Does this make the USA a state Sponsor of Terror???...We have thrown everyone in that region that could even be remotely considered friendly to America under the Bus, in favor of known terrorist orginizations...and sadly I don't believe (or don't want to) that this Administration wasn't aware of the likely outcome...

Mr.Phea: there are a few things that Obama cares about in regards to the Middle East: Oil, the Jews, and his own re-election. And a year ago, it was vastly popular to pick sides, so that's what he did. Change we can believe it, right?

I guess he had to pick a side, I just wish once he would pick the side that wasn't anti-American at it's core, even if by accident...He gave Iraq to Iran, he is going to give back Afghanistan to the Taliban, he gave Egypt and Lybia to the Muslim Brotherhood, and if he could figure out which side in Syria hates America more I'm sure he would be a little more supportive there also...Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi and the list goes on and on...I just hope the mayans got it right, because when these chickens come home to roost it will not be pleasant

@JK

as screwed up the last 5 administrations have been, you are right...but at least I had the sense that they had America's best interest at heart

"The announcement of Khairat al Shater's selection by the Brotherhood's executive committee is a significant departure for the group, which initially vowed it would not field a candidate from within the organization. The Muslim Brotherhood's political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party, already controls nearly half of parliament."

Hmmm, interesting. Broke their promise, did they? So since our friend Musharif was deposed the country's government went over 75% muslim, anti-US and anti-Israel, and now the Muslim Brotherhoods has changed it's mind and wants to take over the Presidency. I'd like to hear how the President is taking this new twist in the "Muslim Spring". If you asked me, I'd say that it's not turning out as planned. Democracy? Nope, theocracy.

In supporting the revolution, we stepped in it again, as usual. More unintended consequences, eh libs?

@tstucker0958 Where is it written that the US gets to arrange other countries' leaders according to itself and the despised Israelis? It isn't. The American Revolution was brought about by armed liberals. Conservatives sided with the British Crown. Egypt is for Egyptians- not the extremists in the American GOP nor the Zionists. Good grief.

It appears that another international coalition should organize a ground offensive in Egypt using diplomacy and world opinion as their weapons.

So let me get this straight, you're saying the United States should have helped violently put down democratic revolutions?

are ya'll that stupid...Our government knows everything and we are all knowing

Well...now I have heard everything

deleted by user

No offense intended to anyone; but, to borrow a sarcastic quote from Disney,

"I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die from that surprise!"

Enough with the finger pointing already. What choice did the President have but to support the revolutions, verbally if not materially. This was always going to happen; dictatorships fall and supporting them against the will of the people, something we'd been doing for decades and which has prejudiced the ME against us, is not in our best interests.

Revolution was inevitable. Our choice was whether to support the oppressive status quo or let the people decide. They will probably choose leaders we don't like, but what's the alternative? Continuing to support hated despots? More US military adventurism?

Waaaaaayyyyy too much!

JoeNY

Hmmm, interesting. Broke their promise, did they? So since our friend Musharif was deposed the country's government went over 75% muslim, anti-US and anti-Israel, and now the Muslim Brotherhoods has changed it's mind and wants to take over the Presidency.

Joe, you are in the wrong country. Musharif, who isn't our friend, was dictator of Pakistan. We, as a country, have no right to tell, even though we've tried for decades, to tell people of other countries who their "elected" officals will be. Unfortunately, you cons can't seem to grasp that.

At least Obama is happy.

They will probably choose leaders we don't like, but what's the alternative?

It also depends on who "we" are. If it is Zionists or Islamophobes, all "we" can we like is a weak Egypt subject to despots who can keep oppressing his own people.

If it is us ordinary Americans, we hope that they will choose a democratic system for their own sake. If they choose someone we don't like, well that's life. If they choose someone who wants to attack us, well ...bring it on. Other than that, we don't have much to do with it.

Ido,

The Muslim Brotherhood played no part in the Feb. Revolution. The protesters were intellectuals, youth movement and students. MB only got involved once the hard work was done and Mubarak had stepped down. Please do not even try to tell me I do not know what I am talking about, as I was there for the whole thing, and spent a lot of time in Tahrir Square. By the way, the Muslim Brother has broken every promise they ever made pertaining to free elections and progress towards Democracy.

ROY WILSON-336103

Congratulations, Obama, for pushing our friend Mubarak out

Congrats Roy,

You get this week's brianb award for most ridiculous post. Obama didn't push out Mubarak. The Egyptian people did. Unfortunately you can't grasp the truth. You cons claim you are for freedom, but freedom only by you're definition of it. Well freedom comes with choices and the people in the Middle East and North Africa are making choices. They're just not making the choices YOU want. And that's ok even if YOU don't like it.

Blaming Obama for this is kind of pointless - it's not like he had any say in the matter anyways. He tried to be friendly to the revolutionaries, and it didn't work, but what choice did he have?

That being said, I don't understand why he continues to support these backward people who export nothing to the world except for oil, totalitarianism, and terrorism, all the while turning a cold shoulder to Israel, the only real democracy in the Middle East and whose technological and medical advances benefit the entire globe. Israel should be a shining example to the Arab states, a place where although it is considered the 'Jewish State', still allows freedom of religion and press, as well as every other sort of freedom for its citizens.

I am a conservative, and to be honest, I don't think Obama has been doing that bad of a job domestically, especially with how hampered he is with Washington's partisan politics. But his handling of foreign policy has been terrible. I don't trust the guy for one second in that regard.

muslim brotherhood are a terror evil group, and every one know that.

And the takeover of Egypt by the Islamists is no complete, thank you Obama. The Arab Spring that Obama and his liberal cronies have been touting as this great and wonderful thing is really the start of a new Arab winter, with the religious fanatics taking control in one country after the other. The sad thing is that our completely inexperienced, incompetent president was too stupid to see it coming and ignored those who did and tried to warn him. The 30+ year Egypt-Israel peace is now in the toilet, and the once secular country is well on it's way to becoming another Islamic Republic. Libya has also gone from a secular to an Islamic state thanks in large part to the leadership of our inept president. If Obama has his way, Assad will be out and Syria will wind up in the hands of the Islamists as well. How many countries is Obama going to hand to the Islamists before the American people wake up and realize that his foreign policies are a complete failure and making the world far more dangerous for this country.

This is no surprise that the Brotherhood will run a Presidential candidate. Read the Koran. Allah instructs his followers to practice deceit and lies to take over the world and kill infidels. More to come.

The Arab Spring was a controversial, unstoppable and unpredictable in outcome event. You could make the argument the should have supported Mubarak and you could make the argument that he had to be removed. A secular leader in a predominately Arab country is by definition unsupportable.

But now we have Islamist Muslim Brotherhood taking over. We will have to deal with it.

The new Egypt doesn't want to have anything to do with US. With to
bad economic situation US Has to worry about paying its debt and return Mubarak
frozen assets to Egypt. Egypt relies on its gas and some oil export, they don’t
need US

Just what we need, another Iran. THANK YOU President Obama and a special shout out to Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton. I knew what Arab Spring was! How the hell couldn't our leaders know this? This is going to get real folks.

Obama and some in Washington knew about the Muslim Brotherhood and their evil hidden ways. This does not surprise me. How many millions are the US taxpayers giving to Egypt? This needs to stop.

Out of the kettle and into the fire! Seems to be the trend these days in the Middle East and Africa!

al-Qaida, Muslim Brotherhood are Sunni Islamic extremist front organizations for the seventh century bigoted and highly corrupt and feudal Saudi Arabia and other Arab League nations.

Watch for the events unfolding in Egypt!

Still many in the US are solely guided by the monies flashed and thrown around by Saudis, oil companies, lobbyists and extremist Jewish Netanyahoos.

They are forget the realities and just like Iraq, they are dancing with the most dangerous and bad guys on Syria and Iran. Monies, monies, greed and more greed!

They did not learn from Iraq and Afghanistan.

I hope they elect somebody secular, but if that MB guy is who the Egyptian people want to elect, that's who they want to elect - majority rule being the whole point of democracy and all.

This business of propping dictators and tyrants against the wishes of their peoples is how we got into the mess we have over there in the first place, and is the most obvious answer to the question of "why do they hate us?".

Let them run their own show - once they get into the democracy swing, they'll start to worry more about their politicians taking care of the mundane things like education and jobs and the economy and the potholes on the street and that impact them directly in their everyday lives, instead of mystical mumbo jumbo about what god supposedly wants or whatever.

I see that everyone is blaming Obama for this. How is it his fault. What is he God? Do you know why these Muslim Revolutions are moving to the radical side? Its all about the aid that the U.S. gave to their despot dictators. Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlaviwas the Shah of Iran heavily supported by the U.S. to keep its people in control. Then there was Saddam Hussein who was a strategic ally against the Soviet Union and was heavily supported, some even speculate the U.S. made his Ascension possible. Mubarak used U.S. made suppression tools such as tear gas and riot shields to subdue his people. Not to mention he received 2 billion dollars annually from the U.S. just for those purposes. And that's just the few that comes to my mind. I think it is time WE embrace democracy, and allow those who were under our invisible thumb to make their own decisions. Lets just hope they will pick the one of peace regardless of the decisions we made for them in the past. If not, there is always war.

Mr.PheaNiques-0000001

I guess he had to pick a side, I just wish once he would pick the side that wasn't anti-American at it's core, even if by accident..

Maybe a little too quick to rewrite history, Mr. P? If you remember, he stalled at picking sides at political peril. Then, based on the killing of protesters by Mubarak, they called for him to resign.

Obama went with the people and criticized the killing of citizens... just like Syria.

Okay, quick... pick a "side" in Syria, then guarantee me that it will all work out in the end.

We may want to consider that the only brand of Democracy that has a chance to survive in the Middle East may be ones not run by Republicans, but instead run by their own home grown political parties? Maybe ones we don't care for? That have a little too much religion for our taste?

We will have to work with what we get. It wasn't for you or Obama to chose.

Before he can run, Shater must win the endorsement of 30 members of parliament (he will easily do that). But he will also need a pardon from the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to overturn a previous conviction. During Hosni Mubarak's decades-long rule, Shater was imprisoned for several years more than once.

The Muslim Brotherhood decision will certainly ring alarm bells in Washington and has already angered many in Egypt who have been warning that the Brotherhood is slowly attempting to take over all aspects of political life, including parliament, local councils, the constitutional committee and now the presidency.

What, you actually thought you could believe them? It’s the muslim brotherhood, you can’t believe anything they say. X con running Egypt? Way to go Barry!

In helping Egypt we weren't trying to help a particular political party of any kind , it was all about democratic freedom and the right to self rule . Now if it happens to be that a majority of the people dislike us then so be it but at least it was a majority and I'm fine with that ( I don't feel the need to be liked by everyone ) . When a dictator (friend or not) has control of a country you never know when a wild hair will get up his arse and all hell breaks loose . At least a democracy needs time to come to a consensus and that helps keep things in check and allows time for cooler heads to prevail . Personally I'm all for the end of all monarchies and dictatorships , and I really don't care if they are our friend (to our face) or not .

Who could have seen this coming?! Oh yeah, everyone that has any brains and common sense. Unfortunately, Obama is severly handicapped in both departments.

Zathrose Obviously you and commonsense are strangers Mubarak was done for it was only a matter of time even before the president took sides. The mistake of hanging on supporting a failed government when its all over but the shouting is one we have often made. BUT NOT THIS TIME. That is smart hanging on just makes enemies amongst the people of the country involved. Tea Party the muslim brotherhood of christianity.

imwhitewolf "ROY WILSON-336103...Congrats Roy, You get this week's brianb award for most ridiculous post. Obama didn't push out Mubarak. "

Oh really? Gee, I guess people must have 'misunderstood' when Obama made the following comment;

"uploaded on Feb 5, 2011 - President Barack Obama is calling on Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to immediately begin the process of handing over power."

If you prefer to hear it in Obama's own words, here's the youtube link;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6x_Ca5w6jE

Arrogant Americans trying to rule the entire world, brought to you by the reich wing !!!

Khalid-2395974 "I hope they elect somebody secular, but if that MB guy is who the Egyptian people want to elect, that's who they want to elect - majority rule being the whole point of democracy and all."

I guess you miss the point. Once the MB takes over 'Democratically', they will pass laws declaring Egypt an "Islamic" Republic, and religious leaders will then make all of the decisions. Only 'acceptable' people will be allowed to run for elected office, and they will be subject to the 'Supreme Religious Leaders', where the actual power will exist. The 8 million Coptic Christians in Egypt will then be subjected to horrible persecution, which has already started with rapes of Coptic Christian girls and beatings of their families that protest.

In other words, after the MB is elected, 'Democracy' will cease to exist so the people no longer have a say in how the government is run and Sharia Law will prevail. That's how it works in most of the Middle East.

Isaiah 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken [man] staggereth in his vomit.

Isaiah 19:15 Neither shall there be [any] work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.

Isaiah 19:16 In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.

Isaiah 19:17 And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.

You are absolutely correct Roy. They have democracy to select the new regime but then they can never get rid of those elected and their policies when they turn out to be oppressive. That's what happened in Iran.

Our most precious principle is our Constitutional republic and not our democracy. But to have a constitution mean anything there first has to be a loyalty to and respect for it first and foremost over every lesser political consideration.

It especially bothers me that a jurist like Ruth Bader Ginsburg can go abroad and tell people (as in Tunisia and Libya) that they should look elsewhere for a model than the United States. Progressives like her hate the American Constitution with its checks and balances because it hamstrings their efforts to impose all their brilliant schemes to control our society.

When you have all the answers why put up with delays and compromises? I'm sure that's what the Muslim Brotherhood is thinking: enough of this foolishness, just go for it.

Islamic Sharia Law in Brief

This is a very good article written by a FORMER muslim.

http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=625:islamic-sharia-law-in-brief&catid=79:mirza&Itemid=58

Some common laws of “Islamic Sharia” which are regularly practiced in the Islamically ruled (Sharia-based) nations with some minor variations:

1- Jihad defined as “to war against all non-Muslims to establish the religion” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.

4- A percentage of Zakat (alms) must go towards jihad.

5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.

8- A Muslim who leaves Islam (apostate) must be killed immediately.

9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of : a) an apostasy b) an adulterer c) a highway robber. Making vigilante street justice and honor killing acceptable.

10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim.

11- Sharia never abolished slavery and sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave. Slavery still exists amongst Arab Muslims.

12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, for sins like killing, adultery, prostitutions; and other Quranic corporal punishments like: amputation of limbs (chopping hands and feet), floggings, beatings and other forms of cruel and unusual punishments even for the sins like: stealing, sexual promiscuity, robbery, burglary etc.

13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims and must comply to Sharia (pay Zizzya: poll tax) if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their own religious scriptures, or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he commits adultery with a Muslim woman or if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.

14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. However, Muslims can curse, criticize or say anything derogatory they like to the religions of others.

16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.

19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.

20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls under Sharia. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and consummated at age 8 or 9.

21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.

32- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife caught in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women since he “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”

33-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory and is known as Taqiyya (Islamic Deception). That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.

The Muslim Brotherhood played no part in the Feb. Revolution. The protesters were intellectuals, youth movement and students. MB only got involved once the hard work was done and Mubarak had stepped down. Please do not even try to tell me I do not know what I am talking about, as I was there for the whole thing, and spent a lot of time in Tahrir Square. By the way, the Muslim Brother has broken every promise they ever made pertaining to free elections and progress towards Democracy.

Yet somehow they are popular. Nothing you said makes any difference if they win in a free election.

Swan37: Yet somehow they are popular. Nothing you said makes any difference if they win in a free election.

------------------------------------------

They have democracy to select the new regime but then they can never get rid of those elected and their policies when they turn out to be oppressive. That's the same thing that happened in Iran.

This is a situation much more threatening that Iran.

1) Egypt has the only military in the region that is actually capable of going head-to-head with the Israelis. You have to remember that in the Yom Kippur War, Egypt achieved 100% of its military objectives (primarily retaking the Sinai which Israel was occupying) and dug in in defensive positions before agreeing to an Israeli-requested cease fire. When Syria's attempts to do the same with the Golan Heights sputtered, Egypt attempted to go back on the offensive to take the pressure off Syria. The US supplied intelligence to Israel that allowed then to "rip the seam" of the Egyptian forces who, in reality, had no plan of attack and was simply trying to create a diversion. But the bottom line wa that Egypt was far more successful against Israel than most people think.

2) The Muslim Brotherhood will always be difficult for Westerners to understand. Arab social institutions tend to include religious, social (especially education and health care), banking (because interest is forbidden under Islamic (as well as Jewish and Christian) law), charitable, and militia-like groups under one roof. It would be like the Southern Baptist Church containing not only its religious functions, but also its own schools and hospitals/clinics (which they do) as well as the American Red Cross, several major banks, and the Georgia National Guard. In a country that is historically resource-poor it makes sense. Muslims have no problem with this, but Americans would.

3) The military is the key grup to watch. The military, headed by Mubarrak, was always in charge before --- going back to Nassar and Sadat --- and kept tight reins on the MB. And the military was easy to deal with --- just give them money and they were happy. But the military also ran roughshod over the Egyptian people. Then the military was deposed, the MB rushed in to fill the gap. But now the MB is challanging the military for control of the country. Even though democratically elected by a hugepopular vote, the USA will always back the military against any democratically-elected government. We only believe in democracy when we can control the process --- or in other words, when it is not democratic.

4) One of two things will happen: a) The MB will be so popular and powerful that it will be able to wrest power from the military (watch for defections from the higher ranks of the military to the MB), or b) the military will re-establish itself by a coup and a ruling military junta will re-establish a "democratic" secular government chosen from candidates acceptable to the military. The military would then round up all elements of the MB and the youth movement and imprison them. Then the US would resume full aid.

5) If the MB takes power away from the military, all bets on peace with Israel are off. There is simply too much bad blood between the two countries to be reconcileed without at least another 30-40 years without military conflict. The military would actually be very willing to attack Israel in order to get back in good with the Egyptian people.

6) With Putin assured of another two terms in office, he can feel safe trying to revive the old Russian-Egyptian linkage that existed during the Cold War. Russia has far more influence with Egypt, especially with its military, than with any other Arab country. And while a friendhip with Iran would buy surprisingly little for Russia (because Iran is non-Arabic and Shiite) the same effort would buy a great deal of political capital in Sunni Arab Egypt.

7) If Assad gets nominal control of Syria back, his best bet to stay in power would be to try to unify the Syrian people on his side by stirring up trouble with Israel. This would put Israel in the untenable situation of trying to react to three simultaneous, but very different scenarios. Even its lackey, the United States, could see the danger in that.

Most of us on this board saw this coming. Once again, Washington, meaning Obama and those working for him, were wildly optimistic that a FEW secularists somehow represented the common man. Instead what has happened is that many ALREADY thought Egypt was secularist enough and it wasn't working, meaning Islam didn't dictate every move in Egypt, which now most Egyptians want again. So the average man doesn't want to think for himself and likes the idea of a just Islam government taking care of them. Egyptians now believe Islam leaders will be honest politicians because their religion says it is so. Try talking that one down.

Obama never chooses right even when short-term he can make the case he did. He has terrible instincts. He trust Russia. Who would do that? He wanted to have an unconditional relationship with Iran. Who would want that? He believed that this Arab Spring was all about secularism. Who believed that? He believed Afghanistan was the good war. Who believed that? He believed it was Bush standing in the way of ME peace, and now we see that is also not true since zero advances have been made on that issue.

I wish voters would wake up to how badly Obama has handled international relations that were crucial, and how badly he has handled the economy.

Chris: All of which argues for Israel to begin immediately to serially address these threatening scenarios on its timetable and grounds of its choosing (Sun Tzu) rather than letting nature take its course.

Even more compelling is its status as a client state and the leverage it will lose after the elections this fall should the current administration be reelected and have the "flexibility" to pursue its own inclinations on more than just the missle defense question. The hot mic with Medvedev was revealing but let us not forget the prior one with Sarkozy even more directly pertinent to Israel. Clearly, Obama resents being, as you put it, a "lackey." Being a small man and a product of Cook County politics, it would be foolish for Netanyahu to doubt that there is a day of reckoning coming for Israel.

And neither Netanyahu nor Barak are foolish men. A regime in Egypt with the Brotherhood in real control would be the catalyst requiring action irrespective of the current developments in the inexorable Iranian progress to a nuclear weapon.

Swan37:

And they WILL win. Because just like the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Iran, in the '79 election, there will be one candidate on the ballot, and ballots will be checked to make sure the "right" candidate is marked.

And then wearing a hijab will become mandatory for women. And then the first of many purges will begin.

If you are an intellectual, a westernized woman, a homosexual or a member of the opposition or former regime, it's time to start packing your bags.

With Israel preparing to attack Iran's nuclear program, it will just be one more 'complication' for our incompetent President to deal with. Based on past experience, Obama will have the wrong response - as usual.

We need to keep one very important thing in mind - Israel has atomic bombs (perhaps several hundred), and is prepared to use them if they think their existence is in danger.

@Roy

I would love to believe that this is an effect of "incompetence" of this administration, but I don't

And they WILL win. Because just like the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Iran, in the '79 election, there will be one candidate on the ballot, and ballots will be checked to make sure the "right" candidate is marked.

And then wearing a hijab will become mandatory for women. And then the first of many purges will begin.

If you are an intellectual, a westernized woman, a homosexual or a member of the opposition or former regime, it's time to start packing your bags.

When and IF that all happens which is by no means guaranteed, it's their problem and they can deal with it.

Do you have any suggestions as to how they should "deal with it"?

Yep, here comes another "questionable International decision" for Mr. Obama to answer during his re-election bid. His answer will probably be: "We (Obama and his "elite" staff) didn't see this coming" while the rest of the World did.

His answer is going to sound like his "shovel ready jobs" for Stimulus #1. Laughing....."the shovel ready jobs were not so shovel ready"....after spending about $ 862,000,000,000 taxpayer dollars.

The Muslim Brotherhood decision will certainly ring alarm bells in Washington and has already angered many in Egypt who have been warning that the Brotherhood is slowly attempting to take over all aspects of political life, including parliament, local councils, the constitutional committee and now the presidency.

Get rid of a one suppressor and, more than likely, the people will elect someone even more repressive.

I am still waiting on the drone action in Syria. Wait a minute.....pick and choose.

Yep, here comes another "questionable International decision" for Mr. Obama to answer during his re-election bid.

I wonder if killing bin Laden will come up during that Q and A?

I'm not going to take away the credit he deserves for allowing the strike on Osama, but I would like to acknowledge some of the others who made that strike possible...

Kind of like when the GOP comes to power somewhere in the US- it's all military vanity and religion.

Well mr. phea, assassination has always been considered underhanded and weak. It still is.

If you have had some thought that these assassinations have made us any friends, think again.

Bush's error, compounded by obama.

Beginning of genocides of Christians!

Add to the long list of genocides of minorities in Sudan, Ethiopia, Pakistan and Shiites in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and other places.

Sorry!

The US, British and allies, UN, human rights groups, media are busy counting the children and women in Syria and WMDs with microscopes!

It is a profitable business to be totally blind in some places and watch with microscopes where one can count monies!

From one dictator to another.

If a millionaire felon can run for president in Egypt, then why not here?

Exactly. Honestly who believed them? Anyone one who did should be ashamed of themselves.

He has no shame...he is all vanity.

Good thing no one judges the US political system on domestic gang and criminal violence, military war crimes, riots after sporting events, threats against weak and poor countries, and finacial criminal activity of all sorts huh?

And... here we go with the internationalist crybabies.

Just like you can depend on certain tribes in this country to support Obama, come hell or high water.

Daniel Sloan,

I was in Tahrir Square with the Revolutionaries. I can assure you that they WERE fighting for freedom and Democracy. The revolution was shanghaid by the Muslim Brotherhood and SCAF. SCAF does not want Democracy, because they want to keep all of the perks they have accumulated through all of the Mubarak years.

SingBiker, this is true and if you checked my postings you will find that I have been saying that for a long time.

Now my question to you is why can't a liberal like you respect the opinions of a conservative like me? can't we just be objective and agree on the facts without questioning the character of each other.

As for Toast... and vermont..., you can check their postings and you will find that they do not deal with facts they simply repeat their talking points no matter what's the subject

Perhaps you'd like to address the point then, CC.

@SingBiker... Are you sure about the military's cooperation with the Muslim Brotherhood? I was under the impression that the SCAF was the only adult in the room (they did drag Laura Logan's naked, raped ass from the "peaceful" Islamist mob). As for "perks," I have my doubts as to whether they will continue to enjoy the benefits of Western/American military aid if the Muslim Brotherhood proceeds to go all ape-$hit on Israel again like they've always wanted to do.

The Muslim brotherhood and ruling military are trying to outsmart each other and while they are still trying to work together. This happened before in 1952, the free officers led by Nasser cooperated with the MB and toppled King Farouk, then MB has a power struggle with the officers and ended up being put in concentration camps by Nasser in 1954. Some in Egypt believe that history will repeat itself.

Ummmm.....Mubarak is a Muslim, as are the generals currently holding power.

To quote from "The Manchurian Candidate, they will rule in a way "that makes martial law look like anarchy".

It won't be as incompetent nor as criminally violent as the frat boy flop Bush's Iraq anarchy begun in 2003. BTW- Didn't the USA fight a civil war that took 600,000 lives? Yes, it did. So much for the American know it alls.

No real surprise there. Seems to be an issue with all politicians, lol. MB has no corner on that market.

how many times do I have to ask "what should obama have done"? invaded eqypt to prop up mubarek? The army was and is the real power in egypt, they could have kept him in power if they wanted to.

soooo...how would YOU 'brilliant' conservatives have prevented this, here in america? do tell :)

I suppose you'd prefer we sent Americans to die in support of despotic tyrants in putting down democratic uprisings?

No toast, Its You that would prefer that vermontguy ment that.

This is worth another look

2-14-11 Niall Ferguson delivers a stinging analysis of the Egypt situation and Obama's over all foreign policy. The Harvard professor put Mika Brzezinski in her place and then delivered a cerebral smack down that left her head spinning. Ferguson stated the Muslim Brotherhood wants to deliver a caliphate and the Egypt uprising may be similar to that of Iran in 1979. This is a great clip and Niall Ferguson impressed the heck out of me and left the liberals at MSNBC reeling.

Here's another take:
Mika Brzezinski thought she was going to humiliate Niall Ferguson because he's not all excited about the glorious Democratic uprising in Egypt. She naively says things went 'pretty damn well' in Egypt, explaining that she saw pictures and people looked really happy over there. Doesn't take long for Niall to completely destroy Mika's juvenile view of Egypt, in what amounts to nothing less than a humiliating spanking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8

I think its funny when people say this is the death of democracy in Egypt when Egypt NEVER had a democracy.

Now lets say for sake of argument, that the Muslim Brotherhood won the elections fair and square. That would mean a majority of Egyptians want to live under sharia law, apparently.

Remember, Democracy isn't very kind to minorities. Look at the Sunni in Iraq and Liberals in Egypt/Libya. Our democracy wouldn't be either were it not for our Supreme Court !

SO who are we to question their democratic process? They wanted crazy islamic rule and now they have it.

Now if the elections were rigged, thats a whole nother can of worms. But What can you do? There are accusations of election rigging here in the USA, the 'shining beacon of democracy'. What more could we expect from a country like Egypt?

IMHO: Obama should have stayed out of the Arab Spring entirely. I'm with Ron Paul on this one, we NEED to get our NOSE out of other people's business!!

As Vermontguy said, what should we have done? We still have not heard one solid explanation of what conservatives would have done differently, all they ever do is criticize. Finally once and for all would someone please tell us what they would have done, because simple criticism is the ignorant persons refuge.

Cirnobyl

"Obama should have stayed out of the Arab Spring entirely. I'm with Ron Paul on this one, we NEED to get our NOSE out of other people's business!!"

We can't throw Israel under the bus, all the Arab nations want to destroy it no matter what they say. European nations don't care for Israel as much as they should considering what they have done to Jewsfor the last 1000 years. We are the only friends they have who will back them up with guns.

Vermont: The gripe isn't that Obama should have propped up Mubarak or apologized for his regime and its methods. The gripe concerns the humungous discrepancy between how quickly and bravely he throws crippled US friends under the bus and how fastidious he is in avoiding lifting a finger against our adversaries who are even crueller than our erstwhile "friends."

its pretty pathetic that you make stupid posts like that. Prove that obama didn't know what would likely happen? lol, you can't. Haters make the dumbest posts here. :)

Vermontguy,

Do you remember the comments that came out during the Arab Spring that the Muslim Brotherhood is just a minor party with limited support, because and we should not worry. We did not have the right to stop them but we did have the right to not help them or provide them with financial assistance

vermontguy, it's pathetic that your ideology blinds you. You and your Messiah, Obama, were duped by the Muslim Brotherhood. I said more than once, that the WH is infiltrated and influenced by MB. They lied to Obama, because they believe that ends justify the means.

It's ironic that only liberals in Egypt, both Muslims and Christians, and conservatives in America, mostly Christians, were the only groups who were not fooled by the MB facade.

I am waiting to hear anything honest and intelligent from the WH about the way the "Arab Spring" is going.

Coptic Christian,

The elections were pushed through way too soon. The Coptics in Egypt (I just returned from a 6 year stay in Cairo) were too foolish to do what needed to be done in order for they and the liberals,Intelligentsia to have any kind of a chance against the Muslims. Had they all cooperated and formed a coalition there chances would have improved. Probably not enough to have a huge impact, but better than what they got.

SingBiker, it's good to talk to someone who has a first hand knowledge of the event he is discussing. I have been following the events in Egypt, and what happened was a conspiracy between the military and the Islamist to take advantage of the youth revolution. Every event since the take over by the military was well orchestrated between them and the Islamist, starting with the appointment of the committee to modify the old constitution in March 2011. I agree that the secular Muslims and Christians should have worked together but they were not given enough time because everything was rushed according to the military/Islamist time frame.

Anyway, many Egyptians are turned off by the MB duplicity, because they have reneged on every promise they gave in regards to their political ambitions. Today some MB leaders resigned in response to their latest betrayal, namely running one of their people for the presidency. Right now they are trying to control every branch of the Egyptian Government and to write the new constitution.

I am waiting to see who will be their strongest opposition, the military rulers or the ideal Islamist?

Well, at least you have a "democracy" now.

I really can't think of a Democracy that isn't some kind of shell game.

In the USA its a alliance between both parties and the corporate elite.

In South America, its a alliance between the Military and the most wealthy families/drug lords.

In Europe, well I don't know, their democracy doesn't make any sense to me.

And of course in the ME, its Islamists and the Military working together.

There are many democracies in the world today. Very few are actually "By and For the People."

I am still waiting for all these conservatives know it alls to tell us exactly what they would have done differently. They can not because they have no clue, all they know is criticism and as I said before, that is the refuge of the ignorant.

How about starting with a meaningful strategy based on reality not on wishful thinking. Here's an explanation of what's wrong with Obama's policy as explained by Niall Ferguson on this youtube posted by Ixor Kleb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8

its pretty pathetic that most the conservatives in our country are inbred and illiterate

odb2, I find a mindless comment like yours annoying; you start with ignoring all the facts, then you come up with one meaningless sentence, and finally you pat yourself on the back for your cleverness. This is the ultimate proof for how far some lefties like you are detached from reality.

MK1....

I haven't noticed that the libs have come up with any workable answer beyond "leave The Obama alone".

Too many factions involved, the US too spread out, no UN or NATO concensus. Other than Mubarrack must go, there was no follow up strategy for an orderly transfer of power to a stable ..... and hopefully ..... moderate government.

Be nice if the jeenyooses at the top would think something all the way through before acting.

mk1-4292421

I am still waiting for all these conservatives know it alls to tell us exactly what they would have done differently. They can not because they have no clue, all they know is criticism and as I said before, that is the refuge of the ignorant.

------------------------------

You must be naive about debating. The expression is : argument ad hominem is the last refuge of the incompetent. How's that refuge working out for you?

This is worth another look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8

or: just ask Laura Logan

Thank you Ixor Kleb for this posting, it's one of the best evaluations of the failed Obama's policy in the middle East and the danger of MB.

BTW for all you liberals, don't be afraid of watching part or all of this more than 11 minute video, it's not from Fox News, it's actually from MSNBC and it's mainly a talk by an author of an article published on Newsweek.

The youth started the revolution, the old claim the power.

Hello Copic,

Thanks for the stroke. What is interesting is Mika Is Zybigneow Brzezinski's daughter. Niall drops his name to calm her down abit.

Afterwards I thought for sure they would never have Niall Ferguson on Morning Joe again. He was! About a month ago when his "significant other" Ms. ali Hirsi got a cover story in Newsweek.

Anyway... yesterday i surfed over to "Morning Joes" website and viewed a recent interview with Mika B's daddy: the big "Z" to shill his new book. I was interested to hear what he had to say about why he thought the USA should stay out of Syria. Near the end at the mention of a news rumor that Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood is trying to "reign-in" Hamas. OH Cum-byeYAH"! !! Instead of reminding them that that reigning-in maneuver does not abrogate the Muslim Brotherhood's Charter.

Instead they spent the lead-out gushing and cooing over the "irony that the MB and Hamas (and specifically NOT Israel) could "usher in peace". check it out if you can

Speaking of "strokes", you might recall that the Egyptians, mainly the younger demographic, stood up in protest against Mubarak and what they deemed his oppressive rule, ever failing economic policies and the dismal employment climate. Furthermore, they were none too happy that Mubarak was a hand-selected puppet of the U.S. and he was most certainly on the take to the tune of billions of $$$$. Whether we like it or not, the Egyptian people chose to revolt against Mubarak, they chose to protest in spite of the great risks of injury and death, and they did so in an effort to usher in a new era of Democracy as they envision it. The people of Egypt will speak with their votes and regardless of whether we like it or not, they have that right separate and apart from any influence from America.

You self-professed prophets who claim to know it all about Christianity, world politics, and how Christianity is mandated to interfere for the sake of Israel, don't have a clue as to how very wrong and off-base you are. Religion or, as I call it, "Chrisinsanity" proliferates that belief system, but The Bible certainly doesn't. "My kingdom is no part of this world." God spoke those words, and I can only surmise that the importance of that statement has failed to resonate with and within you. You can study Egypt and the Middle East in its entirety, but you will never be able to control the situation on the ground no matter the who of your vote in November. God Himself will allow the nations, their leaders and their henchmen to do whatever they're going to do before the day He selected for a "takeover" comes, and it will be in His due and appointed time, not yours. Christians like you are The Core Problem that rages against spirituality, and you makes others who would, otherwise, be inclined to consider Christ run away because of your flawed and errant theology, doctrine and dogma. False Religion should be your banner NOT Christianity. You believe in Dominionism and you are full on dangerous.

Irony of ironies: You believe you have the right to force your beliefs and youR notions of "morality" onto us and the world, but you cry, gnash your teeth, tear your sackcloth, shake your fists, and yell about any and every other country with leaders who do the same thing. You are gunning for a Theocracy right here in America and you feel entitled to do so. That makes you dangerously delusional and dangerously wrong. Your mantra should be: Theocracy is good, but only if it's my way! You don't see your hypocrisy, but that's nothing new. Try telling a person with mental illness that they're mentally ill. . .they'll tell you: YOU'RE CRAZY!

Speaking of "strokes", you might recall that the Egyptians, mainly the younger demographic, stood up in protest against Mubarak

You don't need to be a "prophet" to predict that those enlightened young people are going to have an impact in a country where a third of the country cant read.

Christians like you are The Core Problem that rages against spirituality

We are happy to mess with the agenda of a death-cult with world wide ambitions of conquest. They cant shut up about it. I bet you havent read the Muslim Brotherhood Charter.

. . .and you will fail. Mankind will never be able to adequately govern one over another with peace as their main agenda. Like I said, your theology, doctrine and dogma are juxtaposed with that of God. You will know that in due time. War on but you will lose. It is written.

ask.. whatever conservative groups are trying to do in America pales compared with what the Muslim Brotherhood/salafists are trying to do in Egypt. What is happening in Egypt now is that the Islamist are controlling the Parliament, but they want to control the executive branch both the presidency and the prime minister, all the ministries, all the unions and on top of that to write the constitution.

If you believe that Christians are trying to do that in any Christian majority nation tell me about it.

Egyptians, mainly the younger demographic, stood up in protest.

Yup a few thousand of 'em in a fancy square madly thumbtyping.

Apparently the millions of Egyptian unwashed spoke in a louder voice. With something other in mind than western Democracy in the spirit of Western Democracy...Irkwan and Islamists more conservative than the MB.

So we have this article explaining that folks like you (other than YOU of course) are shocked by the reality on the Egyptian street. Instead you opt for a religious rant about how I want to usher in a theocracy somewhere..(?)

We are happy to mess with the agenda of a death-cult with world wide ambitions of conquest. They cant shut up about it. I bet you havent read the Muslim Brotherhood Charter.

"and you will fail..."

"Mankind will never be able to adequately govern one over another with peace as their main agenda"

And your alternative is?________

how did obama "put the brotherhood in power"? The military aid helped them how? Clue for the clueless: right now the military is the REAL power in egypt, not the MB. They've been the real power for a long time..helped by aid from every president for many years.

"Thus, the military is and will continue to be the real power, absent a real revolution.

For example, SCAF retains control of appointing the committee to write a new constitution, retains control of appointing the cabinet and has said, amid great controversy, that it will retain exclusive control of the military budget and of military economic affairs."

Obama's policy towards the Islamic world was shaped by his MB advisers, that's why he betrayed his old ally Mubarak.

Coptic Christian,

That is just an ignorant and bigoted thing to say. And you do not seem to have any idea of what the real situation on the ground was during the revolution.

No it's not ignorant and bigoted, Obama had in his inner circle MB activists. most important of the MB are Rashad Hussain and Dalia Mogahed. You can read about them here

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-warning-about-muslim-brotherhoods-influence-on-white-house-from-liberal-marxist-muslim/

http://www.marshallfrank.com/articles/2011/09/infiltrating-the-white-house/

The Blaze? Glenn Beck's hysterical opinions. Whatever.

Forget the Blaze, Glenn Beck, or whatever; I did not want to waste my time digging up what is mentioned about Rashad and Dalia in the WH, it has to be buried somewhere in their archive.

Just check those two people and their connection with John Esposito the Islamist propagandist, and learn something.

Coptic Christian knows everything. . .just ask him. ;-)

I am sure I know more about Egypt than you do, but the problem is that people jump into any discussion with their own biases, and no matter what is the subject of the news, they have their own prepared talking points such as:

All religions are the same, but Christianity is worse

Most of the atrocities were committed by Christians and never forget the Crusades and the Inquisition

White man killed Indians and enslaved blacks

If you dare to criticize Islam, you are a bigot.

Fox news or "FAUX news!" is useless and those who watch it are illiterates

The problem is that none of these talking points advance our understanding of the subject, they only help in sidetracking us into a never ending cycle of meaningless debates as useful as the Big-Endian discussion in Gulliver's travels

And when all THAT doesn't work there's

"ad hominem attack"

----------------------------

Trying to visualize a "Big Endian discusion" I am ;-)

how did obama "push mubarek out"? what choice did anyone outside of egypt and the ruling military have? how do you know obama didn't see this coming?

good lord, you people are silly.

Vermont, you're not gonna get a response.

yeah, the haters are good at hate, not so good at clear, intelligent defense of their hate.

Toast and vermont, study what's going on in the real world and don't be blinded by your stupid ideology.

Coptic Christian,

Perhaps you should look in the mirror and tell yourself the same thing. Were you there during the Arab Spring? I was, and I talked to the protesters - none of whom were MB at the time. Where were you? Sitting in some McMansion watching Faux News I imagine.

Perhaps you'd like to answer on his behalf then, CC.

SingBiker, I have been living in America for many years, I am now an American citizen. I left Egypt because Christians were persecuted and I have no intention of going back. I am defending my brothers on this web because it is filled with misinformation posted by blinded ideologues.

Copts paid a heavy price under Mubarak's rule and they paid even a heavier price after he was deposed. All I have been doing for sometime on this blog is to report the atrocities committred against my brothers and sisters in Egypt, and I will not apologize for my position or my beliefs.

Sadly the plight of the minorities under Islamic rules is ignored by most of the liberals and MSM, BTW some of the most informed reporting about these minorities are on FOX News.

There you have it. . .Fox News. NEXT!

That's because you are an ocean including the distance of 5 to 7 time zones away from Egypt Einstien. You don't live there with 30% unemployment. Phil speaks as an arrogant American neo-fascist might who would deprive others of choosing their own gov't system if it benefits the American world order.

the aid to the military enables the military..who was and is the real power..to stay in power and act as a counter to organizations like the MB.

That was money to silence the Leaders of Egypt.

Except the Tea Party members aren't religious fanatics.

Judging by the laws they've put in place, I'd say the facts disagree. In fact, they seem more motivated by religion than anything else.

Going to have to agree with you on that one.

So much ignorance (from Canada) and so much wilful misinformationfrom Toasty. The TEA Party and the religious right are in an uneasy coalition (with the third element being the remnants of the moneyed elite that are yet to desert to the Democratic Party). About the only thing they agree on is "no" to the progressive agenda. No one paying any attention to the GOP primary train wreck could miss the point that this is an opposition party that will come apart at the seams if it actually has to govern.

Sorry Rick, but while that may be the spiel they spout for the TV cameras, the teabaggers' actions in office revealed them to be nothing more than the same far-right conservative movement we've seen for decades, just with a catchier name.

how was obama responsible for this? was he supposed to say "pretty please everyone go home and leave mubarek in power" and everyone would politely gone home? lol? or did you want us to invade egypt to prop him up? enlighten us please :)

A bit like asking for our drone to be returned? Oh, wait - you're a supporter, so reality wouldn't come into it. You're right - he's blameless. It's Bush's fault.

i'm a supporter? lol, prove it. Oh, I'm a supporter of intelligent logic, which is in short supply here. I'm ready to blame obama if you can show EXACTLY what he SHOULD have done which would have made a DIFFERENCE. lol, feel free to demonstrate your "brilliance". :)

PS - bush? why are you bringing up bush. I didn't. are you stupid? :)

So how many American lives should we have sacrificed to put down these democratic uprisings, OL? How many servicemembers should we have sent to their deaths to prop up these dictators? I'd like a specific number, please.

I'd like an answer for once, if you'd be so kind this time.

its tough supporting a "democratic" uprising in a culture that is anathema to democratic values.

Niall was spot on over a year ago

Did the military resign? Oh that's right, I didn't think so. I guess all you Obama hating morons can STFU now. When the Generals aren't in control anymore, give me a call.

The problem with the last presidential election was that we had no qualified candidates. I voted independent but he was not qualified either.

Sadly, unless something magical happens, there will be no qualified candidates in this upcoming election, either. I suppose I can write in Ron Paul.

Heh, of all the candidates who are unqualified, I'd definitely put Paul on the list.

Too bad he wasn't in office during WW2. We could have slept through the whole thing. Pearl Harbor? We should have pulled out of Hawaii and ceased from meddleing in Japan's back yard. We had no business being there. Had Paul been in office he would have kept us out of Tripoli and left Real Americans engaged in legitimate Yankee trading to sort out their own supplyside problems.

;-)

U.S. intel knew exactly who would rise to power when Mubarek was deposed. Obama thought they'd love him just like he thinks everyone else does. That's his misplaced arrogance. He's in for a rude awakening in November. I can't think of one sane person who's happy with this moron-community-organizer who was given the presidency by a complicit media who failed to vet what should have been someone incapable of being a dog catcher.

So, am I to understand that you do not plan to give me an answer, OL?

They won't give you and answer, Toasty, because they don't have an answer. It's easier to arm chair QB the entire situation in retrospect if and when anything goes awry. That's how these know it all(s) roll. They know everything. . .just ask 'em! They'll tell you they know everything BUT they won't tell you what they know. Quite the quagmire, I imagine. ;-)

feel free to dazzle us with YOUR brilliance (lol) on what obama should have done in egypt. No vague nonsense please. :)

Stand firmly with our allies for starts. Not going to Cairo to sing cum-bye-yahto Islamists for second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8

Ixor,

May I remind you that we stood firmly with our dictatorial ally, Shah of Iran, which ended up backfiring on us?

It's no wonder why the people in the Middle East hate our guts and I don't blame them for holding a grudge against us for our support of dictators.

I don't even know where to begin with your post.

First off, Mubarak's government had numerous human rights violations. The man was in power for 34 years, only because it was illegal to run against him. It was only a matter of time before the people of that country revolted. So what would you have our President do, support a dictator whose time has come or support a popular uprising with the hopes that the people may have the chance, for the first time in history, to decide who will lead them.

Secondly no one had to wait to read the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. I read sections of it prior to it becoming law. Google is a useful tool my friend. Please do some research instead of mindless drinking the kool-aid of the right wing.

Ampillian,

thanks for your reply. i was going to start by giving you a mild nose-rubbing by pedantically pointing out this is a discussion about our forgiegn policy regarding Egypt. I am glad you brought up Iran. We ended up selling him-them out too. Carter wanted to usher "people-power" into Iran adn abandoned a long term ally that was not as smart as Mubarack. Everytime a prez pressured Egypt to "be more democratic" Mubarak would ease back the throttle on the election process just enough that a dose fundamentalists & muslim brotherhood types would swoop into the political process promising more, "death to Israel! and the west! blah blah blah!", Faced with THAT Washington would back the heck off, continue to pay billions of taxpayer dhimmi dough thanks again to our Great Statesman Carter.

If THATS the reason the entire ME "hates our guts"...(?)...that's one piss-poor reason. The Shah was the alternative to a Islamist Government that would have "hated our guts" by National definition and persicuted its minorities. Kinda like what we have now, uhh....minus a nuclear program.....

Ironic that you used the word "pedantically" as your posts are the very definition of "pedantic." Please, dazzle us with more of your pedantic rants as to how Ron Paul would have abandoned Pearl Harbor and the entirety of Hawaii, leaving Japan to do it's thing. I'm on pins and needles!

What doctrine would that be? The one that says not only abandon our friends, but push a somewhat friendly government out of office and install the Moslem Brotherhood?

The new "hope and change" foreign policy of the USA is brought to you by Barak Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton. What a duo.