E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSNBC's Ian Williams reports from Thailand-Myanmar border where the Karen rebels, a Christian minority, are fighting one of the world's longest running civil wars.
KAREN STATE, Myanmar – At first light, a haze from dry-season fires hung low over the Moie River, which marks the border between Thailand and Myanmar (also known as Burma).
It was a good time of day for a discrete crossing from one of the many small clearings in the thick tropical undergrowth lining the Moei's muddy waters.
It took just moments for our long-tailed boat to reach the Myanmar side, where after making our way over a rickety make-shift bridge and climbing the steep river bank we were welcomed to the seventh brigade headquarters of the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA), the military wing of the Karen National Union (KNU), which has been fighting the Myanmar government for decades.
We were greeted by Saw Hla Hgwe of the KNU, a short bespectacled man, wearing a red Ferrari baseball cap.
"We have two big problems in this country, ethnic rights and democratic rights," he said, "and until both these problems are solved there can be no peace and stability."
The mostly Christian Karen people have been fighting against Myanmar’s central government for 62 years, which makes this one of world's longest-running – and most brutal – civil wars.
It's also one of the world's great forgotten conflicts. Not even Rambo could change that; his last movie was set here (though filmed in Thailand), with Sylvester Stallone taking on what appeared to be the entire Myanmar Army in an effort to rescue a bunch of Christian missionaries kidnapped by soldiers as they were taking aid to Karen villagers.
Ian Williams / NBC News
A rag-tag group of KNLA soldiers listen to a pep-talk from their commander Saw Jorny. Some wore flip-flops and carried a variety of weapons from ageing AK-47s to newer-looking M-16s.
New era?
In January, though, the KNU signed a ceasefire deal with the Myanmar government, and KNU leaders are in Yangon this weekend for further talks. They are also planning to meet pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi, whose election to parliament last weekend is just the latest and most significant development in a fast-moving reform process.
But it’s a reform process that has been greeted with extreme caution by the KNU.
"Right now I think that they are not trustworthy," Saw Hla Hgwe told me. "We have heard this kind of talk many times, but it never comes to reality, so this time we are being careful and cautious."
It doesn't help that the KNU itself is faction-ridden and has been much weakened by successive army onslaughts. It is also just one of a patchwork of ethnic groups that make up 30 percent of Myanmar's population. Most have their own militias, and the U.S. has said that ethnic peace is a precondition for fully lifting sanctions on Myanmar.
"For genuine peace, the government must prove that it is willing to share power," said the KNU's Saw Hla Hgwe.
Soldiers in flip flops
The seventh brigade camp consisted of a series of small wooden buildings, set around a dusty parade ground, where their commander, Saw Jorny, gathered about 50 members of his rag-tag army for a pep-talk, reminding them not to break the ceasefire – but to remain on their guard.
His soldiers carried a variety of weapons – from ageing AK-47s to newer-looking M-16s. Many wore only flip flops on their feet.
One young soldier had a prosthetic foot, and when I asked him what had happened he just shrugged. "Landmine," he said. "Over there, behind the mountain."
Ian Williams / NBC News
Some young Karen refugees in Thailand.
In fact I was surprised not to see more missing limbs, since this is one of the most mine-infested areas on the planet.
The Myanmar army has been accused of gross human rights abuses against the country's ethnic minorities – ranging from rape and forced labor to torture and murder.
Tens of thousands of Karen have been forced from their homes, their villages destroyed. Many have fled across the Moie River to take refuge in sprawling camps that cling to the Thai side of the river.
Aid groups say there are around 160,000 refugees in Thai camps and hundreds of thousands more have been displaced inside the country. The biggest single group is the Karen people.
‘Hope to go back’
Most Karen refugees we met said they wanted to return to Myanmar – someday. Few had heard about the reform process in Yangon, and for many the horrors they'd experience were still raw.
Ian Williams / NBC News
Ma Aye, a Karen refugee, who fled to Thailand with her children two years ago.
"They came to our village, shooting at us and planting landmines," said Ma Aye, who fled to Thailand with her children two years ago. "We just couldn't stay anymore."
Nearby, Wee Thwa was building a new home from wood and dried leaves. "We were afraid. We couldn't stay after the army came to our village," he told me. He too had heard nothing of the reforms sweeping Myanmar, but he added: "I hope to go back when the situation is good."
By all rights, Karen State should be a prosperous place, sitting on a wealth of raw materials and minerals, including rich deposits of gold. But the conflict has impoverished the area, now riddled with malaria and malnutrition.
The success of Myanmar's reforms may well be determined here, and in other ethnic areas, rather than in Yangon or Naypyitaw (the newly created capital city), and by the government's ability – and willingness – to make a lasting peace and overcome decades of conflict and mistrust.
"It's all about trust," Saw Jorny, the seventh brigade commander, told me. "The Karen people want peace – but genuine peace."
Leave a Comment:
Pretty sure they were fighting for Burma, not Myanmar.
It's the exact same place, and country. Semantic arguements solve nothing.
Burma become the Union of Myanmar in 1989, and is recognized as such by the UN.
Both names are valid. Myanmar is formal and used when writing, while Burma is more colloquial.
That pic of that girl is too freaking cute holding that baby.. It sucks that children have to live in war-times.. living through grief.. etc.
Isn't Myanmar Muslim, the place where a woman was sentenced to I think stoning for drinking beer? Or am I thinking of Malasia?
Myanmar (Burma) is primarily Buddhist with some tribes being Christian, Animists, and areas closest to Bangladesh are Muslim.
The conflicts between the government and the various tribes is primarily about a conservative military, which has controlled the government for over 50 years and the tribal desires for self government, essentially leaning to a socialistic economy with government funds providing services for the people.
That was the type of government that existed after the British left Burma to self government when they left in the 50's and which was overthrown by the military coup in the late 50's and early 60's
You'e thinking some place else: NOT Burma. Although there is a small Muslim minority. No-one gets "stoned" in Burma for drinking beer, not even women. That is of course, unless you've had too much. LOL
Sorry, Chac Balam, but there are other rather large differences as well which go back farther than the sixty-two years mentioned in the article. One huge one is the fact that the junta, and the junta's political predecessors, collaborated actively with the Japanese against the British, Indian, and US forces during WW2, while the Karen fought alongside the allies and sacrificed on an extreme level in order to drive out the Japanese. When the Japanese evacuated Burma, the US rewarded the Karen's loyalty and valor by IMMEDIATELY putting the collaborationist government back in charge and turning their back on the Karen, despite happy talk of assurance. And everything from the "Allies" since then has been nothing but words, because they want their hands on petro, timber, and mineral resources, much of which lie under Karen land.
The Karen should never trust ANYBODY after what THEY have had to endure.
Myanmar has a few Muslims. Does that mean the kids should be miserable?
Then it must have been Malasia. Never said kids had to be miserable(?).
Think about it. At any given moment in any given day, there are thousands of people fighting each other in actual wars. Some of these wars have been going on since the dawn of man. As much as we like to mitch and boan about life in the USA, we could still have it so much worse. Just think about it.
I lived and worked in Burma for many years and had the chance to meet people from several minority groups including the Karen, Chin, Kachin Arakanese, Shan and others. Historically, the Karen have been given short shrift by the central Burman majority and the political architects of a divisive Burma: -- the UK. The Brits promised the Karen their own homeland after WWII. But Lord Mountbatten renegged on the agreement in 1948 and in return the Karen marched on Rangoon where their seige almost took the country. Since then, they have been losing in a war of attrition. There are hundreds of miles of devastation ( a no-man's land) between Karen territory and the rest of Burma.
The Karen are basically Christian having had US missionaries work among them for decades. Their senior military officer corps were trained in the UK and Australia and are credited with brilliant tactics against the Japanese and their 60 year war with the central Burmese government. But most of them are dead or feeble.
What has kept them going is their Christian faith, a love of homeland and a "blind eye" from Thai authorities to their East. Given a real peace and cooperation with the central Burmese govt, the Karen could develop their timber, cattle and mineral resources and over time even prosper. But don't hold your breathe.
As many Burmese offiicials have told me in the past, "if anyone doesn't belive in the Burmese way to socialism, then, they are free to leave"...not a very encouraging message for national unity. So, the Karen remain on alert for attack by land and from the air whiwch happens every dry season. They suffer disease, poverty, a general lack of amenities but most of all a deep humiliation and despair at how the world has treated them
Some new and useful information there. Thank you.
ya you say Burma I say Thailand, tomato,tomayto. The word here is resources especially the gold. What man has done to his fellow man for the yellow metal is man's greatest infraction on humanity. Poor people being displaced, killed, tortured by the stronger army, all for resources. In the world's minds eye you it is okay to invade another mans country for resources, it's "acceptable behavior". You see the stronger countries know they will get their 20 pieces of silver for allowing the act. Yes, we are the world all right.
USA invades and then pays premium prices for the resources and also gives foreign aid.
Yank, can you even conceive of a story that is not about the United States?
I'm not sure what you mean? This story, with photo of small girls, was intended to get our attention and sympathy . Our being the USA. Previous posts brought the USA into it including the post that I am under. That post remarks about stronger groups taking advantage of weaker groups. Is it unusual the press publishes these types of stories around a religious holiday along with the annual Shroud of Turin story?
It's a shame that man's inhumanity to man never seems to lessen,it only changes face once in a while. Like most minorities in the world the Karen are bound to get the short end of the stick. I just hope the Thai's government continues to keep a "blind eye" towards their incursions into their land.
I find it interesting that the headline on the page of the article mentions that they are a Christian minority. Is this supposed to rile up the Christian rabble here to launch a possible new "crusade"?
Wouldn't one think they would take up with their God, maybe they aren't praying enough?
it would be funny to hear you talking like that in person,I'd object physically
It breaks your heart to see these precious children subjected to the horror of war. The only offering is prayer and trust in God.
Then DO SOMETHING about it...
Write your local POLITICIAN about making the USA become a signatory of the Ottawa Treaty or the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention...
Prayer and broken hearts accomplish NOTHING...
But that would require the USA the clean-up the mines they dropped and left in; Vietnam, Laos, South Korea, etc, etc...
POTUS Clinton, Bush & Obama have refused to join the hundred plus other Nations that have signed the world wide ban...
A separate Convention on Cluster Munitions was drafted in 2008 and came into effect in 2010. This ban has also been NOT SIGNED by the USA and many others...
Ron Paul has the perfect solution for these kinds of problems: Ignore them, along with everything else that goes on beyond US borders. With its head in the sand, America can truly start to move forward.
The article was about Ron Paul?
Ron Paul gets around. With his ideas on the fringe like that, I couldn't help thinking of him when reading the article.
What a beautiful country. I would love to travel there. Sad to hear there are religious fanatics there causing all this strife.
Religion is evil.. And the Christian element around the world is all for wars against other religions, especially any place that gives their religion the boot. The crusades are alive and well.
HAHA, what? How in the world does the repressive regime in Burma equal Fanatic religious group? Burma has been controlled by some form of military government since 1962 when Burma started on the path to socialism via the "Burmese way to socialism". Not surprisingly the country has been in steady decline ever since. It is also not surprising that the many peoples of diverse ethnic and religious affiliations in Burma have been struggling against this repressive regime ever since, after all freedom is the food of the soul. I don't think you actually have a problem with religion I think you have a problem with people fighting for their freedom. If it hadn't been for these groups fighting against this evil government for so many years the reforms that are now possible would never have come about.
On what basis do you make such an accusation? There are Christians around the world that are being warred upon, who are being killed, jailed, tortured, and discriminated against because of their faith. But you atheists hate religion with such vigor that it tends to warp your perceptions.
Nice tag.You're wrong.I wish wrong enough to be ejected from our country w its' CHRISTIAN roots
I agree with his piggy. It seems the Christians are the ones that are being picked on. I have a few friends who are Christians and I didn't see them do any evil thing or speak any evil thing. I don't see Christians blowing up school buses of kids, or strapping bombs on their children, kill people for insulting their faith. So the thing about Christianity being evil is not true. The Christians who say they are, but willingly and gleefully holds hands with the world is indeed not Christian. But God knows. So don't say things unless you been around with a true Christian or Christians. - Freedom4Everyone
For those of us who live in Asia, this is a OLD story and little has really changed...
While the Media and the POLITICIANS are making a big deal about the supposed NEW FREEDOMS. The free flowing money will never get down to these people. In fact, they will be the ones losing their home-land as the natural resources are harvested and the hydro-electric dams are flooding their lands...
It will be interesting to see what happens when ASEAN goes into effect and the borders are opened. Hopefully the undocumented will be enabled to return to their birth-place and receive documentation...
In Thailand these people can receive FREE education, but even this is restrictive to those who have to work to live. Thailand restricts many occupations to even documented foreigners and undocumented workers are jailed, deported, and bared from returning. The UN supplies some food and supplies, but currently China has been restricting even these shipments, to many of the remote areas...
Many people that live here are wishing for the BEST, but the REALIST are waiting for the ACTIONS, the words have lost their meaning decades ago...
IMO - The Myanmar Leadership is playing the WORLD for fools and taking advantage of what they can get. They have given very little, beyond what is required to open the gates for aid money and lifting of restrictions. The people that have suffered the most have seen NO CHANGES...
But what the heck, I have lived here for years and get to talk to the people that are effected. I'm sure those that rely on the MEDIA for knowledge and seldom travel beyond the tourist areas, know better... Ha! Ha!
Hmm
Here we go again. CHRISTIANS starting another war!!! I wonder how we would react if some American citizens converted to Islam and started attacking the US. Oh, wait!!! That is already happening!!! Now conservative nut cases will tell us that radical Muslim clerics are converting and radicalizing our young people but here is the thing: Isn't that the EXACT same thing Christians did in Myanmar?
This has been the Christian story for 2,000 years. Move missionaries into the area, convert the women and children, and in a generation you have soldiers to start the fight against the Pagans. They act all innocent but this happens in nearly every country they touch. Buddhists do not fight over religion. Period. No one can show me ONE war that was fought over Buddhism. And they are not now. Karen was formed and immediately began demanding special rights for Christians, civil rights, and claimed them in the name of religion.
Is there any war on Earth that was not started by either Christians, Muslims or Jews? IHOP makes pan cakes, these three poisonous religions make war. Any "charity" that they do either financially or politically helps them and this is the only reason they do it. They get to say "but look at all the good things we do."
The great warrior Ashoka was a Buddhist.
I hate to be pendantic, but I do expect more from journalists: it's "discreet" not "discrete" crossing. Please, the US is getting dumber every day as it is!
I would say to the "Karen" christians the same thing I would say to the Muslims in America ... keep your religion to yourself and do not make it a political issue ... live in your society instead of fighting it. Yes, there are injustices, but making it the central theme and justification for 65 years of war is just plain stupid
Myanmar is a highly diverse Asian country just as Malaysia is, but it's not as free and open as Malaysia even though Malaysia is an Islamic state with Myanmar primarily being Buddhist and one of the most traditional old world countries time has almost forgot. Most Burmese want Americans to come for a visit, teach English, and Westernization to happen, because they want opportunity to work and redevelop to be world citizens with modern amenities currently with extreme desperation to be not forgotten and to prosper. I wouldn't say capitalism is the way, but a more proper socialist system like they demand that takes care of and promotes a people free to work as they wish, but also promotes infrastructure development, technology, jobs, healthcare, education, and housing.
There are high tensions and big problems in both of the countries I mentioned, but Malaysia has been promoted by their government to develop, drill oil, and become a high tech state though many areas still have a 3rd world country flavor; a familiar one common throughout Asia in many flavors making for ultimate adventure, eco-tourism, and cultural tourism travel destinations.
In 2010, Myanmar had visa on arrival for tourists, an unprecedented, but short lived plan with the locals believing the government was to start allowing more freedoms to work, play, and enjoy new opportunities to prosper, but it probably isn't a sincere one as the junta simply wants or needs money so they are looking to allow limited direct foreign investments. I got the gist those poor people were being ignorantly duped, but were overly optimistic for change and have made some strides though we are not hearing as much out of Myanmar as we should be if it were really opening up to be a free state. It's been an extremely interesting time to be going over to Asia during our time as it's a time of big change in most all those countries with Myanmar being the least developed so far. To go to Burma is to see and experience what it was like 100 years ago, but it's a dark sinister reason and one many ethically question. Amazing people and culture.