E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSAn American staff sergeant is in custody after allegedly killing 16 civilians, including nine children, in a shooting spree in Afghanistan. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 7:24 a.m. ET: A U.S. soldier's shooting of 16 Afghan civilians deepened questions on Monday about what the United States can accomplish in Afghanistan before it withdraws, as Washington rushed to contain the damage from the startling rogue attack.
President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta spoke to Afghan President Hamid Karzai by telephone and offered condolences for the attack, in which a U.S. soldier left his base in southern Afghanistan and began a middle-of-the-night shooting spree that local officials said killed nine children, three women, and four men.
"This incident is tragic and shocking," Obama said in a statement.
Reports of the attack remain confused. U.S. officials say only one soldier was involved, while villagers and other Afghans said it was a group of soldiers. But the Obama administration vowed a rapid investigation and promised to hold whoever was behind the violence fully responsible.
Retired General Barry McCaffrey, an NBC News military analyst, talks to TODAY's Matt Lauer about what could have possibly driven a U.S. soldier to killed 16 civilians, including nine children, in Afghanistan.
The soldier suspected of being responsible has been detained but has yet to be identified. However, a senior U.S. defense official confirmed to NBC News that he is based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, south of Tacoma, Wash.
LIVE Chat: Ask NBC's Afghanistan correspondent your questions about the attack 12:00-12:30p.m.ET
While U.S. officials rushed to draw a line between the shooting and the ongoing efforts of a U.S. force of around 90,000, the incident is sure to infuriate Afghans already suspicious of a Western military presence now over a decade old. The incident may provide ammunition to those in Washington advocating for an accelerated exit from a long, costly and inconclusive war.
'American savages'
NBC News reported that there were no signs of demonstrations early Monday.
In a statement Monday, the Afghan Taliban pledged to "take revenge" against the "sick-minded American savages," according to the AFP news agency.
"The American 'terrorists' want to come up with an excuse for the perpetrator of this inhumane crime by claiming that this immoral culprit was mentally ill," the Taliban statement added. "If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."
Last month, the burning of copies of the Quran on a NATO military base triggered violent protests across the country and a spate of insider attacks against Western soldiers.
Afghan suspect's base has recent history of controversies
$500 billion war bill
Sunday's attack may harden a growing consensus in Washington that, despite a troop surge, a war bill exceeding $500 billion and nearly 2,000 U.S. lives lost, prospects are dimming for what the United States can accomplish in Afghanistan before it pulls most troops out by the end of 2014.
Obama's surge of 33,000 troops has beaten the Taliban back from some areas of Afghanistan's south, but serious doubts remain about whether an inexperienced local military and wobbly central government can keep a resilient insurgency at bay.
Pete Souza / White House via Reuters
President Barack Obama talks on a phone with Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai from his vehicle in Chevy Chase, Md., on Sunday.
"These killings only serve to reinforce the mindset that the whole war is broken and that there's little we can do about it beyond trying to cut our losses and leave," said Joshua Foust, a security expert with the American Security Project.
Afghans haven’t traditionally responded with violence or widespread protests to civilian deaths, the Christian Science Monitor reported, as many view such behavior as a byproduct of war.
Report: Suspect is Iraq veteran, married father of two children
But, Abdul Rahim Ayobi, a member of Parliament from Kandahar told the Monitor, “it gives us the message that the American soldiers are not under the control of their generals and these American generals have failed to manage them.”
If the incident triggers retaliatory violence against Western troops, it may well help shape ongoing deliberations within the Obama administration about how quickly U.S. soldiers should be withdrawn, possibly strengthening the case of those surrounding the president who back a more decisive drawdown.
Obama and other NATO leaders are expected to define their plans for gradually trimming Western forces and putting Afghan troops in charge of security when they meet at a NATO summit in Chicago in May.
'The house of cards is falling'
Most Western combat troops are expected to be gone by the end of 2014, but some U.S. soldiers could remain beyond then, likely focusing on targeted strikes on militants and supporting local forces, who will need outside help for years to come.
"This is terrible timing for people who either want to stay through 2014 or even extend the U.S. presence there," Foust said. "Though the overall number of (similar) incidents remains pretty low, there is a broad and growing perception that now both sides are dysfunctional and committing murder, or the house of cards is falling."
In a post on Twitter, Pentagon spokesman George Little said the incident would not change the U.S. mission. "The recent tragedy in Afghanistan will not deter us from pursuing our fundamental strategy. We've come too far with our Afghan partners."
Sunday's shooting may dispel the goodwill created by an agreement reached on Friday on control over military prisons in Afghanistan, which had been one of the remaining stumbling blocks to reaching a deal governing future U.S.-Afghan ties.
MSNBC military analyst Gen. Barry McCaffrey (Ret.) says the alleged shooting of Afghan civilians by a US soldier is a 'further unraveling' of relations between the US and Afghanistan.
Andrew Exum, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security and former Army Ranger, said the shootings come at a sensitive time in negotiations on that deal, which the White House wanted to unveil by the May summit.
"One wonders whether or not internal political pressures in Afghanistan will constrain the options of Afghan negotiators on subjects ranging from U.S. basing rights to night raids," Exum said.
Some U.S. officials told the New York Times that the Taliban hard-liners could be emboldened by the incidents. “The fear,” one U.S. official told the Times, “ is that all these incidents, taken together, play into the Taliban’s account of how we treat the Afghan religion and people.”
Election impact?
The shootings may complicate things for Obama ahead of November's presidential election.
While jobs and the economy will likely remain the focus of the presidential race, the White House has hoped to point to a series of foreign policy successes, such as the killing of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, to shore up Obama's support.
The recent tumult in Afghanistan may increase the pressure Obama faces in coming months from fellow Democrats who favor a more rapid drawdown.
Family loses 2 sons in Afghanistan
While many Republicans have warned against pulling out too quickly, conservative presidential candidate Newt Gingrich voiced a very different view.
"There's something profoundly wrong with the way we're approaching the whole region and I think it's going to get substantially worse, not better. And I think that we're risking the lives of young men and women in a mission that may frankly not be doable," Gingrich said on "Fox News Sunday."
He said Washington should consider pulling out of Afghanistan and reconsider its role in the entire region.
Qais Usyan / AFP - Getty Images
More than a decade after the beginning of the war, Afghanistan faces external pressure to reform as well as ongoing internal conflicts.
"I understand the anger and the sorrow," said John McCain, the senior Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who like many other Republicans has warned a hasty withdrawal will undermine U.S. security in the long run.
"I also understand that we should not forget that the attacks on the United States of America on 9/11 originated in Afghanistan, and if Afghanistan dissolved into a situation where the Taliban were able to take over, or a chaotic situation, it could easily return to an al-Qaida base for attacks," he said on "Fox News Sunday."
UK mourns four 20-year-olds killed in Afghan attack
Further complicating the matter is the limited patience many of Obama's top supporters have for Karzai, who has demanded an explanation for Sunday's shootings, which he called "intentional murders."
"The great weakness in Afghanistan is Karzai," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. "Nobody seems to trust him or like him. And the idea of turning it over to the Afghan forces is the right way to go, but that's a major question mark: Karzai."
In the meantime, U.S. officials in Washington and on the ground appeared to be bracing themselves for a backlash.
The U.S. Embassy, on its Twitter feed, said the movement of U.S. personnel in southern Afghanistan would be restricted and warned that "anti-American feelings and protests" may be ahead.
Michael O'Hanlon, a military expert at the Brookings Institution, said the quick, conciliatory statements from senior American officials were wise, but added that it might not be possible to staunch Afghan fury that may be unleashed by the killings.
"I don't know that a lot can be done," he said.
NBC News, msnbc.com staff, Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
You can make temporary "progress" by building them roads, bridges, schools, dams, but how long until they tear them up, burn them down or blow them up?
We'd probably have better luck traveling to Africa and trying to nation-build with a tribe of chimpanzees or gorillas. At least chimps don't have RPG's and AK47's.
Hey pagan, I think I saw you holding a cardboard sign on the side of the freeway exit yesterday!
Heil Tea!
Sorry not a tea bagger. I did have apes on the brain though, since I watched "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" the other day.
And they do burn western-built schools over there, especially ones for girls.
It reminds me of the corporate guy Selfridge in "Avatar" said about the Navi: "We try to give them medicine, education...uh...uh...roads! But no, no, no! They like mud."
And the reason we are in the Middle East is for the oil (instead of "unobtanium" like in the movie). If a country doesn't have oil and we are there, it is because they are strategically positioned NEAR a country that does.
Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The British and Russians both found this out. We're deluded if we think we will do better. And its a worse situation than Iraq, which is also an artificial Western-designed country with Western-drawn borders with no respect to ethnic groups---they are a tribal people... not a national people.
The sooner we are gone from there, the better.
Bring the troops hone now. WE did not learn anything in Viet Nam I guess. Stay where your not wanted and S@*t happens. Pull out let them kill each other off.
Viet nam is a tourist attraction now. The middle east as nothing to offer. Level it.
Now let's put on our thinking caps and ask ourselves a question, Brian. Would Vietnam now be a tourist attraction had we leveled it during the war, as people like you were rabidly demanding?
The real losers in this fiasco after Nato gets the hell out of hell and the Taliban take over and get their revenge will be the female population, both girls and women.
We should have pulled out right after they got who they were after BL. The longer we stay there the more it's going to backfire on us. At this point we have no business hanging around causing problems and angering the Afghans. I think it's all about money. The billions they keep pouring into that place is easy to steal, hell they don't know where half of it goes. The military wants to stay because they need someplace to play there's no promotions stateside. The U.S. has turned into the most warlike country in the last 200 years, we've been in some kind of war for the last 70 years. Lets bring the troops home and spend the money where it's most needed, right here!
We have o business in a Muslim country. It's hard enough for these soldiers to be in a place they don't want to be and watch their comrade get killed by a bunch of ungodly people who want to die for glory. When our soldiers are sent into battle by a Muslim president who sympathize with islam and their religious beliefs, we have a problem. Where was the left wing media in the last couple of weeks when our soldiers were being slaughtered by the people who we were training. I had family in Afghanistan and they told me of the horrible pressure that is put on them. I was in Vietnam and know what happens in war. Our elected officials would care less about our troops but sympathises with our hateful enemy. This Staff Sgt had enough and decided to even the odds. Congress has no earthly idea what war is all about. Most of them have never been there. Get our troops out. Afghanistan and the whole region is nothing but a waste land. I believe that the USA has had enough of our elected officials foolishness.
to Cecile, and ALL Other Real Americans, here,
and Also
to Those "pretending to Be American", YOU Non-Americans, here,
THIS Question:
THIS World, That WE "mortal men and women, are The Integral PART,
has been "promised" an *End Of Days*,
when Mankind WILL BE Divinely AWARE of GOD, and Live HEAVEN-on Earth;
but, UNTIL that Day, "in the Future",.... GOD WILLING....,
*THERE WILL BE WAR*....!!!!
....with Intervals of a "Peace", that were fought for, and Imposed and Protected,
BY The (at that time) Current *RULING WORLD POWER*'s ==> Nation/Belief <==
*WAR*, will Happen in EVERY CENTURY, that This World Exists.
and
*PEACE*, will Happen in EVERY CENTURY, that This World Exists.
At different Times, It is different peoples, with different *IDEAS* (Different "Opposing" ideas)
That CAUSE WAR....!!!!
Therefore, People,
I present, for YOUR Inspection,
our NEXT WAR....
There WILL BE a WAR,
Concerning *Belief*
And, even IF, YOU.....YOU do NOT "Want-to-Fight"
please KNOW....that Those People, with a"Different" *Belief*
WILL SAY to you,
"....WE are SUPREME...."
"....OUR *Belief*, is The TRUE *Belief*...."
"....YOU MUST Change to OUR *Belief*....",
"....OR DIE as an Unbeliever....",
"....DIE as a "Lesser" than WE...."
"....Lesser than WE True *Believers*...."
<><><><>
WE have a Choice:
1) We, and our Children, Accept THEIR *belief*
2) We, and Our Children, Keep OUR *belief*
Unfortunately, either Choice, will NOT Prevent War in THIS World;
The REAL QUESTION, IS;
"HOW do you WANT, You and Your Children (and Their Children), to LIVE.... ?!"
then,
You MAY HAVE TO FIGHT....!!!!
Time to go has come and gone....now get the hell out!
This was the 4th tour of duty for this soldier..first time in afganistan..at what point do soldiers just snap??Get the hell outta the middle east and let them slaughter each other.
Just another WAR BUSH shouldn't have gotten us into...Typical war mongor republican...
Yea yea yea ....
Bush did it ....
This occurred on whose watch .... ??
No Bush started it, Romney is to blame now.
bigben And if Bush had done it right we wouldn't still be there. Instead he burnt 4000 military lives on a lied for war in Iraq where we shouldn't have been at all and neglected Afghanistan where we did have a legitimate right to beyotch slap the Taliban and kill Bin Laden. But he screwed that up to. We should have gone into Afghanistan with -all- our military smacked them, killed Bin Laden when we had the chance bury him in Tora Bora and got the frig out. If Boy George had done his frigging job we wouldn't be talking about this crap at all and the repubs would have to find something else to frigging whine about.
Well JC2.2 .... we could go around and around for days about this mess ....
From when Clinton did nothing from the first Trade Center bombings ....
JC,
So, tell me, putz. How come we haven't heard from Cindy Sheehan in 3 1/2 years?
Yeah this crapfest we're nosedeep in is all Obamas' fault. Here's a stat for you but don't take my frigging word for it. From 1968 to 2008 there were 2 democrats in the White House for a total of 12 years. All the rest were repubs. From 1996 to 2006 both branches of congress were controlled by repubs. Yet repubs can't do anything but whine about Obama, who was handed a frigging filled up craphole by Boy George. Anyone with the ability to count to 2 and the sense to be able to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel knows a line of BS when they hear it and they know who holds, by frigging far, the major blame for this bullshjt. It's ain't Obama and it ain't dems.
US is in 5 wars now.
US is dropping more bombs in the Middle East now then Bush dropped in 8 years.
5 Years in this war, we lost less then 500 GIs, now since Obama, we have over 15000 dead GIs.
Where are all the Bush prosting commies now?
Obama is a con man and needs to be voted out of Office.
"5 Year less then 500 GIs died in this war, since Obama we have over 15000 dead GIs."
That's an interesting statistic. And by "interesting" I mean "completely made up."
JC,
Hey putz. Democrats controlled BOTH houses of Congress from 2006 to 2010.
Now, who handed what to Obama?
Yeah they did so you're saying that the 4 years the dems held both houses they should have been able to undo and fix all the bullshjt that a decade of repubs had cooked up. Thanks for the frigging compliment that dems are over twice as smart so should be able to undo and fix shjt over twice as fast. And by the frigging way learn how to frigging count. Obama went into office in 2008 so the dems only controlled the congress for 2 years before he got handed a shjtpail. Or do you mean that dems are over 4 times as smart as repubs and should have had 10 years of repub crap all cleared up? lol
JC,
They sure "fixed" health care in two months, putz!!
So, if dems are twice as smart, how come they haven't "fixed" EVERYTHING?
P.S. Depends on what the definition of "fixed" is.
Hey, Bernie, is your last name Madoff? lol
JC,
Wow!!!!! Now that was clever!
Is everyone "Happy" over here ....??
You can beyotch and whine and try to divert to your hearts content. The facts remain the same. 1968 to 2008 2 dems in the White House for 12 years. 1996 to 2006 both branches of congress controlled by repubs. Obama handed 2 wars and an economy in critical and on life support initiated by Boy George. You can say it was the man in the moon's fault and it'll not mean jackspit. People with any intelligence can read and think and they know who holds the major share of the blame. It dam sure isn't Obama and it dam sure isn't dems. lol
JC,
OK, let's go way back..... From 1948 to 1988 (forty years), both houses of Congress were controlled by democrats! Now, let's really talk about phucking things up!
Yeah, blacks got to vote without paying for it, intergration, equal rights, disability equality, women were allowed to actually go into a booth and vote without a guy being there to -help- them make the right decision, OSHA. Gee what terrible and tragic things. Repubs fought tooth and nail the GI bill. Still from 1948 to 1988 the White House was in better shape. Dems were in a whole 16 years instead of 12. All the rest were repubs. Divert all you want. This crapfest that Obama's dealing with lays by far at the feet of your idols, the repubs
Dice it, slice it, spice it, or rationalize it. it's still cut and run to me,
As Ronnie liked to rationalize about Vietnam, it was a noble effort, That will be Afghanistan/Iraq's final epithet. And PLEASE have the good grace not to bring up our vile defeats anymore during a cocktail party. It's bad enough having a neighbor with a POW/ MIA bumper sticker on his car who goes on and on about how he's seen ****, man!
Like , we LOST man! Again!
Obama is Satans Filth. If there is really such a thing as the AntiChrist. It's Obama and his followers. That piece of garbage tried to pass himself off as a Christian and couldnt even get that right.
Barry is SATAN!
Here you go, nazi. This ought to make you feel all warm and tingly seeing as how you numblies espouse it. lol
"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests.
It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality.
Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.
We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press -- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years."
-- Adolf Hitler
Big Bad Black Bogey Man has Brian by the toe and just won't let go. Tough luck, man!
@7SUMMITS ; '' M O R O N I '' IS THE ANGEL IN QUESTION !!!!!!!!! ; how dare you belittle and degrade your COMMANDER IN CHIEF !!!!!!!!
You cannot change the people in Afghanistan. They have lived by these traditions for centuries, a few years of the US being there, wont change them. Things will revert back to the way they were, the minute the US leaves.
Save your money, time, and many lives, and get out. There is nothing to accomplish there.
Security needs to be done covertly, watch and listen, and then use special forces or surgical attacks to deal with terrorists or whatever. Use sanctions and so on against States that harbor bad guys. Occupying countries is not how to win this.
Time for a little prayer all the way around. Violence begets more violence, as it has for centuries. Looks like we'll never learn. But we gotta try. Got nothin' to lose..
Dick Atlas Complex Cheney and Rummy the Dummy thought Iraq was gonna be JUST like Panama, a pushover
it seems like this could have been revenge for the afghans killing our soldiers over thier religious freedom to burn holy books
dman, Everyone now sees that are loyal to Afghanistan!
CINDY SHEEHAN.......Where are you?
Still living in a tent in Crawford?
Our troops were nothing more than lower class cannon fodder. How many YALE graduates died needlessly over there, huh?? And no whining allowed because they knew the risk for a free ride from Uncle Sam says Rush. He says please send a thank you note to him for your artificial leg since he is paying for it
Did everybody see Barry's picture in this article? He made a call to Karzai to say sorry from his car on his way to play golf. I hope it didn't interfere with his game. Go Barry!
Yea , he did much better ....
He made a hole in 8 ....
Leave! We don't need to waste any more time, money or precious American lives on those people. Let them go back to their primitive stupid religious lives, leave them alone until they nurture another creep that wants to attack the U.S. Then whack them down again, and get out.
Latest Rasmussen poll shows Romney up by 4 over Obama and Santorum up by 1.
Does it get any better than that!!!
Looking good bernie ....
Check your home page some time ....
big,
I'm new to this computer stuff and way over 65. What's this "homepage" stuff?
Click on your name here and you will see ....
You may be new , but you're doing great ....
There is no success story in Afganistan, turn the mass child murderer over to the relatives of those murdered and bring our troops home before anymore are killed for nothing. Bin Laden is dead, mission is accomplished !!
I bet both Bush and Rumsfeld use illegal labor on their "ranches". Gonzales is the foreman on one crew, Kenneth Lay the other!
I would bet Barry has slaves, but has his back room buddies hide the facts.
Another unwanted propaganda point for the US! For those who wonder WHY we are invading their countries, nation building as we call it, this is a perfect example of why they hate us and use actions like this, against the US being in their countries to recruit more "terrorist" as we call them!
America, now controlled by our own Military Industrial Complex, a nation built on creating wars and killing people.
At what time has any Muslim country ever been at peace? The very nature of their beliefs are steeped in evil. Their strongest message from their "religion" is to "KILL INFIDELS", meaning anyone who isn't Muslim, with a particular hatred towards Christians and Jews. In Christianity, (those whom are true) know we simply pray for those who don't believe. When the Muslims cant kill "infidels" they are killing each other. it is a society based on violence, even killing their own children or wives in the name of "HONOR". When has it ever been honorable to kill women and children? Certainly not in our Christian society (yes Obama we ARE a Christian nation, though not everyone is Christian) These people are despicable. Leave them to themselves.
Oh, yes, you are quite a Christian George. Did you perhaps miss the part of the Gospels where Christ tells us to, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you?" Did you think that loving them meant calling them "despicable?"
By the way, in answer to your question: the Christian Conquistadores thought it was more than honorable to kill women and children. There are many, many examples in history where Christians have taken that view. You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
Believe like I tell you or I will kill you! (or you will burn in hell for eternity)