This is very likely a case of Sunni on Shiite violence, very common in the Muslim world and now happening in western countries too.

If this guy had of been in a cave somewhere preaching his "hate and jihad" he might not have gotten hurt in that terrible, backward nation!

Why not start it from Mecca and Medina.

Muslims in non-Muslim nations are a curse on the society and a nation. They slowly bring down whatever they touch!

Look at the Muslim nations themselves!

Didn't they say the same thing about the Jews and the Gypsies?

Hard to feel bad about this as I recall the muslims killing Coptic Christians and bombing and burning thier churches in Baghdad and again in Cairo. I think the death toll in four attacks was well over 150 people!

That was Fats Domino

First of all, Christians in Iraq aren't Coptic they are mostly Catholic. And, what you don't hear about is after the Massacre in Egypt was thousands of Muslims volunteering to be human shields, so Coptics could celebrate Christmas in Egypt.

A the risk of sounding like an idiot...wtf is an imam and why again am I supposed to care? How is it that a story about this wouldn't include a definition of an imam, but rather it assumes it is so common that everyone knows? For those who will respond and say "Google it, I will and I was simply making a point...derp)

An Imam is an Islamic holy man, much like a priest.

If this guy had of been in a cave somewhere preaching his "hate and jihad" he might not have gotten hurt in that terrible, backward nation!

Hey there Tex, Last time I looked Belgium was in Europe. Just about over yonder from France.

In post # 1.2 I speculated (with good reason) that this was probably Sunni on Shiite violence, common in the Muslim world.

In post 1.4, Stonedog retorts:

More likely some 'western' whackjob feeding off all the anti muslim hate and thinking what he did was good.

Well, who is right? I did some more digging and found a Belgian account with much more information than msnbc's "lite" coverage. Sure enough, looks to be Sunni on Shiite violence as I said:

An axe-wielding arsonist burst into a Shiite Belgian mosque Monday, killing the imam and destroying much of the building in an attack local Muslims tipped as the work of Sunni extremists.
Police were unable to immediately name the suspect as he lacked identity papers, but authorities said the man described himself as a Muslim born in 1978. Authorities are investigating his motives and whether he had accomplices.
Azzedine Laghmich, an official at the mosque, told AFP the attacker was "a Salafist," who sprayed petrol inside the mosque before setting it alight and shouting Sunni slogans on his way out -- cries related to the conflict in Syria.

Source: http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/axe-wielding-arsonist-kills-imam-in-brussels-mosque_214307.html

Can't say it didn't cross my mind because it did. Adam, thanks for doing the homework for us. ☺

It could be the job of a Sunni Islamic radical or terrorist!

Hey chefaz, good morning to you, and thanks. Nice to see you again my friend.

Does anyone think that if the perpetrator had been an indigenous "white" guy that msnbc would have still not bothered to report that fact? There would be WWIII headlines on msnbc if the perp was a "white" Belgian. But because it was a Muslim, msnbc is as quiet as a mouse over it. Wouldn't want to give a mistaken impression that Muslims are more likely than others to commit religious violence like this, right?

And what about all those oh-so-holy korans that were utterly destroyed in this fully intentional, premeditated firebomb attack. Will there be worldwide riots and murders by Muslims "protesting" the desecration? Somehow I doubt it. That kind of outrage and aggression is reserved for the filthy kuffar (Non-muslims).

Adam: Sunni Muslims, especially belonging to the extremist Sunni Saudi Salaffi and Wahhabi are doing these acts all over the world.

They just even can tolerate Assad, belonging to a different sect than Sunni!

Adam: Sunni Muslims, especially belonging to the extremist Sunni Saudi Salaffi and Wahhabi are doing these acts all over the world.

Jonathan, I made that same point in post # 1.2

The next step for msnbc is to take this story out of the regular news rotation asap now that it's been shown to be an Islamic Hate Crime, not the hoped-for "white" Islamophobic, and/or Christian perpetrator.

More likely some 'western' whackjob feeding off all the anti muslim hate and thinking what he did was good.

Of which there seem to be more than a fair number here today on this thread.

Jack-1522032 Yeah, it is hard to feel bad isn't it; I also remember all those Christians starting wars, from the Crusades to WWII, exterminating entire Native American nations, trafficking with Black slaves and many more criminal acts.

To justify current crimes because of what some of your people did earlier, is just plain stupid.

Although the article seems to imply that the Christmas attack was some how related, I don't see the connection.

The attacker in that was not Muslim and the attacks were not religiously motivated. The attacker was a criminal on the verge of going back to jail who had a grudge against society. (Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/8956132/Liege-attacks-Belgian-gunman-Nordine-Amrani-had-grudge-against-society.html)

For those of you who don't care to read that article, I'll quote the relevant paragraph:

Miss Amrani, the lawyer, dismissed any possible terrorist motives for the attack. "He did not feel at all Moroccan. He did not speak a word of Arabic and was not Muslim. What he said is that he felt a Belgian," she said. "He was crazy about weapons but as a collector. He felt he had not had much luck in life and felt unfairly treated by the courts. This was a 'ras-le-bol' of a tormented soul: estranged from justice, and against society."

Through Iraqi stage managed wars, Sunni Sauds and other ME rich bigoted beasts made windfall profits.

They funded their versions of Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques all over the world. They also financed the Islamic radicals and terrorists liberally.

How many mosques/peace centers were there in the non-Muslim world before 1991 and look at how many are there?

These hate preaching and killer training centers should have no place in non-Muslim nations.

If non-Muslims can't even go to Mecca/Medina, let these "love and peace" get out of our nations!

What do you mean "Our countries?" BTW, it is only Mecca that Non Mulsims can't enter. They haven't banned their whole countries.

Maybe we shouldn't let them come to New York City, especially after what they did there.

ageofreason99: What did "they" do ?

Please tell me, what did this muslim Indonesian family do in NY ? What about these muslim Turks ? Oh, how about these muslim Indians ? Maybe these Senegalese muslims ?

Oh right, 1 billion people have to take responsibility for the acts of 19 murderers.

So tell me, YOU are personally responsible for the illegal invasion and destruction of an entire arab country(Iraq) right ? I guess you deserve to be put on death row for such a crime, that's a whole lot of innocent people killed you know, a lot more than on 9/11

raddave: Muslims could not save their Mecca/Medina and their ruler Saudi King with 5000 princes and princesses from Saddam.

Why is it that the shameless and cowards, especially Sunni Saudi rulers, ask the US soldiers without Bibles to save their holy places and their guardians?

Using Iraqi wars and choking oil supplies, the same Sunni Saudi beasts manipulated oil prices to as high as $140.00 and made windfall profits.

The ungrateful Saudi seventh century bigoted Sunni beasts funded Islamic radicals and terrorists, Salaffi and Wahhabi versions all over the world.

Can the world have bigger examples of cowards, shameless and ungrateful people on earth?

@Jonathan: You think muslims ever needed to "save" Mecca/Medina from Saddam ?

You kind of forgot that Saddam himself was muslim, and he certainly never had any intention of damaging Mecca/Medina, he had absolutely no interest in turning the entire muslim world against him.

As for being cowards/ungrateful, well, do we need to talk about the US ? How they go around the planet, ruin other countries lives (overthrow democratically elected governments in South America, Iran, ... invade Grenada, Panama, Iraq without reason, ...) and then dare calling themselves the "best nation on earth" ? You're really just a bunch of arrogant @!$%#s.

Michael: You people not only do beastly actions and these days can write some regular crap as spins!

You people are seventh century beasts and real b****ds.

Who does not know that Saddam was a Muslim? In the early days, he was more of a socialist like Assad!

Your Saudis could not dislodge 500 Shiites from Mecca/Medina!

In Syria, one Assad is sending your Sunni Saudi beasts down the tubes!

What garbage are you writing making use of all the facilities in a non-Muslim democratic nation?

Can a non-Muslim do these in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and other nations?

Why don't you people go back to your Muslim nations?

@Jonathan: What a moron you are. Saddam wasn't a muslim but a socialist ? Like, you can't be a muslim AND a socialist ?

Haven't you learned the difference between a religion and a political affiliation ? Did you even finish high-school ?

As for writing garbage, the reality is that everything I said is true, backed by facts that anyone can check.

Your comments on the other hand, don't contain anything useful, they're just full of insults and hate. I'd gladly point that the useless piece of garbage here is thus you.

Really, your parents should have aborted you, what a waste of air and food you have been.

Pure naked violence has settled more issues throughout history than any other method. Just ask Hitler since you decided to bring him up. MAN IS VIOLENT BY NATURE!! Get used to it. You wanting to live in your fairytale world where everone gets along isn't going to cut it. Take off the gloves and quit farting around with these islamic A--holes. No matter how much you try to appease them, they will not quit until you, me, and everyone else has been forced to convert to their unholy religion. I am not a religious person so I am not espousing one over the other. But any set of beliefs that call for the killing, bombing, maiming and so on in the name of your deity is not fit to lick the sweat from my armpits. That goes for ANY religion. muhammad can blow me. I did not capitalize his name as he is not worth it. I do not think this world will ever truly be at peace because man is too hung up on trying to control what other people think, feel, do, say, or believe. I will tell you this though, it could be a lot better if the islamic religion did not exist.

Are you serious Steve? Are you even aware of what Muslims are doing around the world and the genocide they've (or you've?) been committing? I feel bad a man has died, but why are there 1/2 million Muslims in Belgium now? They are really racking up the numbers. And before you go pulling out the Hitler stuff, you might want to look at who the real modern day nazis, bent on taking over the world and intolerant, are. I'll give you a hint. It starts with an M.

Hell, in hindsight, this world could be much better if there was no religion at all. It would be one less thing for us to kill each other over.

unbelievable, 500,000 in a county of 11 million isn't even 5% of the population.

raddave: If they form five percent and above of the population, it will be worse and fast march towards ruins (Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq and more)!

The same was said about Jews and Gypsies, Mexicans, blacks. Something about those browned skinned people scares you, don't it?

"Random violence only begets more random violence." Absolutely right. Too bad the Muslims didn't consider that before they began their terrorist activities. Now they get to reap what they sewed. Payback's a bitch ain't it. Any Imam who fails to take a strong, loud, public stance condemning terrorism, condemning radical Islam, is at the very least a terrorist co-conspiritor. They get zero sympathy. The holy war has been declared by the muslims. What do you think the word Jihad means? That's not an English nor Dutch expression, and it's a bit late to wish it away. The end game is strictly up to the Muslims. They can have peace if they want, but they don't. They've vowed the death of all Christians and Jews, every single one.

So, as a Christian, do you denounce Christian terorism? If not, then you are terrorist co-conspirator. Do you know what Jihad means? It means to strive or to struggle. It does not mean "holy war." And no, Ed, Muslims have not vowed the death of all Christians and Jews. They consider Christians and Jews to be Children of Abraham and Children of the Book. BTW, it was Muslims who protected Jews against "Christians" When the latter evicted the former from Europe.

raddave: Jews and gypsies did not form a major portion of world population.

Muslims form a high percentage of liabilities and curses to varying degrees in many non-Muslim nations.

In some nations they form as much as 40 percent and those nations are verge of civil wars.

If Islam is so good and its followers have some normal human values and senses, why are they fighting among themselves as in Pakistan, Iraq, Bahrain, Syria, Yemen and many Muslim nations.

In Pakistan, the Shiites mosques are bombed on Fridays during prayers and then even the hospitals they are being treated are being bombed.

In Iraq, Shiites pilgrims to Karbala are bombed!

Do you people, by any stretch of imagination call them as humans?

@Jonathan: If christianity is so good and its followers have some normal values and senses, why are they fighting among themselves as in Northern Ireland, Burundi, Rwanda, Congo, Ivory Coast, Colombia, ... ?

Or maybe you can ask yourself why muslims don't shoot at each other in Indonesia (or right, the world's most populous muslim country is peaceful !), Malaysia, Senegal, Morroco, ...

Maybe it's time you stop being such an arrogant prick and realize that muslims aren't any worse or better than others.

Michael: That is the problem with Muslims. They don't want to even admit their problems.

The nations you have mentioned are most corrupt as Muslims are their in huge numbers.

Why is it that Muslims have problems with most of the non-Muslims (Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and others) and why are they in their nations?

However much dirt you sweep under the carpet with unique arrogance and beastly actions, Muslims have beaten all world records including in telling lies!

Your post is another proof that Muslims don't want to change with the times from their seventh century desert mindset!

@Jonathan: You are a real moron.

There aren't any high numbers of muslims in Rwanda, Burundi, Colombia, Ireland, Congo, ... You just are a completely uneducated retard who doesn't know anything about the world.

Maybe you should also start learning to spell, you would look less like an idiot.

Next step would be to learn about history, which shows christians and jews living among muslims in peace and security for centuries while at the same time jews and muslims were being slaughtered among christians.

But then, if real facts were of interest to you, you wouldn't be spitting all these hateful comments. You really are just an animal incapable of thinking like a human being and more interested in biting randomly.

I pity you, your parents must probably be begging the planet for forgiveness, they now realize abortion would have been the right choice.

Michael: Here we go!

Like other typical half-educated Muslim liabilities to societies and curses on earth, you traitor assume that others are like you.

For you people killings by rapes, murders, genocides, sectarian wars like Shiites vs Sunnis would have been the right thing.

You, greedy beasts, invent hatreds by inventing "infidels" and "jihad".

Don't try to fool too much and end up as an Islamic heroin addict idiot!

What can we expect from the followers of Mohammad biggest sexual maniac and liability himself?

Don't try to be too smart! Days of likes of you in non-Muslim nations are numbered!

@Jonathan: As usual,and not surprising for an uneducated moron like you, there's absolutely nothing useful in your comment, just hatred. There isn't a simple fact.

It's really sad to see a low-life like you. Your life must be so miserable, probably no friends, a @!$%#ty job, the realization that your life is a waste, that you're not good for anything.

While at the same time I'm highly educated, the people around me love me, I am a productive member of societty, and I have a salary that's probably 5-6 times higher than yours...

Life sucks doesn't it ? I pity you

Burn qurans, not people. Fight Islam, not Muslims.

Preach that to the muslims

The only way you can truly win a war is if you get unconditional surrender. I think we all know how that will be accomplished with the Muslins.

Can anyone give contributions of Muslims in a non-Muslim nation?

Start from the US.

I could travel very freely in the US.

After the Muslims, especially Pakis started flowing in from different directions, even travel has become a torture!

@Jonathan: Oh I don't know, how about

- the Khan Academy, that gives free education to the entire world

- the many muslim athletes that represent their country in France, Germany, etc...

- Anousheh Ansari, of the Ansari prize, that started the whole private quest to space with the Ansari X Prize

- Ahmed Zewail, an american egyptian, who also happens to be the 1999 laureate of the Nobel prize in chemistry

etc...

You're just blinded by your hate of muslims, you are pathetic and a shame to this country.

Michael: You are a disgrace and liability to this country due to your narrow minded blood sucking seventh century Islamic desert mindset!

You can't even accept realities!

You are worse and totally igorant and blinded by faith in a pedophile’s religion.

@ Michael: How do you know that the Kahn Academy guy is a Muslim? From watching the 60 Minutes piece that featured him I would say he is a completely secular guy of (probably) Iranian descent. Maybe middle eastern descent. But Musim? That would depend on whether he is an active believer or not. Same point to the others you mention.

A better approach is to evaluate whether ISLAM is more of a postiive, progressive, peaceful force in the world today, or a negative, regressive, violence-inspiring force. I think the evidence is pretty clearly in on that question, unfortunately.

"Kahn" sounds like a Sihk name. If that is the case they are not treated well by Islam. (We have alot of sihk immegrants and they have told me all about it) He could work with that, ya know ..."Knowledge will conquer the World", etc.

To answer Jonathan. "Giving to Charity" is a pillar of Islam but that money stays within the Muslim community. Some of it is used for "perpetuating the faith" so in that regard you may recieve the benefits of muslim charity in the form of "outreach": soft and subtle ala Muslim Brotherhood... a mosque in the 911-dhimmihood, or if you live in Israel or the tubes trains in London or Madrid well you get the idea.

@Jonathan: You asked for examples, I gave them to you. You don't like being wrong ? Though luck, get a brain and an education, you'll spew less hatred and idiocies then !

@Adam44: He's as muslim as HE needs to be. He's not totally secular and his culture & upbringing typically have had an effect on him, in the same way that many americans are secular yet have a christian background and influence.

Islam is not worse than Christianity. You tend to forget that there are 1 billion muslims on this planet and that many of the conflicts in these areas have truly nothing to do with religion.

The revolts in Tunisia, Egypt, Lybia, Yemen, Syria,... were absolutely not religious, they were based on economic and political reasons, the israeli-palestinian conflict is not a religious conflict, it's a nationalistic one (the PLO has many christian members for example), etc...

@Adam44: He's as muslim as HE needs to be. He's not totally secular and his culture & upbringing typically have had an effect on him, in the same way that many americans are secular yet have a christian background and influence.

You know him? If so, please clarify his ethnicity for the discussion. Also, the way you say that he is "...not totally secular..." tells me that if you do know him then he is secular. Does he go to mosque regularly? Does he pray prostrate five times per day? Or are saying that he is just Muslim in the sense that he was born into a Muslim family or Muslim country and therefore has some Muslim identity by way of that, even though he is not personally religious in his everyday life?

Islam is not worse than Christianity.

Well, I am not a Christian but in terms of the number of atrocities committed in the nsame of religion, Islam is far, far worse than any other creed on planet earth. It's just a fact. I wish it were not true too but unfortunately wishful thinking won't make it any better or reduce the vast number of violent attacks made in the name of Islam. Just declaiming "Islam is not worse than Christianity," does not make it so. Reality has to agree with you too. It doesn't.

You tend to forget that there are 1 billion muslims on this planet and that many of the conflicts in these areas have truly nothing to do with religion.

Not all Muslims in the world are violent and/or intolerant, true. Some conflicts with/among Muslims do not center on religion, true. However, a lot of the conflicts do have to do with religion. Islam is not just 'a part of' a true believing Muslim's life, or at least it is not supposed to be just a part. It is supposed to be complete submission and obediance to what the Qur'an and other Islamic texts tell them to do.

The revolts in Tunisia, Egypt, Lybia, Yemen, Syria,... were absolutely not religious...

Went ahead and dd some look-up on Salman Kahn myself (of the Kahn Academy).

Here is his Wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Khan_(educator)

His parents were both from or near Bangladesh. That could mean a Muslim background but there is not hint of an Islamic upbringing. And of course he was born in America. In fact, neither the word "Muslim" nor "Islam" is found anywhere on the whole page. There is nothing at all to suggest, as you claim MIchael, that Salman Kahn of the Kahn Academy is in the least bit Muslim. If you have contrary knowledge then come out with it.

Doesn't seem to be Sikh either.

- Anousheh Ansari, of the Ansari prize, that started the whole private quest to space with the Ansari X Prize

The only thing explicitly Muslim about this accomplished woman seems to be that she is from Iran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anousheh_Ansari

- Ahmed Zewail, an american egyptian, who also happens to be the 1999 laureate of the Nobel prize in chemistry

Nor anything about Ahmed for that matter. Interestingly, President Obama mentions Muslims in this first paragraph...

In his June 4, 2009 speech at Cairo University, US President Barack Obama announced a new Science Envoy program as part of a "new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world." In January 2010, Ahmed Zewail, Elias Zerhouni, and Bruce Alberts became the first US science envoys to Islam, visiting Muslim-majority countries from North Africa to Southeast Asia.[6]

...but Ahmed Zewail only mentions Egypt in the second.

When asked about rumors that he might contest the 2011 Egyptian presidential election, Ahmed Zewail said: "I am a frank man... I have no political ambition, as I have stressed repeatedly that I only want to serve Egypt in the field of science and die as a scientist."[7]

"I have stressed repeatedly that I only want to serve Egypt in the field of science and die as a scientist."[7]

One would think that a Muslim of any devotion at all would say something about wanting to serve Allah, Islam, or Muslims. Any one out of three would do. But no, "Allah, Islam, and Muslims" were explicitly left out of the equation. That should tell you something Michael.

Ethnicity and nationlity does not necessarily equal religion. You have falsely conflated them and drawn the wrong conclusion accordingly.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zewail

@Adam44: Maybe you should stop applying your bias towards muslims to these people, don't you think ?

Why should a muslim be obliged to mention Allah/Islam/Muslims ? What in your head makes you think people can't be muslims and keep their religion to themselves ?

That's what your problem is, you built in your head a view of what a muslim is, and whoever doesn't fit that is not muslim.

The reality is that you do not get to define what a muslim is, each muslims gets to define that for himself. In the exact same way christians get to define themselves.

Michael, You were the one who put the label "Muslim" on the distinguished scientists and others you listed, not me. Yet you've shown not one single shred of evidence that they are Muslims except for your own projection that anyone from an Islamic majority country or Muslim-sounding last name or appearance must by definition be a Muslim. Not so. Your working assumption for that list was a fallacy, just admit it.

Why should a muslim be obliged to mention Allah/Islam/Muslims?

No obligation, of course, but the chemist went out of his way to mention Egypt and Science as two outstanding loyalties. Strikes me as a case of the dog that didn't bark if you get my point.

What in your head makes you think people can't be muslims and keep their religion to themselves ?

What makes you think that that's what I think. You were the one who came up with the list. What makes YOU think that anyone on that list IS a Muslim?

Ahmed Zewail: Just read his autobiography, he mentions Islam in there and being part of the islamic world

Anousheh Ansari : Just look for "first muslim woman in space" and you'll get the answer

Ahmed Zewail: Just read his autobiography, he mentions Islam in there and being part of the islamic world

How about a direct quote from you?

Anousheh Ansari : Just look for "first muslim woman in space" and you'll get the answer

"First Muslim woman in space" sounds like a marketing slogan. She may be a religious woman. Then again she might not be. Impossible to tell on he evidence you've provided so far, i.e. none.

The Israelis just have'nt taken off the gloves. Do you think that kissing muslim ass will help? NO! They will take that as sign of weakness and try harder to subjugate you into their religion. Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler with his ass kissing. Remember the "Peace in our time" speech? See how well that worked out. The world went to war for 6 years. We took the gloves off and opened a case of WHOOP ASS!!! History has a way of repeating itself.

Rat? Your name is appropriate. Muslims don't want to subjigate you into their relgion. Espcially if you are a Christian or Jew.

@ Raddave, have you ever read the Quran? I have. I love to read. I will read almost anything. A lot of the Quran parallels the Bible, not that I believe either of them. But, the Quran espouses violence toward all non believers,( infidels). The Bible is not much better but at least it states that non believers will answer to God at their time of judgement. It abhors suicide whereas Islam rejoices in it if you take non believers with you in jihad. All religions have been grossly construed to fit someones point of view in the attempt to control lives. Maybe if the Muslim world was a tad bit more literate they could read the Quran for themselves instead of being indoctrinated by a few people whom hate western culture. Then they could make up their own minds as free willed people should. You, I, and they know right from wrong. You make the choice.

And by the way, the nickname Ratranger was something I picked up in the Army. Defending your right to think and do what you want as a free individual. I do not belittle you due to your call sign, I would expect the same courtesy.

Then the hatred and violence will never end.

Rat, i earned the nickname "rad" by defending your right to think and do what you want as an individual. The Qu'ran does not glorify suicide either. It is a sin, just like in Christianity. Christians and Jews aren't considered "Non-Believers" either in the Qu'ran. And, if you do not speak Arabic, you have never read the Qu'ran.

You do realize that it has been translated into other langauges just as the Bible has been from it's original Hebrew? As a matter of fact you can buy it at Barnes and Noble. As I have stated before, I am not religious, I just like to read. But, I read very well and am good at reading comprehension. What I have read from their own book tells me all I need to know about Islam.

@ratranger127: You are an idiot and have absolutely no clue about Islam.

Real facts backed by history : Christians and jews have lived among muslims for more than 1000 years without being mass murdered or forced to convert.

Real facts backed by history : When christians took back Spain from muslims, jews left with the muslims, they preferred to be with them than to be with the christians.

Real facts backed by history : Only one country in Europe saw its jewish population grow during World War 2. Which one ? Albania, Europe's only muslim country back then. Albanians protected their jewish population so well that it grew.

Then what the f--k is their problem now? Just kill everyone whom is not Islamic or will not convert? Did their thinking or tactics suddenly change from being peaceful to murderous? At least the Christians have tried to go from murderous to peaceful. Seem to me that Islam is taking a step in the wrong direction. I could not give a sh-t about any religion, they are all for weak minded individuals who can't think for themselves. If you want to kill yourselves for your petty beliefs, then so be it. When you start killing others because of your sacred tenets, then I have an extreme problem with you. As I have stated before, it is my opinion that religion has been the most devastating invention in mans history.

After the birth of Islamic cult, the contributions by its followers have been negative in all places they lived and occupied.

If Muslim nations are so good, why are they in non-Muslim nations?

Can they not be honest even in such small things?

If a right to left book is the guide, then it is no wonder that most of its followers think/imagine upside down and argue/assume that others are wrong!

So true Johnathan. Simple. Life for Jews was not as rosy as Muslims would like you to believe. Under the very best circumstances Jews and Christians were and are second class citizens and are to be continually reminded of that status. The Koran, Hadiths, suna are all unanimously clear on that point. Jews -stateless since 130BCE are always vunerable to the whims of of any society they have resided. Lately they've had 63 sorta good years in Israel and America.

If Muslim nations are so good, why are they in non-Muslim nations?

Good point. Can we add that:

The goal of Islam goes beyond "making the gospel available" so that all ears may hear it and adopting a "live and let live" attitude. That is the Christian method asn outlook. On the other hand it is the duty of every Muslim for work towards the establishment of a world wide caliphate under sharia.

Ixor Kleb: I could write more.

I do not believe in any religious opium much. I am an ex-commie.

Even people like I are sick and tired of these incorrigble liabilities, curses, traitors, liers, and name the qualities these Islamic beasts don't have.

Only they wear human dresses and many are worse than the beasts!

Slowly most non-Muslims including atheists are finding no alternatives but to conclude: don't permit a single Muslim curse in a non-Muslim nation.

Right on. Jonathan

I judge them by the fruit they bear while under attack. With that being said you certainly have displayed your charactor.

The religion(s) I appreciate are the one(s) that have the wisdom and courteous regard to other members of the planet by presuming they don't need conversion etc.

raddave

Rat? Your name is appropriate. Muslims don't want to subjigate you into their relgion. Espcially if you are a Christian or Jew.

• #8.2 - Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:56 PM PDT

Raddave,

Thanks for your opinion. Help me out. Please, as you have implied that you are an authority on the topic. I have a question for you to answer:

What does the Koran state concerning this issue?

Thanks

@Ixor Kleb: Centuries of jews and christians leaving among muslims without being forced to convert or being attacked is more than sufficient to prove that you are wrong.

@Michael,

For Jews and Christians there is -- under Shariah Law -- a provision where they ["people of the book"] are not forced to convert but are to be subjugated to an inferior status and pay a burdensome tax called "jizya" and "feel themselves subdued" as the Qur'an puts it. So yes, survival as a separate religious identity was possible, but never easy, and to say they were never attacked is simply naive. There were waves of persecutions and violence against Christians and Jews under Muslim rule throrughout Islamic history.

Read: "The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims" by Dr. Andrew Bostom if you really want to know more about the subject.

Here's the book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Legacy-Jihad-Islamic-Non-Muslims/dp/1591026024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331903782&sr=8-1

@Adam44: Feel free to give me a comparison of how non-christians were treated in christian land during the same periods.

Jews followed muslims on their way out of Spain, and there was a very good reason for this : they wanted to stay alive.

Both groups evolved over centuries, christians living on muslim land had absolutely no issues up to a couple decades ago, no tax to pay, no subduing, no attacks.

@Adam44: Feel free to give me a comparison of how non-christians were treated in christian land during the same periods.

Probably similar in many situations.

Jews followed muslims on their way out of Spain, and there was a very good reason for this : they wanted to stay alive.

It's never a good idea to linger in a war zone. Why was it a war zone? Who invaded whom to start the conflict there Michael?

Both groups evolved over centuries, christians living on muslim land had absolutely no issues up to a couple decades ago, no tax to pay, no subduing, no attacks.

Absolutely false. It's true that the provisions of Shariah were sometimes enforced and sometimes not, but they were always on the books, ready for action and 'divinely' sanctioned.

Again, read the book I referenced above and it will disabuse you of the wishful thinking you are engaging in.

Deep Toasty, really deep man.

All this over Bronze Age fairy tales...

Close Toasty, but only one fairy tale is involved; Islam.

Which changes what, exactly?

The assumption that two fairy tales were involved here.

It's just another in a long line of incidents, Adam.

Well, it wouldn't be "just another incident" in our mainstream media had it been an indigenous Belgian who was the perpetrator. But somehow because it was a Muslim there is very little value in it for our media elites and the story is all but buried now. Why is that Toasty?

Because it's the evil media Bilderberg black helicopter overlords trying to @!$%# with you. You specifically, Adam.

Nope, it has nothing to do with me Toasty. Nice juvenile try though.

The answer is that western leftist and liberal elites go out of their way to shield, make excuses for, separate out, and try to exonerate Islam from the tsunami of crimes it directly inspires in the world every day by "good" Muslims (those who submit to Islam literally, the way it demands) doing their best to make Islam supreme, over and above all others, just as the Qur'an and other Islamic "holy" texts commands them to do.

The Million Dollar Mystery is WHY they [Western leftist/liberal elites] continue to run interference for the most regressive, repressive, intolerant, misogynist, homophobic, bigoted, and violent creed on planet earth: Islam. For that matter, why do you, Toasty?

All I did was capture a small but clear example of it at work in how this firebombing in Belgium was handled and quickly buried, based almost entirely on who commited the crime.

It's quite a phenomenon, and quite deplorable.

But go ahead, Toasty, keep making fun of it all. Innocent people are being murdered every single day all over the world in the name of Islam, but that's not your problem. . . . . Yet.

Yeah dominate with less than 5% of the population. Get real

The pilgrims who came over on the Mayflower only number 121. Look how well that worked out for the Native Americans already here. Its' a snowball effect if you let it get out of control. I'll bet they wish they had'nt helped them with that Thankgiving brunch.

rat, you are another xenophobe. Muslims have been living in Europe for decades now and aren't dominating it.

Raddave,

Just shut up!

You've no clue about Europe and Belgian invasion by the muslims.

Just shut up!

Luckyluke, unlike you, I lived for 9 years in Europe and am married to European woman, so it is you who have no clue about Europe and Beglium and the non-invasion by the muslims. You only know what fellow xenophobes have told you.

You f..g Muslim, I'm Belgian and hate your religion that brought MY country down!

Ben ja een klootzak?

Non. mais toi tu es plus qu'un sac de couilles: tu es juste un sale arabe!

Si tu comprends le francais, pauvre minable!

Oh that's funny, a frenchman calling someone else "dirty" You are right, I am half Arabic. However, I am not muslim (David isn't really a good Muslim name). And, you are right, I don't understand French, I refused to learn it. But my wife is fluent.

Rad, please allow me to answer luckyass over here: #1 Rad t'as repondu en Flammand qui est originaire de belgique et pas le Francais. #2 Tu es un sale racist. Au lieu de baiser les hommes qui ne vas jamais aider ta sale race to ce procreer, essayez avec les femmes mais vous ne pourrez jamais battre les Musulmans en nombre. Relax espece d'encule.

Rad to make you feel better he got his change back and some ;) he is not even from Belgium, he is french.

Comme tes freres ont l'habitude de dire: encule de ta race!

Raddave, are you the only one whom thinks they have ever lived in a foriegn country? 21 years in the Army. I was stationed in Germany 3 times for a total of 11 years. My wife is German, me having met and married her in 1989. She and her family have seen what the muslims have done to her nation. It is not a pretty site. If you want to emigrate for a better way of life, then bravo, I hope you succede. But if you come here, there or wherever and try to turn it into the same @!$%#hole you just left, then why did you leave your own country? Go back and continue your miserable existence. This is our culture and way of life. We did not invite you here to change it as you see fit. If you are so blind to that fact or you feel the need to be an apologist for muslims, then I truly feel pity for you.

Rat,

You summed it up the right way.

Go Army!

Fils de pute. LOL very easy to talk @!$%# behind a computer(keyboard commando). Coward just like your racist kind as usual lolll. BY the way say hi to all the Arabs taking over Belgium ;) And you are not even from Belgium, you don't even speak Flammand you speak French. LOLLL. Good night a$$hole. I got to split. More important things to do than talking to a racist biggot...

OH what a rat race LOLL (Bob Marley)

Rat, I spent six of my 9 years in Germany, the other three in the Netherlands. Muslims have NOT done anything to make Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands or any other country in Europe worse. The great thing about America is that we are made up of many different cultures and ways of life.

500,000 in a small country like Belgium is Alot! And it continues to grow, just like the rest of Europe. And it is intentional! It is a way of taking over! In Africa, Asia and the ME violence is used to make everyone submit. For now in the West it is immigration. World domination is the intention. That is the point. And it is not racist to not want your own culture to be stolen and your own race made submissive and worse in your own home. Why are Arabs migrating into Europe in droves? And you call people racist? How do non-Muslims, non-Arabs fair in Muslim dominated countries? Very BADLY!

Radrave is a f...g Muslim!

Go eff yourself lamescot. they said the same thing in Europe about Jews in the 14th and 15th Century. Come back when you can join the 21st.

no lucky, I am not a member of any cult.

You're just pathetic: vote O!

And you are full of hate Lucky, vote Santorum!

ABO: Anybody But Obama!

I doubt and hope you don't have the right to vote in this great country: AMERICA!

I am a U.S. citizen, so yeah I do have the right to vote. And since you are "in this great country" it kinda blows your claim to be Belgium.

It's "Belgian" not "Belgium", a...hole! And, yes, I'm in Brussels, Belgium and I'm daily suffering the presence of your Muslims brothers!

So, again, just shut it up, Muslim.

Shut the hell up lucky. Racist piece of @!$%#. Thank God we don't have that many of you here in the US. Stay in brussels frenchman and don't come here. Encule...

Touché! I feel sooooo good!

Have a good night, low life!

You're soooo right!

Thank you from Brussels, Muslim capital of Belgium!

Muslims, Sam are the most racist people of all and that is the root of many of these problems.

You are absolutely correct!!! Afghanistan is one thing, if you believe that they helped or harbored people that attacked us on 9/11. Iraq is a totally different animal. There was positively no reason for us to invade that country. WMDs my ass! They were in no shape to cause or be a threat to anyone in that region, let alone the U.S. That was just Bushs' way of trying to cement his legacy. Well, he did that in spades. I left 2 years of my life over their for people whom hate us and would wipe us off the planet if they could. We have made some mistakes there and in Afghanistan, but on the whole we are trying to help them achieve a better life. They do not want it. They are stuck in the stone age and will be for the forseeable future. They are like child molesters IMO. You can't help someone whom does'nt want to be helped.

See post # 21.2 for the answer.

Sunnis and Shiites have hated each other since Moham died.

Sam sez:

Wow so much islamophobia. I love how some jumped to pin the problem on Sunni/Shiite rivalry. The editor wrote the article in bias way making sure to point out it was a Shiite mosque. #1 the Sunni/Shiite problem only started with Iraq's war, it is not widespread. I bet you when more details come out, it will be a terrorist from the McVeigh clan (don't like to call religion names) or israel (zionism)...

You're going to lose that bet Sam. I was the one who speculated that it was Sunni on Shiite violence in post #3 of this thread. I've since explored the various news links some more and found the following on a Belgian news site Expatica dot com:

An axe-wielding arsonist burst into a Shiite Belgian mosque Monday, killing the imam and destroying much of the building in an attack local Muslims tipped as the work of Sunni extremists.
Police were unable to immediately name the suspect as he lacked identity papers, but authorities said the man described himself as a Muslim born in 1978. Authorities are investigating his motives and whether he had accomplices.
Azzedine Laghmich, an official at the mosque, told AFP the attacker was "a Salafist," who sprayed petrol inside the mosque before setting it alight and shouting Sunni slogans on his way out -- cries related to the conflict in Syria.

Source: http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/axe-wielding-arsonist-kills-imam-in-brussels-mosque_214307.html

Still think it is a figment of that faux construct, "Islamophobia," or will you admit that YOU are the one on a wild goose chase?

Fick dich.

and f--k you too.

How can we condemn Moslem attacks on westerners in Moslem countries when we cheer when something like this happens?

This was Muslim on Muslim violence. Sunni on Shiite from Belgian reports (see post # 21.2). This kind of thing is endemic in the Muslim world. Now it is happening more and more often in the western world too.

Old Vet - These posts mirror the political temper abroad in the country today. It seems impossible to get into any sort of discussion without it becoming polarized to the place of lunacy. A man died as a result of smoke inhalation during an arson in a foreign country. That's the meat of the article. We don't know what his religious politics were. It's a bad way to die; a friend died in a house fire and my prayer is that it was quick. I hope the same for the deceased here. Anyone who reads my posts knows I am not a fan of Islam but not all that practice it are evil. Unless we can make that logic leap we will slip even closer to a time when Islam and the Western World come into conflict. If that happens there will be atrocities enough to satisfy even the most rabid poster here.