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Subscribe to RSSIndia announced the successful test launch of a new nuclear-capable missile that would give it the ability to strike the major Chinese cities of Beijing and Shanghai for the first time. Msnbc.com's Dara Brown reports.
Updated at 3:45 a.m. ET: India test-fired a nuclear-capable, long-range missile capable of reaching deep inside China and Europe Thursday, television stations showed, putting the emerging Asian power into an elite club of nations with intercontinental nuclear defense capabilities.
A scientist at the launch site said the launch was successful, minutes after television images showed the rocket blasting through clouds from an island off India's east coast.
Footage showed the rocket, with a range of more than 3,100 miles, blasting through clouds from an island off India's east coast. The defense minister said the test was "immaculate."
"Today's launch represents another milestone in our quest for our security, preparedness and to explore the frontiers of science," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said in a congratulatory message to the scientists who developed the rocket.
The Agni-V missile is expected to become fully operational as early as 2014 after several more tests, The Times of India reported. It has a range of more than 3,100 miles, according to a BBC report.
Named after Hindu god of fire
The LA Times reported that the 50-ton, 55-foot three-stage rocket is named after the Hindu god of fire. However, it said the missile had been dubbed the "China killer" by the Indian press.
The launch, which was flagged well in advance, has attracted none of the criticism from the West faced by hermit state North Korea for a failed bid to send up a similar rocket last week.
But China noted the launch with disapproval.
"The West chooses to overlook India's disregard of nuclear and missile control treaties,'' China's Global Times newspaper said in an editorial published before the launch, which was delayed a day due to bad weather at the test site.
RNGS / Reuters
"India should not overestimate its strength,'' said the paper, which is owned by the Chinese Communist Party's main mouthpiece the People's Daily.
Fast emerging as a world economic power, India is keen to play a larger role on the global stage and has long angled for a permanent seat on the Security Council. In recent years it has emerged as the world's top arms importer as it upgrades equipment for a large but outdated military.
"It is one of the ways of signaling India's arrival on the global stage, that India deserves to be sitting at the high table," Harsh Pant, a defense expert at King's College, London, said, describing the launch as a "confidence boost."
NATO said on Wednesday it did not consider India a threat. The U.S. State Department said India's non-proliferation record was "solid,'' while urging restraint.
Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
Why do they need this capability? I think we need to implement sanctions and enforce them to be consistent with our foreign policy.
Do as we say not as we do? btw shouldn't we have consistent foreign policy first?
Sanctions on Iran are not about nukes. Nukes are only an excuse to put economic sanctions on competitors of Zionist bankers (aka slave runners) so that they may not prosper and show the world that an alternative system is possible. Islam is the enemy because it says interest is forbidden. And the rulers of this world do not like that. The matrix is real. World wide slavery of paying interest for money that is created out of nothing continues unchallenged.
They've had this capability for decades along with medium range delivery capability. I suppose you're OK with Iran becoming a new nuclear threat but get bent out of shape when figuring out India has been a nuclear power ... pay attention in history class. This is a non-story and India is one of the few countries we can still consider "friendly" to US interests, next to perhaps Israel so long as Obama doesn't piss them off still further.
Foreign policy??? what foreign policy? All we have presently is some incoherent, convoluted "policy" that goes where the wind blows depending on if Obama needs a poll boost or wakes up on the wrong side of the bed.
Forcing them to be consistent with "our" foreign policy implies that we are gods and world rulers. Perhaps things would be simpler if we were, but that is not the case. We simply have to apply the same standards to all consistently.
Kind of like Iraq, first they are our friend when they are fighting Iran, then they aren't. Or, the US helping Osama set up his training camps during the USSR Afghan war, and then not following through with helping them set up a reliable government afterwards.
India is the worlds largest democracy. People should be more concerned of Communist/Theocratic/Dictatorship countries with missles and nukes. China, Iran, DPRK anyone????
STexan... Were you a fan of Two Pistol W? Let's have a foreign policy of shoot'em first, find out the truth later whilst we ignore Public Enemy Number 1.
Obama's done better than Bush or Cheney, the best the party has put forth as of late.
RP2012 .. Lets elect a safe leader... One with the REPUBLIC for which we stand in his heart... One who wishes to win the world over for us through example of minding our own business... Lets be a country that's creating goods (such as green fuel) in a free "from" government market, and be a population that stays busy tending to liberty and displaying her fruits to the world..
India is one our few true allies and a stable democracy. Their having long range nuclear capable missiles does not represent a threat to the US or any of our allies. In fact, they do not change the threat situation with their one main enemy, Pakistan, because they already had the capability to hit anywhere in Pakistan with their long existing shorter range missiles.
That said, I can not say whether this has any implications for our foreign policy or not because the Obama administration has never had anything even resembling a coherent foreign policy. Obama's foreign policy objectives seem to change with his mood or whatever the latest polls tell him he should be concerned about. This lack of a coherent foreign policy has left our allies guessing and our non-allies laughing at us. It is well past time for Obama to come out and clearly state the foreign policy objectives of his administration in detail, not in meaningless political rhetoric that does not commit him to anything. Hopefully Obama will be out of office soon and we will have a president who will define what we stand for in terms of foreign policy so that our allies know what they can expect from us in the way of support and our enemies know what they can expect if they attack the US or our interests.
Is this the same India where thousands of children die everyday of hunger?
Part of the plan.
If China was sitting on your border, you would also want to be able to deter Chinese over-reach. Why do you think China is upset?
I thought India already had that capability. Well welcome to the club, India!
Steve-2352647
I don't really know about that. Other than Tibet, I don't believe China has over-reached its borders in centuries. In fact, they should be our allies. We saved their arses from the Japanese in WWII, and had we been proactive, they might have developed democracy thereafter and the world would be an entirely different place. Also, they are one of the first countries to decry US involvement in others sovereignty.
America recruits the technological elite from India. I can't see the U.S.A. cutting their nose off to spite their face.
My great uncle served in the Indian army. In 1962, the Chinese attacked India, and in my great uncle's platoon of 30, only 7 men survived the attack. India suffered a humiliating defeat in 1962, lost a lot of land, and lost 3000 good men in that war. Previous to this Chinese attack, the Indian prime Minsiter mistakenly thought of the Chinese as "brothers" of the Indians. That war changed the Indian psyche. As long as a non-democratic China and a nondemocratic Pakistan (which is also a terrorist haven at present) are breathing down India's neck, I support India's right to any nuclear or missile technology it wants. The day both China and Pakistan become democratic countries is the day I will no longer support Indian missile tests - only when China becomes a democracy can India feel safe. Democracies don't attack other democracies.
From a realpolitik perspective, we don't want anyone to have those kinds of capabilities, be they "friends" or not.
A shift here and there, some increased trade competition, some environmental changes due to global warming or whatever leading to a dearth in resources, and today's friends are the guys tomorrow going: "hold up, aszholes - you're 5% of the global population yet you're consuming half of its energy resources and pumping 40% of its pollution. Screw you - we need some changes"
As a species, we're inevitably screwed so long as nukes and means of delivery exist, let alone proliferate. Humanity's history doesn't inspire a lot of confidence that, sooner or later, something will go belly up and we'll start slinging those things all over the globe at each other like chimps throwing feces at each other. It's just pure luck we haven't done that over the past half century, and the more people joining the nuclear club, the greater the odds of nuclear conflict.
hm-2959564
Color me corrected.
@john - that's a very naive extrapolation of chinese history to their present and future.
@ray - India taught us how to count - otherwise we would all in stone ages. Perhaps if the country where you live stops abating terrorism in India through Pakistan then just a few kids will be able to go less hungry. Some of them may be hungry but all of them feel a little bit safe.
PJ-1795048
What was naive? That after WWII, we could have helped China grow in a different direction? Like we could have helped Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam and saved 100,000 Americans and a million Vietnamese? All they wanted was our help, but instead they got it from the USSR.
http://rationalrevolution.net/war/collection_of_letters_by_ho_chi_.htm
@john - no not the entire thing. Just the statement that other than tibet they never overreached their borders which implied that they may not have intentions to do so in future.
I wouldn't count on that. Chinese have disputes with most countries around them and have by and large sacrificed nothing and gotten everything they wanted.
That may be true. Funny thing, is that they will probably do it smarter, and just buy other countries, like we should have done after WWII. But actually, I think it is only a matter of time until they have a civil war and become democratic as well.
India is a true democracy? What? They still have slaves called untouchables... Nice to see the extreme double standards.
Oh, and so it becomes alright for democratic countries to be armed to the teeth, and when their neighbors starts arming themselves with countermeasures, its acts of agression?
To the original posters comment.
India needs this capability to offset China. If you haven't noticed the little province of Tibet, the Chinese tend to take stuff from other people then proceed to systematically displace, suppress and slaughter them and their culture replacing it with a flood of Han Chinese. And again with regard to History Class as one reply mentioned, China and India have long not liked each other.
Also to another posters comment. The Chinese we saved in World War 2 was the government of Chiang Kai-shek. They fought a civil war with the communist lead by Mao and lost. What is left of them is in the nation of Taiwan. That's why we're friendly to Taiwan and not to China proper. It's also why we have the 7th fleet patrol Taiwan and offer them protection so the Communist don't try to 'finish' the job.
Christ the sorry state of history today.
"India test-fired a long range missile capable of reaching deep inside China and Europe on Thursday, television stations showed, thrusting the emerging Asian power into an elite club of nations with intercontinental nuclear defense capabilities."
That's funny. I always thought an ICBM was an offensive weapon, not defensive. What do I know?
Stop posting your uninformed nonsense I was on the US Military Teams attached to SAD/SOG during Operation Cyclone and YOU were NOT.
Osama Bin Laden was still living with his Rich Relatives at Saudi Arabia during the USSR 40th Army Occupation forming his Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organization of Al Quada as Anti US, Anti US Ally, Anti US Ally Saudi Arabian Government, etc..
Just like now, you wanted War On the Cheap so of course we abandoned our US Ally the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to get massacred by the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban that had the Full Support of USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran.
hm-2959564 Proved how wrong you are john-737278 do you want me to do the same also about Osama Bin Laden, as well as French Indochina (aka Vietnam) and Ho Chi Minh.
David,
Don't try to give these people history lessons. It's like tossing pearls before swine.
It makes little baby Jesus, Allah, Gaia, Budda, Animal Spirit, or whatever else you pray to, even yourself, (Got to include you atheists in there.) cry.
@AjahnClif: When you're dealing with nuclear detonations the best defense is a good offense.
I take it personal that they sling sh!t and were not involved, making it seem that my Team and I trained (by being on the Teams during Operation Cyclone) Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada or the Taliban.
By the way, before I was given the option of either becoming a US Military Asymmetric Warfare Officer "Middle East" Qualified (first language Farsi, then Arabic College at Egypt, Islam at College Egypt) or Resign my US Military Officer's Commission; I taught Nuclear (Weapons, CNWDI) Physics and was trained on Conventional Munitions, Missiles, Biological (Epidemiology), Chemical (Weapons), A Side Nuclear/Biological/Chemical Control Orders before being assigned to the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF). As to why from previous background (experience) Missiles and Nuclear Weapons are still within my field of experience and expertise.
So actually, I would have to disagree with:
At the same US Military Installation that the School House that I was teaching Nuclear Physics was at, was DARPA's HEL (High Energy Labs), all I can say is it would have been great to be able to kill a missile(s) in the boost phase over the Nation that launched the missile(s)(all the missile fuel, explosives, debris, nuclear contamination, falling all over the nation that launched the missile), a project proven feasible (prototypes) and killed by US Congress (US Congressional Appropriations Committee).
Anything India does, that will stave off radical fascist islam or communist degeneracy is good for the rest of the world
Obama's foreign policy experience, if you want to call it that, was formed during his association with people like Van Jones, Rev. Wright, nation of Islam and other anti American radical left people.
Remember the meeting with Netanyahoo? I have not witnessed the public education of a president like that before... As professionally as possible, Bibby told Obama, “What you want isn’t going to happen, and here’s why. Now what?”
Obama is pretty much ignored when it comes to making decisions by world leaders - the recent Americas summit is another prime example.
Good luck with that, the last time India did that 1940s, the separate (Fundamentalist) Islamic Republic of Pakistan was formed.
Pacifism always loses against guns (after the pacifists are wiped out and those with the guns make laws to have the people forget the pacifist martyrs by renaming them "traitors".). This is why the Liberal, Pro Western, Western Idealism, Pro Modern Islamic Believers aka Sunnis don't have a chance in hades against the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (Shiites, Shia as Shia Law aka Sharia Law) that use Violence, Armed Might, Starvation, Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists, Fundamentalist Islamic Interpretation of Holy Koran (Quran), etc. as weapons; as the Fact is now the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (Shia) are now the Majority to determine what Islam is or is not, due to the attritions of the Sunnis and Overthrow of the Pro US (Pro Western) Sunnis Governments.
now if we can just get them to destroy pakistan, we wont have to worry about afghanistan since the opium would be so radioactive it would only be usable for the japanese or chinese baby formula. then we could stop spending money on israel and let them and iran nuke each other to death since no one gives a @!$%# about sand monkeys except the bush family which is owned by the fake "royal" family now occupying saudi arabia. we could move the israelis to occupy saudi arabia for us and pump the oil while we keep the money china pays for it. then we could contaminate the oil with radiation so by the time they realize it, the chinese and the north koreans would be sterile. half retarded russian whores who are too ugly to be mail order brides could wander into the empty chinese cities and breed with mongol nomads to repopulate the yeti.
It's not if--it's when. Mankind will never be satisfied until the earth is destroyed.
All the money spent on weapons while people starve to death every day. All the scientists studying how to kill more people more effectively while disease flourishes. All the slaughter of women and children over god and oil because that's where the power and money is.
Humans actually murder each other because they disagree about the attributes of an imaginary entity. They murder each other because they disagree about the methods they should use to rule and oppress those living in proximity to them. They murder each other over a goddam parking space.
As a child, I was astounded when I learned there were geographical boundaries between countries. I kept arguing about it, saying there was no boundary, no lines, nothing. I kept pleading with the adults to see the obvious--that it isn't REAL. You take one step and you're in the U.S., you take another step and you're in Canada, but it isn't REAL. It made me feel weird and disoriented for a long time. I just couldn't relate to "reality."
I still can't. I guess I'm insane.
Most presidents don't have any foreign policy experience because it is the president who creates and enforces foreign policy. Obama is doing just fine and never think any American president is ignored by world leaders. We are too big. The Americas summit was a result from a 60 year policy with Cuba not Obama. They want to include Cuba and America won't accept that and they won't accept America's position. So in effect Obama wasted his time even going.
david-475776
Granted, Wiki is not always 100% correct, but I think you are wrong. Mujahideen in Afghanistan
"After leaving college in 1979, bin Laden went to Pakistan, joined Abdullah Azzam and used money and machinery from his own construction company to help the mujahideen resistance in the Soviet war in Afghanistan.[71][72] He later told a journalist: "I felt outraged that an injustice had been committed against the people of Afghanistan."[73] Under Operation Cyclonefrom 1979 to 1989, the United States provided financial aid and weapons to the mujahideen[74] through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Bin Laden met and built relations withHamid Gul, who was a three-star general in the Pakistani army and head of the ISI agency. Although the United States provided the money and weapons, the training of militant groups was entirely done by the Pakistani Armed Forces and the ISI.
By 1984, bin Laden and Azzam established Maktab al-Khidamat, which funneled money, arms and fighters from around the Arab world into Afghanistan. Through al-Khadamat, bin Laden's inherited family fortune[75] paid for air tickets and accommodation, paid for paperwork with Pakistani authorities and provided other such services for the jihadi fighters. Bin Laden established camps inside Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in Pakistan and trained volunteers from across the Muslim world to fight against the Soviet puppet regime; the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. It was during this time that he became idolised by many Arabs.[76]
Cniht - @AjahnClif: When you're dealing with nuclear detonations the best defense is a good offense.
I was simply making the point that IMHO an "intercontinental nuclear defense capability" seems to me to be an oxymoron; ICBMs by their very nature are offensive. A true defensive missile is an ABM such as the Patriot missile. While one can argue that the presence of nuclear-tipped ICBMs are a deterrant and therefore defensive, the reality is that in the event of a nuclear exchange, there are no winners, only losers. This includes the multitude of nations that are non-combatants and couldn't care less about the dispute leading to war - until it involves them via radiation poisoning.
For those who see India as an ally --- BS. India is considered a "hostile state", a category just short of an enemy. During the Cold War, Britain pressured the US to take sides with Pakistan knowing that it would put the US at odds with India. The result was that India made massive arms purchases from the old Soviet Union and moved roughly as close as Egypt did at the time. The US imposed harsh sanctions which hampered their economy, especially in high-tech areas where India excels because of its high number is scientists and engineers. These sanctions are just now being relaxed. But, officially, India is not a "most favored nation."
And for those who paid attention during the North Korean attempt to launch a satellite: You will notice that the Agni-V is a solid-fueled rocket that is tube-launched and has a wide upper stages and nosecone. A submarine-launched version in the Agni series is expected very soon. Contrast that to the North Koran missile which was liquid-fueled, gantry-launched, and had upper stages that were small in diameter as you went up, ending in a long narrow nosecone. Missiles that will carry warheads tend to be wider and conical so as to accomodate the warhead and its re-entry vehicle shape. Missiles that carry satellites tend to be long and narrow so as to maximize the loft, not caring about re-entry vehicles. Solid fueled missiles can be kept in a ready-to-shoot status for very long periods of time. Liquid fueled missiles muct be assembled, brought to the launch gantry and then armed and fueled --- a very time-consuming process that gives an enemy plenty of opportunity to make a pre-emptive strike.
And for the political analysis: India hates China and Pakistan very badly and has fought modern wars with both and they're pretty suspicious of Bangladesh. But India wants to be in the nuclea club for the "right" (not my definition) reasons. They realize that nukes are the weapons of losers and have only two legitimate uses, a) to guarantee that any country attacking them will pay a heavy price if they use nukes, and b) to carry out that final retaliatory death-rattle strike if they were to be losing against a country like China. This is the difference between a "strategic" defense posture and a "tactical" defensive missile like the not-all-that-great Patriot.
Where's the outrage? This rogue nuclear nationrefuses to become party to the nuclear non proliferation treaty and has never allowed inspection of its nuclear facilities.
Moreover, according to almost all experts, together with Pakistan, it is the most likely to use a nuclear weapon of all nuclear countries...primarily because it is engaged in a decades long border standoff with another nuclear country (Pakistan) but does not possess sufficient radar technology to distinguish consistently whether or not a projectile shot across its border is a nuke, a missile or a small aircraft...and, due to the proximity of Pakistan, has a policy of push the button first, ask questions later.
How come our lovely, unbiased news media frames this test (identical to North Korea's last week--but for the fact that it was actually successful while North Korea's was not) as a display of "intercontinental nuclear defense capabilities". Is that responsible reporting?
Oh hypocrisy.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Our foreign policy is so @!$%#ed up.
Be thankful that India is a Democratic nation buddy. They run our call centers unfortunately lol.
Interesting how it all works, isn't it? We truly live in a world of double standards.
That's not even half true. India has allowed inspections for over a decade. India has nuclear treaties with many European countries and the US.
India has a policy of "no first use" you dumb @!$%#, and it has got its own AWACS systems for detection. While we here at home are embroiled in such IMPORTANT /sarcasm/ issues like eliminating abortion, teaching creationism, eliminating women's freedoms, the rest of the world is progressing ahead by leaps and bounds
SJU-RxStudent
This a just a joke. Does that mean if we go to war with India to eliminate their long range capability, I don't have to make my Visa payments?
Oh and that excuses it, "buddy"?
And who's fault is that.
Talking about India (not) signing NPT... Did the U.S. sign CTBT ? STFU !
India is a country with 1B people living next to a neighbor that harbored Osama and another neighbor that is spreading its tentacles all over the world. You expect Indians to sit back and see their security trampled?
Besides just by virtue of 1/6th of humanity doing something - disqualifies your word "rogue". Your definition of "Rogue" will have to be changed if at all you insist on that word.
Actually yes, but it wasn't ratified. The same is true with China. India didn't even sign it.
Great, now Pakistan will follow suit
Reference the NAMES of your so called "experts". You believe that Phased Array Radar is only limited to the US Military that has been around since the Patriot Missile (design: 1969, service since 1981, upgraded to current THAADS).
Stick to your area of expertise being a One-Eyed Undertaker
And the worst part is those naive on Newsvine that voted for your post being too lazy to do the research to find out how WRONG you are.
It seems as if the world powers are intent on reducing the worlds population.
For sure, one requirement for any nation to be an ally of the United States is that it accepts billions of our dollars for its military establishment.
If we were to be attacked, would Pakistan, Egypt, Israel and other so-called allies leap to defend us? How?
After Obama threw Israel under the bus, i doubt any of our allies would help.
One Eye... "it is the most likely to use a nuclear weapon of all nuclear countries..." REALLY!! History 101: Which nation is the only nation to actually use nuclear weapons in the history of the world? Bonuse question!! That same country is now trying to prevent other nations from acquring nuclear weapons? Do you see any hypocrisy in America's views and/or even yours?
India is allied with the US and we would us them as a deterrent to Pakistan - even though we are allied with them, too. They both provide a nuclear deterrent against N. Korea and possibly China.
zkysr
I agree our policies are hypocritical and that's why many nations don't trust and do not like us - but, then again most other countries play the same Chess game - what an F'*#up world we live in!
Justified Defiance... Actually, when America isn't perceived as an "arrogant and/or ignorant" nation we gain more support. Therefore, this notion that “throwing Israel under the bus” is absurd... Here’s something to consider; this nation has been dealing with the Mid-East Peace process my entire life (e.g. 5 decades) and longer with no resolution… At what point do you change course? Why keep wasting valuable resources, time and money on a failed process/policy… And no America's future is not tied to Israel’s success and/or failures… America will be judged for her own deeds…
India has one of the world's largest populations of poor and destitute people on the planet and they are overburdened with them! Instead of spending billions building a stupid, one-shot, ICBM they should be using that kind of money to feed, house, cloth, build hospitals and schools for the billions of poor that live in their overflowing slums! It might behoove them to earmark some of their newly-made billions to teach their people the meaning of birth control while they are busy spending money on killing machines!
It scares the crap out of me when an 'emerging' nation (though I think that's a rather vague term for a technological rich but culturally poor country) gives way too much thought to blowing other nations up instead of taking care of their own internal problems..
The waste of all that money is just plain sad AND it IS a waste! Billions of dollars for what? For nothing but a chance to 'shake a big fist' at other, more powerful countries! So, I guess we add ANOTHER country to the 'my gun is bigger then your gun' list of card-carrying nuclear nations.. How wonderful!
Susie
"The USA has one of the world's largest populations of poor and destitute (insert uneducated here) people on the planet and they are overburdened with them"... the rest of your post...
Try calling your congressman to complain, and guess where your call ends up. Guessed it right, India.
This world is turning into that movie scene where 10 gangsters are in the same room pointing their guns franticly at all the other ones. I really hope somebody doesn't get macho and get off a "shot" to prove they can...world be damned.
He he 'one-eyed' sounds like a butt hurt Islamist or maybe a Chicom government spokesperson, unlike N. Korea India is a solid Democracy who is not spreading terror all over the world or willfully starving its own people, on the other hand they are right next to a den of Islamist terror who are also nuclear armed, Pakistan, and China makes no secret about its ambitions ('string of pearls') for the Indian Ocean... so yes the media is accurate in portraying this as defensive nuclear technology, since having the best offensive capabilities is the best defense...just ask the former soviets, how the great American president Ronald Reagan brought them down.
If India is going to bomb Pakistan, they don't need long range missiles to do it. So this does not increase the nuclear threat at all.
@Martin - " History 101: Which nation is the only nation to actually use nuclear weapons in the history of the world?"
You know, I'm really tired of people bringing that up. While Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both tragedies of epic proportions, they did serve two purposes.
1) They most likely save a lot more lives than they took. They ended the war without a U.S. invasion of Japan, which probably would have cost at least tens of thousands of American lives. Japanese casualties may have run into millions. I remember watching the World War II in HD series on the History Channel a couple of years ago and the thing that horrified me most was the story of Saipan, where hundreds of civilians hurled themselves off a cliff because the Japanese military had told them that the Americans would abuse them and then kill them anyway. That may have been replayed again thousands of times over if the Japanese invasion transpired.
2) More importantly, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the world's object lessons on just how terrible nuclear weapons really are. Thousands of lives snuffed out in an instant. Thousands more die of radiation poisoning that may take days, months or years, all the time suffering and slowly wasting away. Even our own people and Russian people have had to suffer from our nuclear tests. We now know the destruction and suffering these weapons cause, so there must never be a nuclear war. I read these posts about we ought to nuke this country or that and I just cringe. These people have no idea what they are saying. I'd like them to visit a bombed out site after (God forbid) it happens and see if they still think it is such a good idea.
Bottom line: Yes, the U.S. did use nuclear weapons weapons on Japan 66 years ago before their destructive power was fully understood. You notice we haven't used them since. Nor should anyone else.
Just wanted to bring a couple of points to people's attention.
1. India has a long border with China. China currently control 90,000 square mile of Indian territory since the 1962 war.. For years before the war, between 1947 to 1962 the chinese let India believe that they were India's friends. The newly independent Indian government foolishly believed that and even coined a popular slogan that claimed - hindi cheeni bhai bhai (Indian and chinese are brother). That faith was rudely shattered one fine morning when China attacked India out of blue claiming large swaths of Indian north eastern states as their own. Their justification went back several thousand years when they claimed that the entire Indian north east used to belong to the Hans dynasty and therefore it belonged to them. They have not let go of that claim and it remains the longest running border dispute in the world. In addition they claim large swaths of land from the northern state of Jammu and Kashmir especially the Aksai Chin area which is of unique strategic interest to India because this highest motorable area in the impregnable Himalayas provides unfettered access to the Chinese to Indian mainland.
2. China currently controls almost all the bordering nations of India and has turned them hostile to Indian interest. Most recently they managed to turn the small traditionally democratic monarchy of the hindu nation state of Nepal to a maoist communist stronghold and they also control the government of Myanmar (erstwhile Burma). This in addition to the Chinese being the biggest benefactor of the Pakistanis.
3. China claims complete dominion of the south China sea and has laid claim to all the bounties of this oil and fish rich region to the exclusion of all the other nations that border the south china sea. It has now started extending its control to the southern portions of the Indian ocean just outside of Sri lanka.
So basically the Chinese strategy is clear. They want to surround and strait jacket India from all side and then i believe the final endgame to annex the Indian north east can begin in earnest.
There are People who worried about the Indian poor. Well, due to the last 15 years of double digit economic growth, large sections of Indian societies continue to elevate their status from the poor to the middle class. This momentum is not slowing down but there certainly remains much to be done. However, while feeding its poor, India cannot sit idly and allow its territorial integrity be challenged by its sundry neighbors.
India does not have any expansionist agenda and is quite happy and content with the border that was carved out by the British in 1947. Indians are even willing to let the areas in Kashmir that Pakistan annexed after its illegal attack in 1947 - which they call Azad Kashmir (independent kashmir) remain with the pakistanis and are willing to convert the line of control to international border. But China and Pakistan will simply not let India be. They just want more and more and more of Indian lands.
India has had ICBM capabilities for years. It, after all, is a nation that launches its own polar and geo stationary launch vehicles and satellites. With this recent operationalization of its launch capabilities to ICMB missiles India is putting its neighbors on notice. It is telling them that any further attempts to erode India's territorial integrity will not go un-resisted.
PJ "India is a country with 1B people living next to a neighbor that harbored Osama and another neighbor that is spreading its tentacles all over the world. You expect Indians to sit back and see their security trampled?"
I could easily make that same case for North Korea, which is living next to South Korea, which used to be one in the same, until they joined forces with Evil America, and lost their entire soverignty...and America keeps spreading it's tentacles all over the world, invading...occupying...and forcing those nations to live under our rule of thumb.
You expect North Koreans to sit back and wait for the next time the US decides to invade, occupy, destroy and utterly eliminate North Korea from the map?
Would Americans sit by and let that happen for ANY REASON whatsoever?
no.
NK deserves to have nukes, even if their leader is a nutcase.
Hell, nearly all militaries are operated by paranoid crazies who love death and destruction more than birth and creation.
We tear down, we dont build up...we destroy, we dont restore. We invade and colonize...we spread the disease that is American Arrogance and Greed all over the world....
and I see no reason why any other nation should want the spirtual death we bring.
ajahnCliff "You know, I'm really tired of people bringing that up. While Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both tragedies of epic proportions, they did serve two purposes."
and other nations who we view as "enemies" need nukes to serve purposes too.
mainly, to prevent the US from invading, occupying and ultimately causing a lot of deaths in their lands.
you can understand now why other nations not only SHOULD but DESERVE to have nukes.
WE are the current nation causing lots of deaths, you'd be hard pressed to find another nation that currently holds the same tallys tha we do in Iraq and Afghanistan...
would you want to be the next nation to be invaded, slaughtered and occupied by the americans...for no real purpose, like Iraq was?
Jessica : Are you really American ? Your statements are completely devoid of facts and sound more like islamic propaganda to me.
Oh Really? Spending Billions of dollars just for a show of strength or to make America happy is not WILLFUL? The so called emerging power does not know that it hosts the world's largest number of poors and that about three thousands die each day across the nation due to hunger alone!
They don't need an inter-continental missile to shoot at Pakistan or other "Islamic Terrorist" neighbors in the region for that purpose. Do They?
Yes the same American and Western media which portrays Iran as the biggest threat...Yet Iran doesn't have the nuclear enrichment capability or is far away from achieving it. The same media that completely ignores the Israel's vast nuclear arsenal whereas Israel openly talks of attacking Iran and has a track record of attacking its neighbors unprovoked. The same "defensive nuclear technology" which is bad for Pakistan or Iran to possess but is good for India or Israel to have? I think we all know very well that the Western media is one sided, hypocrite and openly lies, plain and simple!
You've got to be kidding me. We just didn't ratify it?!! Now you're truly splitting hairs. Please explain to all of us how a signed non-ratified treaty carries a greater force of law than an unsigned treaty.
What most of the people commenting on this issue need to know is that India is not a country that goes around threatening other countries, their only problems have been with a country that harbors terrorists and has a population that does not condone terrorism, Pakistan! For some self serving reasons over the years the US government has been a friend and backer of Pakistan even when they have done terrible injustices to our military personnel in the past.
India is not in the same realm with North Korea. North Korea controls it's population so tightly that they receive zero news and have no idea of the day to day issues and happenings in this world! Most the people of North Korea have no clue of the past and how it really was. In their schools the main teachings are how the west is evil.
India is an open society that does not restrict it's population or withhold news from the outside world. The only problem I see with India is the amount of money they put towards the military when they have one of the biggest lower classes that are in need of the basics. Only China has a larger lower class than India which most don't know about because all they hear is how well the upper class is doing.
If you have to pick the country that will have the ability to launch a rocket topped off with a nuclear weapon several thousand miles, which country would be the safest of these to have this ability....India, N Korea, Pakistan or Iran? I'm going with India. The US and the rest of the west have not put up a fuss about this because India has not shown a reason for them to do so.
China complaining about this along with Russia is a joke since India receives almost all it's weapons from both of them and more than likely that's where they got the technology from in the first place.
Nsidd : Let me explain this to you in easy terms so even you can understand it.
See if you are a nation that wants to gobble up the land of other nations then your nuclear designs are considered Offensive - as is the case with Pakistan and China.
Whereas, if you are a nation surrounded by nuclear armed countires that have designs on your land, then your nuclear quest is considered Defensive - as is the case with India.
Hosting the largest number of world's poor does not detract from the fact that since 1947 India has held on to the most cherished principals of Democracy while its neighbors continue to roil in the cesspool of dictatorial military or communist regimes.
As for why India needs ICBMs, you should read my most excellent detailed post in #2.25.
On second thought, can we blame India though? They are surrounded by a evil sphere: Pakistan, Burma, China, all other -stan countries to their north. Iran and Russia aren't too far away either.
Everybody is so worried about India's poor...
Tell me this people. Is India supposed to just concentrate on feeding its poor and say nothing do nothing while Pakistan and China annex its west and east ?
Hmmm ...If that is how it is supposed to be then why is it that you, America, are fighting two wars far away from your homeland while you face the biggest economic downturn in your history and large swaths of your population continues to slide into poverty everyday.
Shouldn't you be feeding them first ?
@AjahnCliff,
Modern military historians would take exception to your characterization of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki weapons.
1) It is a popular myth that these two bombs ended the war. They did not. In fact, the Japanese had little idea what the weapons even were and virtually everyone in the Japanese military and government thought they were just a variant of the fire-bombings that were then on-going.
2) The two bombs we dropped were it. There were no more -- we dropped all we had. The next bomb was a minimum of six months out and it would take two years before 2-a-year production would be improved because the gaseous diffusion process being used was very slow and problem-prone.
3) What ended the war was two things: a) the B-29 under LeMay was finally whipped into some kind of operational shape. Its initial performance factor was under 20% (some say as low as 5%) and LeMay got it up to 80% and was taking it higher. The B-29 was so high and so fast that it was essentially immune to anything the Japanese could launch against it. b) the B-29's and every other aircraft that could reach Japan from Okinawa was engaged in fire-bombing raids that were far, far, far more devastating than the atomic bombs.
4) Fire bombings versus "precision" bombing or area bombing or atomic bombs were much more effective because Japanese war industry and essential commodities production was widely dispersed through residential areas --- immune to both precision bombing and atomic bombs. Their crappy infantry rifle, for example, was made in over 700 different locations. It was rapidly obvious to the Japanese that LeMay's intention was to fire-bomb every city, town, and village into ashes and then start buring the forests. And he had made significant progress in that regard. The pictures of the destruction after fire bombings were far more horrendous than those of the atomic bombs. Thousands of bodies lying in the streets dead without a scratch on them because the fires has sucked all the oxygen up and killed them by axphyxiation.
5) Fire bombs were cheap. Period. And a single a-bomb cost over a half billion dollars in today's dollars.
6) Because of LeMay's success with the firebombing (and the Navy's success in completely eliminating all Japanese shipping including even tiny fishing boats and coasters) the invasion plans that would have been similar to the invasion of Okinawa were already scrapped. Okibnawa had shown military planners just how costly it was going to be. So planners were ready to sit back and give LeMay up to 5 years to reduce Japan to a cinder. Most of the top brass that would have executed the plan (with the exception of the flaky MacArthur) were convinced that the American public would not allow a massive loss of life to invade Japaqn proper, especially since elsewhere the war was already over.
My sources include a long session with LtCol Kermit Behan pulling CQ one weekend and my own research through the 5th Air Force intelligence archives in the late 1960's when I was an intelligence analysis assigned to the Far Eastern Watch Center at 5th AF.
@Jessica - "You expect North Koreans to sit back and wait for the next time the US decides to invade, occupy, destroy and utterly eliminate North Korea from the map?"
Point number one: You assume too much. What makes you think we WANT to invade North Korea? What do they have that we want? We only want them to give up their quest to invade the south and turn it into as much an economic and human rights disaster as they are. We want them to start behaving like a responsible nation that genuinely cares for its people instead of developing nuclear weapons, missiles and even trying to launch satellites while its people starve. Two million of their people starved to death during the famine there in the '90s. Two million! Think of it! Multiplied millions more malnourished. And don't make it seem like you are buying the rhetoric out of Pyongyang about this imminent U.S. invasion. I can't believe you to be that naive.
"We tear down, we dont build up...we destroy, we dont restore. We invade and colonize...we spread the disease that is American Arrogance and Greed all over the world...."
Jessica, this is not true. One only needs to look at Germany and Japan post-WWII to see that. Certainly we wreaked a lot of destruction back then. War is war. But then, after leveling their cities, we helped them build them up again. It's not any coincidence that Germany and Japan are now among our best friends. We tried to do that in Iraq and now Afghanistan, only to have the fanatical followers of radical Islam blow up what we tried to build for their respective peoples.
We invaded Afghanistan to rid the world of that monster who was responsible for murdering 3000 innocent people on our soil, not to mention causing $80 billion in damages. The Iraq war was a mistake, and everyone realizes that now. If we had concentrated all of the resources we spent in Iraq in Afghanistan, the war would have been over ages ago.
So where do we go from here? We have two rogue nations, North Korea, hell-bent on absorbing the south, and Iran who have stated they will wipe Israel off the face of the map trying to obtain nuclear weapons (although Iran's true intentions are still open to debate). One of the points I was trying to make in an earlier post is that the U.S. has shown itself to be a responsible member of the nuke club. So have all of the rest of the members, including India and Israel, thank God. What about NK and Iran? Do you think their rhetoric indicates responsibility? Do you think their treatment of their own people indicates responsibility? If they treat their own people that way, how do you think they will deal with the rest of us?
I do not see us ever invading NK unless they strike first at the south or their other neighbors like Japan. Nor do I see us doing anything in Iran, so unless Israel does something stupid, that's a non-issue too. Syria? Forget it. American people are tired of war and realize they can't keep being the world's policeman any longer.
@Jessica - if an individual needs guns so that he doesn't have to rely on state or mercy of others to protect himself - Then a nation certainly needs nuclear weapons so that they don't have to rely on the "World Police" or other nations to protect themselves.
So yes - I do think think that NK and any other country wants to have it should have it. And if they turn out to be irresponsible, then they will face the consequences.
great...now we will have every tiny Polynesian nation wanting to become nuclear, do you see how this is going to end? next headline news is going to be Aruba developing a nuclear warhead to put on top of their rocket that will reach Europe!!! please give me a break, this is totally ridiculous, the genie is out of the bottle, when all this African dictators buy one of those!!!
FYI, India is bigger than entire Europe, so direct your complaints to the tiny little nation of France first.
Nuclear weps are bad, but buddy, you have no idea the other weps that are out there, a bio engineered black plague is out there, and you are worried about nukes? Bio-weapons are the biggest threat too life out there today, they could easily kill everyone on earth, so get off your high horse and think of real dangers on the front lines...
Oh, and FYI, terrorists have already used bio weps more than once, aka the anthrax mail, remember that? that was bio engineered anthrax.
Trent: The anthrax attacks used bio-engineered agents from US weapons labs. If you recall, the prime suspect, although never proven, was a scientist in a US weapons lab. So either the US is allowing proliferation of these deadly substances to dangerous outside terror groups, or the attacks were performed by factions within our own government for political purposes, ie crank up the fear in the citizens to increase support for the War on Terror.
Duplicate post
While your post #4 is an interesting point, It doesn't recognize that india has had for years the ability to launch and place satellites in orbit. Is it any wonder that now they want to develope sophisticated guidence systems?
Based on historical evidence since WWll, one could see that economic and related manufacturing policies have been far more effective in positioning a nations influence in the world vs any military capability. The only benefit of a strong military is as a deterrent or as a police force in times of instability.
I thought Pakistan was their enemy! They're right next door, they don't need that range! Why aren't we outraged about this??
India is one of the biggest trading partners and allies with the United States. It is a strategic alliance for the U.S. to control terrorism in the middle east.
I hope they are pointing those test vehicles in the direction of Pakistan...then if they have a malfunction it's no loss.
With 'friends' like that, who needs enemies.
No, it's another bullsh!t excuse to get involved in another foreign war when our tax dollars are needed here at home.
ok bud, i am outraged. now what? like it matters? lmao. only an idiot thinks he has any power. citizens don't make decisions about the world. wake up.
SJU-RxStudent,
India's "strategic alliance " is just that. It's their stategy, for India. They could care less about the US. And actually I wouldn't want them monitoring anything for us. Have you ever tried to talk to CSR about a computer or insurance, all routed to India and in most cases the rep is clueless and the question/concern needs to be repeated numerous times. And India will smile in our face while stabbing us in the back. The people of the Middle East do not play games....one knows if they like you or not...................with India it's a different face each time. Which is more dangerous ???????????????????????
Cheryl - I wouldn't bet on it...
Only if one chooses to use it to rationalize the violence in the middle east. Politics and diplomacy have always been a game to avoid military conflct. Even conflict assumes a winner.
Cheryl Haque - You must be one of those Americans who think there is America. There is Europe. There is Japan and then all the rest is middle east. Right ?
Well for your info. India is NOT in middle east.
Secondly, America will be hard pressed to find a more steadfast ally than India. Despite the fact that right after its independence, America shunned it completely and decided for some weird reason to sideup with Pakistan.
Thirdly - If your corporations are sending your jobs to India that is the fault of your corporations and its shareholders who are pushing the corporations for better and better returns on their investment. Holding Indians responsible for your job loss is putting blame where it doesn't need to be.
As far as stabbing in the back is concerned, if you go around the world asking about it, you will find that America is considered the back stabber in chief because of its propensity to engage allies and then discarding them like used toilet papers once the American objective has been met.
If that is the direction then the 5000 KM missile would land in Europe not Pakistan! Think before you utter words on this forum...and knowing a little about world's geography would not hurt either!
Yes..But when Pakistan shoots back it would be a much bigger loss. You would be better off to know that Pakistan's missiles are solid fuel based, are much lighter and faster than India.
From wikipedia:
"Relations between contemporary China and India have been been characterized by border disputes, resulting in three major military conflicts — the Sino-Indian War of 1962, the Chola incident in 1967, and the 1987 Sino-Indian skirmish. However, since late 1980s, both countries have successfully attempted to reignite diplomatic and economic ties. In 2008, China emerged as the largest trading partner of India and the two countries have also attempted to extend their strategic and military relations. Despite growing economic and strategic ties, several issues continue to strain Sino-Indian relations. Though bilateral trade has continuously grown, India faces massive trade imbalance heavily in favor of China. The two countries have failed to resolve their long-standing border dispute and Indian media outlets repeatedly report Chinese military incursions into Indian territory. Both nations have steadily built-up military infrastructure along border areas. Additionally, India harbors suspicions about China's strong strategic relations with its arch-rival Pakistan while China has expressed concerns about Indian military and economic activities in disputed South China Sea."
American2051576,
I along with millions of others would. Been overseas, know global people. Trust me on this.
Gunga Din,
For your information I know that...it was a comparison. I made a statement that India will not show you their true colors, that they play games and that the Middle Easterners will be truthful. One will know if they are liked or disliked...no games. I have traveled to Asia, where India is....been in India and Bangladesh (formerly E Pakistan formerly part of India. I know my geography and I know cultures. I stand by my statement. I suggest you take a course in reading.
i thought it said on wikipedia
so what did u search up cuz i searched up pakistan and pakistan done some stupid things i the past and its even smart 2 no not 2 have war with china
Good for them as long as they dont begin chanting 'Death to America" I have no problem with it.
Don't worry...there are plenty of the home grown "patriotic" variety born and raised here in America that are pushing that rhetoric...and they suddenly appeared in November of 2008.
I know, let's start another war and bitch about our taxes.
Hah, I don't need a war to bitch about taxes...
Think ya missed Multiplayer's snark
We got involved in Afgahanistan after being attacked and then started a war in Iraq, while simultaneously cutting taxes! Then people wanted more.
Seriously, what kind of a brain dead idiot thinks you should cut revenue while fighting wars, the most expensive thing a govt can do???? Why shouldn't we all sacrifice?
Yes, Republicans are dip@!$%#s. Lying, evil, dip@!$%#s, every last one of them.
Do it and all your customer service call centers will be shut down. India is the only country capable of shutting down the radicals from Pakistan. And you are also referring to sanctions onto the largest democracy in the world.
??????????????!!!!!!!!, you make it sound like there are only a few "radicals", what you are talking about is the WHOLE Nation of Pakistan being Fundamentalist Islamic Believers, except the US Ally Pakistanis Government.
This is why it was the People of Pakistan as Fundamentalist Islamic Believers that were providing Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden right under the noses of the US Ally Pakistanis Government, with most of the US Ally Pakistanis Government, Intelligence Agency, Military infiltrated by the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers of Pakistan aka "the Pakistanis People".
This is why the US Ally Pakistanis Government's Military is outnumbered outfunded (Mandatory Islamic Tithes) by the Army of Islam Pakistan, Haqqini Network and Pakistanis Taliban. And do not even say anything about the Christians, or other Religions at Pakistan; they do or say anything against Fundamentalist Islamic Laws they may as well as hang themselves as well as their family before their neighbors do that for them.
Radical my a-s-s..... Whats radical is that we have someone in the white house ruling the nation who hardly had 1 year as a senator and or in any sort of major political position beforehand. Whats radical is that we spend billions of dollars on 2 pointless wars while a 5 minute drive from my house there are beggars with signs looking for work. Radical is that we let people like troy davis die on death row even though all the witnesses recanted their testimonies. Radical is that nothing that truthful people say matters to the american people and whatever idiots like santorum and romney (*who are the worst people of the nation*) say does matter. Screw this, we might as well worry about Tebow or linsanity that is much more important....
There are over 180 million people in Pakistan. They are not all radical Muslims.
Osama bin Laden was able to live in comfortable, semi-retirement for over 5 years in Pakistan because the Pakistan Government is at least partially sympathetic to Al Qaeda and other extremist groups within the country ...and because that dick-head of dick-heads, George W. Bush, was expending the lion's share of our nation's military and diplomatic resources in Iraq.
All that aside, this emerging arms race amongst the two most powerful nations in Asia is not good news in any sense of the term, and, to SJU-RxStudent, India does not need a long range missile to reach Pakistan. If you've ever troubled yourself to look at map, then you might have noticed that the two nations are right next door to one another. This missile development is aimed at China, and we should discourage it any peaceful manner possible.
ur right DONT BLAME PAKISTAN and if u guys r 1dering why does she care so muh bout pakistan IM A 100% PAKISTANI
Let me get this right...they won't kill a damn cow, but they feel the need to have the ability to exterminate thousands of people up to 3000 miles away? Maybe they should just eat the cows and be happy with that.
Trust me the last thing India would do is nuke Europe. India has been allies with the E.U. for years. The news is just spouting statistic about how far the missles can reach.
dboy, well said. Maybe they're like the US and want to impose their values on other countries, such as those dog-eating Chinese, PETA-style.
dboygoode,
Really shameful. Go take a College Eastern Philosophy (not Religion) Course, learn about all the Hindu Gods, especially Shiva. Then paint yourself blue and dance.
What did you think India is full of Ghandis.
They feel the need to defend themselves against China, not the E.U. China has invaded them before, might do it again, India just wants another card to play, after all it is alot harder to throw that first punch when you know they will hit you just as hard if not harder. Taking that into account, and China's relations with Pakistan, and their border disputes with both countries, then it is real easy to see why they would want these missiles.
Exactly, and China will be looking for a place to inhabit after their resources are gone and all of their land is toxic. China's booming economy is unsustainable.
dboygoode
-all in the name of their bs religion o doubt.
I wonder if people REALLY understand what a Nuclear Winter will be like.
Humanity seem suicidal a times
mooo...eat more chicken...
Before you go too crazy with the whole religion thing try to remember every right-winger in this country insists we are a Christian Nation. How many people have we, as a nation, exterminate on a semi-regular basis? Then ask yourself "who would Jesus exterminate?".
They have nukes already so this is no shocker.
Surprising to see such uninformed sterotyped views on India. Before explaining some points let me say the immediate provocation for urgent testing.
1. Obama after election came to China and announced the policing authority of world in this part of the world. Effectively mutually dividing world between US & China.
We all know the China's holdings of US debt, So in no way could US take any decision which could anger china. So China could continue its expansionist policies.
Indians understood when it comes to confrontation against China, None US/Russia or anyone would come to our aid, and however flawed our democratic systems are still we don’t want to ruled by Chinese.
This can only be called as small deterrent as we all know us, as way behind China in total terms. Also China will always be ahead of us, and will eventually be becoming biggest military power in the world overtaking even US. But saying this we should do nothing, is totally unacceptable to us.
India is never in raise with China in military buildup (majority public opinion is also against such madness), but only works for a strategy were, if attacked in return causing an unacceptable damage to the aggressor. As such we don’t need huge number of missiles or other Mass destruction weapons. Our defense policy aims at confronting the threat coming from China or territories in command of it.
We Indians are born into a difficult environment were our neighbors have unlimited regional expansion plans. As we can’t choose neighbors we have to go the WMD way because of compulsions, Not by Choice. But I must admit if Taliban/some madman take control of these WMD we all are doomed, till then we Indians live here to post comments via Internet.
So uncontrolled arms race is ruled out & though incase of a war with China we (India ) stand no chance. But even if they win the war that will be the end of China Story that world is seeing today.
Thank God Israel did not drag us into war last month seeing this country gets all its oil from Iran and went behind the US sanctions to protect its interests in Iran. Something to remember going forward if Israel starts wanting war again in May like some had said when they eased up last month.
What are you talking about. Israel did not demand the US and Israel attack the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran, US Ally Saudi Arabia demanded a US and or Israelis Military Attack 2010 before the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran completed digging themselves underground, 2012, below 250 feet in rock then steel reinforced concrete out of reach of both Israelis and US weapons capabilities.
Because this was against President Obama's March 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, President Obama ignored US Ally Saudi Arabia's demands to attack the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran or take any other actions. To placate the US Ally Saudi Arabian Government President Obama sent, then, Secretary of Defense Gates to talk to them (Saudis).
So now we have this situation:
Iran 2009 to 2012, Strait of Hormuz
http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-strait-of-hormuz
And one of the few US Allies left in the "Middle East" the US Ally Saudi Arabia almost surrounded by Enemy Nations backed by the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran.
King of US Ally Saudi Arabia, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran as a Gift on a Golden Platter". US lost the Iraqis Oil to Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran that could have paid for the US Military Liberation of Iraq with decades of Iraqis Oil. The Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran negotiated with their Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the Iraqis Oil Contracts.
Obvious move to counter the Chinese expansion into Southeast Asia. Good one, India.
Don't worry...they're not Muslims.
Well they never launched a nuke before we americans now did they? I would worry about us launching one first since we have the blood of 700,000+ on our hands.
^ If the 700,000+ is referring to Hiroshima and Nagasaki (which is a vast over-estimate if it is), what was the alternative exactly? To invade Japan and kill even MORE of them? Dohhhhhhhkay... That blood was on JAPAN'S hands!!! They had EVERY opportunity to surrender and they didn't do it. Not only that, but if they didn't start the war in the first place, guess what? No atomic bombings!
Actually I believe that all attempts to surrender by the Japanese were ignored. The scientists and politicians wanted to field-test this new weapon.
Wow, what else do you believe? The Japanese were given ample opportunity to surrender. The Russans had entered the war with Japan and the US was eager to accept Japan's surrender before the Russans could advance. The bomb had already been tested and we were quite aware of it's potential affect...but you just go on believing what you would like.
Look, I'm as irritated with my government as the next guy, but to revise history to make the U.S. look evil is just a little too Orwellian for my tastes. Japan's responses to the repeated demands to surrender "or else" even after Hiroshima was bombed are well documented. They flatly refused, even contemptuously so.
I am Muslim, and I am peaceful....maybe you should take a lesson.
Reason, you did invade them you stupid donkey. Bombing as I remember it is quite the invasion. You invaded iraq but I do not remember you bombing them either. Cuz you knew what you did was wrong moron
I'm not too concerned with India having long range missiles as they act as deterent to esp China who is intimidating all its neighbors including India who shares a long border with China. China remains too pushy with its military and is trying to get its neighbors to not stand up to China. India will make a good partner to various small nations of South and SE Asia who view China as unpredictable.
oh come on, India has every right to have ranged missiles. We don't object when the US, France or even China come up with a new generation of projectiles.. why should India be any different? And unlike our allies, they don't want to become dependent on buying stuff from other countries. Kudos to India.
Not really a big deal. India has had this capability for years along with China, Europe and the US. It is amazing that this article sounds drastically different if it comes from a country that America doesn't hate though. God forbid if this came from North Korea, Iran or China than this article would take a totally different spin even though the context would be the same. I love politics......
To be fair, China comes up with and tests new missiles with alarming frequency. Nobody bothers to report on it other than technical military rags.
yawn
Good for India. Now cut all money to Pakistan and root for the US and India in the up coming Olympics...
Given a supporting environment we will be only too happy to dumb all the nukes & missiles, after all what is it real use. Its gives us no benefit to cause destruction to other nations property / population. But there is no chance of that in near future & humanity is full of mad people who want to rule others/ enslave or killing of people they think as inferior /don't suit to their scheme of things. What can we Indians do alone in arresting this madness?.
All should know that our early leaders thought that China is our greatest friend & some were even advocating that there wasn't even need for military in China border. Even in wildest dreams they weren't expecting an attack. For them only Pakistan was the possible threat. And when China made a surprise attack our forces in that part of boarder was totally unprepared & didn't even have proper footwear to wear, forget about required weapons to defend. No wonder we were humiliated by Chinese. But now there is No such surprise element & No total walkover conditions exist.
So as I mentioned demilitarization won't work if you have such an expansionist neighbor. Hope those who are against India going WMD way start curtailing their WMD too, and then we will only be too happy to do away with whatever little we have.
Double standard...
Irony would be if China got upset, tried to pass a UN resolution. The US blocked it and told everyone to remain clam.
Its not a double standard: India is all growed up. Iran and others are still rugrats.
would have been nice if they had spent that money on research on how to grow food to feed the many poor people in their country and to improve the slums!
we should have done that too
Actually, India is food self-sufficent. They just are not fat like we are(I'll admit it). They have poverty, but so does China. And China, not Pakistan is the reason for the Agni.
in would be nice if the world could spend less money on weapons and more on food to feed the hungry! just a dream that will never happen!!!
The problem isnt that the world has a shortage of food to feed the hungry. The problem is that the Government in an effort to encourage people to consume larger amounts of food, have steadily increased the average dinner plate over the years.In the 1960's the average dinner plate was 9 inches and could hold about 800 calories. In the late 80's the size was raised to 10 inches and 1000 calories worth of food. In early 2000 it was raised to 11 inches and about 1600 calories and today's 12 inch plates hold about 1900 calories. The point you may ask. Well at today's plate sizes an average american eats 121 to 122 extra meals, at dinner time alone, each year. If the Average dinner plate was reduced back to 1960 levels, Americans would be far healthier, and would have lots of extra food to feed the hungry and eliminate World Hunger. But that will never happen because 1) drug companies make a fortune off of our heath problems, 2) diet companies make a fortune off of people being overweight 3) both of those companies contribute to politians who set the plate sizes, so why would the cut off their own source of income?
I think it is funny as heck that our First lady is all about eating healthier, but one of the first acts of our current president was to increase the Average american's dinner plate size. They should have been all about reducing it so that people eat less food everyday and are healthier!!!
That's absurd. First, government doesn't set plate size. If they did, it would be time for REVOLUTION. Second, have you ever heard of the all you can eat buffet? There is nothing to stop an American from going back and refilling his plate as many times as he likes.
SeriouslyTigger? The government controls plate size? One of Obama's first acts was to increase the average American's dinner plate size? That is the most tin-foil-hat pile of crap I have ever heard, which is really saying something. Where do you get your weed?
Proving Indian Defense Planners right, within 5 days Pakistan also announced their missile test plan. So this missile was already with Pakistan, all these days. How else could they have made it within days of Indian test?. Earlier also with in weeks of Indian nuke test, Pakistan also tested their nukes. So testing or not mean nothing.
Already Pakistan has demonstrated that have missiles that can reach almost whole of China. So there is nothing more to fear now. India knows whole of it is under Chinese missiles aimed from China/Pakistan.
India has realized every weapon that China possesses is also with Pakistan. As China has tested all these many times, there is no need for Pakistan to test it. Whereas India has to test it to make sure of its capabilities.
This is why Indian missile test sometimes fail and in later tests proven successful. India perfects its technology through trials, whereas Pakistan has access to already tested weapons. Although Chinese missile also fail as part of secret trials we all know why it won’t be reported.
So India possessing Nuke/ICBM makes no difference as our neighbors always do have it no matter what. Realizing this now Indian defense plan is modified to counter simultaneous attack from China & Pakistan. Anyway Pakistan is a proxy of China and as such Chinese controlled territory.
So if Newdelhi is hit, simultaneous counter attack should reach Islamabad & Beijing. We all know in Pakistan other than some Terrorist training camps not much exist. Whereas, in case of China, it is not such.
Of course we all know what it will happen in the end of this madness, but it is not a choice but a compulsion because of a limitless expansionist regime with Veto Power in our neighborhood.
(Sorry last post has some major typing errors reposting as noticed late only)
Proving Indian Defense Planners right, within 5 days Pakistan also announced their missile test plan. So this missile was already with Pakistan, all these days. How else could they have made it within days of Indian test?. Earlier also with in weeks of Indian nuke test, Pakistan also tested their nukes. So testing or not mean nothing.
Already Pakistan has demonstrated that have missiles that can reach almost whole of India. So there is nothing more to fear now. India knows whole of it is under Chinese missiles aimed from China/Pakistan.
India has realized every weapon that China possesses is also with Pakistan. As China has tested all these many times, there is no need for Pakistan to test it. Whereas India has to test it to make sure of its capabilities.
This is why Indian missile test sometimes fail and in later tests proven successful. India perfects its technology through trials, whereas Pakistan has access to already tested weapons. Although Chinese missile also fail as part of secret trials & we all know why it won’t be reported.
So India possessing Nuke/ICBM makes no difference as our neighbors always do have it no matter what. Realizing this now Indian defense plan is modified to counter simultaneous attack from China & Pakistan. Anyway Pakistan is a proxy of China and as such Chinese controlled territory.
So if Newdelhi is hit, simultaneous counter attack should reach Islamabad & Beijing. We all know in Pakistan other than some Terrorist training camps not much exist. Whereas, in case of China, it is not such.
Of course we all know what it will happen in the end of this madness, but it is not a choice but a compulsion because of a limitless expansionist regime with Veto Power in our neighborhood.
The "War on Poverty" is the longest war in world history...
I say nuke the poor. That's how to win the War on Poverty. Just eliminate all of those who have their hands out for a hand out.
You can't nuke the poor. WalMart said so.
That's a tad bit mean, John. I work my minimum wage job to get through college. -_-
Feeding the poor is like feeding a stray cat..........let nature take care of it.
Where is all the righteous indignation and sanctions and threats of military action , and shooting down their missiles . Seems like a bit of two faced politics going on here.You all know what happens when our government gets involved in picking and choosing winners and losers.
As far as I know India hasnt tried to comp hack our power grid. India hasnt refered to Israel/US as lil Satan/big Satan. India has denied the Holocaust. India hasnt threatened Japan or Threatened to block world Imports/Exports. I can go on and on...
They threatened to take your job
LOL TF....You got him there.
He is right about India. They did not receive the same threats of military action from the US or the United Nations because they are not considered a Rogue nation. They are not the same threat that some other nations are. The Nations that receive those kind of threats are usually dictators who actively threaten other nations and pose a threat of the WMD ending up in the hands of Terrorists or other parties that desire to cause us harm.
This is not the same as North Korea or Iran. Having Nuclear weapons and Nuclear Power is a serious threat to all other nations and should be reserved for nations who would use it responsibly.
Why India and A Long Range Missle Launch? END TIMES !
the Hindu times..
Quiz: Which is the only nation in the world, that has used nuclear weapons, in the entire history of the world? Hint: This country lied that Iraq has WMD and destroyed it with its WMD, claiming that the preemptive strike on any country is its birth right.
The Intellectual, my sentiments, exactly.
Umm...Jamaica?
:)
Well, let's see: US, UK, France, USSR, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea. Don't think I missed any out...
Do I win a prize for answering this trick question correctly?
Did you forget to add........ offensively in wartime?
Aussie
you missed out israel which also hase a huge stockpile of nuclear warheads.
Heinrich - Israels nuclear capability is only "assumed" as they do not confirm or deny their existence. My take is that this is their best policy, keep everyone unsure.
Intellectual - So gas is not a WMD? The safe assumption is that if a country has used it on several occasions in the past, still threaten to do so in the future and roadblock inspections, that they still have them. To bad for saddam that he bluffed and we blinked.
Aussie, USSR does not exist anymore since 1991.
I'd love to know what WMD were used in Iraq by the US. The liberals always say we lied about Iraq having WMD but they neglect to say that multiple country's including country's that are not friendly to the US all had intelligence reports saying that they were actively making and/or seeking to make WMD. We had every right to go in and stop them. I disagree with occupying the nation after we determined there were no WMD but the US did not manufacture the intelligence. It may have been incorrect but it had to have been determined based on real threats, and information we received as well as other nations receiving. Its how we all came to the same conclusion. If Iraq had been more cooperative in the inspection process which was ordered by the United Nations (Not the US alone) then the mistake may have been avoided.
And to answer your question "The Intellectual", clearly you are not that smart. As Aussie Guy pointed out the US is not the only nation to have used Nuclear Weapons. We may have been the first and only nation to use them on another nation but multiple other nations have them, and have used them in testing. I am sure you think that using it on the Japanese was wrong but it likely saved more life's by ending the war quickly. Amazing enough we used it on the Japanese and you don't see a massive hatred between our Nation and the Japanese people or vs versa. It needed to be done and thank god we had a Democrat in office who had the stones to do what was necessary then. If any of the Democrat politicians we have now where in office I fear they would make the wrong decision.
Intellectual, is that a trick question? You care to state what country your a citizen of? I would assume that you actually wanted to ask what country use a atomic bomb in war time. Based on that, I would answer the Allied nations, but the US Army Air Corp was used to deliver it. You're narrow minded.
Next....
Intellectual - your question was a trick question, wasn't it? And the hint you provided was designed to throw would-be responders off track, right?
Henrich - american has correctly pointed out that the Jewish state's capability is assumed. Otherwise, I'd be obliged if you might remind me of the time and place of an Israeli nuclear test detonation.
Yo, happy - Jeez, the USSR used nukes on numerous occasions. Since the Soviet Union breakup as I recollect, neither Russia nor any of the other constituent republics has tested a nuke. I had to include the USSR in my answer to the trick question otherwise I might have missed out on any prize. Bloody hell...
This is great quiz.. It shed's light on the foolishness of the person that wrote it.
american-2051576 - Well you got part of it right. Saddam did use gas on the Iranians and Kurds, and he threatened to use it on invading US troops. The rest of it is fantasy. While George W Bush was railing at Saddam to allow the weapons inspectors back in...they were already there. Do you remember Hans Blix? The administration at the time hated the guy. The point being, the Bush administration was crying "let the inspectors in" while the inspectors were jumping up and down shouting "we're here"! In fact, the UN was warned by the Administration to pull the inspectors out before we began bombing.
23 July 2002 - Downing Street Memo: "C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
Let's stop lying to ourselves. GW wanted to be a wartime president and Afghanistan wasn't sexy enough. Besides the Taliban didn't try to kill his dad.
Aussie, the israel possessing of nuclear weapon is an open secret
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/13/evidence-of-israeli-nuclear-test
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/
Thanks for the links Henrich, but purely speculative in my judgement.
Both articles are full of might-haves, could-haves, it's-possible, not-sure, blah blah blah.
Should they indeed have the capability, and with their industriousness, general military prowess and sense of self-preservation it wouldn't really surprise me, then their restraint over the years has been commendable. As I recall, they never threatened anyone with destruction or to drive anyone into the sea...
Their deeds are worse than their words.
They occupy neighbours' land, with intent to keep in perpetuity, oppress the locals and subject them to seige environment and deprive them of human dignity. They kill and maim and will with no impunity, thanks to the backing of USA which blocked any condemnation at the Security Councl.