I'm a liberal. I don't support the death penalty. If this guy did what he was accused of then I don't think we should kill him. There's a difference between that and the folks who say, "Well he had PTSD so he should get some treatment and be allowed to go back to his family" and the folks who say "Give him a medal."

I actually don't recall anyone saying "I'm against the death penalty but I have no problem executing him." Not saying no one ever said it, but I just don't see much of it at all.

I am a lib and opposed to the death penalty. didn't know this was about politics though. Next the right will bring Obama into this

I still say he may have killed the four men, but not the women and children. Face it, no one in the village fired at him? No guns in that village...in that part of Afghanistan? Bull...the Afghani Taliban slaughtered the woman and children! That's their style..."bonus, we get to blame the Americans". Village people had initially alleged that there was more than one shooter!

Why what a fascinating argument with so much supporting evidence! Sir, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Many of our brave men & women are in their 30s. Their entire adult life has been in or near combat situations.

And after all the sacrifice and money wasted, we are going to hand the keys back to the Taliban in two years when we leave.

Maybe we should drag Cheney, Wolfowitz, Kristol, and the other bloodthirsty neo-cons over there and leave them in a dirty alley somewhere in Kabul when we leave. Then they can see firsthand how that great "democracy" worked out for them.

Issues are never black and white, and name calling and labeling is counter productive. Don't we have enough of that already?

A good amount of people that are against the death because of the flaws in the judicial system, that happens to wrongfully convict people. Rightly so, many people have been exonerated due to DNA evidence after serving long prison terms. So, I doubt that the "liberals" are pro life as you're implying, or most would also be against pro choice..

Personally, I think the American soldier should be executed. If not only to save face for us, the whole world will be watching and the right message should be sent that we as a nation, of laws and principles can take the high road and truly punish murderers and terrorists for their actions, or we'll once again be seen as hypocrites. Or next time the taliban or any Arab for that matter kills innocent civilians over koran burnings, we can say "They were traumatized by the burnings, so the killings were justified".

MSNBC left out a vital part of the story. This Staff Sergeant suffered a traumatic brain injury on his third tour in Iraq. Four tours is hard enough on healthy, uninjured men and women. Yes, he probably snapped. He probably has chronic issues from his injury. The story said there is trouble at home. Duh! He's on his fourth tour and his wife probably hasn't seen much of him in a long time. He has children that he no doubt, misses!
It's time we leave the middle East and stop trying to build their countries in our image. Is Obama doing that? No. He's toying with the idea of interfering in Syria. He sent our troops to Libya, to intervene in their civil war. He sent our troops to Uganda as "Advisers", which is how we started out in Viet Nam.
He even sent our troops to Australia as a show force to the Chinese. Do his supporters say or do anything? No! They just march in lock step and follow him like sheep. Those of you who support him, are as much to blame for this incident in Afghanistan as the soldier is, in my opinion.
Now we have this soldier who should have stayed home after his injury, going off and killing civilians on his fourth tour, and all we can think about is how to punish him.
If you ask me, I think that's what we've been punishing him up to this point and by we, I mean our government. Bring our people home from Afghanistan, Uganda, Australia, Libya and let them sort their own problems out.

"MSNBC left out a vital part of the story. This Staff Sergeant suffered a traumatic brain injury on his third tour in Iraq."

Learn to read before you make accusations: "Browne said that the soldier had suffered a concussion and a serious foot injury during deployments to Iraq." That's from the story. A concussion is a "traumatic brain injury."

I say give him as complete an exam as Major Hassan has had and as good a defense. If Hassan can still not be tried 2 years after killing Texas civilians then this soldier deserves the same complete defense. The President did say he would treat Afghan civilians the same as American civilians didn't he. Well Texas is still waiting.

It never ceases to surprise me to see right wing nutjobs who are all for death penalty, suddenly do a U turn when one of the stressed-out-soldier "snaps" and kills 16 women and children from a third world country. What's the value of life for 10-20-100 or 100,000 uncivilized people for that matter (Sacracsm).

Is our military allowed to drink alcohol while in Afghanistan?

@ScottW714

Most of MSNBC's reporting is shoddy. Rachel Maddow is about the only reason I tune in anymore.

And yeah, I can't stand Constitution shredding, "nanny state", "wars are only ok if a Democrat President starts them" hypocritical Libs.

Why do you think we all come from Fox? Their coverage is even more pathetic than MSNBC.

I see a lot of right wingers on here pointing out almost ALL the Democrats supported invading Iraq. It's one helluva good point. The opposition party in any house should be an effective opposition, if they are not then trying to take the high ground after the fact makes them hypocrites.

What the hell is with you and bashing soldiers PJ, you cannot let it lye can you? I can see that you are using this story to discredit and disparage the military for all you are worth. Why you do us all a favor and keep your uneducated opinions to yourself about this subject. Any one that starts a sentence off with right wing nutjobs is heavily biased and will certainly never tell you anything of value.

I rememebr a SSgt that fell 16 foot off an aircraft scissor lift and landed on his head. About a month later, he went AWOL stating God was talking to him and lead him into the wilderness (he was found in the desert about a month later). The Air Force put him out with a dishonorable discharge - the head injury did not matter......

Thank you Ido for blessing us with one of your famous content-filled posts.

Oh, yeah, the American way: Take out your anger on the rest of the world.

The problem is witnessing and being a part of senseless killings due to a senseless war. PTSD is very real and difficult to erase from the forehead screen where the video will play for life. Panetta is wrong in alleging the death penalty for this case. If he snapped, and was drinking, it is because of temporary mental illness which will translate into permanent PTSD. The ones to blame here are cowardly politicians ready to send in someone else's son or daughter to die for no reason what so ever. There is absolutely NO REASON for the US to be there. The harboring terrorism spiel does not fly anymore. The Nation Building spiel does not fly anymore. We are there for economic and political interests, the military is being used, the American people being duped. GET OUT.

U.S. Soldier in Afghanistan Massacre Just Snapped, U.S. Official Says

DOH!!!!!!!!!!! YA THINK????????????

Four tours, traumatic brain injury and seeing death all around him for the past ten effing years and these "officials" are finally coming around to realizing that??

My gawd, W.T.F. Daffy Duck would have done a better job of running these wars!

US official: Soldier in Afghan killiings 'just snapped'

Ahhhh, just another day at the MSNDC office.

Yes, ido, damn MSNBC for quoting a U.S. official speaking to the New York Times.

The purported statement is hardly controversial. Nor is its veracity doubtful; does anybody believe a happy, emotionally balanced man would go and kill 16 men, women and children in cold blood?

This is going to be a very difficult case to deal with, both at home, and in Afghanistan. To find justice he U.S. Military is going to need to ignore the court marshal process from both the outrage of those demanding immediate death for the soldier, and those who feel post traumatic stress gives him immunity from prosecution, or worse, still, that no crime against Afghan citizens is worthy of punishment.

I want to see justice done. But I am willing to see the matter to be fully investigated before I assume anything. I am skeptical of any PTS-based defense. Unless the man was criminally insane, as in hearing voices, and seeing imaginary things , I would hold him fully culpable for his actions.

Why does this man even have a defense? The first reports on this story said that he confessed. He is responsible for his own actions. There is no justification for cold blooded murder. It's a war crime and he should be punished accordingly.

The soldier needs to have psychological care in an mental health institution and should remain there to serve his sentence instead of putting him to death imo.

It has been noted that he suffered a head injury on an earlier mission and this is his 4th deployment. Even if he was exhibiting signs of head trauma how would these folks in the military know anyway, when it seems that it is about sending these soldiers back without much down time.

After all these years of war it is inevitable that these soldiers are tired both physically and MENTALLY especially of war and the killings and being in a place where they know they always have to be on their guard no matter what, especially now that they are training soldiers that would not be in their best interest to trust, as we have seen these past year or so and especially the past month were the Afghanis trainee soldiers are turning on their trainers -the American soldiers etc- and killing them.

For how long can one sleep with one eye open, before one gets eyestrain and a massive headache, continuously on edge, stressed out, jumpy, and even fearful etc coupled with marital/family issues perhaps from the frequent continuous deployments, that never seem to end, to go to a place where you cannot trust your 'allies' or what ever these trainee soldiers are called?

It definately time for our soldiers to be brought home,- as their mission is completed i.e. OBL was terminated along with other alQuieda leaders and the group diminished, - because it seems that the thing our military etc seem to be doing is training a lot of these Afghan soldiers how to be better shots at shooting our trainers from the look of things. Trying to rebuild the infrastructure there does not make sense imo, because they did not have much of an infrastructure to begin with from the look of things, plus the people who need the help are out in the hinterlands and are not getting any of the help anyway as most of the monies seem to be going to those folks at the top/wealthy in that country. This country is tribal from the look of things and they have their ways that are different to our ways so the idea of forming a western style democracy there is just not going to happen. When the Afghan people get tired of being dominated by their country men/tribal leaders or what ever these folks are called in their own country, and want change then they will bring about change themselves from within. Also their idea of a democracy is will no doubt be different from our idea of democracy. These folks are perhaps more sophisticated(in their own way) and capitalistic than the we may realize or believe, or recognize.

Time to take ALL of our equipment including the weaponry and leave. The Afghan gov should have enough money by now, considering all the moneys they have been given all these years, to buy weapons from their neighbor Russia if they should need. And anyway aren't they in trade agreement or have a trade agreement with China regarding their minerals already? So what do they need our help for? Perhaps that is why Karzai want us out.. perhaps because as long as the US military is there they cannot get factories etc built or mining etc done and their wealth/rich citizenry living abroad for the duration cannot return home to Afghanistan to start living in those hugh mansions they have already built there and is now being rented out to those expats/contractors etc from the look of things.

Why aren't we protective of our own first- no matter what, - like other countries do for their own people, and rather seem to bend over backwards to show how fair we are or how we can beat up on our own just to be viewed in a good light by others especially by people who do not view us in a good light in the first place and even at the expense of our own, who some want to throw under a bus from the look of some of these messages?

Why is it that we rubbish our own in front of the world as if that makes us look better to the world, not realizing that that only make us look ignorant, stupid and no doubt untrustworthy to these other people?

There are those who rubbish/disrespect our POTUS in public/over the internet/media etc for doing his job, make disparaging comments about his leadership, education, birth, colour, religion, abilities, previous and early work -in the community as it was a bad thing,- speeches, stupid digs about using a teleprompter which every leader in the free world and beyond uses no doubt, rubbish him for doing what is necessary to calm volitile situations like a well place apology etc, and even go as far as to also rubbish the First Family, things that other countries do not do in public no matter what. Why? Considering the level of disrespect and lack of consideration that T'repcondino types and others etc level at the POTUS who is the leader of the free world, why is one not surprised at the way some posters are talking about or casually calling for putting this lowly soldier to death? As if that solves anything ....

Not saying that what the soldier did was right, but to be talking negatively about him -one of our own countrymen- who have sacrificed everything for our country before this unbelievably sad and disturbing incident and before all the facts are in, is not the thing to do imo. He has served his country well before now as far as we know, and have even sustained a head injury and was still sent back into a conflict/war zone.

What about the death of those folks in Iraq etc that was killed(?) by contractors.... where was the call for all the contractors to be put to death then?

Let the matter be investigated without bias or pressure to put him to death as quickly as possible to simply solve a problem or make the problem go away. One would think this soldier or these soldiers that do mess up deserve better than just being disposed of without care or thought imo. (perhaps these soldier(s) need to be placed in a psych institution for a full workup and observation etc instead of put in jail or imprisoned?)

Peace....... compassion.....

lonereb

I say give him as complete an exam as Major Hassan has had and as good a defense. If Hassan can still not be tried 2 years after killing Texas civilians then this soldier deserves the same complete defense. The President did say he would treat Afghan civilians the same as American civilians didn't he. Well Texas is still waiting.

The difference here is Major Hassan is a muslim….and Obama placates them.

The absolute best thing that could happen is that they prosecute the soldier in Afganistan. Let them do with what they want with him. Not in the states! And then pull the hell out of that hole. And on the way out just drop one big @!$%#ing bomb.

They say" he snapped " No s#!+, take him out before he snaps again, take that Hassan guy with him. I see they gave him a lawyer with a track record for not winning his cases. Bundy was Executed and the barefoot bandit is in jail. does anyone know of a big name case this lawyer Brown won?

@FedupwithFed

I couldn't agree more with you...absolutely 100% Odumbo does placate any and all Muslims. And as for putting this soldier to death I disagree, not because I'm against the death penalty but if Hasan can have 2+ years to put together his defence the soldier in this case should be able to have the same amount of time to mount his defence. Hopefully by the time he comes to trial, all soldiers will be home in the US and the barbarians will be left to their own devices. Phuck Karzai and his demands for more money and to build sh!t for them....they're stone-age cavemen and should be treated as such. screw Afghanistan and it's people and the US and everyone else should be out of there right away. I don't care about their women, men or children, they can rot for all I care. These savages want the Taliban back in charge, I say give them what they want, haven't seen a good be-heading in a while (sarcasm). I say pull out the troops, give this soldier a few years to put together his defence and then confine him to a mental hospital for the rest of his life but not the death penalty.

we have stretched our citizen soldiers to the breaking point, 4 tours, 10 years off and on in combat, wounded twice; he snapped, he is as much a victim of our failed policy as the Afghan people he killed.

#1.1 : Not so amazing than disgusting that so many conservatives go all out executing people convicted

(wrongly as well) of a murder, while their own Texan who planned and ordered the killings of so many, lives in mansions gloating about it

It is amazing...the number of liberals who convert to pro-death penalty, when they think they might get to execute an American Soldier...

It's almost as amazing as the number of conservatives who what let a murderer of 9 children and 7 adults just walk.

" Next the right will bring Obama into this"

"The difference here is Major Hassan is a muslim….and Obama placates them."

Wow, that happened in the first thread of this response. Who would have thought it? /sarc/

@Lynseypug

No, we are not allowed to drink while deployed.

However, finding alcohol in sector is not difficult.

Karzai accuses the US. That is funny, he is trying to make a deal with the Taliban, who are a group of men who use murder and violence to get their point across. If they don't like what you have to say, they kill you. Karzai is a joke. He has scammed millions of dollars from the US and then turns on us at every turn. He is going to allow the Taliban a place in the government, and when we finally do leave that hole, he will be killed by the same men he is trying to make peace with. Good luck.

If you have any common sense, the man that killed these people needs mental help. But Karzai and the Taliban want to make a show of this. The Taliban denounce these killings because a mentally ill US soldier got to them first.

The truth hurts huh Doc?

Riley, I have nothing against Army or Soldiers. I have nothing agains anybody - really.

However, it bothers me that 16 unarmed innocent lives were lost. Does it bother you?

I'm "liberal". I strongly support the death penalty (with massive improvements/overhaul of the current system). If anyone killed somebody I loved, I'd be the first one to cry out for their death. This guy deserves to die. His actions don't just affect him, they affect our entire country. The backlash from this could be deadly to our civilians as well. He needs to be turned over to the Afghan government to be punished as they see fit. Just as we would punish one of their soldiers if something similar happened here. If we ever hope to resolve issues in the middle east, it starts with something as simple as fair consequences.

If you allow the state to murder murderers, the state is then a (sanctioned) murderer.

"The truth My opinion hurts huh Doc?"

There, I fixed it for you.

If the shoe were on the other foot, we would snatch the purpetrator right up and have the trial here on our soil. It is a bully army that brings this soldier back to warm cozy America.

OK, there were extenuating circumstances. Nevertheless, isn't it the rightful place and duty of the Afganistanpeople to judge this soldier and to extend mercy to him, if they are so to choose?

Under these circumstances how could a single soul in Afganistan love America?

It's disgusting how many people are making excuses for a grown man murdering women and children in their sleep. Imagine if an Afghani soldier did this to US civilians, the hypocrisy is so blatant. I'm not pro-captial punishment but this guy definitely deserves to be locked up for life.

Oh and before people come in claiming that I shouldn't have an opinion because I have never been in the line of fire, guess what? I can and have formed an opinion. I don't care how many tours this guy served, you don't go murdering children. If you have that urge, please do us all a favor and get help or just off yourself instead.

"Browne told Lauer reports that the staff sergeant had been suffering marital problems were "absolutely not true" and "offensive," adding the soldier has "a very strong and loving relationship with his wife.""

yet he had no problem mercilessly slaughtering someone else's family(s), I wonder how much he truly understood bonds of love and kinship. hmmmm I love how some d-bag in this thread said that he (this murderer) didn't kill the women and children and that he only killed the men while suggesting that it was the Taliban who killed the women and children...WOOOOOOOW delusional much? You "patriotic" jar-head a-holes are so high on “patriotic” fumes that at this point if this guy came and shot your child or wife in front of you in the coldblood you will blame the taliban. You are pathetic. If this is too farfetched for you to believe then you forgetful m***** f****rs might have also forgot the marines who raped a 14 year old Iraqi girl after killing her family in front her and then burned her body. Yea, that must have been the taliban as well right? You self centered dim witted F***s. This murderer "snapped" sneaked out, slaughtered entire families in their homes came back, surrendered, said "I did it” and then asked for a lawyer. This seems like a person who premeditated this and was in control of his self throughout the ordeal. He is nothing more than spoiled blood thirsty brat like many in this nation have become. He knew his fellow patriots will bring up every single excuse in his defense; he knew we would not hand him to the Afghan Government, while we have taken citizens from all over the world and held them for over ten years at some remote prison without even the decency of trying them or giving them back to their countries. We have become accustomed to calling any culture/group other than ours savages and we degrade them daily in our houses, churches and on national media. Given all this I am not surprised in the least that this guy did this. These soldiers essentially look at Afghan (or any non-white-western European nation) people as animals, so they kill them for sport and take trophies then urinate on the dead bodies. What else is needed here to prove my point? We have become a nation of hypocrites of the highest degree.

Every time a soldier or a group of soldiers does something like this, which is very frequently, we exhaust every old excuse in their defense and if we can’t find one we invent some new ones, most commonly we use PTSD. And it is very likely that many of our soldiers are suffering from this. We say these guys have done three, four tours of the war zone (DO NOT FORGET THAT THEY VOLUNTEERED and they get paid to do it) therefore they are blameless. Yet when the Iraqis and Afghan people, who have been in the war zone not for one, two or three tours but this entire time, flip out and kill American soldiers or attack an American embassy we immediately blame this on them being savages and animals and the usual Islam bashing ensues, never taking in to account that perhaps they snapped as well that perhaps they have PTSD from this ongoing seemingly endless tour to the war zone, for which they neither volunteered nor understand why it is still going on. What would people say if this man who lost his family at the hands of this US soldier snap and loose it and avenge the wrongful slaughter of his family? What if any member of his extended family did so? Would they still be savages, animals will their religion or culture still be the culprit? Essentially what I am saying is that we have become a nation of "our doodoo don't stink"....

@Son-Of-Anubis more like son-of-A B... you senseless POS, I hope you and your family suffer what you wish upon others. The soldier who killed these people most likely used the same exact rationale as you, "because they are cavemen its ok to kill them". So case proven!, it wasn't PTSD, brain injury or domestic problems, it was a superiority complex and years of brain washing and propaganda, face it there isn't much difference between you and the taliban. Afghans or in fact actual cavemen were less of cavemen than dum phucks like you. You are stain on America, I support the death penalty for morons like you.

I see a lot of right wingers on here pointing out almost ALL the Democrats supported invading Iraq. It's one helluva good point.

Just another lie perpetrated by the right...the actual votes:

US House
Party .............Ayes...... Nays..... PRES.......... No Vote
Republican ......215 .........6 .......... 0............ 2
Democratic ........82 ......126.......... 0............ 1
Independent ...... 0.......... 1.......... 0............ 0
TOTALS.............297...... 133...........0............ 3

US Senate
Party...............Ayes......Nays No Vote
Republican........ 48..........1........0
Democratic..........29.......21........0
Independent........0..........1........0
TOTALS...............77........23........0

As you can see, more Democrats voted against the war. But that's not a stat you find on Fox and Friends.

The way the military treats its soldiers! Give me a break! The military treats many of its soldiers roughly, it has to - they are in a war zone, yet they don't go around murdering civilians in their beds.

Should we use the same defense for every terrorist in Guatanamo? Most of them have murdered fewer civilians than this guy. So it's OK to go around killing innocent people if you have PTSD?

The vast majority of soldiers don't kill civilians, despite the hardship they suffer. The vast majority of Afghanis and Iraqis do not become terrorists, despite having to live in a war zone.

Even most people with PTSD, though seriously disturbed, and in need of serious help, are not mass murderers.

In case you need a refresher, here's the list of Democrats who voted to go to war in Iraq…

Yes to Disarming Iraq
29 Democrats joined 48 Republicans to pass a Senate resolution on October 11 authorizing President Bush to use military force, if necessary, to disarm Iraq:

Max Baucus (Mont.)
Evan Bayh (Ind.)
Joe Biden (Del.)
John Breaux (La.)
Maria Cantwell (Wash.)
Jean Carnahan (Mo.)
Tom Carper (Del.)
Max Cleland (Ga.)
Hillary Clinton (N.Y.)
Tom Daschle (S.D.)
Christopher Dodd (Conn.)
Byron Dorgan (N.D.)
John Edwards (N.C.)
Dianne Feinstein (Calif.)
Tom Harkin (Iowa)
Fritz Hollings (S.C.)
Tim Johnson (S.D.)
John Kerry (Mass.)
Herb Kohl (Wis.)
Mary Landrieu (La.)
Joe Lieberman (Conn.)
Blanche Lincoln (Ark.)
Zell Miller (Ga.)
Ben Nelson (Neb.)
Bill Nelson (Fla.)
Harry Reid (Nev.)
John Rockefeller (W.Va.)
Charles Schumer (N.Y.)
Bob Torricelli (N.J.)

Big Surprise to many here that Hillary is on the list, huh? These are some of the men and women that helped give Bush the ok. Yet it's Bush's fault? Takes more than just the President. Think about it!

I'm getting tired of hearing how many deployments this guy had. Ask a WWII vet what he thinks about that. They had a job to do, they went and didn't come home until it was done. No trips home to the wife and kids, no nice long distance Internet conversations, nothing. They did what they had to do and they didn't whine about it either. I'll bet plenty of them had ptsd as well and I think they witnessed plenty of bloodshed and more of their fair share of atrocities. What about the men who first discovered the camps in Germany and the men who endured imprisonment at the hands of the Japanese? I appreciate our fighting men and women and what they do for us but come on folks, let's not make excuses for this kind of horrible crime. Did John McCain come home and kill a bunch of innocent people? I admire his service and I'm a libbie Democrat.

I'm a liberal and I support the death penalty. I also don't support gun control.

I also don't support rich people making laws that help them and hurt the poor.

Why not let the case be investigated instead of trying to be armchair executioner.

What if the soldier had indeed shot up the place killing some people but then some anti- American or anti-foreigner/ anti-foreign forces in their country people in the villagers etc or tribal or religious leader had the others killed or executed then burned the bodies of women and children to make what that soldier did look worse and to bring about the condemnation against that is being stirred up now?

Can the villagers prove that they or others they my know did not kill some of the victims themselves? How was it possible for the soldier to also gather the bodies of these women and children and set them alight without the men not rushing him and subdueing him? Thought I heard on a news program that the women and children's bodies were brought together and set alight if I remember correctly.

To pretend that villagers do not have weapons hidden somewhere or can get hands on some, would be being blind imo. Isn't this a country where they still stone women and children, or disfigure girls for getting an education or for the mirads of other religious reasons etc. What about the locals or other Afghan trainees that have either killed foreign soldiers or others helping in the rebuilding of their infrastructure or allowed others to gain entry to do these killings etc? Have they been tried and put to death yet?

Not saying that 2 wrongs make a right or to excuse what the soldier may have stated that he alledgedly did, it it simply that it is time to let the investigation go forward and instead of tossing our own under the bus or hand him over for hanging/stoning or beheading we need to not rush to judgement.

Per our laws the person is innocent until proven guilty- even if he confessed to the crime, because the person who confessed to the crime may not have done it. So yet again... let the investigation and the trial go forward instead of spewing forth of the usual and sundry vicious ignorant crap passing for rational thought.

By the way all that ignorant 'let's string him up and hang him out to dry' talk regarding the soldier, does not make our presence in Afghanistan any more appealling or tolerated by the Afghanis or the Afghani leaders whether head of state, tribal or religious etc who are now flushed in the pockets, weaponed up to the gills paid for by the US tax payors (including by the accused) and now want us gone from their lands. Rather it only serves to show that we do not care about anyone or anything except our image and are not to be trusted because if we would do that to one of our own what would we do to them who is not even one of us imo.

Peace..... think....

plb618-- Afghan soldiers have been switching sides and working for the Taliban to kill our troops. I guess you support that. I guess you support the enemy. What happened is tragic. But if you read the article closely, you find out that he had no conduct issues in the past. Since you haven't had any front line experience, let me tell you, it is hard to understand the concept of someone strapping a bomb to a mentally handicapped 14 year old, who can not understand what is going on. Yeah, the people you support do this constantly. This soldier did snap, and if you don't know what it is like, you should do more research to educate your ideas.

I think he should be tried but here. Not there. It is a show, the Taliban only want to cut his head off on public tv so they look like the good guys, yet they are responsible for more civilian deaths than the US.

Obviously, the SSgt.'t talents were so rare and special that the clinical evaluation had to be perverted to send a man with PTSD into a combat zone. His doctors were blessed with presence and knew that what happened would never happen because there was no hard science that said it would. A PhD can be an awesome thing. In both the Army and the VA, they are blessed with the power of life and death over veterans and soldiers.

Here comes the excuses. Obviously, the Afghans lives are worth nothing.

Yeah, winning the hearts and minds shouldn't mean firing bullets into them point blank while they are sleeping.

There is no way we are 'winning' in Afghanistan.

Should send Congress over there and let them sit in a trench for a week under heavy sniper fire.

"Sacracsm" - is that "holy sarcasm"? :)

Look you hypocrites, it is very tough seeing what a soldier sees. Who are we to judge his mental state. The Afghan's lives really must be worth nothing. They seemed perfectly happy to have public executions at the soccer stadiums for all sorts of reasons, including educating women. When you are constantly around people with that level of ignorance, I am sure that it will effect some in bad ways. What he did was wrong, but who knows what his mental state was. It clearly is not the same thing as killing multiple people back here.

Honestly, if the lives of Afghan women and children were so valuable, then why don't they view them as such? They are treated like property. When a whole group has that poor level of respect for their own women, then I can see how some soldier can go a little mad dealing with all that stupidity

"Just snapped" how do they expect people to know this technical medical jargon? I guess I was wrong assuming he had "gone koo koo"

So then he should just get some psychotherapy and a jar of zoloft and he'll be just fine.

Now that you're all done trying, ruling on and deciding this soldiers fate, how about considering that this was not only his fourth tour of duty, but that he sustained a traumatic brain injury in Iraq, during his third tour. He's a Staff Sergeant with a wife and children at home, where the story reports there are problems. No kidding! His wife and kids are probably having trouble remembering what he looks like when he's been gone this long! He was drinking, yes. Four tours of duty, severe head injury, marital problems and in the middle of Afghanistan, fighting yet another war. What are the responses I read here? Execute him, throw him helpless to the Afghanis, stand him up to a wall and shoot him. It seems everyone wants to punish him. I think he's been getting punished by even being over there.
Why is there no outrage on the left, over all these conflicts we're involved in? We have troops in Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and even Australia. There are still troops in Croatia. Obama is still considering sending troops into Syria and there's rumors we've sent troops to Israel. When will the left stop marching in lockstep like sheep for this man?
Let's bow out of these civil wars and stop advising Sudan and just bring our people home while there's still something left of them. Let's let these rag-tag countries sort their own problems out.

If this guy gets the death sentence then that guy who killed our military in Fort Hood better get the death sentence too. Funny how you never hear about him anymore. And I think he Killed 12 Americans (women included). And over 30 more were injured. Here's part of the msn article just in case we've all forgotten. It happened in 2009. Bring our soldiers home. Why should they risk their lives just to go unappreciated and forgotten about and turned on by their own.

An Army psychiatrist who opened fire at Fort Hood, Texas, killing 12 people and wounding 31 others, was shot but captured alive, military officials said late Thursday.

The gunman, identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was wounded at the scene but was captured alive and was in stable condition, Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone, commanding general of the Army’s III Corps, said at a press conference late Thursday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/gunman-kills-wounds-fort-hood/

Here comes the excuses. Obviously, the Afghans lives are worth nothing.

Just about the same as yours.

so...when did we go to war with the Taliban??? and who wanted to go to war with Iraq over WMD that weren't there?? Look in the mirror.... 75-80% of America wanted to go to war with Iraq over trumped up charges. this is an absolute truth... as a country we took on the Taliban in Afghanistan... and we went to 2 wars UN-FUNDED... another truth.. and we sent our men and woman again and again into war... a long drawn out war... a war that has no end in sight.... and it's best outcome is a Pyrrhic victory.

these wars have been fought at too great a cost. too much spent....too many lives lost.....and not just on foreign lands... but a lot as been lost here at home.... how may girlfriends or wives of soldiers been killed or homes have been wrecked for PTSD... families been pulled apart by absent spouses. And among Americans.... relationships torn apart because either a "republitard" or "an American hating Liberal"....these have cut deep into the body of America...and have festered for a decade now...and this infection is getting worse.

Now as it pertains to this poor soul... I have no doubt that he suffered a psychotic break.... and has been through a lot.... he does have to answer for his individual decisions as we all do. The talk of death penalty is just talk, a political smokescreen because of all the international attention. I believe this man with face a long jail term to life in prison.

Some of the hardest things to do in life is to tell someone that you love.... what they did is wrong and must face judgement for what they did... You are loved and have family and friends who stand with you as you accept responsibility for actions taken...

This makes me sick. It is a no win situation for everyone...the soldier, his family, the Afghanis, and none of this should be happening. What do we expect when we send people through 4 tours of duty? A sane person? And does that excuse what he did? No. There are no winners in war, there are nothing but scarred people who fight them, innocent victims who die as collateral damage or because someone goes crazy, and the innocent victims who live with a shadow of the person they thought they knew when they come home. If you don't think that these people who fight for us come back with issues, you are kidding yourselves. Is this what we want? Enough with war, with killing, we are our own worst enemy. We create nothing good when we fight others. It is nothing more than destructive power that hurts everyone involved.

When will the left stop marching in lockstep like sheep for this man?

Maybe you should pay more attention. People on both sides and in the center are saying get out of Afghanistan, stay out of Syria, stay out of Iran, and let Israel handle its own problems. America is tired of war, tired of the Middle East, and hopefully getting really sick of being divided by labels.

Between the belief that ending DADT would lead to mass sexual misconduct in the ranks and the belief that serving several tours of duty justifies what was essentially a slaughter of innocent people, it would seem to me that the "patriots" on this vine expects almost nothing in the way of restraint for our men and women in uniform.

Honestly, if the lives of Afghan women and children were so valuable, then why don't they view them as such? They are treated like property. When a whole group has that poor level of respect for their own women, then I can see how some soldier can go a little mad dealing with all that stupidity

Is it possible to make a more reprehensible statement? Suppose what you say is true (a big supposition)? The point is our values, the way we treat women and children. Which is actually an open question, when one considers the rate of child poverty in the US and the recent spate of shaming laws.

Oh, yeah, the American way: Take out your anger on the rest of the world.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be surrounded by death everyday. I could not imagine watching people being blown apart in front of me. I am not surprised that this happened. I am surprised that it does not happen more. I commend all the troops that keep it together in a horrible situation. It's time to come home.

If this guy gets the death sentence then that guy who killed our military in Fort Hood better get the death sentence too. Funny how you never hear about him anymore. And I think he Killed 12 Americans (women included). And over 30 more were injured. Here's part of the msn article just in case we've all forgotten. It happened in 2009.

Agreed. And IF this Staff Sargent gets the death penalty, SO SHOULD EVERYONE IN CHARGE WHO PUT HIM THERE.

There is NO EXCUSE for killing INNOCENT people nine of which were SLEEPING CHILDREN!! YOU made the choice to drink, you acted on the alcohol, now YOU and sadly ANOTHER INNOCENT in the future will have to pay the consequence

You can always recognize those that HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE LINE OF FIRE...And love to make "humanitarian"speeches. Try to say that after 4 tours in that shi****hlOLE, and see if you think the same.It is not the same as when a jealous husband goes on a killing rampage.

TRY TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN YOUR MIND.

It is pretty obvious that this guy just lost it. I find it disturbing that this is yet another soldier from Joint Base Lewis-McChord that has been involved in criminal acts. There is something seriously wrong at that base and with the medical staff that is screening these soldiers for PTSD, TBIs, and other psychological problems. I do not know whether it is an incompetent medical staff and clueless command structure or if the medical staff is being pressured by the command not to make the diagnoses. All I know is that they are apparently clearing quite a few soldiers for additional combat deployments who may not be fit. In either case, the leadership at that base and the medical staff need to be cleaned out and replaced with some competent people willing to do their jobs properly.

Unfortunately, I think that politics will come into play and this soldier will not be allowed to present a defense of temporary insanity or diminished mental capacity. Anything short of a death sentence will cause too many problems for the administration. There have already been statements made that they are planning on seeking the death penalty in this case. This is being done to appease the Afghani government and people. I feel that this is one case where the outcome of the court martial is a foregone conclusion. Despite strict regulations to try and prevent it, I think that there is going to be considerable undue command influence all the way from the Commander in Chief on down to find this staff sergeant guilty and sentence him to death. I am in no way defending what this soldier did, I am just very concerned that he is not going to receive a fair trial. There are medical records showing that he suffered a TBI in a vehicle accident but the medical staff at Lewis-McChord is already circling the wagons saying there was no permanent injury and that he was fine and fit to be deployed. Having had experience dealing with someone who was close to me ho suffered a TBI, I can tell you that they can appear fine in some situations, with the problems only coming out under certain conditions, particularly when under stress. I am not a doctor and have not seen this soldier's medical records, I just hope that he gets a fair trial and that incompetent doctors trying to cover their asses do not help railroad this guy into a lethal injection. If he was competent and truly fit for duty, then he does deserve the death penalty for what he did. I just want to see him get a fair trial.

Irespond, I 100% agree!

DM7741

This makes me sick. It is a no win situation for everyone...the soldier, his family, the Afghanis, and none of this should be happening. What do we expect when we send people through 4 tours of duty? A sane person? And does that excuse what he did? No. There are no winners in war, there are nothing but scarred people who fight them, innocent victims who die as collateral damage or because someone goes crazy, and the innocent victims who live with a shadow of the person they thought they knew when they come home. If you don't think that these people who fight for us come back with issues, you are kidding yourselves. Is this what we want? Enough with war, with killing, we are our own worst enemy. We create nothing good when we fight others. It is nothing more than destructive power that hurts everyone involved.

Amen to that.

IRESPOND - Sorry, but the code of military justice does not support such a difference. If the full investigation of the facts justify it, and if it were my decision, I would probably forgo the death penalty due to the extenuating circumstances of extreme stress. But justice has to be served.

Unless the man is out and out insane, as in having a psychotic break, not a totally understandable, emotional breakdown, he is fully culpable for his actions. If he is not criminally insane, at a minimum, he deserves to spend the rest of his life in a military prison.

No, he didn't "snap". He planned, snuck out in the middle of the night, murdered 16 people, snuck back in, then tried to pretend he didn't commit these acts of atrocity. He was fully aware of his actions. Evil knows no bounds, and being a "soldier" doesn't make him or his acts any less evil. I'm sure he'll end up being found not to be responsible for his actions. But he should face a firing squad.

The official said that "the Kuwaitis blew a gasket and wanted him out of there.”

We gave them their country back. The only thing I want to hear out of Kuwait is "Yes Sir" "Anything else I can help you with sir?"

This is the reason that the government in Afganistan wanted him tried there because they knew they would never receive justice for those killed if this guy was tried in the U.S. and they were right. That's okay though because the Taliban says that they'll seek and find justice for those killed. Go USA.

Poor guy, I feel so sorry for him and his family, and of coarse those innocent people. Sleeping children, that's just so tragic.

If he is not criminally insane, at a minimum, he deserves to spend the rest of his life in a military prison.

And if he is criminally insane, then he should also spend the rest of his natural life in prison. Would you want this mass murderer living in your neighborhood?

Where does it say in this article that he was drunk? You paint him up to look like this evil character without getting your facts straight. This soldier did FOUR tours of duty and even was being set up for yet another tour in Afghanistan overnight. He also had a brain injury from one of his prior tours and yet the military still insisted on deploying him- he snapped, yes, he lost it. No, nothing excuses what he did but stop making such snap judgements without knowing all the facts first- thankfully you don't get to be judge, jury & executioner. Wait until all facts are known then make a more informed comment.

Sorry, deminished capacity is no excuse for a soldier murdering innocent civilians in the night. It's too bad that his chain of command lied to him regarding his deployment status. Anyone wearing the uniform is subject to being deployed anywhere at anytime according to the needs of the service. The only exceptin is sole surviving son status--the government will not deliberately wipe out a family line. The soldier should be tried in a Court Martial and when convicted given the sentence appropriate to the heinous nature of the crime. Mitigation--I do not think so! Death would be appropriate.

Anyone wearing the uniform is subject to being deployed anywhere at anytime according to the needs of the service. The only exceptin is sole surviving son status

Applies in Peacetime only, not during a war. Common misconception though.

This is sick. people collapsing comments that they don't agree with. It takes a special breed of self centered people to support this monster.

Now they are talking about PTST. What next? Is he going to say he killed them to save them? Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

No, nothing excuses what he did but stop making such snap judgements without knowing all the facts first- thankfully you don't get to be judge, jury & executioner. Wait until all facts are known then make a more informed comment.

In all honesty, I really don't care what the facts were other than if he actually murdered those 16 people in the middle of the night, then that is all I really need to know. He is a monster and a tragedy waiting to happen back here at home should they release him back into population. Anyone that commits a crime to the extent this person did deserves exactly what Jeffery Dahmer got. No less.

Let the typical "its not my fault" continue...

1. I cant pay my mortgage = Banks screwed me.
2. I killed people = I have lots of stress

Jasmine

Your blood lust is up isn't it? What this soldier did was wrong, no doubt, but finding out why and how he came to this point is just as important as the lives taken. Or do you want multiple repeats of this offense? You speak of this soldier as an animal, a monster, without knowing anything about the man except that he is thirty eight, been in the military 12 years, and has a family of his own. Three combat tours in Iraq, injured in combat, and sent to Afghanistan for a fourth combat tour is a lot to ask of any man, or woman! The horrors seen in combat can and will twist a person's perception of reality, they will make people angry and foolish, and they will drive some out of their minds. Take a look back at other wars for statistics on cowardice and battle fatigue and compare them against PTSD numbers from Iraq and Afghanistan, I think you'll see nothing new in the trend except the way the soldiers are treated today. He did something horribly wrong, for reasons we do not yet understand. He will be tried and punished for his crime, but if he is someone who just snapped from stress, the punishment he is putting himself through is probably far more severe than anything we can do to him even if he gets the death penalty for his crimes.

@Hellohowareyou and Dan-299885: Go screw your selves! Why the hell would you say human lives mean nothing?! And on a public site at that! those women and children's lives may mean nothing to their husbands and fathers BUT it means something to us, the american people!

@Lucy1: That man is never forgotten for what he did. I highly doubt anyone will forget.

Look in the mirror.... 75-80% of America wanted to go to war with Iraq over trumped up charges.

I think that number is a bit high. It's more like 55-60 or whatever the number of fools that voted to re-elect dubya for a second term.

Chris from Yucaipa

Anyone wearing the uniform is subject to being deployed anywhere at anytime according to the needs of the service. The only exceptin is sole surviving son status

Applies in Peacetime only, not during a war. Common misconception though

It applies all the time. And, if they apply for this status, they are allowed to be discharged.

Ryan in Wi.

Your rash statements tell me you have never served in the military let alone a combat operation. We do expect restraint from our men and women, but if you had spent time in the military you would understand the concerns over these matters. Times and attitudes change, and so do the establishments which experience them. It is easy to sit back in the safety of your dorm or your home in the states and make glib comments about things you know little about, and it is soldiers like the one in question that maintain and provide you the opportunity to do so. Don't you think they deserve a little more consideration than what is being shown here by many? Those nasty rightwingers that wanted to keep DADT had reasons. Their main reason was morale of our service people. DADT is now history, yet that doesn't mean that everyone is completely happy or comfortable with the decision. It also doesn't mean that there won't be instances of hate related beatings, sexual misconduct, or any of the other problems that were used as arguments against its repeal. It has gone better than many hoped showing that our soldiers are not troglodytes many feared. People are people whether left or right and are capable of being right and wrong so just let it be.

There is an intriguing irony that the Afghanistan outrage (justifiably, for sure) over the heinous murders of innocent mothers and children contrasts with the cultural habits of beating or killing women who venture in public, even in burkas, without chaperones - for whatever reason. I reference the story of a mother who carried her critically ill child out of the house to a doctor and did so unchaperoned because no related men were available. She was shot by a conservative zealot. Where do the Afghans stand on right and wrong? It's confusing.

mikela

And just what did Jeffery Dahmer get? Do you remember? Try life in prison under psychiatric care. It was another inmate that brought his life to an end. You know nothing of this man, what his motivations were, or any of the factual circumstances surrounding this crime, how can you judge? It is different to make a judgement based on the facts in evidence that a jury sees, but to try a man in the media is wrong. We have a legal system for that and I'm sure that it will find the right results. Also, given the nature of the crime, I am sure that the international community will want to try him for war crimes as well. There will be plenty of diverse people looking at this case for some time to come. Justice, will be served.

Defend one's own, no matter right or wrong? Guess the rest of the world is sh!t out of luck.

mimgml

The Afghan government stands where ever it can to distance itself from the US. The outrage is designed to make it look as if it is not a US puppet. The media covers this as a means to an end, namely getting troops out of Afghanistan, not because they care, but because the arguments over it sell advertising space and circulation.

IRESPOND-2315268

There is NO EXCUSE for killing INNOCENT people nine of which were SLEEPING CHILDREN!! YOU made the choice to drink, you acted on the alcohol, now YOU and sadly ANOTHER INNOCENT in the future will have to pay the consequence

You can always recognize those that HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE LINE OF FIRE...And love to make "humanitarian"speeches. Try to say that after 4 tours in that shi****hlOLE, and see if you think the same.It is not the same as when a jealous husband goes on a killing rampage.

TRY TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN YOUR MIND.

Of course no one who is a civilian would understand 4 tours of duty...they didn't sign up for the military because of what it asks of you. Either time, commitment, freedoms, etc. the military asks alot and puts people through tough times in peace and hell in war.

That being said, the article states he put in 4 tours of duty. I personally know 3 different individuals who have done 4 tours of duty in these wars. Of these individuals, none of them have clinical PTSD, all of them were in the line of fire, 2 had friends killed/maimed in front of them and all 3 were married before their first deployment. All of them have RE-ENLISTED after their 4th tour. Either this individual chose to be in the military during wartime or re-enlisted during wartime, I have a lot of respect for soldiers but he CHOSE that stress.

A person from the projects or a third world country (like Sudan) who comes to this country and goes on a killing spree would not be shown sympathy for their hard times.

mikela- spoken like a true Darwin Award candidate

If this guy gets the death sentence then that guy who killed our military in Fort Hood better get the death sentence too

Why is this any way related to fort hood? For the recornd he too should get the death penalty however one has nothing to do with the other.

Our country has become so arrogant and self-aggrandizing as we feed our faces with junk food and watch our children go to 'pot' while they sit their arses down on the couch and spend hours with their friend the 'video game' that we have lost sight of the consequences of our actions.

We, in this country, made a big deal about a Muslim man at Fort Hood killing our people, even about the 9/11 killers, AS WE SHOULD! Now we wonder why they want this man? It is the hypocrisy, the sheer "We are a democracy! - now do what we say or we will invade you!" bull-crap that puts other coutries in a frenzy of hate against us. We even burn their beloved Koran, the book of people willing to blow themselves up for their beliefs. How incredibly dumb dumb dumb to infinity is that? Maybe to the point of infinite arrogance?

We need to start being very afraid - afraid because other countries are definitely seeing our government for what it is. And, if they read any of these boards and see how crass the American people can be, well...

We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Just sayin' ...

archangel 3:16

mikela

And just what did Jeffery Dahmer get? Do you remember?

383 year sentence. A mockery to the 17 families he victimized.

truesaid

mikela- spoken like a true Darwin Award candidate

Call me anything you want but in my opinion, anyone that commits mass murder and especially in this case where a man broke in homes and shot and killed babies and little children along with their family members is a monster and deserves to be treated like the monsters they are.

Now that you're all done trying, ruling on and deciding this soldiers fate, how about considering that this was not only his fourth tour of duty, but that he sustained a traumatic brain injury in Iraq, during his third tour. He's a Staff Sergeant with a wife and children at home, where the story reports there are problems. No kidding! His wife and kids are probably having trouble remembering what he looks like when he's been gone this long! He was drinking, yes. Four tours of duty, severe head injury, marital problems and in the middle of Afghanistan, fighting yet another war. What are the responses I read here? Execute him, throw him helpless to the Afghanis, stand him up to a wall and shoot him. It seems everyone wants to punish him. I think he's been getting punished by even being over there.
Why is there no outrage on the left, over all these conflicts we're involved in? We have troops in Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and even Australia. There are still troops in Croatia. Obama is still considering sending troops into Syria and there's rumors we've sent troops to Israel. When will the left stop marching in lockstep like sheep for this man?
Let's bow out of these civil wars and stop advising Sudan and just bring our people home while there's still something left of them. Let's let these rag-tag countries sort their own problems out.

No sympathy. Sorry, but none whatsoever. No one forced him to join the army. It's not easy to get out once you're in, but it's certainly possible. If he was having problems, there are plenty of people--psychiatrists, chaplains, etc--that he could have gone to. I have three brothers in various branches of the military--all of whom have had multiple tours of duty, and have at one time or another needed some kind of help and readily received it. I know it's not easy, on the soldier or the family, but PTSD is a LAME ASS EXCUSE for what he did, nothing more.

"Just snapped"? Sorry, I don't care how much pressure you're under, your actions have devastating consequences for EVERYBODY, both in Afghanistan and the United States and for anyone involved. He knew full well what he was doing and what he was signing up for. Should have just taken a rifle to his own head instead.

Regardless, he needs to be tried in Afghan courts as they see fit. You know if an Afghan soldier came to the US and did the same thing, he'd never be let outside of our "justice" system.

YeahImthatguy- "Of course no one who is a civilian would understand 4 tours of duty...they didn't sign up for the military because of what it asks of you. Either time, commitment, freedoms, etc. the military asks alot and puts people through tough times in peace and hell in war."

Keep telling yourself that. I didn't sign up for the military because I knew from the start that these wars were pointless, I didn't have any desire to be a pawn for those in power. These aren't even real wars; Congress has never formally declared war.

I agree with the rest of your post, though. Lots of people go through hell, and I have no doubt that 4 tours can be hell for many people. But that is no excuse for murdering innocent children, absolutely none.

Hey Jasmine,

You're not surrounded by people getting killed all around you, seeing your buddies get carried off with bloody stumps and gore all around, but it sure sounds like you are one broken tea cup away from climbing a clock tower and making the six o'clock news.

You have no excuse to feel hopeless and scared

And if he is criminally insane, then he should also spend the rest of his natural life in prison. Would you want this mass murderer living in your neighborhood?

Mikela - From a practical safety standpoint, no. I do not have that much faith in the power of modern psychiatry.

However, IF he is truly insane, he is probably not responsible for his actions, and is more to be pitied than hated. So IF he is criminally insane, he belongs in a mental hospital. If you've ever known somebody who is truly crazy, you'd probably agree with me.

But, that is a big if. Chances are he is just somebody who cracked under the stress. Perhaps we'll find out in the course of his trial, or not.

Too bad all around. Whatever the cause, 17 lives have been effectively destroyed, 16 Afghans and one U.S. soldier.

There was no need for that many tours.

He volunteered.

No excuse once more.

It's not an excuse, bone head. It's a REASON. They are 2 different things. Look them up in the dictionary. Of all the post's I've read so far on this subject, none seem to offer these facts as an excuse. It's WHY it happened, it doesn't EXCUSE it. BY LAW,(ours not sharia) HE IS ENTITLED TO A FAIR TRIAL AND WHATEVER SENTENCE THE COURT FEELS IS APPROPRIATE.

I was a soldier for ten years and we are not automatons. We are highly intelligent. I graduated Magna Cum Laude from Columbia. Most of us are a lot more sophisticated, educated and well trained than you give us credit. We are not trained to not think but in fact, are trained to do just that. We are held to a higher ethical standard than any other Armed force and this comes from our respect for our nations values. We wear our colors proudly.

That said, we still must eliminate any and all threats to our nation without hesitation. It is war. Bad things happen. Collateral damage, fratricide, rape, murder, death. As Bruce Willis said, The Army is a broadsword, not a scalpel. It is a design sharpened over the course of this nations great history and one that will continue to be refined in blood. This is a tragedy no doubt.

The bigger picture is the lack of undersanding those who have not served have when they shoot off their mouths as if you know what it is like to be a soldier.

And once again, yes, he volunteered. Probably like me, saw that $60,000 dollar bonus money as an 18 year old kid. Then they have your ass for 6 years like me. And you don't get to choose how many times they send you over there. Come on man, give me another reason not to blame our government again. 2 tours should be the limit. If we weren't at war for 11 almost 12 years, then we wouldn't have troops doing 4-6 tours. Stupid.

If they need your MOS even if you are in the Nat Guard you get the magic ticket to Afghanistan. you don't get to say gee Captain i don't feel like it this time. I knew a Nat Guard guy on his third tour in 2009 when they finally called up his unit.

Kevin S..............Very well said. I served under officers like you. I love my country and the US military that protects our freedom. My best wishes are with this wounded warrior and his family. Thanks for your service.

captn curtass

It's not an excuse, bone head. It's a REASON. They are 2 different things. Look them up in the dictionary. Of all the post's I've read so far on this subject, none seem to offer these facts as an excuse. It's WHY it happened, it doesn't EXCUSE it. BY LAW,(ours not sharia) HE IS ENTITLED TO A FAIR TRIAL AND WHATEVER SENTENCE THE COURT FEELS IS APPROPRIATE.

They are 2 different things and the people talking about why he did it are using it as an excuse. A reason is a cause for something - an excuse is why he should be shown leniency or not charged all together.

Excuse me for not knowing, but weren't soldiers during Vietnam gone for 13 months at a time? Isn't deployment in Afghanistan (or was in Iraq) for 6 months at a time? Weren't WWII deployments sometimes for years at a time? I grew up in a "Navy home" - twenty years my father served in the military. He served in Europe onboard an aircraft carrier, saw tragedy when his ship, Yorktown, was bombed and sunk in the Pacific and then saw duty in Korea. He was gone for at least a year at a time. He didn't seem my sister until she was nearly one year old. He was a very young man in the Pacific ( 19 or 20 yrs. old) but didn't claim PTSD as a result of seeing his friend's head float by him below deck while his ship was sinking. His brother told me this - not he. There are terrible social situations at home akin to war, too - daily assaults from thieving drug-involved gangs, food and medical care deprivation and abandoned, neglected and abused children who just don't understand, "why?" So, I ask, why is this murdering soldier given any opportunity to claim a "mental condition?" He had enough sense to "crawl" his way back to his base, rather than just walk - as he did TO the village, purportedly. He had enough sense to try to hide himself. Why so many excuses? War is hell - killing is hell. I wonder how he got OFF the base in the first place - undetected. No matter, he killed sleeping babies. End of story.

OIFOEFscrewed

And once again, yes, he volunteered. Probably like me, saw that $60,000 dollar bonus money as an 18 year old kid. Then they have your ass for 6 years like me. And you don't get to choose how many times they send you over there. Come on man, give me another reason not to blame our government again. 2 tours should be the limit. If we weren't at war for 11 almost 12 years, then we wouldn't have troops doing 4-6 tours. Stupid

Yes, the bonus money is good and you are spot on that there should be a tour limit; however, that is the flaw of a volunteer Army. You have the use the resources that are "donated" to you.

Regardless, based on your info six years is the enlistment length. We will presume he was in his last year so that means he would have signed up in 2005-2006. This is three years into Iraq (late 2003) and 4-5 years into Afghanistan (late 2001). By this time, stories of people doing more than 2 tours were abound. Stories of PTSD murders at home were already abound, casualty rates, civilian deaths, etc. These were all known at the time he enlisted.

While the gov't can be blamed for starting these wars and keeping them going, this soldier can't claim being deceived.

Wrong! This is a guy who was pissed about being over there, got drunk, and went looking to take his anger out on someone with a weapon. The soldier is no better than any of the terrorist that attacked us on 9-11, he is no better than Timothy McVeigh, or the soldier from Ft. Hood. The soldier took several innocent lives. He deserves the death penalty.

Chris, who has claimed he has immunity? Some of you people are not American citizens anyway. This is an open message board internationally. Some of you must be islamic extremist posting on this board to agitate Americans. Its okay though. No Taliban has ever hated an American as much as we hate our own.

Most of the worst comments come from those card carrying Jesus freaks.

Sorry folks - I'm as American as they come (not a secret Islamic fundamentalist - although I did recently watch an episode of All American Muslim on TLC and enjoyed it) and I say that anyone who admits to doing what he did should be drawn and quartered. Or whatever brutal custom is culturally relevant to Afghanistan.

If you are crazy enough to kill sleeping children - AND you have two young children at home - you should be put out of your misery. As a mother, I do pity his own parents who must be heartbroken and terrified that they're baby boy did this horrific act, but it happened. I am sickened for them, his wife/kids and all the victims. No sympathy whatsoever for this monster.

Cris go back and read my previous post and judge that person if you still feel the same way I'm sorry for you You too jenny go judge me in the previous post then if you can still say that I'm sorry for you too

Jenny that you would even type the words draw and quarter a man you do not know, over a situation for which facts are not known, just what you have heard on tv, says you suffer mob mentality yourself and to say you are a mother capable of such a rabid vengence is mine sayeth Jenny attitude say you are indeed a monster as well. You are like one of those anti abortion people that abhors the abortion, but then in turn kills the doctor that performed it and thinks its different.

You Jenny are a blood thirsty woman. Do you even know what drawing and quartering entails, Look it up on google. It is when he would be laid out on a table, and have his arms, legs severed from his torso while he is alive to feel it until he bleeds out for all the greedy masses to watch, then they behead him. When you watch a movie of a hanging back in the old west and how there would be citizens around watching and eating cake, or lynchings in the south in the 50's and 60's with a bunch of blood thirsty moms, dads, and their kids standing around looking at the body of some black person hanging while they are just smiling in the audience............. the ones in the picture looky looing and smiling are the psychos, this describes you Jenny. I pity your kids to be raised with such a callous monster.

He does have two kids, would you face them and say I hope they draw and quarter your daddy with a big ole evil grin? I bet you would you monster. You are a sick ignorant psycho.

His committing murder does not make it okay for you to be so happy to kill, it makes yo the same as him

Bravo Kevin!!!!

Einstein, you must have chosen a 'wannabe' name because you are as far away from being an 'Einstein'

as the farthest star is from earth!

I have no problem with this soldier facing the death penalty in a courts martial or Federal trial, and there is no way he should ever walk the earth again as a free man (my personal preference is life without parole because of the likely TBI/PTSD issues, but then again, he waited a day after seeing his buddy's leg blown off so it's premeditated) but no way do I support turning him over to Islamists for a primitive Sharia kangaroo court proceeding followed by an internet broadcast slaughter of him. He is subject to U.S. law, not Afghan (and that is the TALIBAN's fault )

Also, the officials in his upper chain of command that thought it was a good idea to send him back for another combat tour after multiple head injuries (they didn't get the memo about TBI's?) need to be done (and I'm sure that all of them have 20, so retire their a$$es and be done with it). He should have been in the rear with the gear, handling logistical and /or family support missions, but that in no way condones or excuses his actions. He needs to be standing tall before a Courts Martial as soon as a thorough criminal investigation has been completed.

How do you know he 'deserves' the death penalty. Are you psychic? Or were you the guy standing next to him the day before that got his leg blown off??? Were you right there and saw and know everything???

Damn what a complicated situation. Why are we still even there? Sh1t like this just makes the rest of the world hate us even more. We got bin and husen, we bombed the crap out of both countries, blew our money, got our high, proved our point, etc...... Its time we just leave.

It is terrible that our Government picks out Military people who serve their own country, then back stabs them for doing their job.

This is unprecedented. No person thinking about entering the Military will want to do so, knowing they could be on trial for a War response that gets great publicity; making the Afghans look like Angels.

War is a very dirty job. We should be rewarding each and every soldier; with NO military Crime against them. Who knows what the real story is here re: the Afghans killed. This has never been done before.

They could have been fronts for the Terrorists; or used by them. The children. That just goes along with a War that should have ended when Bush left office. War is not a politically correct Act. Just ask the Veterans of previous Wars.

Apologizing, then singling out a soldier who may have killed these people in self defense.

My prediction; This Soldier will get off the Charges---it is apalling to treat the Military who sacrifice and serve our country.

I call BULL$H*T on labeling holding a Service Member accountable for his or her actions "appalling" !! I managed to serve over a year (spread over 3 years) in Iraq , including being shot at, having mortars aimed at our base and IED's targeting our convoys (not that we were special, they were targeting ALL Coalition convoys), without violating our standing orders, going outside the wire and SLAUGHTERING 16 INNOCENT PEOPLE !!

Unlike Service Members in Stateside units, many of us who get deployed from overseas bases don't see our friends for YEARS (I was gone almost two and a half years when I got home on R&R, and my relationship with my girlfriend of nearly five years was a casualty of my extended absence) and yet somehow manage to act as the military professionals we're all supposed to be.

This soldier deserves to have to answer for his actions in a Courts Martial and should be standing tall in front of said Courts Martial as soon as a thorough criminal investigation of this incident can be completed !!

2BCT 1AD OIF 05-06 OIF O8-09

- it's really too bad it won't be Aghan justice.

Even if he wasn't a soldier, should we really turn over people to places with no justice system where they will be tortured and killed?

If a President ever sent an American citizen to that fate he would be impeached.

I could do that. When I snap I can do things I've learned but never been able to do in a normal state like kick up from my back and lift 2 full grown adults off the ground including one who weighed 230 lbs BTW I'm a woman. It is a robotic state with all skills at max.

Jave - we did turn people over to places with no justice system where they were tortured and killed. It is called rendition.

War Criminal. Hanging is too good for him. Shoot him in the back of the head execution style and kick his body into a ditch for the carrion eaters.

This one incident is likely to spawn a few new Osama Bin Ladens. 4 tours? Boo hoo, maybe the government should have started a draft for their endless wars instead of making the volunteers keep going back.

And speaking of volunteers, why didn't all the loud mouth warmongers who called me a troop-hating coward for being against these occupations...why didn't they volunteer?

What a disgrace this "war" is.

Peped

If you read the article, his lawyer maintains that he did not confess, so that matter is still in question. It doesn't say in anything I have read that he used night vision goggles and the two villages were right outside the base. As for targeting women and children for maximum effect, where you inside this man's head? How would you know? None of this has been established! In this country, people are innocent until proven guilty. That is what the law and the courts are for both civilian and military. If he is guilty, he will receive a just punishment for his crimes, more so because it will probably be a military court that will try him.

Kandahar is a NATO base and other countries allow their soldiers to consume alcohol. Only the US military forbids it.

Well sorry to burst your bubble but my god and his son will forgive him if he repents and recives the holy ghost.Do you even read the bible?

Which "Ghost"? Was there a silly movie about that? Go tweet a prayer or two.

You have no idea WHAT it is that you DON'T believe. Your day will come.

Chris, you do realize he is a killer. You're brilliant! That's what the military trained him to do, kill people. That was EXACTLY his job through 4 deployments. You are ignorant.

@Vsmith334... you said it right.. "IF he repent.." and if your comment was for me, I don't live or believe in bubbles, even Ted Bundy IF he repented for all his murders sincerely God can show mercy.

But the point here is not the spiritual salvation of a MURDERER, the real point is if he will reiceve the punishment that his crimes deserve in this life. And I hope that he received the maximun punishment.

Maybe you're a father, maybe not, but I'm a father and I can't imagine of suffering of those Afghanis people, after such horrible, inexcusable assesination, of children and adults SLEEPING, or do you think that 1 American life equal to 200 Afghani's lives? Is that your racionality?

Then move to another country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, they're alleged facts. We can debate what should happen based on the "facts" we know, but we do indeed need to confirm those facts. Remember that the "facts" were that Pat Tillman died in a blaze of glory, right?

I'll help you pack.

Galactic, I'll gladly boot you in the a*s on the way out!

Don't be so ignorant...the Status of Forces Agreement gives us the right to prosecute and punish, not the Afghans. That's why we left Iraq, they wanted to prosecute and judge our guys!

well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . he was trained to kill, . . . . .. . . .

"OMG how arrogant can we Americans get. The facts (they call it alleged) are this U.S. killer soldier murdered 16 Afghanistan women and children."

RESPONSE = We have courts.

"This KILLER U.S. soldier should be HANGED. And don't give me this BS about this killer having a mental problem ."

RESPONSE = We have courts.

"Why was this U.S. soldier redeployed if he was a lunatic."

RESPONSE = We have courts.

"And why was he flown to Kuwait to avoid trial in Afghanistan."

RESPONSE = you are ascribing motive to his transfer where it does not belong - see "We have courts".

"Pres Bush did not recognize the international Court in the Hague." - please, PLEASE give me an example.

"As an American I am ashamed of our arrogance .Galactic Cannibal"

RESPONSE = It is quite obvious that you are not actually a citizen of the US.

So leave. Renounce your citizenship and apply for another from somewhere else. That way you wont be an American anymore. Wait my welfare check will stop and I will have to work and not sit at home and spout this tripe.

Bin Laden and Hussein didn't get a trial. There are dozens in Gitmo who Congress refuses to allow in the US for a trial. This guy is human excrement. I think we lost a few hearts and minds over there, don't you think?

Saddamn Hussein most certainly was tried and convicted, then hanged, buy an Iraqi court.

Galactic Cannabal

An appropriate name for your post! Until the evidence is gathered and presented, it is alleged because there is no proof! Once the evidence is presented a decision can be made. If he is guilty then the death penalty is certainly a viable option, but until that time he is to be treated as a suspect. That is how are law works.

Spoken like a true Galactic idiot!!!

Wow, glad you were there and can tell us what happened. So let's hear more.... we're waiting .... should be hitting the news stand any time now... tick, tick, tick ....

I think you forget he is there under orders of Obama. Oh, I forgot, Obama is but monkey doing a dance for his white masters in the view of racist homophobes such as yourself, so it's still all Bushes fault?

"how many of these great warriors will 'just snap"

You're just an idiot. You wouldn't dare spew your crap to our men in uniform no doubt.

I ain't one of those soldiers never been in combat except with my ex-husband and his wife. and you trigger that state in me and I will probably kill you on the spot and sit down and wait for the cops. It has happened 3 times in my life and I hope it never happens again. I only got arrested once and because my ex and his wife were attacking me at the time the case was thrown out of court.

60 minutes did a story on a base in the northwest that had a high suicide rate. The soldier that shot and killed a forest ranger was stationed there. Many soldiers deployed from this base see multiple tours of duty. After seeing and doing what these soldiers do in these countries, its not surprising many succumb to despair, rage, and mental torment. War is hell. For participants, up close and personal, performing their duties may conflict directly with their morals and ethics. I don't condone what this soldier did, It's horrible. I think this is an extreme example of what many soldiers must experience on some level. I am here in the USA, comfortable in my daily life, not having to live day in and day out in a hostile situation. So, I can't judge. I can only feel sad for an unfortunate situation for the soldier and those killed by him. War is a last resort measure. More soldiers have died now than those people killed on 9/11. Bin Laden is dead. Time to end this endless war. Give these tired soldiers a break. They did their duty now bring them home.

WisconsinDad,

Needless conflicts? I'll bet you were one of those screaming the loudest for vengeance after 9/11. Though Bush was president when this conflict started, he did try to keep it from happening or doesn't your memory go back that far? The Taliban was given the chance to turn over Bin Laden and the other Al Qaeda leadership without having a war, but they refused.

So I guess you always tell people to try to understand the problems mass murdurers had that led to their killing sprees? Or do you just like it that he killeed AFGHAN children? Either way, sounds like you have major issues.

No Glenn but with my history I can't judge him. So I'll wait for the military court to do that.

So you don't "judge" anyone or any events you have no direct observations of? Or just not mass murderers, who must have had such hard lives so we must understand and care for them?

Glenn, you don't know what he was thinking. You don't know what lonereb is thinking either.

I think he should fry for this - the crime is unconscionable - but before you accuse others of having "major issues" and then laying those issues on his defenders on anonymous comment forums, maybe you need to look at the possible causes.

Mr. X shouldn't get a pass - he killed 9 children and 7 adults outside of combat - but we should STILL look into WHY he murdered and HOW to prevent it.

Simon, you are absoultely right! This supposed war cost me my marriage, my ex-husband just couldn't get his head right for a long time! I thank god he is better today, for our sons sake! People don't realize the REAL cost of this war, the real suffering these soldiers are going through and from what I remember, they didn't come home to the best evaluations and support. I thank this soldier for his continued service and four tours, i'm just SO very sorry that his mental state wasn't picked up on and attended to, I'm sorry that the fellow Americans, very ones he has protected feel they have the right to pick at him--shame on you! And, for the idiots that say well he "volunteered", brought it on himself, how stupid! This country is protected by proud Americans. They make countless sacrifices for this country and so do their families. Who knew people would be so hateful to their own servicemen. My prayers are with this soldier, his family and those killed in afghanistan, and with the Americans that forget 9/11!

Very well said, Mandy, thank you.

AMEN Simon!!

Excellent post, Mandy.

If he's a psychopath, why didn't he do it years ago??? He's had plenty of access to guns up to this point.

Will to Power...... careful how you use the computer when you speak on matters such as natioonal security. The Homeland Security Act is a big net and its for real. You also need to be careful how big your mouth is when speaking about our soldiers. I was injured in the line of duty. Sustained a head injury and was allowed to continue serving until a year after the first gulf war. Its pshychopaths that keep the fight on foreign soil so the fight does not take place in your back yard where some taliban soldier can walk into your home where you and your kids sleep, and put lead into all of your heads.

It takes a special kind of person to go into another country and kill those that would rather come here and kill our innocents. It takes a special kind of soldier to volunteer to serve his nation then to be extended over and over and sent back out to fight, and put it in his head that its his job, wave to his wife and kids goodbye maybe for the last time, and go.

He did this. He grew tired of not knowing who the enemy was on either side. The support we sometimes receive in the way of treatment is less than we give to the people we capture. Blood is on the hands of all of us that enjoy sleeping safely in our homes over here at the cost of this man having to fight the fight over there and not here. No one here riding out like Paul Revere yelling the taliban are coming thanks to our service women and men.

No doubt he snapped. He will be punished....... But until you have served........ tread lightly on my brother.

The guy was a nut who killed sleeping children and women, not a special kind of soldier. Good soldiers like to fight those who can fight back, they are not cowards. If you don't know who the enemy is, don't fight and most of all, DO NOT KILL! Comprendo? Good soldiers are not "psychopaths". I also served, and killed, and knew who the enemy was. I don't need to tread lightly here, as I'm actually quite mad that any soldier would defend the action of this crazed murdering lunatic, and suggest that you do not speak any more for anyone who ever wore a uniform, before you tarnish those who served, killed, and died honorably. Life isn't easy for many -- doesn't give you an excuse to go nuts and kill the harmless.

Glenn - there you go........ now you act as if you can speak for everyone that wore the uniform. I am not proud of his actions. I am not proud at all. It does take a special soldier to go over there and fight as I stated. Where in that paragraph, which was seperated as a paragraph, did I say he was a hero. I was sure I was discussing the nature of our men and women in uniform as special in general to those posters that seem to be mad at the military as a whole for the actions of one. I was sure some of them probably think chicken is raised in saran wrap born on a plate of styrofoam rather than the truth about how they are raised in filth and slaughtered bythe thousands so we can eeat at KFC.

As far as good soldiers not being psychopaths........ it takes training and lots of it to alter each of us mentally, that pulls the trigger on another human and calls it a job. In my basic training at Fort Benning, We would march to church in cadence singing "kill a commie rape his mommy stab a baby in the back" Or a yellow bird, with a yellow bill, was perched upon, my window sill, I lured him in, with a piece of bread, and then I smashed his Phuckin head. This on the way to church. So tell me about the psychopathy of a good soldier. The only difference between a good soldier and a murderer is whether or not the kid or woman appeared to have a gun in their hand and the amount of good or bad intel you had at the time. We carpet bomb whole cities Glen so stop pandering to the masses.

This from the same country that bombed Hyroshima and Nagasaki. I am sure no women and kids got hurt though, only combatants.

How soon we forget the nature of war.

I am not defending the individual Glenn, But I refuse to just sit by and listen to all these civvies and rear echelon mf's talk about a situation they have never been in. I am sure you walked around enough when down range that pretty soon everyone looked like a threat, or you would not be on this board right now. He went way too far and committed murder. But do you know whether or not he was sent to do this? Is he copping to this with hands up as a part of a bigger picture?

I know you know that most of what civilians hear on the news is rarely the true nature of what happened in country, on the ground, on the scene. That stuff will be classified and never see daylight. I am just not so quick to toss one of our own under a bus knowing the true cost of a stainless steel deck bolt on an M1 Abrams, or the true cost of a toilet seat in a latrine, and it isn't $85 bucks. The civvies know that too, but they don't know where the money is really going, they only suspect........we know.

"Will to Power...... careful how you use the computer when you speak on matters such as natioonal security. The Homeland Security Act is a big net and its for real."

NOTHING that Will to Power said even came close to violating any laws. By suggesting that he did you are attempting to limit his right as an American to speak out on issues of national concern.

"You also need to be careful how big your mouth is when speaking about our soldiers. I was injured in the line of duty. Sustained a head injury and was allowed to continue serving until a year after the first gulf war. Its pshychopaths that keep the fight on foreign soil so the fight does not take place in your back yard where some taliban soldier can walk into your home where you and your kids sleep, and put lead into all of your heads."

Explain how the presence of US soldiers in Afghanistan has any meaningful impact on the ability of a terrorist to attack an American target.

More likely dissociative break. It just sounds like a case of what happens to me only I never had an assault rifle. And the putting on the gear would have been robotic muscle memory.

Where do you get off throwing words like "most likely" around when you make claims for which you have no evidence whatsoever? The words you are looking for are "perhaps," "maybe," or "in my twisted imagination."

Tolstoy you are not, most likely never read his work either. We did not find Bin Laden in central park. We found him way on the othe side of the world. We have a US presence in many strategic locations. You either fight on a foreign front line, or a US front lawn. It was either the beaches of Normany, or Malibu Ca, I am glad we fight our battles on their terf. Some of you are pretty naive about whats going on here.

Let me put it simple. Drugs are going to be sold, I live in a gated community with private security but do realize that street walking hookers exist, drug deal will go down hand to hand style on some street corner, gangs will control those areas and they will exist, not should, but will. Would you prefer the bullets fly in the hood, or your safe quiet street?

The reason you see an increased police presence in those neighborhoods is not to catch all of the pimps, hoes and pushers, but to contain them there so they will not migrate to our nice quiet little suburb. There are no helicopters with FLIR flying over my "hood", the only cops in my area are the upper echelon and do not drive squad cars. We only see the real cops when they are out on the main blvd catching the errant porsche panamerica doing 50 in the 45, or on cops.

Well the military are the nations cops. There are some bad people in the world, we know where they hide, we go get them before they come over here or would you have us wait for them to get here again, let them take flying lessons?

Kevin - As you know there are all kinds in the military. I had many fights with other LT's in my battalion over when it was right to kill those unarmed. To me it is clear, both in the morals I have, and that which is spelled out in the UCMJ. I was an LT combat Engineer in the 90's, Kuwait, not Iraq, so I don't have first hand experiance of what is happening now, but enough to be happy I'm home and in the military anymore. But just because bad things happened, and are kept hidden, or even officially sanctioned, does not mean this one person act should be defended inany way. My job was to manage violence; this guy went way beyond that, did something personal, did something very criminal, and very cowardly. Chicken @!$%# baby killer. He should have at least had the balls to march into the mountains and taken out men, or blown his own head off. I don't think I have to defend all in uniform, just because I once wore one. As a dad now, I feel for the little ones killed, I care less for whatever devils torment the killer. Many have suffered more and not resorted to what he did. By defending that actions of this murderer (assuming what we are told is true), you are pretty much saying we would all do the same given the same circumstances. I don't for a minute believe that, and I'll bet most veterans would back me on this. Of course, we don't know the whole story, but we are commenting on just what we are told. (How often have you defended other mass murderers as we don't know the "whole story", don't know "what they have been through"?)

Regarding the jodies - we sung far worse, exagerating them to almost comic effect; did you guys really believe what you sung? C'mon -- you didn't get the joke? Good soldiers are disciplined, the need for the crazed killer is a myth made by hollywood, not some "rear echelon" fantasy. War is management of violence -- chaos means you are lost.

Glenn,

Once again, thanks for your insightful comments. You are clearly an intelligent and fundamentally decent person, and if we must have a military, I'm glad when people like you are in leadership positions.

Kevin--

1) "Tolstoy you are not..."

Agreed.

2) "...most likely never read his work either."

Another genius who throws around this "most likely" nonsense. I've read War and Peace four or five times, Anna Karenina 3 times, Resurrection five or six times along with a few hundred works you've never heard of, most in the original Russian. (If you know anything about Tolstoy, by the way, you'd know just what he thought of war and warfighters. Hint: he wasn't particularly fond of them.)

3) Re: the rest of your nonsense: The concept of "fronts" makes no sense whatsoever in the GWOT paradigm. The reason that there have been so few attacks on the United States is that the number of people who hate Americans so much that they're willing to sacrifice themselves wholly to getting to America and perpetrating attacks is incredibly small. The number of people who are willing to attack American occupiers is much, much higher. The idea that there are a significant number of people who would be attacking targets in the states but are somehow distracted by conflicts in other countries is ridiculous. Those few people understand very well the relative impact of an attack on America as opposed to an attack on American troops. The idea that the military is out getting terrorists before they have the chance to come over is just as ridiculous. So is your claim that violent drug gangs haven't taken over suburban neighborhoods because the cops are fighting them in the slums. The reasons behind this are far, far more complex and I really don't have time to go into them tonight.

Sorry Glenn, but there is a HUGE differece between the Gulf War as Lt. engineer and this man. He was in Iraq, and it was Hell and he worked for a living, killing, as a sniper. Up close and personal. He was injured in a road side bomb (which there were none of in 'the Gulf'). I wish you the best with your pell grant and your 'good soldier' bull crap. Seriously, a big LT. Ridiculous, you don't compare and according to your posts you were a stupid soldier, not getting shot at every day and every night. What kind of idiot says that YOU KNOW THE ENEMY. Do you think the 'taliban' wear a special color of rag on their head so we know who is who? And, sorry, but do you believe their women are 'innocent' because.... they are female?

With all of the hyperbole and conjecture, I wonder if anyone has truly considered that this soldier, about whom we know very little except that he had a TMI, was suffering from PTSD and had seen a fellow soldier severely wounded the day before, just went crazy. Crazy is not rational and does not consider the ramifications of what it is doing. Crazy cannot consider finding "better targets" than children and their parents. Clearly these were actions of a very sick man whose personal values (a father with two children implies he had a family life and knew love) disappeared. I agree with his defense attorney in that the management of soldiers to see and act upon violence three and four tours is beyond the capacity of many people. I have predicted (not original, just an observation) that we are going to see a lot of unhinged violence in this country from untreated or under-treated soldiers who have witnessed and acted upon combat situations beyond what their brains can tolerate. We have seen many already. I write from the perspective of a sibling who has had both brothers and sisters go to war as well as nephews in the Middle East. My sister is still on active duty and assesses returning soldiers for health care treatment. She must turn herself upside down to get PTSD treatment without harming a soldier's record. This kind of mentality, treatment resulting in a punishment or "ding" to the soldiers good standing instead of encouragement for understandable mental difficulties after so much violence, is an incredible problem. Thus, a TMI/PTSD soldier goes "off the reservation" and commits unspeakable acts and we are all left to wonder why? I would say hanging him from a tree, the death penalty, may be quick and satisfy a lot of peoples' emotions but does not address the essential problem: the ramifications of too many tours, too much violence, war as a solution to an intractable problem. We are going to pay the price.

Absolutely!!! If we were to hang all responsible for the killing on innocent lives there would not be enough afghans left to worry about. Even on the left, whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

most all the same family, are we sure they are soooooo innocent? who puts those roadside bombs? those vest wearers? no so sure anyone is that innocent over there. take a moment and read the koran and learn what they are taught. these are not our freinds up the street. they want to kill us and they are very two faced about it. its in the koran. put your arm around them in freindship and slip the blade between the ribs.

1) "who puts those roadside bombs? those vest wearers?"

Not two year-olds who are sleeping in their beds.

2) " take a moment and read the koran and learn what they are taught."

Now take a moment and read the New Testament. Here is what it says: "But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Now you tell me: How many "Bible believing Christians" take the commandment to not resist evil seriously? Now perhaps you can understand how a Muslim could be a peaceful person.

I love how you hear that an entire family was wiped out, but instead of concluding that this fact may have had something to do with them living in the same house that an apparently drunken maniac burst into, you posit an absolutely ridiculous story that he must have targeted them for terrorist activities.

I'm not a fan of the bible in a literal fashion either. And I would not swear to defend this s soldiers action, just saying there was a chance there was a deeper motivation than seems immediately apparent from the outside. there is no excuse for the actions , but an understanding how this mindset is contagious. There are far more Al Islam that are good than are bad, but most of the non fanatical nations under Islam are not being occupied by interlopers. War is the hell man passes through. if we understand , we can prevent unreasonable deaths.

at minimum PTSD is living death for most who endure war in the name of???? freedom. on the third tour this guy should have been stateside , training or riding a desk. no one healthy wants to stay in a war zone.

My, your argument has really changed very quickly. Wasn't so long ago that you were claiming that there was a pretty good chance that this guy was just going terrorist hunting...

RCovit,

you are correct in that most of the victims were from 1 family in that first village. Those killed in that family were 4 girls, ages 2,3,4, and 5, and 4 of their brothers, ages 8 to 12, his wife and 2 other women (perhaps sisters, mother, other wife - the articles didnt state). He and a teenage son live because they had been in another village wiith friends/family.

He then methodically went to the next village and wiped out another family of 4 which included a 5 yr old girl, then proceeded to a 3rd house in that village where he killed the father, but the women escaped before he could kill them.

I have come to the assumption, after reading numerous articles on this tragedy, that he was drunk, pissed off at his wife and used them as proxy for what he would have done to her had he been able to get his hands on his wife.

There is probably a very good reason she waited until he was 10,000 miles away to tell him what she told him in that "upsetting" email he received from her that night before he went ballistic killing those families.

No change , an eloboration. I still believe there was more than drunken random in this mans actions.

RCovit

Drunken, PTSD, or whatever DOES NOT MATTER

I can't believe you are making excuses for a butcher. The guy would have killed his own kids or walked into a school and started shooting... If one of your kids were there shot dead, would you give him an excuse? Don't think so.

Recycled.. the article mentioned that a soldier was standing next to him and had a leg blown off the day before the rampage, but no mention of a dear john email. I know if I were inches from death and someone else was even closer , I might not respond in the reasonable fashion I call normal.

your use of "he and a teenage son" infer that some male was the primary target , and the other homes the males were killed. this counters your idea this is aimed at women and children.

It is common thought in a feudal world , to wipe out all immediate kin, genocide. wipe out the evil gene.

here in the US we hunt terrorists, in Afghanistan war zones the adversary and allies are both Afghani.the adversaries are not terrorists ,but the enemy .

They use deception and any means possible to win on both sides. There is no uniforms to tell who is who. I am not defending the soldier or his actions. I am saying he seemed methodical and there may be more than meets the eye. Throw your tool of war under the bus, he already wrote himself off as a casualty of war with his statements. But there may be a few less terrorists coming to the US because these soldiers were there. don't expect to train killers and good citizens in the same healthy human.

Funny how this garbage mainstream media is still reporting of one soldier. Don't believe the lies.

All I can say is that no one in their right mind would do such a thing.

sarah-3519311

All I can say is that no one in their right mind would do such a thing.

This can also be said of serial killer Ted Bundy who killed over 100 women in at least 7 states over the course of more than a decade, possibly 2 decades. They could only tie him to approximately 40 cases, got 3 death sentence and he was electrocuted for 3 of his murders .... but we did indeed sentence him to death by electrocution and it was carried out. Bundy is relevant because this Sgt's civilian lawyer also was one of Bundy's many defense lawyers.

This can also be said of ANY mass murderer, since those in their "right minds", according to our society and most civilizations today do not condone nor recognize as sane the wanton mass killings of defenseless people, expecially in their sleep.

Any American who feels like they must be protected from infants and young children and their defenseless mothers and fathers asleep in their beds anywhere are either true cowards, believe in genocide (kill the eggs before they mature into adults), or have no concern for mankind (just an ideology) and dont deserve "security". The one thing they truely are NOT is christian.

This is exactly what we would ask if someone did it here.

Double standards.

He actually served more combat time than my uncle who was drafted in 1940 and was staging for the invasion of Japan when the japanese surrendered. I doubt either he or his brothers were the guys who left when they came back since the younger still jumped 10 years later if you didn't make noise coming up behind him. If we are going to keep these sandbox wars up we better reinstitute the draft these guys are all showing problems.

Does kind of make you wonder about our politicians who are always looking to start another war (Iran, Syria) before finishing up the last one.

It's as if they think our soldiers are expendable automatons to be consumed during a quest for re-election.

They want a small "professional" military they can keep sending into harms way over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. All so they can look tough and patriotic to the voters.

That, and start another war to divert attention from the problems they created at home.

Osama bin Laden is dead, time to stop with the empire building and bring our troops home!

3 tours in Iraq and they (Leon Panetta and the commander in chief) send him to Afghanistan! These politicians are UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!! Send them and let's see how long they last before they crack!

Leon Panetta needs to take capital punishment OFF the table. This is simply Grandstanding for morons that want us gone except for out money.

Yeah! Hooray for stop-loss! No cause and effect here.

I'm sure in 2 seconds he could "snap" you in half. He's no Jr. high punk. He's a combat veteran.

Hey glock, this "combat veteran" needs to kill 2 years olds in the middle of the night, instead of taking on those who could fight back. In my book, that makes him a pussy. And anyone who defends that, is a pussy x 2. You know marky? You know me? You know anything about being a "veteran"? I'll tell you something - we don't need to be treated as special, and don't defend the actions of those who tarnish the rest. Go back to you video games, enough with your imaginary friends.

I'm way too old for video games and have done my time. It takes a pussy to call for the head of a soldier they know nothing about X2. I'm sure you've never served. I'm from a long list so F off.

Hey glock, from a "long list". Bet you where some kind of delta force, special forces, seal team, etc. right? I don't know you, you don't know me, but either way, we all know what a pussy is, and make pretend can only go so far in your own mind. People are killed for far less, you know? Yeah, I call for the nuts head -- and that make me a pussy in your imaginary world. Good thing. Hard to keep the fantasy alive, right?

Glock, you are a pussy.

dave, are you just trying to flirt with Glenn? If gay is your way then that's on you. Just keep it away from me and don't look so desperate next time homo.

No marky but I'll give you two minutes with me where do I send the body afterwards.

Are you wearing your wife beater shirt?

Dumb asses.

"Are you wearing your wife beater shirt?"

Why, do you hit like a wife or are you trying to put out like one? My guess is both. Make me a sandwich biatch!

You guess wrong.

I'm sure one of these days you'll snap, grab your gun and shoot some school kids. It will be all over the news, and you will be famous.

go back home marky go back to afghanistan marky. leave

To the person stating "He should be put in front of a firing squad" you are a very sick person. Our military help create these killing machines, and want to take no responsibility, that too is sick. What he did was wrong on so many levels, but it wasn't just at his hand.

Nunu, why don't you bite me.

I love it when folks don't like what they hear and don't have a response other than "go back home", as if you own this place.

Hey GUYS! I'd bet many of you actually enjoy pussy. Would you please stop using the word as an insult to others? It's offensive.

Thank you!