If the US Administration were ever looking for an excuse to cut everyone's losses, NOW is the time to give the Afghan government just what they want. Just YANK everyone and all the equipment. If the Administration really wanted, it could be done in ten days. Of course, every Westerner would have to leave, including the NGO's

Then, if whoever is trying to run Afghanistan afterwards (Karzai's throat will be the first to be cut) wants Western aid, the answer will be . . . we'll think about it.

No need to show pictures from the 15th century....

Sadly, this soldier snapped and killed innocents. Too many deployments and a brain injury that was apparently never addressed. He should be brought back and placed in a mental hospital. As to the Taliban, once we leave (and we will leave) they will take back all that was fought for and it will be business as usual, they will oppress the citizenry and cultivate poppies. Karzai will hope to remain in power but as soon as the last troops leave, he will be butchered as a collaborationist and then the Chinese will break their teeth on Afghanistan.

@sgtStryker: Really? That's your answer?

Has one Afghan ever murdered any U.S. soldiers?

Did we blame every Afghan for the deeds of one?

Leave them to their tribes, goats and heroin.

As to the Taliban, once we leave (and we will leave) they will take back all that was fought for and it will be business as usual, they will oppress the citizenry

Fine with me. They deserve each other.

Send a message to the President and Congress, bring our troops home. Go to the link, sign the petition, show our soldiers and their families you care.

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-killing-americans-in-afghanistan

Please share the link on Facebook and Twitter.

The guy didn't come over a mass murderer. This is what happens when you don't fight wars the right way. The right way is petro, opium fields, food. IN that order until they cry uncle and agree to terms. Not some silly nation building. It's like having candian troops in chicago.

At least the people are finally being united under a common cause.

ORB1943: We damn well better say absolutely NO NO NO to any aid in the future, period, end of story! While we are at it No No No to Pakistan also! In case no one has figured it out yet this is an area of the world that is a big hole into which we pour lives, money and aid for no return. Whoever the big boys are that THINK they will get a return on their investments they should be REQUIRED to work and live in that hell hole and risk THEIR OWN LIVES BEFORE ANY AID IS GIVEN TO THESE PEOPLE! First and foremost we need TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE and 'yank' is a very good term to use in this case. Grab your weapons and duffle bags and blow EVERYTHING UP before you leave. Give them NOTHING which is what they had before we got there and they were happy that way.

It's time to declare 'mission accomplished' and pull out of Afghan-land. We've done all we can do to help them fend off terrorists and, frankly, these 5th century goal-herders are going to end up falling prey to them no matter what. Come home and secure our borders and make our country safer to live in here and let them take care of their own business. The longer the US stays there the worse this is going to get!

We are SOOOOOO over this war.

Well since this now behind us.

Let's invade Iran and repeat the same f*ckups all over again.

Get the troops home they are tired and have done their job.

Unlike the government whom are sitting in their warm, cozy, safe and well paid environment and are totally out of touch with reality of the ordinary US citizens and where the Repubs keep yelling about for more war Iran.

This is classic combat fatigue. This soldier has been on too many deployments, seen too many brothers in arms killed, and seen too much violence.

Really? So we have an Iraqi terrorist who became a terrorist when some US soldier accidentally killed his brother, we should worry about his combat fatigue? Or should we treat him as a terrorist?

In fact, this guy has it easier than the post-war terrorists in Iraq right now. He is a volunteer. They didn't ask to be invaded.

We are a nation of laws. None of us is above the law. This is what we tell the world, and this is our opportunity to show that we obey our own laws. That is one good thing that can come out of this horrible tragedy.

Worse "Massacres" happen in Afghanistan almost every day, why do they only get outraged when an American is responsible?

If their country wasn't a @!$%#hole in the firstplace, we wouldn't need to be there.

"Jihad (holy war) is the only way to get the invading Americans out of Afghanistan," one banner read, according to the newspaper

Just how stupid is the average Afghanistan..............stop shooting at us act like everything is all right and we will pull out..........then you can go back to killing, maiming, raping, brutalizing your own people again just like old times.

Why are we still there? Im confused about what the mission is there?

Of course we are not as 'sensitive' as we should be. They treat their own people like toilet paper.

You can't give someone democracy... You have to fight for it yourself.

It's time to leave that cesspool.

How many car bombs, killings of our soldiers, killing of their women and children have these people commited? Countless right? Why all the fuss about this?

We insist that ME folks turn their terrorists over to us all the time when they commit atrocities against Americans. Why can't we return the favor? Uniform or not this guy is essentially a terrorist now.

You can't give someone democracy... You have to fight for it yourself.

Someone needs to read the history books again. The only way America gained independence was from foreign aid. Revolutions without any kind of foreign aide whatsoever tend to be few and far between.

So, what are we doing to help syria???

PJuliet..."This brings me back to my first paragraph, pray tell how many more lives we can afford to lose now that the reprisals have begun. Cheney? Koch? Limbaugh? Fox? Anyone?"

Anyone? How about Obama. He's the one who campaigned on getting out of Afghanistan (and Iraq) right away. If he had kept his promise, we wouldn't be there for this to happen.

DocHolliday-2979123

I wish our News people would stop giving these people front page news!

For the last couple of months it's been riots after riots after riots, c'mon folks!

How many car bombs, killings of our soldiers, killing of their women and children have these people commited? Countless right? Why all the fuss about this?

Our military has apologized, the guy will be held accountable....let's move on and get the hell outta there. Matter of fact the soldier probably did this after years of watching his buddies getting killed by these bastards and then escape justice....

Justice was coming at some point or another for a soldier who has witnessed senseless killings of his buddies, ya gotta give him a break...the women and children killed was a bad thing though, but some of the men killed were probably terrorists....

It's not our country. It's not our region of the world. Move on? How about moving out of their lives and leave them alone? As a veteran, I'm embarrassed by the actions of our military. The acts of this single soldier will cost the lives of other soldiers.

Not so much.

Did Obama condemn the Afghan killings of 6 of our servicemen as strongly as he condemned this tragic incident? We seem to have a double standard.

Let's review: Prisoners were using the Koran to pass messages to each other, a violation of the holy book of Koran. Our guys caught them and confiscated the books, which was clearly our right. They got accidentally burned. BFD. The Afghans themselves violated the Koran by using it for non religious purposes.

The Afghans go idiotic over a minor incident and kill at least 6 of our guys and even more of their own. I did not hear nearly enough protesting by our president and generals when that happened.

It is truly sad about this man that apparently snapped. Please understand the difference. We will try him and likely execute him. When was the last time you heard of an Iraq, Iran, Afghan, or a Russian soldier tried and punished for his crimes? The answer is never.

The difference between the USA and the rest of the world ( Britian and Canada likely excepted) is we will publicly get to the bottom of this and punish those responsible. Probably this guy's CO's career is likely over as well.

I would like to see one of two things happen:1) Get the Hell out of there now

2) Build a big ass strategic air base which we will own and use for purposes of the USA in defending interests in a volatile region. If they don't like it, too bad. This is what we should have done in Iraq.

"hs321

"Anyone? How about Obama. He's the one who campaigned on getting out of Afghanistan (and Iraq) right away. If he had kept his promise, we wouldn't be there for this to happen."

Actually not true.

Obama campaigned that Afghanistan was the "right" war to be fighting.

Did Obama condemn the Afghan killings of 6 of our servicemen as strongly as he condemned this tragic incident? We seem to have a double standard.

Servicemen. Not civilians, women and children. Try and understand the difference here.

And killing Americans is as serious as killing Afghans.

Since a bunch of Taliban live in that village (proven by their attacks), we should bomb the crap out of the village. Then we should consider giving that soldier a medal for bringing out the Taliban. Then call it a day.

Gotnorice

Worse "Massacres" happen in Afghanistan almost every day, why do they only get outraged when an American is responsible?

If their country wasn't a @!$%#hole in the firstplace, we wouldn't need to be there.

Two questions for you:
1. Because massacres happen does that justify the actions of a US Soldier killing children in cold blood?
2. Are you suggesting we NEED to occupy every @!$%#hole in the world?
What are you actually trying to say?

interested observer

Since a bunch of Taliban live in that village (proven by their attacks), we should bomb the crap out of the village. Then we should consider giving that soldier a medal for bringing out the Taliban. Then call it a day.

Really? Villagers angry at the murder of their children by an occupying force make them terrorists? Tell me observer...how would you react? If you tell me you would do nothing...I suggest you grow a set.

It's not like there'll ever be peace in Afghanistan. Even if they are able to become truly democratic our CIA will come in and intentionally fudge things up like they did in Pakistan.

Umm, how many drone strikes have killed women and children? How many bombs and missiles have killed women and children? Now, a soldier goes batsh!t crazy, commits a massacre and women and children are killed. It would seem that the only way to avoid such tragedies is to not be there in the first place. Note as well that Homeland Security and police forces are now using drones to 'surveil' US citizens on US soil. That should make us all safer, right?

I do not blame the Afghan people for wanting the staff sergeant to be tried THERE, we would want the same thing! Americans would be screaming for the same thing if he had killed 16 people (12 were women and children) HERE!

We need to train Afghan soldiers to fight the Taliban, NOT American soldiers! It is time to bring our soldiers home and let the middle east live the way they want, we can't fix our own problems...how can we fix anyone else's??

Svenolafson

And killing Americans is as serious as killing Afghans.

Flip the whole story around and try to see it. Imagine that Afghanistan invaded the US because there are armed training camps for militants in several states. In retaliation for the death of their soldiers, the Afghanis murder a couple of American families, (children included). How's that square in the "we're the greatest" world of yours?

This brings me back to my first paragraph, pray tell how many more lives we can afford to lose now that the reprisals have begun. Cheney? Koch? Limbaugh? Fox? Anyone?

PJuliett, You forgot to include the Apologizer in Chief, he's in charge now and can pull out the troops out anytime he wants to like he should have started to last summer.

tad - pull out the troops out anytime he wants to like he should have started to last summer.

You seem to have forgotten who got us into this mess in the first place: the disastrous Bush administration, from which we will not recover in this lifetime.

He's an ass for even saying that kind of thing, as if he believes he has to tell the American people that innocent Afgans have as much value as U.S. citizens. Sounds kind of discriminating to me.

What happens when their soldiers, our allies go around killing our troops? i don't see anyone crying. Sad for the loss of life, specially children but our mission ended there when we got Osama. These people don't deserve our treasure and people so they can have a 21st century country, let them rot or have the Chinese feed them!!!

Looks like 1/5 of New Yorkesteiner is here! The soldier was not combat fatigue neither a psychopath, simply a human affected by all the media babble owned by big mouths of Zion! And look who will get the blame, the 98%.

Get out NOW!!!!! not in 2013 or 2014!!!!!! takes 6 weeks to get out!!!!

Byron, have you served your Country? Were you in combat? Have you been shot at? Curious as to your answers and will definitely check back to see if you answered.

Given this administrations attitude about killing Americans (see Holders remarks) Just say they were terrorists and and you can kill them at will.

John-2819179

You're a pathetic piece of cow dung!! Crawl back under your rock.

@ Mozzie: If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the....? Say it with me: the problem.

You are so convinced that this is all Bush's fault and yet you would be pounding your fists on the table crying "unfair" if we did nothing after Sept 11th. Wow. There are way too many people like you around. Lots of air upstairs and no attic.

DocHolliday-2979123

How many car bombs, killings of our soldiers, killing of their women and children have these people commited? Countless right? Why all the fuss about this?

I wonder if it had been your precious toddler's head exploded by a bullet fired from a gun held by a foreign entity in your own home that you might see that as just a bit more of a fuss than you do at this moment. Even if for no other reason that you are now responsible for cleaning up the mess in your living room; floors, walls and yes, even ceilings. When put into perspective like that, you should know in that moment - you're either a human being -- or you're not.

You seem to have forgotten who got us into this mess in the first place: the disastrous Bush administration, from which we will not recover in this lifetime.

You seem to forget Congress voted for this war. You also seem to forget Obama doubled the amount of troops in Afghanistan when he took office.

@mozzie, when all else fails just blame Bush when it's the Apologizer in Chief who initiated the 100,000 troop surge which still hasn't been withdrawn yet. Beating the Bush is no longer effective as Obama is doing a good job of defeating himself quite effectively.

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the....? Say it with me: the problem.

I always thought this expression was a clear indication of a closed mind. Still do.

It's time to leave!!!!! I don't care anymore about why we went there to begin with. Some speculate that it's all a big corporation conspiracy. Some forget that the Afghan government (Taliban) harbored those that masterminded 9-11. Some think it's just all GW's fault. Whatever!!!! ....I just don't care to hear anymore about what's been done and who's fault it might have been that we are there. It's just time to leave... and let these poor bastards wallow in their sh!thole of a country!!!! ....And Pakistan needs to be put on the Terrorist Harboring State list and be treated as such until they get control of the Northwest Tribal region.

He's an ass for even saying that kind of thing, as if he believes he has to tell the American people that innocent Afgans have as much value as U.S. citizens. Sounds kind of discriminating to me.

Considering some of the people on these boards seem to be rather enthusiastic about killing Afghans, I'd say that reminding them that the Afghans are still humans is entirely necessary.

Must be an election year this is all political rhetoric and doesn't need to be said it's a given.

Ron Paul - "Just bring them home. We just sent them in, we can just bring them home."

How quickly would you bring them home, Congressman Paul? "As soon as the ships could get there."

Dr. Paul will not quit telling the truth in the face of lies. He will not quit standing up for every Americans right to freedom and liberty under law. He will not quit in the face of being marginalized, ridiculed, smeared, patronized, criticized, demonized and called 'crazy' for his platform of commonsense and citizen's rights. And his supporters will not quit because they know he is the only candidate worthy of the presidency. They know that the status quo must be stopped. They know that we must return our government to its People. There is nothing more important than this opportunity to make our world over again. Truth is treason in the empire of lies. Peace. Liberty. Sound Money. Ron Paul 2012!

Disabled - you would be pounding your fists on the table crying "unfair" if we did nothing after Sept 11th.

How dare you. You have no idea how I think; therefore your assumptions about me are ludicrous. I happen to believe that in addition to lying to the American public, Bush did exactly the wrong thing in totally squandering the world's good will after the 9/11 event by seeking revenge. We would never be in the fiscal mess we are in today if he had not precipitated two pre-emptive, unjustified, and totally ill-conceived wars.

Thank you for reminding me why I ignore you - you have nothing to say that is worth listening to, troll.

Why are we still there? Im confused about what the mission is there?

The truth is, we want troops handy in Afghanistan in case we decide to invade Iran. Which of course would be monumentally stupid at this point. I hope this is one time Obama doesn't cave to GOP wishes.

Mozzie,

With respect, we don't need to assume how you think. You have displayed it over and over. Blame one person and forget the rest has seemed to be your theme.

Obama is just as guilty as anyone else for this war. He voted for it, and when he took office he increased the troop size in Afghanistan. He could of ended it by now but doesn't want to. Plain and simple.

What this Ssgt did was wrong by any standard,what Lt Callie did in Vietnam was wrong, but anyone suggesting we turn an American troop over to the enemy has never been in the Military and has no pride or honor of our Military. You would sentence this guy to torture and having his head sawed off while still alive by these barbarians.

He will be tried and convicted, sentenced to death by a military tribunal, as he should be as a US soldier under the uniform Code of Military Justice, and he will be put to death, not after 30 years of appeals and court proceedings as you are allowed, but very quickly.

Now I ask you what will happen to the surviving Afghan soldiers who killed US troops on a US base ?....not a GD thing, where is that justice, outrage, apology ?

I am sick to death of you ungrateful, gutless slugs who never served a day in your life to assure your freedom or the freedom of your own family passing judgement on men you know nothing about. You haven't walked in their shoes, held your buddy while he died, watched men shoot your friends and then drop their weapons so that you could not fire upon them under the current rules of engagement. When the enemy hides amongst the citizenship and is shielded by them, casualties will happen.

You want to talk about war and the warriors who fight it on todays battlefields under todays standards, grow a set, sign up and get an education as to what thats like, or shut the hell up !

Atrocities have happened in every war ever fought long before news coverage, that's right your Grandpa, daddy, Uncle, shot and killed unarmed enemy combatants, civilians died all across Europe, Asia, and Indonesia, you just never heard about it and they never talked about it....... understand this s&%t happens and everyone has his breaking point.

Bobby: If you already know how I think, why do you bother to read my posts?

Here's my question... If we were able to invade Afghanistan and overthrow the Taliban and chase them and Al-Qaida into Pakistan with less than 10,000 troops (I think it was actually closer to 5,000), then why the HECK do we need 100,000+ troops there now? Why not withdraw all troops and remind them that if they continue to be dumbazzes, we will be back?

when all else fails just blame Bush when it's the Apologizer in Chief who initiated the 100,000 troop surge which still hasn't been withdrawn yet. Beating the Bush is no longer effective as Obama is doing a good job of defeating himself quite effectively.

100,000 troop surge? Uh, no. Get your numbers correct at least, or fix your grammar; he approved around 12,000 additional troops, which brought the numbers up to 100,000.

"The new troop deployment is expected to include 8,000 Marines from Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, as well as 4,000 additional Army troops from Fort Lewis, Washington."

Mozzie - your posts are causing my BS meter to alarm. When we were attacked back in 2001, we should have waged 'all-out' war against the country that attacked us. The government in Afghanistan allowed and supported this attack.

We would have been in our rights to bomb this country back to the stone age (probably would not have put them back much). We still can do this - and we should. War is not a nice activity - the purpose is to make the other side suffer and die. We should do this with the least amount of danger for our side - meaning to bomb them into extinction until they (the Afghans) choose to rise up and overthrow their own leaders and Imams. We should not be in the business of nation-building.

The only way to win any war is to be meaner and tougher than the other side (follow the history of WWII and the Israeli wars as a guide). Anything else is just another vietnam. If you don't have the stomach to do it - then go back and hide behind your mothers apron and let the real adults deal with it.

Atrocities happen in war - live with it. I am not condoning atrocities - just smart (and old & experienced) to know that we are not helping be groveling to the other side. The old canard "war is hell" is true, and whining about it does not change the fact. If you don't like the results of a war - don't enter any. And if you are so afraid to deal with the consequences of war - too bad so sad - and (again) go hide behind your mother's apron.

The soldier who commited the massacre was previously diagnosed with a severe brain injury. The officer who declared this soldier fit for duty should be charged with murder. And the military should immediately reacess any soldier who has suffered a head injury and reassign them stateside. Also if we are so limited on combat soldiers that we need to send injured combat veterans back to the battlefield it is time to re-institute the draft. The Commander in Chief is liable in this incident also for allowing a policy of having combat injured soldiers who have lingering effects sent back to the battlefield. The POTUS need not apoligize for me as an American citizen I am not at fault for what happened, but he is and he should apologize for himself.

So equal?

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said the death penalty is possible if the soldier is convicted.

let me think did he say the same thing about the fort hood shooting? NOPE political BS

This could be just what Obama needed. Since he's completely in over his head with respect to foreign policy, this could give him the excuse he needs to cut and run, after another round of profuse apologies, that is.

He can then turn his attentions to the task of imposing socialism on the people of the Untied States, which was his plan all along.

Barack Obama, destroying America…. One entitlement at a time.

President Barack Obama on Tuesday said he viewed the killing of 16 Afghan civilians, allegedly by a U.S. soldier, as seriously as if those killed had been Americans.

"The U.S. takes this as seriously as if it were our own citizens and our own children who were murdered," Obama said at the White House.

Ah, but he doesn’t think it’s serious that they killed 6 troops over the burning of the Quran and apologized to them for it??? His lack of leadership is astounding! Sorry, but those 6 WERE someone’s children that were MURDERED! No wonder why his approval rating just dropped AGAIN!

what is that icon , mozzie?

"OBAMA" Throw that word in any sentence and Americans divide faster than you can focus like a lazer.

I'm sorry, but some of you are absolutely no better than the terrorists our military is fighting. Trying to minimize the grotesque crimes this man has committed by summoning the spectres of other service men killed by other Afghan terrorists -- you should be ashamed. No, this cannot be excused because Afghan terrorists kill American servicemen. It is the same tactic that the Afghan terrorists use to justify killing Americans -- because some American servicemen have killed other Afghan people, they feel it is justified to kill other Americans. Where does it end? This man - crazy as he must have been to do this - killed mostly women and children in their homes. These are non-combatants, folks. What this man did with these murders cannot be justified by pointing your fingers at other bad guys who have done other bad stuff. I am sorry if you do not like it, but this man is guilty of unspeakable crimes and no form of "they started it" you can spout can ever make it okay what he did. If you feel that it does, then you are a hypocrite to ever critisize a terrorist again, because they use exactly the same reasoning to justify their actions. That argument only leads to more pain, more destruction, more death.

FED-UP

It is just another photo -op. Never mis an opportunity to apologize to muslims.

AMERICA didn't kill these innocent people...ONE lunatic killed them and ONE lunatic is apologizing

lolfattynerdswhoknew

In November 2009, US President Barack Obama announced the addition of some 30,000 troops to the more or less 68,000 US troops deployed in Afghanistan at the that time. This brings the total number of US troops to 100,000 by the start of 2010. The same fact has been acknowledged by the United Nations Security Council in January 2010 as well as US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at the International Conference on Afghanistan.

Mozzie,

In case you missed it the first time, I know how you think by reading your posts.

When I read the title of this article I actually thought that Obozo had finally grown a pair. Should have known better.

Killing Afghans is certainly much more important than them murdering us.

Obama said he was directing the Pentagon to do a very thorough investigation of the weekend killings. He said the inquiry would "follow the facts" wherever they lead, and that anyone found responsible would be prosecuted fully. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has said the death penalty is possible if the soldier is convicted.

And what was the punishment for murdering 6 of our troops? Oh that’s right……an apology for burning Quran’s that were filled with jihad messages scribbled in them by the muslim prisoners, therefore defiled by muslims and considered contraband!

I am a conservative republican, but if the President gets us out of all the wars he has put us in or kept us in, in the last 3 years, he has my vote. We cannot bomb our way to peace.

This man - crazy as he must have been to do this - killed mostly women and children in their homes.

I would think that you would be too after a 4^th tour of duty….3 tours of duty in Iraq and a head injury, but I don’t see you signing up for a tour of duty, you would rather sit here and judge him, to hell with innocent until proven guilty, which is OUR system of justice. Why not wait until ALL of the facts are in?

Afghanistan defeated the British, the Russians, and now Americans.

Will we ever learn from history?

Bart,

We were never there to conquer Afghanistan.

@American Citizen: the Om.

It's nice to hear that Obama approves of killing Afghans as much as he approves of killing Americans. By his standards, apparently, as long as they appear to be a threat, then, by all means, put a cap in their a$$.

Mozzie - In case you hadn't heard, Bush left office over 3 years ago. Can you please get over blaming him for everything? Our Peace Prize Winner in the White House promised to end this by now, so is it his fault? Since we were attacked by terrorists in 1993 (NYC), 1998 (US Embassy's) and 2000 (USS Cole) and DID NOTHING, should we blame Clinton for the events of 9/11? You will probably blame Regan since he went after terrorists in the 80's, but you'd be wrong.

Sounds to me like you're just looking to blame someone else so you can keep your head in the sand (or, possibly, a bodily orifice).

Earlier Tuesday thousands of people took to the streets in eastern Afghanistan to protest the killings, burning an effigy of Obama and calling for the killer to be tried in Afghanistan.

Demonstrators in the city of Jalalabad chanted "Death to America -- Death to Obama"

See his apologies mean NOTHING to them! It only shows his WEAKNESS!

"Make no mistake, we have a strategy that will allow us to responsibly wind down this war," Obama said.

How about responsibly very sooner than the end of 2014!!!

Bob - In case you hadn't heard, Bush left office over 3 years ago.

Asinine statement. Of course I knew. It was in all the papers.

Can you please get over blaming him for everything?

Why should I, and why do you care? The shoe fits--too well, as a matter of fact. I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I would think that you would be too after a 4^th tour of duty….3 tours of duty in Iraq and a head injury, but I don’t see you signing up for a tour of duty, you would rather sit here and judge him, to hell with innocent until proven guilty, which is OUR system of justice. Why not wait until ALL of the facts are in?

The sad joke is I don't recall nearly this many people demanding we give Private Manning the benefit of the doubt. I do recall a bunch of people insisting that we treat him like a terrorist for jeopardizing our soldiers, which is precisely what this clown did with his actions.

Mozzie, I don't like everything President Bush did either. I, like most all of us, supported his decision to invade and occupy Afghanistan. Iraq is a different story and out of scope for this argument. President Bush's decision to invade Afghanistan was correct. President Obama's decision to see it to conclusion was also correct. This is tragic, and maybe it is time to leave. I am just saying get over the President Bush bashing on Afghanistan. Take that Argument to an Iraq article.

Tom, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Secretary Panetta was not Sec Def at the time of the Fort Hood massacre. I think it was still Secretary Gates.

Bring all the troops home and deploy them on our southern border where they're needed.

This soldier snapped under the strain of combat and needs to be treated for this injury. In the mind of this brave solider, he was on another stressful mission to seek out and destroy the enemy where ever he may hide. It is NEVER acceptable to willingly and knowingly kill those that have done no harm. It is not acceptable to kill women and children as they sleep. Not all Afghans are an enemy or terrorist, but making that differentiation can be very dangerous for any soldier from any country in any war.

Gary 420... please cite a CREDIBLE source that confirms "Prisoners were using the Koran to pass messages to each other, a violation of the holy book of Koran.". I have heard so many Rush/Beck/Orielly sheeple say this without any corroboration. I am almost certian that if Rsuh/Beck/Orielly/Shammity said that the Brits were coming you would jump on a horse and try to be Paul Revere part deux.

How about the Washington post?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/5-us-troops-could-face-review-conflicting-reports-over-quran-burnings-at-base-in-afghanistan/2012/03/03/gIQADm1VoR_story.html

This soldier snapped under the strain of combat and needs to be treated for this injury. In the mind of this brave solider, he was on another stressful mission to seek out and destroy the enemy where ever he may hide. It is NEVER acceptable to willingly and knowingly kill those that have done no harm. It is not acceptable to kill women and children as they sleep.

Maybe we should wait for an actual psychiatrist to determine if he's mentally competent or not first? Some news article mentions head trauma and all of a sudden every internet poster who can mash words out on a keyboard is Doctor House.

I wish Dr. Cameron would come back, it's just not the same without her.

Mozzie:

While I agree with the fact that Bush decided to go in the first place, it's also a fact that Obama has kept us there. Do you agree with this or will it continue to be all Bush's fault moving forward too?

So, President Obama, let's get this straight: killing Afghans is the same as killing Americans. But indefinitely detaining Afghans in Gitmo is not the same as indefinitely detaining Americans in Gitmo?

All I'm asking is for some consistency. If we are going to have double-standards, that is fine. But at least keep the double-standards consistent.

@RwEvens

Really? Turn over the guy who did this and leave? You would turn over an American serviceman who had a head trauma and obviously snapped? Why was he there? Because we all (yes you too) put him there. Why did he receive his head injury? Because we all put him there. Why did he snap? Because we all put him there. But you want to turn over an American to a bunch of prehistoric animals and that's justice on your terms? I'll bet you're against capital punishment in this country but yeah lets just hand those animals one of our own. I'm good with leaving but man I'm glad I never had to fight side by side with your ass. I imagine "I've got your back" is a phrase that you have never faithfully uttered in your life. Should he stand a military trial and face the consequences? No doubt. But hand him over? That's something your president will probably want to do...in other words; it's cowardly.

What Should be said: "Hey sorry it happened, we're at war in your country and you guys sure don't mind our service men and women being killed trying to protect you. This S*&$ happens in war and this fruit loop will be dealt with accordingly. We're sorry for you losses, we'll do what we can to make amends with these families now back the hell off before we unleash a whole ward of these guys on your asses. Oh yeah, if one of our people get hit in retaliation we're opening up on every last one of you." Then as soon as someone is taken out we show them what American firepower can actually do...then we leave.

The whole underlying problem is that we are trying to fight wars in a politically correct manor, what a joke. It can not be effectively done, either go to war swiftly and with brute force or let them tear themselves apart and turn a blind eye. Either way it's ugly but with today's technology and our fighting superiority this type of crap shouldn't happen. But until we figure out that fighting a war is not a display of political correct diplomacy, it will continue to happen.

so the question has been asked,,"why are we still there?" The question should be "why were we there in the first place?"

Tom, this article states that the writings, according to afghan religious leader Maulvi Khaliq Dad, were note messages but rather names and dates of when they were captured. The article also states that 46 Qurans were "rescued" so why has the military not confiscated the books and shown the "messages" contained within? This all seems rather fishy and I am not sure what to believe. Anyone with any kind of sense would want more info rather than believing what is convenient for them to believe. Typical behavior of the stupid, ignorant and lazy is to come to a conclusion with only HALF of the facts.

While most are so fast to put the blame on this guy, stop and ask yourself one thing... where are all the men aged 16-35 in this and many other villages in that province? You go into these vilges and it's all kids and old people...hmmmm? Where are all the young men? It's not that difficult people, 1+1=2. Granted, the guy might have snapped, but the majority of these villages in Kandahar are Taliban sympathizers. Either by choice or by force. Waving at you and being somewhat civil in the front yard of their mud huts when you come in the village while their sons are burying IED's and setting up ambushes in the backyard.

But you want to turn over an American to a bunch of prehistoric animals and that's justice on your terms?

If an Afghan killed an American would you be fine if they were tried in a local Afghan court? Or would you want to drag them back to America to face charges here?

I thought so.

Sad part is we won't pull out. We're not fighting for democracy in another country. That's a convenient lie politicians came up with to hide the fact that it's all about money. War profiting is just greed. Simple as that they're all just wanting more money in their pockets.

FedupwithFed, you are probably the most levelheaded person posting here. You have my vote for President. People on here don't seem to understand, it is NOT ok to kill our soldiers just because they are soldiers just like it is NOT ok to kill innocent children. There is NO difference! They are clearly a primitive culture that is based on killing each other to reinforce their politics. We need to just leave now and in a few years our history books will talk about how they exterminated themselves. Problem solved.

Also, it still amazes me how much bickering amongst ourselves is being done on this forum. Finger pointing like school children. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by calling each other names? None of you are going to change anyone's mind any more than my post will but I am hoping that at least you will remember that we are all Americans. Act like it. Condemn the killings on both sides and push for an immediate withdrawl of our troops. Stand united for God's sake!

energizer.bunny.1237

Way to spin the tale on the donkey.

He said he took it as seriously as... then you run off with equal to.

How consistent can you get GW Bush had them put in Gitmo, BH Obama is keeping them in Gitmo.

Mossie, the fact that you are not the only one who thinks this way is obvious. There is much stupidity on the vine. I am guilty of it myself sometimes. However, when you continually look to blame Bush for what is now clearly Obama's war(he himself said it was the right war)and refuse to acknowledge the facts so obviously plain for anyone to see, you appear as what you are. Everyone knows how you think and what you think. Please continue to post your stupid drivel. I'm sure it makes you feel much better.

The heinous acts of this soldier aside (soldiers going postal on Middle East civilians is not new, unfortunately. Try him, convict him, inject him. Nuff said.), what is really getting under my skin in this story is the audacity of the Taliban to call this massacre "savage".... Pot paging Kettle, are you there Kettle?

The Afghan Taliban threatened on Tuesday to behead U.S. troops in revenge for the massacre.

So you are going to vow vengeance on an act that took 16 lives when you guys organized the massacre of 3,000 innocent people? You guys do realize that you are in no position to judge here, right? Or is it only okay to murder people when YOU do it?! "Hey, you can't shoot him, that's our job!"

I can understand the rage of normal civilians in this matter, because ultimately the citizens are not the reason why we invaded. The Taliban are, and they should be washing some of this blood off of their hands as well.

FedupwithFed,

Geez, some of your posts took the words right out of my keyboard:)

• if someone did this to my family - i would seek revenge too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
• get us out of afghanistan now!!! before more innocents are killed

As most on here agree this is bad, but it was ok for Obama to kill an American citizen that he said was a terrorist without due process, so how is that any different both are unjustified murders one committed by the president. So it is ok for Obama to kill and get away with it.

Bill1488

Where were you when common sense left?

One was a known terrorist, Obama had him killed, he didn't pull a trigger. The other killed innocent lives.

You've chosen to ignore your common sense to justify your politics.

Thanks Fedup and Leiya!

"Jihad (holy war) is the only way to get the invading Americans out of Afghanistan," one banner read, according to the newspaper.

Gee, the American muslims tell us that jihad is ones inner peace and how to live ones life, doing good to others…so which is it?

Let's see here, a little more Obama doublespeak?

Major Hasan massacred thirteen soldiers at Ft. Hood, he stood on a desk shouting 'Allah Akbhar' as he gunned down 13 and wounded 28 more. Somehow, though, his actions weren't classified as 'terrorism' but rather, referred to as 'work place violence.' Now they're going to hang the soldier in Afghanistan, try him over there and seek the death penalty and Hasan has languished in prison for years, been given medical aid and the best lawyers at taxpayer expense.

It would appear that the goal is not justice, but rather, playing to a Muslim audience at the expense of American citizens. The soldier's actions were as unconscionable as Hasan's, yet Hasan is cosseted, there is only a 'possibility' of a death sentence for him and this soldier will be hung and used as an example.

So sorry but you don't get to play doublespeak and hope to get away with it. Killing unarmed American servicemen is as horrific as killing women and children, howcome one gets tried in the US and the other gets to hang in Afghanistan? Think that will appease the Afghans? Guess again. Apologies, bending over backwards to kiss the rears of Taliban and ignoring the Americans murdered as a result of burning Korans, ignoring the current threat to behead servicemen, ignoring the prior beheadings, leaves a rather bad taste in one's mouth. Frankly, it reeks of hypocricy.

BobbyJonesBia: You missed the point by Bart... Brittan, Russia nor us were out to conquer Afgan. All 3 of us invaded Afgan for long term war. All 3 sustained severe damages, leaving the home countries' economys hollowed out... WE pretty much violated every rule of engagements according to Sun Tsu (Art of War).

FedupwithFed: Really? Weakness? Really? So exactly what do you know about Afgan culture? Only idiots apply their beliefs upon others. And out of stupidity do people believe idiots who applied their personal beliefs upon others. So which of the two catagories should we file you?

Bob-304573: Yes, most people know that President GW Bush left office 3 years ago. However, I think it is you who seem to forget who left the mess. We are the ones who chose to go after Bin Laden in this particular fashion. It was us who chose to go after Iraq for their Oil and their WMD. Yet you seem to have selective memory.

1993 World Trade Center Bombing: 4 were 1st convicted, another 2 were convicted later. 1 was deported to Jordan, 1 was never caught, but he appeared in IRAQ's prixon... There was a wide speculation that he was caught, but given to be imprisoned and tortured by Saddam (who had a reasonable relation with USA). Saddam was intollerant of Al Qaeda terrorism organization.

1998 (US Embassy's): This is the widely know events organized with Osamba Bin Laden's involvement. He was not the sole involvement, but in co-operation with other terroism groups. From know intellegence, Operation "Infinite Reach" was ordered to destroy Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden.

2000 (USS Cole): Sudanese govt is ordered to pay 8Million to the 17 dead sailors' familes. Of the 6 suspects, 1 was never caught, 1 was caught (but escaped prior to his execution) in Yemin. The other 4 are either dead or in Quantanemo.

mygirl1: What are you trying to say???? Muslim aren't Americans???? Boy, true color comes oozing out of ya... Americans killing Americans are as horrific as Americans killing non-Americans, non-Americans killing Americans and as non-Americans killing non-Americans. You reaction reminds me of people claiming President Obama's war on Christians in Africa when President Obama send in advisors to assist in capturing Koney (Warlard... yes, Koney, a warlord, went to Christian school)... So please show us how you're not a "you too..."

You can't impose democracy by force and call it democracy.

For those who have forgotten.

During Dec 2001, Bush Jr and the UK turned the Afghanistan 'Nation Building' to the UN and 52+other Countries...

It was OBAMA that DOUBLED the US Troop levels & then DOUBLED them again.While also placing his 'Hand Picked' Generals in charge of the operations. Doing this whilethe CIA was stating that there were less than 100+Al Quaida in Afghanistan...

While also CHANGING the US Policies on the use of 'Armed drones' by the CIA. Which has KILLED THOUSANDS of Innocents, if you read the Foreign Media, because the US Media seldom reports these...

While the US GROUND Troops are being held ACCOUNTABLE (as they should be). The CIA and the Military Officers who are also committing these KILLINGS are walking FREE...

The ULTIMATE responsibility rests with the POTUS...

Obama's direct actions have KILLED over TWICE the numbers of US Troops in Afghanistan during less than 2.5 years, than were killed by Bush in 8+years. Not counting the THOUSANDS of INNOCENTS killed by his Armed Drones...

The RETRIBUTION - 'Killings & Terrorist Acts' will be continuing for DECADES, against US Citizens and symbols of the USA...

Thank You - OBAMA...

Funny how the US Media is making a big deal about this incident. - But is saying almost NOTHING about the Bombing strike that was called against 6+children carrying firewood. Because the ground troops thought they were walking menacingly, toward their position...l

Or where NATO gunships killed 9+school children last year, when they were also collecting firewood.

The only survivor, Hemad, 11, said his mother had told him to go out with other boys to collect firewood because “the weather is very cold now.”

He was lucky as a tree uprooted by a rocket fire from one of the helicopters fell and covered him from the helicopter gunners. But others were not so lucky as they were shot dead one by one by the gunners of the NATO helicopters.

Earlier in February a NATO rocket attack had killed 65 civilians, including 40 children aged 13 and underin Kunar province.

Western forces are clearly safeguarding the lives of Afghans !!!

reference - http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8359162-nato-airstrike-kills-9-school-children-in-afghanistan

American military forces have perpetrated countless such atrocities in Afghanistan, although until recently these were categorized (and essentially dismissed) as unintentional errors: the incineration of an entire wedding party of dozens of people, “mistaken” as a Taliban convoy on the move; the killing of nine children gathering firewood, hit by a drone strike, “misidentified” as guerrilla infiltrators; dozens of bombing raids on Afghan villages where entire families have been exterminated, due to “poor targeting.”

Bob Woodward book on "Obama's Wars." His account of Mr. Biden's meeting with Afghanistan president Hamid Karzai in January 2009. According to Mr. Woodward, "Karzai's tone sharpened. Civilian casualties were a public matter. The Americans seemed to believe the death of, say, 30 Afghan villagers was insignificant." Mr. Biden finally suggested the U.S. "can and will do a better job on this." Then he threatened, "But if you don't want us, we're happy to leave. Just tell us."

PJuliett #1.5: … This brings me back to my first paragraph, pray tell how many more lives we can afford to lose now that the reprisals have begun. Cheney? Koch? Limbaugh? Fox? Anyone?

hs321’s response #1.28 “Anyone? How about Obama. He's the one who campaigned on …..”

Tad’s response #1.44 “You forgot to include the Apologizer in Chief, he's in charge now …..”

Dear hs321 and Tad, thank you for responding to my plea for “Anyone” to tell me how many more lives we can afford to lose.

I am sorry BUT your responses do not even attempt to answer my question. Instead you have just proven that you sleep with Karl Rove’s “Tactics For Effective Conservative Blogging” manual under your pillow.

Rove’s manual clearly describes conservative tactics in chapters to Engage, Entangle, Demoralize, Attack, Intimidate, Deceive, Claim patriotism, Demean, and Opportunity to insert catch phrases.

The manual ends with Rove’s postscript, “You will receive your daily list of talking points and topics that we want you to cover. Consistent, persistent repetition and inculcation will drive our talking points home and so will neuro-linguistic programming. Stick with it and our talking points will become truth. If they debunk your talking point, ignore it, and move on as if you didn't hear it.”

You can’t just follow Rove’s tactics by deflecting the real question and pointing your smelly finger elsewhere to put us off track.

C’mon, I dare you to check with our gallant troops families before you answer my question.

How many more lives can we afford to lose now that the reprisals have begun?

Bosslimo #1.113

Where were you when common sense left?One was a known terrorist, Obama had him killed, he didn't pull a trigger. The other killed innocent lives.You've chosen to ignore your common sense to justify your politics.

He was not convicted of being a terrorist; so no he was just suspected of being a terrorist. He was an American though and had rights under our constitution. Americans have rights under the constitution no matter what the president believe and yes Obama killed him as he is the only one that can give that order wake-up. If this mans rights can be taken by the almighty "Osama" I mean Obama than any of our rights can be taken. I love when Lib's find it ok to trample on someones civil rights because it fits how they believe; it is not ok to take a black mans civil rights just an Americans.

"A government big enough to give you everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...." Thomas Jefferson

@Mozzie: I find it funny that you call me a troll when you have tried to come back at almost everyone that called you out. I actually snickered a little. You see, I have actually served my country and became disabled while doing my job, which was a job that very few could or would do. I have been there and done that so please do not try and use your video game "war" experience to try and sound as if you have an educated view on what world events mean or who did what because your posts clearly read as someone that "has to be right" and goes after everyone else that does not agree with you.

Try to find a hobby and look deep into yourself and stop trying to lay blame on others. Solutions are better found that way.

Disabled: It's sad that you feel you have to put a judgement on someone you know nothing about. For the record, I have a distinguished career in the Navy, have never even been near a video game, and really do not have time for your BS. This is the end of this discussion.

Thurd: Apparently you missed the part about calling a man killing others in the name of Allah not a terrorist, but rather, a man engaged in 'work place violence.' That is a double standard. You rush to judgement, wanting to label me a racist etc. without either reading or comprehending my post. That, unfortunately, is rather typical.

mygirl1

He/she is just a troll. He/she hasn't an idea on how the world spins. He/she only speak from their little glass house's and can't stand ANYBODY that differs with their view on life. He/she constantly call NV'ers racist, bigot, etc., or they imply it with their cockamamie comments.

He/she is useless as a poster on NV.

BTW, I'm tired of typing 'he/she':)

Send me a note somtime.

mygirl: nope, I read your post. I stand by my original position. The Fort Hood shoot is to stand trial for the murders. His defense lawyer is likely taking the routes of mental condition and religious repression. Given the planning and the number of victims, it is very likely that that the military will seek death penalty. The current case is no different. Given the reported planning, the equipment used and the distance to the victims that it is also likely that that military may seek the death penalty.

SO WHAT IS THE HYPROCRACY. The hypocracy is you calling for hypocracy when the charges are not yet filed nor sentenced. In addition, the fact you jump to the conclusion that you believe that there are differences between the charges between both American soldiers. Well given facts, the only clear facts are that the 2 soldiers are of differen race and religion.... So you tell me, who is full of BS...

I would doubt the BS comparisons if the Fort Hood shooter was a white christian. I would also doublt your outrage if the current victims were Americans in our White America. Face it, no matter what you plant... it is still manure.

Leiya123, Yes, I liive in a glass house. I definitely know because I would be the first to cast stones. I am proud that I live in a glass house. The facts are that you can see in, and I can see out... Unfortunately, you can't say others. Troll? You're entitled to opinions... You would know one if one bite you in your ass. A person who disagree, is far from being a troll... lol... because it is far too easy labeling you as sheep, but what does that accomplish? or does it really fit you because you agree with someone else. Ultimately that is about hate, not disagreement. So again, I would question your intent with your casting of the stone.

Personally, I think you are afraid of reality, because it bites. There is no hypocracy here (because there aren't any argments nor formal charges filed for comparison). It is simply hatred for our President and Muslims (people who we don't understand).

Tthurd: Sooo, it's 'work place violence' for what happened in Afghanistan? I mean, the guy was stationed in a combat zone and he was enlisted as a soldier, posted in a combat zone, which makes said combat zone his 'work place.'

Note as well that there is a rush to condemn this sargeant whereas Obama got up and announced immediately after the Ft Hood shootings that 'we were not to rush to judgement' and assume it was an act of terrorism or jihad, which, indeed, it was. Nothing like standing on a desk, killing people while yelling "Allah Akbar' says 'work place violence' better, now does it?

thturd

Your post 1.116 you cast the first stone with the implication of, and I quote you: " Only idiots apply their beliefs upon others. And out of stupidity do people believe idiots who applied their personal beliefs upon others. So which of the two catagories should we file you?".

I just proved that YOU casted the first stone by trying to belittle a fellow NV'er by implying that they were idiots. Come-on now Thturd, we have a COH and lets try to abide by it. When you disagree with someone there are other ways to rebuttle or retort back without 'casting stones'. Try it sometime, it'll lower your blood pressure:)

BTW, I'm a Viet Nam vet and have seen the reality of war first hand. I've seen it and lived it. And Yes, some select women went 'up country' to fulfill missions. So yes, I can say that I'm not afraid of reality.

Don't be so quick to 'rush to judgement' of others. For, you you have no clue as to who they are or the experiences 'they' have been through. Also, I was called back to service during the first Gulf war. And I willingly went.

See you again on the Vine.

thTurd

Please read this:

http://www.speroforum.com/a/20487/International-Court-to-charge-US-military-members

It's an easy read.

Casting the first stone???? lol, the first stone was cast when Mygirlmade the accusation of Hypocrisy. It is shameful that Leiya123 is not able to see beyond the obvious attempt of creating fictional antagonist, because the facts have not been established...

Of course I ridiculed Mygirl's post and your post for sucking up (call me a Troll). A couple of things... The link posted is a commentary. Secondly, the commentary is from Heritage Foundation, a Right Wing think tank that is 100% supported by the Republicans and the Conservatives. Heritage foundation funded and founded by the likes of Koch brothers and their corporations.... Sorry, I hardly call their allegations factual let along neutral. People really should check sources before posting. Unless one intend to mislead others.

Another thing, the credited writers are paid Heritage staff writers who have ZERO military background. The commentary does not facts to both cases, because neither writers have gathered evidences nor discovered new arguments. Finally, because neither writers have the experiece as a JAG, I would hardly consider their arguments relevant in the reality of Military Courts or Tribunerals. It is so interesting that one of the writer did not believe that Koney does not present to be a severe threat in Africa. In fact it was suggested that President Obama went after Koney in Africa because Koney as a "Christian." This came directly out of Heritage Foundation.

So Don't you think the likes of Leiya123 and Mygirl are jumping the gun?

Steven Groves is a civil lawyer, if HEe is so confident with his argument, would you not think he would take it to the next level so that people's right are not violated and hypocrisies are not rendered to faultless victims???

thturd

"The link posted is a commentary. Secondly, the commentary is from Heritage Foundation, a Right Wing think tank that is 100% supported by the Republicans and the Conservatives."

Oh, so it must be wrong if it's from Heritage Foundation. Your bias is showing against anything that doesn't fit your scheme of things in life. If you post links from Media Mattters (George Soros) should I discredit You?

Of course not.

" Casting the first stone???? lol, the first stone was cast when Mygirlmade the accusation of Hypocrisy"

I know, blame someone else (sound familiar of someone in the Whitehouse?). Be a man! Whatever rattled you by what Mygirl said, just discount it and move on. Why let someone on NV stir your anger and insight you for revenge?

It's okay with me if we disagree on things, but disparaging someone because of a disagreement concerning political affairs is a little silly.

Leiya123, Yes, I place high bias on articles that comes out from Rachel, Heritage Foundation, and other politically affiliated organization. Let alone a commentary. It is a remark regarding what you consider "source." Hey, I can careless what you think, because I am not here to change your opinion. I am here to make certain that people see the other side, opposing side and too often, the facts.

You are making your position and reinforcing Mygirl's position with a commentary from a right wing organization which has consistently discredit any Democratic party activities. Of course, I am biased. The difference? I am fully aware that I am biased, and I compensate for the biase... You??? based on your attempt, I think not.

Casting the first stone??? The remark was set when Hyporacy was announced. Public figure or not, it makes no difference. It is simply easier to obtain facts when public figures or activities are involved. If the initial claim of "hypocrisy" does not exist, then obviosuly we would not be conversing. It is funny that you would considering my orginal statement disparaging..."Only idiots apply their beliefs upon others. And out of stupidity do people believe idiots who applied their personal beliefs upon others. So which of the two catagories should we file you?". So what does that make you when you made the remark that it is defemation against our country when the a particular local Democratic campaign office place Obama's face on our national flag???? So why do rule suddently doesn't apply to yourself???? Are you above criticisms???

Look in the mirror. I don't claim what I am not. And I will call you out when you F up or when you lie willfully. Sorry if you can't handle it. What is "Be a Man"? Is that some sort of thing that Homophobes say when you don't have anything to say??? WEAK. Name calling... lol WEAK... a waste of space. No wonder we need immigrants.

thturd

You are what you are, thturd. I certainly wouldn't try to change your foul-mouthed, immature attitude towards people you don't even know. I always try to find merit in all people, but you, you haven't shown one iota of decency since we started this dialogue. If I were you, I'd be afraid to look in that mirror of yours.

I am fully aware that I am biased and I compensate for the biase(sic)...

How are you 'compensating for your bias?' How does one compensate for their bias? What, exactly, does that mean?

Generally, if one is biased that means that they are in favor of one position over another position, one ideology over another and so forth. To be biased means that one is prejudiced. To compensate you would have to counterbalance or make up for a prejudice. Where and how are you counterbalancing your prejudice/bias?

I notice that you do not refute my statement that 'work place violence' should be applied equally in the case of this sergeant and Maj. Hasan, which was what my original argument was about. You caught the disparagement towards Obama (intended) and failed to see the hypocrisy inherent in labeling an act of terrorism 'workplace violence'. Hasan committed mass murder as a result of his jihadist ideology and the Obama administration refuses to call his atrocities terrorism (the definition currently used to describe murder committed in the name of ideology and/or religion) and choose to downplay said actions by labeling them 'work place violence.' Please explain how this is not hypocrisy? Especially when the term terrorist is so freely bandied about by legislators and law enforcement and laws are created specifically "to stem the tide of terrorism.'

I would also doublt your outrage if the current victims were Americans in our White America. Face it, no matter what you plant... it is still manure.

It is simply hatred for our President and Muslims (people who we don't understand).

Leiya123 and mygirl1 The true colors of racism come out with those comments. A black man who has been brainwashed by racist parents his entire life that the WHITE man “done them wrong” and feels the rest of the world OWES them for wrongs committed in the PAST and can’t seem to move past their hatred and bitterness.

When your heart if full of hatred and bitterness, you CANT move past it and only continue to oppress yourself, not realizing you are not hurting the other party, but yourself. Forgive and forget doesn’t exist in their vocabulary as it is ingrained on them their entire lives and passed on from generation to generation. It is a vicious cycle that continues to oppress them and keep them in slavery to themselves…until someone is willing to break the cycle. Too bad no one will.

He forgets he started this by calling ME the idiot, thanks for defending Leiya!

Fedup: What is so amusing in the 'racist' argument is how those accusing others of racism rarely acknowledge the fact that a 'black' man (I use the quotes because, frankly, a person's skin color is irrelevant, it is the content of their character and the actions which they engage in by which I judge a person) is the President of the United States. Were racism as prevalent and pervasive as they pretend it is, said person would never have made it to the position he currently holds. He would not have achieved anything of note because, according to their premise, racism is the guiding factor holding people back.

It is very tiresome to have to listen to charges of racism hurled against others by people who are themselves racist. Said folk are either in denial as to their own personal prejudices or else they use the race card in an attempt to defend indefensible behaviours, if they were truly honest and not caught up in the cult of personality, they should be very concerned about the direction the government is headed. In the 'War on Terror' countless lives have been lost, civil rights seriously eroded and the emergence of a police state commences. Naively thinking that 'their president' wouldn't use certain laws is is foolish for two reasons, first, the expression 'wolf in sheep's clothing' comes to mind and secondly, after their president is gone, what guarantee is there that someone with no principles at all comes to power and does indeed use said laws?

Short sighted people are often the reason that people like Hitler gain ascendancy.

Leiya123 and mygirl1 The true colors of racism come out with those comments. A black man who has been brainwashed by racist parents his entire life that the WHITE man “done them wrong” and feels the rest of the world OWES them for wrongs committed in the PAST and can’t seem to move past their hatred and bitterness.

When your heart if full of hatred and bitterness, you CANT move past it and only continue to oppress yourself, not realizing you are not hurting the other party, but yourself. Forgive and forget doesn’t exist in their vocabulary as it is ingrained on them their entire lives and passed on from generation to generation. It is a vicious cycle that continues to oppress them and keep them in slavery to themselves…until someone is willing to break the cycle. Too bad no one will.

When you put it like that - it almost makes sense....

Except - The issue is about integrity, and personal freedoms ... not really about race - until viewed without the bigotry.

Ya see, if you opened your eye, instead attempting to absolve your self and "Your race" of the crimes they have committed in the name of progress you might see why or at least wonder what happened between the British vs the Irish, Welsh, Scots....

To this day, these formerly independent nations, continue to squabble over the same island(s). They fight over religion, heritage, self determination - devil to the loser.

The Brits invaded, stole the best land, raped and pillaged their precious flowers, then claimed the inhabitants were unable to govern themselves, something they had done successfully for 100's of generations - without the assistance of the Brits ... when they fought back, the inevitable claims that ignorant savages just weren't able to accept the natural rule of their "betters" became part of the media blitz.

Butler, Yeats, Dole, Wilde, etc made that claim a lie. Some of the best writer, poets, Novelist that came out of Britain were NOT English!

You, my imbecilic friend, have an ugly mind as well as a foul mouth.

The Big lie worked so well, that it has remained - unchanged - and become the Global pretext for invading country after country ever since. It was used by the Dutch, the Spaniards, The Portuguese, The Chinese,... to invade and pillage entire nations and peoples. Supposedly because they were unfit for self government. Hitler is your best reference for your form of subtle fratricide. It served him well, you picked a fine model to emulate.

At your level, your branch of the human branch of evolution - what has "Your family" contributed? Other than the genetic equivalence of the intellectual, auditory compenents of a braying Ass.

Golly, a laser-like beam of intensity shown on the evil white race. Anti-colonialism referenced and noted. Now, where is that laser-like beam on say, the Japanese invasion of China? Korea? Where is that laser-like beam on Ruwanda? Somalia? The Boko Haram? Hell, you left out the Mongol Hordes and Ghengis Khan and what about Caesar and Hannibal? Shall we delve into the Caanites as well?

You going to keep punishing an old dog for peeing on the carpet when it was a puppy or are you going to move on and acknowledge the fact that people have evolved, evolved to the point where a black man is now president of the US, and the same can be said for many countries. Looking backwards continuously is like the story of Lot's wife, you turn into a pillar of salt. Immobile. Past grievances are all you have? If that is what sustains you then no wonder things don't get better in your mind. You look to the past to justify grievances that exist now? That is known as being a perpetual victim. Perpetual victims are always helpless, they rely on others rather than self. They make excuses rather than taking intiative. 'I can't be better than I am because two hundred years ago your ancestors behaved badly.'

You also forgot that the original premise for the 'race' statements were made because many posters accused others of racism. They lambasted those disagreeing with Obama, labeling anyone doing so as racist. Now, that canard is old, worn and lame, especially when some of the accusers then turn around and use racist terms like 'redneck, cracker, etc.' to define those whom they call racist. Pot calling the kettle black.

Imperialism is wrong, always has been, regardless of who is doing the invading. What you have issue with is in fact, the nature of humanity. The strong going after the weak and doing so with all means of self-justifications like religion, nationalism, patriotism...all code and catchwords for the reality, the truth of the matter which generally boils down into one word...greed.

Beoweolf said:

"You, my imbecilic friend, have an ugly mind as well as a foul mouth." "Other than the genetic equivalence of the intellectual, auditory compenents of a braying Ass." The only one 'braying' is you.

You haven't contributed anything to this dialogue other than a weak history lesson. Yes, I know that you'll retort with, and I paraphrase: those that don't learn from the past will repeat it. It doesn't hold water here.

You have taken mygirl1's comment about race totally out of context. And, of course, I have never mentioned race in any of my comments (but you didn't comprehend that). You're a pseudo-intellectual and lack the reading comprehension skills of a eighth grader. But wait, I forgot, YOU see racists and bigots everywhere you look and what you read. You better check your closet, and you better start questioning your loved ones to determine if their racists or bigots. You just might find what your looking for in your own family. I can attest to you that mygirl1 and I are not what your looking for, so try again elsewhere.

So, Beoweolf, find another dragon to slay and marry Grendel's mother while your at it.

You two deserve each other.

Beoweolf

Let me know if everything you said was directed towards mygirl1 and me. Please clarify.

FedupwithFed: Here is my original quote I left for you "FedupwithFed: Really? Weakness? Really? So exactly what do you know about Afgan culture? Only idiots apply their beliefs upon others. And out of stupidity do people believe idiots who applied their personal beliefs upon others. So which of the two catagories should we file you?" As you can clearly read, I did not declare that you're an idiot, for I could not tell if you're an idiot or simply acting out of stupidity. If you wish to declare yourself an idiot, I have not problem with that. Just because I pointed out the obvious, doesn't make the original "question" false.

Leiya123: Being a foul mouth person doesn't make a person a racist, nor does it make the non-foul mouth person not a racist. It is simply articulation. Unfortunately, reading your past posts, you would qualify to know what is foul is. Unfortunately it does not deter from the orignal point about Hypocracy and how rules don't apply to yourself.

Mygirl1: How is having a black president a proof that there is no racism? That is one of the most idiotic statement I have read given all that you have spewed... Given your logic and your statements, I am certain I am proving my point. You stated that it was hypocritical of the President to make such statement. I stated that you are basing your information that are not yet established. In addition, your call of hypocracy is has a racial undetone (bias) and even religious discrimination. After cutting away all the BS, we now come to your statement regarding having a Black President....

Sorry, having a black president simply help all of us talk about race. It does not mean racism is gone. Given your writing, I doubt you believe that racism is gone, becuase you clearly believe in discrimination against the whites.... HENCE, HOW CAN ONE BELIEVE YOU DID NOT INTENTIONALLY ACCUSE THE PRESIDENT OF HYPOCROSY if there aren't facts.... only bliefs from your own words that there are still DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE WHITE (intentional or unintentional) ....

Sorry, manure is still manure. Not matter how much perfume you use or how many people praising how wonderful it taste... It is still manure. Glad, you have got a bunch of sheeps who eats up yours droppings... NOT ME... It is manure. Backtracking doesn't help. The wonderful thing about these things are that we can read what you post here and other places...... like I said previously stated, hyprocracy has a seed already within long before. Facts are not up for debate, only history. So I am sorry, I will not stand for those who have intention of rewriting history.

Talk about past posts, again I ask you to look in your own mirror. Always blame someone else and not take responsibility for yourself (you act like our clueless leader in the whitehouse, always blameing others). Hipocracy reigns throughout your posts thturd.

By the way, I'm glad you decided to rejoin the dialogue again. I missed your foul mouth and then try to blame me for it (again, acting like our clueless leader).

Agree Leiya, ignorance is bliss!

Leiya123: Unlike you, I don't get paid sitting in front of my computer. Sorry, I am not on your entitlement plan, got a couple of companies to run.

Wow, where do I not take responsiblity for my writing? Do you make things up as you please and hope things stick??? Prove a single point of hypocracy that I have written. Unlike you I have facts (not commentaries or editorials to back my writings).. Like I wrote earlier, you're ignorant because you basing your argument on a Heritage Foundation Commentary (or an editorial / opinion piece). Just because you don't like an opinion does make it hypocritical. I hope you arguing becasue you know the definition of hypocracy.

Here is a case of recent hypocracy: President Obama initially denouced the use of SuperPac. Recently, he chose to use SuperPac campaign fund. Although, I understand why, but it is still hypocritical for him to criticize, but then choose to use it to remain competitive.

Unfortunately, you and Mygirl were making cases on unconfirmed / unfounded data and evidence. Ultimately, if one strips away Mygirl's hypocracy, it was based upon racial and/or religioous differentials.... You chose to defend the argument with a comentary/opinion/editorial piece from Heritage Foundatoin's paid writers? Are you serious? You then accuse me of hypocritical for pointing out that your lunacy of using a clearly biased editorital piece as facts???? Ignorant ??? Really???

FedupwithFed: I guess, you're very blissful.

thturd

Ron Paul can win a state if and only if he support legalization of Hemp and Pot. Unfortunately, he won't, becuase he is not willing to be a true Libertarian.

There you have it Leiya.....his brain is fried!

FedupwithFed: apparantly you don't understand what is Liberterian... It is about a completely free market without any regulatory measures. Yes that would mean the likes of pot / hemp sales! Pot or grass is regulated drug. Hemp is a regulated plant due to strong lobbying from the Cotton industry. In fact Hemp is a strong crop that rivaled cotton during the colonial / post revolution time. Until it was regulated, not because of hallucinagent factor, but due to the fact that Hemp did not have a very strong lobbying group (because it is a native plant)!!!

If Ron Paul is a true Libertarian, then he would be about true FREE TRADE. Unfortunately he can not, because 1. he is regulated by his medical license 2. He is about $ donors.

So FedupwithFed, please think or understand the positions before posting... talking about you being blissful in your ignorance. lol...

Unfortunately innocent women, children, and men were being executed by the Taliban prior to our arrival. This war shouldn't be the United States' war or even NATO's war, it should be the UN's war. Only if the world comes together to stop extremists and to help the general Afghan population will your hope come true.

This war shouldn't be the United States' war or even NATO's war, it should be the UN's war

No, it should be the Afghans' war. After a decade of arming and training the Afghans, one would think that they would be prepared and engaged enough to seek their own progress. Instead, we're training heroine addicts, who take up arms against our own troops.

ALL troops need out now, let Afghanistan to the dark ages, and let the Taliban hang that corrupt idiot Karzai.

CeasarRodney: Take a look at that picture of the 'general Afghan population'! The general Afghan population DOES NOT WANT OUR HELP OR ANYONE ELSE'S for that matter. They are happy in the selection of their way of life. THAT is why no one has ever been able to help them!! We NEED TO GET OUT NOW!

We did what we went there for. We pretty much tossed the Taliban out of power and ran Bin Laden and his bunch into Pakistan the first year we were there. Other than killing Bin Laden that was "mission accomplished". We should have left at that time. There is no way in hell these people want a democracy and it is none of our business anyway. We need to get the hell out of there and let this country of first millennium savages kill each other after we leave, and we will be the better for it.

JK from PA, the Afghan soldiers have been trained by our military. The only problem is they're fighting against people who were also trained by our military and CIA in the 80's.

ANYONE REMEMBER FORT HOOD ? Did Karzai and any of those Rag head Muhllas Apologize for the Massacre at Ft. Hood ? Any Reparations come forth From The Nation of Islam ? NOOOOOO ! Why . Because we are a nation of Limp Wristed Woosies ! And The Islamist KNOW IT ! Why do you think so many atrocoties happened in Viet Nam that we never heard about ?Troopers are sick and tired of playing Cops, and seeing their Buddies getting Killed. When that happens too often something has got to give! Remember My Lai back in the 60ties? This Guy snapped and I hope He will get off ! If the Islamist traitor from Fort Hood gets executed, then this guy should too.

Did Afghanistan ever apologize for not doing more to stop the Taliban before 9/11?

No? Didn't think so.

They are happy in the selection of their way of life.

And if they're not, it's up to them to change it, not us. How anyone thinks democracy can be imposed on a population is beyond me. That's the exact opposite of how democracy is supposed to work.

The Apologizer-in-Chief is at his finest!

he's the A55-kisser-in-cheif.....

We need a leader that will make our nation proud again....not ONE since Kennedy

and obama is the low point of that time line

The President is correct: No human being is worth more than another. Killing is killing, it doesn't matter what nationality you are.

Thankfully, we now have a leader with some sense.

ANYONE REMEMBER FORT HOOD ? Did Karzai and any of those Rag head Muhllas Apologize for the Massacre at Ft. Hood ? Any Reparations come forth From The Nation of Islam ?

Why should Karzai apologize. Nidal Malik Hasan was a US CITIZEN not an Afghan. Does every christian head of state need to apologize for Timothy McVeigh?

Swan, McVeigh never admitted to being a Christian but rather stated that he was an agnostic!

But don't let that get in the way of making yourself feel all warm and fuzzy.

Swan, McVeigh never admitted to being a Christian but rather stated that he was an agnostic!

McVeigh : "I do believe in a God, yes."

How's that agnostic now?

Now he is dead!

I think it would be hilarious if the reason barack lost the election came down to the massive disapproval of us being in Afghanistan. Of course that will be just one of many reasons but what an ironic wonderment that would be. I would even call it poetic justice. The little inexperienced boy never knew that being president takes balls, brains, and most of all leadership. Bush had 2 1/2 of those traits...barack? None.

At the end of the day he never said he killed in the name of any religion.

balls and leadership? are they the two?

Which bush are we talking about? The smart old guy or his spoiled drugie son? There is a big difference.

I must agree, no one seems to think that the Fort Hood massacre guy deserves anything other than jail. He's a terriorist just like anyone else. Didn't someone-oh I remember-that other black man in charge of Fast & Furious-state Americans can be taken down as terrorists? Why doesn't someone take this raghead from Ft. Hood and sentence him to be executed. Then maybe you can execute one of our soldiers for shooting afghans. However, as it has been for about the last 3 yrs of this presidency, our soldiers will take it in the A$$ for having defended themselves.

From what I've seen, our guys are taking it in the rear every time the afghans shoot their own people. It seems to be our fault that they commit genocide in their own villages.

I have family that has served in Irag, Iran and Afghanistan. Several tours by each. They have their mental issues and it hasn't been fun -- it seems to be something that they can't quite get over, and I have spoken to one nephew on his service, and he can't get past what he had to do in order to stay alive. I'm sure that goes for the other one that served in Iran's war. The third nephew (2 or 3 purple hearts) has health issues due to Navy negligence while he was over there, I understand his mental status is better than the other two, but he will fight the physical health issue for the rest of his life.

I don't think the Americans should have to take the blame for everything. First it was the Koran (sp), which sounds like a set up against the Americans in the first place. That caused several of our soldiers to be slaughtered. Did anyone apologize for that? NO. Now, because someone lost it, more of our soldiers will die in retaliation. When does it stop? If the obumer in chief continues down this road of apologies-you might see a mass exit from the region, authorized or not!

Patricia I understand your frustration, as I have numerous family members that served and died over in the Middle East.

My cousin killed himself over there. After reading pages and pages of military reports that basically said the military was negligent in his death, I started educating myself on the American leadership's war machine.

What I've found is alarming. Most of the American aggression isn't done in the name of freedom, democracy, or doing what's "right". It's done to advance an evil foreign policy.

We shouldn't be angry towards Afghani's defending their homes that our elected officials have been destroying for quite some time. It should be directed towards this corrupt, tyrannical federal government that has operated free of the American citizens wishes since at least 1916. Everything is manufactured consent with them, everything.

Superskunk,

The Politicians love to point fingers, they seldom remember that. They called on the Military when ALL their POLITICAL options had run out and they have FAILED at their job. The reason that Bush Jr received the AUMFs for both the Afghanistan and Iraq Conflicts, prior to any US Troops being committed..

But then you have;

1. The dropping of the atomic bombs due to POLITICAL reasons. According to MacArthur, "He saw no military justification for using the Atomic Bombs."

2. The ESCALATION of the Vietnam Conflict, by LBJ...

3. The ESCALATION of the Afghanistan Conflict and other conflicts, by Obama...

4. Etc, etc...

The US Congressional APPROVAL ratings are at ALL-Time LOWS. Because they have failed to pass any budget or hold Obama ACCOUNTABLE to the written US Constitution regulations and LAWS...

Maybe Afghanistan/Pakistan will bring charges against the USA/Obama for VIOLATING their sovereignty and the numerous Rules of War, in the World Court...

You got that right !

The best part is, these great leaders of ours that are so much smarter than us, always seem to take the fastest easiest way out, war. War is the least intellectual way of dealing with things, and the fastest, costliest way as well.

The American people never seem to ask for alternatives, they just accept war.

What if a Afghan came into your house and murdered your children in their sleep. Would you be ok with that person being allowed to return to their home country and allowed to go about his life with no consequences?

If an American, who had a car accident that resulted in major brain damage, came into a American home and killed 9 children in their sleep what would be the penalty? Would you be ok with the justice system allowing him to returng to his life without consequences?

I believe you are allowing your patriotism to cloud your judgement.

If an American did this here he would get the death penalty. Why is ok to kill Afghan children in their sleep but not American? If you have children you should take a good look at them and ask yourself this question.

How would I feel if someone did this to my children?????? What punishment would be just for killing your children in their sleep???????

Because we give little value to life, especially if its an Arab life. After all, weren't all the 9-11 high-jackers Arabs? The United Snakes (US/Israel) have immunized themselves against the justice available at the ICC. I mean, "we are AmeriKKKan's, right? We (The world) have begun to cheer for the Taliban. I mean these are the 'good guys' defending their country against the US/NATO 'baby killer' aggressors, right? And as for the United Snakes. Hell, "kill 'em all and let their God sort them out" I mean we're God's (The Devils?) main man, dah?

If an American, who had a car accident that resulted in major brain damage, came into a American home and killed 9 children in their sleep what would be the penalty? Would you be ok with the justice system allowing him to returng to his life without consequences?

Of course not. We would scream ally akbar for 12 hours straight, then go kill each other, scream ally akbar for another 12 hours, then kill our own women for showing their ankles, then scream ally akbar for another 12 hours, then go kill some other group of people because they believe in a different god than we do, then back to screaming ally akbar, then set off of few roadside bombs, killing more innocent people then in the initial incident, then...time for afternoon prayers.

Then its off to to kill other locals because they're not like we are, then 12 hours of screaming ally akbar, then 12 more hours of screaming death to (enter middle east country name) when we cant even find it on a map, then whipping the local rape victims, then 12 hours of screaming ally akbar... then time for prayers again.

simple concept

Ally akbar screaming

Bombs

prayers

More bombs

Ally akbar screaming

You forget before the Alexander the Great, the Russians now the US/NATO 'baby killers' arrived these massacres weren't happening. I say we give the Taliban stinger missiles and B-2 bombers and stand back as they 'liberate' their country from the foreign devils.

Don't think money will do it. It may enrage them even more. These are uneducated people who believe strictly in the views of teh 1300's. There is no rational way to resolve this so just cut the losses, let the soldier go home and get the hell out.

The terrorists have bombed thousands of innocent civilians throughout the world and now they know what it feels like.

And don't tell me they weren't terrorists.

kun886, you apparently don't know the history of American involvment in the middle east.

The American military machine has killed hundreds of thousands innocent men, women, and children well before the terms "terrorist" and "insurgent" were used.

The American intelligence community is the primary reason that the people in these third world countries want to kill us. The American military occupation throughout the world is why other countries want to kill us. The ones that don't want to kill us have increased their militaries as the American War Machine moves through the globe killing and occupying on the way.

Do you think it's a coincidence that China is now the number 2 military spender in the world ? Is it a coincidence that they have more than doubled their military budget in the last 5 years, as the American military budget continues to grow and dwarf EVERY other country ?

This is classic combat fatigue. This soldier has been on too many deployments, seen too many brothers in arms killed, and seen too much violence. He's so desensitized he can't distingush friend from foe. Our leadership is run by the money smashing machine of the military industrial complex. George Bush and Dick Cheney should be put on trial for war crimes...and Barack Obama should be impeached for breaking his promise when he said he would end this war. The only "Mission Accomplished" is creating another generation of people who hate us. I'm so ashamed of what our leadership has done to the good and sincere hearts of our soldiers. The drones in Washington just don't care about our soldiers. They just don't care about the American people. All the blame will be put on this soldier...and they're talking about killing him. Well they killed him a long time ago

Our intrepid "Rambo" .... goes out kills him a batch of civilians (obviously - he couldn't help himself, he's certifiable).

Oop, wait a minute - after shooting up, what was it - 3 different households ... he retreats to the base, where his Friends and the miitary can protect him from the consequences of his actions?

That wasn't crazy. Makes damn good sense if you ask me - almost like he had a plan, executed that plan and had the foresight (unlike GW) to have created an exit strategy...

Not that I'm an arm chair Psychologist like many of you are - but that is not the sign of an insane person Another obvious fact - in a backwards country where they are still legally allowed to kill their kids, wives, relatives - over honor. the laws are not going to be as progressive as in places where the death penalty has been outlawed.

If you want the benefits of civilian murder Lite (all the rampage - but half the sentencing), then the US army is a perfect shelter.

No, I do no want him turned over to a mob of blood thirsty, tribesmen ... likely to be striped naked, tortured, torn to bits and drug through the streets - then have a 4 week free maudigra of killing anyway.

But you must admit, this comes at a really, really bad time. You can expect some "blood Money" being given out and lots of payback over this.

No this is not the consequence of extended tours - its the actions, reactions of soldiers - when the action starts to wind down too fast. It takes time to decompress. The worse thing we could do is rush these soldiers home on short notice. After WWII, the troops came home on ships, it took a month or so for them to get back to the the states- and that was after months hanging around inEurope or asia before their unt was scheduled to return.

Durinng the Veit Nam conflict, your DROS was less than a week, you came out of the field, took a shower, got on the plane and landed in LA or Seattle 13 hours later, were on a bus home 1 or 2 days after that.

When you spend 24/7 covering your rear, you expect to be harmed - it goes with the job. But, when it starts to wind down is when it gets dangerous. anyone who understands physics ... knows that the most dangerous times come when there is a state change. Releasing the lid on a pressure cooker is worse than letting it stay on the heat.

Not that I'm an arm chair Psychologist like many of you are - but that is not the sign of an insane person

I thought the same thing, but I hate to feed into any conspiracy theories. They're probably already blossoming on their own.

kin886,

i get what you're trying to say, but no, a two year-old is not a terrorist. this is the problem with war today-in the old days, war was bloody and violent and innocent people died everyday. war was something to be avoided. but, today, we are so careful not to hurt anyone and just attack the 'enemy' that we don't see any reason to ever end the fighting. you should watch Star Trek, the original show. there was an episode about just this very thing. a war fought with computers and people willingly went to their deaths-no blood, no destruction. well, good ol' Kirk came in and changed that, just like the cowboy he was and ended the war.

point being: innocent people will die! that's what war is all about and that's why we should be doing our best to avoid it. we can't just pull up stakes and run. it's hard to understand that unless you're there. nixon did that in vietnam and it turned out to be a fiasco for us for years. i think obama is doing the right thing, but let's check back and see if we don't get out sooner. i'll bet he finds a way to do it without making us look like dogs running with their tail between our legs. we'll just have to wait and see. i am sorry for the innocents killed in afghanastan, not only by this soldier but also the ones killed by their own people. what a shame these peoples' lives are wasted while their leaders obsess over power. and using God as a tool-hypocrisy at its height.

Michelle you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Do you think he he snuck his way back to that hell hole to commit these murders. No he is in the military and was ordered to go back and fight. By the way if some kid suffered a brain injury in a car accident and doctors did not treat his injury properly or signed a waiver and allowed the kid to under go unusual stress which caused him to go on a murdering spree the doctors would would be charged and there would be an outrage as to what happened both to the dead and the kid. What needs to happen Michelle is they should draft you and your friends, train you and send you to combat in Afganistan. I beleive you are allowing your lack of patriotism to cloud your lack of judgement.

AZ COWBOY/Taliban lover.......better get under a rock...there's a drone circling overhead

Imzee. Its Allah Akbar not ally akbar. Not taking sides, I'm just a bit of a grammar and spelling freak

Because we give little value to life, especially if its an Arab life. After all, weren't all the 9-11 high-jackers Arabs?

Yes they were however Afghanis' aren't Arabs.

All American citizens are allowed due process under law. Anyone who speaks of a soldier not having that right is ignorant or dismisses their value as citizens. That said, it's time to bring back the draft - immediately. Since Obama is offering only superficial diplomacy with Iran and has put them on notice, has left Iraq in a 'nation-building' state replete with thousands of consultants, contractors, security and government personnel, and has furthered the buildup in the war in Afghanistan, it is unwise to believe he will not obligate the military further. Our troops are tired, injured, dead. Perhaps if those who dismiss military service as less than admirable or beneath them were forced to go, they would gain a better appreciation of the sacrifice involved, the stress of numerous life-threatening deployments over many years, though likely with less dedication than those who signed on to serve. Bring back the Draft. We need it now. Immediately. Everybody's kids - get in line. Come on, Obama. You're the president. Give our soldiers a break. They need replacements. They're suffering. You won't bring them home. We need a draft!

Just for the record: Iranians aren't Arabs either. They are Persians.

So now the Taliban is promising that they will kill our soldiers? Hmm that's funny, I thought they already committed to that, being that we are at war and all.

It's ok for the Taliban to stone and burn teenagers for winking at each other, but then they act mad when someone else does it.

When a "misguided" missile blows up a building and kills 16 innocent people it doesn't get too much attention, yet when 1 soldier goes in and kills 16 people, the world is coming to an end

If a Taliban walks down the street and kills 16 people, we'd be calling for blood. When 1 of our kills 16 people, we start screaming about the Constitution and the attributed rights.

I served multiple tours in Iraq, and while I COMPLETELY understand what goes on at times of war, most of you (by reading your comments) have no F'ing clue. You think that somehow only the bad guys get killed during hostile times? This has been happening all along in every war, the only difference is that the media decides how they want to make all you sheeple think. War sucks, that's it. You want to remedy all of this, tell Obama to get us out NOW. Blame Bush, blame Obama, blame God or Allah but all said and done, if we stay at home and secure our own borders, we won't have to deal with all these issues. If you can manage to take off your elephant or donkey hat for a second, then you might be able to see that this truly is a pretty simple solution. Too bad so many Americans are F'ing morons who let Ted Koepple make up their minds.

Easy AZ Cowboy; Take a breath from spitting on our soldiers. Vietnam still got your panties in a bunch? Because you have a right to hate this country (as long as barack doesn't pass any more anti-1st ammendment laws...which he just did) and you've used that right to massively offend me and I imagine many other people on this post, I feel the need to reply.

First of all who's cheering for the Taliban other than you and the Taliban...or are you one in the same? Either way, you're wrong.

Secondly, "united snakes (US/Isreal)" Really? You almost said it why didn't you go ahead and finish your thoughts. Go ahead, I double-dog-dare you.

Thirdly; this obsession you have with spouting the term "baby killers" is almost cliche' and you are demonstrating that you are either stuck in time, which would make you a fool, or that you are simply a fool. You curse the American Serviceman (and women) with the same voice that those very same servicemen have given you the freedom to express. I honestly would love to see you living in a tyrannical society and be under the brutal control of say....um...the Syrian regime. Then maybe you would be mowed down in the street by those who rule you, all while texting to the rest of the world "USA please do something!" "Baby killers"?...what a jack-ass.

Lastly the whole "AmeriKKKan's" statement. Ummm, I don't care if you have the freedom to say that or not. Because I have the freedom to frankly tell you to go to hell. You and those like you are a detriment to this country. You're a burden on society and you do absolutely nothing to forward a positive movement. You're full of hate and divide. You're position is not far from our presidents, maybe you should go ask him for a job, I'm sure he will open up a czar position for you. Maybe czar of clogged white house toilets because that's about all you would be useful for. (Actually that would be above your intelligence level) Racist piece of garbage!

Rightwingwac: yup, and...you wrote what I was thinking.

Ohhhh, but there's still 2/3rd's of the world to rape of their carbon and other critical resources we desperately need (Even more than the people that own them) - Hell, what would they do with them that we can't, as a smarter and wealtier nation make better use of their resources and why not use the 'patriotic' fools that pay with the lives while the 2% war profiteers make zillions in profits and (like GE) pay no taxes, hell of a deal, huh Pilgrims?

TheAZCowboy: Why are you even in this country....you obviously hate America and have nothing disrespect for this great nation. I couldn't agree more with the majority of the posts in here....this war needs to end!! But I still love my country. You, AZ, are an opportunist using this chat platform as a vehicle to spew hatred for America. Maybe you should go live in Afghanistan or Iraq so you can see just how "bad" you have it here!!!

I think that was sarcasm you were sensing there from AZCOW

HoosierTexas, I believe that TheAZCowboy was using sarcasm to criticize the elected officials of this country.

I speak out against the federal government daily, but I still love America and the American people, that doesn't make me un-American as the government propaganda machine would have you believe.

It's ridiculous and irresponsible to give the conditioned response of "If you don't like it here, move !" when someone criticizes the government.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Howard Zinn

Azcowboy is really obama

And they're both @!$%#s!

i agree completely. let's pull our troops AND our money out of the mid east a see how much they hate us then. The hipocrites hate us but love our money , so screw them

Who are the barbarians? You need to Google 'Barbarians' and you might find that 'You have met the 'Barbarians and they are US!" Iran has not attacked 'anyone' in 200 years and people at the Pentagon like you call them 'terrorists.' better Google that one too, K?

Funny how 'The power of the sword" make us right, huh, Pilgrim?

Iran's surrogates have been waging war in the middle east since the Islamic revolution in the 70's. They are not innocent either. However if you just put the pro's and con's on the scale this war would fall off the table on the cons side.

Excuse me...AZCowboy.........the topic is Afghanistan not Iran........maybe you need to read the story before you post as to not look so lost.

Hey, Cowboy......Iran has been financing terrorists all over the world for many years and have killed many Americans......I guess someone who didn't get through high school would'nt know that......

I love how you're calling the Afghanis terrorists when the subject of this article is the killing of 16 innocent Afghanis by an American soldier.

This whole incident sucks and it's tragic. BUT maybe the Afghans should have given up the "terrorists" on Oct. 7th 2002 when we went in. Then maybe none of this would be happening. If you knowingly allow huge terrorist cells to operate within your borders then you are aiding and abbetting and sorry to say...you're a terrorist nation. Doesn't mean everyone within the borders are, but either they approved or were too spineless to narc 'em out. Either way, 3,000+ innocent people were destroyed here and the only thing that government did was say "ok, you can come look for them here". Screw the whole region!

All of the hijackers except for one was from Saudi Arabia. The bin Laden family and the Bush family were longtime friends and were in business together.

That's great, and we've lost more than that since 2001 in combat... if you want to go over there and give them what for, then go right ahead. As a country, we need to cut our losses... we got the guy that orchestrated the whole thing, which is all we should have been after to start with... and eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, as Gandhi said. He wasn't just talking fluff.

We will never get over the deaths of our own, so do we stay in war until everyone that was alive when it happened has past? so 100+ years?

The bin Laden family and the Bush family were longtime friends and were in business together

AND, Prescott Bush, GW's grandpappy, was doing backdoor deals with the Nazis right into 1944. There is no honor with the Bush family; it is every man for himself, and whatever it takes to make a buck.

GW and Cheney lied their way into Iraq, turned their backs on our mission and troops in Afghanistan, and cashed out our coffers to hand our billions to their rich pals. All, while mortgaging our future to the Chinese to pay for their misguided adventures. As someone posted earlier, Bush and Cheney should be brought up on war crimes.

psp, it wasn't the Afghans it was the Saudis.

So attack Iraq, Afghan and now Iran because the Saudis attacked you? I won't draw parallels since you can see how stupid it is.

john-537378

All of the hijackers except for one was from Saudi Arabia. The bin Laden family and the Bush family were longtime friends and were in business together.

While that may be true I remember them dancing in the streets after the towers fell. I also remember the Taliban harboring Bin Laden. They'll do it again for the terrorist group, we will come in and pound them, they will scatter like cock roaches and once the light gets turned out they'll come back out again.

I can see this being a cycle and that is why I believe it’s not so easy to leave.

J. Scott-3677762: It is much easier than you might think. Grab your guns and duffle bags, climb on a transport plane and blow everything that can't be quickly stowed on the plane to smitherines ! Leave them nothing. No aid, No money, No investment. Period. You said it yourself "They'll do it again!" Yes they will and they will always support our enemies so WHY GIVE THEM ANYTHING? Personally, I think the place should be carpet bombed about once a year and after awhile the people would get the hell out of Dodge! Sorry folks but I just don't think that walking down a street where you KNOW you will fall into a hole is the smart thing to do OVER AND OVER AGAIN! It's EASY just STOP!

All, while mortgaging our future to the Chinese to pay for their misguided adventures. As someone posted earlier, Bush and Cheney should be brought up on war crimes.

President Obama either believes this to be true and does nothing, making him as inhuman and incompetent

Or

He thinks its stupid and a lot like the senseless drivel that comes from birthers.

I wonder which one it is?

Spiritus333 - You can't really say it was the Saudis either. Most of the 911 terrorists were Saudis, but don't you think it is unfair to extend blame to Saudi Arabia or Egypt when it has not been shown that the government of any of those countries was complaisant in the attacks. Afghanistan was deemed to be complaisant in that they were harboring Bin Laden and al Qaida training camps.

Of course the score with Afghanistan was settled long before Bin Laden was killed. Now they try to hold the Taliban at bay. A task which has turned from very difficult to nearly impossible with the way things have been going.

I really can't blame the Afghans for reacting the way they are. If the tables were turned Americans would already be taking justice into their own hands for better or worse.

I still support Obama for lack of a better choice, but I think he should re-examine his desire to keep the pullout from Afghanistan on Schedule.

Yup, financing Jewish terrorism has been an expensive lesson for the Great Satan, LOL!

So AZcowboy if there is a"Great Satan" are there also "lesser Satans", "mediocre Satans", "average Satans" etc. etc. etc.?

There were no Iraquies, No Iranians, and, especially no Afghans on that plane. We invaded two countries in order to find one man and his little group (Saudis). Should have been handled like a police matter in the first place; they spent a couple of thousand dollars to bring our buildings down, kill 3 thousand americans and we have spent 3 trillion or more trying to get even?

It is time to leave. It is time to start seeking peace around the world and I am personally not ready to fight a war because Israel wants us to. Great friends or not.

Hal282, well said, those are good points. You are right. And I agree, especially with your last two sentences.

Just remember that it was Carter and the CIA who funded, trained, and armed these Muslim Extremist...

That Clinton and Reagon also used them to do the USA's dirty work against the USSR, Russia, etc...

That the funding, training, and placing the key terrorist in the USA for 9-11. ALL happened during Clinton's watch, when he was playing and being funded by the Chinese...

Now, now AC, you're posting facts which go against the script. Facts are annoying and of little consequence to those who refuse to see truth. Those folks don't want facts, that would disturb them no end and remove the baseless accusations which they cling to like beacons of light rather than actually paying attention to what really happened.

This will not get any better. What happened was horrible, but the people taking the streets are not looking for justice. They are the Taliban's lap dogs who are nothing more than animals. The Taliban does not care about those people. This is just good PR for them. I say hit the Taliban hard.

We should have done that in the first place. We've half assed our way around and allowed the cock roaches to scatter. Once the light gets turned out they'll come back.

Afghans who live in the district, many of whom have proved wary of foreigners and fearful that the Taliban — who were pushed to the margins in many areas but still remained a forceful presence — would eventually return and extract a heavy toll from those who cooperated with the Americans.

I can see this being a cycle and that is why I believe it’s not going to be easy to leave.

of course we should just leave and take all the money with us .. then the chinese or the russians will suddenly become their new BFF's .. Chavez will offer them coffee and bullets .. every thug on the planet will come to their "aid" .. Kabul will become the new Chicago .. wait, maybe we should stay a little longer ..

There are/were no innocents in Afganistan. Everyone is a potential enemy, unfortunately even the children. We should have learned this in Vietnam but evidently did not. We do not understand their culture and as a result allow them to do things that in our minds are just not right. Get out and stay out! Karzai is a thief and a puppet of the Taliban. If he were not, they would have already killed him.

Winning is the defense contractors, the Halliburtons and others of that ilk. Winning is the bankers loaning the money to mount such conflicts. Winning is the contractors getting the money to build the bases and weapons. Losing is the civilians caught in the middle. Losing is the young lives lost. Losing is the specter of yet another conflict that will profit the war profiteers.

There is no war. A war has stated goals and a defined enemy. This action in Afghanistan, much like the one in Iraq, has neither. This is American lives, money, and resources poured down a bottomless drain of deceit.

UDunno...Right! Just like Viet Nam was "not a war"...it appears we have learned nothing over the last 50 years!

Big Paul - I know you are paid on the number of responses you evoke so here is one on me. I know you are just trying to make a living.

Ironic to how they hold foreigners to a different standard.

I would just tell these people how it is; there's a war and these things happen, always has and always will. Then the need to remove these disruptions from a professional army is a necessity.

He will not bow and kiss their hands, he will bow and kiss their collective azzes.

Just don't try to define the word terrorist, or their reason for acting out against the occupation of their country.

Keep accepting what you are told and you won't have to think.

'Ol 'rule-of-thumb.' aggressors like the US/NATO/Israeli 'baby killers' are hated and killed. End of story.

"When Americans are killed by terrorists even when trying to help out, not a peep. But as soon as a rouge soldier kills theirs all hell breaks loss. Yeah, seems like a great effort, time, and money to help these people out."

Exactly. There's no point in helping something that does not want to be helped. You don't walk walk up to a bear in a bear trap and let him go. He just might take your head off.... You leave if it's not your trap or you kill it. Seeing as these people don't want our help, it's time to leave. It's not our country.

End of story

Cool since AZcowboy has declared the story dead I guess he will move on and not post anymore..........Right?

You can shout your BS all you want but you cannot justify the killing of 9 children! Yes, 9 children. What if they were your children? Would that be ok because afterall you are different? We never went to Afgan to help them - we went there to take over, level their infrastructure, take whatever we wanted, effect a regime change and set the country up for our western investors. And the world keeps on watching and a few more people were just added to the list of future terrorists who hate americans.

"When Americans are killed by terrorists even when trying to help out, not a peep."

Haha yea right. So no one heard about 9/11? That's the most well known terrorist attack and people are still hating on all Muslims for it. But this case? Most people will probably forget it after a week or two.

Well, Irene, guess you should also include all the Afghans killed by drone strikes and bombs and missiles. Lots and lots of children dead and...yes, you're right, killed to further the war machine. Look at what happened in Libya, note how the contractors were drooling and rubbing their hands for a chance to get in and start rebuilding that infrastructure. Many european contractors benefitted, ditto world banks. Not always just the Americans, but by golly, we sure do get involved in nation destructions so that they can be rebuilt. Obama and Panetta have both announced that their first and primary allegiance is to the UN. Screw the US of A, gotta look to the UN for authorizations.

No, it does not prove your point if your point is what you stated above.

The killing of children and other civilians is tragic and wrong. However, I have to blame the Taliban and the Afghan people for this tragedy. You cannot be deceitful without consequences. When American soldiers are killed because of a simple mistake of burning a book, then it is only a matter of time before his brother in arms snaps.

PSP: and when did "Barry" apologize for anything? Typical talking points from rightwing sheep.

Still waiting for anyone from the Reagan administration to apologize for killing off our Marines in Beirut, then cutting and running. Rightwing coward strategy: start wars, leave office, point blame at others like schoolyard sissies.

JK, you have got to be the stupidest person in PA

Yup.

I suppose you missed the part of the article that stated the crowd was chanting 'Death to America, Death to Obama'.

Those of you who unilaterally bash our President are a moronic bunch.

Yes MG. PSP fits right in with that group.

PSP: I can't read (arab) so I have no clue to what the signs say

See how easy it is to cherry pick and twist info to make you look like an uneducated fool? The Bush/Cheney/Fake Noise Network strategy of brainwashing the "moronic bunch".

Ah, yes... the old Bush/Cheney canard. Here's a bulletin for you: your messiah is the master of noise. Campaigning, posing for photo-ops, whining and blaming others is all he does. Never has a politician commanded so much media face-time in history. All he does is yammer when not playing golf. It's why he is a joke throughout the world and to everyone but his brainwashed worshipers. The "moronic bunch" is you. Stick to his Facebook page and get a new script. He's in charge now. Stop living in the past. Deal with it.

MG9...perhaps the afgans just think obama is a putz...just like me

Number one, there is no difference between the political parties, or any President in the last 100 years. The only difference is that they have the American people believing and arguing over differences between the parties that don't exist to keep us isolated and segregated arguing over Democrat vs. Republican.

This is one of the many propaganda methods used to keep the American public from asking real prevalent questions, like why are we at war ?

The propaganda machine was going on well before the Bush administration, actually started during Woodrow Wilson's presidency and continues to this day.

Don't be fooled or naive.

Super skunk. You finally said something I agree with. That probably means your wrong.

"I'm never wrong. I once thought I was wrong, turns out, I was mistaken."
- Unknown

You're awesome leroy, I love you !

Trial has been delayed (until June, I think) to allow the defense team more time to prepare...that's a crock in itself!

Exactly Steve K.

I hate innocents dying too, but these blood thirsty b@stards we're fighting brought this on themselves.

Afgan has no nukes - otherwise the US/NATO would not be in there destroying their infrastructure and killing innocent men, women and children. Any country that has no nukes is in danger of the same ending - Democracy is just a cover name for hegemony - and investors are already lined up to take Afgan - so we will never leave. If Iran doesn't get nukes in a hurry, the same will happen to them. And that is the sad, sad, truth of this whole affair.

1.4 million? I think 100 trillion is just as realistic. The real number is right around 120,000. Not sure where you got your numbers. Perhaps Move-on.org or Chris Matthews?

@doncat - 'soon'? 9/11 came and went, that was your false flag operation. What launched us into conflict over there? Yep, that's right. Insiders did that job, paid off by the elite and obscure in our government.

Csphilli: While I won't say you're wrong, I would love to see proof that 9/11 was an "inside job". Do you have any?

People need to wake up. We no longer are in control of our Government. We are Losing our rights with each Law we let them pass. Is this what you want?

Some people do, yes. Life is more comfortable for them when they don't have to think.

Send a message to the President and Congress, bring our troops home. Go to the link, sign the petition, show our soldiers and their families you care.

Don't forget to "Share" this post. I apologize for the copy and paste, but we need to get our soldiers home.

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-killing-americans-in-afghanistan

How about the two U.S. military officers shot and killed by their own Afghan secuirty forces in an Afghan Ministry Building? Did Karzi hand over the murderer?

gee I dunno I didn't read that article I only talked about this one and I'm not going to skim through all the articles just to go read that one, but I think anyone who kills innocent people for no reason should be handed over American or not.

How about the two U.S. military officers shot and killed by their own Afghan security forces in an Afghan Ministry Building? Did Karzi hand over the murderer?

Worth a re-post.

There was no offer to hand over the guys that killed our Officers, and there you have it.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If we truly think of ourselves as better then we need to act accordingly.

We cannot turn the shooter over to them. We would have to put a bullet in his head first.

yep