I looked over the Geneva Convention documents mimi, as well as the signatures. My name wasn't to be found, more importantly neither were the names of any of my enemies! Only a fool really believes that war can be survived by following any rules save one, I WILL SURVIVE! Those who tried to play their childrens games came home in a bag!

mimi look in the Geneva Convention for suicide bombers. I wonder if that is allowed. I bet not.

Here you go mimi jacques. Please tell me which of these Geneva Conventions cover the treatment of the dead.

Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Convention (II) for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977

International Humanitarian Law - Treaties & Documents

Protocol additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Adoption of an Additional Distinctive Emblem (Protocol III), 8 December 2005

Man has been posing with his trophys since the first homo erectus bashed out his neighbors brains over food or a mate....its just nature....you who think that it is atrocious, barbaric, or whatever, would probably be surprised at yourselves if you put in that same scenario....If you haven't been there done that, then you have no opinion worth listening too....

Pats617 - How dare you call the men and woman wearing a uniform and protecting our freedoms "18ish year old punks". You are beyond ignorant. Regardless of whether or not, them taking pictures of the dead enemy is right or wrong. What you should do is read the "Geneva Convention" take the oath and go over there and fight the enemy, and teach your brothers and sisters that you are fighting side by side with right from wrong, and tell them why. YOU ARE PATHETIC!

I've seen videos of Taliban "fighters" for want of a better word, cut off the head of a U.S. citizen that they had taken captive. He was unarmed, bound and out numbered. This was put on the internet by the enemy, and yet when one of them kills themselves it's supposed to be offensive to take photographs of the idiot. Come on!!!! Be suportive of the allied troops. After all you don't have to look at the pictures unless you want too.

Joe Glenn, how about this...we post the pictures of all the POS that blow themselves up and bury the parts with some bacon fat from the Mess Hall. Take lots of photos so that the next dumbass the wants to blow himself up for what ever reason, will know what he will look like and what will happen to him.

Perhaps we have it wrong? Being PC is not working so well, how about we take the gloves off?

Pats617- You said it all!!!!! Perfectly explained.

Another thing about these photos is when they are published in newspapers for all to see, they just create more drama, more retaliation, more killing, and more mayhem.

Good thing these rules aren't retroactive. Otherwise, a lot of WWII heroes would be in a heap of trouble.

When bad behavior such as fraud, corruption, lying, etc come from the top it is difficult to expect the lower ranks to behave appropriately. Start telling the American people the real reason we have invaded these countries. It is all about pipelines and natural resources. STOP LYING!!!

MOS, you have the wrong idea about this mission. It ain't about bringing the population to their knees. That would be doable even if we took ears and scalps if we were willing to pay the price, the United States has the biggest military in the world.

This fight is not that fight so a little discretion is advisable. Let's not forget to learn from our mistakes in Abu Graib when we talk big about kicking tail and taking names.

RetiredNavy07- I don't know where you're from, but the ex soldiers I've encountered on a daily basis (at bars, grocery shopping, movie theatres, the gym, etc etc) were nothing more than a bunch of ARROGANT punks. They think just because they served in a war zone, that they can come back home and the rules and laws don't apply to them. Right after the war, around my area of greater Boston, there were always incidents of soldiers on leave getting into bar fights, wrapping their cars around trees after a long night at the bar, domestic violence, aggravated assaults, and even home invasions. And the effed up thing about all that was people would just shrug it off " oh they must just have PTSD or something. Its not their fault" Give me a break. A true soldier with high morals and integrity should be humble, not a macho arrogant "get outta my way" attitude.

Blake, these photos don't do a damn thing to make more POS that wants to attack us. If anything they make them think twice about attacking us. "Hmmm? Abdul, you want me to plant an IED tonight? Well the price is now 40 dollars instead of 20." "But Achmed, that will mean that I can only afford one IED."

WE NEED to start showing the POS in the Middle East what happens to them when they go on Jihad. I say we fight the war or get out and start learning to pray 5 times a day.

We did that in Vietnam. Eight months of Search and Destroy tends to desensitize you.

Black Lions 1/28th Inf

69-70

What is the matter Patsy, some GI blow you off for one of your cute girl friends?

I mean Greater Boston is not known for having alot of non drinking and polite people.

MOSinEUR- I must agree with you. Yup, its "icky", its also the REAL WORLD in the lives of these soldiers. Trophy? Go ahead. I think the reprimand belongs to the buffoons that want to embarass and humiliate and/or gain some vicarious attentions for themselves at the expense of our soldiers.

Look up that boob photographer that just won some big prize for a shot of a screaming 12 year old girl standing among the blown up bodies of children- read the story. A direct quote attributed to him was, "they were saying "help, help, help," but I couldn't help them because I was filming, taking pictures." So THIS guy wins noteriety and a big prize for ignoring the pleas of the injured and dying? Got that picture though!

And in case you all are blithely unaware- these trophy shots have been going on in ALL countries and wars as long as there has been personal cameras whether it be the old box Brownies or the more recent Digitals. I have personally seen photo albums of (then) soldiers from Viet Nam, Korea, WW2... As long as they don't bring home body parts (which I've also seen and DO have an issue with) I DON'T CARE.

John Glen, I for one have had enough of the gloves on approach to war. I say we go in and make peace with any survivors. This taking 10 or 20 years to fight a police action is not the way to go, and screw what the rest of the world thinks. We tend to listen to those that cry and not those that agree with me. Those type of people walked into gas chambers because they failed to fight from the beginning.

Abu Grabass was a joke to what real abuse is. Sadam killed 20,000 people JUST in that prison. For favorites, he put them in the wood chipper head first. If he didn't like you, he put you in feet first. Of course he didn't do it personally, but he did film it. Those films should be on the internet for people to see. Then they would know the difference between harassment and torture.

@ Joe Glenn and all other civilians that have never been to these combat zones.

STFU!!!!!! Joe what is your experience, that gives you all this knowledge that with all this PC BS this war will come to a swift end, that winning the hearts and minds of these cave men will allow us to win this war quicker? To all of you that are saying they need to be punished, for violating the Geneva Conventions, that we are not monsters, that this makes us all look bad again you all need to STFU!!!!! Former 11B here, two deployments to that @!$%#e hole, and guess what this PC crap doesn't work, it will never work on these people, it might have worked in Iraq because those people are more civilized then these damn cave men in Afghanistan, but again it will not work there. Instead of pissing on them, burning them, or taking photos of them I enjoyed the old Ace of Spades with a nail attached to it while I was there. But hey that was just me, so I guess I'm a monster too? Right?

MOSinEUR, thumbs up to you, I see that not everyone has been indoctrinated with this tree-hugging, PC kool-aid.

Seems there is two kinds of soldiers. Ones who don't want to forget the war and take pictures of the dead and ones who want to have the damn thing erased from their minds. A lot of those guys and women are seriously damaged and will never be normal. I had two uncles in WW2. One was a bomber who couldn't NOT talk about the War. The second was in the Normandy invasion in the infantry and NEVER spoke of it. His kids had a homework assignment to ask what their father did in the War. He flatly refused to say anything. Who do you show these pictures to?

MosinEur

I love your posts. I wish i could track you down and shake your hand. The only problem with the US troops doing this is further upsetting a idiotic, rage filled, culture. If the troops insist on continue doing this kind of stuff, than they have to be prepared to further supress the uprising of ignorant, mad, muslims. Im all for it. Beat them down till they get scared to uprise. Until they can prove themselves to be human, they will not be treated as such. Send them to whatever God they so choose if they insist on spreading hate and violence in the name of Allah

Pats617, you're full of crap and I'll bet you never served in the military. Those 18 year old punks are the ones who fought and died in every war we ever fought. I don't know where you go every day that you see the things that you claim to see but I don't see those things in the bar, gym or grocery stores that I frequent and I also frequent the American Legion. What you perceive as arrogance, may actually be your inadequacy or jealousy because you didn't have the nerve to serve! I haven't see the pictures, but who cares what they show? In reality the Geneva Convention is a joke. It pretends to bring civility to the most uncivilized activity known to man. You can kill people with horrendous weapons, but don't take a picture with some ass who blew himself up? In war, it's all about winning and not how you play the game. Those not in the game, like you, are always the ones trying to say how the game should be played. In my opinion, your arrogance is worse than any that you claim to have witnessed!

mimijacques --the Geneva Convention covers soliders. Terrorist are not soliders, they are not covered by the Geneva Convention and their only "right" is a quick and painful death. You're concerned about a group of cowards who have absolutely no regard for human life. Since you're a female, the terrorist would have removed you first. The Terrorist are cowardly dogs, only I would have been more concerned if there were dog parts in the picture.

Corky...back at you. I am just so tired of this non ending war. Had we gone in and actually done an occupation with the proper amount of troops and civilian organizations needed to get the country restarted and waited about 5 years before we even thought about giving Afghanistan sovereignty, then I think we would have been much better off.

So many mistakes were made that it makes me wonder what kind of educated idiots we have running our Government and Military. If our leaders can be so stupid, I can't help but NOT find fault when some of our troops do something stupid. As one of my Marine friends says, "we are not paid to be smart, we are paid to fight."

Best to you.

Why would I be jealous to serve? Who the @!$%# wants to go and live in a desert and be shot at, simply so a few people can get rich off of it? Give me a break. I don't need to "prove" myself by signing up and putting on a uniform. All I need to do to prove my "patriotism" is be a law abiding citizen and actually "contribute" to society. When will America wake up and realize that war is just a big money making scheme, and the soldiers on the front lines are the ones who suffer.

If it wasn't for the Geneva conventions, the Afghan war would have been done 10 years ago...

The truly annoying part is that the revelation comes with a distance of two years and 8000 miles. You people in such a hurry to end the war with some 'reality photos' just imperiled the current boots on the ground for no reason beyond your own vanity.

"Stop with the PC BS," etc.

This is NOT about being "politically correct," it's about being "correct" PERIOD.

And for all of those saying, "well, they did it first" or "they did it too" 2 wrongs (or 2 million wrongs) NEVER make ONE RIGHT. You sound like my little brothers fighting as kids.

Should we kill 5 million jews in concentration camps because "they did it too"?

What has happened to the USA being better than our enemies and having courage and honor? People that the world could look up to, admire, emulate? At this rate what's the difference between us and the terrorists?

We're doomed.

MOSinEUR , and all the other American supporters: relax guys, anybody who has been in the military knows there are always those who just don't get it, and aim for the bottom. Those people who think we should do nothing in the face of evil. Those people who turn into petty tyrants and despots when you put a uniform on them and give them a little power...

Some people want to "contribute to society" by staying home, ignoring the world's problems, and thinking that those problems won't visit us here. It's up to our guys and girls in the services to save the peoples butts so they can "contribute" their ignorant opinions.

That's the job, and that's what we signed up for, as thankless as it may be. It's pathetic that some people don't get it, but some people never will.

If it was up to me, I'd neutron bomb the whole country, right up the Korengal, into Islamabad. Game over.

Amen. My thoughts exactly. Everyone on here defending these photos really do sound like children. "Well well...they started it! No fair!" I said it before and I'll say it again...we are better than this.

Time to get out of there. How can anyone approve spending over a billion dollars a week to put soldiers in a country that will never change anyway?

I suppose the soldier who provided these pictures to the L.A. Times will also be charged with treason and imprisoned next to Bradley Manning?

Here goes the lame stream media again sticking their nose's where they don't belong. The media has no business in a war.......none. We need out of that pig stye of a country but the media is making it hard for our troops.

Every been in war, shot at daily and buddies killed? When you get a chance a trophie photo would be a good stress relief...don't judge unless you have been there!!!!!!

When will the American Media who now all of a sudden will show graphic photos because it sheds a bad light on the American Military show us those graphic photos and videos of the type of things are enemy does? Why don't you air the beheadings of so called infidals, show the pictures of dead women and children after one of these brave suicide bombers blows himself up in a shopping center, show the Marine screaming as he is being carried to safety after having a leg blown off by a roadside bomb. It's disgusting how the only "graphic" photos that seem to be released are the ones that harm are men and women in uniform.

When a soldier comes home and you ask "what's it like over there", don't go crying to the media when he shows you pictures of what it is like over there.

I don't bash them for taking pics to share among them, but do they have to wind up in the media? Keep it under wraps, dammit.

@mimi...Whoever posted that picture doesn’t quite get it and I’ll tell you why, once any solider steps off the plane and into a war zone that soldier changes for life. The arm chair PC lawyers saying its wrong should join up and do what these soldiers are doing for one year. Going deep into enemy territory is way beyond you can imagine. What is running through their heads is not a game but a survival of the smartest and when the danger is over from a firefight they have to release their adrenalin somehow to get back to the level of “War Normality”. There is no longer normal for these soldiers for the rest of their lives. Trust me they will never bring out those pictures again to look, brag or wonder about. It is a “at the moment” thing and they did it for a good reason, their sanity. So these soldiers were “playing” by the rules of the UN/NATO agreement.

the hatred, vehement and vile in some of these posts only affirm what I've been writing. War only breeds hatred and hopelessness.

Immerse yourself in the environment these soldiers endure each day, imagine, if you are lucky enough not to have actually witnessed it, that your fellow soldiers have been killed or maimed by the people you were trained to kill, not murder, legitimately kill, for the sake of your country's safety. The cult of violence you are immersed in would make it difficult to resist participating in such acts once they were initiated.

The violence these people witness and wreak on others is beyond comprehension, even to them. This is the root of PTSD! Many of these people have been through multiple deployments.

Bring these people home, no more of this, we have fought so long, we are no closer to victory, the best we can hope for in Afghanistan is that a coalition government, that will include the Taliban, will not make the mistake of crossing us again by allowing terrorists to set up training camps within their borders.

No closer to victory, but consider, that we DID destroy the training camp within the first few days, we DID find Bin Laden and kill him, we HAVE retaliated against those who attacked us, we have destroyed them.

Unfortunately we continue to battle a growing force of people who hate us. Events like the one described here only provide recruiters for our enemies with the material they need to inspire more volunteers to sign on to their cause. We are going backwards, socially, economically, and we are building an ever growing, hardened group of people whose soul purpose in life is to see us fall. Fighting a conventional war against a disparate group is as stupid as the British marching in formation during the war for Independence. Clandestine action, not outright war is our best course IMHO.

Bring these people home, help them learn to live with the horror they've seen and caused. A war on terror fueled by acts of horror is a living nightmare and it needs to end!

This is NOT about being "politically correct," it's about being "correct" PERIOD.

When I fight with my wife because I am correct, and positive that she is wrong, I get no nooky that night or a couple of nights in a row.

MOSinEUR,

The 10+ years Afghan war is about security for private American companies to build a pipeline from Turkmenistan to India. The American military are tasked with holding the Taliban at bay in the North while in the South pipeline security is done with private mercenary companies by 'prince' and his merry band.

The American soldier and tax payer have so been sr@wed by washington.

War is war. If we fought World War II like we fight like today with "political correctness" and we "hope they like us" we would all be speaking German, Japanese, or dead. War is war and when you fight you are supposed to fight to WIN!! Debate whether we should be there or not all you want but we ARE there and you fight to win and be damned to what others think. If we are NOT intending to fight to WIN (which we have clearly not been for 10 years) then we should get out.

When you have the enemy (like in the past) held up in an ancient mosque and they are shooting at US then as far as I am concerned they have 5 minutes to get out of the mosque or we will blow it up. Be damned what people think. It is no longer being used as a mosque in this example it is a defense fortress and it should be blown up. But our limp wristed approach to war is killing and maiming our fighting men and women and for what? So they will LIKE us?!?!? So how is THAT working out for us.....

So now we have "pictures"......... I don't give a tiny rats behind and let's forward MORE pictures to the Taliban. You continue to shoot at us this will happen to you too..........

I agree that our troops need to do what they need to do to win the war, and that war is rough. Terrorists must be killed before they can kill you.

Posing with the dead bodies and taking photos does nothing to help us win the war. It does nothing to stop terrorism. It does nothing to end the war sooner. It does nothing to make our troops safer. If anything, it makes them less safe because of the retaliation and makes the allied forces seem less like the "good guys."

I understand that, after years of fighting, there is a desire to carry a trophy of victory-and that I, having never been in combat, cannot appreciate the stress they are under and need for release. But, in the long run, acts like this do far more to hurt the overall cause than help.

Not to mention that they are under orders to not do this. They were disobeyed their orders. That is never ok-especially for a trophy.

Yes, they do similar things, and far worse. Yet, that is why I am on our side. We are better than that. We are there to protect our country from terrorism-not behave like a WWE wrestler who won a match.

Patsy617,

it is no wonder you can not get a date with a GI. You are too dumb to remember 9/11. Most GIs like even their dumbest dates to have some idea of why we went to war in Afghanistan.

But hey, if you are not too old, it maybe fun for you to shead about 80 to a 100lbs and try to qualify for military service. Perhaps the experience will do you good. But if you find you just can't lose the extra blubber, you can go down to the NAVY and see what they can do for you. After 9 months at sea, you may not look too bad to one of them.

Pictures of trophy kills helps moral. General Patton said something to the affect of "..let THOSE patriotic bastards DIE for their country!"

Sorry if I am wrong, but if we are ever going to be able to weed the field, isn't it a good idea to incite those that want to do us harm so they crawl out of their holes so we can kill them?

I haven't served in Afghanistan, but I know what it's like to face combat. So, the picture or trophy taking is somewhat natural. But, like they say, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. Those pics should never have come out.

America is the de facto policing force. We shouldn't brag about our kills, we should convey the professionalism of the best military in the world. Or we are going to draw criticism from countries all over the world.

Its the rules of war and honer that sets apart us from our brute terror enemy that commit unspeakable war crimes..... the trophy picture behavior is understandable but should not be accepted and certainly should not be condoned... people that are condoning this activity and dismissing the Geneva convention rules just because our enemy is more crude and brutal... doesn't make it right.... if we sink to the same lawless dishonor brutality of our enemy we become no better than they are.

I see a few ignorant azzes in here talking about "f*ck them" and "kill, burn or p*ss on our enemies!".

What enemies would that be?

Afghan people who just want an occupying foreign military to leave?

The types of people who believe that Afghan is harboring some dire threat or "enemy" against the USA, believe just about anything.

We are still there, to keep the Chinese and other powers from moving in and controlling lithium mines, to safeguard opium $$, and maintain a measure of power in the region.

If there was a foreign military occupying the USA, how many of you believe that there wouldn't be US citizens carrying out "insurgent" attacks?

It is unfortunate that somebody NEEDS to kill these extremist Islamic freaks.

I am in agreement with sotired. I have seen combat at the beginning when it was Operation Freedom and served 3 years out of my last 6 in a combat zone. many of you are keyboard soldiers and weekend warriors that hunt deer and other harmless animals. When you are in a combat zone you do nothing or want nothing posted to incite the enemy. If you were ever in a fire fight you would know that. The easy thing to do is take a life living with that fact afterwards is what drives people crazy. So to walk around bragging about this id disgusting to say the least. How can you be up in arm when it is done to one of my (and I mean mine because many of you were never there) comrades and applaud it when it is one of theirs. When this happened we wanted revenge it didn't matter whom we took it out on. We are governed by rules that do not always seem fair but it helps keep you and your buddy alive. having people on the world wide web applauding this as though they are so prehistoric that they do not have the internet is sickening.

As Always:

Esprit De Corps.

@Erinsfire

Just like what ProBusiness stated, if we fought WWII like how our so called leaders are telling us troops to fight like, we would've lost. You are asking where is our honor and pride when we fight? Look at what we did in WWII, our leaders, and generals back then had one objective, to WIN, nothing else. Fighting Germany we bombed towns that had no military presence what so ever, so that the will of the people would be destroyed, so that their forces would lose their will to fight as well. Look at what we did to Japan, ever here of a gentleman named LT. Colonel James "Jimmy" Doolittle and the Doolittle Tokyo Raid, or how about the B-29 Firebombing missions over Japan as well causing more then 500,000 deaths and leaving around 5 million homeless, how this one, you heard of Little Boy in Hiroshima inflicting 90 - 166,000 deaths, or Fat Man in Nagasaki inflicting 60 - 80,000 deaths, and it ended the war. We had honor then and pride as well, that honor and pride was all about us winning at all costs, to bring justice to the world for what NAZI Germany and the Empire of Japan did to innocent people. Majority of us soldiers know our history, and do not see why we are forced to fight differently then the most famous and greatest generation of people our country has seen, because WAR is WAR and it is not meant to pretty, and nice. WAR is ugly, very ugly and until you see if first hand, keep your PC BS to yourself. Thank-you

"Right On" MOSinEur. I totally agree!

TRH86:

My dad served in WW2. He told me stories about the Russians, the other winners, nailing Germans, including civilians, to barn doors before killing them. US troops never sank to that level, in fact, they treated their POWs decently. Now, after co-winning WW2 and becoming a military super-power, we have an obligation to uphold the image of a righteous force. They are telling this to soldiers during training. Whatever you do, your objective is your mission, and try to make us look good while accomplishing it.

@ MOSinEUR, Corky, and other warhawks:

Don't blame us civilians for the way the Army behaves these days. Blame leaders of the military who actually LEARNED the hard lessons of the Vietnam War.

Compared to the 58,000 soldiers we lost in Vietnam, we killed several million Vietnamese (both NA/VC and civilians). We tried the brute force method, and yet they still kept fighting, and we were eventually driven out. What makes you think a "gloves off" approach will work in Afghanistan if it failed us in Vietnam?

I believe it was Mark Twain who said that "history does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

we as a nation are fast losing our soul.

War is a nasty.......and sometime you have to act like an animal to survive the madness

...God Bless...Bright Them Home Now!!!

Hello Mosineur, it is this type of thought process that separates the barbarians from the enlightened souls. I hope your support of such atrocities doesn't come back to haunt you, but if it does you chose your own karma through your support of these atrocities.

Genghis Khan’s troops use to play polo with the heads of their enemies.

I think they should post before and after picture of the suicide bombers so their friends and family can see what martyrdom really looks like.

If they had killed this guy, it would be considered a trophy. The guy blew himself up. It's no different than showing a picture of a car wreck or photos of the aftermath of a tornado. People like the macabre for some reason.

Deployment 3 to 5 times in one enlistment......constant combat....unable to tell if the people are friends or not....

For those of you that have never seen combat....you just do not know....each day in combat you either loose or put a little part of yourself away. Your loyalty becomes to the men in your squad and that is how you survive.

During Viet Nam...it was one tour....if you survived and that was that 12 months. We are sending this generation of soldiers back to the chaos of war over and over again.

DO NOT JUDGE THEM....JUDGE ALL OF THE POLITICIANS THAT HAVE BEEN SENDING THEM BACK OVER AND OVER AND OVER......

Sure, our troops can take trophy shots. Just don't complain when they're killed and the same thing happens to them.

59 years here, four of them as 11B, gives me the right to criticize poor behavior and those who say that poor behavior is justified (not that you need to earn a right to criticize poor and counterproductive behavior, that right is conferred by your humanity).

Hmmm. The way I see it, the terrorists, insurgents, whatever, can show all the grossest pictures they want (beheadings, tortures, killings) and get by with it. Yet, a blown-up terrorist (by his OWN hand at that) is off-limits? Get REAL, people.

If we had protested and raised holy hell when some of the first of our troops and civilians were murdered in cold blood and their pics were posted worldwide, maybe the terrorists would have crawled back to their caves and thought twice about it.

We should have screamed and yelled, ranting like a bunch of mad monkeys, when journalist Daniel Pearl was beheaded in 2002. Nothing that has ever been posted by America could even come close to that! Why didn't we send all our firepower over there and blow up everything in sight? That's how they feel about Americans.

Turnabout is fair play, and screw the bleeding hearts. "If you won't back our troops, then please feel free to stand in FRONT OF THEM", you cowards!!!

Mimi...et al... if you are trying to say that the present administration in the White House is directly responsible for the acts of these soldiers and whatev happen in the war theatre then shouldn't the Bush administration be blamed for the billions of dollars stolen and all the looting of artifacts etc from museums etc that took place in Iraq during the war there? Shouldn't that adm have required that the Armed Forces follow the code of conduct as set forth?

How about the billions of dollars that took wings and flew away in Afghanistan during the Bush Admin? Shouldn't Pres Bush and his admin also be direcly blamed for various negative activities and photos that were taken at that prison in Iraq or where ev it was during his tenure and the various other unsavory things that occurred during his time as Commander in Chief?

So what role do those in the upper echelons of the Armed Forces have to play regarding the oversight of the actions and conduct of those under their command on down?

Why is it that we now blame everything on the present WH and never on the higher ups in the Armed Forces or Congress who are supposed to provide oversight of the Armed Services as well as the financial and other sectors etc ?

How it that the present WH is/was being blamed when certain things like the debt ceiling was not being raised because of the T'repcondinos in Congress posturing and which when raised later resulted in the USA losing it triple A rating for the first time in its history?

How is it that this present WH is now being blamed for the various jobs bills not being passed (due to the T'repcondinos fillibusterings) or that there is/was no national energy policy, or the recent failure of the passing of the fairness bill which would have resulted in everyone being required to pay their fair share in taxes that would have helped to provide the revenues that the govt requires to provide for the needs of the whole country and the various sectors abroad? How is it that this WH is now being blamed for the USA not being energy independent? Wasn't the country lacking in energy independence before 2009?

How about the forclosure crisis that continues? Shouldn't this mess have been addressed from in 2007-2008? The housing bubble didn't just occur or burst in 2009 on the present admins watch, so why wasn't something done pre 2008 to prevent the financial collapse resulting in the millions of people losing their jobs coupled with the housing bubble bursting also resulting in the forclosures and the continued fallout from same?

Plus why is it that the present majority in Congress and the present GOP candidate for president are against anything being done to help homeowners facing forclosure or any folks in the masses regarding jobs or to help to outlaw income disparity where women continue to earn less than their male counterpart?

Although the Lilly Ledbetter law was passed at the federal level why is it that there are still those T'repfolks who would do away with this law and are now passing laws at the State level so women will continue to earn less than their male counterparts in those States?

What about our deteriorating infrastructure, like those bridges, dams, levees, roads, sewer/water systems, transportation, lack of affordable housing? How about the need to upgrade the electric grid, to expand wireless etc into even the rural areas, to upgrade our nuclear energy plants and the various other things that needs to be done in this country? Is the present President being blamed for that too? Why?

Why is it that the private financial sector is not investing in these things? Why is it that any new nuclear energy plants will have to and is being funded by the govt/taxpayers because the private sector do not want to take the risk to fund these plants because it would be too costly or uninsurable?

Did all these things just happen in 2009 or were these issues ongoing over time ie for like the past 20-30 odd years? Why is it that there is this push back and fillibustering by the T'repcondino especially worse since 2010 of any bills brought by the Dems in congress and or the WH to address these infrastructure issues? Why is the present President being blamed for that too?

How is it possible that since 2010 very little to nothing is being done to help the country and the masses since the T'repcondinos have become the majority in Congress? How is it that the only work that these folks have done and laws passed -whether in congress or in T'repcondino state govts- were pertaining to trying to control womens lives and their reproductive organs and the reproductive organs of the men in their lives and the decreasing the taxes paid by the top 1-10%ers and giving them even additional tax breaks?

What is with the paying of lipservice only to the masses by these T'repcondinos polititians while they fillibuster and do nothing to really, fairly and intelligently address all the issues facing our country whether it is hunger, poverty, homelessness and lack of education opportunities post highschool for children and the less fortunate in our society, and the further sliding of folks from the middle classes into poverty swelling the ranks of the poor, to our vets and their many issues whether medical, mental, physical, homelessness, poverty, joblessness etc? Is the present admin in the WH responsible for that too?

If the present President is to be blamed for all that has happened and is happening in this country and abroad, what is the role of Congress in regards to the governance of this country?

If Congress has no role to play then why is a Congress needed then? Couldn't the country save mega-millions per year in salary and benefits being paid to these folks and their aides etc by downsizing and or defunding them so that the country is soley governed by one branch of govt i.e. the WH? How about to make sure that this is so, why don't we also just get rid of the SCOTUS while we are at it?.

Think of it..... instead of 3 branches in govt to provide checks and balances we would have only 1 ruler which would be whomever is presently in the WH. We would not have to bother to find out who are the ones to share the blame or to be blamed directly, as we would and could simply lay the blame for the state of the country -at least at the the Federal level -on the person in the WH and his or her administration. LOL

There are a lot of problems in our country and a lot of blame to go around. So lets be fair and start placing the blame where it is really due and upon the shoulers of those who should shoulder the blame for their own inattention or lack of vision or oversight as per their job discription.

Also, while we are it also blame ourselves for our own ignorance, stupidity, selfcenteredness, selfishness and selfish greed, our glorifying wars and violence and bling, busy wasting a lot of money on irrelevances that do not transulate into wealth or wealth growth, in an pretentious attempt to be exclusive instead of being real and inclusive.

Many of us are so busy passing the blame and/ or unfairly putting said blame at a particular person's door or on a particular group of people because of politics and prejudice, that we fail to see -in our willful political blindness and prejudice- that we are not only short changing our country but also ourselves big time. For eg.. the housing bubble/nothing done/massive forclosures/ now even lower property values for all of us/ all homeowners lose.

Oh well ...ranted out...

Peace.... think for yourself...

wow by the looks of these posters, i am living amongst a bunch of ugly americans... some of our troops disgust me. We are supposed to be a shining example in a world of chaos, and these redneck hicks make us all look bad. I have been against this "war" since the beginning. For every one terrorist we kill, 3 more pop up. Thanks to the sheeple the american people have become, we are still there. If they did this to our troops bodies, which im sure they do, we would call them barbarians. When our troops do it, we call it the effects of stress and ptsd. Get real. And no i never will know what it is to see my friends die in battle, but i know that two wrongs definately don't make a right. where is americas morals. You bloggers have absolutely no moral compass and disgust me as an american because of your lack evolution. to me, those who stick up for this nonsense done by our troops need to evolve. Im not sticking up for the enemy, but some of our troops are just as barbaric and the posters on here are the same. Shame on you sick human beings. Who in their right mind would want to even touch these dead body parts if they didn't have to. that in itself is sick and twisted.

We wonder why our violent crime rate has gone down over the last 10 years... maybe because a lot of our thugs and criminals are wearing uniforms and have been deployed for the last 10 years. I can hardly wait until these thugs are re-integrated with normal society again. This by no means means every soldier... there are thousands who are good, honorable people who are serving proudly and deserve to wear the uniform and to those I say thank you.

But the punks in this photo and many others don't deserve to wear the uniform and I personally don't "want" them representing or fighting for me... they deserve to be in a cell somewhere like Guantanamo Bay! These soldiers have created more "harm" for their fellow soldiers by flaming the flames of hatred in that country. They are disgusting pigs just like those in the other more recent photos shown where soldiers were pissing on dead bodies. They are no better than the Taliban. I hope their arses go to jail for a long, long time!

If they had killed this guy, it would be considered a trophy. The guy blew himself up. It's no different than showing a picture of a car wreck or photos of the aftermath of a tornado. People like the macabre for some reason.

Exactly. NO ONE killed him. And given what they do to OUR servicemen, what our troops do to a bunch of dead suicide bombing sk.anks is NOT something that I'm going to sit up all night and bellyache about. What we ALL should be doing is calling Washington and keep hammering the bozos there into bringing our troops home. And vote ANY warhawk out of office. PERIOD.

Not one of you veterans posting here has ever fought for Freedom, ours or anyone else's... and you know it.

Not one of you veterans posting here has ever fought for Freedom, ours or anyone else's... and you know it.

That's not what soldiers do. They follow orders. You need to take your complaint to the top.

That's not what soldiers do. They follow orders. You need to take your complaint to the top.

Blind faith in failed leadership leads to what we have today. Before picking up a weapon ask YOURSELF why you are going into another man's backyard to kill his sons. If you can live with the answer then by all means join up. When the TOP comes calling and you have to balance the budget between your memories, intent, and conscience you will see what the entry price was, is and will be. The awakening will be hard to bear.

Neither saddam hussein nor the taliban have EVER been a threat to US 'Freedom'. HOGWASH.

Aye, don't desecrate the bomber's remains. Simply bury them with a pork chop in their mouth and a fireman's axe up their a**.

Facing Mecca, of course.

Shandril and Peter you either have a very large set, or a very small brain. It doesn't seem to make sense to me to upset the people that stand ready to defend your sorry selves.

MR BUBBS- you are wrong- the reason we lost in Vietnam is because the Left bailed on support for the effort, (if they ever had one) , and we DIDN'T fight the war the way it should have been. Not being able to kill the enemy is guaranteed to make you lose. The "rules of engagement" were formulated to MAKE us lose, and continue the corporations income, which you libs state to hate, but always implicitly support, in your tacit approval of dragging the war out.

Bombing the jungle instead of the cities accomplishes nothing. Bombing the cities, destroying the enemys infrastructure, familes, and will to live is what gets the job done. Vicious, nasty, and sad? Yes. But it's over with fast. I helped put those strikes in back then, and used to wonder why we weren't flattening downtown Hanoi and Haiphong.

Notice that we have the exact situation today: we have all the rules, the enemy has none. They chop heads off, and nobody complains ; we give a kid a hangnail, and it's Geneva Convention all the way.

As for the military going out of control, it's the POLITICIANS that control the military. If you have a problem with the methodology, talk to the people in charge. Our troops are just the lackeys for those grasping idiots in Congress.

Ritdog I'm sorry the whole reason the left jumped ship on Nam is because of the rules of engagement that the right made. Don't blame the people that saw the ship sinking and jumped because the person in charge rammed the ice on purpose!

Interesting how the government was in full spin mode befor the paper was published or the pictures released online. Big brother dropped the ball. they are supposed to control the media better than this. Obama better get some lessons from China. He is getting sloppy.

Does the LA times have to run stuff through government minders like China does?

If they didn't want their pictures taken, they should have used bigger bombs so the body parts would be harder to find.

I think this is hilarious but if some one tried to blow me up i would want to do more then take a picture of me laughing at them dead i would piss on them like the other soldiers did

In a stated issued by the Pentagon, Leon Panetta, Secretary of Defense, said: "These images by no means represent thevalues or professionalism of the vast majority of U.S. troops serving in Afghanistan today.

-----------------------

Our government keeps saying this yet it keeps happening. The differnece in attitudes between our culture and theirs shows up every time something like this happens. We don't understand them; they don't understand us. Seriously, it's time to bring our troops home and let them continue killing each other.

How come news only reports the dumb things our military does and not things like taliban making daily raids of peacful villages and cutting off the heads of anyone they dont like including little kids and hanging them for every one to see. Im suprised i even saw an artical about how they poisined 150 school girls to try and prevent them from learning.

What is the future of a society that doesn't care to consider the psychology of training a man to be a weapon, putting him in hyper-adrenalin life and death stress environment, expecting him to be callus enough to squeeze a trigger and end a life, but be sensitive about taking a picture?

A society of fools that will one day abandon all of their notions of civility when their own ass is on the line.

These men are heroes, and they are imperfect. And many will suffer life long consequences for serving their country. Sadly their own country will sacrifice them not only for it's safety interests, but for political interests as well. Same as it has ever been.

I'll say the same thing about this incident as I did when they pissed on the dead taliban. If you're going to do stuff like this do NOT allow photographs.

Obviously they didn't listen to me the last time.

I don't consider this any big deal. This is suicide bomber. Who cares?

"The danger is that this material could be used by the enemy to incite violence against U.S. and Afghan service members in Afghanistan. U.S. forces in the country are taking security measures to guard against it," ... That being said.. Good job MSN for reposting all of this crap to the internet.. You are no better than they are!!

I just can't help wondering why everytime I read about the war atrocities being committed in foreign countries it is always referred to as NATO alliance but yet is always and I do mean always american soldiers committing the atrocities. The problem being that the military simply slaps these people on the wrist if anything at all instead of doing what they should be doing and actually putting these war criminals away for good and making an example out of them for the rest of the soldiers to learn by.

What these scumbag soldiers are portraying is that we are no better than the very terrorists we are supposedly there to take out. They keep this crap up and it won't be long before the United States will be added to the axis of evil lists as well. We support these war atrocities simply because we do not actually prosecute and punish these scumbags that destroy the name of the rest of our armed services.

Mike the body parts are from people who tried to kill soldiers. If someone tried to kill me and failed I might not give a Shiite about respecting them either. That suicide bomber may have killed others in that blast too. He gets his virgins so who cares about a picture.

Get every American and UN soldier out of that rat hole and turn it into glass.

LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE DID NOT LIKE WHAT I POSTED EARLIER....

Deployment 3 to 5 times in one enlistment......constant combat....unable to tell if the people are friends or not....

For those of you that have never seen combat....you just do not know....each day in combat you either loose or put a little part of yourself away. Your loyalty becomes to the men in your squad and that is how you survive.

During Viet Nam...it was one tour....if you survived and that was "ONLY" 12 months. We are sending this generation of soldiers back to the chaos of war over and over again.

DO NOT JUDGE THEM....JUDGE ALL OF THE POLITICIANS THAT HAVE BEEN SENDING THEM BACK OVER AND OVER AND OVER......

Mike,

Wars have always been disgusting.

However, consider this.

You are in a foreign country. Away from home and family. Your fellow soldiers are now your immediate family. You sleep, eat, and laugh with them. They are your brothers and sisters now. You won't ever forget them. They are family.

Then one day/night you find yourself looking at their mangled body and that blank stare on their faces. You smell their blood. How do you think you would feel?

If you haven't felt that pain and sense of loss, then you have no right to judge those that have.

Some people just s hit in their pants. How about you?

25th I.D.

Cu Chi, RSVN

1968-1969.

Who cares, I dare say none of the critics have gone through what these soldiers have gone through.

leroy, Like you, I have no problem with a soldier doing his job..killing the enemy...or letting the enemy blow himself up. I think of it as a celebration about saving the lives of my fellow soldiers who are in danger from a suicide bomber constantly. One suicide bomber that has been stopped short of his goal is trophy worthy. I do think the pictures would better be published in the middle east newspapers, as a deterrent, not in our news media.

In vietnam my brother was in alpha company. they found a half gook that got blown up by a 8 inch gun. Bravo company stated they did better they found charcoal charlie that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and got napalmed.

That having been said. Did you know when the suicide bombers who wear the vests are easily identified. Seriously, the explosion pops off their heads. snap crackle pop, islamikazi. and besides somebody has got to pick up the body parts. Spin it like you want i would have preferred to see theother end.

Nosey3425

"what is a win in Afghanistan"

The only way you can define a win in any war is for the President to go before a joint session of Congress and ask for a Declaration of WAR!

It is historically at that time when what constitutes a win is defined, as in WWII when it was Unconditional Surrender.

Declaration of War means that the entire country and every fabric of our nation is on a war footing......not just the troops with one goal in mind.....the Win.

Since the start of the Korean War (which still has not ended....just a shaky truce) the politicians have made war to easy and distant.

If not for a Free Press....just what would we know?

It would be HIGHLY interesting to find out (1) who "gave" thee photos to the L.A. Times and (2) why the L.A. Times published them.

(1) Time for an investigative reporter to investigate the L.A. Times contacts.

(2) Time to find our the real reason these photos hit the media.

I bet when they tried to piece the guy back together again,they put his ass where his head use to be and that is what the commanders are affraid will cause the muslims to get offended over. What do the people thinkk our boys should do with the body parts, Just scrape them up and give them a propper burial costing thousands of dollars so as not to offend anybody?

Soon we will read some Afghan Police/soldier killed Americans in retaliation for disrespect of Muslim Dead. I believe every day for a week the lead stories in the media have to do with Gubmint employee screwups. The bosses keep apologizing but never seem to get angry at the perpetrators or their supervisors. Instead, they see the media story as an attack on their "loyal" peons and they want to attack the attackers, so they defend the perpetrators. IT is so screwed up in Wash DC they may not be able to do anything right. We need to wrap it up in Iraq and Afghan and bring 'em home. Last team out ought to be the engineers blowing things up on our way out.

By Sohel Uddin, NBC News in Kabul, and F. Brinley Bruton, msnbc.com

Updated at 2 p.m. ET: KABUL: The Los Angeles Times published photos showing U.S. troops posing with the body parts of dead suicide bombers in Afghanistan on Wednesday, prompting condemnations from American officials even before the pictures were posted on the newspaper's website.

How can O'bama let this happen! First I learn that our Commander n' Chief ate dog, and now this!! Im in shock!

The brother that took those pictures should de treated like a traitor for their fellow comrades, this soldier is even worst than people in congress who call our soldier, assassins who kill child and woman in the middle of of the night. Too many lefty Mannings dressing like soldiers they are scumbags.

" My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

in viet nam we collected ears. the enemy is the enemy. they,re body parts should be put on public display. these are terrorists and there for not to be considered human. who gives a @!$%# if the muslims get offended. they are a primitive ignorant race that degrades woman, refuses to educate themselves other than the quaran a book written by a idiot, who thinks he spoke with god. they all need to be injected with pork fat and left to die.

So these pictures will incite the Talaban to violence? So what's their excuse for all the other days?
I don't give a toss about these images. When nutters don't respect their own lives enough to NOT be a suicide bomber, they lose all respect, in my opinion. Maybe the sight of these photos will encourage local families to try harder to prevent their kids from being suicide bombers? Could the USA not spin this in another direction, instead of groveling so much?

This photo opt with body parts may benefit the Afghan people. Pathetic suicide bombers, not only they get 72 virgins of unknown sex (most suicide bombers are male, they sure will have many rounds) now their body parts are displayed like trash. No sympathy to suicide killer that tries to kill innocent civilians, wonder what their brainless handler will do now. Maybe future suicide killers will think twice before commiting to another senseless killing spree, knowing their body parts will be treated as useless trash heap, considering the Taliban do not respect living human being,

leroy2112

Mike the body parts are from people who tried to kill soldiers. If someone tried to kill me and failed I might not give a Shiite about respecting them either. That suicide bomber may have killed others in that blast too. He gets his virgins so who cares about a picture.

I care very much about the nature of the pictures. The very same way I care when I see Taliban soldiers standing over the bodies of our soldiers and take pictures to use as mental warfare. I do not see horror etched in the faces of the soldiers in the pictures. I see mockery and a war crime being committed. Anything any of our soldiers do that would further put their fellow comrades in unnecessary dangers or deface and humiliate our armed forces and make their jobs even more difficult diplomatically is an issue that needs to be dealt with and addressed severely.

Why are there some people on here writing..."That our borders need to be protected"...?

From what...? All of Mexico is in the U.S now...! Isn't it just a little too late to start protecting it now...?

The barn door was left open for the past ten years... and..."NOW"... we need to protect it...???

And it REALLY looks like there are some in the military, that are speaking quite loudly for the rest, who feel that this Afghanistan crap hole is a lost cause...! Too bad that the dullards who are running the show, seem to think otherwise, and instead, feel wasting more money on this crap hole and it's Neanderthals is worth it for some insane reason....!

"It’s deplorable what occurred and I am sure justice will be rendered, but what bothers me more than anything else is that 99.9 percent of young Americans serving over there have the highest standards,” McCain said. “I've seen with my own eyes thousands of acts of kindness and generosity that our men and women in the military show to the Afghan people.”

Mr. McCain is right. What we need to be hearing and sharing is the great many stories of the good things that 99.9% are doing. It's very sad and demoralizing to only hear of the atrocities. We should be counteracting these misfits and their crimes by using the stories of heroes such as Sgt. Dennis Weichel, of the Rhode Island National Guard, who gave his life to save a young girl. Or how a soldier helped sooth an upset child with a candy bar. Anything to counteract these crimes and help put the great many soldiers that never lose their dignity and upheld the code of honor with pride.

Mike did you ever serve? Did you ever fight in a war? Have you ever been shot at? Probably not! Tell me what the crime is really?! The fool killed himself and missed his target. Take your trophy boys and come home safe! And for all my fellow GI's present and past, HOORAH!

If it was a picture of a naked little girl running down the road in terror, they'd have won a Pulitzer.

Having friends who served in Viet Nam, I can attest to the fact that this was a fairly common practice then, and if memory serves me correctly when I was quite young I found a box of photographs that included a couple of similar photos from my dad's service in the Pacific during WW2. Any goggle search will bring up archived photos dating back to the Civil War of the same practice. I suspect if photography had been around a couple of thousand years ago we wouldn't need an "artistic" rendition of what Jesus looked like.

The point is that this will insight more anger towards our troops. A photojournalist taking photos may instill some emotions, but not at all to the same degree as seeing a photo of a dead man with a US soldier giving a thumbs up.

The soldiers in this picture need to think twice about what they are doing. It isn't about being PC. It is about common sense. And about not creating more enemies that are going to kill their fellow soldiers.

People need to think of the actual consequences of their actions. Its not about politics, its about the fact that the lives of other soldiers are more important than some childish photo op to show to your buddies. And the pictures will never just stay with your buddies.

Vets, I agree. I am a good liberal...but I still must join Vets and Jon in reminding you guys of that unforgettable scene in the movie Troy (or, if you prefer, the timeless epic called The Iliad) where Achilles drags Hector's dead body around the battlefield tied to his chariot. The more things change, the more they remain the same. If there had been a camera around, he would have waved at it.

Who cares????? I'm sure these suicide bombers weren't there to play nice!

These pics are two years old and inconsequential as far as I'm concerned! Carry on.

I don't really see what this has to do with being liberal. Are you suggesting that conservatives approve of posing with corpses? While I agree that situations like this have probably occurred in every war or conflict that fact alone doesn't make this behavior ok. If this was a battle in the US I might feel a little different. However, "defending" ourselves by invading a country on the other side of the world means we have to hold the moral ground as the world watches.

Absolutly right! It's about time we bring our troops home and let these bleeding hearts go over there and do the thankless job our servicemen and women are doing. They send over 18 and 19 year old kids tell to shoot and kill the so called enemy and then, don't forget to do it with compassion. What a bunch of BS.

Wow, I'm not surprised by the low-class-scumbags that post in here. Just because your enemy is a POS you don't have to act like a POS.

who cares,like they {arabs} haven't done worse,war is hell,if you haven't been through it then shutup ! party on usa then come home,we need you to guard our boarders,screw those other countries..............

Seriously, this is news? If you've NEVER been a teenage kid in a combat zone and actually been in combat, your stupid uninformed opinion means squat. Go back to watching Dancing with the 2nd rate "stars" and shut the hell up, OR, grow a set and join our Military. Semper Fi.

Fortunately the liberal moonbats have a functioning minds. The same can't be said about you brain dead (brainless?) cons.

it's no better than their videos of our people being chopped to bits, turnabout is fair play!

Vets, Im a vet, probably considered liberal. I see nothing wrong with what they did. This has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. I think it goes back to civilians will never and can never understand being trained to kill. Lazy boy generals are the ones complaining over what i would consider tame. I have seen a string of ears in a bottle, and Im pretty sure they were all from NV.

For all of you that have never served let me pose a question that might help you understand the mindset of war for at least a sailor. You have a hole in the hull of your ship, in the compartment your in. The only things floating in the water are a mattress, an I-beam, and a dead body. How do you plug the hole?

Answer: Put the body of your shipmate in the hole, place the mattress over him and wedge the plug with the I-beam.

Summary: There is nothing humane in war!

I don't give a rats a-- if those fanatics over there like the pictures or not, like many of you have stated these animals were suicide bombers, for g-d sakes. These people in this country that agree with Obama apologize for everything move to the west coast and let the rest of us in peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope the soldiers make a poster sized version of the photo and hang it up in their living rooms.

It's called following orders. Clearly you've never been in the military or you wouldn't question it.

I'll buy a few dozen

Bill, let me see if I can help you to understand.

The soldiers are in a thing called "the military". The military is kind of like a job, except your work day never ends. Another difference is, you can't just quit and go find another job if you get all upset with your boss. The military works a little differently. See, they have these things called "orders" that are given by "superior officers". An order isn't quite like a memo. The main difference is the consequences of not following an order are generally far more severe than not following a memo. If you ignore your bosses memo, you might be reprimanded or at worst fired. If you ignore an order, you can be "brought up on charges" and really bad things can happen.

In the military, you don't just wake up one morning and decide, heck - you'd like to go serve in Afghanistan today! It may come as a shock to you that many of the soldiers in Afghanistan would probably really rather not be there at all. You're having a hard time understanding why they are there? It's because of those "orders" made by "superior officers". Your boss might not herd you into a troop transport and ship you off to some foreign sh!thole so you can, I dunno, increase sales or some crap, but your superior officer sure as hell will.

That is a bit of an oversimplification, but in your case probably the simpler the better. Hopefully you now have some glimmer of understanding as to why a soldier would serve in Afghanistan.

I hope the soldiers make a poster sized version of the photo and hang it up in their living rooms.

Nothing screams of mental disorder like a large dismembered/ shot up person poster over the fireplace.

What a better way to not escape the nightmares than having a life size image of death on the walls.

Have you ever served during combat? For those of us that have, the last thing we would ever want on our walls, is a poster sized photo of a shot up corpse.

"I can't understand why any American soldier would serve in Afghanistan."

It's called Duty. In an all volunteer military you can find yourself in the strangest places.

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

NYMike, I really don't think anyone seriously would put the picture into a poster on the wall. The idea is that they have the right, as a survivor, to take a photo. Rules be damned in this case.

As a U.S. troop, you do not have the right to decide what you can and can not do.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice was established to maintain discipline within the military. At no point, can we cherry pick the regulations we can choose to follow. The success of our military is a direct result of the rules and regulations our men and women in uniform follow every day.

They have the right, as a survivor, to go back home and be with their loved ones.

I really don't think anyone seriously would put the picture into a poster on the wall.

Sadly, you would be wrong. Some out there can not process what they have seen or done. They would not see anything wrong with gruesome posters of their kills on the walls.

My apologies NYMike... I didn't mean to offend anybody.

NYMike, I am all for following orders and the UCMJ, BUT do we want to make this into some big crime? Is it a bigger crime than say, all the General Officers and Senior Enlisted that commit adultery? Those are not just against a General Order, they specifically are violations of Military Law? Not to many of those guys get more than a slap on the wrist. If our junior troops disobey this order, then lets treat them the same way we treat a senior leader.

I personally say that if a troop takes a picture of some POS that was trying to kill him, I say POST IT on the Internet and maybe the next nut case will think twice about trying to kill one of ours.

Those jockies can go to hell. One minute they are trying to kill you, and next you have to be nice to them. I am assuming that the beheading of our troops is OK. The best thing that could happen is to pull all our troops out and bring them home, but that won't happen, because way too many of our politicos are making money on this war.

NYMike, I am all for following orders and the UCMJ, BUT do we want to make this into some big crime?

Yes. Yes we do.

With that being said, in order for criminal charges to be brought forward, any mental instability needs to be ruled out first.

Was the soldier under any serious mental strain at the time? War changes a man. I know that's a cheesy line, but it's true.

I say POST IT on the Internet and maybe the next nut case will think twice about trying to kill one of ours.

This has never changed any combat environment for the better. If anything, it makes it worse. Now the enemy is posting your fellow troops corpse for all to see. If anything you have further galvanized the hate.

We always have to remember, no matter what side a soldier is on, they feel they are on the right side. For this behavior from any country to happen, only solidifies the hate they have for each other.

My apologies NYMike... I didn't mean to offend anybody.

Not that you offended me, but no matter what you say, you will offend someone. I was just pointing out a more in your face reality of things we choose no to bring home from the battlefield.

Rob: "It's called following orders. Clearly you've never been in the military or you wouldn't question it."

Are you saying the commanders ordered these photos? Cite your source.

Also, your above quote was on the lips of all the Nazis at Nuremberg. They were hung. That excuse didn't fly then--why would it fly today?

Monsenir: "The idea is that they have the right, as a survivor, to take a photo. Rules be damned in this case."

Oh! So you pick and choose which rules you follow in the Military? hmmmmm....

You just damned yourself with that comment.

We've seen pictures, multiple pictures of our troops that have been placed on the net, of our troops in diferfent scenes of death, degradation. The US and Pentagon personnel do not raise hell about that and other atrocities committed by other countries. I'm so disgusted with the way things are in Washington and the rules placed upon our troops on battle fields that it literaly upsets me. Rules in war times should be limited to which our militaary doesn't have everything they do picked to death like an old dead carcass. They are human beings. If showing the legs of a dead enemy compares to those of our troops hanging from a bridge, burned, dead and joyful eniemies placing them on the net, then there is something more wrong in Washington and the pentgon than we know and think. Put our commander and chief along with his cronies on the battlefield lines and give them limited rules and lets video them as they try to figure out how to try to win a war with ther hands and feet tied. Our military deserves more. I am not ashamed or embrassed by these pictures. I am ashamed of our political system which does not stand up for and support our troops. They always say they are embarrassed and try to resove the situation. Leave it be. It will resolve itsself. I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, regardless and am not ashamed of these pics. You ROCK.

ErinsFire42

Rob: "It's called following orders. Clearly you've never been in the military or you wouldn't question it."

Are you saying the commanders ordered these photos? Cite your source.

Sir he wasn't taking about the pictures, he was replying to Bill who said "I can't understand why any American soldier would serve in Afghanistan".

Several of the pictures show fellow Afghan Law Enforcement and military personnel standing right besides the US troops holding what was left of would be suicide bombers. Big deal. When I was in Iraq they had an insurgent sniper who had killed several US Marines from his firing position during the fight for Fallujah in 2004. One of our snipers blasted his head into mush with a high powered rifle and some of the service members placed the dead insurgent in a chair, much like the scence from the movie "Full Metal Jacket" with the dead Viet Cong fighters sitting up-right. Individuals took pictures. No one really gave a flip. A few hours before that this guy killed and seriously wounded fellow US service members, who cares about some stupid pictures. Go log into You Tube and query combat videos and watch Afghan or Iraqi insurgents get blasted to small pieces from drone or gunship strikes. War is brutal and to get spun up on dead insurgents is a waste of time. Not like there aren't a bunch of clips the Taliban has taken of mass shootings, beheadings, and dismemberment. No public outcry from the rest of the world when you see those clips. But...... here we want to conduct war in a clean PC fashion.

Jo Ollier:

If showing the legs of a dead enemy compares to those of our troops hanging from a bridge, burned, dead and joyful eniemies placing them on the net, then there is something more wrong in Washington and the pentgon than we know and think.

What makes it any better when we publicly gloat over the deaths of our enemies than when other people do it? We're different because we're American? Is that it?

Put our commander and chief along with his cronies on the battlefield lines and give them limited rules and lets video them as they try to figure out how to try to win a war with ther hands and feet tied.

LOL, explain to me how showing respect to the dead makes it any harder to win a war. Here's a hint: antagonizing the locals for no reason is actually what makes things harder.

When people die in a war, they should not be considered trophies like a set of antlers one would put above a fire place in the den. They are people...All of them....Theirs and ours. Unfortunately, when bad men want to fight, good men die. It is just the way of things. Some things are just plain wrong. This happens to be one of them. No need to think that hard about it. Just wrong...

Hey mike, since you seem to know the UCMJ, show me where it says you cant take a pic of a dead guy while your smiling.

It's really not that hard to address, photos such are easy to complain about, they allow us to be "shocked" by what war does without dealing with the reality of it. It's comparable to protesting or showing support for a cause by clicking the "like" button on a Facebook page or being dismayed over the fact that soldiers are urinating on dead bodies, I suspect most of us, if given a choice would rather be alive and pissed on rather then dead and dry.

Pats617-- I'll pass your words of support along to my Son when he gets back from Afghanistan (His second assignment) after 3 tours in Iraq. My Soldier and all true Military men appreciate your and your kind of rants about crap that don't mean anything so you can enjoy the freedom of speech you have up till November if he gets back in--you know, the campaigner in chief who hates America and the Military-- have a good day

I have cousins who are in the Marines, doesn't mean I have to "agree" with the war. I wish your son the best. I just wish he was fighting for a reason other than to make a few oil tycons, construction companies, and weapon makers rich.

Pat, show us where the oil is in Afghanistan? We didnt go there to make " a few oil tycoons, construction companies and weapon makers rich". We went there to kill the bad guys that killed 3000 plus Americans almost 11 years ago. Remember that day by chance? I sure as hell do. Iraq on the other hand. Stupid.

@TheGrunt......The Afghanistan's attacked the WTC? I thought the majority of the terriorists were Saudi's.

Azlandowner don't you dare trying to pass the fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan as a fight for our freedom. Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have nothing to do with our freedoms. They have to do with oil and gas. Nothing else. When our troops were fighting the Nazis it was a fight for freedom and those soldiers deserve respect and praise. When our troops are fighting and killing people for profits of oil tycoons they are not worthy of praise. They are worthy of pity. They signed up to fight for our freedom and ended up fighting for profits of someone who is already well off. And you dare to defend the cause they are fighting for. No wonder the rest of the world hates us. They see us as being full of crap. We say we fight for freedom while everyone sees that we fight for money. You want to fight terrorism? Fix the way this country is run. Because whatever we've been doing for decades is wrong. We just breed more hatred towards us. And dumbass kids in uniforms who think it's cool to piss on the dead or take pics with body parts are making things worse. It does not matter if the dead are suicide bombers. It is their country and our soldiers have absolutely no right to be in their country. The more we stay there the more incentive we give to young people to become suicide bombers. And before "patriots" here start yapping their mouths about me disrespecting our troops, let me repeat this again so you dead brains can get it: Fighting for oil and gas is not fighting for our freedom. Fighting for freedom - good. Fighting for someone elses oil and gas - bad. What we did in Iraq and do in Afghanistan is a war crime. It is an immoral war. And the only time a soldier is not a part of a war crime is when he puts down his rifle and refuses to obey a criminal order. If he does not do it he is as guilty as the ones who sent him to fight. Everyone except for brain dead "patriots" see that this war is for profits. Thus a descent soldier should refuse to go to this war. If he does while knowing it is for profits only he is a criminal. If he does because he believes it is for freedoms he is an idiot. Either way he is doing damage to this country.

To Musafir--- Number 1, dont tell me how to talk about what my Son does as you obviously have your head up obummers a@# so far you need a flashlight to navigate. Number 2- you have no idea what we are fighting for cause you listen to all the liberal crap and believe it. If you want to disrespect our soldiers, why dont you move to one of those great countries we are fighting in and join the American haters--you might get to behead a military man or woman.

I'm sure you can get hanoi janes phone number and go hold hands with her when the MEN come home and just for kicks you can spit on a few like they did when we came back from Viet Nam.

God bless our soldiers AND GEORGE BUSH for having the guts to get it done and stop any more 9-11s

The war in Iraq and Afghanistan is about the resources. You mentioned that our soldiers and George Bush had the guts to get it done and stop any more 9-11. How does attacking Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 help? Iraq was not involved in 9-11, there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq. Thus the excuse for this war was a lie. We attacked a sovereign nation based on a lie. The whole world knows it. None of you republican zealots can present a proof that Iraq was involved in 9-11, or proof that there were WMD's in Iraq. We attacked Iraq for oil and nothing else. As far as Afghanistan goes it is all about a gas pipeline to Turkmenistan. U.S. corporations tried to negotiate the pipeline with the Taliban government, but the Taliban was hard to persuade. It is a fact. So United States had to get rid of the Taliban. It is not liberal crap. It is actual information that can be backed up by evidence. As opposed to Republican crap about Iraq's involvement in 9-11, or WMDs in Iraq. Thus, our soldiers are fighting for someone else's profits and not for our freedom. Thus those who participated in these wars have innocent blood on their hands. Thus, they deserve no praise. Just pity. And I am sorry you son had to put a sin of murdering innocent people on his soul. If he participated in these wars he is a part of a war crime. Lord have mercy on him on the Judgement Day.

Amen!! If it had happened on Obumba's watch, he would have probably Apologized to the families of those who flew the planes for the Towers being in their way and offered to pay them millions! He is a Liberal, Socialist Dumb Ass who Refuses to salute our Flag, place his hand over his heart or salute when the National Anthem is sung or have the Flag in any scenes where he is speaking to the public! He is a Disgrace! And musafir-the only dead brain here is yours!

Dave, if you think i am brain dead then prove me wrong. Prove that Iraq had WMD's and was involved in 9/11. Because if you cannot prove it, it means that pigs that started this war just used all flag kissing, anthem saluting patriots like yourself, and the victims of 9/11. Try to get this into your brain. The Bush administration used one of the greatest tragedies in American history to start a war for profits. You think not saluting when the anthem is played is bad? How about wiping their butts with our flag and Constitution? Because that is exactly what governor bush and his cronies did. How utterly unpatriotic is it to use the death of thousands of innocent Americans as an excuse to attack a country that had nothing to do with it. Innocent Americans killed in 9/11 were used to kill more innocent people overseas, so that a group of greedy crooks could steal oil and get even richer. Does this kind of stuff bother you Patriot Dave? How do you live with yourself?

Musafir--I do not need nor does my Son need your praise as I for one know there were WMBs but when your brother mulims come to take over, please call alah, not a soldier and you need to continue to feel lucky that I don't know where you are ---you have a good day now, ya hear

Azlandowner, first of all you make it look like it's a war to prevent Muslims from conquering the United States. Not a single Muslim nation is capable of doing it. Therefore your "don't call for soldier's help when Muslims take over" argument is dumb. Secondly, if such an invasion does happen then your son will be justified to fight. Because that would be a fight for freedom, democracy, and salvation of this country. I will support him wholeheartedly and will fight for this country myself. But do not expect me to support your son when he is fighting and killing for profits of a bunch of scumbags who used the deaths of thousands of Americans to justify an illegal war. And thirdly, there were no WMDs in Iraq. None were found. You can say that you know there were WMDs but unless there is evidence you have no case here. Bush said there were WMDs and none were found. Bush said Iraq had a hand in 9/11, and no proofs have been found. Thus, he lied to us all and started an illegal war. If you support this war you are either a moron or an immoral bastard. A group of people did 9/11, and you support bombing a country who had nothing to do with it as a retaliation. That makes you an immoral scumbag. Punishing someone for a crime he did not commit is immoral and is also a crime. You support it? Shame on you.

@ Musafir:

Before calling anyone who supported our actions in Iraq as a moron or immoral let's tone down the anger.

Hold off on calling the intelligence failure about 9/11 was all President Bush jr. President Clinton during his administration failed three times to act to take out Bin Laden when we knew exactly were he was and had operators on the ground ready to open fire. But.... more worried about public poll numbers he said "no". Gutted overseas collection capabilities and pretty much the US was dependent on foreign allies for intelligence. Our "yellow cake" piece was not found by US analysts it was handed to our intelligence community from European sources for which both France and Germany believed the exact same thing. It is documented and well described in several books.

Saddam did use chemical weapons against the Kurds in 1988. Saddam did use massive chemical artillery barrages against Iranian troops during the 1980-88 Iran/Iraq War. The bulk of Iraqs chemical and biological program was of former Soviet design and military doctrine. The prefered method was artillery shells by Russian made 152mm heavy arty pieces. Soviet and Chinese made shells. Large portion of Russian military liasion officers and training. Not as much US support as always pushed by the "anti-US" crew.

You are basing the idea that Saddam's controlled Iraq had zero CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radioactive, and Nuclear) weapons. Remember that we had about 6 months of United Nations stalling and preventing which allowed mass convoys of vehicles to drive out of several key Iraqi military ammunition supply points as well as questionable Saddam government locations. Truck loads of material was drove off into Syria which Syria has now an immense stockpile of offensive chemical and biological weapons? It was a little more than Saddam's bank accounts, clothes, and favorite VCRs and DVD collection.

While Saddam had nothing to do directly with the 9/11 attacks he had supported at least two known Al Qadia cells operating in Northern Iraq. Go luck up the former Ansar al-Islam and see that prior to 9/11 it was a terrorist cell which was supported by AQ. Saddam allowed this structure to operate freely so long as they made attacks against Iraqi Kurds who were then associated with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP). Both of these political groups had a well armed and standing militia units which had been engaging the Iraqi Northern Army (Mosul and Kirkuk) since NATO set up the air controlled security zones after the first Gulf War. Was that pretext to invade Iraq? No. But once you crossed the border it was a done deal. You can attempt to go back and make Tuesday armchair quarterback ideas of "could have/should have/would have", but we were there and at the time our biggest mistake was not seeing the serious tribal differences and Islamic beliefs between the Sunni, Shi a, and Kurdish. If you want to get into where we went "wrong" during our involvement in Iraq I can go that route too, but that is another thread.

Chemical weapons were out there because insurgents had this strange ability to keep on using them as make-shift IEDs which would not go off because an artillery shell with bio-chemical substance has only a small explosive charge to set the shell casing off. The round must spin to mix and make the substance much more effective, but again and again rounds were being blown up which caused the sensors to go off and EOD teams would then request NBC teams to recon and preform clean the area to avoid civilian and service members death.

Iran is supporting insurgents in Afghanistan and heavily supported insurgents in Iraq. Iran has been involved in a "proxy-war" against the US since 2003. The Iranian backed "Badr Corps" rolled into Southern Iraq just passed An Nasiriyah and Al Basrah and set up shop. Iranian backed Iraqi political and law enforcement officials have allowed massive amount of modern weapons, explosives, and personnel to move freely into Iraq. It was direct Iranian leadership to include the senior religious clerics which openly baced Muqtadah Al Sadr to counter Al Sistani's push for a peaceful transition away from US involvement. Sadr sought immediate conflict and began to arm, train, and pay 10,000 plus criminals made into the "Mahdi Army". All funded through Tehran.

Seriously, do we want to discuss Afghanistan? Afghanistan will remain in chaos so long as Pakistan's fear of India over-powers it's common sense factor. Pakistan needs to keep Afghanistan in chaos. because without the flow of billions of dollars of heroin, opium, and narcotics sales and a unlimited supply of Wahhabist based doctrine males seeking to carry on th jihad tradition, and a location where trained terrorist can carry out attacks in India and spread the good word of through the use of fear, dismemberment, rape, and beatings then Pakistan will need the Afghans.

Who is gaining a higher percent of profit right now in Afghanistan? It's not US owned businesses. Pakistan, China, and corrupt Afghans are making millions. China is already setting up front business companies seeking to purchase at extremely low prices much of Afghanistan's mineral deposits. You don't see US companies in Iraq either. Iraq's oil infra-structure is in serious need of upgrade and repair. Who had new contracts with Saddam prior to the start of OIF? France had a huge oil contract to gain siginifcat control over the Al Basrah oil fields. Russia, China, North Korea, Germany, Yugoslavia, and several other European countries had billions owed still with Saddam's retro-fitting and upgrading his most loyal military units. Who was blocking US intervention: China & Russia. Who was holding the largest anti-US rallys during that election time frame: France & Germany. Why? Maybe because if Saddam was removed then those billions in unpaid checks would be voided off. Who was supplying arms and new anti-tank missiles to Saddam 3 weeks before OIF: the Russian Federation.

You can blame the US for all the world's troubles but look at the bigger picture before saying we are all morons. Plenty of books out there concerning Iraq if you want a list on future readings.

Musafir, you can't prove Iraq or any other Arab nation wasn't involved in 9/11. So there we are at a stand still!!!!! And by the way all that oil we received from Iraq is really helping us, almost 5.00 a gallon, just loving it things are just great with a no backbone president.

cschiltion, just because it cannot be proven that Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11 does not mean it can be punished for 9/11. Your argument makes no sense. Are you saying we need to be at war with every Arab nation that cannot prove it wasn't involved in 9/11? If we follow the same logic you can be found guilty in the murder of O.J. Simpson's wife and boyfriend. Does not matter if you had no motif, or that you did not know the victims. Unless you have proofs that you were not involved in their murder you are guilty and should be executed. I know it is painful for you to know that the country you perceive as a knight in shining armor can attack other countries unjustly. But it is a fact. And as far as oil from Iraq not helping you and the gas prices still being high: Who said it is supposed to help the American people? Who said this war is for oil for American people? It is for profits of very few individuals, not your well being. So you will continue paying whatever price they want you to pay while your sons will bleed and die for their profits. Congratulations.

Mac nice job describing Saddam's use of chemical weapons and support of certain terrorist groups. It raises a few very important points though: 1). Whose ally Saddam was when he used those weapons against Iranian troops and Kurdish insurgents? 2). If we punish Saddam for supporting a few terrorist cells how about charging our politicians with support of terrorism. Saddam supported a few groups, while U.S. built and financed religious schools and training camps the Taliban came out of. American taxpayers paid for construction of training camps and extremist Deobandi madrasssas in Pakistan. This schools produced the Taliban. Our country is Taliban's father. How about punishing those involved in this shameful act? Let's see Kissinger on trial. Let's see Donald Rumsfield charged with support of terrorism. If we are serious about this war on terror and taking out all supporters of terrorism why don't we start from our own home. After all, it is our politicians that fathered the Taliban - one of the most notorious modern terrorist groups. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. Our country can do no evil. It is perfect. Our cause is always noble, our flag is always high, our troops are always moral and only kill the bad guys, there are no special interest groups pulling the strings, our politicians are ALWAYS honest... God, don't you guys see that blindly believing all this and supporting our country no matter what is not patriotic at all. If our country is committing crimes going against everything that our founding fathers believed in it is our duty to stop it, not support it. Just because you love your country and flag and salute when your anthem is played does not mean that you should turn a blind eye every time something bad is committed by our politicians or our troops. What kind of patriots are you if you believe that everything is fine and dandy when it is not? We invaded a sovereign nation based on a lie, left thousands upon thousands of dead bodies of innocent people, secured oil profits for a bunch of criminals in business suits, and pulled out leaving a once stable nation in a state of civil war. And you see nothing wrong with it because it is unpatriotic to see evil committed by our nation. I guess you are the same people who thought that My Lai massacre during the Vietnam war was justified or never happened. How could American troops just massacre Vietnamese women and children? It is impossible. Our boys are fighting for freedom and thus cannot physically commit atrocities. They are doing their job, and we should be grateful even when they massacre civilians or take pictures with body parts or pee on the dead. They are noble knights no matter what. And if they did kill those people, its no big deal. Those are brown people from other countries and have no souls. It's ok to kill children abroad if it makes America safe... Some of you people are truly disgusting.

It appears that your insight is merely spouting that the rest of us have no clue to the situation in the Middle East, let alone the vast complex issues concerning it. I wrote a very detailed assessment to counter your arguements or claims but for some reason the system did not work? I will say that your assessment about US taxpayer money building madrassas and mosques in Pakistan was incorrect. Saudi Arabia and the inner workings of their controlled international islamic charaties provided mass funding, training, and islamic instructors as "liasions" to Pakistan. The majority of state run mosques and islamic schools were provided through Saudi funds and Saudi supporters. Once again President Zia's own Chief of Staff said, "if Zia could bring in the Saudi desert sands he would have done so, that is how much influence and favor Saudi Arabia had in our country." I will respond with a list of books and novels which provide much more insight and accurate descriptions than the text book or lecture hall that some may find themselves stuck in with the only sound of "American imperialism, America is evil, all the evils of the world is based on American intervention...." Where to begin? I would say research the topic before making brash statements. You want to discuss Iraq? Fine with me. Been there several times and did the work up during 2002. Look forward to hearing your side of the story.

Sure money to was provided by the Saudis. But it was U.S. that funneled money to Pakistan through Saudi Arabia. General Zia ul-Haqq (I refuse to call him president. Zulifqar Ali Bhutto was an elected president, Zia was just a murderer) was a close U.S. ally. Hmm, a main source of extremists, hate filled interpretation of Islam is Saudi Arabia - our close ally. A country Taliban came out of is Pakistan - our close ally at the time. And when these Wahhabi fanatics kill several thousand innocent Americans on 9/11 we don't go after the source and instead frame Iraq - a secular, non-Islamist nation. We did invade Afghanistan too, that was good. Still no reason to stay in Afghanistan. Bin Laden is dead, Taliban regime overthrown, time to pull out. Why isn't United States going after the source of Wahhabi ideology, a source that provides huge sums of money to Jihadi extremists around the world - Saudi Arabia? I'll tell you why. United States wants Jihadi extremists to exist. We know that Jihadi rebels don't have enough power to destroy or defeat American military power. So they are not really a threat. But they are a very convenient boogeyman. They replaced what Russians used to be. A communist menace was an image of an enemy for years, serving as an excuse to scare the American population and invade sovereign nations that dared to speak up against greedy U.S. corporations. Now that Soviet Union is gone a new enemy is needed. And this new enemy is perfect. It cannot collapse like the Soviet Union. And it cannot destroy the U.S. with nukes like the Soviet Union. The new enemy is this shadowy terrorist figure. Now we can keep the citizens scared and obedient so that they don't speak up when we strip away their freedoms, and invade other nations when it suits our interests. I wouldn't be surprised if U.S. actually funds the Jihadis. This enemy is so perfect that if it did not exist, there would be a need to create it:) Hey we funded the Soviets after the Bolshevik revolution. Imagine that, a communist regime takes over the largest country in the world and officially declares that all capitalist nations are the enemy and all the rich are an enemy. And then the largest capitalist nation in the world (U.S.) goes ahead and sponsors this communist regime. Sends them huge sums of money in gold thus saving the commies from economic collapse, builds factories in Soviet Russia. So it wouldn't be the first time we sponsored our "sworn enemy". Our elite needs the Jihadis.

Are you talking about the fall of the Soviet Union and the massive amount of money that was sent to Russia? Yeah, that was basically to ensure that the former Soviets didn't sell one of their thousands of small, medium, and large nuclear warheads to some wanna be jihadist. We had more worries that Yuri the Russian military guard getting paid $30.00 dollars a month in sub-standard housing might look the other way when some shady character appears with a suit case full of US dollars and a means to leave the country if he just looks the other way while they browse the nuclear warhead storage sites. We gave billions of dollars to the broken Russian bear in hopes somehow that the influx of cash would increase the chances of jump-starting a "democratic" and friendly towards the US Russia. But instead we saw the re-birth of the new Soviet Union with the new title of "Russian Federation" where former KGB players became politicians and the old Soviet era high ranking members became overnight capitalist with tons of cash to spend on business ventures. To say that the US was a "sucker" is an under-statement and we see the results of our "mutual friendship". Russia had the cash and backing to search for new oil revenue and the removal of communism allowed Russia to export tons of natural resources across Europe for immediate cash.

Is the Wahhabist doctrine still a threat against the United States? Of course it is. Better yet, any radicalized form of religion to include Islam that favors such extremes to secure it's "religious purity" should be deemed a threat. When the rest of the Middle East begins to out-shout the nutcases then the popular vote within the U.S. would shift their attention to something else. But the Middle East fails in that department. If you clicked on Al Jzaeria and watched the Arabic version vs the English version you see a vast difference in coverage and opinionated commentary. If those media outlets such as Al Jazeria and Al Arabiya would cover the entire story instead of the anti-west, anti-US, and anti-Israel rhethoric then maybe you might see change within the average Arabic voice. Instead we still get the hot-head Imans whose only requirement is to denouce Israel and US intervention. Why is it that the Middle East can remember clearly the acts during the various stages of the "Crusades" yet forget how did these boundries originally start? Who put them their? It wasn't the US after post-WW1. President Wilson had little to no input on the acts of France and the United Kingdom. But yet go ask an Iraqi, Egyptian, Syrian, etc about the Sikes-Picot treaty and people look confused? Maybe if the Arabic community would research say past 1960s and look throughout history they might find that the United States has not been the sole "great Satan" as made out to be.

The United States was in over our heads and our ability to see the larger picture when it came to Islam during this time span. I think that was our biggest failure as to understand the region and know who is who and what were those Iman's preaching for years and years before anyone connected the dots and understood what the message being sent out was not favorable to the Soviet Union no more than it would be favorable to the US a few years later. The focus was too short term and not long term reprecussions. We had good intentions but the follow through was terrible and that alongside the extreme budget cuts which followed the end of armed operations lead to multiple power struggles for control over an already broken country. Now you add years of zero educational advance, generations of people unable to read/write, and die-hard tribal structure that still some western and US analysts fail to understand. Years of conflict, tribal issues, land issues that date back before Christ, etc, makes Afghanistan one of the world's most difficult places to bring into the 21st century.

Our involvement in Pakistan through "General Zia" was based on their request to do something about the influx of refugees which were clogging their border regions in what is now the FATA (Federal Administered Tribal Area) aka "Pakistan-Taliban supported-Taliban friendly"area. The focus was to inflict a strategic failure on then the Soviet Union (post-Vietnam era). Meaning that there were many still feeling the sting of our recent withdrawl from South Vietnam and the North's ability to re-unification which was supported by the Soviet Union. The US placed arms, ammunition, and money to Pakistan for the dispersement to various Mujhadeen factions. The bulk were ear-marked to those most radical and those that could be controlled and maintained by Pakistan intelligence field officers and military advisors within the ISI. US advisors were limited in meeting the key tribal leaders and factions who were operating against the Soviets. It was told to maintain a "hands off" approach to ensure that the Saudi government was providing the dollar for dollar in funding. Soviet losses in aircraft, helicopters, armor, and troops began to rise and conflict between local Afghan forces supported by the Soviets and their advisors were also on the rise. "Charlie Wilson's War" gives you about 1/100th of the story and base line on the overall Afghan-Soviet conflict. I would strongly advise you picking up "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll. Much more detailed written about the Afghan situation and civil war that followed the removal of Soviet forces. We agree in this point that the US should have been better off in supporting India than Pakistan. But if you look at a larger picture, China was at odds with India over several border clashes and military engagements during Mao's last years in control. Pakistan was favored by China. Russia favored India and at that time the US and China were more friendly as tensions between China and Russia were just as high as Russia and the US. India would have been a better ally than Pakistan since India has no affection for the Wahhabist doctrine or beliefs and has dealt with the actions of dozens of terrorist attacks carried out by jihadists who were trained during the Soviet-Afghan conflict. The US had to demand to Pakistan to get control of their "religious advisors" who were armed and "preaching" the doctrine and belief all the way up towards Central Asia and causing several communities of Urghas (Chinese-Muslims) to revolt against the government. Except the Chinese government just went in and leveled the entire grid square with no questions asked. Tajikistan, Izbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, and Krygyzstan witnessed a rise of radicalism in a very short time frame, especially after the fall of the Soviet Union. These areas that had once been controlled by the Russians and such religious direction had been heavily supressed was now open for business to radicalization. Look at the rise of the IMU (Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan) and it's connection with Al Qadea for an example. Read "Jihad" Rise of militant Islam in Central Asia, by Ahmed Rashid to get a better perspective.

True. Didn't the cops that took down Pablo Escobar take pics with his dead body?

Because it has been done before doesn't make it right. It wasn't a good choice then and it isn't a good choice now.

I care. To behave honorably is something to be valued.

Who cares? These photos are two years old says SECDEF?? If someone is dumb enough to blow themselves up, they shouldn't care what happens to their body parts. This is no big deal. Spread the good word around. I've seen photos of what the Taliban did to US soldiers, so why should we get upset about this? Get real. This is war. This is a great morale lifter. Why should the Taliban have all the fun after all? I won't lose a minute's sleep over them taking this picture. If a fool wants to blow themselves up, why can't we take a picture of them after to show them off to the rest of the world? After all, they sooo deserve it. The kit gloves are off in war and if you can't handle the tough stuff, don't look at the pictures. This isn't Emily Post time and it's past time some people realized it.

It'd be so much more reputable if it was from the "fair and balanced" Fox News ::sarcasm::

At least Fox News CAN SPELL, LOL

Oh give it a rest already!

Stick with Fox or Al Jazeera. They always tell the complete truth and they never lie, right? So why the hell do you subject yourself to this outrage at MSNBC? Because you love to bitch? Or because you're just too paranoid to know the difference?

Our adversaries show NO quarter, even to non-combatants, just ask Danny Pearl, Hi def video of his beheading....we should stick the head of every enemy KIA and jam it on a pike outside our firebase.

this ain't tee ball where every kid plays and no one keeps score

What our enemies do is what they do. What we do is what should matter.

We have a lot of rights. How we use them is a statement of who we are and what we stand for. It is the irresponsible use of freedoms that causes more of our brave young people to die. Good judgment is also a right.

Ted: "The point is that this has always happened since the Civil War! Get real !"

Just another great argument AGAINST war. Thank you!

About time we evolved, don't you think?

thanks for the levity in this overblown situation!

javondure just like the pictures and video of these same people beheading an American Soldier or a independent contractor I guess that is acceptable to the Afghan people I did hear about outrage and them going out and attacking the Taliban no it only is a problem when an American does it to them, this way they can collect more money from us. This is not an issue the journalist are just upset that they were not the ones taken the pictures.

Javondure: "So when Mr. and Mrs. Doe from Utah see a pic of an Afghan soldier with their dead son. make sure you tell them, don't get be upset. It's just a trophy pic."

EXCELLENT POINT! Thank you for pointing out the logic and rationale behind all this: "they do it too" b.s.

Pretty clear why unemployed is unemployed. Pfffft.

javondure

For all you posters who find nothing wrong with this, don't get mad when an Afghan soldier takes a pic of our soldiers. Because, according to you, it's okay to do these things. So when Mr. and Mrs. Doe from Utah see a pic of an Afghan soldier with their dead son. make sure you tell them, don't get be upset. It's just a trophy pic.

I don't condone this, but I would bet that they do and proudly show them to their friends too, heck afghans, iraqis, and others, even take videos when they stone people, they're all excited like if they were watching a football match. Just look up Siddqa and Khayyam, also in Iraq Du'a Khalil (we edit the worse part of the videos here but it is still gruesome). People around the world take pictures and videos when they take the enemy down, also look up Ghadafi, Mussolini, etc etc. There is also plenty of pictures from WW1, WW2, and other wars.

Also note that those suicide bombers couldn't care less about other people's families.

Anyway I'm sorry but I feel we need to give our soldiers a break, and those pictures don't "shock" me as they should I guess. While I agree that taking pictures with dead enemies is not right, I think they live in hell right now, and things like that are bound to happen.

besides....they could make some extra cash back home enlarging the picture and making posters out of them.

Seriously?

How many posters of dismembered bodies should we deliver to your house? After all, you're the one championing the use of death to turn a profit.

Wait a minute. Aren't you damning this site for using this to push their agenda? How is that any different than you glorifying death to try to make a buck?

What kind of "man" are these that society looks up to and calls hero?

More of a man than you will ever be.

More of a man than you will ever be.

Thank goodness. I'm a woman.

See what going off half-cocked gets you? I rest my case and move along. There is no point in trying to talk to warmongers.

One thing is very certain here, with the many Americans sharing just such a self-righteous, uninformed idiology as you, and the namby-pamby attitudes of many of our politicians, like Ron Paul and Obama, it won't be long before you will experience the truth of war, first hand! These holier than thou attitudes will then vanish faster than the dew at sunrise!

Patter: "More of a man than you will ever be.

Thank goodness. I'm a woman.

See what going off half-cocked gets you? I rest my case and move along. There is no point in trying to talk to warmongers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Patter, yes, it's terribly sad and very upsetting. Our grandfathers were better men than this. You are so correct re: WWII heros--now listen to the BS spouted by so-called "men" on this site. I, too, will be moving right along after this post.

I had hoped that possibly pointing out some truths and once-held "American values" might at least give some of these fools cause for pause. But no, it only serves to drive them deeper into their close-minded ignorance.

God bless you, Patter, and God help us all. Thank you for providing a glimpse into reason (if only for a brief moment). Shine on!

Ted: "These holier than thou attitudes will then vanish faster than the dew at sunrise!"

With an attitude like that, let's just worship Satan and go straight to hell (or are we half way there already?)

@ErinsFire and Patter;

First Patter, what is a justifiable war to you? My grandfather fought in WWII, when my dad came of age, joined the Army to fight in Vietnam and came back from two straight tours, he shared stories with my father. Just like I wrote to ErinsFire about what we did in WWII, is no different then what we are doing now. But Erin doesn't like the facts that all of it is the same, only difference is in todays world everything is out in the open. But if you look at the facts, our greatest generation from WWII that includes my grandfather would survive these wars, technology is different and back then we were fighting a civilized europe nation and a civilized asian nation (not civilized concerning battle tactics), it was a pure ground war, an enemy you can spot, an enemy that faces you face to face, army to army. Not these cowards that I and my men have fought. Also Patter WTF would you know about Vietnam? Saying all that crap about soldiers back then, see I would love to see some of you worthless hippies from back then do the crap you did to men like my father, Heros that served their nation proudly, and try to do it to me coming home, spit on me throw stuff at me, because you would get a first hand experience of what a soldier with combat fatigue will do to your ungrateful waste of an American rear end. So I believe it is fools like you and Erins here that need to pause and see, what my grandfather did and fought for, the same crap was going on, that happened in Vietnam, and happening today. So I truly hope by you calling out in your words the so called "men" posting on here, when some of us have served multiple deployments, you grow a pair and say this crap to one of our faces, also would love to see you see that crap to the women that are our wives, girlfriends, mothers, grandmothers, because if you for one second think what I'd do to you would be horrible, you got another thing coming. So please allow me to finish this and send you away with some advice. Soldiers and Patriots are the same, at least we have the back bone to go and serve our Great Nation, that once again would be here without the Soldiers and Patriots of the past. So if a day comes where you must seek out us soldiers for help, protection, and service please don't, don't wast our time in trying to save worthless persons like you. We'll be too busy trying to keep the real Americans safe.

"worthless persons, real Americans"

Give me break. How self righteous are you?

Most of the men in my family were soldiers, sailors, what have you, all the way back to WW1. I would think they would strongly disagree with your rant about Americans being worthless or not "real Americans". They had honor and respect for all - even the ones who don't condone war, the warmongers, the over-zealous soldiers and all the rest.

I guess your post is just another "beat my chest" post.

@Yourekidding

WOW??? I guess you read a post even if it is directed at someone for their comments about soldiers, like my father and I and all the ones he and I served with, and then try to come at that person. I'm not self righteous, I actually stand on the front lines to protect my fellow Americans rights, but as a soldier enough is enough when you have sorry people like the ones my comments were posted toward, that insult and not see the fact that in every war dating back to our Revolution, which my family line fought in and every war after that, soldiers did and will do these kind of things. That's great then men in your family did serve, but to say what happens now never happened back then, then you are kidding yourself. Read some history, read some of my comments, stating just a few things our greatest generation of this country other then our founding generation did, but yet they are looked at as heros, no one complained, no one dared say anything. But now, we soldiers are in the same situation, a more confusing combat environment, and when actions like this happen, we are monsters, evil, make everyone look bad, we have no pride or honor. I will stand by the side of my fellow soldiers anyday, anytime, anywhere, before I stand by the side of an ungrateful person that has nothing but unwarranted things to say about them and I.

I will stand by the side of my fellow soldiers anyday, anytime, anywhere, before I stand by the side of an ungrateful person that has nothing but unwarranted things to say about them and I.

I am sick to death of war and warmongers. Period.

Well, as long as politicians need a bump in the polling numbers our troops will continue to be used in foreign excursions.

Gotta look tough in order to pander to voters...........

CPO Sharkey - no doubt correct just too bad their isn't a law that forces politicians' first born child to serve in the front lines of any war supported by their old man/woman! That would tend to level the playing field just a bit.

Your comment just leaves me sitting here shaking my head.

You really can't see the difference between the citizens of a country celebrating the death of enemy soldiers who have invaded their country and slaughtered them with pictures taken of civilians we have slaughtered in their own country?

And you say you're sure these civilians were shot at, "probably" with good reason, but that doesn't give them any right to take what you call a "trophy photo" of a dead invader?

Your myopia borders on pathology.

patter123 since you claim to be a women, I believe that every person should serve in the military (man or women) so they can see the sacrifice's that have been made for them by the previous group of military personal. When you serve your country then you may have a right to criticise. The fact is there is no difference between them taken pictures and our military taken pictures. So by your logic when we convict the enemy responsible for 911 then we can burn them to death take video and celebrate since they were in our country to do us harm. Why don't you pack up and move to Afghanistan since you seem to understand them so well and everyone of them is a civilian not that the enemy uses them for shields and the so called civilians let the them.

You need to realize its suicide bombers, not citizens, but I agree with you that they have the right to be happy when we have gone to brutal extents in their country. We should have been out along time ago, but the issue at hand is biased stories coming from MSN/MSNBC and other sources keeping stupid people on one path. These photos were taken, it can't be undone, but we can make sure people know it isn't one sided.

Hey Patter123,

I remember a bunch of Iraqi kids dancing on a disabled Bradley Fighting Vehicle with their parents and an Al Jazeera camera man filming it when a Hell Fire Missile came in to destroy the Bradley. Last thing the camera man said was, "I think I am dying". Yup, he did along with all the little dipsticks and their parents.

I still laugh about that today. Sometimes war is a bitch AND it really is good for cleaning up the gene pool.

Thanks, you really got a good laugh out of this "invader".

MoSInEUR

As they say, timing is everything

patter123

Your comment just leaves me sitting here shaking my head.

You really can't see the difference between the citizens of a country celebrating the death of enemy soldiers who have invaded their country and slaughtered them with pictures taken of civilians we have slaughtered in their own country?

You do realise those suicide bombers in the pictures also slaughtered their own citizens right?

And no I don't see the difference, what's the difference? everyone is celebrating the death of the enemy, including in the picture on top of this page.

And those soldiers you say have "invaded their country and slaughtered them" have in fact been as careful as they possibly could to avoid collateral damage, in fact they often babysit and help the civilians. You think the Taliban and other insurgent groups care about their own citizens? not so much, they use civilians as shields, they use their houses knowing they put said civilians lives in danger, they even put bombs on their own fellow citizens doorsteps. Also ask the women who can study and practice sports because of those soldiers whom you say have "invaded their country and slaughtered them". I also suggest you go ahead and do your research about the history of Afghanistan, you might be surprised when you realise how many people were killed every year, due to the attacks of insurgent groups hostile to each other, long long before 2001.

Keep shaking your head, maybe it will wake you up and you will see the reality.

Mainly what I'm saying is this: no I don't think its really ok to take pictures like that, but give them a break, they are in hell right now, when you are in a situation as the one they are in right now, you tend to think differently then when you are in a war free country, sitting comfortably in your chair, typing a message on your computer.

Anyways, time to bring the troops home and God bless them.

Both the U.S. and Afghan government are a bunch of A-Holes' !!!...Why isn't anyone condemning the suicide bombers or the Taliban for beheadings killing civilians, and other human rights atrocities ? How about the Afghan soldiers turning their weapons on U..S. troops that are training them. I don't know why it's o.k. to have a war where we drop bombs and shoot people but to pose for as picture it's the end of the world. There has been fighting in Afghanistan for 2,000 years and the place is still we're not making significant progress considering it's been 10 years. It's time we go all out and do a major offensive across the country or we start bringing home the troops.

Celebrating the sucess of a mission or pravailing in a firefight is far different than celebrating the death of the enemy. Celebrating the death of anyone other than the terminally ill is in poor taste at best. Celebrating the living--those that have survived is a far better choice. Take pictures of the living and leave the body parts alone.

Serve in combat then Talk, You change in combat that is why we have PTSD. I know I am a VN Vet, walk through the jungle and see your own hanging in a tree with their arms and legs cut off. or worse. I don't care what our troops do as long as they come home alive.

Ed...Some of our troops have PTSD because of what they have done or were forced to do rather than what they saw. Why isn't it ok to care about what our troops do AND want them home safely? They need to end this no win war and bring them all home. Thank you for your service and the sacrifices that you and your family made to protect our country. War does change a person...Some, who serve with honor and courage, it changes them for the better. They appreciate what we have and are so much wiser and see that the world is a dangerous place. No one has to take photos of body parts and turn into a maniacal animal...no matter what they saw. Integrity is of value...keeping it is hard, but worth the effort.

I ddin't catch the soldiers hanging from train trestles or being beheaded...where can I see those pictures?

Just because they do it that makes it ok for our guys too? Do you do dumb things because someone else does...oh wait thats a yes...

Rick: "Just because they do it that makes it ok for our guys too? Do you do dumb things because someone else does...oh wait thats a yes..."

Yes, Rick, just read the majority of these posts and you'll quickly discover that we want to emulate and become just like our enemies. They are our new role models. Yippeeeee!

Crash: " I only wished they had posed while pissing on this trash!"

They already did! You missed it? Oh poor baby! I'll bet you can google and use it to pleasure yourself to sleep tonight.

Actually Crash the picture you're speaking of were civilian contractors there helping our soldiers, they were burned, drug through the streets, then hung while the Iraqis celebrated.

Remember how outraged Americans were? Why would you think other people would not be outraged seeing us do those things?

How come our government is outraged by images like this? The Taliban are barely above animals with their behavior, yet a US soldier who witnesses the action of the Taliban/Terrorists is supposed to grieve over a dead Terrorist? Either let the troops loose on these animals, or pull them out of there and forget about these third world countries.

AMEN!

War is hell! Some of these men and women have been over there for how long now? I say let these big wigs in government ready to condemn these guys go over there and fight for years and see what they become-there is no room for morals in war! If you are going to have wars-don't judge the people you have doing the killing for you-especially when the primary reason we are fighting this war is over oil-nothing else-it is not terrorism-it is OIL! Where are the morals in that?

And then what? We have become that which we detest? That is a good idea? Why would that be a good idea?