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Carlos Barria / Reuters
Men guarding building G of Chaoyang Hospital, where blind rights activist Chen Guangcheng was reported to be staying, eat ice-cream at the entrance of the hospital in Beijing Saturday.
No matter whether China makes a rare concession to allow legal activist Chen Guangcheng to leave the country with his family, other dissidents say they don't expect a broader easing of controls.
Authorities may choose to tighten the screws on prominent critics to prevent them from taking encouragement from Chen's case to challenge the leadership.
On Saturday, Chen, who fled house arrest and took refuge in the U.S. Embassy in Beijing, was believed to be still in the hospital, where he was taken to get medical care joined by his wife and two children.
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton -- in Beijing this past week for annual talks -- left China Saturday, leaving Chen behind despite his reported comments that he wanted to leave the country on her plane. She apparently did not meet him in person.
A symbol in China's civil rights movement, Chen may be able to leave to study in the United States in the coming days or weeks under still-evolving arrangements announced Friday by Washington and Beijing to end a weeklong diplomatic standoff over his case.
If negotiations are successful, Chen Guangcheng's family will come to the U.S. on a student visa where he would study at NYU. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
It was unclear if the Chens submitted passport applications, as the Chinese Foreign Ministry said they could Friday, to enable them to travel. His cell phone constantly rang unanswered.
The blind activist's flight to safety in the embassy has provided a much-needed morale boost for a dissident community that over the last year has been debilitated by the government's massive security crackdown aimed at preventing Arab-style democratic uprisings. Dozens of activists, rights lawyers, intellectuals and others have been detained, questioned and even in some cases, tortured.
Blind activist: What did he do to rile Beijing?
The turn of events for Chen, while welcomed by most activists and dissidents, is seen only as an individual victory and not likely to pave the way for improvements in China's attitude toward its critics.
"I think that after the Chen Guangcheng incident, the situation for us will just become worse and worse, because in today's society government power has no limits," said Liu Yi, an artist and Chen supporter who was assaulted Thursday by men he thinks were plainclothes police while he attempted to visit Chen in hospital.
Carlos Barria / Reuters
A woman argues with a police officer outside Chaoyang Hospital Saturday.
| Blind China activist offered US fellowship |
Liu Feiyue, a veteran activist who runs a rights monitoring network in the central province of Hubei, noted the importance of U.S. involvement in Chen's case. "This is only an individual case. Because it turned into a China-U.S. incident, the U.S. put a lot of pressure on China, which is why the authorities made a concession to allow Chen Guangcheng to study overseas," he said.
"Not all dissident cases can become international issues," Liu Feiyue said.
Chen, a self-taught legal activist, is best known for exposing forced abortions and sterilizations in his community in a scandal that prompted the central government to punish some local officials. His activism earned him the wrath of local authorities who punished him with nearly seven years of prison and house arrest.
Bill Richardson, former New Mexico governor and former United Nations ambassador, talks with Rachel Maddow about the diplomatic challenge the Obama administration faces with dissident Chen Guangcheng, and why Mitt Romney should cease politicizing the situation.
If Chen leaves, the officials who mistreated him and his family will likely not be held accountable — something Chen asked for in a video statement he made while in hiding in Beijing before entering the U.S. Embassy.
"Chen's story is not a triumph for China's human rights, unfortunately," said Wang Songlian, a Hong Kong-based researcher with the Chinese Human Rights Defenders. "Although Chen and his immediate family might gain freedom, his extended family is likely to be retaliated against. ... None of those whose violence Chen exposed, or those who beat and detained Chen and his family, have been punished."
| Blind dissident’s case a ‘hot potato’ for US-China |
There are concerns China would exact retribution on Chen's supporters who aided his escape, as well as friends who later tried to get the message out about his fears for his safety or publicly urged him to flee to the United States. Two supporters who helped him escape were detained, then released, but placed under gag orders and close monitoring.
Others, like Chen's friend Zeng Jinyan, who — at great risk to herself — publicized Chen's worries about leaving the embassy Wednesday, have since been barred from speaking to the media and placed under house arrest. Under similar restrictions is Teng Biao, a rights lawyer who repeatedly called Chen imploring him to flee the country, then published a transcript of their phone conversations online.
"They (the authorities) will certainly settle scores with them later," Teng told Chen, referring to the two supporters who aided Chen's escape.
Activist: I want to leave China 'on Clinton’s plane'
Some activists say local officials who have been watching dissidents in their own jurisdictions might beef up monitoring and restrictions on them to prevent them from attempting copycat escapes into diplomatic compounds.
"One guess is that they will learn a lesson from this experience and be stricter in guarding and monitoring similar key figures and take even harder measures against them," said Mo Zhixu, a liberal-minded author and Chen supporter.
Meanwhile, Clinton faced a fresh test on Saturday as she moved on to Bangladesh where the disappearance of an opposition leader has fueled growing tensions.
Clinton will meet Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and her opposition rival, Begum Khaleda Zia, and will also pay a call on Nobel laureate Muhammad Yunus, whose removal from the pioneering micro-lender Grameen Bank has been criticized by Washington.
A senior State Department official said Clinton's visit would highlight growing cooperation between Washington and Dhaka on everything from counter-terrorism and U.N. peacekeeping to global health and food security.
"Her visit is an opportunity to show Bangladesh's government and 160 million citizens that America is truly Bangladesh's partner," the official said.
But the trip will also likely put fresh focus on the Obama administration's commitment to human rights after the standoff in Beijing over Chen.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
More world news from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Prostitute at center of Secret Service scandal speaks out
- Deal nears on blind China activist as US offers fellowship
- Blind activist: What did he do to rile Beijing?
- Meet Monsieur Caramel Pudding, likely French president
- Water access spurs resentment in West Bank
- Suicide bombers kill 12, wound 110 in Russia
- Apology to journalist fired for WWII surrender scoop
Follow us on Twitter: @msnbc_world
Leave a Comment:
Darn it Chan, you have closed our become an activist to get instant US citizenship for free program. You shouldn't have jumped to that offer the Chinese government gave you for free schooling and living expense.
Had you waited a few more hours, you would see that offer from NYU matching the Chinese's offer, which is obvious worth a lot more. Now you want that offer... but screwing everyone else over.
When will American realize they are getting scammed by these so called 'activists' who are actually being an 'activists' only because they want a free ride? Mainland Chinese like Chen are professional scammers and gullible Americans will jump at pouring $ to them with them saying 'thank you come again'. I dont care if another country is doing it, but my tax dollars shouldnt go to this con-artist! We are increasing tax for the middle class yet we throw $ away like this?
Is it because our government are full of Mitts that $10,000 is pocket money that we should ask our parents to spare?
American and Chinese Diplomats are walking a tightrope, covered with broken glass...unfortunately we just happen to be barefoot, and they are wearing safety lanyards...it would of course still be embarrasing for either to fall
Ah yes, the Chinese F1 visa student internet trolls are up early this morning trying to score extra brownie points with their student political officers. Dude, your time would be better spent watching Sesame Street and improving your English. Sounds like you are just jealous because your limited tenure here is bound by a visa and Chinese student loans whereas Chen finally got an interest free bite at success and recognition. Must be galling sucking-up to the People's Republic and getting nothing but debt and anonymity.
Ah yes, China is sounding more and more like the United States where government has ulimited power, can harrass and torture citizens, etc. etc.
You are owned by the "hidden rich" who use corporations as shields. You have no rights unless they say so. Sounds like we live in china don't it? We are no better off then china, we just don't see it. The simple truth is that humans are just too dumb to have democracy and way too divided to have freedom. so keep fighting over wedge issues, the Mellons, DuPonts and Rockefellers etc. love you lol
This is a real bad strategy all together. Here we are, we owe billions to China, and we are TELLING them how to live their lives?
Our arrogance has no ends. I realize this is just a strategy now in election time just to make sure that some segments of the population -movie stars and Hollywood personalities- that live in a surrealistic world, don't stop the fund raising.
This has many strings attached, and we better get ready for the fallout.
We never learn. I wish I could afford to move to Japan. Even with radiation it seems such a far better place to live. I would get respect when I get old, not like in here, where we dump our loved ones in nursing homes, never to visit or pay any respects again.
-Young girls with rich old men ...
-poor that believe they need to borrow from Pay Day Loan types...
-kids that move back in with parents ...
-Governments that borrow from their Citizens Retirement and health safety nets just to pay the interest on Trillions they owe to Gangster Governments...
Every form of refuge has its price
No fret Matador Granite is just another free pass.
Madator-the-2nd: You are right.
Sooooooooo...........we're going to tell CHINA what to do about their OWN internal affairs now???????
Ya, OK......THIS ought to be good!
Pfffffffffffft.
Are you kidding me? Plz tell me you aren't serious.... It's our OWN STATE DEPARTMENT who is in negotiations with the Chinese authorities, not Chen himself. If it was Chen and not our own diplomats, along with our own secretary of state, you could be rather assured the only responce he'd get would be to be disappared. And besides, without the authorities allowing him to leave; it would be a bit problematic for us to get him out of the country whoever might make a deal....
We could try to land a diplomatic chopper, place him on it; and refuse search (hence risking a further international incident) on grounds the diplomats aboard have diplomatic immunity and are not to be questioned, detained, or otherwise investigated. But it would also be obvious we'd be moving him; and tensions would grow more, rather then less. Then there's that itsy bitsy issue of the fact that our national debt is in large measure financed by Chinese money, you know in all those loans we take from abroad to help our sovergn debt situation.
There's a lot that enters into this, and it isn't as clean cut as argueing with a used car sales man who is just holding off on that better deal. Just ask the Dalai Lama what it took for him, and the Tibetans around him to get out of China for a sense of it all ;)
Matador the 2nd
It appears from you ending your post with a rant against Romney, that you are a Obama supporter. How do you reconcile the liberal allowance of illegal aliens to keep coming in and staying in our country yet you don't like the idea of those seeking political asylum being given the chance to come here. Isn't it the common claim that it is the Republicans who are evil and want to destroy poor people? When It isn't the select group that liberals want us to support the story seems to change drastically. Hmmmmmm.
Or is it just that a person capable of being a political desident would not fit into the agenda of Government running everything like it does in China? Just curious.
These Chinese dissidents are griping about Chinese government, but they will shut up and think the Chinese government is not all that bad if they understand the true nature of the brutality of American government - which is Pigotry (meaning government by pigs).
mr pigotry. come live here in China, please. The fact that you can speak out and call your democratic govt pigs is something you'd be killed for here. I doubt you have ever lived in an authoritarian government, nor have members of your family disappeared merely for complaining that their house was taken away without repayment. spoiled americans have it so good. enjoy your clean air.
Ummmmmm, errrrrrrrrrrr...........sir.......meaning NO disrespect to you but NOT really caring how you take it: If you despise your government THAT much, then it's up to YOU guys to do something about it. Leave US Americans the hell out of it. There's a BILLION and A HALF of you. You could kick your government's a$$es to the curb if you really wanted to.
I am not pro either parties. I believe both parties are composed of self serving idiots. We need people that are for the people and represent the people. Personally, I find neither parties representing me because they are so extreme these days. You have cable news now that makes conservatives live in a complete different world that democrats live in.
I say it is time our government get a transfusion. Time to flush out both democrats and republicans. If we can only get an election that will only allow non-align candidates, now that would be great.
I'll eat my hat if the Chinese government lets him go. I doubt we'll ever see his face again.
It could have been much worse if he was to take one of his children with him for a tanning session at the neighborhood health spa and the authorities found out about it. or worse make a statement about a minority group and go to prison for a hate crime, so China has a big brother too so what. do you think you have freedoms better think again. that will give you something to do while you are being felt up at the airport.
Wait till he comes to the US and finds out he has to pay taxes and transportation cost, and if he screws up he can be put under house arrest and to add insult to injury he will have to pay rent on his monitoring device. he wont be happy here either. especially after he gets maced while walking by a group of local protesters on a campus, don't worry about that kid with the hoodie that wears his pants down around his thighs he is here to help you cross the street. I hope he learns ghetto slang since he cant see the hand signs being displayed by the courteous youth. if it was the US those guards at the door would be dressed in military style clothingand carrying automatic weapons and there would be another sitting outside his room, they would tell him its for his own safety. they would all be eating pastry instead of ice cream except for the dog they want him hungry. US of A getting better every day. next we will be adding toll booths to the highways so we can justify checkpoints. oh don't forget to smile for the cameras, say thank you to those nice police when they pull you over and tear your car apart and leave you standing along side the interstate after confiscating all your cash because they know you were planing a illegal transaction otherwise you would be using plastic.
When US government officials killed labor activists in 1886 on the streets of Chicago, the entire world got a holiday -International Labor Day (May Day). Another example - government officials caused a riot in Chicago Democratic National Convention 1968. Another example, Rodney King was beaten. Recently, Trayvon Martin was killed.
US is Pigotry - government by Pigs.
That's because you're not an American. Stop trying to fool us into thinking you're not Chinese, your grammar gave you away a long time ago.
Yes, you do. Oh, so badly. Ah, I mean us Americans. Yes, we need people who are for the people and represent the people. But so do you in China. Desperately so.
Wake up and stop blindly defending your government.
@ Anders TM, I suppose your definition of American is, a) must agree with your views b) from the deep south c) likes to spice things up with cousins. If that is so, I dont think I fit your description of being your American.
My definition of being an American is one who holds a US citizenship and passport, and also pay taxes, which I do.
If you dont have to pay tax because you dont have to work, which I also assume you can ask your daddy for $20k as pocket money, I guess you will never understand my opinion. Not that you have to agree with it.
I guess you have all the time in the world to proof read your posts, since you dont have work and all. Have fun with your 56k internet =]
This will blow over. Chen will apply for a visa to the US and be turned down because of his criminal record. I doubt China would cave in to pressure to allow him to leave.
Not true...so-called criminal record is from being a dissident...China says it will not be an issue. China should stop trying to stifle dissidents...they will always be with you, whether you try too stop them nor not...we have a lot of complainers in the US but not one puts them in jail for it. The more you try to squelch it, the ,ore people will protest.
Our dissenters get pepper sprayed, tazed or allowed to protest away from the area in chicken wire secured areas.
Chen made his decisions and Chen will have to cope with the results. This request for welfare from the U.S. is a bunch of crap. America cannot and should not be held responsible for every individual in the world.
So?
after ww2 the Truman Doctrine was put into place to stop communism, then Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex. Then Nixon starts plans to move labor to a cheap labor force in china, then rich owners agree and now everything we buy is made from china. Sould of stuck to the Truman Doctrine.
Everyone should remember the Chen case the next time and every time you go shopping. When you take something off the shelf and it says "Made in China," think: do I really need this? Chances are you do not, and so put it back on the shelf. Doing this, magnified by the millions, sends a powerful message throughout the stream of commerce that we are tired of the human rights abuses in China and the compromises that the American government, plus American and Chinese companies make in the name of the mighty dollar and consumerism. Make buying from China the exception, not the rule. Once China is treated as the immoral pariah it is in terms of human rights abuses and Americans stop thoughtlessly funding their burgeoning economy, and only then, will the Chinese leadership get the message that the world cares.
Keep living that illusion. China, like North Korea and Iran, doesn't give a damn about what we think about how they run their country. And as for that "made in China, put it down" thing, good luck with that. People are going to say one thing "because it makes them feel good and appear to be a compassionate being" and exercise quite the other. Your rose colored glasses need a good cleaning.
I don't do that to send a message. I do it because I want American made products made by my fellow Americans. Screw China !
Granite: you hit the nail on the head! We wouldn't buy from a merchant who had treated us badly, why buy from a nation that treats us badly?
Kent -- or buy from a merchant who beats his wife and kids in the town square! Which is basically the analogy we in the USA have in our international and commercial relations with China.
EVERYTHING on the shelf is made in China.
BUY USA - but it is not all that easy. If a country of region in a country is anointed a "free trade zone" they the products manufactured there can be labled "Made In the USA." Don't think that there are any regions in China yet that have this status, but I am sure they will be able to "buy" the right soon.
Then, why should you allow China to join the WTO at the first begining? Silly.
Perhaps the same reason US tax dollars could find their way into the hands of the Soviet Union, when we were in the midst of the cold war; if some accounts on this were correct.... Perhaps the same reason we tended to support "the devil you know" when it came to third world despots and dictators; which comes with it's host of rationales "we don't know the alternative wouldn't be worse and how can we support no one when we have interests in the region", and counter arguments "but Sadam was gasing the Kurds long before Gulf War 1 ever took place, or he invaded Kuwait"....
Wow,those guards look better fed than most in fat america. I wonder i'f the dissident is being fed any ice cream. I wish i could take a ride on clinton's jet, without either of the clinton's on i't of course..
quick question- u are complaining about people needing to buy american made products right?
what american made product is there?
you are the same dumbasses who shop at walmart
im chinese american, and i find it ironic. dont speak like an activist if u guys turn ur head and buy chinese made items. i can tell u r wearing chinese cloths, using chinese pots, chinese electronics....
i too wish to see us free from chinese made items, until then, get that shovel out of your hand. no need to victimize urself...we just needa stfu n innovate, which btw, we do little of. we are going to enjoy this trade deficit for a while
Granite: Americans would need to stop buying Apple's products such as the iphone then. I don't see it happening. However if an American manufacturer would produce a similiar smartphone here in America, I would choose to purchase it even if meant paying a higher price. I think a lot of Americans would make the same choice.
@Granite - civil rights abuses are everywhere and happen in the US DAILY by local police all over this country. The police in China do not even carry firearms -- because they don't need them, Here in the US Police officers WINK at the constitutional requirement to have reasonable suspicion and probable cause before they stop you - or break down your door - or search you - or arrest you for a crime. They then manufacture evidence and while you are setting in a holding cell - three or four of them will set down - get their stories straight and with the Law they say you violated in front of them - manufacture and craft their report to meet the requirements of the law. This happens hundreds of times a day in a country where you THINK you are free.
Remember - its not the TYPE of government you have - it's the DEGREE of government you have and NO ONE in the world - including China - has more government interfering with our daily lives than the USA!
China sells to the whole world where would you start--they haven't started any wars that I know of--all they do is sell cheep junk that millions of people buy-they are no worse than the middle eastern countries in human rights..
IMO - This was a false flag to cover what is happening in the South China Sea...
Research the current Military stand-off in the South China Sea/Spratly Islands...
Both the Philippines & Tawain are asking for & receiving US Military assistance...
This is to combat the Chinese land/resource grab...
For the latest news see - http://interceder.net/topic/china-philippines-spratly
BTY - The US state department said Mr Chen had been offered a fellowship at an American university, and it would allow his wife and children to accompany him... dtd 4May2012.
Earlier, Beijing said the blind activist could apply to study abroad - paving the way for a resolution to a tense diplomatic stand-off with the US.
reference - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17958429
So - the solution is to put Chinese dissidents on USA welfare at the expense of the USA middle class tax payer. Sounds like a bad deal for those of us that pay taxes. Of course the universities love it - more money in their pocket at whatever tuition they wish to charge the USA tax payer.
If I was Tawainese, I would be at the Embassy getting a visa.
Our greed built a huge Communist Chinese fleet.
Those assault ships in it were built to land somewhere.........
Our country, after multiple wars, will not have the resources to defend them.
AC.... Vietnamese are also angry with China for cutting their underground cables in the South China Sea. The Vietnam minister of defense wants to start up a conscript program again and the many people in Vietnam feel it's inevitable that they will have a war with China someday.
It always the fat people that get photopgraphed eating ice cream. What's up with that?
Find a thin person eating ice cream while you have your camera ready.
Sir, i giggled a little inside.
After Tianamen Square, in 1989, we should have known that this thing could happen. Why do we continue to trade with one communist nation,(China), but ban trade with another, (Cuba)? China is swallowing our jobs, and is lending us money. China is a bigger threat than Cuba. when is enough?
I don't understand why we're even trying to negotiate anything with the Chinese Government. Give the dissidents there a few more months to organize & rise up, and folks will be calling for the US to arm the rebels there, etc.
lynseypug,
The USA using the CIA in the 1950s, set-up a training school for Tibetans in the USA. So they could fight the occupying Chinese in Tibet, the USA funded these people and the Dalai Lama for DECADES...
It didn't work out for the Buddhist Monk's very well in Tibet, now considered a part of China...
Just another FAILED policy spearheaded by the CIA...
Well, there's a basic problem with the above mentioned; if Buddhist monk's are by ideology, pacafists in nature. If push came to shove, I'm not sure when, where, or what the Dalai Lama would do. But he considers himself a man of peace. This doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility of self defence of course... Many people can be peaceful, and yet if someone tried to kill them, wouldn't voluntarily lay down their life. But it doesn't rule it out either....
I'm not sure if every disident there would be opposed to military action, if they felt it was necessary. This said, things aren't nearly as simple over there where simply questioning a policy of one's police state dictators could land them in a Chinese style prison (not the US equivallent for a prison) for a decade or more. Countries like China, NK, and Iran don't care about their citizens, their citizens lives, or what they think. They'd just assume take people out back when no one is looking, shoot them, then disappear the body while denying all knowledge....
in what way is the chinese government a threat O.o?
i know the word communism scares people but really....
#1 do u really believe america is the only growing country?
#2 you think there is a permanent list of developed countries?
"chinese swallowing our jobs" then "china lending us money", yet no one blames the corporations that send jobs oversea cuz american dont like to do think they see "beneath" them...
when lost, follow the money
Ain't over til the fat lady sings! BTW, that's a shot of her brother eating ice cream, just so there's no doubt where she lives. LOL
Nuadormrac,
The Dalai Lama had armed guards in the temple in Lhasa, the capitol of Tibet. Though he ordered them to not fight during the invasion of 1949...
Just like Abortion - the Dalai Lama has stated that abortions are OK if the mothers life is threatened, or the child will be born with medical problems. Buddhism considers life begining during conception...
Defending ones life is permitted...
Genghis Khan was a Buddhist, he had no problem with killing politicians and driving the Muslims back to Iran & Iraq...
What? Did anyone expect this administration or any other to have any balls?
Were so in debt to China, they rule our very soil. Just keep buying your Walmart crap and your boss will be Chinese. yada yada yada. Nothing matters but my petty goods I buy.
Fear.
China is dumb...They should allow any dissident to leave...Then they would not have the problem of detaining the individual, having to beat the individual, feed the individual just enough to keep him/her alive, and reduce the cost of providing medical care, so they can beat him/her again. Then the cost of keeping the individual in jail etc..also they would have fewer problems and the Communist state would be preserved.
CHINA does not like freedom....so words hurt them, and China is not a great society, by your definition....So what good is any country that prevents freedom of speech? Which is what is happening here in America.
stan have u ever been to china O.o?
people r constantly protesting there pretty much once every day, and people r speaking out. but u guys make it sound like nothin gets out. if thats so, this story wont be here now would it.
try going there for a vacation or w.e then see how much freedom they have. this way theres no need for lookin through propganda after propoganda....
need only fear fear itself
Security? That crew looks like the same that the TSA hires in America. I was in tree different airports last year and I saw only ONE person that looked like they could handle themselves or run more than a half a block.
You are the reason that the Chinese economy is booming and allowing their government to get away with this. You want "things" and lots of it, but you can't afford enough of it if it is made by high-paid American workers which you also want. If you don't get your "things" you will cry like the big babies that you are, so all of the "things" that you want need to be cheap. China makes "things" cheap, so you buy all of them from China. The American public and society is the reason that things are the way that they are. Blaming corporate fat cats and wall street and D.C. for giving you exactly what you want is idiotic. On a side note, due to high unemployment here, workers are going back at lower wages than before and now some Chinese firms are shipping manufacturing jobs to the U.S., isn't that funny? Now the Chinese workers can be crying over there about the big bad companies shipping their jobs to the U.S. for cheap labor. But hey, keep on buying that Made in China stuff. We'll see how that works out for us.
You are owned by the "hidden rich" who use corporations as shields. You have no rights unless they say so. Sounds like we live in china don't it? We are no better off then china, we just don't see it. The simple truth is that humans are just too dumb to have democracy and way too divided to have freedom. so keep fighting over wedge issues, the Mellons, DuPonts and Rockefellers etc. love you lol
Something to think about. when dissadents opposed china government, the troops had no problem killing the students. In kent state, in Ohio, when students opposed the gov. the troops had no problem killing their fellow Americans. but funny that when the people in Russia took over red square, the Russian troops refused to kill their own people.
excellent point......wonder what the troops would do today.....
Our troops and police should learn from their counterparts in china, just kidnap anyone they don't see eye-to-eye and beat them up or whatever in secret. US should change its law to match chinese laws so that police, fbi, cia or anyone ingovernment can kidnap and detain anyone for years legally, without informing anyone, and arrests anyone apealling any court conviction or sentence. these changes will make us much more harmonized.
At first glance I thought that photo was of a young girl being beaten by police in the U.S. I guess dissidents are abused in other countries also.
"The US put pressure on China." Obama said he might get angry and stop borrowing money from China.
aw..c'mon ppl..
u got walmart,KFC,Home depot,Mcdonalds, etc over there ...surely they can help work something out.....
they have to keep this restlessless DOWN..otherwise corporate America can't make a profit.....
USA STOP INTERFERING WITH OTHER COUNTRIES PROBLEMS at the expense of real concerns of USA CITIZENS. A working relationship with China about economic issues and regional security are the real issues and we should not use our time and energy on internal issues for China. They have their problems - we have our problems and not all of these are of mutual concern.
Bob, You are the real man, a natural man. Support your neighbor's kids to fight against their parents (your neighbor) is not looking for peace. Or, at least, not a proper way to settle the problem.
we know u want yo rights...go see NBC 's akward al stupid sharptun.....(surpeised,that he isn't fired after travon martin episode)....
or jesse jackson.....or gay groups in good ole U.S. of A...surely some of U want to be (openly gay)....
I just hope, with what's going on over there that it doesn't turn into another Tiananmen Square. That would be horrible.
You are wrong. The people here, I mean the majority, know what to do. We all value the peaceful moment,
china is becoming a police state where plain cloths policemen are everywhere to keep their dissidents silence.
Leave him in China, we have enough chinese here now, what do we want with a Blind one? Our Activists they pepper spray and throw them in Jail, but foreign Activists they praise. The next time there is a peaceful demonstration here just watch how the paid Thugs, excuse me, "Police" handle the situation. No different than China. Except China doesn't use pepper spray.
I live in China. I know China is much more free than Mao's time. China is improving step by step. And I think you are talking about China during the Mao period not TODAY.
Becoming? This is assuming that it wasn't one already :o
And yes, ECONOMICALLY things have improved, but not all freedoms are economic in nature. Some do include the ability to critisize the government, it's leaders, and do the very thing the demonstrators did in Tianamin Square without having the word Egypt censored on all online search results (both modern and ancient); because some croney dictators are afraid that the overthrow of Mubarak might give the citizens "ideas"....
Have you ever been to China Robin Hood? The POLICE do not even wear guns there because they do not have to.......What you are describing is the United States - - where you cant even curse out lould in the privacy of you own bedroom without risking the forced entry of the police under the false reasonable suspicion of violating the misdemeanor law of Disorderly Conduct in ANY state in this country.
It is not the KIND of government that is important to individuals - it is the DEGREE of government. No one in the world has more violent government intervention in their lives than Americans!
Pilot: I agree. You only have to look at kent state. But people forget too easily here. WE have a Dictatorship forming in this country but people don't see it coming.
"china is becoming...." so you are 70 years out of date in your observation ?
Americans deserve every dictator they get because they voted each and everyone in, whether they have gotten their vote money or not. Americans voted for both Bush and Obama. You deserve what you voted for. Those who know about vote buying and threats and did not tell the world about them are criminals. Those who know about these criminals and did not name them one by one are co-conspirators.
Our Marxist stated in his platform the he is a champion of human rights. LIAR and HYPOCRITE. The Obammy progressive liberals, to which Clinton is self proclaimed, is turning a blind eye to the once great nation that provided asylum to any who sought it on the grounds of political oppression. Another example of this communist's desires to "transform" this country into a backward oligarchy.
Marxist? Asylum to anyone who sought it? Oligarchy? Do you have proof for ANY of those allegations? Or are you just another listener of Rash Limpwrist the fat drug addicted nicotine addict alcoholic draft dodging college drop out? At least China has a Meritocracy - which makes it superior to the US where people like you try to DENY authority to people of Merit.
So if the Chinese don't let Chen leave the country then they are evil, however if they do its to "save face". Gee I really don't see an out for China then. They look bad in front of American Media regardless of what they do. They try to make progress its an act, if they don't make progress then they are messed up for not doing so.
Contrary to popular belief the USA is not dumb here. By accepting this dissident, they now have someone they can use as the Chinese "Dai Lai Llama" of China for their future propaganda wars again. THink I am wrong? Just wait till a full fledge NBC interview on the matter and this very issue being made into a way bigger deal than it is. They will not let this issue rest and will constantly call it out to remind the world about it. And Chen will be used as a political tool as part of a cold war tactic against China.
Everytime there is a Chinese negative article put Chen's face on it even if its unrelated. This is perfect for the American media. Just like how we had to see pictures of a guy standing in front of a tank in the Tianneman protest for 20 years on unrelated negative Chinese articles.
Its propaganda because its largely a one-sided story, with interviews of people that you know will offer support and input favoring Chen's case. The fact is China is a country of 1.3 billion people and honestly most of them do not give a crap about Chen. Even the thousands of weibo posters support Chen making up only .001% of the Chinese population.
There are millions of Chinese who think America is a bully and like to constantly attack and tell China what to do. But that is never reported....America has propaganda just like the Chinese. Just like when they invade countries based on false pretense they talk about how they are doing it for freedom and they are really liberating them. It seems there are still a good amount of Iraqis that hate us despite our killings and tortures. I thought "liberating" was a good thing. Why didn't we report that they would actually hate American occupation prior to us launching the war. Did the CIA not know about this? O right American propaganda.....
Seriously, China is what it is, because of more then just this one issue.... No they don't look good, and it isn't this story alone. It's more like 50+ years of history which extends from treatment of the Tibetans, to the issues with Tiawan, and on... It includes disappearing people, the Tianiman Square crackdown (of which we didn't have one of our finer moments for putting most favored nations trade status as the top US concern in all that; hence putting business interests above all else).
If you like China so much, go move there. Meanwile, I know of people who lived in Hong Kong, who THE DAY it came out that China would be moving in, they took their businesses, closed up shop, and applied for citizenship in Canada.... They wanted NO PART of it, based on the rep they had wrt China; and it came from no US media, given they left their homeland to escape before the 11th hour. Just ask the Tiawanese why so many of them don't want to reunite with China, and we can see how much of it is "US propaganda to make the poor, defenseless dictators 'look bad' ".
The first thing that came to mind was, wow, there's fat Chinese people. Next was the realization that it's none of our business what a sovereign nation does inside their own borders. Finally, I thought of the millions of potheads who have sat in our jails and thought, we don't treat our dissidents very well, either. People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
There are more fat Chinese than there are Americans, thin or fat.
China has its own culture and sustem of gov't. Seems to be working just fine for them. The picture that came with this article showing a demonstrator neing carted off by police could have been taken right here in U.S. with the occupy protesters in our own country. There are always people protesting everywhere and always will be suthorities that cart them off when they have crossed a line. Chen crossed the lines set by his gov't--let China take care of its own internal affairs.
Let me know when American court sentence a person to four years in jail and 18 months of house arrest after jail term for "obstruction of traffic".
@Maytheforcebewithyou (1.3) There is absolutely no way one can emphatically state that China is like the United States and the United States is like China if you know the histories of the countries. I would strongly implore you to study both before responding to any blog where this conversation is being discussed.
This cold brutal regime has not changed an iota and the current US government is not exactly standing up and criticizing human rights violations in China. Nor is Canada. Economic matters are more important now. What a shame!