What's wrong with what MeanestOne said? This guy went on a murder spree and killed innocent children. If it happened in the United States, folks would be calling for his immediate execution regardless of what the Constitution says. He's a murderer! He murdered Afghanis in Afghanistan. Let their system of justice deal with him. Why waste our taxpayer money protecting him from his reprehensible crime?

Turn him over and bring the rest of our troops home now. Obama killed Osama. The war there should be over.

lynsey and meanest one

You are missing the point... He is entitled to a fair trial before we hang him. It's been a while though, April 13, 1961 since they used the rope.

Of course in this day and age with all the PC and psycho babble as has been pointed out they will argue we don't have the proper rope.

Nine children and three women were among the 16 slain.

How does one justify such senseless killing? Right is right; wrong is wrong; and this definetely falls into the wrong category.

but we're Americans, and we should commit to taking care of our brave military brothers and sisters... especially when they need us most

I don't know about you but I don't consider someone who murders 16 people in their sleep (9 children, 3 women included) brave. I consider them what they are, a coward. I don't care how many tours they were in. If an Afghani commit an act of similar nature here in the U.S. would we turn them back to the Afghani people to render justice.... I think not.

This monster deserves whatever he has coming to him and truely deserves much worse. In addition, I don't want one red cent of my hard-earned tax payer money going to this A-hole.

Give him to the Afghani's and let them determine how best to attain justice.

Hotticket--

More lives destroyed over pointless wars for profit. A soldier and his family's.

No mention of the dead victims, just the Americans.

That said it all.

This is simply exploitation of poor soldiers and their loyalty to the US.

Before this soldier justifies any of the actions, those politicians and generals who sent forces to Iraq and Afghanistan should justify why the US forces were sent in the first place!

Did they know what they were doing or just dancing as Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists directed?

Can anyone justify the US forces intervening and saving that Kuwaiti ruler with 65 wives at one time with 1991 Iraqi war and fixing that beastly ruler's golden toilet first?

Let them also justify stationing of US forces to save that seventh century Sunni Saudi beastly ruler with his 5000 princes and princesses without Bibles.

This guy went on a murder spree and killed innocent children. If it happened in the United States, folks would be calling for his immediate execution regardless of what the Constitution says. He's a murderer! He murdered Afghanis in Afghanistan. Let their system of justice deal with him. Why waste our taxpayer money protecting him from his reprehensible crime?

A-FREAKIN-MEN lynseypug. His actions just put more innocent people in danger of losing lives when his dumbass actions were preventable. He committed a crime in their country let them deal with him.

For those of you who say hang him, turn him over to the Afghan people and let them kill him, or shoot him, let me offer my opinion: Let the UCMJ handle this. This horrible event by this soldier has so much news coverage and has stirred-up so much more anger among afghans that the military will be hard pressed to even consider leniency towards this staff Sargent.

Granted, he may be suffering with PTSD, but his direct line of command should have noticed this behavior and taken action to get him removed from his duties.

You know the UCMJ will handle this and all the blustering us bloggers do won't chage that.

I say hand him over with his commander in cheif. In Okinawa if you commited a crime you were handed over to the locals and discharged I think in this case we should discharge him and hand him over. that will stop the repeats.

We burn a Quran, they kill a few of our guys. Some Id!ot kills 16 of their civilians......Sh!t, I don't even want to think of it.

Suicides, breakdowns and a population at home that's sick of war. I am not making excuses for this guy but how would you like to be shipped off to Afghanistan after three tours in Iraq(keep in mind he has a wife and two kids). That's lunacy in my book. If he did it he's guilty and should be punished but what are we putting these men through? Is it worth it?

@Meanest one,

If an Afghani commit an act of similar nature here in the U.S. would we turn them back to the Afghani people to render justice.... I think not.

I just don't feel this reverse psychology holds water... On one hand, you're right, we wouldn't turn them back over if an Afghani did that here... but on the other hand, this guy's not in some foreign land on his own just cause he wants to be there to cause trouble. This is a member of our military, in a combat area, that snapped and went off the reservation. This should be handled by OUR military justice system... otherwise, what kind of message are we sending to those brothers and sisters of ours who ARE bravely serving? I'm not advocating that we let this horrible act slide in any way, shape, or form... but we don't just abandon him to their idea of justice. I feel that's unamerican.

hmmmm....staged to get us kicked out Saigon style?

Schoolyard; "We burn a Quran, they kill a few of our guys. Some Id!ot kills 16 of their civilians......Sh!t, I don't even want to think of it."

A sad day for the reputation of America but I will be surprised if there is anywhere near the reaction amongst Afghanis over this. When have they ever shown that they care about their women and children? But a book, Now that's a different story. They definitely seem to place more value on a copy of the Koran than they do a human life. Just an observation.

What was an almost unattainable situation until our withdrawal has just gotten much worse. I don't see how we will be able to maintain a working relationship with the Afghan people and government. Our ability to continue to work with them in preparing the Afghan people to maintain their own defense is almost impossible now. Talk about giving the Taliban a huge victory............think about it the Taliban now looks like the good guys compared to us to the Afghan people.

We're not gonna hand him to the Afghans - in a a just world we would, but we don't have a SOFA deal that allows for that. Not to mention that the Afghan justice system is a cockamamie mess: wasn't that long ago they sentenced a rape victim to marry her rapist.

But having said that, of course this guy's a POS, and I hope he gets the death penalty. But it's not a just world so he probably won't.

Killing kids in their sleep then setting them on fire - it takes another POS to even try to justify that or explain it away. If he'd done it to 9 sleeping white kids next to his base in the US many of the same writers getting all mushy about his suffering and "PTSD" would be throwing a shyte-fit about why he hadn't been lynched already.

"If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."

"moral transgression", "arming lunatics", "who turn their weapons against the defenseless", "without giving it a second thought" Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

While I do not condone this situation, if it is true, it would seem they have taught us well. There's more to this story than meets the eye, we should not be too hasty about a judgement call until all the facts are in.

Regardless ten years is long enough, it's time for our President to make good on a long over-due promise and get us out of that neck of the woods unless there is an element of national security at stake. If one of our young soldiers did in fact "snap" the give him the attention and treatment he needs, sadly the deaths of the Afghans are just the price of doing business in the dirty game of war!

I don't give a rat's ass if he has a family, he killed innocent people for nothing. He should be turned over to the Afghans for their justice. I don' tcare if he is a US citizen, he killed folks over there and don't believe he will get punishment for what he has done.

PTSD affects soldiers in war, children in physically and emotionally abusive families, and anyone who experiences any trauma. More and more brain research has been enabled with better diagnostic tools and PTSD is now better understood - except by those who do not want to admit that mental health is affected by adverse circumstances or who themselves could use some treatment.

Upon their return, NO WWII vets were screened for PTSD and their families suffered - the families of "the greatest generation" also paid for WWII. There are Nam vets who died in our streets upon their return b/c they were not properly cared for - not even the ones who suffered from the effects of Monsanto's Agent Orange were properly cared for...only the ones with certain conditions like diabetes have yet to receive treatment. Many have died without proper care.

It is time to end The Bush Family's Oil Wars and bring our troops home no matter what the political and military hawks want. When our troops get home, they need to be cared for with no question! They laid their lives on the line for us and it is our responsibility to properly care for them upon their return!

Whoever deemed that this soldier should return to active duty is/are the one/s who needs to be prosecuted!

Reinstate the draft! Let Congresspersons' sons and daughters be the 1st to be called up WITH NO DEFERMENTS like Dick Cheney or EASY-DUTY LOOPHOLES like GWBush and others had. Selfish, ignorant, greedy wars should be fought by those who want them!

This discussion just saddens me beyond belief, what ever happened to innocent until prov en guilty! We don't know all the facts yet and until we do I with hold all judgment, so many so called upstanding people are calling for violence against a man whom they know nothing about and over something they REALLY know nothing about and we will most likely never hear the REAL story!!!

Meanest 1, first U say he is a POS and we should turn him over the Afghanis, you also mock PTSD and ADD, But in the next breath you call him a sick jerk!! SO which is it???? can't have it both ways!!!!!! just sayin.

Are people completely confused or just blinded by others thinking for them? one person does not define the whole. Anyone who thinks the Taliban represents all or Muslim practice is just as big of a fool as those who think this murderer represents the entire armed forces.

How sad for everyone. After 2 tours in Iraq and another in Afghanistan, why is it a surprise that these soldiers snap? I'm not saying it was right, but the longer we continually send our soldiers into combat, those who return to a war zone time and time again are going to have mental health issues and incidents like these are going to increase in frequency. It's time to either end the war or reinstate the draft so that our military machine has fresh new faces to throw into the fray.

Hotticket--

More lives destroyed over pointless wars for profit. A soldier and his family's.

No mention of the dead victims, just the Americans.

That said it all.

And yet, after all this time; NO MENTION WHATSOEVER from YOU about what this service member could have possibly been through and now what his family has to endure from NOW ON. Get off your high horse.

Tell you what- we'll ship you over to the pressure cooker known as Kandahar Province where you have to NOT ONLY train known enemies of yours but have to endure the stress of getting shot at 24/7, all the while being NOT allowed to shoot back, and we'll see how well your dainty mind holds up before you snap. Do we have a deal?

How many of you who are ready to turn this Soldier over to the Afghani's have ever served in a war? To condemn him out of hand is showing your ignorance. If you have not walked in his shoes, you have no idea what he's gone thru and how it's affected him. While I can't condone his actions, I will not judge him. I have a son and son-in-law in this same brigade, so I do have a small idea of what war does to a person. Just maybe if the military would quit giving lip service to helping these soldiers and actually do it without making the Soldiers feel like they've failed, tragedies like this would not happen.

My prayers for the victims and their families, this soldier and his family and for all of our Military.

Tony: You are right on the money with your comments. In post 1.24 a lot of assumptions are made and the writer clearly points out that he "doesn't give a rats behind" or "doesn't care" except where his opinion is concerned. That bird must have a crystal ball as he seems to have all the "facts". Like you I would lean toward giving the soldier in question the benefit of doubt. Also I would not turn him over to the likes of the ranting savages who only seek to torture and kill him, he is our soldier not theirs, these are not reasonable people and the kind that kill inocent bystanders for something a silly as burning a book. How interesting to see their reaction when the worm turns!

Again I do not condone the killing of innocent people but it would be interesting to put all those so quick to judge this soldier and his alleged actions in his place and see how they would hold up in this hell-on-earth; most would not make it through the first day without filling their drawers! This is not a Hollywood movie with make-up, a script, and wine and roses at the end of the day; it's real life, real people in situations that no amount of training and preparation can prepare one for.

Pay no attention to the feeble-minded comments from those whose biggest challenge of the day is deciding what channel they're going to watch or what the topping will be on the pizza someone made for them and delivered............they do not have clue about the aspects of real war or real life! WAR IS HELL!!!

I'm sorry, what this guy has gone through doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to face justice. Just like a murderer who grew up in a poor neighborhood, or a shooter who kills people at a school, or a mentally disturbed person who gets their hands on a gun, or a person who would have killed because a Koran got burned.

Its not about lacking compassion. Its about that any society deals with this stuff, and frankly, the only bit of luck that he has is that we, in the name of believing we have a better justice system, have taken him into our custody. Whether you agree with that or not, we will pay the price for that.

And, lets not forget our bigotry when it comes to murder in another country. Last military murder I remember was in Iraq and I think the soldier got 3-4 years in jail. Really? Is it because murdering someone who isn't a US citizen isn't as important? Well, yes, obviously, to Americans. Or we can go with the happy happy line that really he wasn't murdering someone but just protecting himself. I think you'd have to be really naive to believe that, but go right ahead if you do.

Tragic. I won't call it anything other than that. Avoidable, too. But I'm not going to do anything other than go by what I hear right now until he does face a court, and well, he better be as pretty as Casey Anthony if he went baby killing and wants to get away with it.

Never underestimate the American public desire to replace justice with a little story. He might just get lucky and become a hero for murdering babies.

meanest one, the disorder ptsd is seriously affecting our troops. i have two ex military friends that are affected evryday. also one of two is affected in a way that his body is literally rotting inside out. the funny thing is when they joined right after 9/11 they believed in it, now they say it was a mistake to join. i myself went to bootcamp to join and once i got there i realized i was there for the money and not what i belived in. so i acted crazy to get out. now dont take it wrong i believe in the people sacrificing the lifes daily but i do not belive in the cause to be there. my point is there are people that are affected by these disorders however where you are coming from is people blow it outta purportion. that is just a hypocondriact.

What's the point of turning him over. They don't believe he did it himself anyway. So they'll tear him from limb to limb and say the US is holding back the others. They'll still hate us and they'll still kill us every chance they get! Throw him in prison and get the hell out of there.

More lives destroyed over pointless wars for profit. A soldier and his family's.

LOL

Meanestone you are really ignorant if you really believe that PTSD and ADD/ADHD don't exist. It isn't an excuse for everything but mental illness seriously effects some peoples ability to rationalize a situation. Do your research before you minimize something like that. I am not speaking about the soldier in this story, I am just speaking for the disorders in general. Also, those two types of disorders are completely different, one is a learning disability and the other is a serious mental health disorder.

im gonna call it right here and now:

this dude was drunk as a skunk, boozing it up with the navy seals - who were likely tearing him a new one about how "inferior" he was to them because ya know, they are navy seals - the best of the best - and this guy is just some lame turd soldier..

he likely went to "show them" just how inferior he was...and went navy seal raiding

the only part that puzzles me...the burning.

im with the afghani's...this doesnt strike me as a lone wolf job.

All said and done, he is still one of our country's military. We should handle this ourselves.

Meanestone: I'm curious, have you ever served your country in the military?

drovel:

My point exactly! People are comparing day to day circumstances in a normal day in the USA or some other to developed nation to the situation in Afghanistan. Yes, the Afghans love their families just like we do, they like a good meal and a place to rest their heads, however, to assume that the standards we expect in a normal living here compared to those in a war ravaged country are tow totally different things and while murder in any form is wrong we can not possibly imagine what it is like unless we've been there and lived in the environment that spawns war-like behavior.

War is not a pretty thing and although man has tried to apply certain "rules of engagement" the fact remains there are some places where people react differently than in others, and some places where rules do not apply....." All is fair in love and war" a quote from 1587 relates to the trauma of war, was the statement correct, perhaps, perhaps not, not but reasonable to expect unless one lives under a rock and has never had contact with another human being. The point is the best of men are men at best, get used to it, it's nothing new, it's just that now it's in our face courtesy of radio, tv, and the internet. For some this has been the way of life for centuries, be thankful it's not that way here.....at least most of the time.

I will again point out I do not condone the killing of the innocent......, but this is war, and sadly we will see this kind of thing from time to time. Does it make things right, of course not but it goes with the territory!

Makes you wonder how many of these poor souls will snap after they come home?

He should not be turned over to Afghans. The military has a justice system. He should be courts martialed. The military can be executed for crimes they commit. That was banned in 1961 and reinstated by President Reagan in 1984 by executive order. From 1942 until the 1961 ban the US military executed 160 personnel. G. W. Bush approved a death sentence for a soldier who murdered and raped then chickened out for political reasons. That guy is currently in Federal Prison in Terre Haute Indiana awaiting execution. Private Ed Slovak couldn't take the pressure either and they executed him. All he did was desert. He should be tried by the US military as turning him over to the Afghans sets a dangerous precedence. He should get a fair trial and if found guilty suffer the consequences of his actions. My dad's company in WW2 suffered 62% casualities in the Normandy Invasion. Out of 136 men only 56 were alive and able to board the landing craft that took them back to England to get replacements and re-equip. This happen in only 30 days time. This guy did not see action anywhere near that so I don't by that PTSD cr@p.

NC open heart

hmmmm....staged to get us kicked out Saigon style?

We were kicked out of Saigon because the North Vietnamese were in the process of capturing the city.

meanest one and all the other bashers, if you haven't been there then don't talk for you have no clue as to the affect war has on us soldiers. War is a horrible thing and we all have a breaking point, his just came at a horrible time. This will be handle this in a proper manner via the UCMJ.

I swear, people claiming PTSD is like the new ADD/ADHD. A card people throw when they want to make excuses and not take responsibility for their behavior. I say PTSD, ADD/ADHA are like using the "twinkie defense."

You don't have a fricken clue what you are talking about. PTSD most certainly does exist, and fools who know nothing about it should stfu.

Anyone remember Calley? He 'supposedly' killed a whole town! They made him the scaptegoat anyway.

lib50 - why are so many unwilling to accept PTSD as a valid illness that requires treatment? Ignorance! This article is inflammatory for this soldier's family, his wife and two children.

Please cut the family some slack as they will be treated like pariah's because of his horrible misdeed and taking so many innocent lives. So much for "shock and awe!"

I sincerely wish the 'mouths' would add this family in their prayers; these very people who have sent our men and women, our youth to fight in these horrendous battles. So many with multiple deployments; noting that he was on his 4th tour, after serving 3 in Iraq.

that guy that doesnt accept PTSD,i,m a Vietnam vet.Come over to my place,i,ll show you what PTSDis

I'm so sick of people who don't know jack about war sitting in their armchair making stupid statements about what our soldiers go through. I know some come back and use the PTSD diagnosis when they shouldn't, but there are SO many who do have it and it screws it up for them. It most certainly is a huge problems for our troops who have been in combat, and the effects will go for decades. That is why you don't start a war unless there is no other choice. This whole incident in Afghanistan makes me sick to my stomach, I hope we don't lose anybody because of it.

@meanest one-After 5 Combat Tours, I can attest that PTSD is real. It is not the "newest catch phrase". While everyone associates "mental disturbances" to PTSD, there are plenty of physical symptoms/problems as well. The inability to sleep, memory loss and hands that shake uncontrollably are just a few. But feel free to generalize about things that you know nothing about.

This soldier is accused of committing a horrendous act, no doubt. He deserves to be punished to the fullkest extent of the law if found guilty. This is an all vollunteer force, nobody was drafted. It is up to the US government to step up and give these soldiers the help they need.

As far as the Taliban calling us savages: ( "In a statement Monday, the Afghan Taliban pledged to "take revenge" against the "sick-minded American savages," according to the AFP news agency.") Wow! Are you kidding me. Pot meet kettle.

Devil's son-Your dad is a true hero. However, he would even agree that combat on any level is still combat. Your dad's Company may have suffered horrendous losses in 1 battle, this soldier could have spent 3+ years on patrol in a city. Imagine stepping outside your house, walking to work, knowing you could be sniped. Now imagine that every window, door, car, etc could be a danger. Every day for 3+ years. War is hell, no matter where you are.

They all but gave his name and address to the world, his family will now be targets for Muslim radicals revenge, no one just snaps like this, we will find there were many signs pointing to a mental breakdown, that went un-reported by those in charge; we have been at war for 10 years, using our National guard to it's fullest, it is time to pack our bags and get the hell out of dodge.

I do not condoned what this soldier did, but why is it so different than the Taliban killing American's. As said by other, pot calling the kettle black.

Here's a scenerio...soldier is walking down the street, perhaps alone, perhaps not. Someone shoots at them, not realizing they are American Soldiers (remember, it's dark out), American soldier(s) find the origin of the shot and go in shooting (again, dark outside), not knowing it is a family house and not a Taliban hideout. Just a thought, that's all.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai called it an "assassination" and furiously demanded an explanation from Washington

JERK!

How about the American victims? Don't count in your stupid mind, eh? Let's get out of that @!$%#-hole Afghanistan - NOW

Why is it OK for the Taliban to set up road side bombs to kill inocent people? But when the shoe is on the other foot, they are not very pleased...

The link tells you the background of the International Court and it's relationship to Afghanistan.

http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members

For those of you who say hang him, turn him over to the Afghan people and let them kill him, or shoot him, let me offer my opinion: Let the UCMJ handle this. This horrible event by this soldier has so much news coverage and has stirred-up so much more anger among afghans that the military will be hard pressed to even consider leniency towards this staff Sargent.

Granted, he may be suffering with PTSD, but his direct line of command should have noticed this behavior and taken action to get him removed from his duties.

You all know the UCMJ will handle this and all the blustering us bloggers do won't change that fact.

See my link above.

your comments are so free flowing like any of you have any idea what this guy has gone thru.

you have called in the jury and made your decision

you embarrass America

there isn't enough four letter words to say what I think of you people

bunch of pussies that would hide under thier momma's skirt

you make me sic

F off all you posters

I would invite the people howling for this soldiers blood to read up a little on Charles Whitman, the ex-Marine who killed 16 people and wounded 32 others, many of them while he shot from the Clock Tower on the University of Texas campus. While it's too simplistic to blame all of his actions on his brain tumor, in his own writings from the day before the massacre he admits to having no idea why he had the overwhelming compulsion to do what he was planning.

This soldier was on his 4th tour of duty in combat areas. He had a traumatic head injury. His actions and behavior suggest a complete break with reality. We have no idea of his personal history prior to this event but there's nothing to suggest that he was anything but a model soldier. To simply throw him to the wolves or even deny that there may be mitigating circumstances is nothing more than vigilante justice.

I am in no way suggesting that his actions are forgivable or that he should not be held accountable. Any evidence that might temper his punishment must be clear and compelling. However horrible his crime we owe it to him and to ourselves to find out his side of the story before we pronounce sentence.

@Banashcar; you DONT BLAME HIM??? He brutally murdered women & children in their sleep & you dont blame him???

Oh but you know, they are brown, speak a different language & different clothes from you so they are not real people, I guess

Finally the onliest one so far on this blog of idiots that has got it right, a soldier pushed way to far because of Washington politics, politicians, the war machine and big business that loves it.

Send those @!$%#s over their to stand trial, we should not have been there to start with!!

Before taking any action, experts should examine why such a senior soldier was driven to this action.

There must be grave provocations!

"Afghan Taliban pledged to "take revenge" against the "sick-minded American savages," according to the AFP news agency."

Look at this statement. It will make anyone boil!

The man obviously snapped. No one should be allowed to serve more than one tour of duty. What some of the horrible things these soldiers must see on a day to day basis would send most of us screaming. It's easy to write a post and call this man everything in the book without knowing the full story. It's OK for the enemy to strap explosives on to his or her body and blow up innocent men, women and children. They do it for their on sick ad-gender and reasoning. I wish to God this sort of thing had not happened but part of the blame must be put on the leaders that squeeze out a soldiers spirit and soul and continue sending him home and bringing him back for more and more, Over and over again.

Banachar;...Yours is the first post that shows any sense...3-6 tours is not unheard of.....at the end of each tour you say to yourself;'..well,I survived another one'...but then you wonder about the next one....I did 3....At first they told us we couldn't be deployed more than once every 3 years...that didn't last long....You see your friends become medical science-projects due to IED's...it wears on you....By the way,'Meanest a.hole;..ever notice nobody say anything when muslims blow up muslims on a daily basis....(women,children included)...They kill 20-30 of each other at a wedding or funeral,and it's a normal way of life ....Let us fight with BOTH hands,or bring em all home...at this point,we're only helping one tribe kill another tribe,..they're using;'the enemy of my enemy is my 'friend',on us.....and our idiot politicians buy into it...at least we have the agologizer-in-chief to take time away from his busy schedule of 4 years of campaigning to apologize again.........................Repubs are no better......the idiot,mcain wants us to go to war with everybody.....the rest of the saber-rattlers of BOTH partys....have never worn a uniform,or fired a shot in anger..............send them................U.S.Army Disabled Veteran

justwonderin- Thank you for your service and sacrifice!

While I do not condone this act, I do feel the soldier's superior officers, right up to the commander in chief, are the ones responsible. They knew all too well the stress placed on these soldiers and yet chose to deploy them over and over again. Then, when a soldier commits suicide or an act like this, they say "rogue". They take NO responsibility. Why did we not hear from the so called laders when our people were being beheaded in Iraq? I say bring all our soldiers home and let those people fight it out themselves. For all the believers out there, Jesus walked that area and could NOT stop the fighting. What makes the U.S. politicians think they can stop it? Let them kill each other as they have been doing long before we got there and then make a big parking lot or another Disney.

My prayers go out to the families of the victims but more so for the family of our victim, the soldier.

I'm a Vietnam veteran and I remember the one thing on held onto from the very first day in Vietnam was the fact that I had to survive 365 days. I can only imagine doing a tour of duty and then having to go back. It has to take a toll on you mental senses.

Some of you say its ok for what this soldier has done because the "enemies" do that as well. First, the innocent ppl of Afghanistan are not enemies, otherwise why are we protecting them? Why are they looking for our help? Second because of what this soldier did, he will jepordize more US soldiers lives abroad, not only in Afghanistan, but anywhere else. Yes I agree that the US politics play a huge role in playing war puppeteers, but still does not justify killing innocent women n children. We are not like the enemies who kill the innocent to prove a statement.

If you think what he did was justified then im sorry, you are no different than any terrorist group out there thinking the same way. Killing the innocent does not deter terrorists, just gives them more reasons to grow in strength.

If anyone seriously believes we still have a legitimate reason to be there or that anything positive can possibly result from our continued presence please be so kind as to explain it to me, because I honestly can't see it. Anyone? Anyone?

US invaded Iraq on the pretense of WMD. US invaded Afghan claiming the Taliban harbored Osama Laden. UN inspectors found no WMD in Iraq. Osama Laden was living in Pakistan.

Using lies and deception played on the American people, the Federal government has slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people around the world: Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan. And despite the obvious facts, the American people continue to participate and support the government's mass extermination of innocent women, men and children.

If Americans wonder how the Third Reich managed to slaughter millions, they need to look no further than at home. The Third Reich and the US Government share common values: they both claim to have the superior political and economic system; both nations claim cultural and moral superiority to others; both have devoted enormous financial resources to arm productionand research; and both nations have unilaterally waged wars against weaker ones under the pretense of securing national security and peace.

Bring our people home.........I can not judge this soldier-my husband is a Vietnam Vet & has p.t.s.s. (plus other things) and I can NOT imagine what our soldiers go through........AND FOR WHAT???????????

This is both part of a larger problem with our overstressed military, and an individual action demanding personal responsibility. If that means hanging, sorry but this was a monstrous act, and if a foreigner had done that here we would not stand for excuse-making ...

Very typical,of all our reactions when our soldiers commit crimes.We blame the victims,not the soldier. Believe it or not,there are some bad guys on our side too.The Afghans don't have a monopoly on killers.

Right there with you, Banaschar, but on another note, what brain surgeon decided to broadcast this GI's hometown? He just gave every Taliban would-be nutjob a target, a civilian target, and I would not be surprised if some bad things develop from this stupidity. Nobody needed, or needs to know where he came from, only that he is being treated like any other criminal would be, with due process.

The lunacy that is our presence in Afghanistan needs to end. Tomorrow would not be too soon. More will die before we leave, on both sides, and that makes no sense at all. It is not in the cause of freedom, nor the cause of justice, nor the cause of terror prevention. It is the cause of political maneuvering and leverage, and you can stick that where the sun don't shine.

"If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."

So, a psychopath who kills or orders the killing of anything and everything within a 50 meter distance of American troops is calling those same troops lunatics! Wow, what is wrong with this picture?

The President needs to explain what must be done next. I think he should convey to the head fanatic that they have a new mission for the troops. They will need to capture Mullah Omar; shove 1/4 pound of C4 up his @$$ and make him sing "America the Beautiful" without any mistakes if he wants to keep smoking opium. After completing this mission, Hamit Karzai should be given the same chance to sing "America the Beautiful" too! After all, we do believe in freedom of choice, and I cannot see why we would refuse him the opportunity to show his loyalty. Well, it's not like it's going to kill him to attempt it! Okay, it was wishful thinking on my part. :)

On a more serious note, three tours in Iraq? This is what you get when you reduce combat troop strength within the military. But the genius' in Congress and U.S. military swear up and down that a lean mean fighting machine is much better. It's supposed to be light and mobile for quick strikes. It's supposed to be more effective than a large expensive combat size military that is not needed. But if you are some fat-ass general who goes along with the program so he can get a nice retirement check when it's his time to be put out to pasture, you don't question this type of stupid f-ing logic. I mean, who needs a huge military, right? It's not like we are going to fight two wars at the same time, right? It's not like we're ordering soldiers to do two, three and four combat tours right?

The Army is investigating whether doctors at Lewis-McChord's Madigan Army Medical Center were urged to consider the cost of providing benefits when reviewing diagnoses of post-traumatic stress disorder.

And it's not like they are trying to avoid their obligation to take care of the sick and wounded, right? So let's see, Joey comes home missing a leg or arm; Billy comes home missing both legs; Mikey comes home without his face; And let's not forget Tommy, who had part of his brain removed since it wasn't functioning. But there is hope. Sarah made it back without her sight and one good hand.

I say this with a lot of sarcasm but the shocking truth is, it's real. They kept the faith with our people and our nation; now they are being betrayed by their own government to save money. Remember, these same political pigs want you to accept Obama Care, while they get the Gold Medical Plan for life! If this does not make you cringe then nothing will.

The people there kill "innocent" women and children daily. They use them as shields to protect the cowardly men and then scream revenge or "day of rage". All they want is to fight and kill others. It is way past time to let these sink hole countries rot. They will never change. They will continue to kill each other daily and any time we offer help, they will kill our best and brightest. We have no business to be there. We cannot reason with a mentality that is stuck so far in the past. We should be taking care of our own and the hell with them.

This guy snapped. I don't blame him but the cowards in Washington who have tied our military's hands behind their backs.

Are. You. F-ing. Kidding. Me? This man murdered women and children while they slept in their homes. But you want to discuss his psychiatric history and how many tours he's done as though this is expected? He committed a heinous and clearly irrational act.

I didn't hear anyone discussing the psychiatric history of the people who committed the heinous and irrational act of flying planes into buildings. Why? Because at some point it doesn't matter. This is one of those times, that it doesn't matter. Signing up at a recruiting station doesn't absolve you from all future acts.

In the past anytime an offender brings up his history of severe abuse as a child (even if it's legitimate and relevant) he is scoffed at. So why all of the apologetics because this sick f@ck is a veteran? I don't care if he's married with two kids. I don't care what his rank was. I don't care how many times he's deployed...if he's a Staff Sergeant it's very likely he's re-enlisted...which means he CHOSE to be there, and deploy into a dangerous environment.

He murdered women and children, while they slept. Let me say it again for the hard of hearing. He murdered women and children, while they slept. How does anyone defend that?

Why are we still there??? Didn't President Obama promise to get us out of Iraq and Afghanstan as part of his campaign, even saying within 100 days?? It is way past that timeframe. We need to get OUT!!!

I like that. They ask old Barry "Highway of Death" McCaffery to comment on the U.S. soldier murdering a bunch of civilians in cold blood. That's the corporate media's way of getting an "objective" opinion (Well, I guess in a way he is an authority)

Massacre in Afghanistan: US soldier kills 16 villagers, including 9 children

By Patrick Martin

12 March 2012

...Tragic and shocking it certainly is, but this atrocity, far from being an aberration, speaks volumes about what the American military has done to Afghanistan, as well as what the experience of 11 years of colonial war against an oppressed population has done to the American military.

Year after year, American and NATO troops have patrolled the same villages, districts and provinces, fighting an insurgency that is continually nourished by fresh recruits from among the destitute rural farmers and urban poor of a country whose economy has effectively ceased to function, except for those in the Afghan elite profiteering from the US-NATO gravy train.

The soldiers come to regard the entire population of the country as the enemy—a sentiment that has a powerful basis in reality, since the vast majority the Afghan people hate the foreign occupation and domination of their country. Racist sentiments towards the native population are the hallmark of any colonial occupation force, and among the more backward and unstable individuals this can easily escalate into homicidal violence.

But this is far from an individual question. Obama’s statement vowed punishment for “all those responsible” for Sunday’s atrocity. If those words had any meaning, Obama, Panetta, Joseph Biden, Hillary Clinton, and CIA Director David Petraeus would be sitting in the dock at a war crimes tribunal, along with all their predecessors in the Bush administration.

American military forces have perpetrated countless such atrocities in Afghanistan, although until recently these were categorized (and essentially dismissed) as unintentional errors: the incineration of an entire wedding party of dozens of people, “mistaken” as a Taliban convoy on the move; the killing of nine children gathering firewood, hit by a drone strike, “misidentified” as guerrilla infiltrators; dozens of bombing raids on Afghan villages where entire families have been exterminated, due to “poor targeting.”

In one such incident, only two days before the massacre in Kandahar province, NATO helicopters supposedly hunting insurgents fired on a group of civilians in Kapisa province, in eastern Afghanistan, killing four and wounding three. Some 1,200 people marched in protest in Kapisa on Saturday….

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/mar2012/afgh-m12.shtml

ArchStanton - When did the Taliban hire you to be their public information officer? Because your sounding like a sniffling anti-war protester with your post? No one condones murdering women and children. But judging from your post I guess you forgot your buddies (The Taliban) have done unspeakable horror to the local inhabitants before and after we arrived. So before you start bleeding all over the place, for these victims, don’t forget those who sacrifice daily by being over there and risking their lives. And the only thank you they get is "Have a nice day; we do not need you anymore."

American military forces have perpetrated countless such atrocities in Afghanistan, although until recently these were categorized (and essentially dismissed) as unintentional errors: the incineration of an entire wedding party of dozens of people, “mistaken” as a Taliban convoy on the move; the killing of nine children gathering firewood, hit by a drone strike, “misidentified” as guerrilla infiltrators; dozens of bombing raids on Afghan villages where entire families have been exterminated, due to “poor targeting.”

Yep, sound like the spoke person for the Taliban to me!

"If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."

I find myself, at least in part, agreeing with the Taliban here.

That they blow eachother up is immaterial because of course we shouldn't model our own behavioral standard around that-2 wrongs don't make a right. I hate that people bring up what the Taliban do in this discussion of what happened here. The Taliban have been horrific in how they treat their own people we need not compare ourselves to them> Sure they are hypocritically, it seems to us, intolerant of OUR killings of civillans when they do the same, but it's immaterial in the long run except to point it out. In any case, what a people does to itself is very different than when occupiers, outsiders do it to you. And, I can add, these people are Muslim and largely believe non Muslims are infidels (I've read the Koran in translation, and have had native Arabic reader-friends make sure the translation was not wrong in the original Arabic to be sure) so when they 'disrespect" or hurt or worse kill Muslims it adds INSULT to injury. That is why we see all the talk about the soldier "entering Muslim homes". etc that we did.

90% + of the world's Muslims (I will search for the link) believe that the Koran is the word of God. It is much larger percentage than belief in the holy books in other religions, and that is one main differerence. These people are largely illiterate in their own language and in Arabic so are not able to check out what clerics say themselves so that adds an xtra layer as well.

Mitchell Lowe and MarineDoc

There are no innocents in Afganistan. Everyone currently alive can kill you. Young, old, middle age it just doesn't matter, all of them can/will kill you under the right circumstances.

It is not being said that he is crazy, he has brain damage as a result of an IED. Sure he was medically cleared, which means nothing. A body is a body, ship him with the TBI as it just doesn't matter to DA.

If the perpetrators of this massacre were in fact mentally ill then this testifies to yet another moral transgression by the American military, because they are arming lunatics in Afghanistan who turn their weapons against the defenseless Afghans without giving a second thought."

I find myself, at least in part, agreeing with the Taliban here.

Laurali - Are you related to ArchStanton in anyway? Perhaps you’ve been hanging around too many Muslims to think clearly in this matter. American troops do not give a flying "F" what everyone else feels or thinks in a combat situation when they come in contact with Muslims. All they care about is staying alive and coming home in one whole piece. Remember one thing, we are there because they failed or were too weak to deal with the radicals in the first place. We did not start the war or invade to buy Afghan carpets to take home! Afghanistan has been a failed sh!t-hole since Alexander the Great; just like most of the Middle East is a failed sh!t-hole. That's what your 7th Century Throwbacks have done since their leader came out of a cave claiming he got the word from the man upstairs! Almost, and I say almost, every country in the Muslim world is a failed experiment to human freedom and dignity. Their populations are dirt poor, illiterate and starving to death. And the great West keeps pouring our money into these crap holes that will never escape the toilet! In closing I would add one more thing, please do not bring these @$$holes to our country like you did with the Somalis who settled here; reproduce, attempt to impose their customs on Americans, and became welfare rats for the American taxpayers to support.

Shadowofself53

So...you want use that as your excuse? Those children and women were innocent while they were sleeping, HE was the aggressor. Enough of this nonsense. Call him what he is. A sick, cowardly murderer. And please...don't talk to be about TBI.

These are the kind of comments you get when we start worshiping the military, and saying that they can do no wrong. I know the caliber of the guys in the military, alot of great men, but let's not pretend we are getting the best society has to offer. There's nothing heroic about signing enlistment papers. Not everyone who wears the uniform deserves it.

coming to a neighborhood near you--thousands of trained killers due to be discharged --high percentage mentally unstable. more of this to come. maybe just maybe they will be re-employed if the war machine gets it way and we will read about civilians killed by deranged soldier in iran. as truman said --''the future is just our history repeating itself''-----the war machine is never satisfied-there are huge profits to be made and the people slaughtered are just ''casualties''.

the war machine is never satisfied-there are huge profits to be made and the people slaughtered are just ''casualties' -

No, in business, the casualties are operating expenses, and so is the stable of legal "analysts" that justify those casualties. Turn this criminal over ... He give honest soldiers a bad rap and should not be protected.

It's time to come home. Nothing more can be accomplished with this setup.

Bring em all home. NOW!

Nancy Pelosi promised the war would be over and all the boys would come home in the first 100 days of her being in office (that was 2006) I think Democrats like the war business a lot more than they let on.

john from boston---i have seen the aftermath of world war 2. korea, vietnam and the gulf wars. none of these atrocities are new-----our city streets are crowded with ex-war heros------here they are called homeless. your reply shows your lack of depth and civility.

Anyone else think it strange that he was with the SEALS and "Special Forces" on a "neighborhood watch" ? They are using Special Forces for that? I realize he wasn't one of the special forces, but I am guessing something else was going on. That doesn't excuse killing civilians in their sleep mind you, I just don't think that we are getting the whole story here.

Terriels: He was with a US Army "Stryker Brigade" not with the US Navy Seals or US Army Special Forces. In the Army the duty they are obligated to accomplish is called a "Cluster F_ck"! That is precisely what it is. The President needs to accelerate the orderly withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan. At the end of the day, the Afghans will continue killing each other, continue growing poppy for opium and heroin, and continue with their tribal conflicts. They will not change one iota. Karzai is a crook and will flee when the last US soldier leaves.

Villian, get a clue. No, Democrats should never make promises they will never be in a position to keep -- like ending wars once they are elected, etc, because the way our political system is set up, no politician can ever guaruntee anything like that. Doesn't mean they weren't absolutely sincere in the desire to make it so. There are checks and balances and all other kinds of ways that the people who don't agree with each other can put a stop to anything productive ever getting done out of sheer spite. The Dems may very well have wanted to put an end to this nonesense ages ago, but it is not fair to blame them for not getting it done when the opposition has thrown everything but the kitchen sink in their way, preventing it. The republicans like war. They like starting them. They make money off of them. Sure, the Dems failed to end all wars on schedule (though they are finally winding down, in case you haven't kept up), but they didn't do it alone.

"This is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven," Karzai said in a statement. He said he has repeatedly demanded the U.S. stop killing Afghan civilians.

How about telling you own civilians to stop killing each other while you're at it. Oh, and, to stop killing over a certain book. That'd be great if he had the time to mash up all that stuff in one statement!

Granny22, yes you are right after WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and every other war our deranged killers were turned loose on the poor public resulting in the whole slaughter of civilians!!! What a stupid statement Granny, guess we know who is deranged!

billyd kid----- soldiers returning from war duty are highly likely to abuse their wives and other loved ones------don't you read the news?

Democrats should never make promises they will never be in a position to keep -- like ending wars once they are elected, etc,

What!? Politicians making promises that they cannot possibly keep? Like $2.50 gas? lol

Ranknfile, you are callously naive.

May you never know the agony of combat induced PTSD and the struggle for help those who have it endure.

As if a paltry $1500 would cover it.

While many of us offered that, do you know what we have to do to get that. I was given a nondescript bottle with pills with nothing except how many and when to take. When I came back and informed them of the symptoms, they noted them and took the bottle back. She went into the drawer and again gave me a nondescript bottle with nothing but the dosage and times. I politely took them and threw them in the trash on my way out. Would you have done the same or would you have keep taking the pills? Unless you have seen combat there is no way or telling what one is going through. There are many nights you wake up still thinking you are in a firefight for your life and having to change the sheets due to the amount of sweat.

justamazin, I do not doubt what you say about your husband however trust me when I tell you what I was given at the VA hospital in Miami. Read down below about the post from the medical worker from the VA in DC. I am sure as long as your husband was sharing with you, you had no problems living of the taxpayers. Now that he is gone all of a sudden it's a problem and you want to report it. Thank you for exposing that there are some like him, however why not do it while you are with him? There are soldiers that fake their injuries or look up what symptoms constitute PTSD and play of them. I do not take any medications nor do I live of the government. I sued my GI Bill and graduated college. I know there are many just like me that do not. Do not judge s based on the few that you know. Secondly ranknfile, how can you know if that young guy that passed you had all of his limbs? Just because he drove past you do not mean he has all of his parts. You assume you understand combat and PTSD however unless you have stood in those shoes how can you question them?

@G-Man. God bless you, you are a hero who has endured more then any of us can imagine. Soldiers make a huge impact on our way of life and so many take that for granted and it saddens me to see no compassion in a country built on the blood of soldiers. God bless you G-MAN you are Amazing!

I wasn't a typical Army wife, I worked as a professional (and not a stripper, I have a real job that paid 3 times what he made as a E-4) as well as cared for a child. I left him before he ever received the first check. I have morals and I stood against him the entire time he was trying to get the medical retirement because I KNEW what he was doing. I told his doctors, I told his command, no one listened to me. I saw over 10 guys in his unit do the exact same thing as he did. They all knew what to tell the doctors they were experiencing. They convinced the doctors to dope them up on trazadone to sleep. They wanted the sedatives. They wanted the pain pills. They didn't go to counseling, they didn't even attempt to "get better".

I grew up understanding PTSD. My uncle fought in Viet Nam and I saw his struggles. In 2004 he spoke in front of Congress to fight to get a diagnosis for PTSD to soldiers returning home from Iraq. He has battled it his entire life. He doesn't receive a penny from the military and he held a full time job from the time he returned home until he retired a few years ago. PTSD is real, I don't deny that at all.

Well, before we go into combat again.They, should think of what happens when the walking wounded come home.Think of the robots coming home.think of the ones they should let die.No,our trauma units are so good we have people like eggs coming home.Advertising for vets to join the police force.These people have 3 or more tours under their belt. You reach for your wallet your dead,I 'd shoot you I was taught, if I feared for my life it's good shoot.

You don't win the enemies hearts and minds,not when you occupy someone else country.The minute you heard the word Surge that's mission creep, pacification is allowing the people to grow poppies to support an insurgent we are fighting. There is no one president I blame for this FUBAR.I believe the blame a divided America,corrupt politicians bought and paid for by Wall Street and big Oil,banks and the right wing media pushing us now to go into Syria and Iran.Civility is gone in this country.

Our political system is morally bankrupt.No one cares. Bring back the draft.Let all the cell phone and Facebookers smell a bloated body,or put it in a body bag and zip like hell.

PTSD,you have just seen the tip of the iceberg and you're going to pay.I went to the VA and I had to park so far from the entrance because all the lots were full.So where is the out rage,protest ?I don't see it ,with a draft,you'd have a dog in this fight.

Lastly, don't judge this soldier .You weren't there.I want his side of the story.Hell,I could of done it maybe.

ranknfile

Then when you get your fake disability retirement they give you the max percentage of disability so you can still work then find you a cushy GS12 job and your Spouse also if you've never been in the Military your treated like a second class Citizen.

First I'm not 20 or 30 something. I WISH they would find me that cushy JOB. Who is THEY who treat you like a second class citizen. Not everyone has fake disabilities and if you had a clue what it takes to get disability in the first place you would be singing a different tune. Even those without disability EARNED points towards government employment Spend a year in their shoes before you make light of their treatment.

G-man gave you some examples and I am sure there are those who begrudge him for his "free" ride in college. There is no such thing as FREE from the military.

ranknfile: For a person who has never served his country in any capacity or never experienced the true meaning of Patriotism, putting ones life on the line, your statements are nothing more than convoluded, if not down right stupid!! You have NO concept of what can happen to you when you're asked to possibly lay down your life in the defence of your Country and the soldier next to you, you're safe at home writing moronic blogs! Your statements have a hint of envy in them, it's obvious. Oh yes, when I came back from Vietnam I met many people like you, who spat, called names, threw @!$%# bags, the trash of America! And "Yes" Military people do get preferential treatment when applying for Government jobs, they served their Country, something you have NEVER done! Get over it!!! Until YOU can experience sleeping 3 hours a night, waking up screaming, lose your wife, children and family (with the VA's help I got back), have homicidal and suicidal thoughts on a ongoing bases (have to take medications for the rest of your life), for what happened to you while serving your Country, you're nothing more than a COWARD for your statements, the shame is yours!!!!!...PATHETIC!!!!

justamazin, your obvious hatred for your ex-husband is shining brightly. If he is guilty of everything you claim, then it will not be long before his addiction will take its toll and all we will be worrying about is where to bury the body. You throw a blanket judgement over all of us with a VA disability. I have been awarded mine and work full time. I have also been threatened with termination, due to the symptoms of my PTSD. I have to take medication to keep the anger and frustration in check. I have lost my family, because of PTSD. I have lost most of my friends. I struggle to stay away from alcohol. You made 3x as much as your lowly E4 and was not a typical Army wife. You think pretty highly of yourself. What is the typical Army wife? Take your rant to the Bitter, Divorced, I Hate Men and the Army Forum. Your freedom of expression isn't wanted here.

ranknfile is a typical keyboard warrior, with no sense of what these guys go through in real combat. Justamamzing, just because your ex husband was an azzhole who cheated the government, hardly reflects on the thousands of honorable men who suffer a legitimate medical condition after serving our country.

No one is defending what this guy did, but the fact is if you really want to help with more than lip service (which is what our country gives to its vets), then write your Congressmen for better healthcare and screening when these are discharged. My two sons fought on both fronts, serving multiple tours of Iraq and Afghanistan. My first son is now disabled, and what we have had to go through to get him help outright shameful. My other son seems to have come out of his tours much better than his older brother, but I'm lucky -- at least they both came home.

It just amazes me how quickly people turn on these kids when something goes wrong. War makes people snap. This man will be dealt with and dealt with severely. He has brought shame to himself, his family and the uniform he wears --- but no one can convince me that he's in his right mind.

We need to get out and bring our kids home, but I fear this is just the beginning. With people beating the war drums with Iran, it's only a matter of time.

Many of you above have stated many good points, but you left out something very important !!

P.T.S.D. takes many forms and has a ton of systems . The one most over looked is DENIAL !!!! Denial river is wide and deep. Some of us who have ptsd never get out of that river. It's various systems hit at any time any where. Some times it's anniversary time, some times it,s crowds, walk in the woods or a park, even fire works set it off. Denial is perhaps the hardest to beat and admit to. P.T.S.D. CHRONIC is my diagnosis, live with it every day for 40 plus years now. Money wise ptsd only pays 70% not 100%. To get the last 30% the V.A. must declarer you unemployable. There is your last 30%. Most of you think it's the money. YOU ARE DEA WRONG !!!! Money helps but we would rather have our lives and original personalities back. Most likely this young shoulder flat out lost it before he even knew he needed help. Your life and personality changes during your first fire fight never again to be your old self. Hope my little rant helps you to understand P.T.S.D. a little better. Also you have it for life. NO KNOWN CURE !!

bob

VA Benefits are limited to 75%, or at least they are with the wounded warrior program in the Army, therefore that 5% isn't actually very much. Regardless to get the extra 25% generally you have to be missing a limb or be in some sort of mental state beyond PTSD (TBI for example).

If you at least show the initiative to go to counseling then there are dramatic increases in the quality of life. As I said before I know PTSD is a real thing, but it's being abused. Soldiers have figured out how to manipulate the system and get the money while being able to hold a full time job. I'm talking as recent as 2009/2010. VA Benefits are not considered income for the purposes of other government benefits (food stamps and HUD vouchers). Many are living on the $1500+/mo (there is an additional $250/mo for being injured in a combat zone) plus food stamps and free/very cheap housing and free health care. Last time I checked I make pretty good money and I surely don't have $1500 of "play money" after I pay my bills. What I am saying is the system is getting abused and those who actually need the benefits (those who have a head injury, missing limbs, severe PTSD) are being denied them. I lived almost a year with a spouse in the wounded warrior program, I met the families, I saw the devastation, but I also saw the manipulation. There are message boards out there that tell soldiers what they need to say, how they need to act, etc to get the benefits.

justamazin

I think you missed the point of my posting.

Money is fine . BUT most of us would rather have OUR LIVES BACK !!! What goes on inside heads is crazy. Makes no sense to us. Can not imagine what your life was like pure hell comes to mind . We can only be as good as we can if we work at it 24/7. even then it will sneak up and kick our ass for us.

bob

justamazin: I assume your ex-husband wasn't always looking for a free ride and his next hit off the tax payers, because you sound like someone who wouldn't have married him if that was always the case. So I assume after coming back from war his personality was rather severely altered to the point where you couldn't live with him. Sounds like PTSD to me, just with a macho touch that has him refusing counseling.

Mattinseattle

Good point about the PTSD and the changes that are seen in those suffering from it. The denial is a big thing, too. You come back from fighting a war, constantly looking over your shoulder, and not knowing what's going to happen next.

I would imagine while you're in the middle of it, you wouldn't address those fears and misgivings, what good would it do? They're there, they stick it out, and they get the job done, and I admire them for it.

Then, here they are at home and suddenly they're supposed to be in touch with their feelings. Answering questions, like how's it going, how do you feel, when many times they can't even think of an answer. Of course they will be in denial!

Also, when a soldier's whole life for the past few years has been war and staying brave, they're going to all of a sudden admit they were afraid, or they feel like they are losing their minds. They're going to confide all this to their parents or their wives?

I have never had a husband, son, brother, or my dad in a war. I wouldn't presume to know all the answers to all these problems. If we haven't been through it, all we can honestly say is that. We shouldn't be sitting back passing judgement on anyone. It's fairer to say, " I have no idea what that's like." because WE DON'T!

I am taken aback by what I read from those above on this particular post. Profound sadness is how I feel from reading your posts. Where did you go - how do you find your way back.

My son is in service - Navy . My nephew is in service - Army. My big brother was in service - Vietnam Army helicopter pilot. His friend - my first girlhood crush - across the street was killed in Vietnam - Army. My husband's father - Korea. All his brothers - WWII - all ten of them. My girlfriend's father was on the Bataan Death March. I used to watch his face - we were always quiet when visited her home. My grandfather - WWI. My great grandfather - Boar Wars. Further back - Civil War. Further still - Capt Paddock - Revolutionary War. Of those in my lifetime - I've never heard them speak of battles - of their time in service.

Will we ever have a generation not involved in a War? Will we ever get it right? Is real peace attainable or just a dream dangled in front of us like a carrot we shall never reach?

justamazin

You are not telling a complete story. I have to wonder if he shared some of his "ill gotten gains, with you would you be so bitter about what he gets? Besides trazzadone is not a seditive, it is a tricyclic antidepressant and has awful after effects the morning after. I know because I use to take it for sleep for my PTSD!.

Besides trazzadone is not a seditive, it is a tricyclic antidepressant and has awful after effects the morning after. I know because I use to take it for sleep for my PTSD!.

Google EMDR.

Shadowofself53, I'm not bitter about anything other than the abuse of the wounded warrior program. I couldn't care less about what he makes. I'd certainly give up $1500/mo to stay away from him. Anyone who would carelessly manipulate the system is certainly not the right person for me. I'd rather be on government assistance than have anything to do with that. Obviously I don't need the money as I said before. I'm certainly not in a position where $1500 is going to make or break me.

I know what those effects the morning after are ... they are even worse if you snort it like he and his friends do. EDIT: Oh I just saw where you thought I was referring to trazodone as a sedative. Miscommunication on my part. He was prescribed Klonopin, Trazodone, Oxycodone, and some other type of antidepresent that I can't remember at the moment. It was pretty common for he and his friends to snort them (and get kicked out of my house for doing so).

I am saying this that is an issue within the military. Soldiers who have mild PTSD are milking the system while those who have injuries where they are unable to work aren't getting the benefits they need. I saw the severe PTSD with the flash backs, the inability to function as their "normal" self, just all around horrible messes. I'm not talking about these people. The military should be supporting them 100% both medically and financially.

After watching several of his fellow soldiers get assassinated over a stupid book, and then watching his cowardly Commander in Chief apologize for the book and not demand one from the Afghans for killing our soldiers, no wonder this guy snapped. It's pretty bad when your own President turns his back on you.

This is the problem with wars. We have collateral damage. Yet many are pressing for to enter a military campaign again. Might do not make right. We have own own issues here yet we try to correct others. How can you take advice from a marriage counselor that has been divorced multiple times? In the world we are that marriage counselor. We are NOT the world's keeper and need to stop acting as such.

Why is everybody giving this guy a free pass? There are thousands of other soldiers that haven't snapped and murdered a bunch of women and children intentionally and indiscriminately.

Plus, why is nobody mentioning that this guy was DRUNK?

How did the military evaluate the Traumatic Brain Injury from 2010? I think the defense may want to revisit the issue and determine if the test clearing the soldier for duty were adequate to determine the effect of the TBI.

That was an ignorant comment. Just thought you should know it.

Curt - Sorry, but Average Guy's comments may be poorly worded, buy he is quite correct. In addition, a vast percentage of these fanatics have ZERO combat experience and they are always the most vocal about bombing the world when anybody disagrees with them AND the least understanding/compassionate to the psychological impacts of exposure to combat.

Yeah oilman, it's too bad "those people" don't have obama's experience, eh? Talk about zero experience......at anything!

agree OilmanMD, and can go along with many others. The Afghans probably don't see nor do they care about Syria, I believe who has their military killing their own people.

sure we don't want to see the children die or be molested but it goes on in our own streets everyday but its always stray bullets........yeah! right

USA/Canuck, you are exactly what oilman and Average Guy are talking about. You want to blame someone or do you want to do something about this situation? Pressure your Congressmen to get our troops out of there and bring them home.

Better yet, tell you Congressmen to "pipe down" on all the war talk with Iran. Do more than just politicize, criticize and point fingers. Smoke and mirrors -- all of it. As no one, Democrat or Republican, can explain why we are still there and why we're just about to declare another war on Iran. It makes no sense, and we need answers.

Our military needs to weaken and then we cannot stop policing the world. This is one way to stay at home and take care of our own. Let the world sort out it's own problems and carve it's own identity. If we keep the Armed forces armed and deployed we are looking for trouble. Everyone wants to knock of the bully. Downsize, closes bases abroad and spend money on those that has already served.

Meant to say stop policing the world.

Eddie Kent - you have no idea what you're ranting about! It's not Obama who got us into Iraq -- it was Obama who got us out! It's not Obama beating with war drums with Iran!

We're scheduled to get out of Afghanistan at the end of 2013 or '14. Why not now? That is the question we need to ask Congress and the President. As bad as it is, God only knows what would have happened under McCain and Palin!

We did the right thing electing Obama because declaring war on Iran would be the beginning of the end. They are not Iraqis. They will not surrender. They will not run. They're Navy is comparable to ours. Their Army is well trained and disciplined. Why? Because their young men are required to serve.

If we think that going up against a country who will fight us "tooth and nail" is going to be a "walk in the park" with an all-volunteer army, we're kidding ourselves. One thing the President did say, is that before we send our sons and daughters into combat with another country, we better think long and hard about the consequences.

Have your Congress reinstate the draft so that you might have the 1,500,000 ground soldiers to take the country and hold it for your purposes. The US war failures are the fault of long term policies and the depraved politicians in your Congress and ultimately with you as a voter. They pass the laws and spend the money on foreign misadventures.

Forget it Kat, if reason worked on ideologues, we wouldn't have anything to rant at each other about....

So, the multiple wars and not enough personnel are not to blame? It is the president who inherited this mess.... The same guy who is supposed to magically fix our economy while taking care of our wounded and currently deployed. What a load of bs! He is doing his best to bring our men and women home and to improve our standing in the world. He was handed a pretty bad situation and is turning it around. He has less cash than his predecessor who started the wars "off the books" and now the bill is due.

He has targeted specific terrorists and been effective with unmanned drones. He used better policies to accomplish what needed to get done over there. We are in better shape by far than the direction we were headed in before he was in office.

This soldier who did this may have snapped and may just be an amazing jerk. No one posting here knows him personally or his current story. I can say that what he did was awful for the people killed, their loved ones, the US military and our relations over there. He did not act on behalf of the rest of the 90,000 of our military members. He gave our country a black eye and did a tremendous amount of damage. There is no condoning or excusing what he did. You don't get a "kill a few natives for free" pass for having deployed several times. Those were human beings with a right to live and not be murdered in their sleep.

yeah, and i am sure that mccain or romney would have pulled the troops out by now. sheesh...any opportunity huh?

The Republicans want to attack Iran now! What makes you think Obama started this war? He is doing his best to finish it, but the gradiated troop withdrawal is strategic- you can't just call 90,000 troops home and then say thanks for your service, enjoy the private sector. Even though the economy is recovering, it can't support the influx of tens of thousands of new job seekers, many of whom are career soldiers. Everyone wants the troops to come home, but to rush it would cause us to end up with homeless vets on the streets who have never been able to integrate back into society after several deployments. We still have thousands of homeless Vietnam vets who are unable to do it.

LegalSara

Bringing the troops home doesn't mean they immediately are discharged. So that argument does not pass muster. Bringing them home would take them out of harms way, reduce spending on combat pay, reduce the cost of equipment usage and ELIMINATE the potential for things like this or other embarrassments like "burning" holy books.

Had you explained it from a strategic military view we might be able to support your view.

Thank you! Thank you! When you want less government you get less government however you never know where the cuts will be. You want less government as long as it doesn't affect you but it has to affect someone and vets fall through the cracks. Again, we are only heroes if we die on the battlefield other than that we are a reminder of failed wars.

There are many places to reduce the government that would hardly be noticed. Hopefully one day this is an area that could be reduced with no harm done but meanwhile I am behind our forces all the way.

Peng---Thank you for sharing the real world as it really is. It's ashame we do this to our Vets. It's been a problem for many years.

Barb

Tell you what Barb, if some A-hole like this monster murders your family (children included) in their sleep, I'll make sure to remind you to "go ahead and stand in his place" before passing judgement.

Give it a rest Barb, their is no justifyable reason for what this sick-o did. And trying to rationalize his actions makes you just as sick as he is.

This guy is a murderer of innocent women and children in their sleep. I don't want him back on US soil to do the same thing here.

It's no wonder you're broke.

I completely agree with you, meanest one. Let the Afghan people deal with him, he killed innocent civilians there so let that country's laws decide what happens to him. If someone from another country had killed 16 people (9 children and 3 women included) in the U.S. people wouldn't be taking his side in this forum (or anywhere) BUT because it happened to foreigners it's "ok." That's being hypocrites; the double standard regarding this issue is so sad to witness.

16 people got killed by this monster. There's no excuse for what he did.

If some foreigner had killed 9 children, 3 women and 4 men in the U.S. he would have been tried here. I'm pretty sure the U.S wouldn't have handed him over to his country. Let him pay for his crimes there and bring closure to the victims' families.

You are right, we are hypocrites, but we are hypocrites with reasonably deep pockets and we pay for everything!

Status of Forces agreements forbide the turning over of uniform military to a foreign country. Oh and guess what, we have one with thes azzbites too!

The government knew this going in! They knew that the services available were not enough to take care of the problems they were making including amputations and PTSD!

Every Vietnam combat vet knew what was going to happen but we could not get anyone to listen.

So now we have a huge numbers of injured and are unable to cope with all of their problems.

I agree but it really isn't about what the other person does. It's about how we act and live.

@Steve-512947

The US had no Business there in the first place. It was an excuse to act has though they were looking for Osama bin Ladin but really they are trying to protect their interest or increase them (oil) .It was not Barak that started this fiasco it was bush Jr. and Sr.

@Steve-512947

The US had no Business there in the first place. It was an excuse to act has though they were looking for Osama bin Ladin but really they are trying to protect their interest or increase them (oil). It was not Barak that started this fiasco it was bush Jr. and Sr.(Indirectly). America needs to leave those countries and focus on the problems in America and there are a lot.

cuz they are cowards who dont want their kids to come home dead !

Excuse me, but our own Vice President has a son over there. Shut the eff up. Stupid comments like that doesn't help.

6 legislators had children serving in the military during the Iraq war-1 senator,5 congressmen...of which all but one congressman's son served in country (Iraq) as for their assignments....as least 2 (what I could find from my research were definetly on the front lines....and then there is the V.P.'s son- could not find any info about those currently serving in Afghanistan.

@Crises4ever: You are mistaken. Not only did VP/Senator Biden's son, Beau, serve in Iraq, so have the sons & daughters of many politicians in Congress & state government & in both parties. A couple of weeks ago, when Santorum said women shouldn't serve in combat, Virginia's GOP Governor chastised him because the Gov's daughter is serving in combat positions. Have some respect for those who do serve honorably, please.

How can we do this when everyone is calling for a smaller government? While i am in total agreement with you? Where do you cut government? Cuts have to be made and the military is the biggest spender. We have to be very careful of what we ask for.

Sounds like a Taliban idea. Maybe the Taliban should look at this as restitution for all the people killed after the Koran incident... or in their words "revenge".

Assuming you're right with that theory what do you think would have been his motivation?

@Curt

Assuming you're right with that theory what do you think would have been his motivation?

He is a coward. And that's not assuming.

Hmmmm...are you saying Laughner was related to Gabby Giffords? The others that were killed and injured? Do you think having a break down would wait until you could get home to your "own"?

Pietro - you experience 3 tours in Iraq and serving your 4th in Afghanistan and tell us how you're faring after that. PTSD is alive and well for the "doubting Thomas'" who are not acquainted with our military.

He might as well have turned against his "own"...that will be the net effect, after all the retaliations that are sure to follow. Our mission there is accomplished; Bin Ladin dead, Al Qaida weakened. Time to get out of there!

Pietro that was the dumbest statement yet. Have you experienced PTSD? Do you have facts to back up your asinine claim? As the wife of a vet I would like to say that not only are you wrong but you're an idiot. I would love to see people like you serve your country and do a few tours.

It was not Taliban, but the Saudi dude. We should have invaded saudi Arabia.

I don’t believe this guy was acting alone. He got up—out of his bunk and nobody saw or suspected anything? He just happens to be the murder caught or most likely able and willing to carry out this bizarre series of fanatical acts? Yes he’s a killer, train to kill and to do so dispassionately and he and only he can truly appreciate his accomplishment[s]—we’re not soldiers and most of you will never see combat of any sort. We’re talking about someone’s son and some women’s husband and father and a personal decision. So you have to believe; here’s a guy who may have been acting out of character. Clearly killing is particularly gruesome and disillusioning but, that’s a soldier’s expectation—to kill or be killed. It’s bizarre. A guy walks pass guards or sneaks off post carrying some sort of weapon—notwithstanding sentries post on the perimeter. He systematically walks in or breaks-into more than one home. Unsuspectingly—civilians killed—he apparently then goes about setting a number of victims on fire in an effort to destroy the evidence. This is an insane series of events, and most likely he is not the only person returning home after the war potentially capable of doing the same—without provocation. I look first and foremost to Cheney/Bush then, doctors and officers. If this guy is dysfunctional he’s safe! Insanity pleas are unsurprisingly next-up and this guy’s only defense is to find a physician disposed to render him mentally challenged, which more than likely serve political and mental health officials interest. Predictably, most soldiers serve this country honorable. This guy obviously has issues.