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Subscribe to RSSSouth Korean intelligence officials say North Korea may be preparing for a third underground nuclear test. The possible test comes at the same time as North Korea is poised to launch a satellite. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
When we learned that North Korea was planning on opening its tightly restricted Sohae Satellite Launching Center to foreign journalists for the first time, NBC News quickly decided we would need an expert eye to determine the accuracy and authenticity of Pyongyang’s claim that this latest rocket launch was for peaceful scientific purposes.
North Korea says it is planning to launch a weather observation satellite using a three-stage rocket during mid-April to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the birth of North Korean founder Kim Il Sung. But the United States and South Korea say it is a test of a ballistic missile.
So NBC News invited James Oberg, our “Space Consultant,” to accompany us into North Korea to view the Kwanggmyongsong-1 satellite.
With a 22-year career as a space engineer in support of NASA’s spaceflight operations, Oberg has the experience and technical expertise to determine the veracity of North Korea’s claims about this mission.
NBC sat down with Oberg after visiting the Sohae Satellite Launch Center on Sunday to get his initial impressions of the facility, the mysterious satellite and the future of North Korea’s space program.
Q. What are your first impressions from this visit to Sohae?
A: It was just amazing to be there, and the impression was that someone in the North Korean government made a very courageous decision to let us in.
Q. Going into this, you said you had a couple of standards you were looking for in this satellite that would in your mind, settle whether it was real. What were they?
A: I expected the satellite to be in a clean room; a clean environment free of dust, smudges and things. I expected the satellite to probably be already mounted on the third stage [hardware that connects to the booster] and ready to move out to the launch pad. I expected the satellite to have a reasonable design; it should follow standard designs, like power and solar panels and so forth. I was really surprised by what we saw.
Inside North Korea: Closely watched launch poses risks
Q. So did this satellite pass muster?
A: The satellite did not meet the expectations I had. I have to ask myself whether these expectations may have been too narrow, but at the same time it raised questions in my mind as to how real what we were being shown was. We asked whether this was a mock-up; in fact, we kept on asking them again and again because they insisted this was a real satellite.
The problem is the North Koreans didn’t just let us in [to the same room as the satellite], they let us get much too close. I could’ve walked three steps and poked it with my finger. But I didn’t want to put grease and smudges on the outside because it could lead the device to overheat in space or it could change a lot of things about the electro-static environment. So you need to protect the satellite from contamination – from touching, from people breathing on it, sneezing on it. And we were all coming in covered in dust after a long road trip. They didn’t protect the satellite from any of that.
Maybe the satellite is built to be rugged; maybe they don’t care. We’ll find out if they launch it, if it works or not.
Q. Talk about your first impressions of the satellite. Was there anything surprising about the satellite to you?
A: I thought at first it was a model. I thought it was a symbolic representation. I couldn’t believe it was flight hardware. I couldn’t believe it was the one being launched in a few days.
It’s certainly not a design I’ve seen much before. Right now, I’m curious about how the satellite was designed. I think perhaps they were worried we would be interested because until today they had not released a photograph or even a drawing of it. They kept its configurations a secret. Maybe it’s because they realized it was going to puzzle people.
Q. Talk about the significance of this launch. Why is it important?
A: This is a very significant launch because of the publicity on it. It’s going to be much harder to fake it if something does go wrong. But we should be prepared to accept a launch abort or a mission failure in a mature way, because that’s what happens to space powers when they start their program.
The significance of the launch, of course, is the booster itself. The booster is bigger than it has to be. It’s based on Han missiles. It’s not a military missile … but it’s darn close. Like we’ve said on TV, this rocket is not a weapon, but it’s maybe 98 percent of one.
It can be converted all too easily and all too frighteningly into a weapon, and they don’t need it. They don’t need a booster of this size, of this cost, to launch a satellite they say they want to. They seem to be overdoing it, and that can hurt a country, not help it.
For example, the Russians were seriously involved in building similar projects like their own Buran space shuttle just to compete and show off to the West. And they contributed significantly to bankrupting their own intellectual potential and real budgets in the 1980s as [the Soviet Union] was grinding to a halt.
They didn’t go bankrupt because of the Buran project, but it did symbolize the wasteful spending that they were doing based on merely show-off projects. Those lessons should be taken to heart in a rational -- hypothetically rational -- North Korean regime.
Q: In your opinion, what are some of the problems the North Koreans face in launching this satellite?
A: The North Koreans face scheduling pressures as they have stated publicly already that they will launch it in time for a national holiday, and not just any holiday, one of the most profound national holidays in the country’s history [the 100th birthday of North Korea’s founding leader, Kim Il Sung]. That kind of pressure has frequently led to disaster in other countries’ programs.
So I think the odds of them actually successfully launching is a real toss-up. I wouldn’t want to put a number on it, but in my opinion it’s significantly in doubt that they’ll get this thing into orbit. And then, once it’s in orbit, I think it’s significantly in doubt that they can make it work. But they’re going to try, and they’ve chosen to do it in the full glare of publicity.
But I think they need to be rewarded for making that decision. It doesn’t mean that we have to believe everything they have said, but we should at least pay some attention to it. It is a very dynamic situation because of the North Koreans' unprecedented openness. If we don’t want them to slam the door shut, we probably need to find some way of making it pay off for them.
Q. We only had limited access to the North Koreans’ launch control room, but can you give us your impressions of the area and its team?
A: As I’ve observed the control team, they were obviously set up in staged positions. The main thing I was impressed with was the familiarity of it from my own experience on our mission control. It really struck me as too elaborate and too authentic to be a fake. It felt real to me. The director’s presentation and answers felt real. They resonated with my own experiences, and so I have no doubt that they’re showing a genuine launch control center. To see this team there, it was a remarkable feeling of familiarity, even though I couldn’t understand them except through the interpreters.
Q. If the launch is successful and the satellite deploys and accomplishes its mission, would that be a step toward North Korea becoming an equal partner in space?
A: It’s a sign they’ve put a lot of money on show-off projects because the actual services they expect to get from this [weather] satellite can be obtained tomorrow with a credit card. There are a number of providers who already supply the information this satellite is supposed to provide like taking orbital pictures, providing weather data, etc. For a country of approximately 24 million in the economic state it’s in now, it basically can’t afford a rocket of this size. They are spending far too much money for a service they can easily obtain elsewhere. So the reasons for the launch must lie elsewhere. They probably want to sell these rockets to other countries. These other countries probably don’t want them for peaceful purposes either.
More from James Oberg in msnbc.com's Space News section
Inside North Korea: Closely watched luunch poses risks
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Of course it's a military missile...scaled down to distract us into thinking it isn't a military missile. We can rest assured that they "aren't there" yet and they can enlighten us at their will.
The substance of this article is pretty flawed and would come closer to "propaganda" than to insight.
1) The comments about the Buran were waaaaay off the mark. This old Soviet program has long been declassified by the Russians and it was not just "showing off." When the US committed to the Space Shttle it was very obvious to scientists in other countries that it was primarily a military vehicle. It was limited to low earth orbit and the payload bay was designed around a KH-series spy satellite. There were alternate payload packages (that were actually built and still exist at Vandenburg AFB) that would also make the Space Shuttle into a quick-reaction space weapons platform. The Soviets were scared of this sort of capability that would reduce their potential warning times to under a minute. So they built their own, the Buran. It was not a copy of the Space Shuttle and actually corrected a number of design deficiencies with the shuttle. The Buran had a much larger payload in both size and weight. But its major difference was that it had its own internal fuel storage and could use its onboard engines, unlike the shuttle, to send it above LEO. But when the first Buran was launched, it became obbvious that it was a huge waste of money. They discovered, as did NASA and the USAF, that it could not be cycled in hours, but required weeks or months to cycle. They also discovered that it was simply too expensive to operate and less useful than their existing big dumb lifters. So they wisely scrapped the project. The American military made essentially the same decision, leaving NASA stuck with a white elephant.
2) The North Korean missile is essentially not well-suited to be a military weapon. All three stages use liquid propellant. Military ICBM's need to be solid propellant so they can be stored in a "ready" status and so that they have a quick-reaction capability. Calling the Unha-3 an ICBM gets a little ludicrous when you consider that it would take the North Koreans several days to prepare it for launch, a period in which the missile would be incredably vulnerable. Even the Iranians have moved on to solid propellants for exactly those reasons. Trying to use it as a military weapon would be a lot like a robber asking you to wait for several days with your hands up while he went home for some bullets.
3) The concept that North Korea could buy satellite photography and weather base data on the open market is just flat wrong. There are sanctions and embargoes in place that forbid it. And a locally-controlled weather satellite, even a rudimentary one, would be invaluable in time of war when weather information becomes critically important.
4) The author derided the satellite itself as low-tech. But in fact, when you drop back several generations in technology, a clean assemly environment actually becomes less important. The components are simply not miniturized enough that a dust mote would compromise it. And there are technologies that the North Koreans could have adopted that would also make a sterile environment unnecessary --- such as unit-block construction in which computer components are encased in a resin to ruggedize them.
5) The author seems to have missed the military and diplomatic significance of this launch. From a military standpoint it directly addresses what has been a North Korean weak spot --- guidance systems. From a diplomatic standpoint, it is a trump card than can be played at the upcoming six-party talks. A successful space shot followed by a successful nuclear test would be a very desirable start to the resumed talks and significantly ups the ante.
While I do not believe that this missle itself is intended to be military, I do believe that the technology is a huge step toward future military missiles. I would bet dollars against donuts that there will also be a nuclear weapons test simultaneously with the launch or just as the public furor from the launch subsides. I am an old North Korean intelligence analyst and this sort of invitation to foreign journalists, especially Americans, is a singular event. It is a gutsy move, but if the launch fails catastrophically the North Koreans could quickly divert attention from the launch pad failure by conducting a nuclear weapons test. If the launch appears successful to the visiting journalists, but fails to put a satellite into orbit, the North Koreans will do what they (and many other goverments) always do, lie about it.
But it is a waste of time to try to accuse the North Koreans of conducting an ICBM test when that satellite, primitive, dummy, or whatever, is sitting there having its picture taken. American credibility has falled so far post-Iraq that any statement to the effect that it was a weapons test would be widely disregarded around the world. And shooting it down simply won't happen. The Yellow Sea is full of Chinese and North Korean subs that would love a chance to sink an American ship that tried to interfere with the launch. (Remember that it was a North Korean sub that sank a state-of-the-art South Korean ASW corvette while it was on active patrol.) The Yellow Sea is simply not a place where a carrier task force can operate very effectively. And once it is passing by South Korea, let alone Japan and Taiwan, it is too high and moving too fast to be intercepted by anything except a lucky shot. The only realistic chance would be a ship-to-air missile or air-to-air laser very early in the boost phase --- a shot that would have to be taken by a ship in the Yellow Sea or an unarmed aircraft over the Yellow Sea. Neither is likely --- too great a risk with too little payoff.
Your analysis is as flawed as you say the article is. The US Titan II was stored fueled, and it was liquid fuel (UDMH and Nitrogen Tetroxide). It could be launched in 30 minutes. The Minutemen II, which I worked on, was solid fuel. This looks very similar to the Minutemen II. Minuteman III used liquid propellant for the third stage (UMMH and tetroxide). So your assessment is way off too. And, to my knowledge, the Russian version of the space shuttle (only about 2/3 the size of the Shuttle so your facts almost certainly are wrong) never flew, but if it did it was only in the atmosphere and not orbital, much like the early shuttle tests with Enterprise.
correction--the Buran made 1, three hour unmanned flight, and never flew again
Chris,
The so-called "white elephant", as you term the Space Shuttle, carried the Hubble into orbit, and was the platform which supported a huge portion of our space science over the last couple of decades. That sort of discovery, in the long term, is without price. It was certainly a better investment than many other programs our nation has spent far more money on over the same time period. And NASA managed (on average) multiple launches every year. . .all on a budget that's right around half a percent of our annual federal budget.
You may not be aware of this, but a significant portion of the Soviet Union's ICBMs were (and are to this day) liquid propellent designs.
You ignored the author's comments on the reasons for the clean room. It's not to prevent dust from interfering with electronics, it's to prevent dirt/oils/what-have-you from causing unforseen difficulties with heat-transfer on the exterior of the satellite. This does not change, regardless of the tech level. In fact, if you step back those generations you speak of, and look at the US space program (or the USSR space program. . .even at the Sputnik level, the satellite was integrated and handled in a clean room) at that time, you'll see the satellites were handled in exactly the same sort of clean room facilities in which they are handled today. For the same reasons.
You may not believe it's a military missile, but all orbit-capable missiles are fully capable of being adapted into ICBMs. It's inherent in the design of any missile that can reach orbit. The only real difference is payload. Guidance is, these days, more a matter of accuracy. But if your goal is to sling nukes, you don't need to be top level tech to acheive a hit on a 10 mile wide city.
I think your assessment of the article is far more flawed than the article itself.
"The Yellow Sea is full of Chinese and North Korean subs that would love a chance to sink an American ship that tried to interfere with the launch. (Remember that it was a North Korean sub that sank a state-of-the-art South Korean ASW corvette while it was on active patrol.) The Yellow Sea is simply not a place where a carrier task force can operate very effectively."
You are operating on the assumption that it would be a ship. The Boeing 747 ABL works. So do ASAT missiles launched from F-15's. They have been successfully tested. So would ASAT missiles fired from ships not even IN the Yellow Sea. It would be foolish to believe that the South Koreans do not have THAAD missiles which could do the job as well (unless you think the North Korean subs capable of sinking all of South Korea). That said, there is much more to be gained (if you think this is all propaganda) from NOT shooting down the missile, but letting it fail catastrophically. . .or even letting it reach orbit, than to take a hit in the arena of international opinion on the likely chance that US intervention would be discovered.
I see all the wanna be Coneheads are popping up, except you ragtopz actually being a trained USAF Conehead (takes one to know one). Yes, I was trained as a Conehead also, missiles I worked on used RFNA or solid propellants, but was trained on other propellants also a very long time ago; however, my primary work was the Warheads, until I got switched to US Military Asymmetric Warfare just before START, SALT, INF Treaties, etc..
Which brings up which Chinese Copy of a USSR Missile does this North Korean Missile look like. And why did they get a Civilian former NASA, instead of a former US Military Conehead to take a look at the North Korean Missile and Launch Facilities.
Chris-749391,
Most of what you are basing your analysis is what is known as "stale bread" information. example: The North Korean ICBMs (Military Version) as shipped thru Bejing China to the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran 2010, are Liquid Propellant. In 2006, the Russian Federation offered the US to use their former Radar sites at Azerbaijan to use as a First line of Defense against the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran's ICBM, and IRBM Threat (and the Russian Federation should know since they sold the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran Missile Technology). On December 2011 President Obama backpeddled on his stance to not implement a US Military ABM defense of Europe of President Bush by deployments of US Military ABMs to Romania. It is estimated (not proven by physical confirmation) that the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran has current 21st Century GNCs (Guidance Navigation and Controls) as manufactured by either the Chinese or Russian Federation, believed to have a CEP of less than 50 meters, these may or may not be also being provided to the North Koreans.
What is NOT mentioned in this article but has been mentioned elsewhere is that this North Korean Missile has a payload of 1,000 pounds and that the satellite being launched has a estimated weight of about 200 pounds.
As far as USN Aircraft Carrier Strike Groups, that is NOT the reason, it is because of the Chinese DF Hypersonic and Supersonic (Dong Feng) Missiles specifically designed to destroy USN Aircraft Carriers by evading the USN Counter Measures and the USN Screening Ships (and the current Block of Agesis ABM Missiles). What sunk the South Korean ship was a Supercavitating Torpedo (underwater guided missile), even the Russian Federation admits that it was a mistake for the North Koreans getting these, as there is minimal or no defense against a Supercavitating Torpedo, especially if launched by an undetected Stealth Submarine. And of course saying one thing, and what the Russian Federation did/does are two different matters since they sold these and Stealth Submarine technology to the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran also, as well as undetectable remote controlled underware mines.
Yashmak is correct about the landbased THAADS versus the limited in range USN Agesis. As the same arguement as lost by the USN (submarine ICBMs) during the INF (landbased IRBMs) debates. No matter what you say a Landbased ABM will always have more capabilites, as there are none of the size and weight limitation required of a ship or submarine. This also increases the amount of Landbased Maintenance Facilites, Repair Parts, etc. available, so the reliability increases also and that does included "packaged missiles" (storage launch container) also.
I think that you're making a HUGE assumption that China would risk war in order to protect a North Korean missle launch. The Chinese have nothing to gain from a successful missle launch, and EVERYTHING to lose from a war.
Barry,I have to agree. The N Koreans may be crazy,but the Chinese are not. They may have differences with the us,and in fact I would regard them as hostile to us,but they certainly understand they need to be part of the community of nations and are not going to back N Korea in a war against the US. They know exactly how it would shake out. The Russians would stay out of it and Great Britain would join us. South Korea ALONE has the capability to deal with North Korea,every single Chinese and North Korean ship would be sunk within a week. China may have a vast army,but we have developed technologies like cluster bombs that take care of those handily. My guess is the North Korean Diesel subs would go down fast,also within the first week. Their old school diesel submarines are obsolete by western standards. The Chinese subs would last a bit longer but I would not put them up against our attack subs. Enemy air defenses will likewise be reduced to ineffective levels rapidly and within a week or two will be completely eliminated. Most of their air force would never even leave the ground. Much like with Iraq,which had very good aircraft,at least by third world standards,those that did get airborne would end up on the ground rather quickly,as pieces of debris.
The thing to remember is,we are almost as crazy about military spending as the North Koreans are. The difference is,we have a powerful economy that produces state of the art technology that feeds our military industry,and the support and co-operation of other first tier industrial powers. For instance,if Japan develops a new kind of missile guidance system or Germany makes a new kind of tank armor they will sell it to us,or at least trade it for something of similar value. The North Koreans have to depend on castoffs from Russia and China. Russia needs the money it gets for the weapons it sells,but they stop at a certain point and wont sell the top of the line stuff to them. Our allies WILL sell or trade top of the line weapons tech in return for something of similar value. North Korea has nothing of similar value to the top of the line russian tech. Most anything they come up with the Russians already have come up with themselves,or stole from us.
Because of our massive military spending and our generally advanced level of technology,our military capabilities are so vastly far beyond even the other industrialized nations,a nation like North Korea cant possibly hope to compete. Even an industrial powerhouse like China cant. It might get ugly and bloodier than the other wars that the US has been in recently,but at the end of the day,even with Chinese backing,it would be as lopsided as it was in WWII when Germanys state of the art army and air force stomped all over all those nations whose level of military tech was still pre-WWII.
Anyone ever stop to think that perhaps it IS a decoy, not a "military missile," but an attention getter so they can get on with the real "military missile" and convince us of their missile expertise by showing us how they work when aimed at a target - us.
i bet that thing would make a glorious light show if we shot it down a few miles in the air
And as usual, this is going to spark a pro-Pyongyang sweep in the South Korean elections coming up.
Mostly there will be no pro-North Korean issues coming up. Among older South Koreans, there is extreme distrust at best and out and out hatred of North Korea at worst. Among younger South Koreans, most are actually against reunification because of the devastation it would cause to South Korea's economy --- many times worse than the effect of the adsorption of East Germany had in a unified Germany. North Korea is such a basket case that because of malnutrition, the average North Korean is around 15 IQ points lower than the average South Korean.
There really isn't any pro-North faction in South Korea. While there are some "political" groups that are allowed to operate in South Korea, the government keeps a pretty tight rein on them and restricts their activities by severely restricting their money. Mostly in South Korea, pro-North groups are more about being able to freely state an unpopular opinion than about that opinion itself.
I didn't say "pro-reunification," Chris.
I feel bad for the engineers that was dragged into this project, when it will inevitably fail. They will probably get sent to work camps despite being worked like dogs with no time or budget.
Ignore these fools.
If they can ignore their impoverished masses to conduct expensive missile tests -- when no one is even remotely threatening then -- they deserve no further consideration from any of us.
They can conduct all the missile tests they want with their primitive rocket technology. We ain't scared.
But they’ve better not cut too many corners in their rush to show off or they will blow themselves up.
This is just posturing again....Trying to get aid with threats and intimidation. There people are starving and this is there only means since they have alienated themselves with virtually every other country on the planet ........Here is a novel concept.... grow some food instead of building weapons. No more stealing the lunch money of other nations .....
* Their people ....excuse me
North Korean has always been self-sufficient in food, but recent drought, floods, late spring freezes, and other conditions have teamed up with antiquated agricultural methods to prevent past amounts to be harvested. North Korea has very limited arable land and its terrain is not well suited to farming with most of the country being mountainous with steep deep valleys. Virtually all North Korea's agriculture happens in the coastal plains in the west of the Mississippi-sized country.
You left out another important factor Chris. A significant percentage of the arable land NK does have, is being used to farm opium poppies. . .the proceeds from which have long lined the pockets of the ruling elite there. If truly interested in feeding the population, growing food crops on that portion of their arable land would be a good start.
Always self-sufficient in food? The world has been sending food to NK for years.
In terms of resources and land, NK is actually in better shape than South Korea. The South Koreans, however, made far, far better use of what they had.
Well spoken, PValdez.
Good luck;
God Bess you!
North KOREA!
Oh come on.. A modern military missile? Intelligence experts agree that this thing runs on liquid propellant and lacks anything resembling a modern guidance system. Having a guidance system and using solid fuel are the two basic requirements of a missile these days, both of which this joke lacks. This is a 100% home grown fudge and the main threat it poses is that it'll fall on one of our allies when it misfiires. More likely, it'll fall on China and then we'll get to laugh at them too when they try to cover the crash up to save face for the 25 year old dictator of the DPRK.
You'd think with allies like the Chinese, North Korea would at least have mastered the basics of electronic guidance and solid propellants, so I guess we know just how much even the Chinese care (or, more precisely, don't) about North Korea. Oh, and my understanding is that China may have purged Zhou Yangkong, the DPRK's last friend in the Chinese politburo, last week, which means that North Korea not only lacks a missile, they will soon be lacking any friends at all....
CF,
You know, liquid fuel may not be the most modern approach, but modernity scarcely matters if it reaches its target. The Russians actually still have some liquid fueled ICBM's in their arsenal, and the USA has had many quite lethal liquid fueled ICBMS easily capable of hitting cities on the other side of the planet. . .even if those types are no longer in active service. To put it in perspective, in the falling years of WWII, the Germans, with no computers whatsoever, were able to launch ballistic missiles capable of hitting cities from hundreds of miles away. You take the threat posed by even a 2nd-rate NK effort all-together too lightly. The accuracy provided by modern guidance systems is not so important if your target is a major metropolitan area (like Tokyo, for example).
I hope your assessment of this rocket as a joke is correct. However, as someone who works in the field, I'm not prone to quickly dismiss it. The technology may be dated by our current standards. But even though a musket is dated compared to a modern assault rifle, it can still kill you just as dead if you're hit by it.
Its a brilliant Idea. Test a military rocket under the guise of a space program and invite the worlds media to the event in order to make it harder to retaliate against them for it. Think about it. If the launch fails, the test still succeeds. They can analyze the data and reconfigure the rocket. If it is successful they can say "hey, look what we can do". If anyone says this is too close to a military grade rocket, others will say "they didn't know any better". Its kind of like hearing your 3 year old cuss. Sure it's wrong and you don't like it but in the end he was only trying to speak ;)
Tom Clancy wrote a book with that premise. Now, I don't foresee the rest of the book's plot happening, but its a good test with plausible deniability. Realistically, based on North Korea's other ICBM missile tests, this will fail, but the nuke test afterward will likely work better than the last one.
trailor for the videogame "homefront" youtube it. the satelite is actually an emp. this game was released about 2+ yrs ago. also, they removed uns' image from that trailor recently.the media goes out if their way to tell you they are not concerned about the emp, i mean the satelite. only the missle, i mean rocket.
trailor for the videogame "homefront" youtube it. the satelite is actually an emp. this game was released about 2+ yrs ago. also, they removed uns' image from that trailor recently.the media goes out if their way to tell you they are not concerned about the emp, i mean the satelite. only the missle, i mean rocket
I would like to remind people of the United Nations Treaty on Principles on Outer Space:
"Outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free forexploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis ofequality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access toall areas of celestial bodies."
To deny the DPRK access to outer space is wrong. Iran has launched three satellites. A missile program does not consist of two failures. What do you believe the chance of success are?
If our State Department says it's not another step in weaponry, then I guess it's ok for us to send them free food. I wish we would send them some of that ethanol we are so fond of making. Maybe they could turn it back into corn.
Would you purse carrying conservatives quit shaking in your boots, neither North Korea nor Iran has the capability or inclination to bomb America. Conservative propaganda brought to you by conservative garbage people.
Charlie, given the relative inaccuracy of your prior comments on this topic, you might want to re-evaluate that opinion.
they dont need to 'bomb' the us, all they need is their scientific satellite to accidently malfunction and its nuclear power pack to accidently/on purpose detonate while in orbit over kansas. then they can say 'oops, well ya know @!$%# happens' china can make a stern HAAARRRUUMPH as we scramble to get our grid back online after the resulting EMP
Ca n you imagine the shock if the North Koreans were telling the truth? They have been a country of lies and deception even to their own people so I agree with the experts they are probably trying to ket some free PR to sell this thing to other countries.
While I do not believe it will be the case --- Kim's leadership is too new and too fragile --- one has to look no further than Myanmar to see where the winds of change might be a'blowing. If American and European journalists are invited to remain after the missile launch and given pretty wide-ranging access, it could be the start of an attempt to open up their society a crack.
If Myanmar can do it, then countries like North Korea and Syria could do the same. North Korea has something to trade these days --- cheap labor that does not complain about working conditions. And Americans really don't care where their toys and clothes are made.
Army Lance missiles designed to launch Mark 40 nuclear warheads were liquid fuel missiles and their fuel was uploaded before the launch so your assesment is incorrect. Our lance missiles could reach The old Soviet Union from Germany and were terminated by the Salt treaty. It was a medium range ballistic missile later replaced by Atacms!!! The Lance was the only liquid fuel missile in the Army inventory at the time.
Now, let me think, what was the Atlas satellite launch device called before it launched satellites? If it launches like a missile - separates 3 stages like a missile - carries a heavy payload like a missile, it's a %$#&* missile!
Using 'My Cousin Vinny' vernacular, I ask - are you 'suuure' it's not a missile? How can you be so suuure? Because North Korea said so.
Neville Chamberlain reincarnated lives on to negotiate with both Iran and North Korea.
trailor for the videogame "homefront" youtube it. the satelite is actually an emp. this game was released about 2+ yrs ago. also, they removed uns' image from that trailor recently.the media goes out if their way to tell you they are not concerned about the emp, i mean the satelite. only the missle, i mean rocket
Are you "monitoring" it???
Still does not justify a collapse of a democracy and way of life here at home where any potential of threat to any interest becomes a real war time threat by being baked from the inside out while the no cause environments around them -with the same murder program collectively running through them so they can individually demonstrate their innocence- only somehow creates more traction -as opposed to less in a normal society without a dense alternate reality- to smoother anyone across them as the best method to deny a war crime ever occurred becomes to make it as large as possible where the individual difference between what the lawful pretext is that collapsed human rights under a person and their manipulated intent only becomes more leveraged-and not less-the larger these criminal environments become-as to stay ahead of the dangerous mic exploiting this to save gay rights bull @!$%#...
Your ability to focus your entire covert military apparatus to destroy anyone's life you want along with all their dreams whose pursuit is meant to be guaranteed (with FBI no cause hiding the most punishing national interest policy in the world) while you maintain them in an artificial states and drag them through the military environments that somehow only tip them into dismissal faster -as you hold their families hostage with more organic force-while creating as much potential for consequence as possible -after it was almost all de triggered- is absolutely amazing cause every single America's most important rights and assumptions are pure illusion and their greatest liability...
May you truly burn in hell you pig because making a society get used to the unthinkable is his most treacherous act...
Baby steps cause nothing is stopping him from completely destroying anyone he wants under any pretext he wants as everyone is forced to dismiss or accept what is beyond obvious as suppressing the most horrific war crimes on US soil somehow becomes a grown up way of life in what is truly a fascist nation now-under gay rights bull @!$%#...
What gives the United States the right to raise up in extreme criticism, including sanctions, whenever another nation launches a satellite? The US has no ownership of space. Every nation has an equal right to explore space and launch satellites. The US also has no inheritant right to launch an unlimited number of objects into space and clutter the atmosphere with their debris.
If the US does not want other countries to launch objects into space, then share our technology.
US sanctions were not put in place specifically over this, or any other individual satellite launch. They were put together over the very well publicized attempts of NK to perfect a nuclear weapon. You ARE aware they've test detonated examples, right? Given the KNOWN proliferation of weapons from NK found all over the world, and given NK's KNOWN inclination to sell such weapons to our enemies (not to mention the decades of oppression of their own people), I'm inclined to support the sanctions.
For the sake of their own citizens I hope old Euell Gibbons was right: Some parts are edible.
*smiles from the only other person here old enough to remember that darned ad ... think I will go have some Grape Nuts now*
I mis spoke when I said share our technology. I meant to say share our satellite data.
Only the United States and South Korea say it is a test of a ballistic missile..
The world have to believe us..we are always right!
WHO CARES! They've got Bottle Rockets compared to US! NOW! You Wanna Compare Penis'! Same Deal! We can Screw Them Harder Than They Can Screw US! HAH!
SEEMS to me, if you have people STARVING and can afford to blow off Rockets, somethings WRONG! And are we any DIFFERENT!
The satellite "cube" was a joke.
And the rocket is probably designed to fail.
All of this would give NK more clout.
Just like the TNT in the hole.
No one has proven that they EVER had a successful nuclear test.
This is a game of chess for money and food.
And NK is a master at the game.
What sort of 'proof' do you require, Tokyo in ashes?
The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed a nuclear detonation in the 2009 NK test. The USGS measured a 4.7 magnitude earthquake originating at the test site, the tremors from which were felt in China. According to Wikipedia: "Analysts have generally agreed that the nuclear test was successful, despite uncertainty of the exact yield."
Maybe they just got the entire population of the country together at that one spot and jumped up and down in unison. Riiiiight.
You can produce a 4.5 with a chinese firecracker.
Look at the link I posted below and learn.
http://thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/the-north-korean-nuclear-test-what-the-seismic-data-says
why are we not concerned about the satelite? you positive that thing isnt carrying an emp? to blow out our power grid and invade? youtube the trailor for video game "homefront". hell the reporters said they came in covered in dust and the n koreans werent even concerned. cuz its meant to explode over the US. just sayin and please dont be angry with me for sayin. question the the maker of the game. thats just a game though, right? stranger things have happened and are happening......
GEE! HONEY! The kids next door are playing with HAND GRENADES! You Wanna Watch! jeSus!