Love it or leave it!

You have been fighting a political/bussiness war,NOT a war to defend the country.

If that was the case you should have been fighting the SAUDIES. Osama was a Saudi citizen. Osama was Al Qaeda.

You have been fighting the Taliban who had nothing to do with 9/11.

Afghanistan was know to have enormous mineral deposits. Does Haliburton rings a bell or Dick Cheny?

Ironicaly even that you did not get because the Afghans signed contracts with the Chinese and Indians to have those resources developed.

So you have been fighting the wrong war for the wrong reasons and for the the wrong bussiness.

Wanna give Iran a try for Israel?

Put money on it that you will.

So far you have been conned by the politicians and big bussiness (war is good for bussiness) for Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Just listing the big ones.

Maybe they need their own Patriot Act that essentially rounds up all white people in their country and interrogates them for years without a trial.

Cynical175 You have hit the nail right on the HEAD! I and others have been saying that the last wars fought in the last 45 years,were not Wars of Defense,they were MANUFACTURED WARS SET UP ESPECIALLY FOR BUSINESS,INORDERTO FILL SOME FAT ASS DOCKER EXECUTIVE'S BACK POCKETS, AND BASICALLYSCREW THE PEOPLE.

These wars HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH DEFENDING THIS COUNTRY.

Pardon my english,but these WARS have been all Bull Sh it Propaganda!People were Stupid Enough and Gullible Enough to fall for this Bull Sh it!

This is what happens when wars go on for a long time and when you keep fighting men and women on the line too long. Our people are exhausted and their people want us to go, and we should accomodate their wishes. Another 2 or three years will make little difference in the final outcome of this war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnK8_KJcmWg

George Carlin talks about America and war.

The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are immoral and have nothing to do with our defense. Our country is driven by the military establishment and the greed of corporations which supply those weapons. Our defense budget is larger than all the other countries combined. What does this tell us. Worried about gasoline prices? Rep. Gabby Giffords stated before she was shot in the head by a gun weilding nut that our military uses 70% of all the oil we produce and import. We have over 770 military bases around the world in about 200 countries. Everyone needs to speak up and contact your corrupt and incompetent representatives and put a stop to this insanity. Every young person in this country could get a free college education with all the money wasted on these stupid and out of control wars. The US military is draining every drop of blood from our economy and it is all on borrowed money, primarily from China. Lets stop this wild and out of control insanity.

we have diffidently outworn our welcome in Afghanistan, can any one come up with a valid reason why we are still there, besides a lot of Corporations making lots of money, hell we have even outsourced meals to Haliburton at 35 dollars per meal.

i feel sorry for the Afghanistan people, but really they have been experiencing tragedy in their land for many years. it seems that because this Soldier went on a rampage, being an outsider, non-afghanistanian, has opened another cause for these people to fight about.

i get the feeling they do not care about their country, their own people, or anyone doing what they themselves do. just because this Soldier (for reason's of his own) went and killed some of their people, is this not what they themselves have been doing?

there are alot of angry folks in Afghanistan, in-bred troubles and malcontent, the only thing this Soldier did was bring it out and identify who the real trouble is coming from. don't get me wrong, i am not supporting his actions, i think it was terrible what he did, but surely we know this was a troubled country way before this past weekend, and really, what the Soldier did was to stir up a hornet's nest hotter than ever.

i also wonder about the burning of the Koran incident. surely these people have burned a few too. i think what angered them more was because an outsider, not one of them, burnt a few copies of the Koran. again, i am not supporting this, but it does give me cause to wonder what really is happening over in Afghanistan.

i think for the safety of all, the US and GB troops should be removed from this land and let the Afghanistanian people work out their differences.

they do not want any help inspite of their own people who are rapidly becoming their victims.

"Caught in the middle" - you feel sorry for the Afghanistan people? They are the cause of their own misery. Which is why we need to get out of that country - that whole region of the world. I don't feel sorry for them one bit - these are the same people that rejoiced in the streets when 9 11 happened.

Hey Joe D Glenn I just saw that George Carlin Video.I haven't laughed like that in a long time,thanks.To bad he had to die, we sure could use him now!

At least the Afghanistan people won't see Americans celebrating in the streets and burning the Afghan flag over what this one US soldier did.

who exactly is "the community" on here? I say I have no sympathy for the Afghan that is crying and my comment is "collapsed by the community"? Why is that?

BSCOL- because you do not adhere to the kumbaya "value diversity" BS that the liberal peace freaks adhere to, and that Newsvine goes along with.

The same people that have kept the war going for years because they never let the military go in and just get it over with (they have blamed it all on Bush /Cheney without mentioning the democrats -- ALL of them --who voted for the war in the first place, for political expediency).

They are not part of the solution, but are a lot of the problem.

Get with it bud : kumbaya!

I just find it hard to believe that my comment was collapsed - I didn't call anyone any names or use profane language. I spent 8 years of my life in the United States Army and served in Desert Shield/Storm, and I think I have the right to express my opinion without some Newsvine Nazi collapsing my comment.

"we then asked the people to show restraint, then we sent them back to their homes"!! We told them to hurry along and mourn at home, or we would kill them!!! I wonder if their are, you know, those sarchastic asses that are in every crowd,...like a Afghany Village Smartass in the background of the bltching Afghany people, saying thing's like....Oh, so you save us from the "Towelban", now you use us as frk'n target practice....thank you America...thank you GWB...thanks Tamorlane

Title of article: "Mourning, anger sweep Afghanistan after massacre"

Of course they should mourn and weep. What that Staff Sargent did was horrid! With that said, that Sargent's chain of command should have recognized his behavior and relieved him of his duties. Also, how did he get buy the sentries in the middle of the night? Didn't the sentries question him as to why he was leaving his outpost or base camp?

BTW, President Hamid Karzai can go to Hell.

Too many question right now. Lets let the UCMJ and investigators handle this and NOT the Afghan authorities.

Unbe"f^ckin'lieveable! Sh!t is really going to hit the fan over this mess!

Bscol, why don't you listen to your own words? You criticize "caught in the middle" for feeling sympathy for the Afghan people. Your reasoning is that they "rejoiced in the streets when 911 happened". They were wrong for doing that, but if that means they should be killed then the same goes for you. If you can rejoice that they are being killed, then you are no better. The Afghan people weren't responsible for 911, any more than the people of Iraq. The terrorists were responsible for the deaths of about 3,300 innocents. They US is now responsible for more than 100,000 innocents in Iraq and 12,000 innocents in Afghanistan. Our lust for blood and power have resulted in our killing many more than the terrorists from Saudi Arabia ( which we didn't attack, because we get oil from them. )

James - I am not rejoicing or saying that what this soldier did was right or justified - it certainly was not. But that does not mean I am going to be sympathetic to them.

Fact is, we were never going to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people. Islam is not compatible with western democratic ideas, and whatever we were over there for is no longer attainable. The best thing for America and our military is as fast an exit as we can safely do.

Great post James - thanks for that. We have the most blood on our hands yet we convince ourselves that we stand for peace and democracy. What a crock of sh*t if you believe that. We stand for world power and dominance - and we will kill anyone who stands in our way to achieve that.

BSCOL - its because your comment is completely without value. We realize there are idiots who don't sympathize with the victim's friends and family, simply because they are Afghani. The Afghani people are not all the same, I realize you probably had it drilled into your head that they are all the enemy, but I find it hard to believe that all those children who were murdered in their sleep were members of the Taliban.

People like you are part of the problem, there is a big difference for having sympathy for the families of victims and having sympathy for the Taliban. It might help if you thought a little bit and realized that they are not all the enemy.

Since they killed many of our service members for burning the koran, the response to our killing them should be to burn our bibles.

Perhaps 10 bibles should be sufficient...

And perhaps we all should wait for the 'rest of the story' before judging the US (and other) forces. I am very suspicious about the circumstances and all the 'pictures' that have magically appeared.

Blame Bush all you want. OBAMA IS NOW IN POWER. Get that concept into your minds and then each and everyone that is in the U.S. (all citizens) call the President or congress and tell them fools to get the U.S. out of Afganistan. GET US OUT OF AFGANISTAN. GET US OUT OF AFGANISTAN. GET US OUT OF AFGANISTAN.

You don't need to be a Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian to see what is going on. We need leadership to make a descision that is right for our country. We have no leadership either in Congress or in the President. Obama listen to the PEOPLE OF THE USA.

GET THE HELL OUT OF AFGANISTAN

Bscol, I'm grateful that you're not rejoicing, and I shouldn't have read that into your comment ( though there are far too many in this country who do rejoice and thirst for vengeance ). For the sake of your own soul, I would encourage you to find it in your heart to sympathize. It's a very short walk from losing our compassion to being uncivilized and animalistic.

Interested Observer- Who are "they" exactly? I guess you include children who were murdered in their sleep to be part of the "they", and I guess you think they deserved it for what "they" did? Is that what you're saying?

BikeBoy, if you take my car and drive it into a deep patch of mud, it takes some time to think about how to pull it out without tearing it apart. Bush drove us into 2 unjust and murderous wars ( and he and Cheney will be judged in eternity for their crimes ). I would have liked this president to get us out more quickly, but he wants to make sure that "the car isn't torn apart" in the process ( plus, every GOP hawk in the country would have been calling him a traitor and saying he was making the sacrifices that troops have made all in vain. ) I am in total agreement with you, however, in that now is the time to get out of this unnecessary and terrible war.

@Bscol - I can explain why you were collapsed:

Please look at the picture in the link below:

This child and the other CHILDREN were not even born by 9/11. LOOK AT HER, she was an INNOCENT CHILD

http://www.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/article/2012/03/12/les-talibans-jurent-de-venger-le-massacre-de-civils-afghans-par-un-soldat-americain_1656235_3216.html

Among the dead was a young girl in a green and red dress who had been shot in the forehead. The bodies of other victims appeared partially burned. A villager claimed they had been wrapped in blankets and set on fire by the killer.

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/11/us-soldier-killing-afghanistan-children?intcmp=239

Instead of hiding behind 9/11 - ask what did these children do, to die execution style, and then be set on fire?
How many innocent people must die before you feel that there has been enough death? Two wrongs don't make a right.... do you think that those who died on 9/11 wished that there was a CHILD somewhere to take their place? ... I don't

james - thank you for being concerned with my soul, however if getting into heaven means I have to have compassion for all people, I will be spending my eternity wanting for a cold glass of water. I save my compassion for those that deserve it. Perhaps if you spent any time over in that area of the world, you would understand.

Alright bscol we get it you have no compassion for a young girl who was murdered in her sleep simply because she was born in Afghanistan. You must think you're a real tough guy, huh? I think that makes you less of a man, perhaps if you had a daughter you would understand.

Why do you assume that I am a man? Because I was in the military for 8 years? Because I served over in that area of the world? I am not a man - I am a woman and I have 2 sons and a daughter. I never once said that what happened was right - it wasn't. But I save compassion for those that deserve it. I am assuming they don't deserve it. But you are assuming they do. You don't know any more than I do.

Bscol, well there are certainly people in this world who are much worse than any I have met. It's fairly easy to forgive someone who cuts in line in front of you, and another thing altogether to forgive someone who murders and has no civility. I admit that it's not human nature to forgive, but some things are worth aspiring to. When you see crowds on the news, rejoicing over 911, you do know that it doesn't include everyone in that country. The little 8 year old girl who died wasn't even born when those idiots rejoiced. You also must know that every country has its fair share of idiots who say and do hateful things in front of cameras. And you can rest assured that if you need a cold cup of water, there are many who would be more than willing to give it to you, even if we disagree. And I can assure you that none of us "deserve" sympathy. Sympathy is an act of grace, which is something we simply can't earn. Have a good day.

Perhaps if you bscol realized that these people who were murdered are citizens of Afghanistan (by birth) but denizens of this planet, our world (also by birth). You could have been born in Afghanistan, you were not - but you are so quick to pass judgement. Is judgement yours to pass? I'm not talking about religion - I'm talking about walking a mile in someone else's shoes.....how would you feel if this were your family, or your village? Other nations are not as spread out as the US - but as gun happy as you are, give me your zip code and I will direct you to the closest recruitment office - if you are too old, please sign up your children - you apparently think young children are disposable.

Funny how the people of Afghanistan don’t go into "mourning" or get "angry" when the Taliban slaughter hundreds of innocent Afghan civilians with indiscriminate bombings and other atrocities. Oh I get it, they just hate OUR guts. WE MUST GET OUR PEOPLE OUT OF THAT HELL HOLE NOW ! Afghans don't want civilization so we should leave them to rot in their little 7th century world.

Actually I'm sure the families of the victims mourn and are angry when the Taliban do those things. The Taliban is evil, this soldier is evil, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Black Kettle - you are making assumptions just as much as I am! As stated in another posting - I spent 8 years of my life serving in the United States Army. One of my sons was in the Marine Corps for 5 years and the other is still serving. My daugther isn't old enough yet, but rest assured, if that's what she decides to do, I will support her 100%. I am not "gun happy" and really don't know why you would even say that.

Well bscol, despite that you seem to think all Afghani's deserve to be murdered in their sleep, I hope you children are safe over there. But I also really hope that they don't share your mindset, I think that mindset is probably what justified this soldier's actions in his own mind.

For all those that are saying they have no sympathy for those that were killed............. do you want more American soldiers to die uselessly? If we keep inflaming the passions of those that are there then we are wasting the lives,time, money and energy of the US to be there. We CANNOT win the war against terror against the taliban, al quida or anyone else without local cooperation and everytime we engage in an act of idiocy like killing civillians,burning the Quran or peeing on their dead we might as well go out and hand out recruiting posters for the taliban because we are doing all the work for them. So all you keyboard commandos blathering on about how we should feel no pity or remorse you might as well just go shoot the closest US soldier because your ignorance is doing all the work for our enemies

What assumptions am I making? Army - me too, female, me too ... the only difference is that I didn't say:

I have very little sympathy for this person they are showing crying due to the 16 lives that were taken by one US soldier, mainly because these were the same people rejoicing in the streets when 3,000 people were killed on 9 11.

and, I do have sympathy....we are the occupiers we are supposed to be BETTER (I left the military as soon as I could) but we are NOT supposed to execute people..least of all sleeping CHILDREN.... 1: follow orders 2: protect your men 3: protect yourself - cardinal rules of the Army.... this man did EVERYTHING WRONG.... good soldiers will DIE because of what he did...what is so DIFFICULT to UNDERSTAND about that? I also ask a few questions, since you brought it up.... I was in engineering on ROTC scholarship (turned down West Point)... I learned physics, and 9/11, (buildings do not collapse on their blueprint naturally or by plane), and Afghanistan NOW have NOTHING to do with each other NO matter how you look at it. If you read TrustVerify yesterday, this country has been at overt war or "police action" all but 15 years of its existence....your military, don't even tell me you can't count "covert" operations or "collateral damage!" If you don't care about who we are "supposed" to help, let alone a child - fine, tell that to yourself when you get a folded flag for your child's life!

Think this was a blood bath! Wait until we pull out of there (the sooner the better), these cretins will revert to what they have done for thousands of years, KILL THEIR OWN... men, women and children. They are as backward and stupid as western religious churches were up till several hundred years ago. You might include the Irish catholics and protestants of today. Maybe it's time for all religions to GROW UP.

If Obama were serious about holding whoever is behind the violence fully responsible then he would resign his presidency. He would admitt that his failed policies with the silly rules of engagement that force our troops to be cut to ribbins before they can defend themselves are at least significantly to blame for this solder snapping under the stress. His willingness to set a date for departure has encouraged the Taliban to hang on and wait us out. Obama is not completely to blame just and GWB was not solely responsible to Abu Gahrib or waterboarding at GB, Cuba but the president is the leader of the armed forces, they live or die by his rules, and he must be responsible for their actions.

It's hard for me to give a crap about these people. The Taliban kill a hundred at a time in a market place or something, yet one American goes nuts and it is "mourning and anger"....give me a break. These people are just POS and we should get the hell out of there and let the Taliban kill all of them they wish, starting with that $hithead Karzai.

"

caught in the middle!

i feel sorry for the Afghanistan people, but really they have been experiencing tragedy in their land for many years. it seems that because this Soldier went on a rampage, being an outsider, non-afghanistanian, has opened another cause for these people to fight about.

i get the feeling they do not care about their country, their own people, or anyone doing what they themselves do. just because this Soldier (for reason's of his own) went and killed some of their people, is this not what they themselves have been doing?

there are alot of angry folks in Afghanistan, in-bred troubles and malcontent, the only thing this Soldier did was bring it out and identify who the real trouble is coming from. don't get me wrong, i am not supporting his actions, i think it was terrible what he did, but surely we know this was a troubled country way before this past weekend, and really, what the Soldier did was to stir up a hornet's nest hotter than ever.

i also wonder about the burning of the Koran incident. surely these people have burned a few too. i think what angered them more was because an outsider, not one of them, burnt a few copies of the Koran. again, i am not supporting this, but it does give me cause to wonder what really is happening over in Afghanistan."

Um. Wow. "surely these people have burned a few too" No, I don't think so. And, because they have been experiencing tragedy in their land, as you say, for such a long time, that means it's ok for s professional soldier to kill innocent women and children in their sleep? What are you talking about? Are you a troll? Or do you really believe what you wrote?

Kudos DebbieKat: The problem is that we are fighting a Religion with Politics. Muslims will back Muslims against any charges from a Non-Muslim entity. Basically, in Afghanistan and most if not all Muslim nations, their religion IS their politics whereas here in America Politics IS our religion; look at the mess we are in as a result. Any Doubts? Look to how long the Republican Debate theme has been carried on, and on, and ON.

In Afghanistan the speak of how to maintain and improve their religion, religiously; here, fewer and fewer people turn to God for anything except as someone to blame for the troubles they brought upon themselves. We HAVE NO central point of decency anymore, the deceptions of our political leaders are proof enough of this.

1,000 years ago there were the Christian Crusades; I firmly believe that we are on the verge of a Muslim Jihad to rival it but with a much different form of warfare and more terrible weapons. Once again it will be a matter of the have-nots (Muslims) seeking to gain the plenitude of the haves (The Westerners). The only questions now should be who are their Allies and Why.

Regarding the ACCIDENTAL burning of the Koran: 1) How were those that burned the book to know what the contents were as it was printed in a language they could not read? 2) As the Muslims in the prison and holding areas had sent messages back and forth in the margins and text of the books already, The books were already defiled and unholy by the hands of their own people.

Worse "massacres" happen in Afghanistan almost every day. Does "Mourning, anger sweep Afghanistan" then also? Or only because an American did the killing?

Do the Muslims, especially those with high addiction of Islamic heroin need a reason for anger, rioting and killings?

Three dramas going on in parallel.

1. The Quran and killing of civilians. A few weeks before, there was sad news report of the Afghanistan refugee camps begging for the US and other aids. In Afghanistan, demands/screams are: withdraw, no use war (it took 11 years for some to understand).

2. Syrian rebels backed by the Sunni Saudi al-Qaida, Muslim Brotherhood and the whole gang of Sunni rich Arab rulers liberally throwing monies around weeping, crying for help and so on. Screams: arm the rebels, bust the Assad, blow up with drones and so on! After all “kids are kids”, “humans first” and so on. By the by, the US soldiers are not human

3. Scare and war mongers led by the Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists are looking for WMDs in Iran (which they missed until the end in Iraq) demanding: use the “Big Bomb”, use drones, missiles and so on. Oil prices have started zooming again making Saudis and their companies richer and richer!

Sorry: people don’t get it. They are all Obama’s fault!

Sick of some of the people who decide to weigh in here say that:

A. The Saudis were the ones who attacked us on 9/11 we shouldve attacked them

The Saudi group that attacked us was handpicked by Bin Laden because they spoke good English and looked more western than the Afghanis. His plan was conceived and logistically supported from Afghanistan using Taliban support.

B. The Taliban are not our enemy

Completely untrue. The Taliban are made up of several segmented tribes that use Al Qaeda elements as their command and control / leadership. The Haqqani Network is more allied with AQ than any other. They were the ones that plotted and executed the Times Square bombing attempt a few years ago. This was a Taliban that trained and counseled him, not Saudis.

We need to leave this country altogether.

This maybe the case to some extent due to the perils of a protracted war but the eventually fight will end up on our soil. The Taliban (both Haqqani and Mesud) have vowed to use this respite to plan attacks on America and American interests abroad including kidnappings and beheadings. You can forget your trip to Europe after we withdraw, Pashto populations are large in England, France.

There are large deposits of minerals in Afghanistan that's why we are there.

True but this was known decades before the war and just like the oil everyone claimed we attacked Iraq for, the Chinese and the Russians will get the contracts for mining it. I loved how all the anti-war liberals changed their tune when we didnt get a drop of Iraqi oil after winning the war.

RILEY, We're sick of hearing of how Liberals are doing this and that when it is CONSERVATIVES who got us into this conundrum in the first place. I have to wonder how many of their support providers are scurrying to keep us there; remember the old rule of thumbs that most of the Military votes Republican? We Know that the Military-Industrial Complex are Mercenary Conservatives and how they vote, if you don't check with Dwight Eisenhower's takeoffs on the subject.

It's time to admit that Afghanistan is a failure and bring our troops back home. Not only is their culture radically different from ours (and what we would like to change it to be), but this also isn't really a nation - it's a collection of loosely affiliated regions/warlords. Unless we are willing to commit hundreds of thousands of troops over many decades, our nation building effort is bound to fail when we leave. Yes, it sucks, and I feel for the useless sacrifices made over there the last 10+ years, but it's time to face facts. Spending more money and throwing away more American lives isn't going to make a difference.

You cant turn nomads into tax paying city-dwellers.

War requires a committment to destruction, (Total War is Total Destruction):

• The idea is to destroy resources, (including people), on the other side until they are willing to quit fighting.
• With "War" we have always attampted to apply rules about what can be destroyed and what should be sacred.
• This causes people on both sides to go insane.

We have overstayed our welcome; its time to leave.

We've seen what they do when a 'book' is burned by mistake.

This could be a huge mess.

Gee, the rest of us here thought it ALREADY IS!

GREDEL- if you don't like what "corporate america" has for you, turn off your computer, put down the phone, grow your own food, fibers for clothing, and move into the house you built with the trees you cut down and shaped, and the nails and wires that you made from the ore you dug.

Might be faster to move to rural China. Bye!

Ritdog - what you describe is how America was built. The problem today is so few are even capable of surviving without the modern conveniences. Bombing Afghanistan back into the stone age didn't work, because they never advanced out of it. If we look at the rural areas of Pakistan and Afganistan, Nigeria, Somalia, and other places, we see the strongholds of Muslim extremists, and they are, literally, still in the stone age except for modern weaponry.

James ( from one James to another ), there are two problems with your statement: The first is that we are not at war with Afghanistan. We've never declared war. Our undeclared war is on "terrorism". Our stated policy since the beginning was to root out the terrorists and partner with the Afghan people ( both admirable but naive and ignorant expectations. ) The second problem is that the concept of "total destruction" and the harming of civilians has never been an acceptable approach to war. It is uncivilized and should never be considered, unless it is the only option to avoid imminent destruction. War should be the last option and total destruction of civilians should be the last option of the last option.

We firebombed Tokyo, Yokuska, Dresden, etc, nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of civilians has been an acceptable approach to war. Sadly enough.

If civilians never paid a price for war, war would never end.

You can't fight them all and win them all!

Battling in too many fronts like Iraq and Afghanistan are sure to bring disasters!

Who cares?

These days Sunni oil rich Saudi Arabia and their Arab League, oil companies and lobbyists have started their seventh century desert dances on Syria and Iran!

You see: as per many paid pipers like Bushes, McCains and others they are the latest dances.

Even the Jewish lobby in the US agrees with the Saudis.

So battle in Syria and Iran!

You see: there are still many employed in the US. So more can be brought to streets.

The difference is that the Taliban believe they're carrying out certain actions as a form of religious duty whereas the American soldier seems to have walked into a bunch of civilian homes with the intention of murdering them on principle.

Yes, I realize how stupid that sounds b/c the Taliban's actions are often quite brutal and tantamount to murder in a number of cases. However, the important aspect between the two is how the public views said actions and in this case they might as well be night and day.

Sono, the only difference is that we expect American Soldiers to be disiplined and not do mass murder. With the Taliban, WE EXPECT them to do mass murder, so when they do murder people, well...it is just another boring report. Happens all the time type of response. This is SO MUCH more interesting when we have a troop go nuts.

Obama should step down..the rules of engagement provide the taliban a distinct advantage over our troops...we should not be surprised that a man who must stand like a sitting duck and be shot at by taliban fighters should snap and totally go off. This incident is the direct result of Obama trying to pacify muslims at the expense of American lives.

Interesting, so we should be a mandatory military country (Communist, Basic Police State, ah heck, dictatorship) which is you preference, all because an American flag burning country still ruled by the Taliban spats propaganda while President of our country kisses behinds while apologizing to the enemy.

The historic design of American military forces was to have a relatively small professional cadre on which a larger volunteer/conscript army could be quickly enlarged/created. It actually worked a lot better than people imagines, allowing the government to maintain a smaller military as a standing army and then rapidly expand it in time of war. But somehow the efficiencies were forgotten when we decided to have an extremely high-tech, extremely expensive, standing army made up of "professionals" with no possibility if enlargment via conscription.

We now have a huge military that is expensive, but tired and worn out. Its troops are at the breaking point with morale at a lower point that German soldiers on the Eastern Front after Stalingrad (often used as the gold standard for low morale.) Its equipment is long overdue for refurbishment or replacement but there is no money to do so.

In Vietnam, young men were only subject to serve one 12-month tour. Only a handful of people were ever required to do more and these were for very specific individual reasons. But today's environment is continuous deployments with intensive training while stateside between deployments. I was in Vietnam 67-68 and lost friends there. It was hard to realize that we lost that one and that politicians used the lives of young men to further their political lies. How hard is it for these young men to know that we lost in Iraq and are badly losing in Afghanistan?

And we are fighting our wars on credit with the Americans at home having no skin in the game. Even in "good wars" such as WWII, soldiers seldom get the empathy they deserve, but as Reagan said of Vietnam vets when cutting VA funding, "Losers should not be rewarded." The vets from Iraq and Afghanistan will find that they get little better treatment than did Korean War and Vietnam vets.

There is a lot of opinion among vets that wars should not be fought by "professionals" but rather by ordinary Americans with a serious interest in standing up for their country. But that would preclude wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, wouldn't it?

Chris- you are right on, along with Joe, for the most part, but the problem with the "national service" aspect of things is that the liberals would have to delay their educations in sociology, philosophy, and English lit, so it will never fly. Mummy and daddy, who fund them, would never stand for it either.

They'd also have to tacitly admit the America IS the greatest country in the world (1,000,000 immigrants a year agree...) so that aspect would hinder their "aim for the bottom" mentality, where anything goes, as long as they agree with it, doesn't interfere with their Prius payments, and teeing up at the club.

Think about it - you have to have some pride in your nation to stand up for it, and they don't. We are always wrong. Always.

I keep forgetting to add that if the Afghanis think WE are bad, then they should get used to it, because their buddies in the Taliban and Al-queda have plans for them that are MUCH, MUCH worse....those will be our fault too, wait and see.

People who do not want to save themselves can be helped just so much.

Mathuin: Bingo! Winner winner chicken dinner.....

@mathuin - Did you say, "arrived" in their country? More like, "invaded" their country! They don't want us there! One of my sons did two tours of that country -- he says they hate us and want us out!

These civilians have no more to do with Bin Laden hiding out in their country, than you have to do with the US soldier who went on this murderous rampage against unarmed women and children!

No way, you can justify this --- no way!

Muslims are less than crap. Muslims deserve the same respect I give to the soil I just walked on. They kill each other, they kill every non-Muslim they get the opportunity to and never, not even once, does a Muslim get up and scream that these terrorists are not Muslims and not doing what the Quran (I never can figure out how to spell that piece of sh&t voodoo-cult classic) says. They are all therefore as guilty as the guy driving the getaway car; end of story.

I beg to differ. The military is more than capable. It is the politicians and citizenry of the USA whom are incapable of winning wars?

The military is really not capable of fighting asymetric war, it takes very smart people who do not make mistakes to do a good job at this. We make mistakes regularly and often. Throwing power at a problem is not the answer although it is what we seem to do every time.

There's no winning this war. Tally-whackers and muslim extemeists are like cockroaches, been around for a long time and you can't kill them all... they keep coming back. An occassional fumagation using airstrikes is the answer... boots on the ground won't work because the locals won't unite and fight for their freedom... they want to live in the 6th century so be it.

This stopped being a war a long time ago. It is currently a police action and we should get our military out. We were justified in invading Afghanistan - they gave safe harbor and comfort to our enemies - Osama and the Taliban. Mission accomplished - time to go home.

JOE- the last time we really threw any military power at anybody was WWII - I get where you are coming from, but after WWII the liberals / communists got WAY too much influence in the government, and set up a system where we have to feel guilty about thing we try to do to save people. Hence these endless wars.

The libs never allow the military to fight - our Rules of Engagement- while the enemy has none. Then people wonder why we can never win. It's pretty simple.

Wrong it was a massacre. A soldier kill 16 unarmed civilians in their homes while they were likely sleeping. How is that not a massacre?

diana --i remember the life magazine photos of the massacre --i wondered at the time --how does anyone murder a child? what depths of hell must their minds be experiencing to be able to murder an innocent child. knowing that war will inevitably bring such suffering and misery why do we go to war?

granny22: Unfortunately, we go to war because it is political. It serves a great monetary purpose. At 9/11 they attacked us. We went to war in a country (Iraq) that had nothing to do with that attack. Many lives were lost on both sides for political and monetary purposes. We chased Osama Bin Laden into Afghanistan and finally killed him HOWEVER we are still there. They are not a threat to our land. We need to get out now but you will see the arms of the military are not willing to let loose of the power no matter how many die in the process. Those that die are expendable us or them. The big boys don't care. They didn't care in Vietnam and they don't care in Afghanistan. As far as being able to kill babies and children you will find that they always had an excuse in Vietnam. They were all the enemy even if they were newborns. In Afghanistan they are sleeping children and STILL they kill them. If history serves the powerful big boys will wait out the wrath of the population but they will find a way to wiggle out of this one too. I DO feel sorry for his family and the people he killed. But history is not our friend in this situation. Justice will always be elusive because the ones who are REALLY at fault here will never be tested.

@Diana, Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan, where he had been living for some time - not Afghanistan.

They get it drilled into their brain that every Vietnamese person, or every Afghani person in this case, is the enemy. It is due in part to weak minded people, but also due to the fact that we shouldn't be over there in the first place. The soldier(s) who did this are as much to blame as those who propagate and profit from our war efforts.

It was horrible...but at the same time, the VK sent their children out with bombs in Coke cans to give our soldiers, blowing them both up...they didnt care about their own children. I'm in no way defending what they did! That was another war that should have never happened....

Well said.

<sarcasm> Yes, and all this gives us right to kill them...yay, we are civilized, they are not.

So, lets go out and kill them because they are going to die anyways. </sarcasm>

I am still trying to understand your logic Cheryl

were they really "civilians" as reported by the media or is this just more propaganda put out by the so called "media"?? gotta love how its a huge story when so called "civilians" are shot or korans burned but its little more than a blurb when American soldiers are blown up or shot

Cherryll

You're putting things in Wrong prospectives.

Wrong is Wrong,Murder is Murder,All proprietors must be brought to face Justice .Period.

If this the way, you and others alike had been thinking!, No wonder, US should forever be on this pile-up deep @!$%#!

Cherryll

Who cares IF the rape happened in your Home?

Who cares IF the rapist his own brother?

Who Cares If the Sister is Murderer?

Who cares IF the Mother is Jews, Muslim or Christian?

Who Cares IF the Father is Dont Care Anything?

As far Im concerns None that those thing DOES not happened at my Watch Home And It didn't Abuse the Public Tax Payer's Money .Other than that Who Cares?

dissapointed,

soldiers are expected to die in war, civilians are not. How many times must this be repeated? Are you saying that covering our soldiers deaths should be more important then covering the deaths of Afghan civilians at the hands of our soldiers?

@Cheryl

Muslim culture is not something you can understand by comparing it to the rest of the world, except maybe North Korea. The peoples of the Middle East have been oppressed and repressed for much of their history by theocratic dictatorships. They have no freedom of religion, they have no freedom of speech, they have no freedom to privacy, and the for sure are not treated as equals by their regimes. Their society is shades of a darker color as ours was for minorities back in the 18th century and still is somewhat like our society where Gays and Muslims here in America are concerned, to a point obviously in modern times since they do have most of the same liberties as everyone else.

The people of the ME cannot speak their minds, they cannot argue against their Government because to do so likely means they disappear, maybe their entire family depending on what has been said. Many would rather live as ideological slaves then to fight for their freedoms. That changed in quite a few countries last year, but the forces that placed them in that situation still have much hold over the entire region.

Those that have been some what liberated from their previous style of living are not used to it, generations have lived like sheep but now they have a chance to live as the herder and they will take time to adjust.

The main point is though that we are still in their country, in Afghanistan, for no logical reason. We beat back Al-Qaeda and killed Bin Laden. What reason could we possibly have for staying there? We should have pulled out in May of last year like we pulled out of Iraq. Instead we are still there trying to control these people, trying to force democracy on them. All that is required of us is to show them how to achieve a democracy and what it would be like for them to have one; putting one in place is their decision, not ours. If they want to return to a theocratic dictatorship and it is the will of the majority of their country then they should be allowed to because it was their decision.

We have played politics in the ME before and every time any government we help setup becomes a failure because they devolve into tyrannies: Mubarak "won" each election for over 40 years in Egypt, Assad is killing thousands of his own citizens instead of giving up his power, Karzai is a puppet for the Taliban peddling a false democracy (this is worse then a dictatorship), look to other countries where we setup governments such as the Us sanctioned Coup in South Vietnam and the government we installed that lead to the Vietnamese war. Every time we force our way of life onto another country it ends up being a miserable failure, have you ever wondered why that is?

It is not a complicated answer, it is because after thousands of years of living in the way that they have they do not want to change, even in the Mid East where atrocities happen daily they are used to it, desensitized by their common occurrence. Yet to change their way of live would mean to change how they have lived for generations.

If someone came up to you and said that the US had to change into a dictatorship because it was best for this country what would your response be? Now put yourself in the shoes of an Afghan who has live their entire life under the iron thumb of a dictator, who does not have the ability to think freely about politics anymore because they have been brainwashed by years of harsh punishment of detractors and ask that same question but change dictatorship to democracy.

They well and truly do not know any better and it takes much pressure to get them to fight back against their government, to get them to be willing to die to achieve freedom from the current regime. Politics in the Middle East is never black and white but millions of shades of grey.

What happened is sad, but war is hell. If your going to fight with the likes of Afghans you have to kill everything thing, and America doesn't have the guts to fight a battle like that, and that's why we can't and never will win. Look how they fight, they hide bombs, weapons in Hospitals, Churches, Schools (while children are there) they strap bombs on children, so I don't understand why we Americans are in jaw dropping awe. The serviceman just fought fire with fire, and the truth is, thats the only way this war will be won.

The Truth Hurts!

CherylLM

Too bad this "mourning and anger" doesn't take place when 3000 innocent Americans are murdered...

Wait just a minute. Mourning and anger is all we've heard for the last 10 years. I'm not saying it wasn't called for, but WTF? I hear mourning and anger in your post right now.

What? You mean mourning and anger from the Muslim World?

Okay, I can name many Islamic leaders who came out and condemned the attack on the US on Sep 11 including, believe it or not, Ayatollah Khamenei. The jubilation in the Muslim world was far from universal.

We Americans, for the most part, are all appalled at the treatment of women by the Taliban and the actions of many tribal leaders in Afghanistan and Pakistan. but none of this diminishes the murder of this family. And one reason it doesn't is because it is unrelated. If you are going to say that all Muslims are guilty of being at war with America and its allies, then logic says you must also say all Christians are guilty of murdering Dr. George Tiller.

If you must judge people, do it on a case by case basis.

Great question. Exaclty what my daughter asked me (Whom are we fighting in Afghanistan?) and I had no answer.

Good questions, another good question is how come it has taken 10 years. Another VietNam

As for 911, the government & warlords sure did a good job on bluffing the US Citizens due to loss & fear. If we are there to take out the enemy then let our military do its job, it we are there because those in power are this trying to force the country to adapt to western ways & democracy then we shouldn't have gone in the first place. We to stop to all people from the ME traveling to our country or in our country & pull all troops from Afghanistan. Time to protect our own boarder & take care of our people.

This is a huge mistake for Obama to continue this war.

Our military is not even under control.

* They set off this debacle by burning Korans.

* Afghan soldiers responded with assassination of two of our troops.

* And now a US Sargent has committed a cold blooded massacre.

* There have been photographs of groups of US troops sporting SS symbols.

* And now one Marine has released a video calling the President of the United States - the enemy.

Why can't Obama see where this is headed?

Stop this war and bring these troops home now!!!!

Would you give him as much thanks if this hadn't have happened or would you have been one of the blind people walking our streets indifferent to the individual soldiers and sailors over there and what they have to endure everyday? I am not condoning what he did but I am not going to condemn him either. You, I, we have no idea as to the conditions over there or what he went though before he snapped. If you think you can / could do better, put on a uniform. If not, close your mouth with comments like this jack@ss!!

Ah, Durka Durka Durka.