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Pier Paolo Cito / AP
Pope Benedict XVI enters St. Peter's Basilica on Saturday to begin the Vatican's Easter vigil service.
Updated at 5:37 p.m. ET: VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict, leading the world's Catholics into Easter, said on Saturday that technological progress, in the absence of awareness of God and moral values, is a threat to the world.
Benedict presided at a solemn Easter vigil Mass in St Peter's Basilica to usher the 1.2 billion-member church into the most important day of its liturgical calendar.
The basilica, the largest church in Christendom, was in the dark for the start of the service to signify the darkness in Jesus' tomb before what Christians believe was his resurrection from the dead three days after his crucifixion.
The some 10,000 faithful in the basilica lit candles as the pope moved up the central aisle on a wheeled platform he uses to conserve his strength and then the basilica's lights were turned on when he reached the main altar.
Wearing gold and white vestments at the Mass, his last Holy Week service before Easter Sunday, Benedict wove his sermon around the theme of darkness and light.
"The darkness that poses a real threat to mankind, after all, is the fact that he can see and investigate tangible material things, but cannot see where the world is going or whence it comes, where our own life is going, what is good and what is evil," he said.
"The darkness enshrouding God and obscuring values is the real threat to our existence and to the world in general," he said.
Around the world, Christians celebrate the holiest week of the year.
Benedict, repeating one of the central themes of his pontificate, said man was too often in awe of technology instead of being in awe of God.
"If God and moral values, the difference between good and evil, remain in darkness, then all other 'lights', that put such incredible technical feats within our reach, are not only progress but also dangers that put us and the world at risk," he said.
"With regard to material things, our knowledge and our technical accomplishments are legion, but what reaches beyond, the things of God and the question of good, we can no longer identify," he said.
The pope, who returned from a grueling trip to Mexico and Cuba last week, looked fatigued at the long service, during which be baptized eight adults from Italy, the United States, Slovakia, Turkmenistan, Albania, Germany and Cameroon. He turns 85 on April 16.
On Sunday the pope will preside at an Easter day Mass and then deliver his twice-yearly "Urbi et Orbi" (to the city and the world) blessing and message from the central balcony of St Peter's Basilica.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this story.
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Leave a Comment:
Why do I think that the pope would have rather been holding something else that was long and hard?
And young?
Why do I get the feeling that you two, who brought the subject up, are more likely to be pederasts than the pope?
WMG is a butthurt Catholic. A literally butthurt Catholic, rofl.
Why do Kevin and I get collapsed for suggesting the pope is a pedophile but WMG does not get collapsed for suggesting that we are? Hell, we have good reason for thinking this about the pope; WMG has NO reason for thinking this about us.
Leroy Brown: you are bad. The baddest man in the whole damn town.
Beware of Religion without morals. The Pope needs to get his own church in order before spouting off to the rest of us about anything.
you know we dont come to your house and tell you your a looser for not believing..so why do you come to ours and attack us with filth ???
Very few people that believe or that are Catholic come on the vine to to say anything even that its a wonderful day which it is, they have better things to do with their time, they know full well what dirt filled comments will follow.. Other articles about people or things that I would Beg to come on the vine and give my opinion like Sandusky or Hollywood, Scientology many other topics tend to be shielded from conversation..But this topic like I said couldnt turn into conversation so whats up MSN seems all your looking for is trouble.
What an angry looking guy...
He's upset he can't launder money like he used to. Among other things.
I just do not understand the importance of the pope. Or the arrogance of thinking that you are closer to god than everyone else...
Or the arrogance of any human who believes that they are magical eternal beings themselves
Thou Shalt Not Use Technology.
My bum is a lot more afraid of this pedophile protector then any technology. What a piece of work!
Probably angry that technology outed him and his gang of sexual predators.
Garbage. And what about followers of this slime? What does that say about them?
He looks very, very tired. I think he is being told what to read and he just does it. This is supposed to be the holiest day for Catholics. Passover for Jews. Christ is a Jew and we have Christ/ians. Mary is a Jew, yet Catholics have Christ the Jew nailed to a cross - ok Christ died, but you'd be arrested if you nailed a cat, dog or some animal to a cross - yet, I have to see that man nailed to a cross. Doesn't sound too religious to me. As one priest said to me - Bob, Catholic Theater, so when I see the pope and his group, or whatever, they just go round and round in circles - have no idea what the relation is to Christ, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons or the other six billion people who are non Catholics. Catholics claim they are one billion, out of seven billion, puts them at a minority - a very rich minority.
Let's be frank... technology WITH "God" is much more dangerous...
Of course the Pope is distrustful of technology: it proves he's a fraud, along with other religious leaders who are more interested in control and money than any imaginary man in the sky.
"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious ideas of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God. So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake… Religion is all bunk. – Thomas Edison
"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers."
– Robert G. Ingersoll
Stick your head in a hole and have faith ... been there done that ... and my pigeon died!!!!
Beware of the GOP. They want to rule America with the iron fists of Christiandom. Ricky Santorum wants to install Judea-Christian Sharia law and answer to the pope before he makes a move.
James Madison knew the consequences of mixing religion and government. ALL of our founding fathers knew the problems religions cause. Yet the morons of America think religion is the answer to everything.
The pontiff is a nazi. His past has proven so.
If you beLIEve in the lies the church pedals then you get what you ask for. There was NEVER any god, jesus or holy figures. They are man made and set up to control the mindless.
I'm sure the Pope wishes his god could control information technology... expressly on child abuse and the inaction of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
I wonder why the pope ventures into these types of dialogues. He should stick to preaching to his faithful and extolling the virtues of good deeds and dedication to being better people. It simply does nothing to inflame passions over which he has no influence whatsoever. I am an atheist but still respect the beliefs of others except when they superimpose themselves over others. There are many "true believers" out there who go about their daily lives without the need to bother themselves with these needless fears. The human race will no doubt self destruct at some point and the pope will have little influence on that outcome. Too bad the Catholic establishment picked someone like Ratzinger to represent the faith and not a more charismatic third world figure.
Kevin-3173052,
You have a lot of growing up to do.
This comment is a typical trick of someone like you. You associate anger with someone you don't like.
Jesus was at times an angry guy.
Being closer to God than others is not arrogance. It is a state of being. Gandhi was closer to God than Hitler, the Pope is closer to God than Stalin.
And Jesus is closer to God than you. You seem to be filled with a lot of unresolved anger of your own inadequacies.
FYI, Kevin-3173052, it is the Pope's job to spread Christ's message in the world. You might want to try judging people less and getting some morals.
the Gundeck
Let;s be frank, technology with God is not dangerous at all, it's divine. It leads to growth of civilizations and the establishment of institutions which assist in building society.
PS....the pic reminds one of Marley's Ghost.
Holy sh*t, what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant people making blatant anti-Catholic commentary.
As much as you worthless evangelical "cafeteria" Christians hate to admit, but EVERYTHING that you pretty much hold dear in tradition and Scripture was, for at least 15 centuries, ALL developed through Church doctors and councils of the Roman Catholic Church.
Luther started the scandal...and led to the millions of people in thousands of random sects to spread errors across the world.
The commentary about the Pope being "inquisitional" and "clueless" are without merit.
As with anything, man may create "good things" but man so readily takes things to use for selfish, sinister or despicable ends...
And, Gimme....As much as you hate to admit it, the scriptures are fiction. If you really hold that the age of a religious idea makes it legitimate, become Jewish.
The pope, that whore of Rome, should trundle off to that hell he's always talking about.
He makes his living promulgating the bizarre fantasies and fairy tales that have kept so much of mankind from using its God-given intelligence, instead urging his followers to believe the nonsense that keeps the church in business. May he rot in hell.
In the pope's mind, I wonder if he ever fantasized the thought of shoving easter eggs underneath his robe for the kids to go find? As far as I'm concerned the pope sucks and in fact the entire roman catholic church sucks. The RCC is nothing more than a cult and I can prove it since I am a former victim of that abominating pit.
I am amazed at the hate and passionate vitriol against the Pope and his church. This seems to be such
personal hate, yet I believe that the vast majority of those spewing out their hate have never had an unpleasant personal experience with a priest. Most of the contact between catholic elementary school children was with Nuns., yet you would think every last child was in harms way from the church. It just wasn't so.
The mistakes made by the Church was moving pederasts and pedophiles from one community to another instead of going to the legal authorities to punish the transgressors.
I can't reasonably explain why the Church hierarchy did that, except the perhaps they actually believed that a sincere confession of sins earned forgiveness and a second chance. The problem is that this system doesn't work for men who are addicted to sex, especially with kids. If the Church wanted to give these evil Priests a second chance, maybe they should have offered them the alternative of castration, psychiatric help, and an ongoing monastic life in lieu of prison.
He has alot of nerve talking about moral values when he does not apply them to the child abuse cases in his own church.
If Evolution is Just a Theory, Religion is Just an Opinion.
Can I Teach Evolution In Your Church?
Education Cures Religious Terrorism. Let's face it ,now the Evangelical Christianity Taliban, is responsible for more wars and murders than just about any other cause.... except perhaps oil.
I felt that evangelical Christianity had been "HIJACKED" by GOP tea-party. When did it become anti-feminist? When did evangelical Christianity become Anti-Gay? When did it become supportive of Capital Punishment? Pro-war? Pro-Killing.?Religion Hatred?Race Hatred? When did evangelical Christianity become so negative towards other religious groups?
But not to be prejudice,I do believes.
But sadly did it become so rare and fews.
I never doubt that,there are a group of evangelicals, who would say, "Wait a minute. We're evangelicals but we want to respect other faith. We don't want to call its prophet evil. We don't want to call the religion evil. We believe that we have got to learn to live in the same world with our brothers and sisters and we want to be friends. We do not want to be in some kind of a holy war.
Occasionally, though, we are stunned, sometimes traumatized, when people we have known for many years, and for whom we have entertained the highest regard, do outrageous things that seem so terribly out of character for them. What has happened? We thumb through the pages of our minds trying to make sense of seemingly senseless deeds.
@Ol_Arkie: These people aren't voicing hate, they're voicing disgust. Big difference.
We don't hate the church, we are disgusted by it.
...as we all witnessed on 9/11.
like a cup?
The irony is that the technology that allows all the followers to unite from across the globe to see and hear the pope simultaneously is the same technology that he warn about.
He wasn't preaching anti-technology, just against misusing it.
You mean via; swords, daggers, ballista, iron maiden, the boot, hot tongs, rendering tools, the rack, full body flaying, hot pokers, thumb screws, coercion, racketeering, starvation, paedophelia, enslavement via Magdalena Factories, biological warfare, wholesale theft, promotion of ignorance, along with blaming the victims.
Superstition is the problem-not the solution.
A young lady's observations are spot on:
What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...
I dislike the hypocrisy,
the corruption,
the greed
and the lies.
I dislike the veneration of ignorance,
the glorification of idiocy,
the wild-eyed hatred of progress
and the fear of education, which send the faithful shrieking,
vampire-like, from the light of knowledge.
I dislike the way in which prejudice
is passed off as piety.
The way superstition is peddled as wisdom.
The way intolerance is raised to the lofty heights
of "Truth".
I dislike how hatred is taught as love,
how fear is instilled as kindness,
how slavery is pressed as freedom,
and how contempt for life is dressed up and adored as spirituality.
I dislike the shackles religions place on the mind,
corrupting, twisting and crushing the spirit
until the believer has been brought down to a suitable state
of worthlessness.
So lost and self-loathing, so bereft of hope or pride,
that they can look into the hallucinated face of their imaginary
oppressor
and feel unbounded love and gratitude for the additional suffering
it has declined,
as yet,
to visit upon them.
I dislike people's need for a communal delusion,
like drug addicts who unite just to share the same needle.
I dislike the way reason is reviled as a vice
and reality is decreed to be a matter of convenience.
The way common sense and ordinary human decency
get re-named "holy law" and advertised as the sole province
of the faithful.
I dislike religions' wholesale theft of any number
of ancient mythologies,
only to turn around and proclaim
how "unique" their doctrine is.
I dislike how intelligence is held as suspect
and inquiry is reviled as a high crime.
I dislike the pillaging of the impoverished,
the extortion of the gullible,
the manipulation of the ignorant
and the domination of the weak.
I dislike the invention of sins
for the satisfaction of those who desire to punish.
I dislike the demonization of unbelievers,
The ill-concealed hate of proselytizers,
The hysterical rants of holy rollers,
The wigged-out warnings of psychic healers,
The dismantling of public education via religious school vouchers,
The erosion of civil rights by theocratic right-wingers,
The righteous wrath of gun-toting true believers,
The destruction wrought by holy warriors,
The blood-drenched fatwas of ayatollas,
and the apocalyptic prophesies of unmedicated messiahs.
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,
in one grotesque form or other,
will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner
of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.
-end quote
A fantastic demonstration of the inhumanity of Christianity is shown via the young lady (model) who ended up losing a eye and a hand to an aircraft propeller. Partial article quote follows:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46979883/ns/today-today_news/
The 23-year-old model and fashion blogger from Plano, Texas, has made a remarkable recovery after walking into a spinning plane propeller in darkness on Dec. 3, 2011, after going to view Christmas lights in the Dallas area. She had her left hand severed and lost her left eye, which was replaced by a prosthetic one. She is expected to get a prosthetic arm in about a month, according to her parents, and has already returned to blogging and tweeting about fashion.
Throughout the ordeal, the couple did not question why this happened to their daughter.
“I never questioned God in any of it,’’ said Cheryl Scruggs, Lauren’s mother. “I don’t feel any anger towards God or anything and if anything, it just provided me with strength and peace…throughout this journey".
Throughout the ordeal, the couple did not question why this happened to their daughter.
“I never questioned God in any of it,’’ said Cheryl Scruggs, Lauren’s mother. “I don’t feel any anger towards God or anything and if anything, it just provided me with strength and peace…through this whole journey.”
“I’ve never questioned God,’’ Jeff said. “I think the thing is God tells us his ways are higher than our ways and he’s got a plan for her life and that doesn’t mean his plan is going to line up with what my plan is. We’re just faithful in knowing that God is faithful and Lauren’s going to have…a different life that what we planned.”
“I’ve never questioned God,’’ Jeff said. “I think the thing is God tells us his ways are higher than our ways and he’s got a plan for her life and that doesn’t mean his plan is going to line up with what my plan is. We’re just faithful in knowing that God is faithful and Lauren’s going to have…a different life that what we planned.” end quote
All things exist, no imaginary entities required.
@stoney
Problem is what you see isn't always what you get. It may seem that way from your point of view, but that doesn't make it true. You really do need to see both sides of it.
ok, Stoney. She sued and got 1 million when it was her fault to begin with - the pilot told her not to walk to the front of the plan. God told her she was worth a million more, too, I guess, since she already had plenty. I read that article, too, and perhaps she could help some other people with injuries or children that will never grow up to be a person high-paid because of their physical beauty. She could still model and make plenty.
To Stoney,
Loved the quotes (but who were they from)?
Yep, people that never question God, good or bad? Does that mean they never question anything? How can any person learn without questioning? How can not learning be good for anyone? What is the point of living without questioning and seeking?
The first pope was Peter, apostle and disciple of Christ. Peter learned how to do miracles from Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus of Galilee, and Jesus of Bethlehem, all the same person. The reason why Peter could do those miracles was because he submitted himself to God. He knew that God did the miracles if you asked Him in a humble way.
Peter was killed for this and Christians were killed for communicating with God and Christians are still killed for communicating with God. It sounds tough, but everyone must die, so why not get to know God before you die since you will die anyway?
I know that I am a lesser being because I have been present at miracles that have occurred and were documented. Such as the great fire of August, 2007 here in Utah, United States.
This fire destroyed 890 square miles and it surrounded my house coming within a half mile on two sides. All burned as far as I could see. It burned to the dirt. It burned the mountain range about five miles to the east of my house.
In October, 2007, a very large whirlwind, almost a tornado came up to me and grabbed me and threw me around my yard. It spoke and said to follow it. I ran after the whirlwind but could not keep up with it so I climbed into my pickup truck and followed after it. It stopped at a patch of about 200 clumps of burnt cactuses. It said, "I challenge man to do this."
It was about mid afternoon and the cactuses were charred and black. They crumbled when we had looked at them a week or so before. The whirlwind brought them to life. Now, the Mineral Mountains had burned in this fire. All the trees were burnt. The trees were just black sticks.
The tornado went up the side of the mountain and every tree it touched came back to life.
It was several months later that I realized that my neck that had been broken in 1979 and from which I suffered for over thirty years from chronic severe pain and chronic paralysis was healed.
Those who never attempt miracles never exercise their faith and so have no faith. In order to exercise one faith, literally do magic, one must realize man is a lesser being.
well said Amen Happy Easter God Bless !!!
LOL@ angry looking man with delusions of grandeur.
Nice.How about putting up a topic you feel strongly about and I'll randomly,anonymously rip it.As with anything human ,the church is imperfect.The pope is as well.We know that sexuality denied causes ah,um problems.In time many things the church is about will be history.Funny,he doesn't look angry at all to me.
I'm willing to do that Pained. Like most atheists, I feel very strongly about world peace, that humans should put aside things that divide us, like god belief. I also feel quite strongly about human rights and dignity. Basically, I am a humanist who wants to ensure that all humans have a basic minimum standard of living. I am trying to find something I feel strongly about that you might feel comfortable ripping... Ok, I feel strongly about a woman's right to choose and that she should have complete control over her own body including any unborn child she may be carrying. Rip away my friend.
You can deny it all you want, but the ammount of relief the church brings to people throughout the world is more than many ever have been able to and will be able to do. Of course it isn't perfect, but many seem so quick to point out the faults and push aside the good.
And you can deny THIS all you want Ccmnxc, but the catholic church has CAUSED more poverty than they have alleviated with their selfish and ignorant stand against birth control.
That's a lie.
As usual, a Christian picks and chooses when, and to what extent, the tenets of their stone and bronze age superstition apply. Have you forgotten about the "Divine Plan"?
According to your superstition,*all* are mere actors in a pointless play hitting their marks and spouting their lines as scripted when your god shat the universe into being.
Once again a Christian blames the victim. You folks can't have things both ways.
@leroy brown
I don't know where you find this information. First off, from what I've heard, very few people actually follow that rule. Second, if it is such a problem, I don't see a lot of people acting out to help the children born. And anyways, how can the church be greedy if their primary goal, according to many atheists, is to add to the 'flock' so that they can contribute more to the church. I'd appreciate sources. Thanks.
@stoney
You have it backwards. According to our religion, people have free will and can make decisions for themselves. You either don't know the topic or are too biased to make correct statements.
Yes, if we destroy religion we can all live in peace and harmony.
I mean its not like people distort and abuse things to further their own agenda.
Like Bush for instance, I'm sure he attacked Iraq and Afghanistan in the true name of freedom and democracy.
Or that they fight over money, power, or land.
Like how the Gauls sacked Rome, I'm sure they did it in the name of Religion instead of personal benefit.
leroy brown
And you can deny THIS all you want Ccmnxc, but the catholic church has CAUSED more poverty than they have alleviated with their selfish and ignorant stand against birth control.
I think it is slowly coming around. Some forward progress sometimes and a few back-steps along the way. But enough to suggest they are well within the bounds of redeemable. Other than the Dalai Lama (after his eternal line of continuity there's nothin'. He's the last one). The pope is the one guy that for better or worse represents a very large portion (the largest) of the earth's desire to connect with g-d and thus be inspired to yearn and work toward a better world. Think first before jumping on the "dis wagon". (And I'm a Jew that occasionally worships alongside my First Nations brothers and sisters, so YOU think YOU have a bone to pick with the C.C.?....)The next largest group of believers take their cues from an Ayatollah--those guys will never never never have anything resembling a protestant Reformation. They're still fighting 1500 year later over over Mohammad's dynastic succession etc. The Koran is "reformation-proof" Check out what happened to the Bahai u'llah. Expanding our blinders to the rest of the world that most wars are started over good ole greed and politics. Good for the world that only atheists can rise above that. that's what they tell us.
I'm sleeping better already.
Technology is terrific.
What else can give us "The Singularity" and sliced bread?
ccmnxc:
You answered your own question
@Mr. MacD
Yeah, my bad, didn't think that through. I had it reversed in my mind for some reason.
Lot of judgmental people here I know I know it's easy to judge...
The pope and his kind make it all that much easier.
Jim-697095
I think you and I read the same book. It is by the same measure you use that it will be measured out to you. Happy Easter!
Pardon me if I don't get all excited. Not being Catholic, and all.......
When are the media going to realize that five out of every six Americans aren't Catholic? If this were Italy or Mexico, maybe someone would care what he's doing on every holiday.
You're pardoned for not being Catholic. The media reports it because Easter is a Christian holiday and the Pope is the leader of the largest (and first) Christian group. That's why. If you truly just don't care, then skip these articles that upset you. MSNBC has plenty to offer even the atheists.
Hey, Curt...
Yes the Catholic Church was the first Christian Church. But look how they trampled all over that? Why in hell do you think we had a Reformation? Martin Luther saw the corruption going on in Rome. And since then Catholics have blindly followed the church with its simply idiotic beliefs (read: the power of holy water, the esixgtence purgatory, infant baptisms, the 7 sacraments, ad B.S.idim)
Do some research Curt. You'll find that the earth truly does revolve arounbd the sun.
Ol' shovel head.
Nice touch, AME123! I Love the Exsultet! Been singing it for years! Singing tonight at the Vigil @ 7pm - again! Its something I never get tired of! Have a Wonderful Easter! To all our Jewish friends, Happy Passover!
Ever stop and wonder how many people would be able to have food if the Catholic church sold off that mitre or any of the other elaborate vestments the pope wears? I don't recall ever seeing an image of Jesus in anything that gaudy and lavish. Hmmm. Strange that the Vicar of Christ has to wear such wealth that could be put to so many better and more humane uses...
Neither the Louve nor the President of the US claim to be the earthly representative of Jesus who certainly did not live in the manner of any of the Popes. He doesn't get a salary - why would he need one with everything provided for him? Just sad to see how HE lives compared to the people who go without to support his lifestyle!
What I think about most Barbara, is the huge amount of poverty that the catholic church could have prevented by supplying birth control to the poor at their missions instead taking the archaic stand against it that they still do.
There is a difference between a government and a religious organization, Ame123. A church is supposed to espouse and practice its religion and theology. Remember, Jesus said that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of needle than a rich man to get into heaven. Since the church is so wealthy, and the pope is the leader, if he really believed his own theology he would divest the church of its worldly goods.
A government exists to provide necessary services to its citizens, to protect its citizens - and its culture and historypro as well. So keeping and preserving its buildings, property, art, etc. makes sense.
Thank you, both Leroy and Homesick. The comparisons Ame123 made make no sense. The Catholic church has one of the bloodiest, greediest, selfish histories of all religions and it is sad to hear them proclaim to be the Church of Christ. How much better it would be if they were taking care of their people instead of guilting them into contributing ever more for "the Glory of God" and having more and more children to create an even larger contribution base. Not sure that God would approve!
And how much more could they accomplish in education and assistance to their flocks if they did not have the expense of maintaining the Pope in the manner that he lives! Have you ever driven through some of the predominently Catholic areas of this country and others, where the people are led to believe it is more important to support the church than the many children the church insists they have? I have no doubt the church feels it is actively trying to find solutions, but the obvious one is right in front of them. I am sure there are many museums more than willing to take great care of the artwork!
I would like to wish all viewers, Whatever your Religious beliefs are, A Happy and blessed Easter....and Leroy, I will be at Easter Mass myself and will pray for YOU. May God bless and forgive you and...I hope that YOUR mother does not see your comments. I am sure she would not be poud of her son.
Nice work AME,thanks for standing up for THE Church sanctioned by Christ Himself 2000 years ago thru the 'giving of the keys of the kingdom'to Peter...the first Pope. (Mathew 16-18) The keys are the keys of the Davidic kingdom handed down thru the generations (Is.22). These keys were entrusted to the prime minister when the king was absent. It is generational and never ending, A little history goes a long way. These anti Christian, anti Catholics refuse to acknowledge the alleviation of human suffering thru it's hospitals and massive amounts of charities through out the world. Amazing....
AND - it sounds like you listen too closely to the GOP. No one I know of is "begging the aristocrats provide everything for them throught the state." Quite the contrary - the American people are working to restore the greatness of the U.S. and pull away from under the corporate "aristocracy". I have no interest in overthrowing the status quo in our government - just working hard to maintain the sanity and strength that our President provides. Revolution? Nope. Just making sure the religious fanatics don't end up in charge!
Let's not get started on the AIDs spread.
Technology without god is dangerous my back end parts! Wait till you put technology in the hands of some idiot high on his self righteous crusade against those, willing to let him be mind you, "different people". What's that I here from the religious right? Turn it into a parking lot? Get out of the way! That's what the puppets need to really do. I'll make your jebus cry any day if it will stop humans from having to.
Alan, just curious - why would you think I was anti-Christian? That is not true. My point is that it is much more Christian to HELP people who need it than to keep the Pope in such splendor. Granted, the Catholic church does have hospitals and charities, but how much MORE GOOD could they accomplish if they took the money and time invested in Rome and spent all THAT toward the alleviation of human suffering! Which would Jesus rather see, do you think, hungry children being fed or an old man in gilt and gold saying Mass? And Ame123 - Just not spending MORE money in the Vatican would help, especially if the pope were to try to live more like Christ.
People like Barbara make me embarrassed and ashamed to be from Washington. Let's say the Church DOES sell off everything to feed the poor. Will that solve hunger and homelessness? No. Will it even make a dent? Doubtful. Jesus himself said the poor will always be with us. It's up to US to feed and clothe the poor, not the Vatican. The Church belongs to all Catholics. What was given to the Church belongs to the Church; it is not the Pope's to give away. It is sold to the highest bidder, it will all likely go into private hands, never to be seen again. And the poor will still be with us.
My church and many others do a lot of work toward helping the poor and those in need. And yet we do not venerate our church leaders with riches and an extravagent life style. I know you have been indoctrinated with the Catholic church for a long time and therefore will not listen to any reasonable arguments against it. Just always saddens me to see children standing barefoot and hungry while the pope wants for nothing. He is not a god - merely a man who was chosen by his peers to lead your church. My conscience could never accept Catholicism as what Jesus foresaw for his church and the care of his children. I will keep you and yours in my prayers and please, have a blessed Easter.
Then I am afraid there are an awful lot of lying Catholics! Their attitude is worship or the closest thing to it!
Barbara, you must not know many Catholics. I don't know any who "worship" the pope; most of the ones I know aren't even particularly interested in the pope. They go to church, try to do good things for others who are not so fortunate, and generally get by in life like most other folks. And I know very few who have more than 2 or 3 kids. By judging everybody else's faith, aren't you being a bit righteous? I haven't seen an organized religion yet without a whole host of very human problems surrounding it's hierarchy. Like everything else in life--very imperfect.
then you don't know any Catholics Lee... the pope is their thing....
Alan,
I was in a Catholic hospital lately. I am far from rich. As I remember it, they sent me a tremendous bill, sent me home with an infection, and overmedicated me while I was there. Gee, thanks!
@cmach
I'd say I know a few dozen Catholics, and I haven't seen anything venerating the pope. Maybe we're just out of touch with the rest of the Church, but I doubt it.
Not only our Governments but everyone within the community, its our moral obligation to see everyone with a job and or a means of caring for themselves.
@ccmnxc...I guess since I live in South Texas and there are so many Catholics here I see it more.
Bowing or rising from your chair to show respect to a country's leader (or even a religious leader) is not the same as what the Catholics express toward the pope. Quite a stretch there, Ame123!
In 1971, John Lennon released a song, Imagine. In the song, he asks people to imagine there being no divisions between countries, no religions, no heaven, no hell. He was lambasted from here to forever for condemning God and people's beliefs, etc. However, all he ever said was, IMAGINE and never suggested that any of it actually be done. While no Lennon, I wonder how many people who came back at me with somewhat nasty and rather belligerent comments ever noticed that my original posting asked if anyone had ever stopped to wonder about the wealth of the church and whether it could be put to greater good. I cannot believe that every Catholic has not at some time had that thought - I know those of us who are not in the church certainly do.
I agree Barbara..
Ame..I am not loosely connecting anything. You really should not assume...
Lennon didn't abandon his son. He divorced his son's wife. Lots of people do that. Actually 50 percent is what I understand.
Right. Thanks, Ame123, for not getting it and therefore proving my point.
God without Technology is much more dangerous. Technology will eventually put to rest the fantasy of religion...
Silly Rabbit, facts are for kids. How can any fact, proof, or example put fiction to rest? The power of belief is that it can withstand anything, including reality!
It is not surprising that the pope would "warn" against "technology"; the pope and the catholic church have steadfastly resisted the advance of scientific knowledge, even when such knowledge proves itself to be true.
To the pope and the church, rational knowledge is the enemy precisely because such knowledge weakens the church by demonstrating that so much of the church's teachings are simply not true.
Now that technology has started (only just started) to push religious nonsense aside, the pope wants to stay in the game by warning that god (meaning the pope's brand of religion only) should be a part of it all.
Bmette - You are actually quite wrong. The Catholic church has many scientists and even an observatory. The Church studies science because it is the wonder of God. Every advancement is only an advancement in the scope and breadth of God.
I am seeing a lot of really uneducated suppositions (and hate) about the Catholic Church. They invite science but with morals and Godliness. The whole reproduction bit, you have to realize that their belief is all things from God are sacred, such as a child. They cannot, no matter the call of the day, go against that. It's not up for debate.
I will also say that the Catholic Church is one of the largest caregivers and charities that there is. They run many orphanages, administer to the Indians and would run more adoption agencies if the state didn't tell them they have to adopt children to gay couples. They cannot do that, it is against their beliefs of a man & woman as the only marriage unit, for pro-creation.
They respect the Pope, there is NO ONE that worships the Pope.
I've often wondered if this man honestly believes he is God's representative on earth for the Catholic faith or if he realizes he is just another modern day politician. The Catholic hierarchy, IMO, doesn't do as much for humanity as it does to enrich its own coffers. It makes sure it doesn't offend any political powers that be. It will stand firmly on its anti contraception stance but little to punish child molesters. Its churches and cathedrals are awash in gold, silver and precious gems, while third world Cathilic countries are impoverished. It's great, retroactively, on apologies but does nothing to be proactive. The Catholic faith could have been a moral force, but this "brotherhood" has gone the way of all infalible, egomaniacal clubs.
If you ask a poor man who goes to a beautiful church if it should be torn down and sold so they he could have more to eat, I'm willing to bet he'd look pretty offended.
ccmnxc,
I'm pretty sure if you were able to ask Jesus the same question, he'd say yes, you should 'sell your possessions and follow me'.
@rrobeson
Point taken. Although, a church isn't mine to sell. And seeing as he told us to give our things to the poor, the poor would have to want them. If I tear down a church. I'd be taking from him and many others to give back to him anyways.
Why is Nazi Emperor Palpatine so angry about technology? what a dick!
It's because most people stop being obedient sheep once they gain some modicum of scientific literacy.
Please cite one reputable scientist that is also a fundamentalist Christian
Yeah, all I hear are crickets.
Yep just chirp, chirp.
Albert Einstein believed in a Creator. For additional scientists who are either Christian or at least question evolution, see the following link: http://www.cpals.net/forums/index.php?/topic/10089-famous-scientists-belief-in-creator/
Indigo Halo posts 14.2 and 14.3
http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/fathers-of-science
I personally believe there is a difference between believing that God's son died on the cross to save everyonel from their sins and believing there is a higher power.
I do hope people can set their hatred aside for one day to celebrate "life"!
Hey Lisa-2564810 WRONG!!!!!! Einstein did not believe in a god. Your little Christian Connection post from one of it's members is not true. As usual the religious have misunderstood Einstein's comments. Search the internet for the real answer if you like.
Greg - a direct quote from Einstein:
I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
Spinoza DID believe in God, a Creator who is abstract and impersonal. Thus, when Einstein says he believes in Spinoza's God, logic follows that no one could misunderstand his point of view - he DID believe in a Creator.
As for the source, I chose it because it had the other lists of scientists, not because it had the Einstein one near the top and CERTAINLY not because it was a Christian backed source. If the data is valid, then the bias of the source doesn't matter.
No he did not please do more research (there than christian blogs) for the truth.
Beware of technology with God.
Technology + God = Iran
Technology - God = North Korea
Seems like the human equation cancels all God variables out!
Beware Zombie Jesus, too.
"...Technology without God is dangerous."
Ironic seeming a world with Catholicism is dangerous.
And you say that based on what? What is it about Catholicism that scares you?
Easy. Ignorance. Sheeplethinking. Hatred preached in the church. Persecution of many people by the church (see history of the Spanish Inquisition, history of the Crusades, etc.) Rick Santorum. I could go on....
Sherry, cmon now...what hatred is being preached in the Catholic Church? We go every week plus sometimes daily Mass and the only msg we hear is love, mercy, the forgiveness of sins, the power of the cross, etc. What's the beef with Rick Santorum? Do you not like his courage to stand up and speak for the unborn children being slaughtered in the mothers womb?
Alan: The RCC spews hate and lies all the time. Rick Santorum has, on numerous occasions, stated that children would be better off with straight parents in who were convicted criminals in jail rather than gay parents. Most rational people would consider it "hateful" to be considered morally inferior to a rapist or a murderer. Likewise, Ricky's idea that the Federal Government has a stake in what kind of sex you have in your own home should be frightening to everyone -- regardless of faith.
Oh, and Alan? How many babies have you adopted from scared teenage girls who were considering abortion? Oh, none? Exactly. SHUT the F--- UP!!!!!
@Indigo Halo
I somehow doubt everything that Santorum says would be endorsed by the Church or Jesus. I can't help but disagree with his statement you posted.
I do not think Santorum is Catholic. How many kids have YOU adopted indigo. That is what I thought. i would say the Catholic Church does more for unwed and adoption agencies than any other agency in the world.
So SHUTthe F...UP!!!!
So the pope would like technology that has an awareness of God and moral values? Hey, I've got a project he could fund, it's called Skynet!
First technology without knowledge of God: club
Second technolgoy without knowledge of God: spear
Third technolgoy without knowledge of God: gun
Fourth technology without knowledge of God: bomb
Fifth technology without knowledge of God: missile
The pope seems a little behind the times on his warnings.
Personally, I prefer religions that believe their God is all knowing, all powerful, and ever present (omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent). Too bad the pope doesn't. Of course, if God was that, then why would humans need a pope?
And yet Christians *never* refrain from using clubs, spears, guns, bombs, and missiles in order to murder others -- all for the glory of their Bible God.
Which is really ironic because that exactly what they're not supposed to do. God didn't order them to kill. It's human fault.
You should read the Bible sometime. God tells his faithful to murder others all the time.
God even does it himself.
@Indigo Halo
I'll assume you're talking about Old Testament laws. At the time, Israel was pretty much a theocracy, with God as the ruler. There was a moral and civil code that people had to follow to keep society functioning, keep people safe, and give credit to God. When people didn't follow these rules, they caused problems for the community and for the rulers. Think of it as treason. When the rules were developed, there were no jails to lock troublemakers away in. Banishment was an option, but wandering around without any shelter or support would be a much more lonely and painful way to go. Now, breaking these rules occasionaly wouldn't be much of an issue, but if you are constantly causing problems and breaking the law, there are going to be issues. For the sake of argument, whether or not you believe in God, these people did, and they believed God's laws were perfect because He was perfect. People who disregarded the laws were seen as a threat to society, so they were gotten rid of. Better punish the criminal than to let him/her cause more problems for the people.
You could also be referencing the wars. Killing all of the enemy combatants showed which side God was on (if the other armies had god/gods, they'd be depending on them). This demonstrated that the Israelites had God, which would make them win, and it showed they were on the side of righteousness. Destroying the other armies would help protect Israel and its people.
God also wanted some rulers of the time dead. These were wicked rulers that oppressed their people and led them away from God. The world would truly be a better place with them gone.
God never killed the innocent, and He loved his people. However, He needed to show them who was in charge and whose side He was on. If God killed or ordered the killings of people, then it was because killing these people would be better than letting them live.
I haven't recieved a memo from God telling me to kill someone, and right now, the rule is to love your neighbor, whether they be friend or foe, and love God. I believe my previous point still stands.
Oh really?
LOL. Thanks, I needed a good laugh!
That's your justification for defending god's actions? Seriously?
When the Bible said God wiped out the Earth with a flood, it said ALL people were wicked and evil (minus Noah). I see no innocence there. Though I guess no human is truly innocent, the people, he killed were wicked. When Abraham asked God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah, God said He'd spare them if there were innocent people in thecities. There weren't. Find me an example of where God killed a totally innocent person.
"That's your justification for defending god's actions? Seriously?"
Today, there are soldiers in the Middle East killing terrorists who would kill innocent people. Do you find their actions unjustified? They get rid of the terrorists because letting them live would likely cause innocent and righteous people to die. If you disagree with justified killing, then I can't help you.
Which of course, never actually happened and is just another borrowed myth.
So I guess infants, children, plants, and animals were all wicked? Seriously?
Since god is so smite happy, I guess that makes him the most wicked of all. Oh the irony!
Prove god actually killed anybody! Better yet, prove there actually is a god!
God is a terrorist himself. But since terrorists kill innocent people, then soldiers killing them is a for of pre-emptive self defense. God doesn't seem to be killing terrorists himself. I guesss he's ok with terrorism.
Oh, so god is justified then? Why, because he says so? That's some ogre people worship!
As usual, the Church stands against science and the continuing ascension of the human race. It is only a matter of time before humanity comes to the logical conclusion that the three Abrahamic religions (of which Christianity is one) are nothing but greedy, blood-thirsty murder cults.
The Pope is an old white Nazi in an expensive white dress. You could probably feed several thousand impoverished families for a year just on what that dress cost.
Ame123.
Wow, and not a saint among them. Go figure!
@IndigoHalo
You seem to have as much faith in science as I do in God. Ironic huh?
Ame,
Sorry, but Lemaitre "proposed what would become the Big Bang theory in what he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom.'" [Wikipedia]. The hypothesis (not a theory) was part of the body of knowledge that eventually was called the "Big Bang Theory" by Hoyles, who, at the time, favored the Steady State Theory. A great deal more thought went into the development of the mature theory, including Einstein's Theory of Relativity, and I don't believe he has been canonized....
Stalin, Mao, Ghenghis Khan, Hitler, Attila the Hun, Pol Pot, Amin, Hirohito, Lenin all killed more in the name of nationalism than all the Wars over Religion combined. And that is not even including the Romans during the Roman Empire and the Ancients (like Sparta) before them. Religion may not be perfect, but it has proven to be a lot better for humanity than no belief in God, Satan, Heaven or Hell.
god is creat
Hope he burned his Nazi Youth Membership card by now.
Perhaps his nazi youth can be forgiven Ame, but not his coverup of child rape, sorry.
The catholic church moved around and shielded priests that they KNEW raped children. Sorry Ame, that is unforgivable.
I'll bet that website isn't run by the catholic church....
This POPE as they call him looks like a pedophile to me. Get him the hell out. He's just nasty.
BOYD
If you think any 84 year old looks like a pedophile, you need a shrink!
I think the pedophile is you a-hole. If you think any 84 year old is a pedophile you must be one yourself.
Some may say blind faith has made me blind. I feel that blind hate has blinded you, AM BOYD. It's hard to tell if someone is a pedophile if you are blind.
Beware God-----more harm has been done in the name of God by religious fanatics, the Church Militant, than in the name of any other of Man's ideas...
Don't beware of God, just beware of those who claim to hear or talk to him.
Gotta love blaming the scapegoats.
God is love.
God IS a human emotion Curt? That's all god is?
I'll peel off the jargon for you leroy. God expresses perfect love that none can match or comprehend. His love is so great that it is a major part of Him. All love originates from God, and without Him, love as we know it wouldn't exist (although I guess we wouldn't exist either).
Not according to your bible.
"You know, I rather like this God fellow. Very theatrical, you know. Pestilence here, a plague there. Omnipotence... gotta get me some of that." ---Stewie Griffin, Family Guy
Love is just an emotion, based on biochemical reactions in the brain. God has nothing to do with it.
More like human imagination. Or delusion.
No Leroy Brown, love is not an emotion. Your emotions are your compass whether you are in sync or not in sync with God, there is a vast difference. Love is a creative energy....
Most behavioral pshychologists would disagree with you. Love is an emontion like any other and originates in the brain.
I'm an atheist. So does that mean I'm incapable of loving? Because I can tell you right now that's absolutely false!
Between your fantasy and reality maybe!
Love is a biochemical reaction in the brain. That's pretty much it!
I didn't say it was meaningless. Their occurances are determined by internal and external factors.
Just because you don't want to recognize or acknowledge a higher being or source energy doesn't make you incapable of loving.
It is pretty amazing what that biochemical reaction in the brain can do! So exactly what do you call it when you focus on something and it comes Gordy? Biochemical _________?
Thank you. Then by extension, a higher being or god is irrelevant or independent of emotion.
The brain itself is pretty amazing.
What do you mean?
Jesus said:
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)
Your sick lucky36ca get a life
Anyone that thinks if they don't judge, nobody will ever judge them, please raise your hand.
F. Flintstone said:
Yabadabadoo!
So what?
Liberals can't stand to be judged by anyone about anything, yet have no problem passing judgement themselves on everything. Just like the "tolerance" displayed by liberals on this thread showing how "open minded" they are.
Liberals are none of the things they claim to be. Liberalism is nothing but a lie, practiced by nothing but liars.
Nice generality there Conservative. Can you honestly believe that there are no Liberal Christians, Catholic or otherwise? Give it a break already.......
Well said lucky36ac!! The one thats sick and needs to get a life is 3967104!
Ruby: It may be a generalization overall, I'll concede that, but as far as liberalism goes as a whole, my assertions are 100% accurate. Liberals, and therefore the liberal ideology as a whole, does not like to be judged based on the platform positions they hold concerning abortion (and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to start an abortion debate here, but I can't just ignore one of the main positions on which my assertions rest) gay marriage, drug use, economic issues, etc.
Are there defectors within the liberal ranks on all of those positions??... of course, absolutely, but those defectors do not negate the overarching philosophies of the ideology as a whole.
However, for what it is worth, I will concede your point. You are right, at least to the extent that it is not a totally monolithic ideology.
I,m not catholic and that person is just a man, the catholic church played a bad part in history they have killed people in the name of God enslaved them, took all they could from them yes I'm referring to all the native of this continent so the HELL with the catholic church. hope people will open thy eyes some day.
Ignorant post of the day.
Do a little research yourself.
http://grisham.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/05/10582624-the-horror-of-native-american-boarding-schools
There have been many forms of Evil done by various organizations of Man throughout history, but none of them have murdered, raped, stolen from, enslaved, subjugated, suppressed, and outright committed more heinous acts of pure evil on more people..., than the Catholic Church!
3967104 you need to shut up because you sound stupid and ignorant.
You want to correct for the wrongs done by the Church?
First, stop trying to spread your teachings and beliefs to others. Entirely!
Create free schools for the Native Americians, completely without any crosses, prayers, uniforms or religious trappings of any kind. Hire the best teachers and pay them well. Hire the tribe Elders to teach their children the teachings and history of their culture. Not once utter the word "Jesus", or "Bible", or "God" in any of this.
Get completely out of ALL Politics and Science. Teach you beliefs ONLY in your Church. If you can't instill in the hearts and minds of your followers there, the 'right' things to do..., stop trying to do so outside of the Church. Let them make their own decisions freely, but stop trying to influence government laws and policies in an effort to limit the freedom of choice for everyone.
Recognize that the United States of America is founded on the complete Freedom of Religion, NOT as a "Christian" Nation. Support the movement to remove the phrase "In God We Trust" from our currency, and "Under God" from our Pledge of Allegiance, which was enacted in the 1950's, as a violation of the Constitution of the United States.
Immediately suspend all Church Officials from all duties when any charges of sex crimes are reported, turn them and all you records of such over to the Authorities for investigation.
All Catholic Hospitials are free to all. No charge, no cost. No crosses in every room. No Prayers. No religion at all, unless the patient wants them. And above all..., recognize that a Woman has the right to decide for herself what to do with her body. Even if it goes against you beliefs.
Do all of this and more. Then, just maybe, you might start making amends for all the wrongs and crimes done by the Church in the name of your God, to so many people and cultures, over so many centuries.
Consider it as Penance.
Very good Solomon... Ame . You just don't get it..
Ame,
Please point out just where, in my above post, do you think I suggested to censor people, and to eliminate religious freedom. I'd really like to know where you saw that.
@Solomon
Not possible. I can see how it makes sense from your point of view, but it still isn't possible. Since we believe in a power that supersedes all government and free will, that is who we would choose to answer to. We don't disregard the American Government, it's just that, when my religion and government are in conflict, I know where my loyalties lie. Even though it will probably be in vain, I will try to change laws that I believe are wrong because I feel it is my duty. The first person I answer to is God. I do my best to find compromise between the two, but in the end, since I believe in an afterlife and in God, I feel my choices now will have far reaching effects on me and others both during my life and after I die.
ccmnxc.. Do you not find it funny that your god and bible tell you to make sure to pay taxes and do what your governing people say? I do. I feel that if there is a god, he would say to do what is right. NOT to have slaves and pay taxes and give to government elite rich people.. Even your bible says that being rich won't get you into his heaven..and yet, it also says to keep on paying the rich. It also says slavery is okay... Get a grip...
I couldn't believe what ccmnxe was posting. I can only believe ccmnxe = Americian taliban. Blind faith is scare for the rest of use.
There aren't any laws right now that directly affect my faith. Sure God tells us to obey the government...as long as the government isn't directly challenging Him. As for the taxes, remember that he was directing this to the people of Israel, who payed taxes to Rome. Although they helped support the Caesar's lifestyle, they also helped build roads and support the army, which then defended the empire. Pressing the government's buttons would have been cause to persecute Christians and cause even more suffering for people. As for slavery, the Bible recognizes slaves, but it never actually condones it. Most of the slaves at this time were prisoners of war, and the Law of Moses dictated they were to be treated humanely. Those slaves were closer to what we'd think of as indentured servants than to more modern slaves. Also the Israelites never sold slaves like other kingdoms did.
Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
That pretty much sounds like condoning slavery to me.
Solomon, you directly endorse censorship with your statement "First, stop trying to spread your teachings and beliefs to others. Entirely!" The Constitution guarantees me freedom of speech to spread my beliefs. In fact, the English settlers came ot this land for this reason. I will shout the truth that God created this world and mankind, that mankind rebelled against him, and that his son Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, lived to show us his father, and died to make possible the forgiveness of his father to mankind and reconcile those who believe to himself. I will proclaim this truth to counter the lie that man is sufficient in himself, that there is no God, and that mankind can ultimately succeed apart from him. The Bible is the word of God, and it should absolutely be taught in every school to every student. This is not to exclude science or other religions, false though they may be, but the truth of the Bible and of science are not incompatible for the most part, up to the point that science seeks to deny the existence and supremacy of God.
“He who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7)
Church is for sinners, I don't go.
Church is for people with commitment to God and a place to learn more about Him
that is kind of like inbreeding and you know what that can lead to.
Let's be frank... technology WITH "God" is much more dangerous...
@the Gundeck
"How so?"
Let's take the airplane... a very useful technology. But add some god, and it becomes a building seeking missile.