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Subscribe to RSSThe war against al-Qaida is at a “critical moment” as the “much weaker” terrorist group looks to regroup in Africa, according to the author of a new report.
Valentina Soria, a counterterrorism research analyst at U.K. think-tank RUSI, told msnbc.com by telephone that the network had been damaged by the death of Osama bin Laden and other leading figures.
Her report, titled “Global Jihad Sustained Through Africa,” which was published at 7 p.m. ET Tuesday, said al-Qaida’s leadership was looking for partnerships with like-minded organizations in parts of Africa – such as al-Shabab and al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb -- to “regroup and re-energize itself.”
West 'unsighted' by shift
Soria told msnbc.com that the war on terror was at a key point, as while al-Qaida was weaker, Western counterterrorism officials had been “unsighted” by the apparent shift to Africa.
“I think it’s certainly an important junction, a critical moment because obviously counterterrorism operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan … and Yemen have been quite successful in decapitating the organization [al-Qaida], a lot of important figures have been removed,” Soria said.
“There is no doubt the organization is much weaker than it was a few years ago,” she added.
The report said that “despite greater co-operation, there seems to be an unresolved tension between transnational aims of al-Qaida-core and the local grievances of African partners.”
At an international one-day summit Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron said the world would "pay a price" if it fails to help Somalia overcome terrorism, piracy and starvation. ITV's Lee Comley reports.
It added it was unclear whether al-Qaida was making a “conscious effort” to regroup in the Horn of Africa and sub-Saharan Africa or if this was the result of “displacement” and cooperation on an “ad hoc basis.”
American hostage in Somalia rescued by US Navy SEALs
Islamist militant group al-Shabab, which operates in Somalia, has merged with al-Qaida’s core group, a move “officially endorsed” by al-Qaida’s leader Ayman al-Zawahiri in February of this year.
'Arc of regional instability'
The report noted that U.S. counterterrorism officials had been voicing concern about the prospect of al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, which is based in Algeria, using local instability and weak or absent government to expand its zone of influence.
“If correct, this assessment would raise the worrying prospect of an arc of regional instability encompassing the whole Sahara-Sahel strip and extending to east Africa, which the now weakened al-Qaida-core could well exploit to regroup, reorganize and reinvigorate its terrorist campaign in the West,” the report said.
UN: Ancient treasures of Timbuktu under threat in Mali unrest
In Mali, south of Algeria, Tuareg rebels on Sunday seized the ancient city of Timbuktu, following a coup that overthrew Mali's government last month.
“[Al-Qaida] appears to be adopting a strategy of ‘going native,’ which implies seizing upon and exploiting local grievances with the ultimate aim of securing a stable foothold in volatile countries,” the report said.
Al Qaida's leader announces his terror group is holding a 70-year-old American aid worker hostage in Pakistan. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
The report said that counterterrorism officials “privately acknowledge that they are unsighted” and are “working hard to understand how far the jihadist challenge may be migrating” to Somalia, Kenya, north Nigeria and parts of West Africa.
“From West to East Africa, across the Sub-Saharan region, we may well be witnessing a new phase of decisive developments that could trigger further turmoil,” the report said.
More from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Officer: Iran could hit US if it came under attack
- 'Cute-and-cuddly' primates from Indonesia sold illegally as pets
- Report: Assad's uncle says Syria leader is finished
- Crazy gas prices driving German consumers mad
Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
Hmmmm...the article says "western counter-terrorism officials had been 'unsighted' by the regrouping of these terrorists in North Africa". I read that to be "counter-terrorism officials have been blind". Time to wake up you dummies, get the drones going, get rid of as many of these muslim scum terrorists as you can! Don't waste any more time....
Regrouping????? They've been there for a long time.
Should read ....We are just getting around to planning how to start our next war in Africa...
Evidently, they were in New York too Philip. Please, keep your isolationist views in check.
Justoneguy...I have no idea how you've come to the conclusion of me being against getting rid of these crazy people but with a little research Im sure you could of seen that your comment is way off....You might want to keep your comments in check....I never even hinted about being against war!
Philip might be a savage and is unaware of his condition.
Then wat up with 'starting the next war'? This "war" on these people has begun...and it's going to take us wherever they go - in order to exterminate them. Perhaps you should elaborate?
Wait.....I want Mrs. Napolitano to appear on the media and tell Americans how safe we are with our borders being secure.
I wonder when the last time she visited San Louis Rio Colorado, Arizona, or Lynden, Washington.
@ Ido
I am no geography expert so you can correct me if I am wrong. I am pretty sure Africa does not border the United States ;)
Republican al qaida in supreme court just PASSED a new law(yes passed) that allows strip search for any reason if you are arrested by police, innocent or not. Way to go teabaggers........keeping the government out of our lives!
The Supreme Court doesn't pass laws. Nice attempt to make them judicial activists. They ruled the procedure as constitutional.
Innocense or guilt is determined in a court of law. If you're placed under arrest or being detained, the police WILL search for illegal contraband or deadly weapons. They are within their rights there.
I have to wonder how much is this newest AQ informant being paid by the military contractors and the politcal elite to keep the American sheeple scared of the latest foreign bogeyman and to keep the cash flowing to the war effort?
Did anyone else bother to notice that the terrorist threat from radical Islam appeared on the national screen just as the threat from the former Soviet Union disappeared?
Our Marines were attacked in Beirut in 1982 by Hezbollah, nine years before the Soviet Union broke up. We were there trying to KEEP the PEACE.
lol
We teamed up with Al Qaeda in Libya where as soon as Kadafi was killed started a genocide to black people that live there and now we want to arm them in Syria. Former intelligence officer MichaeL Scheuer said this in countless interviews, he also served as the Chief of the Bin Laden Issue Station (aka "Alec Station"), from 1996 to 1999 and special adviser to the Chief of the bin Laden unit from September 2001 to November 2004 said this. So we're to arm them and then go in and kill them. Not because of the billions of dollars worth of natural resources like oil, iron, cobalt, uranium, copper, bauxite, silver, petroleum, ivory and lumber that can be salvaged. I guess that has nothing to do with considering starting more wars. All these chairty organizations that want to send a letter to send troops to Africa by asking President Obama is 100% a good cause too when they point the finger at someone like Joseph Kony but neglect the fact Yoweri Museveni slaughters his own people by the millions but he's a good guy because he's friendly with the U.S..
justoneguy wrote:
Exterminate them? What a dream. We can't even stop the gang wars in Los Angeles, and yet we have this fantasy that we can somehow stop something similar (but bigger) on the other side of the world. Unfortunately, a conflict based on 'revenge,' that has an unending supply of new and willing participants, will never, ever end. This is just gang warfare and 'drive-by shootings' on a bigger scale.
Gotta love it when someone who knows so little about American government actually tries to enter a political discussion.
Stick with LoLcats, it's easier to understand.
I don't think water boarding is involved here though if they are torturing her while his sister is in captivity... maybe they gave her a "wash board"... and she is doing everybody's clothes by hand with it until she fesses up with info...
Repeal Posse Comitatus and deploy combat troops and heavy weapons in East LA and I bet the gang wars end pretty quick. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Hello folks, can't you see the writing on the wall? Another false flag! Why do you think they tried to perpetrate the Kony hoax on us. That didn't work so now they are falling back on the old Al Qaida straw man. It's about money. In GOD (Gold, Oil, or Drugs) they trust. The war on terror was designed to confuse and fool the people who aren't awake so that we could go in and plunder other countries resources.
Fresh Uganda Oil Find ‘Africa’s Biggest’
By The Times
14 Jan 2009 "The Times" - -Heritage Oil announced details of a large oil discovery in Uganda yesterday, which the company claimed could be the largest onshore discovery in sub-Saharan Africa.
Heritage said that its latest discovery – Giraffe1 – in the Lake Albert region, could total at least 400 million barrels of oil.
However, Paul Atherton, chief financial officer, told The Times that the wider field it was developing, dubbed Buffalo-Giraffe, had several “billions of barrels of oil in place”, although it was unclear how much of this would be recoverable.
He said that the field, which is 9,000 square kilometers in size – or six times the size of Greater London – was unquestionably the largest onshore discovery made in sub-Saharan Africa in at least 20 years, possibly ever.
Mr Atherton said that of the 18 wells the company had drilled in the basin so far, all had produced oil. “Clearly the entire basin is full of oil,” he said. “It’s a world-class discovery, the most exciting new basin in Africa in decades.”
Previously, the largest onshore fields discovered in sub-Saharan Africa were at Rabi-Kounga in Gabon, where 900 million barrels were found in 1985, and at Kome in Chad, where 485 million barrels were found in 1977.
Mr Atherton said that it would take at least another three years to start commercial production. The crude could be exported by road or rail, he said, but analysts believe that the most practical solution would be to build an 806-mile pipeline to take it to Kampala, Uganda’s capital, and then the Kenyan coast. The pipeline would need to be heated and designed to traverse swampy and mountainous land. It would cost an estimated $1.5 billion (£1 billion) to complete.
Heritage and its partner Tullow Oil, which also has a 50 per cent equity stake in the project, would need to demonstrate that the field could produce at least 400 million barrels of oil to justify the cost of building such a pipeline. Richard Griffith, an Evolution Securities analyst, said the latest discovery “thrashed” this commerciality threshold.
See Also - Uganda : Pressure Mounts To Make Public Oil Agreements:Uganda's oil discovery is already attracting major players like Italian oil giant Eni Spa, U.S. Exxon Mobil, France's Total and of recent the China National Offshore Oil Company. The country does not have the funds to finance the production of oil and instead signed agreements with oil giants spelling out how the revenue will be shared with investors willing to fund the production phase. The companies will build an oil refinery in Uganda and an oil pipeline to the Indian Ocean. This will enable the landlocked country to sell its estimated two billion barrels of crude oil internationally
Uganda's oil contracts leaked - a bad deal made worse: The repeated claims by the Ugandan government and the oil companies that Uganda has received a very good deal and the best in the region are not only a fiction, but were reliant on the real terms of the contracts being kept secret. While the contracts will deliver vast profits to Tullow Oil and Heritage Oil, the contracts will prevent the Ugandan people from receiving their due benefits.
Oil extraction and the potential for domestic instability in Uganda: The paper identifies and discusses in detail three sources of domestic volatility that may arise as a result of oil development.
Uganda: Oil could cause war : The attacks are by armed gangs suspected to be rebels of the FDLR, LRA, and the Allied Democratic Forces (ADF). In the ongoing campaign in DR Congo, President Joseph Kabila is being criticised for failing to restore peace in this vital area.
You couldn't be more wrong - and yet you broadcast your naiveté and misinformation around here with such misguided, misleading, and insane moral-authority - exactly when will your a$$ be releasing your head?
Nearly 3000 dead civilians in New York on Sept 11, 2001 would beg to differ and tell you how wrong you are if it were possible. They would not give a damn about the money or resources - just a few last minutes with their loved ones would do it for those poor souls - and you diminish their sacrifice with your verbose brand of muck. There is a war on terror - There is nothing confusing about it - the only people fooled are you and your like-minded merry band of pacifists.
Brent Guthrie: The problem for the US in Lebanon began when the US killed Druze and Shia civilians in missile and artillery strikes FIRST- not after the bombing. It was apparent that the US was pro Marionite ( partially Isreali backed ) and therefor taking sides when Reagan The Liar said the US was not taking sides. Read the history and not US GOP mythology.
@Bent Gutherie. AQ is not Hezbollah and their aims are radically different. Hezbollah is opposed to the current state of Israel and Zionism. AQ came to life in Afghanistan after we use the CIA-backed Mujhideen to fight a proxy war with the Soviets over that land for 10 years. AQ is funded by our supposed friends the Saudi royal family, among others, while Hezbollah is funded primarily by the Iranians.
I wont bother trying to explain how the CIA manipulated the Iranian elections in the late 50's and installed and propped up the Shah for 20 years years until the Islamic revolition. Saddam was also the work of the US government until he stopped obeying the orders from DC and had to be removed.
@Oldport your the fool by taking someones word of government officials saying this while at the same time the people telling you these things are taking donations from corporations that have interest in making profits from natural resources. When our soldiers are sent to Africa to side with AFRIACOM while our economy collapses don't act like people didn't tell you. Some of us know this story from 3 years ago because it's already been known by a few that the Obama administration wanted to continue plans set by the Bush administration to send troops to Africa while we work with Al Qaeda aka the rebels you hear about in the news in Libya because the American government wants a piece of what China is already doing. Do you even know the meaning of propaganda? Please take a plane and fight this battle yourself. If you even went to YouTube you would have noticed why they disabled the comment section on Kony 2012 because the critics weren't saying that is was just a scam for profit but propaganda to get anti war liberal minded young folks to send troops to Africa and not to help stop genocide but for natural resources. Now this because people know laugh about that charity since the founder had a mental breakdown and shamed for failing.
TrustVerify, epistemologist, wizkid78232, and others that"get it";
Good points, unlikely to be changing any minds. The White Wash is complete, and most bought the official story. And do not want to seek the Truth.
CIA-sponsered Terrorism as administired by Corporate Interest/Controlled by Nationbuilding Imperialist Traitors manipulating Fear and Loathing to achieve World Domination Goals
A New World Order ensues.
Baaaaaa.
Do you think we are really involved in Peace, anyone? We wage War, Not Peace.
Peace, and Trust Your Government.
They Have Your Back...Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing
Justoneguy - I trust you are going to volunteer to be right in the thick of things when we get going on the "extermination" of all the bad guys. I mean, you or your children are, or were, in the military - correct? Reports like this are just laying the groundwork for some more military adventures that the less-than-one percent will fight.
Epistomologist - Thanks for the reminders about how some of these messes really started.
Be careful, fellow citizens. Our domestic propaganda machine is setting up for a load of b.s. so big as to be historical.
To begin with, dismiss entirely the label "Islamic Maghreb." That label is meant to pull your chain. The Maghreb is simply North Africa, and it has been Islamic for centuries. The label makes as much sense as to say "Catholic Vatican." It's meant to play on your emotions.
Then they attach a photo of a black child in distress, hoping you will link in your minds to the atrocities recently reported (again) in South Africa. After all, North Africa/South Africa, like North Dakota/South Dakota. No. Not even like North America/South America. The atrocities in South Africa, please remember, are being mostly committed by animals claiming affiliation with Christianity.
The Maghreb consists of six countries: the Canary Islands, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Canary Islands, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Mauritania. Learn about these countries and peoples before you agree to slaughter them. For example, Morocco was the first nation in the world to officially recognize the United States of America. It is among the most liberal of Islamic countries. Women participate in everything and dress how the please. It hosts the International Music Festival which is attended by musicians and music-lovers from across the world, it is a place you would love having visited if you were able to overcome your fears and go. Although it too has been attacked by terrorists, it is about as radical as my cat.
To our soldiers: If you fiddle around in that region, you're likely to eventually engage with a people known as the Berbers. When that occurs, very very very bad things are going to happen to you. All that has gone before will seem like a cake walk. Think long and hard before you do it.
Shows just how much you do NOT know. Hezbollah is NOT only active with the opposition to Israel and Zionism. They like the Hamas Foriegn Fighters are being used Worldwide as Fundamentalist Islamic Jiahdists.
Once again the Wikipedia non participant baloney, Wikipedia Disclaimer of Validity of Information.
YOU, epistemologist, did not particpate in Operation Cyclone.
During the USSR 40th Army Occupation, Operation Cyclone, and after the US Abandoned the Pro US Afghan Muhajeen. Osama Bin Laden was still living with his Rich Relatives at Saudi Arabia forming his Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization, Al Quada; Al Quada being Anti US, Anti US Ally, Anti US Ally Saudi Arabian Government (Moderate, Liberal, Modern Interpretation of Islam as Sunnis). Due to being Fundamentalist Islamic the Al Quada International Franchise is Fully Supported by the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran, just like the Funamentalist Islamic Taliban as being Fundamentalist Islamic they believe in the Shia interpretation of Islam; Shia Law, Sharia as derivited from Shia as Sharia Law.
Do not even attempt to declare yourself an epistemologist, as you are an insult to those that are or have been actually educated as Philosophy (Logic). As for instead of the Search For Ultimate Truths of Philosophy you stated a bunch of NON FACTUAL BALONEY OPINIONS.
wizkid78232,
Can I give you a golden shower (wiz on you) wizkid78232, AFRICOM has been at Africa for a very long time already. As formed from other US Military Commands Assets. Many that had already been at Africa. You act as if they are something "NEW", well they are NOT, it is just that they Officially have a Unified Command of their Own. Before during my deployment to Somalia, and Sudan we were sent as Task Forces still under US EUCOM, NATO, SHAPE, UN.
If you are going to even attempt to sound like you know something at least research the correct AFRICOM NOT AFRIACOM, proving you are too lazy to do the research to even know the FACTS.
TrustVerify,
ONCE AGAIN YOUR BALONEY SPAM, same nonsense you just keep changing the Nations names.
Keep slinging sh!t one of these days it will stick (stuck on all those uninformed that voted for your nonfactual post(s)).
WHY DON'T YOU TELL EVERYONE ON NEWSVINE WHO IS GETTING ALL THE RESOURCES that you continue to SPAM: THAT WILL PROVE YOU WRONG, WRONG, WRONG (NEGATING YOUR SPAM). Hint: Once again is NOT the US.
Sorry. Six countries: Canary Islands, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Mauritania. I got up to get a cup of coffee, had it in my mind, came back and repeated myself. (I do that in real life sometimes, too.)
South Africa is primarily black. North Africa is primarily Arab. Don't let them make connections in your mind because of the word Africa. North Africa is nothing at all like the image you have when someone says "Africa."
US 'war on terrorism' is a total scam. Trillions of dollars were wasted so far with very little to show for. The military industrial complex 'alien plant' is screaming: FEED ME!!! and the scared stiff American taxpayers do not protest when their money is flushed down the monster's throat... unbelievable stupidity....
Wait, wait!
If the reports are from think tanks then they stink, stink and then thanks and thanks to those, who financed them.
al-Qaida deserves immediate arms' supply to battle to Syria's Assad. Even drones are all directed to Syria and Iran to remove WMDs!
With much difficulty we could remove WMDs in Iraq and eliminate al-Qaida!
HYPOCRITE. You were the very one crying and whinning about US Imperialism, so here we are with nothing material to show for it.
(Extreme Sarcasm). That's Right the almost hundred Million US Civilians employed by US Military Industrial Complex are screaming FEED ME, gimme my expensive overpaid "Fair and Living Wage" paycheck so that the US Military has to pay $300 for a hammer or those expensive USAF Toilet Seats, instead of buying Made In China at Walmart.
Max^108, I'll feed you a man asyse protein drink, just suck hard. How about letting the US Military throw all you greedy almost hundred million US Civilians of the US Military Industrial Complex on US Unemployment. Then you can enjoy your Obamachow (Dog Food of undetermined sources) during the next Great Depression. As the current US Military Industrial Complex was created by President FDR to get the US out of the Great Depression after his New Deal To the American People Failed (US Government spending money did not have to create US Jobs), and President FDR realized that US Consumerism could not get the US out of the Great Depression, and the Sales of "War Materials" to England, France, Russia could and did 1939 before US Entry into World War II 1941.
example: How many Made In China Apple iPads would you have to sell, just to equal ONE Made In US, F-15 Sold to US Ally Saudi Arabia (also add in for decades the manufacturing (US Jobs) of F-15 repair parts.
Tell that to all the President Obama and SOS Clinton screwed up supporters. As SOS Clinton stated the involvement of Al Quada Syria and Hezbollah as the Syrian Rebels.
Your underware, lack of cognitive skills are showing, what WMDs at Syria.
Having particpated in 2002-2003 Operation Hotel California how about this Jonathan-1982062 explain the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility of Sargat that we captured and as far as Al Quada at Iraq, yes, they were there after we chased them from Afghanistan 2001 to Iraq and they became Ansar al Islam.
So keep on spouting off about those matters you know nothing about, you are only making yourself seem VERY VERY uninformed.
David - money spent on defense is essentially money wasted, pissed away unproductively, like blowing things up only to build them up again. Some level of military spending is unavoidable. Russia spends $35 billion per year on defense, while we spend over 1trillion per year. That is flat out INSANE! US citizens working for the 'monster complex' would be far more productive if they were building cars, bridges, and so on.
The military industrial complex is eager to open up another major area of warmongering operations: Africa. Americans will be scared into ponying up trillions of dollars to wage war in another god forsaken part of the world. Just like Vietnam was a TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY AND LIVES, the current and future 'wars on terror' overseas are NOTHING BUT A SCAM! Wake up people, reject the warmongering whores of the military industrial complex!
Be afraid and keep voting republican!!!
Its funny,
The FBI handled Terrorist far more better than the Military Industrial Complex.
But then, George would not had been elected President in 2004 had he allowed the FBI to do its job. The FBI would had caught all the people involved in the 11 September 2001 Incidents and then moved onto other crimes and the Citizens would had forgotten.
Which is why George the lesser used the Army and delibertly fought the war poorly so to keep it on the minds of the
SheepCitizens of the USA.Yesterday, on orders from the Fundamentalist Church and former George the lesser administration, Supreme Court Chief Judicial Activist John Roberts and his gang of thugs took another freedom away from the citizens by allowing the Police State to strip search anyone even if they are not guilty. Next the Chief Judicial Activist Roberts will allow Strip Searches of Children and Citizens in the streets who are not under arrest.
Call and write your Senators and Representatives, demand they Impeach and Remove John Roberts from the bench. Do it now!!!
I have to laugh......David-numbers above, our token MSNBC pro-zionist, warmongering a--hole wants us to believe that one-third of all US citizens are employed by the military-industrial complex. Of course, if you remove all the children, retired seniors and incompetent people, you essentially then have nearly the entire American workforce in direct employ of the MIC.
Way to go, David......[yawn]......but I'll ask anyways, where are your sources?? Please cite for us all....
Oh, and capitalizing every other word unnecessarily in your semi-coherent rants does not make you appear more intelligent or informed. You MAY have worked in the MIC (snicker), but you can't even write a rational post with a succinct point. I'm sure you'll be typing furiously in a few moments to retort this post.....I'll check back later when I get a break during my WORKDAY.
Once again UNIFORMED YOU TOO Indy Patriot-1934313
TELL ME HOW MANY US JOBS, HOW MUCH US MANUFACTURING IS CREATED BY FOREIGN MILITARY SALES. Do you even know what one of the Primary Criteria for another Nation to Buy US Military Equipment is.
Yes, sure how about this you allow the US Military to take US Civilians of the US Military Industrial Complex out and execute them like the Chinese and Russian Federation do for Contract Disputes, Contract Fraud, Contract Cost Overruns, Contract Disputes, etc. instead of rewarding them with Settlements so that they do not tie up the US Military Contracts in US Courts for Decades, and see if the Costs do not go down like the Chinese and Russian Federation.
President Obama and his lacky Secretary of Defense Leon Penetta stated, a 10% US Military Defense Budget Cut will result in a million US Civilians Unemployed.
You go right a head laughing boy go get the information from the source, as I don't want to spoon feed you and have to change your filled diapers later on. And you are NOT all, you are just too lazy unlike the rest of Newsvine:
President Obama:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments#contactpotus
Instead of name calling DISPUTE THE FACTS WITH YOUR OWN RESEARCHED FACTS.
Repeat the same mistakes and expect different results. That US Consumerism, cars, commerical aircraft, cruise ships, etc. were all tried before, during and after the Great Depression.
And by the way since you are so uninformed; how about this go research the US Military Defense Budget, then research the US Army Corps of Engineers responsibilites within the US.
So once again, Max^108, Indy Patriot-1934313 and those that voted for your uninformed posts lack cognitive reasoning skills and lack cognitive research skills.
David-numbers.... That's it?? That's all you got?
Sheesh, I thought I was simply asking for a fairly easy citation, and you can't even give me that?? You honestly cannot provide a link, but instead tell me I can go to the WH Q and A page??? LOL!
Oooo! Maybe I'll just give ol' Obama a ring on the "batphone" and ask him myself? Ha!!!!
APPARENTLY, I'm not nearly as connected as you are, David. APPARENTLY, I do not have the access to information that YOU have..../sarcasm.
Either way you crunch the numbers, I do not believe that we should be fomenting war and death across the globe for the sake of our economy and jobs. Somehow, I just don't believe it is justifiable to kill people for the sake of profits.
I guess that's where you and I disagree. And your warmongering attitude is shameful.
David, the military equipment sales to overseas customers are but a small segment of the US military industrial complex, and are not included in the 1 trillion dollars per year flushed down the toilet of our defense spending. NO, you do not need huge military and huge military industry to have a very prosperous country. Lots of countries in the world do just that. You may be a paid lackey for the warmongering lobby but the facts are quite clear: US is is spending more on the defense than the rest of the world combined, while deeply in debt, with a lot of unemployed people, and with average real wages declining. Folks like you simply continue to tell the same lies so that the rich can keep getting richer. 99% of Americans can't live off the crumbs left on the floor by the 1%. Never did, and never will. So many countries in the world prosper without pissing away a huge portion of their budget on defense. You have to be a retard or a crook to believe that spending more on the defense than the rest of the world combined is actually GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY.
And for the record, David: I would love to see US military actually execute all crooks responsible for defrauding US taxpayers on military contracts! Who knows, maybe your employers as well? And I would love to see US soldiers guard the top secret military installations instead of private contractors. It is incredibly funny to see US generals traveling in Iraq and Afghanistan with a security detail provided by paid MERCENARIES, not American soldiers... LOL!
DOU44- You neglect to mention the reason for those missle strikes. They were tasked to eliminate Syrian rocket batteries targeting Beirut. If they weren't destroyed, hundreds, if not thousands, of marionite, druze and muslim civilians would have been killed. The civilians killed by our rockets was unfortunate, but many more would have been killed if those batteries were allowed to remain functional. Isn't it just like a terrorist to take cover among civilian populations?
epistemologist- yes.....al qaeda are sunni and hezbollah are shi'ia. You digress from my point being Islamic terrorism has been around much longer than the late 1980's. America got a first taste of it in the early 1980's. Yes.......the CIA affected the installation of the Iranian Shah Pahlavi. We were following the policy of Soviet containment. Mossadegh would have allowed overwhelming Soviet influence in the Persian Gulf and that couldn't be allowed.
Isn't it just like an arrogant American extremist to not understand the fallacy and blowback of their unwanted military intervention in a civil war in a foreign land? Reagan sent force there to back the hated Israeli proxies but publicly stated otherwise lying. Your argument is a strawman argument based upon a hypothetical. However, villages were hit by the errant US weapons and Druze and Shi'a civilians killed thus the destruction of the US post in retaliation. Destroying Iran's parliamentary gov't was not due to Soviet containment but the nationalization of Iran's oilfields to end foreign theft and British corruption. The US installed a hated secret police and dictator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_national_Force_in_Lebanon.
America went in a second MNF to prevent Israeli backed Lebanese Forces militia from conducting any more massacres of Palestinian refugees. We went in to STOP ALL the fighting, but got stuck being shelled from both sides.
Arrogant American extremist? F*ck off dipsh*t!
david: Without much education, using big words, you people goofed up big whatever you people touched.
Even after losing badly in all places, you people don't have much shame to brag what you people have been doing.
You people can’t even use properly whatever arms we designed and manufactured.
As you mentioned yourself, just retire and shut up for a year. Sometimes, being out of hell holes bring sanity to insane and mad!
Indy Patriot: That not much educated and poorly informed tries to give comments on whoever posts something.
He is an example of failures and blunders! But in bragging he beats all hollow! One fails to understand likes of him.
He must be in a worst hell hole!
Funny. Is this the extent of our intelligence agencies? Hundreds of stories about Al Queda in Africa over the last ten years while we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. Apparently one of them must have read the news.....once. Man, they are quick on the uptake.
They were just setting up the AQ Network in Africa before 'announcing' this 'news'. It is just about ready...
john,
I agree. Our intelligence agencies should have stopped worrying so much about the threat to America and concentrated on the Somalia Olympic Committee years ago.
Just because you have not heard about all those US Military and US Intelligence Agency Operations ever since UN Mission Somalia I and UN Mission Somalia II (Operation Gothic Serpent), does not mean that nothing was being done. Afterwards, US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to CIA SAD/SOG Operation Redacted conducting Foreign Internal Defense, Special Reconnaissance, Targeting and Target Damage Assessments at Redacted in support of their Military. Operation Redacted at Redacted as Task Force Redacted conducting Foreign Internal Defense. Operation Redacted US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces, US Army Special Forces, USAF STTs, USMC MARSOC, USNSWDG conducting Counter Insurgency Warfare at Redacted.
For the longest time after participating in UN Mission Somalia I, UN Mission Somalia II, Operation Gothic Serpent, Sudan, Kenya, Redacted, etc. as part of the Task Forces of US EUCOM, NATO, SHAPE, UN before the formation of US AFRICOM. I emphasised that those forming the new concept of AFRICOM must learn Arabic as the Official Lanugage of Islam and Islam at Islamic Nations Colleges like I did at then US Ally Egypt and to forget about learning the individual Nation's African Languages.
Like I said before Libya was a President Obama and SOS Clinton screw up. As after the 2010 US Ally Turkey Attack of the Main Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Training Camps that were being fully supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran with their Special Forces trainers training the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists in Asymmetric Warfare the hundreds of thousands fled back to their Nations of Origin and as trained started demonstrations, strikes, riots, etc. leading to Civil Wars to Overthrow the US Ally's Governments aka the Arab Spring as praised by President Obama.
This is why before the Libyan Civil War the "Libyan Rebels" 80% consisting of Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc. were just waiting for the Civil War to start so that they could seize the 60 bunker Hight Razma facility on the eastern outskirts of Benghazi and a 35 bunker facility on the eastern outskirts of Ajdabiyah. And of course all the uninformed did not even know why the Civil War started at Benghazi. One of the primary goals was to get the 20,000 shoulder launched anti aircraft SA-7 missiles after all the other attempts to attack US Commerical Aircraft Failed (shoe bomber, underware bomber, laser printer toner cartridge bombs, etc.). Their other goal was to release President Obama's CIA Islamic Jihadist Guantanamo Prisoners that were transfered to Gaddaffi's Prisons. And of course their usual installation of a Fundamentalist Islamic Government (Shia, as in Shia Law aka Sharia Law). Getting rid of Gaddaffi of course as a Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbeliever.
Most of the uninformed were told Gaddaffi the Dictator, while not knowing that the Citizens of Libya were NOT the ones that wanted to get rid of Gaddaffi as they were being provided with a Free Education (with a Salary paid while attending College Worldwide), complete Medical, Dental, Vision the best that money could buy, A new car at cost, when married a Free House, gasoline at $0.33 per liter, unemployment paid salary of the previous employment, human and civil rights as praised by the UN and UA (African Union)(inflamed Fundamentalist Islam), etc. as a written contract in his Libyan Citizen's Green Book. It was the "Non Libyan Citizen" Residents of Libya that were previously brought into Libya to do the work that Libyan Citizens would not do, that were demanding Libyan Citizen's Rights that were incited by the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists to demonstrate, strike, and start the Civil War to fight for the preceived injustices and the eventual Strategic Goals and Causes of the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists.
david-475776
I know all of that, and so does a lot of America. It was more a comment about now they are starting to promote war elsewhere as things are winding down in other regions. Al Queda was in all of these places before 9/11. But now the priority shifts? I have to wonder why, after all this time, now it is of concern and a priority, or whether it is simply part of a larger plan for justified cleansing.
Really. Read post# 4.6.
Well, maybe some. The problem I see with all of it is that they will never root out bad among their own. Just as is the case in a lot of America. So getting their own people to do the job is a fallacy.
From Firsthand experience weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we formed Teams to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government of Afghanistan that were providing Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden and his Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization Al Quada; as well as one of the Main Islamic Jihadist Training Camps. Many of us that got out of the US Military became Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, EMTs (Medics), etc. to continue to Serve the US Citizens; with many of our friends dying in the 9/11 Attacks as First Responders; so we were nicknamed the "Vengence Force". Half the Teams attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG formed up with the Northern Alliance as the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban had already massacred the 20,000 to 50,000 Pro US Afghan Muhajeen from Operation Cyclone as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers; their mission was to attack the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Fortifications and the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Training Camps. Those of us with previous experience from Operation Cyclone went into the Afghan Cities to fight the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government's Militias. The surviving Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, etc. fled Afghanistan into Northern Iraq.
Those of us that survived 2001 Afghanistan were then rearmed, reequipped, replacements for our dead, some retraining as Teams with the replacements, then sent to Northern Iraq as 2002-2003 Operation Hotel California to locate, and eliminate the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Al Quada, etc. that escaped from us at Afghanistan and at Northern Iraq became Ansar al Islam; as well as mission of living with the Kurdistanis to gain their trust, organize, arm them to fight the Iraqis Military inaccordance with President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", that later became US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011. Iraq being the First Declared War since WWII after the US Senate passed into Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations (House of Representatives already had H.R.4655).
Basically, we have been chasing Funamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization Franchises of Al Quada, Al Quada's Branches all over the World, as Fundamentalist Islam does not limit it's self to boundaries, same with the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists. So you marginalize one Franchise of Al Quada the survivors go to another Funamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization Franchise of Al Quada and reform, reorganize, replace their dead, retrain, etc. and then return as their own Franchise.
What you consider "bad" is "good" for Fundamentalist Islam, as they are fighting for Fundamentalist Islam, Fundamentalist Islamic Government, Fundamentalist Islamic Laws (Shia aka Sharia Laws). It is also Illegal by Current Fundamentalist Islamic Laws, as a Death Penalty Fatawa to be carried out by anyone, to say or do anything against the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists. There is also the Death Penalty for all those that do not participate in the 109 Suras of the 114 Suras of the Holy Koran (Quran) Calls to All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. To be a "Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers Die A Horrible Murdering".
The minority 1.8 Million Islamic Believers do not determine what Islam is for the Majority 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide. The majority of Islamic Believers being Fundamentalist Islamic Believers as Shia, as most of the Modern Liberal Pro Western Islamic Believers as Sunnis are killed off by the Shia during the Centuries Old Wars between Shia and Sunnis.
Then there is the term Conventional Warfare as derived from the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention as a Civilian means to make War "Civilized". Think about that, War Civilized (Civilianized Rules). Results: 1907 Hague Convention, people believing that it was honorable to run into machineguns as WWI Trench Warfare and dishonorable to out maneuver around the flanks avoiding the machineguns. 1949 Geneva Convention, Korean Conflict (War) charge up the hills to take hills and hold ground (nice for (American) Football but does nothing for all the deceased during the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks). No more Bombing the crap out of Civilian Populations to defeat the National Will to maintain the Fight, like the World War II US and British 24/7 Bombings of Germany and Japan Civilian Cities; especially the use of Incendiary Bombs. The only thing that the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists believe in is the Holy Koran (Quran)("Fight in the ways of Satan"), Fundamentalist Islamic Laws (it is not you that killed for Islam, it is Allah that killed using your hands) and Results (dead enemy can't complain, they dismiss Forensics.).
add to post#2.7.
errata: The minority 1.8 Million Islamic Believers do not determine what Islam is for the Majority 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide.
correction: The minority 1.8 Million Islamic Believers living at the US do not determine what Islam is for the Majority 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide.
I am having a little difficulty determining your actual position. Is it to continue to try to weed out the bad, leave them alone, or carpet bomb (civilians just as guilty and complicit) and take them all out?
No doubt obama's brother is involved !
only took 3 posts to bring in the first inane obama reference. congrats!
You do know that Obama is a distant relative of John McCain and Cheney right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama are you sure none of them were not involved?
Anyone of them gets a cut, their involved! That you can believe and yes it's another war on enrichments. There is so much BS coming out of these wars it's not funny. As far as Cheney is concerned you know he is in on it. Hell that's probably the reason he wanted out of the hospital so quick, didn't want to miss out on his cut!
Phenomenal112,
Just like a little child, told over and over and over again.
Wikipedia: Wikipedia Disclaimer,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer
What Nation is President Obama'sFather From, that abandoned then divorced his mother Stanley Dunham? Are you saying that President Obama does not give a f**k about his Father, that Barry Sorento wrote his book about, Dreams From My Father?
What Continent is Kenya located at.
Do you even know WHY he was named the Arabic Omani Muslim name of Barack Hussein Obama instead of a Swahilli name. I found out really quickly after being at Kenya on R&R after UN Mission at Sudan. The Arabic Omani Muslims control everything at Kenya so they treat any Swahilli as Third Class Citizens. The Arabic Omani Muslims formerly captured Swahilli to sell as Slaves, and to this day that is what they believe the Swahilli are only capable of as Kaffir (the Islamic "N" Word, actually worse as an automatic Fundamentalist Islamic justification for extermination). So if you are named a Swahilli name you are automatically segregated as a Kaffir.
Before you start to even attempt to discredit what I posted as a "Birther" wrong. I was stationed at Indonesia attached to the US Embassy and know that Barry Sorento was born at Honolulu, Hawaii, and that the real reason that he is NOT a US Citizen is that none of the required paperwork was ever done to reinstate his US Citizenship after his Mother, Stanley Dunham had his US Citizenship Revoked, and the US Embassy approved the Revocation of his US Citizenship after an Investigation. As far as his being an Islamic Believer, he is, as required by his Step Father, Sorento. Things would have been considerably different if the school administrators, teachers, a police officer were not informed by someone attached to the US Embassy performing Special Surveillance that Barry Sorento was being beaten to death (being repeatedly kicked in the head while on the ground) by his classmates at that Christian School because he was practicing reciting the Islamic Prayers for his acceptance into Islam at the local Mosque.
Line one Name: Barry Sorento, Line two place of birth: Honolulu Hawaii, line three Citizenship: Indonesian (Indonesia does not allow Dual Citizenship (dual loyaties)), line four: Islam, line five: Mosque, line eight father's signature verifying accuracy of information, line ten Indonesian Official's signature verifying accuracy of information.
http://nightwatch1.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/obama-indonesia.jpg
His mother's paperwork to return to US with name change, note: none filed for Barry Sorento:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_clW92NzmFvI/TGTGIfXJeUI/AAAAAAAAEB8/QUoFZSMYCgM/s1600/000-4.jpg
Come on vermontguy, say "Darn those Bureaucrats for keeping all those Records".
Good God, David-numbers....did you take your meds this morning??
First of all, Obama's stepfather's surname was/is SOETORO, not Sorento. You want us to believe your posts are factually correct when you repeatedly get his name wrong? Hell, it wasn't even a typo or two....you wrote his name incorrectly every time!
Second, I'm quite sure BHO's credentials for a natural citizen were vetted long before he got far into the presidential race. Did you honestly believe that our administration would allow the election of a president, especially when there were false conflicts that arose during the campaign season, without any vetting for proper citizenship??? For Christ's sake, I bet you're one of those people that still believe BHO was born in Kenya, and his Hawaiian birth certificate was falsely created!
Of course, can you please explain to all of us "uninformed" people how Barack's mother knew to forge his birth certificate 40 years ahead of time in case her son became the US president????
Oh, and you're still capitalizing everything unnecessarily. Do they not teach proper English in Tel Aviv??
As uneducated as most of Africa is it would be very easy for Al Quida to invade & take over much of Africa.
Second obama reference: Yes, just like what obama did in the US.
depends on what you mean by "take over"...al quada is a very small organization. In the classic military sense there is no way they can "invade" a country and conquer it by themselves.
However, all it really takes (as we saw in afghanistan) is a country with a weak/willing gov't that allows it to work freely there...
oh, you mean just like what bush did? yes, I see the logic now. :)
Niki, I fail to see the reference to Obama in B.M.'s post.
B.M.851761 wrote:
How big is Africa again? Trying to take over "much of Africa" would spread an attacker's resources incredibly thin. Especially an attacker that doesn't spend hundreds of billions of dollars on their military each year. Besides, it doesn't take much of an education to pull a trigger. Just ask one of the kids who fought in Sierra Leone, about that.
LOL. Shows just how much YOU DON'T KNOW.
"classic military" what are you calling "classic military" vermontguy. Maybe Roman Legions being your "classic military". As even the "Minutemen" as individuals with no uniforms conducting the first successful example of US Military Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency), after the uniformed Militia fled with the Founding Fathers after British Generals Cornwallis and Henry Clinton seized the Colonist's Militias Armories before the start of the "American Revolution".
What has become the "Classic Military" ever since my dinosaur days of Command and General Staff College and War College as taught to us prior to the Defeat of the USSR was that all Wars after the Defeat of the USSR would be Asymmetric Warfare and NOT Conventional Warfare.
It is your and your peers mentality that has caused the Defeat of the US on numerous occassions because of your not even grasping the concepts of Asymmetric Warfare and demanding the US Military conduct YOUR screwed up obsolete concepts of Conventional Warfare during Asymmetric Wars. Even during World War II, the US used the OSS for Asymmetric Warfare.
As soon as Politicians that think like you do vermontguy get involved our hard won Wars turn into Big Failures or at the very least a major cluster f**k. We had already won Afghanistan then the uninformed US Pubic got involved: http://dougstanton.net/. After 2001 Afghanistan we were sent to Iraq and same thing happened with Iraq we won then the US Pubic lost the War thru uninformed US Pubic opinion: 2002-2003 Operation Hotel California.
YOU TOO Dr. Cat being uninformed. The Primary Goal of Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency) is NOT firing a single shot or killing anyone yourself. You get the people of that Nation to do everything.
"As uneducated as most of Africa is it would be very easy for Al Quida to invade & take over much of Africa."
The comment itself shows how poorly educated and ill-informed you are. Living in "the city shining on the hill" hasn't helped your level of intelligence much, has it? With this level of intelligence, why would your political and military class not think they can get away with this inane attempt to link al-Qaeda to instability in Africa, providing themselves an excuse to project further military presence on the continent to counter China's growing influence there. The security situation in Africa has complex roots, originating in colonial legacies, U.S. Cold War ambitions and exploitation by Western resource multinationals, aided by incompetent and greedy post-colonial elites. To reduce all of these into some kind of al-Qaeda threat is really stupid.
Nice time to start taking these losers out in the holes they hide in. They are nothing but weak, manipulative fools who twist the population of hungry and uneducated individuals to do their bidding. We need to grab the leaders now before they regroup and send them on a suicide mission, let them have a taste of their own medicine American style.
that's what we've been trying to do for a decade now. Not an easy task...
War on or of Terror is an epic US corp-gov fail.
6 deleted, Steve L.-2369556 calling 'terrorists' 'Sand Naggers' - a play on the word '@!$%#s'. They're terrorists - you can call them names that aren't racial slurs.
You're suspended for a week for violating #5 of the Code of Honor.
No doubt the Americans will find some excuse to incite a war w/Al-querdo and blame it on them. An equal opportunity government we are. Wall Street back in action once again.
let her and her kids free? hell no!!! let them rot in that prison.
Great! Have you ever seen an African al-Qaida saw the branch off a tree he is sitting on?
Let them have Africa......
Bet they cannot outrun a Cheetah.
Dude, you couldn't Africa on a map even if I showed you where it was. Just keep stuffing your hole full of cheetos and leave the international relations to folks who spend some time with their heads out their azzes.
Who might those international folks be. Tell us it's not the pentagon! Oh yeah I know it's Hillary.
Heres al shabob's cousin in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UwpqaJ9wxw&feature=related
Great TV drama for Americans: 200 uncommon African, Asian, and other revolutionaries who do not even posess tanks, helicopters, planes, satellites, Starlifter air transports, F15s, nor even have a 1 ship navy have outsmarted 14,000 American intel officials and strategically outsmarted the US military for 11 years. Epic Fail or epic corporate moneymaker?
If our friends are like Pakistan, then, we will never find them.
I just took a poop that looked just like Alah. Smelled like him too.
Oh it's the potty talk boy- so are you in the 4th or 5th grade junior?
muwahahaha
I hope you didn't forget to flush the Muhammad.
that is purty funny indeed
!
First of all, it's Allah. Secondly, Allah is the God of Abraham. Are you comparing the God of Abraham to your feces?
I do not belive we were created from some divine being so it does not matter to me. All of my droppings look like some sore of religious figure.
raddave...not according to Abraham!
Oh man! I drank too much Bacardi tonight. Now I have the Hersey Squirts...
Oh Dear!
Ka Boom! Ka Boom! Ka Boom!
72 luquid type runny goo virgins are now floating in my toilet.
Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye! Eye!
I feel much better now.
If you guys want to act like imbeciles, then please go to Fox Forum where the rest of the ignorant, uneducated people are. This is a public forum, and the adults in the room are not impressed with your idiotic, sophomoric rants.
that's funny Indy Patriot, I come to this forum to read ignorant, uneducated posts from people like you.
Public forum=anyone can post here, anything they want within reason.
Who really cares what impresses you? Your wishes and desires are irrelevant.
Once you done, what you've done, you won't be able to gain any prosperity
Drones.
Its going to be a sad carpet bombing of homes made of twigs.
Or they may infiltrate into the democratic movement.
Christianity took over the Roman Empire.
Anthony Weiner's muslim wife, Huma Abedin, is highly placed in Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's staff, with access to highly confidential materials. She is heavily tied to the Muslim Brotherhood:
http://www.examiner.com/public-safety-in-national/rep-weiner-s-wife-tied-to-the-muslim-brotherhood.
I forgot to add; What do you think Islam is up to?
Islam is trying to impose its version of world peace: everyone converted to one religion(Islam), unconverted Jews and Christians forced into dhimmitude(2nd class citizens w/ no rights) and all godless pagans and apostates beheaded or otherwise eliminated.
Brent you do know that the examiner.com is basically a blog right? As it is written by professional amatures. Your are going to have do better than that. I think your fear of Muslims is getting the better of you.
Islam only plays in their own poop with sticks. Islam is sick. They all should drink the kool aide.
So, should I place links to NBC or ABC? Haven't both been recently caught fudging info about this Trayvon situation? I think my link has more credibility than anything you may use.
Brent Guthrie: Use more than one unrelated source unless you are a GOP spammer. Your argument is false because it is over generalizing. One could swap the word for Christianity for Islamic and make the same general accusation. Did not The Inquisition and the much smaller Salem Witch Trials take that same route? Yes. The Muslim Brotherhood will never outspend nor out lie the cretins in AIPAC.
DOU44...it's clear that you don't know anything about Islam (let alone AIPAC). Suffice to say that there is nothing in the teachings of Christianity, or in the example set by Jesus, that says "Kill all the infidels". Not so, Islam.
Unless you agree with their ability to remain as unregistered foreign agents lobbying the US gov't you might take issue with my calling them liars. I'll even say that AIPAC are unlawful scoundrels. I looked in a Koran several years ago for the direct quote at the school library, and I did not find " ... kill all the infedels. " Some radicals have used it for political or personal gain, and the US-Zionist Right loves the inference. Explain Lebanon, explain Iraq, explain Iran, explain Syria... Old, complex societies that have had their arrangement for sharing power until the US-UK tries to upset the balance of power with illegal foreign money bribes and threats or to actually overthrow these gov'ts as in Iran 1953 and Iraq beginning in the 1960s- bringing Hussein to power- and 2003 allowing a civil war to ensue.
Livia most of the terrorists groups that hate infidels and want to destroy the U.S. were actually once supported by the U.S. to fight the soviets. Look who aided OBL and the AlQada to fight the Soviets, and the same goes for Saddam. Pakistan who is probably going to be our next enemy is also aided by the U.S. These monsters are created taught by us, they learned our tactics of brainwashing the masses. Just as you are brainwashed into hating all Muslims when there is obviously a radical agenda and then there are Muslims who just want to pray in peace.
Phenomenal112--I don't hate Muslims; I am simply informed about the reality of Islam and its aims.
Dou44--when you read the entire Koran, I guess you missed Sura 9, verse 29: "Fight those who believe not in Allah."
And Sura 9, verse 123: "O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
And Sura 48, verse 29: "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves."
And maybe you're not familiar with the Hadith, such as Sahih Muslim 33: "I have been commanded to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah."
And Sahih Muslim 4366: "I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims."
And maybe you have not read any biographies of Muhammad, and learned the example he set. I'll tell you this: Jesus he wasn't.
There are so many more examples. Do you remember what the Qur'an says to do to those who oppose Islam?
Try Sura 5, verse 33: "The punishment for those who oppose Allah and his apostle [Muhammad] and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned."
Heck. he wasn't even Ted Kennedy! Or even Paul Simon!!
Let alone Joseph Smith or L Ron Hubbard...
Hold on to that though Livia, let me get a hold of a Koran and cross reference. I hope you did not get these verses from the Internet.
@livia: "No kill all the infidels" quote as you stated in your first rebuttal. Just as I found- you used something that does not exist for political purposes. Your entire argument is suspect due to your own exposure. The Bible has numerous references to Jews smiting ever numerous mythological enemies as well. Should that be taken as anyone who is not Jewish should be executed? Using your disingenousness, I guess one could make that claim could they not?
@livia: Sura 5 verse 33: No such chapter or verse exists. Shahih Muslim 4366 there no such chapter nor verse. Either a major state university history dept. was scammed, or you are posting purposely mythology. There is a chapter called al-Humazah ( The Slanderer ) and one called al-Kafirun ( The Unbelievers ) verse 6 " So, for you is your way and for me is mine."
Over-generalizing DOU? The ultimate goal of Islamic shariah is pretty simplistic. The desire for world domination need not be complicated. The methods however........
@ lavia you must have a different Koran because the one I was able to get a hold of says this for Sura 9 verse 123 also known as repentence:
"O you who believe! Fight the Unbelievers who grid you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him" I think you have the wrong context, It is saying to harden yourself against those who try to change your faith but be firm with them. Know God is with those who fear him. I know fearing God is something different from the Church where we are supposed to love God. The "fight" is referring to the plight of the non-Muslims who try to change their Muslim views.
Sura 48 verse 29 reads also known as Victory: "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. You will see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are thier marks, (being) the traces of his prostrating. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unvelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness and a great Reward." Note that the blade reference is not an actual blade but the roots that grow from a seed as Muslim would with his/her religion. The word strong means does not mean kill them but to harden themselves who try to sway them from the religion.
Hadith is a compilation of people who were among Muhammad, though Muslim people take it very seriously, I would make that the primary source of all Muslim believes. His biography is debatable, he did marry a widow almost twice his age, and when she died he married someone 13 which is considered Pedophilia in to days age was considered women hood at that time, life expectancy was also like 50 at that time. He had many wives. I can see why people might take offence to it, but, it doesn't say in the Quran that you must marry many wives, just that you can. Yes he was not Jesus, Jesus was not married, and he went into the Heavens, his story ended much quicker that Mohammed.
Although I will say this Sura 5 vers 33 which is called The Table Spread is very unmerciful: "The punishemnt of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is their in the Heareafter."
This is a bit of a radical statement, but you have to understand that it is basically saying those who wage war against God and/or prophet Muhammad, are susceptible to extreme punishments. I know the punishments are cruel, but it basically is saying to punish those who wage war on religion with the intent of mischief. Basically those who want to destroy the Muslim religion for ill intent. Freedom of speech is one thing but it is basically saying to punish Crusaders who take matters into their own hads for their own gain.
I know that not everything in Islam agrees with the western world, but atleast get the translations straight.
I don't know what translations you have been reading, I am reading the translations by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. I just hope you did not attain a copy of the Koran which is translated by the Taliban.
Dou44--Good try! But no cigar!
Funny that you ask -- but no, I don't get my knowledge of Islam off the internet. I did my doctoral studies in the department of Near Eastern Languages and Literatures, majoring in Arabic with a specialty in the Early Islamic period. When I read the Qur'an I usually read it in Arabic. Fi lughat-il-arabiyya, for you Arabic speakers out there. Classical Arabic. Arabiyya al-fuskha.
Phenom--a different Qur'an? There are several different translations, of course. But what you quote above CONFIRMS exactly what I wrote. Sura 9, verse 123: "O you who believe! Fight the Unbelievers..." Exactly what I said.
And there are so many more examples. Plus--you can see it acted out all over the world, every day on the news.
Dou44--the quotes that you say "do not exist" are from the Hadith. I believe I said that when I gave the citations. Hadith is also canonical in Islam.
Look, instead of quibbling over small details, let's face the overriding facts. Islam is an all-consuming political and social system that calls for a totalitarian one-world government under an Islamic caliph and the brutal and barbaric Shari'ah law.
It calls for world domination by every means possible, including violence, war, deception, manipulation, and forced conversion by the sword (or any other lethal threat).
According to Islam--go ahead and look this up--the entire world is divided into two parts. What do you think they are? Male and female? Animal and vegetable? Living and inorganic?
The two parts of the world, in the view of Islam, are: 1) the Dar al-Islam [the Realm of Islam]...and 2) the Dar al-Harb [the Realm of War]. That's it.
And guess what we've got, all around the world, everywhere an Islamic state borders on a non-Islamic one: that's right. War.
How do you think it happened that almost the entire Middle East--most of which (with the exception of the Persian Empire, which used to be Zoroastrian) was Christian--is now almost entirely Muslim?
How do you think it happened that the Arabian Penninsula, which in the year 600 AD was divided amongst Christians, Jews, and the Arabian animistic religions--is now entirely Muslim?
How do you think it happened that much of formerly-Buddhist East Asia, and formerly-Hindu Pakistan and Bangla Desh, are now Muslim?
I have to go--to be continued. : )
About Muhammad: Muhammad is considered in Islam to be "the best human being", whose example everyone should emulate. He married some 30+ women (some put the number as low as 27, saying others were not wives but rather slaves or captives). He made his name and fortune, and won most of his converts, through military exploits in which he killed, by conservative estimates, tens of thousands during his reign as Prophet of Islam.
Eyewitnesses among his loyal Companions describe the streets of Medina running with blood after one of his massacres. He and his then pre-teenaged wife Ayesha sat and watched the carnage as wave after wave of unarmed men were brought forward to have their heads cut off in front of the couple.
Muhammad married his favorite wife, Ayesha, when she was 6 years old, and consummated the marriage when she was all of 9. In case your mind has gotten numb and you've forgotten what a 9-year-old girl is like: that's child rape.
So, for those who believe all religions are more or less the same, let me repeat: Jesus he wasn't.
According to Shari'ah, the penalty for apostasy (leaving Islam) is death.
The penalty for being an infidel (not accepting Islam) [with the one exception SOMETIMES accorded to Christians and Jews, "the People of the Book", under condition of dhimmitude (subordinate status) and the paying of the jizya, a stiff annual fine for the privilege of being a dhimmi, and several restrictions on one's behavior] is death.
The penalty for "insulting Islam", or Muhammad, or any of his Helpers or Companions or the Rightly Guided...is death.
The penalty for "heresy" (having your own interpretation or understanding of Islam)...is death.
Under the common practice in Islamic-ruled lands, the penalty for a girl who "dishonors" her family (that can mean, by wearing western clothes, or talking to a boy)...is death.
The penalty for being raped, if one isn't honor-killed by one's family, is imprisonment, flogging, and/or being forced to marry the rapist.
These are the facts. Islamic history amply bears them out. Some 270 million people dead at the hands of Islamic jihad over the 14 centuries of Islam's existence bear them out.
Allah is a god that requires his believers to murder in his name. You've heard it at the beheadings, the bombings, the stabbings: "Allahu akbar!".
So are the Sunni and Shia supposed to just kill each other, based on your interpretations?
Many of the other large amounts of the world's trash is in Africa, why shouldn't AL Qaida? They have brothers in Somali called Pirates. Many countries, decimated by AIDS and civil war, are ripe for take over and that spawns Al Qaida. What a mess.
Follow global instability. The Bad Guys need places like this to build a nest. Spend the SuperPac Money currently wasted on US Elections in places like these to build roads, bridges, and especially schools, and the hope for the future will eradicate the nests.
Idealism at its best?
Al Qaida.....Kill them all...anywhere you find them.....no negotiations, no prisoners,
live by the sword and die by the sword.
Do not stop hunting and killing them....they will never stop killing us. There is no going back.
Iraq and Afghanistan are only the beginning battles, the new World War III is coming soon.
Extermination of evil is the only way to cure the world of these mad men.
I see you posting but not hunting, I hope you live by your word.
JIW is an Xbox warrior.
He is going to kill all the Al Qaida terrorists in call of duty.
Actually he was responsible for many deaths of the radical islamist. Now he just wants to get the rest of them and do'em.
Heh, Osama's boys are quickly running out of continents.
No....they're not.
Their presence has expanded, they just do not have a centralized location.
They've even moved back into Iraq.
We waste thousands of young American lives and trillions of borrowed dollars fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and then occupying these countries for years. Meanwhile our more dangerous enemys regroup while we are wasting time and treasure in these 2 un-winnable wars.
Absolutely!!! As far as the entire Middle East is concerned, the grapes have been mashed, all of the other ingredients have been added, It's time to cork the barrel and see if we get wine or vinegar.
They are cornered in Africa because we kept fighting these two un-winable wars. Although, we had just beefed up security based on CIA reports, then we would not be fighting these wars in the first place.
Ya..and ur ass has been safe for the last 11 yrs. So stop bitching.
Yeah. Sure, Vinny. Our illegal wars of aggression have kept me "safe" all these years. Nevermind the fact that our oppression of other cultures for monetary gain is what foments the hatred of American policy in the first place.
You just keep believing that it is necessary to continually fight wars all over the world to fend off some fictitious, overestimated "threat" to our "freedom".
The biggest threat to my life and my constitutional liberties does not come from a foreign entity, but rather my own government.
Afew thugs called AlQueda. Guess we need to cause two more wars. When actually we pay the CIA on handling afew thugs in other countries. What happened to them days?
Bush/Cheney wanted the increase in military industrial complex stock prices, so they started a war. Having the CIA rough up some thugs does not increase the value of military industrial complex stocks. This is speculation of course.
But you have nailed one of the corp-gov benfits of a long, unwinnable "war." Really big money payoffs for Boeing, Lockheed, GE, and Halliburton.
Bingo, and Bingo!
They must all die, nomatter where they try and go on this planet. Kill them and their families. None of them are innocent. Anyone of them will strap on a bomb. F' em all. Islam is a violent, hate filled, intollerent religion of death. The world communities must continue to hunt, find and destroy them for as many years as it takes..
Very ignorant, but say what you must. A few members of OBL's family lives here in the U.S. Are you going to kill them?
@ brent. Yes it is, much as the Christian religion did in its infancy. The Inquisition, The Crusades, trying to impose its will on any and everyone. The pope commanded an army for cryin' out loud. DO NOT GO OR THINK AGAINST THE CHURCH ! ! ! Ye shall be burned at the stake or worse, if there is such a thing. Islam is something like 700 to 1,000 years behind Christianity chronologically, I think.(maybe wrong or slightly off on that) So the time-line and the corresponding behavior, seem to coincide somewhat. Now, how many unrecorded civilizations and religions came before Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or Islam? History repeats itself. The real trick is learning from it. Have we?
capt.........If Christians had the fire power back then like the thousand years behind Islamists have now all the jihadists would only be a small foot note in World history (the Crusades of old have nothing to do with these fools)
Nothing but another winning-less war on drugsterrorists that will drag on for years and years to come. It's shame the American people don't have what it takes to put a stop to this. And where the hell are the militias...seems they to have just become beer drinking loudmouths. The founding fathers are rolling in their graves right now.
Our founding fathers never could have imagined that we would ever have interests in the middle east. They never even heard of cars, or thought slavery would be abolished etc. If you want liberty, you must take it. When we try to force into people, we are the ones who end up looking bad and it costs us trillions of dollars doing it.
The war is at a "critical moment": We've been hearing this for over a decade.
Been hearing that since Nam.
The people of Uganda have struck oil. If one looks at the videos that Alex Jones had on his website you would indeed see that the people of Uganda have struck oil. That a young girl whose parents live in Uganda state that Joseph Kony died 5 years ago and has not been heard from for 6 years. That things have been peaceful there. Here you even see the controlling greedy stealing from oithers and using Ideology and Propaganda in which to try to stay in control and extort money from others.
People and nations have been stealing from Africa for thousands of years, but hey don't let the 21st century change any of that.
If one looks at the videos that Alex Jones has on his website they will also discover that the CIA for one is supporting Al-Qaida.
People need to steer away from mainstream media for a while and switch to alternate news. RT, Drudge Report and many others are reporting facts which the mainstream media does not want the people to hear. People need to understand something, mainstream media keeps people in the dark while feeding them sh#t and the results are human mushrooms.
Ahhhh. It is getting to be known how deeply the deceipt runs.
Tick Tick Tick...
BOOM!
vermontguy. Al Qaeida does not need to invade and take over any part of Africa. They can go to different countries in Africa and get the different warlords there to be on their side. The dangerous part would be if Al Qaeida got all these groups that fight each other to join together. That would be bad. But we do have I believe it's called the north African command. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with them already in place it wouldn't take as long to act or react to a situation. Remember we had no troops near Afghanistan when the &h!t hit the fan in 2001.