I believe what they call a "lay judge" is a juror.

The judge at the trial according to Norwegian Law had to allow Breivik to address the panel for his reasons for 'self-defense' in callously killing 77 individuals in bomb attack in Oslo and slaying of innocents in Uleya. Article did not mention that he also iterated to be a spokesman on behalf on Knights of Temple Orgs,Norwegian Opposition Committee,,left political parties,multiculturalism,honour of Norwegian culture and identity. Narcissistic sociopath shedding a tear when his self-filmed brutal killing attack replayed for the panel. The panel member dismissed from the trial is Thomas Indrebo for his Twitter writing. The judge should ban all electronic devices from the panel- since people all over the world are blabbing w/o thinking. Direct addresses by Breivik on TV are banned by the judge-since their meaning is only to spread propaganda.(yle.fi/aftenposten.no/vg/no)

I wish the media would stop giving this nutjob any attention. There are folks out there who agree with him feeding off of his words.

Breivik's point of view is exactly the kind of nationalistic megalomania that was used by Hitler to incite the German nation against Jews, and to support apartheid in South Africa. It also raises its ugliness in the extreme attitudes of tea party Republicanism in the U.S. It is the kind of narrow-minded ignorance, suspicion, and paranoia spread around by heavily financed right-wing PACs and the conservative echo chamber of FOX news and radio talk show hosts.

The idea that only a few 'pure' or as some claim 'true patriot' Americans should have the right to tell others how to think is very dangerous propaganda that should be resisted vehemently by every decent freedom loving American. People like Breivik are the ultimate result of such poisonous propaganda.

Marv, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your post.

I was hoping, while reading the article, that Americans would see a thread of connection between this political psychopath and the most extreme elements of the right in this country.

Whether it is the anti-abortion movement, or the guns rights movement, or the religious right or organizations that are anti-immigrant or anti-tax, these efforts put whole classes of people (and legitimately elected public officials like Gabby Giffords and Barack Obama) into an expendable category.

Children of illegal immigrants can be denied food stamps ... because it's ok to let them die or be undernourished. Young black men like Trayvon Martin can be gunned down because all young black men in hoodies are up to no good and gun rights trump EVERYTHING. Abortion clinic doctors can be shot to death in their own church, and clinic employees can be blown up without a care. A sitting president can have his freaking birth certificate and religion left undefended in a public forum by a politician (Santorum) running for the Presidency of the United States. You can lie in public about a sitting President's birth certificate ... and have people cheering for you.

"Motivated by goodness."

It's like Dale Carnegie says in "How to Win Friends and Influence People", everyone is justified in their actions in their own mind, no matter how misguided or wrongful those actions are. Take this excerpt for example:

Lewis Lawes, who was warden of New York's infamous Sing Sing prison for many years.....declared that "few of the criminals in Sing Sing regard themselves as bad men. They are just as human as you and I. So the rationalize, they explain. They can tell you why they had to crack a safe or be quick on the trigger finger. Most of them attempt by a form of reasoning, fallacious or logical, to justify their antisocial acts even to themselves, consequently stoutly maintaining that they should never have been imprisoned at all."

Tell me that this doesn't sound exactly like this mass murderer, or like the Jihadists that he claims to oppose. How often in life do we do something that is evil in the belief that we are doing something good? How often is it that, when becoming obsessed with our enemy (real or imagined), that we become just like the people we hate?

I think that Anders may very well be insane due to his obsession with Muslims, and having said that being locked in an insane assylum would be a "fate worse than death", I can think of no more fitting punishment for him.

The T-Party (like the Model T, only comes in one color) is so far from what the founding fathers envisioned that it is laughable.
I believe that the founding fathers were very intelligent and given the changing circumstances of the world would adapt to them instead of clinging to what was created for the world of 200 years ago. Things have changed racially since then or haven't you noticed?
What I find particularly amusing is that none of the founding fathers could be elected today given the T-Party's rigid ultra Puritan point of view. Heck Reagan or Goldwater wouldn't be acceptable to them because their views are not 'conservative' enough. Reagan thought we ought to tax the rich and Goldwater warned of religious extremism.

McPhdwee Are you joking? I believe you are projecting. It is impossible to return to any previous era. Political mood swings are always occurring, and so are the sensibilities of each succeeding generation. Change is inevitable. If you believe faux has anything legitimate to contribute to the political discourse you are sadly mistaken. Follow the money to see who benefits by any particular political direction. The US has been in the corrupt stage of capitalism and moving toward oligarchy for 100 years. Everything done since then to thwart the banksters has been met with a larger and larger bag of money to slow the progress of the socialist stage of capitalism. FDR helped engineer a huge shift in the cycle which has been slowed some more by misguided bigots and ignorant paranoia against 'change'. Of course those who have had the power and wealth since the industrial revolution won't give up their hold on this society without a fight. When enough people have the vision that jobs aren't coming back, and that corporations, insurance giants, and financiers are in control of the entire infrastructure of the nation, the revolution will occur in earnest. That is why all of the money is now Globalised!!! Because as soon as the American People rise up TOGETHER, the paradigm will shift.. The oligarchs already have established new feeding grounds around the world. They will leave the host they've ravaged and move on. They don't care what happens to anyone except the shareholders. What is your degree in? It can't be history or philosophy. You demonstrate a great lack of understanding of either.

I'm sorry you feel that way mePH. I take it you are a 'true patriot'. The goal of all propaganda is to force minds to accept opinions that fail to hold up against truth. Your stand is an excellent example.

We, and especially the Tea Baggers, need to start leaving the Founding Fathers out of current political conversations.

1) The Founding Fathers were NOT Christians except for expediency. They were virtually all deists as were most educated men of the times. They believed in Christ only as a historical figure with some good ideas for the time. And they believed in a "clockmaker" God who set the universe in motion and then stepped back to be only an observer thereafter. They did not believe in the literal Bible or in devine intervention is current affairs.

2) The Founding Fathers were dead set against women and regarded them as "vastly inferior" to men. The major exception was John Adams who believed in intellectual equality of women, but also believed that it was such a minority view that it was not worth pushing for womens' suffrage.

3) The Founding Fathers believed strongly in the institution of slavery. They also saw that the entire civilized world was rapidly turning against slavery, but they were reluctant to give up slaves and indentured servants. So they "doctored" the Constitution so that the major issue was put off for decades and gave states with slaves a much higher level of representation in the House of Representatives.

4) The Founding Fathers feared and hated the idea of democracy. They hgad seen it in action with Cromwell in Emngland and the French Revolution and even in some of the American colonies such as Rhode Island. They knew democracy was just as Ambrose Bierce defined it, "Four wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." This was why they made only the House of Representatives directly elected by the people and in order to get all on board with such a bad idea, they gave the House the shortest of all terms in office. If you look carefully, the President, Vice-President, Senators, the Supreme Court, the Cabinet, and all important Civil Service offices are appointed, not directly elected.

5) The Founding Fathers' vision of this country was as a "social democratic" Republic in which well-educated older white men made the decisions for the other 95+%.

We tend to think of the Founding Fathers as somehow super-humans, but they were not. Some were greedy and money-hungry (Hamilton), some were debauchers and womanizers (Franklin), some were diagnosably psychotic (Jefferson), some were anti-religious (Payne), and virtually all felt themselves very, very superior to the average "citizen" and thought that only they were fully capable of making decisions for "The People."

Sorry MPD, but the Tea Party has committed several violent acts in its recent era of rebranding from the conservative movement.

Marv- Everyone should have their right to an opinion... and people should completely understand a point of view before attacking it. It is one thing to group Hitler and this man together. It is completely another to group the tea party with the likes of people who would kill millions that don't believe in the same political agenda. I would say there is a bit of propaganda in your statement.

By the way... I am not a member of the "tea party", but don't think that they are as horrible as you have laid them out to be. I don't agree with everything they stand for... but they don't stand for the killing of those who are different from them. They are using protests and their votes to put people in office with their values. You can use the same tools to fight for those who share your values. That is what's great about America. Keep things in perspective.

Your hatred for the principals that formed this country are the cause of its trouble today. Thankfully, your own words highlight your utter ignorance and like all fringes of society you will be marginalized.

Wow, Breivik couldn't have said it better himself. Save us from ourselves, O wise and mighty right wing! And if the unrighteous must suffer and perish to learn at your feet, so be it.

It is the kind of narrow-minded ignorance, suspicion, and paranoia spread around by heavily financed right-wing PACs and the conservative echo chamber of FOX news and radio talk show hosts.

Hitler's ideas are making a comeback. HERE, of all places.

The Founding Fathers believed strongly in the institution of slavery.

Chris, I have a very high regard for nearly all of your comments, but the encyclopedia Britannica is not so emphatic on that score:

the Founders, with the exception of those from South Carolina and Georgia, exhibited considerable aversion to slavery during the era of the Articles of Confederation (1781–89) by prohibiting the importation of foreign slaves to individual states and lending their support to a proposal by Jefferson to ban slavery in the Northwest Territory.

Benjamin Franklin in Pennsylvania, as well as John Jay and Alexander Hamilton in New York, served as officers in their respective state antislavery societies. The prestige they lent to these organizations ultimately contributed to the gradual abolition of slavery in each of the Northern states.

George Washington, freed a sizeable body of enslaved labourers.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/1269536/The-Founding-Fathers-and-Slavery

Also, Thomas Jefferson wrote:

He [King George III] has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating and carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. . . . Determined to keep open a market where men should be bought and sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce.

John Quincy Adams wrote:

The inconsistency of the institution of domestic slavery with the principles of the Declaration of Independence was seen and lamented by all the southern patriots of the Revolution; by no one with deeper and more unalterable conviction than by the author of the Declaration himself [Jefferson]. No charge of insincerity or hypocrisy can be fairly laid to their charge. Never from their lips was heard one syllable of attempt to justify the institution of slavery. They universally considered it as a reproach fastened upon them by the unnatural step-mother country [Great Britain] and they saw that before the principles of the Declaration of Independence, slavery, in common with every other mode of oppression, was destined sooner or later to be banished from the earth. Such was the undoubting conviction of Jefferson to his dying day.

And then there's all this:

[N]ever in my life did I own a slave. ¹⁰ John Adams, Signer of the Declaration, one of only two signers of the Bill of Rights, U. S. President

But to the eye of reason, what can be more clear than that all men have an equal right to happiness? Nature made no other distinction than that of higher or lower degrees of power of mind and body. . . . Were the talents and virtues which Heaven has bestowed on men given merely to make them more obedient drudges? . . . No! In the judgment of heaven there is no other superiority among men than a superiority of wisdom and virtue. ¹¹ Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration, “Father of the American Revolution”

[W]hy keep alive the question of slavery? It is admitted by all to be a great evil. ¹² Charles Carroll, Signer of the Declaration

As Congress is now to legislate for our extensive territory lately acquired, I pray to Heaven that they may build up the system of the government on the broad, strong, and sound principles of freedom. Curse not the inhabitants of those regions, and of the United States in general, with a permission to introduce bondage [slavery].¹³ John Dickinson, Signer of the Constitution; Governor of Pennsylvania

I am glad to hear that the disposition against keeping negroes grows more general in North America. Several pieces have been lately printed here against the practice, and I hope in time it will be taken into consideration and suppressed by the legislature. ¹⁴ Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Declaration, Signer of the Constitution, President of the Pennsylvania Abolition Society

That mankind are all formed by the same Almighty Being, alike objects of his care, and equally designed for the enjoyment of happiness, the Christian religion teaches us to believe, and the political creed of Americans fully coincides with the position. . . . [We] earnestly entreat your serious attention to the subject of slavery – that you will be pleased to countenance the restoration of liberty to those unhappy men who alone in this land of freedom are degraded into perpetual bondage and who . . . are groaning in servile subjection. ¹⁵ Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Declaration, Signer of the Constitution, President of the Pennsylvania Abolition Society

That men should pray and fight for their own freedom and yet keep others in slavery is certainly acting a very inconsistent, as well as unjust and perhaps impious, part. ¹⁶ John Jay, President of Continental Congress, Original Chief Justice U. S. Supreme Court

The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. . . . And with what execration [curse] should the statesman be loaded, who permitting one half the citizens thus to trample on the rights of the other. . . . And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ¹⁷ Thomas Jefferson

Christianity, by introducing into Europe the truest principles of humanity, universal benevolence, and brotherly love, had happily abolished civil slavery. Let us who profess the same religion practice its precepts . . . by agreeing to this duty. ¹⁸ Richard Henry Lee, President of Continental Congress; Signer of the Declaration

I have seen it observed by a great writer that Christianity, by introducing into Europe the truest principles of humanity, universal benevolence, and brotherly love, had happily abolished civil slavery. Let us, who profess the same religion practice its precepts, and by agreeing to this duty convince the world that we know and practice our truest interests, and that we pay a proper regard to the dictates of justice and humanity! ¹⁹ Richard Henry Lee, Signer of the Declaration, Framer of the Bill of Rights

I hope we shall at last, and if it so please God I hope it may be during my life time, see this cursed thing [slavery] taken out. . . . For my part, whether in a public station or a private capacity, I shall always be prompt to contribute my assistance towards effecting so desirable an event. ²⁰ William Livingston, Signer of the Constitution; Governor of New Jersey

[I]t ought to be considered that national crimes can only be and frequently are punished in this world by national punishments; and that the continuance of the slave-trade, and thus giving it a national sanction and encouragement, ought to be considered as justly exposing us to the displeasure and vengeance of Him who is equally Lord of all and who views with equal eye the poor African slave and his American master. ²¹ Luther Martin, Delegate at Constitution Convention

As much as I value a union of all the States, I would not admit the Southern States into the Union unless they agree to the discontinuance of this disgraceful trade [slavery]. ²² George Mason, Delegate at Constitutional Convention

Honored will that State be in the annals of history which shall first abolish this violation of the rights of mankind. ²³ Joseph Reed, Revolutionary Officer; Governor of Pennsylvania

Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity. . . . It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is an usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men. ²⁴ Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration

The commerce in African slaves has breathed its last in Pennsylvania. I shall send you a copy of our late law respecting that trade as soon as it is published. I am encouraged by the success that has finally attended the exertions of the friends of universal freedom and justice. ²⁵ Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration, Founder of the Pennsylvania Abolition Society, President of the National Abolition Movement

Justice and humanity require it [the end of slavery]–Christianity commands it. Let every benevolent . . . pray for the glorious period when the last slave who fights for freedom shall be restored to the possession of that inestimable right. ²⁶ Noah Webster, Responsible for Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution

Slavery, or an absolute and unlimited power in the master over the life and fortune of the slave, is unauthorized by the common law. . . . The reasons which we sometimes see assigned for the origin and the continuance of slavery appear, when examined to the bottom, to be built upon a false foundation. In the enjoyment of their persons and of their property, the common law protects all. ²⁷ James Wilson, Signer of the Constitution; U. S. Supreme Court Justice

[I]t is certainly unlawful to make inroads upon others . . . and take away their liberty by no better means than superior power. ²⁸ John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=122

My point is that it is important to remember what the Founding Farthers REALLY stood for. The Tea Party pseudo-patriots stand for something radically different from the prinicples of the Founding Fathers, and certain tenets of the modern Republican Party would be repugnant to Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Ronald Reagan.

commonsense, you do realize that site that you are quoting from, is David Barton's site? David Barton, who made up quotes and attributed them to Thomas Jefferson. George Washington did not have his slaves freed until the death of his wife.

You idiots, stop spouting your bull@!$%# and get back on topic! The topic is this insane Norwegian guy!

Ouch!

In an article titled "Unconfirmed Quotations", Barton conceded that he has not located primary sources for eleven alleged quotes from James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and U.S. Supreme Court decisions (hence, the title of the article), but maintained that the quotes were "completely consistent" with the views of the Founders. --Wikipedia

My apologies for posting something without checking it first.

raddave44, as much as I hate to be embarassed, I hate even more to be wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

Well, I guess we now know for certain that he feels ZERO remorse for what he did!

What would make a lot of sense, to me anyway, given that he stated that being declared insane would be a fate worse than death, that he be declared insane and remanded to the custody of a government mental institution for the rest of his life. What I envision... that the government select an empty prison cell, hang a sign over the door identifying it as a mental ward, and then assign him to that cell for the next 50 years or so.

Just a thought.

@commonsense....,

I love you for what you posted, checking or not... Even thought the facts may not be correct, the intent of their words were.

There was a small contingent of the founders, who unlike Chris-749391, did not "doctor" the Constitution, but did fight to have it left for further discussion down the road, as it was a major sticking point with some southern colonies, NOT the majority (...darn early example of the "Southern Strategy", played out here..). Big difference there Chris-749391...

They did not hate the idea of democracy as Chris-749391 points out either. They all read Voltaire and his contemporaries and the idea was to "fuse" Voltaire's philosophy and a Greek-style Democracy, where the people were represented. To improve Early Greece's failures by using Voltaires philosophy..... Hate is a very bad/negative way to describe the sentiment of the founders. Although there is nothing in writing to verify this either, most historians (on either side of the aisle) do agree on this point. The earliest examples being the Federalist Papers.

PS. There is some good reading here as well, on the topic of our current healthcare debate....

http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So is a lot."
― Albert Einstein

I'm Just Sayin'...

He didn't confess to being guilty, however, so a whole trial must take place. It's now a matter of being insane v. guilty

This is what nationalism and statism do to people...it turns them into cheeleaders for sociopathy by proxy, or like this racist weirdo makes them into sociopaths directly.

The more nationalist (not to be confused with patriotic) you are, the more likely you are a racist.

Statism and nationalism are mental disorders.

The state (legalized mafia) taxes (legalized extortion) on the threat of prison (legalized kidnapping, assuming you haven't coerced anyone), and if you resist that imprisonment a cop (legalized thug-for hire and by proxy) will shoot (legalized murder, assuming you didn't harm or defraud anyone) you.

If you cheerlead for this, you have become a sociopath by proxy. You're then half way to being a sociopath yourself. Take a good hard look at your ideologies if this is the case.

I disagree re: "death sounds reasonable;" human rights are inalienable, and the right to life is a human right.

What Brevik did is utterly reprehensible and should disgust any reasonable individual, but if society should become so visceral as to collectively endorse a gross violation of human rights like capital punishment, than human rights degenerate into nothing more than an abstract idea, and sooner or later, under the pretense of order and justice, authority finds itself enabled to violate any and every human right unfettered, from the right to life to freedom of thought. Human rights have to be defended even when not convenient.

I'm sure you'll be disappointed to hear that as a civilized society, Norway doesn't have a death penalty.

It is never "reasonable" to plot another person's death. In times of war, in self-defense, in other dire circumstances, it may be justifiable. But "reasonable", never.

White nations???? are you kidding me plz take a long hard look at history if anything its been thru multiculturalism that we have come this far, other wise we would still live in the age of slavery, and what about the native Americans who the Europeans came and took over their lands killed their people and forced into their religions??? we are all citizens of the world!!! maybe if we all started thinking like this the world would be a better place. And in my opinion this guy should be fried in the chair he doesn't deserve the air hes breathing he has admitted to killing over 70 people including children, why should their tax $$$ be used to keep this crazy man alive hes a waste on society!

While he risks being kept behind bars for the rest of his life, the high school dropout has said being labeled insane would be a "fate worse than death."

Personally, I don't see how someone who could plan and carry out such an operation could be found legally insane.

I hope he's judged insane though. I hope he never sees the world outside a mental institution for the rest of his miserable life.

The reason nations form in the first place is that people everywhere tend to prefer to live, work and marry in a society of their own kind. It is the natural order. There is nothing wrong with it.

Multiculturalism is a mental disorder and an agent of destruction.

Today every country once considered to be a "white" nation is being massively multiculturalized by alien people and cultures from the third world, mostly against the will of the people.

Wow. You are one scary dude.

"Alien people"? Are you aware there is no country on Earth where everyone is the same? Cloning is science fiction.

We are all descended from Africans.

Multiculturalism makes every nation a richer, better place.

Stay in your house and you won't have to bother with people who are not exactly like you.

I say let the POS go......then maybe one of the parents will do us all a favor and eliminate him. Hopefully they will make it a slow process. I would.

machinehead said:

The reason nations form in the first place is that people everywhere tend to prefer to live, work and marry in a society of their own kind.

The reason nations formed in the first place was because the ruling body of a specific people needed to draw a line in the sand somewhere to indicate where their influence stopped and another ruling body of another nation started. The rise and fall of the various ruling bodies have influenced the borders of nations (examples being the Roman Empire and the fall of Communism which resulted in many nations being birthed out of the former USSR.)

Today every country once considered to be a "white" nation is being massively multiculturalized by alien people and cultures from the third world, mostly against the will of the people.

In the late 1400's a country considered to be the Maya and Aztec Nation was massively multiculturalized by alien whites from Spain, mostly against the will of the native Mesoamerican people.

In the late 1400's a country considered to the the Native Americans was massively multiculturalized by alien whites from the empire of Great Britain, mostly against the will of the Native Americans, who fought against the invaders and lost.

In the mid 1600's a country called South Africa was massively multiculturalized by alien whites from all over Europe, mostly against the will of the South Africans which resulted in the apartheid conflicts that lasted until the mid 1990's.

Evidently, the goal of all this force and subversion is to merge nations into a global government where the individual has no power, no voice and no freedom, and the government class holds all the power, the wealth and the privelege.

Due to advances in technology we are all global citizens, each nation with a separate ruling body, different views, traditions, practices, and culture, but we're all human and we're all people of Earth. If aliens from outer space came down tomorrow and started attacking the US first, you think every nation in the world isn't going to mobilize against this threat? We are all people of planet Earth and even if an individual may think we deserve to be taken over by aliens, the greater majority of people on this earth will mobilize to fight those aliens and get them off our planet. If that ever happens there won't be any 'You're this color and I'm that color so I'm not helping you' or 'You believe in this God and I believe in that God so I'm not going to help you.'

"White nations"? "Alien people"?

I cannot believe the astounding amount of ignorance and stupidity a person would have to possess to even have such a point of view.

So, he doesn't want muslims or multiculturalism, he wants a pure country without any foreigners or foreign influence. He's a republican.

He's a Nazi, it's exactly what Hitler wanted for all of Europe. If you don't think and do the same as him or them, you were sent to the camps and killed. This guy does need to be put to death, he says he will do it again if he gets the change. I won't get any rehabilitation in any place, he'll always be like he is now. He didn't give any of those children to right to say if they agreed with him or not. He didn't ask anyone in the government binding the rights he thinks he should be allowed now. He gave up his right to be treated as a human being when he turned into a killing animal like he is now....."I would have done it again." is what he said and will. Does that sound anything like a human to anyone?

Watch people like MAchine(skin)head...bastards like him are the ones who turn out to be like that Norway monster.

All this BS about immigrants destroying western culture is completely worthless and a joke (considering the western culture is made up of nothing but immigrant cultures anyways), when up to a few decades ago the west itself colonized continents at a time, divided them up among themselves as they pleased and enslaved the entire people, erasing entire cultures and races of the face of the planet. So STFU white people with the " threat to western culture" nonsense. Over three hundred years of colonizing and abusing the Asian sub continent (currently India, Pakistan and Bangladesh), I am surprised that the British/west didn't pickup from the Eastern cultures the concept of Karma. Your forefathers for hundreds of years had been abusing nay raping the East, South and even non whites in the west without any consequences, what did you think there wouldn't be any consequences ever? Many if not all of the former colonies are suffering from the consequences of colonization and unfair land allocations to nations and tribes.

What these neo nazis really mean when they say that immigration is a "threat to western culture" is the decline of white dominance in the west. There is no threat to western culture (if their exists such a thing), stronger cultures always stamp out the weak ones.

Oh no, MachineHead, we wouldn't want to sound racist while we lament the loss of all-white skin color in our nation...

I'm all for immigration... most people in this country only have to look back a few generations to find an immigrant in their own family (my great grandfather came from Germany in 1908).

I'm against people coming to the country illegally and exploiting the benefits of our society while not doing their part to contribute through taxes. I don't see how that makes me a racist...

JuveFish, Amanda-2017567, kaybeetoys, Tina-293371, MrIndia, Toasty McGrath

After thinking about your comments, I'm sure you're all right. We need to change this country from the white country that everyone wants to come to for opportunity and freedom, into a multiracial, multicultural socialist state where the government redistributes wealth according to the political class' wishes. At last - justice!

Yes! I see clearly now how much richer, how much better it will be when we model the rest of the country after Harlem, East St. Louis, Detroit, New Orleans and South Central L.A.

We folks in the Midwest, who grew up in quiet towns where few people ever locked their doors never knew of all the wonderful richness we were missing.

We were too stupid and closed minded to bring the violence, graffiti, gang activity, welfare breeders, drug dealers into our midst.

We were too narrow minded to see the obvious benefits of multiculturalism.

We didn't have the blessing of seeing our culture, our people and our heritage scorned, mocked, and forcefully replaced by the government who claimed to represent us.

Thanks to all of you who work tirelessly to force your views of morality and fairness onto the rest of the people, we will soon have this ideal social utopia.

The Chinese will rule the world.

direction needed

I'm all for immigration... most people in this country only have to look back a few generations to find an immigrant in their own family (my great grandfather came from Germany in 1908).

I'm against people coming to the country illegally and exploiting the benefits of our society while not doing their part to contribute through taxes. I don't see how that makes me a racist..

Since our immigration laws were passed to exclude certain groups that people found "undesirable" I would say that, by supporting those laws, it makes you a xenophobe, not a racist. And, since you buy the line that "teh illegals" are exploiting out benefits and not paying taxes. It shows that you are uninformed. Since most illegal immigrants do pay their taxes and do not enjoy the benefits of this country.

@timetravler100 your argument is of no value because little villages in the midwest (like the one you come from) or anywhere in the world share the same qualities, immigration has no impact on that. The areas you point out i.e. inner cities and suburban areas always have had a high crime rate despite who emigrates to these places from where ever. It was the same when you grandparents or great ... grandparents immigrated here from western Europe I presume, there were Italian, Irish and German mobs in cities and suburbs since these places were founded (a somewhat accurate example would be the movie gangs of new york). Urban and Sub urban places have been like the way they are today since time immemorial, Rome, Egypt, Sodom & Gomorra, Babylon etc all had high crime, corruption and poverty. America isn't unique and immigration isn't the culprit. So please stop making a non race issue in to a race issue.

Do I think he's insane, absolutely but I also believe he was aware of what he was doing and of the outcome of his act. He knew what he was doing and has no regrets over his murders. If Norway has no death penalty then he needs to be restrained in a mental facility for the rest of his life. Given his statements he will do it again.

people everywhere tend to prefer to live, work and marry in a society of their own kind.

Take me, for instance. I want to live in the kind of society envisioned by the Founding Fathers, who believed that ALL men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights.

What I like about machinehead, is that he doesn't try to hide his prejudice. He is honest about it.

Lamar Smith, Jan Brewer, and so many others who take their cues from dyed-in-the-wool Nazis when it comes to immigration and other issues hold the same opinions, but are less honest about it. That is why I find it impossible to respect them.

But machinehead, I can respect, even though we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue.

It is never "reasonable" to plot another person's death.

I think when a person poses a clear danger to society, the only other reasonable option is true life imprisonment, but are we going to get either in this case? Probably not.

I know Norway doesn't have the death penalty, I am just being wishful.

And no, I will not apologize for wanting to see this monster dead.

inner cities and suburban areas always have had a high crime rate despite who emigrates to these places

Funny thing. Native born US citizens are five times more likely to commit a violent crime than immigrants, and unauthorized immigrants are the most law-abiding demographic group in America. (see "The Myth of Immigrant Criminality and the Assimilation Paradox" by Rumbaut and Ewing)

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/special-reports/myth-immigrant-criminality-and-paradox-assimilation

We need to change this country from the white country that everyone wants to come to for opportunity and freedom, into a multiracial, multicultural socialist state where the government redistributes wealth according to the political class' wishes. (sarcastic)

Opportunity and freedom for all, or just for 'white' people? The AMERICAN way is opportunity and freedom for ALL. Your bigoted 'opinion' that all 'non-whites' want something haded to them for nothing is just that: your own, sick, twisted, untrue, bigoted opinion.

Beyond that, it sounds like you are scared of not being able to compete, and therefore you are looking for rights based on inheritance alone. How hypocritical is that? Whatever happened to the "freedom and opportunity" that my ancestors built into this country? And why should I let a diseased, 'whites-only' philosophy destroy the meritocracy that we once enjoyed?

Are you broken up about seeing this Breivik idiot on trial? His philosophy sounds a lot like yours.

If it were up to me, Breivik would rot in a jail cell for the rest of his life with no access to the public, and he could live out his diseased fantasies inside his own feeble mind.

All you people in the arguments about all white nations vs a nation of immigrants. Isn't the article about Norway?

I consider myself a moral person who is against the death penalty, and i believe he doesn't deserve death. I also consider myself a moral person who is against cruel punishment and torture. I believe he deserves to be tortured because death is just too easy for a person who can't see the wrong he's done.

SPARTAN-501, perhaps in the US, but in Norway most people does not want the death penalty. There were a lot of emotions and spontaneous reactions after July 22'nd, and a lot of my friends too were calling for the death penalty the few days after the events. When things calmed down again they went back to their first position. We do not change because something terrible has happened. To react to a tragedy with silly new laws that contradict values we've held for a long time is the worst possible solution. Our prime minister said after the events that the best way to combat those who wish to see our democracy and freedom be brought down is with more democracy and more openess. Not less.

Kind of like the patriot act. That is something we never want to see happen here in Norway. As Benjamin Franklin said: He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.

MJOLNIR replica? So does that mean you would like to put on a Spartan's suit of armor and beat him untill he dies? At least be dignified and behead him with the plasma sword or a firing squad with needlers... oh, wait, they could leave a mess.

@Augure666: I was talking about Thor's hammer Mjolnir, not MJOLNIR armor. But if you want him to die by a Halo weapon, look no further than the Gravity Hammer--a fitting end for a brute.

@Suzpz: how does executing a terrorist after a fair trial take away liberty for ordinary people? This is nothing like the horrible Patriot Act. Only the criminal is affected.

SPARTAN-501

Unless they change the law for this bastard, the death penalty will not be available for selection,

He needs to move to Florida if he wants to wipe out multiculturalism..... then he could get support from Rush and Hannity and they would find some way to claim he was standing his ground as he pursued the young men and then executed them in self defense

Mr Right now i think u got a point and i would second that as well.....America take a good look...this is the kind of crazy crap Rush .Hannity and rest of the crazy people always talking about...

Excellent comment, Suzpz.

Your deeply held values should not be changed by this tragedy. The death penalty is barbaric. Many U.S. states are quietly doing away with it.

Suzpz,

It is good to hear that your country didn't let this horrific event undermine the very foundation of your society.

I wish we would have stuck to our original plan to go after Bin Laden in the aftermath of 9/11. Instead we expanded our response in the name of "security" and a "War on terrorism". An unjustified war in Iraq and a lingering conflict in Afghanistan later along with many new laws that limit our freedom and threaten to destroy the very foundation upon which our country was founded, we are still at war with "terrorism".

The terrorism that occurred on 9/11 was due to lapses in vigilance that should have been investigated and should have resulted in criminal charges against those responsible for ignoring the evidence of an impending attack. Instead we are at war with "terrorism". Terror is a short term reaction to something scary. By definition one cannot battle terror or terrorism, it is impossible to "win" a war against a fundamental and visceral response to a threat. If we start looking around the globe there are threats everywhere, pretty soon we see threats in innocuous things and our "response" is to pass ever more restrictive laws or deploy more weapons and troops. Meanwhile patriots march and train in more than a thousand civilian militias and declare they are doing this to protect us from our government. This is a country gone mad and we are letting the events of 9/11 destroy us, just what those filthy B*st*rds who flew the planes that day wanted.

We are fighting a war on terror and losing our freedom, we are even "blessed" with political leaders who are attempting to repeal legislation related to human rights, safety, public health, education, pollution, that will result in a lower standard of living for the majority of our citizens. They justify their actions as being in the best interest of a small minority who, we are told, will rescue us "lesser" citizens or they claim they are motivated by morality and then stand on their "religion" with no concern for people who don't share their religious views. A moral politician, may as well be a Mullah!

This is America, world leaders. Leaders who once moved in positive ways. A country that continuously worked toward a brighter future for all. I guess now we are so afraid of the future that we want to run and hide in the past. Leadership in the wrong direction! That is what I would describe what we have here today.

Too bad we couldn't see past the violence waged against us. In war there are winners and losers. I wish we would wake up, look in the mirror, and decide whether the country we are looking at today looks like a country heading for victory or defeat. Victory over an instinctive reaction to fear is impossible, the war on terror is perpetual, we cannot afford the fearful track we tread. We must regain our courage and begin to be vigilant without grandstanding on the world stage every time we find a threat. Once upon on time that is how it was done. Back when America lead the world down a positive path toward a brighter future.

We have become so high strung that if another country were to sneak up behind us and snap their fingers, we would turn around, blow their heads off, then blame them for our response! The world is a scary place, nasty things can and do happen, we need to get it in perspective again. We were knocked on our @sses that horrific day, time to get up, dust off, and move forward again. Never forget! Never let our guard down. Do the right thing, do the brave thing, honor all who died protecting this country by keeping this country whole, healthy, and a beacon of freedom and hope the rest of the world wants to emulate. That is the best way to win the war on terror, encourage courage, understanding, tolerance, forgiveness...educate, communicate, rise above the threat and the threat is diminished and perhaps even defeated.

"July's massacre in a pre-pepared statement" ... pre-prepared typo :) Love, htucke2, QA

sighber - Great comment! I agree with everything you said. Thank you!

You don't need to change your death penalty laws. However when a man goes on a 70 person shooting spree with automatic weapons. He should of never left the scene alive.

Even CNN is doing all they can to avoid being labeled a left wing news source.

I don't mind any party or the ideas they stand for. What I mind is the lunatics on both side that give each party a bad name. Newsvine unfortunately is full of lunatics that can't handle opposing points of view.

... time to get up, dust off, and move forward again. Never forget! Never let our guard down. Do the right thing, do the brave thing, honor all who died protecting this country by keeping this country whole, healthy, and a beacon of freedom and hope the rest of the world wants to emulate. That is the best way to win the war on terror, encourage courage, understanding, tolerance, forgiveness...educate, communicate, rise above the threat and the threat is diminished and perhaps even defeated.

Beautifully expressed, sighber!

High time for America to quit whining and cowering in fear, stuffing ourselves full of junk food and easy answers, destroying our country with apathy and division.

Are we still The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, or not?

mePhDwee- the name calling and vulgar references really don't help your credibility on any site. Are you a troll trying to stir things up? Hitting all the GOP talking points to stir up a riot and get people to fight amongst themselves and ignore the original story here? Poof!

mePhDwee

You know what's good about libtards? They are willing victims. And they are always willing to make up facts. Rush Limbaugh and Hannity preach this? I regularly listen to both and I never heard them "preach" this type of violence. I never heard them condone this action. I never heard them support this animal. Funny how all the drones on this page who worship at the MSNBC ball sack forget FOX is the leading cable news channel. The reason the MAJORITY of the country dismisses the left is because of stupid statements that have no factual base. Doesn't the left get tired of being the ass?

No one was saying that Limpballs or Shamitty preach the violence. However, they do preach the idea that multiculturalism is evil and the death to this country. Saying FOX is the leading cable news channel is like saying that a batter has the highest batting average in "A" Ball, it ain't the big leagues.

Suzpz, great comment.

peedeeweewee? Rush Limbaugh is a drug-addicted college dropout. your claim that he doesn't preach hatred and intolerance would laughable if it weren't so tragically sad for the people who are his targets (gays, Muslims, immigrants, women ('hot' Republican politicians excepted), teachers, Latinos, African Americans, and on and on and on and on).

OF COURSE he's an insane megalomaniac, actually thinking he's SO GREAT??? And he's so worried about Norway being less Norwegian in the future, so what does he do? Kill Norwegian kids -- such flawed mentality. I just wish somebody could end him, otherwise the poor parents of those murdered kids will have to listen to him spew his twisted crap for the next 5 days. I think I'd go crazy if it were me.

Why not? If this is what he fears most, give it to him.

Actually, I have been noticing errors on the Fox News site reports as well as on NPR news reports. Almost daily at that. Poor editing is rampant on the news sites. I tend to find more errors if the article is written by someone that doesn't have English as a first language. It is no big deal just distracting.

couldn't agree more!!! I'm on the same page as you my friend, why should he have human rights when he didn't consider the rights of those he killed.. and keeping him alive would be disrespectful towards the families of those he killed since their taxes would probably pay for his ass to sit and rot in jail.

Norway doesn't need to change its values, just add a new designation to the law, that allows for such a penalty in extreme cases like this.

How about we let Norweigans decide what Noeway needs to to?

I fail to follow that logic. If Norway doesn't re-institute legalized killing by the State, that will make them more like the Nazi Party? You missed a few steps in describing that process.

God finds the death penalty acceptable

Are you kidding? "God" LOVES the death penalty. God loves for his "children" to slaughter each other. That's what God is all about.

Well, that and raping women and children.

patter123-Try actually reading and studying the Bible, rather than spouting off about what you know nothing.

You should take your own advice Lou. Bible is filled with examples of God killing kids. Remember the plauges of Egypt where God murdered the first born son in every household? Remember when God sent two bears to maul dozens of children to death because a few of them teased a bald man? Remember when God ordered all the Cannanites be slaughtered? Remember there were children in the towns of Jericho. Patter123 is completely correct. The only way to say he isn't is to ignore half the bible.

Brickwall: "Even God finds the death penalty acceptable."

WHAT???? How do you know what God finds "acceptable?"

In fact, last time I checked, one of "God's" 10 commandments states: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL." Period. No exceptions for war. No exceptions for the death penalty. No exceptions of ANY kind are noted. Simply THOU SHALT NOT KILL. Period.

And think about this: Jesus was killed by the death penalty.

Things that make you go, "hmmmmm..."

And yes, I would ignore half the bible: the Old Testament. And concentrate on the New Testament. (and even that I would consider the source and make sure of the translation)...

Just my own humble opinion.

seriously, don't waste the tax money, a bullet is cheap.

Scott said:

You give up your rights that are automatically afforded you when you break the laws, and even then, you have due process of law, even after you commit a senseless crime like this guy did.

Er. There are certain cases in the US where this does not apply. The only rights you have are those the government lets you have, and if they decide to take them away, there's no due process.

I have firsthand knowledge with that experience.

Amanda--

The only rights you have are those the government lets you have, and if they decide to take them away, there's no due process.

We used to have a Constitution, but Bush decided it was "Just a goddam piece of paper," and Obama used it to wipe his butt.

Destroying the Constitution is the one thing both parties agree on.

So, you justify Bush's actions because we are in an "extraordinary" time? You are delusional to believe the Patriot Act has stopped any terrorist attack. And, don't forget that it was Bush who initially bailed out the auto industry, and got "government" into it. And, there is no expansion of the commerce clause.

Liberals, selling the rope for their enemies to hang them with or something like that.

Agreed. The death penalty would be too good for this sick bastard. Let him rot in a decrepit concrete cell for the rest of his life.

I find myself becoming more and more opposed to the death penalty because I view it as an easy out.

Desperate toll.

Well both claimed "self-defense." If Breivik had been in Florida, the DA would have to prove that it wasn't self-defense.

Multiculturalism is a sadly often a one way street. If you're German, French, or Swedish, you're expected to be happy with the fact that your countries are absorbing large numbers of people from other cultures who come, not to integrate, but to set up parallel cultures in the host countries, thus making the natives feel like strangers in their own cities. At the same time, the people who push multiculturalism to the extreme are also the ones complaining about the negative effects that American and European cultures are having on indigenous cultures around the world. You can't have it both ways. I have no problem with people moving over the face of the earth, but cultures that are tied to the place that you move to need to be respected. If you are Dutch and you move to Egypt, ADAPT. If you are Egyptian and you move to Netherlands, ADAPT. Keep your traditions and language, yes, but respect the local culture and integrate as well. This is what multiculturalism really is. Multiculturalism does NOT equal the setting up of permanent, parallel societies in host countries. In this sense, multiculturalism in Europe has failed.

To you Anti-Multicultural freaks. The United States of America was founded, actually, upon multicultural principals. English, German, Irish, French, Spanish, Dutch, Russian, etc. all had a place in the founding of this Nation. More to the point, in preserving this Nation. Ever read the plaque from the days of Ellis Island? Ever study American History? Ever ponder why it took so long for this Nation to grant Rights to everyone? The answer is quite simple for the last question -- that answer was strictly from the anti-side of Human Rights.

To be extremely candid, this Nation is now poised to become a Mono-Religious Nation, and, perhaps, an Anti-Cultural Nation where Rights depends upon the favor of a single Party dedicated to removal of Rights to certain sections of the population. Fiction? Possibly. Fact, most certainly if we are not vigil in our selection of Leaders. Think about it, lest we become another Germany as in the 30's and to the mid-40's.

Nikolaus, I completely agree with you. I am Hispanic born and raised and now live in the US and am an American citizen. I have made sure to learn English to the best of my abilities, have adopted and observed every single American tradition and try to be informed and involved with my country. This doesn't mean I have forgotten my roots, I still care and stay informed about my birth country, I still make some of the traditional dishes for my children and celebrate a few traditions that are not as common here. For example as a kid we celebrated Three Kings Day with presents. That day is not really that big here but I do celebrate it in our house...things like that. I cringe every time I see Hispanics in this country isolate themselves in their little communities, refusing to learn the language or the culture and furthermore, feeling entitled and demanding for things to be in Spanish (and getting their way!...sigh). It is of course not all but those are the ones that make the most noise so those are the people that everyone know the most about. I have never felt discriminated against or treated badly in this country even in the "whitest" of areas. People isolate themselves and have only their own selves to blame for any discrimination.

SCGuardian said;

To be extremely candid, this Nation is now poised to become a Mono-Religious Nation, and, perhaps, an Anti-Cultural Nation where Rights depends upon the favor of a single Party dedicated to removal of Rights to certain sections of the population. Fiction? Possibly. Fact, most certainly if we are not vigil in our selection of Leaders. Think about it, lest we become another Germany as in the 30's and to the mid-40's.

If you look at what has been happening in our country since 9/11, we're heading down the same path Germany went down in the late 30's. Because a few individuals of a particular faith committed a terrorist act, suddenly all practitioners of that faith are vilified and demonized by the general public. Homeland Security watches mosques and other places of prayer for these believers of different faith. Recent passage of bills like the NDAA for FY2012 with its clause that says any non-USC (US Citizen) suspected of terrorism can be detained by our military until the War on Terror is over strips a basic right to liberty from those accused. Then you pair it with legislation like the upcoming Enemy Expatriation Act, which will give the government the right to strip citizenship from anyone who could potentially pose a threat to the US or its allies' interests, you can see how easy it is to go from protection to oppression.

Think about it; the SS in Nazi Germany were originally called 'Saal-Schutz'--Home Protection. We now have Homeland Security.

Those who had no papers or who the government arbitrarily decided 'didn't belong' with the rest of the population were shipped to German deportation camps. Now in America, those with no documents (I was one; undocumented/stateless because I was abandoned as an infant at an international orphanage with no birth certificate or other paperwork, and USCIS lost my adoption paper 18 years after I was adopted) and shipped me off to an American deportation camp.

Papers please + no papers=life in deportation. Since there was nowhere to deport me because I was undocumented/stateless, I was told I would spend the rest of my life in deportation unless I could provide the document they wanted (I was never told I was adopted before Dad and Mom passed away in a car accident.)

I did nothing illegal; it wasn't illegal for Dad and Mom not to tell me I was adopted; it wasn't illegal for USCIS to lose my adoption paper. And yet I was stripped of citizenship, civil, and human rights and held in deportation for two years while I tried to find the document that proved I was adopted.

It wasn't illegal for ICE to put me on a plane in the middle of the night and ship me to a deportation camp halfway across the country. It wasn't illegal for the camp to provide food that had maggots init. It wasn't illegal for them to assign me underwear that still had blood from another woman's period crusted in it. It wasn't illegal for the guards to get their rocks off watching us use the bathroom. It wasn't even illegal for a male guard to perform strip searches and body cavity searches on female detainees. And it wasn't illegal for the guards to pull us out and put a gun to our head and pull the trigger--on an empty gun.

How different are we really from Nazi Germany? Maybe we should open our eyes and take a good long look at where our own country is heading.

Comment author avatarNikolaus20

Multiculturalism is a sadly often a one way street. If you're German, French, or Swedish, you're expected to be happy with the fact that your countries are absorbing large numbers of people from other cultures who come, not to integrate, but to set up parallel cultures in the host countries, thus making the natives feel like strangers in their own cities. At the same time, the people who push multiculturalism to the extreme are also the ones complaining about the negative effects that American and European cultures are having on indigenous cultures around the world. You can't have it both ways. I have no problem with people moving over the face of the earth, but cultures that are tied to the place that you move to need to be respected. If you are Dutch and you move to Egypt, ADAPT. If you are Egyptian and you move to Netherlands, ADAPT. Keep your traditions and language, yes, but respect the local culture and integrate as well. This is what multiculturalism really is. Multiculturalism does NOT equal the setting up of permanent, parallel societies in host countries. In this sense, multiculturalism in Europe has failed.

I do believe that in Europe, it is the non acceptance of those immigrants into the culture that is the reason for them setting up "parallel cultures." And, I do know in the Netherlands, it is required by law that anyone immigrating to that country must learn the language. Stop telling people to "assimilate" then not accepting them, and this "multiculturalism" thing might work.

But why ARE there so many people immigrating into these small countries that have had their own culture and religion for centuries (we are talking about Europe, right?). Does it happen in reverse and if so how are they treated in, say, middle eastern countries? Killed. For centuries in the world, millenium, to get this kind of mass (what's the opposite of exodus) armies would have to be involved. And for you people who keep saying Hitler and Nazis, Islam are the new nazis. You think jihad is only being fought on one level? Do you not think middle easterners are smart enough to be able to fight it on many levels. Mass immigration is another way to world domination!

But they don't have a soft spot for people who shine a light on their kookiness.

Sorry meant to post it below.

Well that won't happen because liberals have a soft spot for animals. Two-legged and four-legged ones.

Well that won't happen because liberals...

I'd like to see you eaten alive by fire ants.

How's THAT for liberal, you dumb snot?

But they don't have a soft spot for people who shine a light on their kookiness or people who have common sense.

Well that won't happen because liberals have a soft spot for animals. Two-legged and four-legged ones.

If it wasn't for the liberal's soft spot for two-legged animals they wouldn't put up with the GOP's shenanigans.

Ata boy! Always take a dig at the Islamians no matter what the article is about like a good teabagger should.

I don't know where Antiochus falls on the political spectrum, but he's been trolling both liberals and conservatives in these comments (see the next thread).

Ah liberals, do they ever make sense?

Ah, neo-cons, do they ever make sense?

That is all you got from reading his speeches? A feeling of embarassment? No sense of shock, bewilderment, disgust, etc.? Talk about desensitized.

Narcissism is a cover up. They are the weakest among us. A narcissist can't live without feeding off anothers energy. Cut the vein to their food source ..i agree with someone's post above.. killing him would be less torture for this man..remaining in a cell for 23 hours a day...is total torture.

But most of them believe it will help them.