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Subscribe to RSSThe President of Afghanistan is asking the U.S. to hand over all security responsibilities by 2013. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
Updated at 3:45 p.m. ET: Afghanistan's president on Thursday called for U.S. and other foreign forces in Afghanistan to leave villages in the country and move to larger bases instead, according to Hamid Karzai's office.
In a statement -- which comes amid the ongoing controversy over the killing of 16 Afghan civilians in Panjwai, Kandahar province, allegedly by a lone U.S. soldier -- Karzai's office said he had made the request to U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and said that "Afghan Security forces currently have the ability to secure the villages around the country."
The statement also said that NATO-led foreign forces needed to have "complete respect for their religion and the Afghan culture. No foreign troops should enter Afghans homes. And they should pay more attention on reconstruction and financial support for our country."
The American soldier accused of gunning down 16 Afghan civilians, including nine children, has been flown out of Afghanistan to Kuwait. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
"Karzai said that both sides should work on accelerating the process and that they should hand over all the security responsibilities in 2013 instead of 2014," it added.
"We demand that the process move quickly and they transfer authority into Afghan hands," it added.
In a near-simultaneous announcement, the Afghan Taliban said it was suspending nascent peace talks with the United States seen as a strong chance to end the country's decade-long conflict, blaming "shaky, erratic and vague" U.S. statements.
The White House denied Taliban accusations and insisted that Washington had been consistent in its message.
"We support an Afghan-led process toward reconciliation. There is no likely resolution to the conflict in Afghanistan without a political resolution," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.
At the State Department, spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the U.S. is still "prepared to continue these discussions," but will "have to see where this goes now," NBC News reported. "We still feel that if there is a process that can be supported that we ought to do that ... Our only goal is to get Afghans to sit down together," she said.
Nuland said the process so far has had a "lot of ups and downs."
Scott Olson / Getty Images
U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta visits with troops on Wednesday at Forward Operating Base Shukvani, Afghanistan.
Gavin Sundwall, U.S. Embassy spokesman in Kabul, echoed the comments, NBC News said.
On Karzai’s statement, he also said, “The transition to Afghan security lead is already under way,” NBC News reported. “About half of all Afghans currently live in areas where Afghan security forces are taking responsibility.”
He said NATO will decide the next phase of transition including the shift of coalition forces to a support role in 2013.
'Cruel and brutal'
The announcement from Karzai's office said Panetta had "once again paid his condolences to the Afghan President and to the people of Afghanistan on the behalf of his government and his people for the Panjwai incident."
Karzai described the killings of the 16 people, including women and children, as "a cruel and brutal action."
In this extended interview, British Prime Minister David Cameron talks to NBC's Brian Williams about Iran, Afghanistan, the 2012 Olympics, the "special relationship" with the United States and whether or not he has danced around like Hugh Grant's character in "Love Actually."
"The President also added that this incident has lost their trust with Afghans," the statement said.
The soldier accused of carrying out the Panjwai shooting was based at a small special forces compound similar to others around the country that underpin NATO's counter-insurgency strategy.
Soldier accused in Afghan massacre flown out of country
The killings on Sunday have raised questions about Western strategy in Afghanistan and intensified calls for the withdrawal of foreign combat troops.
NYT: An Afghan elder comes home to find a massacre
Panetta discussed the massacre with Karzai at his heavily guarded palace and faced demands from the Afghan leader that any trial be transparent.
"I assured him first and foremost that I shared his regrets about what took place. I again pledged to him that we are proceeding with a full investigation here and that we will bring the individual involved to justice. He accepted that," Panetta told reporters before leaving Afghanistan.
It appears highly unlikely that the staff sergeant accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians will be returned to Afghanistan for court martial. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
Taliban suspends peace talks
The Afghan Taliban, which describes itself as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, said it had decided to suspend peace talks after opening a diplomatic office in Qatar earlier this year to enable talks to go ahead.
Obama, Cameron stand in united front
"It seems that the invading Americans and their stooge regime took advantage of these measures of Islamic Emirate and sought to achieve other malicious objectives and therefore are postponing the core issues and are wasting time," the Taliban said.
"So the Islamic Emirate has decided to suspend all talks with Americans taking place in Qatar from today onwards until the Americans clarify their stance on the issues concerned and until they show willingness in carrying out their promises instead of wasting time," it added.
Marines asked to disarm before Panetta speech
The austere Islamist movement said it was fully prepared to continue its "long-term Jihadi strategies" as the traditional summer fighting months approached, following a harsh winter which had dulled fighting in several volatile provinces.
In the latest attack, a roadside bomb killed 13 Afghan civilians, including women and children, and wounded two on Thursday in the south of the country, provincial officials said.
More than 3,000 civilians were killed in the war in Afghanistan in 2011, the fifth year in a row the number has risen, according to the United Nations.
NBC News and Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Although if I had to, I would say GET THE "F" OUT NOW and not just out of the villages but out of Afghanistan period.
Leave the Afghani people to do what they will and bring the American soldiers home.
However as I have said previously the Sergeant responsible for killing the 16 Afghani civilians.... Sayonara Mo Foe you get to stay!!!!
I would say "Ok, but when you become a hot bed for terrorists with a bunch of US military training like you did 20 years ago, we are going to F#@K you up with drones, just so you know"
And then leave...
Wow. Who ever would of thought that a super-majority of Americans would agree wholeheartedly with the President of Afghanistan? Too bad our government doesn't
Of course the one thing the super-majority doesn't agree with the President of Afghanistan on is that the hundreds of thousands of 'gift' burlap bags of cash that we deliver to him anonymously at his request needs to end.
There's nothing that we need ground forces in Afghanistan on to control that region that flyovers, drones, and satellite survelliance wouldn't serve our national security better, faster, and cheaper.
Here is a better suggestion. How about we get them out of Afghanistan completely!
What if the SGT's intentions were to create a situation where we were told to get out early, possibly saving a thousand US soldiers lives and possibly thousands more Afghani's. It would not change what he had done, but I believe many would see him as a hero for standing up for what he believed.
How do we know that the American soldier that did this isn't a member of the Taliban. Great way to insight the public against the US.
Anybody have a story to tell from Afghanistan that explains what or if any good is happening from our sacrifice of blood and treasure? Anybody?
I have a better idea Karzai! How about "we" just get the F. out of your country all together!!
Ungreatful ass!
rrobeson
I would like to see that as well. What I would like to see more is a story of the Afghan people dragging an Al Queda member out and put them on trial for offenses against Afghanistan. That would prove we made an impression.
@rrobsen
Just so you’re aware I'm not American, I'm Canadian. However that doesn't mean I don't care for my American neighbors and what your soldiers and their families must be going through.
Peace!!!
Lets oblige but get completely out of that cat box.
What our solder did was terrible but our men and women can only sacrifice their own lives for these morons, only to be crapped on in return for so long before they loose it. But this last statement in the article is priceless.
"In the latest attack, a roadside bomb killed 13 Afghan civilians, including women and children, and wounded two on Thursday in the south of the country, provincial officials said."
Way to go Afghans! What a bunch of barbaric brainless crabs! At least we know who did the killing and he will be dealt with. The spineless sand flee who blew these people up lives to strike another day.
I am of the opposite opinion. I say that we find those who are willing to work with the US and support them. I say that we DO NOT respect their religion and culture which has been stagnant and repressive. I say that we create divisions of female troops and teach them how to fight. SET THEM lose on Afghanistan men. DEAL with women and kill anyone that stands up against us. It is not like anyone will miss the Afghan taliban and their culture anyway.
If we are going to fight a war, fight a war as it needs to be fought. Kill Karzi and his thieves, find someone that will work with us and let the dogs of war loose. This "Police Action" crap is BS. Civilized Germany didn't even get government until 5 years after the war ended, yet we give Karzai ownership in a year.
We need less lawyers in Washington and more historians.
Why stop at the villages? I say we get out of the COUNTRY, period.
Get US troops out of Afghanistan. No more bull@!$%#.
Wait, that's not what Karsai is saying. He doesn't really want us to leave because we need to " pay more attention on reconstruction and financial support for our country."
Karzai, allow me to correct the last part of the sentence....'get Americans out of Afghanistan!' So much for the mineral + gold mine operated by the Chinese government and one that we're protecting. Battle for 'freedom' for the Afghan people, it is not!
Name one person besides Sean Hannity that supports the (War) er I um mean police state by US Forces?
John, Exactly what gives you the notion that this guy killed civilians to save the lives of others? That seems to be an extreme stretch to me. Anyone that thinks any good would come from killing children has got some logic and humanity screws loose.
MOSinEUR, We understand the frustration. Sometimes you just want to grab the bull by the horns and direct the action as you say, no matter how impossible it would be. "Create divisions of female troops"? "Do not respect their religion and culture"? I'll write those illogical statements off to the emotion of the situation.
No, we need to leave. The situation is so very foreign to anyone with our culture of caring, that we are bound to lose control from time to time, all with dire consequences like today. We are asking to much of our young. And if we train them any harder (called brainwashing), we will ruin their futures even more than we already have. Even the ones that "behave themselves" to support our goals come back so screwed up they can't see straight. Just accept it. Our differences are too great.
If we quit screwing around with the Mid East altogether, the Afghans, the Taliban... even Al Qaeda... would forget we even exist. The more we try to change them to be like us, the more they hate us. The more we tell them what to do, the more they desire to do the opposite. If we give them no reason to hate us, they will not hate us. And maybe now is the first time in recent history that someone may listen to the notions I just presented. We can only hope. Let's start by getting out.
LMarcT
I wasn't there, but I believe a few massacres happened that were part of us leaving Vietnam? If there is anything soldiers know, I think it is self sacrifice. Look what they do for us.
LMarcT
Um, no. You live in an isolated environment surrounded by ignorance. We export our culture (TV shows/Movies) globally. Believe it or not, there is a culture war going on. Your argument is that if there was no ATF there would be no drug or gun crimes. Ignoring something doesn't make it go away.
LMarcT ... spoken like a true Wiseman, I could not have said it any better myself.. However if I had to, I would say "john 737278 you are off your rocker and should never be given any kind of weaponry in life." I pray the 737278 is not any kind of military #
Sorry just seems a little too much to even consider.
Rush Limbaugh, the most intelligent and reasonable man on the Earth. And he drinks Johnnie Walker. <3
Karzai wants the troops out of the villages and the U.S. will comply. We the people of the U.S., want the troops out of Afghanistan and we get the finger! What's wrong with this picture? Karzai wants reconstruction and financial support and the U.S. will no doubt comply while our roads and bridges fall apart and we borrow money to give Karzai! If the Afghans can handle security they surely can handle their own construction projects with their own money. Bring our troops home now and put away the check book!
Eric,
If the soldier was a member of the Taliban, it surely would be the American Taliban led by Santorum.
fnkheehaw
I never said that is what he did and for those reasons. I simply don't believe in statements saying we should leave him to Afghan justice. He served proudly for many years, and deserves respect for those years.
And yes, I do own guns.
Ellis...we obviously have our own crazy nutcases.....
Continuing the wars is just about the economics. I note that while I've lost 60% of my 401K, defense contractors have increased their business by 60%.
Bring these people home and rebuild our country.
The cronies are on both sides of the isle. Look at George Sorros, he has been seeing increases even during 2008 and later.
John 737278
When you take a life for absolutely no purpose there is no respect.. You might as well say that someone who gets up and kills someone should still be given credit for previous years of their life. No way! Isn't that why you have the death penalty in America?.....soldier or not.
As for Sandtrich ... I understand how it's affected you personally and it's truly sad.
Out went the British, then the Soviets, then the Americans.
Will we never learn from history?
We should immediately leave the Afghans to solve their security issues since their President indicates the NATO Troops are no longer needed. What we can't take with us should be completely destroyed and made totally unusable and unrecognizable - leave nothing that works behind. When we leave the flow of U.S. funds stop. Use those funds to assist the U.S. taxpayer who has paid the bills.
The nerve of Karzai! We go in, massacre their people, and now he wants us to leave!
Ungrateful!
LTMarc -
You do understand that as one of the infidels [I'm guessing], these terrorist scumbags want to see you and the rest of us dead? There is no way they will forget we exist since as long as we exist it gives them reason to kill us all. It is in the national interests of ALL freedom loving western countries to maintain a vigilant stance on that part of the world...or else.
I would be all for bringing our soldiers home. Pack them up and get them home asap! Once that occurs they Afghans will then complain that the US did not teach them enough, did not give them enough money and tool advantage of their land. Then the Taliban will once again, take over and control the villages with fear, as most of the villages are...still.......and will be!
I doubt the soldier was a taliban in disguise, he was, however, a soldier that was on his 4th deployment over there I believe (third or fourth) and he may have flipped his biscuit finally. He was at a special forces compound so he was probably and operator. I have trained with many incredible operators but I have to say that we all have our breaking points. some reach it before others. He could have had enough.
Pull out our troops now and lets stop sinking money into that sand pit. But now the soldiers are being downsized and sent back to civilian life, even if they are not prepared. The goverment is attacking the vets and military and we still have active duty soldiers on food stamps and can barely feed their kids and now they are being sent away because the military is downsizing. Amazing.
Am I the only one who thinks we should get out of the Middle East altogether? We don't belong there. It is not our country. Let them choose their own paths. I'm sick and tired of the US trying to be the savior of the world. We have too many people in our own country without healthcare, without homes, without foods or any of the other basic necessities. Let's take all the money we shower on "helping" those nations that don't want us and certainly do not appreciate our help and use it on our own citizens. We got Bin Laden. It should be over.
Enough Americans have been killed fighting wars that are not ours. Enough is enough.
It sounds like Karzai is working for the Taliban, so we really don't need them to negotiate their peace treaty, just pull back the troops and give them a little elbow room, do you know how inconvenient it is to try and run a terrorist ring with all those damn US and British bases all over the place, you cant get a damn thing accomplished, they can't even blow up a school! or have a good stoning of the women for not dressing in the proper way! and the audacity of that soldier for intruding on the Taliban's turf and killing Innocent civilians that's not in the rules, only the Taliban can do that! this infringement on other peoples jobs has got to stop. this is what Karzai wants, pull back the troops and give back to the Taliban what you took from them in the past 2 years, stay on your big basses, do not go outside of them except to pass out money, speaking of money give me more money, I want to build another hotel in Dubai its for national security, absolutely no more talk about building roads, roads are to dangerous people keep planting bombs on them, give us helicopter's instead and we can get our opium to market safely. as far as security goes don't worry about that we can take care of our selves if you give us some extra money for that purpose say $ 5 billion a week. did I mention some pension plans for my family! maybe you should disarm all your troops as a gesture of good will, that will show the Taliban you mean them no harm, and set a good example. the Afghan people will protect your troops for a small price. we also want more apologies from Obama, it makes us look good in the art of world affairs when he does that. The Taliban has some request of their own, we will let you know the details after we have them all worked out.
Thank you, DingleB. You caught that, too. It seems to me what he is saying is, "Get OUT like my people want you to, shhhhh.....just kidding. What we REALLY want is for you to give us more money and you can stay if that is all it takes to make the extra money flow like water." Gotta give it to him, the man knows how to pad the pockets of he and his friends.
Someone forgot to tell these morons that we are only IN Afghanistan because they were unable to take care of the terrorists using their country as a springboard. And because they are so efficient and intelligent, we are still there because they can't run the show themselves. I, like many others, think we should level every building we spent money building (bases, schools, houses, shops, government offices, etc), burn the wood, then leave and take our toys AND our money with us. If the Afghan people are so sharp (maybe they are trying to make us THINK they are stupid), they will recover just fine and have an economy similar to that of German or Japan within a few years. LOL....and they lived happily every after. THE END.
Very well. We leave Afghanistan, but prior to leaving we completely destroy the poppy fields that produce the opiates that allow the Taliban to finance their operations.
Hdawg- Super impressive ... you married?
Oldport
This notion that they hate us because we are so advanced and caring and all... is a real load of crap. It ignores their perspectives, and the reality about us.
So let's say that they were just looking for someone to hate and randomly came up with us because we are so "different" from them. Does it then make any sense whatsoever to then enact a strategy that reinforces those differences by trying to make them "like us"?
It makes NO SENSE at all.
Let's see... while we were there we... killed civilians... killed more civilians... pissed on dead Taliban... invaded their country... created a puppet government in our likeness... killed more civilians... burned their holy books... more than a few times... and promised to leave after we "tamed" their primitive souls.
Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Iraq II, Egypt, Iran, Syria, Pakistan... we have not-so-pleasant histories throughout the area and throughout time...
But they hate us because they don't care for our life-style?
Wake up buds. WE ARE the reason.
If Afghanistan wants to continue to live in primitive conditions, let them. If they want to continue to murder each other and fight the Taliban for another 30 years, fine. Just don't ask for our help. We're fed up with their whining and blaming us for the problems they created.
And since they don't appreciate getting help with security and building schools and roads, we won't build them anymore. No more medical help either. Maybe we should destroy all the work we've done for them. Solve your own problems Afghanistan. We're leaving.
HDawg wrote:
Some people are saying that they are the terrorists, when in many of their eyes, we are the terrorists. Imagine if foreign troops were in the U.S., doing what we're doing over there... what would we think of that? It's all a matter of perspective. Time to get out. To call these wars mistakes, is an understatement. That they've been going on as long as they have, makes it even worse. (And let's keep that in mind before heading all gung-ho with Israel to Iran. Let Israel make their own mistakes. There's no need to add any more to our never-ending list.)
From the article: "No foreign troops should enter Afghans homes. And they should pay more attention on reconstruction and financial support for our country."
Well president Karzai, how about we Don't go into the villagers homes and we Don't pay attention to reconstruction and financial support to your country.
This was an act committed by one deranged Army Staff Sargent. He will be prosecuted and punished severely, - maybe even the death sentence.
President Karrzai wants everything his way and takes the financial rewards from the U.S. and other countries gleefully.
President Karzai, go to Hell.
The sooner we get out of that @!$%# hole the sooner I have my brother and cousin home 8)
Maybe they can get jobs protecting the southern border 8)
What we should do is:
Personally, I rather see a drone go down instead of a Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman.
we no longer trust the Afgan troops we trained, our Government leaders no longer trust our troops (disarm them when meeting with them), our citizens no longer trust our Government, our troops are stretched to the limit, and yet for some unknown reason , we stay in a no win, useless war; what the hell are our leaders drinking; and Congress, does nothing but campaign on abortion, gay rights, school prayer, talk about a group of useless human beings.
Just before we invaded Iraq, an associate said he hoped Bush wouldn't. He believed that in the end it would Bush's Viet Nam and the only legacy left by his presidency. We were already involved in one guerilla based war which we probably weren't going to just as the Russians before us and invading Iraq would put us at the short end of the stick in both.
Colin Powell as Secretary of State, asked President Bush what were our plans for after we won. There were none. We will leave both countries worse off than they were before economically and will have done nothing to insure the safety of the average citizen as is the case in many of our own cities. Detroit for example.
We never went into Afghanistan with a will to win. Let's quit pretending and just get out. Let Karzai and his army do the job they've supposed be doing. Given my druthers, I'd like to see a complete pull out by September 1, of this year.
I looked back in my notes, when was it that Karzai remarked that the killing of US troops was cruel and barbaric? I couldn't find it.
Karsai wants us out of the villages. I'll go one better: Let's just leave and let Karsai live the hero status that he's working on with his people. Bet his flight leaves a few months after the last of our troops leave Afghanistan.
Dr.Cat-- I see your point, but look at it from a realist perspective. Why should we allow terror groups to plot attacks against us with the help of a corrupt government? Should we just hand them flowers? We were pushed into this fight. And it is a shame that the media here criticizes every move we make. Why do you not hear that the Taliban were killing their own people daily before 9/11? Why can the Taliban and Al qaeda and Haqqani kill children and not be held accountable? Why does the media not publish those stories. Who cares about child abuse if it is in another country right?
As for Israel, they need to protect themselves. I am NOT saying we should help them, but if they hit Iran, they will have to deal with Iran, Russia. That they can not do. Iran is provoking them into a war. The day Iran gets a nuke up and running, is the day the world will be different. They will use it.
This world is not going to bend to flower power. It was a joke then, and only harmed our brave soldiers who gave their service. They were not cowards and hid and fled the US.
Julie-401527 wrote:
This is kind of childish. And it would cost more taxpayer money to level everything we built there, then to just let them be and let the Afghans do what they will with them. Let's just get out, learn from our mistakes, and write the whole experience off. Unfortunately, for many innocent Afghans who lost family members and friends, it won't be so easy to do that.
@Kristian113
I agree, Iran will use it and they won't even blink. It's kinda like a suicide bomber just with a bigger bomb.
Although let me not lose focus and say once again "America Get the "F" out of dodge".. No more Afghanistan for America.
From what Karzai said >No foreign troops should enter Afghans homes. And they should pay more attention on reconstruction and financial support for our country."
Just get our troops out and the Afghans reconstruct their country. No AID by our troops and no Money from our Citizens. He is their President and wants us out so be it. But then he wants your dollars. What an Idiot.
Wake up now!
You believe that their hate comes solely from a "culture war" caused by them seeing us on TV? Wow.
Except for the last few years, our goal in the Middle East has been steeped in oil. Not humanity. Not self defense. Oil. Our actions and attitudes have not supported "the people" in any way shape or form. Our nose has been in their business for decades now... and you think it's just "cultural".
They're not perfect and neither are we. And the quicker we realize this and try to understand their perspective, the sooner we'll keep our noses were they belong... completely OUT of their business.
Kristian113 wrote:
We have to ask ourselves, why are they plotting attacks against us in the first place? Why aren't they targeting places like New Zealand or Switzerland? I think the answers are pretty clear. Because of the stance we take there, and our undeniable support of Israel, who they see as terrorists as well.
I disagree. Iran wants nukes for the same reason any country would want a nuke. To encourage potential attackers not to mess with them. To use them as an offensive weapon is suicide, and while Iran's government, like all governments, have questionable people involved, they're not that stupid.
Doen't anyone know how to post their own comment? You just gonna keep replying to the same one?
fnkheehaw wrote:
That's what the fear-mongers want you to think. But Iran is the most westernized country in the Middle East. It's people, on average, are well educated. No one is crazy enough to willfully want to nuke a country, knowing full well they'll be nuked one hundred-fold in return. If they were, Pakistan and India would have had a full-blown nuclear fun-fest by now.
Well "Dr Cat, I can tell you have never served. This is a cliche in the Army whenever we are leaving an area and have to police the area up. Leveling these compounds will denied them to the enemy since the ANA can not man all of these areas.
Besides, it gives the Combat Engineers some training [sarc]
I was an army brat for 18 years, I served my time. ;)
Dr.Cat- The US is much bigger than New Zealand and Switzerland. We have more at stake. Yes, our policies have been crud for a long time. Long before Bush was in office. But, the US also helps so many countries and nothing is ever said of our humanitarianism. Every country ( even the Swiss ) do things that are questionable. Not just the US. Every news agency would like you to believe we do nothing. So you do not hear about it. I have seen first hand that diplomacy doesn't work with people who just want to kill. Terrorists do not care about diplomacy. They care about greed and power and murder. Once again, why do you not hear how bad the Taliban are? They gassed little girls who were going to school. Does that not make them a threat since that is what they have always wanted across the globe? We can not just let people who do not think like us, threaten our way of life. Remember how America felt on 9/12, 9/13, and just after 9/11. The anger towards people who want us dead. The way Americans treated each other was great. I am not a coward, I will fight again for my country. I love this country. And I am not ashamed of my country.
As for Iran, they will use a nuke. They do not care. You have to understand that if they attack Israel, the other moronic countries that hate Israel, will jump on board. Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Russia and more will jump with Iran.
The real problem in this world right now is radical Islam. Not the US. We are protecting ourselves from being killed and controlled by bigotry and murder.
Karzai is just as two-faced as Pakistan. He takes our money and does nothing to curb the amount of violence the Taliban commit on his people. He is a dangerous puppet. He doesn't care about human rights. The US at least, at the risk of our own soldiers, tightened the ROE. The cowardly Taliban use woman and kids as shields and mentally handicapped kids as suicide bombers. Why should they be allowed to commit atrocity after atrocity and the world ( except the US and our Coalition ) try to stop them. They are the problem. Not us. Peace to you
Why Brian 411952 ?.... you just did!!!
We need to do him one better and get U.S. troops out of ALL of Afghanistan. Whatever chances we had of a positive outcome are gone, so it is time to call it a day and let these folks return to their primitive ways !!
It is interesting that Karzai wants major changes to US policy in his country when one of our soldiers snaps and kills women and children. At the same time they are in negotiations with the Taliban who kill women and children with roadside bombs as part of their normal opperations.
Another reason why our military should be used only as an attack vessel and not humanitarians or protectors of US contractors. We are the US government and we are here to save you people that don't want us here or like us. Use the military to level aggressors that have caused us to respond with war, leave the rebuilding to their neighbors and let the defense department's mativation be defending us.
So i am confused here. The Taliban will continue their long term Jihadi tactics, like roadside bombs that kill civilian women and children. So are they mad at the soldier who killed the innocent family members, or are they jealous?. So it's Ok for afghan's to kill their own people but just don't let it be a westerner. As far as karzai, we shood give him his wish. We should leave tomorrow so the taliban can come in and cut off his head. He is considered a puppet of the US so it is funny to see him demanding anything from the US. He should be kissing our feet that we came in there and propped him up to begin with. He is a corrupt, empty shell that will be out of office and maybe out of breath within weeks of the NATO withdrawal. I say give them what they want, let's just leave. And give em the POS soldier who went on the rampage. America does not need or want him rotting away in our jails. He deserves the highest punishment for what he did and who better to extract the revenge than the people he murdered.
Hey, remember Vietnam? I do, I was there--what was that about? In today's money, more than Afghanistan and over 50,000 lives, and 100,000s wounded and we did what? Get the hell out of looser countries, stop spending money on loosers, and stop wasting lives for profit. Corporations if you want something, hire Chinese....fkkk you...
the pharmacy companies want the opiates from the poppy crops.
American Taxpayers: "Get us troops out of Afghanistan!"
Then enlist. Don't talk crap...enlist! We need fresh troops.
As to the list of countries that would attack Israel after it is nuked...are you kidding me? You really do need to enlist just to get a handle on NBC Warfare (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical). Do you have any idea how expensive it is to operate an army in a radioactive environment? The Russians might be able to afford it but no one else on that list. And what would be gained by attacking dying people? Besides, the other countries wouldn't join Iran because there would be no Iran. Our mutual defense arrangement with Israel would oblige us to turn Iran into a sheet of radioactive glass. The entire war would be over within 15 minutes (assuming we have the launch capability in the Persian Gulf and only a fool would assume we don't). It would remain lifeless (for the most part) for probably 250,000 years (at least for higher life forms). You could pretty much kiss Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, southern Turkey, western Afghanistan and much of the rest of that part of the globe goodbye. At least for anyone living today. Think before you speak otherwise the things you hope for could get you killed.
LMarcT
So if your next door neighbor is beating his wife, according to your rationality, he has the right to and we should stay out of their business. The problem with people who draw moral equivalency arguments have no logic capabilities.
Muslim men do not want there daughters to be having sex until marriage.
Women can not vote in Iran
Women can not drive in Saudi Arabia
30 year old men marry 13 year old girls in Afghanistan
Jihad means "holy war" that means they are willing to kill, fight, and die for their beliefs. No matter what we do there will be a group of radicals that will hate America and want to see it destroyed.
.
The first thing we should pull back is the security detail protecting Karzai. He wouldn't last two days.
As for his comments "they should pay more attention on reconstruction and financial support for our country.", I'd stop all reconstruction efforts and cut off financial support immediately. Let this clown figure out how to get his country out of the stone age without our help or money. We've done too much for them already. And we've certainly been there too long.
Wake up now! - You need to wake-up or grow-up. You think that others hating the USA is a new phenomenon? You think we've only just discovered a thing call "the enemy"? How old are you? I spent years in the US Military learning and training others how to kill communists...years! And the commies were coming to get us. They would burn our homes, rape our daughters, take our bibles...etc. You really do need to get a perspective. WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE ENEMIES!!! You can let them frighten you to death and alter your life or you can learn to accept that fact and move on. If you can't, I suggest you join the US Armed Forces. Perhaps you can develop some courage.
Ol Doc,
You didn't read my post at all. I specifically said we would be hated no matter what! Did the government meds not show up in the mail?
By the way, I did two tours in Iraq while serving in the Air Force.
At the risk of sounding thoughtful, I wold seriously consider Karzai's suggestion.
I read it, I was first amazed by the job you did of framing "why we should interject ourselves" in middle-eastern countries, then your apparent hopelessness that people hate us regardless of our actions. As to your comment about the government meds...you can kiss the darkest part of my lily-white...
Ol_Doc,
We are on the same side here, please settle down. I was not presenting my argument as "hopelessness". I was pointing out that LMarkT is completely delusional, see post 1.19
Dr. Cat Quote
We have to ask ourselves, why are they plotting attacks against us in the first place? Why aren't they targeting places like New Zealand or Switzerland
Are you kidding me? Try reading up on history. These groups radical Islamic, PLO, and such have been attacking all over the globe. I mention this as you also mention about our involvement in other countries(Egypt, Libya, Iraq, etc.). These Islamic groups have attacked or were thwarted in Spain, Belgium, Germany, Lockerbie, Philippines, Mumbai(India), Isreal, UK(England), all over Africa and others. These groups from the middle east hate infidels(people that don't have their beliefs) or people who they consider wronged them even if it was 1000 years ago. This will never change. Yes our involvement has not helped but is surely is not the cause. Do a little research
Nice try dr cat. An army brat does not a Soldier make. I was a Navy brat for 18 years and now am a retire Soldier.
Do sometime, then come back. I bet you never have served your country (let alone your local community) be it in the military, CCC, or the Peace Corps.
Since you enjoy making assumptions, here's one for you; You're probably one of those individuals that consider it helping an old lady to cross a street by saying "Yea lady, the light is green. Go."
karzai will be dead within a week of the americans leaving. and his brother too. and who will care? certainly not many.
Yep, get the H*%$ out of Dodge, but make sure you build my bridges, hospitals, airports, roads, and housing before you leave AND CONTINUE TO PROVIDE ME WITH $$$s.....you suckers.
The TRILLION dollars and thousands of our soldiers lives have come down to what one "deranged" soldier did in a fit of rage against a people that live like dogs and worship the devil himself. They want us to BUILD things for them to blow up, THEY WANT OUR MONEY to buy more poppy seed while they live in the dirt while selling their daughters to the highest paying filthy degenerate. AND WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO GIVE THESE DEGENERATES WHAT THEY WANT. A good 200 megaton H bomb would be a perfect DOWN PAYMENT as far as I am concerned. Isolate their ass, freeze their asserts, stop all trade with us and refuse access to American soil or technology. Let them live in the "dark ages", we need not assist dogs in procreating!
I read how appalled some of you are about the morals, traditions and laws of Iran, saudi Arabia and other foreign nations, how the women are not allowed to vote and the 40 year old men marrying 13 year old girls and dad's not wanting their daughters to have sex until they are married. Sheeze, that sounds like the US pre WWII. Come on folks, that is what is wrong with the right; you want to impose your morals, your ideologies, your ways on every American and every human on earth. You have nearly ruined this nation now you want to reach out and screw up the world. So your answer to the fact women can not vote in Iran is to start a war and kill a 100,000 or so innocent women. You are such a brave martyr sacrificing the lives of innocent women and children for innocent women and children. Ignorant asses really have no share in my air.
Ol Doc- I have 4 wars under my belt. Gulf, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I did right out of high school. I am proud and honorable. I am proud of my country And not ashamed of it either.
I have no problem that dads don't want their girls to have sex at 10,11 or 12 years old, do you?
Ron, this is the complaint in another person's post above. I don't want my 14 year old daughter having sex, but the fact of the matter is about everyone that was born around the 30's and 40's had a momma that was a very young teen when she was first pregnant. The 50's and 60's led to a lot of high school mommies. It's certainly not something that is that distant of a practice in our culture, more or less in 3rd world nations, and better yet, it is another nations culture that we decide we want to impose our morals and cultures upon, just the same way the right does in this nation, and most of the time, those trying to impose morals through legislation are the most immoral specimens that we have. Foley, Swaggart, bakker, and scads others that I can come back and post on her. Gingrich....
jmonarchy
They want to impose their moral values on us, that is the point of "Jihad". You say that we are ignorant for wanting to push our beliefs on someone. Where is your criticism of those who want to impose their values on us?
Like i said before, those who are moral equivalents lack logic. Do you think there is such a thing as a universal morality?
jmonarchy,
Yes, we also had slavery and women could not vote. It is called reformation. You don't see Christian groups strapping bombs to children and killing innocent people on a bus. But according to you, when a Muslim does it in Afghanistan, that is ok, because it is "their culture".
Don't turn politics into a religous platform. You don't know what the hell everyone in that religon wants, and if we controlled immigration better, maybe we wouldn't have so many of them here. They didn't air drop in with battalions of soldiers. Dems sure didn't open up that line of love and importation to them seeing how most of the oil tycoons are republicans and went over nuzzling up to them decades ago. The right is trying to impose their fake values on me. I don't have anybody named Ali Akbar trying to tell me I can't have sex with my wife in any certain fashion, or have sex with who i want. You argument is nil regarding what I was commenting on. We should have gone there, blown them off the map and left. We have spy satellites that can read a newspaper in Kandahar from space. If we see them rconstituting, blow them up again. I think that these people live the same moral lives that the Torah teaches and they live according to the progress of the technology as it is spread across the nation and touches its people. Jhihad is not about the US, they hated us because of our previous dealings with the Mujahadeen, Osama Bin Laden, how we have mingled and used Saudi Peoples while their Sheiks get wealthy and their peoples are still nomads. Should the Russians come and impose their values on us? We have a national government that presides over this country, not the freaking world. You want one world government? If those people want to sacrifice cattle and sheep, I don't care. we can't tend to our own issues in this nation because of radicals so why would the rest of the world accept our morals as sagacious and perfect?
reformation? I see idiots blowing up abortion clinics and there are scads of religous radicals, that will kill in the name of religopn but know nothing about the God they claim as saviour. That reformation was OUR reformation. You may reform how you mow your lawn but if you impose it on me, we will have a problem. I don't like your reformation and you are not right in my eyes. I have a free will that God gave me and if you think you are more powerful than my God, you don't deserve to stay above ground. that is the problem with the right. You decide something is now right and impose it on everyone. legal age in this nation is 18, 21 to drink. In England, a nation that has eons more civilized history than our baby government, it is 16. Are they 3rd world? Hell, they are over here buying up all the forelosed properties from our mismanaged financial fiasco. No, we need to govern here, from the center and leave other sovereign nations to themselves. If they threaten us, we should defend ourselves and brutally punish them so it never happens again, i.e. Japan, 1945.
LTMarc -
Still do not buy into your argument. I'm with you that we have many enemies but the Muslim extremist culture of killing all infidels is not something new...this is part of their ideology for 1400 years. Sure we pissed them off in the last 40 or 50 years and made them rabid but they are seriously a religion of hate based upon the extremist interpretation. Someone also mentioned the communist threat and how we always have someone out to get us - the Russians never killed 3000 innocent souls on the continent before. Warfare has changed and the defense of the continent has no choice but to adapt and overcome. We should have never stayed this long since the Taliban were driven out by early 2002 by a ragtag Northern alliance and Special forces. We handed the keys to the kingdom over to a corrupt SOB in Karzai and stayed for special interests [pipeline]. It sucks but the fact is NATO and the U.S. are in and will stay in until they leave on schedule. Leave behind some drones, a division of airborne to support the special ops and Afghan army and control the environment - preferably away from the villages.
I have a better idea -- let's pull out all of our troops, contractors, aid workers, material, and money -- let them live in the stone age where they seem most comfortable. As for Karzai -- let's see how long Karzai would last.... He would load up the biggest jet he could find with oodles of money and go to Switzerland....
abby- Sounds like a good plan to me. Although I still prefer to leave the one lowly Sergeant there for the Afghanis to do what they will!
Abby...right on! Well stated and I agree with you totally, get every American out of that corrupt, dirty, failed muslim country...let Karzai deal with his people....or rather them deal with him...Let them all rot!
An American soilder wigged out and killed 16 Afgan civilians--most of which were kids, WTF??? He should be shot, I don't care what he was "going through". He signed up.
Our troops need to come home, have needed to come home, want to come home. And the Afgan Prez is saying--go home.
It's enough already. Bring them home.
It looks to me that he went to the right house. Dad and teenage boy were out at 2 in the morning. Hmmm? What were they doing out that late? Planting flowers? Too bad he didn't get them too. That would have probably cut down on the IEDs in the area.
abby - Agreed. WTF is the Karzai "government" (or the mayor of Kabul) playing at? Don't they realize they will go the route of South Vietnam within weeks of us leaving?
It's like that crap South Korea tried to pull on us a few years ago with protests for US troops to get out. We were like, "OK, we can be out in a few weeks" and they were like "Woah, let's not be hasty! Nevermind."
This would be a great excersise to see how fast we can pack up and leave. Also my response to this jackass would be BYE! We won't be back!
abby--you are 100% correct! You sum up what needs to be done NOW!
Hey! What is so hard about knowing and realizing, that everybody in this world do not want to be like US? All the name calling has always been very American. Listening to so much of this talk, one would think Americans do not kill each another every day. Gang bangers killing gang bangers, and parents killing their children. Look in the mirror. Because we tried to kill all the native people for their land and resources, put US in the same basket as any so called primitive people. History can repeat itself, but this time we watch it on TV. Hey! leave people of this world alone. Those people overseas has read more of our history than most Americans, your talking will not change all that is yet to come. Smart and intelligent people figure out things for themselves, they do not have to leave their nation to exist. The Afgans are at home, we are the ones away from our own doors. Its our borders that are opened doors, not Afgan's.
MOSinEUR
I had the same thought but somebody told me there were adult males killed also. I thought I had read somewhere that he was assigned to special forces who were working to root out the Taliban in the area. I figured he went there on his own to execute suspected Taliban and when they were not home in the middle of the night he decided to kill their family instead. It might also explain how he managed to get off the base without anyone stopping him. I'm not saying what he did was right or justifiable, just wondering why someone would do what he did.Does anybody have a list of the victims and their ages?
I agree we should not only remove our troops from Afghanistan immediately, but also stop all monetary, military and humantarian aid. Let the stoneage people survive on wooly mammoths.
Cliff,they've survived that way for thousands of years.What you might view as a threat-taking away all monetary and military assistance-they probably see as a promise.Or at least a hope.
So in this day and age, you are willing to let fellow humans live in the 12th century and oppress those that do not want to live like animals? You guys are the kind that said that what Hitler did in Germany to the Jews and the millions the Japanese were killing in China were not our problem...until we were attacked and we entered World War II.
I guess that you guys only care about the price of gas.
Karzai sounds like he's on the side of the Taliban.
Maybe Afghanistan doesn't want to be a better place for it's people.
Maybe they like their mass murderings of each other. They've been doing it for many centuries.
The problem in Afganistan is nothing like Japan and China or Hitler and the Jews. It's the same race of people doing it to themselves because of the tribal mentality where everyone wants to be in charge, my way is better than your way, and violence is the only way they know how to achieve that goal. They have to be allowed to grow up on their own. There is nothing in Afganistan that is worth one more American life. They don't have any oil. There biggest cash crop and major export is heroin. WOW!! What a lovely country.
i agree,get out and let the mf kill each other, why should our boys and girls die,for someone who thinks we are low life scum because we are not of there f ing 10th cent. so called religion.
Afghans have a old order society and we are threatening that, it works like this
If your goat dies you kill your neighbor and take his goat.
If your crops fail you kill your neighbor and take his crops.
If you don't like the way your neighbor acts kill your neighbor.
If you have done all you want to do for the day and need to entertain yourself go kill your neighbor.
Only sisssies play soccer with a ball, real Afghans use their neighbors head.
If you haven't killed something by noon you wasted the day.
Torturing and mutilating a dog is the second greatest pastime, its only surpassed by killing infidels and that can be anyone who does not share your opinion.
Afghanistan has a old and tried system of tribal customs that work simple and well for them, its the way their ancestors lived and they don't want to change. they like the 10th century, and it solves the problem of their country ever being overpopulated, look how they reacted to the improper disposal of some Korans in comparison to the constant loss of life, they have little respect for life!
Because wolves know how to guard sheep best.
Translation: Just build new homes for terrorists and sympathizers and send more money, other than that we have no use for you.
What is it their government said just the other day...something like "no religion allows the killing of women and children"?
arguesforsport,
So you think that wolves can't guard sheep best? Perhaps you think that sheep guard sheep best? Think! Sheep are sheep for a reason. You can't change that reason just because you disagree with the laws of nature.
You picked up on all the points I did. They only want us to build them a better country and give them money. Their forces "currently have the ability to secure the villages around the country" but then a roadside bomb kills 13. We had one soldier (working alone) kills 16 including women & children and they threaten to kill all Americans. They kill 13 of their own (women & children) but that's okay as far as they're concerned. These people are NUTS!!! Get our troops out now!
A Sheppard with a big gun guards sheep best. Wolves would only guard sheep from other wolves until they eat the last one.
MJ, you noticed something that I found astonishing. Moslems believe that it is better to be killed by a fellow moslem than to be killed by a non believer. If a molsem kills another, it is bad, but an infadel killing a moslem is a tremendous crime and worthy of riots.
Bulid WHAT country??? the 1st church of karzai? the united ignoarnce of his brother in law? foke the money AINT goin to the people, any more than trickle downeconomics. The money goes in karzai's pocket and trickles down to his (male) relatives PERIOD. The rest is just rhetoric to make gullible americans believe in po haples afghanis.....dam I said bomb 2 villages for allah not 1! ooops did i say that out loud?
arguesforsport,
And you think the US should be the world's shepard? Hello, shepards to sheparding because they make their living off of sheep. The sheep don't get a voice or vote in what the shepard does for them. The cows don't get a voice or vote in what the cattlemen do for them. Chickens and pigs and fish don't get a voice in what we do with them.
So either the countries that we shepard because they're too ignorant and stupid to do it themselves behave like animals that need shepards, or they should stop expecting shepards to save them from themselves. Cultures should be insulted when they feel they need shepards from their own populations.
Oh and how do we make our living out of the countries we countinue to shepard? Wasn't Iraq supposed to pay us back with oil money? Vietnam? Korea?
Nice. You put words into my mouth then go on a rant over them. Why bother posting? You don't need me or anyone else, you seem to have perfected arguing with yourself.
afgan president wants us out over 13 deaths and condemns us but he doesnt condemn taliban on years of killing civilians and rapes it just so messed up how he quick to go after us but we shouldnt be there but i doubt obama will have will to withdraw us now. They dont want us there no more and still obama wont withdaw now
KrazyD111
I think it was 16 deaths (children included).
I wonder how many islamic honor killings were committed last year in Afghanistan of parents or villagers killing their own children because they disobeyed Allah? Eh, maybe none, because after all their kids weren't wearing western EMO clothes like the ones that Iraqii non-combatant civilians stoned to death last month.
Maybe Obama just wants to stay long enough in Afghanistan so he can bring as many western values and democratic virtues to Afghanistan as we brought to Iraq?
Hmm, we spend so much time telling ourselves that 'these people' just can't learn from their history so they remain as an unstable culture. Seems like we can't learn from history either. Wonder how stable we are as a result?
Obamas pledge to America was to find a exit from this hell hole, hes had a couple in the past 10 mths, I don't think he is calling the shots, I think the puppet master is. Afghanistan must have something someone wants. the question is what and who is the puppet master/ masters, and where do these puppet masters live? it makes no difference what gets a president elected once in office they follow the same agenda of serving the mysterious puppet masters, old money, old world=nwo, total nanny state, peasants to the slaughter. socialism control of the masses. is it the Federal reserve? the world bank? the 1% of the 1% just who is calling the shots and why? We were asked to leave we should leave, but not give them another cent.
D Buck
I'm betting it's the Skull&Bones boys that are pulling the strings.
Hasta la vista baby.
You got it! And a big "NO" to more reconstruction and financial aid. As a parting gift - a boat load of agent orange on their poppy fields.
Oh no: not another gormless Drudge troll. Sarah you might be a savage and are not aware of it.
You notice the story states, "13 civilians, including women and children, killed by a roadside bomb"... where's all the Afghan condemnation for that criminal act??? These people are such losers. Stop sending US dollars and fattening corrupt Karzai pockets.
I imagine their surviving family members and friends are condemning the act. But that is not newsworthy in the west.
Exactly, and who does Karzai and his fellow citizens think put those roadside bombs there? What the soldier did was wrong, but seriously the Taliban has killed so many more, including children.
And as others said, lets get out of there NOW, not in 2013, and no more aid in any form. I am just sorry for the women, who as usual will pay the price.
Father Guido
I beg to differ...
While it is true that even if theirs were large families; a protest by such a group would not likely make the News here...
I can also say with the up most of certainty that if they had uprisings on the scale of the ones they had for the accidental burning of the Koran; then they would most certainly make the news here.
Oott Rascals, we are a safe bet to protest as we do not kill them for protesting. The Taliban has no problem shooting up a funeral or hanging an 8 year old kid as an example not to question their authority.
Just get out, what the hell is wrong with all of them not just Obama, madman McCain all of them WE DON'T WANT TO BE THERE. I don't know a single person who knows the people, culture, religion, history etc that thinks it is a good idea for us to be there. State Department punks that hide behind fences, and gung ho sobs that just think we will make it another America and it will be OK are the ones that need to be left there, get the troops home and lets build this nation. Dumb asses can't even protect our own borders and they are over there!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they need to shoot people then do it to the dumb asses in DC and Wall Street. Those are the enemies of the state.
Pull out now let the Russians worry about their research developments with these savages they can wonder when the missiles will come their way they helped build. Build their missiles for protection from the anti missile defense system built to stop who the Russians helped get the technology from to begin with. Threaten to wipe out former allies over protecting Muslim fanatics. I wish them well in the world they are building around their country with fanatics I feel for the regular working man over there with a tough guy want to be in charge of their supposed defense slowly surrounding itself with nuclear weapons to a Religion that wants to use it on them.
@Melskid, you are in the wrong Country, this article is about Afghanistan not Iran. But that might be the reason we want to stay in Afghanistan so we can watch Irans back door.
So keep the big bases along the Iranian border...but definitely pull everything out of Kabul, and Karzi's government, ministry's etc. THAT includes all American mercenary's like Blackwater!
The Afghans collectively stating that the Americans can watch Iran from somewhere else. Americans are the ones who are constantly starting wars- not Iranians.
We are the dumbest country in the world! Of course they want our "reconstruction and financial support" aid. And we will give it....that's just how stupid we are. Never could figure out why we spend so much money around the world and never get anything back in return. Not even our loans paid back! I'm with Donald Trump on this. Although Afghanistan really doesn't have anything we would want. I say, get our guys out of there, now!
Lily's Mom
I kinda agree except that it's our government; most of whom have never worked a day in their lives... who keeps giving away our taxed incomes like there's no tomorrow.
Theirs is a puppet gov't installed by Bush in case you forgot.
I agree... with the announcement from Karzai Afghanistan's president
But no... there was no out pouring of respect from them when al-Qaeda was the perpetrator (remember 9-11?).
So no... we shouldn't be financing anything over there
And yes... we should hand over all the security responsibilities in 2013 instead of 2014
After all... as long as it's between themselves it's just peachy.
You forgot one tiny little thing, Money! The Pres over there wants us out , but oh just leave plenty of that cash for our day to day expenses and of course any old guns,tanks or armor cars you may not be taking home. Gee you can't use that old armor car, it has been use and we can sure use it here. We should leave and take every scrap of metal that is used over there. We can melt it down and make something here at home and put people back to work. It is a good lesson in recycling. Wonder how many buildings and ships we can make with all that metal.?
ER, the very FIRST thing we do is pull out all security for Mr. Karzi...and pull all UN & US security out of Kabul! then take all the money we spend there, and put it ....oh...here.
over the last week 16+13 = toooo many!!!
The best view of Afghanistan............is in the rear view mirror.
Totally agree gtouch!!! Best approach now is to rip off the rear view mirror and not look back. Just keep on driving until we get to civilization. Best post of the day IMO. Good job. Short and accurate!! Props.
Afghanistan is a farce. What are we there for again? tourism?
Learning how to lower our "carbon footprint".
probably not why we went to Afghanistan in the first place, but it's most likely why we're staying!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all
To drive al qaeda out of Afganistan, kill bin Laden and overthrow the taliban government....we have accomplished all three goals...time to get out all together...arming all the woman that will take and use a gun as we go! Turn bases over to the Afgan widows, and arm them too!
I rarely play devil's advocate, but here goes: So if the killings of the 16 innocents pushes an end to our involvement that much quicker..... How many civilians in Afghanistan die from combat action on a "routine" basis currently? It may be that this heinous act could result in the eventual saving of at least more coalition lives. I refuse to believe that our pulling out will do anything but increase violence against the innocent Afghan population.
What do we care what they do to each other? Our nation has its problems with innocents being killed by drunks, looney's, gangbangers and just plain stupidity etc.. No other nations are coming here to tell us how to run our country..
I say kill em all or leave em all to kill them selves. We will never when this war they have been fighting it between themselves since the beginning of time..
Father...Except that it didn't...The Taliban killed 13 of their own people. The actions of that soldier did nothing good. If they don't kill us, they will kill each other. That is all they know. War.
not a bad idea and lets see how they'll do on their own. if anyone then gets too feisty blast them with the entire arsenal!
Not one mention of the Afghans rising up to condemn this latest attack but by all means...cut your nose off to spite your face. Apparently they don't understand that the attack by our military man was of a rouge nature and that the minute we leave this country, the papers will be rife with headlines such as the one I posted here. The taliban condemns the attack by our soldier and they are probably the very ones responsible for the roadside bomb that killed 13. It's amazing how double standards work. Perhaps it is ok to kill your own kind, I don't know. Furthermore, why are we still entertaining "demands" from either the Afghan government or the taliban? I think that if we are not going to leave the country tomorrow that WE, as the controlling government, should impose our own demands. The first being, stop blowing innocent civilians up. Second, stand and fight like men, stop hiding behind innocent civilians. Third and last, complete and unequivical cooperation from the Afghan government...if you know where they are (and they do), tell us so we can get them, stop protecting them. It's just like Pakistan had NO idea that Bin Laden was next door. How in the world could you not know that? I have neighbors that I have never talked to but, I know who they are and I don't even work for the CIA! I'd apply for a position in the Afghan secret service but I'm over-qualified...I know how to use a computer to find out about people that may or may not be around me.
And they wonder what drives rouge soldiers to commit the crimes they commit (and for all of you that are interested, NO, I do NOT think it is right, killing is NEVER right, but SOMETIMES necessary).
I wish I could "like" this comment 100 times... Very well said.
"KILLING is never right but sometimes NECESSARY" Killing, yes. Murder of children while they sleep....Nope. Never right. Appears that they have no problem killing their own. It is just a problem when us "infidels" do it that is causes riots...What that man (I hesitate to call him a soldier because soldiers are my heroes) did was wrong...No matter what kind of spin you put on it, still wrong. What they did to the 13 civilians, just as wrong, but one does not justify the other. I understand your point, but am of the just leave the b@stards alone mentality. I am sure you agree, so no offense intended.
Our Foreign policies are self-destructive. We should not be occupying Iran or Afghanistan, nor should we allow the Federal Government to use our tax dollars to pay private mercenaries that are taking the place of our troops as we withdraw them...it actually costs more, but profiteers don't mind.
ALL military deployed overseas should be recalled. We need only to concentrate on a policies supporting National DEFENSE.
Can you believe this, '...we should only concentrate on reconstruction and financial aid.' In other words... expand Military Industrial Complex profits and give them their share. What balls!
Isn't it amazing! Get out but leave building materials and money. Basically, that is what Karzai said.
I have a better idea. How about we leave and leave NOTHING, especially our money, behind!
give the drug czar what he wants america is gone from the country if he thinks his troops can handle it go for it i dont think he will last more than a month or so before the taliban get him the russians left after 10 years so should we let this backwards country do what it wants as long as it does not attack our homeland or it interests if it does let our troops do what they have to do without restrictions
Let us do Mr. Karzai one better. 2012 sounds like an even better year to get us out.
What a bunch of BS. Past due time to leave. Troops should be pulling out this summer and the U.S. should not send Kasai another dime. It's a waste as far as the American tax payer is concerned.
Out out of touch politicians in America need to realize, things are only going to get worse in Afghanistan, it's a waste and not worth the sacrifice of borrowing money the U.S. doesn't have to perpetuate this fiasco.
The Taliban was crushed years ago and has sense regained strength and Bin Laden is dead. There is nothing more to gain here, no matter what the U.S. does it's not going to change the fact this is an Islamic Republic and can never be trusted, never. They hate western culture, get that through your thick sculls.
“The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
-Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI
What ELSE don't you know?
Y O U T U B E dot com/watch?v=LJyCAZGRpf8
Apparently, no one but a few US politicians want us there. Let's start solving the logistical puzzle and get out.
Soooo true. It sort of makes you wonder what they are getting out of it...Or maybe it doesn't.
Maybe, U.S.A. may consider monetary compensation to every single life that has been killed and wounded by the U.S.A. soldier. And the U.S.A. can also provid medical care to those got wounded by the soldier.
The US has given 80 billion dollars in non military aid to those AHOLES already. How much more do you propose we give?
They are getting the best medical treatment available on the planet. Don't tell me you weren't aware of that.
I want a second opinion or if you prefer, let me pull a Bill Clinton here and ask you: Define best medical treatment. For starters, you can have your opinion, but not your slogan peddling "facts" of what the "best medical treatment" is. The military health care has always been riped with incompetence and plenty of shenanigans. The cases are too many to list, but let me give you an idea by showing this that it should shut that lie prone mouth of yours and just in case, I'm talking about civilian doctors. Here it goes: ". Between 44,000 and 98,000 people die in hospitals annually each year due to preventable errors." Now, military care is worse, many times over, than civilian care. Using the ostrich defense to a real serious problem doesn't prove you right, but dead wrong. Lay off that Kool aid. You sound so much like a tea partier, but with a different color. I can tell you that as bad as civilian care care is, a major hospital infested with rats, bugs and falling down hasn't been found yet in a civilian setting. Actually, and let me quote you: "Don't tell me you weren't aware of our health care system, civilian, is number 37 in the world, next to Cuba. It's nice to try to appear "patriotic" or whatever you are trying to appear, but remember, the truth should set you free. Try it, you will like it.
Let's get the hell out of their and let the Chinese fight for the lithium.
there
@Susan1220, you're full of 5h1t.
Yeah Susan, I checked it out and its a funken scam. Plus your not suppose to be advertising on here.