As an ex-patriot now living in Paris I did not believe I had a dog in this fight, up until I watched the debate a few nights ago as more of an exercise in the French language than anything. When I heard Sarkozys plan to halve legal immigration and his anti-immigrant rhetoric I couldn't help but be reminded of how I felt in the U.S. I am a U.S. citizen, born in Mexico it took me 15 years to gain citizenship. Throughout the entire time up until I left the U.S. I commonly heard people tell me I should go back to my own country, that I shouldn't speak Spanish in public to my Latino friends and that I better keep all my documents with me or risk being another mistaken deportation back into Mexico, or El Salvador or Guatemala, who cares right? Another immigrant less "taking our jobs and welfare." But yesterday France rejected the notion that immigrants were the problem for their woes. They embraced the concept that the rich should pay higher taxes, the banks should be more regulated, people should be able to retire with dignity and that all this anti-immigration talk is just dividing us, when we should be united. It took me 15 years to become an American citizen, it will only take me 5 to become French. Thank you France.

sorry, thom. regardless of whether you like him, or agree with his policies, or execution of policies, your education by charlatans is obviously tripping you up.

Looks like Old Europe is in for a world of hurt. Give it three years max and these countries are going to go under. The rampant entitlement mentality of the populations will be their downfall. It's almost a perfect storm. You have some countries with reasonably sound fiscal and social policies and then you have the rest. The weight of these parasitic parts on the of the EU will be too much for the whole to handle. Given the propensity of the EU populations to violence I would not be surprised to see another major conflict arise there in the next 5 to 10 years. Russia will be there to stir the pot as well. The US is at a turning/tipping point. The pendulum either snaps its tether and continues to fly off on a radical leftward bound tangent or there are still enough responsible self-reliant Americans fed-up with an overbearing intrusive nanny-state government who know our only salvation is to embrace the ideals of our Founders and the US Constitution. We shall see in November.

sailor'52 "Is the French president-elect going to follow the way obama does business? Standby!!! Wait and see."


Indeed. It was easy to see why the French voted him out - he said that an 'austerity' program was needed to prevent a debt collapse, but Hollande campaigned on a promise "You don't have to sacrifice, and I'll keep giving you all of those free services and keep up the deficit spending if you elect me".


If one candidate promises sacrifice and the other promises more freebies, guess which will win?

Unfortunately, this will only speed up the process toward bankruptcy, just like Obama's policies will do if he is reelected.

At least we'll see the effects of socialist policies on their economy, and it should be a good test of the 'Laffer Curve'. The most immediate effect will likely be a drop in the value of the Euro and an increase in the interest rate on any new French debt, as well as a flight of capital out of France.

Germany is the key, and if they get disgusted and stop financially supporting those southern European countries and their outrageous welfare programs, all of them will slide into a financial collapse.

thom ... the GOP is all about scaring people ... socialism scares people in the U.S. ... so once again the GOP jumps into play with their scare tactics .......

If you want to call giving the middle class a break "socialism" ... so be it ....

But before calling people uneducated morons ... you sir need to make yourself aware of what socialism really is and stop being merely a generic parrot of the GOP ..........

Do you really think that the U.S. and the World Banking Cartel is going to allow the E.U. to go belly up?

Those who orchestrated this entire financial debacle, will continue to manipulate the financial systems to maintain their power and wealth.

Others have been making the "tipping point" assertion of doom and gloom since U.S. independence of 1776.

Moderates will show up at the polls in November, and cooler heads will prevail.

Media's focus on the extreme right or left sells news, but Mainstream America has never been Extreme!

Socialism has been the downfall of many of the European Countries and if we re-elect President to another 4 years the Euro will rise against the Dollar as it falls.

Socialism does not work because it removes the incentive to work and make a better life for you and your family

Carl Hubert ... it seems to me that capitalism didn't work under Bush as well ...

But come on ... this socialism crap is just another ploy to get the darky out of the White House!!!

And your little cartoon plainly shows where you are coming from ...

Irespond, ok, you're right, Obama's not a socialist, Marxist is more appropriate.

So add France to the list of countries who will be a risk of default. It's hard to win an election when one side promises voters they will get things from the government if they are elected and the other side tells the truth which is there is no more to give.

Well, now liberals will see, again, that socialism is a failure, like every time it has been tried. Will they learn anything, doubtful, they have learned nothing yet.

@newscover:

Being that you are far better educated than many here, why don't you share your knowledge and explain 'Socislism' to all who don't have your grasp of things?

Mr. Hollande is actually quite moderate within his party. President Sarkozy was not at all a popular president and he most certainly did not and does not live a lifestyle of austerity not particularly setting the example he tried to purport. There is also an extreme right element in France which received a relatively large percentage of the vote in the first round of the elections two weeks ago under the lead of Marine Le Pen who is at least more moderate than her father. After the first round Sarkozy did his best to rally her voters to his side. Why in the world would Mr Hollande who comes from a middle class background in France across the ocean and from a distinctly different culture, system and way of doing things be compared to Obama? Is it merely the word Socialism? Obama is hardly a member of the French Socialist Party. I believe France has something to the effect of 19 nationally represented political parties from every possible spectrum which is why they need two rounds of presedential elections to whittle things down. At a minimum they have more to choose from. Its their country, their choice, their own way of thinking and maneuvering. French Socialism runs the gamut and has many centrists and is most definitely not dictatorial. If it doesn't work out elections will come again and the many parties that exist giving wide ranging choice to the people who will choose their own way of doing things. The French people spoke their will for the present, not ours.

justathought,That is a very wierd post for this forum.A well thought out,moderate comment, who would have guessed.

Sounds familiar? Yes! We need to make sure that the GOP does not follow Sarkozy's lead with the "Austerity"plan of Paul Ryan.

Are you delusional or uninformed?

Paul Ryan's plan doesn't cut one cent in govt spending. In fact, the spending increases (with national debt) through the entire plan!

Only in Orwellian America is spending more next year "austerity". Only here could you call spending more year to year a "cut". Only here could you call spending more and increasing debt, just a bit less than the other Party's spending plan and debt increases mind you, a "Draconian" measure.

You are completely propagandized and lost. Educate yourself...he cuts NOTHING.

You want cuts ladies and gentlemen? Look to Ron Paul...he's the only one who proposed any plan to CUT anything. Everyone else just slows the growth of spending and debt.

And 30 year plans are a joke!!! We can't legally hold one Congress to the next Congress' plan without a balanced budget Amendment...which isn't ever likely to happen!

If you want to call giving the middle class a break "socialism" ... so be it ....

Naive much? Is that what they did when they bailed out rich bankers and corporates and unions (that only represent 12% of the U.S. workforce)?

Obama, Bush, and Romney aren't socialists...they're fascists using fascist (Third Way) economics. Socialize the losses, privatize the gains...that's their plans.

If you think Obama is not a sociopath like Bush and Rmney, and he is fighting for the middle clas, you're delusional.

newscover

Carl Hubert ... it seems to me that capitalism didn't work under Bush as well ... SEE BELOW

But come on ... this socialism crap is just another ploy to get the darky out of the White House!!! Race Card give it a break

And your little cartoon plainly shows where you are coming from ... I like mine better after blowing 5.1 Trillion in 3 years.

-------------------

Under Bush everything was fine but not great.

9/11 . Funding two wars , a dotcom recession starting in late 1999 and ending in 2003 didn't help Bush but unemployement avg 5.2% , and all was good until the massive housing breakdown.

What and who caused the housing mess ?? 1. the GSEs , 2. the Liberal DEMs , and 3.socialism started in 1994 under Clinton.

1. Like ENRON that started the dotcom recession the mis-management of Frank Raines and the GSEs

2. Arthur Davis , Barney Fanks & Maxine Waters killed the efforts by Pres Bush to regulate and control the GSEs. Franks was head of the financial commitee and Davis and Waters both rallied against the regulators who saw the problems long before the collapse of the GSEs. They also stalled in the process smaller companies like country wide too.

To quote Maxine Waters and show how out of touch she was:

"Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in par- ticular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines. Everything in the 1992 act has worked just fine. In fact, the GSEs have exceeded their housing goals. What we need to do today is to focus on the regulator, and this must be done in a manner so as not to impede their affordable housing mission, a mission that has seen innovation flourish from desktop underwriting to 100% loans. - Rep. Maxine Waters (D.-Calif.)

100% loans that was real freaking smart and instant desktop underwriting too. **eyes roll**

3. Socialism --

Fannie Mae’s commitment to rural housing in underscored through our American Drean Commitment, a ten year 2 Trillion pledge to increase homeownership rates and serve 19 millin targeted American families by 2010. This commitment includes the Opportunity for All Strategy, designed to address the unique needs of targeted groups, including rural dwellers.

Fannie Mae is partnering with the USDA’s Rural Housing Service (RHS) on its Section 502 Guaranteed Rural Housing loan product, which provides low- and moderate- income rural Housing loans that are guaranteed by GHS can be submitted for analysis through Fannie Mae’s Desktop Underwriter and Desktop Originator.

Requirements: someare as follows:

5. Family income cannot exceed the RHS income limit

11. LTV of 100% of appraised market value and CLTV of 105% allowed

12. No Cash reserves required, although the presence of reserves may improve the ecommendation.

Basically anyone who can fog a mirror gets a 100% loan and if they are hurting for money there is a provison to increase the 30 Year loans upto 40 year loans too. AVG loan is 33years.

the French have passed the tipping point... the Socialists have hooked more than 50% on entitlements ("free healthcare... free retirement... lavish paid leave... low productivity") so they'll do nothing to reign in their spending... and they'll collapse... and the rest of Europe will collapse with them... our choice is do we run off the same cliff or use some fiscal common sense?

Actions of Sarkozy and Republicans are similar. They dance to Saudis, oil companies and their lobbyists.

Left to Republicans, there would have been Iran war by now and Syrian intervention as Saudis are in a big hurry!

For conservatives, these are highly disgusting.

The right wing parrots here are kinda funny. They obviously don't know anything about history or economics (calling Obama a Marxist is just....stupid). They say socialism has never worked, but deny the obvious proven fact (not opinion) that pure capitalism does not and has never worked either. They also have never been able to intelligently explain how cutting spending will bring prosperity. But why let facts and logic get in the way of a good anti-intellectual expression of dogma.

France made a choice and it will be interesting to see who benfits. My guess is that this will be very successful for the French. Get the rich to pay their fair share and level the playing field away from being haevily tipped towards the financial class and we might start to see real recovery.

Pure socialism works just as well as pure capitalism. You need something in the middle.....like we aretrying to get done here in the US, but are being held back by the ideology of the morally and intellectually bankrupt right.

Ferrosynthesis,

France made a choice and it will be interesting to see who benfits. My guess is that this will be very successful for the French. Get the rich to pay their fair share and level the playing field away from being haevily tipped towards the financial class and we might start to see real recovery.

How do you figure oh genius? Raising the income tax to 75% for those making over $1 million will accomplish nothing. The increased taxes received from the wealthy won't even put a scratch in their debt and that's from the wealthy you can collect it from. There is no law in France preventing the wealthy from pulling chalks and moving to a more tax friendly country? You are typical of the juvenile left. Schadenfreude is not a very attractive personality trait. Kids these days.

So the real test will be the effect on the French economy. Here's my guess;

- Lenders will charge much higher interest rates on any new French debt to compensate for a higher risk of default.

- Capital from the 'rich' moving their assets out of the country will create a credit crunch = higher business borrowing costs.

- New regulations will target businesses, raising their costs.

- Businesses will cut employees to try to minimize their losses - increasing unemployment.

- The social 'safety-net' costs will skyrocket as more ex-workers file claims for welfare.

- The French economy will stagnate or turn into a recession.

- The increases in the Deficits will cause inflation to increase.

- The French people will finally get it - 'There is no Free Lunch'.

The REAL question is; Will the Americans follow suit and reelect Obama?

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse for Europe, it just got worse.

Definition of socialism:

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Just thought I'd put that out there, it seems some people need reminding.

They say socialism has never worked, but deny the obvious proven fact (not opinion) that pure capitalism does not and has never worked either

Pure socialism, in terms of the state, has been tried, and has failed everytime. You can't ban private ownership of the means of production and have a non-collapse. This only works in voluntary communes, not in states (non-voluntary organization).

Pure "capitalism" is a stateless society. In a free market ALL services and goods are produced privately, including defense, police, law, roads, etc.

For this reason, you cannot point to a time when "pure capitalism" has ever been tried. It's a relatively new idea, along with most stateless philosophy.

So, for you to say " pure capitalism" doesn't work is erroneous...it's never been tried. It will be tried eventually though. More and more people are becoming anarchists...and in doing so, they will create a free territory eventually that allows for only voluntary associations in every way, including economic. When this occurs both socialism and "capitalism" (actually free markets, not state capitalism at all - which doesn't have corporations or corporate personhood; manifestations of the state) will exist simultaneously in what is called anarcho synthesis, or panarchism (pan-anarchism).

In this way, both will succeed just fine. The only question will be...which will the majority of people choose to associate with freely? My bet is on market anarchism.

Care to wager?

PS. Stateless socialism does not have taxes, as taxes are coercion. Only authoritarians tax. Willing "tax" is called a donation. Look up "tax" if you don't believe me...it's not willing, by definition.

Roy - many of those things are happening in places that are being run by right (centre right) wing governments, that are promoting austerity programs. They are drifting back into recessions with the middle and working classes suffering more and more while a top few percent are actually doing much better, year on year, since 2008.

How is it that Germany's austerity plan mirrors ryan's plan and they are doing better than all of Europe?

Thanks, Rob. You forgot to add that socialism is pure evil and never works.

I bet the bankers are sh..ting in their pants seeing what is happening in Europe...

They say socialism has never worked, but deny the obvious proven fact (not opinion) that pure capitalism does not and has never worked either. They also have never been able to intelligently explain how cutting spending will bring prosperity. But why let facts and logic get in the way of a good anti-intellectual expression of dogma.

What is "pure capitalism" and when was it tried? If you think what we have in America is "pure capitalism" I will have to say B.S.! Pure Capitalism doesn't have Solyndra's and bank bailouts. I don't think Obama is a socialist in the sense he wants to nationalize everything, but I would say he tends to lean towards Government control and intervention more then even some moderate democrats do.

How does cutting spending bring prosperity you ask. Well it doesn't. How does raising taxes on businesses and personal income "bring prosperity"? I would say it doesn't, the question then becomes what works best for the people. The Government doesn't make money, every dollar it spends it either has to take from someone in taxes or it borrows, the larger the Government the more it must take and borrow, at a certain point you have to small of a private sector trying to support to large of a public sector and the private sector can not compete or thrive with such a burden. Government is needed, but the more limited you can make it the less burden you will put on your private sector, and it is the private sector where most prosperity is made.

"Fair Share" is always being talked about with those on the left and I have to ask what is a"fair share"? The rich in this country already pay 1/2 of their income to taxes, and only 1/2 of the country even pays Federal Income tax. Should someone who studied hard in school, worked hard out of school, took great risk with a new business or investment be made to pay more then 50% of their profit? Would you work hard in school, work hard in a private business, and risk some of your money if even if you succeededyou only got say 10-20% of what was made? If the wealthy were made to give me a free ride I wouldn't work hard at all, I would enjoy myself and take the free ride. What would we do if 1/2 of the so called 1%'s took their money and business to China? Would we be better off with them leaving? There is a big middle between Socialism and Capitalism, where exactly you get your best results in that middle is debated, but this country has become a very wealthy nation and leader of the world with a system that I think was closer to Pure Capitalism then even soft socialism.

In this way, both will succeed just fine. The only question will be...which will the majority of people choose to associate with freely? My bet is on market anarchism.

Care to wager?

Really?

What you're talking about is a system where there is no state controlled police force, so people will have to arrange to be part of a private system of policing. That means only those that can pay would be protected. How does that work out? Ditto the fire service. You realize there was a reason that fire services were centralized? The roads too. You want a system where the only negotiable roads are those in areas where people have the money to pay for them to be built/maintained?

And you think people will go for this?

Via La France! Let's hope this signals the end of the gravy train for Wall Street. Greed on Wall Street brought the world to its knees...and they got all their wealth back at the expense of the middle class. We have a socialist system for the rich and the idiots who believe in capitalism actually think this system we have in place is capitalism...it's a rigged game for the super rich. Wake up...the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy class just occurred. Sorry...a robust economy depends on the middle class not the rich. When the middle class goes down...so does the party for the rich...but they're so greedy and full of their self importance they'll never get it. Be careful....there could be revolution on the horizon!

Logic - 'pure capitalism' was rampant in 19th century - both in US and Europe. It's 'glory' gave birth to communism and national socialism, because people were abused by the 'pure capitalists'. Apparently you are stuck in the utopia totally discredited by history.

"Fair Share" is always being talked about with those on the left and I have to ask what is a"fair share"? The rich in this country already pay 1/2 of their income to taxes, and only 1/2 of the country even pays Federal Income tax. Should someone who studied hard in school, worked hard out of school, took great risk with a new business or investment be made to pay more then 50% of their profit? Would you work hard in school, work hard in a private business, and risk some of your money if even if you succeededyou only got say 10-20% of what was made?

Fair share (to me at least) means actually paying the rates that are there for starters. I'm not sure where you get the idea that 'the rich' pay half their income in taxes, because it's been proven time and again that they don't.

As for only half of the people paying federal taxes. Well, I would LOVE for that number to be much higher. I would LOVE for that number to be close to 100%. But that will only happen if the wage gap between rich and poor is narrowed. Those that don't pay federal taxes don't pay them for a reason. there isn't anything to take.

And, besides the fact that nobody would ever get only 10-20% of what was made, even IF the tax rate was 80 or 90% (taxes do not work that way), then yes, people would still do the work to make that money because it would still increase their wealth in significant amounts. Taxing at 80%, for every million over $1m (forget the first $1m, it's taxed at a different rate) that still makes a person $200,000. That's still a substantial amount of money. You look at the super rich people who make $300 million a year and you're talking and extra $6m.

All of you *it is socialism* *cut-baby-cut* Republibans need to get one of the cheap walmart long distant cards and call up England and Spain and ask them *How is that austerity thingy working out for you*.

And for the rah-rah-we're-number-one idiots how is this Extreme Capitalism of the R Money camp working out for you?

Humans are not snakes, well except for lawyers and politicians.

We are SOCIAL, just like apes, cats and a whole bunch of Mothers Nature's Children.

Please take and on-line course in Government 101 before you vote this country into oblivion.

Thanks, Rob. You forgot to add that socialism is pure evil and never works.

No I didn't, because it's not. People have hijacked the idea for their own purposes, but that makes them evil, not the idea. I happen to think it's wonderful ideal, but that it's totally impractical because of what we are like as human beings, most notably that we do need to be able to compete and better ourselves. However, that does not mean that some aspects are not beneficial.

Good riddance! Now he has time to do what he does best...hang out on yachts...

Good for you France....they have been witness to the destruction of their country via capitalist greed, and the people have had enough.

For all of you who say Socialism doesnt work...

Its sure working out good for countries like Norway, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Switzerland.....etc etc

Capitalism DOES work.... if it is not completely choked down by the gov.

It is what made the USA great in the first place. Most of the hardships in this country were caused by or extended by left leaning leaders.

If you do not agree then read a friggen history book.

Roy,

- Businesses will cut employees to try to minimize their losses - increasing unemployment.

It's worse than that. Businesses in France can't just cut employees. Google it and see. I'm surprised the country hasn't already gone under.

I don't need a history book, I've watched capitalist greed destroy this country before my very eyes.

Yes capitalism made America great, that was a long time ago when the people at the top still had a sense of common good for the country, but like I said...

That was a long time ago...

The "austerity"plans of Sarkozy only applied to the middle class and the very poor.

Of COURSE. It is those groups who, by and large, were (and are) the recipients of the unsustainable pensions and health care programs that the country's economy could not support. This is what happens when a government uses programs paid for by taxpayers, to bribe those same taxpayers into re-electing/electing them. They bribe them with more and more government spending on entitlement programs until it is no longer sustainable. Alexander deTocqueville recognized this phenomenon in our own nation's early history:

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

Then, when the bottom falls out, those programs MUST BE CUT. This is the reality of France's situation, and sadly, the people there have just voted for a resumption of long-term decline. We're headed down the same path.

ERock. I have read plenty. They all described the late 1800s and early 1900s as total free market, where big business gobbled up people's land, other businesses and generally ran amok, taking everything they could get their hands on in the name of the almighty dollar. Enter the bankers and the Stock Market in early 1900s.

That started mass speculation on intangible items and futures. By 1938 they had driven the country to bankruptcy. Stock brokers were throwing themselves out of buildings because the freedoms had enabled them to lose other peoples money, as well as their own. Roosevelt fixed it all with regulations and what you call Socialist measures. By that time, the situation was so dire that even the hardcore right wingers embraced his approach. before 20 years had passed, the people Roosevelt had stripped of their power started trying to take it back again, eliminating those regulations. Now, a good portion of those New deal programs have been torn apart, and the same thing happened again in 2008. 70 years.

YOU sir, are the one who needs to pick up a friggen History book...but then again, you may need some critical thinking skills before you attempt to read the thing :)

Score one for the millions of Muslim immigrants, and the gypsies. Hollande might be moderate, but his wife looks like high maintenance.

"Roosevelt fixed it all with regulations and what you call Socialist measures."

Measures which many economists now argue actually aggravated the economic problems at the time, and lengthened the depression.

France did not support war on terror, French fries changed to 'freedom fries,'

Now France turned into socialist, what 'French' stuff should the US change now?

correct yashmak

Europe rebounded much faster than the US did from the great depression.

Of course there must be laws and regulations on the market. But not to the point of forcing our assets to find "greener pastures" so to speak in another country.

but according to danaelle i lack critical thinking.

Hey dem, how does Mexico treat immigrants? I hear not too good.

Is it possible that people are ridiculously fearful of the word socialism and have no idea what it actually means? This is what happens when you get your news from an entertainment channel.

How do you think Hitler came to power in the 1930s in Germany? His rhetoric about poverty in depression-era Germany resonated with people tired of carting a "wheelbarrow full of cash to buy" a loaf of bread. He blamed the Jews and immigrants for the Depression. He whipped up nationalism with his fiery speeches. That's how you end up electing a Neo-Nazi in Greece and a far left Socialist in France.

Do_Not.....

Then you are foolish.

Why is it always far left and far right?

As soon as I read those terms in a comment I stop reading because I know the author is a mouthpiece for a cliched and superficial way of thinking.

Anyone who considers Obama a socialist and man of the far left is a perfect example.

Is it possible that people are ridiculously fearful of the word socialism and have no idea what it actually means? This is what happens when you get your news from an entertainment channel.

That would make sense if you had any real point...see, he just pointed out a fact. They elected a socialist (self admitted) in France. So how exactly did he misdefine the word? Please stop before you look even dumber.

Why is it always far left and far right?

Why is it that people associate national socialism (nazi) with far right? Fascism is a big govt ideology...not small government. If right means small government and markets, then how does big government and socialism mean far right?

Personally I think right and left don't exist. But hey, I don't view the world through the prism of statism either.

Conservatives have failed to solve the problems of people. Their priorities are messed up.

They acted as agents of big corporations, oil companies, Saudis and lobbyists.

Iraqi wars are one example. Saudis and co and oil companies became richer and we poorer.

Instead of controlling oil prices such that they don't bankrupt oil importing nations further, they have all ganged up with Saudis to choke Iranian oil supplies.

Conservatives like Republicans, Tories, this Sarkozy want Iran and Syrian interventions.

Are problems at home more important or Saudis problems more important?

Typical right wing nonsense.

Hollande is not a "FAR LEFT" socialist. He is pretty much middle of the road, but that looks like communist to the American ideology on the right, which is FAR RIGHT. He is just in the socialist party, which is as socialist as the republican party is actually republican or the deomcratic party is actually democratic.

@Ferrosynthesis

Saying "middle of the road socialist" is like saying "moderate extremist". He might be middle of the road for a socialist, but not in economics or ideology compared to the general population of the world. If he was, he wouldn't be a socialist of any type.

And if you think America's Right is FAR RIGHt, then what were they before Rossevelt broughti n the Progressive ideology, and before the 1960s brought over the neocons from the Democratic Party?

Becuase they're just Progressive RepubliBloods and Neoconservative DemoCrips...keep it real.

NEOConservatives have failed to solve the problems of people

FYP

Why is it that people associate national socialism (nazi) with far right? Fascism is a big govt ideology...not small government. If right means small government and markets, then how does big government and socialism mean far right?

Personally I think right and left don't exist. But hey, I don't view the world through the prism of statism either.

It's more like a circle where both meet at their extremes. I don't know where that puts libertarians though. On the outside of the circle, separate from everybody else?

It is unbelievable how under-educated the American population is on Socialism.

American Socialist

It is unbelievable how under-educated the American population is on Socialism.

Couldn't agree more.

Strange how everyone seemed to miss the message of my post. Does anyone remember the causes of the French Revolution? How about the national situation which led to the forming of the Magna Carta, or how about the reasons for the drafting of America's Declaration of Independence?

What I tried to point out is that the root cause of these are all in common with the drift toward Socialism BEFORE the Word "Socialism" was ever coined; the disparity between the richest and the middle class in these (and the current) world citizenry.

Am I a Socialist? No, but I do see what is going on in the world through unclouded eyes and am willing to call a Pot a Pot when that is its nature. I guess you could say I'm a realist; one who uses the Appellation "Socialism" as a colloquialism, and knowing it's meaning well.

Yes, do not mess, I lived through the Cold War and Kruschev too (and the incident at the UN also). We were taught the difference in the different forms of government though through comparison of principles, methods and current (at that time) conditions in a segment of the school week called "Civics". Shows you how different schools' curriculum were even back in the 50's.

Not so great for Americans, either. But, it could be worse. We could be Germany.

Bigpicture,

Not so great for Americans, either. But, it could be worse. We could be Germany.

I agree. The only saving grace we have in the US is that we aren't in the EU. I would be curious to see what the UK's reaction is. Might they pull out?

Wow!

Wow! Svenolafson. Are you in the wrong movie???? You obviously are an educated thinker, who asks a great question. I can't wati to see how all the red and blue wingnuts who populate these discussions will bark their answers to you. I can only hope tht you have woken someone up. The UK is, indeed, the most interesting wrinkle in this developent. Cheers!

The UK and Germany should pull out...but then again, they should never have gotten in to begin with.

We are Germany... watch what happens in the Fed when Europe starts to plunge... we'll be trying to bail them out and plunge with them....

Provided that the UK has maintained their Pound Sterling and a sense of sovereignty, I would say they have had more of an "association" with the EU as opposed to a "partnership." But I think you might start to see them pull away from that "association."

However I seriously doubt that they will outright abandon it due to trade necessity, and I certainly do not see them jumping in the wagon with us and our crumbling dollar. I believe their actions will be one of a padded foot dance as not to rock any nations boat.

no, fedup. unfortunately, we are NOT Germany, a rich, productive, capitalist country. we were. but, now, we are more like greece. the unbridled spending of both the red and the blue administrations of the past twenty years have seen to that, and our political "leaders" have developed az game whereby they and their cronies are enriched by our incessand wing-based bickering.

Bushes and Sarkozys bring debts, bankruptcies and dead bodies too!

I hate to throw a wrench into your comments about the EU, but Great Britain refused to convert to the Euro long ago. Yes, Great Britain is still buying and selling using their pound. Now, if you know anything about the EU, you'll know that it is the Euro that keeps them connected, and you'll understand that the countries like Germany are continuing to prop up other not so solvent and/or bankrupt European countries in order to keep the Euro from tanking. If not for the Euro, there would be no EU.

Bigpicture

You would call Germany socialist if you were there. 6 weeks vacation minimum and more paid holidays than anywhere else. Strong unions and severe work rules. Very difficult to fire someone. Virtually free education and socialized medicine. Those are the things that keep Germany strong. Oh, and I forgot....an educational systm that does indeed teach. And no theocracy.

@ Jonathan, Because Obama hasn't done the same thing right? Please, please learn to think for yourself instead of parroting ridiculous tag lines.

Well, Ferro, I do live in Germany (and Austria, the South Pacific and a few places in America). I am involved with funding businesses in each and all of those places and I stand by my description of Germany's economy. When Bush and Cheney were nationalizing everything in sight (and selling the soul of America to the Chinese), Germany was not. Germany is self-reliant, although it is helped in its handouts to less strong EU economies by smaller net contributors like Austria and Sweden. I never understood why Americans thought having no vacation was some sort of badge of strength, when the other competitor nations that do not enslave their workers to their desks and assembly lines 52 weeks a year and are cleaning our clock in economic competition. I also do not understand how it makes sense to criticize them for a high level of education and a functioning health care system.

Obamas, Romneys, Bushes and Sarkozys bring debts, bankruptcies and dead bodies too!

FYP again.

The left just can't admit that Germany's austerity plan actually works. Without Germany's involvement in Europe's debt woes several countries could kiss their arse goodby.

A country cannot spend it's way into austerity....it doesn't fly.

You would call Germany socialist if you were there. 6 weeks vacation minimum and more paid holidays than anywhere else. Strong unions and severe work rules. Very difficult to fire someone. Virtually free education and socialized medicine.

And did you notice WE fit the bill for their defense?

Oh, that's why they can afford such nonsense. We welfare them a military.

It's only possible if you have another nation welfaring you some of your budget or you have grand national resources (which run out eventually).

They have a welfare state on our backs. Our taxes subsidize it.

And as far as unions...who cares? I'm all for unions as long as they have no right to collectively bargain or shape safety to the point of ridiculousness. If they see harm or fraud, report it, and be spared firing for doing so, by all means. I'm all for that and voluntary organization. But when you raise wages above market rates you create unemployment for someone else, and that in itself is a harm and fraud. I can prove with data that the income share unions supposedly get from "the rich" actually comes out of a shared pool of income they split with the lower class. Yep, the lower class and middle class split the same income share. No matter how rich a country or how poor a country, the rich always maintain a steadily growing market share of income longterm. When unions raise wages (or minimum wage) above market rates, those poorer than themselves go without work. They essentially steal income share from other workers they supposedly help.

To prove this without thousands of data points (the easy way for those without economics degrees...or Keynesians with them) look at total real (accounted for inflation) compensation (wages + benefits) since the 1930s. Then compare that to union membership as a percentage of the economy over that same period. You'll see two trends...

Total real compensation increasing (with prodicitivity, as a side note...not with unions)...and unions as a percentage of the workforce decreasing at almost the same rate. Now that doesn't mean less unions equates to more wealth...what it means is, unions do not cause rising standards of living.

See, in the 1930s there were about 32% unionized workers in the USA...now it's below 12%. Most back then were private sector members of unions...today most are public sector union members extorting taxpayers, not corporate greed. Since government doesn't turen a profit, public unions have nothing (like a profit margain) to judge a "fair wage" by. That's why they get paid so much more than private sector people wit the same jobs. Example: Private school teachers versus public school teachers...and even as private teachers make far less, they get way better results from kids with less resources per child.

In the 1930s total real compensation was about 1/6 of what it is today. That means you make on average 6 times what some did in the 30s for the same time and amount of labor. The difference is productivity per worker hour because of cost saving and efficiency rasing technology (like hammers versus air powered nail guns).

What's clear is, unions do not increase standards of living at all. What's also clear is that technology does. And technology almost always comes about via accumulation of capital in private hands and proper allocation via re-investment of that capital in what they think is a good investement. This cannot be done as efficiently by groups with less a loss to bear individually, or by groups like governments with little or no understanding of how to properly allocate the capital with their limited expertise. In short, those who earn it tend to know better how to invest it to raise productivity or lower costs of producitvity. This makes workers richer (as I've explained), and also makes consumers richer (through lower prices).

The same trend occured with OSHA and unions with worker safety. It's caused by technology, not union rules or government regulation. The trend of worker fatalities matches the inverse of productivity. How is this logical? You can't mangle an arm when it's a robot arm now doing that job.

The myths of anti-market ideology are numerous and intuitive...but not deductively logical.

James...the French know whats best for their own country, not you...

So please STFU

:)

AmSoc: What in the world makes you think that the French -- alone in all the world -- have such special power as to know "whats[sic] best for their own country" in electing their political leaders? Do you suggest that the U.S. had such prescience in electing Dubya, for example?

Easy...its their country...its their decision.

You sound like a fascist....let me guess, they should have some apointed for them....right?

Sorry, AmSoc. A reach for the wrong label whenever someone challenges a statement of yours just doesnt cut it. Your time has expired.

No, I made a simple statement...

Its their country, its their decision.

Now a simple question...

If not theirs, than who's??

...actually, the European Union, they are in a agreed relationship, Sark and Merk had an agreement in principal for "German financial help" in return for "French austerity"...time will tell if Hollande (Dutch) will re-neg...if he does, well, the Germans retire at age 67 and the French at age 62, soon to be 60...you do the math...

gsh, you are exactly right. Nice of you to make your point, too, without raving like a lunatic, which we customarily see from both wings that populate these discussions.

gsh341: do you have a crystal ball? your comment sounds very familiar! do you twist things very much to fit your thinking?

Exactly what is your hidden message what is it your really trying to say?

Come out into the open with it just say what you want to say!

Lets don't beat around the Bush !!!

gsh341: do you have a crystal ball? your comment sounds very familiar! do you twist things very much to fit your thinking?

Exactly what is your hidden message what is it your really trying to say?

Come out into the open with it just say what you want to say!

Lets don't beat around the Bush !!!

Some don't need a picture drawn to understand a comparative comment.

What his comment suggests is that a President who favored smaller government and less government involvement in citizens lives, lower taxes and greatly reduced government spending was replaced by a President who favors larger government and more government involvement in citizens lives, higher taxes and greatly increased government spending. He believes the new President's ideology and policies will fail, but, rather than take responsibility for the failed ideology and policies, will blame his predecessor.

SocialCapitalist: Has his predecessors policies led FRANCE TO PROSPERITY? dont you think his evaluation is a little premature? He just won the election! He has not even been sworn in!

"WOW" crystal ball may have been putting it lightly! What if the new President leads the country to great heights of prosperity for all of France? would you accept that? we will have to wait to find out, try posting in a year or two about this when you have something concrete to go on!

We know in this country what happened under the previous administrions policies!

Have you ever heard of "Thermal Lag?"

Our instant society expects immediate results, and cannot accept responsibility!

There's the right way, the wrong way, and the American way which seems to tread a line of half right and half wrong.

Like Twain's "Jumping Frog of Calaveras County," Daniel Webster is filled with buckshot and most are too naive to know what's happening.

If you think about the entire analogy, then there are a whole lot of parallels that can be drawn between Twain's masterpiece and our U.S. political debacle.

Who's the strange that came to town with the buckshot in his pocket?

Take your pick, but whoever you assign that privilege, he's still leaving town with a pocket full of money.

A timeless masterpiece that will remain forever applicable to social commentary.

Thank you Sam!

We need more Twain's, and people intelligent enough to understand what they read.

GSH...

Oh...and I bet you know excatally what best for them, dont you???

...those who consult a crystal ball to predict the future usually find out that the reflecting orb was located on the bumper of an oncoming truck...

Vous etes fou! You read too many newspapers if you believe that the Right is extremist. the Right in the USA wants lower taxes and more freedom for all Americans by less government. That is what our Founding Fathers built this nation for. Not government hand outs and government red tape. I know that the French are primarily Communists. I have been to France fron Saarbrucken to Nantes. I ran into a lot of Communists in Paris and hated every one of them. They are lazy, good-for-nothing idiots that only want the power to control. Do us all a favor. Go back to France and stay there! You will be much happier with your Communist friends than you would be here in the greatest nation on God's green earth!<<VITEMENT!>>

It's pretty sad that the right want people to work for what they get. Have a little pride. Not just accept handouts like the European country. Thinking like yours is why the US will also fail unless spending comes under control. The democrats have made many people lazy, no pride, and dependent on the government. Some day, the democrats will have to take away, what they have given.

"The right in the usa, is a extremist party that does nothing for the well being of the american citizen."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to knowledge of all things France, but your dual citizenship should be revoked due to your ignorance of all things United States.

The right in the U.S. is extremist?

World War I (The US could've stayed out of it, none of our business)

World War II (Leftist policies led to the rise of Hitler, holocaust ignored for YEARS)

Korean War (None of our business, stalemate)

Vietnam War (None of our business, defeat)

Bosnia (None of our business)

Somalia (None of our business, defeat)

USS Cole, Khobar, WTC (first bombing) tower attacks (no response, led to 9/11)

All under the watch of your coveted left...meanwhile, Reagan was attacked for being a right wing hawk when in reality, we had 8 years of relative peace

By the way Poodelfan, Nazi Germany learned it's propaganda/policy tactics from President Woodrow Wilson (D) and his administration. In the blurred world of revisionist history and compliant media outlets, the gray area of Fascism has always been pegged as "right wing"....but in the end, whether Fascism is left or right, it has always been a by-product of the left. Sorry.

poodlefan007:

You realize that you can not legally hold dual citizenship if your are an USA citizen? Plus, most of all the positive national programs in the USA was a product of the Republican Party.

the Right in the USA wants lower taxes and more freedom for all Americans by less government

The right wants lower taxes for the rich and more government intrusion in people's personal lives.

most of all the positive national programs in the USA was a product of the Republican Party.

Name one. Most positive national programs were instated by FDR and LBJ.

but can you wait 4 years? In our present situation, austerity is the only way to go. We have to quit spending and get our houses in order. Pres. Holland will only make matters worse. And you are wrong, our right only wants what is fair for everyone. The poor must work along with the rich, no matter what type of job it is. Handouts should be a thing of the past not present.

Modern Wars under Democrat Presidents -

WWI - 116,516 Americans dead

WWII - 405,399 Americans dead

Korean War - 36,516 Americans dead

Bay of Pigs Invasion - 4 Americans dead

Dominican Republic - 44 Americans dead

Vietnam War - 58,209 Americans dead

Somalia - 43 Americans dead

Haiti - 1 American dead

Bosnia - 3 Americans dead

Total: 616,735 Americans dead

Modern Wars under Republican Presidents:

El Salvador - 37 Americans Dead

Invasion of Grenada - 19 Americans Dead

Invasion of Panama - 40 Americans Dead

Gulf War I - 258

Afghanistan - 1,803 Americans dead

Gulf War II - 4,477

Total: 6,634

616,735 American Servicemen killed during Democrat presidencies versus 6,634 American Servicemen killed during Republican presidencies. I think it's safe to say that the "peaceful" liberal's have the market cornered when it comes to sending Americans off to needlessly die in the horrors of war.

Should I look up US civilian deaths caused by other Countries/groups in the past 100 years and who was President at the time? or do you want me to stop now....

....because I can assure you that more American Civilians perished at the hands of other Countries and terrorist groups (domestic and foreign), under the "peaceful" liberals who "care" about us than those "evil" "right wing" "fascists" who are so cold hearted and are nothing but "war mongers".

Sorry to destroy your morning with actual facts.

Hey Sam I can only guess you're speaking of the great social security and medicare programs that have one hundred trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities, oh and not to forget LBJ's great society and war on poverty that left minority neighborhoods in more poverty and crime and enslaved to the Dem party by way of welfare and government handouts, are those the one's?????

Yeah they're awesome man, now can you pass the doobie.....

Matt.....LMAO! Quit providing those "damaging" facts for the liberal mentality! Sam Adams above, needs to read a book...."Broke", which exposes FDR's destruction of this country's fundamental greatness, and another liberal "racist"....LBJ, who provided the "crack" which has destroyed many capable Americans from working due to his welfare program!

From Quinn: "Liberalism......creates the exact opposite of it's stated intent!"

You pretty much nailed it Poodlefan. The American right has become extremist and dedicated fully to Corporatism.

Because, the left in the usa is very moderate and more like the right in france

That says something horrible about the Right in France, not something good about the Left here.

Moderates = Pragmatists = No Principles = Ideology = No Philosophy

I'd rather have a Party (or none, thank you very much) that NEVER compromises on principle but finds coalitions issue-to-issue across Party lines (like some of the Right are anti-drug war, and so are some of the Left...for very different reasons). I want people with philosophy, not ideology; with principles not pragmatics; with firm ethics and logic, not moderation.

The American right has become extremist and dedicated fully to Corporatism

And the Left's donations are coming from the same place. They both practice Keynesianism, aka Third Way economics, aka mixed economics, aka fascist economics.

Didn't notice they both bailed out the rich bankers and corporates, aye?

Wake up, wingnut.

PS. The Right in America has become nothing but more Left since Theodore Roosevelt...so if they became worse, it's because of the Progressive movement's influence. Where do you think "police the world" and "make the world safe for democracy" came from? How about all the anti-immigrant talk?

Read a history book, will ya?

sam adams,

The right wants lower taxes for the rich and more government intrusion in people's personal lives.

I'm assuming your moniker refers to the beer. Very apropos. We, the right, want to lower taxes for everyone that pays them. Problem with the left is they want to lower the taxes for everyone that doesn't pay taxes which results in a handout of other people's money. "Earned Income Tax Credit". A 4 word 6 syllable term used to dress up a turd and disguise the fact that the government is spreading the wealth around. Guess what? You can camouflage the turd but it still doesn't get rid of the smell. Hey! I used a couple French words! I highlighted them so you all can enjoy!

Poodlefan007...

"The right in the usa, is a extremist party that does nothing for the well being of the american citizen."

You are %100 spot on.

Homer, You are 0-for-2. and I say that notwithstanding that, until Dubya and Cheney (confirmed by people like Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Santorum and a whole host of other brainless, dangerous would-be candidates), my family and I were Republicans for many generations. But that which-party-is-worse game has become a useless distraction for me and all of us. So, it is not worth belaboring. However, you are simply wrong, wrong, wrong about your proclamation that one cannot hold dual citizenships if one of them is American. Nice try at blowing smoke, though!

What the hell does this article HAVE TO DO WITH THE TEA PARTY?

JP, you need to put the dope pipe down. You are delusional.

@J.P. "Tea Party: belligerent, violence worshipping,....etc"

I think you are thinking of your peers.

@ JP, because this President has done so much to counteract those policies right???? Where is the rolling eyes icon when you need it?

When are people like you going to understand it isn't about Democrats or Republicans, because for the great majority they are the same thing. This is about Individual Liberty vs Statism, plain and simple. Both parties are responsible for the Corporatist/Crony-Capitalist economy we have, both are responsible for the continued Military Industrial Complex support through continued War Mongering, both provide to the 1% through actions and policies derived from the Federal Reserve that they whole heartedly approve of, and all want control of your personal life.

Please use your head and stop parroting asinine talking points from either side. And please don't take this as an attempted slam just some information to start talking about the true nature of the problems we are and have been facing.

Ranman87 put his caplock on to post this:

What the hell does this article HAVE TO DO WITH THE TEA PARTY?

Ranman87,

If you were looking for a Tea Party article you could have used Google.
Don't expect EVERY article to be about what you want.

I just did a quick Google and came up with 243,000,000 results for 'Tea Party' (with or without CAPS),
that should keep you content for quite a while.

Have a nice day.

It might interest respondents to know (except De Tocqueville, I really don't know what he is going on about)
that when I posted a reference to the Tea Party I was the 6th person to comment, now there are 350+

1) "Is the French president-elect going to follow the way obama does business? Standby!!! Wait and see."

2) "The French are going Socialist, the Greeks elected a Neo-Nazi? Could it be that "civilization" is in retrograde? Or possibly this is an effort to avoid returning to the Feudal Systems of the Middle-Ages with Large Lords and Serfs."

3) "You don't have to be an admirer of Sarkozy to know that the election of a Socialist, with plans for more debt, is a disaster for France."

4) "The French will regret this later, but will blame Sarkozy for Hollande's failure to accomplish anything positive and the continued decline of the French economy.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?"

5) "I live in France"

Nope, none of the 5 stated that they were Tea Party'ers. But the comments are reminiscent. Except of course #5, but maybe De Tocqueville could ask her, they share something in common.

Trickle on economics has only been American economic gospel for 30 years. I am sure it will kick in any second now and there will be prosperity for everyone.

@not a troll So, how much of your $30,000+ tax bill burden do you actually pay? Some rich dude is paying for the balance of yours, mine Rev's and probably about 30 other households.

You better not vote for Obama then his health care debacle gets rid of medicare for millions.

Trickle down economics is still a Keynesian Economic model, look at all the government spending that it needed to start, as well as massive deficit and national debt building. Those are Keynesian (Hamilton) ideals, not free market (Austrian Economics) ideals.

Oh yeah that would be so great, we could sink to the depths of Cuba and Venezuela....

Great thinkin Shrub

I argee completely with your conclusion, Matt. However, the guy does have a point. Bush/Cheney were really socialists, in that they transferred all wealth away from the real employers of capital to their cronies, and they nationalized many industries -- just like America is supposed NOT to do. Obama has had a tendency to follow suit, in many cases with the same agents employed by Bush/Cheney. Of course, the election in France hs little to do with this, except as a backlash for Sarkozy's cozy relationship to America during these days of errant policy and to Angela Merkel. It is, indeed, a new day in Europe, and the shifted pieces will be very interesting for America to watch (and take advantage of, if we are smart enough.)

That is highest of insults to anyone with true democracy on their minds.

True democracy is an insult to anyone with a mind.

You want mob rule in a sportscoat? You want to poll a lynch mob and then wonder why they keep voting for lynching? You want to organize an entire society by an informal logical fallacy, argumentum ad populum?

It takes a 12 year old to figure out why democracy fails, and the republic does too, not too long after...even with its delays built in to slow the erosion caused by popular rule.

Democracy is a minority exploiting disgusting event. I'd rather have a Mad Max world run by biker gangs than one where majorities could vote the minority dead at the drop of a hat. At least with bikers there is a code of conduct (kind of like the mafia who runs everything now - the state - we have some things like judiciary and delegations that aren't up to popular vote directly).

I guess Obama is an American socialist. Of course American socialism is only for corporate America, the banksters, and the wealthy. It allows transfer of money from the middle class to support these groups.

Rev,

Those public employees get the lions share of the booty in the form of benefits and golden retirement programs. Did you ever wonder why? Because 90% vote democrat and work hand in hand to help the democrat pinatas get elected. Check it out..its the real problem and France is 2X as bad. Wait 3 years for the riots by the lefties in France to go bonkers when real austerity sets in. The Euro Union will disintegrate (a good thing) but turmoil up to including open warfare may occur. Then the Germans (those good old Germans) react by becoming the de facto rulers of western Europe...stay tuned.

Rev, drink some more class-envy BS koolaid... corporations provide jobs... not handouts, like your coveted Commissar Obomavich... corporations are a partnership between investors and workers to provide goods and services... nobody forces you to work for a company, it's voluntary... yes, sometimes the companies do take advantage... and at other times so do the workers... that struggle will never end... companies that take advantage lose their best workers... companies that are forced to pay more than the work done by workers is worth go out of business... it's self-limiting... the tax code we have is the result of politicians trying to force certain behaviors by taxing the crap out of business, and then giving tax credits to those who do what they want... (see GE pays no taxes)

Pass the koolaid...

Derp....

You're a f*cking idiot.

The Euro is failing because capitalist pig investors are shorting it.

...and you have evidence of this...the EU is actually trading in "range" and has for a long time...

Ummmmmm, mark my words the Euro will not last to the end of this decade period, they are printing it into oblivion to pay for all the social programs in Eurpoe that no one can afford. Now stop believeing everything you read in the Lib press.

American Socialist you have absoloutly no idea what you're talking about which doesn't surprise me based on the name you chose for yourself.

there are plenty of socialist countries. i dont live in one. YOU are welcome to leave.

Well, no. No, I won't leave. I'll continue to work to educate the ignorant and right the ship in the good ole USA.

good luck educating rightisright. you have your work cut out for you.

@janierock:

Being that you are far better educated than many here, why don't you share your knowledge and explain 'Socislism' to all who don't have your grasp of things?

@janierock

Maybe you should read a dictionary

is this truly what you want?

Definition of SOCIALISM

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

See socialism defined for English-language learners »

See socialism defined for kids »

Umm...he describes himself, as does the article, as a socialist. 'nuff said.

rightisright-5861504...

Sorry, we are not going anywhere, we will fight the good fight...and win.

:)

randy-2539467...

No private property??....are you that stupid??

@American Socialist

"No private property??....Are you that stupid??"

Did you know that my definition was a cut and paste from Webster's Dictionary. I guess Webster is not as knowledgable as you. How stupid are you? You don't even know the definition of what you are promoting. Here is a suggestion for you, move to a socialist country and be happy.

"Did you know that my definition was a cut and paste from Webster's Dictionary"

Naw....really...

So every socialist country in the entire world is exactly the same?? You should try some actual "thinking" instead of blindly cutting and pasting.

That's an accurate description of socialism, that definition. Luckily, it has nothing to do with what our President believes. Our President is a MODERATE. MODERATES do not believe in the centralization of industry by the government. They don't believe that workers should be paid on a merit system.

I am educated and I do know the definition of socialism. What our President stands for is not even close.

Vito: You are right! everyone should pay less taxes! the way to do that is for everyone to pay some cash money on the deficit on a sliding scale If one hundred million were to pay twenty thousand dollars cash it would raise two trillion dollars, that would pay the deficit off, and fund infrastructure, that would save four trillion dollars in interest money that the country would not have to pay over ten years, and the infrastructure would create a million jobs this would bring in more tax money, it would benefit the whole country, and they could leave the tax cuts in place for a year or two while the reform the tax system! the national debt would come down much faster this would be good for all business!

As a GREAT President once stated......."We DO NOT have a revenue problem in this country, we have a SPENDING problem!" Liberal "lackies" can't resist parroting the tax the rich mantra, because of insidious jealously, envy, and the desire to live like successful folks because they have the fundamental problem that plagues many in America today.......they want something for nothing! The entitlement mentality is growing in America. People get rich in this country through hard work, sacrifice, and great ideas. Few inherit their wealth. Get over yourselves....... look at yourselves in the mirror and see where the fundamental problem lies!

Garyl : The spending problem this country has was in the form of two unfunded wars, and a unfunded prescription program while giving tax breaks to the wealthy, at the same time then borrowing two hundred million dollars per day to try and keep from going into a recession, as the economy continued to spiral downward, while they fought any and every effort to raise any taxes, even though the tax breaks were not creating jobs! until Obama took office, as the country was plunging off the economic cliff as they immediately began to blame him for the sad situation the country was in, as they filibustered any and everything to make this President a one term President, you need to look in the mirror to see where the fundamental problem lies! the two hundred million that was borrowed was to keep people working so they could buy Chinese products and fundamentally that benefited the businessmen who was and are doing business in China! GaryL where ARE THE JOBS?

If I have to read one more time about "2 unfunded wars and an unfunded prescription program" I will have to barf. If you want to continue to play that card, please explain to me why the Democratic Congress didn't fund those things? If it was such a priority for the Dems, why did they not actually DO something to fix the problem as they saw it? What IS it with the Dems, anyway? They try to take absolutely NO responsibility for ANYTHING that happened under Bush, even though they held Congress for the last 2 years of his term. And now they take no responsibility for anything, merely repeating over and over and over that it was "Bush's Fault". When do the Dems step up and actually DO anything?

The Dems can't stop bad policies or legislation while in the minority. The Dems can't pass good policy or legislation while holding the majority. Why do you people continue to vote for these ineffective politicians??????

Raising extortion doesn't balance the budget...please do the math on the budget deficit and the highest possible tax raises. Even if you taxed the top 10% for 100% of profits/earnings, you still wouldn't balance the budget (or even close). But you would be an immoral person who advocated more extortion on your neighbors.

Let me explain market failure. Market failure is when individuals pursue rational things, but where these things cause collectively irrational results.

I just described the state, it's deficits, and debt.

It's rational for individuals to pursue more freebies from the government and to have other people pay for them (especially since the government can kidnap (imprison) people who don't wish to be extorted)...but the collective irrational result is everyone getting freebies so politicians can get re-elected (afterall, they're giving away other people's money anyways, not theirs), but no one paying for it. Hence, national budget deficits and national debt.

National debt is a symptom of market failure in government.

So, your solution is too extort people more? Well other than being economically ignorant, that's immoral.

What's my solution? The logical one. Cut spending dramtically, and teach people they can't expect free stuff from government. The government isn't Santa Claus. It isn't there to save you or other countries. It's simply there (in theory) to protect us from foreign invasion and domestic violent people. Some would add protect private property...but I think since they tax private property they destroy property rights immediately (by making you a renter on your own land, essentially). I also think they do a crap job of defending us from aggression since they aggress (tax) against us immediately to fund this. So the whole thing is illogical.

Memes of the state:

1. We protect property rights by destroying property rights.

2. We save you from aggression by aggressing against you.

Seems to me the state is illogical on its own premises. It also seems to me, therefore, that increasing its ability to extrort your neighbors is not the answer to too much statism.

Good luck waking up, fellow Matrix dweller.

Dale, I don't suppose that the unfunded Trillion$ in SS, Medicare, Medicaid and numerous other social programs has anything to do with it huh?

MikeHathaway: The Dem's did do something about it they put it in the budget! Why do you think we have a deficit!?

dale...but we haven't had a budget in years...in violation of the Constittution. Literally, they have illegally not passed a budget in years.

Vito-986355....

"Europe is all but done!"

No....you're "me me me, money money money" way of thinking is all but done.

Hey Dale, can you please tell me WHICH budget it was put into? I can't seem to remember ANY budget being passed since PresiDEBT Obama was sworn in!

And we have massive deficits simply because the feds spend about 40% MORE than they take in.

you mean if romney and the gop gets in were doomed, did you even bother to read the atricle, sarkosy did the old trickle down thing gave huge tax cuts to the top and unemployment went way up and so did there debt-if romney gets in with a gop congress he will do the same and totally ruin the usa

i did read it n a t. and researched it as well. the unemployment went up like most of europe. they just went into recession again, and without fiscal responsibility, they are headed for collapse. they cant print fake money like the fed does. the dollar is being dropped as currency because it cant be trusted. the house of cards will not last much longer. stop fooling yourself.

do your own research, not the little sentences spoonfed by this fake media.

French military rifle on Ebay " droped once never fired.

Socialism dose nothing to bring "lower class" up. It dose however bring everyone but the politians down to lower class. They do not spread the wealth they consume it DB

fosto,

The French were and many still remain conservative and very much in favor of defending the values that made Europe the pre-eminent force in politics, invention, art, etc. Until the US took the lead from Europe in mid 20th century the Europeans were the tops in most every area. Also i think we should remember that France has been our staunch ally pretty much since the American Revolution right up to today except for the Maximillian thing in Mexico. I think we should always remember their sacrifices. The fact the socialists are more interested in themselves and in their sureal life of their nirvana should not mar our respect for France.

Well, if the election prompts such a headline, then so be it. However, if written like that, that would indicate one stupid headline-writer.

And a change in the definition of socialism. And the President would need to have a switched political parties and moved ideologically from the middle to the far left. We'd have to suspend a lot of reality in order for this to happen.

That's right, j-rock. however, there ARE a lot of stupid headline (and content) writers out there, and that's really all it would take.

I'm not trying to be mean when I say this "but" you right wing commenter's on here today seem to be "well" almost delusional in your thinking, and posting almost to the point that you can not think! in that you seem to try to twist anything and everything to try to discredit the President! the trouble is its mostly just rants not educated reasons like you want your team to win weather it is right or wrong! it is a mindless way to think you need to chill out and let the events happen and listen to both sides be for you give your undying loyalty to anyone no matter whose side it is!

"OH" And by the way this article is about the election in France!!!

I hope you can find some company, Dale. Lots of it. But, your voice of reason cannot be heard amidst the din of the majority of commenters who are shouting for either the blues or the reds and cannot be convinced to be objective. Besides, when you're always right, why would you need to be educated?

Bigpicture ; True but we still have to try! The sad thing is the country is falling apart while banks, corporations, wealthy individuals, billionaires, and millionaires sit on top of mountains of cash, and they could pay a little cash, and eliminate the problem, this debt could be cut in half in the next two years, and the cash that would be paid would be replaced so fast that we would not hardly notice it was gone in many cases, the cash would be replaced with more cash than would be paid out!

If there is aother crisis like 911 I wonder if they will want the working man to help! "oh yea" "you bet" we would all start chanting United we stand!

Like apple sitting on 50 billion dollars in cash, and almost as much in liquid assets, they could pay five or ten billion dollars cash on the deficit, and the tax write off would benefit them much more than the cash! and there are hundreds more like them many wealthy individuals are worth five hundred thousand dollars and more, they could pay twenty thousand and write it off, it is sad to see how greed could destroy the country from within needlessly, while they sit on top of their mountains of cash and watch the country be torn apart, while claiming they love the country and would do anything to help! Lord have mercy on the working man!

Romney = Bush = Obama = fascists

Stop cheering for more of the same and fascism, please.

Wow Dale, why the veil... just come out and say it... "confiscate all wealth and give it to deadbeats".... never mind that it would be eating the seed corn... (sorry if you don't get the euphemism)... that's really the Socialist end-game... no private property and Liberal politicians distributing things "fairly" (ie to their supporters)

BigPicture / Dale.....You both seem to think that the "rich" paying a little more will eliminate the problems of the USA are truly delusional...One small question??? Just where do you think the REAL money is in America.. Any answer other than the middle class would be wrong. It has already been proven that if you taxed the top 10% in this country at 100% it would not eliminate the problem... As there are about 240 million workers is america if you increased their tax rate by 5 -10 % you would generate Trillions in tax revenues and that would eliminate the problem. Taxing the rich sounds good but it is only a prelude to the big show....Taxing you

Bull, Where in the world did you get the idea that that is my view??? I agreed with Dale that we need more ( a lot more) education and civilized discourse, but you seem to have taken that and run with it to the next county. if you are going to make a comment, I suggest you read a little more carefully, first.

well said nothing new. just remember the pollsters never call people that are working, or seniors.

like reagan said, its not that democrats dont know anything, its what they know is wrong.

Since that is the case, I am going to go with the flow and get as many freebees as I can. When those who are so passionate about monetary " fairness " realize that there is no money left, I will be long dead and buried. It will be left to those "passionate" folks to pay for things.

Thanks for admitting to being part of the problem and an enslaver of future generations because you're selfish.

Future generations' labor will pay for your "freebies", as they aren't free, you tyrant.

So far all you have done is denigrate others. Still waiting for you to share your wisdom. Please tell us what the definition of 'socialism' truly is.

xbonz, dont expect anything from mr pie in the sky. over the weekend i had a liberal tell me he hated "teabaggers". when i asked him to explain it, because i didnt know what it was he said " a group funded and started by fox news and koch brothers to destroy our govt and get rid of the health care law".

you cant fight stupidity

RightisRight: The Right can not win by being stupid either!

Thank you JanieRock: Really folks, what is wealth for? As far as I can tell, for the Right, wealth is for amassing in ever more meaningless numbers (how many houses, cars, pair of Gucci's does one need {or deserve}?). This works only when there are infinite resources to be exploited, and folks, we are well and truly past "the Golden Age" when robber barons could have a go at exploiting labor and resources without restraint, becoming the "firstest with the mostest." Now, we live in a world vastly more full of people, all of whom are clamoring for --at the very least--safety, health, food, water, air, education, the basics. It seems to me now, that only theft in some form or another garners great wealth. Government should be the articulation of a social philosophy that works to the end of helping everyone get what they need to thrive, and one that curbs the impulse to shady fiscal indecencies. It should be an articulation of generosity and community, not selfishness and greed. People, how can you not be ashamed to have so much, when someone, somewhere is dying, dying of hunger, or is being abused or exploited? Go ahead now, call me a bleeding heart liberal..., or even a (dread word) Socialist. Even in pre-school, we try to teach our babies to share and play well with others, but it seems some never get that particular message

@Madeline-4489650:

I see, so people who work hard, or invest wisely, or do whatever it is they do to earn money, should just turn it over to those unwilling to do the same. You are not a bleeding heart liberal, you are just a blind fool. No offense intended.

Socialism is the centralization of resources. Industry is run either by the government or a collective of employees. Pay is based on a merit system.

Do you your homework, people. Your President is a moderate, not a socialist. Not EVEN CLOSE to a socialist. A socialist would stand up to the Tea Party takeover of the formerly rational Republicans instead of rolling over and playing dead.

@janierock:

You mean kind of like the government take over of GM, AIG? How about the push to control the foods we eat, the amount of water and power we use. Taking the money from the wealthy and redistributing said funds to those who will not work for their pay? Having a plan in place where all people will be forced by the government to buy health insurance or have it jammed down their throats by a health care czar. The same czar who will determine what care you will or will not receive. Perhaps you refer to a government that prohibits private oil companies from expanding their operations so the "green companies" backed by the same government can steal taxpayer money then go belly up? Is this what you mean by socialism?

Xbonz, I really would like an answer: What is government for? Are we our brother's keeper or not? Are you comfortable with extreme affluence (earned or not) when others can barely survive? Are you comfortable with some folks amassing wealth through unethical, unscrupulous or illegal means? Should those people be curtailed? How, if not through government? What is the common weal? Is there a common weal? Every time I ask these questions, I am called a name. However, no offense taken. I suspect that a heart-felt, honest answer is incongruent with rightist political sentiments.

Government GAVE money to private enterprise. They did not take over (the NOW THRIVING) car industry. That's a lie. The push to control how much power we use is to ensure THERE'S A PLANET for the super millionaires to bequeath to their super rich offspring.

Nobody takes money from the rich to redistribute. The government COLLECTS TAXES and has a safety net in place to make sure the very poor, for whatever reason, are not left entirely homeless and without food. That takes resources. Not as many as a good old fashioned war, though. I'd say you should worry less on how much we spend to feed Americans and worry about how much we spend on killing them. Maybe we'd be able to afford more corporate welfare if we spent less on tanks.

THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS or government run health care. People will need to buy insurance, just like they buy car insurance, to protect others from the gigantic costs associated with the uninsured. There is nothing but a mandate to stay covered so people can stop losing their houses over lack of care. Stop spreading mistruths about what's in the health care laws. So many people are thankful that they can now be insured after years with a preexisting condition. This is a fine day for lots of struggling, chronically ill people.

Not a single bit of this falls under the definition I gave you, very clearly, of socialism.

That was GEREEEEAT mudrake! didnt even realize that the new prez was doing that! lolololololo on france!!! lololololololololol. voting themselves to be destroyed! im aghast!!!

How did Stelleheidi's spam get deleted and undeleted? It should stay deleted, right?