I agree that there is no shame in asking for help in dealing with what the saw and what they had to do for their brethren and their country. Fred is correct in that these brave warriors cannot talk to someone who was not in the middle of it. I son served in Iraq and form just the little he has told me I cannot image the rest which he says he cannot tell me. What this story does not tell you is that if these brave soldiers seek treatment they are branded for life. Anytime they apply fro a job an employer has access to the DOD records which shows the soldier received treatment for PTSD. That is the shame in this. I know more than a few soldiers that have had tours of duty and most are not ashamed that they need treatment. most want treatment, by most will not seek it as they believe it destroys there future employment opportunities.

jeffro: This is terrible! I had no idea that the military breaks the rule of confidentiality! Nobody is supposed to divulge what a person was treated for if they see a doctor, including if they see somebody for mental health issues. That is the rule for civilians, and perhaps the only reason why anybody is able to seek out mental health treatment at all. Yes, there ought to be a law against allowing that information out, and perhaps there already is a law, but not followed properly.

The two things that any person needs are 1. Confidentiality, and 2. Access to treatment, and if there is no VA treatment, then the VA should pick up the tab for civilian psychological social work. No, not everybody has gone through combat, but there are still 'Nam vets out there that do counseling, and they have some idea what combat is about (but they don't all work for the VA).

I wish that Congress would take the issue of mental health in the military much more seriously, and both keep it confidential, and pay for treatment.

RE: Terrorism alert: KGB total brainwashing technique

US Ministry of Defense provides automatic guns and weapons to thousands of potential terrorists who can commit the same or similar crime as during this Kandahar massacre of civilians in Afghanistan or during the Fort Hood (Texas) shooting where on November 5, 2009 a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others. Why is it so? This is because some part of Russian KGB uses a brainwashing technique that requires only a few hours and leads to total mind control. After GULAG KGB brainwashing, such military personnel people can take guns and kill many others and themselves.

I repeat this brainwashing technique requires only a few hours of intimacy for total mind control (so that there is no confusion). This can be easily achieved due to, for example, prevalent promiscuity and lack of any public awareness about this method and KGB people who use such brainwashing. Note that such crimes are nearly impossible to prove, since the brainwashed people either kill themselves or, if they survive, will say only those things that were ordered them to say.

Those KGB bums have their own interest (it is like fun-entertainment) in making, for example, US soldiers kill others, such as people in Afghanistan. Feel free to forward this message to others and people who make decisions.

Artour Rakhimov, PhD

They are now investigating the military hospital near the base in Washington and have expanded it to more military hospitals. We the people owe it to our veterans to make sure this investigation isn't a whitewash. The investigations are because of complaints that diagnsis of PTSD were changed to save money for the army and VA. It is bad enough to have to fight the stigma of reporting your problem then to have it overturned is criminal.

Don't just sit here we know there is a problem with the way the retuning soldiers are treated. There is an investigation so contact your congressman and let him know we won't stand for a whitwash. I just sent a message to mine on facebook. just type your state representative in the bing bar and it will take you to the contact list for every congressional representative.

A good article, but poor conclusions.

Almost all militaries and militants, especially Islamic ones, are trained to kill and kill!

"That attitude lasted until someone I knew was killed. Then I felt – ‘the hell with these people, kill them all."

More than Sgt Bales fault, it is the dumb Gens' faults. Who can send a badly injured one to more and more deployments?

thanks every one, I was in the nam for one yr & got blown up & went back to nam after 5 months in the hospital. nam was hell & by going back let me take the anger out of my system. I retired after 26 yrs in the army. now 30+ yrs, wow ptsd starting to creep up. I put up wall all those yrs & when i knew i could knock down a wall i did. some wall's you will never knock down. I talk to a lot of vets from all wars and that does help. iall i can say is to talk talk talk. thanks for all vets for serving & well come home. g.i.joe

Confidentiality, Elizabeth? Really?

My Veterans' Service Officer referred me to a psychiatrist for evaluation of my memory loss. At one point during the session, which obviously focused on PTSD, he began asking questions, looking for specifics about experiences. I asked him, "How confidential is this?" He answered, "Anything you say, I'm writing it down." I said, "Next question."

....and this was a CIVILIAN psychiatrist, with no connection to the military or even the VA.

I don't believe there is such a thing as confidentiality any more, except maybe at the abortion clinic.

In that same vein, I know it also can make matters much worse seeking help from these professionals that have never "been there". My friend suffers from PTSD from several tours in Afghanistan and I know that if he is having one of his extremely depressive "episodes" (for lack of a better term, even though I hate saying that because its sounds so glib) and he hears from a civilian, be it a doctor or just a concerned friend "I know how you feel..." or "I understand" anything along those lines he will immediately shut down or worse, become extremely angry with the person. This will usually end any conversation they are having and he will lose most of his trust in this person. As I have seen him explain to other soldiers, this is because they don't know, they don't understand and for them to presume they do upsets him greatly. I always have to be sure to tread very carefully when I'm trying to talk him out of particularly dark places to not use any phrases or words that would indicate to him that I am aligning what happened there with anything that has taken place in my relatively cushy life.

I can only guess that this is a common problem for these vets and its terrible that so many of them feel they don't have an understanding place to turn to after they have made the monumental decision to get help. All I can say is that anyone with a friend or family member suffering from PTSD would do well to research all they can and if possible take some courses on the matter and pay very careful attention to their loved ones and their triggers so they can do their best to ensure that they are not only getting the professional support they need, but that the (correct) support comes from all facets of their lives.

As a person with non-combat related PTSD, I can tell you that it isn't about "having been there." This is not to minimize, or otherwise categorize the suffering of any individual. However, it should be noted that there are, in fact, very few mental health professionals who have the type of training that it takes to deal with the issues that are unique to PTSD, itself. During a dissociative episode, I was actually RE-traumatized by a dismissive therapist. I don't think that she had any idea that she was being extremely UNhelpful. Trauma is just a very specific, yet nebulous issue for people to work through, and it requires highly trained individuals that understand that while one can heal and learn to cope, they are never CURED of PTSD.

Diatribe: You hit on a very important point. Thank you for bringing up that one can learn and cope. They may "heal" and (my words) make peace with it. BUT, they are never cured. Thank you again for that most important point. The PTSD becomes a part of who we are. We just have to live with it, to adjust to it, and be aware that it is ever lurking there, just out of sight, waiting for an opportunity to reassert its ugly self.

Fred Craven

You hit on it.

Combat P.T.S.D. is a whole different animal. We who have it ARE ONLY COMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT IT WITH FELLOW VETS. From my own personal Experience , I got damn lucky. I have seen several V.A. psychiatrists . All they do is drug therapy ( get you stoned and keep you happy ). Never learned a thing from them. I did how ever learn a ton from two psychologists at my local vet center. They knew combat P.T.S.D. and helped me with one on one therapy and group therapy. Some of my friends had it so bad , that they went into what we called the unit. The unit is a special unit at the V.A. hospital in NORTH PORT LONG ISLAND N.Y. The doctors there know P.T.S.D. inside and out. It is a very tough 90 days locked in the hospital, there is no easy way to learn about your problem and how to deal with it. There is also a support group that meet at the hospital once a week. It is called VETS OVER THE HORIZON. I do believe they have an off shoot group in NORTH CAROLINA and one in FLORIDA.

One thing I learned is this: the system only works when one vet reaches back to help another. I for one walk around with one hand behind my back feeling for another vet to grab hold of, so I my help them get the help they need. The up hill fight however is DENIAL . DENIAL RIVER IS BOTH WIDE AND DEEP some of us never get out of it. Hope this posting was of some help to you and look at P.T.S.D. differently from now on.

bob

Stupid me !!

Forgot to tell you that the vet centers are free for vets and their families. Yes they work with the families of vets with P.T.S.D. and or other problems. Look in your local phone book under U.S. government offices. If I was any good on line I would give you the web address, but I know you can find it under U.S. Government.

bob

Look up vet organizations for 'Nam vets; they do offer counseling, and it is by and for those who have been in combat. I went to a PTSD class at a SciFi convention led by a vet, and it was not only informative, but a very well attended class even though it was "off topic" of the con. People are out there, and want to help.

Diatribe, I totally agree with you. I went through that years ago after being raped. The social workers were worse than nothing. But in my case, I really didn't want to know about other's traumas, as selfish as that sounds, because I didn't want to think about all the horror of the world. If a friend would confide about their own rape, I would be more upset. But if they didn't understand at all, I just couldn't deal with them, because most mental health counselors are trained that psychological problems are caused by wrong thinking, not by actual experiences. Luckily, I did not get HIV. However, I did find excellent counseling from volunteers (and they were not MS social workers!) who just happened to have HIV, when I went for my test. They knew what a life and death situation really meant, because they were living it every day. I realized that one could be dealing with horror and still have integrity inside, and it really made me feel much better. After that, hetero as I am, I have supported LGBT issues. Also, I always dread the date the crime happened to me: disasters always happen on it. And, it makes me more passionate about human rights, and more upset that some people do not care about the suffering of others.

diatribe I'm glad not really the right word you said that I can if put it a position of being defensive like on the floor being attacked disassociate and end up watching myself kick up lift two full grown adults off the floor. And see the whole thing from the position of a spectator.I can't get anybody to understand I do not want to be in a social situation where that could happen they think I'm just being "silly"

The article was on Iraqi experience with just one deployment!

Without Bibles and their basic prayers US soldiers were stationed for years in Saudi Arabia to protect the ruler and his 5000 princes and princesses and Sunni Islamic scholars/mullhas and their holy places.

For the mistake of burning Quran, if NATO forces are killed in Afghanistan with daily hate and "kill, kill and kill" chanting marches, most soldiers will go crazy!

How many counselors will be required for PTSDs?

If Sgt Bales had not gone crazy earlier, credit should go to him! He was going through three deployments.

Are poor soldiers super-humans or expectations beyond any sane yardsticks?

In this hypocrite world, some expect others to have all all morals, values, characters and standards!!!

Bob:

Please understand that to say combat PTSD is something totally different from other PTSD is not correct. Like I said before, this statement is not in any way to minimize the trauma of combat. The point is that the chemical and emotional processes/issues that define PTSD are the same, no matter what the trauma. Thing is, trauma, itself, affects everyone differently. Using combat vets (my own father has PTSD and is a Vietnam vet) as an example, different soldiers can serve side by side, witness all the same events, and interpret it differently. Only about 7-10% of the population is going to develop PTSD, IF exposed to trauma. There is often the appearance that it is more common in combat veterans, but I suspect that this is simply because of ubiquitous exposure in that context to potential triggers.

What I have found to be the major problem regarding treatment is that so many in the mental health industry would really like to just medicate us, pronounce us cured, and wash their hands of the whole affair. Over the years (20 years, plus, of living with PTSD), my dogs have been what sustains me. Antipsychotic/antidepressant drugs/alcohol, etc., can SEEM to mitigate the symptoms, but they are merely a mask. My dogs have always proven to be the most reliable indicator of what is and is not real (hallucination). I have only just in the last year or so been fortunate enough to find cognitive behavioral therapy which is finally helping to mitigate the disease. This was after suffering a major dissociative break that lasted more than six months and destroyed my career and nearly every relationship in my life. Thing is, PTSD constitutes "brain damage" in that it FUNDAMETALLY changes how the brain operates and interprets data, both from the past and the present. Thus, we have to reprogram our brains in order to cope, so to speak.

I can understand that you wouldn't want to try to explain the particulars of combat trauma in some kind of group setting with non-vets, because they really can't relate, but that doesn't change the nature of the beast. The reality is that with good treatment, combat PTSD can often be EASIER to treat than other, more complex manifestations (for instance, multiple traumatic events happening over extended-like lifetimes-periods of time). This is because, and ONLY because, there is a much more extensive body of research regarding treatment of combat vets, as opposed to other causes of PTSD. Yes, war is hell, but for many of us, our experience is LIFE ITSELF is hell, and it would be so much easier if we had a memory of something else, besides that hell, but we simply don't and have to find ways to go on, or perish. A friend of mine has a saying, "The nature of the pain is real." I've often thought that sums it up well.

I was born in the 1950s, and everybody's parents then had been through World War II. They all claimed that they didn't have problems, but everybody's father was very formal towards their family, distant, and quick tempered. They blamed the Depression, and yet most of them would not talk about WWII.

My husband's father (may he rest in peace) debriefed soldiers that had been imprisoned in the Luzon concentration camp in the Philippines. He was just a sergeant, and not trained for debriefing, but somebody had to take the information. After that, he was transferred to the Air Corps where he sent up weather balloons (and he had been a gunnery sergeant, decorated in combat). We put 2 and 2 together when, at an assisted living home, on Sept. 11, 2001, he tried to carry the other residents out of the building saying that the Japs were coming! He had faced fanatics in combat, but the only story he told my husband was the worst of the worst. In the concentration camp, not enough water was given to the prisoners, and I'm not going to say any more on that. He always had a formal and distant relationship with his only son, and with his granddaughter, and with me. People wondered, even in our generation, why we had such a "generation gap" with that generation, but they were all so distant, and they all expected perfection 110 percent of the time. But he always told my husband that the family had given (all brothers served, including others with shell shock which was the old term for PTSD); and if my husband should be drafted for Viet Nam, he would personally take him to live in Canada.

I had one uncle come home and stay pleasantly buzzed until the day he died. And one that for ten years after the war would jump if you came up behind him too quietly. No they didn't have problems Like hell they didn't.

PTSD is like the marriage that you swore to, till death do you part. It only lasts as long as your mind does. It's why the 9mm brain drain is so popular.

Dale

The name of the game is persistence . If at first you don't succeed than call and write your congressman. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Never give up !!! We who have fought the V.A. to get this benefit have fought this same fight and won!!!

bob

Hey, DaleW ----- Not only can the active military be difficult to deal with, but the VA, while noting my PTSD as attested to by my VA psychiatrist of four years, refused to grant me benefits because I COULD NOT PROVE my definitive stressor. My ptsd arose from my time during the Viet Nam era. I was asked to give the exact date of the triggering event and who the crew members on my aircraft were. My stressor happened in the Spring of 1967. Although the VA, according to their OWN PUBLISHED REGULATIONS (CFR 38), 3.102 (Reasonable doubt), all things being equal, or nearly so, the given point of contention will be resolved IN FAVOR OF THE CLAIMANT. Unfortunately, the VA does not interpret it's own rules as they are codified. While I have never had a problem with the medical side of the VA (eight operations), the bureaucracy is another story. I have become fully convinced that the VA bureaucracy is not your advocate, but your adversary. FRUSTRATING does not even begin to describe what veterans are put through by the Veterans Administration. My claim(s) have been going through the hearings and appeals for almost NINE YEARS. Over that period of time I have witnessed scores of other veterans who were completely lost as to how to go about getting their claims properly handled. Many die before their claims are adjudicated. Most simply give up out of frustration and walk away, disillusioned. I have had good counseling and very good legal representation by an attorney who handles NOTHING BUT VA CLAIMS. He certainly has much more patience than I.

Someday, a veteran will be pushed beyond reason and will shoot up the VA or Congress. While I would never do so (fear of retribution? prosecution?), I will be the first in line to contribute to that veteran's defense fund with a check. The government in general, and the VA in particular, just doesn't get it. I am not alone in this. There are scores of thousands, perhaps HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of veterans in as bad OR WORSE SHAPE than me. We are no longer on active duty, so, we are of little value. We have been shunted aside. Forgotten. My guess is that many of those active military and veterans will read this and feel as though they are in the same predicament. Some may even comment on the ptsd article and relate their own experiences. No doubt there will be a common thread running all of their stories. Here's and idea; Bring back the vast majority (if not all ) of our troops overseas and put the MANY BILLIONS of dollars going to the scores of countries where U. S. forces are stationed into PROTECTING OUR OWN BORDERS and giving medical as well as mental conditions much more attention and funding.

For me, I am finding isolationism to be a VERY ATTRACTIVE ideal. Let the rest of the world take care of their own problems. We have spent enough, no, too much, blood and treasure on affairs which have earned us only bad feelings from the majority of countries throughout the world. The U.S.A. should resign from being the policeman (and the money spewing financial fountain) of the world. Let another country pick up the mantle and even attempt to replicate what we have done over the last seventy plus years.

The VA dosen't follow the same rulebook that they say they do. There is almost nothing that won't do to deny benefits. Including lying, cheating and stealing or behaving like federal employees.

I had a twelve year old that needed treatment for a year for PTSD. I don't care what anybody says these guys need our help and our support.

A lot of the problem is that for many the PTSD exists BEFORE the triggers. It's quite the nebulous mental illness, being behavioral, as opposed to organic.

Find out who is in charge of the insidious plan to avoid the nation's responsibility to the troops. Deliver him up to Patty Murray so that she can explain a few things to him.

@Fed up

You are 100% correct, stop sending our men and women to foreign soils to fight senseless battles. And yes, the do nothing congress really does need to do better on every issue. But I have to ask, why F-U Obama, he did not start the wars that cause these brave men and women to suffer from PTSD. If I recall, it was George Bush and Dick Cheney who wanted the wars. Obama is having to do clean up duty. Yes it has been three years since he took office, but trying to clean up after Bush and Cheney is like trying to clean up after 100000000 chickens all in one small house with nothing more then a spoon. It does and will take more time. Look at the mess they left us. Blame the right people !

Roger: 3yrs. was more than enough time to end the war(s).

Tell that to Richard Nixon.

There was a guy named Usama that contributed to he disassembly of a couple of towers in NYC that caused the US to go to Afghanistan. The B-52s were called off of tora bora for the sake of politically correctness. Guy named Saddam was running around bragging about his nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, he bragged himself right into a hole in the ground. The mistake came when the Army agreed to install a democracy in each country. Go figger?

@ ziegl087

It is ONLY A STIGMA if you choose to make it one.

Most of us with it prefer to call it a condition. It is if you will an altered state of living. What do I mean by that ?? Simple: we look at the world through different eyes, we judge the world and it's people differently. Our lives were forever altered by our combat experiences. We will never be the people we were before . So we move on doing the best we can as we are. Still most people think that we are going to flip out at any second and kill everything in sight. Most of us have BUNKER MENTALITY . All that means is we don't really want anything to do with your world. So we hide in plain sight.

bob

P.S. You can not pick us out of a crowd : but we can pick out one another with just a glance in each others eyes.

PTSD is a normal reaction to an extra normal stimulus. It is no longer classified as an illness, but as an injury. Except by the US Army and the VA of course?

cchance, Please! Please! Go into another profession! I will leave it at that!

A discharge resulting from "pre-existing Personality Disorder" is under conditions "other" than honorable" not quite a dishonorable. A diagnosis or accusation of Malingering, or the faking of PTSD symptoms results in a Dishonorable. In either case, there are no VA benefits for the soldier.

Most do not get well as you call it they learn to cope with it. Most people with any mental stress disorder do not get well they learn to avoid situations that can set them off. Please find a position where you can change bandaids.

No they just get washed out and sh*t canned, I know I have had tooooooooooo many brothers vouch to that effect. You preaching to the CHOIR..... Doc.............

So you've never been in combat, and you feel like you can participate in this conversation as an authority.

Curious.

In my case of not PTSD but what it is I don't know medication doesn't help that much. iIt kept me cycling all the things in my head without resolution and Lord help me if I missed a dose. I have actually walked away from all my stressful people insert family moved 1400 miles away and stopped the meds I am happier more content and avoid the things that would cause me to trip. I hope your son finds peace I too shut down if somebody says the wrong thing to me.

So, what is the government gonna do to me if only I know where my arms are. Don't care what they know!

muw, I see your lobotomy didn't work.

Some of these people really ARE too messed up to have guns. Not everyone should be able to get one. You sound like one of them, even though I bet you've never served a day in your life. I have. I've seen PTSD. Get some help.

If they take your guns you can keep beating off to back issues of Guns & Ammo. Let them pry THOSE from your sticky hands.

For some reason my post didn't post correctly! The beginning of my post should've said: Nam vet here and I finally realized I suffer from PTSD after 40 year!

It's called LOSS, Late Onset Stress Simptomatology. Some VA psychologists recognize it, others don't?

To add to that what doctors don't know about TBI would fill a book. My ex had scar tissue on the brain from 7 yrs on and his first seizure was when he was 16. This you just have a concussion stuff is BS too.

They are investigating the hospitals now. Everyone of us should make sure they don't whitwash this. These guys deserve better and only we can make sure they get it. We need to hold these doctors responsible for the way they screw up the lives of others.

DEAR SSGT MATLOCK,

I AM PROUD OF YOUR SERVICE

Thank You

Sadly, there are also incidents where elderly veterans have lain in veteran's hospitals and starved to death because they were unable to feed themselves or no one took the time to feed them. It wasn't until very recently that the severity of agent orange was discovered and I read an article that it was sprayed at 27 times the recommended amount. From my understanding of what I read, researchers were instructed not to connect the symptoms of illnesses to agent orange. Now the only question asked veterans is, "did you serve boots on ground in vietnam.?" But Ptsd still seems to be pushed into the background and I cannot understand the stigma attached to it. The brain is part of the body, the same as any other and should not be ignored any more than any other physical ailments. Soldiers are only doing their duty and performing acts of courage that only the strong can perform. They deserve all of the respect, care and understanding we can give them. They were there for us, now we need to be there for them.

Proud

Nightmares are a tough nut to crack. One must remember that they are only memories and memories can never hurt us. Believe me easier said than done. It is really bad when the dreams are inter active. Meaning you are in your dream and trying to change the out come. It never can be changed. What happened , happened. I found that if you can confront your dreams and remember that they are only dreams . They slowly over time ease off. But it is a long hard road. Mine still come back from time to time. Usually at anniversary times ( still not fun but they will ease off ).

bob

After a long time and a lot of therapy, I learned that I always woke myself up before I fought back. A major breakthrough was finally forcing myself to NOT wake up and fight back in my dreams... Hard place to get to, granted, but made a huge difference.

The trial of MAJ Hasan is scheduled to begin this summer. He is facing the death penalty.