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Subscribe to RSSThe American soldier accused of gunning down 16 Afghan civilians, including nine children, has been flown out of Afghanistan to Kuwait. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 6:40 a.m. ET: -- A U.S soldier suspected of shooting to death 16 Afghan civilians was flown out of Afghanistan to Kuwait on Wednesday evening, the U.S. military said.
The soldier was taken out of the country "based on a legal recommendation," said Navy Capt. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman in Washington.
The 38-year old Staff Sergeant was transferred "based on a legal recommendation" because the "U.S. military (in Afghanistan) does not have the proper facilities to detain an American service member for any extended length of time," a senior U.S. official told NBC News' Jim Miklaszewski.
The soldier was moved to a detention facility in Kuwait and a military lawyer from Joint Base Lewis-McChord was headed to the facility to meet with the soldier, the official told NBC News.
The decision to move the soldier was made by the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. John Allen, a senior Pentagon official said.
Despite mounting pressure after the recent civilian killings in Afghanistan, President Barack Obama and Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain reaffirmed their plans to slowly dial back their military presence. NBC's Kristen Welker reports.
U.S. military officials told NBC News that they expect charges to be filed by at least the end of next week.
Afghan lawmakers expressed anger Thursday over the U.S. move to fly out the soldier accused of killing 16 civilians, mostly women and children, saying Kabul shouldn't sign a strategic partnership agreement with Washington unless the suspect faces justice in Afghanistan.
Negotiations over the agreement, which would govern the presence of U.S. forces in Afghanistan after most combat troops withdraw by the end of 2014, were tense even before the shooting deaths of the civilians in southern Kandahar province on Sunday.
NBC's Richard Engel reports.
On Wednesday, an Afghan man drove a stolen pickup onto a runway at Camp Bastion, the main British base in southern Afghanistan, before crashing into a ditch -- right around the time that U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's plane was touching down, U.S. defense officials said.
The man who crashed the truck at the airfield in southern Afghanistan as the defense secretary's plane was landing and then exited the vehicle in flames died of extensive burns on Thursday.
U.S. Lt. Gen. Curtis Scaparotti, deputy commander of American forces in Afghanistan, told reporters traveling with Panetta in Kabul that he believed the man -- an interpreter working for foreign forces -- was targeting a group of U.S. Marines assembled on the ramp. He said it would have been difficult to know which plane the defense secretary was aboard.
The secretary's aircraft had to taxi to a different location. No one in Panetta’s party was hurt, said Kirby.
"At no time was the secretary or the secretary's delegation in any danger whatsoever," George Little, a Pentagon spokesman traveling with Panetta, told reporters after the incident.
Massoud Hossaini / AFP - Getty Images
Afghan Interior Minister Besmullah Mahammadi, center right, walks with US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, center left, in Kabul on Wednesday.
Panetta arrived in Afghanistan for an unannounced two-day visit with Afghan officials and U.S. troops -- the first by a senior member of the Obama administration since the shootings over the weekend.
Panetta told soldiers at Camp Leatherneck, the main U.S. Marine base in the volatile area: "We'll be challenged by our enemy. We'll be challenged by ourselves. We'll be challenged by the hell of war itself. But none of that, none of that, must ever deter us from the mission that we must achieve."
In Washington, President Barack Obama said Britain and their NATO allies are committed to shifting to a support role in Afghanistan in 2013.
Speaking alongside British Prime Minister David Cameron at joint a news conference in the White House, Obama said that next phase in the transition will be an important step in turning security control over to the Afghans by the end of 2014.
Panetta's visit to Afghanistan was planned months ago, long before the weekend slaughter that claimed the lives of 16 villagers. But the trip propels Panetta into the center of escalating anti-American anger and sets the stage for some difficult discussions with Afghan leaders.
Jangir / AFP - Getty Images
More than ten years after the beginning of the war, Afghanistan faces external pressure to reform as well as ongoing internal conflicts.
There were clear concerns about security in the large tent at Camp Leatherneck where Panetta was slated to talk to troops.
Before Panetta came into the hall, Sgt. Maj. Brandon Hall told the more than 200 Marines in the room to take their weapons outside and leave them there. Afghan troops had already been told not to bring their guns in.
A U.S. defense official said the order was not a reaction to an immediate threat. Speaking on condition of anonymity, the official said the base commander made the decision that no one would be allowed to bring in weapons.
Marines asked to disarm before Panetta speech
Afghans investigating the village massacre had been shown video of the U.S. soldier taken from a security camera mounted on a blimp above his base, an Afghan security official told Reuters.
The footage showed the uniformed soldier, with his weapon covered by a cloth, approaching the gates of the Belandai special forces base and throwing his arms up in surrender, the official said.
The video had been shown to investigators to help dispel a belief among some Afghans, including many members of parliament, that more than one soldier must have been involved because of the high death toll, the official said.
NBC News' Jim Miklaszewski and Courtney Kube, The Associated Press, Reuters and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
Obama and Holder, with the endorsement of MSNBC will likely release the suspect to Afghanistan militants.
Wonderful provocation. I'm sure you will enjoy the inevitable @!$%#storm in reaction to your comment.
conspeak the Ad hominem is not even clever. This is a site for Americans. Your people are over here www_stormfront_org
Yeah, you know, Holder will sign the papers, swear he knew nothing about it until days later and Obama will just swear that he knew nothing about it all as he rises to pray at dawn facing the East on his prayer rug.
Rather silly comment.
I wish trolls like you would stay under their rocks instead of polluting these discussion boards with their inane statements. You are adding absolutely nothing to the intelligent discussion of the article or the events in question.
Once the news put a name on what they do " Trolls " everyone jumps on the bandwagon and wants to do it. The news makes it popular. It aggrivates people who want a civilized conversation and way of talking about different topics. But to others no matter how much you call them childish, idiots, trolls... the second they get attention the sit behind their computers laughing while you get extremely mad.
The news does wonders for bringing these things to light and making it worse.
When you are anonymous behind the computer screen... people act say and do things they would most likely never EVER do in their normal everyday lives. The internet is their way of making people mad, being hateful and causing such an uproar with usually no consequences. They're just people sitting in their parents basement with no real lives of their own and whos only enjoyment is to make others furious.
LOL
I think it's funny!
With a world that has gotten so deadly serious and downright tragic for a lot of people these days, I think we need some idiots to laugh at from time to time.
To each his own, stonedog. I think it is sad for our country, our society, and especially a bad example of people of the age of adulthood acting like schoolyard bullies when actual children need much better examples.
Indeed.
You think that your comment was funny, but wait, didn't I read in the same article that a road side bomb killed several civilians and another killed an intelligence officer and others. I would say that the Afghanistan people are like monkeys and only know what they are taught. Monkeys that kill each other and then get mad at others for trying to stop the insanity.
If your from an arab country, go back and fix it. If your from a third world country go back and improve it. If your from this country (AMERICA) support it.
Good, do it.
when Afghan kill Americans, they are handed over to the U.S. fair is fair.
Amen!....to rick's comment
REALLY?....EUROPEAN PLEASE TAKE YOUR ARSSES BACK FROM ....where ever the hell your from!!!!
sigh... if only some of you knew the difference between knowing your @!$%# and knowing you're @!$%#.
And how many of you would really be surprised if conspeak is proven right?
there will be no death penalty case; with his history, known so far, a diminished capacity , defence will spare him that; he will however spend the rest of his life in a prison and a mental hospital; get the hell out of Afghanistan now, we have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I wouldn't say everything to lose. What will happen is that the Taliban will get a free pass, Al-Quaeda will have a new base, and you can look forward to your next terrorist attack against the US.
The question is: would that have happened anyway? I pointed out both liberals and conservatives have major figures who questioned our presence in Afghanistan a long time ago. Of course we all know about Ron Paul. But lets not forget Joe Biden questioned it, and at the time, all the conservatives were jumping all over him because, well, he's Joe Biden. Turns out, however, he wasn't so far off the mark in guessing.
As long as Osama Bin Laden wasn't dead or captured, I thought our presence was easily worth it. Now, we are left to wonder. Let's just remember that Al-Quaeda would like nothing better than for us to leave. Didn't say we shouldn't go. But something to think about.
Indeed, but what you are missing is the fact that the Haqqani Network was the last Taliban organization that trained and counseled the Times Square Bomber and his attempt at leveling half a city block in NYC. Do you honestly think that if we leave Afghanistan that these tribes will simply cease and desist and go back to simple lives?
Better yet, with all this free time and no Americans to shoot at or bother them, a warrior culture will certainly use this freedom to train and plan more attacks. Thats what they are proficient at so be careful what you wish for.
@Derek,
Al-Qaida already has a new base....what do you think Libya is. They have a whole country to recruit and train in and millions of dollars in oil money to fund them. Odumbo handed the country right over to his buddies the Muslim Brotherhood and a safe haven for Al-Qaidia. What about the 20,000 SAM's that were stolen...this was 100% Odumbo's fault and should be held liable if any of those missles brings down a commercial plane anywhere in the world....instead of blowing up the SAM's or sending in a special team to take possession or blow them up he let the frikkin rebels and anyone else with a car load them up and clean everything out....he's a frikkin terrorist himself....he's supplied terrorists with more and deadlier weapons than anyone ever has....he should send himself to Gitmo.....frikkin ass-clown
Yesterday a expert speaking to one of the cable news shows was saying it will be 2 years from March 2012 before this soldier is courts-marshaled.
Carl-404329 Comment collapsed by the community
; ) 37 votes and counting Carl, Ha Ha Ha
Charleyfarley #1.2 -
Just because you support Stormfront does not mean you are not American. Actually if you do support Stormfront it makes you more American.
As soon as they execute the parties responsible for the killing of the Americans over the Queeran debacle, we might consider a death penalty trial for the SS, although a plea of , "by reason on insanity", would probably prevail..
It is pretty obvious that this guy just lost it. I find it disturbing that this is yet another soldier from Joint Base Lewis-McChord that has been involved in criminal acts. There is something seriously wrong at that base and with the medical staff that is screening these soldiers for PTSD, TBIs, and other psychological problems. I do not know whether it is an incompetent medical staff and clueless command structure or if the medical staff is being pressured by the command not to make the diagnoses. All I know is that they are apparently clearing quite a few soldiers for additional combat deployments who may not be fit. In either case, the leadership at that base and the medical staff need to be cleaned out and replaced with some competent people willing to do their jobs properly.
Unfortunately, I think that politics will come into play and this soldier will not be allowed to present a defense of temporary insanity or diminished mental capacity. Anything short of a death sentence will cause too many problems for the administration. There have already been statements made that they are planning on seeking the death penalty in this case. This is being done to appease the Afghani government and people. I feel that this is one case where the outcome of the court martial is a foregone conclusion. Despite strict regulations to try and prevent it, I think that there is going to be considerable undue command influence all the way from the Commander in Chief on down to find this staff sergeant guilty and sentence him to death. I am in no way defending what this soldier did, I am just very concerned that he is not going to receive a fair trial. There are medical records showing that he suffered a TBI in a vehicle accident but the medical staff at Lewis-McChord is already circling the wagons saying there was no permanent injury and that he was fine and fit to be deployed. Having had experience dealing with someone who was close to me ho suffered a TBI, I can tell you that they can appear fine in some situations, with the problems only coming out under certain conditions, particularly when under stress. I am not a doctor and have not seen this soldier's medical records, I just hope that he gets a fair trial and that incompetent doctors trying to cover their asses do not help railroad this guy into a lethal injection. If he was competent and truly fit for duty, then he does deserve the death penalty for what he did. I just want to see him get a fair trial.
I'm not saying that there aren't problems with the medical staff, but you have to understand the size of the facility. Ever since they merged Ft. Lewis and McChord AFB you're talking about more than a hundred thousand people living on base. That's the size of a small city. You're bound to have problems from time to time with a population that large, especially when the focus of their profession is what it is.
stonedog is right. The 25thy Infantry Division at JBLM has five brigades that have all been rotating in and out of the war zones since the beginning. And the inability to distinguish friend from foe in Iraq and Afghanistan re-creates the stress levels that we saw in Vietnam
Okay, let me try to explain this. I highly doubt his crime will qualify for an insanity defense. In the military, insanity generally means you didn't know what you were doing was wrong. The fact that he surrendered and probably snuck off the base indicates to me premeditation. However, in the sentencing phase of the trial, he can use stress, PTSD, and any other lesser form of mental instability as a mitigation. Moreover, if he has an excellent service record, that will be taken into account. Finally, even after sentencing, it is possible for higher command to reduce his sentence. I don't really see how he will escape life in prison, but I've seen stranger things in sentencing.
Spoken like a true Vietnam war criminal....
He knew what he was doing. He covered himself in a shawl to hide his identity, then he surrendered as soon as he got to the base. Sounds pretty well thought out to me.
AZ, that is pretty low to make the jump from his/her statement that you disagree with to him/her having been a war criminal in Vietnam.
AZCowBoy, go back to the basement and maybe your mom will make you some pizza bites.
There a few problems highlighted by this Soldier's shoot spree/rampage. The Army is currently avoiding diagnosing PTSD and TBI to avoid costs associated with treatment. Soldiers will usually say there is nothing wrong with them, so they can avoid having to spend more time involved in government services and less time with family and friends. They will hold this Soldier accountable for the shootings, but that should be expected. The military holds higher standards than the civilian world. That statement should set off the liberals, but the truth does hurt.
As for the Afghans and the insurgents, they will always garner media attention concerning their railing against the U.S. for any mistake, yet no one will hold them their feet to the fire for killing unarmed civilians with IED's and suicide bombers. Afghan on Afghan atrocities are not news worthy and, god forbid, would take the focus off of evil America.
This Soldier will pay for his crimes and the Taliban won't.
AZ sounds like the self righteous libtards that stood around in airports screeching "Baby Killer!" at anyone in uniform during the Viet period, cheered on the SDS and Weathermen, whines about "his" rights while insulting and degrading those who protect them.
Hey, can we all just wait until CID and JAG get through say, to the Article 32 before jumping to crazy conclusions. We don't really know much about this situation. But the fact that he got out of the wire indicates premeditation or a really stinky command atmosphere. I would also point out that there are a hell of a lot more soldiers with PTSD and TBI who haven't gone rogue. Both would be mitigating factors and not an excuse.
To put all liberals together does nothing for your comments. I am fairly liberal and an independent. I did not agree with what they did to the soldiers comeing home from Viet Nam. I have a grandson in the military and support the military.
What happened is tragic on both sides.
It is interesting to read the article. The Taliban "killed" 8 people in an IED explosion and the Staff Sergeant "Slaughtered" the villagers.
Really...how about the Taliban "Slaughtered" 9 people in an IED attack? Who are these POS reporters anyway? I say that we should not have the military protect them and let them go live with the Taliban and get them off the Military Bases.
Yet this man was deployed 5 different times to iraq and afghan, this man has see ALOT OF WAR. He obviously had ptsd and does not deserve the death pentalty. AMERICA put him in war many times to see a lot of Sh!t.
Doesn't sound like he just lost it and went crazy to me. He thought this out, complete with disguising himself for his own safety. I think if he had made it back to the base undetected he wouldn't have given himself up.
I don't give two @!$%#s about PTSD or too many tours etc. Unless you're stark raving mad, if you bust into some body's house and kill men women and children with no provocation you deserve to die. If this happened here almost nobody would even question it. However since they are only raghead kids people think he deserves a break. One guy had his wife and EIGHT children shot to pieces, and you think he deserves a break. Well now I've seen everything. There are plenty of other soldiers in the same situation who didn't go on a random killing spree. judging by reports this guy gets bad news from his wife has too much to drink and it's lights out for 9 kids and 8 adults. As for what terrorists have done, that doesn't even come into play. This isn't an eye for an eye, it's justice, and in any case if anyone's counting I'm sure we are way ahead on that tally.
Over 10 years of trying to live your life with bombs dropping. soldiers shooting. Can you imagine living that way...everyday for 10 years? Trying to raise a family amid all that military chaos? I sympathize greatly with the Afghanis who are tired of dealing with all this conflict.
And the military, including politicians, should realize that killing people and seeing people being killed is not a normal occurence for the ordinary citizen who becomes a soldier. In fact, a killing environment is probably totally foreign to what he/she has experienced in life except in video games and movies. Sure, some people are going to adjust...of they survive. Many will not and will need help. You can't say that just because one soldier didn't freak out, all soldiers should not freak out.
I can't believe that someone who murders 16 people and burns them is in their right mind.
I have been asking why we are there for ten years and still haven't gotten an answer I can believe in. Trying to find sense in the blood shedding.
You just gotta love the mind numbing Hollywood programming being released these days trying to validate what has been done over there by appealing to the emotions of Americans and the blood loss paid by the military.
Our military is being utilized for economic entitlements.
"As soon as they execute the parties responsible for the killing of the Americans over the Queeran debacle, we might consider a death penalty trial for the SS, although a plea of , "by reason on insanity", would probably prevail."
You never know the Afghan that killed the Americans could have been stressed out,having family problems,and just snapped. I'm thinking he should go for a "by reason of insanity" defense too.After all he's had to be there since the beginning,not 4 tours.
Mos, it is sad you cannot tell the difference. 'Killed' is used when armed combatants kill each other or in case of accidents or shoot outs. Slaughter is reserved usually for when an armed moron kills unarmed people or in reference to the number of bystanders killed.
Oh, my lord! I'm so glad my sons are out of there! I consider myself and their dad, extremely fortunate.
What a mess!
I agree with Vet. If we can see how Afghanistan is rounding up those responsible for killing American troops and trying them for their crimes then I would have some reason to believe that the soldier could be tried for his crimes there. Obviously they aren't rounding up the bad guys, so I'm glad they shipped him out and will try him at home.
Well, I may have to admit that this administration finally did something right, with a caveat of course. They did as they should fly that soldier out of Afghanistan. That is the right thing to do as he should face military law here in the states. The caveat of because there was no statement that he would not be taken back to Afghanistan for legal action later. That would be a very very bad move but one cannot ever predict what the appology king will do. AFter all Mr. Brave Panetta had the soldiers disarm before entering the tent where he was! Really??
Charles Whitman, a marine, plotted and thought through his plan to climb the tower at the University of Austin where he proceeded to kill people. Now, would you call that the actions of someone insane?
As to this soldier, I find it odd that he did what he did and returned to base, admitted his crime and is now on his way home. Lots of speculation here.
I also find it odd that the marines were stripped of their weapons prior to Panetta's speech. Seems that things are seriously wrong with the military chain of command, with how events are happening in Afghanistan and how the politicans are playing it. It is also odd when the Afghan 'soldiers' which we're supposedly training to take over have a tendency to kill the soldiers out there 'training' them and the administration wants to pretend that this is infrequent when it's not, that it's no 'big deal' when it really is. I would have to seriously rethink my commitment to the military if I were a soldier. Being a pawn for some PC BS wouldn't make me happy, especially if the people I'm there to protect and train want to kill me and will do so if given the chance and the administration doesn't really care about me, but rather, wants to appease the Taliban.
I agree to some extent, however Madigan AMC has had an extremely poor reputation throughout the Army for quite a few years. Add to that the responsibility as a major force projection platform and you have a recipe for disaster. They have been investigated (two 15-6 and one DOA Tiger Team Investigation) in the past two years. While they have made changes to demobilization policy, most of the same staff found deficient remain in place. There is still an attitude of "push 'em thru" and "cut costs" as exemplified by the current "forensic psychiatric" team investigation. IMO since the Army is reluctant to properly oversee JBLM demobilization operations, Congress needs to go through the SRC with a chain saw.
Look, we don't deal with mental illness in the civilian arena, and so we should not be surprised that the military believes their men and women should just "buck up". I would think that mental fatigue in a war zone is extremely high and very quickly for some. Again, have any of you known police officers that work in "war zones"? I have. Young men turn into morbid, loner types that find it hard to navigate in the real world and instead prefer their police pals. I have seen them laughing over gruesome crime scene photos. These were men with children and wives, but they saw those gruesome scenes up close and personal too many times to now be "normal".
I feel for the Afghan communities that are just trying to survive. I feel for the families of servicemen that are hanging on as well.
This man was nuts. Going door to door like a lunatic looking to kill is like a rabid dog that no longer is the family pet and needs to be stopped and destroyed.
This is a horrific event that has worsened conditions for everybody in that region going forward.
Most likely he will be sentenced to death, which will be commuted to life without parole.
why on earth did this guy kill the women and kids ?
Why on earth did 19 muslims hijack 4 planes and murder over 3,000 innocent people?
Attention RichardCain.....Bush, Cheney & Rumsfield wre responsible for 9/11...come to your own conclusion after viewing a free on-line video www.loosechange911.com then tell us who the
REAL MURDERER'S WERE!!!
a classic example of; everybody is wrong & nobody is right these days..they can kill indiscriminately, we do it & all hell breaks loose..the disgusting awful thing about War is the driven psychological thing to kill..the mental state is deep rooted..how does one sort the training from whats within the deep mind..no machine, no man can be the expertise of the evaluation..insanity doesn't cure insanity, it only propels insanity in another direction..I can't be the judge here,& any judge that judges here, is merely their view of the matter..which slams the pendulum, again in social insanity..the beast wanted blood/ guts, he got it, now a lot of side stepping........
Comparing a US soldier who lost it with 19 terrorists? ...nice : (
Pending the outcome of his trial it sounds like they are equally guilty. What's the problem?
Geowl, PLEASE tell me the difference between willfully blowing up 8 people in a van. Killing and wounding them and letting the survivors burn to death. HOW is that ANY different than going house to house killing people?
How does one get a verb of Killing and the other a verb of slaughter? Oh...I bet it is because the reporter is some graduate of some liberal arts school that says that we have to be sensitive to the feeling of the enemy so that they like us and screw the Troops that try to bring progress to an impoverished and tribal area.
JS in SD,
How is Fort Lewis the problem? He could have been released to Fort Hood and shot to death by a Muslim Major...who just happens to be a psychologist treating returning soldiers. Your comments are way "off base".
So you're in favor of blackmail over justice. No surprise there. Shame we can't have you join the murderer.
We should have just left the bastard in Afghanistan where he sould get stoned to death. I see no reason why people should defend this murderer. If it was stress he wouldn't have targeted those who couldn't defend themselves. It's like all murderers. They think that they're owed something for every murder.
If you ain't been through it, you don't know what you're talking about! Poor sod had how many tours? He's married with kids of his own. Bad enough his job created this scenario...now he gets to see his kids grow up from the inside of Leavanworth...if he's lucky.
The old "but what about what they did to us?" bit is getting tired ... aren't we supposed to stand for something different? I mean, shouldn't true patriots be horrified by this incident? He went house to house, chasing screaming women from room to room before killing them, shot and stabbed babies (let me repeat that: shot and stabbed BABIES), then set them on fire.
As for "where was the outrage when they (fill in the blank with your chosen atrocity of war)?" ... it was there. As a nation, we are outraged, we are tired, and we are demoralized. If you're implying that the American people have shrugged their shoulders up until this point ... well, you know that's not true. It's just an excuse to throw around words like "raghead" and "Queeran" and make yourselves feel witty. It's not witty; it's ugly, distasteful, and un-American.
I'm embarrassed and ashamed for you.
It's time to bring all of them HOME.
Why surprised? We train these kids to "kill" add an unstable mind and this is what you get. Sad tradgedy for Americans and Afghans.
I agree Vincent. Then we repeatedly send them into these combat or "occupation" situations. This Sargent reportedly had served several tours in Iraq also. I think the human mind can only withstand so much.
I am very sorry for him, his family and the Afghanis. This is a tradgedy for all.
Agreed Vincent and Angie. This Sargent served well for many years, 3 combat tours in Iraq. Got a TBI. Even if he appears sane he might not be. People say because he planned it and admitted it he knew right from wrong and so he is just a criminal, not insane. I don't think that is the test. The Docs are going to have to evaluate him. Secretary Clinton and Panetta have both spoken of their intent to prosecute. They have political motivation - appeasing the Afghans. If the Docs are good and they evaluate him as insane then prosecuting him as a criminal and hanging/shooting him is just a political outcome. His fate is in the hands of the gubmint now. and he will render unto Ceasar. I believe he is insane. And so I'd put faith in God and pray for him and his victims, his family and the victims families. There will be no good outcome from the procedings in gubmint.
Another 2 years in Afghanistan will not change anything is this cesspool. Billions more to be stolen by Karzai, hundreds more Americans will die, why. Help me send a message to Congress and President Obama. Go to the following link and sign the petition. Hopefully Newsvine won't suspend me again for trying to save American lives.
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-killing-americans-in-afghanistan
I agave already sent a letter to the President and my congressman that his man should be in a military hospital mental ward...for evaluation and treatment, our government and military are responsible for pitting this soldier back in a combat zone....he should not have been. We are failing our military just like we failed the Vietnam vets. Thesemultiple deploy,ents must end. Finally, he had a traumatic brain injury....he could very well have thought he was carrying out a mission.
As rummy told us in the beginning. "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want." unfortunately, this looks like a symptom of the all volunteer military. These folks are approaching burn out.
Tour after tour after tour, in this intermitable "war". we don't make good occupiers, and that is what we have become. an occupying army. Even the flower throwers and welcomers after ten years see the US army as enemies,Put yourself in their place, would we stand for any foreign army in our country.
We went into afghanistan to get bin laden, bin ladin is dead, why the hell are we still there?
Most likely we are still there because we are training the afghanis and building bases so we will be prepared to take care of Pakistan should the Pakistani's finally show their true colors and let the Al Quaeda and Taliban take control of the government and nuclear arsenal.
My heart goes out to this soldier and his family. Its a war zone..our soldiers are humans..some do lose it..its nothing new, been happening in all our wars.What he did was tragic..and glad they transported him out of there..he needs help medical wise..not just a court case to kill him. He was a staff Sgt. from what I read..that's takes time to get and training to protect our country. God bless his little children and wife..I hope they place him in a hospital of some kind..not a prison..he snapped in combat!
Everyones medical records are screened for deployment before they go. The army has been pushing through people with mental problems since the beginning that should not go to keep units up to strength. Maybe he pulled the trigger but this is the chain of command and medicals fault. They knew he was showiing signs of depression and let it slide. Guess what? He slid right into the village and killed villagers. Are they going to sit there and tell us there were no weapons in the village to shot back with? Why didn't the villagers fight back? Chicken crap or set up? You decide. That is BS! One more thing, There are no innocents in a war like this. Everyone can/will kill you if the circumstances are right.
More than likely Shadowofself, this soldier started out with a mind such as your own. In that case, he will have a defense of pure and outright insanity but it had nothing to do with war.
Amusingly ironic when you have a military that has a Major, trained as a psychiatrist, someone who is to treat soldiers coming back from battle who turns out to be a Muslim terrorist and mass murderer. So, who polices the psychiatrists? Why are Hasan's murders of thirteen unarmed servicemen considered 'workplace violence' by the Obama administration? The outcry over the Afghani slaughter is righteous and should be addressed. The problem is the double standard of a Muslim Psychiatrist, an Army Major, slaughtering the innocents and having his actions labeled as 'workplace violence' rather than terrorism and mass murder. Don't downplay Hasan, pretending that his actions were 'less' than they truly were.
Saddest part is that the soldier, who did so much active war services in Iraq, should not have been sent to Afghanistan in the first place.
Worse is: those who don't have the brains and know what they are doing started Iraq war along with the Afghanistan war.
Worst is: the generals who are supposed to lead the wars don't know how to deploy troops well either!
This soldier was a 38 yeaar old man. I could expect that response if it was a kid 18-21 bracket.
I think he was tired of seeing his friends get blown away after the Koran burning and retaliated, happen in Nam.
I'm an old soldier too. Surprised they didn't jet him out earlier to the US.
Does not that Afghan Interior Minister Besmullah Mahammadi with his bulging belly look like a joker?
What a bunch of jokers to be fighting along side!
Jonathan, I don't think an American should be making comments about bulging bellies - we are the most obese nation on the planet.
homesick yank: We are talking of those connected with war machines and not the general public.
Compare our political and military leaders!
The Amerikan government wants to perpetuate the "lone gunman" explanation. It's easier to convince the sheep that tune in to Fox News that the military-industrial-complex does not produce mass murders in mass quantities.
Tom Joad, I am tired of people like you speaking of FOX News as though it were a foreign news station. People have the right to listen and watch any station that is on the air in these United States without thought control police questioning their choice. No, I am not a FOX Fan, but I am a Freedom of Speech fan ! Think about it. That's how the Taliban got started.
And what is wrong with a foreign news station anyway? Its a lot easier to disseminate what the FACTS actually are when you have access to both domestic and foreign news sources. Why should foreign news sources be treated any differently by a US citizen if that citizen is living under the laws of the constitution?
Facts are hard to come by in all western news outlets today, and FOX is among the worst.
I'll never forget the FOX report saying Libya used journalists as human shields, which was quickly dismissed and redacted after other news reports went on record to say that the Libyan government was, in fact, protecting them.
And you talk about thought control. What do you think FOX is? What do you think ANY mainstream media outlet is, these days? This one included! But it's no wonder when you have globalist military giants like GE behind the scenes. This is why even "liberal" media outlets like this one promote wars. There's money to be made!
And where do you get the same tired crap about the military-industrial complex? Since you can't spell American, I doubt that you came up with that by yourself! Only you know the truth, right? How is is not possible that a lone gunmen killed the sleeping villagers? somehow it's easier for you to believe that this all powerful entity, that your kind spouts off about, sent in hundreds of people to kill the villagers just to keep the war going. I also find it interesting that people like you that ridicule Fox News, seem to know more about what is said on Fox News than those you accuse of watching it!
This is MSNBC yo, save your fox noise for fox
And you people think MSNBC is any better? Seriously?
Realist, wen Dwight Eisenhower left the office of the President, he warned of the Military-Indusrial complex. That's where the term came from and Ike was a 5-star general, as was Omar Bradley, who also warned of the same problem.
But we should believe the crazy guy (you) instead?
Has anyone said what he has admitted to? Did he kill the men, come back to base and admit to "the killings" while some Taliban, or their sympathiser(s) killed the women and children! None of that has been revealed, some one above asked why there weren't any shots fired at him...no guns in an Afgani village...in that part of the counry!!! Get real folks...he might have hunted down the men because of what he saw while on guard at the front gate of the SpecOps Base..."He just went huntin' him sum Talybanners"...but I'd bet the farm he did not kill the women and children, Taliban did... just to re-ignite things in the aftermath of the Koran burnings.
Why is that the voices/oppositions of those opposed to Iraqi wars were not given equal time and in many cases, they were suppressed?
At least, now media and people can be honest about the results of Iraqi wars.
One can understand that some take ten plus years to know/feel the results of their actions.
Why are there only one-sided reportings on Iran and Syria as if the whole world will fall apart if one does not inervene in Iran and Syria?
Are media under the control of US war and oil machines of Saudi Arabia and some mad bigot Netanyhos?
oldotto...
I know it is repulsive to think of this American soldier killing women and children...you wish to dismiss it from your mind...
but a conspiracy theory is no way to deal with this atrocity...it happened...you will loose your farm if you bet it on your conspiracy theory
Defense secretary Leon Panetta? 'should not derail the U.S. and NATO strategy of a gradual withdrawal of troops by the end of 2014' Sure, this doesn't change a dam thing. Have I gone back in time, and reading Lyndon 'warmonger' Johnson statements about Vietnam? 'Derail'? 'Strategy'? What f-ing strategy! And the train is already derailed! I the last part 'by the end of 2014' I don't understand. I thought it was by the end of 2013. Doesn't matter much, we as the American people will end this war long before both years arrive!
GET...OUT...NOW!
Yes, NOW! I have been asking for NOW for months!
but oboma said he would. I guess thats as good as gold isn't it?!?
Absolutely! Get out asap! Just keep the drones flying. They'll come out of the caves sooner or later.
The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline is the reason the American troops will not be leaving before the end of 2014 - that is when the pipeline is scheduled to be operational.
Finally, a man that knows what he's talking about! The UNOCAL pipeline will cost the Afghan people a 100,000 lives (minimum) as the Great Satan moves to subjugate the entire mid-continent and most of SE Asia in hopes of 'putting the screws' to China and Russia. Nice try America. But, be nice to the Chinese because you will be their whore (like AmeriKKKa is to Israel, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia) by 2050.
Wrong gender, but that's okay. I tend to think of the viral corporate greed - that has no concern for humanity, whatsoever - as the evil party, here.
Agree with AZ.
"The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline is the reason the American troops will not be leaving before the end of 2014 - that is when the pipeline is scheduled to be operational."
All that money and work.Just to be undone by rebels with C4,if they wanted to blow it.
Yeah just like all that oil we went to war in Iraq for huh? Whew, so glad...er wait. China and Russia got ALL the oil drilling and refining contracts in Iraq.
sekha68 you might want to remove your tinfoil hat, back away from the blacked out windows and stop reading the National Enquirer and get with reality.
Good then Iraq has money to pay us for all of the money, lives and logistics we provided.
Maybe the citizens of this country should start protesting in the streets and let Obummer see how many of us want our young men out of that God forbidden country.
Only a coward kills defenseless women and children
This creep deserves no less
Or maybe he was mentally ill after repeated tours of duty....
ALAS! Someone defines the Taliban and Al-Quaida!! Way to go truebleau! I knew you could do it.
from some of other articles, it appears he had violent tendencies and that he did this because he was pissed off by an email his wife sent him. Their relationship was referred to as "troubled" (is that military euphemism for abusive????) before his deployment to Afghanastan for this NON-combat Tour of Duty (to peacefully transition out of Afghanastan by training the Afghani and transferring Afghani security to the Afghanis) according to one article and another article mentioned without detail his volital temper and the responsibilities/culpability of his chain of command if they knew he could be dangerous because of it,
Several articles also included posted comments about his US base in WA having an inordinate amount of soldiers not receiving proper medical/psychological and being redeployed while not fit for combat. Apparently, there have been others from his US base that redeployed him who have gone on shooting sprees right here on US soil. There appears to be many things that contributed to his massacring women and children. Currently the death toll is 16, 9 children and 3 women included in that .... but yet another article states they evacuated about 5 more wounded (more children) who are NOT expected to survive.
I wonder if his wife waited until he was 1/2 way around the world to inform him she was filing for divorce to keep herself and their kids safe. Perhaps he used his massacre victims as proxy for what he wanted to do to her, and possibly his own kids. He did sneak out (euphemism for AWOL), then massacred those 2 families and another member of a 3rd family (with several more victims on the brink of death) shortly after receiving that "upsetting" email from his wife 10,000 +/- miles away.
Or, perhaps he felt his dedication (obsession) for tha past 11 yrs cost him his family, so he wanted to take families away from some Afghani men in "retribution) for him losing his family.
Whether or not his wife was filing for divorce or not ... he now had definitely lost his family. I wouldnt be surprised if they change their names to their mom's maiden name to distance themselves from the fact "daddy" is a self-confessed mass murderer. He did state unequivocably that he did it when they found him and just before they arrested him - then demanded a lawyer.
Well seeing as how you can make such a cowardly statement, may you can be intelligent enough to answer how some villagers have sworn there were AT LEAST TWO US soldiers that were shooting. SInce we all know that the Taliban play dress up and kill US soldiers as they did at the Interior Ministry after the Quran burning. Face facts, Obama needs an airbase close to Iran to do Israel's bidding & it's a scant 700 miles from Afghanistan to Iran (less than a tank of gas), so why would anyone listen to eyewitnesses when this guy is the perfect scapegoat. Let's not forget also he had a TBI from a wreck in Iraq and we all know how efficient Army doctors are since his home base was called the most troubled base in the Army by the Stars and Stripes. Add that to the Walter Reed debacle and the fact that donations were needed to build the Wounded Warrior Center in San Antonio and you find that medicine is practiced the way the generals say so and not the doctors. The poor guy probably doesn't remember a thing but is saying yes to all of the questions. Lastly, Obama may not turn him over to the Afghans but he may to appease them, turn them over to the International Court as a war criminal because that's the way Holder will see it.
At least 4 tours in the combat zone? Coward? Well, I expect little less from someone who would most likely "never degrade themselves" by enlisting.
They probably saw 2 other soldiers who were on a mission to find him since he had been reported AWOL .... and the base he went AWOL from sent out helicopter and land search parties for him. Since he was reported as AWOL just after he left the base and was on foot, the soldiers they saw were most likely part of that search team and NOT with him. The civilian witnesses would NOT have known about that and since he was INDOORS massacring women and toddlers and preschoolers, the witnesses who saw the men outside were not the same witnesses to the screaming and begging for their lives of the women and children massacred. He did wipe out 2 families in 2 different villages and then began on a 3rd family in that 2nd town.
Only sick, demented individuals will defend an amoral psychopathic mass murderer. I hear some of manson's group could us your assistance ... at least one came up for parole recently. You could fight for that manson follower's right to freedom since they most like were "misunderstood".
Recycled Hope, the Afghans are WELL KNOWN to exaggerate anything that can make the Non Believers look bad. Give them enought time and it will have been a "hit" by 35 Special Forces, rockets, Arty and Attack Choppers directed by no less then Mr. Obama and the Dow Chemical Company.
I am not speaking for the Sergeant, BUT what I am doing is not jumping on the "look how evil the Military is" band wagon. I jump on the "Look at the Evil Bastards that throw acid in girls faces and hang 8 year old boys" band wagon.
Have you ever been in combat? I do not condone the shooting but there is more to blame here.
The word is that the medical world at FT Lewis failed or missed the PTSD and TBI diagnosis on thsi guy.
Hold him accountable but this garbage with our gov't officials talking death penalty is wrong.
How many of them went into combat? Even Panetta /officials had the Marines disarm for his briefing
We as a Country failed him. He was losing his family - was on his 4th tour as a sniper. I think these troops have had enough, Bring them home! I'll pay more for gas, this is just senseless to keep having walking wounded. The afghans have been doing the same thing to themselves for hundreds of years.
Recycled Hope = Regurgitated garbage - SHUT your Pie Hole!
this whole thing is symptomatic of the @!$%#hole obama is leading us into.........why was this soldier in afghanistan after suffering a traumatic brain injury in iraq?.....obama has to be sent back to chicago where he can practice community organizing skills......ANYONE BUT obama IN NOVEMBER!
@mcpaddywack
I agree.
I'm sure he heard the phrase "Suck it up, soldier!" more than once during his four tours of duty. Military brass only give lip service to PTSD, because they didn't have that "in their day". They did, they just didn't call it that.
For all you people who have to make excuses for this guy because you can't wrap your pointy little heads around what he did all I can say is there are no excuses for executing innocent women and children, it's called free will, we make choices and take responsability for them plain and simple. If I did this and cried about an abusive childhood or some other thing no one would want to hear it, the simple fact is that guy was not forced to do anything he made choices, he is a horrible murderous pig and now he will pay for his crimes.
He killed 6 children, 6....what did they do to him? Throw their pacifier at him?
9 children so far ... 8 from 1 family where the 4 girls were 2, 3, 4 and 5 yrs old and the 4 boys were ages 8 to 12. His wife and 2 other women (other wives???sister? mother?) were also killed --- of the 13 members in his family, only the father and a teenage son survived and that is because they were visiting friends/relatives in another village. They arrived home shortly after the massacre, but before the bodies were removed. Another child, I believe a 5 yr old girl, from another family was shot in the forehead and there are more victims who are not expected to survive .... more young children awoken from their sleep and gravely shot
This is so sad. I never knew their ages before. What a coward to murder innocent sleeping children. I wonder if he has any remorse or if he's just so numb from his several deployments that he can't even feel sorry for what he did. I hope those kids that aren't expected to survive pull through. Such a shame.
If only they had been white and not lowly Arab... perhaps then.... justice would prevail, huh AmeriKKKa?
And, again, I ask how many women and children did the Taliban murder the same night? The night before? And the nights after?
1 incident involving an American, against the nightly terror carried out by their own people.
If only the shooter was muslim, or afghani. If he was this event would have been swept under the rug just like it is every other time.
15 US soldiers were killed as they slept by a muslim US soldier.
90+ children were killed by afghans for having western hair and clothing.
countless women are killed by afghan men for not being slaves.
Maybe these people would not have been killed had their husbands and men of the homes actually been around instead of working with taliban forces? It is very common for afghans to kill women and children, but they are outraged now because they couldn't do it first?
Osiris: "And, again, I ask how many women and children did the Taliban murder the same night?"
Your question is meaningless. 2 wrongs (or 2 million wrongs) do NOT = 1 right.
AZ...do you even know your subject material? Afghanis are NOT Arabs buddy. They are Pashtos, maybe Tajiks, maybe Uzbeks. Before you feel the need to vomit your opinion, you might want to learn a thing or two.
this animal could not think well, he might be a product of inbreeding. He just need to hang himself.
TheAZCowBoy, Tombstone, AZ., come on now. Don't troll all Americans. You know this.
You are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Obama's clueless foreign policy.
I do not think it has anything to do with "obama's foreign policy". This guy obviously has been serving in Iraq and now Afghanistan well before Obama took office. This unfortunately, is a product of war gone on way too long, and the department of defense covering up or expecting more of these soldiers than is humanly possible.
Sad...
Greg, I do not think that Obama had the least bit of infuence over this dreadful massacre. So let's honor the dead by keeping politics out of this.
out in the woods - I would agree with you except that the Obama administration will use this as a political tool. He has no morals or values and I really dont think he cares if people die as long as it helps him meet his political goals. Watch what he does. He knows he's about to get his ass handed to him in the election so in order to gain popularity, he'll sacrifice our foreign policy and credability and pull the troops out right before the election. Not saying it's bad to bring them home but he's reckless and doesn't understand or doesn't care about the repercussions..
Obama could walk on water--and you'd point at him and sneer, "See Obama can't swim!"
First you say we should not be in Afghanistan. Then you complain that Obama "knows he's about to get his ass handed to him in the election so in order to gain popularity, he'll sacrifice our foreign policy and credability and pull the troops out right before the election.
Which is it? War or no war? I know I know. Obama can't swim, right?
Money...interesting comments from someone I suspect supported GW Bush, the man who sent this country to war with Afghanistan AND Iraq. So tell me something; If Obama doesn't care if "people die as long as it helps him meet his political goals", what would you say about GW Bush who invaded Iraq with justifications that changed from week to week?
execute him, done.
Ignorance speaking!
when they took pictures at the prison and posted it on the net, the left wingers said that was the worst thing they had ever seen and it had to go all the way to the top. and should impeach bush or at least hang chaney, so afteer the coran burning and now this where are you lefties at, why does this not go all the way to the top oh yell double standard. and for those who have not served in a combat role where you do not know who your enemy is then you can't understand the stress these guys are under after the coran burning they were killing our service men while they were in there own tents by the so called good guys after awhile you can only say to the hell with it
loadedgoat; I have served, and was never shot at by a 2 year old, but hey, maybe others have been, (sarcastic comment)
However soldiers have been shot at and found bombs on kids as young as 7 and women as well.
If the killer was a Taliban fighter - Wow, the US racists (Especially my Sen(ile) John McCain-R (Az). The "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran' clown, huh?would want him taken out of his cell immediately and SHOT! Maybe that's why the 'killer' has been flown out of Afghanistan a-la-pronto! Gee whiz AmeriKKKa, you're as racist as America 1950! (Except that in America there are 'laws' that keep you going down that straight 'boring' road of decency and fair play whether you like it or not, huh?
AZ,
Rant, rant, rant...breathless, rant, rant, rant...did your horse kick you in he head? Are you suffereing from a TBI? Go get yourself checked I am worried about you.
Really Loadgoat that's what you say, the hell with it ? and then proceed to shoot 16 innocent women and children ? Next you will claim this guy deserves a medal. I truly believe people like you are poisoning the gene pool, please stop breeding.
This soldier was/is not a creep!! He is, however, a broken individual w/a positive history of a brain injury! The creep people so want to label is the individual who RELEASED him back into combat!!!!! Find him and you've found the culprit.
This soldier was on his 4th deployment with a noted medical brain injury - the number of deployments alone could/would break anyone then let's add the weight of a brain injury - this soldier was a ticking time bomb by makings beyond his own power. I strongly suggest, for honesty reasons, that everyone who blames this soldier FIRST walk in his shoes (the exact passages he's been through) then make an honest judgement call. The act was horrible indeed but obviously between all his deployments and brain injury who is surprised and why?!
I have only two children (both sons) and both are Marines - my oldest has served 2 tours in Iraqi - the mental abuse these military people endure is outrageous - they see and endure things we in the US have no idea so don't judge! Those military people ARE THE REASON we are able to sit here and write our opinions and live our everyday lives - your freedoms are not literally a given folks - there are people out there fighting for it and have been for 10 yrs!
Secondly my husband suffered a traumatic brain injury (TBI) at the age of 39 and has been institutionalized since the accident. Unless you KNOW THE FACTS of a TBI and all it entails and all it takes away from an individual please educate yourself before writing any opinion. TBIs effect a person in several ways...from their thought process, they way the receive and decipher information, severe personality changes, violent outbursts, loss of memory, etc......
I do not condone this soldiers actions but nor do I condemn him! He is a broken man and was a broken man before this fourth deployment - this is tragic indeed but on many different levels. I pray for this soldier and his family and again please educate yourselves on all circumstances regarding this whole story before casting the first stone and for those who are so quick to judge.....go sign up in our military, go do four deployments, suffered forever a TBI and let me know how smoothly and without errors you become.
The military's worst fear in this is that this guy makes it back to the USA and he gets a team of civilian attorneys going pro-bono on this case and actually gets a fair trial.
His diagnosis of PTSD was taken back the the kook physc in charge...WTF.. they should have know he was timebomb
Who said AmeriKKKa and its professional killers (many low life thugs that the military lets in to keep it a "Oh my goodness 'volunteeer' army, even if they have to file a pound of 'moral waivers' to get the SOB into a uniform that make him a instant 'patriot' (Just add an M-16 and a camofluge uniform). Yassar, the Taliban has the right idea. Blow these MFer's away out in the field and forget the US military justice system. The Hathitha 'assassins' and the 2nd division Stryker division (Fort Lewis) 'human trophy parts collectors and (Kill team) cold blooded killers also 'walked' and the beat goes on... and on... and on... for the Great Satan who has murdered more innocents than Saddam, Gaddafi combined!!!!!
So, what about the (((broken))) Afghan Taliban warriors (Afghan 'minute men') that have been fighting aggressors (Russian and American) for 30 years. The so-called 'terrorists' that people like your husband cheer upon their death (and sometimes pee on their dead bodies) as the true 'patriots' are defending their country from the low life 'baby killers' of the US/NATO 'kill teams?'
The same Taliban scum that burn dead bodies and drag them through the streets, parading them around and celebrating the death of another human?
Or are you talking about the ones that kill innocent women and children to enforce fear tactics in villages?
Oh yea you are talking about the ones that rape and brainwash little boys into being suicide bombers?
Really Denise, walk in his shoes, MILLIONS of soldiers have and they DID NOT go out and commit murder on innocent people. Granted FT Lewis is a @!$%# hole for a military installation and after this last incident, SOMEBODY needs to look into what is going on out here. You folks don't hear the half of it, only the really BAD stuff. Madigan hospital passes soldiers thru with PTSD, NCO's tell Privates don't say you have @!$%# going on in your head after they return from a deployment or you will get thrown out of the Army and the 2 week re-entry after a deployment, is a 2 day on the computer questionaire.
Air Force Vet and mother of a Combat Soldier
Steelermama - Very good! Someone get's it. Let me narrow it down for you a little. Granted JBLM is what it is; the largest military installation in the western United States with over 100,000 soldiers and airmen stationed there. The real problem is two fold as you alluded to:
1. Soldier Readiness Center (SRC) Mob/Demob site. They have had 2 IG Investigations in the past 2 years (15-6) and one DOA Tiger Team Investigation. All as a result of improper demobilization practices discovered by members of Congress, and at the demand of Congress. There is currently a new investigation regarding improperly overturning PTSD diagnosis by their "forensic psychiatric" team.
2. The Army encourages soldiers to self-identify if they have a psychiatric issue or TBI...and then treats them like they are misfits if they do. This is ingrained and perpetuated through out the Chain of Command. Don't take my word for it, talk to soldiers who were diagnosed with PTSD/TBI, did not receive proper/regular treatment and were administratively discharged rather than medically boarded and medically retired or medically discharged. You see Medical Boards are backed up about 2 years right now and it's cheaper and easier to admin discharge someone for misconduct who is displaying behavioral problems.
Sorry Denise but PTSD and brain injuries do not make good people go house to house murdering innocent women and children. I happen to know Vets who served in Nam and went through things that would make this guys 4 tours look like a walk in the park and they never slaughtered innocent women and children, you have to be a really bad person to begin with to do something like this, brain damage and the stress of war help but you have to be bad deep down inside to do what this guy did. Saying he is not a creep is an insult to everyone who serves with honor.
King Karzai has to win the
heart and mind of the Afghan people, apparently he didn’t and his faith will be
the same like US appointed King of Iran.
First he has to say NATO
get out, and then he should be shown attending Friday prayer and more to get
the support of the religious right, the Taliban.
Think most of Afghan don’t
have radio or TV; “word of mouth” is not very effective.
You could never explain to these people that this was one soldier that went berserk. If he was a Taliban and had a bomb strapped to his body that killed tens of people, they would understand and wouldn't be calling for revenge. Unfortunately, we aren't just fighting the Taliban. Now we are fighting the very people we are trying to protect. It's time to cut our losses and let these tribes stay in the stone age and solve their on problems.
Less We Forget:
March 16, 1968 My Lai Massacre American Soldiers of Charlie Company, 11th infantry Brigade, Americal Division entered the Vietnamese village My Lai and killed from 300 to 400 Women, Children and elderly Vietnamese, many of the victims were Raped, Tortured and Shot, some bodies were Mutilated.
While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions only Army Lt. William Calley a platoon leader was Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence. President Richard Nixon order him released after he served 3 1/2 years under house arrest for Mass Murder.
Three US servicemen Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn who had tried to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were later denounced by several US Congressmen. They received hate mail and death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps. It was 30 years before they were honored for their efforts.
My Lai has absolutely nothing to do with this. The liberal media loves bad-mouthing our troops, and you aren't one bit better.
My Lai has everything to do with this. My Lai was the result of combat stress that you can't imagine unless you've been in a combat zone. It's just that some people handle it better than others. How is this different? Those who don't remember or learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Afganistan isn't worth it. Neither was Nam, in the end. The dominos didn't fall after all.
spot on capt
I'm really getting suspicious of why they will not identify this person. His name,; identity. Theories abound. Could he be a Muslim American ?
Considering that his wife and children, in the state of WA, have been moved to a "safe house" and are now under the protection of the US Government, I shall assume it is to keep his family safe over here on US soil.
As far as his court-martial, it will be held in Afghanistan for "logistics" reasoning - all the military and civilian witnesses are there. The prosecution will be seeking the death penalty for this horrific massacre.
Maybe he will get "lucky" ... declared insane (unlikely not more than psychopathic) ... do a few years in a mental institution .... THEN MOVE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU AND YOUR KIDS with his 2nd amendment rights of gun ownership.... like a ex-military shooter with PTSD in TX who came out of the same US base he did.
No way this man will get off. He will be executed as a political move. I would not be surprised if photos and video of his execution were released to the afghan people.
The guy had nothing to live for, his marriage was falling apart and to top it off he had brain damage.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a set up, or that he was working with taliban scum to derail any positive motion that may have been going on.
Mark my words, this man is a fallguy. Footage of his death will be released to the afghans and taliban even though footage proving the death of Osama Bin Laden was denied to the public that suffered from his massacre.
It is every bit the same as was My Lai. American army has exposed itself as a savage occupying force for a cause that is celebrated by western media's propaganda, with a lot of myths talked of the enemy, to perpetrate a diatribe of deception, that you all actually start believing them. Or is it because you see the victim Afghans not as fellow humans, however as others, different from the stressed and mentally exhausted murderers of your army? You all need to grow up.
The result of flying him out to the safety of the US will be visiting the present soldiery in Afghanistan, where the next attack on your psychopaths will come, nobody now knows, you will grow ever more paranoid and suspiciously sick. It would have been fairly simple to seek reconciliation by handing him over to the Afghans.
Whatever he is, he should be handed over to the Afghans, I don't think that the Afghans will treat him any different if he turns out to be Muslim American. But Americans on this discussion site have already demonstrated an acutely discriminating 'us' and 'them' attitude.
I am Independent but do lean a little to the left and I resent the Labeling that go's on on these boards. I believe that no American should be tried anywhere else but the United States. Bring him home and try him.
And what if a dozen and half Americans are murdered by a foreigner, almost all of them young children and women, and the foreigner is flown back to his country, to be 'tried', you will be perfectly fine, I trust.
On another note, when I hear about migrants from Africa being involved in crimes in the US and Western Europe, especially on a certain race of proud ones, I think of that as poetic justice, after centuries of badsalooki that the Africans suffered at their hands. You Afghans shall visit you sooner rather than later.
quoting from a Sunni Muslim, yezeed, who speaks the REAL TRUTH;
"....Speaking of, "Savage Occupying Forces", The Shi'a of Syria,
the minority in Syria, The Shi'a, that RULE OVER The Majority Sunni Muslim population,
DID Commit a MASSACRE, on 40,000( FORTY THOUSAND), of Syria's Sunni Muslim Citizens,
February 2, 1982.
The True Sunni Muslims fought hard, but were NO MATCH, for the artillery and the weaponry,
AND The FANATICAL HATE of The Shi'a, *rawaafid*,
that KILLED 40,000 Sunni Muslims, in an "Orgy of Merciless Cruelty".
The Shi'a cleric Khomeini, DEFENDED The Syrian Shi'ite Murderers,
but, Khomeini is NOT a true Muslim, and his takfir is Worthless.
....a Close Inspection of the Leaders of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, >
REVEALS them ALL to be Shi'a,
WITH SHI'ITE AGENDAS !"
The Agenda to Turn ALL OTHERS, against EACH OTHER!!!!
There WILL BE a War
BUT, it WILL BE a Religious War;
and The Sides Will BE,
Christian, Jewish, Hindu, AND SUNNI Muslims, UNITED,
AGAINST THE Shi'a Agenda of the Shi'a FANCIFUL DREAMING, of Shi'a World Supremacy, and of Shi'a Rule OVER ALL.
Along comes a late modern zionist, ok with Wahhabbi heretics, ok with closet zionists of all hues, muslims, hindus, christians and jews, yet a minority elite, with obvious domination and control over the world.
Rahul,
merely SAY to US, for ALL TO SEE....
....let the Christians SEE
....let the Jews SEE
....let the Hindus SEE
....let The Sunni SEE
That YOU, "SWEAR before ALLAH, (GOD, KRISHNA)
that YOU HOPE and PRAY,
that The Heretical Shi'a NEVER SUCCED to POWER in this World.
mork1from1ork, you are a zionist hate-monger!
I pray and hope that zionist evil is neutralised.
Rahul,
....and, I suppose, that you ALSO "pray and hope", that the Shi'a evil is "neutralised".
Oh yeah, all evil, be it, Shi'a, Sunni, Wahhabbi, Christian, Hindu, may all evil perish!
Rahul,
We may Not agree on the "evil", but, yes,
"May ALL Evil perish".
And to make it better, strike at the root, the zionists. They embody all evil and its reactive and supportive offshoots. May the zionist evil perish first, to lead to a domino's effect on the rest of the evil that it engenders.
Rahul,
forgive me, BUT,
The REAL EVIL, in This World,
IS,
ANY RELIGION
that
DECLARES
that
ALL and EVERYBODY
must BE
The SAME RELIGION!!!!
....and KILL you, if You ARE NOT!!!!
Rahul,
a question, to you, please;
WHY do The People of The TWO Major Sects of Islam,
HATE and KILL, each other??
MY answer, Rahul, IS
they BOTH Think that EVERYONE
MUST BE THE SAME!!!!
Rahul,....?!....
And that zionists believe everyone, the Goyim, to be beneath themselves, that is just as revolting, and that they create divisions, as you tried to, by vilifying one sect against another an proposing that the rest gang up against them, primarily because of the problem that zionists like you have with Iranian Shias' expressed dislike of Zionists' occupation of Palestinian land. The subject of this discussion ought to be the White West's murderous occupation of non-White lands and how to justly deal with it, whereas you have been seeking to bring in your own agendas of destroying the Anti-Zionist Shias into this discussion, by introducing some meaningless drivel.
It's a shame that it happen ! and it puts our troops in more danger ! but I don't think we should be over there in the first place ! there disgusting people ! and they never liked or aided us in any way !
Before deciding his fate Obama wants to know who he voted for in the 2008 Election
Know a man by the quality of his mind. You've just shown us yours.
"When they show you who they are...believe them!"
Watch how man civilians are killed during the Afghan 'retaliation' to this incident.
We will never know because apparently they are all peaceful and never kill women and children ever. What a load of crap. They kill countless women and children daily. They are scum.
At least they won't be American civilians...
(there shouldn't be American civilians in Afghan, unless they're cilivilian contractors for Black Water)!
Does this really surprise me that would happen not really. All of these men and women are on the brink of exploding.
We need to get out of that place TODAY because this will happen again and again our men and women are all tired of going to war over and over again enough is enough.
MAY GOD KEEP ALL OF OUR MEN AND WOMEN SAFE IN THAT COUNTRY NOW AND UNTIL THEY ALL COME HOME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!
Afganistan, Afganistan. The grapes have been mashed enough, all the ingredients have been added. It's time to cork the bottle, put it on the shelf, and see if we get wine or vinegar. Enough's enough. Bring 'em home.
The UCMJ is sooo 17th Century. I do not see how anyone can get a fair trial in a military court. Especially in a case such as this. Seems already that Obama is trying to appease the Karzai Drug Cartel and all his whacko countrymen. Panetta going over there doing this grandiose 'knee jerk' isn't helping. It already has the stench of 'political correctness', and there hasn't been a conclusive investigation. Throwing one of our soldiers to the wolves isn't going to set well with the voters. Hope he's thought of that. Its as though he's already been convicted.
he confessed (bragged) about him massacring those families when he was found, and then arrested ... and then he demanded a lawyer. They already had a manhunt out for him for going AWOL - military land and helicopter search parties were looking for him as he committed mass murder. I wonder if he confessed just before they could arrest him so that his confession cant be admitted in court because they didnt have a chance to give him his miranda rights yet. Is that why he confessed when he did, then refused to talk anymore without an attorney????? That is NOT the mind of a person who "snapped", but a cold, premeditated and calculating mind.
Do you know when the UCMJ was created and what the intent is? The UCMJ was written in 1950 and formally approved by Congress in 1951.By the way do you know whom is the finally approving authority for a Military Death Sentence, Yes you guesssed it right the President of the United states. This is why there is little coming out of the White House. The SCOD went to the Theater to basically as a moral booster. The President has appeased no one. By the way you have to be gone 24 hours before you are classified as AWOL. Its not called the Miranda in the Military its called a Rights Warning Card
Please explain:
Why the brass being policed up was old and tarnished and of various calibre.
Why did witnesses claim to hear gunshots an hour before this man left his base and none after.
Why witnesses claimed to see more than one shooter, and none were wearing Afghan garb as this man was when he turned himself in.
Why the Elder was not at home at the time, and whether there were any threats by the Taliban against his family for being a colaborator.
Why -if he's the shooter- did he walk so far past so many other homes and single these two out. Both of which being homes of elders relocated by Karzai.
Why the only thing he said was, "I did it."? Did what ? Snuck out? Got in a firefight? What ?
Why the only person noticing him gone was another Afghan.
Why the bodies were removed without forensics, or removal of bullets to determne calibre and ballistics
Why the bodies were partially burned. (type of weapons used?)
Why arent they saying what his name is?
Why did Panetta mention that he didn't know if it was a confession?
What puts him at the scene ?
and Perry, I will bet you consider yourself a god-fearing christian american who opposes women's rights and considers civil rights one of the bigest mistakes America ever did.
This guy wiped out 2 familes plus some cuz he was pissed at his wife and couldnt get his hands on her while AWOL so he could kill people. The other soldiers seen and the helicopter heard were probably part of that search party looking for him - the civilians wouldnt have known that. He walked a mile before his rampage which gave the helicopters and ground search teams just enough time to be seen before he began stabbing and shooting babies and their mothers and setting them on fire without even knowing if they were dead yet from their stab wounds.
As far as the bullets, they have some from the burnt bodies .... and the timeline shows that he was "caught at about 3 am, shots were heard about 2 am and he went AWOL at about 1 am.
Dont defend this POS, pray for the American soldiers who will now die because he was pissed at his wife and how the victims if his violent rage, while trying to mourn their dead, are being treated as terrorists on their own soil, in their own homes, because the taliban has vowed revenge against all americans.
Pray and cry for those American soldiers who dont make it home because Sgt Jockey Strap got mad at his wife over an email.
I shudder to think what he would have done to her and his kids if they tried to protect her from him if he had been "home" when he got whatever news was in that email.
@recycled hope
You could be absolutely right as well, and i'll respect your opinion on this as well. But, I am not defending this POS. I'm only pointing out that this case really stinks and I suspect we're being set up. Again. I do however believe in our justice system and believe that he has a constitutional right for a fair trial and be judged by a jury of his peers and not thrown to the Afghans for political correctness or expediency. He's being tried thus far in the media. I really do not believe we're getting the true facts. If the guy did what they are saying he did, I hope they hang him and send every Afghan a video. But, I want to know the truth. And, I want our system of justice to prevail irregardless of politics and media hype.
I agree that he should have a fair trial in a US court court of law and since he is military, It will be conducted through the military under the UCMJ. TRhey have already announce he will be tried by the military, if found fit to stand trial, in Adghanastan so that both the military and civilian witnesses to his conduct and actions can testify both for and against him. That is very fair since most of the witnesses would NOT be able to participate is he was on US soil. I am sure that whatever the verdict of his "peers", the sentence/aquittal based upon insanity of death sentence, life in prison/treatment in a mental health hospital will be administered here in the USA, on American soil.
It would be an injustice if his confession/admission of guilt were thrown out since he used the wisdom to immediatelt spout it before his arrest (and miranda rights) and incarceration for being AWOL and murder.
Perry shhhhh now...be quiet now...
You're asking too many real world questions...that will not do!! You mustn't ask questions...
This whole thing is about to implode like WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7...put a 100-ton jet airliner into a 16-foot diameter hole my a$$.
What is ashame is our government has sent these soldier back 4 x knowing they are all most 50X more likely to have mental issues after 3x.
In effect our government is to blame which makes us all to blame for this case.
I blame our gov't because they wont let them fight a war and get it over with. And whats this sh!t disarming our marines before they can listen to panetta speak. It just goes to show you that our leaders are a bunch of cowards and should be replaced with real generals, not these appointed liberal loonies that obama finds !!!!
A motorcycle bomb went off in Kandahar city in southern Afghanistan, killing an Afghan intelligence soldier and wounding two, as well as a civilian, while a roadside bomb killed 8 civilians in neighboring Helmand province, officials said, as Panetta kicked off a two-day trip by visiting troops.
Every day we read about them killing each other yet we stick around over there tying to democracize a culture because our government thinks Democracy is the answer to everything. Or is it just the oil that needs to be democracized.
What is the burning of the cross ......do they think they are imitating KKK......
Islam long ago declared 'holy war' on Christianity. Unfortunately, all the PC idiots in Washington threw that memo away and are still trying to win hearts and minds of a people who's religion commands them to kill anyone who does not worship Allah and Mohammed. Our military is caught up in that fight, but only to the point where we must not 'offend' any of them. Shooting them is OK, but only if they shoot first. Of course, Muslims 'shoot' by blowing up themselves and their cohorts in order to kill as many people as possible, hoping there might be an infidel among them. It is all about being brainwashed from birth to think that Christians are evil. Maybe we should just concentrate on knocking down their favorite phallic symbols -- the minarets at their mosques. Then they might understand how we really feel about them.
"Maybe we should just concentrate on knocking down their favorite phallic symbols -- the minarets at their mosques. Then they might understand how we really feel about them."
Absolutely hilarious that you suggest that your position has anything to do with Christianity. I wonder what Christ had to say about how we should respond to our enemies... oh, wait, there's no need to wonder because it is quite clear:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also...“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."
You can call for revenge or you can call yourself a Christian, but you can't do both at the same time.
Amen brother, but that's a tough nut to crack for most people. If someone calls themselves a Christian and commits a crime then they jump to the conclusion that all Christians are evil just the same as we jump to the conclusions that all Muslims are evil when a small group commit crimes. It's long past time to get the hell out and let those folks take care of themselves. We've accomplished all of the stated "objectives" that took use there in the first place and it's time to GO. ENOUGH. The only reason we're still there, besides the covert one of having a jumping off place to invade Iran, is because the current administration can't have all those unemployed troops dumped on the streets at election time. Enough of the lies, corruption, and politicking. Forget about getting reelected Mr. President and do the right thing ...... for once.
How can anyone shoot a child? Don't lead them as much.
You probably could have found a more appropriate line from "Full Metal Jacket", don't you think?
I believe it's :
Door Gunner: Git some! Git some! Git some, yeah, yeah, yeah! Anyone who runs, is a VC. Anyone who stands still, is a well-disciplined VC! You guys oughta do a story about me sometime!
Private Joker: Why should we do a story about you?
Door Gunner: 'Cuz I'm so @!$%#in' good! I done got me 157 dead gooks killed. Plus 50 water buffalo, too! Them's all confirmed!
Private Joker: Any women or children?
Door Gunner: Sometimes!
Private Joker:How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?