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AFP - Getty Images
Debris from the crashed Sukhoi Superjet-100 is seen on the slope of Salak Mountain in Indonesia on Thursday.
Updated at 4:10 a.m. ET: Indonesian rescuers said Thursday that they had discovered bodies near the wreckage of a Russian-made airliner that disappeared from radar south of the capital Jakarta.
The crew of a helicopter searching for the jet had earlier spotted debris on the edge of a cliff in a mountainous area at 5,500 feet, a senior rescue official said.
The Sukhoi Superjet-100, carrying up to 50 people, lost contact with air traffic controllers during a demonstration flight Wednesday, officials said.
The Indonesian military said the plane "fell" from the sky, Reuters reported.
"The airplane crashed at the edge of Salak mountain," President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono told a news conference. "An investigation must be done immediately and thoroughly."
Search and rescue teams reached the rugged site on Thursday afternoon local time and saw several bodies, The Associated Press reported. Spokesman Gagah Prakoso said the bodies would be placed in nets and lifted by ropes to hovering helicopters.
Adek Berry / AFP - Getty Images
Indonesian soldiers along with members of a search and rescue team try to reach the site of the wreckage.
A photo taken from the rescue helicopter that found the debris appeared to show that the plane flew into an almost vertical wall of rock on an inaccessible part of the mountain.
Small pieces of white debris could be seen scattered down an exposed stretch of cliff surrounded by forest. Rescue officials said earlier that the walk to the site would take at least six hours.
'Completely ready to fly'
The aircraft was carrying Indonesian businessmen, Russian Embassy officials and journalists. Dimitry Solodov from the embassy said there were eight Russians on board, including pilots and technicians.
Those on board included eight crew and 42 guests, according to figures from the Russian Embassy.
The flight took off from Jakarta's Halim Perdanakusuma Airport at about 2 p.m. local time (3 a.m. ET) and disappeared from radar near the 7,200-foot Mount Salak in West Java, national search agency spokesman Gagah Prakoso told The Associated Press. It had been scheduled to return 50 minutes later.
AFP - Getty Images
A handout photo provided by Sergey Dolya shows Russian Sukhoi Superjet 100 taking off for a demonstration flight in Jakarta's Halim Perdanakusuma airport, on May 9.
Citing an official, Reuters reported that radio contact was lost with the plane after it descended from 10,000 feet to 6,000 feet.
"I saw a big plane passing just over my house," said Juanda, a villager who lives near Mount Salak told local station TVOne. "It was veering a bit to one side, the engine roaring. It seemed to be heading toward Salak, but I didn't hear an explosion or anything."
Olga Kayukova, a spokeswoman for Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, told Reuters the Sukhoi Superjet-100 was making a second flight as part of the demonstration program.
"The first flight was carried out in a normal mode ... The pre-flight preparations were carried out in full and the plane was completely ready to fly," she said. "According to information from Indonesia, the contact with the plane was broken after 20 minutes from the take-off ... search works are under way."
An Indonesian charter airline Sky Aviation posted on its Facebook account what it said was a picture of a Sukhoi Superjet-100 at the airport.
Russia Today reported that Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev ordered a special commission to investigate the incident. Relatives of passengers that had gathered at the airport began crying when news of the wreckage was announced, according to the Russia Today story.
Mast Irham / EPA
Relatives of passengers on the missing Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft react as they check the list of the passangers at Halim Perdana Kusuma Airport in Jakarta, Indonesia, May 9.
With a capacity of up to 103 passengers, the Sukhoi's Superjet-100 was developed in partnership with Boeing and Italy's Finmeccanica. The plane is the first completely new airliner designed by Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The missing plane was on the fourth stop of a six-nation "Welcome Asia!" roadshow after having already been to Myanmar, Pakistan and Kazakhstan.
It was supposed to head next to Laos and Vietnam. Russia has hoped that the short- to mid-range jet, which made its maiden run in 2008, will help it break into international markets dominated by Boeing and Airbus.
Sukhoi, which has orders for 170 planes, plans to produce up to 1,000 Superjets, primarily for foreign markets.
Msnbc.com staff, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
I feel badly for those families, and hope and pray for them to find comfort. As for the jet? I guess it's "No Sale".
The airplane just "fell from the sky", yeah...rrrrrrrrright.
One minute we're flying along, in a straight path, mind you....the next......not so much straight path...more like a downward trajectory....Oopskie.....shouldn't have been texting with that glass of champange in the other hand.
Condolences to the Indonesians,Russians,French,Italian,American families on board SSJ100. The jet was airborne 20 minutes on the demonstration flight- then asked for permission to descend from 3000 m to 1800 m and then went off the radar. The plane SSJ10-(The United Aircraft Corp) was devoped in cooperation with Boeing,Snescna,Thales,Messr Dowry,Liebherr Aero Space and Honeywell. Certified by ESNA in Feb, Cost of airplane 37 mill.euros- capacity 100- flight range 4500 km. Orders for SSJ100-Mexico,Indonesia,Laos; flying in Armenia(Armavia).
No, it flew through the sky - it fell down the face of the mountain. I guess the consolation is nobody knew a thing.
Putin said earlier to these Russian Embassy officials not to oppose him—I guess he wanted to drive home the meaning of opposition..
Oddly enough airplanes have a tendency to do that when they lose control or engines. You're not smelling conspiracy I hope...
Wounder if anyone on board was yelling " GOD IS GREAT " ????
Its just like 9/11, O WAIT no its not cuz they didnt find any bodies or debris in the wreaks during 9/11 because of claims that it all burned up, but they found bodies and debris here but no not on US soil, im sorry the USA is a big joke im not proud to be and american cuz our government has turned our country into what hitler wanted to to 70 years ago and all ruling 1 power 1 world order government, the USA what a wonderful place, NOT!!!!!! were fed lies and brain washed from little on up so the majority of us dont know any better until we stop and think
Alex, you can take your tinfoil hat and leave whenever you want...
Alex, since you're not proud to be an American, why don't you move. We don't want you here.
Alex, if you look at the real information, aka, formal report from real investigators and not anti-government flyers.. you will find ALL the photos and evidence from the Pentagon flight including plane wreckage, body parts and explanations of the building damage. There first hand accounts from regular people on the scene as well. One problem with the missile theory conspirators forget, missiles are not quiet, THEY ARE much LOUDER THAN AIRCRAFT,they are not invisible ieth
Alex, I won't talk much about this tragic incident. It's not a good experience especially to those who had relatives on that flight. It's a devastating, traumatic experience.
Brainwashed? Alex is in Wonderland. See where you are and think about your attitude. It plays an important role in whatever you do.
I am an immigrant. I came to the United States because this country is a symbol of hope, opportunity, liberty, justice, and respect for the individual. I know people would call this nonesense. But I have lived long enough and have seen coups, war, injustice, corruption, hunger, fear, lawlessness, had first hand accounts with Communism, fundamentalist Islamic rebels, and hopelessness where I came from. It feels like you're always living on the edge. I came with 2 suitcases and a bit of hope in me but I got to where I wanted to go (and still going) because people looked at my value. Sure it took a lot of hard work but here hard work pays off if you keep at it. This country is no. 1 destination for immigrants from the past until now. There were 39 million in 1 year.
To you Americans, love your country. It's one of its kind. It may not be perfect but the whole world looks at you as an example. What you do here really affects the world greatly whether it concerns morals, politics, economics, etc. I owe it a lot, doing my best to give back, and defend it even at my age. God bless America!
I sincerely hope those on board did not know what was about to happen. How terrifying. As for Alex - I lived in Maryland and worked near BWI airport during the 9/11 attacks. My neighbor worked for a construction company that was working on a new office complex near the Pentagon. He was out in the parking lot area when the plane passed overhead that eventually crashed into the Pentagon. It was not a missle - it was an airplane and it clipped the tops of trees as it passed over my neighbors head.
K Truant, don't waste your time. You cannot reason insane people like Krenz. If their conspiracy theories were true, they would all be forcefully parked at Area 51 waiting to be raptured by aliens. Still, the fact that this is not the case will not convince them.
"...the plane flew into an almost vertical wall of rock..."..."bodies would be placed in nets and lifted by ropes to hovering helicopters."
More likely "...place into buckets and lifted..."
Reminds me of the Turkish Airlines Flight 981...From the Wiki:
"... slammed into the forest at a speed of about 430 knots (497 miles per hour, or 796 km/h) in a slight left turn. The speed of the impact caused the airliner to disintegrate."
My sincere condolences to the families who lost loved ones.
I must however correct the MSNBC article (imagine that) which stated:
Boeing and Finmeccanica did not make this plane but that would not make sense given the last part of the article which states that this new plane & engine were to break up the dominance of Boeing and Airbus, the engines for this fatal flight were made by the French company Snegma (part of Safran).
Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18004097
You can find the type if engines used (2 PowerJet SaM146) here:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120509-0
When you look up the SaM146 - you will be directed to the NEW engine from the French Company, Snegma
Link: http://www.snecma.com/-sam146-.html?lang=en
Snegma did partner with NPO Saturn of Russia for this aircraft and it received a safety certificate from the European Aviation Safety Agency ( in the US it would be the FAA - Federal Airline Agency):
Link: http://easa.europa.eu/communications/press-releases/PRen23062010.html
No, I do not work for Boeing, I am just TIRED of MSNBC getting the news wrong on a daily basis. The other sadly missing piece to this story is the passengers, according to the BBC ( first link above), the plane was carrying:
My condolences to many families in many countries - shame on MSNBC for not actually reporting the news, only their headlines seems to be correct these days.
I like turtles
Sorry, my first sentence about this airplane should have read "Boeing and Finmeccanica did not make this plane but that would
notmake sense given the last part of the article which states that this new plane & engine were to break up the dominance of Boeing and Airbus, the engines for this fatal flight were made by the French companySnegmaSnecma (part of Safran).According to the European Aviation Safety Agency - the companies mentioned by mimi jacques did not work on this aircraft, although Snecma does work with those companies on other aircraft engines, etc.
With no disrespect to mimi jacques - the wikipedia entry on this aircraft is wrong, aviation buffs may find the plane's specifications here:
http://sukhoi.org/eng/planes/projects/ssj100/
While they did copy some aspects that occur on Boeing planes, etc - Boeing is not a partner and Finmeccanica made a new company to partner with Sukhoi (Superjet), so it is not directly related.
Alex, if you don't like this country, Leave. Trust me, we won't miss you.
I have a friend who was in his office on 9/11 and he saw the plane as it hit the Pentagon. Get off your conspriacy rant.
I feel so badly about this tragedy. I feel for the lost, as well as their family and friends.
Myself, I won't feel safe flying till the plane is made out of the same material as that "Black Box" which always seem to survive intact.
1
Descend to 6,000 feet Over 7,200 Feet Worth of Mountains. Disappear From Radar.
I think its safe to say Sukhoi was unsuccessful in securing any orders for the "superjet"
Sergei, why no orders for new plane?
I'm just curious as to why Air Traffic Control let them drop from 10,000 feet to 6,000 feet in a mountainess area. Shouldn't have the Control Tower know how high some the mountains were. The crash is at 5,500 feet; only 500 feet below what permission pilots were given. Anyone can see that there are much higher mountains than where the plane crashed.
I've flown many commercial flights, and I am still scared everytime we take off and the entire trip until we land. I've had some "nightmare" flights in major storms; like riding a roller coaster for hours except you're in the air--not my kind of fun when the flight attendants have to park the beverage cart and get buckled in. Hated it! Two back-to-back flights like that; they were 2 hours long each.
How awful for everyone on board. I still don't understand why, though, they gave them permission to dip down so low in such terrain with a huge aircraft. :(
At this point we don't know if this was pilot error or some failure of the aircraft's systems. Hopefully they can find the flight recorders and determine the cause of the disaster. This is surely a dark day for Sukhoi and the families who lost loved ones.
The pilot requested that he descend to 6000 feet. He was granted that permission. Unfortunately the mountain ahead of him was taller than 6000 feet. Obviously the pilot and whomever was in the control tower didn't do too well in math. It's a damn shame that the passengers had to pay for their ignorance.
Sure, but we don't know why he requested that change. Was he hot-dogging to show off the new Sukhoi in the mountains passes? Did a suicidal maniac have a gun to his head? Were the altimeters or ground proximity warning systems inoperative or defective? Did he simply lose situational awareness and think he had cleared the mountains? We just don't know yet.
Given that this was a "demonstration" flight - my guess (yes, guess), is that the plane may have been on a particular autopilot setting...according to Sukhoi, the plane could (in theory) correct pilot errors:
This could have been a case of "showing off," that went terribly wrong or a computer error which the pilot could not override for some reason.
Link: http://sukhoi.org/eng/planes/projects/ssj100/
Other sites have said that the pilot was familiar with the terrain and area in which he was flying. However, if ground control was flying the aircraft (all US made planes except Lufthansa, have that function), and not properly trained (as this plane has never carried passengers & has newly designed engines), one could imagine possible failure between GC and the plane's computer systems.
What went wrong (11 planes are made in this configuration) must be determined by experts - the tragedy is that the plane was half full of people who were celebrating what they thought would be a success. Again, condolences to the families who lost a loved one.
Tragic accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.
RIP,,Sorry for them, and there's,
Maybe they did do it,,U know what I mean, 9-11
Ever heard of the Sukhoi T-50? Also called the PAK FA? It's their version of the F-22. Don't underestimate Russians. We aren't the only ones with Scientists. Just because one plane goes down doesn't mean they all are that way. This entire problem could just be an Navigational error too. But we will have to see if there is going to be a follow up story on this.
You are correct Mobius - and Russia does rank higher that US students in both math and science. Has everyone forgot the crash in Sioux City, IA? My math teacher and his whole family were on that plane. There was also the plane with the US exchange students that landed in the ocean shortly after take-off. Every country has tragic aviation disasters.
yea i dont trust anything that is russian made. Then again i would not feel safe on an aircraft unless raytheon built it.
Oh really? So, tell us, what commercial aircraft does Raytheon build?
Poor Russians, it's cute they're still pretending they can build stuff and keep up with us and all.
It was developed in partnership with America's Boeing and Italy's Finmeccanica.
gridlock - TY for making the point. The Russians have been building fine a/c for years and I suspect this is going to be a good one because of the collaboration with Boeing. Since the terrain is mountainous, I don't understand why they were allowed to descend to 6,000 ft. It sounds like errors in several aspects.
As for Fuque's comment - better do some research and get up-to-date in the 21st century.
Elk: designed by Boeing built in Russia
Bob in LG - Yeah, the picture looks a lot like a NewGen 737, eh?
Anything has to be better than those TU-154's. Flew on an Aeroflot one from Moscow to St Pete a few years ago and the exit row door was welded closed. You could see it as we came up the stairs into the plane.
We depend on them now for a ride into space,
Fuque Hugh: Your screen name indicates that you're either an early teen or an adult suffering from arrested development. Most people quit laughing at that kind of crap at about sixteen years of age.
And the Most Ignorant Statement of the Thread award goes to...
"It was developed in partnership with America's Boeing and Italy's Finmeccanica."
Italy, socialist, Russia, communist, America trying to be both, Boeing, run by communist workers...what a wonderful aircraft.
elk_bull, we don't know that they were "cleared" to descend - all we know is that radar showed that the plane descended to 6000 from 10000 feet. There could be any number of reasons why this happened. Until the black boxes are retrieved and flight data examined, we won't know much else.
Fuque, in 1991 a United 737 crashed due to a design flaw that caused an uncommanded rudder hard over.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18qX8uiedXc
Another, brand new Boeing 737 crashed due partly to an engine failure resulting from a design fault. See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmT6S2y_Zos
My point here is not to fault Boeing, any engine manufacturer or anything like that; it is simply to point out that the U.S. aircraft manufacturers do not build perfect aircraft. Boeing has built many fine planes, despite it's "communist" workforce as alluded to by Don. Similarly, other countries, including Russia also built very good aircraft. I wouldn't be so quick to judge the Superjet until the investigation is conducted. At this point we no nothing other than the airplane crashed into a mountain.
Don
Get your tinfoil hat and find a place to sit quietly and think about reality.
Is there a cargo door open on the left, under belly, mid-section of the plane in the picture?
gumps - the original article I read, before they found the wreckage, stated that the pilot had requested clearance to descend to 6,000 feet, which was granted. It was noted that he did so and that radar & radio contact was lost shortly after that. I find it curious that part of the story has been deleted...and that he was given clearance to descend to an altitude lower than some of the terrain.
Diane - that's where the wheels are stored.
Don38* - as a retired Boeing employee I take great offense at your characterization of Boeing employees as communists. What the hell are you?
@gridlock (you are misinformed) ....
No, not really: Scroll down to "Consultants" - THAT is where you will find Boeing, which I doubt will help in "marketing" this plane ..... and Finmeccanica made a separate company to partner with Sukhoi, that company is called "Superjet" - it's on it's own now.
Link: http://sukhoi.org/eng/planes/projects/ssj100/
Grumps & Don:
What is your deal with Boeing? Why can't you read the FACTS about this aircraft and see that Boeing was a "CONSULTANT" for things like marketing.....Boeing sells planes around the world, it knows something about marketing. If you fly, you are usually in a Boeing made aircraft, sometimes an Airbus - they own the skies. If this is engine failure - that is not necessarily Boeing's fault - they don't make engines.....they make the body of the aircraft, they don't make the seats, they install them.... so Boeing is NO WAY responsible for this tragedy...stop reading Wiki and go to the source, in this case Sukhoi (Superjet)!
Black Kettle, you must have reading comprehension issues. Try reading my post again. I did not say that Boeing was responsible for this incident.
Grumps - I am sorry, I did read your post incorrectly but you did't have insult me, people make mistakes.
I find it unfortunate that 99% of people read the article incorrectly and no on is jumping on them - Boeing was a marketing consultant, not the manufacturer. I gave the facts but, I quickly read someone who put the two of you together and I thought it an insult to the man who worked for Boeing for 38 years.
The fault is mine, I read too quickly.
ok, important safety tip: avoid russian planes, korean rockets, and cruise ships.
You forgot one -------Aruba.
You're still butthurt over Aruba? Get over it. There are bad people everywhere, nut just Aruba.
I'll take four!!
Put a hold on that order for 170 of these "planes", please.
It is important for Russia to have an independent commission of investigators from outside with all available data to evaluate why so many air disasters happening with Russian airlines. They have worst record than Ethopian air lines. When ever there is an air disaster it is usually a Russian airline or plane made in Russia. They are effecting the overall air safety data.
noni - that's true, but all those planes were built in the Soviet era and the air frames are old and probably quite work-hardened. I'm betting Boeing assists with their investigators, too on this one.
Hey Putin's back in office so the Soviet era has returned
TigerBoy - better hit the books - you obviously don't know what "Soviet" means.
@elk_bull-1614183:
Voldemor Voldemorovitch Putin is dreaming of getting back to Soviet times.
Putin was just doing a little post election tidying up.
Let's hope they'll be more professional and forthcoming than they were after the Smolensk crash; they wouldn't even allow anyone else to access the black boxes or the plane ruins.
Russian airlines ,especially their "regional" ones,are not to be trusted.this has happened before and will again.Even the Chinese have a better record I think.
Really--Even the Chinese would laugh at that statement
Make note to self when traveling; verify that airline about to board is not Russian.
wolsen - I have personal knowledge of Russia's largest airline fleet (AeroFlot) and they are flying up-to-date Boeing and AirBus a/c - Air France does much of their line maintenance at the Nice MRO. Check your facts before damning an entire country's airlines, eh?
Elk: you are doing an exemplary job as the paid spokesperson for the Russion "airline industry".
Bob in LG - actually I'm an independent interiors reconfig engineer - 767 specialty. I have done work for AeroFlot and Trans Aero. They are modern, well run airlines complying with both FAA and EASA regulations. It is unfortunate that they, and other Russian airlines, are still operating the old Soviet era a/c - I suspect every one of them is well past its life expectancy.
Aeroflot is a partner with Delta Airlines. Aeroflot has flights to JKF and from every day with zero problems. I fly Aeroflot often in the CIS and China.
praying for the families
Also if you look at the picture on take off one of the Cargo doors is open
Carla Menzel Kloet,
The main landing gear rotates inboard, during normal flight, on this aircraft.
Well Elk and homer, I hope your life insurance is paid in full.
Bob
No he isn;t, but at least I'm not and what he said was reasonable. What you say is not. Aeroflot was the world's largest airline for a long time providing good service affordably (but since it was communist nobody admitted what it really cost). The Russian airframes were good, their engines so-so. Aeroflot now has mostly western equipment becasue the soviet era equipment is not economically viable.
Your bigoted attitude serves no good purpose.
Have a tea.
Karla - what AC is trying to say is the "door" you see open will close to cover the landing gear stow area after the gear is raised.
I've flown on Russian (Soviet era) built helicopters and planes. I always was grateful to land in a controlled fashion. From the report it sounds like some kind of mechanical failure, not uncommon in new aircraft. I once flew over the same mountain range in a Spanish designed, Indonesian built commuter aircraft, it was a nightmare.
Was it a CASA based N250?
I flew on Tu-154 quite a few times, and the landing was always pretty smooth. I flew on Il-96 one time, and the landing was super-smooth. I flew MD-10 a few times, and it always landed like it was simply dropped on the runway. MD-10 was crap.
MD-10 is a Boeing plane only because Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas. I agree it is not a very good plane.
Oh..............there it is.............GROUNDSKY NAILSKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Article says the first flight was carried out in normal mode. This 2nd flight was part of a demonstration flight. I wonder what they were demonstrating?
maybe they were checking the frontal airbag test?
Guess they will up the 5 MPH bumper system.
We should send one to president putin. Now there's a tax dollar spent I could get behind.
dave-4342450:
What do you have against the President of the Russian Federation?
Maybe replace AF-1
Don
You disgust me. You are a traitor.
With deepest regret and sadden hearts my family and I are praying for all involved in this tragic event. May God bring you comfort for your loss.
Condolences to all who have been personally affected by this crash and the loss of loved ones or friends.
You are a bunch of insensitive cads. Go watch another hollywood crappy movie and get you blood thirsty fill. This obviously excludes those leaving condolences here. This could have been mechanical, human or software error. One airliner that went into a mountain was because the pilot initiated software to bring the plane into the airport for landing coming over some mountains. The plane had already passed the first tower in the flight path so because of the software design the plane circled around to pass that first tower causing it to slam against a mountain. The designers of the soft ware had not anticipated the landing software would be initiated after passing the first tower. These kinds of flaws happen. It will be interesting to see why this one happened.
I missed the condolence portion of your message, only saw your chastisement. Seems somewhat "caddy" of you.
Something about this makes me feel that this was an assassination.
Slugbait:
Russia does not work that way. Go see another Hollywood movie...
@Slugbait...I wouldn't be too concerned, probably just your paranoia peeking out again.
Right, but, at least it's nice to know that wreckage sites have debris again...or is it that the soviets don't have that new vaporizing on impact metal in their aircraft? 9-11
DON===
Don't be stupid. all metal vaporizes at a high enough temp. A high rate of speed undeniably played a role in the Pentagon, if that's what you are implying. The plane in Pennsylvania was shot down as an attempt to save lives. This plane just came down. That some times happens too.
A lot of experience lost. Condolences to all who have been personally affected by this crash and the loss of loved ones or friends.
Ground avoidance radar does not work very well when approaching cliffs and typical jet engines take 8+sec to respond to throttle input changes. Unless you are a Pegaus engine by RR, which is 3 sec...
Authorized to descent to 6,000' and impacts a 5,500' cliff. Sounds like a altimeter problem, maybe not adjusted for current baro pressure or large deviation from intended flight path...
I'm assuming that the Pilot forgot the old adage about, 'Add 1,000' altitude to the highest obstruction/peak in the flight area.'
But what the Heck, I was taught to fly in the mountains, where the mountains/valleys elevation increased faster that a Cessna could gain altitude...
Modern airplanes don't just "fall from the sky". I agree with you AC Robertson. Wrong altimeter setting is one possibility. Could have been wrong settings in the flight computer. There wasn't any mention on the weather in the article. Flying in crappy weather around mountains is no fun. Seeing a friggin mountain coming at you out of the fog is the worst. People said they heard the engines "roaring". Maybe that is what happened. He tried to throttle up and climb, but it was too late. Hopefully the FDR's & CVR's will reveal what happened. It's sad. My condolences to the families.
There is no such thing as anything called ground avoidance radar. There is a system called EGPWS Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System. It is a computer based system that utilizes a combination of GPS/terrain data base and radio altimetry that computes a predicted track/ground avoidance profile. This should have given at minimum a 60 sec warning of approaching terrain. All turbojet powered ICAO certified aircraft are required to have this system for passenger or cargo carrying activities.
If they were "buzzing" the mountain is it possible that a strange "up draft" may have occurred causing loss of lift?
It could also be a high altitude stall similar to what happened to Air France AF 447.
The speed of the airplane could be all wrong.
JpinMN, an "up draft" does not cause "loss of lift". Vikramjit, stalls can be caused at any altitude and at any speed. Instead of speculating with absolutely no information, why not let the investigators determine the probable cause?
I think it's a stall. Its gone down vertically..rather than brush or clip the mountain sid... if you look at the accident site...looks like it's gone down at a sharp angle.
The current reports indicate the plane was almost a mile off their expected flight path...
BTY - An up-draft would INCREASE an aircraft's altitude, not cause it to lose altitude...
We use to use these up-drafts caused by mountain ridges to reduce our forward ground speed. In the right conditions you could be going backwards on the ground, while still indicating 80+knots of air speed...
Ed Mallory,
When I was flying, Civil & military, our aircraft did not have the NEW GPS computers, etc that fly the MODERN aircraft of today. We were expected to look out the window and read sectionals, the newest piece of equipment was usually the radar altimeter. In 1990 we were installing LORAN on the CH-46's to use in Saudi...
GPS and computer aids are the new Pilots tool...
Vikramjit, when you hit a mountain I can guarantee that you're going to go down it at a sharp angle. Gee, and I thought you Indians were highly educated.
Hey I am not a pilot but I can think ok ?
Yes we Indians are highly educated and many speak english too :)
I have no problem with you thinking. But it's annoying for people like you to offer theories on the probable cause of accidents without having any basis. Assuming, for example, that the plane hit in a nose down attitude because the debris path goes down the mountain slope is hardly compelling evidence.
And for those who assume that the cause was a controlled flight into terrain, again, you don't know what happened. All we know is that the plane hit the mountain. Was it a controlled flight? We don't know. Was it pilot error? We don't know. All you armchair crash investigators would do well to let the experts investigate what happened. It is quite likely that this will take a long time.
On further analysis I think that either he has clipped the mountain side or crashed trying to pull up at the last minute and the debris have fallen almost vertically down.
Why these airline companies continually fly near mountainous-low visibility areas? Isn't there a safer alternate route or can they at least do some research to find these possible routes, if these do exist?
Talk about sudden impact! I don't get the 6000' altitude either considering the terrain. what a shame.
Sidearm controls, eh? Who designed these pilot controls?
Um, I wonder ... ?
Orders are down.