Once a nation obtains nuclear weapons, its primary goal becomes not to use them, but to prevent new countries from obtaining them.

The only logical reason for such a public dispute in nation known for secrecy is that Netanyahu had made the decision to attack Iran, and his political enemies are going public to try to undermine his efforts.

It will probably work, but at the same time it will encourage Iran to continue with their weapons development, having little to fear from an attack, and using their standard 'stall tactics' on Obama.

Iran's next step will be to agree to lengthy 'talks' about their nuclear program, making vague promises of 'cooperation', and then, at the last minute make some unreasonable demands that cause the 'talks' to break down - That should buy them another 12 months or so to develop their bomb.

Works every time.

I very seldom agree with @Roy Wilson. But this time I agree with him 100%. The Isreali people are about 60-70% AGAINST a pre-emptive strike against Iran. But it appears from the head of the Israeli military, the purged heads of both the domestic intelligence service and the Mossad, as well as a former defense minister, and now the more recent prime minister all speaking out against a pre-emptive strike, that these well-connected politicos have indise information that the decision has already been made and they are trying to sabotage the decision that they see as ill-conceived.

Either way Iran will be encouraged, at least to the point of developing its nuclear capability just short of actually making a weapon. If Israel tries a missile or air strike, it will not be strong enough to do much damage to Iran or its nuclear facilities which are hardened and dispersed. This would give Iran an excuse to retaliate, most likely against a US capital ship in the Persian Gulf or transiting the Straits of Hormuz. If the protests of curent, purged, and former leaders continue, Iran will be convinced that the 60-70% of Israelis who oppose such a strike are taking over and that opposition to their nuclear program will abate.

The US, Israel, Iran: the common problem is religious extremists having an undue influence on policy -- because when they speak they are the ones who are loudest.

It's like the Enlightenment never happened and instead we are living during the crusades. Which maybe also explains why our the economic mode seems to have become feudalism.

It is truly scary when deranged zealots like Netanyahu and Khamenei are in the driver's seat.

So far, our govt. has thankfully been very thoughtful and measured instead of cowboying around. And by the way, the sanctions are working brilliantly.

I wish Israeli right wingers, like Netanyahu, would just cool it down a bit. I for one don't want America dragged into a war, when diplomacy can work, because this hothead is itching to attack Iran.

@Motz,

This "hothead" is not so much itching to start a war as he is trying to keep his job by keeping constant paranoid attention focused on an existential foreign enemy. This is most likely modeled after GW Bush's successful efforts in the same way.

Olmert is yet another has-been and sore loser with his $.02, just like Diskin a few days before.

Motz, if we got to war to defeat our enemies that are at threat to us, I have no problem with it. If we send our men and women over there to be killed trying to 'befriend' our enemy, I am with you.

But, I don't think Israel will be trying to make friends, so that is a good thing.

This would give Iran an excuse to retaliate, most likely against a US capital ship in the Persian Gulf or transiting the Straits of Hormuz.

Ridiculous, you have been watching too much war propaganda. They would hit Israel as hard as they could and encourage Russia and China every way they can to tell us to keep out or risk them getting involved.

Well said. It's refreshing to hear sane voices on the subject of Israel, both yours and Barak's...not surprising that he was booed by a group that wants to keep thier hands in our pockets. For my part, I'll never forget that Israel murdered 2 dozen American sailors in an act that would have resulted in war, had any other country done it. Inexcusable. With friends like these...

The US should be at the forefront of curbing the the rhetoric of war in Israel. Even the threat of an attack strengthens the hold of the Iranian theocracy and is counter productive. I worked with a man that came from the poor side of town. He would never admit he was wrong because that was a sign of weakness. I learned rather quickly that if I was to be a help to him, I could state the truth but never ask for him to admit that I was right. We developed a good, mutually respectful, working relationship on that basis and I was able to teach him much of what I knew about electronics. Let the Iranians have their bluster and concentrate on helping them understand that this is the 21st century. Lifting all sanctions as an act of good will might produce a surprising response.

"Benny And The Jets" ........... hurts Israels' credibility .... worldwide.

Time to steep down Benny ... this isn't a rock and roll song, it's reality .. Stop the warmongering .... make peace with your neighbors ..before it's too late!

@Square Dude,

This is the nature of rogue states. Rogue states manage to seize control of certain aspects of the relationship with sponsor countries. They do this through intimidation, deception, manipulation, or simply by making themselves so much trouble that they are not worth the effort to disengage. Essentially there is no difference between China's relationship with North Korea and our relationship with Israel.

In both relationships a tiny, completely dependent country controls much of the rhetoric and siphons huge amounts of money from the sponsor. And both countries have the potential to lead the sponsor countries into unwanted and potentially devastating war. Both North Korea and Israel get around 18% of their total budgets from the sponsor countries. And both rogue states are both internally dysfunctional and externally all about paranoid existential threats. And both states are nuclear-armed and possess huge militaries ---- far larger than most countries around them.

Both China and the USA need to wake up and stop feeding these vicious dogs. They are both tiny countries who can be cut off completely in order to bring them to their senses.

$69 billion budget for Israel, $3 billion from U.S. = 4%

@softdude,

That was an extremely thoughtful and well-thought-out post! Thanks.

@Procrusted.

1) The Israeli budged is $61 billion for two years. Their budgets are done every two years. This means that it must be compared to $6 billion in US military aid.

2) We give the Israeli's a steep discount on weapons. We then repay the difference to the manufacturers by allowing them to spread it over existing defense contracts. This amounts to an average of $1.8 billion a year. We finance major arms purchases and pick up the interest tab on those. We have hundreds of millions in "joint development" of military hardware --- that only benefits Israel and makes massive technology transfers to Israel.

3) The difference between the budget and what is committed to be spent ($61 versus 69 billion) is deficit spending. The US Treasury picks up the Israeli Treasury bonds to fund their deficit. Israel doesn't even bother with interest payments and they never repay the principal. These bonds just keep getting rolled over.

4) The US is committed to $3.1 billion a year in military aid for the next 10 years. We tried in the past to give both military and economic aid, but Israel simply shifted an equal amount from civilian to military spending, so eventually we stopped the charade. It was increased to $3.1 billion and extended until 2022 just recently. So far we have given Israel over $115 billion in grants and about an equal amount is discounts, interest, and finaning of the huge Israeli deficit.

5) Israel has also made income that required the US to look the other way. For example, when the US was enforcing sanctions against South Africa in a successful attempt to end Apartheid, Israel bought oil on the open market and sold it to South Africa, sold them nuclear secrets and missile technology, and acted as a surrogate to allow South Africa to get around sanctions. Good ally, no!

Remember the USS Liberty. I had friends on that ship.

Procrustes - 3 billion back in our pockets sounds like a better idea. I'd rather use it here at home..i.e.give some to NASA to revitalize the program.

Israel has a huge and excellent military and defense industry. See below

www.imi-israel.com

The joint programs transfer technology both ways. Their Iron Dome system can protect our troops as well. When they buy a jet from us they put their own electronics packages on them.

I remember the Liberty for the colossal blunder it was. You don't send an unarmed spy ship into a war zone and expect good things to happen. You need to remember what Teddy Roosevelt said:

Christianity was saved in Europe solely because the peoples of Europe fought. If the peoples of Europe in the seventh and eighth centuries, an on up to and including the seventeenth century, had not possessed a military equality with, and gradually a growing superiority over the Mohammedans who invaded Europe, Europe would at this moment be Mohammedan and the Christian religion would be exterminated.

That still applies. Don't take your eye off the ball.

Mary

I agree with you on this one.

Israel must back off on Iran and soon . Could just be a game that Iran is playing . But Israel must stop being the big bully on the block . Their land grabbing and control of the captured territory must stop . If not than there is no chance for peace their.

bob

If they are truly a US ally then Israel should back off Iran and put the pressure on Pakistan. Iraq didn't have the WMDs, Iran doesn't have them - Pakistan does. Iraq wasn't protecting Bin Laden, neither was Iran - Pakistan was. It's Pakistan and always has been.

But, but, but- Iran has called for the destruction of Israel so many times!

(Let's just ignore all of the current calls to bomb Iran to glass)

<sarcasm>

UDunnoBro you definitely know what you're talking about!

The only problem though is if Iran doesn attack Israel...nuclear or not...and they manage to wipe Israel off of the map what will we do? Just sit back and be like..."oops?"

@stonedog,

If you do a little research, Iran has called for Isreal to be "wiped off the map of history." This was in a UN speech by Achmninjad (sp?). The soundbite media and rightist press carefully edited the comment to make it sound much worse than it was. The essential point of discussion of that part of his long and rambling speech was the Israel's borders have constantly expended every single year since its founding. It was a call to return to the 11/29/47 borders and compensation for Arabs driven from their homes and lands who cannot return or reclaim them. Blowing this up into a call for the physical destruction of Israel is a much different matter than calling for it to return to its borders established by the UN.

If this country had acted like Israel --- illegally annexing chunks of land, then agreeing to stop the proactice, then annexing more land, agreeing to stop again, and so on ad infinitum --- proportionally toward Canada, both Montreal and Toronto would be in the United States. I don't thnik the Canadians would agree with it as good national policy on anyone's part, especially since the US can back it up with a vast nuclear arsenal whereas Canada has no nukes.

Chris, being wiped off the map of history...like Troy or Carthage...sounds pretty bad to me.

Cass. the latest critic from Olmert has re-affirm nittyahoo's warmongering posture is getting more and more rejected by his countrymen. I have always maintain nittyahoo is a danger to the world peace and should be ousted and the government run by rational politicians instead.

A nuclear armed Iran may not a bad thing as this provides a military balance in the region and then the MAD symdrone prevails.

Why is Israel allowed to have Nuclear Weapons, but others are not?

I expect the Mossad to send in their goons to this forum newsvine very soon and for them to start shutting down post. Right?

We should send in inspectors to inspect Israel's Nukes, unannounced in a surprise inspection, right?

And this is my opinion.

Because when an ally of ours is surrounded by many, much larger enemies its easier to just give our ally nukes. It throws the MAD card into the pot. Otherwise Egypt, Syria, Jordan etc would have just wiped them out long ago. Same with South Korea.

@thatguy.

1) Why do you call Israel an "ally"? Being allies with another country is a two-way street. Name just one time when Israel has acted as an ally and offered the IDF to support any military or political goal that did not have Israel as the direct and sole beneficiary? I could easily name 50 occasions when they have done just the opposite.

2) Being surrounded by "much large enemies" is a myth. The IDF is larger than the militaries of all the neighboring countries except Egypt combined (and it is much larger than Egypt's) and is much better equipped than all the other countries combined (paid for by the American taxpayers.)

3) We did not just "give our ally nukes." Israel hijacked three ships (one Canadian and two African) at sea to obtain the yellowcake that allowed them to jumpstart their nuclear program. (Israel has no significant uranium reserves, unlike Iran.) They used spies to steal advanced nuclear weapons designs and even key components. We actually have caught more Israeli spies than all the Cold War opponents combined. Most of these spies are routinely freed to serve out the remainder of their sentences in Israeli jails as a "humanitarian gesture." In fact, Israel welcomes them as heroes and they do not serve another day in jail.

4) MAD --- mutually assured destruction --- only is a valid military strategy when both sides are similarly armed in type and quality of weaponry. It was an option with the old Soviet Union and is an option with China. But when one side has 200 nukes and the missiles to deliver them long range, and the othe sides have xero, what is "mutual" about that.

5) Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon have tried it more than once --- and failed.

6) South Korea is in a horrible position that is much. much different. If the North were to attack there, 40% of South Korea's population and industry, its political and financial capitals, its major port, and all forward-deployed US and RoK military personnel and facilities would be destroyed in the first minutes of the attack. A completely different position, since South Korea is not "surrounded: by enemies.

Wheeeere to begin.

1. If you net the benefits/expenses of most of our allies you will see that we GIVE much more than we RECEIVE. Hell we basically ARE the U.N. as far as military equipment contributed. We ARE NATO. Remember a few weeks ago when a Canadian airplane was presumed to have a bomb onboard and Canada asked US to take care of it? Just because we dont "get anything out of it" doesnt mean we arent allies. Do you pick your friends this way? If so I wouldnt want to be your friend.

2. You're comparing Israels compulsory forces to their neighbors' active forces I take it? Because if all of the Arab neighbors "called upon" those fit for service in their countries then IDF would be screwed. Egypt alone has 87 million people...

3. http://news.bbc.co.uk /2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4789832.stm We gave them nukes. Dig deeper.

4. When nukes are involved there will always be MAD.

Anyways there is some serious hating going on here against Israel from Americans. Which is sad considering Israel is hated by those that also hate us. What happened to "The Enemy of mine enemy is my friend?" Israel may be getting some shiny coins from us, but they arent the ones screaming "death to America."

@thatguy,

1) All I said is that alliace should be a two-way street. With Israel, it closer to a money pit then an alliance. And yes, I do not have friends who are 100% take and 0% give and since you believe that freeloading is perfectly okay, I would probably not choose you for a friend.

2) I use CIA Factbook forces and the term they use is "effective" forces. Reserves if they can be called up and sent directly into combat. They are ineffective if they require more than 120 days before they are ready. Since I was trained as an intelligence analyst, I use the military definitions of forces. To call up "fit for service" is a bogus term that is irrelevant, making it a straw man. If the US wanted to call up those "fit for service" it would take an estimated 7-10 years.

3) Your BBC link is not persistent so I can reference if. But the BBC did reveal that some individuals and departments cooperated with Israel to develop both nuclear power and weapons as did the French. The situation was very different in Israel where secrets and difficult to manufacture components were stolen by Israeli spies. That would be a little like saying that you "gave" a robber your wallet. Technically true, but not a statement that stands on its own.

4) MAD is defined in wikipedia as "Mutual Assurred Destruction is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of high-yield weapons of mass destruction by two opposing sides would effectively result in the complete, utter and irrevocable annihilation of both the attacker and the defender." When only one side has enough high-yield weapons to accomplish the goal, it is just asymmetrical force, not MAD.

And I am less than lukewarm toward Israel. I had friends abord the USS Liberty and have listened to the NSA tapes of the destruction of the Navy ship with my own ears. Israel doesn't necessarily need to be liked, but it should NEVER be trusted.

The Bible says Israel will be attacked and by not eliminating the Iran threat now

What the f*ck makes you think that man can stop the "will of 'god'"?

Christians and zionist Jews crack me up. They will lie, deceive, and twist their own perverted beliefs beyond recognition in order to try and convince others to do what they want.

It now appears that more and more former Israeli leaders, such as the Israeli general, former spy chief and now Olmert now agree with me, that Iran is not the threat that Netanyahu and the crazed war mongering Zionists on therse forums have been promoting. The idiot has been so wrong so many times and yet the Zionist fools still digest every lie, as though it were the word of their god. All they want is more wars and Americans to fight them. No more wars for Israel.

'1992:'Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his
colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear
weapon – and that the threat had to be "uprooted by an international front
headed by the US"'. (Hey Procrustes, that was 20 years ago and still no nukes.)

Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in
an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and
Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became
the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon
officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and
Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s
not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death
in this war based on lies.

The above is a portion of the real cost of our "special relationship" with Israel.

The voice of reason from America's stand point has been the current administration. The GOP is repeatedly criticizing this Administration for being to weak against Iran and not supporting Israeli enough. It has been reported that Romney claims to be a close friend of Benjamin Netanyahu, so where will this relationship take the United States. After all it was a Republican Administration that lied to us and got us into a war with Iraq.

TonyPA...where exactly does the Bible say that? I've read it many times over the course of many years and that doesn't sound familiar. Where? Also, in the book of Romans, in says that the Israel of God is no longer the fleshly nation of Israel but the Christian congregation. The nation of Israel turned their back on God several millenia ago and Jesus made it crystal clear- even to a conservative- in the 23rd Chapter of Matthew that he was through with them. You really shouldn't misrepresent the Bible this way. It makes both you and the Bible look bad. Israel made their bed. Let them sleep in it. I suspect that if the US stopped backing them, you'd see Israel much more willing to have peace and give back land they have stolen.

The Bible says

There we go. When I see this, the rest of a post is typically not worth considering.

There will be a short pause until Ralph H tells us, once again, that the Jews killed Jesus.

Cassandra - Here is an example of Israeli thinking:

There is of course no reason for Israel to have
submarines capable of delivering nuclear warheads to any target in the world –
unless of course, it needs them to attack other nations, as predicted by of the
Israeli military historian, Martin van Creveld, who in 2010 said that “Israel
could find itself one day forced to exterminate the European continent using
all kinds of weapons including its nuclear arsenal if it felt its demise
neared,” and stressed that “Israel also considers Europe a hostile target.”

“We have hundreds of nuclear warheads and
missiles that can reach different targets in the heart of the European
continent, including beyond the borders of Rome, the Italian capital,” Creveld
said, adding that most of the European capitals would become preferred targets
for the Israeli air force.

He reiterated “Israel’s ability to destroy the
whole world whenever it felt its existence would be doomed to extinction.”

April 18,
2012

Self delusion like believing that Ronnie Raygun actually lowered taxes ? Or that he was strong in foreign policy (running from Lebanon after all those Marines were murdered? Failing to get Qhaddafi? Conquering mighty Granada?)? Or that he wouldn't buckle to terrorists (arming Al-queda? Iran?)?

Or that today's 'conservatives' wouldn't consider him a socialist liberal celebrity ?

Is that the kind of self delusion you're referring too?

Clinton was yet another wimp as he did nothing after the first WTC bombing. There's also the USS COLE incident. Interns..., I got to admitt Clinton demonstrated their usefulness.

LMAO @ 7.62.. With a name like that, one can only infer what you mean.. Typical right wing d bag who has to use to force to get things accomplished. Nice flag moron.. FYI, America was Socialist before Obama was even thought about, it happened back in the 1930s when Social Security was enacted.. I guess Kosovo didn't happen under Clinton? I guess 9/11 happened under Obama eh? King George started 3 wars, 9/11, Afghanistan and Iraq.. Iraq was payback for his daddies attempted assassination by Saddams henchmen, only after Bush the dad tried to assassinate Saddam Hussein, long before we entered the Gulf War.. Bush lied about WMDs to the world from trumped up info from our supposed friends Israel. you know, the ones we prop up with $4 Billion a year and weapons.

Israel is the trump card that will bring Americas downfall. Israel only cares about the lies they peddle to America and the world about their false religion and how they are the true ones, etc.. Israels rants and raves are very old and WE need to stop being their friends.. America would be wise to stop cockolding the Israels and the American Jews.. We must NOT get involved in a war with another Muslim nation, if we do, our intentions to the world will be clear, that we A: Hate Muslims and B: We only want the oil.. Nothing more, nothing less. Americas friendship with Israel is the wall that separates Peace from War.. The longer we prop up Israel while trying to gain peace with the Middle-East the longer the Christian and Jewish holy wars will continue..

America first. Let the UN deal with Iran, Israel and the others. No nation is running to the UN to block Americas attempt to gain new nuclear weapons, as approved by the Bush regime in 2006 and a new nuclear power plant (for peaceful purposes?) signed into law by President Obama, Yet the world must stop a sovereign nation from gaining power to help bring their nation up to the modern age of utilities. America and OUR leaders and those screaming for Iran to stop threatening Israel are just kowtowing to the Jews. Israel was saved by America in WW2, why do we pay them? THEY need to support the United States for once, not just with words..

@7.62x39,

The Clinton administration did a little more than "nothing" after the first WTC bombing. The perps and their leader ware apprehended, tried, and are still in prison. Chinton did not use it as an opportunity to destroy an uninvolved country or to spend billions upon billions on making the public paranoid. And, by doing so, he cast the Egyptians who set up the bombing as nothing more that common criminals. Not martyrs or terrorists or enemy combatants --- just common run-of-the-mill criminals. Even the Muslim world saw that as well-handled.

The Cole Incident was responded to immediately by Clinton who tried twice to kill bin Laden. The first time could never have succeeded because of bad intelligence. The second failed because the order to kill bin Laden took over 24 hours to wind its way through the military bureaucracy and by the time the missiles arrived, bin Laden had already left.

Clinton actually did far, far more against al-Quaeda and bin Laden than all the GW Bush/Cheney years. And it was Obama who killed bin Laden. But even then Clinton gets some of the credit since Clinton reorganized the military chain-of-command so that the lag time between the order and the actual "munitions are committed" was less than 20 minutes, instead of the 24+ hours that it was when Clinton put on the CiC hat.

And the "intern" comment is called a "straw man" argument and is worthless.

Making statements that are lies are what a liar does.

7.62x39mm

Interesting you use the Soviet round as your name instead of the American 7.62X51 NATO round.

We don't -need- to do anything. Iran does not represent a threat to the US. Over-reacting to Iran, however, does represent a threat to us. You might remember how we are still regretting attacking a neighboring country.

Let's not listen to Olmert, huh? Let's listen to a tin-pot Messiah convinced of his own infallibility.

@ Byron, you are 100% correct.

The ones Iran pose a threat to are the American Jews who send billions home to the motherland for the continued holy war with Islam. America got involved with Iraq after lies from Israel about Iraqs connection to A: 9-11 and B: the cooked up WMD information peddled by Colin Powell.

Israel must be left to their own devices. America cannot and should not support them in any unilateral strike on Iran, who is a sovereign nation, just like we are.. Why do we need to support Israel D McMillen? You stated that, now explain, or give a reason.

I say NO more support for Israel, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. Stop giving billions to the nation of Jordan just to leave Israel alone, that our policy, has been for decades. America spends more rebuilding other nations than rebuilding our own. And when we finally have a President who is smart enough to focus on the homeland, OUR homeland, not the world, he is lambasted as being weak on foreign policy. So what, being stronger at home, makes you stronger in the world. Being stronger in the world first only makes you weak at home. Just look at what has happened over the last 30 years when most of the Presidencies and Congress were Republicant controlled. Our nations infrastructure has failed miserably, taxes being slashed has been a major culprit. But also our continued fascination with conquering the world, in the face of all the history which proves it doesn't work, but we continue anyways, is killing America.

Back their play, I don't think so. Please sign your son up for the up coming war. VP Biden goes to Israel, as soon as the plane lands, they announce more settlements being built. Two weeks later Nut-ten-yahoo is own his way to America and over 300 members of congress signs and send a letter to the POTUS requesting him to be nice to "BeBe". Where was their outrage over the slap in the face given to VP Biden.

I just got out of the Army, and don't have a son to go in. You guys seem to really hate Israel, who basically stands alone in the midst of enemies. Blaming the bad old Jews is an old game, but most of you say you are not racists. Sounds like it to me. I would rather fight to preserve Israels preservation than any of the muslim countries, and if that makes me sound racist, in that regards, I agree.

@square dude,

You hit the nail on the head. Iran is much farther from Israel than Iraq is. Iran's nuclear facilities are extremely well-hardened and the Iranians have had considerable input from North Korea on how to do hardened sites right. A good example is the nuclear site north of Qom. You can see it on Google Earth or any number of other satellite photography sites. The facility is bored into a basalt at the apex of a u-shaped mountain. There is only one axis of attack. If you scan back from that axis you will see that there are an incredible number of AAA positions, both guns and missiles with redundant radars all over the place. Atacking that site with a manned tactical fighter strike would be suicide. Attacking if from any other angle would cause insignificant damage, and even a Tomahawk would be more easily shot down that a manned jet.

Israel was at the extreme outter edge of the IDF strike envelope. Their in-air refueling capability is tiny. For its fighter-bombers to hit Iran and return would require at 4-6 in-air refuelings. And even that is assuming that the IDF aircraft would massively fly over unfriendly countries such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Any overflown country would immediately notify Iran that the crap was about to hit the fan. The US is committed to protecting the sovereignty of both Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

In order to mount an attack against Iran, US assistance would be required. And the end result would be that if we helped, we could kiss what little remaining regional influence we have goodbye.

The Iranian nuclear sites are very well dug in and defended and dispersed. So much so, that the IDF would only be able to hit a very small part of them. Bunker buster or MOAB bombs would be useless against most of the targets. There is a high likelihood that the Russians have supplied at least some S-400 missile defense systems to Iran. The IDF has no aircraft that can really penetrate an S-400-defended site with any reliability. US stealth aircraft woulod have to take out the air defenses for Israel to have a prayer.

The problem of getting back home would be huge. Saudi, UAE, Jordanian, Iraqi and possibly Egyptian fighters and missiles would be sent up against the returning figheres, c&c aircraft, and refueling aircraft.

My guess is that if Israel was to attack, that it would only make token strikes against the nuclear sites, but would concentrate on Iranian oil and refinery targets --- refineries, POL storage facilities, oil pumping and transshipment facilities, oil terminals, oil platforms in the Gulf, etc. These are not hardened and would be extemely vulnerable and would have an immediate effect on both Iran's military capabilities and economy. Iran can only produce about 40% of the refinery products it needs, trading crude oil for tankers of gasoline, jet fuel, kerosene, diesel, and light fractions. Knocking out these would be an incredible blow to Iran and the Israelis well know it.

The Israelis also know what the Iranian response would most likely be --- to stike a US Navy capital ship, most likely an Aegis cruiser or a Carrier, either in the Persian Gulf or transiting the Straits. The Gulf is shallow and dominated by the Iranian coastline with significant anti-ship capabilities. The Straits are not international waters and Iran could close them partially, or in concert with its ally Oman, close them completely. The Iranian military practices "swarm" attacks. Cigarette boats each with two torpedos, fast PT boats, cruise missiles, F-18's, and even bofors guns along the Straits. An attack would have so many individual attackers that it would be much like the disasters that occurred when the Japanese were using kamakazis against carriers and troop ships late in WWII.

It would not be pretty.

Yeah, right, Gary. A country the size of Rhode Island is going to destroy all the Arab Countries and then the entire world.

Mainly, no other country has the Israeli lobby beating down the doors of our elected politicians with truck loads of money like they do here in the US. Money talks when they're not the ones doing the blood letting ...

SC - these truckloads of money actually firs come from US taxpayers in a form of subsidies for Israel. The pro-Israel lobby uses part of that money to buy off US politicians.

Why is there not any country standing behind Israel?

By the same reason why there was no country which stood behind Israel before the war of 1967, when all the world was sure that Arab countries will make a new genocide of Jews, and by the same reason why no country helped to Jews during Holocaust. Jews have been always alone in the face of the groundless hate of other peoples.

This is a confirmation of the truth of the Bible, where it is written that only G-d is the defender of Jews.

How's that God of them working out? For such a religious community, they sure doubt their god's protection.

@Ivan,

I once had an old drill sergeant who told me that if I was stepping on my right foot and looked around and everyone else was stepping with their left foot, that it was probably me who was out of step. Good advice. And I would admonish Netanyahu to look around and wonder why the US is its only "ally." Israel has been involved in around 19 wars since 1947 --- the only country that has been involved in more is the United States. If there has been any genocide in Palestine, it was conducted by Israelis.

Ivan... no country helped Jews in WW2? WTF are you talking about? Check out with the Yad Vashem Memorial site - all kinds of people in many countries were helping them. Sure it was not enough - but all of them could have been saved if they wanted to emigrate to Madagascar like the Germans offered in 1938. "Most Nazi officials, especially the authorities of the General Government (which administered the rump remains of Poland) including Hans Frank, viewed the forced resettlement of 4,000,000 Jews to Madagascar as being infinitely more desirable than the heretofore piecemeal efforts at deportation into Poland. As of July 10, all such deportations were cancelled, and construction of the Warsaw ghetto was halted, since it appeared to be unnecessary.^{[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan}

I am not Jewish and I can't believe how so many Americans can turn their backs on Israel! I would much rather have Netanyahu run our country than the idiotic likes of the so-called President we have that "slow jams" the news!!!!! What a joke this US administration has become! At least Benny has balls, something our Chicago community (un)organizer truly lacks! And why would someone listen to the former PM? This is just the "Obama" media at it's finest.

The former leader of Shin Bet in Israel also said that Netanyahu is not to be trusted with Iranian foreign policy, calling him messianic. Netanyahu also has been censured in Israel for corruption, so which crook should we listen to?

I am not Jewish and I can't believe how so many Americans can turn their backs on Israel!

Israel is the one threatening to start a war. Not only that, they want America to take part. Any American with half a brain is going to be against that, if for no other reason than we can't afford it. Let them fight their own war. America gains nothing by helping them.

Yeah, I guess it would be better to let Iran build nukes and wake up one morning to the news that Houston. Dallas, Phoenix or San Antonio, etc... have been leveled by some terrorist setting off a small nuke or a dirty bomb. All carried out at the wishes of the extremist running Iran via use of their extremist puppets from Hamas, Hezbollah or some other extremist group, in fulfillment of their Twelfth Iman prophecy .