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Angelos Tzortzinis / AFP - Getty Images
A man casts his vote for Greece's general elections at a polling station in Athens on Sunday.
Updated at 6:15 p.m. ET: ATHENS, Greece -- Greeks angered by a protracted financial crisis punished the parties that have dominated politics for decades Sunday, with projected election results showing them hemorrhaging support to anti-bailout groups and no party gaining enough ballots to form a government.
Responding quickly to the protest vote, the heads of the parties in first and second place pledged to seek to either renegotiate the terms of Greece's multibillion dollar international bailout agreement or overturn it.
More than two years of repeated austerity measures in return for bailout loans from other European Union countries and the IMF have pushed Greece into a deep recession that has seen the jobless rate explode and tens of thousands of businesses close. The misery has infuriated voters who on Sunday dealt a massive blow to the decades-old dominance of the country's two main parties, the socialist PASOK and conservative New Democracy.
The two, which have alternated in power since the end of the seven-year dictatorship in 1974, had managed to coexist in an uneasy alliance for the past six months as a governing coalition cobbled together to secure a second bailout deal and the biggest debt writedown in history.
Official projections Sunday showed New Democracy winning 18.9 percent, giving it 108 seats in the 300-member parliament - far short of the 151 needed to form a government. The anti-bailout left-wing Syriza party was projected second with 16.8 percent and 51 seats, and the formerly majority socialist PASOK lagged behind with 13.4 and 41 seats.
Following votes in France and Greece, the euro fell to a three-week low. The votes are a response to austerity measures pushed by Germany. CNBC's John Harwood has more.
The extremist far-right Golden Dawn party, which ran on an anti-immigrant platform and wants landmines along Greece's borders, is projected to win 7 percent of the vote, giving it 22 deputies in Parliament - a massive gain for a party that until a few months ago was on the fringes of Greek politics.
With no outright majority, a coalition government will have to be formed. If successive efforts by the top three parties fail, the country will head into new elections - a prospect that has alarmed Greece's international creditors.
Both New Democracy head Antonis Samaras and PASOK leader and former finance minister Evangelos Venizelos voiced support for a coalition - but with certain caveats.
"The fact that New Democracy is the first party increases its responsibility, as it is now the only pillar of political stability in Greece," Samaras said. "We are ready to take up the responsibilty to form a new government of national salvation with two exclusive aims: For Greece to remain in the euro and to amend the terms of the loan agreements so that there is economic growth and relief for Greek society."
Before the elections, Samaras had insisted he would not form a coalition with his socialist rivals.
Syriza head Alexis Tsipras said the drubbing of New Democracy and PASOK, which had signed Greece's loan agreements, meant "their signatures have lost legal legitimacy by the popular vote."
"The people have rewarded a proposal made by us to form a government of the Left that will cancel the loan agreements and overturn the course of our people toward misery," Tsipras said.
Both statements are likely to alarm Greece's international creditors, who will be watching the debt-ridden country closely to see if it is meeting the strict fiscal targets of spending cuts and boosting revenue in return for rescue loans that are keeping it from default. The country is expected to take yet more austerity measures in June.
Partial official results with 48 percent of the vote counted showed New Democracy with 20.05 percent, Syriza with 16.02 percent and PASOK with 13.84 percent.
Golden Dawn, which rejects the neo-Nazi label and calls itself a nationalist partriotic party, had 6.86 percent - a meteoric rise for a party that won just 0.23 in the previous elections in 2009.
"Greek citizens should not fear us, the only ones who should fear us are the traitors," Golden Dawn leader Nikolaos Michaloliakos told The Associated Press. The outcome is particularly devastating to PASOK, which won a landslide victory in the last parliamentary elections in 2009 with more than 43 percent of the vote.
"For us at PASOK, the day is particularly painful," Venizelos said. "We new that we would pay the price, having taken a emotionally and politically unbearable position to take the measures that were necessary."
He ruled out a two-party government with New Democracy and called for a broad coalition of pro-European parties, regardless of their stance on the bailouts.
"A coalition government of the old two-party system would not have sufficient legitimacy or sufficient domestic and international credibility if it would gather a slim majority," Venizelos said. "A government of national unity with the participation of all the parties that favor a European course, regardless of their positions toward the loan agreements, would have meaning."
Days of talks are expected as parties attempt to hammer out a governing coalition.
Yannis Androutsopoulos / AP
Former Socialist Prime Minister George Papandreou, second left, is welcomed by supporters prior to casting his ballot in Kalentzi, western Greece, on Sunday.
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The future of America soon heh heh
The future of America is now Constantly Becoming. It becomes according to its Logos, its ethos. The political motto, "Its the economy, stupid!" has been adopted by both the left and the right. It doesn't bode well for either Greece or Western civilization, but there surely must be alternatives. Maybe something on the order that we can't serve both GOod and Mammon. Just sayin.
What happens when your kid goes to college, gets a credit card and runs it up to max? He has to suck it up, live on mac and cheese, and pay it off; hopefully the wiser for it. It's the same thing on a macro scale, we'll have to "eat our peas" as Obama put it.
The problem is he scapegoats by saying the rich should bear the burden. Any idiot who passed 2nd grade math should know that doesn't pass the smell test. If we repealed the Bush tax cuts on the rich and enacted the Buffet rule that would be $75 billion out of a $1.3 trillion problem. Guess where the other 94% is going to come from!!!!
Unfortunately the idiots who believe in something for nothing will vote for Obama and democrats. My only hope is there are enough who believe in reality that will out vote them.
Valhalla Phil
Well i guess, from your statements, that you will be voting for the party that keeps the Big Lie going. You know the lie that it is the rich who pay all the taxes. It is hilarious that you blame the sheep for believing the lie. It is even more hilarious that your answer is to vote for those who tell the lie.
Tell me truthfully if you think the country would have been better off with more tax and spend policies(Dems) and less borrow and spend policies(GOP).
Nutgrape..watch what happens in Greece because you have the same mentality of the Greek people. Put the blame on whom ever you wish, the party is still OVER.
Well said Valhalla Phil, unfortunately we are now a nation of freeloaders and they will do and believe anything to keep getting their free ride until we are sunk. And the rich libs are just a bunch of hypocrites like Buffet who claim they "should be paying more", but they don't, and the freeloaders actually think they are on their side. Face it, the elite libs/progressives just want to keep the freeloaders beholden to the govt. so they can stay in power and get RICHER. MORONS.
@J.C. & valhalla
Yeah, that's what caused the economic collapse, millions of people just decided to quit working because they wanted everything for free. (sarcasm)
Its people who think like that who are truly part of the problem. You people think everyone who lost their jobs or can't move up from their minimum wage entry position is lazy, they just want to live like sh*t.
CEO's and other rich politicians sold us out for more play money for themselves. CEO's give themselves disgusting salaries that could pay thousands of normal people right here. Rich politicians promise those free things to people to get elected and then can't back it up. Once again, not the peoples fault they were lied to.
It is a FACT that when a countries wealth gets more concentrated in the hands of a few, it goes south real fast. The most civil countries have the lowest gap, third-world countries have the highest. Our wage gap keeps climbing at alarming rates. In the 70's a CEO made about 30-40 times more than the lowest paid employee. Now it is 300-500 times.
We are heading straight towards the third-world model of society.
But yeah, just keep voting for more rich people tax breaks, be good little dogs and take your scraps that "trickle down." Hope you don't starve.
Here’s the problem with your train of thought. The dems just want to spend their way
out of everything... so, the flip side of that coin is no better. Having said that, you probably think i disagree with you, but on the contrary, i agree with everything you said. their lies the problem, it is both sides of our gov't that are failing us now, just in complete and opposite ways. It really is like the Greek
gov't to a point, both sides are just killing America. Someday the sides will realize that and stop fighting each other and address the real problem. Until then, nothing... NOTHING will change.
The only real solution is to Fire Them All. Overturn the entire government at the same time. Then and only then will government once again understand it is not in charge but that the people are in charge and the government works for the people, not the other way around. Both parties are the problem. All the talk and focus on whether it is Bush's fault or Obama's fault is nothing more than a well orchestrated and intentional distraction. The president does not spend the money nor pass the budget. Both are done by Congress and Congress, both parties, has managed to spend and promise to spend over 100 trillion dollars that Congress never actually got around to funding with taxes. Congress has chosen the funding mechanism of massive debt to pay for the promises made by Congress. Congress is the problem. So fire congress and move to a solution. Keep congress, keep the same people in power, and continue to get the same as in the past. To me, the solution is obvious. Fire Them All. Never vote for an incumbent.
The way I see it, the silliness must just stop. Greece put itself into a no win game over the past 5 decades. The IMF, world bank and ECB kept feeding a monster that could never be satisfied. There is no way greece could pay off the principal they owe.
It is time to end the IMF and the world bank. Let europe decide what they will do. No more for the federal reserve to prop up the ecb.
The euro is nothing more than just a fairy tale socialism system that must at some point fail. For the past 20 years, germany, poland and even finland are the horses that have been pulling the economic wagon of europe. The others have been sitting inside just enjoying the ride.
Are you saying the German banks are Socialist?? Real Deal Socialists would have nationalized them years ago.They are PRIVATE BANKS just like ours. So they DO NOT have true Socialism in Europe
That's a lie. The EU is heavily socialist. Communism owns the means of production, socialism is wealth redistribution.
Phil you are an idiot and most of us on MSNBC know this ! So back to FOX idiot !
Most people in America do not know what true socialism is. They are brainwashed, half-literate conservatives.
That's why as soon as someone mentions fair pay, or equal opportunity, conservatives cry socialism, even though it's not socialism at all. It's gotten to the point where conservatives are so afraid of the socialist boogyman, that they actually vote for policies that lead to widening wage gaps, mass poverty, and absolutely no charity of any kind.
We are heading straight towards a third-world model of society.
They need to follow the policy of Iceland which is now revitalizing itself from the International Bankers. The last bunch of politicians of Greece really started the country on a monetary death spiral for the profits for the Banks.
If you don't like banks, don't borrow from them. This is all on Greece, they bought votes with borrowed money, pure and simple.
The Greeks have overspent and brought a terrible economic crisis upon themselves. Germany is the nation which holds this joke called the EU together and has a powerful economic base. It has already bailed the Greeks out and established benchmarks for them to meet. However, they're too spoiled in order to get their house in order. Now this character is bringing up WWII as if the Germans are responsible for their laziness and free spending. How pathetic can one get!!!
The German banks loaned Greece money so they could afford to buy German products. Its not anybody's fault that THEY decided to scrape the bottom of the barrel for loans but THEIRS
I hope Greece takes them for every mark they can and THEN goes bust. Why ? Because, haven't you heard, greed is GOOD!!
Only a liberal would say so, (in fact Douglas IS a flaming liberal!). If Greece defaults, it is finished. Nobody will loan them a dime and that will really collapse the country.
You saw what happened in this country when credit seized, that will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen over there.
Sorry guys but Germany would not be as successful if it weren't for Greece. Germany sharing a currency with the "losers" has kept their prices competitive and allowed them to become what they are. They weren't in it with the other countries because of some feeling of charity.
Greece may have been cooking the books, but if they Germans didn't at least suspect, it was because they didn't want to know.
But don't you know, the rich and powerful people/countries aren't responsible for anything. It's the poor/powerless who ruin everything. Everyone knows that when you have money you turn into a mystical being that is incapable of doing wrong. And when you don't have it you turn into a big pile of sh*t.
People in Greece are actually starving, some are giving up their kids because they cannot feed them, and people actually say Greece deserves it? Maybe the politicians deserve to hang, but the people didnt do anything wrong.
Critical times hard to deal with, will be here.
Too funny-- a conservative who does not want to be beholden to the Capitalists and goes with Nationalism instead. Next up : he agrees govt stimulus spending is a great idea!
The euro and EU are going down when Spain goes bust so WHY NOT get out now and start anew sooner rather than later. Rumor has it a Spain default is inevitable as their banks get downgraded and tax revenues fall further due to recession, austerity measures and deflation
Austerity measures are the ONLY way out. It amazes me people still believe you can spend your way out of debt. There is no free lunch, you've thrown a hell of a party but maxed out your credit card to do so. Now it's time to pay the piper.
If Greece ends up nixing the EU deal, and/or the Socialists get elected in France, the banking dominoes will start falling by this summer.
Rumor is Morgan Stanley -- another Lehman Bros in size-- has a LOT of exposure to European banks via derivatives. So if there is a run on the European banks-- or they just go bust before a run--its 2008 all over again and time for another TARP. Why not? it worked the LAST time, right
What do you call it when taxpayers are used to bail out Capitalism? Surely not Socialism or Communism and it most certainly cannot be called Capitalism. So that leaves Fascism-- using Middle Class tax money to bail out the upper class as necessary to maintain the status quo
good logic David
At least in Florida you can buy sink-hole insurance. Why don't the rest of you have it?
Tarp was a LOAN, not a handout. It was mostly paid back. The two biggest who still owe are AIG and GM in that order.
I keep hearing that valhalla but if so where is it. It was not used to pay down the national debt, so who's pocket is it in, obama's? Did it mysteriously evaporate?
Good point Dave. Yet if these CEO's were ever made to divert their money to help out the government or its people they would scream and cry that it was unfair.
The upper class for the most part is only interested in what they can take. Greed hiding behind laws is still greed, it doesn't change the wrongness of it. They see themselves as the hand that feeds us, so they deserve to be bailed out when they f*ck up.
When people arent held accountable for anything, they think that they are above everything.
Would the Socialists nationalize the French banks? Especially if they are on the verge of going bust?
I doubt it, it is not in the French spirit, so don't short the bank stock yet.
they are more capitalist and free enterprise than the "communist-socialist- Russian style" vilifying I have observed on the Vine( by ethnocentric greedy American Republicans who after all just want slaves working for them). After all, words like "entrepreuneur" "laissez-faire" and concepts of right to property and free enterprise are French as well.
As I see the evolution of this world and the excesses of America and others I am glad to realize that a model of society and the spirit of fairness and freedom are still alive and better embodied by France than America.
the French "liberte, egalite, fraternite" still beats "in God we trust" as a social ideological concept.
Ancient Greece is about to remake history as well, If Germany doesn't like it the only thing they can do about it is go to war with them, but Greece is not the only one to change in the near future. It appears a new deal with new hands is coming for the Western world. Some are afraid they will lose (mostly due to their inept and unethical minds) but prosperity will be good for everyone.
Do not think for one second or fraction thereof that we would be any different than the Greeks if faced with massive social spending cuts.. Worked all your life and have a pension? Tough we are reneging of 40% of it. Seeing a Doctor? tough social medicine you have paid all your life for no longer is solvent. Working and not being paid cause your boss is broke... Get used to it!
That's the problem with socialism, it invariably promises what it can't deliver. We've been heading for this moment in history for decades and it's finally here. It doesn't matter whether the masses like it or not, you cannot cheat reality.
Gates and Buffet are two of the richest men on the planet yet their entire vast fortune wouldn't even run our government for a week, that is the scope of our running expenditures. Our debt is far worse, so that kills the "tax the rich" canard.
Another idea is to just print more money. The problem with that is hyperinflation where no one can afford anything. The only valid solution is a national belt tightening, austerity. As painful as that will be it's vastly superior to the other two.
Note, Greece is not stil in trouble because of austerity, it is in trouble because it is fighting austerity. Austerity would solve the problem, they just don't want to pay the price.
Samaras is about to eat his words pre-election "We (New Democracy) will not support another coalition government". Meanwhile, the anti-austerity measure leftist party SYRIZA has come in a VERY CLOSE second in the polls. PASOK is a distant third. The right and left can't work together. Neither has garnered enough of the vote to rule alone. New Democracy is afraid to ask for a re-election vote because they know the rest of the smaller anti-austerity measures parties will flock to SYRIZA's end of the ring, beating them out for sure.
In other words, what we've got here is FALIURE to choose a government, a political deadlock. Get ready for chaos.
We are different in many ways from Greece, but we still need to take our debt to GDP sustainable ratio seriously and fix numerous things
Examples:
1. Although we have some corruption and fraud issues we need to agressively tackle - we are nothing like Greece in the "tax evasion" and corruption departments
2. The number of Greece's "Public Employees" as a proportion of their "working population labor force" is a bit higher than ours
3. Greece has much more "public funded" support for education and health like much of europe (put this in context of rampant "tax evasion and corruption" that causes a significant drain on what whould be avialable revenue
I do beleive they overspent - given revenue as many are, but we in the us can get our debt to GDP back in order with a balanced approach to revenue, spending reduction, and tackling fraud and corrupton -- we have to take a long view to do this -- not extreme right or left views
This will include dealing with our shifting population demographics -- "boomers like me" and the ever growing population older than 65 and those living even longer
it we take "adults" in congress wish to work together for a balance long term approach -- Something we are short on this days - with extremes.
It is a balance issue.. we need tax reform that improves revenue, we need to work all area spending to sustainable levels.. This includes the need to reduce defense spending (I'm a retire military officer - 2009 and do beleive we waste great deals of money in DOD)
many adjustments can be done here that gives us long term ways to get our debt to gdp back in a sustainable path
The Greeks are the dummies of all dummies, followed by the totally clueless American, who have come to believe that borrowing and living beyond ones means is the way to go.... electing representatives who promise every welfare and handout that can be given to ensure another term in office (Obama?)... regardless that there is no real money to pay for it. Americans have been living beyond their means for 40 years now, and are clueless as to the consequences. The Nanny State Greek & US Governments have created a mostly brain dead lazy populace addicted to every freebie they can grab, with no care or understanding of the consequences.
The first order of business is to collect income tax from ALL citizens.... and in the USA that means the 49% of Americans at the bottom who because of write-offs and deductions pay ZERO in Federal Income Tax. I would be delighted if these whining bums at the bottom paid the 15% to 17% that someone like Buffet pays.
Stop all welfare and handouts... all you get are more poor needly and uneducated.... and promotion of Reverse Evolution... survival of the dumbest, laziest, and least productive genes.
Stop spending more than comes in, and ammortize the US debt over 15 years and pay it off. This will give the public the reality check it needs and help to end the brainwashed and erroneous concept that the USA is the richest country in the world. A country that is rich is not 76 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT (16 Trillion plus 60 Trillion in unfunded Social Security and Medicare promises).
A financial means test for having children, a one-child limit and forced abortions is the wave of the future, if this planet is to survive. A payment of $2500 to all women who will be sterilized would go a long way towards eliminating poverty, crime, and prison costs.
As long as 60% of Americans are magical (religious) thinkers, no real progress will ever be made. The con of organized religion requires masses of less intelligent and poor to survive.
Remember that in the world of magical (religious) thinking, things are true unless proven false. In the REAL world, things are false unless proven true.
Greeks and Americans, the party is over. The lifestyle you became accustomed to was paid for with borrowed money and promises. The day of reality is now here, and Greeks and Americans should expect a much lower and more realistic standard of living. Those who have stayed out of debt and not depended on handouts will do just fine, and that is the way it should be.
Your logic had me...and then you have to go and wax religious.....Sad story.
The sad story is a brainwashed adult following a fairy tale as fact.
Yup, I'm American and have virtually no debt (unlike the majority) but I live within my means, always have. I've watched so many around me benefit from taking loans they cant afford and then win a lawsuit against the bank that gave it to them. I watch them squat on a house siting the bank is at fault, but last time I checked those loans were signed by two parties, and the payee is somehow not responsible in America.
The day of reckoning is at hand for those that spent into debt without a care in the world. Unfortunately, they will pull all of us bleeding hearts down with them.
God help us all.
To Hades with Greece. They will forever be a debtor nation and then the world will tire of their childish refusal to reform their foolish lifestyles and fend for themselves. Hope they like olive oil and goat cheese.
Every country needs to go back to their own currency. Putting all eggs in the Euro basket was a dumb idea for those who are fiscally responsible. Britain you saw this coming!
Every country needs to go back to a gold/silver currency. A fiat currency has never succeeded over time.
Derivatives have a similar effect of a common currency like the Euro, risk is distributed. One fail, all fail.
Vee haf vays of makink you pay..... ROFL!
The way you get out of a deep recession or depression is spend, current policies of austerity just drive the economic ship into deeper water. And some of you want to drill more and bigger holes in the bottom, idiocy. We have had 35 plus years of voodoo economics, cutting taxes running up ever greater deficits and we are to get out of it by cutting more taxes, more jobs, again idiocy. Running major wars while cutting taxes, reducing protections against bank speculations and other stupidity, all this is beyond idiocy it verges on treason. J'accuse these are in fact, acts of treason in the name of big business and the criminal class of talking faces owned by their [ the wealthy] think tanks and foundations. Ever since Reagan we have been told that if we cut taxes the economy would be the better for it, that the growth in wealth would trickle down, well it don't trickle it goes to the wealthy and there it sits, more idiocy...so when phil is in valhalla be it now or a hundred years from now the trickle will still be any day now. You have fallen for a con job, your head has run into the same wall over and over and you still believe, this goes beyond idiocy into the realm of the moronic.
Irony is that Obama could have his socialist agenda if he were not so enslaved by his environmental lobby. Canada and Norway both have his agenda in place and they are doing fine because they supplement with oil revenues. North Dakota has less tha 4% inflation and needs very little taxes as its oil development is subsidizing the state government. Alaska had not only dropped its state income tax but was giving rebates to its citizens from the revenues garnered by oil development. Obama is making us like that destitute man dying in poverty even while he had thousands under his mattress.
Pass the pipe Bill, you've had too much. Give us 1 example that your storyline isn't BS
Greek voters are voting on how to go bankrupt
Same thing will happen here in a few years. Deficit spending will bankrupt us. GOP will institute austerity measures to bring us back. The selfish liberals will riot when they lose their precious doles and vote them out. And we can now watch as Greece shows us where we will go from there. It is occurring on a micro level right now in Wisconsin although I believe that those voters will be smarter than Greece was today!
What the nanny state has done to the character of the citizens of Greece is horrible. Dependent upon the state for wants and needs, they rebel like children spoken to sternly by adults about the responsibilities that accompany rights.
Such is the seductive nature of all governments who promise to take care of their citizens and protect them from the vagaries of life.
Is it to late for America to change course or are we doomed to go Forward?
Time is growing short. Responsible action is required soon, and with all the juvenile minds we have in D.C., I'm not optimistic.
Greeks are understandably angry with politicians who have lied for years promising them a free lunch, and then living on borrowed money. Now the lenders have said 'no more', thus crippling the Greek economy.
Allowing that anger to undo the only honest thing these politicians have done in years - the austerity programs - will only cause the Greeks more pain.
The U.S. is stupidly, following the same path, living on borrowed money from China. Does anyone think that China is really our friend?
American voters ought to wake up, and elect politicians that will correct the path before we reach the Greek situation.
p.s. - There isn't anyone big enough, or rich enough to bail out the U.S. when the crisis comes. Think $15 Trillion of borrowed money and growing.
Yes, the Greek people have spoken and what they have said is burn you frackin big banks burn! People have to have the balls to fight these big banks head on, the politicians dont have the balls so the people will have to do it. Hopefully this will end the big bank corruption ruining the world, and set us on a path to a new golden age of freedom. As it stands right now we are all debt slaves to the big banks, burning them down is the only path to freedom.
Morlack...whats your plan. Bet you don't have any idea.
My plan is for the big banks to fall so we can get to the business of rebuilding. Those that say we are dependent upon a few banks are lying. Our economy is way to diverse and complex for such a simpleton explanation. There is no such thing as being dependent upon a few companies, the whole notion is beyond absurdity. This argument of dependency is a lie based only on fear which is supposed to turn us into sheep to dupe us into allowing these corrupt companies to have their way. Letting fear make decisions for us is stupid, I will NEVER let fear coerce me into tolerating corruption.
Where does the average business or person get the money? The govt. has screwed the small banks with all its regulation. I agree, let the big banks fail but we better change some regs so the small banks can take up the slack.
OK im sorry but the big banks made and then duped governments around the world to buy their fake financial products, and this is what has caused the financial meltdown. The big banks ARE the rich people, the rich people created this mess, and as such the rich people beard the burden of fixing this mess. extremely simple logic. Rich people who enrich themselves directly at the expense of innocent others should never be tolerated. People becoming rich through HARD HONEST work, THAT is the american dream.
Don't smoke drink or do drugs, what I want to know is what are you trickle downers on, almost 40 years and it still don't trickle but you guys want to stay the course, hah this spring is dead no trickle and that is that. In the long run you can't get out of this rut unless money is spent. If banks wont loan and if business wont hire until they see the recovery and the people are afraid to spend or don't have the wherewithal to spend that leaves government. Finding Prussia in depression during a lull in the wars he fought against Austria [the holy roman empire] Friedrich the Great put his troops to work building roads and canals, provided funds for draining swamps, imported people to farm those acres, forced the powerful to aid in the work he had ordered, debased the currency by adding less noble metals to the coinage to increase the money supply. In the case of the great depression we basically did the same thing, some say that it was the war that ended the thing but if you look at it what happened during WW2, we finally spent enough because the gold bugs etc were unable to restrain spending or cut it every time things started to get better. I do hope we don,t have to have a monarchist revolution to fix this, cause I don't see a Freidrich at hand, a WW3 I can do without also. Government is there for a reason use it.
There is a cultural problem, in Greece. Like Mexico, there is massive tax cheating and corruption. Without a shift in public perception, these countries will collect less than half of the revenues that the should. The first two requirements, in a successful economy, is infrastructure and the rule of law. China has built the infrastructure and rule of law FOR THEIR COMPANIES. But, China is failing at almost every other "rule of law" area. Without a level, legal playing field, we all are doomed! This applies to every country.
Ding Ding! We have a winner...
I'm inclined towards a more optimistic outcome to the ones predicting doom above. If Greece defaults on their loans and works together to create a prosperous Greece than they have a chance at least. With the current austerity measures they have no chance of rebuilding the nation. In fact, the countries who stand to lose the most are the ones holding the debt and that is why there is so much defiance in the population. Greece needs to embrace tighter fiscal and political control but their only hope is doing so of their own initiative. It's rare that a child hops on a bike and learns to ride without falling down a few times.
Try to remember that the decision to enter into the EU was made and sold by corrupt politicians who only represent a portion of the population. The same type of empty promise making individuals who stand near single digit approval ratings here in the US. Neither side is completely right or wrong; we approach our governance in a manner that never allows us to move forward and both options will lead to our demise. Greater minds need to look for better solutions than just right or left ideologies and the people do need more freedom, policy control and involvement in their governments all around the world.
Another thing I love is the conservative????? non activist supreme court,, Corporations are people too, give me a break, what nonsense. This has no constitutional basis, in the day a corporation was chartered for a specific time to do a specific thing, at the end of that time its owners had to go back to the state and seek an extension of the charter or else shut it down. The founding fathers would be hysterical laughing at this idea, corporations are people, hah you've got to be joking.