they leave us the hell alone, we should leave them to hell alone.

If the Obama admin. classified the 2009 Ft. Hood, TX, base massacre by Muslim Major Hassan Nidal a "workplace action" and not a hate crime: ( see http://nation.foxnews.com/ft-hood-shooting/2011/12/07/obama-regime-calls-ft-hood-shooting-workplace-violence ) then I'm certain Eric Holder will have as good an excuse for this recent action, happening 3 years later.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Oh the hypocrisy.....

You people really freaking scare me. You can somehow rationalize anything in your own minds. He murdered 15 people. There is no justifying that. Some other people, of the same nationality killed 6 soldiers, so this soldier is justifying in killing random women and children?

Cops work in some bad neighborhoods and are always fearing for their life. Most times, neighbors will stay silent and not cooperate with police. By your standards, cops are justified in going on random shooting rampages in those neighborhood. But no, that is different, because those are Americans. Those are humans, apparently Muslims aren't human in your minds.

The soldier needs to be tried for murder. If not, we are no better than the terrorists we condemn. Don't give me that 'war is hell' crap. Without some basic rules of warfare, the world will certainly destroy itself. Otherwise don't bitch and moan when enemy soldiers poison our water supplies, killing millions of civilians, use rape as psychological warfare, and drop a modified small pox virus in downtown LA.

Well, they were just called "Republicans" back then. That was before the name change. I will say, that was a good marketing move; "Tea Party" is a much catchier name.

Even if you train soldiers, you can't teach them to fight like this..I mean a too goody good type of war.

Go in then get out..If you have to go back whatever.

This is really a mystery to me! How one of our young hero's, probably a nice young man who played video games and listened to the radio and watched TV, could do something like this!

Oh, wait a minute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDYy_LF4iE4

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-2.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dae6Sl5O4

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-3.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ocBSP_D940&feature=related

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-0.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm6lfXyEL7o

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/4282-7.html

You do not throw away a soldier because you feel like what he did makes you look bad. You do not judge a soldier in a field of war without first hearing what he has to say. You never turn over one of your own to the enemy unless you want to abandon the whole concept of having a defensive army.

William in 1.2 and the 128 sick individuals that voted him up,

You should be seeking immediate psychiatric help, you obviously have serious mental stability issues judging by your completely off the wall comments.

This soldier is just another stain on the honor, pride, and history that is our military. Court marshaling him would be a start to smoothing things over pending a criminal trial if he in fact kill those civvies in cold blood.

There is no way this was justifiable though. Only one soldier, sneaking out in the cover of night wo kill people in their homes? The army does not operate that way, if it was a sanctioned mission there would have been a team not a single individual.

Something tells me we need better mental and psychological screening before we let people join up. The last thing we need are trigger happy gun nuts in the military that would be willing to kill someone just because they are in front of them, like William near the top.

I'm always curious about collapsed comments and what on earth a person might have said to cause the action. In the case of FatCat @ #1.1, I think I can safely say the reason for the punitive action against him is simply that his words hit too close to the truth to be comfortable to read for most people here. These would be the same people who decry FatCat, accuse him of wild generalizations and then quickly turn around and spout the same kinds of generalizations against Arabs and Afghanis. I can only shake my head in wonder at the hate and vitriol spewing forth here.

And, on another subject:

sobi: "... These troops need us to stand by them, right or wrong.

More importantly, these troops deserve us to stand by them, right or wrong.

And when our president takes up apologizing for burning books accidentally after our guys die for it, the troops need us more than ever." #1.159

WHAT???? "... right or wrong ...? NO! America joins with the United Nations in the belief they are doing something RIGHT! It is in no way acceptable to support and defend someone who does something Wrong! Would you stand up to defend the soldier who shot and killed these civilians were he standing on a streetcorner in mid-America when he perpetrated this homicidal act? Of course you wouldn't! No sane person would or could. Just because he is in uniform overseas does not make his actions any less heinous! Consider that, although people are in uniform (military or, stateside, police) does not make them infallible. Psychotic, anti-social, maladjusted people wear those same uniforms. It is not easy to stand in front of a rank and file of uniformed personnel and pick out the ones who are likely to commit anti-social acts. But, when they do, we have a responsibility to those honest. integrity-based individuals working around them, to weed them out and treat them as we would any other criminal. That means, when someone murders innocent civilians, we have a duty and a resonsibility to punish them for their crimes. What is deserved is for Americans to have the dignity to accept we are, none of us, perfect but we continue to strive to be as good as we can be. And that includes knowing that the people who represent us in other countries, be it as civilians, politicians, or military, they will always be held to the highest standards of conduct and will be held to a higher standard. And that includes Staff Sergeants who kill civilians of another nation, which that soldier is supposed to be fighting to protect and defend.

And, as far as those who keep saying the soldiers 'accidentally' burned copies of the Q'ran. These acts (and, mind you, this occurred more than once and was in no way accidental!) were perpetrated by the same kind of mentally maladjusted persons and they should be dealt with in like manner ... destruction of another person's property is against the law.

And it doesn't matter what the laws of the victims may dictate. We have a law of our own by which we are held accountable. Every American should be able to hold his or her head up proudly and know that the Americans fighting overseas are not only defending the rights and homes of others but are doing it with integrity and honor and respect. Those are some good words ... INTEGRITY ... HONOR ... RESPECT. Everyone here should go look them up in their dictionary. Learn them. Possess them. Own them. Make them the guideposts for every decision you make in your lives.

And that does not mean burning holy books or wantonly murdering civilians.

Yes, right or wrong. Stand by your own. Support your troops. Reserve judgement until the fact are in. Yes.

This is not the first time a soldier has gone "off", this is a crime against all humanity. I know, as you do, Americans would be screaming for the death penalty, if he had done this HERE. It doesn't matter that he killed innocent people in another country he needs to be held accountable with no psychological excuses, unless it can be proved his commanding officers knew he was crazy, in which case, they should be held accountable.

Serial killing is serial killing, no matter where, when or who is murdered.

sobi

You do not throw away a soldier because you feel like what he did makes you look bad. You do not judge a soldier in a field of war without first hearing what he has to say. You never turn over one of your own to the enemy unless you want to abandon the whole concept of having a defensive army.

According to the report this soldier turned himself in. This soldier will never see combat again even if he turns out to not be guilty. This soldier threw himself away. If he is guilty, in my opinion, he is simply a mass murderer. You are saying don't hand the soldier to "the enemy". Who do you perceive as the enemy here. We are supposed to be helping the Afghanis. They aren't the enemy. Well they weren't supposed to be. But we have turned them into it.

Okay, for the sake of argument, let's say he did "go off." Do you all run out and retract all the nasty things you've said about him? Do you ensure that none of the other troops hear you go off on him without a second thought?

How can they trust us if we don't trust them?

I'm new to Newsvine, so if this appears as a reply to someone else's comment I apologize, but this is actually in response to FatCat's original post:

I agree with you all the way up until the second to last sentence in your post. To say that we are no longer a consumer-based economy is beyond ridiculous. We may have been a war-based economy during the Cold War, but to say we are more of a war economy than a consumer based economy now is just false.

There are no innocents in a war like this. Everyone is involved to some degree and everyone is a civilian unless a member of the military. Much more to this story!

Facts first, judgment later. Simple concept. Presumably, an American concept though there's no way you could prove it, what with all evidence being to the contrary.

Unfortunately a child raised in a fantasy world will eventually strike out at those around him/her.

Before yesterday the CIA listed the Afghan population at 30,419,928. This soldier just wasted 16 of those so that leaves 30,419,912 useless humans to be eliminated before the Afghanistan problem is resolved.

If we aren't willing to finish the job, then get the hell out of afghanistan now.

Numerous INNOCENT women and children....

I tend to like women...and go WAY out of my way to help children!

WAR IS HELL ON EARTH!

Truly a sad day for all concerned!

I think this a part of a larger problem, and will not be an isolated incident. Perhaps this was an extremely wrong cry for help since no one here seems to be listening.

I have heard some say that the military is treating psychological problems in the troops with drugs and sending them back into service like that will take care of their problems.

I have also read that after the Quran burnings, new rules of engagement came form the top that prevented soldiers from protecting themselves.

These soldiers are being used as cannon-fodder for politics. I argue, even though it was wrong to kill women and children, there are larger issues at play that no one seems to recognize or care about. There is a reason that Ron Paul has received more donations than all other candidates, including the President, combined. He will end it. And yet, nobody listens. A thousand soldiers and vets march on the white house, turn their backs on the President, and give a salute to their fallen brothers in support of Ron Paul, and no one listens. I have seen threats to the administration that states the President is not living up to his promise to end the wars, and if he doesn't, it will be handled the hard way, but nobody listens.

Yes, this was a terrible thing that happened, but we would be remiss as a nation to not question, if the SGT is sane, why he followed this path. Perhaps, since no one is listening, the grunts as some have called them are taking matters into their own hands. First, you have a book burning knowing it will inflame the Afghans and Americans calling for an end of the war. Then, you have a rogue soldier killing 16 Afghans, which will enflame the Afghans and Americans calling for an end to the war.

If I am right, things will get worse until politics won't matter any longer, there will be a breakdown in the military and this will end worse than it already is.

BikeBoy - off the medication again? :D

We seriously need to just GTFO of that country.

There is a reason that Ron Paul has received more donations than all other candidates, including the President, combined. He will end it.

You need to not post bulls*it that is obvious wrong and easily verified as wrong.

Ron Paul's total campaign donations: $30,868,051

Obama: $136,886,599

Romney: $62,706,797

Perry: $20,007,596

Santorum: $6,689,808

Gingrich: $18,142,387

and on and on.....

Total amount from all the people who started this race: $284,006,009

So you either

A. Fail at basic math, or

B. Make sh*t up to support whatever agenda you have.

Anyways feel free to educate yourself.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/head2head.php?cand1=N00009638&cand2=N00033131&x=40&y=40

http://www.fec.gov/disclosure.shtml

Sorry if I did not include the word "military" in front of donations. That is easy for you to check also. So bite me.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

As much as I dislike religion, I can't help wondering why so many people are critical of this statement. Just because some Muslims think it's ok to kill anyone they want, it's wrong to assume that every single Muslim agrees with them. People do tend to interpret their religions differently. There are Christians in this country that support gay marriage and Christians that hate homosexuals with a passion. It isn't really fair to judge everyone in a particular group by the behavior of some members of the group.

just another white guy going nuts. happens all the time here in the US.

in fact it would be really strange if a week has gone by and something like this hadn't happened.

why can't it be like the old days when they only shot their family and committed suicide.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

religion is what these people have been killing one another over long enough, dont think its a good statement to make....those terrorists that flew planes into the world trade center were religious, killing civilians and anti american...theres nothing humane about killing anyone even in war, but maybe necessary for survival in certain situations..

Taz, rules in war are only for those like you and most posting here with no experience on the subject to add a spine to an opinion and not doing the fighting. Don't equate cops as they're not under fire and rarely does their tool of the trade ever leave their holster except at the firing range. The Grunts in green use the tool of the trade more often than you use toilet paper. The only rule for war is not to have one, but that's too far fetched for those mongers out there. No one prays for peace more than the grunt that has to face the enemy on all sides. I don't condone what this soldier did, murder is murder! I can understand why and how his actions against civilians came to be. You don't because you've never lived that life where everyone is suspect, where the enemy lives among the civilians and a religion that gets children to do the dirtywork. There is never a justification for such a horrendous act! Any acts! Humans in a war are changed by their experiences and there are severe actions that take place as a result of being a grunt. Some go off at the deep end, etc. I'm surprised that many more atrocities haven't occurred. Rules in war are for those unwilling and unfit to do the fighting. It is the opinion of this former Corpsman/Designated Hitter, 2nd Marines, Black Holes that the only rule for war is not to have one in the first place. Been there and done that, have you?

For those who have forgotten.

During Dec 2001, Bush Jr and the UK turned the Afghanistan 'Nation Building' to the UN and 52+other Countries...

It was OBAMA that DOUBLED the US Troop levels & then DOUBLED them again.While also placing his 'Hand Picked' Generals in charge of the operations. Doing this whilethe CIA was stating that there were less than 100+Al Quaida in Afghanistan...

While also CHANGING the US Policies on the use of 'Armed drones' by the CIA. Which has KILLED THOUSANDS of Innocents, if you read the Foreign Media, because the US Media seldom reports these...

While the US GROUND Troops are being held ACCOUNTABLE (as they should be). The CIA and the Military Officers who are also committing these KILLINGS are walking FREE...

The ULTIMATE responsibility rests with the POTUS...

Obama's direct actions have KILLED over TWICE the numbers of US Troops in Afghanistan during less than 2.5 years, than were killed by Bush in 8+years. Not counting the THOUSANDS of INNOCENTS killed by his Armed Drones...

The RETRIBUTION - 'Killings & Terrorist Acts' will be continuing for DECADES, against US Citizens and symbols of the USA...

Thank You - OBAMA...

Someone said that they did not want to live in the same country as me well move, do you think for a second that they would not kill our women and children, you need to grow the hell up this is not Walt Disney this is real life, War is hell not some sort of tea party with crumpets ...

Rick-3608408,

Maybe you should try living somewhere other than the USA for a few YEARS. Not just a Holliday...

Then you will see what the foreigners are seeing & experiencing...

A few of us have lived & currently live in other countries, after serving and supporting the US Constitution for DECADES...

Read the other countries Media sources and the other countries history books. It is not like the US Media portrays or the US history books tell you. Are they biased, SURE, just like the US sources...

YOU have to research multiple sources to find the TRUTH...

BTY - A professional soldier knows why, there are rules, regulations, and LAWS, that govern Modern Warfare. When you IGNORE these, you are no better than the TERRORIST, and are only prolonging the conflict...

I will tell you one thing, "Those people that have lost relatives, due to Foreign Soldiers actions. Especially, if they were INNOCENTS and children, their relatives will seek, REVENGE."

i knew what the republicans would comment so im not suprised at these comments but can you please stop making excuses and being hyprocrites. the dude killed childern and women. he killed 16 people! if you like that, fine but stop making excuses trying to justify this. seriously whats the difference between a terriost and this kind of stuff? one is brown, the other is white but both of you have the same mentality. kill for no reason.

imagine if the story was that someone burned his Bible and this set off the killing spree. If one religious group can kill for paper burning , why can't another?

@john-737278

Sorry if I did not include the word "military" in front of donations. That is easy for you to check also. So bite me.

It's not my fault you failed to provide an accurate statement. When you post something half*ss, expect it to get shot down.

And of course the military would donate to someone that claims they will "bring them home". I would have loved to come home early from my 2 deployments to the Gulf. It's great, till they realize Ron Paul plans to close every US base outside the US. And a quarter million soldiers are looking for new jobs. Our troop levels are setup to support the deployments of ships and troops overseas. Paul's "plan" is to end all of that, thus 1/4th of our armed forces will no longer be needed. First to go will be those 205,118 stationed in foreign countries. Then they start chopping divisions out of the Army and Marine Corps, since we'll only need them for 'defensive purposes'.

Rhetoric is great, till you actually listen to what the idiots are babbling. Then it's scary.

Of course we shouldn't be in there in the first place. The unmitigated idiocy of our foreign policy is mind boggling. However, we are and, this young man, allegedly committed an awful crime. We know that soldiers are under a tremendous amount of pressure and this guy might of snapped. However, I think if it were my family that was the victim of no less than a foreign invader. What would my reaction be?

Therefore, if it is proven that the young man did commit this crime then, he should be dealt with harshly in partnership with the Afghanistan government and the victim's family in terms of punishment. Many people might disagree with this but, the man killed 16 people. In addition, the U.S. should provide some compensation, I am talking big amounts of money, to help the victim's families along. I know money will never take the place of their loved ones but, it is all we can do now.

Lastly, we as Citizens of the U.S. should take some responsibility. We should not be involved in this war and, we are no less than invaders. We should take to the streets to get out of Afghanistan and to stay out of a war with Iran. Next, we need to elect leaders that will that have the attitude that we need to start minding our own d*&m business.

My sympathies to the families of the victims. Believe me, there are many in the U.S. that are outraged at this event and are clamoring to end this stupid war. Believe me, the common people of this country are not in charge anymore.

Glen1484791

I agree, what is with all the collapses, especially in the earlier part of the thread? I read some of the posts that were collapsed, Rockyroad #1.5; yakfitguy #1.17; Jrober21 #1.24; FedupwithFed #1.56.

I'm not saying I agree with all these collapsed posts, but, I don't have to, that's not why we collapse, is it?

The one I found really offensive was Lokay #1.19 "Tribal leaders. What? Are we gonna smokem um peace pipe?" That was apparently collapsed and then restored.

I didn't see anything, especially in Rockyroad's 1.5, that looked like it should be collapsed in the above listed comments. I'm really confused about how things get collapsed.

Hal,

From your post above regarding collapsing or comments, you said something about you are either for murder or against it. I take that to mean you either agree with what this soldier did or you don't; or you want him punished, or sent home to get help.

Whatever ones opinion of the situation of the soldier and the Afghan civilians is, as long as it's stated respectfully and the poster is not attacking another person, or making threats it should not be collapsed. I think that's what the Code of Honor says.

I don't think it's right to collapse a post because you don't agree with what's being said. Who is to say what's right or wrong? These boards are for opinions and viewpoints. If people are following the Code of Honor they should not be collapsed, no matter how unpopular their views are; or how much you or I, or a moderator thinks the views are wrong.

The problem exists because many people lack the ability to respectfully disagree with another person. They must lash out with insults, mockery, and in this case, collapsing a post. That's a particular pet peeve of mine and I don't hesitate to fire off a little message to Tyler or Sally asking them to take a look at a particular thread with an eye in mind to restoring some comments. Out of the half dozen emails I've sent over the years, they have responded to every single one of them.

What I would suggest needs to happen is to remove the "No Value" flagging option, or otherwise add an additional flagging option for "Uncollapse". Since it seems it doesn't take many people to get a comment collapsed (my guesstimate would be between 5-10 No Value votes) it should take an equal amount of votes to to restore a comment without the need to involve a moderator. Self policing our own community.

My original thought was to prevent any comments being collapsed that had a certain number of up votes, or restoring collapsed comments with enough up votes. However there are plenty of comments I don't agree with, but which I feel are being unfairly collapsed, that I would prefer not having to vote it up like I agreed with it, just to restore it.

I guess if we have to start comparing ourselves to them in order to justify our actions - we have truly lost more than than this insane "war".

Actually, Rob, I think the majority of us are guilty of exactly the reverse...'we' compare them to ourselves to try to find justification for their actions...that's why 'we' refer to them as ignorant, stone-age people who haven't progressed in the last 900 years!

It's kinda funny steel toed boot, they compared us like that a long time ago too.

Divine... when is this?

We are over there illegally. Plain and simple.

I'm talking around the crusades, we're the "stone-age people" and they were the "laser guided Rocket-age people". I don't know what you talking about we're not there illegally and its not plain and simple as that.

We are there illegally, since when do the actions of a small group of people entitle us to invade an entire country? It is also unconstitutional... therefore, illegal.

With this reasoning, the surviving victims deserve to come over here and murder us Americans for the acts of this one man.

If we're are there illegally depends on what you believe our main object there is, if it was self-defence because of the 9-11 attacks it was legal, if it was just because Bush went for oil it wasn't, as we have been theirs for 11 years, it has changed alot. But still the main reason i believe we are there is to get rid of taliban and oil, once we get rid of taliban the Afgan government can run without being overthrowed and oil would become cheaper because of that.

My reasoning is not that at all, i dont know what you got out of that to think that.

Poor soldiers are expected to have all moral, human rights and other big manuals while doing battles even in the craziest places.

It is easy to lecture to others.

What you or I would do under similar circumstances in their age?

To divine,

Afghanistan doesn't have oil.

Time to get out of that cesspool and bring our young men home. Who gives a flying rat if the Taliban take charge and start chopping hands and heads off? They apparently WANT this. Let's get out now and protect our own. Apparently their behavior is starting to rub off on our soldiers.

As the mother of active duty soldiers who have served in both Afghanistan and Iraq I cannot keep my peace on this. The man who posted he would have done the same thing is an idiot. Ditto for the fools who call our soldiers murderers. A single soldier broke under great stress and did something both horrible and foolish. To murder randomly is not good strategy. It is not going to help anyone. This was obviously a random act of violence committed by someone who was unstable. It is wrong but I am also not surprised that it happened. Such things are inevitable under the circumstances but I assure you my sons and all the other military personnel I have the privilege of knowing will agree it is an act of idiocy that will only make the situation worse.

The people who scream that soldiers are murderers are guilty of prejudice. Imagine if upon hearing that an African American or homosexual were to have committed the crime and then some idiot were to call all blacks or gays murderers. It IS the same. There are good and bad in all groups as well as weak and strong. Unless you have family or good friends who are in or you have actually served odds are there is a lot you will never hear about that our troops go through but I promise you one thing... for every soldier who breaks / goes bad / whatever you want to call it there are thousands of honorable young people over there who are giving their all under horrible circumstance who deserve your respect.

PJ: My hats off to you.

I hear what your saying, but THEY are not US. It is not in our culture to murder. This kid possibly set us back a decade in trust.

Past time to stop taking nutbag unemployed boys out of the trailer park - only to put them on the government payroll, give them automatic weapons and send them to kill citizens of someone else's country.

Divine-

...if it was self-defence because of the 9-11 attacks it was legal,...

It was never self defense. Afghanistan not only did not attack us on 9/11, they have never posed any credible threat to us. It was, in fact, mostly Saudi citizens involved in 9/11. The great lie is that we can prevent or stop terrorism by attacking any nation anywhere in the world. Terrorism based on an ideology has no borders or nationality, and for our "leaders" to pretend it does is only substantial proof that their motives are ulterior and most likely illegal.

Having said that, it is worth noting that we attacked Afghanistan because the Taliban "refused" to hand over Osama Bin Laden. Even if they knew his actual whereabouts (never proven), international law has ALWAYS forbid the incursion onto a sovereign nation's soil to effect an extradition that the government of that nation refuses to complete. Further, when Bin Laden was finally found and killed, he was unarmed, which is itself a war crime. Every rational argument can be made that both Bush and Obama are guilty of ordering war crimes. Only American jingoism and a superiority complex reserved for the arrogant empire we have become could possible try to justify what we have done there.

Uncle Bob-

Afghanistan doesn't have oil.

No, it doesn't. But what it does have is territory over which we wanted to build a major pipeline (the Unocal Project), and for which both the previous government and the Taliban refused to allow. This pipeline would have been stunningly profitable for American oil interests, but more importantly, it would have cut Russia out of the picture, thereby making the vast supplies of Central Asia easily accessible without Russian cooperation. The history of the Unocal project actually goes back to the 1970's, and American interests have been thwarted for all that time. The war against terror (a myth) and Osama Bin Laden were both horrible pretexts for the same old imperialism that has ruled our foreign policy since the Cold War began.

To divine,

Afghanistan doesn't have oil.

Afghanistan may not have oil but it has strong ties to countries that do. Everything we do in the middle east is directly related to oil, the fact that Afghanistan does not have oil does not change that.

Talibans recuiting US soldiers

Typical...

This is ANOTHER horrible tragedy in a useless, ignorant war.

This sick solder must be brought to justice for the death of Innocent civilians.

We should have been out of this mess 9.5 years ago.

(Actually, if we had a collective brain that functioned, we never would have engaged in Iraq or Afghanistan.)

____________________________________________________

Ten Companies Profiting Most from This War !

Posted: February 28, 2012 at 6:41 am

10. United Technologies (NYSE: UTX)
> Arms sales 2010: $11.41 billion
> Total sales 2010: $54.33 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 21%
> Total profit: $4.71 billion
> Total employment: 208,220
> Sector: Aircraft, Electronics, Engines

Hartford, Conn.-based United Technologies is a multicompany industrial conglomerate with subsidiaries that include elevator company Otis and refrigeration giant Carrier. The company also manufactures components for use in military aircraft and vehicles. One of its subsidiaries, Pratt & Whitney, builds aircraft engines for dozens of different fighter jets. Among the jets equipped with Pratt & Whitney engines are the F-22 Raptor and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the latter of which is being produced by the hundreds for nine different countries. United Technologies is also heavily involved in aircraft manufacturing. It owns Sikorsky, one of the largest helicopter manufacturers in the world. Sikorsky builds the popular UH-60 Black Hawk. Roughly one-fifth of United Technologies’ total revenue came from arms sales in 2010.

9. L-3 Communications (NYSE: LLL)
> Arms sales 2010: $13.07 billion
> Total sales 2010: $15.68 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 83%
> Total profit: $0.96 billion
> Total employment: 63,000
> Sector: Electronics, Services

L-3 Communications is a top contractor in fields such as communications, intelligence and surveillance. According to the company, its customers include nearly every defense, intelligence and security agency in the U.S., as well as allied foreign governments and commercial customers. Among its many products, the company produces the L-3 SmartDeck, a fully integrated cockpit system, and the AVCATT mobile aviation trainingsimulator, designed for the U.S. Army. Although the company’s arms sales have increased steadily for a number of years, their rate of increase slowed significantly between 2009 and 2010. The company’s rank among largest arms producers fell from 2007’s eighth to ninth in 2010.

8. Finmeccanica
> Arms sales 2010: $14.41 billion
> Total sales 2010: $24.76 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 58%
> Total profit: $0.74 billion
> Total employment: 75,200
> Sector: Aircraft, Artillery, Electronics, Missiles, Military vehicles, Small arms/ammunition

Italian defense contractor Finmeccanica is the largest high-tech industrial group in Italy. Partially owned by the Italian government, the conglomerate has a large array of products in six areas: aeronautics, helicopters, defense systems and electronics, space, transportation and energy. The company has formed dozens of joint ventures in Europe and the rest of the world. Notable Finmeccanica enterprises include helicopter manufacturer Augusta Enterprises, missile manufacturer MBDA and EuroTorp, the world’s leading antisubmarine torpedo manufacturer. In 2007, Finmeccanica was the number nine weapons manufacturer in the world. In 2010, it moved to eighth, with a 46% increase in sales over that time.

7. EADS
> Arms sales 2010: $16.36 billion
> Total sales 2010: $60.60 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 27%
> Total profit: $0.73 billion
> Total employment: 121,690
> Sector: Aircraft, Electronics, Missiles, Space

European company EADS, short for European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company N.V., is the second of three non-U.S. companies on this list. The corporation, which includes major subsidiaries such as Airbus, is a leader in aerospace and defense products. EADS has a 37% share in missile manufacturer MBDA, and is one of the companies responsible for the development of the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet. Only 27% of EADS’s sales are arms sales, which is the second-smallest share among the largest arms-producing companies. The company has a major presence in markets in the Middle East, North America, Europe and more.

6. Raytheon (NYSE: RTN)
> Arms sales 2010: $22.98 billion
> Total sales 2010: $25.18 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 91%
> Total profit: $1.88 billion
> Total employment: 72,400
> Sector: Electronics, Missiles

Raytheon is a Cambridge, Mass.-based American defense contractor. It is the world’s largest manufacturer of guided missiles and produces such widely used weapons as the AIM-7 Sparrow missile, the AIM-9 Sidewinder missile and the BGM-109 Tomahawk. The company is also responsible for the Air Warfare Simulation program used by the U.S. Air Force. In 2010, the company had nearly $23 billion in arms sales, more than 90% of its total revenue for the year. These sales were up 17% from 2007.

5. General Dynamics (NYSE: GD)
> Arms sales 2010: $23.94 billion
> Total sales 2010: $32.47 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 74%
> Total profit: $2.62 billion
> Total employment: 90,000
> Sector: Artillery, Electronics, Military vehicles, Small arms/ammunition, Ships

General Dynamics is an American defense company that deals in aerospace, combat systems, information systems and technology, and marine systems. Although the company has been around since 1952, it has enjoyed a resurgence beginning in the 1990s, thanks largely to a number of mergers. Since 1997 General Dynamics says it has acquired more than 50 companies. Over this same period, its revenue increased from $4 billion to more than $32 billion. It also added more than 60,000 employees to its workforce. Currently, 74% of the company’s sales are arms sales. General Dynamics owns Electric Boat and Bath Iron Works, two of the largest naval vessel builders in the world. General Dynamics is notable known for its Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine, the Seawolf-class submarine, the M1 Abrams tank and the Arleigh-Burke-class destroyer.

4. Northrop Grumman (NYSE: NOC)
> Arms sales 2010: $28.15 billion
> Total sales 2010: $34.76 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 81%
> Total profit: $2.05 billion
> Total employment: 117,100
> Sector: Aircraft, Electronics, Missiles, Ships, Space

Northrop Grumman is the fourth-largest weapons contractor in the U.S. The company, which is based in Falls Church, Va., is one of the leaders in aerospace technology and the leading producer of naval vessels in the world. The company manufactures Nimitz-class carriers that are the current flagships of the U.S. Navy. And over the next few years it is also set to build the new, $9.7 billion Gerald R. Ford-class supercarriers. Northrop Grumman also develops radar systems for aircraft and ground defense, sensor systems for a variety of vehicles and several unmanned aircraft and drones. Weapons systems sales accounted for 81% of company revenue in 2010. Arms sales grew by approximately $3.5 billion between 2007 and 2010.

3. Boeing (NYSE: BA)
> Arms sales 2010: $31.36 billion
> Total sales 2010: $64.31 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 49%
> Total profit: $3.31 billion
> Total employment: 160,500
> Sector: Aircraft, Electronics, Missiles, Space

As recently as 2007, Boeing was the largest arms producer in the world. By 2008, it had fallen behind Lockheed Martin and U.K.-based BAE Systems. The aerospace and defense company remains one of the largest in the world, however. Boeing is the second-largest aircraft producer in the world by deliveries, behind only Airbus. It is also the second-largest U.S. government contractor, procuring just under $19.5 billion in contracts in 2010. Major products produced by the company include the KC-767, an aerial refueling tanker, and the F-15 fighter jet. Boeing made less in arms sales in 2010 than it did in 2009, although arms sales made up a larger amount of total sales — two percentage points, to be exact — in 2010 compared to 2009. Even in 2010, however, only 49% of revenue came from arms sales, which is among the lowest rates among companies on this list.

2. BAE Systems
> Arms sales 2010: $32.88 billion
> Total sales 2010: $34.61 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 95%
> Total profit: $1.67 billion
> Total employment: 98,200
> Sector: Aircraft, Artillery, Electronics, Missiles, Military vehicles, Small arms/ammunition, Ships

BAE Systems is an aerospace and defense contractor based in the UK. The company has a major U.S. subsidiary, BAE Systems, Inc., which by itself would be the seventh-largest weapons manufacturer in the world. The British company was formed in 1999 through the merger of Marconi Electronics (which was at the time a subsidiary of GE) and British Aerospace. BAE produces weapons systems in nearly every major military category, including aircraft, defense electronics, vehicles, naval vessels and small arms. Among the company’s notable contributions are the M2/M3 Bradley fighting vehicle, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Type 45 destroyer and the Astute-class nuclear submarine. In 2010, 95% of its revenue came from arms sales, $32.88 billion in all.

1. Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT)
> Arms sales 2010: $35.73 billion
> Total sales 2010: $45.80 billion
> Arms sales as pct. of total sales: 78%
> Total profit: $2.93 billion
> Total employment: 132,000
> Sector: Aircraft, Electronics, Missiles, Space

Lockheed Martin is the largest arms-producing and military services company in the world, with nearly $3 billion more in arms sales than second place BAE Systems. Although military sales make up the majority of its revenue, it is significantly less than many other major arms-producers, including BAE’s 95% share. In addition to being the world’s largest arms-seller, Lockheed is also the largest federal contractor in the U.S. by a large margin. In 2010, the company’s government contracts totaled nearly $36 billion. Lockheed produces a number of major products, including the Trident missile and the F-16 and F-22 fighter jets. Despite being the largest military service company on this list, Lockheed is only the fourth-largest company by overall sales among the companies featured on this list. In 2007, the Lockheed was the third-largest arms producer.

This tragedy NEVER should have happened if we had a real leader who kept his promise!

_______________________________________________________________

Barack Obama Promise to End War:

_______________________________________________________________
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. " - Barack Obama Campaign Promise - October 27, 2007

________________________________________________________________

What bank would that be Barack???

And why should we put any credibility at all in your koran burning apology, your forthcoming apology for this senseless murder, or any of your other many un-fulfilled promises??

We need a real leader so badly.

(Unfortunately, with the monkeys the republicans are running, we can look forward to 4 more years of Barack.)

DI

But still the main reason i believe we are there is to get rid of taliban and oil, once we get rid of taliban the Afgan government can run without being overthrowed and oil would become cheaper because of that.

You might want to read up on Sun Tzu's *Art of War*...the Taliban can fight for a Hundred years; and I believe Afghanistan is devoid of oil. You have been Hood-winked.

We are there illegally by our own constitution as we have been illegally in every war since Korea. Mr president the constitution is supposed to be inconvient for you it was designed that way by the founders for a reason.The greatest danger to American freedom never comes from outside the US. It comes from us when we allow our government to override the protections for us in the constitution.That document was designed to protect the people of America from its own government.

@ sk-nitroWV

___________________________

2 very good posts sk-nitroWV .

Well said. Thank you.

sk-nitroWV

Close the Fed - good post guys.

Something that not many people are awere off. The Afghans have already signed major and very large contracts with the Chinese and India for very large minerals resourses. And the US was excluded from those deals.

So Haliburton and there buddies have US kids dying for them and missing out on the deals they hoped for in Afghanistan.

Remember Lockheed Martin. They are realy pulling the wool over the Americans eyes with their JSF-35 stealth fighter. The US going broke and the government (tax payer) is going to buy the largest military purchase in the American history ever.

The only way to justify that for them is to have an other war.

Iran anybody?

@sk-nitroWV

You are right. If this was about terrorism we would have left this dam war after Killing Bin Laden. Why the hell are we still there. Are we now the police to the world again. I agree with Ron Paul. Get the fu$%^&k out of this god-forsaken land.

"ClosetheFed" - you and your friends here are paranoid, ignorant idiots. Not one of the above statements holds up to any kind of logic. By the way, NOTHING we do in Afghanistan (or the Middle east for that matter) has ANYTHING to do with 'oil'. Sk-nitro, you have grown fat and ignorant consuming Noam Chomsky's hate propaganda for so long you're a caricature of the leftie-living-in-your-Mom's-basement. The 'pipeline' theory in Afghanistan has been around as long as the 'GM killed the electric car' theory (or maybe even the 'Big 3 killed the Fish carburetor' theory.

Here's my wild-a$s, or wild-brain, response. No one, soldier or civilian, should be excused from killing innocents, especially women &/or children of a different nation, different culture. The "especially" comment here is proposed because such sinful &/or sick acts inflame enmity between the two nations/cultures, inflame enmity between two groups of millions of people; it's somewhat similar to what in the U.S.A. is termed "hate crime" against an entire subgroup of our society (sexual preference, race, religion, etc.).
From another perspective, soldiers are highly stressed: living in foreign conditions; anxious about assaults on their lives; perhaps sleep-deprived; surely deprived of normal human living with their spouses, children, extended families, & communities; perhaps commanded with the immensely difficult charge of balancing [1] respect for a very foreign culture & its local folk, [2] searching out planted explosive IEDs, [3] sorting out who among the locals are neutral or supportive or secretly strategizing how to kill or in other ways defeat the foreign soldier(s); [4] trying to do a job (which they HAVE NOT really been trained for) of building a native community coalition with our forces as foreigners; [5] using dehumanizing lethal force (which they HAVE BEEN totally immersed in training for) when judged necessary; and [6] being the life-saving back-up support, heartfelt mutual support, for their buddy soldiers and even their guiding commanders or their demanding commanders. On top of all this, they operate in a culture whose languageS are radically different from our soldiers' native languages, whose long-standing cultural norms and religious beliefs are somewhat Martian compared to our soldiers' own, and they've likely heard stories of a child or a woman killing some comrade(s). Not to mention that field soldiers are underpaid, their spouses/families may be struggling with finances and health care expenses back home in the States, and the soldiers may be worried about their spouses tiring of being alone and going off to find a new mate/lover.

Still, murder of innocents, especially of foreign innocents, is not to be accepted, and any offender must suffer prices of justice. I'd ignorantly suggest, from the U.S. culture's perspective, life in prison without parole --though in such cases of killing multiple innocents, including women & children, the death penalty might appear appropriate. Given the last paragraph's list of stresses for soldiers, I do not think that the death penalty is appropriate for rank-& file soldiers. But this is not enough justice to fairly respond to the local community (& nation) upon which the horrors of war, including deaths of innocents (& not just "collateral" deaths in the midst of a firefight!), have been visited -- so I must sadly suggest that --at least in some cases-- the offending soldier's superior officer should be subject to the death penalty, to be carried out by American officials in a public place in the country where the inexcusable murder of innocents took place. This sad possibility of a supervising officer's capital punishment should: (1) increase the likelihood that all supervising officers will not excessively push their subordinates, and remain vigilant of the subordinate soldiers' needs for support [or --if a soldier is showing signs of instability-- removal from the "battle" zone]; (2) increase (in cases where soldiers feel some allegiance to and respect for their supervising officer) soldiers' self-control of any violent retaliatory impulses, lest they be responsible for the death of their supervising officer; (3) provide strong evidence to the local society (3a) that the U.S.A. considers unreasonable death of innocents as totally sad & unacceptable, (3b) that the U.S.A considers unreasonable death of innocents as totally deserving of contrition & some kind of penalty of justice, (3c) that the stressed foot soldier deserves compassion and is not to be made into a token scapegoat offering, and (3d) that our U.S.A. military recognizes that such sad occurrences are a responsibility of our military organization, as well as recognizing that such events are gravely deplorable, so thus the chain-of-command must shoulder the heavy responsibility, so that there will be greater future institutional military efforts to prevent any similar events. War is cruel, not glorious, and to conduct it with as much humanity & integrity as possible, we must be willing to show our values & respect for all lives, especially those of native innocents.

Aaahhhh . such short memories. The Afghan war was CREATED to rescue a group of US missionaries who were sentenced to death in a Taliban court for teaching Christianity, which is forbidden by Afghan law. Conversion from Islam to any other religion is also a death sentence. The official reason to invade this country was because al-Qaeda had its terrorist training camps there, coutesy of the Taliban, true. As with any corporation, to sell its products or ideology, we were bombarded with an advertising campaign on every media imaginable to sell the concept of invading this country to fight Terrorism and to their credit they whipped the rest of the world into a frenzy, to rescue Afghans from these al-Qaeda, Taliban heathens. And while the rest of the world watched the fireworks, the sentenced missionaries were rescued and vanished from public sight. And while we say it is not a religious war, to the Afghans it is. ALL non-Islamic troops fighting in Afghanistan should NOT BE THERE by the virtue of not being Islamic. But that doesn’t matter anymore does it.

I said it a few years ago and I will say it again, China has been playing a chess game with the world. Decade by decade the slow growth of Its domination is reaching outwards. Kashmir will go to India, Northern Pakistan will be the gateway for China to truck Afghanistans minerals and ores that is desperately needs. French, Russian, American and the final desecration will be China. GETTING OUT NOW WILL NOT MATTER..Afghanistan’s borders, as we now know them, will not be the same in 10 years.

From the article:

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

This man is either out of touch with reality, in complete denial, or an out and out liar! Someone needs to make every effort to show him pictures of the aftermath of his muslim brothers bombings worldwide showing dead women and children.

This is one of the things that makes me so angry...the ability to point a finger and scream foul when found guilty of not only doing the same thing, but being the one who did it first and set the stage for others to imitate those actions!

PJ, please bear in mind that the folks posting here are ignorant. I posted earlier (#1.142) and found yours and gotta say my piece. Critics of those in Uniform are just that, critics. What they say is less than nothing to those like you and yours. When a soldier goes off to do the job that so many are unwilling and unfit their loved ones go too. When I served as Corpsman, 2nd Marines my loved ones went too. I couldn't imagine of imagining what my parents must have, and maybe still, are going through. I've never told them other than the usual song and dance a grunt does. Anyhow, when I returned from the suck only one was alive. Only then did I have an idea of an idea of what a mom goes through in a situation like yours. I miss mine. Lots of talk and no walk here. Stay strong because there ain't anything but strong in your words, PJ. Nothing like a real working experience on the subject to put a spine to an opinion, your words are of iron! I salute you and yours in Uniform doing the job none here criticizing are unfit and unwilling to do!!

"Thirty people were killed in protests and Afghan forces turned their weapons on U.S. soldiers, killing six."

They just got done killing almost twice as many civilians themselves as well as some of our soldiers over a book.

Apparently killing is only a problem when it is not done by their own hands.

pjam: We have rules of law in this country, including rules of war, and insisting we don't still doesn't make it so, no matter how you want to justify 'revenge'. These are US soldiers, not some mob, stoked by religious intolerance of the kind you just showed....Thankfully, our soldiesr are NOT under the control of someone like you who doesn't even understand rules of law and who would excuse anything including murder of innocents, as long as it's done by an American.

The whole "us versus them" mentality is so @!$%#ing stupid, I do not consider the American soldier(s) who did this one of us, they are absolutely nothing like me and they can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. Trying to justify their actions by saying "Well, they have done similar things to us" is just so dumb I can't put it into words. The nine children that were killed, do you really think they were ever guilty of doing anything like what was done to them? @!$%# no, so stop trying to justify it you stupid piece of @!$%#.

Harsh consequences, sad disciplinary action: If judged guilty, life in prison without parole plus perhaps public whipping in that village for the grunt soldier; and one of his higher ups (how high?) gets quick capital punishment, carried out publicly by our military there in Afghanistan, for this happening under his/her watch -- the grunt was molded into a lethal weapon by his training and the "culture" of the military, not to mention the dominant opinion throughout so much of United States homeland "culture" that Christians are valuable, Europeans are somewhat valuable, and all others on the earth are worth less than we, -- and the grunt soldier was surely overstressed (under the direction of his commanding officers) by many many many many harsh realities.

Bring our men & women home, preventing any more such tragedies, and treat them with sufficient financial, career, injury rehabilitation, and PTSD support.

Math+Sci+JusticeFuelProsperity - I'll ditto that: Bring our men & women home, preventing any more such tragedies, and treat them with sufficient financial, career, injury rehabilitation, and PTSD support.

And, for the "Sunday Morning Quarterbacks" analysis of why this happened & being judgmental as all get out? Time for a walk on Washington DC and demand that ALL WARRIORS BE BROUGHT HOME AT ONCE!

Blessings to those innocents who lost their lives in this tragedy, blessings to all Warriors who serve for all of us, and finally, my profound sorrow and blessings to the family of this man who killed the Afghans.

MikeBC-

Sk-nitro, you have grown fat and ignorant consuming Noam Chomsky's hate propaganda for so long you're a caricature of the leftie-living-in-your-Mom's-basement.

Whether my opinions are informed by Chomsky, Tolstoy or Jesus Christ does not escape the apparent fact that people like you are living in a simple-minded world of good v. evil, in which America can do no wrong. It is a bit like Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering said about it being easy to bring the people along by telling them that there is some external threat, demonizing the threat and anyone who questions or disagrees with the "party line."

Your Ad Hominem attacks reveal a lot about you and virtually nothing about me. For that argument, I am an MBA graduate and business owner. Not a big deal in the big picture, but certainly indicative of someone who has reasonable critical thinking skills. Oh, and Mom? She is 97, and living in a care home near my sister, far north of here. Her husband, my dad, was a WWII hero who told me a year before his passing (in 2005) that he did not feel that he and his many friends and fallen comrades went through the fires of that war to defend what this nation has become. Those were stunning words from a quiet and brilliant man. Having been raised by parents who lived modestly and who practiced the highest ethics, generosity and reverence to God, My resulting "liberalism," as you disparagingly refer to it, is a badge of honor I will wear proudly for the rest of my life. I believe we, as individuals and as a nation are called upon to live with a certain integrity we tragically currently lack. It is THAT lack of integrity, personally and nationally that is causing our discredit and decline. It is also an affront to all the brave men and women who "gave that last full measure of devotion" that we might still be here, some 236 years later, arguing over your myopic worldview, unmolested by zealots in or outside the government.

I hope life is kinder to you in the future than you are to me and others who disagree with you, both here and in lands far away. If some higher power stands in judgment over us for how we act toward others, I would advise you to work to correct the overdraft you so obviously now maintain.

sk-nitroWV,

I read three of your posts above. Very, very well-written. You would make a great teacher. Thank you for a rational post that has facts and explains those facts. Much, much better than just spewing venom and hate when disagreed with.

Thank you very much.

"Kandahar Governor Tooryalai Wisa said a U.S. soldier left his base in Kandahar on Saturday and opened fire on civilians"

The whole thing is blown up based on the statements of some of the most unreliable mad people on earth!

Similarly, soldiers can claim 100 things.

Unless there is investigation, nothing can be said.

"Kandahar Governor Tooryalai Wisa said a U.S. soldier left his base in Kandahar on Saturday and opened fire on civilians"

The whole thing is blown up based on the statements of some of the most unreliable mad people on earth!

Similarly, soldiers can claim 100 things.

Unless there is investigation, nothing can be said.

Sorry for the double post. Despite reporting "No value", one post has not been removed.

First an 'UNVOLUNTARY" BOOK BURNING

• it is the SECOND TIME OUR MILITARY GET US INTO TROUBLE.

With this kind of mistakes, DO THEY DESERVE MORE MONEY ? Our military WANTS ANOTHER WAR .

• this STARTS TO SMELL LIKE A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY.

@ Close the Fed

I don't agree with everything you believe, but I like that you bothered to post some facts to accentuate your points. I am going to investigate further.

However, I will point out, someone has profited from every war since war began. That's war. I'm not saying it is right or wrong. It's a simple fact. It isn't necessarily the catalyst to conflict though.

The social and civil events that can lead to war DO lead to companies profiting from war. Some wars were intentionally started for gain. I DO not think Afghanistan was simply instigated for gain. Terrorists DID attack the US. And we do have a right to justice, and those countries don't have the means to exact justice against those terrorists. Those terrorists don't represent any entire group, religion, region, country, creed at all. They represent themselves, and as such they're illegal in any nation on this planet. We have a right to justice too.

I have no qualms with the Afghanistan conflict, though I do see in hindsight how we might have avoided it. Hindsight is an advantage people didn't have in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It's true that most of humanity ignores the "big" picture and the future repercussions for various decisions. Humanity has been failing to "get it" since the dawn of humanity.

It's not right, but it is the way it is. We need to have a paradigm shift in thinking throughout the whole world in order for that to change.

For companies to stop profiting from war we need to break the relationship that our politicians have with corporations to begin with. We need to end the FED, we need to disrupt the actions of ALEC and like organizations, we need to stop legislation that only serves a particular group or people when it is at the expense of others. That isn't the America our founders wrought.

They didn't want partisan politics or corporate or religious interference for a reason. We have a mess because each congress and president and supreme court since has violated those principles.

People discount the founders for a simple reason, they mistakenly didn't protect equality amongst women and people of color. If they did, more would see the sound and impressive foresight they did exhibit.

Thank you for sharing your points BTW.

Wow...so many comments with stars collapsed by the community because what is in them is "not politically correct"or along with the lines of the moderator. Did I wake up this morning relocated to Iran or North Korea where they sensor everything...or did we forget this is the fundamental freedom that makes discussions like this possible. Oh wait...sorry...I forgot...I am in Newsvine. Relocated to wrong site. Click error...have not had my coffee yet... My boo.

Ya when I get stressed out I sometimes kill a dozen or so women and children, really helps me relax at the end of a long day.

Glen,

It's "censor" not "sensor." Your snarky comments are disingenuous.

Old scare and war mongers like John McCain and co have started their war drum beatings on Iran and Syria just like Iraq.

John McCain and his team should be stationed in Afghanistan and help the troops get out.

Probably then they will understand about the futility of new wars in Iran and Syria.

Time to bug out of George Bush's second ugly cowboy war (may he writhe in shame for all of his remaining pitiful days on earth), and stay out!

How about this for an amendment proposal for the constitution: Any federal official who wants a war ( congressman, senator,president cabinet member) must be able to show which of his relatives will be first off the planes in the battle zone.

1) Mr. Binkie: "They" have been trying to throw us out for over 10 years now.

2) Poster "Williams" is an idiot who talks a big game but probably harmless. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

3) It's easy to pontificate by asking the rhetorical (and obvious) question, "Could YOU look into the eyes of a little Afghan girl and pull the trigger?" No sane person could, yet many of us who condemn the insanity of this act would have no problem doing the same thing from 30,000 feet up, turning the entire place into a smoldering glass parking lot. The time is rapidly approaching that we must make the decision to either do just that, or get our soldiers maimed and killed and driven insane for no reason and no end in sight, or go home. This is the same situation we faced in 1969 when Nixon chose the middle course for reasons that still escape me.

It's time to fish, or cut bait.

Probably more like going postal.

Amen. The longer we stay, the more things like this and the Koran burning incident are going to happen. And if a draft had kicked in when we invaded Iraq, we would have been out of there pronto.

bicfi a lot of the troops in Afghanistan are national guard. six months ago they were plowing fields or working in factories.Their entire life at home got thrown up in the air then they got cycled through Camp Shelby and the "sandbox" and off to Afghanistan. They are worrying about family at home and having everybody off the base screaming for their heads. They aren't professional soldiers. They are what we used to jokingly call weekend warriors. That is your current army a small core of fulltime soldiers augmented by Nat Guard.

How bout rather than bringing back the draft, we just get the @!$%# out and stop destroying lives; the innocents over there and our not-so-innocent soldiers suffering from mental problems as a result of this @!$%#ed up war.

I agree. The facts should be the only thing reported, which would be responsible journalism. Anything else could and probably will make it worse.

Suggest you walk a day in the shoes of our troops before you go around calling someone an imbecile too.

The thing is, our enemy does not wear a uniform. They hide among children and women and wait for a perfect opportunity to attack. By the time our guys turn around and identify the shooters, all that is there is women and children. This guy must have been in one of those situations, and maybe one of his friends had been killed. The 5.56 round that they use litterally blows a massive maw of a hole in the body. That is not something you forget. This guy maybe thought that these women and children had killed his friend or shot at him; therefore explaining the event.

Sergey, that is an interesting perspective...

They hide among children and women and wait for a perfect opportunity to attack.

My thoughts are that this soldier "snapped", and I feel terrible for the families of these people. AND for him and HIS FAMILY!

Imagine not being able to walk amongst the villagers without worry that one of them was about to kill you!

Not ALL Muslims are Terrorists, but ALL "middle eastern" Terrorist's ARE Muslim's...it seems...

No excuse to kill all these innocent people, but NOT as Black or White as people would like us to believe!

Obviously it shouldn't be celebrated, but why not acknowledged? If we pretend that bad things like this don't happen then nothing is ever going to get fixed. I am disgusted and ashamed that we are still over there and these things are still happening; I am truly sorry to the families and for the innocent children who were brutally murdered.

God bless our troops who deserve it, @!$%# these guys.

Not acknowledged because we don't know the whole story. It saddens me to say that chances are he killed future terrorists and jihadists. You have to fight unconventional wars unconventionally.

We don't choose the world we live in. You have alot of growing up to do sad little man.

It should be acknowledged. Murder is murder and this man must be punished.

Nathan, you're the sad little man in this thread. And by the way ~ God doesn't kill innocents. He weeps for them. God created the universe. Humans ~ one species in one little place at one little moment ~ created the American flag. "God and country" ~ what a joke. That's like saying "Albert Einstein and gnat's turd."

I hope this soldier gets the care and attention he needs. He was trained to kill and sent over there to protect his buddies. Maybe he saw a few of his buddies get killed? Maybe he cracked? To just ignorantly say "he must be punished" or that we can't possibly give him any sympathy is just stupid. We don't know his surrounding circumstances. I hate to say it, but incidents like this are part of ALL wars. Doesn't justify it, it just is what it is. I say let the Taliban have their "innocent" civilians- bring our boys home. (Oh BTW- it's their "innocent" civilians that are killing our soldiers!)

There are NO innocents in a war zone....

He'll be tried and found criminally insane or mass murderer. Because of his actions, there will be riots and every western force in the region will be put in danger. I seriously doubt the US military will treat him kindly.

There are NO innocents in a war zone....

Many, many war crimes trials, beginning with Nuremberg, proved otherwise.

wonder if they should ask bush...how's that patriot thing work'n out for ya...you know them...nut's we couldn't control...they can't control either...LOL...poor people fight'n a rich mans war...

And somewhere in Corporate America, hotchas lay low counting all those military industry profits. Not a peep out of a single of these cowards who make war a profiteering industry using everyone else's kids but their own to do the dirty work.

It's time for an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan. We can do no more there. They do not want our version of democracy. They read it as imperialism.

Ultimately you're right but my favor continues to lie in the hell our troops live in preserving my lifestyle and God is in the human race directly this comparison of yours is invalid. I weep for the fact noble American soldiers break under the pressure of the evil they are bathed in from these terrible genocidal regimes and unending threats from the very people you are trying to help.

Our troops aren't doing anything over there to "preserve our lifestyle." Prove me wrong, please, but to most of us it is obvious by now that these wars do far more harm than good. And please, quit trying to portray all our soldiers as noble. I knew so many guys in highschool who could barely pass their classes and just wanted to go over there to kill some Arabs. Those people do not deserve our respect; I despise those types of people and if they happen to be killed over there then nothing of value was lost.

"This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Khan. "Nobody is allowed in any religion in the world to kill children and women."

Just what was it that happened on 9/11 again?

Really? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm had that entire region NOT covered for and hidden Bin Laden in the first place we wouldn't be there now.

Our men and women husbands and wives, sons and daughters are there for extended periods of time, not able to see, feel touch or talk to their loved ones. They are routinely told that they cannot practice their faiths * Christianity or Judism, and someone is surprised that this man snapped? Really? and now our fearless leader is apologizing. How about getting this soldier the help he needs?

Hand him over Obama, go ahead. Wait and see how fast this country can and will revolt!

plb I am honored to see you are able to spew your hate from the safety of your home that these men are fighting to keep safe for you. I suppose the point of them is to absorb your ignorance while fighting to ensure you have the right to be an ignorant mess.

sorry to jump in on your thread here, but I don't wanna be collapsed. Everyone here needs to take a look at autariate arsa's profile and comments. sounds like a ticking timebomb- NEWSVINE TAKE NOTE!

Well it's still relatively new, who knows in a few hours the editor could change it too terrorist and we'll be saying "go 1-man army".

The reality is that this is murder. With your reasoning, they now deserve to kill Americans anywhere because of this man.

Nice one, sukhotai ~ I'm sure those dead and wounded children were actually the "enemy" in children's clothing.

Time to pull out and let the Taliban take over. They care so much for their civilians- they would never do anything like this. And please, don't judge this soldier until we know everything about his circumstances. To do so is just ignorant.

You did read the article, right? So you do know that 12 of the 16 killed were women and children, right?

Here's my wild-ass, or wild-brain, response. No one, soldier or civilian, should be excused from killing innocents, especially women &/or children of a different nation, different culture. The "especially" comment here is proposed because such sinful &/or sick acts inflame enmity between the two nations/cultures, inflame enmity between two groups of millions of people; it's somewhat similar to what in the U.S.A. is termed "hate crime" against an entire subgroup of our society (sexual preference, race, religion, etc.).
From another perspective, soldiers are highly stressed: living in foreign conditions; anxious about assaults on their lives; perhaps sleep-deprived; surely deprived of normal human living with their spouses, children, extended families, & communities; perhaps commanded with the immensely difficult charge of balancing [1] respect for a very foreign culture & its local folk, [2] searching out planted explosive IEDs, [3] sorting out who among the locals are neutral or supportive or secretly strategizing how to kill or in other ways defeat the foreign soldier(s); [4] trying to do a job (which they HAVE NOT really been trained for) of building a native community coalition with our forces as foreigners; [5] using dehumanizing lethal force (which they HAVE BEEN totally immersed in training for) when judged necessary; and [6] being the life-saving back-up support, heartfelt mutual support, for their buddy soldiers and even their guiding commanders or their demanding commanders. On top of all this, they operate in a culture whose languageS are radically different from our soldiers' native languages, whose long-standing cultural norms and religious beliefs are somewhat Martian compared to our soldiers' own, and they've likely heard stories of a child or a woman killing some comrade(s). Not to mention that field soldiers are underpaid, their spouses/families may be struggling with finances and health care expenses back home in the States, and the soldiers may be worried about their spouses tiring of being alone and going off to find a new mate/lover.

Still, murder of innocents, especially of foreign innocents, is not to be accepted, and any offender must suffer prices of justice. I'd ignorantly suggest, from the U.S. culture's perspective, life in prison without parole --though in such cases of killing multiple innocents, including women & children, the death penalty might appear appropriate. Given the last paragraph's list of stresses for soldiers, I do not think that the death penalty is appropriate for rank-& file soldiers. But this is not enough justice to fairly respond to the local community (& nation) upon which the horrors of war, including deaths of innocents (& not just "collateral" deaths in the midst of a firefight!), have been visited -- so I must sadly suggest that --at least in some cases-- the offending soldier's superior officer should be subject to the death penalty, to be carried out by American officials in a public place in the country where the inexcusable murder of innocents took place. This sad possibility of a supervising officer's capital punishment should: (1) increase the likelihood that all supervising officers will not excessively push their subordinates, and remain vigilant of the subordinate soldiers' needs for support [or --if a soldier is showing signs of instability-- removal from the "battle" zone]; (2) increase (in cases where soldiers feel some allegiance to and respect for their supervising officer) soldiers' self-control of any violent retaliatory impulses, lest they be responsible for the death of their supervising officer; (3) provide strong evidence to the local society (3a) that the U.S.A. considers unreasonable death of innocents as totally sad & unacceptable, (3b) that the U.S.A considers unreasonable death of innocents as totally deserving of contrition & some kind of penalty of justice, (3c) that the stressed foot soldier deserves compassion and is not to be made into a token scapegoat offering, and (3d) that our U.S.A. military recognizes that such sad occurrences are a responsibility of our military organization, as well as recognizing that such events are gravely deplorable, so thus the chain-of-command must shoulder the heavy responsibility, so that there will be greater future institutional military efforts to prevent any similar events. War is cruel, not glorious, and to conduct it with as much humanity & integrity as possible, we must be willing to show our values & respect for all lives, especially those of native innocents.