E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Spc. Ryan Hallock/Dvids/ Handout / EPA
U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, pictured here at the National Training Center in Fort Irwin, California in August 2011, has been charged with 17 counts of murder in the deaths of 17 Afghan villagers.
Here are two versions of what happened the night of March 11, when 17 Afghan villagers were shot to death.
First, the Army version: Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, troubled by marriage woes, drunkenly left Camp Belambai, 12 miles from Kandahar, with a pistol and an automatic rifle and killed six people as they slept. Bales then returned to the base and left again for another village, this time killing 11. He acted alone and he admitted to the killings, according to the Army.
Then there is the account that child witnesses provided Yalda Hakim, a journalist for SBS Dateline in Australia. Hakim, who was born in Afghanistan and immigrated to Australia as a child, is the first international journalist to interview the surviving witnesses. She said American investigators tried to prevent her from interviewing the children, saying her questions could traumatize them. She said she appealed to village leaders, who arranged for her to interview the witnesses.
Watch the SBS Dateline video "US alerted over Bales behaviour"
In the video, the children told Hakim that other Americans were present during the rampage, holding flashlights in the yard.
Noorbinak, 8, told Hakim that the shooter first shot her father’s dog. Then, Noorbinak said in the video, he shot her father in the foot and dragged her mother by the hair. When her father started screaming, he shot her father, the child says. Then he turned the gun on Noorbinak and shot her in the leg.
“One man entered the room and the others were standing in the yard, holding lights,” Noorbinak said in the video.
A brother of one victim told Hakim that his brother’s children mentioned more than one soldier wearing a headlamp. They also had lights at the end of their guns, he said.
“They don’t know whether there were 15 or 20, however many there were,” he said in the video.
Army officials have repeatedly denied that others were involved in the massacre, emphasizing that Bales acted alone.
Obama: Afghan shooting rampage was work of lone gunman
Bales, who was flown to a maximum-security military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kan., was charged last week with 17 counts of murder and six attempts of attempted murder.
Staff Sgt. Bales charged with 17 counts of murder in Afghanistan massacre
The massacre came several days after a roadside bomb attack that cost one soldier his leg. Village residents told reporters and Afghan government officials that after the roadside bomb attack, U.S. troops lined up men from the village against a wall and told them they would pay a price. The Pentagon has denied those allegations.
Pentagon: No evidence that Afghan massacre was a retaliation
Gen. Karimi, assigned by Afghan President Hamid Karzai to investigate the murders, told Hakim that he, too, wonders whether Bales acted alone and how he could left the base without notice.
“Village elders said several soldiers took part and that there is boot prints in the area,” Karimi told Hakim. He said villagers told him that they saw three or four individuals kneeling and that helicopters were overhead during the rampage.
“To search for him?” Karimi said he asked them.
“No,” he said they told him. “They were there from the very beginning.”
More from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- US soldier dies saving Afghan girl
- Tiger attacks conservationist John Varty at South Africa wildlife park
- 14 dead in prison riot in Honduras
- Spanish workers strike against labor reforms
Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
So wait a minute...the Army's insisting that Bales was alone, yet a survivor is saying that others were with him...?
I knew something stunk from when this incident first made the news, but if other soldiers were involved, then we're going to have a serious problem here.
If what the witness is saying is true, (keep in mind that there could be others), then the Army's got some serious explaining to do as to why they're trying to pin it all on Bales.
I already had a feeling that the military wanted this matter closed, and fast. That's NEVER a good sign in ANY investigation. Yes, a case should be closed as soon as it's received, but it shouldn't be rushed to close THIS fast, as we're seeing.
Like JFK right?
Ballistics should confirm, or debunk, this pretty easily.
Afghanis wash and bury the dead immediatley so I dought ther is any forensic evidence left.
This is starting to sound a lot like the massacre at Haditha. Soldiers taking revenge on innocent civilians for comrades injured in a roadside bombing. We saw where that one went. Same place this one is going. That's probably why they want to stress a one man shooter scenario as it's starting to not be isolated incidents.
Ah jak, there wasn't really nothing left to wash and bury.He or they or whatever,stack them up like fire wood and burn them.What's left to wash?
Isn't that convenient, jak? They bury solid evidence and then use the brainwashed kids to peddle their story. I'm not buying it. They're culture is backwards and completely f-cked. I question why were are still there every day.
They are trying to pin this on Bales only because he has a shady past and this is the only way they might get away with it. Other soldiers probably had very clean records and it just wouldn't look good for the war effort in Afghanistan but this is very convenient to blame on one "nut".
The other shooters were Taliban!!! Bales did the first village, the Taliban did the rest.
Did you ever try to see who was behind the flashlight in the dark of night? Several flashlights, dark of night, Taliban in U.S. uniforms, with U.S. weapons...no confusion there! No villager tried to fight back? Not one villager tried to shoot back? No weapons in the village...BULL.
Villagers knew it was Taliban and there was no way they were going to take on the Taliban!!!
Yeah oldotto2, there was lots of evidence of that scenario! Don't try to make up B.S. to cover for our soldiers' screw-ups. I tend to believe it is a U.S. government cover up more than anything else... say whatever is necessary and convenient to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible. I really, really trust our government to enlighten us with the truth on these matters!
Unfortunately, I would put just as much stock in the "eyewitness" accounts as the military has. People in that part of the world are well known to accept conspiracy theory over raw fact. Many in the region doubt 9/11 happened, many doubt the Holocaust happened, then something terrible like this happens and suddenly everyone's seeing black helicopters and multiple flashlights and boot prints. Even the Afghan president is "sure" that more than one shooter was involved. Add to that milieu the fact that these eyewitnesses are almost certainly greatly influenced by an incredible fear of the Taliban and you have a perfect environment for the tinfoil hats to flourish.
The facts that the military lawyers have will come out to the public during the trial of this madman. In this case I would trust those facts, limited as they probably are under the circumstances, far more than eyewitness testimony due to the fact that the multiple crime scenes themselves probably could not be investigated by a proper investigative team using proper techniques and procedure.
And no, I don't count a half dozen Afghan police officers coming on scene hours after the murders occurred as a proper team using proper techniques. The scenes had already been completely tainted by throngs of onlookers who gathered long before the police showed up.
How do you shoot 6 people consecutively in their sleep? Wouldn't the other 5 wake up pretty damn abruptly after hearing that first gunshot?
WilliamJenkins III,
People from this culture love their children just as much as Americans love theirs. The children were not "Brainwashed" as you state. Just because you only know how to profile does not make your comments real. The traumatized children are telling what they remember from the incident, not anything they were programed to say.
It seems that this was a well-organized raid by a number of soldiers who were following orders to attack a compound of Afghan residents who were thought to be harboring Taliban militants. It doesn't make sense that one person could cause all these deaths as it seems to be planned. Then, one man is singled out for being the attacker. This is just another reason why the "war on terrorism" is failing in Afghanistan.
On the other hand, we're totally avoiding the issue of the Muslim psychiatrist in our military who murdered 13 soldiers and injured many more at the Fort Hood Army base in Texas a few years ago. He's being secluded as nothing is mentioned about trying him for his crimes as he was in contact with Islamic militants abroad.
This just goes to show how religion, politics and profits control the actions of those who are being used to bring power to those who profit from wars.
Usually, in these incidents, the military make one bad guy and all shoot him/her from different directions!
It was most foolish to deploy Sgt Bales, who was deployed thrice in Iraq and badly injured, in Afghanistan.
Most foolish of all was that George Bush, Jr and company who jumped into 2003 Iraqi war without stabilizing Afghan battle fronts!
And they tell them so as they're strapping a suicide vest on them.
Gullible fools! One dumb reporter writes a bunch of garbage and you jump on line. ("because the children said so")LMAO
ok, i admit this whole thing stunk from the start when i heard he not only left the base undetected, but returned, and then left again, my guess to get more ammo, but to leave, and head another direction?
there is only 1 thing that will tell who is telling the truth in this case.... time. we are talking one man, on foot. taveling so far. killing X=amount of people, and stacking their bodies. then burning them, to what would be the fastest 1 man such as him could attempt such a feat. and you get the rest. there was a lot of miles covered by this guy on foot, in a very short amount of time. Then take into account, the victims just so happen on a random spree, kills an entire elders family?
this wasnt the first time we heard of this either there being more than one person, and it was more like a squad, but the military said what? impossible. would this guy or anyone involved have a good amount of blood on them from the victims as well? by now, it would have been destroyed is my guess.
Time to get serious, if their was a cover-up, this time we have to start digging out the Treason book, we doing a lot of dancing on thin ice with our assassin policies......
Was he wearing a hoddie?
The shell casings would also show if there was one gun or several.
I might have been quicker to believe this, had the "witness" come forward earlier on in the ordeal. Unfortunately the possibility for a tainted testimony will be significant enough, that he will probably be overlooked as a reliable witness. If it becomes known that his story was dismissed earlier on, despite a media frenzy looking for witnesses, then it certainly deserves much thought.
Knowing whether his testimony is tainted or not can be a tricky affair, as a simple polygraph is not as reliable when used on them. Perhaps other investigative means can be used to authenticate his witnessing the tragedy.
Shell casings (if any were collected) could prove if more than one gun was used, however, using it to include who the other accomplices were would be hard pressed. Even using them to prove more than one exact gun was used might prove tricky considering they would all be the same style weapon, the same caliber, and even the same ammo. The only marks to go off would be the extractor/ ejector, perhaps any feed ramp marks unique to one specific gun and the firing pin impression. Considering they would all be the same, ballistics would be almost worthless. Besides the fact that it occurred in a region with practically no sense of crime scene preservation likely occurring before Military investigators arrived.
The variables are too great, unless someone turns themselves in, or unless interrogation produces another name it his highly unlikely that any of these things will produce any additional suspects. Especially if the current perpetrator claims he did it by himself.
And of course, all of the above is going on believing the child is telling the truth, and a non-tainted testimony. I hate to be pessimistic, but I am merely being realistic, and am not representing bias of any angle involved. If indeed, he has just now came forward, there are simply too many variables in play, unless there is another turn of events in way of already collected evidence. The child might not have an agenda to accomplish and could be telling the truth as he remembers it, however, it would certainly aid in the distrust of American soldiers, which would benefit many other's agenda.
@Private The Afghani witnesses said the same thing right after it happened. Have you not been following this story?
@RYU Yes, the army's scenario stunk from the get go. The Afghani witnesses said immediately after it happened that there was more than one soldier there that night and it was people other than children.
After the burning of the Koran incident, the US was already treading on thin ice with the Afghans. Imagine the uproar that would happen if they found out that this was several soldiers that participated in this massacre? By the miltary blaming it on one rogue soldier, it's a heck of a lot less of a publicity nightmare.
I wonder what kind of deal they made with Bales to get him to buy into that scenario? I hope that eventually Bale comes to his senses and tell what he knows. He shouldn't be the only one to take the fall for this.
The whole story from the beginning to now stinks....Both side are wrong I bet.
Tiger's the Man
I've been posting "skepticism" since the story broke... it's not like the military hasn't spun the stories before. They investigate themselves, which is suspect to begin with. We should still at least be skeptical.
Shell casings? I didn't think the childrens' accounts of what happened refuted that there was one shooter. They just said others were present.
My bet is that there are adult witnesses that could confirm or deny the numbers of soldiers involved... at least one versus many. But after seeing their neighbors slaughtered, who would speak up?
Be skeptical.
Wow. An American soldier or soldiers brutally murdered children and innocent adults and you have the nerve to call THEM backwards?
According to our standards they are. They are more upset about burnt books than the loss of human lives. I don't know where you live, but in my country that's backwards.
Honestly, who would actually buy into the allegations that the Taliban staged this to discredit our military? What would the point of that be? Here's another theory, the Taliban conspired with insiders - Afghans working inside the military complex - to target one soldier, befriend that soldier enough to gain some trust, drug that soldier, perform these murders while planting that soldier outside the gates where he could "conveniently" be found by our search party. For those too dense to catch it, the first two sentences were strictly sarcasm, the last strictly speculation I'm sure will spark some interesting rebuttals. Let the liberal dogma commence....
Obviously you don't live in the bible belt. Try going to Florida or Mississippi and burning the Bible and see what happens....... and they most likely are in your country
This is what they always do - insist it was a "isolated incident" from someone who was "crazy", to avoid taking responsibility for a systemic problem - the dehumanization of the Afghan people.
@descrs, Until it hs been proven, don't spout crap about our soldiers screwing up. Have you been in the military? I don't buy the story, either side. What I do buy is that our all volunteer military is pushed to the limit and spread so thin that it is very unlikely we could repel a direct attack on our home land. Two reasons for this, first: Congress, to balance the budget, is constantly raping our military budget and personnel strength. second: Cowards, who hide behind internet postings and the bill of rights these brave volunteers put their lives on the line to protect, aren't volunteering. Personally, and I know for a fact that the vast majority of the military, would rather you just say thank you, shut the hell up and keep moving. And yes, I am military, my son is military, my father and his, etc. etc.etc. You are welcome, please see my advice above!
Many of you so quick to believe Afghans, so fast to judge Americans. If you know anything about this war you would understand the possibilty for disinfomation being served up by people sympathetic to, and/or threatened by, the Taliban is very very high.
This was a horrible incident to be sure but let it run it's course. Don't judge things you don't understand but if you really want to judge something, judge the soldier that just died saving one little Afghan girls life just the other day. She's alive today because of him. He's dead. Just one of many similar, positive actions performed by US or NATO military personnel that don't get the press they deserve.
Nope, just the bad stuff. What is wrong with you people?
Sounds like the military found the people who shot the US soldiers in retaliation of the Koran burnings. The military wanted their own retaliation, and then tried to pin in on a wayward soldier.
Could also be a raid on Taliban leaders gone wrong. Wrong house, wrong town, etc.. So the miltary went into cover up mode.
You people who are saying ballistics would clear it up didn't read the article very well.
The children did not say that there was more than one soldier doing the shooting, they said there were other soldiers WITH the one who did the shooting. The other soldiers were standing guard outside and holding flashlights.
Pay attention to what's written and quit making up your own story.
This is getting a bit too Vietnam.
villagers support and hide enemy, soldier/soldiers crack and take vengeance on the villagers. let's face it, these villagers are not the innocent victims they try to portray themselves to be. wake up, they are aiding and abetting the enemy. those that aren't should try helping for once instead of keeping their mouths shut and then crying when things go horribly wrong.
i am not excusing his actions, just saying it's set up for this sort of thing to happen.
WOW...im buying stock right now in Reynolds foil. With all you tin hatties out there i should be rich in no time!!
Sgt Bales attornies are being denied chances to interview witnesses by the army and being stonewalled in this investigation. If you want the real truth to come outdo what I did. Contact your representative especially if he is armed services committee. I sent put a comment on the blog of the Texas representative and e-mailed a senator. Let them know we won't stand for a coverup.
Todd,
Go suck an egg... I am not naive enough to think that every member of the armed forces is a good guy... I don't give a crap what they do for a living! And quite frankly, I don't even want members of the service over there fighting at all if they think it is okay to go into homes of villagers and shoot their kids! I owe these soldiers not a damned thing!!! I personally think there are some soldiers who are very inhumane and choose this work because they want to kill people!!! I worked for the Department of the Army for 13 years and my husband is retired military. He and I both KNOW there are some really screwed up GIs. So take your "I owe him my life" crap somewhere else. TO all of you soldiers who represent this country and fight "for" this country, thank you for your service and dedication. Bales can go to hell for all I care.
I live in Florida we burn bibles to stay warm in the winters down here!
No we don't
I've always knew that it was more than one person. In a war zone you just can't walk off a base alone, because he would be a sitting target for crooks or terrorists and Taliban that would want him for propaganda purposes. The enemy always look for lone soldiers for that. He had to have left the base in squad strength or more. The reason why they are trying to end this quickly is because the don't want another Me li masscre on their hands.
There is also the possibility that the children are just saying what their parents told them to say. And if so they are possibly being threatened by the Taliban.
They would not need Bales to go along with it. As I was saying before I feel he may have been drugged. There were reports of him laying motionless in a field near the base. I had read a few accounts of this....one account had him laying there motionless several minutes and another report had him laying there for an hour or more. This was seen by an observation blimp. Being drugged would also go along with Bales account of not remembering anything
"Four Hours in My Lai" excellent Read!
After the Massacre in My Lai the investigation started showing similar scenarios in other Villages in the area. The US Army shut down the investigation and went after one low level officer.
This a guerrilla war, a war of attrition the entire populace is seen as possible enemy it is impossible to avoid this kind of mind set when you cannot see the enemy. The idea that units will not act out to avenge their dead and wounded brothers in horrific and "illegal" ways is just stupid.
It is time to get out of Afghanistan! Any further engagement by the US Military forces only makes us more enemies in an unstable populace.
The problem with this is that eye-witnesses can't be trusted in this instance especially. Since this happened the Taliban has made it known that they won't accept that Bales acted alone, it would definitely not be difficult to scare people, especially children into saying anything they want them to. Bales may have had an accomplice, but we can't trust this witness.
The president in Afghanistan also wanted an explanation, and even said some years back that he wanted US forces out of the country.
Whether or not the witness can be trusted, in ANY investigation, you'll need other witnesses to corroborate what this one said. If accounts are true, then we've got a problem here. If the accounts aren't, then we move on.
As I said, something about all of this stunk from day one. The media and military officials are trying to make this case appear cut-and-dry, but for those that have a keen eye, they will notice a few...anomalies, for lack of a better term.
Can we trust our government?
Can you trust a lying population that sides with the Taliban if they were promised money, food?
Also think about this...night raids are DIRECT ACTION by special operations units and are done at night due to the fact that US army personnel wear NVGs, and do not need headlamps or flashlights.
Please dont add to the negative vomit being spewed around because someone who has something to gain says there were more Americans.
Memories during a trauma, and especially one that abruptly wakes a person from sleep can be sketchy. Not discounting the witness completely, but helicopters overhead and a squad of soldiers to kill women and children? I think the Army would have made up an excuse other than a single soldier on a rampage...like saying they got "bad intel on a raid on a suspected Taliban's house" or something.
And good point...I've never used a flashlight, or at least not one without a red or blue lens.
lonereb NO! I smell a deep dark evil cover up going on here! Can anyone say War Crimes,and Crimes against Humanity
Only this time it's not a foreign country,it's the United States of America!
Kinda brings to mind the Mai Lai Masacer about 40 yrs ago, another Stupid that the US Army pulled in Viet Nam!
Let's see now!
First there was just one guy....ahh, but wait, as that ended up being two...ummm, no, ahhh....now there's 15 to 20, and ah, oh, yes.....let's not forget that helicopter as well. Next, there will be a few humvee's, and a couple of APC's with the usual Abrams tank, or two. Lemme think, now.....geeeez, I forgot about all those guys floating down in parachutes, so...... [gimme that calculator]...um, I think, for the moment, the number we kids remember, is close to, oh...... 38 to maybe...ahh...113? OK, maybe only 109. Yeah, that's the ticket!
I hope you're not gonna ask me to repeat this, again....as my memory is a little fuzzy about that night...since it was waaay past my bedtime.
Right!!
Forgive the Crappy Spelling
Hey duuug could you repeat that again please?Ya kinda lost me!
hi- remember Pat Tillman?? gives up multimillion pro football career to enlist in 3rd rangers with his brother. Goes to Afghanistan is killed by friendly fire, and military says he was KIA for PR purpose?? His family got the truth out to the American people, do not believe 1 word from these jag bags. No way this guy acted alone. Ex-11B
duug: Other than this one report from a Dateline investigator, who's been generating all the other "reports"; the U.S. government perhaps?
As a vet of Afghanistan Riley is pretty right with any direct night raids. We did use lights at times, but not in raids just patrols. Any raids were done fast, And with a lot more then just even 2-3 people. And I am not about to say that there were 15-20 soldiers who all happend to be crazy enough to kill o a mass murder scale like that. I met some head cases. But they were still good people. And to think multiple people got together and had some mass raid is something I can't accept. I can understand 1 maybe even "possibly" 2 going off the edge. 15-20 tells me this is the bad guys making sure that propaganda is all over. Smart move just cause it will make people question. But people that have served will tell you that whatever fantasies or movies you have 15-20 people dont just leave base and wipe out a village and most criminal cases are mall groups or individuals that may have just been in a firefight or lost someone and sadly go off. And they would do it and try and make it look like an accident with a throw weapon or something. 15+ with chops just going to wipe a village. Give your soldiers more credit then that whatever your thoughts of the war. ROE was hard enough against legit targets
This is obviously one of those stories that no general public, either our side or theirs, will ever fully know the truth to, but adding to what tw1sted said: I was thinking as I was reading this that maybe if there were multiple soldiers going into it, that not all of them were off the deep end enough to think they were actually going to go as far as it went.
Since they mention things like shootings in the feet and legs, maybe some of them agreed to a plan more along the lines of "scaring the sh*t out of these people" in retaliation of what happened, a show of strength if you will, instead of going all out and mass murdering. Again it's just guesses, but I think 15-20 men committing this is just as far fetched as 1 man doing it all solo.
tw1sted: You must not be old enough to recall the My Lai Massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
It is difficult for one soldier to act alone!
In Afghanistan and battle zones, whom do you trust?
Jimmythegent1972- I agree with you but Pat was a part of 2nd Battalion 75th Regiments Ranger not 3rd Bat!
It's not impossible for one guy to do it. Nidal Hassan killed 13 soldiers and wounded 29 others in broad daylight. In the middle of the night women and children would not be hard to kill.
Unless proved otherwise, the evidence seems to show only 1 shooter so far. These eye witnesses were so scared they could have thought more were outside but they never say they saw anymore than 1 enter.
I don't trust Afghan witnesses. On day 1 the kids said only 1 shooter appeared yet the parents and the rest of the Afghans said "how could only 1" kill so many. I think the kids got talked into saying there were more than 1 because they can't believe just 1 guy did it, but it's possible.
I don't trust an army whose soldiers murder civilians.
Now nobody really knows anymore what happened that night these people were killed, now they start gessing and scare the hell out of these kids.
F Walsh
The COMPLETE problem with this is that the military is investigating themselves... THEY and the Taliban have "conflict of interest" stakes in what determining what happened to the point that neither is completely credible.
Let's say it was many versus just one. This would be consistenty with only finding children willing to come forward. This would be more believable in terms of how many were killed.
The "one killer" story is difficult to swallow and a bit too convenient and the stories from these kids doesn't make it any easier for us.
Here's what I think happened:
I think the Afghani's are telling the truth about our soldiers lining them up against a wall and telling them they were going to pay.
I think a gang of rogue soldiers murdered those people.
I think Bales was the only one in the gang who couldn't live with what he did.
I think he was unwilling to incriminate any of the other soldiers, so admitted only to his own guilt.
Waterboard this coward until he gives up his accomplices.
F Walsh So you think the Taliban shot this child and her parents? Or do you just want to believe what our government says, no matter if it makes sense or not?
PJ-1795048 This war has NOTHING to do with God, but everything to do with politics!
Speculation by morons contributes nothing to this article.
Just like in the Martin-Zimmerman "rush to judgment racism brigade," I think there's much more to the real story with the Bates-massacre in Afghanistan.
It's been bulled over to the media, and yes, Westerners are at a huge disadvantage in Afghanistan already (well beyond public relations issues).
What first ticked off my "yeah, bullsh*t" response was when accounts said that Bates "snuck out at 3 or 4 am to the civilian locale"...really? In war zone a US solider is a phantom coming and going from your own camp? And, even more preposterous, is that the report states Bates CAME BACK into camp...and "left unnoticed a SECOND TIME."
hmmmm
The cover up goes all the way to the top.
Can we trust a lying ex-president that would take us to war for 10+ years to fight men on donkeys and expect We the People to believe that the US couldn't 'accomplish' the mission sooner. The reason it is taking so long is because the pipeline from Turkmenistan, through Pakistan, Afghanistan and finally India has not been completed yet. As soon as it is done in 2014 all troops will be pulled out and pipeline security will be accomplished by patrolling drones. Until then US military will concentrate all its efforts in keeping the Taliban pinned in the northern mountain ranges.
And coincidently, neither do you.
(why even comment on forums if you feel that way anyhow? None of us were there, as with any other news story, so that's all we're here for is to share speculation and opinions)
This kids story does not make sense. US soldiers conducting a night raid do not wear headlamps and have flashlights attached to their guns. They wear NVGs so that they can remain undetected as much as possible while still being able to see what is going on around them. Soldiers trying to sneak up and kill people do not announce their presence by shining flashlights around and making targets out of themselves. What the kid probably saw was other locals out looking around in response to the gunfire.
Yea, the US military was honest and forthcoming about Pat Tillman too weren't they?
I agree 100% with JS in SD. Flashlights attached to their guns? headlamps? Ask yourselves why soldiers would make themselves easy targets like that. It's not that I trust the government's version of events but why is everyone so quick to believe children or even adults who may have something to gain from it? To have a conpiracy, you'd have to include a lot of people in this case...including gate guards, the other "20-30" soldiers, etc. We're quick to take the opposing version but yet that one doesn't even make sense.
Why believe the government and military who have lied to you before? They have lied and deceived, and yet people will turn around and believe from the same sources who have lied to us before with out question. That is the definition of sheeple. I think our forefathers expected us to question the government at every turn. It's the only chance we have.
Buzz, I caught myself wondering if the lights on the guns were perhaps a laser light? You know, a scope light? Or didn't they do that?
I was in high school during the My Lai Massacre. over 200 people were killed. My future husband at the time, was an MP in Chu Lai vietnam,, and protected Lt. Calley when he went back to Vietnam looking for witnesses. My now ex husband said that lt. Calley was a very nice guy. Huh? I always questioned that. Was it his natural character to kill all those people, or was it the events of a war?
I served 10 years in the ARMY was in Iraq and held the Rank of SSG. I find it very hard that a E-6/SSG made it off base threw gate guards and then back with out notice. This kinda thing does not happen. He did not act alone and neither story from either side makes any sense. I agree a third party investigation should be conducted, maybe the United Nations should apoint a panel to investigate.
I totally agree with you, even before leaving Kuwait we were on a buddy program (He takes a crap, you take a crap) no way are you ever allowed to just casually leave the FOB even if its in the green zone. Unless your JSOC your limited to what you can do. Also they metioned he was drunk, not saying it couldn't happen but how did he get alcohol? I believe thats contraband under the UCMJ.
This is a war people. We should kill them into submission. They kill one of us, we kill 200 of them. Thats how you win a war. If they really want to win this war, go balls out and do it. If not get the f<>k out. You can't fight a war from a desk in the pentagon. Bush #1 killed how many fleeing troops? He still walking around free.
This is not a war but a criminal action. We are in their country for over a decade, hunting supposedly ONE MAN (OBL), and couldn't get the job done. Talk about incompetency. Now that we finally got our man, can we go home. On the way out, please publish the pictures and DNA of the dead man we paid so dearly for.
bush 2 and dick would be in jail If I were president. They lied us into wars for economic reasons and not for USA security reasons.
I feel so deeply for the Afghan people. The Taliban likely forces them to hide them under threat of death and torture. If they hide the Taliban, then they are targeted as conspirators, apparently unofficially by soldiers who have had friends harmed or killed by the Taliban. They cannot win. The children are completely innocent victims of adults on both sides. However, the only positive note is that this happens rarely, which speaks to the good character of the American troops caught up in a big mess. I think American troops are more likely to risk their lives trying to protect innocent children, then harm them in any way. This is in grave contrast to the Taliban that murders and tortures children and women at whim.
I am SO sick of people cheering on war crimes, like "wornout" above. I just shows that he/she knows NOTHING of combat operations. As you can see killing women and children increases or reinvigorates their resolve to fight, not to mention the war is in THEIR homeland. I really don't understand people who say such things. Was there any thought that went into that statement, or is it just the logorrhea flowing to the fingertips?
I can't say with any confidence say that this was the act of a single man, but at this point that's where the information is leading us. Someone says above that one guy couldn't get through the gate unauthorized...so why would you think a squad sized element could? The flashlights and helicopters don't make alot of sense. There's so much concern about a conspiracy people have forgotten that someone (NOT a "kid" as someone mentioned above, but a grown 38 year old staff sergeant in the U.S. Army who was a 3 tour combat veteran...) committed an atrocity. I just hope that this doesn't get swept under the rug like Haditha, and the other cases of seemingly obvious war crimes.
isn't it amazing the uproar you can get from a good old-fashioned firing squad on unarmed civilians versus killing them with remote controlled aircraft
I smell a cover-up.
All in the name of God and Country.
Rather unnerving (as a Christian) to know, for example, the Marines view the priority as "corps, God, country."
Understandable; but compromising yourself as a Christian.
Have you ever considered that not everyone is a Christian?
Please...you read the "children's" accounts and they sound a bit too fantastical to me. But typical of children and their need to impress adults by fabricating facts. I am reminded of the stories of fairly young children who testified in the North Carolina child-care sex scandal. They made up stories then too of how "Mr. Bob took them on a boat and was feeding some to sharks and another child (4 yrs old) had to save another one in the water". This is no cover up. This is children being fed lies and impressing adults with crazy stories.
Bales acted alone and was psychologically scarred by a stupid war.
It does sound like a coverup to me too. Of course, the USA has an absolutely clean slate as far as coverups are concerned. Personally, I only believe 25% of what the USA government says and of that I think 100% is distorted. I think the only fair and, hopefully, impartial investigation should be by a 3rd party such as the UN out of Geneva or Vienna.
Also, what does being a Christian or not have to do with the heinousness of killing children. I could see, at least some logic, in retaliating against adults, but never children.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if this were true. A unit that was upset over a roadside bomb... threatening people and swearing revenge.. then taking it. Bales makes a good patsy to take all the heat. The military's version of events doesn't make sense. Especially now saying that he returned to the base and then left again. In a remote location, it wouldn't be beyond reason to think that there were many involved.. and aircraft involved. Maybe they really thought they could get away with it.
"Whether or not the witness can be trusted, in ANY investigation, you'll need other witnesses to corroborate what this one said. If accounts are true, then we've got a problem here. If the accounts aren't, then we move on."
The problem with your logic and trying to enforce justice in general is that we are talking about a country with very weak rule of law. In the US it is relatively difficult for a fringe fraction (like the Taliban) to both threaten and make good on threats to murder a witness's entire family if they do not cooperate. In Afghanistan, on the other hand, there is no such level of safety. Literally a dozen witnesses could all agree 100% and it could mean nothing because they have all been threatened and perceive that threat to be very real.
Flawed or not, the point is, the military investigators still need to invesigate all witness accounts. If several witnesses say the same thing, then there's no reason to not believe them. If the Taliban is involved, then they're doing one hell of a job.
Also, witness tampering isn't something that happens only in other countries. Police, local and federal, here in the US are also guilty of witness tampering at one point.
So I guess the question we must all ask ourselves, and eachother, is; do we accept the military's version of events at face value, or do we explore the possibility that there's more than what we know?
Sounds like a reasonable story, except that an Afghan guard at his base saw Bales return alone. Of course, he could be in on the plan, but then why make Bales the scapegoat. Or did they draw straws to take one for the gipper? Nah.
If you think about it, if an AWOL soldier was spotted RETURNING to the base he initially left, wouldn't protocol say that he be DETAINED and questioned about WHY he left and where he had gone?
Not sure how, or why, a soldier could leave a base, not once, but TWICE.
I think there was bad reporting on this story, Ryu.
I saw an article that even stated "On March 11, an Afghan soldier at the camp first noticed Bales was AWOL".
The problem with that is you don't "first notice someone is AWOL". You are "missing" and not AWOL until you have been missing for 24 hours. Since the massacre happened on the night of the same day he was noticed missing, he was not officially listed as AWOL.
This mistake typically happens because civilians confuse missing with being AWOL.
If he wasn't AWOL, he probably wasn't on any list to be detained at the gate.
First Ryu, it's very easy to leave without being noticed if you're located at a combat outpost. They are nothing like a normal FOB, not even close. Now I don't know where every combat outpost is so he could have been at one or not but even at a FOB it's relatively easy to sneak out. It just requires a bit more opportunistic timing or good planning.
Secondly, He wasn't AWOL. As per the UCMJ you're not considered AWOL until 72 hours after the first formation in which you were not present. Prior to that you are listed as out of ranks. Now, if you return then leave again the clock resets and the 72 hours start over again.
This is so obviously a cover up. Bales only had two hours to do all of this, he wouldn't have time to pick up all the ammunition that was used, so where is the physical evidence? I bet there are several piles of ammunition with multiple fingerprints on them. If children say there were more soldiers, there probably were. The fact is no one has any definitive information, and it's because we do a piss poor job of police work. I don't believe this story has enough attention covering it. Pretty soon you will see soldiers in his unit, bales himself, and others involved dropping like flies.
police work? they "investigate" themselves and they all follow orders and obey the chain of command. if they are ordered to say one guy did it then one guy did it, you know?
did they have on hoody's...
Young children are LOUSY witnesses. Google the travesty of justice at the "Fells Acres Day Care Center" and learn something.
Children are VERY impressionable. They think and act like children, not adults. You might think you are getting the truth out of them, but you're getting what you're leading them to by your questioning.
The funny thing is, they'll actually believe it is true...even if it isn't. They are that impressionable! You can mess them up for life in the process.
At times though, children have been the ONLY witnesses to a crime, so what are investigators to do? Disregard EVERYTHING they have to say about a crime simply because they are children?
Tough calls have to be made in every investigation, military or not. If the military didn't interview the children at all to get THEIR sides of the story, then there's reason to believe that things aren't what the military's trying to present.
Only thing any of us can do is just wait and see what transpires.
It is a tough call with children. Children are terrible witnesses...especially to traumatic things.
You don't want someone to get locked away for many years because an 8 year old was led to believe they saw something they didn't...which is a real concern. The longer the time goes by, the more likely they are to believe in something completely different than what really happened.
"Footprints everywhere" is not surprising. I was on guard duty and was amazed at how many footprints your boots leave on the ground in short time if you are walking around. It was so many I actually noticed it...
The easiest way to determine if there were more than one soldier would obviously be checking out the bullets. If the ballistic fingerprints are different, there was more than one shooter. Why rely on unreliable witnesses when you have solid evidence in those bullets?
Don't hold your breath!
WJ why are they unreliable? because you say so?
Eyewitnesses have been shown in study after study to be almost completely unreliable. There is a case of a woman who was raped who misidentified a man in a line up. He was convicted and sentenced for life. Years later he was proven innocent. The woman who accused him and the man subsequently became friends and now campaign against using eyewitness testimony. It is completely worthless.
How about we throw into the mix completely different languages - local dialects even - and completely different cultures/values etc. Plus a little extreme trauma at close range vs "seeing a bank robber run by"... this whole situation is up for grabs, just like the country. We'll never know what really happened and I for one don't care let's GTFO so it won't happen again.
Get the hell out of that country ASAP then things like this won't happen anymore. the Taliban will take care of this part.
I agree that kids are terrible witnesses. We may never be able to find out exactly what happened because it sounds like forensic work at the site was minimal due to security issues.
I've watched my kids do something right in front of me, and then I point out what they did, and they'll swear it never happened--while I was standing right there. And I'm sure that kids in these circumstances, living difficult lives and suffering constant trauma of war, are less reliable than usual. I don't think kids always lie by any means, but I do think that there are certainly times when they are not accurately describing (or understanding) what happened, for a whole host of reasons.
The Afghan soldiers on duty that night saw only one soldier going out and coming back (twice), and I can't imagine why they would lie if they saw a bunch leaving.
I may not trust our government a whole lot, but I trust them more than I trust a child who views us as the antichrist. Or a journalist who is playing detective.
How about you spend your time reporting on something positive? Bales did a messed up thing, we get that. But there is no way to prove that a brainwashed child has their facts straight, in fact, it is very unlikely.
How about this story, one that is undisputedly accurate, about a TRUE American Hero. Why isn't this story making headlines and turning heads?
Our soldiers deserve more credit than they are given, especially when one of the thousands deployed makes a wrong decision. Weichel didn't have to lay down his life, but he did. Take a step back and think of what's truly more important. Praising those who sacrifice everything, spend time away from their families to make our country a better, safer place... or one man who made a selfish act that potentially jeopardizes every other soldier?
Thank you, Weichel for what you did. I wish all the reporters saw that you are a far more worthy story than Bales... what a disappointment
Small children are not reliable witnesses because they will try to please the adults that are questioning them by telling the adults what they think they want to hear. This is not to say the child is maliciously lying about it, just doing what they think they're supposed to.
There's so much about this dreadful event that's unknown. And contradictory. I find it hard to believe that one man could leave the base twice, commit these horrible acts and not be missed until his second return.
But 15-20 men? With 'flashlights' on their guns? And a helicopter overhead? That smacks of someone asking the child 'didn't you see this? Sure you did, tell me about all of the men there.'
I hope that someday the truth is known and justice is served for the murdered villagers. But I also hope that one man isn't made the scapegoat for something he may or may not be responsible for.
daycare? this is an 8yo who was shot, I think their account should be given more consideration than a toddler asked about sexual abuse not that that isn't important, it just isn't relevant
This was a war crime committed by a significant number of U.S. soldiers, as well as probably a few officers. They should all be executed for war crimes.
and dont forget the one in charge of the military, the commander in chief, he is responsible for every action of every soldier, remember milosivic, WAR CRIMES carried out by his soldiers, same here
Why don't you change your name? You are a traitor to your country. You would have believed Goebbels and Tokyo Rose over American and British sources during WW2. Do you have a red flag with a hammer and sickel hanging up in your room, too? How much time do you have on the ground in Afghanistan? Tried working with any? I have, two deployments there. You cannot trust what an Afghan says, they will lie in a heartbeat if they think that will get them out of an uncomfortable situation. Their sense of morals and values are diametrically different from western values. I have no doubt they are lying to gain whatever advantage they think they can get, I dealt with that on a regular basis when I was working with Afghans. An incident I personally dealt with- a bunch of Afghan policemen came into our FOB with several wounded. We were treating the wounded at our aid station and asking what had happened; they claimed that Taliban had conducted a driveby attack on their outpost. The injuries were not consistent with the MOI they claimed. Turns out they were wounded when an IED they were assembling at the police checkpoint went off. They said they were going to claim they had found it so they could claim the reward. One problem- because they were Afghan security forces they were not eligible to claim a reward for doing their job. When we told them that, the ones who weren't wounded became incensed and became very hostile, threatening in Pashtu to shoot Americans if they didn't get paid. We disarmed them kicked them off the camp. In the previous 6 months my unit had 9 IED strikes within 10 kilometers of that checkpoint, and 5 Soldiers were wounded. They were Taliban in the Afghan security forces. I wouldn't trust an Afghan if he told me it was hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
*Yawns*
Wake me when someone other than "mike" posts and there might be something serious to actually consider.
Are most of these people american or non americans here airing out their laundry as americans. Anybody can be anybody here on the net. Some may be Taliban starting trouble. Think before you read.
@Thomas-Paine, where's your proof? You are just adding more crap to the dung pile, read my previous post and feel free to follow the advice given: when talking to or about our military, say thank you, shut the hell up and move on.
Wake up John boy. You are sleeping through the formative part of the lecture but you appear to have stayed awake for the misinformative portion.
if you people think there is another "great war" going on out there you are just dupes for the fatcats who get rich off all this @!$%#
So take a Taliban Child's recount days/weeks later over a SGT in the Army? Yeah, he's guilty, but ffs it's not some army conspiracy. These children have been fed lies about everything in life since they were born. They just regurgitate it.
so you know this child? you know shes Taliban? another moronic statement from...what else, a MORON
@flyerznut: How about you jerk? Do you know she's not?
who is fed lies ?.... the americans . all the time.
This smells a lot like that grassy knoll incident in Dallas in 1963. Single shooter? Bullet that traveled like a rubber worm through both Kennedy and Connolly? One man arrested, then conveniently murdered? How about the U2 incident when Eisenhower said "Yes we lied, but we lied for your own good" in response to the Soviets putting Gary Powers on the boob tube. Our government lying...? Nah!
LMAO, so you got your history from Oliver Stone? You should actually pick up a REAL book, the "magic bullet" was debunked as completely wrong because Stone and others neglected to account for the ACTUAL seat arrangement in the car, the shot has been REPLICATED exactly a couple of times. Pretty much displays how 'intelligent' your analysis is.
We always go back to JFK....the truth may never come out, but the questions are forever. Bales could end up just as dead as Oswald and all we will be left with are endless speculations. The U.S. government lies like a rug.
Really, the story is going to be taken seriously by people who basically hate Americans to start with. The media just loves to bash when possible and bashing will go on. The place should have been leveled a long time ago. Nothing in that region is going to change. America will always be hated. Imagine we are hated so much but people still can't wait to cross the border and suck the life out of us with social programs, etc.
America is the most loved and hated country in the world. Loved, because of the freedoms we have, hated because of the freedoms we have.
It shouldn't be a surprise that other countries, besides those in the Middle East, will bash us for ANY reason. Even the president in Afghanistan, someone WE installed after the previous government fell, demanded that US troops leave and even demanded an explanation of Bales' actions.
the real reason they hate us is not because of our so-called "freedom" it's because we not only injure them, we add insult to it:
It is immoral and lacking in principal to promote "democracy" when it's source is plagued with violence- In the"greatest country on earth" people shouldn't be at each others throats,on top of which 1 in 5 women are violated be their father or other relative,you've people here who suffer because they were born the wrong gender and have their bodies re-assigned, even the most liberal of the founding fathers would call that abominable!!!
American freedom is an illusion that only the Americans believe. Your freedoms are eroding as we speak.
You know, it's hard to say whether or not the child is telling the truth. You have some very corrupt, powerful people over there. Those who will kill you without batting an eyelash, that or they make you watch as they torture your family and then kill them. It's hard to say, maybe there is some truth to the matter.
HELL I believe the kids!
Then you are very gullible.
Really Jon about as gullible as the American people were, when we BULL DOZED into Iraq looking for those, and I believe the excuse was,Oh Yeah,THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
The Delusional Weapons of Mass Destruction that didn't EXIST! Now whose Gullible Jon?
Not me,I smelled horse sh it right from the very beginning, just like I smell horse sh it, with this case.The United States Government lies like a rug!
Naw I'll Believe the believe the kids, they're more Trust Worthy!
True Gloria....better to believe children of a war-torn country than the U.S. government any day of the week.
So the U.S. military, air and land forces, knowingly engaged in a massacre of civilians and didn't kill them all in two villages? And the reward would be? Negative publicity? More propaganda for the enemy? A humiliating trial of a soldier for 16 counts of murder? Afghans killing U.S. soldiers in secure areas? Makes total sense.
Exactly. If this was planned, why would they have left any witnesses, let alone shoot this supposed witness in the leg and leave her to recount this story.
All of a sudden it seems many have forgotten that the Taliban had entire villages acting for them under threat of their families being killed if they didn't cooperate, or the use of children as suicide bombers. Why is it so hard to believe they would not use the same tactics here?
Nobody is saying the government sanctioned this or it was an actual military action or that it was supposed to achieve an end or make sense. They are saying that Bales did not act alone. It defies logic that this one man left, killed multipe sleeping people (nobody woke up) and was able to go back and regroup and go out again to a new location?? No way...he was NOT alone. I think maybe he could not live with what he had done, but he is the only one so far. He needs to watch out, or he won't be living with what he did for very long. A convenient suicide would make this all go away for the government.
A whitewash by the Pentagon and Obama !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SHAME ! SHAME ! SHAME !
Impeach !!!!!!!!!!
Ain't gonna happen,they're to dam good at LYING!
Only a complete moron would think there is ANY chance of impeaching Obama ya obsessive compulsive goof ball
David must you with the name calling?Geeeeeeeeeesus!
David-1023706,
Can you define impeach for me David. Most highly intelligent people can not.
Hint - It does not mean to kick out of office, or to even put them up on civil, or criminal charges.
Yes it means to formally question ....only two presidents have been impeached ....A. Johnson I believe and Clinton .....and at the risk of sounding hypocrticial ......highly intelligent people don't tend to make blanket statements about groups of people
It ridiculous to think that this was some kind of operation supported by helicopters and that Bales agreed to be the fall guy for 20 others involved without ratting on anyone else
Is it Dave?
Yes, sweetie, it is
Yeah honey and you know for sure right?
My 140 IQ and problem solving logic skills says it's a slam dunk no helicopters were involved in some raid. I mean, like , what kind of jerk pilot and Bros would let Bales take the fall? Just for starts
Seems odd that it's easy enough to leave a post when you're drunk without being noticed and the only people who do notice are the Afghanistan military. I would believe there's more to this than what MSNBC knows.
And 5000 people at NASA lied about the moon shot too! They still laugh about it at reunions
Then there are the " scientists" and their dinosaur hoax to "prove" the Earth is older than the Bible says! its all part of the Atheist agenda!
Moving on to the people who lie about global warming and the Earth being round---- and don't forget the bombs planted in the Twin Towers!!
Kooks!
On the towers thing,you forgot to mention building 7 and the 5 people murdered who were witnesses to some of that catastrophy!
Oh and those facts are true! Kooks?Better rethink that one hon!
Ought look at time,Good Night!
Pill time, sweetie, if you are not being facetious and I ain't talking vitamins. You are a little beyond that
Aw honey your so romantic,I know a few wart hogs with the same personality! Naw I ain't beyond the vitamins, and the meds and I don't get along with.
However if you care to indulge,then please,by all means knock yourself out,cutykins.
^ Yep, you're right...building 7 was brought down by controlled demolitions and NOT from an uncontrolled fire that burned for HOURS on end ;)...btw, when you watch video of building 7 collapsing, the collapse starts at the TOP...sorry but you don't bring down a building with explosives starting from the top. Do you know how many people it would take to be involved in such conspiracies? THOUSANDS...and you're telling me every single one of them managed to keep the 'secret'? Dohhhhhhkay. Clinton couldn't even keep Lewinski secret and that involved how many people? 2...
None of this is believable. It's called the "spin machine".
I find it hard to believe a single soldier would (under any mind set) enter a village with known or suspected taliban in area at night to exact revenge or to attack villagers; this goes against anyones survival instincts. I do not want to believe that a group of soldiers would do this; but it is more plausable even if it is a BS claim by some kids from the village, without any evidence to lend some credance to the claim. I do not know if the facts of this incident are any where to be found in what has be stated to date, by any party giving out "the so called" facts of the incident. The army and NATO has a big stake if spinning the facts one way, the villagers have thier own agenda to address with their spin on the deaths of those in village, and we all believe that the Afghan govt. and taliban certainly have their slant as well; the reporter of Afghan decent and now from Aussieland has her slant as well since she is selling a story with a different take than everyone else's so as to get print space. I have my own ideas that have NO FACTS that I did not get from all those printed or talked about in news copy; and I can only make guesses as to what might have gone on and by whom; MY take is that, not only is it nearly impossible to be certain of what took place and by whom, I doubt that the FULL TRUTH WILL EVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY and to make certain of this the public is being spoon fed multiple angles and senerios to make sure no one has to shoulder the complete blame(you can't point finger at multiple targets at same time). The sgt has had so much stuff leaked to press the ground work has been set to give him several different avenues for defense of his "alleged actions". I believe I will wait a bit longer for the "infa-red tape" to surface that the satelite grabbed on the fly over!
That could explain the $50,000 per death payments.
Bales is taking the fall like the best kind of soldier we have. Bring him home, give him a medal, some time off then a good job.
When Muslims kill our civilians, they are heroes at home, we should do the same.
The Geneva convention only works when you fight with honorable people; an enemy will never be that, and it costs American lives.
Wars should not have any rules when everyone else cheats.
Funny, they don't kill our civilians, WE kill our civilians, AND we kill their civilians. If we keep attacking them, then we deserve what we get.
Your god are you honestly suggesting we and not Muslim terrorists were responsible for the 911 attacks?
There is a LOT more to this story than is being told in the press.
How exactly do WE kill our civilians YGIH?
I think there are a couple decapitated civilians that may disagree with you.
Don't worry. Sargent Bales is going to have a nice, long vacation in St. Rapeville with no way out except suicide, being murdered, or natural causes. For the rest of his life, he'll wish he never, never defiled those families or dishonored his country. Hope he spends every single waking moment seeking forgiveness in the limited means available to him for the rest of his days, and if there's an afterlife then he'll need it. Badly.
YourGodinHeaven you trolling immature little boy. all your postings seem to be of you hating free americans. if you have a problem with your own country, you can feel free living else where. i heard afgan is nice at this time of year, please move there and get shot.
John B, California (USA)'s IP does not trace back to the USA ... Would you be suprized if I said it went to the Middle East?
@your God, first, yor screen name proves you are either a complete fool or an arrogant dumbass, your choice. What planet are you living on? Some of us remember 911, some of us remember the decapitation posted live on the web of American civilians, obviously you are trying to perpetrate as an American, post to your own backward country's media dribble and leave ours.
muslim is a religion you @!$%#ing idiot. Afganis don't come to america, set up base, and the attack us in our homes
I think that everybody is getting ahead of theirselves. Nobody knows for sure what happened besides civilians getting killed. The U.S. has already admitted some involvement in that or the families would not have been paid $50,000 per person killed.
The last I read on this the in-country authorities refused to allow the U.S. authorities to even examin the crime scene. There are a lot of questions here that need answers. But we are not going to get them from from the Afganistan authorities because they want to try this guy in their own courts (like that is going to happen).
Am I the only one that thinks we are never going to know the real truth behind this?
I just cannot believe that ANY of you would believe an eight year old child. Let alone an eight year old Afghan child who probably has been 'interviewed' by the taliban. (Gee I wonder what would happen to her family.) If you ask ANY prosecutor (ANY) all eye witness accounts are unreliable - adult or child - 8 or 80! Such a big amount of time has passed I wouldn't believe any of them.
So if you have a child that is 8 years old, and they tell you they have been assaulted, hurt or are being abused you don't believe them? I hope you don't have any children.
I am sure if he had children, he would keep them out of combat. Apples and Oranges........Unless you have been there for more than a few moments, you cannot understand the differences in culture and ways of life in general. By the age of eight, many of them are used by the Taliban in passive ways. It is not the kinder way of life you experience here.
I know what he means, and it is greatly the truth. I DO have two boys, and can tell you up front they lie. Not about things such as abuse, but to other things they have been exposed to, they have and do lie. Unfortunately, this child HAS been exposed to death, terror, and the Taliban by an early age, and as such is perfectly capable of lying, as is any other child.
But what do you do when a child tells you something? You investigate, you question, you look at the facts that line up, and then those which do not. The problem that occurs here, is that the "chain of custody" we have in America, does not exist in the exact same manner in the middle-East. Modern crime labs are wonderful, but they are not as readily available in the sand-box, as they are here. By the time evidence is collected from a scene, first reported by someone other than our own military, there is no telling how many people have walked in and through your crime scene and could have introduced or taken away evidence without even meaning to.
Because of Islamic traditions, we will not be getting anything such as autopsy evidence from the crime scene. Unless of course, their eternal rights were trampled, along with their living, which I seriously doubt.
I do not think he was trying to say that the child is an evil little liar, but rather children make crappy witnesses when heavily questioned by different people. So much time has lapsed from the incident, a child is unlikely to accurately remember important details about the incident without a bit of filling in the missing pieces. These missing pieces are sometimes filled in with fanciful imaginations which combine truth, with dreams, nightmare, and imagination. Because they are often witness, at very young ages to more atrocity than most Americans ever see in their lives, sometimes it all becomes one big blurry nightmare for them when they try to recollect what happened. If indeed they were witness to it, there also draws upon a fine line from further traumatizing the child, something none of us desire. Because off the lack of evidence, and the possibility of additional trauma, even a gentle interrogation would be somewhat cruel when the results would be next to worthless.
It does not mean that the child is lying, or even that they have been tainted. But it also does not mean they are being truthful, and have not been tainted. Without the possibility to further investigate the crime, knowing what really happened may never be told accurately.
To the point: Just because your child says they talked to Santa Clause last night, does not mean you are going to be cleaning reindeer turds off of your roof as well. Children are, and will always be very impressionable by their surroundings, regardless of where they are from, but they are poor witnesses when asked specific questions regarding time and space orientation.
I am just sorry for the Robert Bales have taken all the blame! One person killing 17… that’s happening only in Rambo movies << We never find out what happen there>>> that’s the end of the story.
AB&AB, More than a dozen were killed in texas by one guy and didn"t one person kill more then seventeen children in Sweden or somewhere and he was not a soldier with an automatic weapon. It does not just happen in the movies.
It seems highly unlikely that Bales acted alone, especially with so many witnesses saying otherwise. Is it really that easy for a soldier to sneak out of camp, twice in one night?
Thank private military - I wasn't saying this child was lying on purpose. I was just saying ALL children do not necessarily make credible witnesses. Ask any attorney - eyewitnesses have notoriously bad accounts. In this case I would want someone a little more credible - life and death issues.
Man this is UGLY
NOW Every Liberal/Democrat is going to JUMP on this! They LOVE everything that they can throw at our military men! Look, we CANNOT TRUST ANYTHING that comes out of the mouths of those who want us out of their country! This person, Hakim, or Gen. Karimi, CANNOT be TRUSTED! They have ONE GOAL in mind: to REMOVE the American prescence! They will go to ANY length to accomplish that GOAL! NOW they are saying helicopters provided COVER for a SINGLE, or a GROUPS, rampage! IMPOSSIBLE! First of all NO helicopter can EVEN be fired up without ALL the chain of command clearances! There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY! Secondly the OTHER soldiers "escorted" him out, TWICE, and stood in the yard and did NOTHING but "STAND IN THE YARD"! Look, this does NOT work out! The FACT is this guy "popped" after his friend got killed by these SAME GOOD people! They can run back and forth between good and bad RIGHT in front of our soldiers! It is kinda like "I did it, you SEEN me DO IT, but you CAN'T do ANYTHING ABOUT IT"! And OUR soldiers HAVE to DEAL with THAT EVERY DAY! And the "NIEVE" Liberals/Democrats in OUR country, play THEIR GAME! I am VERY interested to SEE which politicians go AGAINST our SOLDIER! YES, he CRACKED, and he SHOULD be REMOVED, BUT, OUR military PUSHED HIM TO HIS LIMITS! WE ARE TO BLAME FOR HIS PROBLEM!
You sir are an insult to every American who has ever served. How about taking a real long walk off a very short pier.
Intermittent caps lock....sheesh
I do agree with you on part of your rant. You wrote: “WE ARE TO BLAME.” I do agree that brainwashed zealots like you are at fault, but not most Americans. Only a minority of Americans are pure evil and support crimes against humanity. Yes you are at fault, as you wrote, but I am not included in the “WE” you wrote of.
As a friendly suggestion I will mention to you that using caps the way you did makes it hard to read your post, and that while you might have brilliant things to say (or not) many won't bother to read it since it's hard on the eyes and feels as if you are yelling every couple of words at your readers with no warning. Just a suggestion....
And you are wrong on people jumping you because of their party. If they do it will be because they don't agree with you.