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Subscribe to RSSThe blind Chinese dissident also asked to live in the United States with his family, after the U.S. appeared to have brokered a deal that allowed him to stay in China. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
UPDATED: 5:36 p.m. ET -- Blind Chinese dissident Chen Guangcheng spoke on the telephone during a Congressional Executive Commission on China hearing, asking for help to leave China with his family.
Chen told the commission he would be in a much worse situation had he not been taken into the U.S. embassy, adding that he wanted to thank Secretary of State Hillary Clinton face to face.
Speaking through a translator, Chen said he is concerned about the safety of his mother and brothers, adding he would want to find out how they were doing.
Frantic efforts to resolve the diplomatic wrangle surrounding Chen continued in Beijing Thursday after he appealed for asylum following what was described as a "change of heart" over an earlier deal.
U.S. officials said they are still trying to help the lawyer, who says he fears for his family's safety, and denied he was pressured to leave the American Embassy to resettle inside China in exchange for guarantees about his future treatment.
Chen said by telephone from hospital, where he was escorted by U.S. officials and was being treated for a broken foot, that he had changed his mind about the resettlement deal after talking with his wife, who spoke of recent threats made against his family.
In a string of interviews, he said he now wants to leave China as soon as possible. “My fervent hope is that it would be possible for me and my family to leave for the U.S. on Hillary Clinton’s plane,” he told the Daily Beast.
A senior State Department official told reporters on Thursday that officials were "trying to get full, frank and candid conversation with him," adding: "We are not there yet. If he is changing his view, we're starting from square one with the Chinese."
"When we feel that we have a clear view of what his final decision is, we will do what we can to help him achieve that," the official said.
A source familiar with the situation said Chen and his wife appeared to have had "a change of heart" about a deal, agreed on Tuesday, to remain in China after receiving guarantees about their safety.
U.S. Ambassador Gary Locke discusses the blind activist Chen Guangcheng's apparent 'change of heart' and how the U.S. is trying to help resolve the issue.
China censors 'Shawshank' as Clinton heads to Beijing amid dissident drama
"We don't know if there was intimidation or pressure from friends who think he made the wrong choice, or whether he got in the room with his wife and she was looking at a different situation," the source added.
The New York Times reported that the saga leaves Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's scheduled summit meeting in Beijing "under a cloud of confusion."
It reported that the Obama administration was "exposed to criticism from Republicans and human rights groups that it had rushed to resolve a delicate human rights case so that it would not overshadow other matters on the bilateral agenda," such as the Iranian and North Korean nuclear programs and China's currency and trade policies.
'I feel unsafe'
Chen, a self-taught legal activist, explained his change of mind: "I feel very unsafe. My rights and safety cannot be assured here," he said. His family, who were with him at the hospital, backed his decision to try to reach the United States, he added.
Blind activist: Chinese officials threatened my wife
The activist, citing descriptions from his wife, Yuan Weijing, said his family had been surrounded by Chinese officials who menaced them and filled the family home. Chen, from a village in rural Shandong province, has two children.
"When I was inside the American Embassy, I didn't have my family, and so I didn't understand some things. After I was able to meet them, my ideas changed."
Us Embassy Beijing Press Office / AFP - Getty Images
In handout photograph from the US Embassy Beijing Press office taken on Wednesday, Chen Guangcheng together with US ambassador to China Gary Locke as Chen's wife Yuan Weijing and children meet him in Beijing.
Gary Locke, the U.S. ambassador, told reporters he could say unequivocally that Chen was never pressured to leave the embassy.
Locke said Chen had two conversations with his wife before agreeing to the original deal on Tuesday. "We waited several minutes and suddenly he jumped up very eager and said 'let's go' in front of many witnesses," the ambassador said.
Clinton urged China to protect human rights but made no specific mention of Chen, whom she had spoken to on Wednesday after he left the embassy.
Blind dissident's case a 'hot potato' for US-China relations
"Of course, as part of our dialogue, the United States raises the importance of human rights and fundamental freedoms," Clinton said. "We believe all governments have to answer our citizens' aspirations for dignity and the rule of law and that no nation can or should deny those rights."
US-China relationship under pressure
Despite Chen's change of heart about staying in China, it was unclear if he would be able to travel to the United States. Having left the Embassy and the protection of U.S. authorities, his fate is now in the hands of the Chinese government.
U.S. officials appeared no longer to be with him on Thursday, with the dissident saying he had still not had an opportunity to explain his change of heart to the U.S. side.
"I hope the U.S. will help me leave immediately. I want to go there for medical treatment," Chen said from the hospital, where a pack of camera crews and reporters was waiting outside, kept away from the entrance by a few police.
Chen, 40, is a legal activist who campaigned against forced abortions under China's "one-child" policy. On April 22, he escaped 19 months of house arrest, during which he and his family faced beatings and threats.
Us Embassy Beijing Press Office / Reuters
An handout photo from US Embassy Beijing Press office shows blind activist Chen Guangcheng making a phone call as he is accompanied by U.S. Ambassador to China Gary Locke, Wednesday.
Chen's dramatic escape from house arrest and his flight last week to the U.S. Embassy have made him a symbol of resistance to China's shackles on dissent, and the deal struck by Beijing and Washington would have made him an international test case of how tight or lose those restrictions remain.
Now, however, his change of mind throws not only his own future into doubt but also raises questions about the wider U.S.-China relationship.
Reuters, The Associated Press, NBC's Kristin Wilson and msnbc.com's Alastair Jamieson contributed to this report.
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Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
To: GOP
Shut up, this is NOT your call. It's Hillary and Obama's.
To: China
Let us take the guy off your hands. He's going to be a PR nightmare as long as you have him.
Hillary and Obama should stop funding UNFPA if they really care.
It isn't Hilary and Obama's call, it's America's call. Human rights and American values should take precedence here - not what's good for the almighty dollar. Love how politicians will yak about freedom, etc., and then giggle nervously when an actual oppressed human being walks into their office. Their reaction? Photo ops, nice words, and "'bye".
This is going to be tricky. I am glad I'm not Ms. Clinton.
Part of me says we shouldn't be getting involved since this is an internal problem. If we're not going to get involved in the Assad regime's mass mowing-down of the people who don't agree with Assad's way of doing things, then we really shouldn't be getting involved in this either.
That being said, however, my Dad, a Vietnam and Korean war vet, always told me 'Pick battles big enough to matter but small enough to win.'
Getting involved in Syria is a gamble and there's no guarantee that we will win anything, and it's a sure thing we will lose something; military equipment, personnel, etc.
Getting involved in this, well, if we do take Guangchen back with us, China's going to make a lot of noises about it but in the end it will just be so much noisemaking. Their economy is so intimately tied up in ours that there's not really a way for them to economically extricate themselves from us without seriously hurting themselves in the process.
Any contributions Guangchen could make to our country could be debated, but the strength of character that is required to chose an issue, take a stand, and hang onto it even in the face of government opposition, jail time and death threats speaks to a strength of will and a firm character that we here in the US have built our country on over the last several hundred years. While you may not agree with what he stands for, while you may not like the way he's chosen to express the stand he's taken, while you may even not like the color of his skin, you have to respect his firm dedication to what he believes and his willingness to face the obstacles he has in order to hang onto his convictions.
Hillary and Obama would sacrifice a Chinese activist in exchange for the loans to further their socialist agenda for the U.S. in a heartbeat. The only thing they are thinking about is how to spin it as to not alienate their Hollywood cheerleaders.
(CONT.)
All of that being said, however, it's not just him that wants to come over; it's his wife and children. Those children, ultimately, are the ones who pay the price for their father's convictions and beliefs. When/if those death threats materialize in tangible harm to his children is where I draw the line. Yesterday he said he'd be willing to stay in China; today after talking with his wife he's afraid for her and the children and reversed his decision.
My solution; bring wife and children over here to take the innocents out of harm's way. Guangchen isn't going to be able to do much about speaking out against human rights concerns in China from the US; all China has to do is censor their news and he'll fade from the country's collective consciousness. He'll be more effectve if he stays there, but let's take the children out of harm's way. Those children are the future of China and their generation will be among the most instrumental in bringing China into the global community instead of remaining relative isolationists.
That move just might make China recall their note on the US......THEN what are you going to do?
Barry will be in a HEAP of trouble on election day then!
DO IT! I double dog dare ya
If China calls in it's debts, and the US says: "Ummm... suck it, we ain't payin'", what's China gonna do about it? Nothin', that's what.
I need to move to North Korea or China for a month, let them torture me around for a little bit, and then call all the DUMB press in the US to come and rescue me.
What a wonderful retirment. Better than working all my life here, just to get all taken out by the GOP at the end of the day -Tax money going to wars- The US government would make me an instant celebrity with even the opportunity to write an book.....The irony
Why are we always buying into this "Human rights" garbage that the Government dishes us?
Hilary and Bill Clinton: Get off the limousine and take a walk into the SLUMS of any city here in the US. There are MANY people to be rescued, including HOMELESS vets that lost their mind SERVING THIS COUNTRY.
I hope China stops lending us MONEY. Then maybe we all go there and ASK THEM FOR A JOB...
AMERICA, THE stupid
How unfortunate that he allowed himself to leave the embassy. Of course, if the Chinese had their hands - figuratively or literally - on his family coupled with the fact his asking for our help was obviously proving "inconvenient" for Obama and Hillary to have to deal with while trying to make nice with our Chinese friends, it is perhaps understandable given the emotional state he was in that they could have talked him out the door into the waiting hands of what is arguably amongst the most despicable, tyrannical and despotic of regimes left in the world - truly the last great evil empire.
Of course, if your goal is to borrow more money because you are bankrupting the United States with your incompetent leadership and to placate a country that's more enemy than friend, well then, what's a "great" leader, a Nobel Prize winning Peace maker to do? Waffle, pretend you really care, tap dance as fast as you can and dazzle 'em; hoping they don't see that what you really want to do is - well, nothing.
Should be the GOP's call. It was a GOP whom this guy got in contact with. MSNBC failed to mention that tidbit.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!
It really upsets me when EVERY story posted , gets turned into an anti Obama one by many seededs here on the vine. Oh I believe in freedom of speech ,and open political discussion, but my god, not even in the Bush era was it this bad. Most of you sound like little kids, or payed viner's. Discuss the news like any normal person does....normally with sound discussions and point of views you can honestly defend. Stop all the BS.
.
(Moves lips out of sync with dialog) "It is my hope.......that my famiry.....wirr be abre to reave of Hirarry Crintons prane."
You know this poor bastard is going to be beaten mercilessly, then killed when this all blows over. For now though, they are going to act like a big brother would when mom is looking. Pat him on the shoulder and say all is good were just playing.
Something isn't right about this whole damn thing. We need to simply walk away while we can. This is not our problem. There are millions more just like him. And knowing this administration, they'd give this guy the keys to our CIA and military planning and status computer rooms as a "welcome home" gift and as a means for saying we're sorry for making him have to fly coach.
Obama and Hilary better watch their step here. If miss handled this could be the beginning of a major change for the worse in Chinese/America relations.
For those not paying attention China doesn't hold back when it deals with us. They block human rights movements all the time in the UN. They have no shame in claiming the entire South China Sea as their own.
We have to decide that we have principles and character or we don't. We know China is a human rights violator. Something the left SAYS they really care about. As the saying goes, put your money where your mouth is. They say character is something you do when nobody is watching, well the world is watching and we aren't doing anything.
JFK and Reagan both stood up to the Soviets. Obama would help himself with moderate voters by standing up for American values.
Hillary really dropped the ball on this one. This is become a real international mess. It shows we value corporate profits over human rights.
Obama needs to step in and fix Hillary's mistake.
You have got to be kidding, you are STILL ragging on Bush!
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
This guy is an activists in China. A problem for China, not us. Americans are so arrogant as to believe they have a right to tell every other country what to do? This man thinks he has a right to tell the people of America what they should do. He has no right to demand that we do anything. HE know what he was getting into. Let him and the people of China hash it out. Tired of these individuals wanting to be taken care of by the United States. He expects us to give him a lifetime job! Bull hockey.
I don't think China is even relevant.
Cmon Joe, you're kidding right? Are you saying that Obama should threaten or better still stand up to China,like JFK or Reagan did with the Soviets! There is one huge problem with that, this President lacks the sand of JFK and Reagan! He and the US would be a laughing stock to the world! His best bet for securing moderate voters would be to find them jobs like he promised over 3yrs. ago! Not go off half cocked and start a war without Congressional approval like Lyndon Johnson did with Viet Nam to gain approval as a tough guy. Obama gets tough with China,they'll tell him to put up or shut up. The only way to hurt China would be cut Walmart's nuts off by making them pay for health care of all their employee's.
@Domewars
Right, and their call was to throw him to the wolves while conning themselves into believing it was his "choice". As soon as he was reunited with his family at the hospital they should have stuck them all in the car and headed back the the embassy ASAP. Instead they hee'd and haw'd and made a bunch of lame assed excuses so as not to complicate the SS's "goodwill" trip. And by "they" I mean the administration in general as Obama himself has, uncharacteristically, decided to remain silent on the issue. Perhaps he's waiting until after the election when he has more "flexibility".
And oh so sorry if you don't like it but the GOP, and anyone else for that matter, has every right to criticize the administration for leaving this guy hanging (hopefully that won't become a pun).
That alone will get a NO vote from Hillary and Barry...the lovers of women's rights to abortions, regardless if forced by the government.
LOL, Obama couldn't fix Hillary's lunch let alone anything else.
You really need to learn how democratic governments work. The way it works is that Americans decide by majority rule who has the right to run the country and appoint the cabinet that shapes the the policies of the administration. As such, a majority of Americans has outwardly said that they want Obama to have that responsibility, and he appointed Clinton.
So, yes, it is very much their call whether you like it or not.
the same rule, dont do the crime if you cant do the time. sheeesh, we dont need more illegals here, then the whole chinese country would want to come on the next US bound plane!
This is a job for some conservative religious nutsack, not Hilary or Obama. Not that the former could do anything about it anyway. China's got a population problem and their government has a good way of controlling it without having to sell man-hunting permits. So IMO going to the guys rescue by sending Batman in with a skyhook isn't even a justified endeavor.
Does he have a crush on Hillary? I read earlier that he just wanted to Kiss Hillary!
First, he wanted to 'Kiss Hillary,' now he wanted to get into her plane..
What does he want next?? Get in bed?? He is coming onto her??
I have a better idea. Stay where you are. We have enough trouble makers here already.
Granite (#12.2/#19.2), wud you take a cool drink and calm down. All your rants and name-calling is not productive. Raphael and a couple other guys are giving their opinions, no need to label everybody trolls just because you disagree with them. And what is your rationale about this China being so clever why can't they feed their population. Actually they do, 1.3 billion of them. And using your rhetoric in reverse, if the USA is so clever, why are they mired in 2 multi-trillion dollar wars. If they are so clever, why are they in the hock for trillions and foreclosure on every street? If they are so clever, why is there a semi-permanent underclass of Latinos and blacks? If they are so clever, why are there more people incarcerated in the penal system in the US than any other country on earth, including China which has several times the population? If they are so clever, why do you have one race complaining about another profiling and shooting them? And drugs everywhere? Guns? You can't even walk safely in any inner city after 5 p.m. (6 in the summer) whatever color you have. And if the Chinese are so stupid, how come they went from nothing to the #2 economy in 20 years? The biggest auto market in the world? The biggest netizen population in the world? Half the world's steel output? 95% of the world's rare earth? Bests hockey (ice) team in Asia?
Look, China has come a long way in a short time. They are still evolving. I don't know of many do-gooders when China was starving, saturated with opiate from British India, foreign troops running amok, the country falling apart. The communist got it together. They were ruthless, they had to be. There was no magic wand where you could just wave it couple times and out pops Truth, Justice, Lady Gaga and the American way, not necessarily in that order. What they achieved were through collective endeavors, often at the expense of the individual. But they are still evolving. There are more public debates today. Go to any blog on the net and see for yourself, if you read Chinese. There are considerations underway to loosen up the 1-child policy in urban areas, but delayed for the moment. In the rural areas, many people by-pass that (note Chen's 2 kids). For minorities, there are no limits. Compared with other countries in the region, see what a mess the Philippines is in with their uncontrolled birth rates, no thanks to the Catholic church (that's a separate subject), and much higher female feticide/infanticide rates in India, a so-called democracy. Hey, It's a process.
Take a deep breath, sit down in your bathroom with a Hustler. You'll feel much better afterwards.
#1.33 was posted under wrong leading thread. Try reading #19.4
Pigotry
First, he wanted to 'Kiss Hillary,' now he wanted to get into her plane..
What does he want next?? Get in bed?? He is coming onto her??
hahaha....he is blind, if he could see her, he wouldn't kiss her! She has aged terribly in the last few years
Oh ok, so now every "human rights activist" in China gets to come to America? jeez there are too many here already. Learn how to drive first!
They're probably better drivers than you. Why don't you learn to talk out of somewhere that's not your posterior.
I may be going out on a limb here, but exhorting a blind man to learn how to drive strikes me as a tad bizarre.
Well they are working on cars now that will allow the handicapped to drive. With advances in technology like GPS, front, rear and side sensors to let you know if you're too close to another car, self paralell parking, it's not inconceivable that soon we'll have self-driving cars for the handicapped.
And all of that will depend on the degree of blindness. Just because you're 'legally blind' doesn't mean you can't see period.
He gets to fly here to the USA with his whole family. why not bring his other relatives too
It really upsets me when EVERY story posted , gets turned into an anti Obama one by many seededs here on the vine. Oh I believe in freedom of speech ,and open political discussion, but my god, not even in the Bush era was it this bad. Most of you sound like little kids, or payed viner's. Discuss the news like any normal person does....normally with sound discussions and point of views you can honestly defend. Stop all the BS.
Yes this is a double post, because it become up setting when the close one comment and they then close the whole tread of comments.
It is amazing that we would give a country with such a dismal human rights record the status of a most privileged trading partner... shameless US politicians simply doing what they are told to do by international capital holders.
Please boycott Chinese products!!!!
Why is this guy a US problem. Why is it that every dissident and person that feels oppressed anywhere in the world wants to come to the US. I can tell you, it is because they know our government will hand them free money for them to live on at the American taxpayer's expense. We need to stop being the refuge for every dissident and malcontent everywhere in the world, we simply can not afford it. He willingly left the US embassy so it is now no longer up to the US what happens to him. Also, why should we damage our relations with the Chinese over this guy. If you read the whole story on this guy you will learn that he actually did break Chinese law by destroying property and that is what led to his arrest. You may not agree with the laws in China, but even an American visiting China knows they need to follow and respect them while they are there or face the consequences. His goals to change the laws may be noble, but is breaking the law really an acceptable way to go about changing the ones you do not agree with?!?! I do not agree with China's one child policy, but the people there know the law and the consequences of not complying with it. If they do not like the laws and the government that is dictating them, then the Chinese people need to do something to change their leadership and pass new laws. They have done it in the past and can certainly do it again. He and his family may be treated badly by Chinese officials, but so are a lot of other Chinese. Are we going to offer a free trip to America and support on the taxpayers dime to all of them?!?! If he wants to eave China and the Chinese will let him go, then let him go to some other country like France or England or Germany, or Spain, or ..., if any of them will have him. We can no longer afford to be the world's refuge for every dissident who wants to leave their on country.
Good Luck with that. He should have figured out by now he has already been sold out in one of this administration's famous "Let's Make A Deal". moments because there is no ability or courage to do anything else. But hey, 90,000 muslims coming a year is ok, and soon to be 150,000. For those who have never studied the way of infiltrating to conquer this will come as one big shock one day.
"Please boycott Chinese products."
What a joke.
The computer you are being ignorant on has over 100 Chinese parts. Your cell phone is mostly Chinese parts. That flash LCD TV hanging on your wall is made in China.
You might as well put up a tent and start sending smoke signals.
Mr. Spade -
Mr. Chen will not be driving in the U.S., nor any other country.
He's blind, you see.
Rosa Parks broke laws when she refused to give up her bus seat to a white. And was arrested for it. And it did change the laws we as a nation decided we didn't agree with.
Had the Civil Rights movement failed, we would look at Ms. Parks the same way the Chinese government is looking at this guy. Remember that history is written from the viewpoint of the winners; if Germany and the Axis powers had won WWII, would we have the Holocaust in our children's history books?
Of course he'll end up in America with a free ride here and full benefits provided
To all of you saying that this is not our problem, why are we the world's refuge for dissidents, all he wants is a free ride to America where he will be given govt handouts, my God. Have you become so cynical and biased that you don't remember what America is about? More than that, what she stands for outside of the country? We are a beacon of hope, a shining light in a darker world of despair. People want to come here because here there is hope where there is none in their home countries. We get so wrapped up in political BS, red state/blue state, progressive/conservative that we forget who we really are. We are the most powerful, most benevolent, most desired country in the world. That of course is going to foment anger among those that strive to keep their citizenryheld down, but only builds hope in those that are oppressed. I think it's time for us to take a step back and remember just what America really stands for. Believe me, if you ask anyone who isn't American, they won't say it's about Republicans or Democrats, or Too Big to Fail or Socialist/Commie/Gay Rights/Anti-abortion Agenda. It's about hope and freedom. Hope that you can make your own way and freedom to do it how you want. If we lose sight of that then what the hell is the point?
to comment 2.2,he wants come here on hillary plane.well ill tell you what,if he wasnt blind.one glance at hillary, hed wish he was.lmao
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
Rosa Parks broke the law by not giving up her bus seat to a white. Why did we want her here after that? Is everyone who ever broke a law therefore worthless? In my municipality a law was passed in the late 1800s that banned cursing in public places within city limits. I can tell you that practically everyone over the age of three has broken that law at some point
One, you don't know that. Two, the true measure of a person is in how they treat someone who can do absolutely nothing for them. Would you not report seeing a missing child from the news unless a reward was offered? Three, what if one of his children is the next Einstein?
But eventually if they keep going with this one-child policy coupled with the gender-selective abortions that is going to CAUSE a war when all these boys grow up and there are no females to mate with. Or when the women of China get fed up with their male heads-of-house telling them to abort a girl baby so they can try again for a boy. And then when she keeps coming up pregnant with girls, disregarding the fact that it means his sperm must be predominantly female and forcing her to be sterilized as 'worthless' because she cannot produce a son.
I don't consider China's gender-selective abortions and one child policy humane. The one child policy might work on paper but only if the people would allow nature to take it course and accept whatever they get, be it boy or girl. But since they believe that boys are better, girls are being killed and leaving a gender imbalance that will create havoc in the gene pool and society when all those males come of age and there are no girls. And since the current solution to that problem involves trafficking, buying and selling girl child sex slaves from Vietnam and other Asian counties to 'marry' these young scions, how is that humane?
I bet you complain about your wife/girlfriend/daughter/female relative/female boss at the office. Does that make you bad person? I wouldn't know since I don't know you personally but I rather get the feeling from reading your posts that I might not like you very much. Besides, he didn't complain about his wife. China let him go, he went home, his wife told him she and the children are getting death threats, he sees this as a good time to try and save them and get them out of China. Don't tell me you wouldn't do the same if our government were threatening to kill your family.
Well... this is embarrassing for Hillery, like showing up to visit a friend and suddenly his wife wants to go home with you.
Wife? The red-headed stepchild chained in the basement.
Spot on cheetah
...
Why do I think he may have just been a victim caught under the wheels fo the US-China relations bus.
So, my fellow Americans, how much do you value your relatively cheap iPads, Macs, Intel PCs, and a great many smartphones. How much do you value all of those consumer goods which are made in, or with a significant amount of parts from China. All of that cheap labor comes with another price, not monetary, but one you have to learn to sleep with or hide from to retain some level of ignorance.
Are you willing to give them all up, see the damage to our consumerist economy in order to make a stand for this one person?
I fear the answer is no, even if it is only proven by a continuation of the status quo.
LOL Cheetah
Spot on Jake...
It is amazing that we would give a country with such a dismal human rights record the status of a most privileged trading partner... shameless US politicians simply doing what they are told to do by international capital holders.
Please boycott Chinese products!!!!
Jake-413451
They didn't want to bring another freedom fighter to our country. If this administration gets another four years there will be a lot of American citizens in the same shape. An executive order already in place to allow Obama to take over everything including our food with his declaration of Martial Law. Obama's secretly set up Narwhal room gathering every bit of information possible on every American. Have you noticed how Holder has gone after every group and important person who has done something to annoy or failed to obey Obama? Next time around it will be all the citizens who do that. Our Congress is busy prosecuting baseball players for allegedly lying to Congress. What a joke. How about prosecuting Holder for lying about Fast and Furious or all the other politicians and syncophants that have sat there with you all knowing they were lying. This is all getting both disgusting and scary dangerous for America.
So much for being a "Christian" country - I guess this guy doesn't have any oil rights or we would have sent a carrier group to protect him like we protected Saddam from Iran (oh wait, I forgot 10 years later he was our enemy instead of our ally) Mayb we should have supplied him with missles to fight the Russians like Osama Bin Laden...oh wait, he turned into an enemy too!
We just can't do good for good's sake I guess
Steve, there is a lot more to it than this. How did the guy get in the US embassy grounds? You darn well know that the Chinese guards would not have let him get through. The only way he could have gotten in, was if he was riding in a US embassy vehicle, which the guards will not stop and search. This is a huge mistake on our part. You do not use the executive and other privileges to bring people on to our embassy grounds. This is unthinkable for any nation to do this. I am sure obama will plead his normal ignorance and say he knew nothing. What a sorry excuse for the apologetic president and another in a line of bad foreign policy miscues of this president.
Interesting on how so many feel inclined to impose our personal doctrines of human rights to other sovereign nations citizens. I wonder where America would be today if all of our societal game changers did the same by leaving our country with their families?
Over the years, Americans have gotten used to the phenomina of "we need this done, right away" without concern for the long term consequences. Getting our own house in order will do more to change others policies.
LOL! I love it!
You know I listen to some of these comments ,and I realize that most of the people here live in a dream, You know long time ago before the Internet and google , most of us did not know where china,Syria,Egypt and now that we do somewhat we think we know about these countries and how they should treat their people , Most the people over seas do not like the way we live and some of our so called freedom, and we Can not apply our democracy and our way of living to their lives, But we still try to. Iraq. Afghanistan,Syria,Egypt,wherever the people have different culture and different believes that does not agree with ours, but most of them still live happy, now this guy comes here and trust me the only reason we bring here simply because he does not like the Chinese gov. we house him and give him money just like all of these Iraqis and Libyans, and I hate to say this , most of them take advantage of our politicians and system , I remember we gave the people that they were giving us false information about Saddam and his weapons whole bunch of money , and it was all lies , and what so bad it was out Intel. service the ones were giving the money , Go figure .
Steve, we are not a "christian" country. We have no official religion.
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
The entire disagreement and the point to this article is that he wants to come here and we are not sure if we want him to and the Chinese government won't let him leave. Where do you get 'we house him and give him money' when he hasn't even gotten here yet (and most likely won't?)
Have to buy a ticket to be on that plane pal ( doubt if possible)..you don't expect the USA taxpayers to foot the bill..do you?
We are not a Christian country, stop trying to force your beliefs on others. The U.S. has no state religion and it is stated in the First Amendment that there shall be seperation of church and state. Choke on that tron9997999
Apple has over 100,000 workers in China building Ipads. Apple could build them in the US but then they would not have extra billions to play with. China worker $350.00 to 450 per month. Women have set themselves on fire and died in protest to the working conditions.
Are we not as bad as the Chinese Government?
We''re trying to become the modern version of the Roman Empire or the British Empire who also tried to impose their beliefs and way of life on other countries. We all know what happened there. We first need to take care of our own who are in need, of which there are so many. Would you like your neighbor to impose their values and beliefs on you. America is again allowing itself to be used so the GOP can turn around and blame Obama for not doing enough or if we do allow this dissident into our country, pay him and his families medical and living expenses then the GOP will accuse Obama of interfering with other countries. We need to stop allowing our country and the lives of our young men and women to be used for political gains.
I'm already boycotting Chinese products. Money in their pockets = the slaughter of rhinos, elephants, and whale sharks for snake oil remedies and soups. And then there's the product safety factors...the exporting of U.S. jobs...the sorry conditions people work under there...and the list goes on...
Read labels, folks, and buy American, even if it costs you an extra dollar or two. You'll save in other ways.
LNLogan - it would be nice to believe we have freedom of religion in the USA but every president gets asked which church they go to (and believe me it better be a christian one) and every republican will be quoting the bible come the elections in November.
The truth is we are fighting wars in foreign lands so that religious zealots do not gain control of their country at the same time our own religious zealots are making sure they maintain control of our country (it astonishing that no one sees the parallel)
Chum... our government is WORSE than Chinese government - at least the Chinese government has in mind the best interest of their own country - by hook or crook. Our government is wholly owned by international capital and various other special interest groups. Remember: "Corporations are People too"? These m-fkers don't give a rip about you and me.
@american-2051576
I wonder where America would be today if all of our societal game changers had been threatened with life imprisonment or death for themselves and their families? In a country where free speech is crushed at every opportunity leaving that county offers the best chance for "societal game changers" to have their voices heard, especially in the global environment of today.
Steve - You absolutely have NO IDEA what you are talking about when you say Religious Zealot's are running America. America was founded on the belief of "Freedom of Religion" and unfortunately people like you blame religion for everything. It was not religion that elected the worthless O'Bama, it was people like you that elected the person that has destroyed the U.S. Economy. My guess is that you think you represent the 99% but I am part of that 99% and you and rest of the deadbeat OWS crowd don't represent anyone except themselves. Religion is under attack by those that fear "anything" that even resembles a Cross.
Back from your banning yesterday? Hopefully you learned something from your 16th timeout. Don't get yourself banned today, it's such a nuisance having to create yet ANOTHER screen name after yet another banning. Pretty soon you're going to run out of 999 numbers.
Our founding fathers founded the nation on Christian principles but they specifically wrote separation of Church and State into the Constitution so ALL would be free to practice whatever they believed. I have a problem with Christians shoving their beliefs on me--once kept a woman from stepping off a curb into a crosswalk because I saw a driver about to run the red light and she screamed that I was going to hell when she saw the pentagram hanging next to my dog tags. Did the fact that I may have saved her life mean less because I'm a pagan?
I don't push informational flyers about the Wiccan Rede into people's hands. Yet I run into Christians from ALL sects on the bus every day pushing 'what if the world were to end tomorrow' flyers in my hands. You are free to believe what you want to believe, I'm happy with my belief system, and I believe that 'there is no one true way' so I'm not going to try and convert you. You don't see the world in the same way I do, so what works for me won't work for you. Let's leave it at that.
JoeB - nice rant, other than saying I have "no idea" you did not forward any information that would refute my statements.
I really don't see how Obama ruined the country (Bush hid the cost of two wars - it was the fact that Obama made those numbers public that makes it seem like the debt skyrocketed under his presidency.)
Obama wanted the Public Option for healthcare but pulled it form the bill when the Republicans screamed they wouldn't vote for it as long as there was a Single Payer option for government healthcare. He tried to compromise but instead of helping the country Republicans would rather burn it to the ground than cooperate with someone with a different idea. I call that a zealot!
Steve-2570999
What?!? You can "hide" the numbers from the public but you can't hide them from the GAO. The debt has always been accurately tallied, the idea that it "Skyrocketed" under Obama for this reason is beyond ludicrous.
Maybe it's time for you to step back and take a close, deep look at your history so you can figure out why that is.
Christianity as a whole is steeped in blood. Savage conquerors who shed no tears and lost no sleep over the countless people who they killed, for no other reason than they believed differently. Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, abortion clinic bombings...this list goes on and on. You can't distance yourself from it: it's the very foundation of your religion.
And the hilarious irony of it all is that the instant they're not dominant, they cry persecution.
I smell a mega-buck reality show. Get ready guys. Someone's going to make a lot of money.
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
Lyle, how does your comment relate to TF's?
Lyle is just spamming the same comment over and over without ever replying. Seven at this time by my count on his profile.
There is no need for him to come to the United States. His need is to leave China. His want is to go to the United States. He should pick one of hundreds of other Countries.
He was hoping to get to come on Bill Clinton's plane.
Sorry! How about Switzerland or Austria instead
Classic Lawyer, violating the number one rule in decision making...
1. Make a timely decision and try to make the correct one...
2. Making a correct decision late is almost worst than making NO DECISION...
IMO - He has placed his family & himself in a NO WIN position...
Hillary Clinton will not sacrifice China/USA relations over this family...
Obama will have to suffer the POLITICAL HEAT and hopefully the information released until now has been the TRUTH...
AC Robertson
What do you think the odds are that what has been reported in the liberal media has been the truth? He says he had no other choice because his family was threatened. In a room with this administrations lackies? What do you think?
Shaking my head-2479300,
If it comes out the US Embassy guys & Hillary are lying...
Obama may have to throw Hillary under the bus...
IMO - I think the Chinese are using this to deflect what is currently occurring in the South China Sea...
It’s not all quiet in the South China Sea anymore! The Philippines’ largest warship was engaged in a tense standoff with Chinese surveillance vessels in the area on Wednesday after the ship attempted to arrest Chinese fishermen...
For good measure, Beijing added that the shoal “is an integral part of the Chinese territory and the waters around it, the traditional fishing area for Chinese fishermen.” Manila similarly insists that the shoal, which is really group of islands and reefs, “is an integral part of Philippine territory.” A Filipino navy official told the Associated Press that more ships are underway.
see http://atlanticsentinel.com/2012/04/chinese-philippine-standoff-in-the-south-china-sea/
The bottom line is the oil/NG that lies beneath the waters...
AC and Shaking my head-2479300: Number 1 Tenet: Truth and Justice DO NOT EXIST in politics or the legal arena. If you are looking for the truth in this situation you are a fool. This man and his family are dead meat.
China may be staging this to draw attention away from the land/sea grab in the South China Sea...
The UN just ruled AGAINST China's resources claims. - The United Nations has approved the Philippines’ territorial claim to Benham Rise, an undersea landmass in the Pacific Ocean potentially rich in mineral and natural gas deposits...
Things are heating up even more - For the latest news see - http://interceder.net/topic/china-philippines-spratly
The Chinese Navy is standing toe to toe with the Philippines Navy and additional units are on stand-by...
Date: Friday Apr. 20, 2012 6:34 AM ET
MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines on Friday accused China of escalating the countries' 10-day standoff in the disputed South China Sea by sending a third patrol vessel to a shoal where both sides claim sovereignty... Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20120420/south-china-sea-standoff-120420/#ixzz1toHjyV00
It seems funny that when I lived in South Florida. I was constantly told how the US destroyed Cuba.I was told how much many of them hated the country that took them in. Yet a man whom is a political dissident and Chinese is told to go to another country.
18+hours ago...
The Philippines said Wednesday it has asked the United States to supply its armed forces with patrol boats and aircraft as well as radar systems amid an escalating territorial dispute with China.
reference - http://ph.news.yahoo.com/philippines-asks-us-radar-patrol-boats-aircraft-195616548.html
21+hours ago...
Taiwan's defence ministry said Wednesday that it has formed a special airborne unit capable of scrambling to the contested Spratly islands in just hours, as tensions in the South China Sea mounted.
reference - http://ph.news.yahoo.com/taiwan-sets-airborne-unit-spratlys-161131743.html
3+days ago...
China said Sunday it had rejected a proposal by the Philippines for international mediation to resolve their maritime dispute in the South China Sea.
reference - http://ph.news.yahoo.com/china-rejects-philippine-request-mediation-sea-row-173549920.html
6+days ago...
ULUGAN BAY, Philippines (Reuters) - American and Philippine troops waded ashore on Wednesday in a mock assault to retake a small island near disputed areas in the South China Sea, an exercise expected to raise tension with rival claimant China...
reference - http://ph.news.yahoo.com/corrected-philippine-u-stage-war-games-near-disputed-044707909.html
Compare this time line to the developments with Chen... COINCIDENCE???
True. But, this guy is intelligent, educated and brave. He's just the kind of immigrant we should be welcoming to this country.
Stop talking bull about human rights. This guy is an out right law breaker. So why do we want him here. What in it for us beside nothing. He has nothing to offer. We put people in jail all of the time for riots who think it is a human rights issues. I'm tired of reading about this guy. We have no business what so ever to interfere in China business. China is one of the few countries in the world that is trying to reduce the population with out going to war. How much more humane can you get. Then this guy complains about his wife. Right! Give me a break.
Can't we just throw all of them under the bus?
Obama gives $50 million a year (of your taxpayer money) to UNFPA, which supports, plans and implements China's one-child policy.
And the problem is.............???? (other than another misguided handout to make us "all as one")
IF it's true that the Obama administration began funding UNFPA for that reason, then it's the ONLY good thing that he's done in his 3 1/2 years in office. They need a 'one child per $25,000 in income' rule here in the U.S.
The one child policy only applied to the Han population. Ethnic farmers were always allowed to have more children and families that are from one-child parents can have two. Plus the rich have always had their ways to avoid the law...
Now with the aging demographics and falling work forces, there are serious movements to modify the policy. Currently the Chinese are @ 1.5, while the USA is almost @ 2, birth rate... see http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-04-19/the-end-of-chinas-one-child-policy#p1
Do you have a problem with forced abortion? That's what UNFPA does in China.
AC that's why the Muslims will eventually take over the world they are much higher than any other countries in the world exceeding the catholics in the last study done
jlang-342776,
You are probably correct...
The World's most effective method of population control has been, to raise the standard of living...
Many Muslim societies have not been given the opportunity/will to rise above the middle ages. Unfortunately when they migrate into another society, they usually adhere to their old ways and do not adopt skills & laws that will enable them to improve their economic situation. Southern Thailand is a prime example...
Without 1 child policy, you'd see China double its population now, and we may see Chinese people flood to other countries, when their own can no longer support them.
Over population is a much bigger problem in the world now. Once every city in US is like NYC, then you may think twice about population and damaging multiple birth cases, like octuplets or the like.
Mike,
Please tell me where you got that little gem of information.
Really? Please cite your source for that information so that we can all review it.
Cellisis....in regards to your comment about damaging multiple birth cases...I fear you are very ignorant on the subject.I personally have triplets that happened spontaneously with no infertility treatments and I contribute more than MANY citizens that I know with only one on no children. Also, people that CAN afford infertility and end up having multiple because of that have to be able to afford a big chunk of money to go through those treatments and AGAIN probably contribute more to this society than many people with one or no children....So, you obviously have your opinion based on one freak news story and shouldn't speak about things that you are not familiar with. Even more so, if people do seek fertility treatments it usually means they have stronger family values than most...I would say that one ignorant person (maybe like yourself) that has even one baby and perpetuates that ignorance is worse than someone who is willing and able to support multiple children and raise them to be contributing adults.
Clinton said. "We believe all governments have to answer our citizens' aspirations for dignity and the rule of law and that no nation can or should deny those rights."
I agree with "Domewars" on his second point. Not so much his first.
What I do have a problem with is the above quote. Either Hillary misspoke or the writer had wax in his ears. If she said what she wanted to say, then it was a little arrogant. Why would China or any other government have to answer to "our" citizens' aspirations and not "Their" citizens' aspirations. I would inclined to think that the problem is with the writer. I hope it is anyway. I know that MSNBC does a very poor job of writing and proof reading.
i think she may he messed up. meant to say their and not our. i think she messed up. but i do think we should use the cia and get this guy over to the uk w/ his family. why the uk? its the last place anyone is ever gonna look for him.
she messed up on seeing bullets flying vs a band playing.
This guy has no right to expect the United States to take care of him. Nor does he have any right to expect a lifetime of welfare from us. This guy made his decisions and now he and the people of China will decide the next move. WE need to get our noses out of other sovereign countries business. Unless we are acting on behalf of our national security we need to STFU. WE cannot take on every persons problems.
Lets see if she backs up of those words.
Seems to me the democratic leanency for amnesty is catching up to them. Next Chen will want to live in her estate and eat all the food.
Obama is not going to let you come to the USA. You are Asian and blacks hate Asians (and whites) because they out think and preform academically. Example Marion Barry 2 weeks ago. Now if you were one of his illegal relatives from Kenya sucking off the welfare system. Now that's a different story.
Yeah, that's why the GOP loves reminds us of this poor half brother in a Kenyan shanty town that mean old Obama has done nothing for. Stop being a racist Larry, it's a waste of your life. Seriously, you only get one of these, why spend it being angry for no reason at people you don't know anything about? You don't learn about other cultures reading CIA the factbook while listening to the drudge report and eating Chinese takeout. Travel, explore, learn about people who don't look like you. You might find they aren't all that scary and it's ok to move out of moms basement with the lead paint on the walls that keeps HAARP away. Then again, don't those paint chips taste so good?
larry-2037452,
You are barking up the wrong tree...
Every USA Visa requires a US Citizen to be the sponsor to assume any expenses the immigrant causes the US Government...
Who was the sponsor of Obama's relatives that are currently in the USA???
Opps - Sorry those documents are sealed, just like the school records, for Obama...
larry-2037452, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
In China you can have 1 child. In the US you can have 8 each time. OK, all those who want to multiply...how many seats are on Clinton's plane?
Seemed not too much to ask but may be obviously a situation for either nation. Human rights are not all what they want and expect.
Are you telling me with all the China experts and on-the-ground intelligence the State Dept. had at its disposal, the U.S. government had no inkling this might happen? I doubt that. It's obvious that Obama and Hillary just wanted to get the Chen "annoyance" out of their hair, so they could get down to bargaining with China on the economy and support for U.S. interest in the Middle East and N. Korea.
They threw Chen under the bus for these "larger" interests. The U.S. used to stand for freedom and support for human rights around the world. No more. Obama and Hillary are just a couple of cynical politicians.
If you read this story on Al Jazeera you will find out that it wasn't a US screwup. He did not ask for asylum or to go to the US while in the embassy. He left voluntarily on the promise by the Chinese government to stop the harassment of himself and his family. Only after talking with his wife did he learn that the government threats and harassment had increased while he was in the US embassy. He then realized he should have taken asylum, but since he's now in the hands of Chinese authorities again, it's too late.
So what should they have done?
You tebaggies make a lot of noise about Iran and North Korea. Are you prepared to give up sanctions on Iran for this guy?
Did you even know who Chen was before the right-wing media started telling you Obama sucks for throwing him under the bus?
Something's fishy here. Your neighbours due south want to go norte, and they are told to go home and start doing some subtraction. In China they do some painful subtraction, and they are now told multiplying is good. Fine, they can all buy a 1-way ticket to Tiajuana.
Methinks this self-trained "lawyer" is not too bright and can't make up his mind unless his wife tells him what to do.
Since the pictures show he has 2 children, he and his wife obviously feel that the very stringent rules China implemented years ago to save the Chinese people from horrendous effects of uncontrolled overpopulation, such as mass starvation - the whole world could not feed China if every family bred to their heart's content - should not apply to them and belie the spin that he is a human rights activist instead of a man and a couple motivated by their personal desires to breed indiscriminately.
@emm305
I suppose you think the same draconian measures should be put in place here and everywhere else in the world then? You do understand that he was fighting measures such as forced sterilization and abortions that were being caused by that program right?
emm305, You sound like an unrepentant and impotent little Chinese troll. Clearly, since Chen Guangcheng arrived at the embassy the Chinese regime has made heavy-handed threats to the wife and that is now a game changer, not that he wholly relies on his wife for advice (your insinuation showing we should add misogynist to your intellectual portfolio). And if you and the rest of the Chinese are so smart and clever, why have they not advanced to a state where they can successfully feed their own people? Yeah they can make anything cheap and out of plastic, but simply apply that talent to agricultural science and they fall far short of a competent ability to feed their own. Further the "one child" policy coupled with the abortion of female fetuses has now led to a state of not having enough Chinese women available for marriage (so Chinese men look outside China for wives). It's the same old story with communism -- looks good on paper but ultimately is incompetent and ruinous in practice. Looking forward to when your F1 visa expires.
It's hilarious to see the right wing suddenly up in arms about the state getting involved in reproduction.
You are the same people who want to put Big Government in between a woman and her doctor. You are the same people who are trying to ban contraception. You are the same people who are leading the charge to prosecute women for miscarriages. Not abortion - unintended MISCARRIAGES.
You guys should call up the Chinese govt and compare notes on how to expand government to interfere in people's lives.
The only civilized and decent thing for the United States to do is to give Cheng Guangcheng and his family asylum, and China and their predictable bombastic reaction be damned. Clearly, the right thing to do is to side with human rights, and what this activist stands for in the matter of exposing forced abortions, and not what such a diplomatic decision will mean to the value and importation of cheap foreign-made Walmart merchandise, etc. With the Chinese regime, we are really dealing with a barbarian mentality which thinks that brute force and the infantile censoring a decade old American film will control the hearts and minds of hordes of their citizens who are seeking an improved and more rational way of life. The Chinese only understand one thing and that is a resolute force of immovable character. Mrs. Clinton please stand your ground and show what the United States stands for in a world otherwise dominated by mercenary financial interests.
This is going to be tricky. I am glad I'm not Ms. Clinton.
Part of me says we shouldn't be getting involved since this is an internal problem. If we're not going to get involved in the Assad regime's mass mowing-down of the people who don't agree with Assad's way of doing things, then we really shouldn't be getting involved in this either.
That being said, however, my Dad, a Vietnam and Korean war vet, always told me 'Pick battles big enough to matter but small enough to win.'
Getting involved in Syria is a gamble and there's no guarantee that we will win anything, and it's a sure thing we will lose something; military equipment, personnel, etc.
Getting involved in this, well, if we do take Guangchen back with us, China's going to make a lot of noises about it but in the end it will just be so much noisemaking. Their economy is so intimately tied up in ours that there's not really a way for them to economically extricate themselves from us without seriously hurting themselves in the process.
Any contributions Guangchen could make to our country could be debated, but the strength of character that is required to chose an issue, take a stand, and hang onto it even in the face of government opposition, jail time and death threats speaks to a strength of will and a firm character that we here in the US have built our country on over the last several hundred years. While you may not agree with what he stands for, while you may not like the way he's chosen to express the stand he's taken, while you may even not like the color of his skin, you have to respect his firm dedication to what he believes and his willingness to face the obstacles he has in order to hang onto his convictions.
Granite-1297101: Dream on. Hillary Clinton is part of a multi-level political system. She will do what she is told. Makes no difference if you are Repub or Dem......the Rule of Law they are always touting as an excuse for whatever they do is defunct in any kind of 'right thing to do'. They are ONLY interested in the system. People are pawns no matter where they are from or what system they are in. Her purpose is to make nice for the world just as the Chinese are doing. This man and his family are already gone unless someone can figure out how to take them out of the limelight and move them secretly. More than likely that is a non-scenario.
oh plez, why should we get involved with this one nutcase and his desire to come to america. aint our problem. leave him in china (ps. if she could get them to quit killing and eating dogs that would be good).
That's exactly right. China has, and always will, act in accordance with its own self-interests. If making a fuss is in its self-interest, it is going to find a convenient reason. If it is in its best interests to cooperate with the rest of the world, it will, regardless of whether this man is granted asylum.
It's a non-issue. People have to stop jumping on each new political soap-box. Dude wants to live here, fine with me. China? You get cool with it too, and ship him off. Trust me, it's not any sort of a political win - and you won't lose face with anybody you SHOULD care about. @!$%#, I'll board him for a while, if people quit freaking about things that don't matter. It's a distraction.
What is to stop the admin from giving everyone from every country asylum if they claim they are threatened? As dems love to say "This is a very slippery slope"
Maria, can we have a little chat?
Hillary must be pissed this anti-abortion activist is screwing up her trip to China. If he comes to the U.S., it better be on a plane other than the one 'ole pantsuits is on, or he'll end up "sleeping" with Vince Foster.
Geez,The pant suits references are just old and tired.What do you do to make any better?
LOL
First 1 of her posts on the thread & it's just to attack another poster whom she doesn't agree with-nothing to do with the story. SOP! LOL
♪♫Good morning Ms Hypocrite.♪♫
We are in appeasement mode again.
I feel very sorry for Chen and his family because they are in a very dangerous position and more than likely, the Chinese government will cause more problems for them. So I wish for safety for Chen and all of his family members.
Those children, ultimately, are the ones who pay the price for their father's convictions and beliefs. When/if those death threats materialize in tangible harm to his children is where I draw the line. Yesterday he said he'd be willing to stay in China; today after talking with his wife he's afraid for her and the children and reversed his decision.
My solution; bring wife and children over here to take the innocents out of harm's way. Guangchen isn't going to be able to do much about speaking out against human rights concerns in China from the US; all China has to do is censor their news and he'll fade from the country's collective consciousness. He'll be more effectve if he stays there, but let's take the children out of harm's way. Those children are the future of China and their generation will be among the most instrumental in bringing China into the global community instead of remaining relative isolationists.
@emm305
I suppose you think the same draconian measures should be put in place here and everywhere else in the world then? You do understand that he was fighting measures such as forced sterilization and abortions that were being caused by that program right?
So, you would have every Chinese person be allowed to have an extra child if they made a mistake.... That would then mean that there would be no law. China has a huge problem with poverty. So, you are saying that more kids will be born in poverty that you will never even understand as you complain about draconian measures. I guess you need these kids to grow up into the workers that make your Apple tablets for $1 a year???
I don't support abortion, but any reasonable person in China would use contraception to avoid having a child, and if they are not intelligent enough to do so, then yes, sterilization could be a possibility.
In the U.S., we do not have the same population problem.
I do think though, if you want to be really noble, go outside of the Apple stores and demand that Apple pays the Chinese workers a living wage, so they can live like you.
Show the world that you are willing to pay the bill for 1 billion more Chinese children growing up in poverty if this activist has his way.
@Raphael
It's morally wrong to force sterilization on anyone or to limit their ability to have children. As for your no law comment that's ridiculous. It's a bit of a stretch to say there would be no law if people in China were allowed to have as many children as they wanted.
@Raphael
also the key word there was *forced abortions and sterilization
Yes forced sterlization etc. I would compare this to FORCED VAGINAL PROBES being implemented by pur own goverment and
Women would consider either procedure to be the same..
FUNNY GOVERNMENTS IN ALL NATIONS ARE ALWAYS FORCING OPERATIONS AND SURGERY ON WOMEN AND I THINK WOMEN NEED TO BANN TOGETHER AND STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING
China's one-child policy was originally set up to curb the population growth and sustain their population level, not decrease or increase it. Looks great on paper. The problem is that with their male-superior culture almost all the babies being born are males and almost all the babies being aborted are girls because they believe that only the male can carry on the family name--and when a girl gets married she takes part of her family's possessions to give to her husband as dowry (the male could also be asked to pay a bride price by the family if the woman is higher-status or there s 'competition' for her hand, but this is less than a 'dowry.')
So a man who wants to keep what he worked for can force his wife to abort any girl children they might have. As a result there are now 30 million more Chinese males than females, and with such cultural emphasis placed on a 'pure' Chinese female as a wife, competition for the available women also means an increased danger for these females because a Chinese male can rape her, get her pregnant, and she can be forced to marry her rapist because children out of wedlock brings 'shame' to her family. The male who raped her and got her pregnant now doesn't have to pay a bride-price to her family because she wasn't 'pure' at the time of marriage.
So having boys is win-win situation, having girls is a losing proposition, and if the state will pay for you to abort a girl baby, most Chinese male heads-of-household will take the opportunity. Now, while the population is currently staying steady and the one-child policy is being credited for it (the policy was originally only supposed to apply to one generation but has been extended to at least 2015) the problem now becomes that 30 million males cannot produce offspring with each other and the population in China is going to experience a crash by about 2050 due to this. Some families are now taking steps to avoid having their sons go through this by trafficking in baby girls from other Asian countries like Vietnam--a one time fee buys you a girl child who can perform domestic labor in the household while young and then be married off to the scion of the family once old enough, no bride price, no inconvenient family to be dealt with.
Er, no that's not the reason. Parents decide they want to have a child. The woman gets pregnant. They find out it's a girl. They can decide either to keep it (you're allowed to try again for a boy if the first one is a girl) or the male head of household can instruct the doctor to abort (even if the mother doesn't want it) so they can have only one child who is a boy. If the couple find out they have a girl and try again to have a boy, if the second child is a girl that girl will almost certainly be aborted because there are stiffer tax penalties for two girls (as opposed to two boys, or a firstborn girl and second boy. Only the wealthy can afford to have more than one girl.)
It has little to do with not being 'intelligent enough' to figure out contraception and everything to do with making sure if you only have one child it's a boy. If the woman keeps having girls she can be sterilized at husband's request, although this does raise eyebrows with the doctors since it's a proven fact that whether the child will be male or female is carried through the male's sperm, and it's the guys fault if all his sperm are girl sperm.
No we don't because we don't practice gender-selective state-sponsored abortions. We don't have a skewed male-to-female ratio. We don't offer tax credits to a family with boys and tax penalties to families with girls. A woman in America has the right to decide if she wants to keep her daughter; no male in America would be able to order an abortion doctor to abort his wife's pregnancy just because he doesn't want a girl.
That's really only the case in the smaller cities and certain rural areas. People in China are increasingly realizing that girls are just as important as boys, and making sure they get the same opportunities.
They don't simply find out if the baby is a girl or a boy. Ultrasounds etc for the purposes of sexing a baby are illegal in China for that very reason. Sure, it happens, but not all of the time.
A woman in America has the right to decide if she wants to keep her daughter . . . for now. Take a look at all of the Republican-sponsored bills being put out there that explicitly state that they believe women are too stupid to understand their bodies and their medical decisions, so they should be forced to undergo medically unnecessary procedures such as ultrasounds and forced vaginal probes.
This lawyer should not be granted asylum. When you look at the facts, you can see he is arguing something that is a losing battle. Why should he be allowed to have 2 children or more when the fact is that China is overpopulated? Everyone in the world should be having fewer children because the current energy demands of the world are unsustainable even with the present population in the near future.
We should not mettle with China's internal affairs.
Intelligently written, even if moronic. Let's kill our kids globally. THAT should fix SOMETHING.
Ah yes, Raphael, yet another Chinese troll, probably studying in the USA on an F1 visa. Looking for brownie points from your local student political commissar? And how is that abortion program going for you in the home country? Got enough females to go around? Or are you looking for a mail-order bride like so many upwardly mobile Chinese men? BTW, agricultural families can have two children in China, a conciliatory measure advanced because the Chinese are so incompetent at macro agriculture combined with a shortage of available labor to work in farming (because of mass migration to the cities to work in factories). That you refer to "China's internal affairs" basically reveals who you are and also that you do have not a free mind to think with, rather you have sold your mind, soul, and intellect to the People's Republic.
The population of the world is leveling out on it's own in most developed countries excluding population growth due to immigration the birth rate is low enough to be right around the rate of replenishment necessary for a population. In fact some countries (Japan, Russia) have shrinking populations now with that being one of the main reasons why.
Posted this in the wrong thread earlier. Re-post
Granite (#12.2/#19.2), wud you take a cool drink and calm down. All your rants and name-calling is not productive. Raphael and a couple other guys are giving their opinions, no need to label everybody trolls just because you disagree with them. And what is your rationale about this China being so clever why can’t they feed their population. Actually they do, 1.3 billion of them. And using your rhetoric in reverse, if the USA is so clever, why are they mired in 2 multi-trillion dollar wars. If they are so clever, why are they in the hock for trillions and foreclosure on every street? If they are so clever, why is there a semi-permanent underclass of Latinos and blacks? If they are so clever, why are there more people incarcerated in the penal system in the US than any other country on earth, including China which has several times the population? If they are so clever, why do you have one race complaining about another profiling and shooting them? And drugs everywhere? Guns? You can’t even walk safely in any inner city after 5 p.m. (6 in the summer) whatever color you have. And if the Chinese are so stupid, how come they went from nothing to the #2 economy in 20 years? The biggest auto market in the world? The biggest netizen population in the world? Half the world’s steel output? 95% of the world’s rare earth? Bests hockey (ice) team in Asia?
Look, China has come a long way in a short time. They are still evolving. I don’t know of many do-gooders when China was starving, saturated with opiate from British India, foreign troops running amok, the country falling apart. The communist got it together. They were ruthless, they had to be. There was no magic wand where you could just wave it couple times and out pops Truth, Justice, Lady Gaga and the American way, not necessarily in that order. What they achieved were through collective endeavors, often at the expense of the individual. But they are still evolving. There are more public debates today. Go to any blog on the net and see for yourself, if you read Chinese. There are considerations underway to loosen up the 1-child policy in urban areas, but delayed for the moment. In the rural areas, many people by-pass that (note Chen’s 2 kids). For minorities, there are no limits. Compared with other countries in the region, see what a mess the Philippines is in with their uncontrolled birth rates, no thanks to the Catholic church (that’s a separate subject), and much higher female feticide/infanticide rates in India, a so-called democracy. Hey, It’s a process.
Take a deep breath, sit down in your bathroom with a Hustler. You’ll feel much better afterwards.
If they take him here he will be another money sucker at the tax payers expense
Leave the chink there!!!!
But, think of the votes this will attract.
It always strikes me odd that the people who defend our "tax-payer dollars" to the death, are the ones most likely to get racist. Makes me wonder how much they've payed in to the system during their life.
And, btw, its "bring him here" - Not " TAKE him here".
The word "chink" wasn't necessary. And not from a "pc" perspective but from a decent human being perspective. Using racial remarks doesn't do much for the opinions you wish to share.
Sounds like another Obama Snafu...
China is our credit card...
I'm sure Guangcheng is conflicted with everything that's going on, but he seems to be jerking us around and making the U.S. look bad in the process.
It would be great if the Communist Chinese would allow him and his family to come here if they so desire. I can't imagine what it's like to not be able to travel at your own will. Something Americans and others should be thankful for. He and his family are hostages in their own country.
Mrs. Clinton should stay back in China because more Chinese people need spaces in the air plane. True activist should stay and fight.
If you don't believe in China's policies, get rid of the computers produced in China. Donate all of your money to poor people in China who are being born every day in a population of 1.2 billion.... Imagine what would happen if all these people started living a middle class life--w/pollution, etc. .... The Chinese population is just too large for an American system.
OK, THAT made sense. Because we WERE talking about moving the entire Chinese population HERE! @!$%#, why not? Teach THOSE crafty fellows to come home with service-men! Yeah, that's it! We'll import the COUNTRY instead of one family with free-will.
I'm beginning to think that America is too large for an American system. We are divided politically, economically and socially and a lot of this division is increasingly happening along geographic lines.
Or so says your political commissar. Raphael, you really are a mindless and unrepentant tool of the Peoples Republic. How could you possibly know anything about the American system with such intellectual baggage weighing you down?
B7073C It started in a fury when the GOP leadership in Congress said publicly that their job now is unseating Obama 4 years later regardless what happened to the American System hit by the biggest financial scandal in history. The important matter was taking back the Presidency.
The only problem with breaking up America is that most of the southern states basically survive on welfare from the Federal government and more prosperous northern states.
It's unfortunate when one things of what we could accomplish without that baggage, but having a poor, uneducated, belligerent nation on our southern border would be problematic as well.
poor chen he's gotta put his hope in hillary and obama to save his family. good luck to him!
I'm assuming that Chen did not realize what Hillary did to the last lawyer that was going to give her problems...