Correct. It comes down to creative aggression on the suspect. After execution kills on are people, and their government only caring for cash; we should have retaliated against Taliban string holds and not the wrong people.........especially children. Get out now, get out quick, don't give Iran anything to aim at, and park a couple of nuc-subs off the coast. No boots on the ground. Totally different culture, not a different species, but definitely a culture that is not our child. Spend it in the USA.

There's little reason for us to stay any longer ....

Get out today or 6 or so months , or even a year from now ....

Were not changing much more at this point there ....

Bring all of our troops home ....

Let China and Russia try to keep them in line ....

And good luck to them ....

Joe, while you may not be "unenlightened" you are certainly an uneducated bumpkin in a number of ways. Tom makes some excellent points which you fail to acknowledge in any effort. Poverty and religion afflict numerous parts of the world, but unfortunately we're tied up in areas were violence and terrorism reign supreme in everyday life for the civilians. Our troops tried. This soldier's actions should not have occurred, but nor should the actions of Afghani suicide bombers in that country, right? Really, that should serve to Afghani positivity if we're looking at their history.

This is tragic for all involved. Just as a foreign soldier or terrorist guilty of civilian murders in the US should be subject to the US judicial system, if a US soldier did indeed perpetrate this crime, he should expect to face the judicial system of the country he is in. Murder is murder wherever & by whomever it is committed.

BTW, my son is in Afghan boots on the ground. He has respect for the Afghanis he has dealt w/ in their security forces. They fought to drive out the Soviets and now are fighting to drive out the Taliban/Al Quaida. People who make sweeping statements condemning entire groups of people often (not always but often) either have little to no first hand experience interacting one on one w/ people from that group and or are victims themselves of bigotry. It is to their lose because they are deprived of compassion and can only feel hatred and fear towards people who are different from them.

Tom...well stated. Get every American out of that horrendous, failed, corrupt muslim country now! Let them govern themselves and if the Taliban want to take it over and kill each other, so be it. Bring out men home now!

Yes, Tom--let's get out of that place where armies go to die. WWII war was the last war that needed to be fought. Our currency as a nation is at stake as well as the futures of generations yet to come. The only ones that want this war to go on are the arms manufacturers and the politicians that steer massive funds their way. We have no standing in the world as long as we act as if we own it.

As Commander in Cheif Obama has to take responsibility for this. The entire military suffers but the buck stops with Obama plain and simple. His policies are what the army is there to enforce.

Obama should be tried as a war criminal.

PalinLovr - as I recall it was Pres Bush who started this war as well as the war in Iraq. Pres Obama is bringing troops home. Sen McCain said today that we must continue to fight this war in Afghanistan so as not to loss ground that has been gained. So w/ whom does the buck stop and who's the war criminal? Just saying... You can't have it both ways.

The only positive outcome of this (apparently) soldier caused atrocity (if true) will be if we get our a$$es out of Afghanistan. It is high time we called it a day and this incident and the Quran burning incident need to be studied as lessons learned in this one of far too many Bi-Partisan supported military misadventures !!

I agree with bigben. After 10 years of being there, what else can we do other than kill more Terrorists? And we don't need troops on the ground to do that. We seem to do it just fine all over the middle east with predator drones.

"The country was in problem for centuries"

That implies that in some point that there was no problem. As far as I know, that courntry was in problem since its existence. Staying there makes no sense, many conquerors have tried, all left at the end. Winning this war means your loot is worth billions in opium. Last time I checked that not really worth occupying a nation for. We have been had by Pakistan, Osama was never there. Lets leave and let its government fight its own troubles.

What happens if we "win"? What happens there 5 years after we leave (no matter when it is)? It is time and past time to go. We need more voices than the generals and John McCain and Lindsey Graham. I don't like it when anyone presumes to use the term, "The American people want....." but, in this case I believe that it is true. The American people want this to be over and it should not be assumed that we are ignorant, uninformed, selfish cowards in wanting that. We need to bring our troops home and start helping them recover along with our economy.

"Only wish is that the Taliban doesn't start abusing people once the US leaves."

Great. You can wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first. OF COURSE the Taliban will abuse people once the US leaves. They're abusing people right now, so what in blazes makes you think they will stop abusing people once we're gone?

If we are to continue with this or any other conflict, we should as a people unite and ask for the draft to be brought back. No deferments for no-one and all must serve in the infantry for at least 13 mth., then, if you move to a different MOS so be it!

Want to stop having conflicts all over the world this is the way to stop it. Plain and simple they will not send their own. This is not giving the soldier an out for what he did, but, the length of time and the returning trips these guys/gals have had to endure has been devastating for them.

Who really knows whats best for us at the moment? I just know what their strategy should be now and that's to just leave and say they did their best. I know I hate running too, but, if your not going to fight the war then get the hell out.

Mike S,

There is a two minute delay between command imputs and outputs with drones...only boots on the ground linked to the drone bring it up to real time. Otherwise you are shooting two minutes after the target is gone. That is why we had boots on ground in Lybia...no one wanted to talk about it to much. But it seems a few have mentioned it in a off hand way.

If this soldier did leave his base and commit murder of a dozen civilian non-combatants, we have to do the right thing, and throw the full weight of the military justice system onto him. If it's true, we must show the Afghans and the world that we follow our system of military justice, no matter where we are deployed.

No, don't give him to the Afghan government, but make sure (if he's guilty) that his punishment is just, under our military law. I hate to suggest death penalty because I'm not sure I believe in it, but if it's appropriate, we shouldn't try to lessen the punishment just because the victims weren't Americans. If he'd murdered a dozen people, including children, here in the U.S., we'd be calling for his execution. Can we do any less because they were Afghan's sleeping quietly when he shot them?

No one in this thread seems willing to face the reality; an an American soldier appears to have committed mass murder. We must face that ugliness and discuss it. We must accept, despite our desire not to, that sometimes our nation is responsible for evil acts, and we must be willing to do whatever is necessary to make it right.

darrell

I agree with bringing back the draft, but 13 months isn't enough time. It takes that long to get a boot trained up! 12 month tours are not the answer either. When a soldier knows it's 365 and a wake up, all he tries to do is survive.

Our troops are the best in the world because they are a professional army lead by seasoned veterans. That is the whole point to an all volunteer force. They are motivated by honor duty and courage, not fear. We owe them respect and honor for their service.

This incident probably could have been avoided if the president was as forceful and appalled by the killing of our troops by an Afghan soldier. He should have been as outraged as the Afghan government is now. When this is all said and done I would wager this soldier was motivated by anger and frustration at the death of comrades with little in the way of outrage from Washington.

When we commit troops to battle, we must support them fully. This does not mean only with the materials for war, but with political and emotional support from at home. If that happens, the battles are short and the objectives accomplished, when it becomes a political debate, without clear focus or direction, all is lost. You would think that we would have learned that lesson from Vietnam, but apparently some in Washington did not. At this point, the troops are no longer being supported properly and should be pulled out and returned home as soon as possible. Leaving them there any longer, especially with Obama in office is just costing us more lives lost.

Germany and Japan are STILL occupied by the US Military, 66 years after WWII. We can remain in Afghanistan for 66 years too, however,our plan was to destroy Al Quaeda in Afghanistan, not to destroy the Taliban.

We have been extremely successful in destroying Al Quaeda thanks to President Obamas very successful use of Drone attacks, and his successful assassination of Osama Bin Laden.

It seems that we want to hold onto our position there, to deny power to the Taliban, who are a heinous lot,but, they are very well organized, and trained, while the average Afghani soldier is illiterate, not too bright,afraid of the Taliban,poorly paid and living in a very backwards "Country". Arguably Afghanistan is just a geographical area consisting of very many overlapping tribal areas, rampant with corruption, violence and multi-interpretations of what the Muslim religion means to each group.

In the USA, we have ,perhaps hundreds of disparate religions amongst Christians alone, but we do have fairly well educated and paid police and we have the rule of Law, and ,although some American States are better-off than others, we don't suffer from tribalism.

The British failed in Afghanistan 150 years ago,Alexander the Great failed there, 2600 years ago, and the USA saw to it that the Russians failed there, 20 years ago, after Reagan supplied weapons to Al Quaeda and Osama Bin Laden. We cannot do the job, and it's time to get out; Moreover, the CIA estimates that there are only about 100 remaining members of AlQueda in Afghanistan. Why stay ?

I was very glad to read an enlightened post!

Is it a new discovery or many knew these before George Bush, Jr located Afghanistan on the map?

Before attacking, George Bush, Jr could have consulted his pals: Saudis, Pakis and oil companies.

At least, the great "think tankers" could have given some ideas on Afghanistan.

Any how, Bushes, McCain and other scare and war mongers can declare: "mission accomplished."

Do Syria and Iran have roads to attack them with the latest weapons, drones and latest war techniques?

Drewbuddee you must be one of my fellow Democrats with tunnel vision. Vote for and support any Democrat regardless of performance. This incident is certainly not Obama's but his lack of leadership is obvious. Lack of delivery on prior campaign promises has been dismal. Great speaker but not a leader.

Tom2-1134775

Sorry but that's not me, but if you want a class on Obama's leadership skills. I can oblige. a leader will apologize even if he knows he will catch flack for it, in hopes it may save lives. But Obama's biggest liability is Pelosi, who is spineless along with Reid.

How will the government smuggle heroin into the US if we leave Afghanistan?

Taliban, al-Qaida and most of the Sunni Islamic militant organizations are indirectly controlled by Saudis and Pakis.

As many in the US are rooting for eliminating Syria's Assad by helping al-Qaida and Syrian rebels, it should not be a big deal for the Saudis and Pakis to control Taliban, al-Qaida and others.

Even Iran operation about to start like Iraqi wars, are Saudi directed.

When the US, British and NATO forces do so many dirty jobs for them, can't the Saudis and Pakis return small favors?

The Taliban have vowed revenge? Is this some sort of joke? They've been sniper attacking the Americans and NATO for the full time they've been there. This is just another excuse.

Americans are in Afganistan to protect the American civilian infidel kufr population, their monumental architecture, and their civilian transportation aircraft. The Taliban were fully and explicitely complicite accessories to the destructive jihad attacks of 911.

The Americans arrived and naively thought that building roads, schools, infrastructure, and health clinics would encourage the Afghanis to emerge from their sharia induced hell. They refused to acknowledge the authority because their korans told them to hate kill or subjugate the infidel.

They realized the restraint Americans had toward killing civilians, so the Taliban developed the tactic of dressing in civilian clothes and attacking from civilian positions. The civilians are complicite because they allow the Taliban to operate in their midst. I was chilled by the prospect that this staff seargent had done the right thing to protect himself and his fellow soldiers. He was addressing the tactic with a counter-tactic by making a necessary muslim-free standoff zone.

We will need to withdraw immediately. The seargent is to be tried in an American court. If another terror attack emerges from that part of the world, I can think of no better reason to justify the use a thermonuclear device, starting with the counter threat arsenal in Pakistan.

The Taliban adhere, with pagan fidelity, to a book and doctrine full of imperatives to kill Americans only for their disbelief. This removes the moral restraint to give value to the lives of their detractors in return.

The Afghanistan people have been living in a system in which the sick minds have been killing the healthy minds for centuries. We are observing the results of a long ongoing process.

Just to quote the President on a different subject, "We can't wait," until 2014. We're done. If you rob a liquor store, and kill the proprietor instead of getting the money, you don't stay in the store filling up your paper bag.

We accomplished our stated goal with the death of bin Ladin. We screwed the pooch with the book burning, the anti-insurgent strategy, and getting a fundamentally corrupt government to step up like responsible adults. Now, we may as well have buggered Mohammad. This cannot get better from here.

"I understand the anger and the sorrow," said John McCain, the senior Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who like many other Republicans has warned a hasty withdrawal will undermine U.S. security in the long run.

"I also understand that we should not forget that the attacks on the United States of America on 9/11 originated in Afghanistan, and if Afghanistan dissolved into a situation where the Taliban were able to take over, or a chaotic situation, it could easily return to an al-Qaida base for attacks," he said on "Fox News Sunday."

Since most of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, we are in the wrong country. While we're analyzing this and trying to put a good spin on it, I don't remember any women, or a majority of children involved in the plot. I used to respect McCain, but there is no way to handle this without an unconditionally apologetic stance. Nothing that happened to us justifies this, so just say that, and let's get the hell out of there, before women in the streets start stabbing our guys with every sharp kitchen implement they can get their hands on. If it were me, and the situation reversed, I wouldn't give a damn about any excuse the army gave me. I'd shoot them on the streets for killing our children. If they start doing that, I'm going to find it hard not to empathize with their anger.

The attacks over the Quoran, I don't really get, but killing kids in the middle of the night is beyond the pale. It's time to leave while we can still see the moral high ground without a telescope.

A soon as we pull out of Afghanistan the country will fall into total chaos. Even now the Karzai government has only limited control within the capitol city of Kabul. Outside of Kabul the Karzai government has virtually no control at all. Most of the country is controlled by various tribal leaders and warlords, not the central government. Whether we stay another 6 months or 6 years will not make a difference, the result will be the same. Once we pull out, the current government will collapse completely and there will be a period of anarchy until the Taliban gets organized and either bribes or uses force to get enough of the warlords and tribal chiefs to submit to their rule. Within a year of our pulling out, or two at the most, Afghanistan will be right back to where it was when this all started in 2001. It is time to cut our losses and bring our troops home. There is no point in sacrificing even one more American life fighting a war that can not be won. No matter how long we stay or how hard we try, we will never see a stable democracy in Afghanistan until the people of Afghanistan decide to stop listening to these fanatics in the Taliban that twist their religion into a reason for oppressing people and murdering those who do not agree with them.

Tom is right. Joe is wrong. Afghanistan is nothing but a cesspool of indignities. The sooner that every civilized country in the world realizes this, the sooner we can build a wall around it and let them eat one another. A long time ago, I learned that you can't fix "crazy." It takes both sides of any interaction to want the same result, or you will have nothing but conflict. Afghanistan defines this statement.

Second, I'm still waiting on Karzai to apologize. (I know, I know, but I'm still going to wait for it.)

Once we pull out, the current government will collapse completely and there will be a period of anarchy until the Taliban gets organized and either bribes or uses force to get enough of the warlords and tribal chiefs to submit to their rule. Within a year of our pulling out,

Maybe then thye can have the same lifestyle that they enjoy, and have had for thousands of years. What business is it of ours? The Taliban only hates us because we are there, invading their land and supporting bullies, as those who want to start a war against other Islamic countries.

It's very unlikely that we will have another 9/11 if we get OUT OF THERE!. However, if we stay there, the chances are exponential bigger. How is that such a difficult concept to grab? Just tink about it as if they were the "military presence" in your backyard. Then it will probably make sense.

The article quotes Pentagon spokesman George Little as having said "...The recent tragedy in Afghanistan will not deter us from pursuing our fundamental strategy. We've come too far with our Afghan partners."

Uh, ...what IS our "fundamental strategy" in Afghanistan? Jeffersonian democracy is not likely to take root in Afghanistan, so this "fundamental strategy" must be aimed at something else. I wonder what it can be.

The Americans arrived and naively thought that building roads, schools, infrastructure, and health clinics would encourage the Afghanis to emerge from their sharia induced hell. They refused to acknowledge the authority because their korans told them to hate kill or subjugate the infidel.

I don't think that arriving and naively thinking that building roads, schools, infrastructure and health clinics would encourage them to emerge from anything. You have to actually BUILD the roads, schools, infrastructure, etc. in order to help them. Shooting their women and children and then thinking about building stuff for them rather tends to annoy them. Wonder why....

How does the Bible put it? "By their works thou shalt know them."

The shootings may complicate things for Obama ahead of November's presidential election.

This is what happens when you elect a “community organizer” as the POTUS with NO military experience and thinks that bowing down to them and apologizing actually means anything to them…it only shows WEAKNESS!

Since most of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, we are in the wrong country. While we're analyzing this and trying to put a good spin on it,

theCavalier, the above statement would have some relevance, if the hijackers had been acting as agents of the Saudi government.

They were not. While there is doubtless sympathy for Al Qaeda's agenda among some member's of the Saudi government, and probably more among that nation's people, the 19 hijackers were operating as members of a private, extra-national organization. No direct links between the 9/11 attacks and the Saudi government have ever been uncovered.

Al Qaeda directed the attacks from the safe haven provided by the Taliban, in Afghanistan. The Taliban was either unwilling or unable to give them up to the U.S.

That is why we went there. That is why we needed to go there.

But I would say that now is the time to disengage ourselves from the country. We cannot control its government or its people. We can only require that they do not give knowing shelter to those who would attack us.

There's little reason for us to stay any longer ....

Get out today or 6 or so months , or even a year from now ....

Were not changing much more at this point there ....

Except perhaps the number of names we want etched on our war memorials. That's it. That's the ONLY thing we CAN change in this lunacy.

These barbaric gomers have been fighting and killing each other for the past ten thousand years.

Guess what? In ANOTHER ten thousand years they will STILL be fighting and killing each other.

We're trying to change the ocean tide with a pail and shovel here. PAST TIME TO LEAVE and let them kill each other.

Byron Baum:

First of all, Rome was not built in a day. Second, in order for a new system to work and for contractors to build, the population must submit to a new authority. That never happened.

American, NATO, and UN contractors DID build many schools, and in some, a few students timidly still attend at great danger to thier own lives. They DID build health clinics. Have you read about the terror attacks against the clinic workers thought to be prosthylatising? They were kidnapped and murdered. Have you heard about the Taliban tactic of killing the road crews? America needs cooperation to build, but the resistance has mitigated further progress beyond the initiative. The mission fell to the purpose of security only.

Ignorance or denial is not a good arguement.

So, an American slaughters children in their sleep, but it's the Afghani's who are animals?

I love the fact that only American soldiers crack from the stress. No Afghani is offered that excuse for killing an American. I guess they're such animals they don't feel any stress from murdering Americans prowling their streets 24 hours a day.

Save the life of a child: Bring our frail little psychopaths home today.

Oh, I forgot. Those aren't children. They're just animals who deserve to be shot in their sleep by the big, strong American heroes.

Afghan Taliban pledged to "take revenge" against the "sick-minded American savages,"

"The American 'terrorists' want to come up with an excuse for the perpetrator of this inhumane crime by claiming that this immoral culprit was mentally ill,"

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! What is THEIR excuse???

Oh wait, it’s that little black book they live by...

Why do we need to be their? Twelve Saudi's outwitted us because of our ignorance in 2001, didn't we wise up to that ? We need to get out of that hellhole!! If we left and the Taliban regrouped so what" it would be easier to take them out..Id rather our dollars go to more of homeland security especially on the borders.

Anything is better than the way its going now..

First, condolences to the families of those killed. Hard to know the circumstances until all the facts are in, but sounds like this guy just snapped. Hope he gets his just desserts, whatever that may be.

Seems like a fair amount of agreement from both left and right that we need to get out of this cesspool. Why are we even screwing around with these trogs? If they want to run their government as a theocracy that's their business. Hanging around Afghanistan was one of the things that brought down the Soviet Union, and if we don't wise up the same will happen to us. It's a money pit, and our fine men and women in uniform will continue to die there for nothing.

What do you say we all band together, quit arguing about whose fault it is, and tell congress to get us out NOW. Why wait? There's NOTHING for us to gain there.

What's truly sad is that there is enough mineral wealth there to significantly improve the standard of living for the entire population, but they're so backwards they'll never be able to take advantage of it. And they'll just kill and harass anyone who tried to teach them how.

OUT OF AFGHANISTAN NOW!

WOW! after reading this news event, i can only say a few things. I symphasize with the loss of life, children, women and men in Afghanistan over this tragedy. I can only wonder what drove that Soldier to commit this horrible crime. but you, we have been over in the middle east for how long?????????????

We have been putting our Soldiers and Civilians in harms way in support of putting down turmoil, murder and corruption within these single countries, the Taliban, other corrupt groups who target our own people who we deploy to aid the heads of these countries, when they need help. These groups burn our flag, they make efigies of our people and burn them openly. they make other threats against us and we do nothing except try to maintain some kind of peace at the cost of what????????????????

i am not saying i agree with the action this Soldier took, but something drove him/her to it. in all fairness to the millions involved, i hope all sides concerned with this event, that means the Afghanistanee's to will take a look at the whole affair. what have they done to encourage this tragedy? have they not instigated similar actions against those who are there to help them and their own problems? don't let the US take the blame for anything that happens, let's take a look at you to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama says he will hold whoever did this responsible. Hm... Do you think the guy, or guys that did this are in their sane mind?

Yes, they are perfectly sane - and that's the problem. They've been fed hate and disdain for these people, who are regularly dehumanized by pundits and their peers stateside. If some of the comments here are any indication, how is it surprising to anyone that someone would do this?

Hate isn't a form of insanity.

Dave-2550157

No one in this thread seems willing to face the reality; an an American soldier appears to have committed mass murder. We must face that ugliness and discuss it. We must accept, despite our desire not to, that sometimes our nation is responsible for evil acts, and we must be willing to do whatever is necessary to make it right.

Best post here. Thanks, Dave.

Your statement is true here, in DC, and in Afghanistan. If we always operated under the mantras of doing the right thing and treating all others as our brother, we would stand a much better chance of both containing these kinds of things and preventing them in the first place.

Instead, you gotta wonder how much our very common posts and speeches of hate and lack of responsibility weigh on the minds of people we put in impossible situations. We cannot know unless we are there. We can only imagine.

@Shuklack

Hate is one thing; acting on it is another. That's where insanity can come into play; when one acts irrationally on one's hate or ignorance.

Nothing Nothing Nothing Nothing is going to change a Radically Governed country of haters and a group of extremist...Just when you think your making changes you'll find out they have to pick sides..History shows what side they'll choose.

In part THIS vow is reason enough to say why we [the u.s] shall not succeed in a corrupt Afghan country. The thought and comprehension of singular action evades the simple minded. It must not be one man. It MUST be the Americans in whole in the mind of those such as the scallywags. ; ] In fact we are there ONLY to perpetuate Americas grasp on the Poppy trade for black actions of governance by attrition. Illegal funds far outweigh the price of leaving or we would NOT still be there. Besides Americans making cash hand over fist as "contractors" and what not what is the goal our country has set? There is NOT a clear goal because the subversive goal is clear. Yet KNOW ONE wishes to speak out loud the obvious. To call either administration on its B.S.

Now then this killing is not known to have cause other then what the military has labeled "disturbed". But how do we know this to be the case? As though the military is not self serving in the eyes of the media before and will continue to be after? As we have seen with the actions of involvement with Karsai the "barfly" we have little rep to hold fast to. ; ] Why must this country remain bleeding like a siv at the proportion of a whale to its mouse in treasure and life? Again I hope the cash we are making from the Poppy trade is significant because little intelligence is prone to a bright side in this country. Also once more if this is not to be the continuing case, WHY are we here again? ; ]Hmmm.

Cheers

When are John McCain and other Saudi gun slingers going to Afganistan? George Bushes can send their reps also.

At least McCain has experience on fleeing from Saigon airport. Still, these paid pipers of Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists don't get it.

They want wars (drones, arms to al-Qaida, big bombs, latest weapons and so on) in Iran and Syria!!!!

We burned the Korans, They killed 6 US Soldiers, Then we killed 16.......................

WHAT What???

I can tell you one thing for sure...our Representatives will not listen to us and pull out of there. I stopped hoping for them to do the will of the people when both parties basically told us to @!$%# off about our illegal immigration problem. No matter who gets the Presidency, the house, or the Senate, prepare to be disappointed.

Is it 7 AM Tuesday morning, Election Day, November 6th, 2012 yet??????

So, an American slaughters children in their sleep, but it's the Afghani's who are animals?

I love the fact that only American soldiers crack from the stress. No Afghani is offered that excuse for killing an American. I guess they're such animals they don't feel any stress from murdering Americans prowling their streets 24 hours a day.

Save the life of a child: Bring our frail little psychopaths home today.

Oh, I forgot. Those aren't children. They're just animals who deserve to be shot in their sleep by the big, strong American heroes.

Yup carolanne1. Big time Double Standard. I say give the Afghans the idiot that did this let them hang his burning body from a pole because I'm sure as hell not at all for what the idiot did to little innocent children.

Problem Solved.

when he is found guilty he will be put to death. killing women and kids this guy needs to die. we dont want him back here. And for the taliban they must have forgot about cutting nick bergs head off on camera while they stood and praised god. We need to get the hell out of this country.

Nobody can control another human being that is out of control. Some of these posts are really sad because many of you are assuming this soldier was mentally fine which clearly he was not. Did anybody know he was a time bomb? I do not know. The Muslim doc that killed our soldiers in TX was a time bomb and everybody knew but PC prevented getting him help or at least putting him out of harm's way.

One nation to another cannot just apologize for one man's action. It doesn't represent the other soldiers, but it only take one incident compared to many to send things south in a hurry. Equally how do you explain mental illness to a society that has an avg age under 20. Do you think they understand mental illness brought on by war? They might see it if they lived long enough but never be able to put a term to it.

I would repeat this. For many years when Bush was in office, the democrats complained loudly that those serving were asked to do multiple tours putting them more at risk for mental issues. It was implied that Bush was no sensitive to the National Guard challenges. However Obama has said little during his time in office and certainly hasn't changed policy. On top of that the VA hospitals are constantly seeing budget cuts. I spoke to a vet just this past week, that is a staunch democrat, was very anti-Bush and he said the VA hospitals are horrible because policy changes weekly and the quality of care is horrendous. He didn't rant or rave when he spoke on his issue, but very matter of fact told me his opinion. He recently elected surgery outside his "free" service because of the quality.

Hold Obama to the same standards as Bush which currently we are not doing. The protesters have all shut up even though relations in Afghanistan have worsened over the years, along with Pakistan, and certainly now with Iran. There is nothing here to brag about. We have been on the wrong course for a very long time because we keep switching between fighting a war and nation building. Which is it?

I feel so sorry for the family of this soldier that will also have to live with knowing what he has done and most likely never seeing any semblance of the man they sent to war.

They kill our boys over paper books and we do nothing but kiss their butts, this is enough to get anyone mad. Now this guys life is destroyed as well the poor people he killed.

Wait a minute... They condoned and to an extent help perpetrate a psychotic plan and an attack on "innocent American civilians" then danced in the streets of Kabul-ba-ba-lanka-danka-ville after wards, and ....

I guess its all a point of perspective.

This soldier will get off due to PTSD and then they're really gonna be pissed.

My question is how do we know that this was not a covert mission/hit on a known terrorist? All we have to go by is what the Afghani's are saying. There is much more to this that we do not know and will probably never know the truth. Seems as though the US is saying 1 soldier and they are saying multiple soldiers. Something is not right here.

Watching from the sidelines, this is what it looks like. On January 1, 2009, things had turned the corner in Iraq and things were going well in Afghanistan. Now, three years and 2 months later, failed diplomacy led do our ubrupt departure from Iraq to the delight of Iran and Afghanistan has been turned into a Viet Nam style quagmire. General Petraus was doing great in Iraq, so our all knowing leadership took him out of there. Then he was sent to Afghanistan where he had things going well and again he was pulled out, to run the CIA. He being a life long military followed orders. The all knowing leadership either out of ignorance or who know what managed to make a mess of both of these operations. A war cannot be won by appology and weakness. Our borders are porous, our immigration operation bringing in more and more problems every day. This is the road to self destruction. Unless that is what we want it has to be stopped and turned around before it is too late. We need real leadership and strength with patriotic Americans at the helm. Ours was the greatest nation in the world and will be again once we elect people who are not going to fall into the one world order but will act in the best interest of America. As to the soldier who did this, who knows what was in his head, maybe he was predisposed to be a killer, maybe taking a young man educated in our liberal controlled nanny state school system and putting him in hell only to be appologized for at every turn. A place where those that are supposed to be friendlies shoot his fellow officers without any signs ahead of time, while he is trying to stay alive not knowing who to trust, he finding out that his family that in many cases already lives on food stamps, is going to be forced to pay more for the lousy health care they receive. How far can you push a human before they flip out? It would seem that the all knowing leadership puts enough pressure on the troops to break many of them, so who is to blame?

To those who continue to claim that Afganistan and Iraq et all are nothing but war mongering nations, please look to your own soil and history. While "might may make right", we are still participating in the war machine whether you realize it or not. This happens with an inept, broken, continually changing foreign policy, which most Americans don't follow.

Dear Taliban: You are stupid.

"Hi, I'm from the Taliban. My non-thinking cleric that I totally use as an excuse to act idiotic reminded me today that while we were going to kill US soldiers one time, that because of these killings that were revenge for the killings we did (as revenge, by the way, for just feeling bad), we are going to NOW EXTRACT MORE REVENGE AND KILL YOU TWO TIMES!"

Remember the kind of person that likes living in dirt. That's your Taliban!

The Afghan women and their kids spit and than burn our dead soldiers, than they start dancing in the streets on our flag and we give them aid, this is madness.

Patriotic american....And when armed troops come into America and shoot and burn and bomb your house, occupy the country, what will you do?

So if the soldiers killed over their Korandid not burn the book than they were just as innocent as those women and kidsyet they were killed and I don't see these afghan people apologizing for that, did their President call Obama and apologize and we are expected to feel sorry, HELL NO.

I see where the taliban are pissed at this. Only they can kill their own people.

That is funny...

How dare we shoot their people in the head for no good reason!

Patriotic - the burned men were from Blackwater - mercenaries or what we now call "contractors."

Wow, I'm amazed at how quickly this murdering American was whisked back to the US (if he is in Tacoma, WA). I'm sure non-psychotic American troops wish they could leave as quickly.

We should have turned him over to Karzai, we put Karzai in place to begin with (so we liked him at one point, or was it because we thought we could control him?) - it's the only way that other soldiers will not have a bulls-eye on their back until if we ever pull out. There are decent soldiers over there who are in a more precarious position than ever before because of this man, and the Afghans have a point - what is going on with command at that base?

This is a tragedy to the family that lost so many of their loved ones - yet all the posts are bickering that our child murderer is OK because the Taliban is worse - is that what this country is about now. We will protect one of our own who committed an atrocity just because he's American. I don't remember Afghanistan INVITING us over there, we are the occupiers, now we really look like an enemy... if the Military didn't do their job and properly vet this guy mentally - that is a problem, but I don't want a decent soldier to die because this guy was off from the start - perhaps the stress did get to him, again - what are the commanders at that base doing?

Murders happen every day in the US, yet most don't get off with the insanity plea.... perhaps we should re-think that - living in Cabrini Green in the 80's was a war zone, doubt the gang bangers got off with an insanity plea.

Stop making this child-killing ex-soldier a martyr - that would be something a terrorist would do. Send him back to Kabul!

Rick-3608408 wrote:

So if the soldiers killed over their Korandid not burn the book than they were just as innocent as those women and kidsyet they were killed and I don't see these afghan people apologizing for that, did their President call Obama and apologize and we are expected to feel sorry, HELL NO.

There's a very famous photograph that everyone has seen. It's of a South Vietnamese police chief shooting a Viet Cong prisoner in the side of his head, right when it happens. The soldiers that were killed over the Quran were just like that Viet Cong prisoner... even though they had nothing to do with it, they were a representation of the person/people who did it. On the other hand, the women and children don't represent our 'enemy' at all, and are truly innocents.

On a side-note, since we aren't privy to everything that goes on, we don't know if apologies were made over the killing of the soldiers. But of course, Obama gets ALL of the attention when he shows any sympathy over something that shouldn't have happened. Perhaps Obama should have just said:

"So what?" –President Bush, responding to a an ABC News correspondent who pointed out that Al Qaeda wasn't a threat in Iraq until after the U.S. invaded.

This soldiers actions seem to have been well planned out. It doesn't sound like the actions of a person who snapped but more like the actions of a man with a plan. The plan in this case, more than likely, was to be the last straw to force the Aghanis to ask us to leave thus bringing our soldiers out of that country. Not only was this soldiers actions a war crime, an act of terrorism, mass murder of innocent children, women and men that had no connections to the Taliban, but this soldiers actions were treasonous and perpetrated to undermine the militaries strategic influence in the war on terror. Regardless of how the military chooses to go forward with regards to our occupation in Afghanistan, this soldiers actions were treasonous and war crimes in every sense. This soldier should be held accountable in the highest sense and capital punishment exacted if he is found guilty. No plea bargains.

Hello folks, despite what some people advocate, killing and abusing humanity is not an innate trait of the human condition. That is why so many soldiers suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and why suicides among military personnel is so high. All wars are a product of greed and corruption. War is an exercise of power and control over another group for usually resources and wealth. Mostly young men and woman are indoctrinated and brain washed in to believing that they are performing a patriotic duty when in fact they are pawns in the corporate chessboard called planet earth.

Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.

This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.

Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.

Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy" Henry Kissinger

I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Here we go.

Exit from Afghanistand and off to the next war in Iran.

Wanna bet?

Patric American....i gotta draw the line on women and children being killed....this person for sure must of blown a loose screw and it melted. the stress of combat and maybe stress from home got to him. we should not throw this guy under the bus yet! treat him,find out information that could help others before this happens. he does need to be locked up don't get me wrong.

SEMPER FI

DANNY

cynical175 wrote:

Here we go.

Exit from Afghanistand and off to the next war in Iran.

Wanna bet?

To be truthful, I don't think we have the resources to go to war against Iran. For those who think Iraq and Afghanistan were mistakes, Iran would be an even bigger one. The only winners would be the bankers who finance it, and the corporations that equip it. If there's a bet to be made, that one is guaranteed.

One more thing - I remember MSNBC's picture of the crime scene yesterday, blood on the walls and a pile of ash on the floor, I wondered what it was - the UK Guardian is reporting that not only did this soldier kill 16 civilians, he also burned them - I am now thinking that the villager's report that he was NOT alone sounds a bit more plausible.

The Taliban have vowed revenge for an "inhumane attack" in which a US soldier allegedly murdered 16 civilians in southern Afghanistan and burned their bodies

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/12/taliban-vow-revenge-afghan-attack

Among the dead was a young girl in a green and red dress who had been shot in the forehead. The bodies of other victims appeared partially burned. A villager claimed they had been wrapped in blankets and set on fire by the killer.

It is not the first time that US soldiers have intentionally killed Afghan civilians but the toll is unprecedented for a single soldier. The soldier, who was reported to be a staff sergeant and father of three who has done three tours of duty in Iraq, was arrested after the assault. He appears to have made no attempt to cover up the shootings.

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/us-soldier-killing-afghanistan-children?intcmp=239

Look at the small, now deceased little girl - and then tell me "it's not this soldier's fault." She did not have a choice into which country she was born.

PICTURE: http://www.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2012/03/12/les-talibans-jurent-de-venger-le-massacre-de-civils-afghans-par-un-soldat-americain_1656235_3216.html

Trust Verify - Excellent Post! Also thought your assessment yesterday of how many years this country has been in overt battles (the ones we know of) since the country's inception, was very well done.

How many vows of revenge is it so far this year? The only certainty in this stone age barbaric country is that there will be a near endless series of vows of revenge for one thing or another. Such is the way for the followers of the cult of the moon god.

WetWilly - your obvious lack of grasping the serious nature of this story is astonishing. Calling people from other countries or those who have a different religion names, is in no way helping the troops overseas that are actually trying to make a difference. That little girl, who is dead in the picture, was not just a citizen of Afghanistan, she was a denizen of our world, our planet. Borders do not differentiate between the human species, she could have been anyone's child, yet she was murdered and we will never know what she would offer the world as she grew up, she could have been a Nobel Prize winner, she could have been a mother, the problem is that she doesn't have the chance to be anything but dead now.

Until people start realizing that we are all one on this planet - we will not stop fighting, be it for resources that we don't want to share or want cheaply for ourselves only, or simply because we refuse to accept differences in cultures when we should be embracing them.

Again, WW, the Red Crescent is the same as the Red Cross in the US - do you think the Red Cross is a cult?

Get out. Get out now. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

I want peace for the Afghani people just as much as anyone. I hear people on here say that as soon as we leave, the "Taliban" will collapse down on the people and all of our efforts will have been for naught.

You know... it comes to mind that we're not the first country to be involved in this rodeo. I used to laugh when I heard that the "USSR" was "mired down" in Afghanistan and couldn't figure out how to extricate themselves. I'm sure they're probably laughing at us right now.

The "people" of Afghanistan have a decision to make. For too many years, people from other countries have been fighting and dying on their soil to try and "protect" these people. The problem is, any country present there for too long becomes unseperable in the eyes of "the people" from the people they're trying to fight. The Taliban have become too "enmeshed" with the populace. It's not like they (the Taliban) go around wearing shirts (colors, whatever) that clearly identify them as the enemy. The blend in with the populace.

I hear people on here say that "we" don't understand the war over there. I think I understand it better than you think. Our troops don't know who the "bad guys" are. The populace doesn't go out of their way to help us "identify" the enemy (and my guess is - in some cases they won't... but by and large, they don't know who is a "stranger" and who isn't)... so our kids have a constant "twitch" looking over their shoulder because the person they pass on the street who smiles at them, as soon as they're past, are the same folks pulling out guns and are shooting them in the back.

The only solution to the problem of Afghanistan has to be promulgated by the people of Afghanistan themselves. I know this is counterintuitive to most Americans... but we can't solve the world's problems. Sometimes, the problem has to be solved locally.

The people will either rise up against their Taliban oppressors - or they won't. They'll either fight for their freedom - or the radicals will take over and then they'll truly be in a world of $hit.

As for the shooter, he needs to be brought home to face justice. We all find it detestable that this has happened and our thoughts and prayers are with the families impacted... but I can't bring myself to totally condemn this soldier. People don't generally make it through basic training if they have screws loose. That tells me this is probably a stress induced "cracking". We don't know the circumstances and probably should reserve judgment until we know all the facts. It doesn't make the fact that there are dead women and children in Afghanistan who deserve justice - but we need to know all the facts first.

Taliban vow revenge for Afghans killed by US soldier.

Really!!! Like they weren't going to kill Americans by any means possible anyway??? Did they declare Gee Whiz on us again?? Did you forget about the twin towers and 911????

I for one have NOT!!! How many American civilians died that day?? How many have been captured and decapitated since??

I don't condone the killing of civilains, but Lest We Forget!!!

Get our kids out of there. NOW!! We can pound them from the air or from the ocean if we really need to!!

Mr Obama, Stop apologizing to our enemies and start protecting our troops over there!

Stop blaming Bush and get us out of Afangaistan asap. The CIA and Navy Seals got rid of Osama bin Laden, the mission is over.... we will never bring democracy to that pit called Afganistan... so what's your point?

Remove all American and Nato troops and stop making excuses and kowtowing to those bastards!

Charles the Hammerhead, I seriously doubt the commitment of the US elected officals so called "rebuilding" efforts in Afghanistan.

And from what I read the majority of the problems aren't violence, but I'm sure it is a concern, but more poor planning, lack of supervision and oversight, and the inability of local officials to keep them going.

But regardless of all that, I say too little, too late.

Our elected officials were given ample opportunity to begin rebuilding Afghanistan in the late 80's, after we funded, trained, and supplied the mujahideen with billions of dollars to defeat Russia. There were some members of our federal government that wanted a VERY SMALL portion of the money that had been spent to destroy the country, to assist in a rebuilding effort.

The requests that weren't denied were ignored. Then our elected officals turned their backs on the country for not "playing ball" and began sanctioning them.

All the refugees that left during Russia's attacks came back to a country in shambles internally and externally. And now the US that vowed to help them turned their backs and left them to rebuild themselves. How can a third world country expect to be able to do this with no outside assistance ?

And you wonder why they are still a third world country and why they want to kill Americans, maybe because of the USA foreign policy of destroy, leave, come back and destroy again.

Come on President Obama. You promised the United States Citizens over 3 years ago that you would get us out of these wars. You have put us in more wars than any of the Bush's.. It's time to get out of Afganistan and everywhere else. Quit rallying for peace with bombs and guns.

shucklack

You obviously have never served in the armed forces. Our soldiers are not taught to hate civilians, they are not taught to hate at all. They are taught to defend themselves and to destroy enemy combatants. This staff Sargent either lost it or was acting on suspicions of his own.

Jasmine

One US soldier commits a crime and we become the barbarians? How many women have the Taliban killed or maimed because they went to get an education other than the teachings of the Koran? How many civilians have they purposely put in the line of fire to save themselves from being bombed or shelled? How many women and children have been killed or injured in their suicide bombings? And you call us barbarians! Maybe you should go to Afghanistan and witness the plight of women under the Taliban's rule then decide who is the barbarian in the room.

Tell the Taliban the killings were in response to all the U.S. and NATO soldiers that got assassinated over a stupid book. Maybe the Taliban should figure out that there are consequences to their actions, official or otherwise.

Violence begets violence in a never ending cycle of anger, pain, and loss. There are never any winners when a conflict comes to violence, only losers. We will never affect positive change in the world with rifles and bombs. Educating our brothers and sisters is the only way to make the world a better place. Science and maths textbooks need to replace Bibles and Qur'ans. Killing in the name of God is murder in pursuit of delusion and lies. We need to grow up as a species and take responsibility for our actions in this life, the only life we have.

Enough already!!!!!!!

Newsvine is NOT a personal blog to fling non factual opinions like apes in a cage sling feces. Newsvine is a Forum to discuss Facts to "Get Smarter Here".

PLEASE read this link so that you even get some sort of knowledge about this place (Afghanistan), this is knowledge based on Firsthand experience here (Afghanistan) learned during the Life or Death School of Hard Knocks and NOT information written by a academic idealistic non participant "Experts" that was never here or was living at a secure hotel getting more information (paid for) from other non participants.

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/12/10658053-afghanistan

Some of you are proving that you do not know anything based on your "popular" non factual views and opinions (posts) instead of the unpopular FACTS.

Examples:

FACT: Four Legal Authorities Over the US Military.

FACT: Sunnis are Pro Western Moderate Islamic Believers. Shia were Sharia is derived from as Fundamentalist Islamic Believers. This is what that Centuries of Sunnis and Shia killing each other is about, a "Liberal Interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran) and Islam versus a Fundamentalist Interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran) and Islam.

US Ally Saudi Arabia = Sunnis.

Fundamentalist Islamic Iran = Shia Law (Sharia Law).

Previous US Ally Egypt = Sunnis, now taken over by Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Muslim Brotherhood.

Iraq = was Sunnis until US Overthrow, now Fundamentalist Islamic Shia and Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis (also Shia and language Iranian their form of Farsi).

Libya = is now Shia as controlled by the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group after the overthrow of Gaddaffi. Shia Law (Sharia Law).

Al Quada Franchise = Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists. Shia Law (Sharia Law).

Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Gaza, Army of Islam Pakistan, Haqquani Network, etc. = Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists, Shia Law (Sharia Law).

The ability that the country of Afghanistan has to suck the life out of superpowers with crap that was left behind by the last superpower is comparable to that of the VC. That is more apparent daily. Do the right thing, bring the troops home, now. No more meaningless talk of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory". It was hyperbole then and it is hyperbole now. Please bring them home and start healing the ones who need healing.

David, I actually enjoyed your blog, and it was pretty much dead on.

The only 2 issues I had are these.

Osama Bin Laden did fight under Jalaluddin Haqqanni during Operation Cyclone in the 80's in Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda wasn't formed specifically formed during this operation, but the groundwork was laid. As well as the foundation for other terrorist groups like the Taliban and the Haqqani Network.

The troop reduction may be true, but since our government spends over $600 billion more than the next highest military spender, China. So I can't necessarily buy that.

Kettle you said; we will never know what she would offer the world as she grew up, she could have been a Nobel Prize winner, she could have been a mother, the problem is that she doesn't have the chance to be anything but dead now.

Yes and she could have been a suicide bomber as well! So what is your point?

There is no reason for our troops to be in Afghanistan, except to train Afghan police and soldiers and let the Afghans live their lives as they see fit. Yes, I feel horrible for the thousands of women and girls who are used and abused, I feel sorry for the boys who are indoctrinated into fearing/hating anyone their cleric doesn't like. But it is THEIR RIGHT to make their own choices and live the way they want. The Russians who were there ten years, couldn't change that and neither can we, nor do we have the right to. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.

we actually succeeded in the mission and need to get out now. If it weren't for Afghanastan we wouldn't have gotten to Osama in Pakistan.

Sad irony here is that Bush was right. Remember that shot on the carrier with the 'Mission Accomplished' sign behind it. That's when we should have pulled out of Iraq. That was the mission.

Destroy the enemy. Go home.

The whole nation building and make them better than they were requirement is never a practical goal!

The problem with Afghanistan is not as the article says: Karzai

The problem with Afghanistan is that it's full of Afghans.

We can't fix that and we shouldn't try.

War on terrorism is just as good as saying war on crime. There will always be terrorists just as there will always be criminals. Lets go back save some tax dollars, and use those tax dollars to turn our kids into snobs as Santorum would say.

Republiclown solutions:

Mittens- Tax Cuts. Hey its been working great so far

Ritchie- No Contraception & Prayer

Newton- Drill Baby Drill & $2.00 gas

Mittens- Tax Cuts. Hey its been working great so far

Ritchie- No Contraception & Prayer

Newton- Drill Baby Drill & $2.00 gas

You forgot to add the asinine three idiots that are rooting for war: Lindsey Graham, Jhon McCAin and Joe Lieberman. Give them uniforms and send them there, so we can FINALLY get rid of them. STUPID EGOTISTIC MORONS.

No, the sad irony here is that we should have stayed the course in Afghanistan after 9/11. Bush/Cheney diverted efforts into their private action in Iraq, completely blowing any chance we had of accomplishing anything in Afghanistan. 10 years later, no one even remembers what the Afghan mission was, let alone being able to declare it "accomplished." Get the troops out now, bring them home, and keep them the he|| out of Iran!

Trying to fight a war with one hand tied to your balls and your other thumb stuck up your ass is not going to turn out well. Go all out or get out. Screw this nation building crap. It is a waste of money especially over there. The only thing they respect or understand is force. It is called war for a reason and bad things happen in it. If you aren't going into a war with a kill them all and let God sort it out attitude you have no reason to be there.

Sad irony here is that Bush was right. Remember that shot on the carrier with the 'Mission Accomplished' sign behind it. That's when we should have pulled out of Iraq. That was the mission.

rrobeson - Sorry, I'm not buying it. Once we removed the power structure ruling Iraq, we created a potential problem far bigger than Saddam Hussein.

Chaos, civil strife and lack of governmental control, are precisely the factors which gave rise to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. To have left Iraq without a stable government would have been equivalent to lighting a fire in the explosives shack, and then hoping you'd be far enough away that the blast would not kill or injure you.

The mistake was in going there in the first place, without a clear understanding of the true cost and scope of the task we were undertaking.

One of the truly grotesque moments in American political history has to be George Bush posing in the flight suit he got for Christmas in front of a "Mission Accomplished" sign on the deck of a U.S. warship.

dman...............Maybe we could all campaign for Obama to do the same thing about Afghanistan as George II did with Iraq........BUT this time Really Leave! Mission Accomplished II.

INSANITY is a rational adjustment to an insane society. Maybe gone a little crazy by fighting a war by political correctness? Sad.

Taliban vow revenge for Afghans killed by US soldier

The dumb leading the dumb. They are so accustom to killing other people on a daily basis, so why are they so shocked or surprised when one man guns down a dozen or more of their own people.

Who told all of you that the Misson here (Afghanistan) was to get Osama Bin Laden?

Go read this link the Mission here is still the same plus the added UN Mission "Nation Building":

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/12/10658053-afghanistan

dman-353357 - rrobeson - Sorry, I'm not buying it. Once we removed the power structure ruling Iraq, we created a potential problem far bigger than Saddam Hussein.

That is a real understatement. Who ever heard of Overthrowing a US Ally? Go read this link and figure out who demanded the Overthrow of President Hussein and why:

Iraq:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq

So glad it will be "someone else's" turn to deal with all of this mess in less than 3 months.

Hint: Afghanistan = Asymmetric War NOT a Conventional War. Go read up on the Strategic Goals of Asymmetric Warfare versus the Strategic Goals of Conventional Warfare.

Keep f**king up like the Conventional Warfare Forces of the USSR 40th Army Occupation and see what happens.

By the way the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces are slated to leave here by 2014, with this incident possibly making that date to be pushed back to beyond 2014. It will be Decades after 2014 that the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces finally get to leave here (Afghanistan).

Signed the 1% US Military Middle East Qualified Asymmetric Warfare Forces of the 3% of US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces of the 97% US Military Conventional Warfare Forces of the 1% of US Citizens currently Serving in the US Military of the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military. Note: The majority of the 1% of US Military Middle East Qualified Asymmetric Warfare Forces will be going back on Retirement again never to be Recalled to Active Duty again as "Too Old", those not "Too Old" will be going on the Forced Retirements of President Obama's Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military.

dman...............Maybe we could all campaign for Obama to do the same thing about Afghanistan as George II did with Iraq........BUT this time Really Leave! Mission Accomplished II.

OBXRon - If by doing the same thing as Bush, you mean blunder into a nation uninvolved in the 9/11 attacks, in which the inspectors in 2002 and 2003 were not finding an illicit weapons programs or stores, then I'd say that you are suggesting the impossible. Afghanistan was not uninvolved in the 9/11 attacks, and nobody ever suggested that the Taliban were capable of deploying an illicit weapon more sophisticated than a beer and egg f*rt.

If you are suggesting that we declare that all we came to do is done, to the highest degree possible [if not the highest degree desirable], then I agree.

Unfortunately, nations which aspire to greatness, and to be taken seriously in world affairs, cannot simply cut and run on a moment's notice. So, we're not about to pack up and leave in the next week, or even in the next 90 days. But, we can and should seek to wind down our involvement, and accelerate it whenever and wherever possible.
To stand by our commitment will be painful, in every sense of the word. But, I do not believe we can avoid it.

Go read this link the Mission here is still the same plus the added UN Mission "Nation Building":

Dave, I did examine this link, and your summary article on Afghanistan. I have to say a few things:
First off, I cannot tell from the litany of facts you list just what you believe is the correct course of U.S. Policy in Afghanistan, or in a wider sense, in that region of the world. Secondly, you need to sharpen your expository writing skills. Sentences like (bolded text):

The USSR 40th Army did not care which Afghans they massacred, Pro US dead, Pro USSR dead. This caused the majority of the population of Afghanistan to flee the USSR 40th Army Occupation's Total Conventional War of Carpet Bombing, Chemical Weapons (mustard gas, agent purple, poisoning water wells, etc.), Tank Companies leveling Afghan villages and massacring all inhabitants, millions of Area Denial Weapons (Land mines), being Conventional Warfare the USSR attempt to hold the ground by building hundreds of thousand of bases all over Afghanistan.

...are almost indecipherable. You say that the majority of the Afghanistan people fled the USSR military, but neglect to say where, then, mid-sentence proceed to detail the atrocities committed by the Soviet Military, and their strategic methods. All this in one, run-on sentence.

Are you saying that the majority of the Afghan people actually fled the country during the Soviet invasion? If so, I seriously doubt it. If you are saying that many Afghans became refugees within their nation's borders, I would probably agree.

Are you trying to equate U.S. strategies to those followed by the Soviets 30 years ago? If so, I'd say that while there are informative parallels, you were greatly exaggerating the similarities and ignoring the obvious differences.

Signed the 1% US Military Middle East Qualified Asymmetric Warfare Forces of the 3% of US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces of the 97% US Military Conventional Warfare Forces of the 1% of US Citizens currently Serving in the US Military of the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military.

I've read the above sentence 3 times and still have trouble understanding your point.

Who or what signed 1% of U.S. Military Middle East Qualified Asymmetric Warfare Forces? And what did this signing signify?

My guess as to you message, is that 92% of the U.S. population, having never served in the military, have no skin in the game, and... have no right to an opinion or a vote on the subject. If so, I respectfully disagree.

dman-353357 - rrobeson - Sorry, I'm not buying it. Once we removed the power structure ruling Iraq, we created a potential problem far bigger than Saddam Hussein.

That is a real understatement. Who ever heard of Overthrowing a US Ally? Go read this link and figure out who demanded the Overthrow of President Hussein and why:

Yes, I looked at the link. I already knew that after the Iranian revolution, the U.S. maintained a loose alliance with Iraq, providing technical and logistical assistance to the Iraq Military in its protracted war with Iran.

So what?

Alliances last for as long as it suites all parties involved. In 1941, the USSR was our ally. This lasted precisely until the day the Japanese surrendered, at which point USSR became our bitter rival for influence in the world. Iraq was our ally when we needed a more or less dependable counter-weight for Iran in the region. That was between 1979 and 1988. Once these two nations ceased fighting one another, the span of our common interests began to narrow, and the first Gulf War, ended it.

While I do not in any sense feel that the Iraq Invasion of 2003 was justified, either morally, or in terms of our own self interests, I would scarcely term it an invasion of an ally, not in 2003. Just like the Soviets during the Cold War, we had long ceased to be allies, and were now rivals.

Finally, I do wish you a happy and long retirement from the military. My disagreements [and sometimes confusion] regarding some of your views on U.S. policy in the ME, should not indicate I'm unappreciative of your apparent long service in the U.S. Military, and the losses and sacrifices this no doubt entailed.

Oops, in post 2.14, I meant to write that Afghanistan was involved in the 9/11 attacks. Instead I wrote "Afghanistan was not uninvolved in the 9/11 attacks", which is factually correct, but uses a misleading double-negative (was not uninvolved).

Unfortunately, once a couple of minutes have passed, one's post, with all its grammatical, factual and logical mistakes, is there for all eternity, or at least, for as long as they keep old threads on file here.

The Taliban were NOT involved in 9-11, Al Qaeda was the group that did it. The Taliban were the ones fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, and once the Russians left the Taliban took over the tribal groups. TX horseman, "left we forget", the people that are fighting mad at us in Afghanistan are the Taliban. However, they did not ever do 9-11.

Partially correct, Willow, the Taliban were not the direct perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. But, they did provide a safe staging ground from which Al Qaeda orchestrated its attacks on the U.S. and other Western targets.

To aid and abet our enemies, as Taliban did, is to be our enemy. If they had not done so, we would not be there today, and the New York skyline would still feature the World Trade Center Towers.

Only to be directed by the Sunni Saudi Islamic ruling beasts and their agents like oil companies and lobbyists into Iran and Syria!

An Indian teenager died Sunday after being beaten by a group of boys when he dropped a catch during a game of cricket earlier this month.

I realize that this kid was Indian, but it points to the type of society with which we are dealing. Get out of this Afghan $hithole!

Wagonmaster: Why is Indian news coming in here? Are you messed up like George Bushes in locating nations on the map?

Now one can understand, why Bushes attacked Iraq twice and Afghanistan instead of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

They became allies on "war on terror" too!

No wonder: now the same people are getting mixed up in Syria and Iran!

This is exactly what you get expecting these people to respond to the "western" way. Got news, there are people all over this planet that do not want to live like we do, this is one of them. After we took out 98% of Al Quaida 8 years ago we should have left, we will never defeat the Taliban, ask Russia how that worked out for them. No more occupying middle eastern countries. Let someone else teach these goat herders to drive and stand up for themselves. Like most all Muslim countries, they will never amount to anything. Any country that keeps half it's population, females, as third class citizens, they will never be anything but a disaster. Bring the troops home, NOW!

We HAVE to stay in Afghanistan and better yet start a new war in Iran or somewhere else to keep the Republicans happy and the war profits pouring in to their "constituents".......who all work to "Keep us Safe" in the US.................don't you know those "facts"

Another 2 years is another $trillion in debt, plus interest, another 400 to 1,000 Americans dead, another few thousand with horrible wounds and tens of thousands with PTSD who will need and receive medical care, gubmint jobs for the next 30 to 40 years. And for what ? So a few can claim they helped dig a well, or build a school, or train some policemen ? Pack it up and bring 'em home. IT's way past time.

Jonathan-1982062,

Stop trying to blame Sunnis US Ally Saudi Arabia for what the Shia FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM are doing.

Sunnis = Moderate, Pro Western, Liberal Interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran) and Islam.

Shia = Shiites Fundamentalist Islamic Interpretation only. Sharia derived from Shia, as Shia Law (aka Sharia Law).

The Islamic Republic of Iran = Shia, Shiites, Sharia Laws, as Fundamentalist Islam.

US Ally Saudi Arabia = Sunnis, Moderate, Pro Western, Liberal Interpretation of Islam.

Syria = Sunnis Government with attempts by Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada Syria to currently overthrow the Syrian Established Government, like the Fundamentalist Islamic Muslim Brotherhood did at Egypt, the Fundamentalist Islamic Libyan Islamic Fighting Group did at Libya, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada Yemen almost did at Yemen.

Fundamentalist Islamic = Taliban, Al Quada (AQ, AQS, AQY, AQI, AQIM, AQAP, etc.), Army of Islam Gaza, Army of Islam Pakistan, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc..

US Ally Government of Pakistan = not Fundamentalist Islamic; the People of Pakistan are Fundamentalist Islamic.

So sure the US is going to attack the US Ally Government of Saudi Arabia because the Fundamentalist Islamic Islamic Jihadists Organization, Al Quada, just happens to be at Saudi Arabia, with the US Ally Saudi Arabia Government still trying to eliminate them since Al Quada Saudi Arabia was originally started as a Anti US Ally Saudi Government and Anti US and US Ally Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization. I want to see you hunt down thousands of people in the US that are living below the radar, off the grid, fully funded thru Mandatory Islamic Tithes and abetted thru the Imams, that have the Mission of Overthrowing your Government.

Shows how much you refuse to do the real research or lack the Real World Experience.

These criminial soldiers do these things because they know nothing will happen to them,and if a decent soldier report those kind of acts they go to jail without trial for ever,Pvt,Manning is gone for ever for reporting this kind of crimes.

War is full of atrocities, whats done is done, lets bring the troops home and let them defend our borders.

.

Your country's armed miscreants and corporate thugs were not welcome in 2001 anymore than the USSR was welcome in 1979. Americans should really read the international press to get a sense of what is really going on outside in the neighborhood.

louisrz

It wasn't 16 children, it was 16 civilians of which there were women and children. Get the facts straight. The soldier should face charges and consequences for his actions, but not in a kangaroo court in a nation that is emotionally unstable. The military court can try him, and they still have punishments that are severe for cases like this. With 16 counts of murder, he will at the very least never see the outside of Leavenworth again and could be executed. I am much more interested in why he did it.

John Nettles

Tell that to the families of the 6 US soldiers killed a couple weeks ago by an Afghan soldier! Show that kind of disrespect to the families of any of the soldiers that have died defending your right to say such trash. I hope they show you just how much your sorry backside is worth.

Pvt. Manning is not a hero, he is a traitor. He is not gone, but is on trial for his crimes. The e-mails and other materials he released publicly were all classified to one degree or another, in order to obtain his security clearance to handle them, he had to sign several security agreements which clearly stated the consequences for what he has done. What he did is not heroic, nor is it even brave, rather it is the mark of a petty angry fool.

These criminial soldiers do these things because they know nothing will happen to them,and if a decent soldier report those kind of acts they go to jail without trial for ever,Pvt,Manning is gone for ever for reporting this kind of crimes

These are the words of someone that has NEVER SERVE int he military. You are probably one of those people that has no idea what goes on in combat. Stop watching "Dancing with the Stars"and read some statistics about "Post traumatic Stress Disorder".

So nice to just be sanctimonious behind a computer.

Sheisss!

War itself is an atrocity.
We take young people who may have never been away from home and teach them to kill.
We plop them down in the middle of a foreign land where they are in danger every moment of every day, and then act surprised when they snap?
How ironic.
War doesn't determine who's right: only who's left.

1. Did Iraq invite the US, British and NATO forces?

2. Why did the US, British and NATO forces unnecessarily poke their noses in Yugoslavia?

3. Why are there scare and war mongering and drum beats by McCain and co on Iran and Syria? They conveniently forget the WMDs of Pakis.

Sunni Saudi ruling seventh century beasts, oil companies, lobbyists and their agents, by liberally throwing around monies, determine the US, British and many European nations foreign policies.

Rest are hoaxes by them to the galleries and their cheer leaders. They were done during Iraqi wars (1991 and 2003).

You can’t believe it. The same gangs of Saudis and co declare on Syria and Iran: JUMP!

Right wing politicians like McCains and co, right wing Christian and Jewish nut cases and others ask: HOW HIGH?

louisrz, i cant think of anything worst than some like you that doesnt have any reading skills. he did NOT kill 16 children., You must work for Obama and the anti Gun industry. heres the REAL info/

a middle-of-the-night shooting spree that local officials said killed 16 civilians, including nine children and three women.

In case you cant do math either ....... that shows 4 men also killed.

Tina-293371 wrote:

War doesn't determine who's right: only who's left.

And those who are "left," often aren't all there afterwards, either. The day we finally move past war, is the day we finally evolve. Until then, we are all still just savages.

The set up has worked, the only thing to do now is get our troops out of there and get this failed administration out of Washington asap. We need leadership that will stop trying to be one of the world order members and take care of our country. England has the good sense to suspend immigration totally until the economic mess gets straightened out, we must do the same but we won't be able to until we get leaders who know how and want to be American leaders.

Let's see now, commander-in-chief, that would be the president wouldn't it? Would that make him responsible for the actions of his subordinates?

So long as there are as many as two humans, war will be likely. We are what we are. We are never going to change. The sooner you accept that reality, the sooner you become wise.

deleted

IWonder-932455 wrote:

So long as there are as many as two humans, war will be likely. We are what we are. We are never going to change. The sooner you accept that reality, the sooner you become wise.

If that's your idea of wisdom, go back and meditate in the temple for a few more decades. Very few people want war. For some reason, it really isn't looked upon as a 'good thing' by most. But those who profit off of war, like the corporations who supply arms, and the banks who finance them, sure do. The first group would surely go out of business if all wars were to come to and end. The second group might simply raise consumer interest rates or sneak some extra fees in to make up for the difference.

Hm dr. cat, for as long as history has been kept, we've been at war. Long before there were any corporations, in fact long before there was money. Can't you understand that there was war before there was anything more than, "you have what I want." Can't you understand that we have not changed in the course of recorded history and I see no indication that we are going to, in the future.

If you know something to the contrary, if you can refute what I have said, please enlighten me?

A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Dr.Cat

Iwonder is right, sad but true. It is in our own nature to be predatory animals, it is what drives our desire for survival. War is an ugly and atrocious thing, barbaric no matter how cleanly it is fought. But as long as someone covets what someone else has, or as long as one person disagrees with another over who is right, there will be fighting. We have made no progress in preventing wars on progress in limiting the killing as a civilized society. The Taliban and others want to regress back to a more primal time where they killed everyone in sight that wasn't on their side. Yet you and others call us the barbarians.

get out,and get out now,thisplace is a cesspool

Archangel 316,Irespond2315268.

I will not lower my intelligence down to others level to communicate with some,but I was in Korea most likely before you were born,it is not something that I am proud of and I will be clear about it I was not there protecting your back,the US does not give a hoot about the common Joe.

jonathan-

1) they did find 3k tons of yellowcake.

2) we stuck our nose in yugoslavia cause they blew an American f/a-18 outta the sky w/o warning. the a/c was patrolling and accidently strayed into yugoslavian airspace and they fired 4 SAM's at the a/c. it strayed less than a quarter of a mile into their airspace.

3) cause they are idiots. we need to leave these countries and if the taliwackers ever attack another country conduct a war w/o putting boots on the ground. let them know that no matter where they are we can reach out and touch them or eliminate them.

tylor: 1. US and NATO troops had to be air lifted from Saigon airport in one of the biggest defeats of war!

2. During 9/11, even brave Pres Bush, Jr had to hide in basement and Pentagon was attacked. More than 3000 killed.

3. Heavily debted to China creating another record!

What are you talking from your own cuckoo nest?

saigon was in 75. by then we had pulled all our combat troops out and the nva decided to attack and they quickly overran south vietnam's poorly trained , underequipped army. google operation frequent wind. it was the embassy not the airport we airlifted SV civilians from.

the president was taken to safety by the secret service who in an emergency has control over where he goes to safety. he went to AF1 then to fort meade then after the skies were cleared by the faa back to washington for that nights address to the us.

it sucks that we are in debt. also instead of cutting the military they should shift units from active to reserve so that both the people and their skills and their equipment is manned and kept in shape in case we ever need them.

They have oil? All this time I thought we were fighting terrorism. Was it the lithium and the opium that we really wanted?

To prevent another 9/11 we need intelligence not guys with guns occupying a country. We need people infiltrating their terrorist cells not people wearing a uniform which basically has a target on their backs. Weird $hit happens when you don't even know how your enemy really looks like. Leave terrorism to the intelligence agencies, that is their part. Our soilders are for war, as in decimating other soilders in uniform, not attacking someone who may or may not be an enemy.

ItIsWhat,

I have to agree..there is something to precise to be a mistake in this Staff Sgt's actions. He accomplished a specific task and then marches back and turns himself in...something a little strange here. Not sure we will ever hear the whole story. Why march back and turn yourself in...are you hoping to make some sort of political point or just scare the locals to get them to stop trying to storm the base? With our current leadership I almost expect them to turn this Sgt. over to the Afghans.

Unless the soldier killed himself after the crimes, the locals would surely kill him with extreme prejudice. He can't blend in, and he cannot speak Pashto, or he would be in a NATO office with a higher salary. There were other Americans involved burning the bodies of the children. Nice way to yap on about nation building yanks.

Unless the soldier killed himself after the crimes, the locals would surely kill him with extreme prejudice

He turned himself to the authorities. He probably was having such a difficult time with the whole situation. The locals will kill OTHER soldiers in revenge. If you think they were mad before, we are REALLY going to learn the meaning of HATE now.

Time to leve them ALONE in their own land. We are the intruders. Think about that event happening here. How many Americans would like to have a foreign soldier going around with a weapon killing innocent civilians??? WE ARE THE TERRORISTS NOW.

DOU44 - the International Press is covering many more parts of this story - even MSNBC's subtitle is out of context - it should read:

Samad Khan, a farmer who said he lost all 11 members of his family, said villagers would demand the Americans hand over the shooter – a demand that will not be met – before deciding what action to take. "This is an anti-human and anti-Islamic act," said Mr Khan. "Nobody is allowed, in any religion in the world, to kill children and women."

Of course, MSNBC only chose the line "anti-Islamic," MSNBC also has not stated that the staff sergeant "appeared drunk" (could have been high), tried to burn the bodies, etc. The reports from reputable International News agencies are being ignored because the Powers that Be don't want a full report of this atrocity. Ignorance is bliss to many Americans.

Link: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/afghans-vow-vengeance-for-soldiers-killing-spree-7561637.html

The soldier in question is not a young man or new to the Military. From Le Monde:

Selon le New York Times, l'auteur des faits est un sergent de 38 ans, marié, père de deux enfants, qui aurait été déployé trois fois en Irak et servait pour la première fois en Afghanistan. Il serait dans l'armée depuis onze ans.

"The New York Times has reported the accused is a 38 year old sargent, married with two children, he was deployed three times in Iraq and was serving his first time in Afghanistan. He has been in the Army for 12 years."

Link: http://www.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2012/03/12/les-talibans-jurent-de-venger-le-massacre-de-civils-afghans-par-un-soldat-americain_1656235_3216.html

NYT Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-civilians-killed-american-soldier-held.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

The worst Muslim may win too, but, our troops being there is not really going to make a difference in those situations.

Obama should have declared victory 3 years ago and brought the troops home.

But we all know he is no more in charge then was Bush.

Japan got fixed against their will. So did Germany

You don't know much, do you?

David-1023706 writes:

Japan got fixed against their will. So did Germany

These were 'Industrialized' Nations - not 'Tribal'

Japan and Germany were in depression before WWII. Japan was in need of oil and Germany was paying reperations to France. After the war, much like the U.S. economy, their economies had a boom. I believe it was the economic reasons that allowed a person like Hitler to take such power. Econmic boom equals=no more problems. Afganistan's problems are alot more complicated than that, its not really money which is their problem, its a mix of everything, and we can't fix something of "mix" of everything can we?

Especially since occupying that big military base north of Kabul with which to harass Russia, China and Iran was the only goal. Your gov't needed a lackey and Karzai was groomed and installed. It's that easy to understand if you read the papers by the men who devised these goals in the 1980s.

ihpirate

It was stupidity and fear that brought down the Soviet Union not Afghanistan. Reagan broke their backs with SDI and Stealth. They couldn't afford what they were spending and those two programs alone would have tripled the amounts they needed to spend, that is what broke the Soviet Union. They tried to keep up when they never really had too.

I agree, Iraq was a complete waste, but Afghanistan was war we must fight. I don't know where you are coming from but there was such a thing as 9/11. Our nation was attacked, and when a nation is attacked there is always retaliation.

Attacked by Saudis. The Taliban offered to give Bin Laden up BEFORE 9-11. President Bush was busines partners with the Bin Laden and Saud families. Yet, he ordered an attack on Afghanistan anyway, without a congressional declaration of war.

In essence, we attacked the wrong country.

Standup

Get your head out of the sand will you. Afghanistan, rather the Taliban brought this on themselves. Bush asked them several times to turn over Bin Laden or face the consequences. The choice was theirs and it cost them many lives. As for Iraq, well maybe your to young to remember, but Kuwait actually asked the US for help and as an ally and trading partner we were obliged to aid them. When Bush 43 went back into Iraq, it was inevitable that it would have happened sooner or later, his mistake was staying to long after Saddam was overthrown.

At least 14 youths have been stoned to death in Baghdad in the past three weeks in what appears to be a campaign by Shiite militants against youths wearing Western-style "emo" clothes and haircuts, security and hospital sources say.

And this is what we get for losing so many good people in trying to bring democracy to Iraq. Maybe ol' Saddam wasn't so bad after all?!?!? At least he knew how to deal with his fellow animals!

The only thing we are going to do in Afghanistan until the end of 2014 is lose more good people - young American youth that have been changed by a war that cannot be won. For Christ sake, ask the Russians what they think about Afghanistan - a no-win, no-win. Get out now!

what gets me is we send kids over there over and over again, these kids can't even buy a beer or go to a casino and play, these kids fight for us and we think things like this is not going to happen, these kids have not even started to live and we send them to kill or be killed, not one time but many times, it's time we get out of there and build america

Not to disagree with Sen. Chuck Schumer - D-NY. but the major question mark may be Mullah Omar

and not Karzai. The United States has been hoping to capture the Taliban leader for a decade. To

secure peace in Afghanistan, will it have to negotiate with him instead?

ModelTrainMan...uhhh...the US Soldier was not a kid.

thinking citizen- nope, bush got both us congress and united nations approval for both wars. like they say "that dog won't hunt."

afghanistan was necessary but iraq we coulda done w/ drones and airpower and small spec ops teams.

We went there to hunt Osama and the Taliban. Osama is dead, however, there is like an infinite amount of Taliban there. That is an endless war, so there is no real reason to be there.

Its really Sad, to see A Country that Used to be a World Beacon in terms, of finishing Good products ,that exports to the World Market.A Highly technologies in terms, Manufacturering High End by products, within the last century. BUT now the country with his SOLE major exports the "War Killing Machines" now well known to the World-Wide as it's Sole Business Core Trademark.

Those idots were thinking to counter punch the idiots who killed 3000 American people.

and yet some how we completely missed Saudi Arabia.

In essence, we attacked the wrong country.

and yet some how we completely missed Saudi Arabia.

Yes, we sure did. These 'Terrorists' also sure did a great job of picking a day that the US Air Force was taken far away from the NE Corridor while performing 'Drills' in the NW and Canada with the RCAF pertaining to the use of commercial aircraft as weapons against major landmarks and buildings, leaving the Pentagon, WTC, Whitehouse, and the school in Florida(which was just as likely an attack target if there were truly 'terrorists' which were trying to destroy America) that the President Clown was at, yet his 'Handlers' did not evacuate the President Clown. Hmmmm. And then his entire Administration lied, saying that no one EVER imagined that Commercial Jets would or could be used as weapons.

Guess they knew that the President was never in any danger. Just as they knew to leave Americans unprotected in order to propalgate the War Machine Industrial Complex's ulterior motives.

Treason at the Highest Level.

All just a coincidence, I am sure.

Meanwhile, this Focker that murdered these 16 people gets the attention while all of the other 10s of Thousands of Iraqi and Afghani innocents murdered are swept under the rug.

What a disgusting scam and disgrace to this Great Country we know as the USA.

I am only sad that it has taken this long for My Fellow Americans to see just how much Bull@!$%# has been being pulled for Decades by the Elites in the Oil-Run Government which profiteer at the expense of the vast majority of the Citizenry.

But waking up to the Truth we are.

God Bless America. We sure are gonna need it in the upcoming years as our Oceans die and Our Lands and Water become further poisoned by the Big Ag, Pharma, and Energy Giants.

Enjoy the Corn we are becoming...

"Real World or Drill?"

Peace

I agree with you Telperien should have done that first then gone in and cleaned out what was left of the lowlives

Only thing is democratic countries don't look to kindly to that, but we did that in iraq and somehow got away with it.

@Telperien: Oh dear, another gormless Drudge Drone. You are a savage, you just don't realise it.

Telperien

Our fight wasn't with the Afghan people, it was with the Taliban government and Al Qaeda. Carpet bombing would have killed lots of innocent bystanders, which puts you in the same category as the soldier or soldiers who went on this rampage but with much less motivation.

Same mentality as the Soldier(s) Gone Wild.

Idiot Morons.

So your solution is fight the government and its constitution.

This wouldn't be the first time a soldier has wandered off a base alone. The last one that did just went out to take a quick pi$$ and never came back.

If going in a rampage is all it takes to end wars, I would have enlisted a long time ago.

Read some of General WT Sherman's quotes.
He understood war.

@ Phenomenal: Simply going on a ramapge like that does not end wars. My guess is the war will now come to us. Why do you think Iran is trying to arm Chavez?

I really do not care WHO get the election in 2012: I only hope WHOEVER does tries to do what is best for the country. We need that- now....

Americans are not dying in high numbers at all. The engagements have been quite limited so that there will not be many or any US casualties. During Vietnam, the casualty counts were on the nightly TV news: 10-75 minimum every night. And historians find out years later that the Pentagon was lying about the number of NVA and Vietcong killed during the entire war. Don't expect the truth from the Americans.

ABC news reported that the shooter had served 3 hitches in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. I'm not a soldier but this seems like an over the top amount of active duty. Is that the goal of the army? to put you in the fight until you're killed or go crazy?

"Yes, this is a terrible thing that happened, but..." There is no "but". It was terrible and it was wrong. We no have to face the repercussions of this soldier's actions and it appears that more soldiers are going to die because of what he did. That won't make it right and it won't satisfy the hate that the Talban feel for us. Yes, there should be an investigation, but by any legal American standard, it is unlikely that he did not know what he was doing and did not know it was wrong. I hope that I am wrong about that, but it won't change anything if I am. The Taliban don't care why it happened. It just added gasoline to an inferno and it will be our soldiers that will pay the price because our govt. refuses to listen to our people and bring our troops home.

There's no budget for wars on terrorism.. It's a never ending war.. it'll go on forever.. At taxpayer's expense.. The world's banks just continue lending money to the waring parties at interest..

poolman1

old. You are not an American! @!$%# you and you selfish liberal party!

I see you're crazier than Hell and have never been to War. You should also study history.

Look up Nasiriyah, March 23rd 2003, Charlie Company! Task Force Tarawa! @!$%# you squid!

@poolman1: Oh dear, another gormless Drudge Drone. You are a savage, you just don't realise it

Why doesn't someone tell that turkey in the Whitehouse to shut up and quit apologizing. Give that sgt a freakin medal and 30 days r&r in a place of his choice. What a bunch of spineless weasels. Afghanistan should be sterilized.

It's a "muslim" turkey in the whitehouse

I agree Jack.

It does not matter how many "they" killed. Sometimes something is just plain wrong and this incident is one of those things. No matter what kind of spin you put on it, it is still wrong and there is no way to excuse or rationalize it to make it right. It was a tragedy. It was murder. It was wrong. Now, it appears, our govt. is going to allow the Taliban to exact their revenge by keeping out troops in harms way--regardless of the fact that they had nothing to do with this incident. More of our troops are going to die--and soon--so that we can satisfy the Taliban's blood lust for revenge. It is the only way...We need to bring our troops home and not make them sacrificial lambs for some @sshole's crimes. What happened was wrong and nothing anyone can do will bring back those lost innocent lives. We should just leave...Yes, sometimes it is the right thing to do to say I'm so sorry for your loss.

Nice one!

The reason you did not get an apology from Muslims when Maj.Nidal Hasan killed 13 Americans is because he does not represent all Muslims. Being Muslim is only one attribute of his. He was an American citizen, and an army officer. You have to understand Islam is a religion and not a race of people. The word Muslim means some one who choses to follow Islam. Are there Muslim communities, sure there are, but they can't take responsibility for the actions of every Muslim man, specially that bat @hit crazy Major. Islam is the most divided religion. Does the whole christian community apologize for the actions of priests molesting children? No, it was the actions of that one man which should not define the actions of a whole religious community. I think the problem of America is that we always try to find ways to divide ourselves amogst ourselves. Instead, lets look for commonalities, and unite to make a better nation.

Hear hear!

It is not the United States, UN or any other governments right to invade & force another's country to change it's cutlure, we would fight it all the way. Besides the main reason our gov stay is to have a foot hold in the region why else this so called Urban warfare instead of bringing in the big equipment.

As for the soldier, should he not be tried instead of being automatically guiltly based on enemy propaganda.

If you honestly think that the president of a country whose armed soldier, under that country's flag, slaughters civilians and children in an act of wanton mass murder SHOULDN'T apologize, then there is simply no reasoning with you, because you're clearly insane.

There isn't a leader of a single civilized country on Earth that wouldn't apologize for this massacre. And there's not a single US president in history who wouldn't do the same thing as Obama is doing here. The actions of this US soldier will have exceptionally severe consequences and Obama isn't being "weak" by apologizing for this man's actions. Imagine the outrage if a soldier of an occupying army here in the US went from house to house in your neighborhood, executing families and children who were just trying to go about their lives as best as they could. That's the sort of outrage that is going to befall any American abroad now.

I'm personally an American living overseas in a Muslim country, and things like this obviously make it just that more dangerous. It goes without saying that every American soldier in Afghanistan will be in considerably greater peril because of this man's actions. This is EVERY bit as deplorable as 9/11, just on a much smaller scale. The premeditated outright murder of innocent civilians. Not a scrap of difference apart from scale and method.

Our Nation Building knows no limits, on Profits nor Boundaries.

You have not seen anything yet, its just getting started

No matter what "they" did or did not do--It won't make this ok. It was wrong. It will always be wrong. They are responsible for what they do. We are responsible for what we do. No amount of rationalizing is going to change that simple fact.

Vietnam policies are still in effect.