well put!

Israel is our (the US) only true friend in the region. And that is despite some "rocky" circumstances like our reluctance to support the nascent state in 1948, Israel's tragic error against the Liberty and the US refusal to support Israel in 1973.

We might be able to rely somewhat on Turkey, Jordan, Bahrain, the Saudis at best. Although you never know what is really happening in Mecca.

Israel has only made peace with two nations, but really only their despot leaders (Egypt and Jordan).

Today there is no clear direction for Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen. There is a clear direction for Iran, Syria, Somalia and it's anti American.

Henrich von Dorf again! His name says it all.

Huh, what does that mean. Henrick is Henry, you got a problem with the late Fonda?

Go to your room, missy.

Cass, critics like me and apologist like you and martin bart will always cross path when news of israeli intrasigence are debated on this vine.

Come ON, Marky, it's the "von Dorf" part that gives him away.

Actually Cassandra, I disagree. Islamic propagandists almost always pick a western-sounding screen name - perhaps because they are ashamed of being Muslim.

"when news of israeli intrasigence are debated on this vine" - Henrich von Dorf

This particular vine discusses Israeli INDEPENDENCE. And by the nature of your posts, you rather belong to discussions in "Der Stuermer" and "Voelkischer Beobachter".

And to moderators concerned with calling Antisemites their proper names, here's a quote from Dr. Goebbels: "Every Antisemite is a potential National Socialist".

Kannin

Wrong again. Read my past postings and you will realize I am an atheist, not have any religious belief particularly the chosen people crap.

Joseph Stalin was an atheist. He too didn't like jews.

That was Stalin's prerogative if he chose not to like jews.

Jews are not the problem, zionists are.

Independece from what or who?

Jews are not the problem, zionists are_H.VonDorf

Remember the SS. Saint Louis?

You do realize that the West Bank is Judea an Samaria? This has ALWAYS belonged to Israel. Israel developed that entier area for thousands of years and simply took back what was rightfully theirs. There are no Palestenians! The terms was coined from the British in 1947 fro the refugees that stayed there. It was a diseased undeveloped horrible area and Israel has made it into an economic womder. Israel will develop the bilions of natural gases on waters that are thier own and be energy independent.

where you from ? do you even know where Israel , Egypt etc,, are located on the world map , if there is any terrorism here it is indeed ISRAEL ,

cadmancan You talk like Israel now is the same in the bible , I should have named my son Jesus so everybody Will respect him and worship him , man the Jews left that part of the world long time ago , just like if you are saying that the red Indians have the right to America, I do not know where you coming from buddy , But ,I am a christian and i do not believe the Jews are god chosen people like our conservative preachers try to make believe , that Jesus not coming back til they build the temple of David , sorry buddy but that is since fiction , our lord when he comes back , he ca come back to any part of the world not necessary Israel , I do not know if you christian buddy , but we followed his son and they crucified him , I do not know where that puts them as God chosen people , I think the lord going to judge us on our action not our religion . and if you do not believe that you need to move to Israel and wait , its going to be long wait .

"My Turn," two recent Popes have said that the Jews must not be blamed for killing Jesus. They certainly did no crucify him, since that was a Roman punishment.

Well, alright then... since the Popes said it then it must be true, legit, worth something...

PLEASE! Pull head out of where the sun don't shine.

cadmancan, read:

The Greek toponym Palaistínē (Παλαιστίνη), with which the Arabic Filastin (فلسطين) is cognate, first occurs in the work of the 5th. century BCE Greek historian Herodotus, where it denotes generally^[28] the coastal land from Phoenicia down to Egypt.^[29][30] Herodotus also employs the term as an ethnonym, as when he speaks of the 'Syrians of Palestine' or 'Palestinian-Syrians',^[31] an ethnically amorphous group he distinguishes from the Phoenicians).^[32] The Greek word bears comparison to a congeries of ancient ethnonyms and toponyms. In Ancient Egyptian Peleset/Purusati^[33] refers to one of the Sea Peoples. Among Semitic languages, Assyrian Palastu generally refers to southern Palestine.^[34] Old Hebrew's cognate word Plištim,^[35] usually translated Philistines, does not distinguish them and the other Sea Peoples, who settled in Palestine around 1100 BCE.^[36]

'The pipeline was part of a peace treaty between the two countries that was signed by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in 1979.'

When the media become so ignorant and feed the masses their confused,untrue information and it is not corrected by anyone it becomes evident that the people have been brainwashed and dumbed down ,especially this younger generation by an incompetent and biased media.

President for life Hosni Mubarak did not sign the peace treaty with Israel,Anwar Sadat did and was assassinated by the Muslim brotherhood for doing so. This is factual information that the deviant media will not report to their dumbed down readers.

This has ALWAYS belonged to Israel.

LOL WRONG!

A person may only lay claim to that which he has the strength and blood to defend. Neither Jews nor Israelis have any superior claim to land in the middle east, expecially if that claim is based on supposedly being the 'first' in the area and a bunch of hokey religious texts.

two recent Popes have said that the Jews must not be blamed for killing Jesus.

LOL Since the catholic church said it, it must be true! Too f*ckin' funny for me! more LOL's

:D

Stoned, the Popes said that the Jews must not be blamed for killing Jesus for a very good reason: That charge had been the basis of Jew baiting going back to the Middle Ages...and, as some of these postings are proving, it continues even now.

the Jews must not be blamed for killing Jesus

Because "Jews" had nothing to do with it.

The Roman historian Tacitus, in Annals 1544 provides the answer who killed Jesus.

Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous

But the Pharisees (Jews) were complicit in the crucifixion

source?

No Jew baiting there

source?

kpr37 - That is a fascinating piece of historical documentation! Thank you!

kpr37 - That is a fascinating piece of historical documentation! Thank you!

here is a link to the complete set of his writing's

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/tacitus/

LOL You HAVE GOT to be kidding me. Try MOST of the New Testament!

As a non-Christian why should I give a @!$%# ?

What kind of jackass

The kind who knows a CoH violation when I see one.(LOL)

As a non-Christian why should I give a @!$%# ?

So as a 'non-Christian' you choose not to consider all sources of information before forming a decision about a topic?

Non-Christian accounts of Christ's crucifixion:

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/trials/jesus/nonchristianaccounts.html

Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian of the first century CE says:

About the same time there lived Jesus, a wise man for he was a performer of marvelous feats and a teacher of such men who received the truth with pleasure. He attracted many Jews and many Greeks. He was called the Christ. Pilate sentenced him to die on the cross, having been urged to do so by the noblest of our citizens...

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/trials/jesus/jesusaccount.html

provides more 'non-Christian' perspective and accurately identifies Jewish leadership as being complicit.

I really do wish i was familiar with the New Testament when i was younger.

I was told in 6th grade that i personally killed Jesus. This came to me as a shock, as i was a very friendly timid little introvert, and didnt have a violent impulse in my entire body.

According to what Christians and Catholics believe... Jesus was supposed to die for the sins of the world. So regardless of WHO killed him... it was supposed to happen exactly as it did. He was not supposed to reign during that time period. The person or people who killed Jesus didnt stop any of G-d's secret plans.

If Jesus didnt die in the way that he did, anyone who believes that he is the Messiah... would be wasting their time.

Blaming the Jews, or the Romans is absolutely pointless.

Some people at the time thought that he was going to establish the Kingdom of G-d right there and dethrone the Romans. That was never the intention. And the Roman Empire met its eventual end.

And as for the Christian "My Turn" who posted about the Jewish people being replaced as the chosen people by the Christian. Read the part in the book of Romans that speaks of how the gentiles were given the chance to be grafted in because of the majority of Jewish people's initial disbelief. it also speaks of that the natural branches will be grafted in again, and how if G-d did not spare the natural branches... do not be arrogant, because he may not spare you as well.

I find replacement theology to be another form of anti-semitism.

There's my three cents. One for inflation.

Should be

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/jesusaccount.html

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/nonchristianaccounts.html

.

archeim

How much of tax money go to Israel ?? America is an bankrupt because of Israel ,and if you employed today you may be homeless soon because of Israel . think out of the box and will see for your self

Alan, that charge is almost too stupid to answer. But since someone might believe you...America is going bankrupt because of our own internal entitlement programs, our loans to Israel require their using the money to purchase our goods, and our loans to Egypt are about the same amount.

Marky-239878

Another moronic comment... The word "Loan" means one would pay it back with interest, NOT sort of paying it back for purchasing goods. Flunked math did you, einstein? What don't you go write a song, Cassa-MORON-dra

• !

#3.3 - Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:37 PM PDT

Another worthless post by an "Israel basher" on Newsvine!

If Islamic terrorism hasn't affected your way of life or your part of the world then it won't belong before it does.

Every time you go through the TSA group-grope at the airport, you are being affected by Islamic terrorism. Remember who made that nonsense necessary.

Once again, America is giving about the same amount to Egypt, Israel must use our funding to buy American goods, and by far most of our funding goes to our own entitlement programs. You can repeat your big lie as often as you want, but it is still just that.

Marky,

Were you aware that Newsvine has a Code of Ethics?

Maybe you should read it before posting comments like #6.2 and #3.3 above!

Unfortunately the moderator of the newsvine does not seem to exercise impartiality. Comments that are unfavorable to israel usally got collapsed for the excuse of violating code of conduct. However when similar comments applied on muslim, China, Iran or NK they do not suffer similar fate.

In the interest of free speech and fairness it is time that the moderator to exercise impartiality and not showing favouitism to israel.

OK, Marky, let me put it this way. All the money that American gives to Israel in one year would be about enough to keep Social Security and Medicare going for one ay.

cassandra, doesn't matter if it was one day or one second

we don't owe them anything

Pledge of aliegance is for America, not Israel. Get that straight, or move to Israel.

davefromorange, here is a re-wording that conforms to your code of ethics:

Cassamoranda... that is by far like the most, like astonishing, like so way out there, "analysis" I have ever heard. We like give them like free money so they can like buy stuff from us and like fund our entitlement programs?! And like that is so like good so we should like do more?! Like, wow, this is so groovy!! I can't like see how this makes sense. Oh my brain hurts, like so bad.

Mal, I assume you refer to Sixty Minutes absurd claim that the Jews are forcing the Christians out of Israel...when, in fact, it is the Muslim extremists who are attacking Christians as part of the "Arab Spring."

In fact, Israel is the only Middle Eastern country where Christians are completely free to worship.

what about the rest of his people, chopped liver?

Ralph H, aren't you going to tell us, once again, that the Jews killed Jesus, thus proving that you have one of the finest minds of the 10th Century. You have gone far beyond anti Semitism to plain old fashioned Jew baiting.

So anyway, we have just heard from Ralph H, Henrich von Dorf and Malocchio, the Big Three who always seem to show up spewing their venom at any mention of Israel. In other words...Heil, Heil, the gang's all here.

And you are spewing rose water from coco chanel I'm sure

Marky-239878

And you are spewing rose water from coco chanel I'm sure

• !

#9.3 - Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:42 PM PDT

It's so obvious the "Israel bashers" on Newsvine have nothing intelligent to say!

Cassandra-854239 So anyway, we have just heard from Ralph H, Henrich von Dorf and Malocchio, the Big Three who always seem to show up spewing their venom at any mention of Israel. In other words...Heil, Heil, the gang's all here.

Love it Cassandra - so true!

Thank you so much, Kan...kind words like yours help encourage me to go on courting carpal tunnel syndrome, by answering the same old absurd anti-Zionists accusations over and over again.

Cassandra - it's just another wonderful day on the vine. same old people (and now we're joined by a funky bunch!) with the same old arguments.

Keep up the good work... hope the carpal tunnel gets better :)

Maybe because it was nonsense, Pad. If you have ever set foot in Jerusalem, you will see all the Christians worshiping at Christian sites, most importantly the Holy Sepulcher. And you will hear the Church bells mingling with the Muslim Call to Prayer.

And speaking of the other little anti-christs.

1) The temple priests, the official governing body of the tribes of israel at the time demanded Christs execution on false charges, it was an official act of the leaders of the tribes of Israel.

2) Jesus was subjected to this sinful behavior because He, as the Messiah, was not the Messiah the tribes of Israel wanted and they being petty spoiled children had him killed. Jesus and His followers at that point were Jews only by bloodline, they had already accepted the New Covenant, so in religious terms, they were actually something other than Jews, they were the first Christians, and I see you failed to note how the tribes of Israel actually persecuted them.

3) The issue of whether we can afford to aid Israel economically is moot, they are not deserving of any nations aid. They are an immoral nation, a sociopath who would stab anyone in the back if they saw a benefit in it for themselves and have indeed done so many times. But to be sure, corporate greed and corrupt politicians, as well as sniveling religious hypocrites of the religious right with their false witness to the Christ is destroying this nation.

4) Statements based on facts that are included in the books written by the tribes of israel and their own actions today, are not anti-semetic. There was a con artist "movie producer" who got busted defrauding the state of Iowa for millions, her first defense was the prosecutor was just an anti-semite, people of the jewish faith claim such BS every time they face legeitimate criticism, they use it everytime they get busted for crimes, it's old, it's dishonest and quite frankly just proves they are in fact vain, petty children.

5) I doubt you belive in anything that you can't manipulate to serve your own needs.

I guess the poster from #11.1 above never heard about Roman Law and its consequences for those under its rule during the first century!

From post #11.1 above:

5) I doubt you belive in anything that you can't manipulate to serve your own needs.

Actually, your item #5) above really applies to you, as is obvious from the truely bogus contents contained within your post!

Needless to say, the question of who killed Jesus is still important because the charge that the Jews killed Jesus is the basis of anti-semitism going back to the Dark Ages. That's why those two recent Popes found it important to deny it.

I think it goes something like this "jesus, save me from your followers".

Brilliantly put together! I wish that every one in the world would finally realize it.

Indeed! A very well put together bit of half truths, slanted interpretation of history and facts, mixed with some good old fashioned jew-baiting.

A perfect trifecta of bile!

I have to agree with pjwbur on this one... Herr Goebbels would be proud of the author of post 12.

And those that say the "love" America have led it into disasterous wars, support torture, the degradation of our RIGHTS, Wall St thievery...

and I might add, support a foreign nation over their own, even backing the treacherous attack upon a US ship...jeesh!

Fail, nice try though, still the dumb old "your with us or against us" meme.

davefro"moran"ge!!! Ivestigated by whom? People who wanted to cover it up. You may want to see the interviews with the those unfortunate sailors who were actually on the ship. I've seen it. They, who witnessed the whole incident the first hand, clearly stated that it was a DELIBERATE attack!!! Do you think they're liars? I don't.

davefromorange,

keep digging...keep digging...

The Electronic Intelligence vessel USS Liberty was attacked in 1967 during the six-day war, and 34 crew members were killed. There were seven major US government investigations and at least as many more by Israel and other interested parties - like the Russians. They all seem to be highly contradictory as to the facts, ranging from a "tragic mistake" to a "premeditated attack". Of the ones that concluded the latter, however, there is agreement as to motive:

Russian author Joseph Daichman, in his book "History of the Mossad" states Israel was justified in attacking the Liberty. Israel knew that American radio signals were being intercepted by the Soviet Union. They also knew that the Soviets would certainly inform Egypt of the fact that, by moving troops to the Golan Heights, Israel had left the Egyptian border undefended. That is, the US was intercepting Israeli planning communications, and the US reports on these communications were being intercepted by the Russians who, in turn, were supplying them to the Egyptians.

The Liberty represented a very serious threat to Israel's survival.

Oh - and the concept that a single attack 44 years ago, mistaken or deliberate, somehow balances the almost weekly suicide bombs that have the specific objective of shredding and maiming innocent people in market places is truly ludicrous!

There is a timeline at the website which was set up to honor the American victims of the Isareli
and U.S. Military. Most of it follows. Please keep in mind that Lyndon Johnso was actually Jewish on hi maternel side and he was an ardent Zionist. It appears Kannin the Zionist, thinks the men on the Liberty deserved their fate. Typical Zionist, they even hate their benefactors.

June 8, 1967, Israeli forces attack the USS Liberty. They kill 34 American servicemen,
wounding 171 others. It will be the highest casualty rate ever inflicted on a
U.S. naval vessel, with 7 out of every 10 crew members killed or injured. It
will also be the only peacetime attack on a U.S. naval vessel that, to this
day, the Congress of the United States of America formally refuses to
investigate.

2 June 1967. Liberty departs Rota at top speed of 18 knots en route to a point 13 miles off the Gaza
Strip, well within international waters.

5 June 1967, 7:45 (all times cited are local Liberty time). Israel attacks Egypt, simultaneously
putting out false reports that Egypt had attacked first. Captain McGonagle asks
Vice Admiral William Martin at Sixth Fleet headquarters to send a destroyer as
an armed escort and auxiliary communication center, noting that Liberty's
"self defense capability limited to four .50 caliber machine guns and
small arms."

6 June
1967. Admiral Martin replies "Liberty is clearly marked United States ship
in international waters, not a participant in the conflict and not a reasonable
subject for attack by any nation . . . Request for escort denied."

7 June
1967, shortly before midnight. Office of the U.S. Defense Attaché in Tel Aviv
sends coded message to U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) that Israel intends
to attack the Liberty if her course is not changed.

8 June 1967:

1000: Two unmarked,
rocket-armed, delta-winged jets circle Liberty three times. Liberty officers
can count rockets and see the pilots, but see no identifying marks on the
plane. The jets radio Israeli headquarters that the ship is flying an American
flag.

1030: Israeli "flying boxcar" with Israeli markings circles
Liberty at about 200 feet. Crew member Larry Weaver says, "I was actually
able to wave to the co-pilot, a fellow on the right-hand side of the plane. He
waved back, and actually smiled at me."

1055: Pinchas Pinchasy, naval liaison officer at Israeli air force
headquarters, reports to Naval Headquarters that the ship cruising slowly off
El Arish is "an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy,
named Liberty, whose marking was GTR-5."

1100 & 1130: Israeli reconnaissance aircraft again circle Liberty.

1205: Three Israeli motor torpedo boats leave Ashdod at high speed headed
toward Liberty. They are followed by Israeli air force fighters, loaded with
30mm cannon ammunition, rockets, and napalm.

1215 & 1245: Israeli reconnaissance aircraft again circle Liberty.

1341: Israeli torpedo boats spot Liberty and call for an immediate air strike.

1358: Two unmarked delta-winged Mirage jets attack Liberty. After taking out
gun mounts, they target ship's antennae and bridge with heat-seeking missiles.

1405: Three unmarked Dassault Mystère IIIC jets attack with napalm and
rockets. Ship tries to contact Sixth Fleet headquarters, but five of Liberty's
six shore circuits are jammed. Radio operator manages to send distress signal
from Captain McGonagle: "Under attack by unidentified jet aircraft,
require immediate assistance." Attack lasts approximately 22 minutes,
involving 30 to 35 sorties, killing nine men and wounding around 60. Israeli
pilot reports to base: "Great, wonderful, she's burning, she's
burning."

1409: Captain Joe Tully of the USS Saratoga acknowledges call for help,
dispatches four F-4 Phantom jets, and informs Liberty that help is on the way.
Within minutes U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara orders rescue jets to
return: : "Tell Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back
immediately." Rear Admiral Geis relays message and tells them to re-launch
jets in 90 minutes.

1424: Three French-built 62-ton Israeli motor torpedo boats approach Liberty in
attack formation. Because the Israeli fighters had destroyed the American flag,
Captain McGonagle orders the signalman to hoist the "holiday ensign,"
the largest flag the ship has.

1435: Torpedo boats launch five German-made 19-inch torpedoes at Liberty.
One torpedo strikes starboard directly into NSA area, accounting for 25 of the
34 men who would be killed. Torpedo boats then circle, machine-gunning the ship
with armor-piercing projectiles for another 40 minutes.

1450: Commander of Sixth Fleet orders carriers USS America and USS Saratoga to
send aircraft to defend Liberty.

1500: NSA Sigint Command Center receives first notice of the attack from either
the America or Saratoga: "USS Liberty has been reportedly torpedoed by
unknown source in Med near 32N 33E. Request examine all communications for
possible reaction/reflections and report accordingly."

1505: Message sent to Liberty from Sixth Fleet: "Sending aircraft to cover
you. Surface units on the way." Liberty is off the air and does not
receive the message.

1511: First "official" notice that Liberty is under attack reaches
National Military Command Center in Washington.

1515: After the order to "prepare to abandon ship" comes over the
loudspeaker system, the lifeboats are lowered into the water. Israeli torpedo
boats move in closer and fire on them, as well as those still on deck, making
them all unusable. "I watched with horror as the floating life rafts were
riddled with holes," recalled Lieutenant Lloyd Painter, in charge of the
evacuation. Said Petty Officer Rowley, who also witnessed the event: "They
didn't want anyone to live." After destroying the life rafts, the Israeli
boats departed. Next, two Israeli SA-321 Super Frelon Hornet assault
helicopters carrying soldiers in battle dress circle ship several times, then
depart.

1600: Liberty transmits: "Flash, flash, flash. I pass in the blind. We
are under attack by aircraft and high-speed surface craft." Deputy
Director Louis Tordella is informed by Deputy Director of Joint Reconnaissance
Center, Captain Vineyard, that "consideration was then being given by some
unnamed Washington authorities to sink the Liberty in order that newspaper men
would be unable to photograph her and thus inflame public opinion against the
Israelis." Tordella makes an "impolite" comment about the idea,
writes a memo of the conversation for the record, and stores it away.

1639: Secretary of Defense McNamara again orders rescue planes recalled;
order is confirmed by President Johnson because "we are not going to
embarrass an ally." Naval Air Attaché at U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv,
Commander Ernest Castle, is summoned to Israeli Defense Forces headquarters.

1729: Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, commander of the Sixth Fleet in the
Mediterranean, protests decision to recall rescue planes to Secretary of
Defense McNamara. At that point President Johnson comes on the phone and says
he didn't care if the ship sunk, he would not embarrass his allies. Admiral Geis
tells Lt. Commander David Lewis, head of the Liberty's NSA group, of the
remark, but asks him not to repeat it until after he dies. It is a promise
Lewis will honor.

9 June 1967:

After midnight: Soviet guided missile
destroyer sends flashing-light message in English: "Do you need
help?" Liberty responds: "No thank you." Soviets answer: "I
will stand by in case you need me."

0600: USS Navy destroyers Davis and Massey
arrive.

Mid-morning: Dead and wounded are evacuated by helicopter.

1450: Israeli Lt. Col. Michael Bloch telephones Commander Castle that Liberty, because
it was not flying a flag, had been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El
Queseir. State Department assures Congress that attack was accidental.

10 June 1967: Vice Admiral McCain orders Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd to convene
Navy Court of Inquiry.

11 June 1967: Admiral Kidd boards Liberty
with small staff to head Navy Court of Inquiry.

14 June 1967: Liberty arrives in Malta. Total
news blackout imposed. Rear Admiral Kidd warns crew: "You are never,
repeat never, to discuss this with anyone, not even your wives. If you do, you
will be court-martialed and will end your lives in prison or worse."
Secretary of Defense McNamara informs media that, "Department of Defense
will have no further comment."

15 June 1967: Secretary of State Dean Rusk
tells NATO ambassadors in Luxembourg that Israel's attack was deliberate. His
remark is reported in European, but not U.S. papers.

18 June 1967: Israeli Court of Inquiry
exonerates Israeli government and all those involved, saying that its torpedo
boats erroneously reported the Liberty's speed at 30 knots instead of 5, and
that the Liberty flew no flag and had no identifying markings. Later, Israel
will honor Motor Torpedo Boat 203, the one that fired the deadly torpedo at the
Liberty, by putting its wheel and bell on display in its naval museum, among
those maritime items of which it is most proud.

July 1967: Shortly after the burial of six
Liberty crewmen in Arlington National Cemetery, a monument is erected
describing the six as having "Died in the Eastern Mediterranean."
Liberty survivors complain that the marking is evasive and improper.

September 1967: State Department legal
adviser Carl Salans finds many discrepancies with the Israeli report. His
report is classified Top Secret.

11 June 1968: Captain McGonagle is awarded
the Congressional Medal of Honor. The Medal, usually presented by the President
of the United States at the White House, is presented by the Secretary of the
Navy during a hastily arranged ceremony at the Washington D.C. Navy Yard.
Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, the Chief of Naval Operations, calls the way the
Medal is presented a back-handed slap. "Everyone else received their medal
at the White House," Moorer will later observe. "President Johnson
must have been concerned about the reaction of the Israeli lobby."

1980: National Security Agency Director
Marshall Carter tells investigative author James Bamford that, regarding the
attack on the Liberty, "There was no other answer than that it was
deliberate."

1981: National Security Agency review,
"Attack on a Sigint Collector, the USS Liberty Incident," rejects the
Israeli Court of Inquiry's "mistake" theory and accuses Israeli
fighter pilots and torpedo boat crewmen and commanders of perjury.

1982: Israeli senior lead pilot approaches
former Congressman Pete McCloskey and admits that he recognized the Liberty as
American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the
American flag and continue his attack. He said he refused to do so and returned
to base, where he was arrested.

6 October 1982: A new headstone for the six
Liberty crew members at Arlington National Cemetery is unveiled. This one
reads: "Killed USS Liberty June 8, 1967."

1986: Lt. Commander Walter H. Jacobsen writes
in Naval Law Review: "To speculate on the motives of an attack group that
uses unmarked planes and deprives helpless survivors of life rafts raises
disturbing possibilities, including the one that the Liberty crew was not meant
to survive the attack..."

6 November 1991: Columnists Evans and Novak
publish interview with Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967, in
which Porter says that during or immediately after the attack on the Liberty
the CIA station chief showed him transcripts of intercepted Israeli messages.
One has Israel ordering the attack on the Liberty, another has an Israeli pilot
replying it's an American ship. When the order to attack is repeated, the pilot
insists he can see the American flag. The pilot is told again: "Attack
it."

8 June 1997: Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, appointed
Chief of Naval Operations shortly after the attack on the Liberty, tells a
reunion of survivors: "I have to conclude that it was Israel's intent to
sink the Liberty and leave as few survivors as possible. Israel knew perfectly
well that the ship was American."

November 1998: Captain McGonagle breaks his
long silence: "After many years I finally believe that the attack was
deliberate. I don't think there has been an adequate investigation of the
incident . . . The flag was flying prior to the attack..." McGonagle will
die four months later, on March 3, 1999.

Kannin posts:

Israel was justified in attacking the Liberty

For decades zionists argued that the attack was an accident. That canard has grown thinner and flimser with time. But the boldness of zionists and their lack of fear and respect for the US has grown deeper and heavier.

They now feel comfortable in arguing that they were JUSTIFIED IN ATTACKING THE USS LIBERTY.

The zionists methodically

me...thod...ical...ly

shot up one liferaft and then

me...thod...ical...ly

shot up the next and then the next liferaft.

The fingerprints are clear. Rather than trying to disrupt communication
THEY WERE TRYING TO KILL EACH AND EVERY WITNESS ON BOARD

THE USS LIBERTY.

I guess they learned from the best. Us. Let's not forget how much our own government has done or planned in order to further their own agenda. Planning attacks on American towns, etc. Sounds like the U.S. is just as much guilty as the Israelis in this situation. It's in a declared war zone and an Admiral denies a request for an escort? Why? I understand that it's an American ship, but in a war zone with no escort? Really? I would assume that the Admiral was subsequently court-marshalled and sentenced to life imprisonment, no? And I'm guessing we didn't accidentally shoot up some reporters from a helicopter in Iraq either did we. We're so much better than them, so much better.

Anilof,

You posted three times in the discussion about this article. All three...all three used the same rhetorical fallacy, Tu Quoque.

"It is clear that a tu quoque response to an accusation can never refute the accusation. Consider the following:

Wilma: You cheated on your income tax. Don't you realize that's wrong?
Walter: Hey, wait a minute. You cheated on your income tax last year. Or have you forgotten about that?

Walter may be correct in his counter-accusation, but that does not show that Wilma's accusation is false."
(W. Hughes and J. Lavery, Critical Thinking, Broadview, 2004)

http://grammar.about.com/od/tz/g/tuquoqueterm.htm

Ah, the logical fallacy crew are out this morning not really contributing anything. I guess the authors of the posts that I replied to did not use:

Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.

1. Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
2. Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.

http://carm.org/logical-fallacies-or-fallacies-argumentation

I wasn't disputing the account because I haven't looked up the precise details myself, I just was pointing out the hypocrisy. Granted, the Native American thing happened a few centuries ago, but the helicopter incident in Iraq happened a lot more recent than the U.S.S. Liberty attack.

The point still remains that terrible mistakes are made during war, especially in war zones. What is the logical fallacy with that?

Israel persists in building settlements in Jeruslem

Settlements??? In Jerusalem? The City of David? The city that the Jews built thousands of years ago?

Are we talking about the same Jerusalem here? Are you perhaps equally guilty of building a settlement in your own home, too?

@Kannin

outdated BS... ever hear of the Diaspora?

DAK - and how did this diaspora come about?

The Diaspora. Are you suggesting that the Romans had a right to expel Jews from their native land? What gave them the right?

I guess the same right we had to expel the Native Americans from their land. I guess Mikeyknows is at peace with the fact that his house is built on property that was killed for and stolen. But that's us, it's ok if we do it. Just nobody else.

at least the American Indians have a superceing precent of being in the New World before the muslim Arabs invaded and conquered the Jewish Homeland after the Romans and Christians tenderized the place. Like The Native Americans who have more real estate in their homeland who are free to buy land Anywhere in America, live in America and keep their heads the pesky Jew?zionists persisted and persists. Both have survived holocaust. And No one ever says "a good Zionist is a Dead one".

They can't play the victim card, the Palestinians do that, so the Israelis have to come up with something else.

There was supposed to be a self-defence card, but that doesn't seem to work lately.

All that's left is leave-me-alone-or-I-kick-your-ass card.

Christian anti-semitism is based mostly on feelings of insecurity emanating from the fact that sequels are never as good or as important as the original and Christianity is Judaism's sequel.

Wow! Very well said, Jeff!