I agree. We are going to start seeing this type of thing here in the US if we don't start backing away from the 'the government knows best' mentality.

Witnesses said the man put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger after yelling out: "I have debts, I can't stand this anymore."

We need to move back towards an idea of personal responsibility and looking out for one's self aside from what may be promised to you so that people don't start committing suicide here when the government doesn't give them everything they need.

The give you everything government has to crash sometime. I would rather live a somewhat finacially restricted lifestyle to get out of this than see my grandkids in the position Greece is in now.

lonereb, be prepared, we'll be watching this roll across Europe with the US not far behind.

An entire nation cannot borrow together for decades and then hope that all will be fine when the pay back time arrives. Google for "DEFLATIONARY CRASH" to understand the danger waiting for all of us! Deflation cannot be prevented after credit inflation runs it's course. Greatest Depression will dwarf Bernanke's printing press.

stonedog you already have seen this in the United States.Entire Families wiped out because of desperation!

I can hardly wait to see the DOW reports later today.

Yesterday it reported a "minor retraction" when the DOW closed down over 100 points and is now approaching -160.

And the IMF is waiting in the wings with it's NEXT "recovery plan", based upon an increase in participating Nations fees, all in the name of the fraudster bankers.

Yep, Mr. Bernanke had to go out and get more ink for the printing presses.

We need to move back towards an idea of personal responsibility and looking out for one's self

So you support what he did? I mean' it was the ultimate act of personal responsibilty.

SteveJ - that isn't even remotely funny.

stonedog...

Are you really that ignorant? This man was a pharmasist. Did you even read the article?

LOL

I'm sorry, Kim. I sometimes forget in posting here that I need to spell everything out for the easily confused. What I meant by

'move back towards an idea of personal responsibility'

is that people should be planning for old age as if there was no "safety net" in this country so that when our government finally outgrows its britches, those people will have a way to survive without relying on a government that has nothing to give.

This guy's being a pharmacist has nothing to do with that.

Stonedog,

These things happen when voters support leaders who talk about personal responsibility, while they casually and coldly outsource our jobs and technological future for pennies on the dollar, so that their investor buddies can reap huge marketshare in emerging third world economies, while undercutting ours due to their excessive greed. When we outsource jobs, we also loose investment and a portion of our tax-base. Having leaders who shift the blame to those that they exploit is also a failure of personal responsibility, as any knowledgeable person is aware that with great power, also comes great responsibility...

This country has far more resources than Greece and control over its own currency. We will inflate ourselves out of trouble, just as we have in the past, while decimating retirement savings and fixed income folks.

We also have an enormous economy that generates a decent income for govt expenditures. Our problem is how we allocate that income. DoD spending has to go down while we restructure our investments in education, medical coverage, and economic infrastructure. All these things need a complete overhaul.

Only your multinational Euro bank care for a solution. The easiest solution is this:

Greece says FU to the European Union and to paying off debt.

The EU says FU to Greece and kicks them out.

Oh, no! What would German Banks do then?! Still make money.

Don't give me some moral BS arguement either. Nobody who matters is using a moral arguement. They are just trying to make as much money as they can.

Thank you, Jay. Well said.

Just another troll making remarkably distasteful comments. SteveJ----find something else to do with your time. Apparently you believe everyone that is unemployed is in that state by choice.

There are plenty of career moochers in this country. Those that take that free ride burning up the tax dollars of those of us that are working. You know, the people that should be forced to do the jobs only the illegal immigrants will apparently do. Yes, that other burden on our countries resources works harder than actual American citizens. Then there are the folks that have families, lost their job because of downsizing and have been desperately in search of employment ever since. Because there are so few jobs in this formerly emplyment heavy country and the option of moving to China is just not all that appealing you think the next step is to just end it. Bravo you pathetic piece of.............

Besides crooked polititians and corporate thieves we have the SteveJ's of the world to remind us about all the idiots we have to deal with in everyday life.

Kim,

He is listed as a "retired pharmacist". So what's your point? He was most likely protesting the reduction in government support for retirees, and thus the comments about needing to be wary of a society that becomes dependant on the government for financial support.

Jay

Do you know why outsourcing occurs?

It's because people like to make it prohibitively expensive to run companies here while trying to remain economically competitive on the world stage.

You can't get angry at people who respond to money grubbers by moving the money out of reach. ;)

Well written Subliminal. Too many brainwashed people think Obama is god and that he can do no wrong.

Jay,

Why does the proposed need for personal responsibility have to morph into a diatribe about outsourcing and job loss? Isn't it possible that we can learn how to be a responsible society without continually clashing over political arguments?

For example, social security. All arguments aside over how to change it... how to fund it... how to invest it... we should all agree that it is a system that was never... NEVER... designed to be a sole source of income in retirement.

"I can't afford to save." should never be an excuse. Cut out the cell phone.... cut out the cable TV... save now for the future. Tthose are the actions of someone taking personal responsibility.

Very well put Jay. It isn't about relying on our government, it's about putting responsible people in office that are for the people-------ALL the people, not just the 1% boys club. Corporate crooks + crooked politians = the financial ruin of the country.

Wallstreet thieves + no accountablilty = business as usual.

It's the regulatory fine line. Make the rules impossible for the home team and then take what the away team will give you. In other words, we have rules to follow in this country which they claim drove manufacturing overseas.

The most important question that needs to be answered is this----why is it that we can import products from an unregulated country when manufacturers can't break those rules here? Politians created the rules to make our drinking water safe, the air we breathe safe then allow their rich lobbyist buddies to use the excuse that they can't afford to manufacture here anymore and make an obscene profit.

If this "World economy" is to continue then there needs to be equality in the system. All the rules should apply to everyone when it comes to buisness. This would be tough to pull off now that China owns all of our debt.

In the end it is broken because of greed and greed alone. Simple as that.

A retired Greek pharmacist shot himself dead outside Greece's parliament Wednesday, saying he refused to scrounge for food in the garbage, touching a nerve among ordinary Greeks feeling the brunt of the country's economic crisis.

You would think a pharmacist would have done better for himself.

Another passerby told Greek television the man said, "I don't want to leave my debts to my children."

A message we all need to take to heart when we pull the lever in November.

Steve

The post was more of a social commentary designed to ridicule the notion that
blowing one's brains out is not an effective form of protest. To me the act
seems more one of cowardice, or self-aggrandizing rather than any real sort of
martyrdom. It was in fact meant facetiously, but I was aware that it also might
read as a crass attempt at humor. There is at its heart a modicum of truth.

This is still the economy created by Bush and Cheney for the benefit of 1%. Obama inherited an out-of-control Republican train wreck and thank God to him and the Democrats they put a floor under it before it totally crashed. Obama and the Democrats pulled us back from the brink. They didn't cause the problem. What we need is a tax policy that taxes American company money, no matter where it is stashed. Apple needs to be taxed on that $100 Billion sitting in off-shore accounts, whether they repatriate it or not. Same for IBM, HP, eBay, Google, Yahoo, and all the others. Then, there needs to be a surtax on accumulated wealth, and on incomes over $500,000, until such time as the debt is paid off.

Devil,

It would perhaps create more jobs within the criminal jusice system. OOPs that means more taxes!

one in five is jobless

Wow, worse than the Reagan 80's when it was 10.8% in the US!

for those calling for a reduction in "debt spending" - be careful what you wish for.

the reality is that debt isnt a bad thing, the problem with debt becomes real when you have no means to pay back on the debt.

in theory, so long as there is work to be found, you can find a paycheck to EARN in order to pay off your debts.

so why do those holding all the marbles get to decide there's no work that can be done, and everyone just has to suck it - even though we look around and see plenty of work that DOES NEED TO BE DONE?

money isnt real, it's a tool...it's value is what we make it, and when we COLLECTIVELY decide it has no value, people everywhere get screwed.

we are currently deciding that there is no work, there is no money, there is nothing ANYONE can do but work for free...for the greater good that is...and eventually, the ship will right itself.

thats the story being shovelled - by the "leaders holding all the marbles"...and by the idiots on vines like this, doing their blind bidding...having no clue that at some point, it will be them in bondage working for free paying off a debt they didnt create, but needs paying off anyway.

if thats the world you want to live in...be my guest, continue to perpetuate that world.

as for me, i'll watch it burn around me while the rich laugh and giggle at how stupid and sheep like all are, and how easily we can be made into slaves...when just a few years ago, our hard work supposedly had "value".

Jessica-1170252 -- Exactly. Greece spent more than it took in, but the real problem was they weren't taking anything in because no one was paying their taxes, especially the rich. Then with austerity measures (e.g., starve the beast), unemployment skyrocketed even higher. The United States and other countries most certainly should learn from these lessons, starting with revenue increases via the rich paying their fair share.

Suicide has increased in the US as well, but it's just not reported. I've seen only one news report about a suicide after losing a home to foreclosure. I guess the error is these American citizens are not doing it in public like this man -- in front of the Teapublican House of congress. Shame on society and the Teabagger "me, Me, ME" mentality, shame on the Koch brothers of the world, and most of all shame on the politicians who are bought and paid for.

I should have edited to add:

I think this guy did the right thing, and put in the same situation id do it too.

I have no problem working hard and paying off my debts, but i'll draw the line at being made into a slave just because the rich and powerful CAN DO IT.

if we all just killed ourselves, who would pay the debts then?

no one, thats who.

California is already like Greece 8( We are constantly in the Red and the Democrats who hold power in Sacramento want to raise our taxes again come this November.. Hopefully the people of California will send another loud message No More Taxes we already pay more than the rest of the nation.

True Patriot - I agree!

though, I think all things deserve balance - and I dont quite comprehend how and why credit card companies and mortgage companies can LEND money to a person who hasnt shown an ability to pay off on their debts, more than just the minimums.

the reality is, without credit card debt...our economy wouldnt be what it is.

if every american suddenly took "personal responsibility" our economy would fall off a cliff.

and the reality is, ecnomies are like dominoes...once they start falling down, it's hard to stop it until there's a break in the chain.

but by that point, the damage is done.

It's ironic (not really) that everyone on here is bemoaning Greece (the nation and it's politicians) from overborrowing and having no means to pay it back.

and yet, what are they doing to address this crisis?

Slash govt spending - and borrow more money (the govt spending slash was the prerequisite in order to get the bridge loan).

Explain how thats suppose to work?

If I lost my job, cant pay my mortgage...

how does borrowing more money help me?

WOULDNT JOBS BE THE REAL ANSWER?

yes...it always is. WORK IS WHAT HAS VALUE, NOT MONEY.

Just give me OBAMACARE and mandate the euthanasia of the old geezers. Sure tighten up some spending, but if we can just have the Supreme Court do the right thing, then we don't have to worry about Medicare and Social Security! We can just humanely put em all down before it bankrupts us! My great president has it all figured out....Dont worry! Just re-elect him!

Big Al - and you guys already "earn more" in your paychecks than the rest of the nation.

So paying more, only makes sense.

stupid cost of living, perhaps if a 1 bedroom apt didnt cost over $1000 over there, people could spend their money in the actual economy, thereby creating more jobs, thereby pulling people off welfare, thereby reducing the overall tax burden.

eh, too logical and anti-capitalism.

Big Al,

California will continue this trend until the State is no longer enslaved to the public unions. 20% -30% of the voting population has a vested interest in keeping tax rates high, and the money flowing to their pockets.

The lesson is that we need to stop relying on government to take care of us, because eventually it won't. Greece's government is basically socialist with all the promises of a full fledged welfare state. The problem with that and any other system that relies on wealth redistribution is that eventually most people cut back on work since there is no reward for extra effort and they expect society will meet all their needs anyway. Those who want to go the extra distance either quit or leave to seek greener pastures where hard work and intelligence are rewarded. That's what brought down the USSR, that's what is bringing down Greece. It will bring us down too, if we keep on demanding more care and security from our government instead of relying on our own selves.

O - *face palm

nice to see the "euthanasia" being peddled.

not like people (not even old ones) without insurance arent dying already right??

oh, we arent suppose to discuss reality?

or are we not coining that euthanasia, just like we recoined genoicide in the early days of America as "manifesting destiny".

*wink, wink

I gotcha now!

Coming soon to a country near and dear to us. All hail Obama, destroyer of our children's future. The socialist academics are hard at work teaching the young revisionist history so they will never know the greatness that this country once was. They will only know socialism and despair.

I was watching the new show on TV--"Doomsday Preppers." For some reason, I'm paying very close attention to what these folks are doing and how they are doing it. One of the scenarios of when the s**t hits the fan is a global financial meltdown. Greece is getting pretty close to this scenario right now, and I think the dominoes will start falling fairly quickly after that.

Am I prepared? Not as much as I would like, but I think I'm ahead of the curve a bit on a number of things. We should pay attention to what's happening. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know that we, as a global economy, are headed in the pretty much the wrong direction. The most I can personally do is prepare the best I can.

I feel for that poor man and his family in Greece. He just couldn't get beyond the moment, and he may not have been able to, at any rate. It makes me question so much. On the other hand, it also plants the resolve that I will continue preparing for a survival campaign. When our money becomes worthless, what will we barter with for our survival needs? Do we realize that our current government can tax us for what we barter? Is that going to happen with the ways the political landscape is shaping up to be? When do we say enough is enough? So many questions, so little time.

Best wishes to all.

Steve J - and those people are "WORKING" right?

I'd rather 20-30% (though 40-50% sounds better) have the money flowing to their pockets

than the 1-2% that you're advocating for.

Let me guess, you're one of those people who foolishly thinks you're closer to the top than the bottom?

Wow Jessica, I have to say, to me you sound like such a victim. The big bad rich people and the big bad government. Poor you.

Gotta love the right wing spin machine.

What exactly did Greece do wrong?

It provided social supports . . . in a society where everyone avoids paying taxes . . . that were unffordable

It followed Europe's approach with crushing austerity measure (putting everyone out of work) further cutting its tax base.

Obama followed his fed's lead and made money readily available and directly supported putting people back to work ---- even if the deficit must rise for a period. He has tried to fix the inane mis-balance of taxation that gives more and more gifts to the rich.he has tried to fix the long-term survivability of SS and Medicare. He has tried to

It followed Europe's approach with crushing austerity measure (putting everyone out of work) further cutting its tax base.

And what alternative? Spending money they didn't have, and that no one would lend them anymore? Can't be done. Unsustainable entitlement programs led them here, promises to provide other peoples' money in quantity unsustainable to the economy. The money is gone. Austerity was a foregone conclusion. It was coming to Greece managed by their government, or NOT. That's not spin, it's reality.

We may still have the time to alter our course, and prevent a similar fate.

zapper - i watch that show too.

"On the other hand, it also plants the resolve that I will continue preparing for a survival campaign. When our money becomes worthless, what will we barter with for our survival needs?"

it strikes me as funny that christians (and im not sure if you are one) cant fathom a world where we cooperate and help each other survive, rather...everyones making the mad dash towards SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST and preparing to kill every person that even comes near them.

Ultimately, no one is really interested in working together NOW to avoid disaster, even though all we seem to believe we are all headed off the proverbial cliff.

Reality is this - if/when a financial collapse occurs, the top 1% arent going to care or notice...

the rest of us will be paying for it.

so im a little confused on why everyone is so eager to protect the ultra rich from higher taxation.

moving them up to 50% taxation on the top 1-2% would put so many people to work, but horrors we "take from the rich" what they didnt really earn in the first place.

there is no amount of work in this world that can earn a person the kind of money the ultra rich have acquired...thats just reality.

Steve J - im not a victim of anything, anymore than you are.

But, werent we talking about "big bad govts ruining the world through out of control spending"

hypocrit much?

Yasmak - "We may still have the time to alter our course, and prevent a similar fate"

except we wont, because we wont raise taxes on the ultra rich even though they are at historic lows.

Who would you rather be, the guy making $40K a year paying 10% tax

or the guy making 1 Million a year, paying 50% tax?

that seems like a real tough call...i mean, is 500,000 really enough?

those poor, poor rich people. always getting screwed.

Jessica,

I don't advocate for anyone, but I don't demonize everyone that has made money. As a matter of fact, I am very aware where I stand in the economic scheme. I also understand that there are those that are unscrupulous and will protect their fortunes by any means possible.

I am first and foremost a realist. I recognize that an economy cannot support for any long trm period, policies of unchecked social programs and spending. This is why the Soviet Union has collapsed, why China has moved into a controlled capitalistic economic system and why so many nations in the European union are becoming economically unstable. I also understand the "evils" of untethered capitalism, but given the choice, I am much more comfortable with competing in the business world than with the government.

Capitalism, coupled with democracy, at least offers the opportunity to be self reliant and mange your financial destiny. I recognize the need for limited social programs, but resent the ignorance of those who think that they deserve or expect to be wholly provided for by the government. We have allowed the government to raid the tax coffers, while they throw out a bone to the voters.

Bottom line, anyone comparing Greece to the US both in terms of debt and ability to pay are complete @!$%#ing morons. Apples and Oranges my friends.

Long term in a global economy, a $40K will be a thing of the past for nearly everyone. The following are the average salaries (expressed in USD) for nations which manufacture our goods and write our software...

• $4,800 Hospital staff
• $4,900 College / University
• $5,900 Self-Employed
• $9,500 Government - Federal
• $3,500 Education / Schools
• $7,900 Private Practice/Firm

www.payscale.com/research/IN/Country=India/Salary#by_Employer_Type

xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=299000&From=INR&To=USD

The rich need to pay their fair share....blah, blah, blah....they're footing the bill for 70% of the country....I'd say they're doing their fair share. The problem is we have too many people in the US who want the govt to provide them with everything...we are growing into a nation of dependency (if not already there)...

Here in the US we had two generations that had pentions retired at a early age of 55 collected the pention loger then they worked for the company plus social security and medicare, sucking all of use dry. Now there kids the baby boomers want there cake and eat it to. talk about a lack of personal resposiblity and they are the generation who closed the pentions doors behind them and now crying about the possible cuts to social security and medicare. There plan is to raise the next generation age to collect and cut medical coverage, so they can collect there full benifits and suck use even more dry.

I say here's a bullet use it wisely.

Globalization will give western nations a personal income which will be approximately 15% of today's amount. There is no financial plan (federal government or personal) which can solve the problems of western countries... with current trade policies. People keep ignoring the technology which has accelerated all of these issues.

Is already happening in the US. Will only get worse.Do not forget the Congress is the ENABLER as they have colluded with corporates / cartels / wall street financial juggernauts to rip us off and leave us hollow. When the 'gates' are refashioned to funnel wealth into the pockets of a few then how can one take responsibility for something that is beyond your control? And then there is the Federal Reserve ? Any accountability - anywhere ?

This man lost hope because he errantly believed he could live on other people's money. Now Greece has ran out of other peoples money, leaving folks like him in a lurch because he believed the Socialist mantra. I also bet the govt. had control over how much money he could make. Let alone, did he make stupid mistakes, spending beyond his means? There are many unanswered questions. But those posters who say this could be the United States soon are spot on. As long as we think we can spend beyond our means, we will continue down that road.

"This is the point to which they've brought us," asked 54-year old Maria Parashou, who rushed to the square to pay her respects after reading about the suicide. "They've cut our salaries, they've humiliated us. I have one daughter who is unemployed and my husband has lost half of his income, but I won't allow myself to lose hope."

I'm assuming "they" are the govt. Funny thing, the govt. gave based on strong arming by the Unions. Could it be you really have the Unions to blame for this? Yes I can blame the govt. for caving in to their demands, but the true responsible party is the Unions for forcing this. Unions have historically made demands that were not based on the money available, that was not relevant to them, only padding their pockets. It is incredibly ignorant to ask for more than is available and then "lose hope" when you found out your gravy train has ended and now you have to accept reality. This is the big downfall of Public Sector Unions. They should be outlawed. This is already happening to us now.

Globalization will give western nations a personal income which will be approximately 15% of today's amount.

www.payscale.com/research/IN/Country=India/Salary#by_Employer_Type
xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=299000&From=INR&To=USD

The fruit of an open door policy. $5-10K/year USD. Enjoy.

Hold on to your a$$es, people - If history repeats itself (and it does), we are in for it. Just by the direction of too many comments, we are already going down an ugly path. Nationalism and radical things are not far off.

I find it frustrating that too many of you can't wrap your heads around the fact that this is criminal activity on the part of a worldwide banking cartel. This is happening globally - and Greece is just the first to fall. Spain is close behind.

There is no turning back now. WE will also see times of unprecedented hardship. This has nothing to do with a society that cares for it's weak and vulnerable citizens, and everything to do with a society that has been occupied by criminal bankers. This started in 1913. This started with fiat currency. You cannot send all manufacturing to one country and not expect there to be massive suffering sooner or later.

Right now, what is happening is financial occupation by Germany. The history books will show just how bad things have gotten. But now, we must live through history. And the poor and middle class are going to suffer tremendously. There will be death, there will be starvation, there will be chaos, loss, and violence. Governments become desperate and do brutal things.

It never fails to happen, that a radical element will arise in a situation like this, with a solution - a vicious, bloody solution. The attacks happen on the weakest people in a society. We are going to see the darker side of man on a systematic level, soon. I see it seeping in right on this board. With talk of "personal responsibility".

Shall we take the retired and send them to some human "glue factory"...? Just what do you Ayn Randers think we should do with the elderly, the disabled, the poor who can't find work because corporations have run rampant GLOBALLY? This is not the fault of the people taking handouts. Most people would rather be self-sufficient. But they have been DRIVEN into poverty. This is the fault of an avaricious minority of men exploiting the entire globe. They think nothing of anihillating entire cultures if they stand in the way of profit.

It is good and right for our government to provide for the elderly, the poor, the disabled. Government must NOT run like a business. Government must do all the things that are not profitable, but are right. Government is supposed to serve the people. Not create empires, and larger and bigger militaries, while facilitating the gutting of the economy by a rapacious few. And that is what has happened.

Good luck to all of you... I think we have months now before the dominoes truly begin to fall. The only good thing of this is, that hopefully, the chaos is bad enough to take down this current economic system, to destroy the banking cartel (Goldman Sachs needs to go, and Wall Street needs to be turned into a farmer's market), and put corporations out of business and communities back to self-sufficiency.

Now I am reading comments that unions should be outlawed! Do you people have any idea how hard our ancestors fought, for the right to unionize? People died - shot by corporate thugs, in front of factories over this!

People unionized to stop the horrendous exploitation of workers. Do you want to be like China? Do you want factory dormitories? 16 hour days? being woken up in the middle of the night with a biscuit and a cup of tea, and off you go to work, because a corporation demands it? Unions were formed to return dignity back to people. To stop chattel practices.

Who are we as a society? Are we a place where the happiness and enjoyment of life matter, or are we a place where we compel people into a kind of wage slavery because other countries are doing it (and it is facilitated by the USA)?

What a shame to see people actually advocating for taking away the voice of the worker. Corporations have done enough already. The damage they have wrought should not be rewarded by blaming the workers for the crimes of the corporations.

I for one do NOT want to return to the days of the company store, and of chattel.

"And The Beat Goes On ....." he trusted his government, and thought they would do the "Right Thing" the honorable thing ... he recognized he was conned .... the economic "Ponzi Scheme" that he bought into, collapsed .. soooooo he did what he felt he had to do .... so would I!

"Whats You Gonna Do ..When The Well Runs Dry?" most of us are in the same position ... we believed the bull@!$%# and lies that were spoon feed to us ... by corrupt & self-serving dishonest politicians & the media and bought into our own "Economic Ponzi.scheme." How many of us will follow this mans example?

BANG ..........

For the most part, a VERY good post, StrengthInNumbers. Most people would rather be self-sufficient. For anyone that still disregards such a historical warning, look at it simply from a business perspective. Just the financials. New ideas and venture capital investment come together where they have the average individual has the financial means to succeed. It is not Asia that is driving innovation...

startup-book.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/vc-global.jpg

A society future is hinged on a holistic approach. Never forget that.

@ StrengthInNumbers - I said "Public Sector Unions." You know, the unions workers who's pay and benefits are paid with Tax dollars from folks in the Private Sector. The Public Sector Unions in this country have created a group of upper class workers on the backs of Middle Class Tax Payers. The Union workers have as high as 40% more pay, better benefits and a retirement plan, which most Private sector workers do not have access to. I'm sure you will say that is their fault, but it is not. The Private Sector has changed keeping in step with reality. You can't sustain a pension plan when the retirees live longer on the plan than they worked in the company. So we are sustaining a pension plan for these Union workers that in the real world is unsustainable, but we have to pay anyway, most of the Union workers don't even contribute to their retirement and if they do, it is a very tiny %. Then we have States who budgets are deeply in the red, but god forbid if the Union workers were to have wage and benefits the same as the Private Sector. The stupid thing is, those of us in the Private sector are doing just fine on our Middle Class pay, yet the Union workers, who have so much more, can't possibly do with less. What's that called?? Self centered GREED.

You only comment that ridding ourselves of unions would bring us back to the days before Unions is totally bogus. We now have govt. agencies regulating all the things the Unions used to stand for. So your comment has zero merit. The Unions are now a hindrance, rather than a plus in our current economy. The Unions have been instrumental in the outsourcing to Asia, due to their greed. How's that working for you, have you missed the portion of your tax money that went to bail out GM? I miss the money I used to make when our company did sub-contract work for the Auto Industry. So now you have "American made cars" made with foreign parts. Is that working for you? Not for me.

willowbrook - I dont know what public sector employees you are talking about. In my state, wages are public information, and for the vast majority (not the politically connected), wages are market rate. I dont know any rich secretary or agent that worked in the government. The fact that wages and benefits have seriously degraded over the last couple of decades doesnt mean that this is acceptable. If the cost of living were to also go down relative to wages, that would be one thing. But that is not the case. Wages have been stagnant, when taking into account inflation, for decades.

Unions are a right. People have the right to assemble. And thats what a union is - a group of people assembling.

It disgusts me to hear you talking of middle and working class people fighting for living wages as "greedy" when the gap between the rich and the poor has never been greater in this country. The greed is at the top of the pyramid, willow - NOT the bottom. You can only move so many bricks from the bottom to the top, before the whole thing comes tumbling down.

I am also trying to figure out just what you think we should do about retirees with these luxurious retirement pensions that allow them to keep the lights on. Given how low salaries are, people aren't able to save for retirement now. A vast swath of the population now has NO retirement plan, other than government aid, and 401Ks were a boondoggle foisted on people by corporations who didnt want to pay into pension plans any longer. This is all fine and well. But willow - what do you think should be done with the elderly, who cant work any longer? Should we ship them off to some island of misfit toys? Leave them in the wilderness to be eaten by wolves? Possibly turn them into soylent green? Please regale me with your thoughts on how we maintain a civilized nation and not leave those that are no longer productive due to advanced years, to die out in the cold.

Pray...

This is the type of thing that massive debt will bring. We are currently headed down that road. This type of thing should serve as a lesson about the evils of massive debt.

Please, what's going on in Greece isn't even close to what's going on in the US. Americans work much much harder, retire way later, and in general American worker productivity is eons past the Greek worker. Sure, the US debt problem is no joke, but the US economy is massive as well -- first in the world.

The Greek problem is more of a internal EU trade deficit. It's kinda like Mississippi being a net intaker of federal tax dollars. The EU has little or no external debt. So the real beef is Germany having to cover all the Greek debt to make sure the Euro doesn't become a joke. But I wouldn't expect all the armchair economists here to understand that.

What a maroon !!

Sorry, but life sucks and nothing is worth ending it over!! Get a life (oh wait, you can't) !!

The Obama zombies just don't get it. You guys just plain suck at math.

"Make the rich pay their fair share!!": If we took every penny from every person in this country with an income over $10mil, we could run the country for less than 3 weeks on it. This is while Obama is handing our money to his donors like candy and letting companies like GE and billionaires like Buffet pay effectively no taxes (hint, the real reason Buffet pays less than his secretary, who is a 1percenter for you guys keeping track, is because he doesn't even pay what he owes).

"Cut defense spending to cover it!": Again, what part of the 800Bil we spend on defense is going to fix the 1.3T deficit? Note: this is one of the few items on our "budget" that is actually required by the Constitution. Speaking of budgets, how the hell do you guys think the Left can fix anything when they can't even put one of those out?!?!

"Debt doesn't matter.": Yeah, tell that to the guy who blew his brains out because of debt, in far more ways than one.

"lt's all the bankers' fault.": Yeah and the fact that people won't pay 10 cent more for something made in the US has nothing to do with it. Nor does the fact that politicians, mostly Progressives and Liberals, have saddled the US with spending 60 percent of our spending on entitlements. Nah, that wouldn't contribute anything to the problem.

If the Left would stop pointing fingers, calling names, and engaging in the same violent and hateful rhetoric they claim everyone else uses, we might actually be able to have an adult conversation about the issue. But when all you guys have are talking points and politicial rhetoric, there's no point.

Now, collapse me and prove me and Teddy right.

To anger a Conservative, lie to him. To anger a Liberal, tell him the truth.

T Roosevelt

Jessica, I don't know about you, but I live in the real world. That fake world of "Christian love" won't cut it when push comes to shove. That will go out the window just about as fast as a bat out of Hell. I've watched it time and time again. Whenever I tried to get my (then) fellow Christians to pull together to help out someone less fortunate, the amount of brotherly/sisterly love was so stingy I was embarrassed by it. I have found a much less "closely" knitted belief system that actually loves and respects others, even if it is at a distance. I wish no harm to anyone, but I won't allow any harm to my own, either.

It would be wonderful if we lived a naive life that was true, that could be trusted, and was well meaning. Unfortunately, it really is a dog eat dog world. If anyone chooses to believe that all will be well in love and splendor, I am not one to try to disillusion you from your point of view. I wish you the best. I, on the other hand, am quite a bit more cynical. I wish I wasn't, but I've been around the block one too many times.

Jessica,

I wish you well also.

Taxing the rich more is not the answer. It was never the answer. You also seem to forget that we all also pay state taxes, property taxes, fica and social security.

As far as Greece goes, you cannot as a country borrow money to artificially increase the standard of living. We as individuals have to stop doing that as well.

Out sourcing is a result of lower prices. Companies like Walmart who seem to just sell on price. That lower price while nice at the time has an effect as well. Same with Internet companies like Amazon. They supply products at a lower price, which is good, but will also cost us jobs.

As far as the richer just getting more money, yep that is going to happen. The more we lower the value of our money the faster that is going to happen.

There is no one easy answer, if any one tells you "if we just do this we will fine" well they are not telling you the truth.

Plan for the worst, and hope for the best, be good to your neighbors and your family.

Stonedog,

Do you consider the Engineers that developed the Computer and Internet Technology that you are presently using "money grubbers" because they don't like their lively-hood being outsourced? I don't know what your concept of outsourcing is, but in it's unregulated mode that has not accomplished balanced trade, it undercuts the very individuals that are developing our technological economic edge. Where does such misinformation originate from that seems to have the attitude that those who are outsourced are somehow not only unimportant players in our society, but somehow also disingenuous individuals? Furthermore, what prevents your job from being outsourced?

InfoTechnology

You are wrong. You see our future as our present progressed. That is not what our future is. Our future is our present progressed squared.

Soon, our products will be printed, cheaply in US factories and shipped out by robots. We may even be printing our products at our own home.

Furthermore, there is no way in holy hell that most of our software will be written by countries where extortion and theft is common place. We *like* writing code. Third world cheap salary coding - you get what you pay for. Untrusthworthy, risky, and shabby.

So serious company outsources coding to anyone but Germany, UK, Australia - hardley countries with those salaries.

We need to unthink what has been thought. Relying on businesses or government for our well being is short sighted. Asking for more than we deserve is also short sighted. Expecting what is to continue, short sighted.

More money to Science, less to social programs.

@ Strength - you must live in a right to work state, I don't. My State was billions in the Red and the Public Sector workers are cleaning up. It has become class warfare in our State. It has gotten so the only way we can stop the Teachers Unions is to not vote for all the tax levies they keep putting on our local ballot. The Teacher in my community wage and benefits put them in the upper class, and insist if they don't get a pay increase every year, "the kids will suffer." They are holding our kids education hostage. Guess the quality of their teaching is based on how much money they get. Even though most are getting pay and benies that put them over $100 thousand a year. The average income in our town is much, much lower, (around $50000, and we recently had a local unemployement rate of over 17%.) This greed and holding the kids hostage has deeply divided the community, there is much hostility over this. And no, this is not a high income state like New York, this is the Midwest, in a rural county, where the town in question has a population of aprox. 23,000. Oddly enough, increasing numbers of parents are open enrolling in county schools as they are dissatisfied with the education their children are receiving. There have now been public requests from the Superintendent to bring the kids back. Know what, not happening. The system is losing over a million a year in state tuition due to their greed and lack of performance, and they don't "get it."

PJ-697731

Get ready folks we are next.

Exactly. What is that magic number where the debt is some percentage higher than the GDP that triggers Hyper-inflation? Is it 130% (like Greece) or 150%; I don't know, but we are over 100% right now with no end in site. Eventually, the FED will hold a debt auction and no one will come; then what? The only thing left to governments at that point is to print money with both hands. Then we will get to see what the Wiemar Republic of the 1930's looked like.

You do know that we have raised several generations of people that believe corn grows in a "Green Giant Can"; right? How many people do you know that can fix their own cars or house, grow their own food, hunt for and butcher their own meat? We have created a society that is dependent on he government's stipend. What will happen if they don't get it, it isn't enough, or the food stores close? Do you think these people will just sit on the corner and cry or will they turn into an Athens style mob complete with Torches, Pitchforks, and a .45 Colt for everyone ? That won't be pretty.

When people can't feed their kids, and it takes a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread, normally sane and rational people will start doing some really friggin' crazy things. It has been my experience that civilization is a veneer that we CHOOSE to wear. If you place people into the right (or wrong) situations and apply enough pressure, most of us will both quickly and cheerfully strip it off faster than the dancer at a nudie bar. Necessity, Hunger, and Survival are the most ruthless of our natural instincts and it won't take much for us to revert to the animals from whens we came. We will do whatever it takes to survive.

I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien provinces of Vietnam and have looked the 2nd horseman in the eyes before. I can promise you that you don't want to even consider going there. It has been almost 45 years since I saw that "movie" and I am in no hurry to see another screening of anything like it.

When the bottom falls out like in Greece and your money is worthless, people will forget what civilized means in one hell of a hurry. Maybe that is what the Mayans meant by the winter solstice of 2012; who knows? If I were a Mayan of 2000 years ago and someone told me that the things we are seeing day would be happening, I'd sure as hell equate it to the "end of the world."

People open your eyes. Three years ago bread was 60 cents a loaf it is now $1.00 a loaf. Milk was $1.99 It is almost $3.00 now. And the worst hasn't even started. Don't blame the food producers the tractors that plow our land don't run on promises. Three years ago gas was under $2 now it is almost $4. The government has maxxed out its credit cards people. Time to cut them up and learn to balance our wants with our ability to pay for them. It is time to be fiscal adults.

First--where did u live 3 years ago? Here is the wonderful state of Texas, where the republicans make everything wonderful, bread was not $.60 a loaf 3 years ago-it was over a $1. And gas was $2.00 a gallon three years ago, and three years and one month ago it was over $4.00 a gallon-here in Texas and everywhere else. Milk was $1.99, but it ain't $3.00 a gallon here. It would be lower if the republicans would allow milk price supports to be repealed. It would be much less than 1.990 a gallon.

Not allowed to cherry pick facts, if you want to state facts then use ereal facts.

We'll be at 100% of Debt : GDP by 2027, which will be the tipping point. After that we'll all be scrappers for China, dismantling our infrastructure for pennies on the $$$, just to pay for basic services. We'll probably be ripe for military invasion by then.

Come on! There is not a single fact in this story:

How long ago did he retire? 50, 55?

How much was he getting in pension?

How much was his pension cut?

Did he spend it all on other things? (He said "I have debts" Why?

This is a typical sob story from a country where no one wants to work.

lonereb,

It is time to be fiscal adults.

Indeed.

Nobody here seem's to know Why this is happening in a lot of countries, and soon the U.S. It's the "Free Global Trade" B.S. that has driven countries into Bankruptcy. Sending all the manufacturing Job's OUT of the country mean's no job's for the people and no Taxes being collected for the government. It's so damned simple everyone should see the problem. The trade Agreement's with China and the rest of our so called "Trading" partners have taken advantage of us with our governments Blessing. We are next to be looking for food in garbage. We have a President so weak kneed he can hardly stand up. It's time to get tough with our "Trading" Partner's.

Three years ago gas was under $2 now it is almost $4.

And 3.75 years ago it was $4.25. Short memory, or selective memory lonereb?

And 3.75 years ago it was $4.25. Short memory, or selective memory lonereb?

And all you libs/Dems slammed Bush and the Repubs over it every single day. Well, now, it's Obimbo's turn. As for the weak-minded individual that claimed that Bush/Repubs started the trainwreck and the Dems saved it....well, short-memory/selective-memory? Dems controlled both Houses of Congress starting in 2006. They didn't seem too interested in "saving" the economy then!!!! In fact, IMHO, they share the majority of the blame for the 08 crash (Repubs/Bush also deserve some of the blame)!

With a 20% unemployment rate? Really?

I admire your fighting spirit but sadly the price of socialism is that people lose that spirit. They grow soft and weak. There are not a lot of jobs left there and sadly older people are not the first choice when people are hiring. The time to do something is now. "I'll just get a job" may not be an option.

Sad story and I feel bad for the man but Americans need to take the message "get ready" from this story not just count on getting a job at 77 in an impossible economy. Time is running out.

Christian, yes really. If you look at the national percentage of participation in the work force (adults of working age, able to work, who are working), you'll see it's ALREADY at around 20% in the USA. And yet, there are jobs available to those willing to take them. Every week, we have folks who turn down employment offers at my company because they feel they should be making more, or because they can bring in more money from entitlement programs, sitting on their butts at home.

Yes, the jobs are there, if you're willing to admit that supporting your fiscal obligations is more important than your pride. Unfortunately, a growing number of people seem incapable of doing so.

Yashmak, I've got a little news for you that is not at all uncommon right now in the US. I worked in the nursing field, I'm 61 yrs. of age, I lost my job last Sept., I have a housenote, I'm on unemployment and just this past Monday filed for an extension, last Dec. I began to use my retirement money and I'll tell you why...I personally can't pay my monthly expenses on unemployment. When I lost my job, there went my medical also. I have applied for jobs in my field in 2 states now. I have applied at Wal Mart, Wal Mart Food Centers, Walgreens, JCPenney, Macys, Kohl's and at every nursing home in this area. I've applied more than once at some of the hospitals here and you know what they were offering---2 8hr. shifts maximum per week and no I didn't get an interview but I applied anyway. WHAT JOBS, I'm considered "old" in my field and am willing to work anywhere but I need more than 16 hours a week in order to survive---do you hear me YASMAK? 16 hours per week you don't get benefits, you don't get medical nor do you have any money to partiscipate in the 401k's.

If it does happen here, you can bet the "hopeless" person who will "not scrounge for food any longer" dies with a valid $1200 a year i-phone contract.

Yashmak you are truly delusional....

Brian C,

The problem is there are no jobs to be had in Greece, by anyone. Greece is a small country compared to the US, with a much smaller economy. They do not have a great deal of manufactureing or natural resources and a great deal of there economy is based on tourism.

I agree that sometimes you have to try to get past hard times, but you can't really equate the problems here with those in Greece.

If it does happen here, you can bet the "hopeless" person who will "not scrounge for food any longer" dies with a valid $1200 a year i-phone contract.

I'll take that bet. Got any proof? Anything? Anything at all?

Steve, it is here already.

Sure the people on welfare here have cell phones but not the i phone just the dumb phone. Yes the state government supports the program because they would rather have the poor have some phone service instead of none. A Texan

Severed Head in a Jar

If it does happen here, you can bet the "hopeless" person who will "not scrounge for food any longer" dies with a valid $1200 a year i-phone contract.

I'll take that bet. Got any proof? Anything? Anything at all?

It's called observational science SHead. With a 'Chapter 8' housing complex down the street, it's easy to see that they're getting free lunches, reduced/free rent, reduced utilities AND the teens lining up for free busing are all doing the internet whilst waiting.....pathetic, now what?

The overall unemployment rate (U-6) here is about 20%. However, the government has not yet been converted to socialism with high unemplyment. At that point all hope is gone and people start blowing their brains out in record numbers.

Allison,

I sympathize with your plight, and mean no disrespect, but I disagree. As an employer, I have had to make some tough choices over the last 3 years including letting people go or cutting hours. I have taken a 30% cut to try to keep as many employees working as possible. As I read your post, you seem to have the opportunity to work at least 16 hours a week, but won't take it even though perhaps it might lead to more opportunities. Even my 85 year old mother has taken an opportunity at the school she worked at for 35 years or 8 hours a week, and she's glad to have it to supplement her retirement.

My wife and I are in our 50's and we each work well over 70-80 hours a week keeping our businesses afloat. I'm not whining, I'm working, AND VOTING.

Allison,

I'm sorry for your situation, but in all honesty, your single anecdote, or even a dozen or hundred similar, is not representative of the millions out there who are in an equal number of different situations than you are. Don't get angry with me, I'm not preventing you from having a job. I'm simply pointing out that they are available. The very fact that there were openings that you were able to apply for confirms that. In fact, the sum total of your reply plays directly to what I was saying. There are jobs you could take, but don't provide the pay or benefits you feel you need.

If you cannot support yourself on unemployment, then perhaps taking a job that initially only offers two shifts but which might (with good job performance) offer more later is something worth considering. I know I'd consider it if I was unemployed. I could offer the anecdote that just this week I was offered an engineering job (unsolicited even) at a competitor of my company, for a higher salary than I currently make. It even has the merit of being true. But just like your example, I understand my situation is not representative of the population as a whole.

jpeyton, please enlighten me as to the nature of my delusion. Is it my claim that there are jobs available? Then the automakers must share that delusion, as there's an article today right here on MSNBC about how they're having trouble filling the job openings they have. Several small businesses within a couple blocks of my house must be delusional too, as they are sporting "help wanted" signs, and have been for weeks. Maybe you're referring to my citing the unemployment rate as much higher than the 8.something % the media touts, well, a quick websearch on your part will educate you that it only refers to a PART of the total out-of-work percentage in this country. It doesn't include those whose benefits have ended but have still not found work, nor those who have stopped looking all together. Maybe you should do a little research before accusing folks of mental illness.

Yashmak do you pull your head out of the sand to breath, or just use a straw?

John 2032532

Do you offer anything of substance, or merely offer snide comments because you are unable to do so?

Yashmak, who said I was angry with you?? I know I didn't but I think it may be of benefit to you if you read your own post again. What I was replying to is that what is happening in Greece is indeed beginning to happen in this country. It's not about being "lazy" as some would think, I just spoke with someone in nursing school who has 2500+ students ahead of her. I mean did you read the article? The man was a pharmacist for godsake at age 77. He had lost all hope & didn't want to burdon his family, who must be struggling also. Try reading BBCNEWS.com. His situation is common there and guess what it's common in this country. You haven't any idea what has been happening in Greece do you, I don't mean to belittle whatever ideas you have but you need exposure to many sources of news, not just one or 2.

All I can say is that you must not keep abreast of business news do you? There are many sources, maybe you don't get it because you're possibly still young and living with mom and dad, is that it. If you are then you can live on 2 shifts a week. Did you notice how many people agreed with me? Now try and wonder why that is... Sweetie, where do you think the real unemployment numbers stand in this country? I need you to answer that if you would. This is going to ripple around the world, so you really need to broaden yours.

@Yashmuk, read some of the other posts below your original posts and others it just may clarify somethings for you. Yashmuk, I don't think that John was really being snide, did it occur to you that he may be in or know of a relative who is in the same situation...call frustration. Young man, I have spent most of my life working 2 full time jobs now ask me why I wasn't working 2 full time jobs at age 61 when I lost my hospital job.

Allison, people like Yashmuk just cant get it. They never will, and unfortunately, there are thousands and thousands out there like yashmuk. Either too young and sheltered, or too wealthy to get it. They glibly blame the victim, and in many instances - they are the ones doing the firings, to boost that profit margin.

People like Yash, Allison - ARE the problem.

I am so sorry for your troubles. I understand. You dont deserve this. Nobody does. Lets face it people - our government has let us down. I refer you all to George Carlin The American Dream on Youtube.

He said it all - and we just keep on takin' it. All over the world, takin it, and takin it. Same as it ever was.

Christian, dare I ask how old you are? I just had to ask since you said "fact that they clearly let themselves get into such a situation", really??? Are you serious you can't be! I personally have always lived within my means, I don't even like fast food so I never ate in those type places. I didn't buy coffee out why should I, mine is just as good if not better, I have a real percolator and an old expresso pot. Do you really want to believe that most of us "ALLOWED" ourselves to get in this situation? You have to be "young" in order to make a dumb statement like that what else could it be?

Son unless you own the Popsicle stand you go when you're told to. Your last sentence says it all, our turn is coming.

Christian is right. A democratic republic is responsible for its own woes. The Greeks elected people who gave them what they wanted and so do we. While no one individual can be held responsible for our reckless govt spending, as a society of voters we can be.

We need term limits and alternatives to the same old party politics. We need social liberalism and fiscal conservatism. We need less regulation and more accountability (if that's possible). And we need to realize we are not entitled to the lifestyles of the rich and famous just because we're Americans. There's nothing wrong with a used car and a 1200sf house.

Allison, you clearly missed the point. Your focus on personal reliance, albeit laudable, is quickly becoming outdated. How also would you explain the nearly 4 in 10 Americans (and growing) who rely on government assistance in some form?

It's easy to explain. The middle class has been squeezed so badly by the 1%ers that they can no longer even manage the basics. It's from a recession/depression that we are not able to climb out of, and it's form a congress that won't take the steps necessary--cut spending AND raise taxes on those whose incomes have grown exorbitantly over the past 30 years while the middle class incomes have gone down.

Christian-3196489
They should be mad at the fact that they clearly let themselves get into such a situation. Retirement that early with that much pay and not enough taxes to support it? UGH. I sure hope we aren't next :-(

Hope in one hand. Poop in the other. Let us know which hand fills up first.

Not enough taxes, I agree. You can't fix the budget problems only with frugality and cuts on the backs of the working poor who by the way pay many other taxes if not income taxes. Tax increases on the rich instead of huge cuts to their taxes is essential as well

Obama signs up the Simpson Bowles Commission to find debt and deficit solutions, then threw the Commission report in the trash can.

Is this leadership we need?

Allison, again, you shouldn't assume that your situation is the same as everyone else who is unemployed. You may well be every bit as responsible and frugal as you say. If so, you have my admiration, and sympathy for your plight. That said, it's awfully presumptuous of you to assume that all (or even most) cases are the same as yours. Moreover, you seem fixated on the victim mentality that there's nothing you can do because "unless you own the Popsicle stand you go when you're told to". . .but there are other "Popsicle stands" out there.

Christian's comments were directed at the much earlier retirement age, and much higher benefits provided by the Greek government, at a cost unsustainable in the long run for their economy. It is these governmental promises of largesse, these entitlement programs gone bloated and horribly wrong, which have landed the people in this predicament. As such, Christian was making no comment on your personal situation (unless you happen to be a Greek yourself).

And don't delude yourself for a moment into thinking that everyone else is as responsible as you claim to be. There are MANY in our society who through ignorance or irresponsibility do NOT adequately plan for their retirement, who expect society (be it SocSec or the Greek equivalent, or whatever) to wholly pick up the tab for them.

For those of you unsympathetic to Allison's plight--I'm here to tell you she IS NOT ALONE. I can testify to that. I can tell you there is definitely AGE discrimination out there in the job market.

I have a bachelor's degree and lots of experience, but at our age--good luck finding a job. And some of us don't even have unemployment upon which to fall back. And our husband's skipped to UK refusing to pay our divorce settlement.

Allison, I salute you! Keep the faith...even though I know how difficult this can be. Sometimes I find it difficult to breathe, let alone get out of bed each day. But each day, I try again.

My dear friend Yashmuk, you have decided that I think everyone's situation is the same well, I don't. I don't presume to know how long you have been in the workforce but let me tell you my friend, what has happened to me has happened to many others as I stated earlier. Do you have any idea what the true unemployment figures are, I asked this earlier of you possibly you missed it. Young man, you're mistaken since you have decided that I am "fixated on the victim mentality", you are quite funny if that's what you want to believe.

Earlier I suggested that you broaden your reading materials, I still suggest that you do. As far as your last sentence to me goes, don't give me back my same sentence. What do you think was happening when I told you about the places that I've applied to? This is what has been happening in Greece and it still is missing you but that's alright. Just continue reading is all I can suggest, try reading articles that are not written by the US press, that just maybe maybe help out. Read the post #4.9 by Erin

In closing, I was tired of working 72 hours a week, I was too old to continue doing that.

Yashmuk, show me specifically which post # of mine that states "everyone else is as responsible" as me. Did you know that most people even in this country don't/haven't been able to save. I go a lot further back than you do. In the early '80's you could meet some of the most highly educated retired teachers and professors LIVING on the streets of San Francisco, LA, Chicago, NY, you know why, they weren't there because of the novelty of it, they were born too soon and didn't have 401k's, you're the one who is presumptuous and delusional. Clear the prescripted fog that surrounds you.

That's it, I've wasted enough of my time and why aren't you at work as an engineer, shouldn't you be working?

Not the society, just the men involved. Greece has more than its share of nutcases too and I am sure we will see more and more of them. Go back and read the riot stories and think how much worse it is going to get. People are people the world over.

You are right, people are people, but we have the distinction of being one of the most violent societies in the industrialized world, where more murders by guns are committed than anywhere else. We are awash with guns and these latest massacres all over the country should be a perfect example of the kind of mentality we have about guns and killings of innocent people.

There no way to get around that, we see violence, we practice violence, and there are thousands who believe that violence is the solution. Do not compare the riots of Greece, or any other country, with the daily carnage we see in our streets, mostly with guns.

Please link us up where the nra has issued a statement saying he should have shot a dozen people before committing suicide. I call b.s. Not a big fan of their tactics but even they aren't that fkd up.

Rasputin; The borders are still open. clearly in both directions, please feel free to availe yourself of one of the more peaceful societies if you are so afraid in ours!

Rasputin, the problem with your attitude about guns is easy for me to explain.

I am a farmer. At home are myself, my husband and our 1 year old baby. At the end of our property live a man and his sons who are reputed to be drug dealers. (mainly because they have been arrested multiple times on charges related to drugs and violence combined with the fact that there is a steady stream of cars that stay less than 10 minutes) Last week I had a verbal confrontation with them because the teenage sons keep damaging our property in retaliation for our having pointed out their "occupation" to the police. Our livelihood relies upon our farm so it must be protected from vandalism. We are isolated. The police cannot hang around my place - they have an entire county to patrol. In addition they cannot arrest people on my say so. If my husband and I turn a blind eye to buy peace we will soon be without a home or farm because we would lose everything. Like it or not that means I have to keep running the boys and their wasted druggie friends off of our property. My husband cannot always be home. That means I am often alone with a toddler. On numerous occasions I have sat up all night with a loaded gun on my lap waiting for them to either settle down or live up to their implied threats.

Even if you disarmed the entire country I am still one woman with a small daughter against what amounts to a pack of rabid animals disguised as human beings. Sometimes peace has a price. In my case the price of peace is to be a capable and responsible gun owner. Do you really want to live in a world where criminals know no fear?

PJ, Rasputin's comments are about your neighbors, DEFINATELY NOT you! Good god woman, if ANYONE has a reason to have guns and, much as I hate them and think that they should NOT be available to the public, even semi-automatic, hell, full on automatic ones at that, it's you! You sound like a level headed person with a great deal more patience than I have which is necesary to be a good parent. I am hoping that you represent a silent majority in our country but as time goes on I fear that such is not the case. The U.S. mentality is historically most often black and white while the world, humanity, is anything but. Criminals like your neighbors learned ages ago how to manipulate that thinking and the systems that they produce, to victimize law abiding and/or civilized people. The NRA refuses to even entertain forms of gun control which would lessen accidental deaths because there would be a requirement that gun owners be required to take and pass a gun training course. They seem to even be the requirement of a gun safety course! Also forbid should there be a national data base accessable to anyone selling a weapon to help them avoid selling a gun to a crazy person. Will these keep people like your neighbors from getting guns? Hell no, but maybe, if we stop the Us/Them Black/White mentality, more of your neighbors, especially the ones surrounding them, would have guns AND BE PROFICIENT IN THEIR USE. Criminals, especially drug dealers, require that no one know about their activities OR do nothing about them. Your police, I'll be kind here as well as be stating the case in many places, have let you know that they do not have the resources to deal with this "family", which by the way sounds like a few of my cousins who steal from even family members, deal drugs and collect guns and armour as part of some free Amerika militia and get away with it because no one wants to offend my uncles, as they need dealt with, by putting them under constant observation, evidence gathering including pulling over their customers as they leave on suspision of drug trafficking. (If they aren't there to buy drugs or other illegal activity it won't take long to find out).

You might consider organizing your neighbors/community into a watch program at least to video tape their activities and take down liscense plate numbers along with cars as well as their occupants' descriptions so these beasts are put on notice that you do not stand alone and that the community has them under the microscope as a blight to the community. Society only survives if we band together to take care of one another otherwise no amount of weapons ALONE will save you and your daughter should these animals, for that is all people who ONLY think of their own personal interests and desires are, decide that you are too much of an obstacle to their business/lifestyle. Personal responsibility only goes so far then the individual needs a support system, a community, a society to protect the individual.

Greece's government, and many others ours included, stopped protecting the individual against criminal activity destroying quality of life LONG ago and are now on the criminal's side. This gentleman believed that his loyalty to Greece meant something and that he had paid in to the system to support his homeland and in return his country would be respectful and honor their commitments as he did his but found out that his government represents the banking cartel and he, at his age, had no recourse in the system which killed what little hope that he had left. He wasn't the type to organize a resistance movement or other such method of protest and, since there wasn't any way for him to fix things for himself, the best way he could think of to protest these crimes against the agerage citizenry and maybe make enough impact to create change for his children and grandchildren through bringing attention to the abusive unfairness being done to the non-rich was to bring the consequences to the government's actions and lay it on the steps by killing himself in front of the home of the abuse. The other option is armed rebellion.

Try if we don't become more fiscally responsible. Anyone who buys into the nanny state is setting up either our children or grandchildren for this kind of despair. I would rather not have everything than condemn my children and grandchildren to pay for it.

Major Mike,

This is the danger that occurs when people seperate themselves from their government, as if the government could exist seperate of the people

As opposed to here in the USA where the government has separated itself from the people.

Right, it is a corrupt government that takes funds the people pay into, for their future retirement, and spend it on their own interests.

Major Mike, where in this article did it say that this gentleman was greedy? He was a working man alright? You have no understanding of the monetary situation that is taking place not just in Greece but is taking place worldwide and since you have established that you don't understand let me be more clear to you Mike, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE ALSO. Let me kindly suggest that you go to BBCNEWS.com and click on Europe and start reading. Our journalists in this country don't really address the issue of the monetary problems in Europe nor do they address the same issue in this country.

First of all SS is not any type of entitlement preogram. Those of us who will get something from it have paid in along with our employer for 40+ years. That should be guaranteed. If a private employer provides any type of pension they should be forced to fully fund it and they do not. Pensions were a benefit that a company promised you if you agreed to stay and work for them......A PROMISE the Feds have let them off the hook for. So...when it comes to saving for your own retirement SS and a pension are just that ME saving for a retirement payment AND I should be able to rely on that. Simple

Right, it is a corrupt government that takes funds the people pay into, for their future retirement, and spend it on their own interests.

Or, just as sinister, it is a corrupt government that uses promises of unsustainable pension/retirement/health benefits to pander for votes. . .knowing that they will be out of office long before those benefits lead to the collapse of the economy. That's what has happened in Greece, and is the direction our own nation is heading unless we change course.

And you want to stick the bill for your freebies to your kids and grandkids. Grow up be an adult.

Jr1965, keep hiding behind that fake name-- you're obviously too ashamed to associate your name to the complete BS you spew. Pathetic, man, really really pathetic.

bwilcutt, why does it make you so enraged about his handle, especially since that's not the point of the article? What are your thoughts on the article by the way?

No, but going back to taxes that BEGIN to resemble our most prosperous years, like under Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush (1) - Capital Gains the same as any other income for most of these, the top rates higher under ALL of them. We have been the LEAST prosperous since the top rates have been the lowest at the top of the income scale. LOOK IT UP. Except, that is, for the folks at the top (you know, the ones that didn't create hardly any jobs, either during Bush (2) or now, even though their taxes have NEVER (since the the century before last) been lower. Freebies may be a problem. The revenue disparity is a MUCH bigger one, but most people are too ignorant to realize it (like a mole-hill and a mountain). And when I hear people say that that top 1% already pay over 40% (or whatever number you want to put there) - think about this: What does it tell you, that the top 1% is paying such a huge overall portion of total taxes, while they're paying, for the most, only 15 cents on the dollar of their revenue (capital gains) - it points to the unimaginable enormity of the income difference between that 1% and everyone else. I'm not into "punishing" success. Just like Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush (1) weren't either - Just looking for REASONABLE taxation. And everyone keeps talking about how Obama want to "raise" our taxes, without mentioning that if you're not bringing in a quarter Mil or more, he wants to LOWER them. And the increase to those above that limit DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO APPROACH the levels of taxation prevelent since then of WWII during our most propserous years. FACTS ALL.

Well the only person in our government who wants to eliminate the loopholes in our tax code making the effective tax rate on people ike Romney 25% every democrat excoriates. Try reading Paul Ryan instead of believing the media spew on his plan. I no longer care who got us into this dems or repubs. I only care who can get us out of it.

to Lonereb:

You're not correct about your facts: that's a 25% INCOME TAX rate with no loop holes. The very wealthy get a miniscule amount of their income from things like WAGES or other types of regular income - they get the vast majority of the income from CAPITAL GAINS, taxed at 15%. And the wealthier you are, the more of your income comes from capital gains. That 1% gets ALMOST ALL of their income from capital gains. A change in INCOME TAX rates doesn't affect them AT ALL. Isn't it nice to know that the grown children of the richest Americans can play 365 days a year, and keep 85 cents of every dollar (out of the millions they make every year), while most of us get to keep less than 67 cents of every dollar that we make by working most of the daylight and many of the nighttime hours? Gotta love it.

This is the most asinine pile of crap I have ever read. It is very scary that we live in a country of seemingly intelligent people who are so blinded by hate and mistrust that they truly believe in totally fabricated babble. If you people would for once in your lives stop picking sides and blaming the opposing political party for the woes of the world and actually support our elected officials and implore them to work with the other side for a solution, maybe we as a COUNRTY can pull ourselves up from where we have fallen as a society and return to the once proud America of yesteryear.

I ask everyone; Stop pointing fingers and help find a solution because all the name calling and blaming each other does nothing but bring this Country. Yes, I am saying lets sing Kumbaya if that’s what will work.

And what is the dignified way? Slow starvation?

In this country is suicide looked at as a "cowardly way out". He didn't want to burden his children and you call that "cowardly"?? You didn't read the article itself did you? Do you really want to believe that the Greeks didn't "work", what planet are you from?

You sir are a dumbass. Just wait until the repubs budget for the rich by the rich and by the rich catches up to you. I hope you will fare better than this poor man

My retirement plan when things crash is to take advantage of the Patriot Act. I'm sure I can figure out how to get myself detained without trial for my big mouth. Then the people who got us into this can house,clothe, feed and provide healthcare for me while protecting my butt from the civil unrest that will follow. From experience If you walk outside to get your paper and find yourself looking down the barrel of a machine gun manned by your Nat Guard. Your city is now under martial law you have no civil rights. When that scared young sodier says get your butt back in the house do not argue just get your butt back in the house.

Yup. I pray that that trend comes to America. Time to clean out the riff raff.

And what will you do when you retire and the funds you have been paying into social security all your life aren't there?

And what will you do when you retire and the funds you have been paying into social security all your life aren't there?

I'm sure that bwilcutt will be there to help him along.

Severed and then who will help bwilcutt?

Allison, :) volunteers anyone?

Don't you love those of us who have never attempted suicide, glibly label it "easy." Try it sometime. You'll discover there is NOTHING "easy" about it. Dare you!

Don't his children inherit the debts he said he already had?

The money in the Republican budget doesn't exist either because they give it back to their rich friends. Im all for cutting back but lets sock it to the rich as well as we did 5o years ago or more. Only by reducing spending and taxing these rich ahol** can we close the gap.

Be careful what you wish for. I'm not one of the 1%, I'm probably sitting about 40% below that. I'm not sure taxing the rich is the answer. The top 1% already contributes nearly 30% of individual income tax revenue. Taxing them more will only result in higher wages for the extremely wealthy to offset what they lose in the increase in the higher tax bracket, or worse yet; more extravagant bonuses to compensate for the loss. This money is taken from the other 90% working to make ends meet and ends up hurting more Americans than it benefits. Good luck getting congress (mostly extremely wealthy Americans-both Dem. & Repub.) to legislate wages for wealthy. They'll scream laissez-faire and cry the death of the American dream. It is up to workers and publicly owned corporations to force the issue of fair compensation of all workers from the bottom to the top. Then there will be more justice in wages and in taxes.

Now Jenny has it right. This poor guy gave money and paid taxes so that he would have a comfortable retirement in old age. The real crime here is that Greece has not been in a war since Korea. What did they spend all that money on that they saved from not being at war. In the US we created a volunteer Army so rich and upper middle class Americans can have the lower middle class and poor fight their wars for them. That way no one is distracted from making money and screwing every other American and the world at the same time.

Sounds like the Ryan Plan to me ...

grandall,

Maybe you should read Obamacare. That will take care of the seniors.

The Obama plan will crash the government. His own party knows that. The vote against it was 414-0 there aren't 414 republicans in congress.

Yea Obama will crash the government despite cuts in spending because what...................oh right he'll tax the rich sobs like they should be.

Rick, I just know you'll have your greedy claw out when you file for social security won't you? You and everyone else who has worked has had ss with held, try looking at your withholdings sometime.

So, Medicare and social security are wealth distribution programs for the poor????? Really?? I mean REALLLLY???? Sheer lunacy on your part Rick. Get some education then come back.

Thats what the repubs are hoping for. Seniors and the middle class eating dog food while they give huge tax breaks to the club that eats at 5 star eateries and go golfing every day.

Folks, I think Rick was being sarcastic. Note that he was pointing out that he pointed out that without these programs, except for the rich, ALL of our parents would be subjected to sub-human conditions. What I don't get is working people being opposed to programs for the aged and unable to work as if they could NEVER have anything happen to them to take them out of the work force nor will EVER grow OLD!

One and All: Those words are filled with bitterness and hate, and cannot produce any positive result, not now, not ever. In fact they take the whole world of possibilities down to the depths of despair, they attempt to create from the refuse and despair the preposterous claim that Congress is doing anything at all. Congress has been pursuing only the goal of destruction, knowing it is well paid, and well taken care of by outside interests.

That pursuit of deliberative destruction after this many years can only be the whole of the economy, the whole American enterprise and against the life breath of every American.

Since this goal of deliberative destruction is well known, and it is of the lowest form, and it is from the highest lead ship that the insane political can profess, what may it bring forth? If brings forth anything, describe it, how many heads – a hundred for Medusa, who will this monster eat, and who will feed it or be fed to it?

From such great bitterness is born no fruit, no seen planted in bitter soil will sprout, no leader so bitter and bedraggled can have followers, and every man themselves will be as left to as if the last man on earth.

It is as if you are already dead, buried and forgotten. So why, tell me why, am I standing over your grave, is it to awake the dead, or convince you that you might be redeemed from your self-described hell? Not it not for your sake, at all, I accept your death, but I need to warn others, here is the bottomless pit, that no matter how many are thrown into its depths it only grows deeper, wider and if is fed it will take everyone down.

No words I know no words I can imagine and no words I can describe can be hammered to language to condemn those who say and think with the bitterness shown here. Those words alone condemn the speaker, condemn the copier, and condemn the forger more so than any writer or poet to ever lived, darkness obscene.

Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy, Economy – One word antidote.

That is horse hockey Oneman. There is plenty of wealth and America is not broke. We were most prosperous when the wealthy paid the highest tax rates. Rebuilding infrastructure, investing in education, and safety nets is important and the wealthiest should bear the greatest burden, not be rewarded on the backs of their slaves. Shameful!

Box = "Hope and change", otherwise known as "socialism".

Gee they got to quit which means they get to keep the government benefits we will have to pay for the priveledge of being shafted by appointed idiots.

You will probably have to.

Those OWS scumbags are writing checks their body can't cash.

No Drone they are writing checks their kids won't be able to cash. Our government and everybody that supports this socialism is sticking it to our children. Go to a elementary school when it lets out those will be the people paying for this. Because you can't just keep printing money or pretty soon money is worth nothing. I remember just 30 years ago when Mexico had to devalue its currency. One day the peso was 12 to 1 the next day it was 300 to 1 and eventually went to 1200 to 1. Businesses on our side had to stop taking the peso because it woud change between accepting it and converting it. Wages in Mexico didn't keep up and even the rich weren't able to adjust for awhile.

The same thing happened after the crash of 1929, and socialism had nothing to do with it.

Shut your filthy mouth Bwilcutt.

The problems we face aren't caused by socialism but vulture capitalism. Plenty of socialist countries have successful budgets by the way. And your comment about being willing to help Obama do the same thing to himself just exposes your racist teabagger wingnut mentality. Your are either rich, or think you'll have the hope of becoming so, a laughable prospect in America today. Go spew your hate into your toilet bowl.

Welcome to Socialism.. that's what it creates... It's the 'give me mentality". Johnny: can you list 5 countries that are socialist that have successful budgets? Include your source please.

You sick, selfish f.

In response to Juan Perez I would like to start by naming that country that is whipping our butt in the area of capitalism - The People's Republic of China. They apparently are doing rather well. Incredibly rather well actually.