The wars since 9/11 have cost the US taxpayer almost $4 TRILLION and thousand of lives, and for what?

Bring our troops home now!

How many deployments are too many? This guy's been in high-intensity, nightmarish combat areas since 9/11!!! That just doesn't make sense.

These politicians who demand we get involved in more and more wars--like McCain & Graham--think soldiers are disposable assets. I don't hear them crying out for improved health care for soldier, better post-duty care & benefits. And whenever they go over to the mid-east, they bring with them a batallion of security people and helicopters.

Endless Wars are good for one thing -- boosting the profitability of War Contractors. We cannot shoot and kill the Mideast into compliance. That's not going to happen. Instead, we'll end up bankrupting this country and impoverishing its citizens.

With him being under similar conditions stateside I would also agree. But what is very important to note here is that he enlisted shortly after 9/11 which shows his fervent desire to do right for his country out of that terrible moment on September 11th which became an obsession and made him sacrifice his personal life. This was the ultimate factor which made him think that he had lost everything - while doing only his duty for his country. He ended this by blaming those 16 he killed recently for his family problems.

and you know this how.

Killing of civilians is a crime. I agree, but we always seem to be the only ones punishing our cirminals.

The people on all four airplanes, everyone in the twin towers, policemen, firemen and all those innocents that were beheaded were civilians too!!

Lets not forget that small detail.......!!!!!!

Kristian113

Get your facts straight. Osama was SADIE and his henchmen were Egyptian. Al Qaeda was Osam

You are now fighting the Taliban whom NEVER attack US territory You got Osam so what the hell are you still in Afghanistan for attacking the Taliban.

The Taliban are the same as the Mexicans, just big drug dealers. and trained by the US to get the Russkies out of Afghanistan and now busy to get the US out of Afghanistan.

This was war like Iran was a politcal / bussiess war. The same guys (repubs mainly) that are now screaming to atack Iran and Syria.

So going broke ready for the next one, Iran?

Hmmm... if someone tried to "help" me in a way that involved dropping bombs around my house for years and killing-- sometimes "accidentally" and sometimes quite intentionally my innocent noncombatant relatives-- I might be somewhat less than thankful.

This issue doesn't fall on the war, the war effort, or with deployment, it falls on his chain of command, and his battle buddies, for not recognizing that he wasn't sound enough to carry a weapon. Somebody should have noticed something.

TX, raining hellfire on Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 10 years was not a punishing act? Let's not forget we've made them pay, we've made their families pay, we've made their countrymen pay, we've even made bystanders pay as is evident in these senseless murders.

This thought is so indicative of opposing sides in any given conflict. We fail to see through the eyes of our "enemy" and they fail to see through our eyes and the notion of punishment for crimes becomes cyclical.

Do you think the insurgents will feel justified in attacking NATO troops now? And when they do will we then feel justified in a drone strike on their family homes? Cyclical and sad.

Great, he admitted that he did it.

Can we move on from this please? It's no longer of interest.

Sorry this what it should bave been

This was war like Iraq, a politcal / bussiess war. The same guys (repubs mainly) that are now screaming to atack Iran and Syria.

Stop blaming the sodiers, they have done their job as they have been ordered too..

Unlike the politicians that declare wars and then go running and hide.

It has been said before. War is where young men die for old men grievences.

Feel sorry for the boys and girls that come back from this mess that they have not created but our leaders have done.

littlechanges

Despise your leaders who send them there under false pretences. i.e. the bastards lied again

And yes he, they, should not have done it and now be appropiately punished

a lot of good comments on here. too bad Congress and Senators don't read these and make some INTELLIGENT and backboned decisions.

I hope President Obama comes out of his shell (narrow band of Advisers in his National Security) and think it (the Afghan situation and whether our troops should be there at all) through one more time, with a clean slate of mind.

There are two alternatives here.

1. Stick to the earlier agreed upon 2014 timeline for withdrawal (which is seen by many in the military and political circles as face saving date).
2. Remove our troops except for say 10,000 soldiers to protect our interest there.

In alternative 1, by staying till 2014, would NATO troops be able to make Afghanistan more stable, more productive country than it is in 2012. Perhaps very little.

In alternative 2, if we remove NATO troops, say within the next 6 months, do you think would we be crating a situation worse than it is today? Most likely yes, but only by a margin. Pakistan ISI would come into Afghanistan and try to destabilize Afghanistan through its proxies and the story of Taliban and Mujaheddin might repeat itself. Can we avoid it, if we stay there until 2014? Most likely not.

So, I say, "President Obama, your advisers are not serving you well and so, let us get the hell out of Afghanistan ASAP. We will save our face as well as money."

So we don't get to know who this is for weeks? While Jared Loughner was identified immediately. Strange. Also, this guy appears to have targeted the women and children, why? Because he was pissed at his own wife and children? Great. Just another misogynist a-hole. Think his wife had already figured that out?

Let's see. Guns, constant fear of being killed, seeing people being killed and all the while standing in the middle of this mess called war he was subjected to everyday. I'm surprised it was just 16 people he killed. That soldier had seen enough and this is the result. Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to the real war. A war this soldier just couldn't handle.

you can not keep a solider, policeman,fireman in constant combat for almost 5 years and not expect a % of them to crack; what he did is horrible, what we have done is criminal .

@FJB. We have a Congress and Senators?!?! Where have they been?

this guy is congressman material...the article said he had brain damage...

littechanges...that's a mighty wide brush stroke you are using.......it's been my experience that people who stroke with such a wide brush are usally just showing of their ignorance and lack of common sense. not ALL soldiers are Baby Killers and the name Baby killer is not justified.

I think from experience that the government should put a limit on the number of tours/deployments that a solder should be made to do. While I never went to the Middle east to fight and have no real idea of what it is like I did do three tours in Vietnam. I can say the first tour most soldiers are afraid of dying, and the second tour they are over the fear of dying but it is replace by the fear of getting captured/POW which in most cases is or can be worst than dying, and the third tour "adrenaline kicks in and this is where the soldier changes because they start to enjoy the "hunt" at least that's what happened to me. I did not come home and want to kill people so saying they would have done that here is nothing more than stupidity speaking.

What this soldier did was wrong there is no doubt about that but the Government is just as much to blame as he is because they should never have deployed him for more than three tours.....

"...and for what?"

How many of you chameleons were out front on Sep 12 with flags, red shirts, yellow ribbons screaming, "USA, USA, USA"? You thought you were going to a pep rally?

The people on all four airplanes, everyone in the twin towers, policemen, firemen and all those innocents that were beheaded were civilians too!!

Lets not forget that small detail.

No one's forgotten that (well, except for that commentator on Fox who couldn't remember a single terrorist attack on American soil during the Bush administration--poor guy, I hope someone set him straight). But we're supposed to be better than they are. That means that, if we see the slaughter of innocents as a bad thing, we don't want one of our military personnel going out and slaughtering innocents.

Did we hear Prez B.O. show this much concern when that muslim nutcase Nidal Hasan shot and killed 13 people at Fort Hood? Hasan wasn't even labled what he really was after it was all over: an islamic terrorist.

I wish we could get out of the middle east already. Those people are hopeless and they are difinately not worth losing any more young American lives over.

Loneranger good post thanks for the insight. I agree they certainly are not all baby killers and they certainly are not all heroes either...lets keep it honest.

And yes he, they, should not have done it and now be appropiately punished

Punished? For what?

Being driven to complete madness by being over-deployed, over-worked, insulted and used like borrowed tools and then finally snapping under a hellish system of management that most of us couldn't even begin to understand or process?

Yeah, that'll show 'em - Smart comment, dude ;)

Boffer......I as a REAL Vietnam Vet have a question for you......you said " Yes I know..I was in NAM.." so you are telling us you are a Vietnam vet also, but in January 2012 you said Quote: " It isn't about laziness.I'm 50 and can outwork you anyday of the week..." you are telling us you are 50 years old so that means you would have been born in 1960. So again PLEASE tell us how you managed to fight in Vietnam at such a young age......you were what 4 to 13 years old.....I smell a bold face LIE!!!!!!!!!!

There was time when the US got involved in a war it was for nobility. There were no riches in Vietnam, but 58,000+ died as a result of our commitment against Communism. Now we fight for the interests of the corporations that buy the elected officials they help to seat. There are huge corporate interests in Afghanistan's mineral deposits. We all need to face the fact that what is in the interest of major US corporations is our foreign policy, and yes it is that flaky.

As for what happened in this case, what a tragedy. Speaking as someone that served two tours in beautiful southeast Asia, you simply cannot imagine the horror. Atrocities do happen in every war, even those they dress up and call a police action. They are always unfortunate, regrettable, and lasting. The bodies of women and children murdered will never win the hearts and minds of those we meant to help. It was a mission run by politicians much like Vietnam, and it was a mission that took too long for the same reason.

LoneRanger01- it's funny how many people have claimed to be Viet Nam vets yet would have only been 2-12 years old during the war. Guess there must have been some little known pre-pubescent units out there looking for Charlie

PLEASE tell us how you managed to fight in Vietnam at such a young age......you were what 4 to 13 years old..

Maybe he was a VC. I hear they could be pretty young.

Do you suppose that is what they mean when they say "baby Killer" ( a pre-pubescent soldier) .....There isn't anything worst than a military poser, in my opinion, they are just as low as Hanoi Jane and pedophiles......It's funny what gave him away is the word "Nam"..Most Veterans that I know only use Nam, In country or On the Reservation, when Talking to another Vet. When we talk to civilians we say Vietnam.....Guess he must have just watched one too many Rambo movies.....

@LEV-

there's a reason someone collapsed your comment! hopefully that one will be collapsed as well!

for Rick-3416939

There are huge corporate interests in Afghanistan's mineral deposits. We all need to face the fact that what is in the interest of major US corporations is our foreign policy, and yes it is that flaky.

Sorry to piss on your parade Rick. But Karzai and his buddies have already signed large contracts with China and India, and the USA was not invited.

And yes, the mineral resources are suppose to be among the largest in the world.

So here we go again American kids have died for NOTHING in Afghanistan for the pleasure of Dick Cheney and Haliburton and friends.

Next Iran, so who want to go. Any voluteers?

I put money on it that Israel will goad the US in to doing the dirty work for them. War is bussiness and don't you for get that. Patriotism has nothing to do with that.

It is all for the money and if you don't have it that is just tuff sh*t for Wall Street and their buddies.

Hello folks, there is a report that more than one soldier was involved. In the Press TV report they stated that U.S. soldiers were involved in the shootings and the burning of at least 7 of the victims bodies. I'm looking for more confirmations that this was done by more than one person.

obama/bush have given drone strike orders that kill hundres, and roughly %10- %25 innocent women and children... where is their capitol punishment?

LevTolstoy2- We took out a government (yes they were our pawns at one time) that killed their own civilians daily. They constantly were under watch from human rights groups. They admit their atrocities, in the name of Islam. We did help them, and just like every other country we help, they turn on us. Plus, they allow the violence of Islam to take hold of their country because they are afraid. The one thing I will admit to is this, we did not know the lengths that these murderers would go. We did not know that they would willing hang a 6 year old boy. Just last year. Look it up. Should these people be allowed to kill their own? Just because it is not in our country? I am glad I served my country during these times filled with morons, bleeding hearts, hypocrites, and conspiracy nuts.

I don't condone what this man did, but I can sure as hell understand what could've led him to do it. We're not all made up the same. This man snapped. I jsut hope the a**holes judging him here don't ever have to be put in the same spot

We are not terrorist nor should we act like them, plain and simple....

Against union thievery; you hit the nail on the head. obama didn't say a word about the killings at Ft. Hood. Well, he did say that we as Americans have to be calm, and understand how this could happen, and not to blame this man Hasan, for he was under a lot of stress, as he was a devout muslim! YET, our great pres. has threw this soldier under the bus. I wouldn't be surprised if obama turned this soldier over to the taliban. Yes, this soldier commited a great crime. Is he mentally ill? We don't know yet, do we. He definitly did too many tours. What I'm saying is , obama told us to give the man who went on a killing rampage at Ft. Hood, the benefit of a doubt, BUT, immediatly condemed this soldier, with no knowledge of his condition. GREAT PRES!

how many times do we need to do this to our troops????? come on government..........step in their boots just one day............it is sad..........but what price do they need to pay..........we did the same thing in viet nam and our soldiers were shunned.........and we lost way more ppl in our armed forces..........and then they are treated like freaks when they come back...........oh guess what.......they live in unbelievable conditions......watching their buddies being blown up in front of them every day.........give me a break!!!!!!! how do you think they could ever be normal again. i agree with a previous post........how many tours is enough? mr. military and mr. government.........give them a break. you are tucked away in your more than cozy surrounding's and the secret service watching over all of. granted we are safe also because men and women are willing to give their lives to protect us. you don't need to take a bullet to be dead............just live their lives. i pray to GOD for his guidance for this soldier. is there a mental issue here.......you bet. so now let's make an example HIM of because he was mentally torture everyday!!!!! give me a break. please help him and all the armed forces. they live in HELL so we can be safe. justice!!! really.........i hope all of you can move forward with a clear mind. GOD BLESS AND HELP EACH AND EVERYONE OF ARMED FORCES. wake up......we are hurting our own troops............

leave the middle east alone those nut's will kill each other off...what a bunch of religious scum bags...

I wouldnt waste our money or soilders lives on people like these , Iran or any other country over there except Israel , when Russia pulled out they should of nuked them , we use to kick the crap out of little countries that bad mouthed us, I would bomb Iran and afganastan of the face of the earth to be a warning to the rest of them that want to shoot off their mouths about America , but we have to many wimps in this country any more.

Come on, haven't any of you gotten pissed off and blown away a bunch of Afghany citizens? This guy just need's a little counceling! No Xbox for a month

Veteran 44, I agree with everything you said. No more was heard about that azzhole Hasan, he was nothing more than a Muslim terrorist. Let's not forget that this prez, if you want to call him that, is nothing but a muslim loving idiot. What we all got to fear now is if this azzhole wins another term we will all be praying to allah. I can't stand him, I never voted for him and would vote for a dog before voting for this idiot in charge. I believe we should bring our troops home and let Afghanistan fend for themselves. We need to blow up the middle east. Amen.

so now let's make an example HIM of because he was mentally torture everyday!!!!! give me a break.

Yeah right. Assuming he's guilty (which looks likely) I don't think anyone who gets the death penalty for executing 9 children and 7 adults is being made and example of. If anyone deserves capital punishment he does. He killed one guy's wife and 8 children. If that was your wife and 8 children I bet you wouldn't be eager to turn the other cheek. I'm sure it's a tough job but there are many who do it that manage somehow not to go on a murder spree.

How terribly amusing that some of my pro-genocide friends have managed for a second time to collapse a comment referring to this serviceman as a toddler-killer. One would think that they would want to explain exactly why he is not a toddler-killer, but no...

Remember when we, as a nation, used to be bothered by people who kill children in cold blood? The only difference between this guy and Casey Anthony is that the kids weren't his and he got more than one. Maybe because these children were Afghan that makes it okay with some of you. I think it makes him a monster.

How many deployments are too many? This guy's been in high-intensity, nightmarish combat areas since 9/11!!! That just doesn't make sense.

because he was on his 4th tour. a tour, is 18 months long. 3 X 1.5= 4.5 means from we will say, 2002, he was deployed, still thats only 4.5 yrs out of 10 years. means since 9/11 he has had 5 1/2 of those years non combat, and perhaps training involved in between tours. he had a head injury, but i dont think he was laid up for 5 yrs, or even a year.

How many deployments are too many? This guy's been in high-intensity, nightmarish combat areas since 9/11!!! That just doesn't make sense.

Really? He is a volunteer, trained to defend himself. If you are an Iraqi or Afghani civilian, you are in a high-intensity nightmarish combat area since 9/11. How long is too long for them?

I agree w/ byron, we should have went over there and wiped their arses clean for them and came home. Only thing is, if we did that; they would have not been able to make much money from it.

LevTolstoy2- Seems like you are trolling just to get some attention. This person did kill kids. He did kill humans. He should pay the ultimate price for his actions if he is deemed mentally fit. I say that as someone who saw violence. Much worse in person. I can say that the person who leaves a camp, and slaughters people in their sleep has some mental issues. That is common sense. But to start labeling just for recognition on a web page is moronic.

This person did kill kids. He did kill humans. He should pay the ultimate price for his actions if he is deemed mentally fit.

And that is the problem I have with this whole tragic affair - WHY ON EARTH did he do it??? I don't suppose hearing whatever his reason is will really be satisfying, but I just don't understand it. Were the victims chosen at random, or did the families offend him in some way? What does his marital problems have to do with anything??? Like the guy in California who shot up a beauty salon, except I think his wife worked there, but still it makes no sense. If your mad at person A, why go into another room and shoot a bunch of Bs and Cs? Lots of other soldiers (the vast majority, IMO) have had multiple deployments AND marital problems, and THEY aren't breaking into homes and shooting to kill. I imagine his brain injury has alot to do with it - but that's no excuse, this was a planned and organized attack. Whatever his reason, he needs to pay the price, either death penalty or institutionalized for the rest of his life. I just pray the Taliban don't cut off some innocent soldier's head, like they're threatening to.

T Bourlon- It is hard to imagine what this person did. But anyone with a shred of common sense can see that this is a mentally ill person. The human mind can turn fragile in a second. That sadly is the truth. As someone who has seen the aftermath of a suicide bombing, each person deals with it in their own way. I am lucky. But you can see in someones eyes that they are not on our planet. He should pay for his crimes, but in my opinion I think he is mentally ill. There are details of his previous and currant deployments that will not come out. How much death this person had to deal with. Sometimes one death is enough for some people.

TBourlon.......you ask "WHY ON EARTH did he do it???"...then you say ," this was a planned and organized attack..." Please nor being rude but don't pee down our backs and tell us it is raining.....If you asking how this could happen then how on earth do you know it was a planned and organized attack?

You like most are using such a wide paint brush to compare all soldiers with. The fact is in combat every soldier acts and responds to the fight differently. Most do better than others and some just can't handle the stress. Everyone does at some point have a breaking point in which they snap.

Most people think a soldier just goes over there and does what they are taught/trained to do and comes home. Well it just isn't that simple. A soldiers fears being killed, Civilians don't, a soldier has to deal with death on a weekly basis and some times daily, a civilian doesn't. A soldier has to deal with losing a close friend every time there is a fire fight or an explosion, a civilian doesn't. Until you've been laying in the mud next to your best friend who has just been killed by the enemy or until you have shot and killed your first person/enemy don't tell us how you think a person should act. Because you have no idea and like I said every soldier acts and responds differently, some better than others.

Again I say there is no doubt that what this soldier did was wrong, but to say there is no excuse for it is a pure sign of stupidity and ignorance. There is always a reason why someone does some thing right or wrong there is a reason, whether or not it is justifiable is a matter for the courts, not us to decide.

and "Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go"

If our troops are this mentally unstable, maybe bringing them home isn't such a good idea.

I cannot believe our military would send him into combat after knowing he had medical issues. Bring our men and women home, that country has been fighting each other for over 200 years if not more. I am sorry those people were killed, but I am also sorry that one of our boys was not helped, before he broke. He should not be tried over there just to make a point. Bring him home.

Robert, out of curiosity, what makes you think you're less of a "rat" than those people he killed?

This is one big f--king mess. How did this soldier get off a FOB without detection? Did he have assistance? Did he really act alone? Brain injury in 2010, PTSD claims and sent to another combat zone...from FT Lewis. What a joke that military installation is, that installation Commander all the way down thru his First Sgt needs to be fired and then CID, then the IG then some of the doctors at Madigan hospital, wow, did I say what a joke...The SSgt should have never been sent into combat again, but now he has to pay for his crimes, but an entire military and an entire American people are not to blame.

IT WASNT A FOB, for the 40th time. It was a Combat Outpost if anything. More like an encampment used for VSO operations in the region where soliders (both ANA and SF/support) live and commune among local villages and take part in elder Shura meetings. Stop spewing disinformation....its a relatively new program and just spinning up as most of the other bases send troops home.

I'm sure 99.99% of the troops would not agree that it is ok to kill civilians for entertainment and that people like you make them sick.

Okie -It is not unusual at all to send troops who are not physically or mentally ready into combat areas. They only care about having enough boots on the ground. The higher ups get some military doctor to sign off that the soldier is fit, whether he is or not, and ship them off.

To those intent on communicating their points via TLA's (three letter acronyms): it may make you sound "cool" and "badass", but to some of us (most? me in particular) you just sound like an annoying ass.

See if your point is to convey a point, it is very helpful if you use a common language. Otherwise, it's a waste of your time and mine.

Flame suit on.

I have a hard time accepting excuses for this sergeant. He murdered civilian children while they were sleeping in their beds. I can think of nothing that justifies that. Nothing. You think in the whole country of Afghanistan he's the only one who has had multiple combat tours, or the only one who's ever had a head injury?

The U.S. military is filled to the gills with plain old useless phucked up loser young male thrill killers. That's why they signed up for a government job that entails traveling to another country to legally kill everything in sight. Or in this case, bash the head of animals trapped in a room.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/315911

In the Army its SSG not SSGT

This wasn't one of our "boys". This guy was almost 40....supposed to be a man by then.

@Dave

I totally agree. There is nothing that makes what he did ok. Because he's suffering from some post-war whatever is not an excuse. Hell half the people serving over there are dealing with an abundance of issues! The horror of what he did to all those children while sleeping, so innocent. Terrible. Too bad he didn't turn the gun on himself right after!

Who is the world was this soldier trying to hurt? His wife now has a very good reason for leaving him, if she didn't have a very good reason prior to this incident. In reality, he hurt every single American because he knows the reaction and threats this will bring about. Killing women and children is absolutely key in this situation. He's on the verge of losing his own family and, I suppose, wanted someone else or a whole lot of someone else(s) to feel it too. I can't imagine the pain of the surviving family members. I do have to question the sense of anyone who thinks sending troops out for 4 tours in any war is a smart thing to do. Adding insult to injury, this soldier is suffering from PTSD and a prior brain injury. It all seems so surreal to me. This is not good. . .very not good.

How come it's always a US soldier? Nato is over there also, Is it too far fetched to think he might be have been set up? Just a thought.

(*Sings*) " --and you can get - anything you want - at Alice's restauarant..."

OK. I don't condone killing Innocent civilians but it is apparent that most of these post's have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Unless you have been there, or you have read every book on the war that you can get your hands on as I have, then you are clueless. Nothing in the news tells the real story about either war. The regular Army is so screwed up from the Commanders down. No discipline and basically filled with less than desired personnel because of a shortage for the surge. The Special Force guys are truly professionals as well as the Marines/Recon, and Navy Seals. First and for most, the Marines are not nation builders, peace keepers, or negotiators. They are the fighting force, period. Taliban fear the Marines more than Allah himself. They call them Fierce Warriors!

Some Army Battalions are better than others but they have been given Rules of Engagement which are absolutely pathetic. Lets say your platoon goes out of the base on a patrol each day, and get blown up by an IED's planted in the road, in a neighborhood somewhere daily. You have killed and injured comrades daily from the bombs and absolutely nobody in the neighborhood has seen anything or even acknowledge a bomb had been detonated?!?!? Is it any wonder that some of these soldiers break? Seriously? The Wrong War is a good read on the Afghanistan monstrocity. Read it so you won't continue to prove your an idiot.

Unless you have been there, or you have read every book on the war that you can get your hands on as I have, then you are clueless.

In other words, you haven't been there, either. Ah, the hubris of the armchair quarterback!

I can't help but wonder if you'd be singing the same tune had he killed innocent American women and children.

The reasons why he did it are irrelevant, frankly. There is simply no excuse for what he did. And it is important that we show ourselves and the rest of the world we won't stand for actions like that.

You may be right ... but we don't know if his squad was ambushed and/or one or more of his close buddies killed ...or what set him off.

Don't presume the guy just went off cuz he had a bad day. These guys are under the worst possible stress and they deserve maybe a tad more benefit of the doubt. Im not saying let him walk free ...but come on.

Doesn't really matter, he knew he'd done wrong given he was found lying prone on open ground and admitting guilt. Beyond that, he still killed 16 people, including 9 children and 3 women. Where's the compassion for those families? Or do you think all Afghan's were part of the Taliban, AQ, and terrorist activities?

I feel for our troops, I really do, but you know....not every soldier is going AWOL and murdering people. Many of them having served just as long as this man, are still functioning, or, doing the right thing and seeking counsel. Making excuses for murder...now that's the American way.

Well let's see...he killed 16 civilians and he should just get what...court-martialed. My ass...death by firing squad without a blind fold.

By asking to hear the reasons then you are saying you could personally find it acceptable for him to have killed 9 kids along with their families. I guess for your identity name to be "The Company" would reflect an attitude of acceptable losses no matter what the situation was, right?

brotherhiggy-

um...I think you have me confused with Steve.

soldiers kill enemy soldiers. Not women and children.

We need to court marshal him and than kill him by firing squad in Afghanistan. There are no words that can explain away what he did and why pay for him to have appal after appal when he confessed.

The reason is simple...Some moron doctor said he was fit to return to war after his brain injury !!!

A friggin brain injury...Really!!! do you send someone back to war after that? I don't think so !!!

I think he wants his death.

I kind of see what point Steve is trying to make.. But if he were having a "bad day", people don’t normally go off shooting people. There are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany other ways to let off steam. Besides that, it kind of sounds mediated seeing as how he had to travel, without being seen, to the village. So I don't see how you can think this was just a 'living in the moment' kind of deal.

The Company

brotherhiggy-

um...I think you have me confused with Steve.

Must... or else is just confused?

D.R.P. - suuuuuuure we do that! Look at us in sports. Brain injury/concussion - let em heal a few days and throw them back on the field.

D.R.P

The reason is simple...Some moron doctor said he was fit to return to war after his brain injury !!!

A friggin brain injury...Really!!! do you send someone back to war after that? I don't think so !!!

Happens all the time...soldiers to the government = assets = money = get as much use out of them as you can.......

Who the flip cares what set him off.

There are no "mitigating circumstances" that excuse the slaughter of innocent women and children. I'd go one step further than Philipp. Death by firing squad without a blind fold - and I'd allow the families who had loved ones slain to be the ones pulling the triggers. And before I hear any crap about "You wouldn't respond that way if it was your child"... oh hell yes I would. My sons know right from wrong and they know that there are consequences for bad choices.

I don't like Afghanistan. I don't think our troops should be there and I think the sooner we throw up our hands and say "f--k it", the better off we are and the better off they are. You want to solve the problem of Afghanistan? Get our people out. The only people who can solve the problem of Afghanistan are the Afghani people. They have to develop the sweat equity toward securing their own future. Freedom that's given doesn't have the same value as freedom that's fought to secure.

This soldier just put every other soldier there in even greater jeopardy. The Taliban seeks vengence and now the civilians will too.

While 4 tours is too much for anyone, there are others soldiers who have served just as long.

By his acts he makes the US look no better than the Taliban. Children?? Under 6 years of age?? There is no excuse.

And the fact he was lying prone in an open space (so he would not be shot) and then immediately refuses to talk and demands an attorney. Oh yeah. This guy knew exactly what he was doing.

Luckily the military doesn't mess around like our civilian courts do. If he's sentenced to death as he should be, they'll carry it out.

Just noticed Just My Words' post. I was going to say the same thing. We drive on the roads all the time with people who have brain injuries. I don't know about the rest of you, but I know I had at least one concussion as a child. Guess what... that's a brain injury.

Women & Children not the right thing to have done. But unless you have or are walking in his shoes, or any of our military personnel's shoes, it is easy to sit here on our computers and condemn others. bad things always happen, remember back to Viet Nam. Atrocities happened there also. Being in a war zone repeatedly and someplace where you are not wanted to begin with, makes for a different situation. This guy will go through the legal process let that be where we feel justice will prevail. Time we bring our people home and put the $$ in our economy. No matter how long we are in Iraq or Afghanistan, those people need to want to have changes enough that they themselves work toward that goal.

There is simply no excuse for what he did.And it is important that we show ourselves and the rest of the world we won't stand for actions like that.he still killed 16 people, including 9 children and 3 women. Where's the compassion for those families?soldiers kill enemy soldiers. Not women and children. But if he were having a "bad day",received a troubling letter or email from his wife. people don’t normally go off shooting people.he made USA look bad because he was having a bad day well i had all kids of bad day's you don't see me going out and killing people no we get help and try to fix are problems not kill killed innocent people .entire military and an entire American people are not to blame.for what he did he should pay for what he did and i pray for their families and the soldiers families it is a very sad day for everyone but yes he should pay for what he did and may god be with us all

Hello Michaele09,

Look, we all sympathize with the troops and anyone who has to live under such abysmal conditions. I agree that these troops need our support and patience so they can put their lives back together.

But regardless of how traumatized he was, he killed innocent people in cold blood and there is just no way to justify that. I pose this question again, had he killed American citizens-your family and neighbors perhaps, would your reaction be quite so timid?

pacopoop- I would like to call you out for the fact that your first two sentences are plagiarized from a post I made earlier. And various bits and pieces are remarkably similar to other posts I have read here. Quite being lazy. If this continues I'll alert the mods.

"A friggin brain injury...Really!!! do you send someone back to war after that? I don't think so !!!"

A friggin brain injury most likely refers to a concussion, a very common injury. I have no doubt that concussions can cause behavioral issues, but I also have no doubt that you wouldn't call for the release of all criminals who have suffered one.

There are no innocent civilians in Afganistan. They can/will kill you if the circumstances are right. That is all of them, even the children.

Yes, everyone knows that a TWO YEAR-OLD WHO WAS SLEEPING WHEN SHE WAS SHOT was clearly, clearly a threat. I suppose that you're ready to ship out and kill some toddlers at point blank then, right? Are you such a big man that you are afraid of a two year-old?

but what are the reasons before we sentence him to death.

Well for starters how about killing 9 children execution style not to mention the adults. So you think if he came back to the US and killed American children a lot of people would still be asking for leniency? I doubt it. Maybe you would. This is FAR from something done in the heat of action. This was premeditated.

Everyone do yourselves a favor and don't respond to Shadow anymore....he's just going from thread to thread trying to piss everyone off. The definition of a troll....nothing to respond to in any of his comments.

There are no innocent civilians in Afganistan.

Desperate for attention, Shadow?

To the company; We have witnessed the slaughter of innocent men , women, and childern, 9-11!! We also witnessed the needless slaughter of soldiers at Ft. Hood! What was done about that? NOTHING!! obama saw fit to tell us to not to get to mad about this killer, as he was a devout muslim, and we had to have conpassion. Well, kiss my grits!!

Veteran44 --

What did Bush do about it -- ? 9-11 was under his watch and instead of going after Osama - he sent our troops after Saddam.. (Strictly Business son!) -- Do you consider how many innocent Muslims died in the 9-11 twin towers also?, since there were many overseas energy companies in those towers?

Obama - Got Osama!.. and the Fort Hood attacker is currently in jail and his (Death Penalty) case is being worked through the courts. This guy is about to go through the courts too - and the death penalty applies to him too..and yes he is the exception to the rule, and not indicitive of the majority of our troops.

But by your book apparently all Muslims are terrorist... We Christian Americans are not saintly, and we do our evils too just like all races and religions do. We are no better or moral than them. We have brought death and destruction to their soil many many times. Much more than they have brought it to ours.. So deal with it !-

Levs you said; TWO YEAR-OLD WHO WAS SLEEPING WHEN SHE WAS SHOT and I say, you wont have to worry about her doing anything when she is a little older. Do you not know they will do what ever it takes to kill the infidels as soon as they learn how? We should ever go to war with anyone, we have lost our gumption to fight at all anymore. You cry out awwww the poor women and children, yet it is these that grow up to fight you and the women just keep birthing the little bastards.

Yet I must agree we need to leave and drop a couple of MOABS, or, just maybe our Russian friends would allow us some of the FOABs and we could drop a couple of these on the way out. I bet the Ruskies are laughing their arses off at us at this point.

Are you f'ing kidding me??? You think a man who served his country and suffered because of it deserves the death penalty, whereas there are many others out there who've killed WAY more people ON PURPOSE and all they get is a slap on the wrist??? I'm not condoning his actions, but I don't think he should die over it.

Okay--I'll bite. What person has killed more than 16 people--including 9 children--in cold blood got a "slap on the wrist"? Waiting . . . .

There are men in the US who have killed their wives who have gotten a slap on the wrist. There are white people in Texas who murdered black people in cold blood and never even got prosecuted. Lt. Calley arranged the murder of a whole village and only served 3 years of house arrest--but he was in Vietnam.

But, 9 children? In cold blood? Unless you are talking about historical events and/or events outside of the US, I don't think so. Name one.

OMy,

those 16 dead and 4 wounded shouldnt have paid for his anger at his wife's e-mail to him either. He didnt just kill them, then then proceded to desecrate their lifeless bodies by wrapping them in blankets and setting them on fire. Were the blankets to help spread the flames to 100% of the bodies? And why the desecration of thier lifeless bodies .... did he do more to those babies than just execute them in the beds and found it necessary to "destroy the physical evidence" of what else he may have done? They shouldnt have had to die for his actions ... and his actions have made him a mass murderer of babies. Where was their "right to life" .... obviously he had no compassion nor respect for their innocent lives or even their deaths. Why the hell do you for his????

He obviously had no control over his anger issues and as stated above, may have done the same thing on US soil if he had been home. Perhaps his wife informed him she wanted a divorce, just didnt dare tell him in person and waited until he was 1/2 way around the world to do so to keep herself and their kids safe.

No one has a clue .... we are all speculating .... and anyone's speculation at this time is just a valid as someone else's speculation.

Be careful though in your speculations ... he very well may have been a wife abuser and a pedafile ... or just a christian soldier who wanted to make sure he split some muslim blood before having to come home - he was specifically there to peacefully assist in the power of authority transition back to the Afghanis so we could bring our troops home.

How about drug lords? How about people who've killed scores of illegals on their property and then buried them? Just look up a list of serial killers either around the world or in the US, not all of them were even convicted, some are in prison for life, others have been executed. There are still people out there who have been suspected, but never actually convicted even though people "know" they did it. Then there are others who pay their way out of the nasty crimes they've committed. Let me ask you this: if this soldier had shot 16 Afghan full grown, male soldiers in cold blood, would you still consider it wrong?

If he was defending himself from their deadly assault - no. If he rounded them up and was killing them in cold blood just because he could and did so because he had to relieve some of his anger because his wife pissed him of, HELL YES!!!

Essentially the soldiers are paying for their leaders mistake. The leaders can't admit they are wrong so the soldiers must stay. Because the leaders know that as soon as they leave the taliban will be back in power.

Buck, this man could have snapped just as easily if he wasn't a soldier and living stateside.

These murder/suicides happen all the time when certain minds get news or messages they can't take.

Shame some of them don't do the suicide part first, if that's the route they are taking.

And it doesn't mean a rats ass who is in power after we leave, does it?

Interestingly, he is of sound enough mind to lawyer up and shut up, so there's something far more sinister at work in this guy. Asolutely, 4 deployments is just plain ridiculously wrong, and knowing that he was diagnoses PTSD and had a "minor brain injury" has legitimate bearing on his mental state, but he seems to be making his post-killing decisions with a bit of sanity. Again, whatever is pulsing through this man's veins is heinous indeed.

yes...bring them home now.

i thot the purpose of the invasion was to find bin laden. done.

come home. america will never learn that we can't make the world the way we want it.

Ha ha! Tell that to the Republicans who think God is telling them to be his instrument and use America to "free" the world. Every time Obama mentions anything about the military, like cutting it down some or removing troops from foreign lands, he is painted as the biggest piece of anit-American dung on the planet. Can't bring the troops home when your political rival's mantra is "free the world and spread your religion to the heathens."

Yes, we need to get our people out of everybody elses business and take care of OUR nation for a change. We just can't seem to get everybody on that same page, though.

Not before giving every last one of them a full mental evaluation and then sequestering all the tens of thousands who don't pass and are a danger to their families, as well as to the general public.

at the end of the vietnam war i believed that never again would young men march off to war blindly believing in all the lies they were being fed to them by the government. the war protestors were insulted by spero agnew vp (nixon's front man) and called commie sympathizers and traders. some i knew sucked on pennies to qualify for 4f status--- others went to canada. after the war newspapers featured stories regarding the shameful neglect of returning injured vets. some vets wrote books of their experience in the war----slaughter of innocent civilians --''search and destroy missions'' where whole villages were left burning and all occupants dead. war is unleased evil---hell on earth. teach your children what war is all about----many fathers i knew told their sons to make them proud and go join up to defend your country. they sent their sons off and got back a body bag and a lifetime of regret. i have learned from vietnam that a parents first responsibility is to educate their children about war and to teach them that their first duty is self preservation. it's the law of nature. i watched the slaughter of the iranians fleeing saudi arabia with us helicopters fire bombing them and the crispy hands sticking out of the burnt cars. i knew then that this was just the beginning of this conflict. young men will always answer the call to defend their country-----wiser minds need to temper that enthusiasm with reality. gen douglas macarthur spoke to pres. johnson from his death bed and the irony is he pleaded with johnson not to go to war. at the end of his life he hated war. we need to hate war and see it for what it is ---madness!

Blame the Freakin Republicans. The BLOOD is on thier hands.....How many more wars will they get us in and leave someone else to clean up?

granny22

Well said!!!!

Really, we're still going to blame bush for this? The goal was to capture Osama Bin Laden. that was done nearly a year ago. THIS president (the one we have now - NOT THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN GONE FOR NEARLY FOUR FRICKIN YEARS) touts that accomplishment EVERY CHANCE HE GETS. His campaign said we needed to BE IN AFGHANISTAN - THAT WAS WHERE THE REAL WAR SHOULD HAVE BEEN. Well, he got Osama and WE'RE STILL THERE!! According to Democrat Dogma - the day after we got Bin Laden we should have packed up and gone home. THIS IS STILL GOING ON BECAUSE THE CURRENT COMMANDER IN CHIEF SAID WE NEEDED TO STAY.

That being said, as much as this is a tragedy, and this soldier should face charges for what happened (although this is one time I will submit the "not guilty by reason of insanity defense" holds an oceanful of water) The Commander In Chief essentially throwing this poor guy under the bus on the international stage isn't good for morale either. Had this guy been killed in the line of duty doing his job, we would revel him as a hero. but when he snaps, and after four tours of duty, separated from his wife and kids - we throw him out to the wolves.

Philipp-3856986:

Well let's see...he killed 16 civilians and he should just get what...court-martialed. My ass...death by firing squad without a blind fold.

Court Martial (martial means military) is a USA military trail and if he is found guilty, he will most likely receive the death penalty.

Civilians? How can anyone determine that as a fact? Lets wait for the facts to be uncovered.

Civilians? How can anyone determine that as a fact?

Assuming the reports are correct toddlers ARE ALWAYS civilians. A 2 year old is not a terrorist. He still deserves a trial but if convicted the death penalty is appropriate for this kind of crime.

@tit ... FYI: The U.S. has a 100% volunteer military. A very expensive one, at that. All told, with 1000 bases around the globe, VA benefits for life, MIC contractors, and the interest paid on the federal debt to fund the Pentagon, more than 70% of all federal taxes go to the U.S. military.

Not so, read a little more on the expenditures, this is not a rant forum.

All the schooling in the world couldn't help the " littlechanges" of the world.

we dont know if he will come home they could just turn him over to that country and be tried there if so and is found guilty he will be hanged that day or that week

Typical liberal. Don't you read? He will be tried by a military tribunal under the UCMJ. He will then be sent home to Ft. Levenworth to serve out his punishment, whatever it may be. You shouldn't comment if you can't read and don't know what you are talking about.

He volunteered for his tours. He had plenty of chances to "come home". He could not cut it here. Don't believe the head trama cr@p. As a kid I flew off my bike on a big hill. Hit my head on the sidewalk and knocked myself cold. I have never committed a crime. PTSD what a load of cr@p and a slap to the face to all the WW2 and Korea vets that went through much more.

While I agree troops are over-extended, this E-6 made a commitment to stay in the the Army. He joined after 9-11 and had at least one opportunity to re-enlistment for a either a non-combative MOS or to get out the Army altogether. Which what he should have done if he couldn't hack the repeated deployments or if it was effecting his family.

I joined on Nov 11,2001 two months after 9/11 and I had a 5 years commitment and 1 year involuntary commitment when I was stop-lossed. When my re-enlistment came up the Army was offering AFN in Italy (basically a deployment free, sham assignment) I told them "Hell NO!!!" I took my licks and I was done with the army. The strain on my wife and I and being apart was more than I could bare.

Also those assessment test they give you when you get back from deployments are a joke. You get a questionnaire asking if you need help and all you want to do is to get back to your family. So most soldiers just check all the blocks as quickly as possible to get through the screening. At least that the way it used to be.

Another idiot, Devil's Son, commenting on something he knows nothing about. He volunteered for his tours. Were you there? Did you see him begging to be sent on another combat tour? How do you know he couldn't "cut it here"? Why? Because he chose to make the military a career? Someone has to protect idiots like you. So you're saying the WWII and Korea vets didn't have PTSD. You're saying they came home and never had any problems? There's a big difference in the way those wars were fought and the way these are being fought. You know what they say, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

maxtor2009:

Thank you for serving your country.

Devilson is a reject that knows absolutely nothing about anything. WW2 and Korean War vets did not go through much more! Check your math about actual days of combat, no comparison what so ever. Just another Knowitall!

@ J in TX No need for name calling and Devils Son is partially correct. The SSG was not drafted into a war he volunteered. When your re-enlistment window is open it's time to take stock of your own personal situation. Get out or stay in. Every soldier in this volunteer Army is afforded the same opportunity. I was and so was he. The SSG was barely over his 10 year mark which you could argue made him indefinite but even then he had opportunities to get out if he was having family issues. No excuse for murder regardless of his situation.

maxtor2009:

Thank you for your service for your country.

THX Homer

That's all I ever asked for was a thanks. It's more than what my dad received returning from Vietnam.

J in TX, Do you think anything that has happened in Iraq compares to landing on the beach on D-day? Now you can remain silent since we know you are a fool.

That's a BS argument since President Bush put the military in to both of those countries and caused the mess to begin with. You need to think more logically about the world.

Bush didn't "cause" the mess, the Taliban did. Those who blamed Bush for Abu Ghraib either have to similarly blame Obama for these two incidents, he's been in the White House for over three years and it's his war now, or they are total hypocrites trying to defend an incompetent President.

Apparently you are incapable of understanding proper English. This discussion was about assigning blame, just as the idiots on the left tried to blame something he could not control in Iraq (at least you found enough brain cells to realize that Abu Ghraib is in Iraq), these two incidents in Afghanistan were beyond Obama's control. The point I was making, I'll explain so your simple though patterns can maybe understand, is that Bush was not responsible for Abu Ghraib and those who tried to claim he was had better look to Obama as being responsible for this tragedy. Man you really are lame.

You two, "TheRealMerridian" and "johnjwins" need to get beyond the finger-pointing, political crap. I think the whole country and Congress were 'all for' going after who was responsible for 9-11. Bush just happened to be the President during that time. For argument sake, what would you, "johnjwins", have preferred President Bush do instead back then? What could a President, at the top of the chain of command, do to prevent an individual's action/mis-queues such as Abu Ghraib, the Koran burnings, and this? Direct more sensitivity training? Low-jack or put a shock-collar on every soldier? Sh!t happens! And I think the bad things that our troops are doing is unintentional. Whereas, the people (Taliban, Al-Qaida, the government, the warlords, etc..) in those countries are doing bad things intentionally. They all need to be held MORE accountable than this poor soldier. You think some Taliban asswipe is going to turn himself in after he/she just killed some innocents? Hell no!!! There's no excuse for what this soldier did. But it cannot be pinned on something silly and simple as GW or Obama. It makes me sick to my stomach when I see folks write comments like that. Join up and serve, or shut the hell up and stop making judgement on limited/speculative information.

RevKev, there was zero reason to invade Iraq. That is Bush's war, plain and simple. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. He was right to attack the Taliban in Afghanistan and totally wrong to go after Saddam. I can't believe were arguing about this almost 10 years after the fact. Iraq was a waste and everyone in the world aside from some republicans still holding on to the notion the George W Bush was a good President knows that fact.

That's some creative reckoning there, "Well Bush put them there!" so subsequently everything that is bad that happens after that is Bush's fault. So if your kid, which I know you probably have a few, does anything wrong, we can blame you? You put them on this earth right. Guess what, Obama has decreased the size of the military, that means less people to fill spots, do the math. The guy snapped and killed innocents. I don't like it but they should turn him over to the locals and let them handle it, it won't happen but unfortunately this will cost more American lives. As far as Abu Ghraib, are you serious? What happened there was bad, not trying to say it wasn't but its a far cry from what happens to Americans that have been on the other end of the stick. If you want to help out the people there, jump on a plane and see how welcome you are.

Give it up johny, you apparently don't understand simple logic. If you say Bush is responsible because he put the army in Iraq, then by your reasoning Obama is responsible for these last two incidents because he kept the army in Afghanistan. You can't have it both ways. BTW, Bush did not start the Iraq war, Saddam Hussein did back in the nineties. If Clinton had shown any leadership, U.N. inspections would have continued, and we wouldn't have had to go back into Iraq when Bush was in office.

Actually, it's "You're", but way to play the intellectually superior card.

Jessica, if you're referring to my statement, you had better take a remedial English course. "Your" is possessive, as in "your reasoning;" "you're" is a hyphenation for "you are."

johnjwins, You don't remember the world instability that Saddam was creating bewteen 1991 and 2003, do you? How old are you? The WMD that Iraq had was moved to Syria between that time, and if you trully don't think that there was any Al-Quida in Iraq to take care of, then I suggest you review the Iraq war 2005-2008 news reports. Why were they so prevalent in that country then? Did they travel there because we were there? Or was it because they were already there and we found out where they were making camp? I don't think you (nor I) know the answer to any of that, so please don't try to speculate on what you think the answers might be. We got rid of Saddam, who held the world hostage for over 10 years, and who terrorized his own people for longer than that. How is that a bad thing, even in light of the loss of life and resources in doing just that?

. I think the whole country and Congress were 'all for' going after who was responsible for 9-11. Bush just happened to be the President during that time. For argument sake, what would you, "johnjwins", have preferred President Bush do instead back then?

RevKev -- you were right. We were all for AFGHANISTAN and bringing the people responsible for 9-11 to justice (although Saudi might have been a better place to look).

HOWEVER, Iraq had NOTHING to do with it. All going to Iraq did was take the mission focus away from where it belonged -- along with the assets needed to complete that mission ... AFGHANISTAN! We frittered away thousands of lives, American, Allied and Iraqi; billions of dollars and what was accomplished in Iraq? We got rid of a dictator. OK. There are lots more out there. Do we go after all of them too?

No, Iraq was Bush's ego trip.

Actually, I was addressing "johnjwins" regarding his statement "Your even dumber than Sarah Palin". Although there are other examples to choose from as well.

Beth, Maybe Iraq was a bad decision, I think the Congress went along with it, though. And, I don't think this can be blamed on one person (Bush), or his administration. I think it's been reviewed and documented that the intelligence was flawed/incomplete at the time. ...However, we only hear about what's releasable to the public and not classified.... don't we? Go with the facts and not what's speculative. BTW, how would you like someone like Saddam back in power of Iraq? I kind of wish it on folks like you that I hear say crap like you did.

No offense intended Jessica, and no remedial English course required. Mr. johnj, however, needs to take a look at Copi's works.

Congress authorized the wars with bi-partisan support as specified in the U.S. Constitution. It is just plain ignorant to suggest "capital murder charges" against elected officials who followed the law.

Why? Many soldiers do that and more and don't go off the deep end. This guy had issues for sure but don't set the bar for how many years or tours is acceptable. The soldier will pay for what he did. A thorough investigation will be held and maybe some answers will come from it and maybe a change in protocol on evaluating soldiers but sometimes bad stuff happens and there is no explanation or way around it. You can't reinvent the wheel on an isolated incident.

How do you know he had a hideous head injury? Didn't say that in the article. He suffered, from everything I've read, a concussion in Iraq. Most people have had one and most don't go out and kill people. I work with our soldiers and their mental health on a daily basis. Many have had more than 4 or 5 combat tours. They are stretched to their breaking point. Their families are stretched to their breaking point. This is what happens when you fight 2 multi-year war with an all volunteer force. Why do you think the suicide rate is so high? Many choose to kill themselves instead of others. Many have killed others once they returned to the states. We don't know what his wife told him in the letter, but I can guess. It was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Doesn't justify what he did, just explains it. There is no justifying killing innocent civilians in their sleep.

ThankYouSoldiers, You hit the nail on the head.... this is an isolated incident that cannot be blown out of proportion... just like the Afghanistanis seem to be doing. Why aren't they raising hell like this everytime the Taliban conducts these kinds of atrocities???? That's the million dollar question!!!!

Yes you may become violent with PTSD but it goes one way (to hurt yourself) or the other (to hurt others) not usually both. That is not to say it can not be or will not be both. Explaining it is all we can do with no way of knowing why he did this.

RevKev, you asked;Why aren't they raising hell like this everytime the Taliban conducts these kinds of atrocities???? That's the million dollar question!!!!

The answer is rather simple, they know the Taliban will come back and do it again. The second time they might just get them all.

Your right and that's the reason the rest of the World looks down on us now. We have a nation full of idiots who think they're completely superior to other people that populate this planet.

@ JohnJ: Absolutely agree, apparently American's committing murder isn't as serious as other foreign nationals committing murder. Everyone's chomping at the bit to find some kind of justification...like anything could justify killing innocent men women and children in their sleep.

I have no problem in seeing someone put to death. If they deserve it. If he's found guilty, he should be put to death. But at the same time, these double negatives need to be addressed where its ok for people to KILL our soldiers over the burning of paper. Where were those people arrested, tried, and killed? How about the other countless deaths these "protesters" were responsible for. How many of them were convicted?

I wanted justice across the board. But it's ok for them, and not ok for us. I see.

@ J Shields: Thus is the frustration with getting involved in regime change/nation building. It's unfortunate (seriously), that our troops suffer the hideous backlash of the transgressions of a few, it really is, and I personally hate seeing it. But the facts are, our troops, just like the police in this country, are held to a higher standard. They cannot act on their own, and cannot take the law into their own hands. I hate that the burning of a book, can cause our service members to be targeted and killed. But, that's a problem that really needs to be addressed outside of an active war/combat zone. We cannot attempt to force the moderation of a religion, while we're actively involved in combat, against people of that religion. Too many problems occur, such as innocent civilian deaths, for our stance to ever be taken seriously. You know that passion and emotion will rule over logical thought most of the time, well, that's what happens here.

I too, want justice across the board, but nothing short of us killing everyone who doesn't think exactly the same way we do, will achieve that end overnight. It really takes time and hard work to change the pathos of an entire culutre.

The problem is you're dealing with an uneducated, illiterate population that will believe anything they are told. This leads to emotional behavior. Hard to be rational when you don't have enough education to know the meaning of the word. But, where is the outcry when the Taliban kill dozens of civilians at a time. There is none. Where is the outcry when one of our Afghan allies walks into an office and kills 2 senior officers. Where is the outcry when another Afghan soldier opens fire on a group of American soldiers and kills 3 or 4 while they are doing PT or playing sports. There are none. Those soldiers are just considered a casualty of war, sent home and buried and forgotten about. They weren't killed in battle. Guess we should be like the other side and say they were martyred. I bet we will hear about this for a while. I'm sure Obama will apologize several times.

@ J in TX: Oh I absolutely agree that it feels like a complete double-standard. But, given the realities you just spoke of, low education, illiteracy etc... do you think we stand any chance of actually influencing in a positive fashion, how these people think and act, while we're in the middle of combat with them? Regardless of why we're there. Especially when you have situations such as this (16 murdered), or Abu Ghraib, or the rest in the long line of murders by contractors in the country. That's the problem, while we're in the middle of the conflict (which was never about reeducating or changing Afghani perspective on the US, we're there to destroy Al-Qaida, the Taliban, and take out Osama Bin Laden) we cannot hope to achieve a broader winning of Afghani hearts/minds while things like this still occur.

And it really doesn't matter how they treat each other, or treat us, we're supposed to be better than them. And yes, that means turning the other cheek when something we don't agree with happens. It sucks, it really really does, but that's the harsh reality of being a military service member.

No, B Murphy, I don't think we stand any chance of actually influencing them in a positive fashion. That's why it is time to pack up and bring them home.

Believe me. I know the harsh realities of being a military service member. I did 23 1/2 years. You're right, we do have to be better than them. That's why something like this is big headlines. It doesn't happen often. No matter the standards, our military members are still human and humans break.

J in TX--The Afghanis are not uneducated and illiterate. It is a country of about 20 million people, 8 million of whom are students. Literacy was high prior to the Taliban--it then fell--and is now climbing again. The same thing happened during the Civil War in the US--immediately after it, there was a decrease in literacy in the South. It rebounded in time--but the Afghanis are not "primitives." Have a great day.

@ J in TX: Thank you for your service, sir. I appreciate the efforts and sacrifices you've made on behalf of America and it's citizens.

I think we do stand a chance of influencing them in a positive fashion, just not while we have combat troops deployed there. I can only imagine if the roles were reversed, and we had an armed force of foreign nationals on American soil, doing whatever they wanted, and in some cases murders committed by them being overlooked. I just don't see how we can achieve a positive outcome in the current situation. I agree, our job there is done. And that our efforts now are largely to prepare the Afghani Government for the likely Taliban uprising that will occur once we're completely withdrawn, but there's only so much we can do...and everytime something like this happens it puts our service members at more risk, and increases the rage and skepticism of a populace already very very tired of war.

And you're right, when things like this occur, it spreads across the world like wildfire far more than anything good that we do. It's terrible, but that's a direct result of how the media functions. Bad news sells, good news is just meh.

DP was the routine punishment for deserters as recent as WWII, why not for homicidal maniacs?

@ J in TX. 23 1/2 years Hoo-ah!!

My concern is the Soldiers that will die in the wake of this tragedy. I know the Taliban and insurgents are out to kill Americans regardless but, pissing on the dead, burning the Koran, and killing 16 civilians, help the Taliban with recruitment.

I'm guessing there are probably a few Afghans on the fence about Americans in their country but when they face atrocities like this it helps the Taliban and insurgents with propaganda to recruit those guys who are on the fence. Not saying it's right just the reality of the situation.

Do you remember when the Somalians dragged that poor Soldiers dead body through the streets in Mogadishu? I tried joining the Marines the following week when I saw that. The Marines didn't need to recruit me I sought them.

Those Americans are still here, but they are too busy with their Obama Hate.

Yeah, thats what war is like, but incidents like this are not suppose to happen, especially not from an NCO. As Soldiers, we are trained to prevent things like this from happening, not make them happen. He failed his troops, his command, and ultimately failed his country.

Well said Tony. He failed his duty and made a big mess for everyone to clean up. On top of that their are some families shattered including his own.

Demanding an attorney is not going to trump the possibility of an insanity plea. He very well could still get one.

possibly as a result of afghanies gunning down american servicemen which is happening a lot over there. obviously his beef was with the other side. but i guess you would have prefered he killed americans, I have no doubt because you consider US soldiers murderers right????

As callus as it may sound I am glad he didn't choose to execute his fellow soldiers or even a fellow soldier. Sucks what happened to the Afghan villagers and now the fallout for everyone but...

@ observer ... Because soldiers shoot back.

A lot easier for this cowardly nutbag to cold blooded murder sleeping babies and then burn the bodies.

Guess fourth tour fits your definition of a coward! He was wrong no doubt but a coward he certainly @!$%#ing was not!

Please DO NOT give that soldier the Death Penalty.

Tony they will have too in order to suffice the Afghan government. Little changes did you serve a day? Little things we don't know about this story is what makes it difficult to decipher. We need to get out of there as soon as possible, before anything else happens to set these people off. If we're not going to kill them all, then go home and quit acting like we need to change the world.

Do not be mistaken this is a war about money and that is the truth. All of the other atrocities going on around the world and we've done nothing about them at all. The way one finds the truth is too follow the money. Truly the love of money is the root of all evil.

Amen to that bobm. We could use those troops on the borders here, not over there. History has proven that no one will win a war there.

So do you mean a total of 8 years or 2 tours for soldiers? Words and facts matter.

@Old Vet-462462 --- Spot On brother! If the Nation still had a military draft like in previous wars/conflicts in lieu of utilizing an all volunteer force of "paid mercenaries" this soldier would not have had to serve as many rotations in a combat zone. The sons and daughters of those critical of his actions could have taken his place on a couple of tours thereby enlightening their relatives as to what was going on. I in no way condone this soldier's actions ...HE WAS WRONG and must face trial, however this Country has not been to war. The military has gone to war while the Nation has been at the shopping mall or busy playing Monday morning quarterback. If we are going to continue going to war we need to re institute the draft equally share the burden.

The YELLOW ELEPHANTS don't want a draft. Other wise they would have to leave their keyboards and learn how to be a trained soldier. They just want other people's kids to go in their place.

I believe that I may well agree with your comments alluding to the draft. A draft in place, something obligatory for all kids exiting high school, say, as Switzerland does... and all these piss-pot countries suddenly AGAIN decide to shelve their development of WMD's (Iran, N. Korea, etc). Remember, those country's didn't start ignoring the sanctions, and begin re-starting their nuclear weapons programs until after OUR media began reporting that the USA "Didn't have enough boots" to be on the ground. As such... draft? Sure, put another half million men in combat gear and watch them quiet down. Better retations. Tell me another 250,000 boots on the ground over their wouldn't help things calm down? Well, wouldn't hurt. However, there is a DAMNED GOOD REASON why the USA will never again be allowed to have a draft! Namely... and I am a combat veteran myself... in this liberal day and age of politically correctness, and equality... I will absolutely REFUSE to allow my eighteen year old son to go into combat... unless your eighteen year old DAUGHTER is also being killed in combat. I don't mean rear line 'stuff', I mean boots in the hot spot. USA, as a society, is not about to put up with hearing about eleven (or twenty-three) dead girls a day. It;s 2012: if my son is old enough to die in combat, than so is your daughters, and I, and millions of adults like me will make sure a draft is defeated, it being gender specific for combat roles. Now, that being all said... personally, I would refuse to go into combat with females in my unit. I could envision it now, with Mary and Sue saying (to me) "Sorry, sarge! But we're being over-run, got to haul ass. Seeing as how I cannot carry your 6'3", 234 lbs... well, bye, it's been nice knowing you! Hope they don't spend to many days torturing and cutting your head off. 'Bye!!"

Point being: anyone (ACLU, whatever) in court can proove gender specific targeting of males... and I do not have a son to spare.

Just raise the requirement of joining the Marines to a six year education, and a minimum IQ of 50, and lots of problems would be solved.

It has been my experience during the several devastating earthquakes in California the military were most always first responders during cleanup ! Even in Berkely you libs NEVER ONCE refused their assistance !

One thing we can count on with libs is your never ending hypocrisy and hate for the military

For those claiming that the military in Afghanistan is there to help, the last time I checked, the US Marines are not trained to help. If you want to help put your weapon away and join the countless *civilian* organization that are REALLY helping in Afghanistan, otherwise don't pretend that you are there to "help".

I hope they're there to unload a barrel of bullets on the taliban and anyone who harbors them.

PS: John, say that to ANY Marine. He/she would kick the sh*t out of you.